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2:08

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 331

2:11

of the True Crime All the Time Unsolved podcast.

2:14

I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my

2:16

partner in true crime, Mike Gibson.

2:18

Give me what is going on with you. Hey man, I'm doing

2:20

good. How about you? I'm doing very

2:22

well. You and I just finished

2:24

recording our second

2:27

part on Gary Ridgeway, the

2:29

Green River Killer. I tell you what,

2:31

that man was an absolute monster.

2:34

Well, he still is. He's still alive. Yeah,

2:36

he is. He was and is and always

2:39

will be.

2:39

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon

2:42

shout outs. We had Lindsay Hall. Hey Lindsay.

2:44

Terralynn Elise Love. Gotta

2:46

love some love. FFFF. What's

2:49

going on, Quad F? Molly

2:52

Crowell. Hey Molly. Tracy

2:54

Hadlock Gents. Hey, appreciate that Gents.

2:57

Bernie Lomax. What's going on, Lomax? Myra

2:59

Medrano. Oh, Medrano. Mary

3:02

Shower jumped out at our highest level. Hey,

3:04

appreciate that Shower. Dylan. What's up

3:06

Dylan? Erica Stevens. Hey Stevens.

3:09

Natty. Oh, Natty. Good

3:11

old Amanda. Hey Amanda. Lisa Mendo.

3:15

What's going on, Mendo? Lisa M. Colts.

3:17

Hey Lisa. Kelly Garvey Honer

3:20

jumped out at our highest level. Well, I appreciate

3:22

that. KGH. Zena

3:24

Armstrong. Hey Zena. Princess

3:26

Foyer. Yeah. And last

3:29

but not least, Araz Zengine. Ooh,

3:32

hey Araz. So we appreciate

3:34

all that new support. And then if we go back into

3:36

the vault, this

3:38

week we selected Starless Sim. What's

3:41

up Sims? Yeah. So appreciate the

3:43

long term support as well. We also had a great PayPal

3:45

donation from Victoria Charvet. We

3:47

appreciate that Charvet. So Gibbs,

3:49

at the time that this episode comes out, you

3:51

and I will be making our way back from

3:54

CrimeCon. We will be. So maybe

3:56

next week we'll have a story or two to tell.

3:59

I'm sure we will. You know, you always fly

4:01

out first class and you book me that

4:03

charter plane thing where

4:05

I'm sitting back with, I don't

4:07

even know, like boxes.

4:09

I get a little like jumper seat that flips down.

4:12

They strap me in, you know, right?

4:14

Be careful with the freight.

4:16

It might move, but

4:18

I get there. Yeah. I think at this point, no one

4:20

believes your woe is me

4:22

stories, but, uh, who knows? Woe

4:25

is me, but woe is

4:27

me. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode

4:29

of true crime all the time? Unsolved. I'm ready. We're

4:32

talking about the disappearance of

4:34

Elizabeth and Gil two

4:36

year old Elizabeth and Gil when missing

4:38

from her front yard on June 13th, 1965, decades

4:41

later, her

4:44

disappearance remains unsolved, but

4:46

Elizabeth family believes she could

4:48

still be a lot just that right there.

4:51

Scares me thinking

4:52

about two year old

4:54

being

4:55

snatched up out of the front yard. And

4:57

then this hope of the family that

4:59

she's still alive. Well, what would that mean that

5:02

she doesn't know who they are? Right.

5:05

Cause at two, if you were

5:07

raised by somebody else, and obviously we'll get

5:09

into all the details, Elizabeth

5:12

and Gil was born on August 21st, 1962. Most

5:16

of her family members gave her the nickname

5:18

Beth. Her parents were Harry

5:20

Gil and a Nola Gil.

5:24

Elizabeth had a large family. She was

5:26

the youngest of 10 siblings who

5:28

ranged in age from two to 19 years

5:31

old. Wow. That's a lot of kiddos. That

5:34

is 10 mouths to

5:36

feed. And it's a pretty good

5:38

span. You know, if you think about a 17 year

5:42

span, now sources don't list all

5:44

of the siblings names, but two

5:46

of Elizabeth sisters have spoken to

5:49

the media about her case over the years,

5:51

Elizabeth sister, Martha Gil,

5:53

Hamilton told Dateline that she was

5:56

everyone's little angel and she was

5:59

pampered and spoiled. because she

6:01

was the baby of the family. And you know, I kind of

6:03

talked about this last week, the

6:05

baby of the family versus the middle

6:07

child. Now we were talking about three siblings.

6:11

Now we've got 10 here, but

6:13

I do think if you've got nine

6:16

brothers and sisters, some

6:19

who are as old as 19 years old, oh

6:22

my gosh, you're getting a lot of attention.

6:24

You sure are, when you come along. You've

6:27

got a lot of moms and

6:29

I always call those extra

6:31

moms, you know? Just sisters. Yeah,

6:33

a lot of mothering, a lot of pampering,

6:35

a lot of spoiling. Another sister,

6:38

Jeannie Gil Hink, told Dateline

6:40

that their house was always chaotic

6:43

and full of kids. Yeah, I

6:45

can imagine if you have 10 kids, it's

6:48

gonna be pretty chaotic, because

6:50

I had two, or I have two, I

6:53

had two that lived here who

6:55

no longer do, and

6:57

just with the four of us. It was

6:59

constant chaos. And then had the friends

7:01

stopping over. Yeah, yeah. Oh

7:03

my gosh, it just got even more chaotic.

7:06

Well, every additional child you

7:08

have multiplies the

7:10

friends, because each child has

7:12

their own friends and oh my gosh, it

7:15

could get out of control. Enola stayed

7:17

home and took care of the children, while

7:19

Harry worked in St. Louis as an

7:22

electrician. He spent the week

7:24

in the city and came home on

7:26

weekends. And I do think

7:28

that was a lot more common in the 60s, for

7:31

one person to work, one person to stay

7:34

home. My other thought

7:36

is, it's gonna be pretty hard to

7:38

find a job where you can pay

7:40

for someone to look after that

7:43

many kids. Yeah, daycare

7:45

and babysitting is gonna be too

7:47

costly. Yeah, you might

7:49

go negative at a certain

7:52

point, the Gill family lived

7:54

on South Loramire Street in

7:57

Cape Girardeau, Missouri. saying

8:00

that correctly gives, but that's what I'm going with. They

8:02

had lived there for many years and trusted

8:05

the people in their community. And

8:07

I think that's important, right? Because of

8:09

what is going to occur. I

8:12

also don't think it's out of the

8:14

ordinary for the times. You know, if you got

8:16

a smaller town,

8:19

let's say in the sixties, early

8:22

sixties, right? A lot of trust.

8:25

You know, a lot of people, you're

8:27

probably feeling very safe. We often

8:29

talk about these are the types of places where,

8:31

you know, a lot of people didn't even lock

8:34

their door. Yeah. Not going to have a lot of concerns.

8:36

So, you know, to let the kids play

8:38

outside, probably

8:40

a little easier to do than,

8:44

you know, if you were downtown in

8:46

a big city or, you know, you

8:49

didn't know your neighbors

8:51

or, or whatever. Jeannie said about

8:53

her neighborhood is quoted by dayline. It

8:55

was very safe. We were in a residential

8:58

neighborhood. There were kids. We

9:00

just went where we wanted to without

9:03

thought of being harassed or hurt in

9:05

any way.

9:06

And that

9:07

is awesome. Everybody should be able

9:09

to do that. Absolutely.

9:11

That's the way

9:12

it's supposed to be for kids, you know? Yeah. Unfortunately,

9:15

we often see in these stories

9:18

that that thought of safety

9:20

is really just an illusion. Yeah.

9:23

It's real until it's kind

9:25

of taken away from you with

9:27

some type of horrific

9:29

incident.

9:30

In 1964, a new

9:32

motel called the down poem opened

9:34

in close proximity to the gills

9:37

backyard, Martha noted that they

9:39

became more cautious because there

9:41

was an increase of strangers in the area,

9:44

some of whom stayed for days or weeks at

9:46

a time. And I do think that would be a huge

9:48

change. It would be. You know, residential

9:51

area, kids are out playing.

9:53

All of a sudden there's a motel

9:56

built. Oh, by definition,

9:59

there's. going to be a lot of strangers

10:01

living, staying at the, at the motel.

10:05

Most people in town are not going to be staying

10:07

there because they have a house in town. Transient

10:09

people, right? Yeah. And so

10:12

I could see why there would be

10:14

a need to be more cautious. Because

10:17

of her young age, Elizabeth

10:19

was said to have been very trusting

10:22

of strangers. Strangers were always coming

10:24

up to her to comment on how cute

10:26

she was. According to Martha,

10:29

Elizabeth would follow the people who

10:31

approached her. And again, none of

10:33

this to me seems out of the ordinary. No.

10:36

Who doesn't absolutely go

10:38

gaga over, you know, cute little

10:41

baby one two year old. And

10:44

you walk up to the parents, you say, Oh, you know,

10:46

she's so cute. Yeah. Or he's so cute

10:48

or whatever it is. And as a

10:51

two year old, do you really

10:53

understand no matter how much

10:56

your parents tell you the notion

10:58

of a stranger? I don't

11:00

think so. I think a lot of two year olds never

11:03

have met a stranger. They just

11:05

think everybody's their friend and let's

11:08

play or whatever. Especially if

11:10

they have any candy or something exciting

11:12

in their hands. Well, sure. Colorful. While

11:15

the gills were a little concerned about the

11:17

influx of motel gas near their house,

11:20

they didn't think they would ever experience

11:22

the devastating tragedy of losing

11:25

a child. Well, how could you? I don't think anybody

11:27

does. No one expects

11:29

it. On the afternoon of June

11:31

13th, 1965, Elizabeth

11:34

Gill was abducted from her front yard

11:37

while she was playing outside. Both

11:39

parents were out of town on that

11:41

day. Elizabeth was home with

11:43

some of her older siblings, including

11:46

genie. Genie was 13 years old

11:49

at that time. So she was one of the

11:51

siblings who were in charge of running the household

11:53

and taking care of the younger

11:56

children. That's a good age

11:58

to help out. It's also

12:01

a young age to be in charge. In

12:03

charge, yes. All that. I was

12:05

thinking that as well. But when

12:07

you have 10 kids, again,

12:10

can you afford to pay

12:12

someone to watch them all? Or

12:15

do you have to lean

12:17

on some of the older ones

12:20

to kind of look over

12:22

things for a while while you're

12:24

gone? Yeah, I think you have to

12:26

count on

12:27

your own kids to help out. I guess it's hard

12:29

for me to say unequivocally,

12:33

this was right or this was wrong, to

12:35

leave Genie in charge. Because

12:38

I don't know the dynamic. Parents

12:40

have to make those decisions for themselves.

12:43

Now, we can all say what we would

12:46

or wouldn't do.

12:48

But I'm not in that position.

12:50

I never was. I didn't have 10 kids.

12:53

If

12:54

something happens while she's

12:56

on duty, it could have happened with

12:59

anybody on duty. Yeah, right. It

13:01

absolutely could. And I'm sure we'll talk about Genie

13:03

Moore and what this did to her and all that.

13:06

Martha, Anola, and another sibling

13:09

were traveling home from Chicago where

13:11

they attended an older sibling's graduation.

13:15

According to the Daily Standard, Harry was

13:17

in St. Louis for work. Genie told

13:19

Dateline that all the kids were playing outside

13:21

because it was a beautiful Sunday

13:24

afternoon. The kids were supposed

13:26

to go to church at 4.15 p.m. The

13:28

older kids started getting ready first.

13:31

Genie remembered seeing Beth in the backyard.

13:34

Genie called the younger children inside around 4

13:37

p.m. but Beth didn't come. They

13:39

looked for her and realized that she

13:41

wasn't there. The siblings searched

13:43

throughout their house and yard. And

13:46

then they started searching the neighborhood, calling

13:48

Beth's name. Their neighbors hadn't

13:51

seen Beth either. One of the children

13:53

then called the police. So again, I

13:55

think the one thing that we have to keep in mind

13:58

is the setting. Yeah. mid sixties,

14:01

small town. Everybody

14:03

is feeling like this is

14:05

such a safe place. I

14:07

get it. There's a little reservation with the motel,

14:10

but I think there was still that air

14:13

of safety. We can play

14:15

outside. There's no danger. There

14:18

are also safety in numbers, right? Cause all

14:20

the kids are out there playing. Well, I think

14:22

that's a good point. It's not as though

14:25

two year old Beth was just

14:27

let outside by herself, right?

14:29

There were a bunch of kids outside,

14:32

but she went missing right

14:34

around that time. Martha and Enola were

14:36

driving through town. Martha recalled

14:39

seeing a lot of police officers. She

14:41

thought something bad happened, but she

14:43

had no idea. It involves her family

14:46

until they got home and saw officers

14:48

at their house. It was said that Enola

14:51

lost consciousness when she learned

14:53

Elizabeth was missing. I

14:55

don't know how you can handle anything like that. You know,

14:57

they find out your

14:58

child,

14:59

let alone your youngest is now missing.

15:02

Well, I think different people are going to handle a different

15:04

way. You know, some people are going to faint.

15:06

Some people are going to lose all

15:10

of, you know, lose it emotionally. They're going to cry

15:12

and panic. And I'm sure

15:14

there are some people who are

15:17

going to be worried, but they're going to snap into

15:19

that kind of, what

15:21

do we do next mode? Right? Yeah. Yeah. You

15:23

know, everybody handles situations

15:27

differently. When Martha and Enola

15:29

got home, it had been about 30 minutes

15:31

since the kids realized Elizabeth

15:34

was gone. At first, Martha thought

15:36

Beth was somewhere in their neighborhood and would turn

15:38

up because it hadn't been all that long.

15:41

Her parents thought the same. As the

15:43

hours passed, the family became fearful

15:45

though, that something terrible had

15:47

happened to Elizabeth. And

15:49

you and I talk about a lot of missing persons

15:52

cases on unsolved.

15:54

And, you know, age plays a big

15:57

factor. If someone's 18 years old, 19 years.

15:59

And you're

16:00

not sure where they are. Okay.

16:03

That's one thing. Sure. If

16:06

they're 13, 14 and you don't know where they

16:09

are for 30 minutes. Okay. That's

16:12

something else. But when you're

16:14

talking about a two year old, you're

16:17

in a different stratosphere because

16:20

a two year old can't take care of

16:22

themselves at all. No. A two

16:24

year old doesn't make the decision to

16:26

go play over

16:28

at Lucy's house. And

16:30

forget to tell you, but

16:32

a 13 year old might. Sure they would.

16:34

So I think the sense of urgency

16:37

definitely differs

16:39

with the age of the, um,

16:41

the, the child that's gone missing

16:43

and the time. Yeah, of course. Now,

16:48

as time passes, the urgency is going

16:50

to increase with no matter what the

16:52

age is, the police canvas, the

16:54

entire neighborhood, Bobby Newton,

16:56

the current spokesman for the Cape

16:59

Girardeau PD told Dateline

17:01

that based on his research, the

17:03

entire department was deployed

17:05

to search for Elizabeth. The

17:08

police knocked on every single door in the

17:10

neighborhood. At one point there

17:12

were 300 volunteers helping

17:14

the police. So sounds like they

17:17

spring into action pretty quickly. Pretty

17:19

healthy number. Yeah. Not only the

17:22

police, but you know, to have 300 volunteers come

17:24

out. Now

17:26

you are talking about a two year old. And as

17:29

I've said many times, I think,

17:31

you know, when you're talking about very small kids, my

17:33

thought is, you know, people,

17:36

they want to jump in. They want to help because

17:39

you can sympathize

17:42

with that, especially if you have kids. What

17:45

would happen if my child went

17:47

missing? Well, I would hope that everybody

17:50

in the town would turn out. Right. So I'm

17:52

going to help these people out and hope that if

17:55

something bad ever happened to me, you know,

17:57

that the favor is returned by everyone and

17:59

being a little. There is a sense of urgency. Yes.

18:02

Yeah. And it also sounds like this is a

18:05

pretty tight knit community. You know,

18:07

that phrase was used. They knew everybody.

18:11

The search teams quickly focused on

18:13

the Mississippi River. A resident

18:15

of the neighborhood told the Daily Standard that

18:18

children like to play by the riverbank.

18:20

One of the neighborhood kids told him they would stand

18:23

on a rock and jump to another

18:25

rock about seven feet below

18:27

it, just inches above the water. Okay.

18:30

We all did a lot of Daredevil

18:32

type stuff. All the time. I'm

18:35

picturing this though, as, you know, seven

18:38

feet from one rock to

18:40

like a ledge below right above the Mississippi

18:42

River. It's a pretty big, uh, long jump. Does

18:45

not sound like the safest thing in the world

18:47

to do, but what's the thinking here

18:49

that maybe Elizabeth

18:52

was allowed or did go to the

18:54

river with the other kids sometime. Obviously

18:57

she was not jumping seven feet. No,

18:59

but you know how kids are. They like to do

19:01

what the older kids do. Sure. So they try.

19:06

And that's kind of where I was getting. Did she see

19:09

other kids doing this and thought,

19:12

okay, I'm going to go out to this rock,

19:14

fall off into the river. I'm

19:16

sure that thought crossed people's

19:18

minds. Back in June, 1965,

19:22

police chief Ervin Beard said that there

19:24

were indications that Elizabeth

19:27

had been to the river. He noted

19:29

that the spot where other kids like

19:31

to play was located under the bridge

19:33

at a deep point with fast

19:36

moving

19:37

water.

19:37

And I mentioned that, you know, that sounds like

19:40

a pretty dangerous activity and

19:42

it really does, but if you're 13, 14,

19:44

15, 16 years old and you fall in the river, do

19:49

you know how to swim? Can you make

19:51

it, you know, to the bank, even

19:53

though there's a little bit of current or whatever

19:56

it is? Yeah, probably. If

19:58

you're a two year old who. falls in

20:00

the Mississippi River. You

20:02

got no skills. No. Whatsoever.

20:05

You're either hoping for some luck or it's not

20:08

going to be good. The police worried that

20:11

Elizabeth wandered from home and fell

20:13

into the river. It was just a few

20:15

blocks away from the house, but

20:17

this theory was soon discounted because

20:21

Elizabeth would have had to cross several

20:23

streets, railroad tracks,

20:26

and climb down three embankments with 12, 10,

20:30

and 15 foot drops respectively

20:32

before she could have jumped on the flat rock

20:35

next to the water. So I think

20:37

once you learn all of those facts,

20:40

that sounds like it

20:42

would have been too much for a two

20:44

year old to traverse. Oh,

20:46

it might be too much for Mario to do. I'm

20:48

not even sure if I want to undertake

20:51

that. Yeah. But even with all

20:53

of that teams later dragged

20:55

the river in search of Elizabeth on

20:58

June 20th, 2023, Martha

21:01

made a Facebook post that provided

21:04

some clarification about this theory. Part

21:06

of the post reads Beth never

21:09

played down by the river. That was forbidden

21:12

and none of the gill kids would have

21:14

taken Beth down there. The original

21:16

case file in the Cape police department

21:19

has been missing for many years. No

21:21

one there has been able to answer who, what,

21:24

when, and where, when, when I finally

21:26

pushed hard enough, it was obvious. They had

21:28

misled me for many years saying the

21:31

file was not accessible at that time. Every

21:34

excuse you can think of different

21:36

depending on who I talked to. So

21:39

when the policeman who was interviewed commented

21:41

that some people thought Beth may have wandered

21:43

down to the river because the gill kids

21:46

played down there, he was 100% wrong. Wow.

21:49

I mean, that's pretty important information,

21:52

especially back then because it kind

21:54

of takes the focus off of the, maybe

21:56

somebody came by and snatched her to

21:59

Well, she probably just wandered down to the river

22:02

and most likely fell in. Yeah.

22:04

And I'm not saying that the police weren't checking

22:06

into different things, but

22:09

it does definitely make

22:11

a difference what the initial theory

22:14

is, right? If the initial theory

22:17

is that she fell into the river, well

22:19

then obviously they're going to spend more time

22:22

and resources in that direction,

22:25

in that area, around that area.

22:27

But Martha comes out later

22:30

and says, you know, nothing

22:32

that this guy said was correct. And

22:35

then, you know, I think once you find out

22:37

crossing several streets, a set

22:40

of railroad tracks and climbing

22:42

down three different 10 plus foot

22:45

embankments, that does not sound

22:47

like something a two-year-old can

22:49

do. That's like boss baby type

22:52

stuff. Big time. That you see in animated

22:54

movies.

22:55

Like that boss, baby. True

22:58

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Crime All the Time Unsolved is sponsored

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dot com slash all the time. As

26:23

investigators were searching for potential

26:26

leads and witnesses, Enola

26:28

remembered an incident that occurred a week

26:30

before Beth went missing. She

26:32

and some of the kids were back and forth carrying

26:35

things to the car. Beth was sitting

26:37

on the outdoor steps when Enola

26:39

walked outside. She saw Beth

26:42

talking to a woman in her vehicle.

26:45

They didn't recognize this woman, so

26:47

Enola called Beth back over. She

26:49

described the woman as middle-aged and

26:52

a little bit heavy set. According to

26:54

Dateline, her vehicle was a 1965

26:56

Ford Thunderbird. So

26:59

we got a little bit of information here. Possible

27:02

lead? Yeah, and I think it's

27:05

an interesting one because

27:07

right away,

27:08

your mind kind of goes to

27:11

this woman potentially

27:15

wanting a baby of her own and

27:18

snatching Beth. And

27:20

unfortunately, it has happened many, many

27:22

times. It also goes

27:25

to show you how easily

27:27

Beth approaches cars.

27:29

The Gills suspected that the woman

27:31

was staying in the motel, and they

27:33

turned out to be right. The police sought

27:35

out a woman who matched the description and

27:38

was driving a black and white Ford

27:40

Thunderbird. They learned she was traveling

27:42

with her husband and her parents. They

27:45

were selling purses in Cape

27:47

Girardeau. Martha and some other

27:49

family members recalled the woman selling

27:51

purses in the neighborhood before Elizabeth

27:54

went missing, and that a woman had actually

27:56

tried to call Beth over to her

27:58

car twice. The first time someone

28:01

else at the motel saw a woman talking

28:03

to Beth, the second incident occurred

28:06

outside the front yard. Both

28:08

couples were staying at the motel near

28:10

the Gilles house. The following

28:12

is the description of the first couple provided

28:15

by Dayline. The man was described

28:17

as a white male between 60 and 65

28:21

and a stylish dresser. The woman

28:24

was described as a white female with white

28:26

hair over 60 years old,

28:28

5'1 and 150 pounds. The

28:31

following is the description of the second

28:33

couple. The man was described as a white

28:35

male about 61 with a slender

28:38

build. The woman was described

28:40

as a white female believed to be the daughter

28:42

of the first woman. She was about

28:45

5'2 with red hair. On June 14,

28:47

a local car dealer called the

28:49

police to submit a tip. He confirmed

28:52

that a couple was staying in the motel behind

28:54

the Gilles house. The police learned

28:56

the two couples were using two vehicles.

28:59

The fourth Thunderbird and a light tan

29:02

Chevy truck. The car dealer

29:04

said the couple ordered a park for

29:06

their 1965 Chevy truck. He

29:08

told them it wouldn't arrive until June 14. They

29:11

said that was fine because they

29:13

were staying for a week. But when

29:15

he called the motel to tell them that

29:18

the park had arrived, he learned they had

29:20

checked out already. The police

29:22

learned that the mysterious couples

29:25

had checked out on June 13. From

29:27

the time Elizabeth went missing, according

29:30

to the Charlie Project, they left

29:32

their truck behind.

29:33

Ok.

29:34

So, some mystery

29:37

here. Sure is.

29:39

Because it was said this

29:41

was a 1965 Chevy truck, meaning it was

29:44

pretty new. Yeah. I get it.

29:47

Maybe it needed a part. It wasn't running. But

29:50

who would leave a brand new truck

29:53

behind? Nobody

29:54

I know unless you had a really good reason.

29:56

Yeah, and one of the reasons maybe

29:58

would be that you had

30:00

to get out of town very quickly because

30:04

you had just done something and the police

30:06

were potentially looking for

30:08

you. That's just scratching the surface though.

30:11

Yeah of the mystery because the

30:13

police learn that the couple was

30:16

using fake name and had changed

30:18

their license plates. The police

30:20

went to a gas station a block away from

30:23

the hotel and they ask if the

30:25

employees had seen the two couples. One

30:27

employee said he had seen them and

30:29

thought they were strange so he took

30:31

down their plate number for the fourth thunderbird

30:34

a few days later they return to the gas station

30:37

with a different license plate number

30:40

ended up having three different plates.

30:43

On their view well clearly they were up

30:45

to something it would seem that way

30:47

right i mean who goes through the trouble.

30:50

Putting on different license plates

30:53

unless you're up to something no good

30:56

maybe you got one of those revolving james

30:58

bond ones. But i doubt

31:01

according to the charlie project one

31:04

was an alabama plate numbered

31:06

thirty eight dash one nine four

31:08

three eight the second was a virginia

31:11

play numbered a twenty five

31:13

dash one three five six the

31:15

third was possibly a florida

31:17

play. Pretty interesting to me that

31:20

the people at the service station even like

31:23

caught that yeah so somebody

31:25

was very observant. But

31:27

this was also a new fourth underbird

31:30

so you know maybe they were looking at it thought

31:32

it's a really nice car so they

31:34

were looking it over. And then

31:36

they saw it again they were looking it over

31:38

and just happened to notice the license plates

31:41

the search for elizabeth ended late on

31:43

june sixteen. The daily standard

31:46

newspaper describe the search efforts

31:48

as a three day. Inch

31:51

by inch search of more than

31:53

a one square mile residential area

31:56

and one and a half miles of

31:58

riverfront the authority. utilize

32:00

police dogs, boats, aerial

32:03

photographs, and even a sea plane.

32:06

The local police chief kept everyone

32:08

working around the clock and many community

32:11

members volunteered to help. We said there was

32:13

as many as 300 who came out. I

32:16

mean, the police, the locals, they're all

32:18

doing everything they can to try to find

32:20

her. Yeah, this is not a situation

32:23

where, you know, you look at

32:25

the police and say, well, why didn't they

32:27

do this? Why didn't they do that?

32:30

Now granted, it was a two year old, and

32:32

you expect everyone to jump

32:34

into action very quickly. When

32:36

a two year old is reported missing, but

32:38

it sounds like they did everything they could do. Chief

32:41

Ervin Beard told a reporter, we

32:44

don't know any place else to search all

32:46

this area from the riverbank back

32:49

almost three fourths of a mile by

32:51

a mile and a half long has been gone

32:53

over extensively at least twice.

32:56

And you know, the paper described it as inch

32:58

by inch.

33:00

Very thorough.

33:01

Yeah, I can't imagine it was actually inch by

33:03

inch. But I understand what they're saying. The

33:06

police and the guilt home now believed

33:08

Elizabeth was abducted from the front

33:11

yard. Harry Gill pleaded with the potential

33:13

of doctor to return Elizabeth is

33:16

quoted by the Daily American Republic.

33:18

He said, if someone has taken

33:20

my baby, because they may not have

33:22

any children of their own, or for any reason,

33:25

I plead with them to return my child.

33:28

So it sounds to me like he was kind

33:30

of thinking something along the lines

33:33

of what I threw out as

33:35

a possibility, right? Right. Somebody

33:38

who wanted a child, maybe

33:40

they couldn't have one of their own.

33:42

They spotted this adorable

33:45

little two year old Elizabeth, and

33:48

they abducted her. They probably thought, well, this

33:50

family looks like they have a lot of kids.

33:53

So they can give up one. Yeah, I

33:55

don't know what they were thinking. Obviously,

33:57

we know that's not true. Right.

34:00

because I don't care if you got 10, 20 or 40, you

34:04

don't wanna give up any of them, never. The

34:06

police tracked the VIN numbers

34:08

on the two vehicles and learned they were purchased

34:11

in Lake Orion, Michigan. Still,

34:13

the police were unable to locate the two

34:16

couples. They also traced the purses

34:18

the couple was selling back to

34:20

the original manufacturer, but they

34:22

couldn't get any information on the people

34:24

who bought them. So, I mean, they really

34:26

are getting some good info. They

34:28

got a couple of plate numbers. They've

34:31

got VIN numbers. They even

34:33

know where these vehicles were purchased.

34:36

But it seems like these people did a really good job of

34:38

covering their trail. Well, my thought is

34:40

if they planned

34:42

ahead and had at the very

34:45

least three different plates, probably

34:48

all of which were bogus, then

34:50

they had thought this out well

34:53

in advance, maybe not down

34:55

to a specific child, either

34:58

that or they were up to a bunch of other illicit

35:01

stuff and just thought, well,

35:04

we're here, we're gonna grab this child. Exactly. Opportunity

35:07

presents itself and we're gonna take advantage of it.

35:10

Investigators circulated a missing

35:12

person's flyer that offered a $1,500 reward. The

35:16

flyer stated that Elizabeth was

35:18

believed carried away from front

35:21

of her home by nomadic type

35:24

person. That's probably something you've never seen

35:26

written on a flyer. No, I've

35:28

never even heard about that being put

35:30

on a flyer. But what else are they gonna

35:33

say? They don't have any information

35:35

about these individuals. They don't know

35:37

where they live. They don't know where

35:39

they're from. So it does seem

35:41

as though they're maybe traveling

35:44

around. Enola drove to

35:46

Michigan to talk to the car dealer

35:48

herself. He told her that those

35:50

people bought cars from him every two

35:52

to three years, but he hadn't seen

35:54

them recently. He promised to call

35:57

the police if they came back. So...

36:00

You know that makes it sound like to me

36:03

they were either at the

36:04

time living

36:07

in Michigan or

36:09

They live somewhere else but purposefully

36:12

drove to Lake Orion, Michigan To

36:15

buy their cars because they were

36:18

using the cars for some illicit

36:21

purpose That'd be a good way to go about that

36:23

right getting your cars in another

36:25

state So that can't be traced back to you,

36:28

but I want to talk about Enola for a minute

36:31

You know driving to Michigan to

36:33

track down this car dealer This

36:36

is the kind of stuff that you know

36:38

the families of a missing person Do

36:41

it this stuff consumes them. I

36:44

have to find my child. Where is my child? They're

36:47

willing to do just about

36:50

anything right follow up on

36:52

any lead Meet sketchy people

36:54

you hear about that in some cases that

36:57

you know in a normal situation They they

36:59

probably wouldn't do but they're

37:01

willing to do whatever it takes if

37:04

they think it's going to lead to any information

37:06

About you know the whereabouts of their

37:08

child it seemed like the

37:11

police had exhausted all their leads and

37:13

we are talking about 1965 here

37:16

right Much more difficult

37:18

back then for investigators to

37:20

track people down today With

37:23

all of our modern technology

37:25

it would be a little

37:27

easier a lot easier actually yeah I think so

37:29

there's CCTV there's databases

37:33

I mean you name it the

37:35

loss of Elizabeth was very difficult

37:37

for the whole family the kids talked

37:40

to each other about it But their parents

37:42

never spoke about it because it was

37:44

too hard for them And this is

37:47

something I think we've heard about many

37:49

many times You know what happens

37:53

when one child goes missing, but

37:55

there are other kids still at home

37:58

Yeah, that still need their mom and dad

37:59

But

38:00

their mom and dad are

38:02

going through something that maybe

38:05

doesn't allow them to be everything

38:08

that they were before. Yeah. And it's

38:10

kind of hard to blame them. We can't.

38:13

It's so difficult. According to Dateline,

38:15

one of the younger girls recalled how sometimes

38:18

she would walk home and see her father

38:20

crying at the table from the window. Martha

38:23

and Jeannie said Enola pushed down

38:25

her pain because she had

38:27

to take care of nine children. So

38:30

it sounds like, obviously, she still

38:32

had it. She was just locking it away.

38:35

Yeah, good at covering it up. Yeah.

38:38

And just trying to be there for the kids

38:40

and

38:41

maybe the

38:42

dad had a different

38:44

way. He had to express it. Over

38:47

a year later, on December 25, 1966, Harry

38:51

Gill wrote a letter to President

38:53

Lyndon Johnson requesting the FBI's

38:56

assistance in finding the couple

38:58

from the motel. Dateline published

39:01

excerpts from his letter. Harry

39:03

wrote, if these persons could be

39:05

found, I feel certain our little

39:07

girl will be found, or at least we can

39:09

learn what happened

39:11

to her.

39:12

And this is pretty interesting because you and I have

39:14

talked about this in different episodes about

39:17

what the FBI has

39:19

been allowed to get involved with

39:22

over the years when it comes to kidnappings

39:26

and abductions and different things like that. And it

39:28

has definitely changed throughout

39:31

the years. For the better,

39:33

right? They have more involvement?

39:36

Yes. I mean, I think there were times

39:38

where, unless it was proven

39:42

that someone had crossed eight lines,

39:44

they were forbidden to get involved,

39:47

and then at some point they could

39:49

if they were asked by

39:51

that jurisdiction. I don't know. It's changed

39:54

over the years. But you think about their skill level,

39:56

too, that they have knowledge base. And

39:58

the resources. Versus a

40:01

small town. I mean there is

40:03

no comparison. It's the FBI

40:06

all the way to the FBI

40:10

Deadly Nightmares the podcast from

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40:17

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So we wanted to tell you about Deadly Nightmares

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40:45

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40:47

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40:50

that that's an interesting aspect

40:52

I especially recommend when a stranger

40:54

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40:57

old Deborah Brown Who's trying to get

40:59

a fresh start and relocates with her

41:01

children from New York to Maine

41:03

She gets a new job and a new boyfriend

41:06

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41:08

night when a knock on the door Changes her

41:10

life forever. You gotta check that one out. So

41:12

listen to Deadly Nightmares wherever you

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listen to your podcasts in

41:17

January 1967 FBI

41:20

Director J Edgar Hoover replied

41:23

to Harry Gill He wrote that the

41:25

FBI added Elizabeth's case

41:27

to their files in April 1966 but

41:31

I must advise you that the FBI

41:34

is precluded from conducting active

41:37

investigation concerning missing persons

41:40

in the absence of evidence Indicating

41:42

a violation within our investigative

41:45

jurisdiction. So it kind of goes back to what I

41:47

was talking about Hoover

41:49

wrote that the FBI would keep in touch with

41:52

the local police department if

41:54

any evidence was discovered Involving

41:56

an abduction in violation

41:58

of the federal kidnapping

41:59

statute.

42:01

Harry Gill died of a heart attack

42:04

in 1970. So five

42:06

years later. And there's two things

42:08

for me here. Number one is,

42:10

you know, all too often, we're talking

42:13

about parents of a

42:16

missing child to die without

42:18

ever learning what happened to

42:21

that child. Now, normally,

42:24

not within five years. I mean, he was still

42:27

pretty young, I would have thought, in 1970.

42:31

But I just wonder, in some

42:33

of these situations, what kind

42:35

of toll does an experience

42:38

like this have on a person? Could

42:40

the stress and the anguish, you

42:43

know, decrease a person's lifespan? Absolutely.

42:46

I think it could. I think it could. Yeah. Now,

42:49

he could have had heart problems. He could have had

42:51

other issues. I don't know. But it

42:54

can't be easy. We know that. Right. That

42:57

same year, convicted murderer, Philip

42:59

Odell Clark wrote a letter to the local

43:01

sheriff informing him that he

43:04

accidentally ran over Elizabeth and

43:06

killed her on the day she disappeared.

43:09

He claimed he panicked and buried her

43:11

body because he didn't want to be

43:13

charged. Now, this is a theory

43:16

that comes up in many cases, where

43:18

you have someone disappeared.

43:20

Right.

43:21

Could it have been a terrible accident?

43:24

But the person decided to

43:26

cover it up, maybe because they were drinking

43:28

or for whatever reason, and

43:31

they buried the body. With a two

43:33

year old, you could definitely

43:35

see a two year old maybe wandering out

43:37

in the street. Yeah, you could see a two year

43:39

old wandering out to the street. But she

43:42

had other family members in the yard with

43:44

her. I would think you would hear the tires

43:48

breaking if there was breaking,

43:50

if there was breaking. And if

43:53

the car stopped, I think you would have

43:56

seen somebody get out and scoop

43:58

up Elizabeth if she was dead. And

44:00

not just because of the other kids playing out

44:02

in the yard. It's a residential neighborhood.

44:05

Yeah. So chances

44:07

are you think somebody

44:09

would have seen that happen. The

44:12

police took Clark out to show them where

44:14

he buried the body, but they couldn't

44:16

corroborate the information in his story.

44:19

They concluded that he likely made

44:21

it up so he could get out of prison, even

44:24

if it was just for a short time. And

44:26

we've heard that before. This is something

44:28

that they like to do.

44:29

Prisoners take responsibility

44:32

just to get a little bit

44:34

of time outside of prison. Yeah.

44:36

Well, number one, sometimes they just like to mess

44:38

with authority. Well, that's true too. But if

44:40

there's a chance that I can go on an

44:43

excursion, right? They're going to put

44:45

me in a van and they're going to take me and

44:47

I'm going to be able to walk outside. You

44:50

know, it's sick to think that somebody would mess

44:52

with the family like that. But

44:54

again, they're probably in prison for the

44:57

reason of not caring about

45:00

anybody anyway, so it shouldn't

45:02

surprise us. Plus sometimes I think they want

45:04

that extra spotlight. It can be

45:06

that too. Clark was murdered

45:08

in prison in 1977. Don't

45:12

have any details around it. But you know,

45:14

we talk about maybe this guy

45:16

wanting to get a little publicity. You

45:19

know what publicity you don't want in prison?

45:21

Well, I'm pretty sure you don't want it to come back that you

45:24

murdered a child. Yeah. You don't want it to be

45:27

known as a child killer. Now I'm not saying

45:29

he was murdered for that reason, but I'm

45:31

not taking it off the table either. The

45:33

police continued receiving tips

45:35

as the years passed. Several people called to

45:37

say that they saw the woman from

45:40

the motel trying to coax Beth

45:42

into her car in the days before

45:44

she went missing. There were some reports

45:46

of a person driving a radically in the

45:48

area around the time Beth

45:51

disappeared. A key witness came

45:53

forward in 1975. She

45:55

contacted the gills grandmother. She

45:58

claimed she was in a general. store, 45

46:01

minutes from Cape Girardot

46:04

and saw a man and a woman enter the store

46:06

with a little girl on June 13th. The

46:09

girl was crying for her mother.

46:11

The couple bought the girl some clothes

46:14

and left in a newer model Thunderbird.

46:17

That sounds promising. It does, but

46:20

you know here's my other thing, you know

46:22

how many people had

46:25

a 1960s Thunderbird?

46:28

I think it was a pretty popular car.

46:30

I think so. And how many

46:33

of those people, you know, went

46:35

to the store on a regular basis to buy

46:37

their their daughter some clothes?

46:40

I mean it's it's interesting

46:42

in the fact that it's only 45 minutes

46:45

away. It's on the same day

46:47

that Beth went missing.

46:49

So I

46:50

see how

46:52

people could make that connection, but

46:54

it's pretty tenuous. It's very

46:56

circumstantial.

46:57

And you know there's times that I

46:59

know I've watched my nieces or

47:02

nephews or friends,

47:04

kids, and at some point they want

47:06

their their mommy or their daddy,

47:09

you know, and they're little and you're like, you

47:11

know,

47:11

sorry kid. No,

47:13

but you know I mean you're like, you know. Right,

47:16

could have been an aunt and an uncle. Yeah. It could have been,

47:18

there's a lot of things it could have been. It

47:20

also could have been Beth's abductors.

47:23

I'm not saying it wasn't. I

47:26

think one of the big problems is

47:28

that, you know, I said right, this didn't come out

47:30

till 1975. That was ten

47:33

years. Martha told Dateline

47:35

that she called the police to report the tip

47:37

and they told her, well we can't do anything

47:40

with it now. And I don't really

47:42

know what they would have done

47:44

with it.

47:45

Right, there would have been no security

47:47

footage from the store, no way to track the

47:49

vehicle, and even today

47:51

I think if there

47:53

was a case from 2013 and

47:56

someone came forward today with that tip,

47:59

would the Security footage from

48:01

that store still be available

48:04

unlikely. It's probably pretty unlikely

48:06

now I'm sure they keep

48:08

it for some time, but I don't know 10 years 10

48:11

years worth of video That's

48:14

a lot of data. Yeah, and that's very expensive

48:16

to store. So I don't know Yeah,

48:18

you miss you miss out on the opportunity to

48:21

talk to the people that worked at that store that day

48:23

By waiting 10 years to come forward. Yeah

48:26

I mean, you're not gonna be able to track down

48:29

who was in that store 10 years ago. It's

48:31

just it's impossible retired

48:33

detective Jimmy Smith started

48:35

working best case in 2003 He

48:38

became aware of the case because someone

48:41

called to report a tip. He went to look

48:43

for Elizabeth's file but couldn't find it he

48:45

reached out to Elizabeth's

48:48

relatives and read papers from

48:50

the 60s to learn about the case

48:52

in 2010 Detective

48:55

Smith contacted the National Center

48:57

for Missing and Exploited Children and

48:59

opened a case for Elizabeth Her sisters

49:01

and mother entered their DNA

49:04

into the database And this

49:06

is pretty interesting because it dovetails

49:08

into The Green River Killer

49:11

case that we covered on on TCAT

49:13

this week where we talked about people

49:16

entering their DNA

49:19

into a database if

49:21

they have a You know missing

49:24

loved one and I asked the question how

49:26

many more people are going to be

49:29

doing that knowing the

49:31

fantastic work that they're doing with

49:33

genetic genealogy and Familial

49:36

DNA and in all of that stuff. I

49:39

feel like it should just be a standard practice and

49:41

it probably will be In

49:43

missing persons cases moving forward.

49:45

I would think for most people in August 2010

49:49

The FBI got involved and

49:51

reclassified Elizabeth's case

49:53

as a kidnapping Rebecca

49:55

Wu from the FBI st. Louis office

49:57

told Fox News the policy

49:59

and guidance for missing children have changed.

50:02

Whenever a young child goes missing, it's

50:05

presumed. The child has been abducted

50:08

until we investigate and it's

50:10

proven otherwise. That's because

50:12

if a young child really is abducted, time

50:15

is critical. Spot on. It's

50:17

absolutely spot on. Now

50:20

I'm not sure how long it took to

50:22

make that change, but it

50:25

makes perfect sense to me. Now she used the

50:27

words young child. I don't know if

50:29

there's a cutoff, but when you're

50:31

talking about a two year old, to

50:33

me, from a law enforcement

50:35

perspective, you would absolutely

50:38

have to assume that a two year

50:41

old has been abducted. They haven't

50:43

run away on their own,

50:45

most likely. I mean, I think you have to go

50:48

with what is most likely until

50:50

you prove that that's not

50:52

the case. Before this, her

50:55

disappearance was classified as a

50:57

missing child case. Martha

50:59

told Fox News in 2010, I

51:02

think somebody picked her up, someone who

51:04

wanted a child, or who picked

51:06

her up and sold her. I don't think

51:08

she wandered off. And I

51:10

don't think so either. No, I'm with

51:13

Martha. How far does

51:15

a two year old get in

51:17

the span of time that occurred

51:20

before people started looking for her? I

51:22

don't think that far. No, I mean,

51:25

I get it. Two year olds can move pretty fast,

51:28

faster than we think, but they're

51:30

not gonna get out of town. They're not gonna go

51:33

somewhere. They're not catching a train or a plane. Somebody

51:36

either picked her up and

51:38

kept her, or did something with her, or

51:41

some unfortunate event happened that

51:43

she was never found again, but I

51:45

just feel like that's unlikely. And to me,

51:48

when you talk about possibilities,

51:51

which we do a lot in unsolved cases,

51:53

because that's kind of what we have to do, I

51:56

always try to go with the most

51:58

likely possibility. And I'll be honest

52:00

with you, I would have thought

52:02

that maybe

52:05

Elizabeth falling into the river was

52:08

the most likely possibility until

52:10

you started to find out just

52:13

what it would have taken for her to

52:15

get to the river. Not that she couldn't

52:18

get to the river, but be so,

52:20

so difficult. Yeah, I think

52:22

it would have been pretty tough. In 2010,

52:25

family friend Roger Graham did an online

52:28

search and found a woman who was potentially

52:30

related to one of the individuals

52:33

from the motel. Martha told Dateline

52:35

that investigators spoke to the woman in

52:37

a nursing home. She had Alzheimer's

52:40

disease and wasn't able to help them

52:43

much. And we talk a lot about

52:46

what happens as time passes when

52:48

people die, potentially important

52:50

witnesses die. But here a potentially

52:54

very important witness developed

52:57

Alzheimer's and maybe

52:59

would have had some very relevant information

53:02

earlier on. We don't know. We don't.

53:05

The FBI did interviews with three potential

53:08

relatives. Detective Jimmy

53:10

Smith told CBS that

53:12

he traveled to Eastern Pennsylvania with

53:14

the FBI to speak to a woman. At

53:17

first, she was reluctant to talk, but

53:19

she said two of her family members

53:21

were involved in the investigation of

53:24

the disappearance of a baby a long time

53:26

ago. A relative and his wife said

53:29

he was held and questioned all day because

53:32

their vehicle was seen in the area where the child

53:34

went missing. I would think

53:37

your ears would definitely perk up

53:39

when you heard that. But Smith

53:42

said he couldn't find any record of

53:44

a couple being questioned in Elizabeth's

53:46

case. So, you know, that

53:49

begs the question, could

53:51

she have been talking about another

53:53

child

53:54

who was abducted? Potentially. Smith

53:56

told CBS in 2014, if this is the. lead

54:00

we're talking about. If this lady

54:02

passes away or another

54:04

family member passes away, that

54:06

could be the end of it. It's very frustrating.

54:09

And again, like I said, that's what happens when a case

54:12

is 50 plus years

54:14

old. Time is against you. The family

54:17

decided to publicize best case

54:19

as much as they could. They started a Facebook

54:21

group and appeared on the Today

54:23

Show in September 2010. Martha

54:26

and her siblings have submitted their DNA

54:29

to Ancestry and 23andMe

54:32

in hopes of connecting with Elizabeth one

54:35

day. Martha Hamilton also

54:37

works with Team Hope, which is part

54:40

of the NCMEC. And

54:42

we said this right up front, Gibbs,

54:44

but Elizabeth's family believes

54:47

that she is still alive, but that

54:49

she just doesn't know her real

54:52

identity. They think someone abducted

54:54

her and raised her as their own child.

54:57

How would that change your outlook on your life,

55:00

finding out that who you thought your parents

55:02

were weren't

55:04

and that you were kidnapped? Well, and

55:06

you would be finding it out in

55:08

your sixties.

55:09

Right.

55:10

So essentially living your entire

55:13

life in a lie

55:15

and then learning that you had, you know,

55:18

all these siblings and this

55:20

whole other family that was your

55:22

real family. Martha told CBS

55:25

that she hoped to use the power of the internet,

55:27

social media and national news

55:30

outlets to speak about Beth's case saying,

55:32

I have come to the conclusion that we cannot

55:35

find Beth, but she might be

55:37

able to find us if we're

55:39

easy to find. And that makes

55:41

a lot of sense. You know, they are trying

55:44

to put themselves

55:46

everywhere they can and put

55:49

this case front and center in

55:51

the hopes that maybe

55:54

she would see it. Maybe she would

55:56

have a memory that

55:58

gets jogged or. you know, something

56:01

comes back to her, who knows? Possibility.

56:04

She was so young, though. She was. I

56:06

think that's gonna be

56:08

tough. And yet, I wonder if she's even

56:11

still alive. Yeah, yeah, there's

56:13

no way to know. They also hope that seeing

56:16

flyers or images online

56:18

will jog someone's memory and they might come

56:20

forward if they've seen Elizabeth

56:22

before. Or hearing about the case

56:25

could cause someone to question their family

56:27

history and perhaps

56:29

submit their DNA to one

56:31

of the databases. So, you

56:33

know, think about that. You know, we're talking

56:36

about DNA all the time. So,

56:38

this family is submitting their

56:41

DNA

56:42

to all these different sites, right?

56:44

Well,

56:45

what if Elizabeth is out there,

56:47

has no idea what

56:50

happened to her when she was two years old and

56:53

decides that she wants to do ancestry?

56:56

Yeah. She submits her DNA to one

56:58

of these databases and

57:01

somehow that's what solves

57:03

the mystery. Yeah, all of a sudden she realizes

57:05

she has all these immediate

57:08

family members. I don't know, have

57:10

you ever did one of those? 23andMe or

57:12

one of those DNA tests? Yeah, I think

57:15

we did Ancestry.com. Yeah. I

57:17

talked about it, right? Because it came back much different than what I thought.

57:19

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah. It's just amazing

57:22

how all of a sudden it just starts linking you to all

57:24

these people.

57:25

Yeah, I never did the

57:27

family tree type part.

57:30

I just did the one that kind of tells you. How

57:32

you're made up. Yeah, the

57:34

makeup of you, I guess. Right.

57:38

It was just much different than I had expected

57:40

it to be. It always is,

57:42

I hear that a lot. About two

57:45

dozen women have submitted their DNA

57:47

thinking that they could be Elizabeth.

57:50

Most of these women were adopted or

57:52

orphaned at a young age and were trying

57:55

to find their family. Unfortunately, they

57:57

were not Elizabeth, but the team has been

57:59

able to help. one woman find her

58:02

family. So that in and of itself

58:04

is pretty amazing. Yeah, I think so.

58:07

Martha told Dateline about her process

58:09

for vetting the women who came forward. She

58:12

said, the first thing I do is find out their age

58:14

and ask if they have any pictures of when

58:16

they were younger. We talk about the circumstances.

58:19

Why would they think they might be?

58:22

Did they have any childhood memories that were

58:24

odd or unusual? And if everything checks

58:26

out, then I get in touch with law enforcement

58:29

and have them arrange DNA done

58:31

through the law office near them. And

58:34

I think if anybody came forward and said,

58:36

I could be Elizabeth,

58:39

unless you can just

58:42

absolutely vet it out

58:44

that they're not, you're

58:47

going to want to check. I think so. Enola

58:50

Gill passed away in 2017. So

58:53

again, both parents

58:56

passed without ever finding

58:58

out what happened to their

59:00

youngest child. In 2019, Detective

59:04

Jimmy Smith told Dateline the

59:06

case was at a standstill. He retired

59:09

in 2016 and was the only

59:12

one actively working the case. Smith

59:15

still believes that the couple from the motel

59:17

are the ones responsible for Elizabeth's

59:19

disappearance. And I think to him

59:21

this remains the best lead in the case.

59:24

And I'm actually kind of leaning that way too,

59:27

Gibbs. I really am. Yeah. Seems

59:29

pretty strong. Yeah. You know, multiple

59:32

people seeing this

59:34

car and this woman kind

59:36

of talking to Elizabeth, maybe

59:39

even trying to coax her to

59:41

the car. All of a sudden

59:44

they vanish, they leave behind this brand

59:47

new truck or this very new

59:49

truck. I don't know. I don't

59:51

know. It seems fishy.

59:53

But let's say that

59:55

it was this couple. But

59:57

we know that the older

59:59

couple... that was with them. They

1:00:01

would not be alive. They were in their 60s.

1:00:04

That's true. They would be like 120

1:00:07

today and they're

1:00:09

not going to be. And then,

1:00:12

you know, the younger couple, even

1:00:14

if they were in their 20s, that

1:00:16

would mean today they would be in their

1:00:18

80s. But they

1:00:20

could have been a little bit older. They might have been, they might

1:00:22

be in their 90s. So we don't know if

1:00:25

they're still alive. And if they are, what do they

1:00:27

really remember? Yeah. In June

1:00:29

of this year, Martha told Dateline, I

1:00:31

won't stop looking for her. But if

1:00:34

she's out there and I believe she is, we

1:00:36

have to be where she can find us. And

1:00:38

that's why I keep the case active.

1:00:41

Elizabeth Ann Gill would be 61 years

1:00:43

old today. She's been missing for 58

1:00:46

years. At the time of her

1:00:49

disappearance, she was two foot,

1:00:51

six inches tall and weighed

1:00:53

just 22 pounds. She had light brown

1:00:55

hair and blue eyes. She had a chicken

1:00:58

pox scar on her right elbow

1:01:00

about the size of a quarter, but

1:01:02

it could have shrunk since then. She was

1:01:04

wearing a green white checked blouse

1:01:07

and was carrying a pail of sand. You

1:01:09

can go on the NCMEC

1:01:12

website to view age progress photos

1:01:15

of what Elizabeth could look

1:01:17

like today. If you have any information

1:01:19

about Elizabeth Gill's disappearance,

1:01:22

you can call the Cape Girardeau

1:01:24

Police Department at 573-335-6621 or the NCMEC

1:01:27

at 1-800-LAWS. So in wrapping up this case, it's

1:01:29

a sad one. Anytime

1:01:38

you're talking about a two year old

1:01:40

who goes missing, you think about

1:01:42

the family, the main older

1:01:45

brothers and sisters, some of

1:01:47

whom were at the house that

1:01:49

day. And that's where you get into

1:01:51

the area of guilt

1:01:54

and living with that guilt.

1:01:57

If I had just done this, if I had a... checked

1:02:00

on her at this time. Pay better

1:02:02

attention. Yeah. I mean, that's going

1:02:05

to happen. I'm sure the

1:02:08

mom and the dad

1:02:10

both have guilt and we

1:02:13

know the dad died very young. Part

1:02:15

of that could have, could have been because

1:02:18

of what happened. Yeah, most likely. I don't know.

1:02:21

I just think when you look at it kind of

1:02:23

all the way around, so

1:02:25

tough on the family. And I think about how

1:02:28

tough it would have been at the time

1:02:30

and right after, but now fast

1:02:33

forward 58 years. Yeah.

1:02:36

Wow. And they are still trying

1:02:39

everything they can think of to

1:02:41

find their youngest sibling,

1:02:45

you know, their Facebook pages, they're putting

1:02:47

them their information and everywhere

1:02:50

they can, they're submitting their DNA. I

1:02:52

just hope like everybody's listening

1:02:55

goes out to that NCM EC site

1:02:58

and look at the photos. Yeah. Maybe

1:03:00

you know who that person is, you know,

1:03:02

maybe you, oh wow, that's, that's my neighbor.

1:03:05

Um,

1:03:06

it's also good sight to go out to every now and then just

1:03:09

to look at other missing

1:03:11

persons and maybe you recognize

1:03:14

somebody else. See what they look like today or what they

1:03:16

think they might look like today. Yeah.

1:03:18

I think that's a good point. And

1:03:20

you know, just shedding light on these cases,

1:03:24

you never know who might be listening

1:03:26

and could it jog

1:03:28

a memory? Could it take

1:03:30

them back to

1:03:32

something that they heard and they

1:03:35

weren't really sure

1:03:36

what it meant at the time,

1:03:38

but now it comes into focus

1:03:41

a little bit because

1:03:43

of some additional information that

1:03:45

they now know. I mean,

1:03:47

the more publicity, the better on

1:03:49

these types of, of missing

1:03:52

persons case. I already told you what

1:03:54

I thought my, my most likely theory

1:03:56

is, but obviously there, there

1:03:59

are.

1:03:59

number of things

1:04:01

that could have happened. Is it possible,

1:04:03

you know, that she did somehow

1:04:06

make it to the river, fell in, never

1:04:09

found her body or went somewhere

1:04:11

else and, and they just never found

1:04:13

her body. Yeah, it's possible.

1:04:16

It doesn't seem all that

1:04:18

likely, but you can't say it's impossible.

1:04:21

I don't think, is it possible that,

1:04:23

you know, she ran out into the, the

1:04:25

street somewhere and somebody hit her and

1:04:28

then covered it up? Yeah. It's

1:04:31

possible. But again, go

1:04:33

back to residential area,

1:04:35

probably a lot of people, it was

1:04:37

a Sunday. Yeah. And you got to take

1:04:40

that into account. So I just

1:04:42

don't know. These people are so mysterious

1:04:45

with the changing of the license plate and

1:04:47

leaving the truck behind that, you

1:04:49

know, to me, they were up

1:04:51

to something. And if it wasn't

1:04:54

abducting Elizabeth, then

1:04:57

I don't know what it was. Well, they checked out

1:04:59

a day early, the day that she went missing. So

1:05:02

it all kinds of lines up. There's just

1:05:04

no way to prove it. No. And

1:05:06

I don't know if there will ever

1:05:08

be a way to prove it

1:05:11

unless Elizabeth learns who she really is

1:05:13

and maybe is able

1:05:15

to fill in, you know, some information,

1:05:18

obviously who she lived with, who raised her,

1:05:20

you know, stuff like that. I'm really hoping that somebody

1:05:22

recognizes the photo and then finds

1:05:25

out that this is who that lady is, you know, it would

1:05:27

be amazing. It would be. It'd be absolutely

1:05:30

amazing to find out that she's

1:05:32

still alive. Now I'd still be heartbroken

1:05:35

for the family and overjoyed

1:05:38

at the same time. Cause they would find

1:05:40

out that their, their little sister was

1:05:42

alive, but then they would,

1:05:45

they would have missed out on 58 years with

1:05:47

her. So that

1:05:49

would be bittersweet, but

1:05:52

probably more to the sweet

1:05:54

side. I think so. Cause you're finding out what happened

1:05:57

to her and she's still alive. And you have

1:05:59

time left. To spend with her. Yeah, absolutely

1:06:02

But that's it for our episode on Elizabeth

1:06:04

and Gil. We got some voicemails Gibbs you and check

1:06:06

those out. It's here

1:06:08

I'm liking giving just

1:06:10

a random quick call

1:06:13

to give you guys a little bit of shit I

1:06:15

was listening to your I can't remember

1:06:17

which one it is now. I'm

1:06:18

just at work, but the one where the

1:06:21

The Canadian in Kamloops

1:06:24

goes missing in the winter and you're

1:06:26

talking about how you don't miss if his top

1:06:28

was warm And he but he was wearing shorts. He wasn't prepared

1:06:30

for the weather I just like to make a comment

1:06:33

that you're not Canadian You don't understand

1:06:35

that that is completely

1:06:36

appropriate for any time of

1:06:38

the year whether it's minus 40 or You

1:06:41

know plus 10 Celsius

1:06:44

It is very much Believable

1:06:46

that he went

1:06:46

out on his own wearing just shorts for

1:06:49

Canadian The thing

1:06:51

it like they know it sounds ridiculous But the thing

1:06:53

that we go

1:06:53

through is we go through plus 10 and we start

1:06:55

wearing shorts and as soon as it starts getting Minus

1:06:57

like it's getting It's

1:07:00

difficult for us as it does

1:07:02

to you because we just went from Anyways

1:07:11

So

1:07:11

what you're saying is you acumen what

1:07:15

did you say acclimate

1:07:19

Baby maybe not. I don't think

1:07:22

It was closer the second time around. Yeah

1:07:25

first. I thought you said acumen And

1:07:28

then you said something Acclimate

1:07:31

I can't Deny or

1:07:33

confirm for so here's

1:07:35

my take I get it. You're

1:07:38

more custom to the cold Yeah, but

1:07:40

I still think it's correct To

1:07:44

say if you go outside

1:07:46

for an extended period of time in Below

1:07:50

zero weather wearing shorts, you're

1:07:53

not wearing appropriate attire I

1:07:56

still think that is a true statement.

1:07:58

The keyword is appropriate appropriate.

1:08:01

Hi Mike and Gibby. I just left a message and it

1:08:04

was absolutely horrible. My name is Amelia. I'd

1:08:10

like to thank you for being here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm

1:08:12

so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to

1:08:14

be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy

1:08:16

to be here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy to be

1:08:18

here. I'm so happy to be here. I'm so happy

1:08:20

to be here. I want to thank you guys for being here.

1:08:22

Please give me a little bit of a shift for making

1:08:25

a comment about him wearing shorts in

1:08:28

winter and how he wasn't prepared for

1:08:30

it to be out there in the

1:08:32

snow. I'd like to just inform you that we are Canadian

1:08:34

and we are strong.

1:08:35

Definitely shorts is appropriate attire

1:08:38

for the winter. All

1:08:41

the videos that you see of people jumping the snowboard ass naked and not getting cold,

1:08:45

those are Canadians. I'm

1:08:48

a polar bear, I guess.

1:08:50

But definitely weather appropriate

1:08:52

to be wearing shorts

1:08:53

in a jacket. That

1:08:55

kind of weather. Yeah, keep

1:08:57

your own time taken.

1:08:58

So I think this is the first,

1:09:00

Gibbs. I've added two

1:09:03

different voicemails together to

1:09:05

make them one voicemail. I made these

1:09:07

separate on purpose because I

1:09:09

wanted everybody to hear the first one to

1:09:12

hear the revisions,

1:09:15

as you would say, acclimated.

1:09:19

But again, I'll

1:09:22

say the same thing I said after the first

1:09:24

one. Holding true

1:09:27

and steady. Yeah, I get

1:09:29

it. People wear shorts. I

1:09:31

wear shorts in the winter when it's

1:09:33

very cold. But only

1:09:36

if I'm just walking to my truck, which

1:09:38

I've already warmed up, to

1:09:41

drive somewhere, that I'm then going

1:09:44

to walk into a store that is

1:09:46

warm.

1:09:48

I'm assuming if I were to get lost

1:09:50

while wearing those shorts, I

1:09:53

would quickly discover that I am not

1:09:55

dressed appropriately. I

1:09:57

mean, look, I've hiked 20 miles both

1:09:59

ways.

1:10:00

No shoes, no clothes on. You forget it's

1:10:02

uphill both ways. You hiked both

1:10:05

ways at the same time. Yeah. I

1:10:07

got you. Of course, but you know, I get

1:10:09

it. Wear leggings or

1:10:12

sweats or something that's called out. And

1:10:14

a toque.

1:10:15

And a toque. Don't forget your toque. You gotta have a

1:10:17

toque. That's right. Toque it up.

1:10:20

All right. That is it for another episode of True Crime All

1:10:22

The Time Unsolved. So for Mike, And Gibby. Stay

1:10:25

safe and keep your own time ticking. Thank

1:10:30

you.

1:11:02

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