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0:55

Hello everyone. And welcome to episode 2 42 of the true crime all the time.

0:59

Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson.

1:01

And with me as always is my partner in true crime.

1:04

Mike Gibson, gimme what is going on with you?

1:06

Hey man, I'm doing okay about yourself.

1:08

I'm doing very well. Yeah.

1:10

You know, getting ready for the holiday season.

1:12

My daughter's home from college.

1:15

That's exciting. That is exciting.

1:17

But still got a lot of presents to buy a lot of things, to do a lot of places to go people, to see people to see there's a lot coming up there is in the next few weeks.

1:28

Let's go ahead and give our Patrion shout outs.

1:31

We had Melanie Keeney.

1:33

What's going on? Keeney.

1:34

Rebecca Woodring Rebecca.

1:36

Kathy Holden was upholding.

1:38

Kathleen, Phil, Phil, Phil.

1:42

Okay. Sally Wilton was up Wilton MIT.

1:46

Paranormal. Yeah. Has a good old group back in the day, man.

1:49

My man mighty days had some fun there.

1:52

A little paranormal aspect to Jacob's house.

1:55

What's going on? Jacob? Mariah Mahasi oh, my Husky Lauren Yaggie.

2:00

Angie beach as well.

2:04

What's going on bitch ass.

2:05

Jody

2:10

Howard. Hey Jody. Yeah.

2:12

Sorry. There's just something about the way you said it.

2:15

Kimmy. Hey Kimmy, Janell.

2:17

Good old you now captain Jono.

2:20

Billings. What's going on?

2:22

Captain billings. Ashley Olson.

2:24

Hey, what's going on also in twin, single out one.

2:29

Paula Dimmick Hey, Paula.

2:32

And last but not least Michelle Mandela.

2:35

Hey Mondale. So we appreciate all the new support.

2:38

And if we go back into the vault Gibbs this week, we selected Jessica Hughes.

2:44

What's going on, Jessica. Thank you.

2:46

So we appreciate the continued support.

2:48

Very much. We had some PayPal donations from Jennifer Aleman Jennifer, Melissa Buel, Melissa and David Rose.

2:56

Thanks David. Yep. So thanks to Gibbs right now on true crime all the time.

3:01

We have a brand new episode out on black widow.

3:05

Judy bueno on you.

3:08

We do it to me. The black widow cases are always fascinating.

3:13

I mean, this was a woman that was so cold, so driven by greed that she was willing to not only kill husbands boyfriends, she murdered her own son.

3:27

She had no limits for money.

3:30

It's beyond comprehension.

3:32

All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time on soul?

3:37

I am ready. We're talking about the murder of Jill Dando.

3:42

This is a pretty famous case.

3:44

It is in 1999.

3:46

One of Jill's panicked neighbors called first responders.

3:51

After Jill was found slumped outside the front door of her home in Southwest London, the popular charismatic and famous TV journalists had been shot in the head at point blank range.

4:04

At the time of her death, Jill Dando was a highly respected broadcaster for the BBC.

4:11

She was known to millions of viewers around Britain, the brazen murder of someone.

4:17

So high profile in broad daylight, outside their own front door, shocked and appalled the nation, given the intense amount of media coverage of followed and the investigative resources involved police thought that they found the person responsible in 2001, two years after Jill's murder, investigators were relieved to announce the case was all wrapped up.

4:42

They charged a man who was later convicted to trial and sentenced to life in prison.

4:47

But six years later, the alleged perpetrators conviction was overturned on appeal.

4:53

And then a second trial in 2008, resulted in the man being acquitted.

4:59

There are several theories as to the identity of Jill's killer.

5:04

Two of these theories took investigators down.

5:07

Some very dark paths.

5:08

One was into the world of an alleged pedophile ring.

5:13

The other explored the possibility that Jill was murdered by contract killer connected to Milton groups from Serbia engaged in the Kosovo war.

5:24

It was suspected that the killing was possibly retaliation for the bombing of Serbia by NATO forces.

5:32

But we'll get into more of that as we explore the details of the story, ultimately though, more than 20 years later, much to the devastation of Jill's family, her friends, colleagues, and the public detectives are no closer to solving the mystery of who shot her or what 37 year old Jill Dando was a successful journalist and anchor at the top of her game.

5:58

She was best known for co-hosting the BBC program.

6:02

Crimewatch in the UK among her many achievements born on November 9th, 1961 in the town of Western super mare in the county of Somerset.

6:14

Joel was the youngest of two children born to parents, Jack and Winifred, according to vice.com.

6:21

The family were devout Baptists and Jill continued to have a strong faith throughout her life.

6:27

She was a high achiever from early on in life.

6:31

She became the head girl or school captain and she excelled at her studies.

6:38

I don't really share that type of personality to get where she did later in life.

6:42

Yeah. I get the sense that she was a go getter, right?

6:46

And you, you know, people like that, they're I don't want to say they're a cut above.

6:51

They, they're just very hard workers.

6:53

They see a goal.

6:55

They work hard to achieve that goal.

6:58

And there's really nothing.

6:59

That's going to stand in their way.

7:01

They're just not going to let anything stand in the way of achieving that goal.

7:08

I think it's, I mean, look, I'm flattered that you keep looking at me and pointing to me.

7:12

Sure. You know, because I Was thinking of you.

7:14

I try my hardest. According

7:15

to the Western mercury newspaper by age 17, Joel was volunteering at sunshine hospital radio in Western super mare.

7:25

She then enrolled in a journalism degree at south Glen Morgan Institute of higher education in Cardiff, in Wales, following in the footsteps of her father and brother upon graduation, Joe cut her teeth by working at the local newspaper in 1985.

7:43

She moved on to broadcast journalism landing her first news reading job for regional BBC radio Britain's national broadcaster.

7:53

Three years later, 26 year old Jill was promoted to a national television role.

7:59

Jill's face was the one viewer saw on BBC hourly news Bolton's until the mid nineties.

8:06

So I mean 26 years old, It

8:10

really wasn't achievement because not only was she popular in Britain, but a lot of people turn to the BBC news and other countries.

8:18

So she had that fame and notoriety as well.

8:22

She took on other hosting roles, including the BBC's news morning time slot, the 1:00 PM and 6:00 PM news.

8:29

She also hosted a travel show as well as the true crime series.

8:34

Crimewatch that's one Busy

8:36

woman. Well, that's kind of how you make your dreams come true.

8:39

You put in the work you put in the effort and good things happen.

8:43

Jill's talent, professionalism, and down to earth, engaging personality, endeared her to viewers.

8:51

And she received the BBC's personality of the year award in 1997.

8:57

Now on the personal side in late 1997, Jill fell in love with the man she met on a blind date.

9:06

He was a gynecologist named Dr.

9:09

Alan farthing.

9:10

The two were spending with each other.

9:12

They fell in love and they became engaged in early 1999.

9:18

According to the standard newspaper, the pair began making plans to wed in September that year and to start a family.

9:27

So Gibbs, it sounds like she had found love her personal life was going very well.

9:35

Her professional life was also going very well.

9:39

She was due to host the British academy television awards in may of 1999.

9:45

So everything's firing on all cylinders.

9:48

Yeah. And she's, she's got a lot going on, but a lot of good things in her life.

9:53

According to the times, newspaper at the time of her murder, Joel owned a two-story home in the redeveloped Southwest London suburb above full, which she'd purchased five years earlier.

10:06

She didn't live there anymore.

10:07

She was in the process of selling the house.

10:10

Instead, she had moved into her fiance Alan's place in the west London suburb of Chizik not all that far from Fullam.

10:19

According to the guardian on April 26th, 1999, Jill woke at Alan's house on the drive, back to her home.

10:29

She stopped at a gas station and then a shopping center in nearby Hammersmith, Joel was looking forward to, or her appointment that afternoon for her wedding dress bidding.

10:41

She arrived at her home and got out of her car at around 11:30 AM.

10:46

She walked up the path and was about to unlock her front door.

10:51

When an unknown assailant approached her, this person sees Jill from behind, shoved her onto the ground and then pressed a gun to her head and shot her once in her temple, the killer released his grip and Jill's lifeless body slumped on her doorstep as blood poured from the wound in her head.

11:12

And then the killer calmly and quietly left the scene.

11:15

But it was another 15 minutes before a female neighbor made the shocking discovery and called the police and an ambulance Joel was rushed to the hospital, but it was too late.

11:28

The autopsy revealed that the killer had shot Jill using a nine millimeter short caliber semi-automatic pistol Gibbs.

11:38

I think what we would call here in the United States, a three 80 over there, they call it nine millimeter short in Germany.

11:47

It's called nine millimeter Kurtz.

11:49

I think something like that.

11:50

Everybody's got their own name. Yeah, but it's a similar round.

11:53

They just have different names for it.

11:55

According to the guardian, the bullet exited the other side of Jill's head.

12:01

So basically instead of using a silencer, it was theorized that the killer essentially achieved the same effect of suppressing the sound of the gunshot by pressing the end of the gun onto Jill's head and firing you sometimes see that in movies where, you know, shooters use a pillow or they use something to try to lessen the noise.

12:28

Now it was also sad that this most likely prevented the killer from being spattered with blood.

12:34

Unfortunately, by the time first responders had left the crime scene, it was too contaminated to allow much forensic evidence to be gathered.

12:44

So, you know, that's an interesting statement and probably one that we don't talk about all that much.

12:51

You have first responders whose main goal is to what save lives.

12:58

Yeah. Now do they know about contaminating crime scenes?

13:03

Yes. I'm sure they do. I'm sure at some level that is part of their training, but it's not their first responsibility, their first responsibility and their main focus is to, you know, get to that individual, assess the scene, see what they can do to save a life.

13:21

Yeah. That's the priority. Unfortunately, I can see where that can sometimes result in crime scene contamination.

13:29

When ballistics experts examine the round and cartridge case found at the scene, they found something unusual.

13:37

They found a series of small markings on the casing.

13:41

It looked as though the weapon and the bullet used by the killer had been tampered with somehow according to the guardian, the gun was possibly a converted replica or decommissioned firearm.

13:56

Maybe that's because it's a little harder to get guns over there.

13:59

Yeah. It could be. I mean, there are, you know, firearms that, you know, we take for granted here in the U S you can go buy them, but they're illegal in the United Kingdom.

14:11

You got to Wonder how reliable a decommissioned firearm Is

14:15

though. Why I wondered about that too, but maybe that is the, the guardian theorizing that it had to have been tampered with to allow it to fire.

14:27

Now, as we often see with murders of public figures, the police investigation proceeded in the media spotlight Jill's death sent shock waves across the country, kicking off the most extensive murder inquiry conducted today by the metropolitan police.

14:46

The investigation was codenamed operation Oxboro according to the online British newspaper, the independent, it was the biggest.

14:55

And one of the costliest investigations in Britain, since the Yorkshire ripper, that was a big case.

15:02

That was, we covered that. We covered that on T cat.

15:05

They spent a lot of money trying to figure out who the Yorkshire ripper was.

15:10

It was a massive investigation when police questioned Jill's neighbors.

15:16

One man told them that he heard a woman scream around the time Jill was murdered, but he said he didn't hear a gunshot.

15:25

But if we go back to the theory that the sound of the gunshot was muffled because the gun was pressed right up to Jill's head.

15:36

Well, maybe that would make sense.

15:37

The neighbor did have some other helpful information.

15:40

According to the Northern echo newspaper.

15:43

When he heard the screen, he looked outside and saw a man who appeared to be in his forties.

15:50

He looked about six feet tall and was walking away from Jill's home.

15:55

But no one else that police talked to noticed anyone or anything suspicious in the area at the time or in the hours before Joel was murdered.

16:05

So they had one person, but it's not a great start for the investigation.

16:12

As far as eye witnesses were concerned.

16:16

Yeah. At this point they only have one simple description of somebody.

16:19

Yeah. It's not much to go on. Right.

16:20

Six feet tall in his forties.

16:22

Well, how many people in the area are about six feet tall and in their forties?

16:27

Yeah, probably a bunch. There you go.

16:29

Now, how many of those people were walking away from Joel's home?

16:34

Not many.

16:35

So if you can get to that person, well, then you've got something.

16:39

So police said about trying to figure out who killed Jill Dando.

16:44

It was a tough go Gibbs that I think when you think about a normal murder investigation, let's say a, a of a non-celebrity.

16:56

Okay. You're starting with family, significant others, friends.

17:02

And then you're branching out from there right now you have a person who is known to a large population.

17:10

You're going to do the same thing, because I think you always do.

17:15

You, you work inside out, right?

17:18

You first have to wonder, you know, was this someone that Jill knew?

17:23

Was it someone that she had recently met?

17:27

But we said it right.

17:29

She was a household name across the country.

17:32

Everyone knew her face.

17:34

If someone felt that maybe she'd offended them or just plain decided they didn't like her, which happens.

17:42

It does happen.

17:43

And celebrities get stalkers.

17:45

We know that, I guess to me is when I'm comparing this investigation to other unsolved homicides of non-celebrities, it does seem more daunting, I think, here, right?

18:02

Because it opens up a number of different avenues that you probably don't have.

18:08

In other types of homicide cases, you could be looking at a suspect pool that is very, very large, which means the investigators are going to have to work a lot harder.

18:21

Well, one thing I know for sure is that there would have been a tremendous amount of pressure, right?

18:29

From the public to solve this case, the more high profile, the case.

18:34

I think the more pressure that the police are going to be under.

18:40

And then on top of that, you know, you have the media, as well as the public who are going to heavily scrutinize every move that they make.

18:52

But police didn't have to wait long for a solidly after Jill's murder.

18:57

The BBC received several phone calls from anonymous callers, with Eastern European accents, claiming responsibility for the murder.

19:07

The caller stated that Jill had been murdered in a revenge killing by Serbian Milton groups.

19:15

And I think Gibbs, you know, police had to take these claims seriously based on what was happening at the time.

19:25

The Kosovo war in the former country of Yugoslavia had just begun in January with Serbian forces clashing with Kosovo Albanian rebels, NATO stepped in two months later, undertaking airstrike campaigns to force the Serbs to withdraw as detailed by the independent Britain was part of this NATO coalition.

19:50

So international relations between Britain and Serbia were on edge serve.

19:58

Extremists were known for executing anyone from a nation, questioning their authority.

20:03

And they were also known for targeting journalists of enemy countries in highly secretive and carefully coordinated attacks.

20:14

They also had a pretty easily identifiable ammo reporters were killed, where they should have felt the safest, their own homes.

20:23

The killers didn't enter the property, but instead lay in, wait for their target to walk out the front door or as they were approaching it upon arriving home, according to the daily Telegraph newspaper, one reporter in the Serbian capital of Belgrade was assassinated in this fashion just days before Juul was in the exact same manner.

20:49

Yeah. I remember when all this was going on, back in that time, 1999, it was terrible.

20:54

It was all over the news.

20:56

Yeah. It was terrible. There's no doubt about it, but I want to go back to these calls, right?

21:03

Claiming responsibility.

21:04

Well, if you have other instances of journalists being killed in pretty much the exact same fashion, you have to take those claims.

21:14

Very, Yeah.

21:17

They have to take it seriously. Like you said.

21:19

I mean, there's always a chance. It could be one of these groups that like to claim responsibility for any tragic event for their own cause Yeah,

21:29

we know that does happen.

21:31

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24:44

reported by ITV in the weeks leading up to Jill's murder, she made a public appeal for aid for Kosovan, Albanian refugees, according to the express and the daily mirror newspapers.

25:00

This was believed to have angered serve militants who are already looking to take revenge on Britain for the NATO bombings.

25:08

And I think authorities thought, you know, with travel around, you're being relatively easy due to the size of the continent.

25:16

It wouldn't have been hard for Serbian groups to outsource their assassination missions to Serbs based in other countries.

25:26

And the UK is national criminal intelligence service received credible reports that this was what may have occurred in Jill's case.

25:35

According to ITV, the men involved in the shooting had met at a London bar beforehand.

25:41

The shooter was said to be a man with a swallow tattoo on his neck.

25:46

And this has been described as kind of a typical British sailor tattoo of a bird.

25:52

You have seen these in pictures sometimes on their neck, sometimes on the shoulder of that swallow bird, the Intel included details alleging the killer had arrived in Britain after coming through Germany and France and Gibbs.

26:05

These anonymous calls made directly to BBC executives threatened that Jill Dando wouldn't be the last reporter to lose her life.

26:16

The outlets head of news was identified as the next target with the caller saying, listen, you at the BBC or the voice of your government.

26:26

That's why your reporter is dead because your government killed innocent people.

26:32

West got to hit home. Well, I think a lot of people at the BBC had to have been scared, you know, could they be a target and Gibbs?

26:41

We'd mentioned the guardian a couple of times already.

26:45

This theory was supported by them.

26:48

They published articles soon after Jill's murder, basically rejecting police explanations as to why they didn't believe Jill's death was politically motivated in the end.

27:00

Investigators determined that these calls were hoaxes.

27:04

But I think the problem is we don't have any information as to, you know, how they arrived at that decision.

27:12

The newspaper was also critical of police eliminating the Serbian connection so quickly, despite the fact that no one on the investigative team ever traveled to Serbia or even consulted with the Serbian police.

27:28

I don't know if that was the time to go over to Serbia, to consult with anybody.

27:32

I thought about that too. I'm not sure that that was the play there, but I can also see why, you know, the paper would have criticized kind of nixing this connection so quickly and saying that the calls were a hoax.

27:51

It wasn't until three months after Jill's murder that the lead investigator claimed he wasn't aware of any Intel relating to the alleged meeting of the men at the London bar.

28:02

It was reported that police didn't make any attempts to identify the man with the tattoo either.

28:09

Now, obviously the police must have had some reasons for not pursuing these avenues.

28:15

We don't know what they are, but that makes sense, right?

28:18

Because the media, the public, they wouldn't be privy to that information.

28:24

Oh, it's an ongoing investigation, But

28:26

it's also frustrating. I think when you hear about stuff like this, I mean, at the very least there's a definite lack of transparency, but we see that quite a bit in unsolved cases, like you just said, it's an ongoing investigation.

28:44

Do police normally just throw everything out that they know?

28:48

Well, of course not. No. And they're not going to, I Think

28:51

it's very difficult to be transparent, But

28:53

it's also the reason why people are sometimes skeptical of what the police say and you know, okay, questioning, why are they not going down this avenue?

29:07

Why are they not looking at this person or this group of people?

29:12

What are they Doing? Are they just sitting around not doing anything Tied

29:15

to the theory of an organized shooting was the suggestion that Jill had been murdered in cold blood by a contract killer.

29:23

Now, unless someone was conducting intense surveillance of Jill in the months leading up to her murder, this appeared an unlikely scenario.

29:32

At least as far as the police were concerned, when investigators reviewed CCTV footage of Jill at the shopping on our way back to full them though one could be seen following her, please checked 80,000 phone records in the Fulham area from the morning in question, but we'll come back to this theory a little later during their inquiries police discovered Jill didn't have a will in place when she died.

30:00

And this detail was important because no one specifically stood to inherit Jill's assets valued at just over half a million pounds.

30:09

So since no one explicitly would benefit from Jill's death financially, this kind of eliminated greed as a possible motive.

30:20

In the end, after months of administrative processes, Joel's father was the sole beneficiary under British succession law.

30:30

But I do think this is a big point Gibbs because, you know, unlike in the case that we did this week on Teekat know about a black widow who murdered for financial gain, it's kind of hard to see that scenario here in the murder of Jill Dando, very difficult without a will specifically leaving your assets to a certain person.

30:57

Okay. Well, who would benefit from her death?

31:00

It was uncertain.

31:01

So would somebody murder her on the off chance that maybe they would get a piece of her assets unlikely?

31:12

So then I think, you know, you have to look at jealousy, maybe a crime of passion police excluded any previous romantic interests or Jill's devastated fiance Allen, as both the killer and the orchestrator of the murder.

31:30

There was nothing to suggest their relationship was anything but perfect or that the couple had argued recently.

31:39

They couldn't find where Joel had been involved in any disputes with her neighbors.

31:44

Police looked at the possibility that a fan, maybe even a stalker murder, Jill, Jill did confide in those close to her about someone making her feel uncomfortable.

31:58

According to the times her brother Nigel told detectives that yes, in fact, Joel had mentioned in the days before her death, that quote, some guy had been annoying.

32:10

Her police investigated all of Jill's incoming and outgoing phone calls, emails, and correspondence leading up to her death while detectives identified some people who had a fixation on Jill, nothing really stood out as being a cause for concern.

32:30

So they're able to check that off the list.

32:32

Well, in their minds, they were able to check it off the list.

32:36

Does that mean that they knew for sure, I don't see how they could have no, I get it.

32:42

You didn't find anything that stood out to you that made you think it was this person or that person, But

32:50

you can't be 100% certain.

32:54

No, absolutely not. Months passed.

32:57

According to the express newspaper investigators took over 1000 formal statements and contacted more than 2,500 people.

33:06

Over 7,000 phone calls had been received providing information.

33:11

So, I mean, this is a Lot,

33:13

that's a lot of information coming in when you Factor

33:16

in formal statements, talking to a large number of people, a very, very large number of phone calls, but really police had very little to show for it.

33:29

But the police really didn't share a lot of this information with the public and what they learned from all these calls and interviews because they were keeping everything pretty tight at that point.

33:40

So Jill's The case went cold gives,

33:43

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33:46

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33:50

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35:05

Ironically, the crime show, Joe co-hosted Crimewatch publicly broadcast a reconstruction of her murder to elicit tips from viewers information came in about sightings of a man in the area that morning, but really nothing specific.

35:22

It was extremely disappointing for detectives.

35:25

Who'd worked diligently for a positive outcome for Jill's lovely.

35:30

The ones. I wonder how hard that had to be to reconstruct that with her fellow coworkers on Crimewatch to put that together, he was probably hard on them or you think they were just trying to do the best they can to help solve this murder?

35:45

I think both. I think it was extremely hard, but I also probably think they were doing the best they can because they thought it would help you think about John Walsh being the victim of a murder.

35:58

Yeah, no, here here's a man who's devoted a large chunk of his life to trying to bring justice he's murdered.

36:08

And the show has to do an episode about his murder looking for his killer.

36:16

Yeah, I think they would do it back in the day when he had his, you know, America's most wanted or whatever, whatever show he has now, he's had a number of shows.

36:26

It would be extremely tough for anyone involved, but at the same time, my thought is they would think this is what John would have wanted.

36:36

And if it brings in one tip, then it was well worth it.

36:41

Yeah, but it can be easy for anybody involved in the show.

36:45

And I'm sure it wasn't for anyone involved with crime watch either one theory that the public wasn't aware of at the time was the suggestion that Joe had not only been gathering evidence about the alleged existence of a pedophile ring at the BBC, but had given the results of her undercover investigation to BBC senior management.

37:08

The theory went that someone at the BBC got wind of what Jill had uncovered and killed her to sound, sir.

37:15

But the BBC later revealed there was nothing to substantiate this theory.

37:21

Okay. That jumps out at me a little bit because I'm thinking if she was investigating people at her own workplace, those same people come out later and say, Nope, there's nothing here to substantiate the theory.

37:35

That doesn't make any sense to me.

37:37

Now, if police came out and said, we checked into it, we couldn't find anything to substantiate the theory.

37:44

That would be one thing. The first anniversary of Joel's murder came and went with no signs of an impending arrest or really any sort of breakthrough.

37:54

Please didn't have a murder weapon.

37:57

Detectives decided to go back and refocus their efforts on residents of Fullam and the surrounding suburbs.

38:04

They began investigating a theory that Jill's murder had simply been opportunistic instead of some type of sophisticated hit, please came across a man with learning difficulties named Barry George, who lived only about a half a mile away from Jill 39 year old.

38:24

Barry had a criminal record as a convicted sex offender with a pattern of stalking photographing and harassing women.

38:34

He also had fascination with guns.

38:37

So, I mean, I think just looking at this guy on paper Gibbs, I'm sure police thought, okay, we need to look at him.

38:45

He could potentially have had something to do with this.

38:49

His alibi was unreliable because police learned that he had fabricated it by contacting a local taxi company the day after Jill's murder.

39:02

Now none of this of course means that he was the killer.

39:06

There was no evidence directly linking him to the crime, but the investigative team placed him under surveillance, which concluded in Barry's arrest.

39:16

In may of 2003 days later, he was charged with Jill's murder and his photograph was shown in every newspaper across Britain, but Barry denied knowing Joe or ever having any contact with her forensic officers found a microscopic trace of gunpowder residue inside a coat pocket of berries, which matched the bullet at the crime scene.

39:41

A fiber matching a pair of Barry's pants was also found at the scene.

39:47

The prosecution relied on this evidence at Barry's trial, which occurred in mid 2001, where he was found guilty and sentenced to life for the police and Jill's family.

39:59

It was the outcome that they had worked for, that they had hoped for.

40:04

But for others, including Berry, they felt that it was a case of wrongful conviction.

40:11

Public debate soon began around whether Barry's conviction was in fact, a miscarriage of justice.

40:18

Barry appealed his conviction, which was upheld, but Gibbs.

40:22

He was persistent. He appealed again in 2007, this time, the court decided to disallow the forensic evidence consisting of the gunshot residue and the single fiber.

40:36

It turns out the evidence wasn't as compelling as the prosecution had initially baited out to be.

40:44

There was a high possibility berries coat and pants had been contaminated at the lab and there was insufficient evidence he'd fired the gun.

40:53

And then there was the single fiber.

40:56

The weight given to that single fiber was disproportionate given the high probability that Barry had possibly picked it up somewhere else.

41:07

So in late 2007, the court upheld Barry's appeal, overturned his conviction and they ordered a new trial.

41:15

Joel's loved ones were of course heartbroken.

41:18

Well, but the investigators had to be upset as well.

41:21

Yeah, I think they were discouraged. They were frustrated because they were at a sense back at square one.

41:28

Not quite there, we're still going after Barry, but they didn't have the same ammunition.

41:35

So the case wasn't going to be as strong. Oh, there's no way at Berry second trial in mid 2008, the prosecution's case was weak and pretty much entirely circumstantial.

41:47

So I don't think all that many people were surprised when he walked free after being acquitted.

41:55

But even though the courts let Barry off the British newspaper, certainly didn't following his second trial, several tabloid publications, including the sun and the news of the world continued to publish stories, implying that the court had gotten it wrong.

42:14

Barry fought back and took legal action in the high court against the media outlets for defamation and was awarded damages in late 2009 where

42:25

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45:42

So gives, I think we have to regroup, you know, where does this leave us regarding potential suspects and motives?

45:49

We talked about it earlier. There was really only one eye witness.

45:53

Joel's male neighbor described to police.

45:56

A man he saw walking away from Jill's home at the time of the murder.

46:01

After he heard a scream, we mentioned it gives there's a lot of different theories in this case.

46:08

Some of which we've already mentioned, I think we have to run through them.

46:12

As we explained Jill's fiance.

46:13

Alan was excluded early on.

46:16

I think one thing that investigators had to look at was could there have been someone from her past holding a grudge or, you know, something like that.

46:28

Investigators spoke to those closest to Jill to see if she was possibly unfaithful to Allen, or if a former boyfriend could be involved, they looked at her phone records, they couldn't find anything.

46:41

Phone records didn't reveal anything suspicious.

46:44

There was the possibility Jill may have been targeted by a member of the public who had been stalking her.

46:51

We know it happens. We've actually covered some of these cases.

46:56

And you mentioned that earlier, that could be an option.

46:58

Now I think it definitely is, you know, we covered the case of Rebecca Schaefer, who was a celebrity and was killed by a stalker.

47:08

John Lennon was killed by a stalker in Jill's case.

47:12

We know her brother told police she'd been hassled by a man leading up to her death.

47:18

But when investigators looked into this angle, they couldn't find anything that supported the theory, nor was there anything to suggest Jill had been killed in a case of mistaken identity, but I think She's

47:30

just too well-known in that area.

47:34

Well, and also you have to look at where she was killed.

47:36

She was killed at her house.

47:38

So, you know, if she had been murdered elsewhere, well, maybe you could, you know, put a little bit more credibility into that theory.

47:47

I mean, I think given the fact that she was at her front door when she was shot, it makes that a little unlikely with her personal life, thoroughly investigated detectives move to consider whether the murder resulted from Jill's work.

48:03

And this aspect took the form of a number of theories.

48:07

Jill was extremely successful and had some of the most sought after gigs and broadcasting was one of her rivals.

48:15

So jealous that they would go to the extreme of murdering her, essentially murdering their competition.

48:23

Please spoke with Jill's agent at length, but she had no enemies in the industry.

48:28

When investigators looked at the kinds of programs, Joe presented, they had to entertain the possibility that someone came unhinged enough because they had been convicted due to being featured on Crimewatch.

48:43

And that's a possibility, it's always a possibility they might ever arrange for Jill to be murdered out of revenge.

48:50

And this happens, right?

48:53

It happens from behind bars.

48:56

You know, you wouldn't think it's possible, but people behind bars can orchestrate murders.

49:02

They can have other family members hire hitmen.

49:06

It, it does happen. But after investigating this angle, police ruled out this theory.

49:13

Then we have the contract killer theory, which we touched on quite a bit earlier, which we know police discounted.

49:21

Part of the reason for this is that we know Jill was living with her fiance by this time.

49:27

And she was no longer using Fullam as her home base.

49:32

When she was there. It was infrequent.

49:35

Investigators felt that a professional killer would have to have intimate knowledge of Juul schedule and movements to be able to be at her home at the exact time she arrived.

49:47

And then you have to consider the type of weapon used in the killing.

49:51

We talked about it, right? Ballistics experts had to determine that this was some type of modified pistol.

49:59

And that just doesn't seem like a tool that a professional contract Hitman would you, Why

50:08

would they want to take the risk of it? Not actually working?

50:11

They, because they can get a real pistol.

50:14

They're a professional. Even if it's illegal, they would have the means to obtain a gun.

50:21

They wouldn't need to modify or a replica or the commission, some type of firearm.

50:28

So I get that, that way of thinking.

50:31

And I guess you could Say that the professional killer could wait at her original home for her to get their, Yeah,

50:40

I don't think it's out of the question that, you know, somebody could be casing it.

50:46

Okay. They don't know when she's going to be there, but she, they know that she drops by and they're just waiting.

50:52

And then I think we have to talk again about the theory that Jill was killed by Serbian groups, as revenge for her charity appeal for refugee aid.

51:04

You know, what's interesting about this angle is that the defense also raised it at the first trial of Barry George Barry's defense team went so far as to identify the man they thought was responsible for Jill's murder.

51:19

They argued that Serbian warlord leader are, can orchestrated the attack in response to the death of 16 employees of Serbia state-owned broadcast network in a NATO bombing in the weeks before Jill died.

51:34

It seems like a pretty good theory.

51:37

I don't think you can throw it off the table again with unsolved.

51:41

Part of me doesn't want to throw anything off the table because plausible less plausible, more likely, less likely.

51:52

Can you say any of it's impossible?

51:55

I think it's kind of hard.

51:56

So, you know, unless you can rule something out.

52:01

So conclusively, I think it's hard to throw it off the table.

52:05

Yeah. One last theory is a suggestion which only publicly emerged off the back of revelations about late British TV personality, Jimmy Savile, and 2012 individuals came forward after his death publicly stating he had sexually abused or assaulted them throughout his career.

52:27

According to the Bristol post and Plymouth Herald newspapers at the time of Jill's death, she was said to have been one of the main agitators at the BBC to have the allegations investigated.

52:41

And this was well before there was any mention of it in the press.

52:46

Given the fact that Savile was still alive when Joel died.

52:50

And he was one of the country's most beloved entertainers.

52:54

If this theory was true, then both he and the BBC had a lot to lose.

52:59

Now I think when you see this theory online Gibbs, it doesn't really suggest that Savile himself had anything to do with Jill's death.

53:09

What I saw more was the possibility that someone may have wanted to protect one of the BBC's biggest stars.

53:18

It's a possibility. People love their stars.

53:21

People love their stars that make a lot Of

53:24

money. Yeah. I mean, of course I make them a lot of money too.

53:27

That's what I'm saying. You want to protect your assets.

53:32

But after over 20 years later, there really haven't been too many breakthroughs.

53:37

One thing which seemed to change was the view police had when a review was conducted almost 10 years after the murder, according to the Plymouth Herald this time around, they concluded a professional killer had murdered Jill.

53:51

This belief was based on a tip about a Serbian British citizen.

53:55

Living in the UK ITV revealed the man had been potentially involved, citing his history of violent offending firearms experience and alleged link to the Serbian warlord, Arkin, who we mentioned earlier and later named a suspect, but who died in 2000, but not all of the original investigators agree on this.

54:18

The lead detective continues to maintain Barry.

54:21

George was the killer today.

54:24

The murder weapon has not been found in 2019 two separate documentaries on the case were aired in Britain.

54:32

That same year something interesting happened.

54:35

We mentioned the murder of the reporter in Belgrade, which occurred just before Jill's death.

54:41

It turns out the parties responsible were convicted.

54:45

They ended up being four members of the Serbian secret service.

54:49

So I think Gibbs based on that, there are a lot of people who kind of go back to this Serbian extremist angle, given the fact that both reporters were killed in the same way.

55:04

But you know, as of today, there's really not been a lot of new updates.

55:10

This is a case that we'll have to continue to keep an eye on, to see if anything new comes up.

55:17

You know, I mentioned it earlier, this is a pretty famous unsolved case.

55:22

It's also, you know, for me kind of a very different unsolved case in that you have a number of theories, they vary wildly and may.

55:34

And some of that is based on the fact that Jill Dando was a celebrity.

55:39

She was known to many, many people.

55:43

You know, you have the Serbian angle.

55:47

Yeah. Which is based on her work, you have the possibility that she had a stalker.

55:54

She had told people that there was somebody who was kind of hassling her.

56:00

Maybe she was afraid of you have the angle that she wanted to, you know, investigate this Jimmy Savile and, and the things that he was up to.

56:10

There's just so many kind of theories in this case, there so much different than a normal unsolved case that we do, you know, think about small town USA with the victim who is not a celebrity, right?

56:25

So, you know, you're left with still a number of theories, but the theories are much different.

56:32

You know, it's either someone known to that victim, right?

56:36

Boyfriend, spouse, family, or it's a opportunistic killer, random, random looking for a victim.

56:48

They found this person and they killed it.

56:50

We just have some theories here in this case that are much, much different than what we normally see.

56:56

The problem is the end result as of today is still the same.

57:00

We don't know who is responsible for the murder of Jill Dando.

57:05

Someone does sure.

57:07

That part remains the same in every unsolved case.

57:11

Yes. Someone knows exactly what happened.

57:14

Now. There's no incentive for that person or persons to come forward and say, oh, Hey, let me tell you exactly what happened and who did it.

57:24

But you know, we're just going to have to wait and see if the police can put something together.

57:30

I know where I kind of lean, but I'm not sure.

57:32

Yeah, I got ya. Yeah.

57:34

I actually understand exactly what you're saying.

57:37

I do kind of lead in, in one direction, but it's really just kind of based on gut.

57:45

It's not based on fact really, because we don't have a lot of facts.

57:50

I'll say we have a lot of theories.

57:53

We have a lot of innuendo and kind of things like that.

57:57

But if you have any information on the murder of Jill Dando, you can submit a report to the London, metropolitan police in britain@wwwdotmetdotpolice.uk.

58:10

You can also call Crimestoppers UK at zero eight hundred five five five one one one, or submit an anonymous report via crimestoppers-uk.org.

58:23

But that's, it gives for our case on the unsolved murder of Jill Dando, we've got some voicemails.

58:28

You wanna check those out? I

58:30

am, I can give you this is Aaron again, out of Sacramento.

58:34

I just want to apologize. There might've been a mix up with my words.

58:37

Maybe I mumbled them or I'm sorry, but when we talking about the, the ax murders, I meant to say was that the author of the book, the man from the train, those others, they believe that those crimes were connected.

58:50

So I apologize, but just overall, I don't know if that's really a, you know, a fact or not, but I don't think anybody's gonna know for sure.

58:58

It's been a hundred plus years, but my, my apologies, I got my words mixed up.

59:01

I'm not saying you guys said that, but the others again, they think that it was one person, one criminal.

59:08

Anyways, I also too, got my ticket for crime crime.

59:12

I know you guys kind of helped that question. I had a couple of months back.

59:15

I just got the general admission.

59:17

So I'm looking forward to it.

59:18

Hopefully I might get to meet you guys and me a lot of other cool podcasters and in just system general, I'm looking forward to it may come soon enough, but anyways guys, thank you.

59:29

Keep your own time ticking the later.

59:32

I'm glad he clarified that because I think we questioned whether we said that or, or what, but absolutely awesome that you got your ticket for crime con.

59:41

You will see us. We will be, you will talk to us.

59:44

You will meet us. It will be great. We'll hang out.

59:47

I can't wait. Gibbs. I'm really looking forward to it.

59:49

Me too. Hi,

59:51

this is Danny. I'm from Maryland or maybe Eastern shore.

59:56

I love your podcast. I listen to you guys all the time.

59:59

You've gotten me through so many days, but the back to back between you two is very conical.

1:00:05

And I love that you guys just take the time to, to do these deep dive researches about these cases.

1:00:12

It's just so it's just also, you guys are awesome.

1:00:15

And I was just listening to the most recent episodes and you guys are office fans.

1:00:23

And I think that's also as well.

1:00:27

I have said awesome a lot.

1:00:29

So that means it's time for me to get off soon.

1:00:31

Get nervous for some dumb reason.

1:00:33

I hope you guys have a great day and Merry Christmas, happy holidays, happy new year's Eve to you, your family, your friends.

1:00:41

I hope you guys have a great empathy year.

1:00:44

When you say about that and our dog.

1:00:47

Awesome. And we do love the office. I think I just said on PA Patrion, that I just finished watching the whole series again.

1:00:54

And it makes me laugh every time.

1:00:57

And I find something new or maybe something I forgot, but it does make me laugh.

1:01:03

Hello? This is Edith white from Davenport, Iowa.

1:01:05

Again, just listening to the true crime unsolved of the George Smith.

1:01:10

And my daughter went on a cruise and someone disappeared from her, her cruise too.

1:01:16

And they covered it up and she thinks that they fell off the boat or was pushed off the boat, but nothing ever came of it.

1:01:24

And I just wanted to say, I missed you guys.

1:01:26

I was watching criminal. Not that, excuse me.

1:01:29

Sorry for getting the moment.

1:01:31

I was watching criminology, but miss you guys.

1:01:35

So I came back to listen to the N soft.

1:01:37

You guys keep your own times to get and stay safe.

1:01:41

Thank you. That's a big fear of mine phone and off the boat into open water.

1:01:46

I don't want to be an open water. Are you going to skip the givee moment?

1:01:49

That's why I played the voicemail.

1:01:52

She cracked me up. Sorry. I had to give him a moment there.

1:01:55

That made me laugh. When I first heard it, I

1:01:58

might can give me, my name is autumn.

1:02:00

I am a long time listener.

1:02:03

First time. Caller just wanted to give you a call today because I'm on a 10 hour road trip to Pennsylvania where I just bought a house and I get to move in tomorrow.

1:02:13

So that's super exciting. But anyway, I just wanted to take this time to actually give you a call and let you know a couple things.

1:02:21

First of all, I think that your time all the time yesterday and the next episode didn't play.

1:02:28

So I looked down at my phone and said, no new episodes.

1:02:32

So that was a surprise.

1:02:34

My job pretty much hit the floor when I realized I had fun anyway.

1:02:39

So I've kind of gone back and forth on whether or not to start on faults because you know, quite frankly, it just terrifies me that there are terrible, terrible people out there who have awful crimes and murders and all this, and they're just walking amongst us.

1:02:58

Anyway, I just started and I'm super, super glad I did because I heard Gibby say cousin and I locked it and I was thinking, you know, how should I think that I didn't start this podcast?

1:03:13

You guys just hilarious. You're amazing.

1:03:15

I appreciate all the hard work that you guys do to make this podcast every week.

1:03:20

Like, I'm sure that takes so much work and it really, really doesn't go unnoticed.

1:03:26

Just wanted to say, have a safe holiday.

1:03:28

And I appreciate you both and keep your own time thinking guys.

1:03:32

Thank you.

1:03:34

Bye. Congratulations On the new house.

1:03:36

Yeah, that's awesome.

1:03:38

And, and there are a lot of people who think, ah, it's just, you know, I can't handle the unsolved nature of it, but a lot of people, when they, when they try it, they're like, okay, it's still Mike and Gabby.

1:03:49

It's the same format and it's right.

1:03:51

You know, I'm just getting more, getting more, more.

1:03:55

We definitely appreciate it. All right, buddy.

1:03:56

That is it for another episode of true crime all the time unsolved.

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Apply. While traveling it's usually best to pack light when it comes to money, carrying some cash and having an alternative like Zelle is a great traveling, it's usually best to pack light. When it comes to money, carrying some cash and having an alternative like Zelle is a great idea. Zell's an easy way to send and receive money with people you trust at any us Jill's an easy way to send and receive money with people you trust at any bank. It's already in thousands of different banking apps and it's money straight into your bank account in minutes, fast, look for Zelle and your banking app It's already in thousands of different banking apps it's money straight into your bank account in minutes fast. Look for 1999 your banking app today. Safe Save your travels. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode two forty two of the True Crime All The Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. Dando with me, as always, is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson, give me what is going on with you. Hey, man. I'm doing okay about yourself. I'm doing very well. Yeah. Getting ready for the holiday season. My daughter's home from college. That's exciting. That is exciting. But still got a lot of brazen to buy, lot of things to do, a lot of places to go. People to see? People to see. Yeah. There's lot coming up, there is, in the next few weeks. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Melanie Kini, What's going on, Kenny? Rebecca Woodring. Hey, Rebecca. Kathy Holden. What's up Holden? Kathleen Phil. Phil? Phil. Okay. Sally Jill's. What's up Wilton? MIT paranormal. Yeah. That's a good old group back in the day, man. My my MIT day. He had some fun there. A little paranormal aspect to Jacob House. What's going on? Jacob? Mariah Mas reactors. Oh, Mas reactors. Borin Yegu. Wasabi Yegu? Angie Bitchas. What's going on? Bitchas? Jodya Howard. Hey, Jodya. Sorry. This is something about the way you said it. Kimi. Hey, Kimi. Janelle. Good old Janelle. Captain Jono Billings. Well, what's going on? Captain Billings? Ashley Olson. What's going on? Olson 1999? Single out. 1999? Polydemic. Hey, Paula. And last but not least Michelle And last but not least, Michelle Dando. Hey, Mandela. So we appreciate all the new support. And then if we go back into the Vault Kids Yeah. This week, we selected Jessica Hughes. What's going on, Jessica? Thank you. Yep. So we appreciate the continued support very much. We had some PayPal donations from Jennifer Aleman. Thank you, Jennifer. Melissa Buell. Oh, thanks, Melissa. And David Rhodes. Well, thanks, David. Yep. So thanks to everyone. Gibby right now on True Crime all the time. We have a brand new episode out on Black Widow, Judy, Bueno Dando, we do. And to me. The black widow cases are always the black widow cases are always fascinating. I mean, this was a woman that was so cold. So driven by greed that she was willing to not only kill husbands, boyfriends, She murdered her own son. Yeah. She had no limits. For money, it's beyond comprehension. Alright, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time, Unsul? I am ready. We are talking about the murder of Jill Dando. This is a pretty famous case. It is. In nineteen ninety nine, one of Jill's panicked neighbors called first responders after Jill was found slumped outside the front door of her home in Southwest London. The popular charismatic and famous TV journalist had been shot in the head at point blank range. And at the time of her death, Jill's Dando WAS A HYOLY RESPECTED BROADCASTER FOR THE B. C. SHE WAS KNOWN TO MILLIONS OF VIEWERS AROUND BRITAIN The brazen murder of someone so high profile broad daylight outside their own front door shocked and appalled the nation. Given the intense amount of media coverage have followed, and the investigative resources involved. Police thought that they found the person responsible. In two thousand one, two years after Jill's murder, investigators were relieved. To announce the case was all wrapped up. They charged a man who was later convicted of trial and sentenced to life imprisonment. But six years later, the alleged perpetrator's conviction was overturned on appeal. And then a second trial in two thousand eight resulted in the man being acquitted. There are several theories as to the identity of Jill's killer. Two of these theories took investigators down some very dark paths. One was into the world of an alleged pedophile ring The other explored the possibility that Jill was murdered by a contract killer connected to Jill's groups from Serbia engaged in the Kosovo war. It was suspected that the killing was possibly retaliation for the bombing of Serbia by NATO forces, but we'll get into more of that as we explore the details of the story. Ultimately, though, more than twenty years later, much to the devastation of Jill's family, her friends, colleagues, and the public. Detectives are no closer to solving the mystery of who shot her or what. Thirty seven year old Jill Dando. Was a successful journalist and news anchor at the top of her game. She was best known for co hosting the BBC program crime watch in the UK among her many achievements, born on November ninth nineteen sixty one in the town of Weston Supermer. In the county of Somerset, Jill's was the youngest of two children. Born two parents, Jack and Winifred, according to vice dot com. The family were devout Baptist Dando Jill continued to have a strong faith throughout her life. She was a high achiever from early on in life she became the head girl or school captain, and she excelled at her studies. Clearly, she had that type of personality to get where she did later in life. Yeah. I get the sense that she was a go getter. Yeah. Right? And you you know people like that. They're I don't wanna say they're cut above. They they're just very hard workers. They see a goal. They work hard to achieve that goal. there's really nothing that's going to stand in their way. They're just not going to let anything stand in the way of achieving that goal. I think it's I mean, look, I'm flatter that you keep looking at me and pointing to me. Mhmm. Sure. You know? Because I was thinking of you. I tried my hardest. According to the Weston Mercury Newspaper, by age seventeen, Jill was volunteering at Sunshine Hospital Radio in Weston's Super mayor. She then enrolled in a journalism degree at South Glumorgan Institute of Higher Education in Cardiff in Jill's. Following in the footsteps of her father and brother upon graduation. Joe cut her teeth by working at the local newspaper. In nineteen eighty five, she moved on to broadcast journalism, Dando her first news reading job for regional BBC radio. Britain's national broadcaster. Three years later, twenty six year old Jill was promoted to a national television role. Jill's face was the one viewer saw on BBC hourly news Bolton's until the mid nineties. So, I mean, twenty six years old. It really was an achievement because not only was she popular in Britain, but A lot of people turned to the BBC News in other countries, so she had that fame and notoriety as well. She took on other hosting roles, including the BBC's news morning time slot, the 1:00 PM and 6:00 PM took on other hosting Jill's, including the BBC's news morning time slot, the one PM and six PM news She also hosted a travel show, as well as the true crime series crime watch. That's one busy woman. Dando kinda how you make your dreams come true. You put in the work, you put in the effort good things happen. Jill's talent, professionalism, and down to earth, engaging personality, endeared her to viewers, and she received the BBC's personality of the Year Award in nineteen ninety seven. Now on the personal side in late nineteen ninety seven, Jill fell in love with the man she met on a blind date He was a gynecologist named doctor 1999 Farthing. The two were spent in with each other, They fell in love, and they became engaged in early nineteen ninety nine. According to the standard newspaper, The pair began making plans to wed in September that year and to start a family. So, Gibbs, it sounds like she had found Love. Yeah. Her personal life was going very well. Her professional life was also going very well. She was due to host the British Academy television awards in May of nineteen ninety nine. So everything's firing on all cylinders. Yeah. And Dando she's got a lot going on, but a lot of good things in her life. According to the Times newspaper at the time of her murder, Joel owned a two story home in the redeveloped southwest London suburb above Fulham, which she'd purchased five years earlier. She didn't live there anymore as she was in the process of selling the house. Instead, she had moved into her fiancee Alms Place in the West London suburb of Chiswick, not all that far from Fulham. According to the Guardian, on April twenty six nineteen ninety nine, Jill woke at Allan's house. On the drive back to her home, she stopped at gas station. And then a shopping center in nearby Hammersmith Joe was looking forward to her appointment that afternoon for her wedding dress fitting. She arrived at her home and got out of her car at around eleven thirty AM. She walked up the path and was about to unlock her front door 1999 an unknown assailant approached her This person sees Jill from behind, shoved her onto the ground, and then pressed a gun to her head. And shot her once in her temple. The killer released his grip Jill's lifeless body, slumped on her doorstep as blood poured from the wound in her head, and then the killer calmly and quietly left the scene. But it was another fifteen minutes. Before a female neighbor made the shocking discovery and called the police and an ambulance. Jill was rushed to the hospital but it was too late. The autopsy revealed that the killer had shot using a nine millimeter short caliber semiautomatic pistol Gibbs. I think what we would call here in the United States, a three 80 over there, they call it nine millimeter short in think what we would call here in the United States a three eighty. Over there, they call it nine millimeter short. In Germany, it's called nine millimeter curbs, I think, something like that. Everybody's got their own name. Yeah. But it's it's a similar round. They just have different names for it. According to the Guardian, the Bulleit exited the other side of Jill's head. So basically, instead of using a silencer, it was theorized that the killer essentially achieved the same effect of suppressing the sound of the gunshot by pressing the end of the gun onto Jill's head and firing. You sometimes see that in movies where, you know, shooters use a Jill's. Yes. Or they use something to try to lesson the the noise. Now it was also sad that this most likely prevented the killer from being spattered with blood. Unfortunately, by the time first responders had left the crime scene, it was too contaminated to allow much forensic evidence to be gathered. So, you know, that's an interesting statement. And probably 1999 that we don't talk about all that 1999, you have first responders whose main goal is to what? Save lives. Yeah. Now do they know about contaminating crime Now do they know about contaminating crime scenes? Yes. I'm sure they do. I'm sure at some level that is part of their training, but it's not their first responsibility. No. Their first responsibility Dando their main focus is to you know, get to that individual, assess the scene, see what they can do to save a life. Yeah. That's the priority. Unfortunately, I can see where that can sometimes result in crime scene contamination. 1999 ballistics experts examined the round and cartridge case found at the scene, they found something unusual. They found a series of small markings on the casing. It looked as though the weapon and the bullet used by the killer had been tampered with somehow. According to the Guardian, the gun was possibly a converted replica or decommissioned firearm. Maybe that's because it's a little harder to get guns over there. Yeah. It could be. I mean, there are you know, firearms that, you know, we take for granted here in the US, you can go buy them. But they're illegal in the United Kingdom. You gotta wonder how reliable a decommission firearm Is though. Why I wondered about that too, but maybe that is the the guardian theorizing that it had to have been tampered with to allow it to fire. Now, as we often see with murders of public figures, the police investigation proceeded in the media spotlight Jill's deaths sent shock waves across the country kicking off the most extensive murder inquiry conducted to date by the Metropolitan Police. The investigation was code named Operation Oxford. According to the online British newspaper, the Independent, It was the biggest one of the costliest investigations in Britain since the Yorkshire Ripper. That was a big case. That was. We covered that. We covered that on TCAT. They spent a lot of money. Trying to figure out who the Yorkshire Ripper was. It was a massive investigation 1999 police questioned Jill's neighbors, one man told them that he heard a woman scream. Around the time Jill was murdered but he said he didn't hear a gunshot. But if we go back to the theory that the sound of the gunshot was muffed fold because the gun was pressed right up to Jill's head. Well, maybe that would make sense. The neighbor did have some other helpful information According to the Northern Echo newspaper, when he heard the screen, he looked outside and saw a man who appeared to be in his forties. He looked about six feet tall and was walking away from Jill's home. But no one else that police talked to notice anyone or anything suspicious in the area at the time or in the hours before Jill was murdered. So they had one person, but it's not a great start for the investigation 1999 far as eyewitnesses were concerned. Yeah. At this point, they only have one simple description of somebody. Yeah. It's not much to go on. Right? Six feet tall in his forties. Well, how many people in the area are about six feet tall and in their forties? Yeah. Probably bunch. There you go. Now how many of those people were walking away from Jill's home, not many. Yeah. So if you can get to that person, well, then you've got something. So police said about trying to figure out who killed Dando. It was a tough go. Gibby. I think when you think about a normal murder investigation. Let's say of a non celebrity. Okay? You're starting with family, significant others, friends, and then you're branching out from there. Right? Now you have a person who is known to a large population, you're gonna do the same thing. Because I I think you always do. You you work inside out. Right? You first have to to wonder, you know, was this someone that Jill knew Was it someone that she had recently met? But we said it. Right? She was a household name across the country 1999 knew her face. If someone felt that maybe she defended them or just plain decided they didn't like her, which happens? It does happen. And celebrities get stockers. We know that. I guess to me is when I'm comparing this investigation to other unsolved homicides -- Yeah. -- of non celebrities. It does seem more daunting, I think here. Right? Because it opens up a number of different avenues that you probably don't have in other types of homicide cases. You could be looking at a suspect pool That is very very large, which means the investigators are gonna have to work a lot harder. Well, one thing I know for sure is that there would have been a tremendous amount of pressure, right? From the public to solve this case, the more high profile, the from the public to solve this case. The more high profile, the case, I I think the more pressure that the police are going to be under. then on top of that, you know, you have the media as well as the public who are going to heavily scrutinize every move that they make. But police didn't have to wait long for a solidly. After Jill's murder, the BBC received several phone calls from anonymous callers with Eastern European accents claiming responsibility for the murder. The caller stated that Joe had been murdered in a revenge killing by Serbian militant groups. I think Gibby, you know, police had to take these claims seriously based on what was happening at the time, the Kosovo war in the former country of Yugoslavia had just begun in January. With Serbian forces clashing with Kosovo, Albanian rebels, NATO stepped in two months later. Undertaking airstrike campaigns to force the Serbs to withdraw. As detailed by the independent, Britain was part of this NATO coalition. So international relations between Britain and Serbia were on edge. Serb extremists were known for executing anyone from a nation questioning their authority, and they were also known for targeting journalists of enemy countries in highly secretive and carefully coordinated attacks. They also had a pretty easily identifiable MO. Reporters were killed where they should have felt the safest. Their own homes. The killers didn't enter the property, but instead, lady wait for their target to walk out the front door or as they were approaching it upon arriving home. According to the Daily Telegraph newspaper, one reporter in the Serbian capital of Belgrade was assassinated in this fashion just days before Jill's was killed in the exact same manner. Yeah. I remember when all this was going on back that time, nineteen ninety nine. It was terrible. It was all over the news. Yeah. It was terrible. There's no doubt about it. But I wanna go back to these Right? Claiming responsibility. Well, if you have other instances of journalists being Jill's, in pretty much the exact same fashion. You have to take those claims very seriously. Yeah. They have to take it seriously, like you said. I mean, there's always chance it could be one of these groups that like to claim responsibility for any tragic event for their own calls. Yeah. We know that does happen. Alright, All right, Gibbs, let's take a quick break to talk about some of our great Gibby. Let's take a quick break to talk about some of our great sponsors. First up is safe. 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That's one hundred dollars off at talkspace dot com promo code TK. And last in this segment, let's talk about June's journey who gets tired of a good who done in this segment, let's talk about June's journey. Who gets tired of a good who done it? I know I don't, and that's why I love June's I know I don't, and that's why I love June's journey. It's the perfect escape for me between research writing, all of the things that go into the podcast, you play as June Parker, an amateur detective investigating a series of mysteries, full of twists and turns around every corn. This is a game that has you putting your powers of observation to the test. You get to sharpen your sleuthing skills then relish the thrill of solving the case. You'll search for hidden clues to solve mystery after mystery across thousands of vivid You'll search for hidden clues to solve mystery after mystery across thousands of vivid scenes. That's one of the things that really jumped out at me about this game, the scenery. The imagery. It's outstanding. And with new chapters every week, there's always a new case waiting to be cracked. I love the hidden picture aspect of this game. It puts my mind through its paces, but at the same time, it's a getaway it's relaxation as puts my mind through its paces. But at the same time, it's a getaway. It's relaxation as well. So if you're ready to awaken your inner detect download June's journey free today on the Apple App Store or Google Play. As reported by ITV, in the weeks leading up to Jill's murder, she made a public appeal for aid for Kosovo, albanian refugees, According to the express in the Daily Mirror newspapers, this was believed to have angered Serb militants who are already looking to take revenge on Britain for the NATO bombings. And I think authorities thought you know, with travel around Europe being relatively easy due to the size of the continent, continent. It wouldn't have been hard for Serbian groups to outsource their assassination missions to Serbs based in other it wouldn't have been hard for Serbian groups to outsource their assassination missions to Serbs based in other countries. countries. And the UK is national criminal intelligence service received credible reports that this was what may have occurred in Jill's UK's national criminal intelligence service received credible reports that this was what may have occurred in Jill's case. According to ITV, the men involved in the shooting had met at a London bar beforehand. The shooter was said to be a man with a swallow tattoo on his neck. And this has been described as kind of a typical British sailor tattoo of a bird. Yeah. I've seen these in pictures sometimes on their neck, sometimes on the shoulder of that swallow bird. The intel included details alleging the killer had arrived in Britain after coming through Germany and France Dando these anonymous calls made directly to B. C. Executives brazen that. Jill's Dando wouldn't be the last reporter to lose her life. The outlets head of news was identified as the next target, with the caller saying, listen, you at the BBC or the voice of your government. That's why your reporter is dead because your government killed innocent people. West gotta hit home. Well, I think a lot of people at the BBC had to have been scared. Could they be a target? And Gibby, we've mentioned the Guardian newspaper a couple times already This theory was supported by them. They published articles soon after Jill's murder, basically rejecting police explanations as to why they didn't believe Jill's death was politically motivated. In the end, investigators determined that these calls were hoaxes. But I think the problem is we don't have any information as to, you know, how they arrived at that decision The newspaper was also critical of police eliminating the Serbian connection so quickly. Despite the fact that no one on the investigative team ever traveled to Serbia or even consulted with the Serbian police. I don't know if that was the time to go over to Serbia to consult with anybody. Yeah. I kinda thought about that too. I'm not sure that that was the play there, but I can also see why you know, the paper would have criticized kind of nicksing this connection. So quickly Dando saying that the calls were a hoax. It wasn't until three months after Jill's murder. That the lead investigator claimed he wasn't aware of any intel relating to the alleged meeting of the men at the London bar bar. It was reported that police didn't make any attempts to identify the man with the tattoo was reported that police didn't make any attempts to identify the man with the tattoo either. Now, obviously, the police must have had some reasons for not pursuing these avenues. We don't know what they are, but that makes sense. Right? Because the media the public, they wouldn't be privy to that information. Oh, it's an ongoing investigation, but it's also frustrating. frustrating. I think when you hear about stuff like this, I mean, at the very least there's a definite lack of transparency, but we see that quite a bit in unsolved cases, like you just said, it's an ongoing think 1999 you hear about stuff like this, I mean, at the very least, there's a definite lack of transparency, but we see that quite a bit unsolved cases like you just said. It's an ongoing investigation. Do police normally just throw everything out that they know. Well, of course not. 1999. No. And they're not going to, I they're not going to. I think it's very difficult to be transparent. But it's also the reason why people are sometimes skeptical of what the police say Dando know, okay, questioning, why are they not going down this avenue? avenue? Why are they not looking at this person or this group of Why are they not looking at this person or this group of people? Yeah. What are they doing? Are they just sitting around not doing anything? Tied Tied to the theory of an organized shooting was the suggestion that Jill had been murdered in cold blood by a contract the theory of an organized shooting, was the suggestion in that Jill had been murdered in cold blood by a contract killer. Now unless someone was conducting intense surveillance of Jill, in the months leading up to her murder, disappeared in unlikely scenario. At least as far as the police were concerned, 1999 investigators reviewed CCTV footage of Jill at the shopping center on her way back to Fulham, though one could be seen following her. Please check eighty thousand phone records in the Fulham area from the morning in question. But we'll come back to this theory a little later. During their inquiries, police discovered Jill didn't have a will in place when she died. died. And this detail was important because no one specifically stood to inherit Jill's assets valued at just over half a million this detail was important because no one specifically stood to inherit Jill's assets valued at just over half a million pounds. So since no one explicitly would benefit from Jill's death financially, this kind of eliminated greed as a possible motive. In the end, after months of administrative processes, Jill's father, was the sole beneficiary under British succession laws. But I do think this is a big point, Gibby, because you know, unlike in the case that we did this week on TCAT, you know, about a black widow who murdered for financial gain it's kind of hard to see that scenario here in the murder of Jill Dando. Yeah. Very difficult. Without a will specifically leaving your assets to a certain person. Okay. Well, who would benefit from her death death? It was was uncertain. So would somebody murder her on the off chance that maybe they would get a piece of her assets? Unlikely. Unlikely. unlikely? So then I think, you know, you have to look at jealousy, maybe a crime of passion police excluded any previous romantic interests or Jill's devastated fiance Allen, as both the killer and the orchestrator of the I think, you know, you have to look at jealousy, maybe a crime of passion, police excluded any previous romantic interests or Jill's devastated fiancee, Allen, as both the killer and the orchestrator of the murder. There was nothing to suggest. Their relationship was anything but perfect. Or that the couple had argued recently. They couldn't find where Jill had been involved in any disputes with her neighbors Police looked at the possibility that a fan, maybe even a stalker, murdered Jill's, did confide in those close to her about someone making her feel uncomfortable. According to the times, Her brother, Nigel, told detectives that, yes, in fact, Joel had mentioned in the days before her death that, quote, some guy had been annoying her. Police investigated all of Jill's incoming and outgoing phone calls, emails, correspondence leading up to her death. While detectives identified some people who had a fixation on Jill's, really stood out as being a cause for concern. So they're able to check that off the list? Well, in their minds -- Yeah. -- they were able to check it off the list. Does that mean that they knew for sure? I don't see how they could have. No. I get it. it. You didn't find anything that stood out to you that made you think it was this person or that person, didn't find anything that stood out to you that made you think it was this person or that person but you can't be one hundred percent certain. No. No. Absolutely not. Months past. According to the express newspaper, investigators took over one thousand formal statements and contacted more than twenty five hundred people. Over seven thousand phone calls had been received providing information. information. So, I mean, this is a I mean, this is a lot. There's a lot of information coming in. When you factor in formal statements, talking to a large number of people, a very very large number of phone calls, But really, police had very little to show for it, but the police really didn't share a lot of this information with the public. What they learned from all these calls and interviews because they were keeping everything pretty tight at that pointblank case went cold. Gibby, I gives, I want to take a quick minute to tell everyone about high take a quick minute to tell everyone about Hi Chew. chew. This is a candy that's been around for awhile, but I have to be honest with is a candy that's been around for a while, but I have to be honest with you, you. 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While you're there, check out how you can become a member of the high chew chew crew, which is an exclusive club where you receive special offers and all the cool things go to While you're there, check out how you can become a member of the hai chu chu crew, which is an exclusive club where you receive special offers, and all the cool things. Go to hi dash q dot com slash high-chew.com/win. Ironically, the crime show, Joe co-hosted Crimewatch publicly broadcast a reconstruction of her murder to elicit tips from viewers information came in about sightings of a man in the area that morning, but really nothing show Joe co hosted crimewatch publicly broadcast a reconstruction of her murder to elicit tips from viewers. Information came in about siding of a man in the area that morning, but really nothing specific. It was extremely disappointing for detectives. Who'd worked diligently for a positive outcome for Jill's loved ones. Wonder how hard that had to be to reconstruct that with Ruffalo coworkers on CrimeWatch to put that together. I think it was probably hard on them or you think they were just trying to do the best they can to help solved this murder. I I think both. I think it was extremely hard, but I also probably think they were doing the best they can because they thought it would help. You think about John Walsh being the victim of a murder. Yeah. You know, here a man who's devoted a large chunk of his life to trying to bring justice. He's murdered the show has to do an episode about his murder looking for his killer. Yeah. I think they would do it back in the day when he had his, you know, America's 1999 that are what whatever show he has now. He's had a a number of shows. shows. It would be extremely tough for anyone involved, but at the same time, my thought is they would think this is what John would have It would be extremely tough for anyone in Ball. But at the same time, my thought is they would think this is what John would have wanted wanted. And if it brings in one tip, then it was well worth it brings in one tip, then it was well worth it. Yeah. But it can be easy for anybody involved in the show, and I'm sure it wasn't for anyone involved with Prime Watch either. One theory that the public wasn't aware of at the time was the suggestion that Joe had not only been gathering evidence about the alleged existence of a pedophile ring at the BBC but had given the results of her undercover investigation to BBC senior management. management. The theory went that someone at the BBC got wind of what Jill had uncovered and killed her to sound, theory went that someone at the BBC got wind of what Jill had uncovered Dando killed her to sound her. But the BBC later revealed there was nothing to substantiate this theory. Okay. That jumps out at me a little bit because I'm thinking if she was investigating people at her own workplace, Those same people come out later and say, nope, there's nothing here to substantiate the theory. That doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah. Now if police came out and said we checked into it, we couldn't find anything to substantiate the theory. theory. That would be one That would be one thing. thing. The first anniversary of Joel's murder came and went with no signs of an impending arrest or really any sort of first anniversary of Jill's murder came and went with no signs of an impending arrest or really any sort of breakthrough. breakthrough. Please didn't have a murder didn't have a murder weapon. Detectives decided to go back and refocus their efforts on residents of Fulham. And the surrounding suburbs. suburbs. They began investigating a theory that Jill's murder had simply been opportunistic instead of some type of sophisticated hit, please came across a man with learning difficulties named Barry George, who lived only about a half a mile away from Jill 39 year began investigating a theory that Jill's murder had simply been opportunistic instead of some type of sophisticated hit. Police came across a man with learning difficulty named Barry George who lived only about a half a mile away from Jill. Thirty nine year old Barry had a criminal record. As a convicted sex offender with a pattern of stalking, photographing, and harassing women. He also had a fascination with guns. So, I mean, I think just looking at this guy on paper Gibby, I'm sure police thought, okay, we need to look at him. him. He could potentially have had something to do with He could potentially have had something to do with this. His alibi was unreliable because police learned that he had fabricated it by contacting a local taxi company the day after Jill's murder. Now 1999 of this, of course, means that he was the killer killer. There was no evidence directly linking him to the crime, but the investigative team placed him under surveillance, which concluded in Barry's was no evidence directly linking him to the crime. But the investigative team placed him under surveillance. Which concluded in Berry's arrest in May of two thousand. Three days later, he was charged with Jill's murder. Dando his photograph was shown in every newspaper across Brazen, but Barry denied knowing Joe or ever having any contact with her. Forensic officers found a microscopic trace of gunpowder residue inside a coat pocket of berries, which matched the bullet at the crime scene. scene. A fiber matching a pair of Barry's pants was also found at the fiber matching a pair of Barry's pants was also found at the scene. scene. The prosecution relied on this evidence at Barry's trial, which occurred in mid 2001, where he was found guilty and sentenced to life for the police and Jill's The prosecution relied on this evidence. Barry's trial, which occurred in mid two thousand 1999, where he was found guilty and sentenced to life. For the police Jill's family, family. It was the outcome that they had worked for, that they had hoped was the outcome that they had worked for, that they had hoped for. But for others, including Berry, THEY FELT THAT IT WAS A CASE OF WRONGFUL CONVICTION. PUBLIC DEBATE SOON BEGAN AROUND WHETHER BERIES CONVICT was in fact a miscarriage of justice. justice. Barry appealed his conviction, which was upheld, but appealed his conviction, which was upheld, but Gibby Gibbs. He was was persistent. persistent. He appealed again in 2007, this time, the court decided to disallow the forensic evidence consisting of the gunshot residue and the single appealed again in two thousand seven, this time the court decided to disallow the forensic evidence consisting of the gunshot residue and the single fiber. fiber. It turns out the evidence wasn't as compelling as the prosecution had initially baited out to It turns out the evidence wasn't as compelling as the prosecution had initially bated out to be. There was a high possibility Berry's coat and pants had been contaminated at the lab Dando there was insufficient evidence he'd fired the 1999. And then there was the single fiber. fiber. The weight given to that single fiber was disproportionate given the high probability that Barry had possibly picked it up somewhere The weight given to that single fiber was disproportionate, given the high probability that Barry had possibly picked it up somewhere else. So in late two thousand seven, the court upheld Berry's appeal overturned his conviction Dando they ordered a new truck. Jill's ones were, of course, hard brazen, heartbroken. Well, but the investigators had to be upset as the investigators had to be upset as well. Yeah. I think they were discouraged. They were frustrated. Because they were at a sense back at square 1999, not quite. They were still going after berry, but they didn't have the same ammunition. So the case wasn't gonna be as strong. Oh, there's no way. At Berry's second trial in mid two thousand eight, the prosecution's case was weak Dando pretty much entirely circumstantial. circumstantial. So I don't think all that many people were surprised when he walked free after being don't think all that many people were surprised when he walked free after being acquitted. But even though the courts let bury off. The British newspaper certainly didn't. Following his second trial, several tabloid publications, including the sun, and the news of the world continued to publish stories, implying that the court had gotten it wrong. wrong. Barry fought back and took legal action in the high court against the media outlets for defamation and was awarded damages in late 2009 fought back and took legal action in the high court against the media outlets for defamation and was awarded damages in late two thousand nine. Right? where I gives let's take our last let's take our last break. You know, break. You know, one of my favorite things about this time of the year is the one of my favorite things about this time of the year is the food. food. I can never get enough of how amazing everything can never get enough of how amazing everything smells. And smells. And speaking of smells, I have to tell you about speaking of smells, I have to tell you about natives natives. 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Jill's male neighbor described to police a man he saw walking away from Jill's home at the time of the murder after he heard a scream. We mentioned it gives there's a lot of different theories In this case, some of which we've already mentioned, I think we have to run through them. As we explained, Jill's fiancee Allen was excluded early on, I think one thing that investigators had to look at was could there have been someone from her past? Holding a grudge or, you know, something like that, investigators spoke to those closest to Jill to see if she was possibly unfaithful to Allan or if a former boyfriend could be involved. They looked at her phone records, they couldn't find anything. Phone records didn't reveal anything suspicious. suspicious. There was the possibility Jill may have been targeted by a member of the public who had been stalking There was the possibility Jill may have been targeted by a member of the public who had been stalking her her. We know it know it happens. We've actually covered some of these cases. you mentioned that earlier, that could be an option. No, I think it definitely is. You know, we covered the case of Rebecca Schafer, who was a celebrity Dando was killed by a stalker, John Lennon was killed by a stalker. In Jill's case, we know her brother, told police she'd been hasseled by a man. Leading up to her death. But when investigators looked into this angle, they couldn't find anything that supported the theory. Nor was there anything to suggest Jill had been killed in a case of mistaken identity. But I think she's just too well known in that area. Well, and also you have to look at where she was killed. killed. She was killed at her She was killed at her house. So, you know, if she had been murdered elsewhere, well, maybe you could you know, put a little bit more credibility into that theory. I mean, I think given the fact that she was at her front door when she was shot, it makes that a little unlikely. With her personal life thoroughly investigated detectives moved to consider whether the murder resulted from Jill's work. And this aspect took the form of a number of theories. Jill was extremely successful had some of the most sought after gigs in broadcasting was one of her rivals so jealous that they would go to the stream of murdering her, essentially murdering their competition. competition. Please spoke with Jill's agent at length, but she had no enemies in the spoke with Jill's agent at length. But she had no enemies in the industry. When investigators looked at the kinds of programs Joe presented, they had to entertain the possibility. That someone came unhinged enough because they had been convicted due to being featured on crime watch. It is a possibility. It's always a possibility. It might have arranged for Jill to be murdered out of revenge. And this happens. Right? It happens from behind bars. bars. You know, you wouldn't think it's possible, but people behind bars can orchestrate You know, you wouldn't think it's possible, but people behind bars can orchestrate murders, murders. They can have other family members hire they can have other family members hire hit men. It it does happen. But after investigating this angle, police ruled out this theory. Then we have the contract killer theory. Which we touched on quite a bit earlier, which we know police discounted. Part of the reason for this is that we know Jill was living with her fiance say by this time, and she was no longer using fulham as her home base. When she was there, it was infrequent. infrequent. Investigators felt that a professional killer would have to have intimate knowledge of Juul schedule and movements to be able to be at her home at the exact time she felt that a professional killer would have to have intimate knowledge of dual schedule and movements to be able to be at her home at the exact time she arrived. And then you have to consider the type of weapon used in the killing. We talked about it. Right? Ballistics experts had determined that, you know, this was some type of modified pistol. pistol. And that just doesn't seem like a tool that a professional contract Hitman would you, that just doesn't seem like a tool that a professional contract hitman would use. Why would they wanna take the risk of it not actually working? Right? Because they can get a real pistol. Yeah. pistol. They're a for professional. Even if it's illegal. Right. They would have the means to obtain a gun. Yeah. gun. They wouldn't need to modify or a replica or the commission, some type of They wouldn't need to modify a a replica or decommission. Yeah. Some type of decommissioned firearm. firearm. So I get that, that way of I get that that way of thinking. And I guess you could say that the professional killer could wait at her original home for her to get there. Yeah. I don't think it's out of the question that you know, somebody could be casing it. Okay. They don't know when she's gonna be there, but she they know that she drops by. Dando they're just waiting. And then I think we have to talk again about the theory that Jill was killed by Serbian groups as revenge for her charity appeal for refugee aid. You know, what's interesting about this angle? Is that the defense also raised it at the first trial of Barry George. Barry's defense team went so far as to identify the man they thought was responsible for Jill's murder. They argued that Serbian warlord leader, Arcan, orchestrated the attack in response to the death of sixteen employees of Serbia's state owned broadcast network in a NATO bombing in the weeks before Jill's Seems like a pretty good theory. I don't think you can throw it off the table. Again, with unsolved, part of me doesn't wanna throw anything off -- Right. -- the table because plausible less plausible, more likely, less likely. Can you say any of it's impossible? I think it's kinda hard. So, you know, unless you can rule something out so conclusively. I think it's hard to throw it off the table. Yeah. One last theory is a suggestion which only publicly emerged off the back of revelations about late British TV personality, Jimmy Savill. In two thousand twelve, individuals came forward after his death. Publicly stating he had sexually abused or assaulted them throughout his career. According to the Bristol post Plymouth Harold, newspapers at the time of Jill's death. She was said to have been one of the main agitators at the BBC to have the allegations investigated. And this was well before. There was any mention of it in the press. Given the fact that Saville was still alive when died he was one of the country's most beloved entertainers. entertainers. If this theory was true, then both he and the BBC had a lot to this theory was true, then both he and the BBC had a lot to lose. Now, I think when you see this theory online, Gibby, it doesn't really suggest that savile himself. Had anything to do with Jill's death. What I saw more was the possibility that 1999 may have wanted to protect one of the BBC's biggest stars. It's a possibility. People love their stars. People love They're stars that make a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, of course, could make them a lot of money too. too. That's what I'm what I'm saying. You want to protect your assets. But after over twenty years later, there really haven't been too many breakthroughs. One thing which seemed to change was the view police had when a review was conducted almost ten years after the murder. According to the Plymouth Herald, this time around they concluded a professional killer had murder. Jill. This belief was based on a tip about a Serbian British citizen living in the UK. ITV revealed demand had been potentially involved citing his history of violent defending, firearms experience, and alleged link to the Serbian warlord Orkin. Who we earlier Dando later named a suspect, but who died in two thousand. But not all of the original investigators agree on this. this. The lead detective continues to maintain lead detective continues to maintain Barry George was the killer. To date, today. The murder weapon has not been found in 2019 two separate documentaries on the case were aired in murder weapon has not been found. In two thousand nineteen, two separate documentaries on the case were aired in Britain. That same year something interesting happened. We mentioned the murder of the reporter in Belgrade, which occurred just before Jill's death. death. It turns out the parties responsible were It turns out the parties responsible were convicted. convicted. They ended up being four members of the Serbian secret ended up being four members of the Serbian Secret Service. So I think Gibby based on that There are a lot of people who kind of go back to this Serbian extremist angle. Yeah. Given the fact that both reporters were killed in the same way, but, you know, as of today, there's really not been a lot of new updates updates. This is a case that we'll have to continue to keep an eye on, to see if anything new comes is a case that we'll have to continue to keep an eye on to see if anything new comes up. You know, I mentioned it earlier. This is a pretty famous unsolved case. It's also, you know, for me, kind of a a very different unsolved case in that you have a number of theories. They vary wildly. And and some of that is based on the fact that Dando was a celebrity. celebrity. She was known to many, many was known to many, many people, you know, you have the Serbian angle Yeah. Which is based on her work, you have the possibility that she had a stalker stalker. She had told people that there was somebody who was kind of hassling told people that there was somebody who was kind of hassling her or maybe she was afraid of you have the angle that she wanted to, you know, investigate this Jimmy Savill and and the things that he was up to. There's just so many kind of theories in this case. They're so much different than a normal unsolved case that we do. You know, think about small town USA with a victim who is not a celebrity. Right. So, you know, you're left with Jill's a number of theories, but the theories are much different. different. You know, it's either someone known to that victim, It's either someone known to that victim -- Right. -- boyfriend. Spouse, family, or it's a opportunistic Jill's. Random. Random looking for a victim. victim. They found this person and they killed found this person they killed them. We just have some theories here in this case that are much much different. Than what we normally see. The problem is the end result as of today is still the same. same. We don't know who is responsible for the murder of Jill We don't know who is responsible for the murder of Dando. Someone does? Sure. That part remains the same in every unsolved case. Yes. 1999 knows exactly what happened. Now, there's no incentive for that person or persons to come forward and say, oh, hey, let me tell you exactly what happened and who did it. But, you know, we're just gonna have to wait and see. If the police can put something together. I together. I know where I kind of lean, but I'm not where I kinda lean, but I'm not sure. Yeah. I got you. Yeah. I I actually understand exactly what you're saying. I do kinda lead in in one direction, but it's really just kind of based on god. Yeah. It's not based on fact really because we don't have a lot of facts, I'll say. Yeah. We have a lot of theories. theories. We have a lot of innuendo and kind of things like We have a lot of innuendo and and kinda things like that. But if you have any information on the murder of Jill's Dando. You can submit a report to the London Metropolitan Police in Britain at WWW dot met dot police dot u k. You can also call crimestoppers UK at zero eight hundred 555111 or submit an anonymous report. Buy a crimestoppers dash u k dot org. crimestoppers-uk.org. But that's, it gives for our case on the unsolved murder of Jill Dando, we've got some But that's it Jill's for our case on the unsolved murder of Jill's We got some voice mails you wanna check those out. Let's hear them. Hi, Mike and Gimi. This is Aaron again out of Sacramento. I just wanted to apologize. There might have been a mix up of my words, maybe a mumbo number sorry, but when we're talking about the ax murders, I meant to say was that the author of the book, the man from the train those others, they believed that those crimes were connected. So I apologize, but just overall, I don't know if that really a fact or not, but I don't think anybody's got to know for sure. It's been hundred plus years. But my apologies, got my word mixed up. Saying you guys said that, but the others again, they they think that it was one person, one criminal. Anyways, I also too got my ticket for a crime crime. I know you guys kind of helped with that question. I had a couple months back. I just got the general admission. So I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully, might get to meet you guys and meet a lot of other cool podcasters Sam just in general. I'm looking forward to it. Mayank comes soon enough, but anyways guys, thank you. Keep your on time kicking. See you later. Bye bye. I'm glad he clarified that because I I think we questioned whether we said that or or but absolutely awesome that you got your ticket for crime crime, you will see us. us. We will be, you will talk to will be You will talk to us. You will meet us. us. It will be will be great. We'll hang out. I can't wait because Gibbs. I'm really looking forward to I'm really looking forward to it. Me too. Hi. This is Dando. I'm from Maryland on the Eastern Shore. I love your podcast. podcast. I listen to you guys all the I listen to you guys all the time. You've gotten me through so many days. But the back to back between you two is very technical. And I love that you guys just take the past due to do these deep dive researches about these cases. It's just so it's just awesome. You guys are awesome. And I was just listening to the most recent episode. you guys are office and I think that's also as well. I have said awesome a lot, so that means it's time for me to get off soon, get nervous for some 1999 reason. I hope you guys have a great day Mary Christmas, happy holidays, happy new year's eve to you, your family, your friends. I hope you guys have a great end of the year. You say about that, nor dog? Awesome. And we do love the office. I think I just said on pay Patreon that I just finished watching the whole series again. Dando it makes me laugh every time. Yeah. Dando find something new or maybe something I forgot, but it does make me laugh. Hello. This is Edith White from Downport, Iowa again. Just listening to the truth crime theft of the George Smith. Dando my daughter went on a cruise someone disappeared from her her cruise too, and they covered it up. And she thinks that they fell off the boat or was pushed off the boat, but nothing never came of it. And I just wanted to I have missed you guys. I was watching criminal criminal. Not that, excuse excuse me. Sorry for the give me a moment. I was watching criminology but I've missed you guys, guys. So I came back to listen to the N so I came back to listen to the unsolved. soft. You guys keep your own times to get and stay You guys keep your own time to Dando stay safe. Thank you. Bye. That's a big fear of mine falling off the boat into open water. I don't wanna be in open water. Are you gonna skip the Gibby moment? That's why I played the voice mail. Hear anything about She cracks me up. Sorry. I had to give you a moment there. What? That made me laugh when I first heard it. Hi, Megan My name is Autumn. I am a one time listener, first time caller. Just wanted to give you guys a call today because I'm on a ten hour road trip to Pennsylvania, where I just wanna help. And I get to move in tomorrow, so that's super exciting. But anyway, I just wanted to take this time to actually give you a call and let you know a couple things. First of all, I was thinking it took my whole time yesterday, and the next episode didn't play. So I looked down on my phone and had no new episodes, though. That was a surprise. My jaw pretty much hit the floor 1999 I realized my head caught up. But anyway, so I've kinda gone back and forth on whether or not to start unsolved, to because, you know, quite frankly, it just terrifies me that there aren't terrible terrible people out there who have committed awful crimes and murders and all this, and they're just walking amongst us. Anyway, I just started, and I'm super super glad I did because I heard Gibby say cousin, and I lost it. And I was thinking, you know, how could I think that I could have started to podcast? You guys just hilarious. hilarious. You're You're amazing. amazing. I appreciate all the hard work that you guys do to make this podcast every I appreciate all the hard work that you guys do to, you know, make this podcast every week. Like, I'm sure that takes so much work it really, really doesn't go unnoticed. Just wanted to say, have a safe holiday I appreciate both. And keep your own time to take you guys. Thank you. Bye. Hey, congratulations on the new house. Yeah. That's awesome. awesome. And, and there are a lot of people who think, ah, it's just, you know, I can't handle the unsolved nature of it, but a lot of people, when they, when they try it, they're like, okay, it's still Mike and and there are a lot of people who think, ah, just, you know, I can't handle the unsolved nature of it, but a lot of people they when they try it, they're like, okay? Yeah. Though Mike and Ghibli, it's the same format, and -- It's right. -- you know, I'm just getting more. Getting more. More. K. We more. We definitely appreciate definitely appreciate it. Alright, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime all the time unsolved. unsolved. 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