0:34

everyone and welcome depths of to

0:36

eighty of the true crime all the time unsolved

0:39

podcast on my ferguson and with

0:41

me as always is my partner and true crime my

0:43

gibson give me how are you to ma'am do well

0:45

by yourself i'm doing very well

0:47

and i just got done according

0:50

episode three hundred of true

0:52

crime all the time as amazed it is amazing

0:55

when you think about where we started

0:57

how we started and how far we've com

1:00

that's really cool they're worried twenty way

1:02

on this podcast yeah we'll be

1:04

there before you know i'm so part one

1:07

of samuel little thou

1:09

right now on true crime all time

1:11

go check that out what a

1:13

despicable human be officer

1:16

it

1:17

this is brutal the just

1:20

hours this guy

1:22

who hook whatever he

1:24

wanted from whoever he wanted

1:27

and he just didn't care about

1:29

anything other than his own gratification

1:33

let's go ahead and give our patriarch shout

1:35

outs we had courtney perry a

1:37

corny daisy seven tall lanky

1:39

daisy tell c s was going on

1:41

kelsey jeremy blood jumped out

1:44

higher than our highest level as awesome jeremy

1:46

reagan gibbons a given story

1:48

to realm of thrill daniel jackson

1:51

the jackson tracy line will

1:53

thank you tracy gary you will receive a gary

1:55

lisa cochran ibiza stephanie

1:58

gatchell awesome stuff the

2:00

thera cabot they serve mandy

2:02

serio serial said

2:04

trina sanders who are sanders tim

2:06

sober ah thank you so for art

2:09

of a sorry and or what a far

2:11

he is that okay i don't either through

2:13

can are all the top ah man there's

2:15

a t k all the time

2:17

suffer with melissa spencer

2:19

aimless a sigh and turner a

2:21

thinks i am course the court

2:24

amanda shanty for say that

2:26

amanda d r's was of

2:28

oz deborah windsor eight ever and

2:30

last but not least angela poco

2:33

are the key angela and then if we go back

2:35

into the vault this

2:37

, we selected amy la fuente

2:40

upon say thank you we

2:42

appreciate the new support the continued

2:45

support we also had pay pal donations

2:47

from nora l l c a

2:49

nora paris major was all major

2:52

and i believe gibbs what is

2:54

probably the biggest pay pal donation

2:57

we've ever received and that was from

2:59

joe peterson of shows you are

3:01

amazing yes that is super super

3:03

awesome hi buddy are you ready

3:05

to get into this episode of true crime all

3:07

the time on so i'm writing we're

3:09

talking about the murder of lc

3:11

frost there were headed

3:13

to england then we talked

3:15

about this on our patron episode

3:18

the taping later in the we then

3:21

it just so happens that for

3:24

we began taping we heard

3:26

the news that elizabeth

3:28

had passed away yeah though all

3:30

of our thoughts go out to

3:33

you everyone impacted by her death

3:36

he was ninety six years old she was

3:38

and lived an amazing lot seventy

3:41

years on the threat bayonets

3:43

and so long time some believe they

3:45

have been on a throne from didn't appear to times

3:48

you have them for different reasons exactly

3:51

though getting into this case l

3:53

c frost was born on february

3:55

seventh nineteen fifty one the

3:57

parents arthur and edith frosts

3:59

in the village of love said in

4:02

the town of wakefield england lc

4:05

had two siblings her little brother

4:07

collins an an older

4:09

sister named lc

4:11

was described as intelligence

4:14

bookish and pretty he was

4:16

also known as a model south

4:18

the said to have been a good

4:20

girl didn't have any boyfriends

4:23

it's a time of her murder she does have

4:25

a lot of friends he attended

4:27

wakefield high school for her lc

4:30

was inspired to be a nurse after

4:33

she completed school the

4:35

year a plan he did the

4:37

like she had a very healthy circle

4:40

of friends that's

4:42

you did go to an all girls' school she does does

4:44

that make it tougher have

4:47

a boyfriend no

4:49

i never been to the school

4:51

where it wasn't boys and girls

4:53

there same time the i would think it would

4:55

think it would to means i'm guessing maybe

4:58

the all boys school was cross the

5:00

street or something like that i

5:02

found it interesting that see to like i

5:04

was was bookish focus

5:08

and pretty i know you are very very

5:10

pretty industry according

5:12

to the mirror lc frost was just

5:15

fourteen years old when she was stabbed

5:17

to death in a wig sealed england

5:19

railway underpass in october

5:22

nineteen sixties at the time

5:25

was he lived in wakefield with her

5:27

mother father little

5:29

brother according to the daily telegraph

5:32

on friday october it she attended

5:34

a use dance with her best friend

5:37

the classmates works she played vinyl

5:39

record albums the also played

5:42

some table table

5:44

tennis the are like table tennis too

5:47

but as know what hit me what hit me was

5:49

the vinyl record albums

5:52

how does nineteen sixty five that's

5:55

why he had back dance what i find

5:57

so interesting is that

6:00

rhino records made a comeback

6:02

the now they're quite sought after they

6:04

really are if you got a big collection

6:07

laying around somewhere vinyl records

6:10

they could be worth a boatload of month

6:13

don't get rid of

6:14

they don't get me wrong i love the fact

6:16

the weekend stream just about any some

6:18

we once but there was something

6:20

so income wow

6:24

the fact that you had to put the record

6:26

on yeah had to lift the

6:28

need a lot and he had to put it

6:30

where you wanted it there was no button

6:33

no actually later i think there was

6:35

a button yeah that would move the needle

6:38

for you but honestly not

6:40

initially and none of us will have had that anyway

6:43

remember going out of the buys specific needles

6:45

you wanted a better quality sounds you

6:47

get these like diamond tip needles

6:49

and no

6:51

no i didn't grow up swank you like

6:53

uses we just we just rolled

6:56

with whatever needle came with iraq

6:58

and with the kmart record players my

7:00

mom bought me richie

7:03

rich over here is going and as i fi

7:05

store to get himself a diamond needles

7:08

right gimme gimme that good quality needles i hear

7:10

that just a little bit better so they're

7:12

listening to records are playing table

7:14

tennis for best friend

7:16

said that lc was too so the

7:19

dance what you are playing

7:21

dj then on saturday

7:23

october nine in the afternoon

7:25

aussi went sailing with some other

7:27

children from her school apparently

7:30

her school had a sailing club which

7:32

is not something we

7:35

have around here we wouldn't our even

7:37

know what think about of we had

7:39

a cylinder like celica where we gonna sell the

7:41

as you say where what body of water

7:43

having a sale on we also didn't

7:45

have lacrosse growing up and now that's

7:47

everywhere you can play

7:49

that pretty much anywhere you

7:52

want it does take a certain

7:54

kind of geography to have a sailing

7:57

club i am saying it really does they

7:59

mad as the boathouse that

8:02

afternoon at two pm well

8:04

see had worn a floral

8:07

pattern dress the yellow

8:09

card again and a red windbreak

8:12

then had her sailing clothes

8:14

and shoes and heard duffel the

8:16

ceiling club took out some local scouts

8:19

to teach them how to sail also

8:21

he was reportedly excited to teach

8:24

they wing skills to these kids

8:26

the filled out into the horbury

8:29

the for several hours when

8:32

the students return to the morning also

8:34

he was last seen leaving the boathouse at

8:36

four fifteen pm headed

8:38

in the direction of her home the

8:41

walked along the river canal and then

8:43

entered a railway tunnel investigators

8:46

believe that this was when

8:48

lc was attack then

8:50

drag to her final resting spot

8:53

the war

8:54

that after her attacks she staggered

8:56

there

8:57

inside down in that

8:59

location before dying of

9:01

blood loss for here's a young

9:03

girl that had a good night

9:06

the night before had a dance the

9:08

next day she goes our selling has a great time

9:11

then also i'm in her life isn't the

9:13

in to me neither one of these

9:16

theories that's good obviously

9:19

they both in with her death

9:21

the either she was attacked

9:23

brutally killed in then dragged

9:26

war

9:27

the was attacked and then you

9:29

know staggered to a spot

9:31

and then blended we'll

9:33

see his body was found by thomas

9:36

brown who's walking with his

9:38

shoulder and and dogs they were on a road

9:40

that overload twenty six rows

9:42

of steps no locally

9:44

as the a b c railway step

9:47

according to the birmingham post

9:50

thomas brown said by saw

9:52

a girl at the bottom of the steps i

9:55

thought she was crying i went down

9:57

and spoke to her i asked if

9:59

she was all

9:59

right

10:00

then i realized she was dead i

10:02

saw blood on her head and face

10:05

hamas left the scene and informed

10:07

a nearby police officer

10:09

about what he had sound the police

10:12

run the scene fairly quickly oh

10:14

she's father had to identify her

10:16

body that the mortuary this

10:19

is something that in a we have talked

10:21

about many times i just can't

10:24

imagine the anguish that

10:26

apparent ceos number

10:28

one finding out of your child's death

10:30

pro putin to go in have

10:32

to identify the body in

10:35

i just don't even know how you must

10:37

drop that

10:38

drink

10:39

i don't i do it and don't

10:42

the your little girl lane they're like that lc

10:45

sister was eighteen at the time

10:47

and married with a son she

10:50

found out when the press knocked on

10:52

her door again something you can't

10:54

imagine right open up your door with the

10:56

press outside telling you that

10:58

your this is dead

11:01

the murdered

11:02

my question is how does the press find

11:04

out so quickly the

11:06

for the police

11:08

has the chance to notify

11:11

every wine or her

11:13

father has a chance to call her on the phone

11:16

and say look corny this is what is hop

11:19

seems like they got their news awful

11:21

quick or the notification

11:24

was delayed i was his older brother

11:26

was six at the time he later

11:28

talked about the chaos in the

11:30

news reports

11:32

that

11:33

the only secure then one

11:36

to learn that you've lost her sister

11:38

then you'd to

11:40

to see and hear things on the news

11:43

wow you know what police saying

11:45

may have happened to her i'm

11:48

sure the parents shielded him but

11:50

still we all know kids

11:52

are going to find a way to see things

11:55

especially today i with the internet

11:57

and phones and and things like that

11:59

it was later determined that l

12:02

c had been stabbed five times

12:04

to death on her way home for body

12:07

placed on the last step after

12:09

the staff when your body was inspected

12:13

the thousand found stab wounds

12:15

to her head hand and back

12:17

in it was one of the killers brutal stabs

12:20

the pierced

12:21

oh she's hot there had been

12:24

no sexual assault the post

12:26

mortem revealed

12:27

that lc a died from shot

12:30

the blood loss following

12:32

be violent attack we've

12:34

already kind of talked about it but you

12:36

know it is a nightmare situation

12:39

this girl after having

12:42

a great night agree day she's

12:44

walking through this tunnel on

12:46

her way home probably singing

12:48

to herself this you

12:50

can a euphoric over the

12:52

last couple of days the

12:54

man is surprised by

12:57

an attack no one's around

13:00

the hear her screams for pleas

13:02

for how import all the

13:04

happen to a fourteen year old girl harper

13:07

human according

13:09

to the mirror scotland yard since

13:11

two detectives from their murder

13:13

squad to assist in finding the killer

13:16

the wakefield police and detective

13:19

spent several hours on the nine

13:21

looking for the murder weapon and continued

13:24

for several days after that the

13:26

weapon was thought to be i heavy

13:28

bowie type not the day for

13:32

and a half inch long by three

13:34

quarters of an inch wide boy the

13:37

healthy knife it is the you

13:39

time you use the term

13:41

bowie knife most people

13:44

they know anything about knives in

13:47

picture one of the right it's

13:49

a fairly big know i

13:51

mean this is not a folding pocket

13:54

knife know this is a fixed

13:56

blade that we

13:59

need yeah

14:00

the she

14:01

back in the day they would have used a leather

14:04

seats the detectives

14:06

received reports about a team

14:08

that had taken pictures that day in

14:11

and around the area before elsie's

14:13

body was found the apparently

14:15

was seen their from about two thirty

14:17

pm to four pm there

14:20

were other reports and sad he laughed

14:22

around three thirty pm regardless

14:25

after the film was developed the

14:27

only showed pictures of trying these

14:29

pictures didn't give the police any additional

14:31

help the the investigation

14:34

sure the police were disappointed that the

14:37

that years in show them anything useful they

14:40

don't ask if they don't check through never going

14:42

to know so least they're working every lead at this

14:44

point i'm sure this team

14:46

was scared to death police

14:48

are saying you were in

14:51

the area when this girl was most likely

14:53

kill gives your pictures it

14:55

turns out that he was after taking

14:57

pictures of trained image

15:00

that's what the pictures prove yes

15:02

sir according to the mere

15:04

this tragedy sparked a huge police

15:07

manhunts in which twelve thousand

15:09

people from across the county most

15:11

of them men and boys were question

15:14

about their whereabouts that it that

15:17

is a boatload of people it

15:19

really is the question twelve

15:21

thousand a some busy police officers

15:23

yeah and it's was said that the police

15:26

ended up with over twelve hundred

15:28

written state that have a carpal

15:30

tunnel after that there's a lot of work

15:32

for sure no doubt about that the

15:34

local please continue to search

15:36

for the murder weapon they even brought

15:39

in divers from the leads police

15:41

department to search the waters

15:43

they also brought in tracking dogs

15:45

to search the land and swamps

15:48

for the murder weapon that's

15:50

big they to find

15:52

the murderer

15:53

there's a huge first step

15:55

in an investigation

15:57

doesn't mean you he'd get there without

15:59

it

15:59

the

16:00

the man the didn't help the

16:02

have it quite often

16:04

it can provide a wealth of clues

16:07

information the week after

16:10

aussies murder

16:11

according to the sunday mercury

16:14

on saturday october sixteen

16:16

nineteen sixty five the week

16:18

after aussies murder seventy

16:21

police officers along

16:23

with

16:24

seventy citizen

16:26

the locals

16:28

who are also in the

16:30

area where her murder current

16:32

on the day and near the

16:35

time of her death

16:36

we're never did

16:38

the events of that debt this

16:40

is very fascinating yeah first

16:43

of all to fun

16:44

seventy people

16:46

the were known to have been in

16:48

in around the area the name

16:51

you're gonna set them off

16:53

okay where were you with this time in

16:56

basically kind of realized

17:00

what minute by minute you

17:02

move here i move here i'm

17:04

picturing it in my head was fascinated

17:07

the police had a plane in the air the

17:10

take pictures of where everyone

17:12

was located during the reenactment

17:15

in hopes that he would assist

17:17

in the investigation they

17:19

were these good looking for anything any

17:22

clues any leads murphy

17:24

where it would be beneficial like he said mean

17:27

you have these different people standing in certain spots

17:30

along with an officer that

17:32

after asking them you know when you were

17:34

here what did you see if anything

17:36

in in later they can take those notes back

17:39

sit around talk about it look at the pictures

17:42

that they took from the plane

17:44

and that a piece a

17:46

story together we'll tell you

17:48

the first saw the jumped into my mind

17:50

was the first

17:53

jack reacher move

17:54

if you remember later on

17:57

they were reconstructing

17:59

the timing of the shots

18:02

who was shot first to was shot

18:04

second

18:05

that's not a reenactment a sign of

18:08

showing it right by that's

18:11

how become the the conclusions

18:13

that they do in the move the

18:16

first thing that jumped into my mind sometimes

18:20

multitasking can be overwhelming

18:22

like when your favorite podcast is playing

18:24

in the person next to you was talkin

18:26

and your car fan is blasting parking

18:30

spot, but then sometimes multitasking

18:33

is like quoting with progressive

18:35

insurance they do the hard work of comparing

18:38

rates so you can find a great rate

18:40

that works for you if it's not with

18:42

them give their nifty comparison tool try

18:44

and you might just getting the

18:46

rate in coverage you deserve is all

18:48

you need to do is visit progressive website

18:51

to get a quote with all the coverages

18:53

you like comprehensive and

18:55

collision coverage or personal injury

18:57

protection then you'll see progressive

18:59

direct rates and their tool will provide options

19:02

from other companies all lined up

19:04

and ready to compare so it's simple

19:06

to choose the rate and coverages you lie

19:09

press play on comparing auto rates

19:11

quote at progressive dot com to

19:13

join the over twenty seven million drivers

19:15

who trust progressive progressive casualty

19:18

insurance company and affiliates comparison

19:20

rates not available in all states or

19:22

situations prices vary based

19:24

on how you buy according to the guardian

19:27

on the nineteenth the police went door

19:29

to door and wakefield then as

19:31

thousands of households if they had seen

19:34

anyone suspicious near the

19:36

murder side on october not the

19:38

even went a step further and reached out

19:40

to all homes within a quarter mile

19:43

which was reported to be about four hundred

19:45

homes their so's residents

19:48

retrace their activities

19:50

that though you've already said

19:52

it gives but this was a ton of work

19:54

police are really at

19:57

least on pay

19:59

looking

19:59

though

20:01

they're making every effort the

20:03

find out what happened lc

20:05

to find her killer

20:07

the hunt for the killer made national headlines

20:10

for weeks despite

20:12

extensive inquiries the

20:14

murder weapon was never facts and

20:16

to this day no one

20:18

has been convicted of humor so

20:20

after all that effort how

20:23

frustrating wouldn't it be

20:25

investigators and even a family the

20:28

realize that nothing came from according

20:31

to the sunday mirror police received

20:33

a lead on october twenty second about

20:36

a young man that looks suspicious

20:38

and who had been in the area to time

20:40

as elsie's murder

20:42

this young man had a specific

20:44

here

20:45

oh please with every barbershop

20:48

in wakefield and yorkshire

20:50

with a description of his face

20:53

in his hair

20:54

well as an artist's rendering

20:56

there was one of the artist rendering that was

20:59

in the paper and it's one of those

21:01

ones that where are you could

21:04

recognize who that individual could be

21:07

someone i target my flock of seagulls

21:09

here know oka says

21:11

i am and seen the picture there's

21:13

not that far out

21:15

there were that out

21:17

of the norms are you saying

21:19

yeah and they're trying

21:21

gotta give him credit for that you know they won

21:23

the know if any of the barber's

21:25

had cause more restyled

21:27

his hair in the past two weeks but

21:30

no one recalled

21:31

this young man

21:33

the wakefield express ran the artist's

21:35

rendering on the front page to help

21:37

aid in the investigation five

21:40

they are based on what you're saying there

21:42

was no that our the ordinary so

21:46

and is not a picture it's an artist

21:49

drawing exactly though is that

21:51

surprising that a barber would not remember

21:54

not put two and two together now probably

21:56

not

21:57

according to the guardian the

21:59

rest

21:59

the made on january eleven nineteen

22:02

sixty said this person was

22:04

sent to the leads prison to

22:06

await trial thirty three year

22:08

old in bernard spencer

22:11

the railway farm and

22:13

was married with a science he had been questioned

22:15

early on the investigation

22:18

and then requests in begin

22:20

by the corn spencer

22:22

was arrested and charged with murder of

22:25

lc frost on the twelve it

22:27

is pre trial in coroner's inquest

22:30

the held on the same after

22:32

hearing all the evidence that the corner

22:35

presented along with several

22:37

witness statements including

22:39

he ends account of that day the

22:42

jury came back after two hours of

22:44

deliberation the jury stated

22:46

that they agreed unanimous

22:49

that l c dad was due to shock

22:51

and hemorrhaging caused by

22:53

the multiple stab wounds the also

22:55

decided that there was an evidentiary

22:58

case against ian spends

23:00

the corner officially recorded this verse

23:03

the and was found guilty and

23:05

was waiting in jail for his official

23:08

try however on february cities

23:11

after a magistrate reviewed the case

23:13

at the defense's requests they

23:16

found no case against spencer was

23:18

justified

23:19

then he was discharged it was reported

23:22

that

23:23

the and spencer have a lot of not

23:25

the nine were mass

23:27

for the murder weapon and

23:30

he was reportedly home by three thirty

23:32

pm the on the day of the murder they

23:35

arrested this guy in his case

23:37

was presented to the coroner's inquest

23:40

another time this time

23:42

he was found not guilty on march

23:44

tenth nineteen sixty said the

23:46

police really were going after this guy

23:49

they really felt like they had

23:52

right guy

23:53

it was guilty in they were not gonna

23:55

let up on him that definitely sounds

23:58

like it now what were they

23:59

they saying

24:01

that we did say there were some witness

24:03

statements we don't know what they were

24:06

the what the one thing that i always

24:08

tend to think of in the case

24:10

of a murdered child like

24:13

this the pressure

24:15

that to police are under re

24:17

the have to find someone sure

24:20

now as than pressure lead

24:22

to innocent people being put in jail

24:25

absolutely

24:26

i don't the

24:28

there's any way around saying

24:30

that it has the guy

24:32

on the lamanites you who also

24:34

owns the lamanites

24:37

you

24:38

far as i know

24:39

that killed anyone

24:42

that's me knocking on wood weasel talk

24:44

about we don't talk about it but no in all seriousness

24:47

we don't know everything that they had against them

24:49

but i think is pretty safe to say was flimsy

24:52

because even though

24:55

you know the first corners the

24:57

inquest juri found

25:00

that he should go to trial what

25:02

didn't take long for a magistrate overrule

25:04

that the second coroner's

25:07

inquest jury found inaccurate

25:09

the

25:10

you can have to look at that say well their

25:12

pride just wasn't nothing there

25:15

was sad that elsie's family never

25:17

thought in spencer was gold

25:19

oh sees mother said at the time i know

25:21

what mr spencer and his wife must

25:23

have suffered i'm glad for their sakes

25:26

it is over i'm sure they will be

25:28

as anxious as i am to have

25:30

the killer sent there's something we

25:32

don't often talk about

25:34

the victim's family members

25:36

very very eager

25:38

who

25:39

have the police find how

25:41

who killed their loved that quick you

25:44

know who also is very very year

25:46

the have that happen someone

25:48

under the cloud of suspicion yeah

25:51

then tried twice they

25:54

would like to have that happen to because

25:56

again the even though you're found

25:58

not guilty are you telling me

26:01

they're not whispering about you with the butcher

26:03

shop exactly you know the

26:06

public perception sometimes is

26:08

not as forgiving as the core may

26:10

be sure but then the investigation

26:13

into this horrific murder

26:15

winkle investigators over

26:18

the years would good bits and pieces

26:20

of information nothing

26:22

that really the you know broke

26:24

the case open according to the daily

26:26

mail it wasn't until november

26:29

first of two thousand system

26:31

the case kind of really started

26:33

to he'd back up west yorkshire

26:36

now had the jurisdiction of

26:38

the murder side in aussies

26:40

case the lead detective said

26:43

hi more nonstop just as being

26:46

the cold case team consisted of

26:48

ten investigators most of

26:50

them retired

26:52

they didn't have any dna to work with

26:54

they really had no evidence at

26:56

all they had been lost

26:58

or destroyed over

27:01

the years they figures was a nineteen

27:03

sixty five murder more and twenty fifteen

27:06

the long span to try to preserve

27:08

that type of evidence yeah fifty years

27:10

a long time

27:11

especially

27:13

when you think about the techniques

27:15

that were used in the nineteen sixties

27:18

the to collect evidence to preserve

27:20

added acted keep

27:22

evidence from good last year

27:25

the cold case attacked his did get a new

27:27

leaf about a person of interest

27:29

in two thousand and fifteen

27:31

according to the daily mail

27:33

the was a white male around

27:35

twenty five to thirty years old

27:37

the time of the murder and was writing

27:39

a black bicycle with a basket

27:42

on the front in wearing a white

27:44

labs or some type

27:46

of white coat and look like the

27:48

lab coat which could signify

27:51

that he worked in a lab writing

27:53

the thought was more like this was

27:55

a cold dead maybe a delivery

27:57

boy a butcher the

27:59

someone who worked in a slaughterhouse would

28:02

wear the lab coat

28:04

but they can look similar yeah

28:06

this is the white house the fancy waco

28:09

the were wonder sometimes you do

28:11

here's the thing i never understood why

28:13

you if you're a butcher for you

28:16

work in a slaughterhouse would

28:18

you wear white coat to start a good

28:20

color for that to a profession

28:22

any other color yeah black

28:25

yeah read when you want to hide those things

28:27

would actually probably be the best cohen

28:29

they have this lead the problem is

28:32

nothing really came from obviously

28:34

they looked into the sky they just couldn't hi

28:37

anything to him according

28:39

to the b b c the investigators

28:42

received another leads from a third

28:44

party this individual said

28:46

a nurse had worked in a hospice where

28:49

man had been brought in in

28:51

here to confess under drugs

28:53

to being present as the murder

28:56

of lcs from this

28:58

man said it he was in the long

29:00

grass with another man committing

29:02

a homosexual

29:04

when lc

29:06

the stumbled over there then the

29:08

other man had run off

29:10

after lc and stabbed the

29:12

basically what this guy saying is that lc

29:15

had caught them the acted

29:17

doing something

29:19

then you know when she saw that

29:21

she ran off screaming

29:23

in one of the man jumped off ran

29:25

after lc and staffed

29:28

the nurse said a doctor was

29:30

also in the room to hear what she

29:32

called the confession they

29:35

never said anything to the police

29:38

because patient

29:40

doctor confidentiality they

29:42

also said that they couldn't break down confidentiality

29:45

because the man was on medication or to talk

29:48

article did mention that there had

29:50

been another room the eating something

29:53

similar to the statement what

29:55

it was hearsay right

29:57

evie try to introduce that core

29:59

the

30:00

the defense could argue against aggro

30:03

the see please have to be careful about

30:06

moving too quickly

30:08

on something like that the other

30:10

thing article mentioned was that

30:13

homosexual acts between mint

30:15

we're only goal until nineteen

30:17

sixty seven so could be a motive

30:20

for somebody to we want

30:22

to harm someone to do absolutely if

30:24

you saw

30:26

that this girl

30:28

saul what you were doing

30:30

and was screaming

30:32

and running

30:33

to go tell some yeah

30:35

that could be a mode

30:37

if what you're doing at that point

30:40

in time

30:41

technically illegal and maybe

30:43

if you were in a position of power to that

30:45

you didn't want to dig it out that's true as well

30:48

you know he could be whoever you are but

30:50

i think it even

30:52

it's magnify

30:54

if your a person of importance

30:56

around town if you're more

30:59

well known around town

31:01

the leader or something like that you i'm some

31:03

big store according

31:05

to the mirror in two thousand and sixteen

31:08

on the fiftieth anniversary the

31:11

aussies murder

31:12

oh she's older sister and contacted

31:15

the bbc

31:16

which led to radio for journalists

31:19

joining in on the investigation

31:22

of the case and working with the

31:24

west yorkshire police to hunt

31:26

for the kill

31:27

the police investigation when from

31:30

him team members

31:31

who a team of fourteen who looked

31:34

at thousands of documents

31:36

and evidence i don't know what

31:38

evidence against whatever evidence they still

31:40

had last year

31:42

we mention that a lot of evidence was

31:44

destroyed

31:45

in two thousand and sixteen police

31:47

officers received some tips and

31:50

because of those tips they arrested

31:53

seventy year old peter pickering

31:56

the on suspicion of elsie's murder

31:59

it's actually

31:59

the names

32:01

they

32:02

three time first that be even harder

32:05

peter will dot the be starve

32:07

womb well

32:08

in nineteen seventy two pickering

32:10

kidnapped stabbed and strangled

32:13

fourteen year old school rural surely

32:15

both

32:16

the womb will orange the

32:18

holder of or seven hours while he bound

32:21

torture battered sexually

32:24

abused rate and then murdered

32:26

her i hacking her up

32:28

with a kitchen

32:30

in a big about

32:31

zoc their well that's how you get

32:34

the name the beast that

32:36

would be sleep tight stops here

32:39

pickering was sent to broad more mental

32:41

hospital in nineteen seventy two

32:43

for an indefinite period the

32:46

murder of surely boulder there's

32:48

been time in jail prior to this

32:50

for other sexual assaults of girls

32:53

and was out on bail awaiting

32:55

trial for assaulting burning

32:58

am coughing and right

32:59

keeping ago

33:00

just months before he murdered so

33:03

the sky

33:04

the spending his profile here

33:06

is a more so one

33:08

way

33:09

the disguise allowed out on bail

33:12

after reading

33:15

what he just did all those things that he did

33:18

there he then goes on to murder

33:20

wow he's on bail it

33:23

almost have to be ashamed be the prosecutor

33:26

or whoever determined to allow him

33:28

to the out at that time the

33:31

judge i get it i understand

33:33

the bellsystem the man

33:36

has some nasty stuff that

33:38

he's accused of doing

33:40

i guess that's the key were right accused

33:43

not convicted exactly

33:45

there has to be alone

33:47

that line seems to change

33:50

the country by jurisdiction

33:53

to date a guy was a beast he was

33:55

he was the other thing i would say the changes over

33:58

time sure and has changed

34:00

though investigators began

34:02

investigating pickering in two

34:04

thousand and sixteen they continued

34:07

investigating him as a likely

34:09

suspect there are two thousand

34:11

nine they learn that he was

34:13

on the radar

34:15

back in nineteen sixty five

34:17

within days of them are

34:19

it was noted that even back in

34:21

sixty five the original investigators

34:24

from scotland yard investigators

34:26

him just days after elsie's

34:28

murders but they could never put

34:31

him in the air the police and

34:33

wakefield were also sent a file

34:35

on pickering from the metropolitan

34:38

police on october thirteen

34:41

nineteen sixty five there's four

34:43

days after else he was stabbed to death

34:46

on the twenty fifth of them on

34:48

the wakefield police return the file with

34:50

a know which read the file

34:52

and respect peter pickering

34:55

this forward to this office making

34:58

pickering a likely sauce they

35:00

even put his house under surveillance

35:03

in the days after elsie's murder

35:06

early because he was wanted for sexual

35:08

assaults on two different

35:11

fourteen year old girls

35:13

the time

35:14

this sounds like he might have a emo here

35:16

what is it a coincidence that

35:19

every one that

35:21

he's accused

35:23

hurting sexually assaulting

35:26

raping this fourteen

35:28

years

35:29

mad at the time of her death

35:31

else he was fourteen years old though

35:34

i do not think so final be the

35:36

police thought so either then

35:38

it was reported that he

35:40

would dress up as a woman that

35:42

he could get into his car

35:45

and escape police survey green

35:48

was arrested two months later for

35:51

the other assaults we mentioned but

35:53

by that time in spencer

35:55

had been charged with the murder of

35:58

well see for us then we talk about

36:00

how so kissed investigators

36:03

were on he and spencer they really

36:05

felt as though he was the kill

36:08

the all use those two words tunnel

36:10

vision

36:11

and ask the question

36:13

the police good tunnel vision do they

36:15

have tunnel vision when he came

36:17

the and spencer and kind

36:19

of forget about the

36:22

other really good suspect peter pick

36:25

really do think they look thirty and into the

36:27

seem if he checked all the

36:29

right boxes

36:31

for then go to trial

36:32

in get a conviction there's

36:34

we know with they didn't what

36:37

the very least they were all in on

36:40

instance then you know as well

36:42

as i do gives a once you go all

36:44

in on something it means

36:47

that the other things you were

36:49

working on for

36:51

by the wayside he had a lot of go

36:53

see can concentrate on what years driving

36:56

toward yeah it's it's kind of natural

36:58

it happens our way we'll see

37:00

sister and brother were a when

37:03

the case stalled after the exoneration

37:05

of the and spencer in march nineteen

37:08

sixty six they did allow

37:10

pickering free the go

37:12

on the kidnapped and raped and eighteen

37:14

year old woman in barnsley in

37:16

nineteen seventy ninth and then murder

37:18

fourteen year old slowly bolt i

37:21

think you for the police would have stuck

37:23

with the occurring back

37:25

then then maybe

37:28

that rape and then later the murder of surely

37:30

would never happen if it was decided

37:32

that he was the murderer of

37:35

lc frosty i could see where you

37:37

could come to that conclusion according

37:41

to the mirror a new inquest

37:43

into elsie's death was held after

37:45

her brother and sister how

37:47

and frost and and cleave successfully

37:50

campaigned for a fresher investigators

37:53

learn that pickering might have

37:55

attempted to warn his then girlfriend

37:58

in nineteen sixty five something

38:00

back the road in a latter after

38:02

his girlfriend dumped which was dated

38:05

just days before elsie's murder

38:08

you have caused me to do what i'm

38:10

about to do you watch

38:12

what happens next in in obviously

38:14

days later fourteen year old lc

38:17

frost was found dead now

38:19

he never may old the letter

38:21

to his golf and seven years later

38:24

as we talked about pickering went on to rape

38:26

a teenager and then murder surely

38:29

bowl big of you're looking

38:31

at this from the outside in that's

38:34

a pretty ominous same it

38:36

is now is a conclusive

38:38

that it has to do with the murder

38:40

of lc frosts no absolutely

38:43

not

38:44

then you start to try to

38:46

connect the dots yeah

38:48

i think you can

38:50

in two thousand a team police revealed

38:52

further details about their investigation

38:55

the into this prolific sex

38:57

kremlin own child killer pickering

39:01

we already said was dubbed the beast

39:03

of whom well for his the

39:05

distinct crimes according to mirror

39:08

the west yorkshire police probe

39:10

into pickering the uncovered

39:12

would they called damning avid

39:15

we discovered pickering was a

39:18

horde and investigator said

39:20

everything he'd been writing and drawing

39:22

over the last forty plus years

39:25

while in custody captain

39:27

an incentive to distant relatives

39:30

saudi for

39:32

the had to secret storage reynolds

39:34

in sheffield and liverpool

39:36

the be like hey early christmas present

39:39

to investigators my thought is

39:41

are they were pretty hard on this pickering guy

39:43

to talk so once

39:45

a heard about this the had

39:47

to be even more the

39:49

man that he he was somebody they really

39:52

needed to dive and apparently

39:54

his mom's est was paying for

39:57

the you

39:58

it was said that the story that's

40:00

were floor to ceiling

40:02

the boxes and suitcases

40:04

inside we're suitcases

40:07

containing hand tops women's

40:09

underwear diaries ladders

40:12

paintings in exercise and

40:15

exercise books you know this cancer have

40:17

all that of stuff without exercise books

40:20

keep fit yeah that's true that's

40:22

where they found this letter to his

40:24

goal from the one that that we talked

40:26

about he was dated october

40:29

seventh nineteen sixty five the

40:31

had written it to his girlfriend who

40:34

lived just minutes away rom

40:37

were lc frost was murdered

40:39

further down and this letter he wrote

40:41

i will surely go down in flames

40:44

this time

40:45

i shall have to take someone with

40:47

me when i go so now

40:50

the join the devil

40:51

now i'm really going to get good

40:54

and bloody nasty thanks

40:56

to you so i mean near

40:58

the first part of a ladder i

41:00

think you could read it as this

41:02

maybe threatening his ex girlfriend

41:06

this part to me doesn't sound

41:08

like that it sounds like

41:10

he's blaming her for yeah but

41:13

dad his intention is to take somebody

41:15

else down with

41:17

him show her

41:20

right to get back it her the

41:22

because of this it's all your fault

41:24

yes then you're gonna have to

41:26

live with the knowledge

41:28

that you cause this

41:30

nasty d that i'm bout to do yeah

41:33

that's the way i'm breeding same here

41:35

officers had to read several hundred

41:38

thousand bits of paper then

41:40

the collection of documents they found

41:42

proof he was in west yorkshire

41:45

when lc dot several

41:47

hundred thousand bits of paper this

41:50

canada is conjuring up

41:52

but the image and sad yeah

41:55

when they finally break into the guy's

41:57

apartment they find all

41:59

the know book the know just filled

42:01

every one of them is still

42:03

the get we'd your way through

42:05

the man is kevin spacey player

42:08

a really good bad guy in that movie

42:10

really do in an art imitating

42:13

life he turns out to be a bad guy in real

42:15

us to the yeah about that just

42:17

came full circle the fact is

42:19

also found out that pickering had plotted

42:22

with his mom the create a false

42:24

alibi for the day lc was murdered

42:26

the wrote to her from prison saying the

42:29

doctor to say i'm in bed with the flu

42:32

getting to sign if police ever

42:35

com com his mom then got

42:37

the doctor who has since died who

42:39

make a false affidavit to

42:41

the police the work we know

42:43

that a mom will do about anything

42:45

for their son we have seen that a

42:48

number of time

42:49

the even found pick ring road about

42:51

shirley's rape and torture and a diary

42:54

then about his other attacks later in

42:56

life as if it was

42:59

his biography

43:00

film like this guy was kind of for themselves

43:02

he was he also doesn't look

43:05

all that innocent at this

43:07

point in the story we discovered

43:09

is no books containing six

43:11

fantasies which apparently

43:13

were written in you know a lot

43:16

of detail

43:17

detectives also stated that

43:20

he was a killer

43:21

it is pray

43:23

they'd been girls especially fourteen

43:25

year old school girls as he had committed

43:27

sexual offenses on at least

43:30

two other girls of that age as

43:32

well as the murder a fourteen year old

43:34

shirley boldly so we've

43:37

kind of already mentioned that was you

43:39

know if you're detect is now

43:42

trying to piece it all together

43:44

this far down the road

43:46

and you're looking back in you're saying

43:49

attacked a fourteen year old girl

43:51

attacked a fourteen year old girl murdered

43:53

a fourteen year old girl

43:55

what obviously l c frost

43:58

this profile the your zoning and real

44:00

quick on this

44:02

if you're the detective and at the very

44:04

least you're dating

44:05

the just a coincidence that all

44:08

of his victims are fourteen

44:10

year old girl

44:12

according to the mirror and two thousand

44:14

eighteen

44:15

detectives contacted the mental

44:17

hospital where pickering

44:19

was being held they wanted to

44:21

arrange to arrange with a

44:24

member of the staff at the hospital hold

44:26

pickering that the west yorkshire police

44:29

wanted to talk to him in the first

44:31

thing he did this to call one

44:33

of the investigate that

44:35

i know what you call in about you'll

44:37

need to worry about that please don't

44:39

waste your time i remember

44:42

that case of to time

44:43

i was in the country i

44:45

was in frame

44:47

the you the wrong guy man i was in france

44:49

you know the countryside luna

44:51

life so too

44:53

the

44:53

move on don't worry about it wasn't me

44:56

there's nothing please move on there's nothing to see

44:58

here you know that's not

45:00

going to the tour

45:02

investigators right they went they interviewed

45:04

him shortly after this phone call

45:07

he stuck to his story and his alibi

45:10

about being and science investigators

45:12

secured warrants for records

45:14

and information of people connected

45:17

to pickering on the outside there

45:20

for years were convinced that peter

45:22

pickering murdered lc

45:24

frogs one detective

45:26

even went as far as calling pickering

45:28

a homicidal maniac

45:31

yeah right there fall

45:33

the was a murderer so i don't think the

45:35

guy was going out on a limb

45:37

i say that

45:38

the investigators believe that while

45:41

pickering was on the run to evade

45:43

arrest for the sexual assault

45:45

the two girls and nineteen sixty five

45:48

then attacked and murdered else the

45:51

they had all of this evidence

45:53

that they discovered

45:55

investigators decided to reinterview

45:58

pickering hm

45:59

sam about not being answering

46:03

and when they did this he said actually

46:05

you're right

46:06

i've got it wrong i

46:08

was in barnsley not in

46:10

for

46:11

story changing his story but he's

46:13

not changing it

46:15

the that it puts him in

46:17

the area of them are according

46:20

to the mirror corner cabin mclaughlin

46:23

said this your pickering

46:25

it seems was absorbed

46:27

by lc for us murder

46:29

the has been exposed as a devious man

46:32

the picture that emerges that

46:35

mr pickering what a

46:37

dangerous me this for young

46:39

women were concerned

46:40

the investigation team was just days

46:43

away from charging pickering

46:46

when he died of a heart attack

46:48

in march of two thousand eighty

46:50

that's gonna be deflate i

46:53

think in their heart they thought this

46:55

is the guy right we've got him ready

46:57

go to trial but this guy

47:00

away even longer than he already is

47:02

the or at least

47:04

hold him responsible air get a win for

47:06

the family for the team absolutely

47:09

investigators in the family of

47:11

lc for us were sad that

47:13

peter pickering did not go to trial

47:16

the mirror reported that song and fra

47:18

said pickering had got away

47:20

with murder but considering

47:22

he spent the best part of his adult life

47:24

in custody it seems

47:27

as though he didn't get away with much

47:29

pickering it's been over forty years and

47:31

costs he served a license

47:35

literally he died in

47:37

the reason or another and a middle

47:39

hospital those we wrap

47:41

up this episode gibbs

47:43

we know investigators and nineteen sixty

47:46

five investigated peter pickering

47:48

buds like we said they were so

47:51

hyper focused on ian

47:53

spence there are fixated

47:55

on him

47:57

the attempted

47:58

it seems

47:59

to make the evidence that against

48:02

him

48:03

there has been some reporting

48:05

that has eluded to

48:07

the fact that investigators basically

48:10

put words in in some of the witnesses

48:12

miles back then and

48:14

i did even some detectors later

48:16

came out and admit it is that

48:19

is because of all that the

48:21

peter pickering kind of screwed

48:24

it off the radar good route target

48:27

when away

48:28

image that

48:29

the get a missed opportunity

48:31

the nearly fifty years later

48:33

lousy his brother and sister had

48:35

to force the police to reopen the case

48:37

and we mentioned it right the new investigators

48:40

basically started with nothing

48:42

the had no dna

48:44

most of the evidence was lost or destroyed

48:47

and most of the eye witnesses were now

48:50

either dead or they couldn't be found

48:52

the through a lot of effort they were able

48:55

to find out about this guy peter

48:57

pick based on all the

48:59

evidence they sound and the storage units

49:02

well as figuring out that

49:04

he was in the area looking

49:07

at his mo i

49:09

do they believe in i

49:11

think most people believe when

49:14

it comes to the murder of frost

49:16

peter pickering was the man response

49:19

it looks pretty darn good for he does the problem

49:22

is

49:22

the never got his day in court

49:24

your juri never got

49:26

the chance to say

49:28

yes he did it or know he didn't do

49:31

it or you don't have enough evidence to say

49:33

he did i guess if you're looking

49:35

for a silverlight

49:37

it is the fact that peter

49:39

pickering murdered lc

49:41

frost

49:42

the didn't spend over forty years after

49:45

her murder in prison where

49:47

he ultimately dot yeah so he was an out

49:50

doing any other harm

49:51

yes

49:52

for the and spencer after

49:55

being accused of aussies murder

49:57

things were not quite the same for him

49:59

imagine that's probably true for lot of people

50:02

that are up on those temperatures as i can

50:04

imagine a to that it would be do you

50:06

know kind of a nightmare apparently

50:08

he had to track is daily mileage

50:11

he kept receipts for every place he

50:13

went the keep a record of

50:15

his whereabouts because he was

50:17

constantly afraid the

50:20

being accused for another

50:22

murder those almost

50:24

like i have to document everything

50:26

i do in case

50:28

someone says oh you murdered

50:31

someone yeah that were where were you

50:33

on this thrive the lie i can

50:35

prove them wrong then a lotta people

50:37

in the town so thought he was guilty then

50:39

reportedly that wait on him how could it

50:41

not when like

50:44

i said you're in the butcher shop

50:46

sally smith next year whispering

50:49

to her friend or there's the murderer

50:51

i know he did it the had

50:53

a stroke in two thousand and sixteen

50:56

and it was last reported that he was in

50:58

a care facility the

51:00

other thing now mostly will say is that

51:02

in this guy was a victim police

51:06

morning so badly the

51:08

bring someone to justice for

51:10

l c and for the community

51:12

that you're like we said i think they discussed

51:14

that tunnel vision the

51:17

kind of excluded this guy who had already

51:19

been on the radar peter pickering the

51:21

cars for whatever reason

51:24

they thought he in spencer was

51:26

a better fit how wrong

51:29

they were

51:29

they were

51:30

while least that's what a jury decide

51:33

i don't know this is one

51:35

that will ever be conclusively

51:38

solved because

51:40

the lack of evidence ray

51:43

forensic type have an insanity just

51:45

going to be a dna match routes you

51:47

know something along those lines

51:50

but a seagull you said to most people

51:53

it seems as though peter pickering

51:56

was the guy

51:57

and

51:58

your he as

51:59

he'd literally

52:01

even though he was on the

52:03

police his radar

52:05

in by the time

52:07

you got back on and they were

52:10

about way to go after him he does though

52:14

i don't know that this one will

52:16

ever be inclusively

52:18

called soul

52:20

i think most people can feel as

52:22

though it is yeah and away that's

52:25

it for our case on the murder of

52:27

lc frost we get some voice mails you and check

52:29

those out assume

52:31

hello this is cs from seattle

52:33

i love the show it's so good

52:35

i'm a new convert just and listening

52:38

grandma's and has been just and

52:40

been jane nonstop name of

52:42

a dog love you so much you guys are

52:44

amazing you know there's so many

52:47

unsolved crimes and even wicked

52:49

stuff has happened in washington state lotteries

52:51

as to do like maybe half a

52:53

season dedicated to washing state

52:55

because

52:56

than crazy matters of here anyway

52:58

plus you guys you're amazing a

53:01

sunny and respect for it's great

53:03

but i m p diddy all the way

53:05

great voice disease have a great

53:07

i love you guys have i

53:10

we can agree voice she has weather's voices

53:12

that the like see should the

53:14

great things she

53:17

should read that you know i really like do

53:19

commercials over our

53:21

of america you know when you call

53:23

somewhere you get data automated

53:26

system by don't you just tell me what

53:28

this movie one is it

53:32

my can get a joke calling from south carolina

53:35

first and foremost congratulations

53:37

on three hundred episodes of true crime

53:39

all the time he bought the great work you guys are

53:42

awesome i'm also cause you

53:44

to the had a suggestion on t cat

53:46

on saul you to covered space

53:48

on britney drexel i don't know

53:51

if you both or her by her case

53:53

was actually solve a few months that

53:55

which has result wondering

53:58

if you to would ever cover he

54:01

wants more facts from her birth

54:03

trial come out on a big that episode

54:05

and is so would you to also

54:08

use the cat on solve cases

54:10

that have been discussed if they were ever

54:13

saw in the future of or

54:15

later episodes of true crime all the

54:17

time once again thanks for everything you two

54:19

guys do you guys are awesome as the

54:21

grass on three hundred episodes hypocrite were

54:24

wow thanks to the the email the kudos

54:26

on the three hundred give me and i have been

54:28

talking about this for some time we have

54:31

your we get a lot

54:33

of people who email last with up days

54:36

which the very much appreciated

54:38

because we're not outer searching all the time

54:40

we're working on whatever next

54:42

episode is what to do

54:45

with these updates

54:47

you do we put em all land

54:49

one i'm on unsolved

54:52

do put him in one and put it on t

54:54

cats do we tell

54:56

the case over again but

54:58

then add in on t cast

55:01

the the new information

55:03

that comes out a trial race results

55:05

and of playing around with that but we need

55:08

to do something because we're at a point now

55:10

where you we have a number

55:12

of cases that we've done

55:14

in the past that have now been solved yeah

55:17

and so there's new information that people want

55:19

to hear from brother doesn't yes

55:21

jump put that on give he'll figure that out

55:23

or data

55:24

i might injuries is

55:26

colette from the first a i

55:28

just wasn't the question for you must

55:32

verb , said haven't seen

55:34

as okay listen okay the shelters

55:37

the proposed were advised

55:39

they all have oh you and

55:41

don't have don't they all have oh

55:44

you l d i don't count lt

55:47

you're right

55:48

good

55:49

would

55:50

should know oh

55:52

i'm sure that's a riddle it's it's not

55:55

as sexy to have the letters and it is some

55:57

ten a riddle riddle me this batman

55:59

and you know the worst time to ask

56:01

me a riddle the after you and i

56:04

have been in the studio for like six

56:06

hours recording podcasts

56:08

podcasts is a little machine this

56:10

point i'm i did you are now and for

56:12

a little while

56:13

good

56:14

good and could

56:16

the with their we would hang

56:18

they're all the words of people who wish they would

56:20

have gotten after ass and did something

56:22

maybe make you know something like

56:24

that yeah a people who

56:27

wish they would have

56:28

the over should have should as yeah

56:31

dreamers are not dreamers but

56:33

non doers that don't

56:36

a crescent aiders oh i'm a procrastinator

56:38

fisher ama ,

56:40

abby don't get me brain teasers her

56:43

for say right now don't move that we have the brains

56:45

to figure it out but hopefully so it

56:48

was the answer i'm sure we can google it wasn't

56:51

so much effort yeah i

56:53

should have it could have a

56:55

and i wish i would have and you and you you

56:57

probably should have a story

56:59

body that is it for another app

57:02

soda true crime all the time on solves the for

57:04

might and giving stay safe and see

57:06

drone time taking

57:49

maria and once upon a time in mexico

57:52

or immerse yourself and greens worth

57:59

the thousands more movies tv

58:10

that doesn't leaning