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I see. Because if I do that, I'm a hush

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I'm a ex the lawyer, let me hurt you.

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1:04

Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode

1:06

three hundred of the True Crime All

1:08

the Time Unsolved Podcast. I'm Mike

1:10

Ferguson, and with me as always, is my partner

1:13

in True Crime. Mike Gibson, give

1:15

me how are you? Good, man. How about yourself?

1:17

I I'm Amazing. I

1:19

just can't believe that we

1:22

hit episode three hundred. I can't either,

1:24

man. It's awesome. It's a huge milestone I

1:27

remember when we hit it on True Crime

1:29

all the time. Yeah. And I kinda

1:31

feel the same way. You know, I think

1:33

back to, you know, late

1:36

two thousand sixteen, when

1:38

we started t cat what was it?

1:40

January of two thousand seventeen, I think when

1:42

we started I think so. Unsolved,

1:45

something like that. Yeah. Remember. And I

1:47

and I go back to what did we think

1:49

was gonna happen? Did we think we'd have

1:52

six hundred plus episodes between

1:54

the two? No.

1:56

No. was just coming out for the free meal. Yeah.

1:58

And you continue to come out for the free meal.

2:01

Three hundred and six plus down, man.

2:04

Hey, let's go ahead and give our Patreon

2:06

shout outs. We had Nancy Dingmann. Hey,

2:08

Nancy. Aaron Pasavinto. What's

2:10

going on there in? Holly Anderson. Hey, Holly.

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Test Heard. Well, thank you, test. Kirk

2:14

Lewis. Hey, there's Kirk. Just Kathleen.

2:17

Well, appreciate that. Just Kathleen. Amy.

2:19

Oh, good to Amy. Tammy Andre.

2:22

Well, thank you, Tammy. Amber, Gruulkowski,

2:24

and Alyssa Freeward.

2:26

Oh, there's the Gruulkowski and Freeward.

2:28

Jumped out at our highest level. Andy

2:31

Godwin. What's

2:31

up, Andy? Madison Theroldson. Hey,

2:34

Madison. Sam Gaffey. Hey. Thank you, Sam.

2:36

Terry Pringle. What up

2:37

Pringle? Who you thought was part

2:39

of the Pringle fortune? They

2:41

are. Okay. There's just an incognito.

2:45

Amonde Cusick. Hey, Amonde.

2:47

Madison Postman. Hey, Madison.

2:50

Christine

2:50

Churchill. Appreciate

2:51

that Churchill. Landido. Landido.

2:54

And Ryan Bessi. Look at Ryan. Thank

2:56

you. So we appreciate all that new

2:58

support. And then if we go back into

3:00

the vault. This

3:02

week, we selected Meghan

3:04

Value.

3:05

You're awesome, Meghan. Yeah. We very

3:07

much appreciate that continued patreon

3:09

support. We had one PayPal donation

3:12

from Deanna

3:13

Johnson.

3:13

Thanks, Deanna. Yeah. Thanks to everyone.

3:16

Right? Gives right now on True Crime all the

3:18

time. We have an episode out

3:21

on Nathan Gail. You know,

3:23

an inter staying episode about

3:25

a a guy who developed an obsession

3:27

with the band Panther -- Yeah.

3:30

-- heavy metal rock band that

3:32

led to him murdering a

3:34

number of people at a concert. So

3:37

I don't wanna give too much way I

3:39

want people to check out the

3:41

app, so definitely check it out. Alright, buddy.

3:43

Are you ready to get into this

3:46

three hundredth episode of True

3:48

Crime all the time Unsolved. I am so

3:50

ready. We are talking about

3:52

Jack the Ripper. The infamous

3:55

unidentified serial killer

3:57

who killed women in White Chapel,

3:59

East London, in the late

4:02

nineteenth century, The White

4:04

Chapel Murder spree is one of the most

4:06

famous unsolved cases in the

4:08

world. So no doubt, a

4:10

very big case, a case that you

4:12

and I have had on our list from the very

4:14

beginning. It's a case we've always

4:16

known that we were going to do. You

4:19

know, a lot of times with these really big

4:21

cases, kinda put them off,

4:23

they are tough to do. They are from

4:26

a number of different standpoints. Number

4:29

one, there's so much out there. You know,

4:31

you you gotta make sure you're getting

4:33

the right facts and you're you're weaving

4:35

the story together. But number two,

4:38

There are a lot of people that probably know

4:40

this case inside and out. Oh, absolutely.

4:43

Way better than you and I will ever know.

4:45

Republicans ripriorologists --

4:47

Yeah. -- or or just people that have that

4:50

have an intense interest in it. So,

4:52

you know, they're hard to do from that standpoint.

4:55

In that there are some people who are gonna

4:57

say, why didn't you talk about this? Why didn't

4:59

you talk about that? It just comes with

5:01

the territory. In part one

5:04

of the Jack Ripper episodes, we'll

5:06

discuss why this unknown killer

5:08

is so infamous followed by

5:10

a timeline of the murders. And

5:12

we'll talk about the infamous Jack

5:14

the Ripper letters. According

5:17

to Britannica, for well over a

5:19

century, was reported that

5:22

all of the Jack the Ripper victims

5:24

were female sex workers and

5:26

all but one victim was killed

5:28

while soliciting customers on

5:30

this street. However, recent

5:33

reports show that this is

5:35

likely not true, and only one

5:37

victim was actually a full

5:39

time sex worker We'll

5:41

discuss this more in detail in

5:43

in part two. The common belief

5:46

that Jack the Ripper killed sex workers

5:49

was a consequence of

5:51

the misogynistic and class

5:53

based prejudices characteristic

5:56

of the Victorian era. That

5:58

Victoria or or that.

6:01

However, according to Britannica, what

6:03

is true is that all the victim's

6:06

strokes were cut in all but one

6:08

were mutilated in a manner

6:11

indicating that the murderer had at

6:13

least some knowledge of human

6:15

anatomy. And it's a big part of

6:17

this case. Right? It leads into suspects

6:22

this notion that you

6:24

know, whoever it was had

6:27

some sort of

6:30

medical training or medical

6:32

knowledge. Did you take anatomy course? I

6:34

did. Yeah. Would

6:35

you did you like it? I did. Yeah.

6:37

You seemed to be pretty good with it. Okay.

6:39

Is that is that the extent of your questioning?

6:41

Just for now, make a hell of a detective? I know.

6:44

Question number one. Okay. Jack

6:46

DeRipper killed his victims in White

6:48

Chapel. An area of East London

6:51

in the late nineteenth century. White

6:53

Chapel was a densely populated

6:55

area. With seventy eight thousand

6:58

people in half square mile.

7:00

That's a lot of people. It is. If

7:02

you think about what a half a square

7:04

mile is, But despite

7:07

this, Jack the Ripper was

7:09

never caught. Now you could say Now

7:11

I said despite this, I could

7:13

also make the argument that wouldn't

7:16

that make it harder to

7:18

catch the person. I think it possibly

7:20

could make it harder. If you had

7:22

four people in a

7:25

half a square mile area. Okay?

7:27

Maybe a little easier to identify

7:30

which one of the four. Is Jack

7:32

the Ripper, especially weeks down the road when there was

7:34

no longer four? There's only one.

7:36

Yeah. I think you and I had talked about

7:39

it before, but I really got into

7:41

this show called Ripper

7:42

Street.

7:43

Yeah. I did too. That's a it's a really

7:45

good show. Yeah. I think it was

7:47

on Netflix and maybe maybe it still

7:49

is. Obviously, it's a period

7:51

piece that goes back to this

7:53

point in time that we're talking about.

7:56

And initially, they do focus on

7:58

Jack to Ripper, it kind of expands later

8:00

on in the show. But it's really good for

8:02

those of you that that haven't checked it out.

8:05

The identity of Jack to Ripper is still

8:07

unknown today. According to Britannica,

8:10

at the time, there was great public

8:12

uproar because the police

8:14

failed to catch the killer. Both

8:16

the home secretary and London

8:18

police commissioner were the targets

8:20

of heavy criticism and

8:23

the police commissioner resigned. So,

8:25

I mean, we see that today. Right?

8:28

In high profile cases, there

8:31

is often or almost

8:34

always a lot of pressure put

8:36

on the police to, you

8:39

know, catch a a serial

8:41

killer, to stop them from

8:44

claiming their next victim?

8:46

Well, and these were very brutal murders.

8:48

As we're going to detail. Yeah. So,

8:50

you know, the public is hearing about

8:53

how brutal these are, you're

8:55

gonna want something done.

8:57

History dot com provides some important

9:00

context. For the time period, saying

9:02

in the late 1800s, London's

9:05

east end was a place that was viewed by

9:07

citizens with either compassion

9:10

or utter contempt. Despite

9:12

being an area where skilled immigrants, mainly

9:15

Jews and Russians, came to

9:17

begin a new life and start businesses

9:20

The district was notorious for squalor,

9:23

violence, and crime. They wrote

9:25

that prostitution was only

9:27

illegal. If the practice caused

9:30

a public disturbance in

9:32

thousands of brothels, in low rent

9:35

lodging houses, provided sexual

9:37

services during the late nineteenth

9:40

century. Public disturbance. So,

9:42

you know, to me, that is

9:45

basically saying that as long

9:47

as nobody knows about

9:48

it, it's not out in the open

9:51

and nobody complains. Do

9:53

what you must or want. Yeah. And

9:55

we're not gonna do anything about it. At

9:57

that time, the Daphne murder of a

9:59

working girl was rarely reported. In

10:01

the press, or disgust within

10:04

polite society. The reality

10:06

was that ladies of the night,

10:08

as they called them were subject to

10:11

physical attacks, which sometimes resulted

10:14

in death. So fast

10:16

forward to present day.

10:18

Okay? Not much has changed.

10:21

Not really. When it comes to

10:23

sex work, it's still a very

10:27

very dangerous occupation. And

10:30

we've detailed the reasons for that

10:32

on on numerous occasions. Number

10:34

one, you're often alone. You're

10:36

with someone who you you

10:38

really don't know. You don't know their intentions.

10:41

It can go south very quickly.

10:44

But the other thing is that you

10:46

get from this, that nobody really

10:48

care about the

10:51

murder of a sex worker

10:53

in the late eighteen hundred. And

10:55

they didn't because they looked at them as a

10:58

different social class. And

11:00

I would say The same

11:02

thing, fast forward -- Yeah. --

11:05

to today, go back ten,

11:07

twenty, thirty, forty years. I

11:09

don't know that it's been that much different.

11:12

Here in the United States. How

11:14

many cases have we done that

11:16

have involved sex workers? Where

11:18

it was so apparent that It

11:21

just seemed like the police didn't really

11:24

care. Nobody seemed to really care

11:27

because they thought It's a

11:29

sex worker. Yeah. Too too many

11:31

cases. Yeah. Too many cases. I

11:33

I just thought that was interesting because,

11:36

you know, we're talking about

11:38

what a hundred and some years.

11:40

Yeah. Not much has really

11:42

changed. No. Jack DeRipper was

11:44

active from August to November of

11:47

eighteen eighty eight. So not

11:50

a long time frame. All the

11:52

murders occurred within one mile of

11:54

each other in Whitechapel the

11:56

murder spree became known as

11:58

the Autumn of Terror. Now

12:00

about a dozen murders from

12:02

eighteen eighty eight to eighteen ninety

12:05

two have been attributed to

12:07

Jack the Ripper, but the police have

12:10

only linked protests, murders committed

12:12

in eighteen eighty eight to one

12:14

killer. A woman named Martha

12:17

Tabrum was stabbed to death on

12:19

August sixth eighteen eighty eight.

12:21

Some reparations we

12:24

talked about them. People who study or

12:26

have investigated Jack to Ripper

12:29

consider her to be the first

12:31

victim. And it is important

12:33

to note in this episode, we're

12:35

only going to be discussing what

12:38

is known as the canonical thought.

12:41

On August thirty first eighteen

12:43

eighty eight, forty two year old Mary

12:46

Anne Polly Nichols was

12:48

found dead in Bucks Row. Thomas

12:51

Street in Whitechap. She was

12:53

identified late on August thirty

12:55

first according to the morning post

12:57

The newspaper listed her age

12:59

as thirty six at the time. So,

13:02

again, nothing much

13:04

has changed there. Right. I

13:07

think journalists are much better

13:09

at ages today. When we go

13:11

back thirty, forty years ago

13:14

in research cases, using

13:16

old newspaper articles, people's

13:19

ages are all over the play. They

13:21

are. It it's it astounds me.

13:23

Not even close. Not even close sometimes.

13:26

The morning post reported on September

13:28

first that Mary Anne was living

13:31

apart from her husband and was

13:33

an inmate of a local workhouse.

13:35

For seven years. She left the workhouse

13:38

to work in domestic service, but

13:40

then left under what they termed

13:43

suspicious circumstances and

13:45

spent the last seven weeks of her life

13:47

in Whitechap. Mary Anne was seen

13:49

in Whitechap around two thirty

13:51

AM. On the night of her murder

13:54

and was under

13:56

the influence of drink. There's

13:58

a term you don't hear anymore. No. And

14:00

and I'm sure we're gonna be talking about a lot

14:02

of terms that, you know, we're

14:04

used back then that

14:07

wouldn't be used today. Some of them are

14:09

very derogatory, and

14:11

we'll try to clean those up. Sure. Because

14:13

when you look through the research, that

14:16

is something that has changed. Yeah. Absolutely.

14:19

I mean, what they said in the

14:21

papers back then would

14:23

never pass mustard today. Not

14:25

at all. And, you know, under

14:27

the influence of drink, everybody can figure out

14:29

what that means, but It just seems

14:32

like a strange way of saying. Right. The

14:34

paper reported this latest

14:36

crime was discovered yesterday morning

14:39

at a quarter past four when

14:41

police constable Jane Neil, who

14:43

was pacing his b, saw

14:45

in Bucks Road, Thomas Street,

14:48

White Chapel, a woman lying

14:50

on the pavement close to the door

14:52

of a stable yard leading

14:54

to Essex Wharf. Neil,

14:56

at once, perceived that the

14:58

woman had been the victim of a brutal

15:00

murder for her face was

15:02

stained with blood and her

15:05

throat was cut from ear to ear.

15:07

Prudel. Yeah, brutal. You know,

15:09

the other thing that that I thought

15:12

about was that, you

15:14

know, it seems as though

15:17

years and years ago. The papers

15:19

printed a lot more graphic

15:22

detail. You would think it would be the other

15:24

way around. It it's almost

15:26

as if it was very graphic, and

15:29

then we hit a stretch where it

15:31

got cleaned up. Right. And now we've kinda

15:34

gone

15:34

back, I think, to being a little more graphic.

15:36

I think back then, you didn't really have a lot of other

15:38

media sources. Right? You didn't have TV

15:41

No. So you really had to visualize what

15:43

you read. And I think the writers,

15:46

reporters, really

15:49

did a good job of trying to

15:51

walk your mind through. Yeah.

15:53

I was looking at it more as as a

15:56

societal change. You know,

15:58

III feel as though, like,

16:00

the fifties, maybe even

16:02

the sixties, forties, fifty, sixties,

16:05

things got toned down.

16:06

Well, absolutely. I agree with that too. Yeah.

16:09

As far as the newspaper articles

16:11

that we read or wholesome. Well,

16:13

yeah, it it was thought to have

16:15

been or they they wanted it to

16:17

be a more wholesome time. So we're

16:19

not gonna write about somebody's

16:22

throat being slashed from year to

16:24

year. Yeah. No. I don't know if they

16:26

experience the same thing in in

16:28

England or not, but I feel as

16:30

though we did here in in the States. It

16:32

was also sad that Mary Anne's

16:35

extremities were still worn, which

16:37

indicated that she had been killed

16:39

very recently, at the morgue

16:42

it was discovered that in addition

16:44

to the gash in her throat, which

16:46

had nearly severed the head from the body.

16:49

The lower part of her body had been

16:51

ripped up. The opening, extending

16:54

nearly to the breast. The instrument

16:57

with which the wounds were inflicted must

16:59

have been not only of the sharpness

17:02

of a razor. But used with

17:04

considerable force. So,

17:06

you know, you said something interesting which

17:09

is painting a picture

17:11

in your mind. Yeah. Okay. You

17:13

can do it based off these words.

17:16

It's a brutal image. Oh,

17:18

I'm visualizing it as I sit here.

17:21

On how that must have looked to

17:23

the person that's seen it. A woman

17:25

named missus Colell reported

17:27

that she was woken up. In the early morning

17:30

hours by her children who said

17:32

someone was trying to get into the house.

17:34

She said she heard a woman screaming murder

17:37

police, five to six

17:39

times, but the boys faded away.

17:41

Maybe that was her trying to get into the house to

17:43

get away from this individual.

17:46

But and obviously, if it was,

17:48

then the voice is going to fade away. Yeah.

17:50

Because at a certain point,

17:52

you're not gonna be able to scream murder

17:55

police with those type of wounds.

17:58

On September first, eighteen eighty

18:00

eight. The Guardian published an article

18:03

about the discovery of Mary

18:05

Anne Nichols. It read Mary Anne's

18:07

hands had bruises. That indicated

18:10

she struggled with her killer.

18:12

Some of her front teeth were knocked out.

18:14

She had bruises on both cheeks.

18:17

Mary Anne's clothes were torn and cut

18:19

in several places.

18:21

Okay. So some additional information

18:24

not as graphic, still horrible, but

18:27

not as graphic as what we

18:29

heard before. On September

18:31

eighth, eighteen eighty eight, forty

18:33

seven year old Annie Chapman was

18:35

found dead in the yard of a house

18:38

on Hanberry Street. The

18:40

observer reported on

18:42

September ninth. The circumstances of

18:45

the murder are of such a

18:47

revolting character. As

18:49

to point to the conclusion that

18:51

it has been perpetrated by

18:53

the same hand. As committed

18:55

that in Bucks Row, and

18:58

the two previous murders, all

19:00

of which have occurred within a stone's

19:02

throw of each other. The murdered woman

19:05

was known in the neighborhood by women

19:07

of the unfortunate class

19:10

as Annie Citi. But

19:12

her real name was Annie chat.

19:15

So two things jump out at me here.

19:18

Number one, very early

19:20

on. They're tying the murders together.

19:22

Right. But they also mention two

19:25

other murder. And then the second

19:28

part is known in the neighborhood

19:30

by women of the unfortunate

19:32

class, and there you

19:34

have it. Yes. I I think going

19:37

back to what you were saying earlier,

19:40

The police determined that the murder

19:42

was committed shortly before five thirty

19:44

AM. Witness Albert Kadish,

19:47

who lived next door to the house, needed

19:49

to go into the yard at five twenty

19:51

five. He heard a conversation on

19:54

the other side of the palings. Heard

19:56

someone say no, and then

19:59

a slight scuffle, and then

20:01

someone fell against

20:03

the failings. He thought it was just the neighbor.

20:05

So he didn't think much of it.

20:07

Okay. Five twenty five in the morning,

20:09

I'm not thinking much of anything. Me neither.

20:12

Not processing. I haven't had my coffee.

20:15

Now I get it. People got up earlier

20:17

back then they had stuff that had to get

20:19

done. Right. But if I'm outside, and

20:22

I hear what sounds to be an argument

20:24

or a fight and what I'm

20:26

saying is someone falling. I

20:29

say what? That's just the neighbors.

20:31

don't I don't go check it out. I

20:34

I found that odd. Well, maybe his neighbors

20:36

got into a lot of fights. Maybe maybe

20:38

and and maybe people back then just

20:40

said, you know what? Not my business. Not my

20:42

business. And sometimes I say that today.

20:44

Yeah. I get you in trouble with that seinfeld

20:47

wall today. Yeah. Definitely.

20:49

Just before six AM, a man

20:51

passing into the yard saw

20:53

what was described as a mutilated

20:56

max. Which caused him to

20:58

go shrinking a fright

21:00

into the street. You don't hear that much

21:02

anymore? A fright of fright.

21:05

Think about how bad it had to

21:07

be, what he saw. He's saying emulated

21:09

mass. Mass. Yeah.

21:12

That's a very strange term.

21:14

You're not saying body. You're not

21:16

saying woman. A

21:18

mass makes it sound as

21:21

if This is so bad.

21:23

I don't even know what I'm looking at.

21:25

It's just a pile of something that

21:27

is disturbing. And and you know it's

21:29

human, but Right? You're not sure what

21:31

it is. I mean, that okay.

21:34

I would probably go shrieking

21:36

a fright as well -- Yeah.

21:38

--

21:38

as you should. When the police arrived,

21:41

they found that the woman had been murdered

21:43

in a terribly brutal fashion.

21:45

It was obvious both from the marks

21:47

upon the body. And of the

21:49

splashes of blood upon

21:52

the pilings, which separate the dwellings one

21:54

from the other, that the woman while

21:56

lying down. Had her throat

21:58

first cut out and then was

22:00

ripped open and disemboweled

22:03

right there. Think about that. I mean,

22:05

we know it's brutal. This is beyond

22:08

brutal. It is, but then I go

22:10

back to the the neighbor hearing

22:13

this and saying,

22:14

oh, that's just the neighbor. I don't know. This

22:16

struck me as very -- Mhmm. --

22:18

odd. Yeah. I'm also thinking, you

22:20

know, seventy some thousand

22:22

people in this very condensed area.

22:25

But again, it is early morning. Yeah.

22:28

Five twenty five AM? Yeah.

22:29

You might you know, you don't have everybody out, obviously.

22:32

But nobody's really hearing

22:34

this activity occurring. Or if they

22:36

are, they're thinking the same thing as the

22:38

guy next next door is said, I must

22:40

just be the neighbors. Well, we yeah. Alright. And

22:42

I'm not and or I'm not getting involved.

22:44

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cap fifty to get fifty percent

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off your first box. The Observer

25:08

went on to say the perpetrator of

25:10

the Gaslady undoubtedly occupied

25:13

some considerable time in

25:15

doing his victim to death. It

25:18

appears that he not only killed the

25:20

object of his caprice

25:23

or passion, but afterwards, mutilated

25:26

her body in a terrible manner,

25:28

leaving the heart and liver lying

25:30

by the shoulder. There is on

25:32

every hand the one opinion

25:34

prevailing that the White Chapel

25:37

Murderers have been all enacted

25:39

by the same person. When you look

25:41

at how the bodies were

25:43

ripped apart, I can see that.

25:45

I can see tying them together.

25:48

Yeah. I mean, they're happening very

25:51

close together. That's one thing.

25:53

The slashing of the throat. Is

25:56

something. Right? But the

25:59

ripping. And and I'll use that

26:01

term because they used it. And obviously,

26:03

that's where the the moniker

26:05

comes from, Jack the Ripper, essentially

26:09

disemboweling -- Yeah. -- by ripping

26:12

the body all the way

26:14

up, it it had to have

26:16

looked so similar that

26:19

how could you not try

26:21

to connect it to the other

26:23

one. And then the two that happened

26:25

earlier, which we'll talk about

26:27

later. Do you realize how strong

26:30

this individual had to be and

26:32

as mentioned before how sharp

26:34

that knife had to

26:35

be. It has to be razor

26:38

sharp. Yeah. And it's a combination of of

26:40

the two, but it would take some fours. According

26:42

to the observer, like Mary Anne

26:44

Nichols, Annie also

26:47

had two of her front teeth missing.

26:49

So here again, you have another parallel.

26:52

Two women were found dad on the morning

26:55

of September thirtieth eighteen

26:57

eighty eight, Elizabeth Stride

26:59

and Catherine Adams. The

27:02

daily telegraph reported on October

27:04

first, two more murders of

27:06

the same cold blooded character is

27:09

those recently perpetrated in Whitechapel

27:11

were committed early yesterday morning

27:14

one in that district and the

27:16

other in the eastern part of the city.

27:18

Both the victims being unfortunate

27:22

women. The former outrage was

27:24

committed just within the entrance to

27:26

a badly lighted courtyard opening

27:29

off a narrow thoroughfare named

27:31

Bernard Street in the dead body.

27:34

Not yet cold was discovered shortly

27:37

before one AM. With the

27:39

throat cut. In the other case,

27:41

the scene of the tragedy was

27:44

Miley Square. A retired and

27:46

dark locality near oldgate.

27:49

The corpse in this instance also

27:52

was still warm when it was discovered at

27:55

a quarter to two in the morning,

27:57

but was much more mutilated,

28:00

the throat being cut, the abdomen

28:02

gashed, and the right ear

28:05

slashed off. The murderer left

28:07

no trace. Both crimes

28:09

were perpetrated within the space

28:11

of one hour. Early yesterday morning

28:14

on spots distant by

28:16

no greater interval than

28:18

a walk of eight or ten minutes. The

28:20

sufferers in each case seem to have been

28:22

taken from the same unfortunate

28:25

class to which the women Nichols and

28:27

Chapman belong. Okay? So

28:30

again, I think it's important that,

28:34

you know, we analyze the

28:36

writing of the time. Sure. And

28:38

obviously, it's where we have to get our information

28:41

from this case is from the the

28:43

late eighteen hundreds this unfortunate

28:46

class keeps coming up

28:48

time and time again. Yeah. Obviously,

28:51

we know that it means

28:53

sex work. Right? But I

28:55

I think the things here

28:57

to talk about, at least for me, Number

29:00

one, committing two murders in

29:02

the span of, you know, about an hour.

29:04

But there are differences. Right?

29:07

Different locations and

29:09

also one of

29:11

the murders seems

29:14

to really follow the pattern

29:17

of the other murders that

29:19

we've talked about. And then,

29:21

one, had the

29:24

throat cut, but was not

29:26

mutilated in the same

29:27

way, was not ripped.

29:30

I don't know.

29:31

Almost like the killer didn't

29:33

have the time that he normally would need. And

29:36

that is very possible. I think

29:39

in some scenarios, you

29:41

could envision

29:43

someone who wanted to kill

29:45

someone. Reading in the paper

29:48

about, you know, these these

29:50

murders, this series of murders,

29:53

and basically saying, here's my chance.

29:55

Oh, of course, you have that too. I'm I'm gonna

29:57

kill someone and I'll

30:00

try to, you know, copy

30:03

some of the stuff that I read, and

30:05

they'll think it's the ripper. Yeah.

30:07

won't get I won't get blamed for it. Yeah.

30:10

I'm not saying that happen, but It

30:12

could be. It could also and

30:15

probably more likely be your

30:17

theory. Because there are seventy

30:20

eight thousand people Yeah. In this

30:22

area, what's the chance that somebody's

30:24

gonna be out, come along? And

30:27

you gotta skip out. But you're right. You could

30:29

always have copycat killers. Oh, there's no doubt.

30:32

It happens all the time. Yeah. So

30:34

the first victim was found at one AM.

30:36

In a backyard on Burner

30:38

Street commercial road. The woman

30:40

had a deep gash in her throat,

30:42

but her body was not mutilated. The

30:45

second victim was found about forty

30:47

five minutes later. Her throat was

30:49

also cut, but in addition

30:51

to the fatal wound, the victim in the

30:53

second crime had undergone

30:56

mutilation that was described as

30:58

similar to that reaped

31:00

upon the miserable creature Annie

31:03

chap. The lower portion of the

31:05

body had been opened by

31:07

long incisions and

31:09

the intestines displaced while

31:12

the legs in the face were also

31:14

gashed, and the nose completely

31:16

severed. Okay? We're talking about

31:19

painting a picture. Sure. I mean,

31:22

I'm painting pictures that I don't want

31:24

to paint. I mean, I

31:26

can't help it though because the words

31:28

are very descriptive. They are. And

31:31

this is nasty brutal stuff,

31:33

but you almost can't help but

31:35

picture it in your

31:36

mind. And I

31:38

Find it somewhat disturbing that they

31:40

reference her as a creature. Miserable

31:43

creature. Yeah. I thought that was very

31:45

strange. But like we said before, there

31:47

are going to be some

31:49

quotes in here that are

31:52

are going to be less than

31:54

flattering -- Right. -- there's things

31:56

that nobody would ever say today.

31:58

But in the time back then,

32:01

probably it was typical. K.

32:03

Maybe it yeah. Maybe it was. According

32:05

to Jack de Ripper dot org,

32:07

Katherine was found lying on her

32:09

back in a pool of blood, and

32:12

her clothes were thrown up over

32:14

her waist. According to Jack

32:16

the Ripper tour, Katherine's

32:18

throat was cut to the spine, and

32:20

her abdomen had been cut open. Parts

32:23

of her intestines were found near her

32:25

body. Her face had also been cut

32:27

several times with what

32:30

was said to have been seemingly

32:32

deliberate incisions, and

32:34

Katherine's uterus, and left

32:37

kidney had been

32:38

removed. We had the heart and liver being removed

32:40

to one victim earlier. Now

32:42

we have kidney and

32:45

uterus being removed,

32:46

intestines. I mean, it's It's

32:50

brutal, but it's also why, you

32:53

know, we'll get into the talk of,

32:55

well, this must have been somebody

32:58

with some kind of medical background.

33:01

Right? Could I slice somebody open

33:03

and and remove their kidney?

33:06

Maybe, I don't know where it is. The

33:08

liver don't know what it looks like.

33:12

III really

33:13

don't. I'm not I'm not even trying to be funny.

33:15

I I think, like, where I think

33:17

certain parts are? Sure.

33:19

Like, if I point to my

33:21

doctor, I'm like, yeah, I think it be my liver. He

33:23

says it's on the other side or way up here

33:25

or not down there. That happens to me all the time. Wait

33:27

a minute. Your stomach, man. Now could

33:30

it just have been that this person

33:32

pulled something out?

33:34

Yeah. Or were

33:36

they skilled enough to know that

33:39

This is the liver. This is the kidney. This

33:41

is the uterus. Yeah. I

33:44

don't

33:44

know. But

33:45

of I was thinking of if I was

33:47

gonna take a tour, That's a tour I would

33:49

take. A tour. Yeah.

33:51

Okay. A tour. A tour.

33:54

Yeah. Jack the Ripper tour

33:57

Yeah. Okay. No. I yeah.

33:59

I mean, I say tour, but, yes, I would

34:01

take that as well. Yeah. So let's go do

34:04

that. Elizabeth Strath. Was

34:06

identified by papers on October

34:08

first. Katherine Meadows

34:11

was identified in an inquest

34:13

on October third. According to the

34:15

morning post, the identity of

34:17

Elizabeth Drive was also later

34:20

confirmed at the inquest. British

34:22

actress and presenter Emilio

34:25

Fox, and criminologist Professor

34:27

David Wilson discussed the murder

34:29

IN THE JACK THE RIPER, THE

34:32

CASE REOPENED DOCUMENTER. THEY

34:34

TALKED ABOUT TWO WY WITNESSES WHO

34:37

MAY HAVE SEEN THE KILLER A man

34:39

named Israel Schwarz turned

34:41

into Brunner Street from commercial

34:44

road. He was walking behind another

34:46

man. Schwartz saw this man

34:49

talking to Elizabeth. As

34:51

he passed, the man tried to

34:53

pull Elizabeth into the street and

34:55

threw her to the ground. Elizabeth

34:57

screamed. Schwartz thought it was

34:59

a domestic dispute and didn't want to

35:01

get involved, but he did provide

35:04

a description of the man he saw. He

35:06

said the man was about thirty, five

35:08

five, fair complexion, dark

35:11

hair with a brown mustache. Wearing

35:13

a dark jacket with a black peaked

35:16

cap. This is the first eyewitness

35:18

description of the man who

35:21

is possibly Jack the Ripper.

35:24

So earlier, we had a man

35:27

here what sounded like

35:29

a woman in distress. He did nothing.

35:32

Now we have a man who

35:35

saw a woman being

35:37

manhandled. Right? You

35:39

know, physically assaulted to

35:41

some degree, he did nothing.

35:44

Not I'm not bashing

35:46

these guys

35:47

But it sounds to me as though

35:49

that was the thing back then,

35:51

to look the other way. No. Well, you just didn't get involved

35:54

in other people's business. Business. Yeah.

35:57

I'm telling you right now, I

35:59

know if you were or I were on the

36:01

street, and especially if we were together,

36:04

and we saw a man hit

36:06

a woman. I don't care if that's

36:08

a domestic dispute or not. You cannot

36:11

hit a woman. No. We we we would be stopping. We'd

36:13

have to we'd have to step in. Yeah. And

36:15

I'd much prefer if it was the both of us,

36:17

but we would

36:20

do what we need to do. But I'm just I'm taking

36:22

from this that this was very

36:24

common back then. Sure.

36:26

Yeah. And people just

36:28

didn't intervene in

36:31

other People's affair. Mine your

36:33

business keep on going. Yeah. It it

36:35

definitely seems as though that was the case.

36:38

Elizabeth was dragged into

36:40

Dutland's yard. The killer

36:42

slashed her throat, but he didn't mutilate

36:44

her because as

36:47

you postulated ribs, he was interrupted.

36:49

David Wilson explained that the yard

36:52

houses a club where the

36:55

steward would pull his horse and cart

36:57

into the yard. This Interruption

36:59

probably led to sexual frustration. And

37:02

it's thought that the killer most

37:04

likely went off to find another victim.

37:07

Well, what kinda makes sense? It does make a

37:09

lot of sense. And we've actually

37:12

seen this in, you know,

37:14

much more recent cases where

37:17

a serial killer targeted someone

37:20

on a certain night, something

37:22

happened, and they weren't able

37:24

to complete what they wanted to do.

37:27

And so they actually went

37:30

and found another victim

37:33

that very same night. And whether

37:35

that's sexual frustration

37:39

or frustration from not

37:41

being able to complete

37:43

the What's the word? Rritual

37:46

-- Yeah. -- of what

37:48

they are striving to do?

37:51

I I don't know. It could be one or

37:53

the other or both. Fox and Wilson

37:55

discussed the second eyewitness, Joseph

37:58

Lavender. Joseph left a club

38:00

on Duke Street at one thirty AM

38:03

At one thirty five, he saw a man and

38:05

woman talking on the corner of Duke

38:07

Street and Church passage. They

38:09

were about ten yards away from him

38:11

as he walked past, The woman had

38:13

her back turned to him, but he saw the man.

38:16

The man was about thirty years old.

38:18

Five seven or five eight with

38:20

a fair complexion. With

38:23

a small, fair mustache, a

38:25

salt and pepper jacket, a

38:27

red neckerchief, and

38:29

a gray peaked cap. So

38:32

this somewhat differs from

38:34

the description given by shorts.

38:36

The age is the same. The height's

38:38

little different. Some of the other

38:41

details are different. On November

38:43

nine, eighteen eighty eight, twenty

38:45

five year old Mary Jane Kelly was

38:47

found dead in the bedroom she

38:50

rented on Dorcett Street, the

38:52

daily telegraph reported on November

38:54

tenth yesterday a

38:56

seventh murder. The most horrible

38:59

of the series of atrocities attributed

39:02

to the same hand was committed

39:04

in Whitechapel. As in all the

39:06

previous instances, the

39:08

victim was a woman of immoral

39:10

character and humble circumstances but

39:13

she was not murdered in the open street.

39:15

Her throat having been cut in

39:18

the subsequent mutilations having

39:20

taken place in a room which

39:22

the deceased rented. She

39:24

has been identified as Mary

39:27

Jane Kelly. So at this point,

39:29

the media is Counting

39:32

every murder. Yes. Yeah.

39:35

And we'll talk about that more.

39:37

Yeah. As we talk about the canonical

39:40

five versus the other murders.

39:42

Mary Anne was last seen alive on

39:44

Thursday, November eighth, and she

39:46

was heard singing by lodgers at

39:49

one AM on the ninth. Her body

39:51

was found around ten forty five

39:53

AM. The paper went on to

39:56

write the body of the woman was stretched

39:58

on the bed fearfully mutilated.

40:01

Nosed and ears had been cut off. And

40:03

although there had been no dismemberment,

40:06

the flesh had been stripped off.

40:08

Leaving the skeleton. There was

40:11

comparatively little blood. Death

40:13

having been due to the savoring of the

40:15

throat The mutilations having

40:18

been subsequently performed.

40:20

It was evident that a large and keen

40:22

knife had been used by a

40:24

hand possessed of some knowledge and

40:26

practice that the woman had had

40:29

no struggle with her betrayer was

40:31

shown by her position. In the

40:33

way in which her garments were

40:35

arranged by the fireplace. That's

40:37

rough. Yeah. Yeah.

40:39

So this time we're not talking

40:42

about dismemberment. We're

40:44

we're talking about flying. Yeah.

40:47

Stripping the flash off the

40:49

body down to the skeleton.

40:53

Okay? That's nightmare inducing stuff

40:56

right there. You know, the other thing that I

40:58

was thinking if you're someone

41:01

sitting at home reading these

41:02

stories, you gotta be frightened

41:05

out of your freaking mind. Yeah. Especially

41:07

if you're a woman, you're thinking I don't

41:09

know if I wanna step out on the street

41:11

after a certain time at night. Well,

41:13

now if you're a

41:15

wealthy upscale woman,

41:18

are you still

41:18

worried? Because the papers

41:21

have, you know, taken great

41:23

care. Right?

41:24

To make sure that

41:27

they said about all of these

41:29

women whether they used

41:31

the term immoral character

41:34

or they used the term unfortunate.

41:37

Class. Oh, yeah. Unfortunately class.

41:39

And I just wonder how deliberate that

41:42

was. Is that for

41:44

the benefit of being descriptive, Or

41:47

is it for the benefit of delaying

41:50

the fear of the upper

41:53

class? That, hey, you don't have to worry --

41:55

Yeah. -- because This person

41:57

obviously is going after

42:00

a certain class of of people in our

42:02

eyes. I don't know that to be

42:04

a

42:04

fact, but But it wouldn't matter to me. I'd

42:06

be scared either way. Absolutely. When I

42:08

think about this, this murder

42:10

here, I think because he

42:12

had more time, because

42:14

he was in the apartment. He didn't have to

42:17

worry about somebody coming by. He

42:19

had the time to actually do

42:21

what he did.

42:22

Yeah. Yeah. He didn't have to worry. I

42:24

don't think about obviously being

42:26

discovered by someone walking by

42:29

that wasn't gonna happen. According

42:31

to Jack the Ripper dot org,

42:33

doctor Thomas Bond described Mary

42:36

Anne's injuries in the postmortem report

42:39

the body was lying naked in the middle

42:41

of the bed, the shoulder's flat,

42:44

but the axis of the body inclined

42:46

to the left side of the bed. The head

42:48

was turned on the left cheek.

42:50

Left arm was close to the body with

42:52

the forearm flexed at a right angle

42:55

and lying across the abdomen.

42:57

The right arm was slightly abducted

43:00

from the body and rested on the mattress.

43:02

The elbow bent and

43:05

the forearm soupine

43:07

with the fingers clinched. The

43:09

legs were wide apart. The

43:12

left thigh and right angles to the

43:14

trunk and the right forming

43:16

an obtuse angle with the

43:19

pubes. The whole of the surface

43:21

of the abdomen and thighs was removed.

43:24

And the abdominal cavity emptied

43:27

of its viscera. The breasts

43:29

were cut off. The arms mutilated

43:32

by several jagged wounds, and

43:34

the face hacked beyond recognition

43:37

of the features. The tissues

43:39

of the neck were severed all

43:41

round down to the bone.

43:44

The viscerub were found in various

43:46

parts. The uterus and kidneys

43:48

with one breast under the head

43:51

the other brass by the right foot,

43:54

the liver between the feet, the

43:56

intestines by the right side,

43:58

and the spleen by the left side

44:00

of the body. The flaps removed

44:03

from the abdomen and thighs were on

44:05

a table. The bed clothing

44:07

at the right corner was saturated with

44:09

blood. And on the floor beneath

44:11

was a pool of blood covering about

44:14

two feet square. The face was

44:16

gashed in all directions. The

44:18

nose, cheeks, eyebrows, and

44:20

ears being partly removed.

44:23

The lips were blanched and cut by

44:25

several incisions running obliquely

44:28

down to the chin. There were also numerous

44:31

cuts stending irregularly across

44:34

all the

44:35

features. Fuck being

44:36

sick. It's a it's a it's

44:38

stomach churning. It really

44:40

is.

44:42

It all jumps out at me. But, you

44:44

know, face hacked beyond

44:46

recognition.

44:47

Yeah. K? That really jumped

44:49

out at me. And then, you

44:52

know, taking the internal organs

44:55

and kind of arranging them.

44:58

Under the head, between the feet.

45:00

You know, like you said, this

45:02

guy had a lot of time. He really

45:04

did without fear of

45:07

of you know, being caught or

45:09

exposed, it it's almost as

45:11

if he did all the nasty

45:13

things he could think of. Right? And

45:16

maybe these were all the nasty things in his

45:18

head that he always wanted. And now

45:20

he had the

45:20

opportunity. Yeah. His gut

45:22

wrenching. It's almost like Jack,

45:24

the gripper, performed on autopsy.

45:27

Yeah. I mean, I I see where you're making

45:29

that comparison. You know, when

45:31

they talked about the flaps

45:33

of the abdomen. You're being

45:35

pulled back and then ultimately

45:38

cut off, but that's kinda what they

45:40

do during an autopsy.

45:42

In the fall of eighteen eighty eight,

45:45

the central news office, Scotland Yard,

45:47

and government officials received

45:49

various letters from someone claiming

45:51

to be Jack the Ripper. The

45:54

authorities ultimately received hundreds

45:56

of letters from someone claiming to

45:58

be Jack the Ripper most

46:00

of them ended up being hoaxes,

46:02

but there's a lot of debate on

46:05

whether or not the first few

46:07

letters were authentic. According

46:09

to jack to ripper dot org, on

46:12

September twenty fourth, the last

46:14

day of the Annie Chapman in Quest

46:16

An author sent a letter to Sir

46:18

Charles Warren, the Metropolitan police

46:21

commissioner. It read Dear Sir.

46:24

I do not wish to give myself up.

46:27

I am in misery with nightmare. I

46:29

am the man who committed all these murders

46:31

in the last six months. I

46:33

am a horse slaughter. I

46:36

have found the woman I wanted that

46:38

as Chapman, and I done what

46:40

I called, slaughtered her, But if

46:42

anyone comes, I will surrender.

46:45

The letter also contained a drawing

46:47

of a coffin and a knife.

46:49

Under the drawing of the knife, the sender

46:51

wrote This is the knife that I've

46:53

done these murders with. It

46:55

is a small handle with a large

46:57

long blade, sharp, both

47:00

sides. So police

47:02

thought this letter was a hoax, but

47:04

what they didn't know was that it

47:06

was just the beginning of a

47:08

series of strange letters they would

47:11

receive. Now, we do need to

47:13

talk about the monikers.

47:15

Right? So Jack DeRipper,

47:18

that's what this

47:20

killer is infamously known

47:23

as But before he was known as

47:25

Jack the Ripper, the killer

47:27

was called the Red Fumed, the

47:29

White Chapel murderer and

47:31

Leather apron. Okay. That's

47:34

got a real chainsaw

47:37

masker. Yeah. A leather

47:39

leather face thing going on. A

47:41

gang. Ed gang. The

47:43

name Jack DeRipper appeared for the

47:45

first time in the infamous Deere

47:47

Bosseller. According to Casebook,

47:50

The central news agency received

47:52

the Dear BOSS Letter on September twenty

47:55

seven. The Dear BOSS Letter was

47:57

reproduced in newspapers and

47:59

post bills The police

48:01

hoped someone would recognize the

48:04

hand word. It read Dear BOSS.

48:06

I keep on hearing the police

48:08

of cocky. But they won't fix me

48:10

just yet. I have laughed when they

48:13

look so clever and talk about

48:15

being on the right track. That

48:17

joke about leather apron gave

48:19

me real fits. I am down

48:21

on whores and I shan't

48:23

quit ripping them till I do

48:26

get buckled. Grand work

48:28

the last job was, I gave

48:30

the lady no time to squeal. How

48:32

can they catch me now? I love my

48:34

work and I want start again. You

48:36

will soon hear me with my funny little

48:39

games. I save some of the

48:41

proper red stuff in a ginger

48:43

beer bottle over the last job

48:46

to write with, but it went thick

48:48

like glue and I can't use it.

48:50

Red ink is fit enough I hope.

48:54

The next job I do, I

48:56

shall clip the ladies ears off

48:58

and send to the officers just

49:01

for Jolly. Wouldn't you Keep

49:03

this letter back till I do a bit

49:05

more work. Then give it out straight.

49:08

My knife so nice and sharp.

49:11

I wanna get to work right away if

49:13

I get a chance. Good luck.

49:15

Yours truly jacked the

49:17

ripper don't mind me

49:19

giving the trade name. PS

49:22

wasn't good enough to post this before.

49:24

I got all the red ink off my hands.

49:27

Cursed, no luck yet. They

49:29

say I'm a doctor now. I'm

49:33

not gonna lie. I got little shivery there.

49:35

Yeah.

49:35

And I had already read this before, obviously,

49:37

of course. Yeah. But reading it out

49:39

like that, you know,

49:41

it gave me real kinda

49:44

zodiac vibe. There's

49:46

been, you know, a number of of infamous

49:48

killers who have written -- Right.

49:50

-- BTK type vibe. Sure.

49:53

This would be more of the original. Yeah.

49:56

Yeah. Really. Think about some of the

49:58

things he said in that letter. And

50:01

I hate to keep doing this. Comparing this

50:04

to cases that are much more recent,

50:07

but I see so many similarity. Obviously,

50:11

he wants to mess with the police. He

50:13

says, I'm not gonna quit.

50:15

I'm gonna keep doing this. I think

50:17

the part that really got me was talking

50:20

about saving the woman's

50:22

blood. And it was too thick to write with.

50:24

And and then he wanted to use it, but he couldn't

50:26

because it became too thick. I

50:30

don't know. So either this was

50:32

Jack the Ripper. Really Jack

50:34

the Ripper. Or this was someone

50:36

messing with police calling themselves

50:39

Jack the Ripper. Now I think police

50:41

will start one way and then kind of

50:43

lean another The central

50:45

news agency sent the letter to the

50:48

Metropolitan Police on September

50:50

twenty ninth. They thought it was just

50:52

a prank. The police also thought

50:54

it was a hoax. That was until

50:57

September thirtieth when Katherine

50:59

Eddows and Elizabeth Stride were

51:01

murdered and one of Katherine's ear

51:03

lobes was cut

51:04

off. Okay. Do you put a little bit more

51:06

weight behind it at that point?

51:08

Think you have to. The police were

51:10

desperate for answers due to

51:12

intense public pressure to catch

51:14

the killer. They decided to

51:16

publish the letter on October first.

51:18

And that's important. Right? Knowing

51:21

that the letter wasn't published

51:24

until after Catherine

51:27

and Elizabeth were murdered. If

51:29

not, then you could make the argument

51:32

that a person read the letter

51:34

in the newspaper and decided to

51:38

act on it. Act on it copycat,

51:41

do something like that. But that wasn't

51:43

possible because the letter

51:46

wasn't known about to the

51:48

public. At least -- Right. -- until after

51:51

the murders occurred. On October

51:53

first, the central news agency received

51:55

a postcard referencing both

51:57

murders which is believed to

52:00

be written by the same person who

52:02

wrote the letter. According

52:04

to Casebook, the handwriting was similar

52:06

to the Dear Boss letter and referenced

52:09

the letter and the murders on September

52:11

thirtieth before the press ever

52:13

wrote about it. It read I

52:16

was not cutting, dear old

52:18

boss, when I gave you the tip, you'll

52:20

hear about Sassy Jacky's

52:22

work tomorrow. Double event this

52:25

time. Number one, squealed a bit,

52:27

couldn't finish straight off. Not

52:30

the time to get ears for police.

52:32

Thanks for keeping last letter back

52:35

till I got to work again, Jack

52:38

the Ripper. Yeah. So to me, pretty easy

52:40

to see that this same person who

52:42

wrote the letter than wrote this

52:44

-- Yeah. -- at the postcard. The postcard because,

52:47

number one, they're referencing the

52:49

ears, something that wasn't

52:51

public knowledge at the time.

52:53

Right. They also signed they also signed it

52:55

Jack the Ripper. Yeah. So and

52:58

then you have somebody saying that the handwriting

53:00

was similar. Whoever wrote the

53:02

postcard was inferring that

53:04

it was written just after the murders.

53:07

The postcard also referenced the

53:09

fact that the killer had tried to act

53:11

on the threat to cut off a

53:13

woman's ears. The publicity

53:16

ended up leading to a surge of hundreds

53:18

of letters, many of them hoaxes, which

53:20

did not help the police investigation, after

53:23

the Dear Boss letter, there were more

53:26

letters from the killer threatening

53:28

to send a body part to the police

53:31

instead a human organ was

53:33

sent to a man named George Lusk.

53:36

George Lusk was a figure in the papers

53:38

because He was president of

53:40

the White Chapel vigilance committee.

53:43

He had also been urging the home office

53:45

to reconsider their decision

53:47

not to offer a reward for information.

53:50

So you gotta wonder why did

53:52

they not want to offer

53:54

a reward? Was it because the

53:57

victims were not of the right

53:59

class?

54:00

And, therefore, not deemed

54:02

worthy of a reward. Yeah.

54:05

Yeah. I don't know, but at the same time,

54:08

we're talking about how much pressure the

54:11

police are under. So you

54:13

would think that they would want

54:15

to solve this just because

54:17

of the publicity and the pressure.

54:20

I don't know. You and I talk about rewards

54:23

a lot. And obviously, many

54:25

differences in different countries.

54:28

We know Australia doesn't mess around.

54:30

They offer a lot of money. Yeah.

54:33

I don't know what was going on in the late

54:36

eighteen hundreds and especially in

54:38

England, but it seems like

54:41

a bad decision. I'll say that.

54:44

According to jack to ripper dot

54:46

org, on October fourth, eighteen

54:48

eighty eight, a suspicious man

54:51

came to Musk's home

54:53

asking for him. He was told that

54:55

Musk was at a nearby tavern.

54:58

News of the world reported that he

55:00

found Laskett the tavern and

55:02

subjected him to a barrage

55:04

of questions about the beats

55:07

taken by the members of the mile and

55:09

vigilance committee. He tried to get lost

55:11

to go into a private room, but

55:14

it was corded that the stranger's

55:16

appearance was so repulsive and

55:19

forbidding that mister lost

55:21

decline but consented to

55:23

hold a quiet conversation with

55:25

him in the bar parlor.

55:28

During the conversation, The

55:30

stranger took a pencil out of his pocket

55:32

and dropped it off to the side. He

55:34

asked Musk to

55:36

pick it up. As Musk

55:39

did so, the stranger reached into his pocket.

55:42

But when Musk saw him doing this,

55:44

he assumed a nonchalant air.

55:46

So let me get this straight. Blass

55:49

is with this guy who he

55:51

says was so repulsive

55:54

and forbidding that he didn't wanna be alone

55:57

with him. Then the guy drops a pencil

55:59

and asks him to pick it up. He

56:01

does so. For what reason?

56:04

For reasons unknown. Right. I I don't know

56:06

why you would do that. And then

56:08

he catches him reaching

56:10

into his pocket and all of a sudden the guy

56:12

acts like, oh, I wouldn't do anything.

56:14

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then

56:17

he asked to be directed

56:19

to the nearest coffee and dining rooms.

56:22

And then Musk followed the guy, but

56:24

he wasn't there. It almost makes you wonder

56:27

if this guy was, the gripper

56:30

or was this a different guy?

56:32

And regardless of who the guy

56:34

was, what did he have in his other pocket? A

56:36

knife?

56:37

But he

56:37

wanted to see how close he could get to this guy and

56:39

maybe take him out if he wanted to. I don't know

56:41

who he was, but it it doesn't

56:43

seem to me as though his intentions

56:46

were honorable. Yeah. Like, he wanted

56:48

to do something, but he got

56:50

caught in the act of

56:53

pulling out of his

56:54

pocket, whatever he was gonna

56:56

use, and then he kinda played it off. That's

56:58

the way it sounds to me. Right. Because I don't think

57:01

it was like a reporter like

57:03

a reporter would come into a place like that and

57:05

have an appearance that was so repulsive

57:07

and

57:07

forbidding, you know, that the

57:10

Gentlemen didn't wanna speak to him in a private

57:12

room. On October tenth,

57:15

another man was seen outside of

57:17

lust's home According

57:19

to Jack de ripper dot org, two

57:21

days later, Musk received a letter.

57:24

It read, I write you a letter

57:26

in blacking. As I have no

57:28

more of the right stuff. I think

57:30

you are all asleep in Scotland

57:32

yard with your blood hounds as

57:34

I will show you tomorrow night. Saturday.

57:38

I'm going to do a double event, but

57:40

not in White Chapel. Got rather

57:42

too warm there, had to shift

57:45

No more till you hear from me

57:47

again. Okay. If I get that

57:49

letter, I'm a little worried. Absolutely.

57:51

But then, Lost received a postcard.

57:54

The red say boss, you

57:56

seem rare frightened. Yes, I'd

57:58

like to give you fits, but can't

58:00

stop time enough to let your

58:02

box of toys Play copper

58:05

games with me, but hope to see you when

58:07

I don't hurry much. Buy buy

58:09

boss. Right? Ominous threatening,

58:12

kinda toying with you? Yes. On

58:14

October fifteenth, a woman named

58:16

miss Marsh was working in a leather shop.

58:19

A man came in and seemed interested

58:21

in the vigilance committee's reward

58:23

post So apparently, by this

58:26

point, they had offered up a reward. Miss

58:28

Marsh told him to ask it a nearby

58:31

pub. But he said, he didn't wanna

58:33

go there. So she got out

58:35

of newspaper with George

58:37

Lusk's street name in the report,

58:40

The man wrote the street name down in the notebook.

58:43

Miss Marsh described him as

58:45

slender, about forty five years old,

58:47

and six feet tall. With a shallow

58:50

complexion in the dark beard and mustache,

58:52

she said he had an Irish accent.

58:55

According to jack to ripper dot org,

58:57

on October sixteenth, George

59:00

Lusk received a small cardboard box

59:02

in the mail. Inside the box

59:04

was half of the kidney, preserved

59:07

in wine with a letter. Wow.

59:09

Yeah. Yeah. Kidney. With

59:11

some fava beans and a nice

59:13

candy. So

59:15

this letter read from hell,

59:18

mister Lusk soar.

59:21

I send you half the kidney. I

59:23

took from one woman and

59:25

preserved it for you. The other

59:27

piece I fried and ate, it was

59:29

very nice. I may send you

59:32

the bloody knife that took it

59:34

out if you only wait

59:36

a while longer. Signed, catch

59:39

me when you can, mister

59:42

Musk. Now, the thing

59:44

about this is

59:46

that there's misspellings throughout.

59:49

Right. So I read it as though

59:52

they weren't misspelled, but like

59:54

almost half of the words in this are

59:56

misspelled. It seems to me

59:59

very different from

1:00:01

the other writing. I

1:00:03

agree with you. But you did get a kidney.

1:00:05

You did. Interestingly, the

1:00:07

package had Musk's name

1:00:09

and his street name on it, but not his

1:00:11

house number. His house number

1:00:14

had been omitted from the newspaper report

1:00:17

that miss Mars showed the man,

1:00:19

it only listed his streaming. SO

1:00:22

LUS THOUGHT THE PACKAGE WAS JUST A DISTURBING

1:00:24

PRANK AND HE ASSUME THE KIDNEY

1:00:26

CAME FROM AN AM. BUT HIS FELO

1:00:28

VIJULANCE COMMITTEE MEMBERS THOUGHT he

1:00:30

should get a medical opinion.

1:00:32

Yep. Because why would you think someone would actually

1:00:34

send you a real kidney? Someone who's

1:00:37

writing threatening ominous letters

1:00:39

to you? Yeah. I --

1:00:41

Yeah. -- I don't know. I think I'm taking everything

1:00:43

seriously at this point -- Yeah. until

1:00:45

somebody tells me no. This

1:00:48

is not a human organ. Lust

1:00:50

took the kidney to a local surgeon.

1:00:53

The doctor's assistant examined the kidney

1:00:55

and thought it was human, but HE ADVISED

1:00:58

LOCK TO GET A SECOND OPINION. SO

1:01:00

LOS TOOK IT TO THE LONDON HOSPITAL

1:01:03

WHERE IT WAS EXAMINED BY DR.

1:01:05

THOMAS OPENSHAW pathological

1:01:08

curator. On October nineteenth,

1:01:10

the star reported there seems

1:01:12

to be no room for doubt. That what

1:01:15

has been sent to mister Lusk

1:01:17

is part of a human kidney.

1:01:20

Doctor Open Shaw told a star reporter

1:01:22

today that after having

1:01:24

examined the piece of kidney under

1:01:26

the microscope, he was of opinion

1:01:28

that it was half of a left human

1:01:31

kidney. He couldn't say however whether

1:01:33

it was that of a woman, nor

1:01:36

how long ago it had been removed

1:01:38

from the body, as it had been

1:01:40

preserved in spirit. Alright, mister

1:01:42

Lusk. How are you feeling now? Yeah.

1:01:45

No. No. I'd be a little bit nervous. So

1:01:47

I said earlier, you know, I was getting zodiac

1:01:50

vibes, BTK vibes,

1:01:53

leather face vibes. Now I'm getting

1:01:55

a real silence of the lambs vibe

1:01:57

here and It's disconcerting

1:02:00

to say the least. But then on

1:02:02

October twentieth, the East

1:02:05

London advertiser quoted Open

1:02:07

Shaw as saying, that the kidney belonged

1:02:09

to a woman around age forty

1:02:11

five and that it was

1:02:13

removed from the body within the past

1:02:15

three weeks. The paper also

1:02:17

noted that Edos was

1:02:20

missing her left

1:02:21

kidney. Trying

1:02:22

to tie it all together. They are. The

1:02:24

kidney was given to the metropolitan police.

1:02:27

Most people, including doctors and

1:02:29

police who investigated the case, agree

1:02:32

the letter was a prank. According to

1:02:34

Casebook, on October twenty ninth,

1:02:37

doctor Openshaw received the letter

1:02:39

from someone claiming to be Jack

1:02:41

the Ripper. But it's believed to be

1:02:43

a hoax. It read old

1:02:46

boss. You was right. It was the

1:02:48

left kidney. I was going to

1:02:51

operate again close to your

1:02:53

hospital just as I was going

1:02:55

to draw my knife

1:02:58

along her throat,

1:03:00

then cusses of copper spoiled

1:03:02

the game, but I guess I will be on

1:03:05

the job soon and we'll send you another

1:03:07

bit of innards. And

1:03:10

this one was signed Jack the Ripper.

1:03:12

But again, like the last

1:03:14

letter, there are so many

1:03:16

words the spell that

1:03:18

it was actually very very hard to read.

1:03:20

It it it really was. And

1:03:23

I have not heard anyone

1:03:26

use the term innards

1:03:29

since Dew had that on their

1:03:32

as their slogan. I think it was like

1:03:34

it'll tickle your innards or something like

1:03:36

that. Remember there was like an old mountain man?

1:03:39

No. You don't remember that? No. I'll have

1:03:41

to look that up on the Internet. Somebody will remember

1:03:43

that. Pickle my Internet. I swear. It

1:03:45

used to say something like that back in the day.

1:03:48

Don't be tickling my Internet. Look it up on the Internet.

1:03:50

The letter went on to say, oh, have you

1:03:52

seen the devil with his microscope

1:03:55

and scalpel looking at

1:03:57

a kidney with a slide cocked up.

1:04:00

So I mentioned it. Right? Most people

1:04:02

thought that these letters

1:04:04

were Frank letters. The

1:04:07

police determined that most of

1:04:09

the letters they received were pranks.

1:04:11

In October nineteen eighty eight, Metropolitan

1:04:14

Police Commissioner, sir Charles Warren,

1:04:16

wrote that he thought the

1:04:19

Dear BOSS Letter was a hoax.

1:04:21

In nineteen ten, former

1:04:23

assistant commissioner and head of the

1:04:25

criminal investigation department. At

1:04:27

Scotland Yard, Sir Robert

1:04:30

Anderson wrote in his memoirs that

1:04:32

he believed the letter was created

1:04:34

by a journalist. In nineteen

1:04:37

thirteen, journalist George Sims wrote

1:04:39

to detective chief inspector John

1:04:42

George Littlechild head of

1:04:44

these special brands during the murders.

1:04:46

Little child replied that Scotland

1:04:48

Yard, believed that Tom Bullen.

1:04:51

Of central news was the one

1:04:53

who created the term Jack the Ripper

1:04:56

or that his chief Charles

1:04:58

Moore invented the name.

1:05:00

Probably made for good news if

1:05:03

that's the truth. Yeah. I mean,

1:05:05

I I see where this person's going

1:05:08

if you are a newspaper person

1:05:11

and you can create the name

1:05:13

and you're the first to report on the

1:05:15

name, I can see where you

1:05:17

know, the paper and you yourself

1:05:19

would benefit from that. But I'm not

1:05:21

sure that that that's how it happened. It

1:05:24

seemed like everybody got a

1:05:26

copy of the letter when it was

1:05:28

released. Jack de ripper dot

1:05:30

org reports that little child was

1:05:32

wrong about the name Bolen. It

1:05:34

was Thomas j Bolen. Who

1:05:37

worked at central news agency, Bolen

1:05:40

was a man who sent a handwritten copy

1:05:42

of another letter to the police Also,

1:05:45

the original from hell letter has

1:05:48

disappeared as well as any

1:05:50

items associated with the kidney.

1:05:53

Now, is that surprising? No.

1:05:56

I mean, a hundred plus years. We

1:05:58

have cases from like ten years ago.

1:06:01

Where evidence has been lost,

1:06:03

misplaced, you name

1:06:05

it. Stolen, stolen, destroyed,

1:06:08

In two thousand eighteen, University

1:06:11

of Manchester researcher Andrea

1:06:14

Denny analyzed 209

1:06:16

letters. Including the Deere boss

1:06:19

letter. The Deere boss letter

1:06:21

is considered authentic because

1:06:23

the writer promises to cut off the

1:06:25

ears of the next victim and

1:06:28

the next victim. Katherine Eddos

1:06:30

had one of her earlobes severed.

1:06:33

Another letter that is considered authentic

1:06:36

is the saucy jockey

1:06:38

postcard, which predicts a double

1:06:40

murder and refers to the

1:06:43

killer and third person calling

1:06:45

him saucy jacking, according

1:06:48

to the Smithsonian magazine. Then

1:06:50

he found that Dear Boss and

1:06:53

saucy jacking share distinctive

1:06:55

linguistic constructs such

1:06:58

as the use of the phrase to

1:07:00

keep back instead of the

1:07:02

word withhold. So this

1:07:04

makes a lot of sense to me, Gives. I

1:07:06

mean, we talked about, you know,

1:07:08

these two writings were

1:07:11

said, to have been very

1:07:13

similar. In regards to the handwriting,

1:07:16

there also was not a lot of misspellings as

1:07:18

there were in in some of the other

1:07:20

letters that were received, the

1:07:23

tone just sounded similar.

1:07:25

I thought in reading them. Yes.

1:07:28

Not I don't know if that means

1:07:30

that they came from the

1:07:32

real Jack DeRipper, but I think

1:07:34

a lot of people point to the fact that the

1:07:36

next victim did have

1:07:38

an earlobe removed. So it makes

1:07:40

you wonder. Well, it does because according

1:07:43

to everything in the research, this this

1:07:46

letter was not public knowledge

1:07:48

at the time of that murder. Denny

1:07:51

told George Dovorski from

1:07:53

Gizmodo Even though the Dear

1:07:55

Bossletter was not in the public domain,

1:07:58

when the Sassy Jacky postcard

1:08:00

was received, they present

1:08:02

a level of linguistic similarity.

1:08:04

In terms of combination of

1:08:06

words and common that is much

1:08:08

higher than one would expect if they were

1:08:11

completely unrelated. The combination

1:08:13

of words in common between the

1:08:15

two letters are distinctive so that

1:08:18

one would not expect them to be shared

1:08:20

by Chancellor. The press release

1:08:22

from the university stated that previous

1:08:25

handwriting analysis had also

1:08:27

connected the two letters, but then

1:08:29

he found that linguistic analysis

1:08:32

possibly linked the letters to a third letter

1:08:35

known as the Moab Imidian

1:08:38

letter. According to Casebook, the

1:08:40

Moab and Midian letter reads

1:08:42

as follows. Dear mister Williams,

1:08:45

at five minutes to nine o'clock tonight,

1:08:48

we received the following letter, the

1:08:50

envelope of which I enclosed. It

1:08:52

is in the same handwriting as

1:08:54

the previous communications five

1:08:57

October eighteen eighty eight,

1:08:59

dear friend. In the name of

1:09:01

God, hear me I swear. I

1:09:03

did not kill the female whose

1:09:05

body was found at Whitehall. If

1:09:08

she was an honest woman, I will

1:09:10

hunt down and destroy her murderer.

1:09:13

If she was a horror, God

1:09:15

will bless the hand that slew her.

1:09:17

For the women of Moab

1:09:20

and Midian, shall die. And

1:09:22

their blood shall mingle with the dust.

1:09:24

I never harm any others or the

1:09:26

divine power that protects and helps

1:09:29

me and my grand work would quit

1:09:31

forever. Do as I do in the

1:09:33

light of glory shall shine upon you.

1:09:35

I must get to work tomorrow, terrible

1:09:38

event this time, yes, three

1:09:40

must be ripped. Will send you

1:09:42

a bit of face by post. I promise

1:09:45

this dear old boss. The police

1:09:47

now reckon my work a practical joke.

1:09:50

Well, Jackie's a very practical joker,

1:09:54

keep this back till three or wiped

1:09:56

out, and you can show the cold

1:09:58

meat. Yours truly Jack

1:10:01

the Ripper. Yours truly T.

1:10:03

J. Bullock. So this

1:10:05

one This is little tougher

1:10:08

for me. I see some similarities.

1:10:11

There's a little bit more misspelling.

1:10:14

Of words in this one as

1:10:17

the first two that are considered authentic,

1:10:20

and they're obviously the tone is much

1:10:22

different. Mean, it talks about

1:10:25

divine power and glory shall

1:10:27

shine upon you -- Right. -- or

1:10:29

religious. Yeah. A little bit more of

1:10:31

a with a religious bent or or

1:10:33

something like that. This letter was long

1:10:36

regarded as a hoax, but Smithsonian

1:10:38

magazine wrote that if all

1:10:40

three letters, or actually linked,

1:10:43

this adds credibility to the journalist

1:10:46

theory. And basically, that's a theory

1:10:48

that States that the early letters

1:10:50

were written by London journalist to

1:10:52

keep the story going. And one

1:10:55

of those theories is that a central news

1:10:57

agency reporter named Thomas

1:10:59

bullying was behind the letters, or

1:11:02

a journalist named Fred Best.

1:11:05

Andrea and Nenny told Gizmodo

1:11:07

There's historical evidence that points

1:11:09

to the journalist theory for the earliest

1:11:12

ones, Dear BOSS and Sassy

1:11:14

Jacky, And since this Moab

1:11:16

and Midian letter might have

1:11:18

been entirely fabricated at

1:11:20

the central news agency The

1:11:22

original document was never found or

1:11:25

sent to the police. If the linguistic

1:11:27

evidence supports that this was the same

1:11:30

authors, the Dear Boss and Sassy

1:11:32

Jacky, then we could argue that

1:11:34

the linguistic evidence does

1:11:36

support to the journalist's

1:11:38

theory. However, This is a

1:11:40

conclusion that should be reached

1:11:42

by the

1:11:43

historians, not the linguist.

1:11:46

I'm just wondering if

1:11:48

you had seen both

1:11:51

of the early letter,

1:11:53

right, the boss letter and then saw the

1:11:55

Solsey Jacky postcard, could

1:11:58

you not write something

1:12:00

similar if you were good at

1:12:02

that? Could you not pick up on the

1:12:05

the way that that individual writes

1:12:07

and try to write something just like him

1:12:10

to maybe full.

1:12:11

Yeah. I mean, there are people that are

1:12:13

pretty good at copying other people's

1:12:15

handwriting and yeah.

1:12:18

I don't know. But, you know, to me, this third

1:12:20

one that we've taught, the Moab and Midian.

1:12:23

Other than the fact that it

1:12:26

references Jackie. It

1:12:28

says dear old boss, it signed

1:12:30

Jack to Ripper, Other than

1:12:32

that, it doesn't seem to

1:12:35

fall in line with the other two. To

1:12:37

me. Now again, If the

1:12:39

handwriting matches all

1:12:41

that, that's one thing.

1:12:43

I mean, it's it's still a nasty one.

1:12:46

The letter talks about sending a piece of a person's

1:12:49

face --

1:12:49

Yeah. -- to post. I

1:12:51

feel that the first

1:12:54

letter and the postcard came from

1:12:56

Jack the

1:12:56

Ripper. And not journalist trying

1:12:59

to keep the story alive. That's where I'm at

1:13:01

right now. That's the thing about the Jack the

1:13:03

Ripper case. I mean,

1:13:05

there are so many different

1:13:07

theories. Everybody's got an opinion.

1:13:11

It's it's why it's

1:13:13

still talked about today as

1:13:15

much as it is. So

1:13:18

you know, we've covered the five

1:13:20

murders that are

1:13:23

often referred to as the canonical murders.

1:13:25

We've talked about the Jack, the Ripper

1:13:28

ladders, we obviously need

1:13:30

to discuss the potential suspects.

1:13:33

So in part two of

1:13:35

the Jack, the Ripper episodes, we'll

1:13:37

discuss some of the most well known suspects

1:13:41

more information about the victims

1:13:43

of Jack the Ripper and some

1:13:45

modern updates in the investigation.

1:13:48

So a lot of interesting stuff coming

1:13:51

in episode two. But that's

1:13:53

it for our first episode on

1:13:55

Jack DeRipper I will say

1:13:57

this before we get to voice

1:13:59

mails. know, whoever this was,

1:14:02

if it was the same individual.

1:14:05

You're talking about one sick

1:14:08

SOB. Oh, absolutely.

1:14:11

When you go through the descriptions of

1:14:15

just exactly what was done to

1:14:17

these women. I mean, you

1:14:19

said it it's stomach churning.

1:14:21

It it's enough to make you sick. Unfortunately,

1:14:24

it paints a very vivid picture

1:14:26

that is kinda hard to get out of your mind. Yeah.

1:14:29

But, yeah, definitely

1:14:32

a sick individual or sure.

1:14:34

So in part two, we'll talk about

1:14:37

who people think that could be.

1:14:38

Yeah. We got some voice mails. You

1:14:40

wanna check those out? The serum. Oh,

1:14:43

god. My name is Jacob. I'm from Lake Charles,

1:14:45

Louisiana. Love the podcast.

1:14:47

Sound y'all. Look at looking for

1:14:49

podcasts that cover the Janie's eight that happened

1:14:51

early early two thousand, I

1:14:53

believe it was. I've been listening ever since.

1:14:56

Just to drive the Patriot on and but

1:14:58

I'll give you a

1:14:59

voicemail. Team Gibby all the way.

1:15:01

Keep up the good words, Y'all, and stay safe

1:15:03

and keep your own time ticking. Alright.

1:15:06

Love it. Glad you found the podcast. Thank

1:15:09

you for joining our

1:15:10

Patreon. That means a lot. Absolutely. And I knew

1:15:12

I liked them. Yeah. I knew you But before

1:15:14

you even

1:15:15

heard That's right. And now you know why? No. I

1:15:17

know why. Hey, Mike. I can give you. My name is

1:15:19

Rory, and I'm from the DC area. Just

1:15:21

wanted to say that I love both of your podcasts

1:15:24

so much so that I recommend it to all

1:15:26

of my friends that listen to podcasts or

1:15:28

have an interest in True Crime. I

1:15:30

haven't gotten around to criminology yet,

1:15:32

but I plan on doing so when I get caught up

1:15:34

on TCAT and TCAT unsolved.

1:15:37

I'm actually quite far behind as

1:15:39

I started listening to your podcast about a year

1:15:41

ago, but I'm working on getting caught up. actually

1:15:44

wanted to call because that's what I was

1:15:46

listening to the Cindy James

1:15:48

case on unsolved. That

1:15:50

creepy, raspy voice mail

1:15:52

literally gave me the chills. And I

1:15:54

just had to keep looking over my shoulder

1:15:56

to make sure that no one was, like, going to come

1:15:58

and get me. I do have

1:16:01

two suggestions for future episodes.

1:16:04

I'm not sure if they have been done

1:16:06

already, but for T Cat, I wanted

1:16:08

to request the DG Snipper case.

1:16:11

If we're unsold, I wanted to request

1:16:14

the disappearance of Relisha Rod.

1:16:16

Anyways, thank you for taking my voice mail.

1:16:18

Keep up the great work and keep your own time

1:16:20

taken.

1:16:21

Alright. No. We haven't done either one of

1:16:23

those yet. Have we? We didn't cover DC

1:16:25

yet. DC tonight?

1:16:27

No.

1:16:27

We did. Maybe we didn't. No. Maybe we did.

1:16:29

I don't know. Six hundred and some episodes,

1:16:31

man, I'm telling you, it really

1:16:33

gets tough to remember

1:16:36

right off the top of your head. Think we don't

1:16:37

put up our fancy show notes spreadsheet

1:16:40

of everything that we've done. But Why do

1:16:42

that? No. Actually, it's a fun out of it. actually

1:16:45

do have a spreadsheet. That's how bad

1:16:47

it it's gotten that I have to keep a spreadsheet

1:16:49

Yeah. -- to to make sure that we don't

1:16:51

double double up. Yeah.

1:16:54

Remember, I used to be so bad on spreadsheets. I'd

1:16:56

look at everything instead of just doing the control

1:16:58

f and typing it

1:16:59

in, and I would just be like -- Mhmm. -- forever.

1:17:01

Until I told you how Excel works. You talk

1:17:03

me a lot about it. So Had that our

1:17:05

previous job

1:17:06

together? You were like, why

1:17:08

are you taking me so

1:17:09

long? Did give me the the number I mean,

1:17:11

Mike.

1:17:12

At one time, I was considered pretty

1:17:15

good at it. I'm I remember being on that

1:17:17

call count and, like, you can probably hear me count

1:17:19

1234, and you're like,

1:17:21

it tells you the number down

1:17:22

below. If you highlight the

1:17:23

call, just highlight

1:17:24

it. Oh, yeah. It's nice. Good

1:17:26

old days. Hi, guys. This is Susan

1:17:29

in Illinois. I just wanted to tell you something's funny.

1:17:31

I'm listening to the TJJ

1:17:33

ghost episode it's just the beginning and you guys

1:17:36

are talking about your kids not

1:17:38

really checking in with you as much. So

1:17:40

as you were standing, it's harder you're an adult,

1:17:43

you know? Well, I'm fifty two,

1:17:45

and so I checked in with my dad. He kinda

1:17:47

made me think, alright, I should, you know.

1:17:50

And I said, hey, just checking in with you

1:17:53

to say hi. And my dad

1:17:56

texted back and said, pay.

1:17:59

So I don't know if he really cares if my

1:18:01

chicken or not. Hilarious.

1:18:04

Anyway, I'll do it more often

1:18:06

just because of you guys. Thanks.

1:18:09

Stay

1:18:09

safe. Keep your own time taken.

1:18:11

Always good to check here. Yeah. I love that story.

1:18:13

So did he text back,

1:18:15

hey, because

1:18:17

he didn't care or because he's not

1:18:19

much of a texter. And I I would lean towards

1:18:21

the second. I'm

1:18:22

thinking the same thing. Yeah. He obviously care.

1:18:25

Because I'm all excited when I get a

1:18:27

text from

1:18:29

or a call from my girls, not many calls

1:18:31

because they don't No. They don't use the phone.

1:18:33

You're

1:18:33

just happy to get that text message. Yeah. Yeah.

1:18:35

It's nice. I like it. Alright,

1:18:37

buddy. That is it. For another

1:18:40

episode of True Crime all the time.

1:18:42

Next week, part two of Jack the Ripper.

1:18:45

So for Mike and Givy, stay safe

1:18:47

and keep your own time ticking.

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