0:00

Walmart Plus members save on meeting up with

0:02

friends. Save on having them over

0:04

for dinner with free delivery with no hidden

0:07

fees or markups. That's groceries plus napkins plus

0:09

that vegetable chopper to make things a bit

0:11

easier. Plus, members save on gas to go

0:13

meet them in their neck of the woods.

0:15

Plus, when you're ready for the ultimate sign

0:18

of friendship, start a show together with your

0:20

included Paramount Plus subscription. Walmart Plus members save

0:22

on this plus so much more. Start a

0:24

30-day free trial at walmartplus.com. Paramount

0:26

Plus is central plan only. Separate registration required. See

0:29

Walmart Plus terms and conditions. Time

0:31

for a quick break to talk about McDonald's. Wake

0:34

up and bagelize. Get your

0:36

taste buds ready for McDonald's breakfast bagel

0:38

sandwiches. Now just $3 only on the

0:40

app. Choose from a delicious steak,

0:42

egg, and cheese bagel, bacon, egg, and cheese

0:44

bagel, or sausage, egg, and cheese bagel. Just

0:46

$3 when you order ahead on the app.

0:48

Hurry and seize this breakfast steal before it's

0:51

gone. Offer valid one time daily

0:53

March 11th through April 7th, 2024 at participating

0:55

McDonald's. Must opt into rewards. Out into awards.

0:58

Luxury is mine. Crime Enthusiasm It's Rob each

1:00

other and l en marche you are

1:02

invited to join us on Robbie and

1:04

Ellen Solved the Case A True Crime

1:06

Talk and grab a front row seat

1:09

as he along with our special celebrity

1:11

guest dissect our favorite true crime cases

1:13

every other Thursday and between those episodes

1:15

join us as we talk about current

1:17

true crime headlines in our about Damn

1:19

Crimes Here is it the ordinary and

1:21

dive into extraordinary investigations and conversations with

1:24

Subscribe now on your favorite podcast platform

1:26

and let's unravel these captivating stories together.

2:03

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 356

2:05

of the True Crime All the Time

2:08

Unsolved Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with

2:10

me as always is my partner in

2:12

true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are

2:14

you? Hey, I'm doing good. How about

2:16

yourself? I'm doing very well. That's good.

2:19

I talked about it on TCAB, but it's

2:21

one of my favorite times of the year.

2:23

March Madness, the NCAA basketball tournament. I

2:26

love everything about it. I love the

2:28

fact that there's like six games going

2:30

on at the same time on six

2:32

different channels. I love the fact that

2:34

a no-name school

2:36

can be one of the

2:38

best teams in the country on any

2:41

given day. Plus, you do all that

2:43

bookie stuff. Yeah, but let's not talk about it.

2:46

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout-outs.

2:48

Jordan Simpson jumped out at our highest level.

2:50

What's up Jordan? Sarah Lindwall.

2:53

Hey, Sarah. Peggy Reinersson. Well,

2:56

thank you Reinersson. Emily Hartley. Hey,

2:58

Hartley. Lolly. What's going

3:00

on, Lolly? Mark Fredrickson. Hey, there's Mark. Amanda

3:03

Nobles. Amanda, that's awesome. Gabrielle

3:05

St. Onge. Gabrielle. Yeah.

3:08

Beth Altman jumped down to our highest level. Oh,

3:11

thank you, Beth. Christina

3:13

Gerasimchak or Gerasimchak.

3:15

I'm just going to say

3:17

Christina. That's easier. Then

3:20

last but not least, Casey Hostert. Hey,

3:22

thanks Casey. So we appreciate that new

3:24

support. And then if we go back

3:26

into the vault, this

3:29

week we selected Jennifer Anis. Well,

3:31

Anis, you're the best. Yeah. Yeah,

3:34

absolutely. Because we have an episode

3:36

out right now on TCAT. It's

3:38

part one of two on Danny

3:41

and Larry Raines. And

3:43

these are two brothers who were

3:46

both serial killers. But

3:48

if that's not enough, they

3:50

operated independently of each

3:52

other. And it's thought that this is

3:55

the only known instance In

3:57

US history where one family

3:59

produced. Two serial killers,

4:02

Who. Didn't operate together. To.

4:04

Like there needs to be a study of the. Dna.

4:07

The brain. Well. I'm we

4:09

talk about it all. the childhood

4:11

you know what did was. Fight.

4:13

Is fastening. There's no doubt about

4:16

that. I bury. Are you a

4:18

to get into this episode? Two Crime all

4:20

the time on so I am ready. Were

4:22

talking about. The. Murder of

4:24

Christine Coal. Christine.

4:26

Coal left home to go to the

4:29

store on January Six. Nineteen Eighty Eight.

4:31

And never return. Her. Body was

4:33

later found on a beach in Warwick

4:35

Road. I am. A. Man was

4:37

arrested and charged with the murder. Thirty

4:40

one years later, But. The charge

4:42

was dropped due to lack of

4:44

evidence. So. Christine's murder

4:46

remains unsolved. Are going back

4:48

a few years on the murder. Nineteen

4:51

Eighty Eight. And then as

4:53

we often see. It. May take

4:55

a long time. But. You

4:58

know something gains traction. In

5:00

terms of a suspect,

5:03

But. You. The authorities

5:05

are not always successful. At

5:08

getting her as charged to sit.

5:10

Christine. And cole. Was. Born

5:12

on January Fourth, Nineteen Seventy

5:14

Eight. She lived in

5:16

Pawtucket, Rhode Island. With. Her mother

5:19

Margaret. Her. Mother's boyfriend

5:21

Oscar Waldron. And

5:23

her siblings. The. Boston Globe

5:25

reported that Christine had two

5:28

stepsisters. Another article by

5:30

The Globe reported that Margaret

5:32

had three sons with her

5:34

boyfriend. They. Were named Oscar

5:36

Clan insane. Christine's. Father

5:38

was not in her life. She

5:41

hadn't seen him for several years

5:43

before she disappeared according to the

5:45

police. Sources: Don't reveal

5:48

much about Christine's home

5:50

life. Margaret. Was twenty seven

5:52

years old. When. Christine disappeared

5:54

meaning that she was

5:56

around seventy. When. christine was

5:59

born sources did not

6:01

report that christine was abused but

6:03

it did seem like she was

6:06

unhappy at home. We just

6:08

don't know what the reasons for

6:10

that work in an interview

6:12

with the press. Margaret said

6:14

she had been supporting her family with

6:17

six hundred dollars a month in welfare

6:19

since her partner became disabled due

6:22

to gout and had to stop

6:24

working. That's not a lot of money

6:26

to support a family that size. No

6:29

not at all have you ever had gal. I

6:32

know had a friend that had it and

6:35

it would keep him from working i mean

6:37

he'd be laid up for a while it's it's

6:39

pretty nasty i had it at one

6:41

point i take a pill every day just to make

6:43

sure it doesn't come back wow. Yeah

6:46

that only happened like in the feet ankle yeah i

6:48

had it i had it my feet i don't know

6:50

where else it can happen yeah. She

6:52

also said that christine was well liked

6:55

by your peers and seemed happy in

6:57

school neighborhood business owners

6:59

reported seeing christine walking

7:02

around town by herself. Even

7:04

at night margaret said she was

7:06

protected of her daughter but she thought it

7:08

was safe for her to run errands on

7:11

her own. She acknowledge that christine

7:13

had run away before but noted that

7:15

it was only for a few hours

7:17

at a time. Margaret sad

7:19

in an interview she always came

7:22

home. Yeah i don't know about the

7:25

age that it's okay for a young

7:27

child ten years old to be

7:30

out and about wondering at

7:32

nighttime daytime to buy themselves

7:35

i know a lot of kids do that

7:37

i just don't know what that in today's

7:40

world with that safe ages back

7:42

then. Why don't know

7:44

if there is a quote unquote

7:47

safe age because something

7:49

can happen to pretty much

7:51

anybody. Yeah at any

7:54

age now i think you

7:56

and i can go based off our

7:58

experience and we have. We've talked

8:00

about it on previous podcasts. Would

8:03

we let our children do this at age

8:05

X? And

8:08

sometimes we say yes, and sometimes we say no.

8:11

A lot of these things, you know, parents have

8:13

to decide on their own. And

8:16

then there are some things that I think

8:19

if you polled the majority of people, they

8:21

would say, no. I

8:24

wouldn't let my 10-year-old

8:26

daughter do this by

8:29

herself. Yeah. They might say, yeah,

8:31

I'm okay with her during the day doing this and that.

8:33

But not at night. At night, I would say, nope,

8:35

get on home. Yeah, it's going to vary. The

8:38

last known incident of Christine running

8:40

away occurred in 1985. She

8:44

ran away from home and was found

8:46

in a nearby dumpster. Marie

8:49

Mayer, owner of a general store on

8:51

Main Street, said she warned

8:53

Christine's mother to keep her home at

8:56

night. Mayer told the Boston

8:58

Globe Christine would always come

9:00

in. No matter how cold, no matter

9:02

if it was pouring rain out, at

9:05

night, sometimes we'd ask someone in the

9:07

store to take a minute and walk

9:09

her home. Mayer noted

9:11

that Christine once came into the store

9:13

with her mother and denied knowing her

9:15

when she came in the following day.

9:19

Still strange? Yeah, it's

9:21

strange, but I think

9:23

it's also painting a picture that

9:26

it seems she did this quite often.

9:30

It also maybe is

9:32

pointing back to this

9:35

thought that she wasn't

9:37

real happy at home and

9:39

maybe was needing to get

9:42

out of the house to escape something.

9:46

And obviously, been doing this for a while because in 1985 when

9:48

she was seven, they found her

9:51

hiding in the dumpster. Mayer

9:53

Said she once called the authorities

9:55

after she saw Christine picking through

9:57

the trash behind the store. The

10:00

whole turn. Ten years old On

10:02

January Fourth. Nineteen Eighty Eight. Wednesday.

10:05

January Six. Was. A

10:08

normal day for Christine. In

10:10

the late afternoon her mother sent around

10:12

to get milk and points. At

10:14

this time of year in Rhode Island,

10:16

the temperatures drop below freezing. And.

10:19

The sunsets pretty early, meaning

10:21

Christine was walking in the

10:23

dark by herself. You. Don't

10:25

like walk in the dark by yourself. I

10:28

don't like walking all that much.

10:31

Day. Or night. But yeah, I don't

10:33

like to walk in the dark by

10:35

myself. So Milken point. I'm

10:38

thinking maybe there was some clam chowder? Going.

10:40

To be made. I don't know. We're in Rhode Island.

10:43

Pretty. Easy to get clams I guess. Mama

10:45

a fan. some they can. you don't like

10:48

seafood? I love clam chowder. I would even

10:50

go to the store for. Where.

10:52

You would. Margaret reporting Christine

10:54

missing it a forty four

10:56

pm. She. Had been gone

10:58

for over four hour at this

11:01

point. So. Let's.

11:03

Dissect that. A little bit.

11:06

We. Just got done talking about. Your.

11:08

What would we do? What would

11:10

most people do with they let

11:12

their ten year old daughter in

11:15

a walk. To the store

11:17

at night. some people would. Some people

11:19

would. But. How far ways

11:21

the store? In Are you gonna

11:23

wait for our. For. The

11:25

panic to set in. And.

11:28

I don't think most people would. Think

11:30

most people whatever set time in

11:32

their headlights. Here's the money go

11:35

down. I know it's a half an

11:37

hour away. Still get down

11:39

or get back and. Get.

11:41

The shopping done and no more

11:43

than. Eighty minutes. Or.

11:46

Whatever that time. Yes, yeah. It's

11:49

not for our know. I

11:51

would think you start panicking. By.

11:53

Two hours. Is not before. Yeah.

11:56

Margaret. told the police that's see

11:58

send christine out around around 4pm.

12:01

With $10 worth of

12:03

food stamps, Christine lived about

12:05

10 blocks from the market. Investigators

12:09

traced Christine's final movement. Store

12:11

clerks confirmed that Christine went

12:13

to a seafood market and

12:15

purchased clams, then went

12:18

to another store where she bought milk

12:20

and gumballs. The clerk at

12:22

the seafood store described Christine as

12:25

visibly upset and cold and

12:28

afraid, per the Boston Globe.

12:31

Well it was cold out that day so I'm sure she

12:33

was just cold from that and then I don't

12:35

know maybe she was afraid because it

12:38

was dark out, maybe just

12:40

didn't want to be in the market at that

12:43

time of night, who knows. Yeah I

12:45

think the main thing is we don't know why

12:48

she was visibly upset.

12:50

But according to Lieutenant Norman Moreau

12:53

from the Pawtucket Police, he

12:55

said she gave the impression that she

12:58

was afraid to go home for

13:00

some reason. Now I want

13:02

to go back to this market 10

13:05

blocks away. That seems like a

13:08

pretty long way to go

13:11

in the dark for a 10 year old. I'm

13:14

just going to throw that out there. Yeah, I mean

13:16

you got to go all the way there

13:18

and then work your way back. At

13:21

5pm, Christine left the seafood store

13:23

and went to a friend's house a block

13:25

away from her home. She stayed

13:28

until 6.30pm and then

13:30

went to the market. She told her

13:32

friend's mother though that she was going home,

13:34

but when she left she walked the

13:37

opposite direction from her home. The

13:39

owner of the market reported that Christine entered

13:41

the store at 7pm and purchased

13:44

10 gumballs and a quart of

13:46

milk. She left at

13:49

7.15pm. This was the last known

13:51

sighting of Christine. However, there

13:53

was an unconfirmed sighting later

13:55

that night. So we

13:57

are starting to get some information about

14:01

some of this time. Yeah.

14:04

And how much of it

14:06

has to do with whether or not she's

14:10

afraid to go home. And if

14:12

so, why is she afraid to go

14:14

home? She goes to the market,

14:18

then she goes to a friend's house, hangs out

14:20

there, tells the mom she's

14:22

going home, but she doesn't, she goes to

14:24

the store. It does lend

14:26

some credence to the idea that for

14:30

whatever reason, she just didn't want

14:32

to go back home. She was in no

14:34

hurry to get back home. The

14:36

manager of Star Market on Barton

14:38

Street reported that two girls came

14:41

into the store and were

14:43

escorted out at 10 p.m. because

14:45

they were acting up. The

14:48

manager tentatively ID'd one girl

14:50

as Christine Cole after

14:53

viewing a photo of her. Lieutenant

14:55

Norman Moreau said the police

14:57

were not treating Christine's disappearance

15:00

as an abduction because she

15:02

had run away from home three times

15:04

before. He was later quoted by

15:06

the Boston Globe as saying she was

15:09

known to be out alone a lot.

15:11

A loner. Is that a good thing for

15:14

somebody that is 10 years old to

15:17

have that reputation? To be out

15:19

a lot on their own? Yeah. No,

15:22

I don't think it is. But again,

15:24

I'm going back to this thought.

15:28

That she did not want to be at home, she was afraid

15:31

of something. I mean, there's a boy

15:33

in my neighborhood, nine years old, I think.

15:36

He's out all the time. I

15:38

see him with a cell phone, so I think that's good. But

15:42

I just wonder, does his parents wonder

15:44

where he's at? Because I see him

15:47

everywhere but with an adult.

15:49

Maybe they have an app where they're

15:51

tracking him. Maybe. I don't know.

15:54

The bigger question is, do they know

15:56

that you live in the neighborhood? And

15:59

for some reason, are watching this kid.

16:02

Uh, I would say the answer is probably no. Detectives

16:05

searched the entire state for

16:07

Christine. They were worried about

16:09

her because of the cold weather. The

16:11

Boston Globe reported that Christine's mother

16:14

and three others took lie detector

16:16

tests, but the results were

16:18

not reported. Papers from the

16:20

time also noted that Christine was

16:22

the third child to disappear

16:25

in Rhode Island in recent months.

16:28

And we're going to talk about those disappearances

16:30

but before we do, you know, I

16:32

want to go back to it being January

16:34

in Rhode Island. We don't

16:37

know exactly how

16:39

Christine was dressed, but no

16:41

matter how it was, you're

16:44

going to be cold. I would think so.

16:46

I mean, it's Rhode Island, wintertime. I'm

16:49

just getting chills thinking about it right now.

16:52

So six-year-old Jason Wolf and

16:54

10-year-old Frankie Barnes were murdered

16:56

in December 1987. A

16:59

man named William Sarmento was arrested

17:02

on December 29th in

17:04

charge with two murders. So

17:06

he couldn't be considered a

17:09

potential suspect. He wasn't

17:11

out at the time that Christine

17:13

went missing. One piece

17:15

of evidence was discovered on January 7th,

17:18

a mitten given to Christine by

17:21

the owner of Saints Market, where

17:23

she was last seen, was found

17:25

in the snow in front of the

17:27

store's garage. Well, maybe on her

17:29

way home walking, it fell

17:31

out of her pocket or it could

17:34

have been something else. Market

17:36

owner Nellie Sarava gave

17:38

Christine one mitten that had been

17:40

forgotten by a customer. She

17:43

said she gave it to Christine because

17:45

she seemed cold and that was

17:47

all she had to give her. So

17:49

now we find out that she

17:51

wasn't wearing anything on her hands

17:54

to the point where This

17:56

market owner noticed it and thought,

17:58

this little girl. Need

18:00

something? Yeah, But unfortunately

18:02

all they had. Was.

18:04

One min, but that was better than

18:07

nothing. Don't a meme a

18:09

heart feels for you know? Cold.

18:12

Though. Mittens. Doesn't. Want go

18:14

home? For some reason? Speaking. To

18:16

the Boston Globe Suraev A Described

18:18

Christine is a sad girl. She.

18:20

Said she never looked happy,

18:23

never smiled, And she

18:25

never saw her with other children.

18:27

Suraev. A sad she stands there

18:30

I say would you want honey she

18:32

says i don't know. I. See

18:34

the upset and her face

18:36

and was heartbreaking was painting

18:38

such a bleak picture. right?

18:41

Everyone who encountered this

18:43

girl then night. She's.

18:45

Cole. Or. She's cold because

18:47

she doesn't have. The. Proper.

18:50

Attire? Yeah. To. Be

18:52

walking out. In. That type

18:54

of whether she's visibly upset, acts

18:57

like she doesn't want to go

18:59

home. Were. Still have to figure

19:01

that part out. On January Ten,

19:03

the police announced that Christine was

19:06

believed to be death from exposure

19:08

to the call. Detective.

19:10

Lieutenant Norman Moreau announce pro

19:12

the Boston Globe's we believe

19:14

she crawled into an abandoned

19:17

car said garage or dumpster

19:19

Wednesday night. Fell. Asleep and

19:21

died before more. We. Don't

19:24

suspect foul play. I'm

19:26

just wondering how they came to that.

19:28

Conclusion. Know what?

19:30

Were they basing it off of the fact

19:33

that. Some. People had seen

19:35

her that night. She didn't come home

19:37

but no one had sound area and

19:39

she was known to run away before

19:41

and she had run away. But.

19:44

Three times right of was reported.

19:46

But. Isn't the other question that. Needs.

19:48

To be ask is. Why? She running

19:51

away, His big question? What does she

19:53

want to go back home? But. also

19:55

seems pretty soon to me

19:57

to be eliminating foul play

19:59

from the equation. It

20:01

was reported that the temperature

20:03

was below zero with moderate

20:05

wind. The police continued their

20:08

search, but now they were looking

20:10

for Christine's body. They checked

20:12

houses, sheds, garages,

20:14

dumpsters, abandoned cars,

20:16

and any other places. They thought

20:18

Christine would shelter from the cold.

20:21

Two search dogs attempted to track

20:23

her, but found no new scent

20:25

tricks. So, you know, you

20:28

find out that it was below

20:30

zero with some winds, which

20:32

would have made it feel even colder.

20:36

Right. Now, is

20:38

it even less likely that

20:40

you're sending your ten-year-old daughter

20:43

ten blocks away

20:45

to the store with nothing

20:48

on her hand? No way. I

20:50

just don't think that there's

20:52

very many people that are gonna

20:55

say, yes, that is something

20:57

I would do. Again, I'm, you

20:59

know, I don't want to put all the blame

21:01

on the mother here. No,

21:03

no, I get it. But it's

21:06

something we have to talk about. Something

21:08

doesn't seem right here to

21:11

me. I understand that some parents

21:13

are a little more trusting

21:15

or they give their kids more leeway.

21:17

I understand that. That's a

21:19

parent's decision to make. But when

21:22

it's zero or below

21:24

zero with the wind chill, there's

21:27

a certain level of clothing that needs

21:29

to be worn. And that makes

21:31

it even more important when she doesn't

21:33

show up after an hour, two hours.

21:37

It should be clicking in your head like, we

21:39

got a problem. That's absolutely a great point.

21:42

Does it change your

21:44

opinion on waiting

21:46

the four hours to report

21:48

her missing, knowing

21:50

now that the temperature was

21:53

zero or maybe even below with

21:55

the wind chill? That's

22:00

the sound of another sale on

22:02

your online Shopify store, but did

22:04

you know Shopify powers selling in

22:06

person too? That's right, Shopify is

22:09

the sound of selling everywhere, online,

22:11

in store, on social media and

22:13

beyond. Shopify

22:16

POS is your command center for

22:18

your retail store. From accepting payments

22:20

to managing inventory, Shopify has everything

22:22

you need to sell in person.

22:25

Shopify, you get a powerhouse selling

22:27

partner that effortlessly unites your in

22:29

person and online sales into one

22:31

source of truth. Track every sale

22:34

across your business in one place

22:36

and know exactly what's in stock.

22:38

Connect with customers in line and

22:40

online. Shopify helps you drive store

22:42

traffic with plug and play tools

22:44

built from marketing campaigns from TikTok

22:46

to Instagram and beyond. Get hardware

22:48

that fits your business. Take payments

22:51

by smartphone, transform your tablet into

22:53

a point of sale system or

22:55

use Shopify's POS Go mobile device

22:57

for a battle tested solution. Plus,

23:00

Shopify's award winning help is there

23:02

to support your success every step

23:04

of the way. Do

23:07

retail right with Shopify. Sign

23:09

up for a $1 per

23:11

month trial period at shopify.com/unsolved.

23:13

All lower case. Go to

23:15

shopify.com slash unsolved to take

23:17

your retail business to the

23:20

next level today. shopify.com/unsolved. Walmart

23:23

Walmart Plus members save on meeting up with

23:25

friends. Save on having them over

23:27

for dinner with free delivery with no hidden

23:29

fees or markups. That's groceries plus napkins, plus

23:32

that vegetable chopper to make things a bit

23:34

easier. Plus, members save on gas to go

23:36

meet them in their neck of the woods.

23:38

Plus, when you're ready for the ultimate sign

23:40

of friendship, start a show together with your

23:43

included Paramount Plus subscription. Walmart Plus members save

23:45

on this plus so much more. Start a

23:47

30-day free trial at walmartplus.com. Paramount

23:49

Plus is central plan only. Separate registration required. See Walmart

23:51

Plus terms and conditions. your

24:00

photos in the stand. Good sign! Hold

24:03

on! Switch to Verizon and get a great deal

24:05

on a new iPhone 15 Pro with tons of

24:07

storage for all the ballpark picks you want. Just

24:09

trade in your iPhone, any model in any condition

24:11

so you'll feel like you're winning, even when your

24:14

team's not. Trade in any iPhone

24:16

in any condition for a great deal on

24:18

iPhone 15 Pro with Unlimited Ultimate and get

24:20

iPad and Apple Watch SE with Eligible Service

24:22

Plan, only on Verizon. You can

24:24

make money the hard way of becoming a bullfighter or

24:27

save money the easy way with Xfinity Mobile.

24:30

It should be making money as a human cannonball.

24:34

Now through March 21st learn how existing

24:36

Xfinity customers can get a free line of unlimited

24:38

intro for a year when they buy one unlimited

24:41

buy. That's hundreds of dollars

24:43

in savings on your wireless bill. Visit

24:45

xfinitymobile.com today. Restrictions apply. Xfinity

24:47

Mobile requires Xfinity Internet. Reduce speeds after

24:50

20 gigabytes of usage online. Data thresholds

24:52

may vary. Time

24:55

for a quick break to talk about McDonald's. Wake

24:58

up and bagelize. Get your

25:00

taste buds ready for McDonald's breakfast bagel

25:02

sandwiches. Now just $3 only on the

25:04

app. Choose from a delicious steak

25:06

egg and cheese bagel, bacon egg and cheese bagel

25:08

or sausage egg and cheese bagel. Just

25:11

$3 when you order ahead on the app. Hurry

25:13

and seize this breakfast steal before it's gone.

25:16

Offer valid one time daily March 11th through

25:18

April 7th, 2024 at Participating McDonald's. Must

25:20

opt into rewards. Christine

25:23

Cole was missing for 54 days. On

25:26

February 28th, 1988, her

25:29

body washed up on a beach in

25:31

Warwick, Rhode Island, about 15

25:33

miles away from Pawtucket. A

25:35

man was walking his dog on the beach at

25:39

Conimicate Point Park around 8 a.m.

25:41

when he saw

25:43

what he thought was a mannequin or

25:45

some kind of doll. Christine's

25:48

body was found at the point where

25:50

the Providence River empties

25:52

into Narragansett Bay. The

25:56

tide was going down at this time. Her

25:58

body was found in a cove. near a

26:00

boat ramp. You know, I know we

26:02

talk about this all the time, the shock of

26:05

finding a body, but the shock of

26:07

finding a kid's body. A 10 year

26:09

old. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's all

26:11

going to be traumatic. It's

26:14

going to be devastating for the person

26:16

who finds it, but I do

26:18

think there would be a different

26:21

level of devastation. Finding

26:23

the body of a 10 year old

26:26

versus finding an adult. I think

26:28

there's something to that. It was

26:30

said that Christine's clothing matched what

26:32

she was wearing when she disappeared.

26:35

Her mother identified the clothes that day, but

26:38

the identification was considered

26:41

unofficial. The North Adams

26:43

transcript reported that Margaret spoke to reporters

26:45

when she left the police station and

26:47

said, I don't know what

26:50

happened or who did this, but I hope

26:52

they do find the person who did this

26:54

to my daughter. She continued,

26:56

I think somebody else was involved

26:58

in her death because my daughter

27:00

being in the water, someone

27:03

had to get her that way. They

27:05

must've picked her up, did whatever

27:07

they did and threw her into

27:09

the water. I think that's a reasonable

27:12

statement. Yeah. Very unlikely

27:14

that she would make

27:17

it to this point by herself

27:19

and, and somehow end

27:21

up in the water without

27:23

another person's intervention. Right. Yeah.

27:26

Christine's cause of death was not

27:29

determined immediately. The police said they

27:31

would not decide whether to treat

27:33

her death as a homicide until

27:36

after the autopsy was complete. And

27:38

that makes sense. I mean, you want to

27:41

do that examination. You want to have

27:43

all the facts before you

27:46

come out and definitively

27:48

say, you know, this is, this

27:50

was the cause of death. Well,

27:52

it's going to be important to the investigation. Deputy

27:55

chief medical examiner, Kristen Sweeney

27:57

said the autopsy, which took

28:00

place the day Christine was found, indicated

28:03

no obvious trauma. On

28:06

February 29, Sweeney announced that

28:08

Christine died from drowning.

28:11

As reported by the Boston Globe, Dr.

28:13

Sweeney announced that the cause of death

28:16

is asphyxia with submersion or

28:19

lack of oxygen due to

28:21

being underneath the water. But

28:24

she declined to say whether the

28:26

drowning was accidental, stating, because

28:28

of the circumstances and

28:30

so on, all we can say is

28:33

she was submerged terminally.

28:36

Kind of leaving it open there. Not saying

28:38

it was accidental, not saying it

28:40

was homicide. Because I don't know

28:42

how they could tell. Sweeney explained

28:44

that the body had been in the water too

28:47

long to determine whether

28:49

Christine drowned or whether asphyxiation

28:51

occurred before she entered the

28:53

water. She recommended that

28:56

the police treat the case as

28:58

a suspicious death because

29:00

of the circumstances surrounding

29:02

Christine's disappearance and

29:04

not because of the autopsy

29:06

result. And I had

29:08

a little bit of trouble reconciling

29:11

some of those statements. You

29:13

know, at one point she

29:16

says she was

29:18

submerged terminally. There

29:20

was lack of oxygen due

29:22

to being underneath the water. And

29:26

then later she says,

29:28

Sweeney does, not

29:30

sure whether asphyxiation

29:33

occurred before she entered the

29:35

water. It seems to me like

29:37

some of those statements are at odds

29:39

with each other. Conflicting. Because

29:42

my first thought was the autopsy

29:44

kind of ruled out Christine

29:47

being killed somewhere else

29:49

and then her body being dumped in the water. But

29:52

now I'm not so sure. Sweeney

29:54

would not say whether Christine

29:56

was sexually assaulted but noted

29:58

that her clothes were not

30:00

in disarray. There were no

30:02

other injuries, but further testing was still

30:05

needed. Sweeney also pointed

30:07

out that the identification was

30:09

still presumptive, based on

30:11

Christine's clothing, and it was still

30:14

unofficial. But on March 5, 1988, the body found on

30:16

the beach was

30:19

officially identified as Christine Cole.

30:22

Dr. Sweeney announced that the age of

30:24

the bones and teeth were consistent with

30:26

the child being 10 years old. Officials

30:29

unsuccessfully tried to identify Christine

30:32

with fingerprints and heel prints.

30:35

She had no dental records because she

30:37

had never been to a dentist, but

30:39

she was identified by her broken

30:41

tooth. 10 years old never been

30:43

to the dentist. Well, if they don't have

30:46

dental insurance or ways to

30:49

pay for the services, I guess that can happen. But

30:51

it's not good. No. Not

30:54

saying it doesn't happen, but

30:56

as a 10-year-old, you

30:58

would like to have known

31:00

that she had seen a dentist on a regular

31:02

basis. But I get it. If you can't afford

31:04

it, you can't afford it. We

31:06

know they were on welfare. Yeah. With

31:09

such little evidence, Christine's case

31:11

went cold for the next

31:13

three decades. In

31:15

November 2018, the Pawtucket Police released

31:17

a deck of playing cards featuring

31:20

an unsolved case on each card

31:23

in hopes of getting new leads. These

31:25

cards are only sold to inmates

31:27

through the commissary at the Rhode

31:29

Island Department of Correction. These

31:32

are good things. I remember some

31:34

similar cards being sold

31:37

at other prisons. Yeah. And actually, a

31:40

former inmate sent

31:42

us in a deck, which

31:44

we have here in the studio. I

31:46

think they were from, I want

31:48

to say Arizona, maybe something

31:50

like that. I do think

31:53

it's a good thing. You're sitting around,

31:55

you're playing cards, you have nothing else

31:57

to do. You're going

31:59

to read about how. Some. Of these

32:01

unsolved case. And. Maybe just

32:04

maybe. Somebody. Who happens to

32:06

be playing in the card game? Know.

32:09

Something about yeah, shared a cell

32:11

with somebody that new somethin never

32:13

know. The. Program was

32:15

launched by Detective Susan

32:17

Cormier. See. Receive federal funding

32:20

for the cards and invited

32:22

departments across the state. To

32:24

submit case. She. Spoke

32:26

with Nbc Ten about the purpose

32:29

of selling the cards, then made

32:31

saying sometimes they may have had

32:33

a conversation with another inmate years

32:35

ago or someone out on the

32:37

street. Before. They were incarcerated.

32:40

They. May know something. In may

32:42

be willing to meet with us or phone in

32:44

a tip. It's. A long time. And.

32:47

Around the holidays. It's.

32:49

The most. On. July. Eighteen,

32:51

two thousand and ninety. The.

32:53

Pot Talk A police department announced.

32:56

The. Arrest of fifty nine year

32:58

olds. Oh wow. Montero. A

33:01

Cape Verde, an immigrant living and

33:03

Central Falls, Rhode Island. He. Was

33:05

charged with the murder of Christine

33:07

Call. Detective Susan for me

33:09

a reopen the case in August. Two

33:12

thousand eighty. And discovered evidence

33:14

that was submitted for test

33:16

years earlier but was not

33:18

included in the case for.

33:20

The. Test results came back in two thousand

33:22

and ten. And. Show that a

33:25

males blood was found on the

33:27

inside of Christine's pan. For.

33:29

Me A requested further testing of

33:31

the blood sample. And hopes

33:33

that advances in technology would

33:36

give more information. Invest

33:38

gears obtained a larger

33:40

genetic profile. Which. Was

33:42

checked against the Rhode Island

33:44

Department of Health Dna database.

33:47

The. Closest Dna match was a twenty

33:49

six year old man. Who. Had

33:51

been arrested. He. Was not even born.

33:54

When. Christine disappeared. so investigators

33:56

began looking into his family.

33:59

And. i didn't his father,

34:01

Joao Montero. The arrest

34:04

warrant stated that Montero lived

34:06

at different addresses in Christine's

34:08

neighborhood, including an apartment

34:11

directly above the market where

34:13

she was last seen. This

34:15

is good news for investigators, right? Well,

34:18

it sure seems like it. You know, if you

34:20

break it down, this man, at

34:23

one time at least, lived

34:25

in the apartment above the market where

34:28

she was last seen. And then

34:30

you think about blood on

34:32

the inside of her pant.

34:34

Yeah. How does that get

34:36

there? If it was on the

34:39

outside, okay, you could make a

34:41

case that, you know, he

34:43

was bleeding, it dripped on

34:45

something, she brushed up against

34:48

it. And I'm sure police could even

34:50

tell if that was the case or not.

34:52

But when you're talking about on the inside,

34:54

it's going to be a little harder to

34:56

get there. Yeah, I think so. It's definitely leading

34:59

them to think that he

35:01

could have had something to do with what happened

35:03

to Christine. Cormier obtained a

35:06

search warrant to collect DNA

35:08

samples from Montero. On

35:10

the evening of July 17, she

35:12

received news that the DNA

35:14

matched. The blood found on

35:17

Christine's pants, Montero was

35:19

arrested that night. But Montero

35:21

denied knowing Christine or having

35:23

any involvement in her disappearance

35:26

and death. During the

35:28

post-arrest press conference, Cormier said Christine

35:30

was most likely in the wrong

35:32

place at the wrong time because

35:35

there did not appear to be

35:37

any connection between her and Montero.

35:40

And those are the hardest cases to solve. Yeah.

35:43

When there is no connection between

35:46

the perpetrator and

35:49

the victim. Just random. Like

35:51

you said, Gibbs, this was

35:53

a huge development. After

35:55

all, 31 years had gone by.

35:58

Many were hopeful. Christine's case

36:01

was finally solved. Then

36:03

on January 31st, 2020, the

36:06

Rhode Island attorney general's office announced

36:08

that the evidence

36:11

against Joao, Montero was

36:13

not sufficient and they

36:15

would not proceed with the case. About

36:17

letting the air out. Yeah, it lets

36:19

the air out, but let's break

36:21

it down. Blood found on her

36:24

pants. It doesn't look good. Is

36:27

that alone going

36:29

to be enough to

36:31

prove that this man had

36:34

something to do with Christine's death? And

36:37

I think that's, you know, what the

36:39

attorney general's office has to weigh.

36:42

Because let's remember, you know,

36:44

you put this guy on trial for murder.

36:46

You only get one shot. Yeah,

36:48

I think you've got to have more than just that. Well,

36:51

they thought so for sure. The

36:53

attorney general's office wrote the main

36:55

evidence in the case is

36:57

why STR DNA,

36:59

which matches Montero,

37:02

but also matches all of

37:04

his paternal male. Walt

37:06

is this did not narrow down

37:09

the suspects enough to move forward

37:11

with prosecution. Montero's attorney,

37:13

William divine argued that

37:15

the DNA could include

37:17

thousands of people. Well, that's

37:19

not good for a prosecutor. No.

37:22

And I think it, you know, it even

37:25

shows you further why they were

37:28

hesitant to move forward. Even

37:30

if it wasn't thousands, even

37:32

if it was, you know, just a male

37:34

in the family, a defense

37:37

attorney could make a pretty strong

37:39

argument. You know, how can you

37:42

pin this on my client when

37:44

you can't prove that the DNA

37:47

is even hit? It could be a brother,

37:50

an uncle. I'm not sure who

37:53

all it could have been,

37:55

but you're talking about a number of

37:57

different people. Adopt to present reasonable doubt.

37:59

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Colleen

38:02

Fitzpatrick, the founder of Identifiers

38:04

International, a company that solves

38:06

cold cases, explained what this

38:08

meant to NBC 10. She

38:11

said, if you have a wide

38:13

DNA match, all you can

38:15

say is it's somebody in that

38:17

family along the male line. You

38:19

really can't pin down the exact person

38:22

normally. And so, like

38:25

you said, you could see where that would

38:27

present a problem for

38:29

a jury. You're going to convict

38:31

a man based on what?

38:33

The fact that it could be

38:36

his DNA, but

38:38

it could not be? Yeah, it almost sounds

38:40

like maybe the investigators or

38:42

the prosecutors

38:44

got a little too eager

38:46

with this information when it came out. A

38:49

judge formally dismissed the murder

38:52

charge against Montero on February

38:54

4th, 2020. Prosecutors

38:56

didn't contest the dismissal and

38:58

agreed that the DNA evidence

39:00

just wasn't strong enough. Authorities

39:03

could refile charges if new

39:05

evidence becomes available. Montero's

39:07

attorney, William Devine, told NBC

39:09

10 that his client was

39:11

relieved. This chapter of

39:13

his life was closed. He said

39:16

Montero was emotionally distraught, adding, there

39:18

was no other evidence, anecdotal or

39:20

otherwise, to corroborate what

39:22

those charges were. He's not

39:24

wrong. No, he's not wrong. I mean, if

39:26

they would have had an eyewitness that

39:30

said they saw Montero

39:32

following Christine or with

39:34

Christine, okay, maybe

39:36

that would have been enough along with

39:38

the DNA to move forward. But

39:40

if you don't have anything else,

39:43

you don't have enough. Sources reported that

39:46

Montero was a married father of four.

39:48

He worked the same job for more than a

39:51

decade, but he was fired and could no

39:53

longer pay his bills. He had

39:55

to leave his apartment and move in

39:57

with his sister. He became fearful

40:00

and reclusive as a result of

40:02

the charges. And we've

40:04

talked about this before. You know,

40:07

if you're a person who really had

40:09

nothing to do with what you

40:11

were charged with, right? And

40:13

let's not forget, these are really

40:15

heinous charges. Oh yeah. Your

40:18

life is never going to be the same. Even

40:21

after they dismiss the charges. Yeah.

40:24

Because people will hear the first part. They never hear

40:26

what happened. You know, if you got off or

40:29

you were charged incorrectly, a lot

40:31

of people won't hear about that. Or even

40:33

if they do, they don't believe it. They

40:36

think, okay, they didn't have enough

40:38

to move forward on, but obviously

40:40

you were guilty because they arrested

40:42

you. Yeah, exactly. And I think

40:44

a lot of people are like that. Pawtucket

40:47

police detective, Sergeant Christopher LaFort

40:49

issued a statement in response

40:51

to dismissal saying, we

40:53

respect the attorney general's decision. We

40:56

are confident about our investigation so

40:58

far, and we will continue work

41:00

towards a conviction in this case.

41:03

In January, 2021, attorneys for

41:05

Montero filed a civil complaint

41:08

against the city of Pawtucket

41:10

and its police department. The

41:13

complaint alleges that Montero was

41:15

arrested without probable cause deprived

41:18

of his constitutional rights,

41:20

falsely imprisoned and slandered.

41:23

And that evidence was fabricated and

41:25

suppressed in an attempt

41:27

to solve the case. Pretty

41:30

serious allegations. Yeah,

41:33

they are. Now, could some of

41:35

them be true and others be false?

41:38

I would say yes. Could they

41:40

all be false? I would say,

41:42

yeah, yeah, possible. Montero's attorneys

41:45

alleged that members of the

41:47

police department fabricated false statements

41:50

and took advantage of a language barrier

41:52

to make it seem like Montero was

41:54

guilty. The lawsuit also

41:56

alleges that DNA evidence was

41:59

misrepresented. falsified.

42:02

The complaint stated this DNA

42:04

profile potentially pointed to any

42:06

number of men who may

42:08

have had some connection to the

42:10

area for some unknown reason. The

42:12

Pawtucket defendants decided

42:15

to target plaintiff an innocent

42:17

man. The complaint also noted

42:20

but for his race ethnicity

42:22

and or national origin defendants

42:25

would not have targeted him for

42:27

unlawful arrest. According

42:30

to WPRI the

42:32

complaint stated that Montero had absolutely

42:35

nothing to do with the murder

42:37

and had never known or interacted with

42:40

the girl. The suit named four

42:42

members of the police

42:45

department detectives Susan Cormier

42:48

and Trevor Lefebvre, Major

42:50

Daniel Mullen and Chief Tina

42:53

Goncalves as well

42:55

as Tamara Wong, an employee

42:57

of the Rhode Island Department of Health

42:59

who supplied DNA evidence in the case.

43:02

Chief Tina Goncalves told 12 News,

43:05

cold cases always have a high

43:07

degree of difficulty given the

43:09

time that elapses. In this

43:12

particular case the department met the

43:14

burden of proof for probable

43:16

cause with new testing for

43:18

the DNA sample to administer

43:20

an arrest. The Attorney

43:23

General's office looked at the findings

43:25

and stated that they would require

43:27

more information. The Pawtucket Police

43:29

Department is working closely with the

43:32

assistant attorney general assigned to the

43:34

case and remains committed to giving

43:36

the family of 10 year old

43:38

Christine Cole closure. At this

43:41

point the individual continues to be

43:43

a prime suspect in the case.

43:46

Walmart Plus members save on meeting up with friends.

43:49

Save on having them over for dinner with

43:51

free delivery with no hidden fees or markups.

43:53

That's groceries plus napkins plus that vegetable chopper

43:55

to make things a bit easier. Plus members

43:57

save on gas to go meet them in

43:59

their neck of the world. Plus, when you're

44:01

ready for the ultimate sign of friendship, start

44:03

a show together with your included Paramount Plus

44:05

subscription. Walmart Plus members save on

44:08

this plus so much more. Start

44:10

a 30-day free trial at walmartplus.com.

44:12

Paramount Plus is central plan only. Separate registration required.

44:14

See Walmart Plus terms and conditions. Time

44:17

for a quick break to talk about McDonald's. Wake

44:20

up and bagelize. Get your

44:22

taste buds ready for McDonald's breakfast bagel

44:24

sandwiches. Now just $3 only on the

44:26

app. Choose from a delicious steak, egg,

44:29

and cheese bagel, bacon, egg, and cheese bagel, or

44:31

sausage, egg, and cheese bagel. Just $3

44:33

when you order ahead on the app. Hurry

44:35

and seize this breakfast steal before it's gone.

44:38

Offer valid one time daily March 11th through April 7th, 2024

44:40

at participating McDonald's. Must

44:42

up into rewards. You

44:45

can make money the hard way becoming a bullfighter, or

44:48

save money the easy way with Xfinity Mobile.

44:51

It sure beats making money as a human cannonball.

44:55

Learn how existing Xfinity customers can get a free

44:57

line of unlimited intro for a year when they

44:59

buy one unlimited line. Plus, now through February 27th,

45:02

ask how to get the new Samsung Galaxy S24 with 128GB on

45:06

us. Visit xfinitymobile.com today. Free

45:08

unlimited line offer ends March 21st. Restrictions

45:10

apply. Xfinity Mobile requires Xfinity Internet. Reduce speeds up

45:12

to 20GB of usage per line. Data thresholds may

45:16

Luxury is meant to be livable. Discover

45:18

the new leather collection at Ashley with

45:21

premium quality leather sofas, recliners, and more

45:23

all built to last. No matter how

45:25

many spos, scuffs, or pet related mishaps

45:27

come its way, the leather collection at

45:29

Ashley is made with the durability you

45:31

need for the whole family. Shop the

45:34

new leather collection at Ashley and find

45:36

shares starting at $499.99 and sofas at

45:38

$599.99. Ashley for the love of home.

45:47

On October 2nd, 2023, a

45:50

judge allowed the lawsuit to move forward

45:52

because Montero presented sufficient evidence

45:55

for a jury trial. And

45:57

based on that last statement. that

46:00

he's still a prime

46:02

suspect. I'm wondering if he

46:05

thought winning this

46:07

trial would not only give him some

46:09

money, but also somehow clear his

46:11

name. Yeah, maybe. Could

46:13

have been just the money, could have been both. In

46:17

the ruling, Judge Mary McElroy

46:19

referenced tax between forensic scientist

46:22

Tamara Wong and detective Susan

46:24

Cormier. Wong was the one

46:26

who tested the blood stain on Christine's

46:28

pan. She texted

46:30

Cormier, it's a match. The

46:33

judge ruled that Wong didn't

46:35

elaborate on the fact that

46:37

it was a familial DNA

46:39

match and not a unique

46:41

match, which led to a

46:43

miscommunication with detective Cormier. And

46:46

we know those are two very different

46:48

things. Yeah. A unique

46:51

match would be one of

46:53

those one in, however many

46:56

billions or trillions. It's like a slam

46:58

dunk. Slam dunked, obviously this

47:00

is not that. It's like it's in the

47:02

ballpark. Yeah, you're in the ballpark, but we

47:05

don't know which sheet you're in. According

47:08

to WPRI, detective Cormier

47:10

responded to Wong a couple hours

47:12

later and asked her

47:14

to translate this into her language

47:17

and dumb it down. Cormier claimed

47:19

that Wong did not explain that the

47:22

results were not unique and

47:24

were just consistent with Montero's

47:26

DNA. The DNA profile would

47:29

match one in every 1,909 men.

47:34

Those are not good odds. No, not

47:37

good odds to try to send somebody away

47:39

to prison for a long time. No, not at

47:42

all. I mean, to me, this is not

47:44

even, you're in the ballpark. You

47:47

might be in the right state, but

47:49

we don't know where you are in that state.

47:52

Yeah, I can see where the suspect

47:55

in this case was upset. After

47:57

all, this information came out.

48:00

Yeah, I can see that. Does it

48:02

mean he didn't do it? No, no,

48:05

it doesn't. But what it does mean is just

48:09

like the The Attorney

48:11

General's office said there's not

48:14

sufficient evidence to take this thing

48:16

to trial. The initial affidavit identified

48:19

the sample as being

48:21

a consistent match. The

48:23

ruling stated that Cormier texted

48:25

District Court Magistrate Jay Patrick

48:27

O'Neill about the results. Her

48:30

text referred to the results as

48:32

a match without any qualification.

48:35

And I think that's important. When you

48:37

say to someone that we have a

48:39

DNA match, what

48:41

would that mean to you? We

48:43

got them. Slam dunk match. Yeah. Like

48:46

unequivocal. Go get

48:48

them. Right. If you don't add

48:51

something on to

48:53

qualify what that match

48:55

means, then I do

48:58

think that's a problem because I think

49:00

most people would take it

49:02

that way. This is a match. Couldn't

49:05

be anybody else but him. Yeah. I

49:07

think this is when people in the office are high-fiving

49:09

each other. We got the son of a, you

49:11

know, a good gun. Gun. Bitch. Whatever

49:13

you want to say. Cormier

49:15

texted O'Neill when confirming her

49:18

appointment to bring the arrest

49:20

warrant application to him. She wrote,

49:22

we executed the warrant, did

49:24

the DNA test and got a match.

49:27

O'Neill responded, that's

49:30

pretty blanking awesome.

49:32

Explative omitted. All right.

49:35

All right, Judge. Let's see how

49:37

you roll. Judge McElroy

49:39

ruled that O'Neill's response

49:41

could potentially lead a jury

49:44

to infer that he believed

49:46

the results were a unique match

49:49

based on Cormier's wording. And

49:51

I think that is absolutely true. That's what

49:53

we just talked about, right? I think that's

49:55

what the judge thought. McElroy also

49:57

found that critical pieces of information

50:00

were omitted from the arrest warrant,

50:03

a jury could find that Cormier

50:05

was motivated by ill will and

50:08

not a desire to discern facts. The

50:11

omitted evidence was that Monteiro

50:13

lived above the market where

50:15

Christine was last seen 13

50:17

years after she died. Monteiro

50:20

admitted that he lived in the building,

50:23

but not in the 80s. This was

50:25

corroborated by a stolen car report from

50:28

2001. That's

50:30

another problem. It is. I

50:33

mean, is the fact that

50:35

he lived in that building of

50:37

interest? Yes, it absolutely

50:39

is. But if you

50:41

say that he lived there 13

50:45

years after Christine

50:47

died, then what's

50:49

the relevant? Yeah, it means nothing. The

50:51

judge wrote that the omissions from

50:53

the warrant affidavit could be found

50:56

to have evidence of

50:58

determination to overstate the incriminating evidence

51:00

against Monteiro and forestall any doubts

51:02

about his guilt. The

51:05

affidavit also admitted that detectives

51:07

Cormier and Lefebvre interviewed a

51:09

federal prison inmate who claimed

51:11

he spoke to inmate Pedro

51:14

Ortiz, who lived near where

51:16

Christine was last seen and

51:19

allegedly described drowning her. I

51:21

think that's another problem, right? They should have

51:24

supplied this information. It should have

51:26

been in there. You can't pick and

51:28

choose. And this is something that,

51:31

you know, irks me. When we talk

51:33

about what is the goal, the

51:36

goal should be to get to the

51:38

truth and to get to the truth,

51:41

you can't use only the things

51:43

that are favorable to you and

51:46

throw out anything that doesn't

51:49

match your your theory

51:51

or your suspect. It

51:54

doesn't work that way. No. Finally, the

51:56

judge noted that the police department did not

51:58

have a system in the case of a

52:00

criminal. in place to supervise investigations and

52:03

detective Cormier had been reprimanded

52:05

in the past for inadequate

52:08

investigation. Okay. That's not

52:10

a good thing. Also not

52:12

really something you want to come to

52:14

light in a judge's ruling. No,

52:17

you know, if, if a judge

52:19

in, in some type of decision

52:23

was saying about Michael

52:25

Gibson, well, he's also been

52:27

reprimanded many, many times. And

52:30

cited for poor job performance.

52:34

It's, you know, it would be true, but

52:36

it's not something you would want it to come

52:38

out. Talk to my boss again, man. Judge

52:41

McElroy wrote clearly the

52:43

lack of any substantive training

52:46

in DNA could be found

52:48

to have directly contributed to

52:50

Cormier's alleged failure to understand

52:52

the results Joao Montero's

52:55

lawsuit has not reached a

52:57

resolution and Christine's case

52:59

remains unsolved DNA technology

53:02

advances every year. We

53:04

know that and familial DNA

53:07

is being used more frequently to

53:09

solve cold cases. There

53:11

is hope that the DNA sample

53:13

can be narrowed down enough to

53:15

identify a suspect and make

53:18

an arrest if that person is still

53:20

alive. So as we wrap this one

53:22

up, obviously it's terrible. What

53:24

happened to Christine? We don't

53:26

have answers to a

53:28

lot of questions. A lot of those

53:30

questions we asked early on, what

53:33

was going on at home? Or was

53:35

there something going on at home that

53:37

she was afraid of? It's something that a

53:39

lot of people seem to bring up or

53:41

at least they thought was the

53:43

case. I mean, she seems sad.

53:45

A lot of people said she seems sad. Um,

53:49

always alone. Just not things that

53:51

you would expect to see with a, or

53:53

would want to see with a 10 year old and

53:56

you'd really like an answer to that question.

53:58

Now, does it have a bare. on the case, we

54:01

don't know. Maybe it does and

54:03

maybe the answer to the question would

54:05

help provide something

54:09

in the way of context. Maybe it has

54:11

nothing to do with her disappearance

54:13

at all. Yeah, maybe not. And

54:15

then you have this

54:17

guy Montero, I don't know what

54:19

to think of him. He is either

54:22

someone who was kind of

54:25

railroaded into being charged, his

54:27

name was smeared, his life was ruined,

54:30

which it's kind of leaning towards based

54:33

on everything that the judge

54:35

said. The problem is you

54:38

can exclude him, but you

54:41

can't exclude a lot of people. That's right. Well,

54:43

we know there's blood on her pants that

54:46

could be his. Could be his or many

54:49

other people. Yeah, one in 1909, that

54:51

is not a reassuring number. No.

54:56

It's not the type of numbers we're used to

54:58

hearing. We're used to hearing one in 32 billion

55:01

or whatever, 32

55:04

million or billion, trillion, I don't know. Those are

55:06

numbers you feel good about. But when it comes

55:08

to DNA, one in 1909 means nothing. I

55:13

mean, walk out on the street

55:15

in Rhode Island and that

55:17

town, well, you could have did it, you could have

55:19

did it. All you have to do is

55:21

figure out how many males are

55:24

in the area and divide that by 1909.

55:28

That's gonna give you your percentage or

55:30

your number of possibilities. Yeah, it's gonna

55:33

be pretty high. It's gonna be a

55:35

higher number than you would feel comfortable

55:38

with. And then I think

55:40

my other issue is, so

55:44

they go down this road and

55:46

you always have to ask the question, did

55:48

it keep them from going down other avenues?

55:51

Now it was many, many years later. If

55:53

this had happened three months

55:56

after her death and

55:58

they stuck with this guy. for a long

56:01

time and excluded looking

56:04

at other people. I

56:06

would say it would have hurt the

56:08

investigation more. I don't know how much it

56:10

hurt the investigation 30

56:12

plus years down the road. I

56:15

just, I really feel for this guy if he had

56:17

nothing to do with it. Oh, absolutely. Terrible

56:20

for him if he had nothing to do with it. But that's it

56:22

for our case on the murder of Christine

56:24

Cole. We got some voicemails, Gibbs. You wanna

56:26

check those out? Yeah, let's hear them. Hey

56:29

Mike, hey Gibby. My name is

56:32

Jenny. I have been listening to y'all's

56:34

podcasts since 2018, I

56:36

do believe. Right

56:39

now I'm listening to the Nanette Kretinal case.

56:42

And my husband was actually the

56:44

gas delivery guy to that house

56:46

and was questioned by the police

56:49

in this case multiple times,

56:51

not as a suspect, but asking questions

56:53

about the gas and all of that.

56:57

So yeah, I just thought that was pretty cool. He

56:59

doesn't listen to y'all, but he told me that

57:01

I had to wait for

57:03

him to listen to this case because he wanted to listen

57:05

to it with me. Okay,

57:08

thanks. Hey fellas, it's Jenny

57:10

again. With the Nanette

57:12

Kretinal case, or Kretinal case, my

57:16

husband, like I said, was

57:18

the gas delivery guy. But the day before the

57:20

fire, he had filled their tank up and

57:24

had told the husband

57:26

that the tank was too close to the house

57:28

and needed to be moved back, that they would

57:30

have to schedule the time to do that. And

57:33

the husband did not want

57:35

to move the tank from

57:38

the house, he wanted it as close to the

57:40

house as possible. All right, that's all I

57:42

got, thanks. So I

57:44

had to put those two voicemails together,

57:46

but pretty interesting information. Yeah, especially that

57:49

last part there where the husband

57:51

wanted it up as close to the house as he could

57:53

get it. Yeah, I found it intriguing.

57:57

Hi, Mike and Debbie, I can't believe I'm calling.

58:00

I have been listening to you guys

58:02

for years off and on. One of

58:05

my friends turned me on to you guys

58:07

and it's just been such a joy, as

58:10

dark as that may sound, to listen to

58:12

you guys. I love your banter. I love

58:14

the back and forth. I had to take

58:16

some breaks after a couple episodes, but I

58:18

keep coming back and eventually I'm going to

58:20

get through Teat Cat and then get to

58:22

the Unsolved. I'm almost through it. I really

58:24

am and I'll get to the Unsolved, I

58:27

promise. I've never been one to listen to

58:29

the Unsolved portions, but for you guys, I

58:31

will, I promise. I look

58:33

forward to all the episodes to come and I

58:36

love what you do. Love, love what you do.

58:38

Thank you so much for all the effort you

58:40

put into your episodes and the background.

58:42

It's just so fascinating. That's

58:44

all. My name is Jen and keep

58:47

your own time ticking. Oh

58:49

my gosh, Jen, we were wondering, were you

58:51

going to call? I've been wondering this whole

58:53

time. And finally you called. We've been waiting.

58:56

And so it's going to be a

58:58

while, but this will be a little Easter

59:00

egg for when she does get to this

59:02

point in the Unsolved. Yeah. She's

59:04

going to hear her voicemail. We appreciate you. Yeah, we

59:06

do very, very much. All right, buddy, that is

59:09

it for another episode of True

59:11

Crime All the Time Unsolved. So for

59:13

Mike and Gabby, stay safe and keep

59:15

your own time ticking. Thank

59:28

you. Pluto

59:52

TV is TV the way it should be.

59:55

Free. 10, 300 channels,

59:57

thousands of movies and TV shows costing zeroes

59:59

of dollars. So if you want to

1:00:01

watch shows like Ghost, The Walking Dead, CSI, Star

1:00:03

Trek, or The Price Is Right, well, The Price

1:00:05

Is Right, it's free. Hit movies

1:00:08

like Braveheart, Sonic the Hedgehog, Anchorman, The Legend

1:00:10

of Ron Burgundy, or Mean Girls won't cost

1:00:12

you a thing, because everything is free. All

1:00:15

you have to do is download the app, which, by the

1:00:17

way, is also free. Pluto

1:00:19

TV. Stream now. Pay never. Walmart

1:00:23

Plus members save on meeting up with friends.

1:00:25

Save on having them over for dinner with

1:00:27

free delivery with no hidden fees or markups.

1:00:30

That's groceries plus napkins, plus that vegetable chopper

1:00:32

to make things a bit easier. Plus, members

1:00:34

save on gas to go meet them in

1:00:36

their neck of the woods. Plus, when you're

1:00:38

ready for the ultimate sign of friendship, start

1:00:41

a show together with your included Paramount Plus

1:00:43

subscription. Walmart Plus members save on this plus

1:00:45

so much more. Start a 30-day free trial

1:00:47

at walmartplus.com. Paramount Plus is central

1:00:49

plan only. Separate registration required. See Walmart Plus terms

1:00:51

and conditions. Time

1:00:54

for a quick break to talk about McDonald's. Wake

1:00:57

up and bagelize. Get your

1:00:59

taste buds ready for McDonald's breakfast bagel

1:01:01

sandwiches. Now just $3, only on the

1:01:03

app. Choose from a delicious steak

1:01:05

egg and cheese bagel, bacon egg and cheese bagel,

1:01:07

or sausage egg and cheese bagel. Just

1:01:10

$3 when you order ahead on the app. Hurry

1:01:12

and seize this breakfast steal before it's gone.

1:01:14

Offer valid one time daily March 11 through

1:01:17

April 7, 2024 at participating McDonald's. Must

1:01:19

opt into rewards.