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captivating stories together. Hello

1:00

everyone and welcome to episode 355

1:02

of the True Crime All the Time

1:05

Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and

1:07

with me as always is my partner in

1:09

true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are

1:11

you? Hey, I'm doing good. How about yourself? I'm doing

1:13

very well. Good. You know, you and

1:15

I were talking earlier about this Ohio

1:18

weather, kind of having a

1:20

warm spell. It'll turn cold again, but it's

1:23

like a little mini preview of

1:26

the spring into summer. Get

1:28

me excited. I know. I'm gonna go out there and

1:30

start hiking around. It does get you excited, but then

1:32

it'll go back down to like 30 degrees,

1:34

probably for a little while. Then I just want to sit

1:37

on my couch then. Let's

1:39

go ahead and give our Patreon shout

1:41

outs. We had Jessica Stamp. Hey Jessica.

1:43

Caleb De Bruin. Well, thank you, Caleb.

1:45

Bridget. Hey, what's going on, Bridget? Ann

1:48

O'Brien jumped out at our highest level.

1:50

Oh, awesome. Thank you, Ann. Jennifer O'Dell.

1:52

Hey, there's O'Dell. Cowgirl521.

1:56

What up, 521? Aggs. Hey,

1:58

Aggs. Abby Lovelace. appreciate that

2:00

lovelace. Benjamin Ashdown. Hey Ashdown. Kathy

2:02

Robinson. What's going on Kathy? Mark

2:05

Brockleman. Thank you Brockleman. Darby Landon.

2:07

Hey Landon. And last but not

2:09

least Rebecca. Good old Rebecca. Good

2:11

old Rebecca. And then if we

2:13

go back into the vault, this

2:17

week we selected Paul and Melissa

2:19

Hipperson. Those Hippersons. Yeah they've been

2:21

with us a long time. We

2:23

appreciate all the Patreon support. We

2:25

also had a couple of great

2:27

donations on PayPal. A

2:29

large donation from Melinda Worgacki. Well

2:32

thanks Melinda we appreciate that. Yep

2:34

we know Melinda. We love Melinda.

2:37

And one from Betty June Speth. Well

2:39

thank you Speth. So we appreciate all

2:41

of that. We have an episode

2:43

out right now on True Crime All the Time where

2:46

we're headed back to the 60s to

2:49

talk about a woman named

2:51

Lucille Miller and

2:53

the death of her husband Gordon Miller burned

2:56

alive in a car in San

2:59

Bernardino County very

3:01

quickly. The police looked at

3:03

his wife Lucille is the murderer

3:05

but there's a lot to this

3:07

case. Oh definitely

3:10

as you're thinking. Yes it's

3:12

not quite as wrapped

3:14

up in a nice

3:16

little bow as

3:18

many of the teacats are. There's a lot

3:20

to think about. All right buddy

3:22

are you ready to get into this

3:24

episode of True Crime All the Time

3:26

on Sol? I'm rainy. We're talking about

3:28

the murder of Eve Stratford. Eve

3:31

Stratford worked at the Playboy Club

3:33

in London and was featured

3:35

in Mayfair magazine days before

3:37

she was killed on March 18th 1975.

3:41

Eve was attacked and

3:43

murdered inside her apartment. Months

3:45

later 16 year old

3:47

Lynn Weeden was raped and

3:49

murdered while walking to her home in

3:51

West London. The two cases

3:53

were linked by DNA over

3:56

30 years later and some

3:58

investigators have connected a day cases

4:01

to these two murders, which has

4:03

led to the theory that the

4:05

victims were killed by an unidentified

4:08

serial killer. So interesting that they

4:10

were able to tie these together. Yeah, and

4:13

we'll talk about them more in detail. But

4:16

to think that after

4:18

30 years, you know, some

4:20

of the dots start to get connected.

4:23

There's the thought that there was

4:25

this unidentified serial killer. Well,

4:28

that brings hope that maybe someday that

4:31

will be an identified

4:33

serial killer and we'll

4:35

know all about that

4:37

person and what that person did.

4:40

Eve Stratford was born in Dortmund,

4:43

West Germany on December 28, 1953.

4:47

Eve's family moved a lot during her

4:50

childhood because her father Albert was an

4:52

army medic. They eventually

4:54

settled in the town of Warrington

4:57

in England. Eve moved out in 1972 to

4:59

live with her boyfriend, Tony Priest. They

5:03

shared a ground floor apartment

5:05

with Tony's bandmates in

5:07

Layton, East London. Tony

5:09

was a singer in the rock band Vineyard

5:12

originally called Onyx. They

5:14

supported bands like Queen and Thin

5:16

Lizzy. Oh, I

5:18

remember those bands. Yeah. So, I mean, those

5:20

were big bands. Queen was huge. So

5:23

obviously they were at least

5:25

on the right track, right? Sounds

5:28

like they were turning the right way. But

5:30

the band would split up by the

5:32

time Eve turned 21 and Tony eventually

5:34

got a job as a forklift truck

5:37

driver. And I think that happens

5:39

a lot. You know, bands start out. You

5:42

think if you're working with a band like

5:44

Queen, you're going to be signed.

5:46

You're going to do something. But it doesn't always

5:48

work out that way. You know, it's

5:50

kind of like trying to be an actor. Right.

5:52

You go out to Hollywood and

5:55

you're waiting tables, waiting for this

5:57

big break. And for some people

5:59

it comes. And for others, it never

6:01

comes. Or sometimes it comes and goes.

6:04

That happens as well. Yeah. I

6:07

think, you know, there's a

6:09

lot of weekend bands, you know, uh,

6:11

tribute bands and things like that, that

6:14

those guys, maybe they are driving a

6:16

forklift during the week and on the weekends, they're doing

6:19

what they wish they could have done on a

6:21

larger scale. Yeah. Yeah. I would say

6:23

that's probably accurate, but for, I think for a lot

6:25

of people, that might just be a hobby. It

6:28

sounds like they were really trying to make it

6:30

as a band and for whatever reason, it

6:32

didn't work out. I could see you trying to

6:34

be in a band. No, we've had

6:36

this discussion. I have multiple guitars

6:38

over here in the studio that

6:41

I still have yet to learn how to play. Like,

6:43

I see you trying to be in a band. I

6:46

can sing a little. Oh, you can sing,

6:48

but I don't play any instruments. Yeah. In

6:50

1973, Eve started

6:52

working as a waitress at the Playboy

6:55

Club in London. She was

6:57

19 years old at this time. Her dream

6:59

was to be a model and she hoped

7:01

this job would help her get started in

7:03

the industry. Now I'm sure

7:05

Gibbs, that you remember these Playboy

7:08

clubs. I don't, I don't

7:10

think I was old enough to ever

7:12

remember them. I mean, I knew of

7:14

them. I wasn't old enough to venture inside them.

7:17

Oh, I thought you were managing one at some

7:19

point in the seventies, but

7:22

I actually did watch, I can't remember if

7:24

it was a documentary. It was some type

7:26

of show about these Playboy

7:28

clubs and they had them in

7:30

big cities, you know, all around,

7:32

they were kind of upscale. I

7:35

guess you would call them gentlemen's clubs.

7:38

They were pretty popular back then. They

7:40

were, they were. While at

7:42

work, Eve went by the name

7:44

Bunny Ava. Her coworkers

7:46

described her as a gentle and friendly

7:49

person. She was popular with

7:51

the clubs regular. She and

7:53

some of the other Playboy girls

7:55

were photographed with famous people who

7:57

visited the club in

7:59

March. 1975 Eve was suspended

8:02

from the club for three months

8:04

for breach of contract. She modeled

8:06

for Mayfair magazine rival publication

8:09

and was featured on the cover

8:11

of that month's issue. She

8:13

used the name Eva van Borkes

8:15

for this publication. This edition

8:18

had over 460,000 subscribers. Almost

8:21

a half a million. That's a lot back there.

8:24

Yeah. So obviously it was a big deal

8:27

for her. And I'm sure very hard

8:29

to turn down. She didn't

8:31

turn it down, but apparently it was

8:33

also part of her playboy

8:36

contract that she wouldn't do it. Eve

8:39

had been looking for opportunities though,

8:41

to kickstart her modeling career. She

8:43

tried to model for playboys

8:45

American magazine, but was turned down. And

8:49

it was said, this is why she

8:51

accepted the job with Mayfair. Eve's

8:53

manager and former bunny mother, Aaron

8:55

Morris said Eve understood why she

8:58

was suspended and wasn't upset about

9:00

it. She explained that she did

9:02

it because she wanted to be

9:04

a model. Eve anticipated that

9:06

this would be the beginning of her

9:08

career and she wouldn't need

9:10

to come back to the club. Although she

9:13

was told she could return once

9:15

her suspension was over. Aaron

9:17

Morris said, as quoted by the mirror, she

9:20

wasn't just going to wait on tables.

9:22

She wanted to do something with her

9:24

life. And that's coming from her bunny

9:26

mother. It is. It also, I think

9:29

helps explain why she was

9:31

willing to kind of breach this contract

9:33

because she thought, it doesn't

9:35

matter. I'm not going back there anyway,

9:38

because this is going to shoot

9:40

me, you know, up the ladder

9:42

into, you know, some type

9:44

of startup. Yeah. Get her into the career.

9:46

She really wants to be, not be a

9:48

cocktail waitress. And you know, sometimes in

9:51

life, you just have to take a risk. You do.

9:53

If you want to change, you want something

9:56

different. You can't keep doing the same old

9:58

thing. I know two guys

10:00

who. did that about eight

10:02

years ago. Yeah. And so far it's

10:04

worked out pretty good. Yeah. Took a

10:06

big risk and Hey, thank goodness

10:08

you came up with that. We're still doing it. Eve

10:11

did two more photo shoots after

10:13

she was suspended, one for a

10:15

South African magazine and one for

10:17

a crime fiction novel where

10:19

she posed with a knife pointing at

10:22

her throat, which doesn't seem

10:24

all that strange until

10:26

you learn that Eve was killed just

10:28

days later. Then it seems

10:31

kind of foreboding and ominous. Well,

10:33

you're right. It's definitely ominous and

10:35

foreboding. That too. You

10:37

left that one out on March 18th, 1975. Eve

10:42

left her apartment to go see her

10:44

agent. After the meeting, she

10:46

started walking home and stopped to

10:48

buy herself flowers. The police

10:50

believe she was followed home from the

10:52

subway station in Leighton. Eve

10:56

left the station around three 45 and

10:58

was last seen walking alone near her

11:01

apartment. She arrived home at four 10

11:03

PM. And this is a very

11:05

scary thought to me. And

11:07

obviously Eve was an attractive woman.

11:10

She worked at the playboy club. She

11:13

was, you know, an aspiring model, the

11:16

thought that someone would see

11:18

her. And I don't

11:21

know if become fixated is the

11:23

right term, but make the

11:25

decision that I'm going

11:27

to follow her and

11:29

do something to her. That is

11:32

so scary. This is not

11:34

someone who, you know, has made

11:37

a plan or has been making

11:39

a plan for six months that

11:41

they're going to eliminate a rival

11:44

or something like that.

11:46

Not that any of that's good. This

11:48

is like a split second thing where

11:50

you see someone and you

11:53

make the decision. You

11:55

know, a predator makes the decision that

11:57

this is a person. They're going to go.

12:00

after they're going to target. That

12:02

it can happen that quickly, I guess is

12:04

what scares her. Yeah, that they decide that

12:07

I'm going to stalk this person. Because

12:09

someone catches their eye for whatever

12:11

reason. I mean, they see her, they're

12:14

attracted to her, then they want to stalk her and then

12:16

take it to another level after that. Detectives

12:19

believe the killer entered the house

12:21

as she opened the front door,

12:24

or they knocked and Eve opened the

12:26

door willingly. It appeared that

12:28

the killer grabbed her soon after she

12:30

got home because she dropped her flowers

12:32

in the hallway. And I could

12:35

see how police would make that assumption. She's

12:37

not going to buy these flowers, get

12:39

home, and as she's walking

12:41

inside the house, just drop them in the

12:44

hallway. No, that's not going to happen. She's

12:47

going to take them to the kitchen

12:49

or wherever, maybe grab a vase, put

12:51

some water. I mean, that's what most

12:53

people would do, but it

12:56

seems like she never got the chance

12:58

to do that. Around 5.15

13:01

PM, Eve's neighbor heard a man

13:03

and a woman talking inside the

13:05

apartment. It didn't sound like

13:07

an argument, but the conversation was followed

13:09

by a loud thud that sounded

13:12

like a chair falling over. The

13:14

neighbor then heard footsteps walking

13:16

downstairs to exit the apartment.

13:19

And this is something that we've talked about

13:22

in unsolved cases quite a bit, especially

13:24

if you're in an apartment setting.

13:27

You have neighbors who are

13:30

basically butting up right

13:33

next to you. You're sharing a wall with

13:35

them, a ceiling with them or whatever. And

13:38

so people are hearing

13:40

noises, but what are they making

13:42

of those noises? And what

13:44

would you make of a noise

13:46

like that? If it sounded like a

13:49

chair falling over, would you rush over? Would

13:51

you call 911? And

13:53

I don't think most people would. No. Especially

13:56

if it didn't sound like there was

13:58

some kind of heated argument. You

14:00

didn't hear a scream or anything like

14:02

that. I was just thinking, neighbors

14:05

are making some too much damn noise again. Because

14:08

most people don't want to be put

14:10

in that situation where, you know,

14:12

they, they ultimately find out they've, they've

14:15

called for no reason. Right. Exactly. And

14:17

so I think a lot of people

14:19

would err on the side of not

14:21

calling. I really do. Now, if you

14:23

heard a blood curdling scream, you heard

14:25

a gunshot, that would be, that would

14:27

be different. Eve's boyfriend,

14:29

Tony came home about 10 minutes

14:31

later and found her body in

14:34

the bedroom, a nylon stocking

14:36

was tied around one ankle and

14:38

a scarf was tied around her hands. Her

14:41

throat had been cut a dozen times.

14:44

And we've heard this before, but it

14:47

was said that her injuries were so

14:49

severe that her head

14:51

was almost completely severed. Authorities

14:54

believe Eve was sexually assaulted

14:57

because she was found partially

14:59

unclothed and semen was

15:01

obtained from vaginal swabs, which

15:03

indicated intercourse occurred shortly before

15:06

she died. The DNA sample

15:08

was also collected from a piece

15:10

of Eve's clothing. Well, I

15:12

think it's safe to say she was sexually assaulted. Yeah.

15:15

Based on what we know, it

15:18

also sounds like they were able

15:21

to collect a pretty

15:24

good amount of evidence.

15:26

Yeah. Semen. Now

15:29

we said a DNA sample, obviously in

15:31

1975, they didn't know what DNA

15:33

was, but they

15:35

collected something from

15:37

a piece of her

15:39

clothing that would be today considered

15:42

a DNA sample. There

15:45

were no signs of forced entry and

15:47

no murder weapon. Detectives speculated

15:49

she might have known her

15:51

attacker. And I think this comes

15:54

up often when there's no forced

15:56

entry. But I

15:58

don't think that is something. assumption is

16:01

always correct. It can't always be

16:03

correct because if somebody knocks on

16:05

your door, are you going to answer? Maybe

16:08

yes, maybe no, maybe you look through

16:10

the peephole. You don't know who

16:12

the person is, but you decide you're going

16:15

to answer anyway and that person kind of

16:17

bum rushes you and is able

16:20

to get inside quickly and shut the door.

16:22

Or they follow you up to the door

16:24

when you come home and you

16:26

get in you see them coming you try to

16:28

close the door quick enough to try to lock

16:30

it, but they are able to get in.

16:32

So there wouldn't technically be forced entry

16:35

even though it was a forced entry.

16:37

There'd be no signs of it, I

16:39

guess is what I'm trying to say. Because you didn't get a chance

16:41

to throw the lock. Yeah. Eve's father Albert

16:43

was on a work trip in the Democratic

16:46

Republic of the Congo. His

16:48

employer sent him a message that Eve

16:51

was injured in an accident and

16:53

he needed to come home immediately. His

16:55

company sent a car to take him to the

16:57

airport. On the front seat, he

17:00

found the newspaper with a story

17:02

about his daughter's murder on the front

17:04

page. He later found out

17:06

it was put there deliberately because

17:09

nobody within the company knew

17:12

how to break the news to him. It would

17:14

be tough to break that news, but

17:16

it seems like a crappy way

17:18

to do it. Really cold. But

17:21

I understand. Nobody wants to

17:23

deliver that type of news,

17:26

but to tell a person

17:28

that their daughter was in

17:30

an accident when you already know

17:32

that they're dead, they

17:35

were murdered, and then to kind

17:38

of plant this newspaper so

17:40

that the person finds out that way, it's

17:44

kind of cowardly. I think so. I think

17:46

somebody at the company should have stood

17:48

up. Had the nerve to do

17:51

what should have been done. Yeah, I agree

17:53

with you. Sometimes you got to

17:55

do the hard thing because it's the right thing.

17:58

Albert spoke to the Times and said, in

18:00

2009 and said his wife,

18:02

Liza, never recovered after Eve's

18:05

death. She visited her grave

18:07

every day and turned their home into

18:09

a shrine to Eve. She

18:11

had to quit her dress shop business because

18:13

she couldn't handle seeing all the young women that

18:16

came in. She died suddenly in 1986,

18:20

and he believed it was due to her

18:22

stress and trauma. Albert said

18:24

he burned all photos of

18:26

Eve except for one. It's

18:28

tough. It's absolutely tough.

18:31

It's heartbreaking. It's something

18:33

that we do talk about, probably

18:36

don't talk about enough because we

18:38

don't have the experience. But

18:41

when you read or

18:43

hear things like this, you

18:45

do get a sense of it.

18:48

You can never fully put

18:50

yourself in a person's shoes

18:52

until something like that has happened to you,

18:54

but you get a really good sense of

18:57

what they went through. The

18:59

original investigative team worked based

19:01

on the theory that the

19:03

killer had sexual obsessions of

19:06

tying women up and had

19:08

read the article in the latest issue

19:10

of Mayfair magazine, which featured

19:12

an interview with Eve where she

19:15

talked about her sexual preferences. Maybe

19:18

it's how he found out, ignited

19:20

something in him. He

19:22

sought her out and we know what

19:24

happened after that. So if this

19:26

theory is correct, then there would

19:28

have been a little bit more

19:30

planning than just

19:33

seeing Eve at the subway

19:35

station. This would have

19:38

been more of seeing her in the

19:40

magazine, reading the article,

19:42

maybe becoming infatuated

19:45

with her through

19:47

that interaction. And then

19:50

following her, figuring out her

19:52

pattern, her routine

19:54

and finding a time to

19:57

strike. So

20:00

now at least that narrows

20:03

the potential suspect list,

20:05

but not by

20:07

a big number, right? I mean, they have

20:09

a subscription base of almost a half

20:11

million. Yeah, but you don't

20:13

know who's buying it at a newsstand. That's

20:17

true. So I, yeah,

20:19

I would narrow it, but I don't know

20:21

how you could narrow it specifically,

20:25

if that makes sense. I guess

20:27

it depends if it's a regional

20:29

magazine or where's this being shipped to.

20:31

Maybe if you just concentrate on the people

20:33

that have a subscription that live

20:35

in London and then like you

20:38

said, you still have the newsstand buyers. True

20:40

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David Brenner, the editor of Mayfair

21:57

was one of the men who was

21:59

questioned. He said he interviewed

22:01

Eve over the phone and

22:03

was later cleared after he provided

22:06

a DNA sample and

22:08

obviously we'll get into talking about DNA,

22:10

but This clearing would

22:12

have happened many many years later

22:14

because we're still many years away

22:17

from Being able to

22:19

use DNA Another

22:22

potential suspect was a man named

22:24

Abdul Kawaha a

22:26

Lebanese businessman who ate lunch at

22:28

the Playboy Club every day He

22:31

enjoyed talking to the girls at the club, but

22:34

especially he he was

22:36

devastated by Eve's murder and Deeply

22:38

upset that he was a suspect He

22:41

complained to one worker that the

22:43

police were following him and telling

22:45

his friends. He was a suspect

22:47

He too was cleared after

22:50

his son Provided a

22:52

DNA sample. So again,

22:54

we're talking about what the 70s here, right?

22:58

We know this DNA stuff is

23:00

not going to happen for many

23:02

many years So these people that

23:05

we're talking about right now would

23:07

have walked around Under

23:09

the a cloud of suspicion for

23:11

many many years. Yeah, and

23:13

obviously he must not have been around anymore because

23:15

the Sun had a provided yeah a sample to

23:18

clear his dad's name Initially the

23:20

police believed that Eve's flower bouquet

23:22

which was found in the hallway

23:25

Was a key piece of evidence

23:27

because similar flowers were used for

23:30

her Mayfair Photo shoot

23:32

the police later learned that she

23:35

purchased those flowers herself

23:37

as well Detectives still

23:39

place great significance on the

23:41

magazine which they believed enticed

23:43

the killer who possibly found

23:46

Eve's address and Stocked her

23:49

and I really don't think this is a bad Lead

23:52

theory. I'm not saying it's the

23:55

only one but you could

23:57

see why the police would work on it

23:59

or work from it, I

24:01

don't know what else they had to go on. The

24:04

interview was pretty recent, right?

24:07

The issue was recent. I

24:09

mean, I think you have to look at somebody that

24:11

read the interview, seen, seen

24:14

the photo shoot, maybe somebody at the

24:16

club. I mean, those should be like

24:18

your major points

24:20

of interest to investigate out of

24:22

the block. And I'm wondering, had they ever look

24:24

into the flower store too? I mean, if she's been

24:27

there a few times, maybe she got somebody's attention

24:29

there. That's a good point.

24:31

I didn't see anything in the research

24:34

about that. Detectives searched

24:36

the area around Eve's apartment

24:38

and they found a torn copy of

24:41

the magazine featuring Eve. And

24:43

they also found other pornographic

24:45

magazines in the same place.

24:48

Eve had previously complained about a

24:50

man following her, but the only

24:52

description investigators had was that he

24:55

had a strained and stiff walk.

24:58

Strained and stiff. So

25:00

either he was really excited at

25:02

the time someone saw him,

25:05

or he had an issue with

25:07

his legs or his gait or, you

25:09

know, something like that. Yeah. Very

25:12

strange. Investigators learned

25:14

that other young women working at

25:16

the club received obscene phone calls

25:19

leading up to Eve's murder. One

25:22

woman reported that she received death

25:24

threats after she was

25:26

featured in Mayfair. Yeah.

25:28

I don't think it's strange that

25:30

they're getting obscene phone calls at that

25:32

time. I think there was probably

25:34

a lot of perverts that

25:37

visit the club, read the

25:39

magazine, read the magazine, looked at the

25:41

magazine. Yeah. As opposed to the perverts

25:44

of today or, well,

25:47

you know, you know, they didn't

25:49

have the internet back then to do that. So they would

25:52

just call people up on the phone and.

25:55

Well, the technology and you and I have talked

25:57

about that before in the 1970. not

26:01

as easy to figure out who was

26:03

calling you, right? Today it is much

26:05

easier. Now, people can

26:07

block numbers, they can use

26:10

fake numbers, there's ways to get

26:12

around it, but I do believe

26:15

there are probably less obscene

26:17

phone calls today than

26:20

there were back then. I

26:22

think it would be hard to pull off an obscene

26:24

phone call today. It's harder. Yeah. It's harder,

26:27

I'm sure. But the

26:29

one girl gets a death

26:32

threat call, I'm not surprised by

26:34

that too, that maybe someone saw

26:36

her in the magazine and said, that's

26:39

not something good for you to do and

26:41

I'm gonna call and let you know. That's

26:44

obscene. Yeah. So now

26:46

you could delve into an area

26:48

of someone who was

26:51

not aroused by these

26:53

women, but maybe

26:55

upset with these women for

26:58

what they were doing. Took issue with

27:01

their morals? Maybe. I

27:03

mean, I think you can't rule it

27:05

out. Eve had also

27:07

received several harassing phone calls

27:09

before she died. The caller

27:11

hung up without speaking or

27:14

whispered obscenities to her.

27:16

Eve received three phone calls on the day

27:19

of the murder. Every time she

27:21

answered, the caller didn't speak and

27:24

ended the call. So either they were

27:26

too afraid to talk or they just

27:28

wanted to hear her voice. But either way,

27:30

that would be a very scary thing. You

27:33

don't know what the intentions

27:35

are of the person on

27:37

the other end of that line. Why

27:39

are you doing this to me? Now,

27:41

it's obviously much more

27:44

ominous because we know she was killed

27:46

later that day. Yeah, I mean,

27:48

could it be somebody that has a crush on

27:50

her and they're afraid to talk because

27:52

they get nervous? Maybe, but kind

27:55

of unlikely. Well, three times is a

27:57

lot. That is a lot in one day. I could

27:59

see. somebody maybe, you know, you

28:01

want to ask somebody out, you, you

28:03

make the call and you

28:06

chicken out and decide that you

28:08

just can't do it and you hang up the phone.

28:11

I don't think you're going to call

28:13

back two more times and you're certainly

28:15

not going to whisper obscenities. No,

28:18

that's true. In that scenario. Yeah. That's not going to

28:20

get you to date. Well, most

28:23

likely. Right. That would never work. Several

28:26

women reported that their job could

28:28

be dangerous. One young woman

28:31

told the Sunday people that she

28:33

was raped after leaving the London

28:35

Playboy club in November, 1974. Another

28:39

woman was assaulted near the club and

28:42

during the assault, a woman in

28:44

a car screened, kill her, kill

28:47

her. So again, I, I

28:49

think, you know, this theory

28:52

of people being upset

28:55

about what some of these young women

28:57

were doing. You can't

28:59

just discount it completely. Cause

29:01

there are things here that, that kind of back it

29:03

up. I mean, what kind of woman

29:06

sees another woman being assaulted and

29:09

screams, kill her, kill her. Unless

29:12

she knows what that woman

29:14

does for a living and believes

29:17

that. It's so bad.

29:19

It's so bad that she's not worthy

29:21

of being alive or it's okay to

29:23

assault her. The police wanted

29:25

to question all 240 women at the club about previous attacks

29:30

to build a list of suspects.

29:32

That's smart. Yeah, I think

29:34

it is. Six months later, a teenage

29:37

girl was killed in West London,

29:39

but it would take over 30 years for

29:42

her case to be linked to Eats

29:45

on September 3rd, 1975. 16

29:48

year old Lynn Wheaton was raped

29:50

and murdered while walking home in

29:52

Hounslow. West London. Lynn

29:55

went out with her friends that night. She

29:57

took the bus to meet them around 7 15. PM.

30:00

Her parents expected her to get back around 11

30:03

30, but Lynn never

30:05

came home. They went to sleep

30:07

and assume she missed the last bus.

30:10

See that's where me and you are a

30:12

little different. I don't think we

30:14

would have went to sleep. Yeah. And, and

30:16

again, I always hate to kind of

30:19

bad mouth the parents of

30:22

a murdered victim. It's really hard

30:25

to do. So what

30:27

I will say is I agree

30:29

with you because I was in

30:31

this situation many times with both my

30:34

kids. I just chose not

30:36

to go to sleep until I knew

30:38

for a fact they were home. Yeah.

30:40

It's just what I always did. Now,

30:42

my wife would go to sleep, but

30:44

she had to get up much earlier than

30:46

I did. And she knew that

30:49

I was going to stay up. So Lynn

30:51

and her friends went out to a pub

30:54

in Hounslow and left at 10 30

30:57

Lynn left the group at a junction

30:59

and started walking her normal route home.

31:02

She was walking along great West point

31:04

road and took a shortcut

31:06

through an alley called the short hedges

31:09

detectives believed she was followed on foot

31:11

and attacked in the alley, which

31:14

was just 50 yards from her home.

31:16

According to the paper, the evening

31:18

standard, this led the police

31:21

to theorize that the killer was a

31:23

local or someone who knew the area

31:25

very well. Lynn was hit on

31:27

the head with a heavy blunt object. The

31:30

killer then threw her over a

31:32

fence into the grounds of

31:34

an electricity substation and

31:36

raped her around 7 30 AM on September

31:38

4th, the

31:41

daughter of a school caretaker whose

31:44

house overlooked the substation found Lynn.

31:47

She was unconscious and

31:49

seriously injured. Lynn had

31:51

two skull fractures, facial

31:54

lacerations and was

31:56

experiencing hypothermia. She'd been

31:59

outside for over. seven hours. Wow.

32:01

Long time. Lynn

32:03

never regained consciousness. She

32:06

died at the West Middlesex hospital

32:09

on September 10th. Her cause

32:11

of death was determined to be a

32:14

brain hemorrhage. No murder

32:16

weapon was ever found at the crime scene.

32:18

So again, this was

32:21

a very brutal, rape

32:23

and murder. Two

32:25

skull fractures, lacerations to

32:27

her face, and then, you

32:30

know, essentially just left to

32:33

die. But I can see the thought

32:35

behind thinking that it's somebody local, knowing

32:37

the streets, knowing maybe

32:39

where that substation was. The

32:42

alley, the shortcut, the short

32:44

hedges. Yeah, I could see

32:46

that. Now, could it be that

32:49

this person just followed her? Absolutely.

32:51

On her way home from,

32:53

you know, being out. That's

32:56

possible as well. Around the

32:58

time of the murder, the man was out

33:00

walking his dog and saw a

33:02

man walking down the alley where Lynn was

33:04

attacked. Other witnesses reported seeing

33:07

a man running across the road

33:09

into the alleyway. It's

33:11

believed that this unidentified man was

33:13

the killer. In October, 1975, the

33:16

Liverpool police found newspaper

33:18

reports about Eve's murder. Smeared

33:21

with lipstick in an

33:23

empty apartment. There were

33:25

also photos of Eve that looked like

33:27

they had been stabbed with a dart.

33:30

A landlord found them while cleaning

33:32

up after two male tenants moved

33:34

out. It's a little strange, but

33:36

is it that strange? I

33:38

think it's pretty strange. I got to be

33:40

honest with you. Now, could it be

33:42

that, you know, these photos came

33:45

out of a magazine and they just

33:47

needed something to throw the darts at?

33:49

I guess so. But it

33:52

does seem as though maybe

33:54

somebody had an issue with her.

33:57

And maybe she rejected him or them. them

34:00

at one time? Yeah, it doesn't mean

34:02

that they were killers, but it seems like they

34:05

had an issue. By 1976, all

34:08

leads in Eve's case were exhausted.

34:11

Over the years, the murders of Eve

34:13

Stratford and Lynn Whedon have

34:15

been linked to other cases

34:17

like the 1977 murder of

34:20

Elizabeth Parra-Vincena, which

34:23

occurred just one mile away from where

34:25

Lynn was attacked. She was killed

34:27

under similar circumstances. And

34:30

detectives immediately speculated the two

34:33

murders were connected. On

34:35

September 9th, 1977, 27-year-old Elizabeth Parra-Vincena was

34:37

attacked and

34:42

murdered while walking home alone. Like

34:44

Lynn, Elizabeth was walking

34:46

home late at night along

34:48

Great West Road. She

34:50

was attacked from behind when she turned

34:53

on to Osterley Road. The

34:55

killer hit her on the head with a blunt

34:57

object and dragged her into

34:59

some shrubbery. There was no

35:01

evidence of sexual assault. Detectives

35:03

believed the attacker was disturbed

35:06

before he could rape Elizabeth and

35:09

fled. And that's always a

35:11

possibility. And I do think

35:13

this is something to

35:15

talk about. You know, the

35:17

fact that someone, a victim

35:20

is not sexually assaulted, doesn't

35:22

necessarily mean that the

35:25

murderer didn't have designs

35:27

on doing that. You

35:29

know, they, they could have been disturbed.

35:32

Somebody could have driven by. They

35:34

were afraid of getting caught.

35:37

And so they weren't able

35:39

to do everything they, they wanted

35:41

to do. And I guess, you

35:44

know, what that leads me into is

35:46

comparing cases. Yeah.

35:49

So if you have someone who's

35:51

murdered and sexually assaulted, and

35:53

then you have a subsequent murder,

35:56

but there is no sexual assault,

35:59

I don't think you can.

36:01

automatically say that the two

36:03

aren't related or connected

36:05

because they have different

36:08

components or they don't have the same

36:10

component because the police could be right

36:12

here. They could be. It's

36:14

not like this perpetrator

36:17

took Elizabeth to a

36:19

secluded location or back to

36:22

you know some. How

36:25

was right when he

36:27

could have complete privacy

36:30

is that on the side of the road in

36:32

some shrubs so it's not

36:34

inconceivable that somebody could have

36:36

been walking their dog or

36:38

you know driving by any

36:40

got scared. You can't discount it

36:43

no i don't think you can. In

36:45

nineteen eighty three the public

36:47

learn that detective interviewed in

36:50

imprisoned police officer is part

36:52

of an inquiry into the

36:54

murders of eve strafford when

36:56

we didn't and

36:58

elizabeth paravansina. Officer

37:00

paul thomas was jailed for over

37:02

five years for sex crimes and

37:05

had a history of targeting

37:07

schoolgirls. He also had

37:09

a history of harassing women

37:11

with anonymous phone calls however

37:14

he had an alibi for the

37:16

time of elizabeth murder. Another

37:19

case that has been connected to

37:21

ease strafford is the nineteen

37:23

seventy nine murder of linda ferrer

37:25

who was murdered inside her home

37:28

she lived only about five miles from

37:30

me. Linda was a twenty

37:32

nine year old mother of two she

37:35

was four months pregnant with her third child

37:38

when she died linda worked as

37:40

a group a. Person

37:42

who manages a gambling table

37:45

and establishment in the west end

37:47

of london she was stabbed

37:49

to death on january nineteen nineteen

37:51

seventy nine. As she came

37:53

home from her ship according to

37:55

the mirror linda heard the

37:57

phone ring and when inside. forgetting

38:00

to shut the door behind her. Two

38:02

girls passing by heard a

38:05

woman shriek and saw the

38:07

front door slam. The killer cut her

38:09

throat with a knife. Like

38:11

Eve, her wounds were so

38:13

severe that her head was

38:15

almost severed. Maybe this

38:17

perpetrator was in the West End,

38:20

visited the Playboy Club, and

38:23

also visited this

38:25

gambling establishment. Yeah. And

38:28

it's very possible. You know,

38:30

and at those two places,

38:33

saw Eve, saw Linda,

38:36

and decided to target

38:38

them. But I want to go

38:40

back to, you know, these two girls

38:42

passing by, hearing a woman shriek

38:45

and then the front door slamming.

38:47

And that same question kind of comes

38:49

up. What do you do with that

38:51

information? What does it mean to you? Could

38:54

it mean that somebody dropped

38:56

a glass and

38:58

cried out because they were

39:00

upset? Or, you know, I don't know. It

39:03

depends on what the shriek sounded

39:06

like to me. Right. Because

39:08

there are different types of shriek.

39:10

There's the, oh my gosh,

39:13

I'm about to die shriek. And

39:16

there's the, you know, there's the surprise

39:18

shriek. And again, we don't know

39:20

how old these girls were. It

39:23

could have made a difference. That could make a

39:25

difference of whether they would even

39:27

think to go back and maybe tell

39:29

an adult what they heard. And

39:31

maybe they did tell an adult, and the adult said,

39:33

I don't know what that means. I

39:36

didn't hear it. I don't want to get involved. Or

39:38

by the time they told the adults, maybe

39:40

she was already discovered. And

39:42

so there was no reason for them

39:44

to do anything besides the fact, tell

39:47

the police, oh yeah, my daughter's walked

39:49

by and heard. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's

39:51

a possibility as well, because

39:53

unfortunately Linda's eight and 11 year

39:56

old daughters came home from school

39:58

around 20 minutes. And

40:01

it's believed that the killer was still in

40:03

the house at this point and

40:05

escaped out the back door. The

40:08

girls peeked through the letterbox and

40:10

saw Linda's body in the hall. So

40:13

unbelievably tragic, you know,

40:15

to lose your mother.

40:18

Extremely tragic to

40:20

lose your mother in such a horrific

40:22

way. Yeah, and to discover the body

40:25

laying in the hallway by looking through the

40:27

letterbox. Another level of tragedy. Yeah. The

40:31

police saw footprints leading to Linda's front

40:33

door, which were made by a Wellington

40:35

boot. Papers from

40:37

1979 compared the case

40:40

to the murder of Eve Stratford because

40:42

of the method of murder and

40:44

the fact that they worked in clubs in London.

40:47

So you pointed out that similarity.

40:50

There was also the similarity

40:52

of how badly both

40:55

women's throats were cut to

40:58

the point that each of

41:00

their heads were almost severed. At the

41:03

time, it was reported that detectives

41:05

were seeking a man who was seen

41:07

running near Linda's home. He was

41:10

described as being in his

41:12

late 30s, 5'9 with dark

41:14

but graying curly hair and

41:17

long sideburns below his ears. He

41:19

was wearing a navy blue jacket,

41:21

dark jeans, and Wellington

41:23

boots. A bus driver

41:25

spotted the man running and stopped because

41:27

he thought he wanted to board the bus,

41:30

but he just kept on running. Now,

41:32

I don't do a lot of running. I

41:34

think I've made that very clear.

41:39

But when I did run, I

41:42

definitely wasn't going out in jeans and, you

41:44

know, like a work boot. That

41:47

wouldn't be most people's choice of

41:49

footwear to go out jogging, not

41:52

the proper running attire. No,

41:54

you don't see a lot of people competing in

41:56

the Olympics in construction

41:58

boots. Well, that could be a new

42:01

fun version of the Olympics. Like every

42:03

participant in that event has to wear

42:05

construction boots. Yeah, I get you. It'd

42:08

be good for the boot makers out

42:10

there. I think it could also

42:12

severely jack up your feet. Well,

42:14

that's true too. And I don't think they're made for

42:16

running. Another

42:19

murder that is often referenced in

42:21

connection to the murders of Lynn

42:23

Weeden and Eve Stratford is the

42:26

murder of 14 year old Patricia

42:28

Morse. Patsy was killed less

42:30

than two and a half miles from Lynn

42:32

Weeden at a nature reserve

42:34

called Hounslow Heat. Patsy

42:36

went missing on June 16th in 1980. She

42:40

disappeared during her lunch break at

42:42

Feltham comprehensive school. Her

42:45

body was found on June 18th in

42:47

some undergrowth. Her clothing had been

42:50

pushed up, but there was

42:52

no additional evidence of sexual

42:54

assault. Patsy was tied up

42:56

in a similar manner to Eve Stratford.

42:59

A pair of tights with a missing leg

43:01

was tied around her leg and

43:03

wound up until it nodded around her

43:05

neck. Her hands were tied behind

43:08

her back with the leg of her

43:10

tights. And another leg was tied

43:12

around her ankle. Kind

43:14

of complex there. Yeah, but

43:16

you can see why police

43:18

are drawing similarities. The

43:21

slashing of throats in some cases,

43:23

the, the tying up

43:26

using, you know, tights, pantyhose,

43:28

whatever, and in other cases.

43:31

In 2004, the London

43:33

Metropolitan Police's murder review

43:35

group reopened Lynn Weeden's

43:37

case and conducted new

43:39

DNA testing. In July,

43:42

2006, her murder was linked to

43:44

the murder of Eve Stratford based

43:47

on a DNA sample obtained

43:49

from Eve's dressing gown cord

43:51

and her ankle binding. So

43:54

we mentioned DNA earlier

43:57

on, but had to say it would

43:59

be many, many years. before the

44:01

authorities actually knew what DNA was and

44:04

before they could use it, it

44:06

sounds like they did a pretty good

44:09

job of collecting

44:11

and storing evidence. Yeah, great job

44:14

preserving it. To the point where

44:17

they were able to use it 30

44:19

plus years later. But even Lynn

44:21

didn't know each other. So

44:24

I mean, I think that just even

44:26

furthered the police's

44:28

belief that their cases

44:30

were connected, very unlikely

44:33

that they somehow

44:35

would have transferred DNA between

44:38

the two of them. So after all

44:40

this time, they finally were able to connect the

44:42

cases and they actually have something

44:44

to work with. Based on the

44:47

evidence in both cases, the police obtained

44:49

a list of 16 suspects. That's

44:52

a good list, I think. I think it

44:54

is. After all those years, Eve's

44:57

case was reopened in 2007 in

45:00

response to the unexpected DNA

45:02

connection. Additionally, investigators

45:05

took DNA evidence from the Linda

45:07

Farrow case and uploaded it

45:09

to the national database in 2007. Her

45:13

murder was not linked to

45:15

Eve, Stratford, or any other cases.

45:18

In April 2008, a man

45:20

walked into the Norfolk Police

45:22

Department and confessed to the

45:24

murder of Patsy Morris. He was

45:27

charged and released on bail. It

45:29

was later reported that he was mentally ill and

45:32

the charges were dropped. Later that

45:34

year, it was reported that Patsy had

45:36

a potential connection to

45:38

serial killer Levi Bellfield.

45:41

That year, Bellfield was convicted of two

45:43

murders and attempted murder.

45:45

In 2011, he was convicted

45:47

of murdering a schoolgirl and

45:50

he's a suspect in several unsolved

45:52

crimes. Bellfield lived

45:55

near the Patsy Morris crime scene. Now,

45:58

he would have only been 12 years old. when

46:00

Patsy was killed, but he did

46:02

receive his first conviction for burglary

46:04

at the age of 13. So

46:08

is it inconceivable? No,

46:11

we've seen people kill at very

46:13

young ages. Sure have. You know,

46:16

he was known for his truancy

46:18

in school and he

46:20

did frequent Hounslow Heat when

46:22

he should have been in class. And it

46:25

was known that he did not attend school on

46:27

the day of Patsy's murder. I

46:29

mean, 12 years old seems really young, but

46:32

we've seen it before. Yeah, it's not

46:34

impossible. Some sources reported

46:36

that he and Patsy were classmates, but

46:39

the police later established that he was

46:41

enrolled at a different school when she

46:43

was murdered and did not

46:45

move to her school until after she died.

46:48

However, he reportedly bragged to a

46:50

cellmate that he did murder Patsy

46:53

when he was only 12 years old.

46:55

And you gotta ask why? Unless

46:57

he actually really did it. Yeah,

47:00

but if he's already caught, he knows he's

47:02

never getting out. Maybe, maybe he's, you know,

47:04

he's just trying to puff himself

47:07

up, get some more cred. Who knows?

47:10

Once the media reported this

47:12

information, Patsy's father, George, revealed

47:14

that after she was killed,

47:17

he received the death threat over

47:19

the phone from an unidentified boy.

47:21

He thought he sounded like a

47:23

vocal. Bellfields, former partners

47:26

mentioned that he hated Blondes and

47:28

targeted them as victims. Patsy

47:31

Morris was Blondes. I

47:33

mean, it sounds like you can make a

47:35

convincing case. Yeah, there's, I

47:38

mean, it's circumstantial, but there's a

47:40

lot of smoke there. I would

47:42

definitely say that. Obviously,

47:44

he was a very bad guy

47:46

for sure. Now, could he

47:48

have killed or began his, you

47:50

know, killing at the age of 12? Absolutely,

47:54

he could have. You

47:57

know, most killers don't start that early, but...

48:00

Some do. Some do. Another

48:02

potential suspect was serial killer

48:05

Peter Tobin, who was sentenced for

48:07

rape and murder in 2006. We

48:10

covered him, right? Yep. On

48:13

TCAT? I thought we did. The police found the

48:15

bodies of two girls who went missing in 1991 at his home in

48:17

Kent. Tobin

48:20

previously served 14 years in prison

48:23

for a double rape conviction and

48:25

was in London when Patsy was murdered. Tobin

48:28

died in 2022. He

48:30

was a bad dude. Yeah, he was. But

48:33

this is natural, right? If

48:35

you have a known killer

48:38

or serial killer who

48:40

operated or was

48:43

in the location around

48:45

the time of these

48:47

murders, that person is going to be

48:49

looked at. Oh yeah. Especially

48:52

if the victim

48:54

fits kind of their MO,

48:56

their profile, something

48:59

like that. And

49:01

if there's any type of connection.

49:03

You look at this Levi Bellfield,

49:06

well, he lived really close to the

49:08

Patsy Morris crime scene. It's

49:11

not like this guy lived four hours

49:13

away. Yeah, he was in the same

49:15

neighborhood. So pretty

49:17

natural that you would at least take a

49:19

look at him. Now, can you prove it

49:21

was him? That's a different story. Same

49:23

with Peter Tobin. He was

49:26

in London. Now that's a

49:28

big city. So how

49:31

close he was to Patsy, I

49:33

don't know, but you're at least

49:35

going to take a look at it. In

49:38

2015, the police issued a public

49:40

appeal for information and offered a

49:42

40,000 pound reward. And

49:44

in the Eve Stratford and Lynn Weeden cases,

49:47

DCI Noel McHugh told

49:49

the Guardian, DNA

49:51

work is complex and lengthy. And

49:54

we are still following this line of

49:56

inquiry. However, I firmly believe

49:58

there is someone out there. who has

50:00

information about who carried out these

50:02

murders. It's inconceivable the

50:05

killer of Eve and Lynn has

50:07

kept the perfect secret for 40 years.

50:10

It's a heavy burden to carry and

50:12

he must have let details slip over

50:14

the years, maybe to a partner or

50:17

friend, even a cellmate. And

50:19

I would appeal to anyone with information

50:22

to contact us. He went on to say,

50:24

the man who carried out these murders is

50:27

now of a different older generation.

50:30

I would imagine he must have reflected

50:32

upon his actions every day over

50:35

the past 40 years. So

50:37

this is an interesting subject to

50:39

me. You have

50:42

someone who kills one

50:44

or multiple people at

50:46

an early age. I don't know if it's 12, but let's say it's

50:48

18, 19, 20 and

50:51

40 years goes by. Now they're 60 years

50:54

old. People change a lot

50:56

from 18 to 60. Does

51:01

this person feel a

51:03

lot differently today if

51:05

they're still alive about what they did? Now,

51:08

I don't know that the self

51:10

preservation thing changes all that much.

51:13

Nobody really wants to go to prison for

51:15

the rest of their life. So,

51:19

this one investigator said, well, he kept the

51:22

perfect secret. To me, if you're a

51:24

lone killer, I

51:26

don't see why you would ever tell anyone what

51:28

you've done. Yeah, because there's no

51:30

reason to. There's no benefit. I

51:33

get it. It's a heavy burden, but

51:35

there's no benefit in telling anyone. There's

51:37

only a very, very

51:40

big downside, which is that

51:42

person could rat you out. And

51:44

the next thing you know, you're never

51:46

seeing daylight again. Some have

51:48

speculated that the women could be

51:51

victims of Peter Sutcliffe, also

51:53

known as the Yorkshire Ripper. We

51:55

did him as well, and man, he was

51:57

a nasty guy too. He was. Sutcliffe

52:00

died from COVID in November of 2020.

52:03

He was convicted of 13 murders and

52:06

seven attempted murders. And

52:08

the police suspect that he's involved in

52:10

at least 30 unsolved murders. According

52:13

to the mirror. I think

52:15

he's one that is easy to try to

52:17

box these unsolveds. Oh

52:20

yeah, because he was such a bad

52:23

guy and he

52:25

did have a high number of known

52:27

murders and even a higher

52:29

number of murders that

52:32

it's thought he could be connected to.

52:35

So yeah, if something happened

52:37

anywhere that he was around and

52:40

he was active during that time, which we know

52:42

he was, then he

52:45

definitely is going to be

52:47

someone that's brought up. What I do think

52:49

is interesting is that with a

52:51

lot of these guys, we did the episodes

52:53

so many years ago, that

52:55

they've now died. Yeah. And

52:58

they were alive. I believe at the

53:00

time we probably did the episode. I

53:02

know Peter Sutcliffe was, and

53:04

I believe that Tobin was alive

53:06

as well when we did the

53:08

episode. A

53:10

government mandated report about

53:13

the West Yorkshire Police's investigation

53:15

stated that Sutcliffe was probably

53:17

responsible for numerous attacks on

53:19

other women between 1969 and

53:21

1980. I

53:25

don't think they're going very far out

53:27

on the limb on that one. No.

53:29

I think that is a given. I

53:32

think with a guy like Peter Sutcliffe, if

53:35

you can pin X number

53:37

of murders and assaults on him,

53:39

the number that you

53:41

don't know about is

53:43

probably even greater. I truly

53:45

believe that. According to X

53:48

intelligence officer Chris Clark, who

53:50

wrote a book titled The Secret Murders,

53:53

Sutcliffe was near Eve's home for

53:55

his sister-in-law's wedding, which

53:57

took place four days after she was murdered.

54:00

And her murder had the same signature

54:03

as other confirmed victims.

54:05

The murder of Lynn Whedon also

54:08

had the same MO and he was in

54:10

London at that time as well. He

54:12

visited a home in North London and

54:14

took a flight from the Heathrow Airport,

54:17

which was four miles from the crime

54:19

scene. So making a

54:22

good case for it. Yeah, I mean

54:24

it's it's not definitive. It doesn't prove

54:26

that that Sutcliffe

54:28

was involved in these murders. What

54:30

you know for sure is that

54:32

he was capable of

54:35

the murders. We know that. And

54:38

now it sounds like he was at

54:40

least in the area at

54:43

the time that the murders took place. So I think

54:45

you have to take that pretty seriously. The

54:48

Mirror reported that the police have

54:50

Sutcliffe's mouth swab and hair in

54:53

their national database, but not a blood

54:55

sample. Not surprised that

54:57

they would have that. No, neither.

55:00

I would think as

55:02

long as it's not completely

55:04

degraded, they could get a

55:06

DNA sample off of that.

55:08

I'm surprised they don't already have a DNA

55:11

sample. Well, they could. They're just keeping

55:13

it under wraps. But

55:15

it's probably what it's going to take right at

55:18

this point to conclusively

55:20

say that this person

55:22

or that person committed the murders. I

55:24

mean, you can talk about all

55:27

the serial killers who

55:29

operated in and around that area

55:31

all you want. You know, you

55:34

can bring up Peter Sutcliffe, Levi

55:37

Bellfield, Peter Tobin, all

55:39

these different people. And

55:41

you could really say that all of them could

55:44

have done it. They were

55:46

capable of doing it, no doubt.

55:48

But it could be someone else

55:51

entirely. I just

55:53

think to definitively say

55:56

that this person was the

55:59

killer It's going to take

56:01

something in the area of DNA and

56:03

it's good because they have DNA. We know

56:05

they do, but we do a lot

56:08

of unsolved cases where they have DNA. And

56:10

a lot of times, you know, you think, well, okay,

56:12

if you got DNA, we're going to be able

56:14

to solve the case, but that doesn't

56:17

always happen. You know, if you

56:19

can't match that DNA to someone,

56:23

meaning the perpetrators DNA

56:25

is not in the database or

56:27

you can't, you know, figure

56:29

out something using like

56:31

genetic genealogy, and maybe

56:33

they could, and they just haven't, you know,

56:35

gone down that route yet, then

56:37

you're never going to most

56:40

likely solve some of

56:42

these really old cases. I

56:44

just don't believe somebody's going to come forward at

56:46

this point. I don't think so either. They

56:49

would have come forward by now. Yes. Yes.

56:52

Most likely, unless the

56:54

killer is still alive and there's somebody

56:56

who knows who it is, but

56:58

they won't come forward until that person is

57:00

dead. I do think

57:03

in some cases there is

57:05

that possibility. Either they're

57:07

afraid that this person is going to kill them.

57:10

Yeah. Or they

57:12

just want to wait until this person

57:14

dies and then they'll come forward and make

57:16

the statement, make the statement or tell what

57:18

they know. It's been over 40 years.

57:21

Since the murders of Eve

57:24

Stratford, Lynn Weeden, Elizabeth Paravancina,

57:26

Linda Farrow and Patsy Morris.

57:28

I mean, there's a very

57:30

good chance that the

57:32

killer or killers, depending

57:35

on what you believe, they're either

57:37

dead or they're pretty

57:40

old at this point. Oh yeah. I

57:42

would think unless they killed when

57:44

they were 12, 15, even 20, that would put them

57:48

at still maybe in their 60. Right.

57:51

It's not that old. I mean,

57:53

there's a chance that one or

57:55

some of these could be solved. Yeah. There's

57:57

always a chance. But. The

58:00

further we go to me

58:03

the more chance that the time

58:05

runs out before the

58:07

killer dies and then okay

58:10

great maybe years down the road

58:12

you solve it you can name

58:14

the killer but you really

58:16

can't do anything to the right.

58:19

But even if that was the case

58:21

let's say the killer was already dead

58:23

or is that at the time they

58:25

solve it i still think it's important

58:28

absolutely. Give you some type of

58:30

closure yeah because there's there's

58:32

still family members of

58:35

the victims who are living and they're

58:37

living with that burning question

58:40

yeah who did this why did

58:42

they do it now they met now they may

58:44

never get the why. What they might

58:46

get to who at some point in the

58:48

who might lead to the why we don't

58:50

know also kind of scary how many serial

58:53

killers were operating in the area. Law

58:56

me but we find the same thing here

58:58

in the state every time we research it's

59:00

like there was three or four serial killers

59:02

operating in the same area at the same

59:05

time. But that's it for our

59:07

episode on the murder of eve

59:09

stratford we got some voicemails give you

59:11

a check those out and hear. Hey

59:13

mike and gibi this is thomas

59:16

calling again from montreal canada i

59:19

called before but i just

59:21

keep getting farther and farther into the podcast

59:23

and i absolutely love you guys. I

59:26

want to let you know that i had a rough start

59:29

to the year and i just want to say that literally

59:31

you guys and your podcast have gotten me

59:33

through the last couple of months. And

59:36

i'm in a much better place now i've got

59:38

a new job and i'm really really happy so

59:41

i just want to thank you guys for you know just

59:43

being there for me and. And

59:46

really really just enjoying the podcast so keep

59:48

up the great work and keep your own

59:50

time ticking guys thanks guys. Yeah

59:52

thanks for the very positive voicemail we love

59:54

you too sorry to hear that you had

59:56

a rough start but it sounds like things

59:59

have turned around. down already. Yeah, doing

1:00:01

better and that's a great job. That's

1:00:03

awesome. Yeah. We appreciate it

1:00:05

very much. David, and he's

1:00:07

like, don't ever, for any reason, do

1:00:09

anything to anyone, for any reason, ever.

1:00:12

All right, you're right. No one should have

1:00:14

anyone. Goodbye. So

1:00:18

I might have cut off the beginning. It was a little hard to

1:00:20

hear, but basically,

1:00:23

I think she was talking about something that you

1:00:25

were saying in an episode and

1:00:28

what she was referring to, and I don't

1:00:30

know if you remember, there's an episode of

1:00:32

The Office where Michael

1:00:36

is being asked by the big

1:00:38

boss like how he's doing it. How's

1:00:40

he making the branch so

1:00:42

good? And he said, I have like this

1:00:45

thing that I live by. And that's kind of, and

1:00:47

then he just goes into this ramble. Oh, okay. Never,

1:00:50

ever, ever, under any circumstances,

1:00:52

do anything to anyone at

1:00:54

any time. I

1:00:57

got a kick out of it, but I think

1:00:59

I cut off the first part. Now we all

1:01:02

know. Now we all, I had to explain it,

1:01:04

but it was funny. So appreciate that voicemail. All

1:01:06

right, buddy, you got anything else? No. All

1:01:09

right, that is it for another episode of

1:01:11

True Crime All the Time Unsolved. So for

1:01:13

Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your

1:01:15

own time ticking. Thanks

1:01:52

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