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1:09

one and welcomed episode two seventy

1:11

seven of the true crime all the time unsold

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1:16

me as always my partner and true crime my

1:18

gibson gimme are you male do well

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well had can have can rough we

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a detailed that out on pager on

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canada behind the scenes look

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that's true i did

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the begin to patrons gwen give our south our

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the gop jackie phase was

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yeah to our into it was that when it's not

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right now on true from all the time

3:15

we have an episode out on lionel

3:18

take

3:19

convicted of murder and sentenced

3:21

said the age of fourteen to life

3:23

in prison without the possibility

3:26

of parole

3:27

yeah

3:28

the shock some people think i think

3:30

a lot as facets of this case

3:32

or gonna sock people

3:34

exhibit up so make sure you check that out sorry

3:36

buddy are you a to get into the subsidies to

3:38

sam all the time until i am we're

3:41

talking about the death of joshua

3:43

matt

3:45

in may two thousand

3:46

joshua mannix left his home to

3:49

go for a walk something he did

3:51

often but this time josh

3:53

never came

3:55

seven years later

3:56

his remains were found inside

3:59

hm

4:00

in an abandoned cabin in

4:02

woodland park colorado less

4:04

than a mile from his house after

4:06

an investigation the actual

4:08

death was declared an axe based

4:11

on strange evidence left behind the cabins

4:14

in the position josh

4:16

is roommate when they were found

4:19

many people believe that he was mark

4:21

the intriguing already oh okay i get

4:24

into all the interesting detail

4:26

joshua burn in maddox was born

4:28

on march nine ninety ninety most

4:31

people knew him as josh

4:34

josh had two sisters ruth

4:36

and case and a brother named zack

4:38

his parents eventually divorce

4:40

josh lived with his father mike

4:42

maddox and his sisters in woodland

4:45

park colorado a small

4:47

town about twenty miles away from

4:49

colorado springs

4:51

the family had already experienced a

4:53

tragic

4:54

by the time josh went missing on

4:56

june first two thousand six josh

4:59

was older brother zachary

5:01

it is wise at the age of eighteen

5:04

after battling severe depression

5:06

it it was sad that josh was

5:08

significantly affected by

5:11

the loss of his brother

5:13

how can you be

5:14

the in may two thousand

5:16

eight josh had recently turned eighteen

5:19

it was well liked along

5:21

with others never

5:23

really got into any serious type of trouble

5:26

josh his sister kate wrote

5:29

an article for the news of woodland

5:31

park on september twenty fifth

5:33

two thousand city in this article

5:36

you described her brother is highly

5:38

intelligent kind and

5:40

creed the ah screws hair

5:42

out down to his shoulders and i use

5:45

a musician he loved playing

5:47

the guitar and writing songs

5:49

the used to love writing songs

5:51

and playing the guitar sure

5:53

i wish i could grow my hair out down

5:55

the my sole reason i could but it would

5:57

just be the very back

5:59

in a business in the front party in the back on of

6:02

a deal the problem is there's no business

6:04

going on in the front anymore that's

6:07

the main problem

6:08

josh his family told the denver post

6:10

that use very happy person

6:13

he loved music you love the outdoors

6:15

but he was also a prankster you

6:18

would sometimes interrupt class

6:20

president debates at school and

6:22

declare himself a kid the

6:25

wants put on a row and snuck onto

6:27

the stage with the school for while

6:30

they were performing though they

6:32

are kinda sounds like her class clown

6:34

jimmy raye but it

6:36

was sad in pretty much

6:38

everything i read that

6:40

though he was very well liked

6:42

by his classmates as

6:44

that was good to be the

6:45

twenty yeah

6:47

it's very good for making friends and

6:49

and neocon having people like us

6:51

teachers my non like you all

6:53

that much you know depending on

6:55

what type of class clown you are less

6:58

true

6:58

if you're good natured you're

7:01

okay but you know view

7:03

cross the line and in you

7:06

start ridiculing the teacher

7:08

or every joke is at a teacher's

7:10

expand so can smell like you that much

7:13

the kids will love you

7:15

on may two thousand eight josh

7:17

left home to go for walks

7:19

and we've already said this was normal behavior

7:21

for have something that he did often

7:24

the told his older sister kate

7:26

there he was leaving she didn't think much

7:28

of it because he often went on

7:30

hikes the josh was family

7:33

became cancer

7:34

when he didn't come back home that

7:36

evening and then they became

7:39

distraught when multiple days

7:41

past

7:42

no one had heard from drugs

7:44

the get it is eighteen you know

7:47

maybe he went somewhere with friends

7:49

they deny when your kid

7:51

doesn't come home or your brother

7:53

or sister whatever final return home

7:55

after the whole day you

7:58

gonna be concerned you're gonna be

7:59

concerned because i think you're expecting

8:02

them to come home rice it wasn't like

8:04

he said you know hey i am

8:06

i'm going a few states over exactly

8:09

i'm just going on a site

8:11

the me that's not i'm planning to

8:14

be gone for an extended

8:16

period of time

8:17

i'll be home sometime today

8:19

the winters in the days of course you're gonna be strong

8:22

yeah

8:23

on may thirteenth josh is

8:25

that my mavericks called the police

8:27

and report josh smith in

8:29

an interview was strange outdoors

8:32

mike said i got up one morning and

8:34

josh was there

8:36

then he just never came home

8:38

the next day he sold in come

8:40

home i called his friends nobody

8:42

had seen him nobody knows

8:44

where he though the first thing

8:46

the kind of runs through my mom the

8:49

is this family is destroyed

8:51

after a couple of days but five

8:54

days went by yeah

8:56

for call was made to police

8:58

the report josh missing the

9:01

year he's eighteen years older

9:03

the me still five days seems like a

9:05

long time it's hard to second

9:07

guess the family of someone

9:09

who goes missing fries when i

9:11

did a lot of people listening will say or

9:14

at least ask the question those

9:16

five days seem like a long time

9:19

to me a deaths or think so too

9:21

i think you know

9:22

eighteen or not

9:23

when he still living at home it just seems like

9:26

a

9:26

extended period of time yeah anna nice casting

9:28

aspersions on the family at all

9:31

i'm just pointing out that to me

9:33

i'm thinking i probably would have made

9:36

the call much

9:38

who knows i wasn't there i wasn't

9:40

privy to every bit of information

9:43

the police and josh his friends and family

9:46

look for him in their neighborhoods

9:48

throughout the town

9:49

the search for months and

9:52

sound nothing

9:53

it seemed as though

9:55

the had disappeared into thin air

9:57

they didn't leave any evidence

9:59

by his family said

10:02

they weren't sure why he would

10:04

have run away because you didn't

10:06

have any specific reason to want

10:08

to leave the for they knew he

10:10

wasn't involved in criminal activity

10:13

he didn't have any enemies who would want

10:15

to do him harm then he

10:17

wasn't in any type of

10:19

financial trouble

10:20

there's only eighteen so the much

10:23

more useful so any be at

10:25

age of eighteen

10:26

depending on what your in to then

10:28

i i get it eighteen you're still

10:30

kind of starting out

10:32

having there was some whole bar on the part of

10:34

the family that

10:36

maybe had left town to

10:38

pursue his music career

10:40

start a new lies in he would reach

10:42

out to them so

10:43

because i big as a family you

10:46

gotta try to figure out something

10:48

to

10:49

hang on to sure where you gonna

10:51

find that home

10:53

they just went through a tragic experience

10:55

two years prior though i'm sure

10:57

that they just want to have anything

11:00

positive to

11:01

the ban on gay and you're going to try to find

11:03

that now according to xinhua post

11:07

he said that since josh

11:09

was eighteen

11:10

it was reasonable to assume that he

11:12

may have decided to leave town to start

11:14

a new life

11:15

as one of his two older sisters

11:17

she said i have always chosen

11:19

to believe that this was the case

11:22

i had expected joss to return home

11:24

to my father's house at any time

11:27

the wife and small children so

11:29

that they can meet their grandparents and

11:31

to

11:33

josh is always been known for his musical

11:35

and literary talent so maybe

11:38

we would find him playing music with the band

11:40

on tour or catch him writing

11:43

successful novels under a

11:45

pen names so that he could keep his

11:47

preferred lifestyle of solitude

11:49

and the war the media's goes back

11:52

to exactly what i just said

11:54

as a family are you trying

11:56

to hold on to some sure

11:58

okay

11:59

he's out live in his lies he

12:02

he chose to do this case taken

12:04

his talents and

12:05

now why is he not cold as a mean it's

12:07

all those questions i'm sure go through

12:10

you're mine replied

12:12

the end of the day

12:14

you gotta be hopeful about some for sure

12:16

the please had no reason

12:18

to suspect foul play was involved

12:21

in josh his disappearance he

12:23

was listed as a missing person for

12:25

the next seven years

12:28

the two years have to be painful

12:29

extremely their i wonder

12:32

yeah

12:33

each successive year is more

12:35

painful than the last

12:37

why has any returned home why haven't

12:40

we received a call

12:41

why ever received a letter anything

12:43

right hey man i saw the

12:46

denver post josh was a free spirit

12:48

any always told us that he was going

12:50

to have a great adventure then

12:53

he may not talk to us for awhile

12:55

that when he said a while we saw it

12:57

may be few years

12:59

though

13:00

they're hang on to this whole but

13:02

it it seems as though they're there had been

13:05

some sort of precedent

13:08

that by josh that you

13:10

know maybe someday he's gonna do

13:13

this right he's going to go off

13:15

on this great adventure so i

13:17

think you can see why was

13:19

probably easy for them to

13:22

they get this is maybe what he did either

13:24

i go okay this must be that great adventure he

13:26

talked about and he did say we

13:28

my not hear from him for a few years maybe

13:30

if you met seven we don't know gives

13:33

almost like foreshadowing or

13:35

knew he was for warning them

13:37

that at some point i'm

13:40

going to take off right because i'm morning

13:42

for you some type of adventure

13:45

we've all felt that right and i have

13:47

have you felt that longing for the you

13:49

know the the adventure

13:51

these wanted to go do something

13:53

the i think i mentioned it to you before

13:55

i have the had this thought

13:57

that

13:58

the would be amazing

13:59

to load up the harley

14:02

in just gonna go cross country

14:05

the our for i could drive and a day

14:07

you find a little dinky

14:09

motel

14:11

we ban get up the next morning

14:13

and just right there and see how far i

14:15

could make it and see the sides and do all that

14:18

i think that would have been pretty cool if i was twenty

14:21

the problem is when i was twenty i couldn't afford

14:23

a harley i had no money when

14:26

i got to the point in my life where i could

14:28

afford a harley had a wife

14:30

i had two girls mortgage payment

14:33

college on the her us so

14:35

we're just didn't seem to have to line up to

14:37

be the right time and will sounds like the plot of

14:40

wild hogs a little bit yeah

14:42

the problem is i don't have the

14:45

rest of the wild hogs that's

14:47

true i need

14:49

three or four other guys

14:51

the form a group is not is

14:53

just one wilde whole the a wild

14:55

hog this is called wilde home

14:57

then you're not going to do well against the

15:00

el diablo

15:01

no i'm not going to say the whole town by myself

15:04

no not a according to the

15:06

strange outdoors mike maddox

15:08

continued living in woodland park

15:10

in case joshua came home

15:13

one day my said i buried

15:15

his older brother two years before

15:17

then it was so difficult on jobs

15:20

when his brother died the pushed

15:22

him over the edge it was a big shock

15:24

for the family and a big shock for

15:26

jobs he thought highly

15:28

of his older brother the

15:30

one thing that we your time and

15:32

time again that

15:36

parents or parent of him missing

15:38

child the often do not

15:40

wanna leave the area do not wanna leave

15:42

the house

15:44

they want to be there when their child

15:46

return is because what if he does

15:49

mike maddox told the washington post

15:51

for a long time every time

15:53

the phone would ring

15:55

i expected it to be the morgue

15:57

or the police once

15:59

they found

15:59

the body in new mexico i thought

16:02

it might be him

16:03

he said you just play awaiting

16:05

you have an empty chair the table and

16:08

an empty place in your heart mike

16:10

also told the pikes peak korea

16:13

he was such a wonderful board the kindest

16:15

nicest brightest boy

16:18

though year to me there's a little bit of a dichotomy

16:20

there and i'm sure that exists

16:22

in you know a lot of the situation

16:25

yes we talked about the home

16:27

you're okay he's gonna come back

16:29

he's on his is great adventure but

16:32

then you you know you have my talking

16:34

about what every time the phone would

16:36

ring okay is it going to be the

16:38

morgue telling me that

16:40

my son is dead the going to be

16:42

the please telling me that or that he got

16:44

in trouble the god

16:46

kind of of

16:48

the yin and yang their

16:50

gray

16:51

on the one hand a tremendous amount

16:53

of home i'm and on the other

16:56

it's like you're waiting for

16:58

the bad news the come there

17:00

that has to be extremely difficult

17:03

the years pass in a see my the mavericks

17:05

family would never give the answers

17:08

that

17:08

in

17:09

in on the afternoon of august seven

17:12

two thousand and sixteen workers

17:14

who had demolished in old camp found

17:16

human remains inside

17:19

the stones him the remains

17:21

were found it the wilderness development

17:24

in woodland park near rampart

17:26

range and kelly's roads the

17:29

cabin was being torn down for future

17:31

construction on the empty lot

17:34

the remains were found curled up

17:36

into the fetal position

17:38

in the lower part of the chimney it

17:40

looked like this person had been forced

17:43

through the damp

17:44

in into the smoke chamber above

17:46

the fireball the know the don't

17:48

know you chimney dampers gala

17:51

god a metal flapper some type

17:53

of mel device this seals up

17:55

the chimney to keep he's

17:57

inside when there's no fire in the pilots

18:00

the did have an open whole know that

18:02

know your he down the smoke chamber

18:04

is a part of the chimney right above the fire

18:06

box that allows the smoke to

18:09

enter the chimney and exit the house

18:11

and i think many people are listening has experience

18:14

the

18:15

opening the damper after

18:17

you with some firewood on fire the

18:20

new realize the houses smoking

18:22

the whole place is filling up was my guess is nowhere

18:25

for to get right

18:26

yeah there's not one of those mistakes that you're not

18:28

going to realize

18:30

pretty quickly oh yeah

18:32

in the position of the body in

18:34

the gibney was said to

18:37

have been very unusual the knees

18:39

were above the head it was

18:42

reported that the legs were

18:44

just lots from the bar

18:46

one hand was raised

18:48

to the saints the man in the chimney

18:51

was only wearing a thermal sir they

18:53

had no shoes socks your pants

18:55

on sources are not specific

18:58

on is the man was

19:01

wearing underwear

19:03

or not

19:04

these on the condition of the remains

19:06

it was pretty easy for the authorities

19:09

to determine that the man had been dead

19:11

for at least several years on september

19:13

twenty eighth two thousand and fifteen warner

19:16

our born of the teller county coroner's

19:18

office announced that the remains

19:21

were identified as joshua

19:23

vernon matt the coroner's

19:25

office use dental records gender

19:28

analysis any prior injury

19:30

to identify josh the

19:33

tip of josh is right index finger

19:35

had been amputated after

19:38

he had an accent with a fighter

19:40

the took like six weeks to figure this

19:42

out that originally they got there

19:45

then it sound like they had enough to go on

19:48

it's just probably comes down to work

19:50

load and how long does it take to

19:52

to get all this stuff done

19:54

the josh was found just a quarter

19:56

mile from his family's

19:58

house the timber twenty eight

20:00

the corner declared josh is there's

20:03

accident how born stated

20:05

that josh his position inside

20:07

the gym appeared to

20:10

have been a voluntary act in

20:12

order to gain access to the cab

20:14

there was a wood burning answered

20:17

in the fireplace that made it impossible

20:19

to get all the way through the chimney into

20:22

the cabin it was taunted josh

20:24

most likely got stuck

20:26

and died inside the gym

20:28

there is a josh

20:30

the top of the roof

20:31

the mouth

20:32

started climbing down the chimney like santa

20:35

claus the just

20:36

go any further but couldn't go

20:38

back up either

20:40

and what he said

20:42

the euro

20:43

the also told the denver post

20:45

that there were no signs of foul play

20:47

born say that the hard tissue showed

20:50

no signs of any trauma

20:52

there were no broken bones there

20:54

were no nice marks no bullet holes

20:57

the said there is so far

20:59

no answers to a number of things

21:01

it's very confused it was

21:03

not

21:04

in instant

21:06

how he died is only a matter of speculation

21:09

that we know

21:11

the didn't starve to death because that

21:13

takes many weeks that any

21:15

go down the chain you got dehydration

21:18

which can take just a few days and

21:21

then the other thing would be hypothermia

21:23

which

21:24

could occur in a day or two

21:27

warren said we have no evidence

21:29

to say which one came from

21:31

that he did say that the most likely

21:34

cause of death was hypothermia

21:36

that the time jobs when missing

21:39

the low temperatures were all the way down

21:41

in the twenty the girls of how he died

21:44

think about how scary the

21:46

had feel crap if is

21:48

what the coroner says

21:50

happen

21:51

how scary that be

21:53

that you're trapped that confined

21:56

space that able to move

21:58

that am not able to

21:59

it out

22:01

knowing that the matter time

22:04

the gonna die

22:05

why made it very clear my

22:07

fear of confined spaces

22:09

yeah the real it's

22:11

debilitating and

22:14

that's not a joke in any way that

22:16

would be tough for me

22:18

the

22:19

that here

22:21

i'd sell

22:22

what's your point the be in

22:24

a position where

22:26

you know you can't go down

22:29

you can't go up

22:31

there is no food or water that's just

22:33

going to magically

22:35

appear that a certain point

22:37

the panic sets them because like you said

22:40

you know you're going dot yeah the

22:43

you and with the caviar if

22:45

it happened the way that the corner

22:48

speculates or believes that

22:50

it

22:51

with the temperatures in the twenties

22:53

you know as coal to this on no expert

22:56

but i have my sumption is hypothermia

22:59

would said in fairly quickly

23:01

the wasn't like he was wearing even

23:04

a jacket

23:05

the

23:06

yeah mean a thermal shirts is not going to do the

23:08

job

23:09

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26:49

c a t t how born

26:51

mood the death accidental by

26:53

an unknown cause he believes

26:56

joshua climbed into the chimney

26:58

and got stocks josh was about

27:00

six feet tall and hundred and fifty pounds though

27:03

you know as we've kind of laid it out he

27:05

may have died from exposure

27:08

the hydration or

27:10

starvation

27:11

they don't

27:12

it had been seven long years but now

27:15

it up when josh his family

27:18

why we knew where he was

27:20

the door

27:21

the had to figure out how to

27:23

answer the question of what happened

27:26

to him and one the woodland park police

27:28

were working the case when josh was

27:30

a missing person it was transferred

27:33

to the coroner's office after he

27:35

was fun according to the strange

27:37

outdoors tape matic said

27:39

the situation doesn't make any sense at all

27:42

we were really expecting him to be anywhere

27:44

else in the world the he was actually

27:47

very close the only thing we can figure

27:49

is he was being an eighteen year old kid checking

27:51

out a cabin had

27:54

been abandoned for a long time the

27:56

had a horrible accident

27:59

the family or i be so upset that

28:02

he was so close

28:03

then we didn't even realize

28:05

the are you die as against

28:07

obviously

28:08

europe sad that he's dead

28:10

that the your point there

28:13

has to be

28:14

something that nausea

28:16

the again

28:18

we didn't know where he was we're searching

28:20

all over the place

28:22

the now we find out that he was

28:24

not far away at all

28:26

there's no way that they could have known

28:28

he was inside that chimney by

28:30

you think my dad don't start

28:32

i can knowing feeling i

28:35

think that that a lot of people have

28:37

all if i sit have only done this

28:39

or why don't we checked and cab

28:42

now reasonable the

28:44

top my guys going to enter people's

28:46

money

28:48

many woodland park residents clearly

28:50

remember when joshua went

28:52

missing after his remains were

28:54

found rumors when while

28:56

the josh was murdered and put

28:59

into the chimney the the

29:01

position of josh his body and

29:04

his lack of quote

29:05

they'd people hesitant to believe his death

29:08

was an axe

29:09

we're dimension he was only wearing

29:11

a thermal sure what we

29:13

haven't said is that arrested his

29:16

quotes were neatly stacked

29:18

inside the cabin near the

29:20

fireplaces hard foods

29:22

were also found by the fire

29:25

that's strange right if he was trying

29:27

to break into the cabin

29:30

how did close it inside the

29:32

cabin

29:33

it can applies in the face a little bit of what

29:35

the the corner speculators

29:38

if he was trying to break into the cabin

29:40

what was stopped at the bottom and in

29:43

couldn't make it in

29:45

what's your point how does close getting

29:47

it doesn't matter

29:48

the seem to the cabins owner

29:51

came forward to give his opinion on

29:53

the case after corner borns

29:55

announced chuck murphy is the

29:57

builder from colorado springs who

29:59

own be abandoned cabin

30:02

murphy was the president of murphy

30:04

constructors we talked about it earlier

30:06

the cabin was being demolished three

30:09

new housing development in the city

30:11

the wilderness development consisted

30:14

of thirty two single family was for

30:16

sale the cabin sat

30:18

on one of those lot according

30:21

to the gazette murphy's

30:23

parents purchase the cabin on rampart

30:26

range road in the nineteenth sister

30:28

the cabin was the homestead of the thunder

30:30

head ranked where according

30:32

to the gives their the legal gambling

30:34

and wild times once ran

30:37

rampant the cabin was used by

30:39

visitors of thunder head ran for

30:41

damn the denver post reported

30:44

in nineteen sixty that illegal casinos

30:47

more running full blast in

30:49

woodland park under head ranch

30:51

was an infamous dining drinking

30:54

and gambling complex

30:56

owned by big bird bugs

30:59

in the nineteen thirties

31:01

ortiz and fifty

31:02

from stream emigrated to the us from

31:05

sweden and nineteen two started

31:07

the thunder head in as an eating

31:09

and drinking establishment after

31:12

prohibitions use the ran

31:14

for illegal gambling and sex

31:17

the f b i arrested bergstrom but

31:19

a jury found him not guilty

31:21

that's kind of some it very interesting backstory

31:24

yeah some some some history

31:26

there the m lane drinking

31:29

that's worth the

31:31

login and nineteen cities bunny

31:33

ranch as exactly what it sounds

31:35

like

31:36

rock murphy his brother lived in the cabin

31:38

for thirty years until the early

31:40

two thousand it was then used

31:43

as a rental cabin for awhile

31:45

before the family abandoned the

31:47

used for storage and no

31:49

one except in occasional

31:51

burglar animal ever

31:54

the internet murphy told the colorado

31:57

springs gazette

31:58

occasionally we'd go

31:59

there to check on it there were

32:02

mice chipmunks and raccoons

32:04

it smell bad

32:06

oh

32:06

the animals and the

32:08

animal feces a parody smell bad that

32:12

had a body and the chimney it probably smell

32:14

bad for another reason

32:15

no mercy hadn't decided

32:17

to sell his way for this developments

32:20

it could have been many more years before

32:22

josh was found the cabin

32:25

was just about two blocks or quarter

32:27

mile from josh his family

32:29

hope his family had never

32:31

thought to check the abandoned cab

32:33

and because there were no signs

32:36

that any one was living there zoc

32:38

murphy rarely went to the cabin

32:40

the even if the family had gone unchecked

32:42

the cabin the would have seen anything

32:45

besides maybe they would identify this

32:47

close by

32:49

fireplace hard

32:50

maybe they've been able to just picked inside

32:52

the windows and said yep it's a band and

32:54

we don't see anything and left to that that

32:56

murphy said the when they did go to check

32:59

on it they never noticed anything

33:01

suspicious the dogs him on

33:03

about to the bad smell the again

33:06

it or was that animals like you said

33:08

ccs

33:10

three

33:10

then tell the denver post

33:13

that he noticed or run smell whenever

33:15

he entered the cab and he just couldn't

33:17

identify what a what that

33:20

the place was there it smelled like

33:22

hell there was raccoon to

33:25

ball over the place murphy said

33:27

he never had a reason to check the fireplace

33:29

because the furniture was blocking

33:32

and i think i'm getting a sense of why

33:34

you know maybe only checked on the cabin

33:36

periodically a the

33:38

smells you really that bad how

33:41

often do you really want to go the often

33:44

the cabin was located in the middle

33:46

of a large plot of land about

33:48

fifty feet from the road it

33:50

was surrounded by tall trees the

33:52

since there were no other houses nearby

33:55

it's likely no one would have her

33:58

josh calling out for help murphy

34:01

was present when they sound josh

34:03

is roman he said that an earth

34:05

mover pulled back to still fireplace

34:07

censor inside the chimneys

34:09

and that's when they sound the bar that

34:11

according to the denver post murphy

34:13

did not believe the corners determination

34:17

because of the reebok installed

34:19

on top of the chimney to

34:22

prevent animals from getting inside that

34:25

there's no way that guy crowd

34:27

inside and chimney with that

34:29

steel web he did not

34:31

come down the gym murphy

34:33

stated that he was wrong to think

34:35

the josh took off his clothes the

34:38

got inside the chimney because the

34:40

most likely knew he would get stuff in

34:42

for me

34:44

maybe it's this

34:45

you stack have club

34:48

or a neatly folded that

34:51

i'm struggling with the most

34:53

number one how did they get in there

34:55

unless he was able to access

34:57

the cabin in is he was able to access

35:00

the cabin

35:01

why would he need to be in the chimney

35:03

at all if you're thinking about

35:05

trying to climb down the chimney this

35:07

is myself the me the last

35:10

thing you would wanna do is take off your clothes

35:12

there's not like you're trying to shimmy down

35:15

memory foam right

35:17

me were talking about brick

35:19

in in dragon things

35:22

that are going to possibly

35:24

be touching some very important

35:27

parts of the body very important some

35:30

sensitive some me wanna you

35:33

try to watch out for for sir

35:35

it's a i'm just not

35:37

getting it it's not clicking

35:39

my my

35:41

the places abandoned you

35:43

could assume that me maybe he knew that it was

35:45

abandoned

35:46

really not have maybe at least peaked

35:49

in the window right

35:50

i would think somebody could pretty

35:53

easily tell from the outside yeah

35:55

and if he's been living up there all that time maybe

35:57

he knew

35:58

there's been abandoned for awhile why

36:00

go to the chimney one i find a different

36:02

route to get in

36:04

in like you said wire the close neatly

36:06

stacked on the inside yes

36:08

that that's the part that for me

36:11

i'm having trouble coming to

36:14

grips with the oh let me take my clothes

36:17

off now let me go back outside

36:19

there's want to see if i can go down the chimney

36:21

come in as will see me try

36:23

that out for unite you and i talk about

36:26

his all time what makes sense and what

36:28

doesn't make sense was plausible

36:30

was not plausible the napkin

36:32

where i'm out with that the heart of

36:34

it murphy stated that the chimney

36:37

was about twenty years old during

36:39

construction they put wire

36:41

mesh over the top to keep animals

36:44

from getting yes he told the pikes peak

36:46

career it was a heavy wire

36:48

right the wire mesh i

36:50

installed it across the chimney about

36:53

one road breaks from the top

36:56

the didn't want trouble with raccoons

36:58

and things into the journey

36:59

according to the pikes peak career how

37:02

born argue that the wire grade

37:04

may have been rusted or for him and

37:06

said nobody saw the metal

37:09

mesh we didn't see it in any

37:11

of our photos

37:12

it may have disappeared

37:14

murphy then responded that during the demolition

37:16

process they collected

37:18

the medal

37:19

which is why it wasn't near the chimney

37:22

war in the photos after time

37:24

murphy has stated that he believes

37:26

the josh was forced into the chimney

37:29

from the and saw

37:31

that sounds more plausible a

37:35

jimmy has a wire cap on it

37:37

not gonna go through that way in like murphy

37:39

said

37:40

the metal was outside

37:43

the ground when they did the demo they know

37:45

they have the metal matt

37:47

that's why the corner

37:49

they didn't see it in any of the photos

37:52

but again on it and is don't think the

37:54

guy would take his clothes off go back outside

37:56

in try to go through the top and the chimney doesn't

37:59

make any sense

37:59

the

38:00

josh his family and corner born

38:03

responded to mercy statements on

38:05

october first corner our born

38:07

reopen the investigation after

38:10

chuck murphy came forward with

38:12

his information after murphy

38:14

came forward kids came in

38:17

about individuals may

38:19

have bragged about killing joke

38:22

now this case is taking it

38:24

we are murphy's information

38:26

which seems kind of contradict

38:29

a lot of what the coroner his theorize

38:32

we have people talking about individuals

38:35

bragging about killing just there

38:37

were several reason for

38:39

out born

38:41

reopening the investigation

38:43

the wire mesh on top of the chimney

38:45

that cause them down about

38:48

his theory the josh climbed in from the

38:50

tops a large wooden breakfast

38:52

bar was torn out of the wall then

38:55

dragged over to block the chimney from

38:57

inside the camp

38:58

apparently no one knew who did this

39:00

or why

39:02

and we said josh was found in a fetal

39:04

position these above his head

39:07

this jointed from his torso

39:10

born in made a previous comment

39:12

that he believed it would

39:14

have taken to people

39:16

the you josh into such a position

39:19

the down by get some point he contradicted

39:21

himself or contradicted his

39:24

initial fear

39:25

yeah

39:26

i'm out

39:27

don't like he feels like to people had

39:29

a be on site to get

39:31

josh into the chimney the

39:33

maybe those two individuals

39:35

rep the cabinet off the wall put

39:38

it up but you know break it up against the

39:40

the fireplace

39:41

the that if he they find a way to wiggle

39:44

down and now and wouldn't be able to get out the fire

39:46

place

39:47

the be draft draft yes that

39:49

here again i struggle

39:52

we don't i don't know the timing of everything

39:55

the timing of the theory vs this

39:57

comment that he made but their death

40:00

the at odds with each

40:01

if he believes that it took two people to

40:03

get josh in the position

40:05

in which he was found

40:07

then to me that's in direct conflict

40:10

with his theory that joss climb down

40:12

and got stuff in another concerning

40:14

question was why josh his clothing

40:17

had been removed according to the strange

40:19

outdoors one com

40:22

about to close he said this

40:24

one really tax or brings we found

40:26

his clothing just outside the fire box

40:28

the only had on a thermal sir

40:30

we don't know why he took his clothes off

40:33

okay shoes and socks off and

40:35

why he went outside climbed on

40:37

the roof and went down the chimney it

40:39

was not linear think then

40:41

i would agree it's not linear

40:43

thinking which to me is why it doesn't

40:46

make sense

40:47

yeah just doesn't add up

40:49

so how are you coming to that conclusion

40:52

when the kind of all the factors

40:54

don't seem to support is

40:57

it because you don't have any evidence

40:59

of other people being on

41:01

c and so new your kind

41:03

of defaulting to

41:05

we don't know the body else was there so

41:08

he must have climbed down himself

41:10

the only way i can saying something

41:13

like that occurred as if it

41:15

was there was some buddies maybe they

41:18

they're him

41:19

i bet you can't go on top the roof

41:21

come down that jimmy and come out come out

41:23

on the other side any to tibet

41:26

in what nina when up there for some

41:28

reason wow this close maybe that was part

41:30

of that in a push the

41:32

breakfast bar so it couldn't get out

41:35

and he got stuck

41:36

i could see where that that happen

41:39

then you would have to believe

41:41

that these

41:43

friends quote unquote friends

41:46

this is i believe him there right

41:48

knowing he was stuck they

41:50

never came forward later to say

41:52

oh we're playing around and

41:54

he does on october second

41:56

after a two hour meeting how born

41:58

in shock mercy ended different opinions

42:01

on what happened to josh murphy

42:03

believes he was more perhaps forced

42:06

into the chimney while he was so lives

42:08

or killed inside the cabin and then

42:10

forced into the chimney according

42:12

to the pikes peak career born

42:14

said we've come up with the most plausible

42:17

explanation

42:18

then it will remain an axe he

42:21

did come down the chimney

42:23

that's our conclusion we look

42:25

at photos and we talked to check murphy

42:28

about his memory of the chimneys construction

42:30

and we took everything into consideration

42:33

then we still have no evidence of a homicide

42:36

the furniture in front of the fireplace we

42:38

can't answer that question it would

42:40

have trapped him in the fire box

42:43

but there's no evidence he was ever

42:45

in the fire box or went up the gym

42:48

the i get everything that the d's

42:50

individuals or said you're born

42:52

is saying we have no evidence of homicide

42:55

i get that what to say

42:57

that the most plausible

43:00

the explanation then he

43:03

climbed down the chimney

43:06

almost naked

43:07

in somehow his clothes were

43:09

neatly folded up inside that

43:11

rings hollow to me i don't think that's

43:13

the most likely explanation i

43:15

think it's the one that fits

43:18

the we don't have evidence of anything

43:20

else you know when you're

43:23

theorizing the me

43:25

that

43:26

there's not the most flaws

43:28

no

43:28

if you're going to terrorize like that i would

43:31

their eyes say maybe

43:33

he was at the cabin with a female friends and

43:36

maybe that female friend had a significant

43:39

other

43:40

the found out

43:41

though it up yeah maybe

43:43

josh

43:44

those to hide in the fire box

43:47

that

43:47

person realize he was in their pushed

43:50

up the the furniture

43:52

and laugh and he couldn't get out the fire box

43:54

all he could do is try to bramble up

43:56

the chimney thinking could get out that way and realize

43:59

he could

43:59

i don't see how that's any less plausible

44:02

hey you know you don't have evidence of either

44:05

one row

44:06

the you can

44:07

essentially come up with whatever theory

44:09

was because you have no evidence

44:12

of any the autopsy found

44:14

no evidence of drugs and justice

44:16

system the testing was difficult

44:18

to complete because of how

44:21

old

44:22

his remains were

44:23

the ashes family said he didn't use

44:26

the warned stated that in order to consider

44:29

josh his death from they would have

44:31

to see evidence the josh was

44:33

somehow were strained or evidence

44:35

of another person or to see such

44:37

as footprints in that i get

44:40

i understand all of that sir

44:42

but how are you going to

44:44

what bread seven years later

44:46

the after the places been demolished yeah

44:48

with all that traffic

44:50

they're all those years not going to get that know

44:52

i our would think any evidence

44:55

that really would have been there

44:57

sort of blood or something

44:59

like that when you had a bowl those

45:02

the place over you're destroying

45:05

anything that would have been there i

45:07

there we we talked about this earlier but

45:09

any certainty hibs started

45:11

coming in this individuals

45:14

had bragged about killing

45:16

josh man though you

45:19

know based on that information police try

45:21

to develop some sauce

45:23

bags the couldn't positively

45:25

determine if one suspect the

45:28

women part when josh went missing

45:31

another sauce bag was said to have

45:33

been too small who have poor

45:35

josh his body and the chimney alone

45:38

according to the pikes peak career warren

45:41

stated

45:42

there's a lot of your say that

45:44

this person was the last one to see

45:46

him and that kind of thing they

45:49

can give me times and specific

45:51

we can't generate stopped the goes

45:54

back seven years the series

45:56

could only make sense if it was

45:58

multiple men and bolt

46:00

warren ended with i know it's not

46:02

a natural death and i'm confident

46:05

it's not suicide my

46:07

other options are an accidental

46:09

death homicide an

46:11

undetermined cause of death there's

46:14

a couple of things a jump out at me you know

46:16

i'm i'm still keep going back to this

46:18

born guy and i get a lot

46:20

of what he said it doesn't have

46:23

enough information

46:25

who me the conclusive

46:28

cause of death to terminate right i

46:30

understand sir the one part

46:32

i don't understand the that

46:35

the said these theories could only make sense

46:37

is it was multiple men and ball how

46:40

could it not be possible

46:42

more than one person

46:44

was in ball i get it someone

46:47

is calling in a tip about one person

46:49

that doesn't mean they couldn't have been with somebody

46:52

else could a friend along

46:54

the body long whatever rights guess i'm

46:56

kind of struggling without a little bit

46:59

the police did receive anonymous tips

47:01

about other possible suspects

47:03

when josh went missing and

47:05

when his remains were found one

47:07

suspect was incarcerated

47:10

in taxes as of two thousand twenty

47:12

one there had been imprisoned

47:14

for violent crimes in seattle washington

47:17

and portland oregon this man

47:19

reportedly was seen with jobs

47:22

the about individual

47:23

yeah i mean he committed violent crimes

47:25

if he went to prison for them in

47:28

two thousand and fifteen the reddit

47:30

user posted on reddit and

47:32

identified disaster the

47:34

user said they went to high school

47:36

with a guy named andy who

47:38

played guitar in a ban they weren't

47:40

friends the after graduation

47:43

his friend josh started hanging out

47:45

with and and went missing

47:47

sooner the and he moved

47:49

to new mexico in may of two thousand

47:51

nine he met a caretaker of

47:54

a disabled person who invited

47:56

him to their part

47:58

the caretaker left the room take

48:00

a shower

48:01

when you're out of the shower he found that his client

48:03

had been stabbed to death and he and he was gone

48:06

and he was eventually arrested he claimed

48:08

that he killed a woman and tax

48:10

and put her body and a bear

48:12

and a woman's body was found in a

48:14

barrel there but somebody had

48:16

already been arrested for this crime

48:18

so the police shows not to pursue

48:20

charges against him in this case

48:23

the caretaker later died in a bar

48:25

for though without him as a witness

48:28

the police didn't have much evidence

48:30

against sandy so they dropped the charts

48:32

some people went to police and told them

48:35

the josh was last seen with

48:37

this and

48:38

before he went missing

48:40

according to this reddit post people

48:42

called and tips about andy saying

48:45

the put gas in a whole the reddit

48:47

user wrote despite a fair amount of

48:49

pestering nothing ever really

48:51

tame of by nothing i mean

48:54

that the police mostly didn't even return

48:56

false once accidentally

48:59

cancelled the bolt on jobs

49:01

because he's alive and well

49:03

and living in the next town of this

49:06

reddit users got a lot of information

49:08

sir does and obviously

49:12

depending on the veracity of the information

49:15

it sure doesn't make this a guy look good

49:18

know the user linkedin article

49:20

identifying andy as

49:22

andrew are noom the under

49:25

a new men was reportedly in texas

49:27

town in june two thousand

49:29

nine this article talked

49:31

about him walking around to different

49:34

zeus and homes asking for

49:36

food and water one person

49:38

reported that he came home and found

49:40

newman in the house with his teenage

49:43

children that said that he

49:45

was acting strange currently dismantled

49:48

andrew that he would drive him

49:50

to a different county but he drove him to the sheriff's

49:53

please ran his fingerprints

49:55

which identified

49:56

the under his fingerprints were left behind

49:59

the stabbing

49:59

crime

50:01

in may of two thousand

50:03

his fingerprints were also left behind

50:05

at a burglary crime scene in

50:07

seattle

50:08

the you said okay not a good guy the

50:11

that part has been proven

50:13

in march two thousand nineteen the

50:16

brazos county detention also

50:18

was head butted in the i buy and inmates

50:21

as they sell to the for n

50:23

me was thirty year old andrew richard

50:25

knew he had been in jail since december

50:28

first two thousand eighteen on

50:30

a burglary warrant from for he

50:32

was arrested in texas after assaulting

50:34

three officer as

50:37

the the time of the recording of this episode

50:39

andrew richard newman has not

50:41

been charged nor has he been

50:44

declared a suspect in relation to

50:46

the death of joshua maddox josh

50:48

is t sadness is not changed since

50:50

two thousand city it is that

50:53

is still considered an accent i

50:55

go back to the corner you know he lifted

50:58

off some of the options that he had

51:00

to me

51:01

the accident doesn't seem right what

51:04

about cause of death undetermined

51:08

you don't have evidence to say one way or the

51:10

other

51:11

that seems to me maybe to be a

51:13

better route to go it

51:15

seems to fit

51:17

what we know so far

51:18

the i think it does jack murphy

51:20

told the pikes peak career it's a real

51:22

conundrum a tragic terrible

51:25

story all i know is he

51:27

did not go down there too don't

51:29

believe that he got in the fireplace and

51:31

when what he had no idea what and

51:33

sad that it will remain a

51:35

mystery one of those sad

51:37

story

51:38

maddox was quoted in the

51:41

liberia news this is certainly

51:43

not the outcome the maddox family

51:45

and my brother josh as many

51:47

friends and loved ones were hoping for

51:50

given the strange circumstances

51:52

it may be a miracle the josh

51:54

has finally been found gibbs years

51:57

we wrap up this case

51:58

it's considered close because

52:00

of the

52:01

the ruling that his death was enacted

52:04

you got you know investigators

52:06

josh his family and the public

52:09

who are left with more questions than

52:11

answers that's another reason why

52:14

maybe

52:15

my thinking of cause

52:17

of death undetermined

52:19

that allow for the case too

52:22

of remain open is the right word

52:25

maybe for for some mighty keep working

52:27

on it maybe

52:29

no one seems to know for sure who would

52:31

want to her joshua or why

52:33

that right his family had no reason to believe

52:36

he was involved with drugs or any

52:38

other type of illegal activity them

52:40

for my understanding the please don't either

52:43

they haven't found any evidence of anything

52:45

like that when

52:47

you're asking

52:48

this

52:49

for me

52:51

question number one is

52:53

is it possible the josh his death

52:55

was truly an axe they

52:57

could hear somehow remove the wire

53:00

mesh are gone into

53:02

the chimney from the bottom up

53:04

the

53:05

most people this

53:07

based on the position of his body the

53:09

eating seem unlikely

53:11

like you and i always say i don't do you can take

53:14

anything off the table

53:15

then we conclusively say that a wasn't

53:17

an accident so

53:20

my crazy about the official ruling

53:22

though being an accident because

53:24

i don't know what the factors

53:27

or that would lead someone

53:29

to believe more so

53:32

than not this was an accent

53:34

yeah

53:35

the not seen

53:37

the i'm with ya know i'm just having a hard time

53:39

trying to figure out why his clothes were

53:41

hold it neatly the seems

53:44

really strange for that

53:46

back to take the time for somebody close but

53:49

again and so many other parker

53:51

episodes we've done killer the

53:53

folder individual close so

53:56

a kid could happen see i get you a

53:58

would also be strange for him to

54:00

fold his clothes neatly if

54:03

he was in a

54:04

life or death pressure situation

54:06

yeah i mean i don't even do it at home

54:09

when i have no pressure on me whatsoever

54:12

at his dinner drums here there's

54:14

really voter clean clothes no

54:17

no no i just roam in a drawer somewhere

54:19

that's why it's like when people see me on the videos

54:22

and pager on my shirts always

54:24

right home because mr winkle now mr

54:26

winkle

54:27

the you know one of the things we knew

54:29

that when we got to the end of this

54:31

episode there were going to be tons

54:33

of questions sure that we're not

54:36

only hard to answer but almost unanswerable

54:39

with the information avail

54:41

do you have to look at the theory that

54:43

someone killed jaws and put

54:45

his body in the gym the

54:48

me there's no way that you can't keep

54:50

that option on the tape

54:51

the i agree with you

54:52

how it happened who's involved

54:56

i don't know when i will

54:58

say

54:59

the

55:00

based on some of the stuff how

55:02

about andrew new then again

55:04

a lot of it was from a reddit user

55:07

that reddit users post

55:09

then almost every article

55:11

that we looked at yeah it was used

55:13

by the number of

55:15

outlets so up because some

55:18

of it is been proven true yeah

55:20

which is why believe they they use dead

55:23

i don't think there's any doubt the guy was

55:26

the bad guy mean i don't know be

55:28

so in prison i know he's in prison as

55:30

of two thousand twenty one the

55:32

some of the things that people said are true

55:35

he was seen with yeah yeah

55:37

they before you went missing obviously

55:40

he went on to do some pretty

55:42

horrific thing sir

55:44

some we know

55:46

he was held accountable

55:48

for

55:48

the could he men involved

55:51

they don't know but maybe maybe

55:53

the i go back to l born the corner saying

55:56

it most likely would have taken more than one

55:58

person to do this which

56:00

i've been given the circumstances that's

56:03

probably true

56:04

what what does that mean

56:06

the mean at one person couldn't have done

56:08

it know it also doesn't mean that

56:10

any of these individuals that have been looked

56:12

at his suspect wouldn't

56:14

have had somebody else with them as center you

56:17

know at that point in time

56:19

i don't no what

56:21

information is going to come out about

56:23

this case in the future the

56:25

will we ever know

56:27

exactly what happened to joshua

56:29

maddox the dow for

56:32

in last

56:33

the money comes forward

56:34

the either the new information

56:37

for collaborate some

56:39

of the information that's floating out

56:42

there yeah

56:43

it's gonna take something like that the

56:46

to me this is a very puzzling

56:49

he's very mysterious because

56:52

of your the way was found

56:54

in and some of the things that have come out about

56:57

potential suspects or potential persons

56:59

of interest i just don't think it's an accident

57:01

personally i don't either i don't either

57:04

and my you so we can conclusively

57:06

say that it's not

57:08

what i'm finding it hard to understand how

57:10

the corner can conclusively say

57:12

that it is rose that's that's been one

57:14

of my biggest struggle but that said for our

57:16

case on the death of joshua maddox

57:19

voicemail you and sectors out they want to hear those

57:22

i just wanted to tell you

57:24

something

57:27

a good

57:29

remind me

57:31

my brother my

57:34

brother

57:36

i don't know

57:39

many of the name is as lazy

57:41

that near know as

57:44

certain see that movies

57:47

and he knows see names

57:49

of well he knew he

57:51

that way now

57:52

that i the

57:56

probably

57:57

removing that whatever

58:01

our just year

58:02

oh shit that fly

58:05

somehow he lives out

58:08

and he would say are you

58:12

right

58:14

every time i just read every time

58:17

hey how

58:19

obama

58:21

the

58:22

right

58:24

the way

58:25

while and thinks about here

58:28

every time that happened

58:30

really

58:31

now i live for

58:34

about believe me

58:35

the

58:36

that's right i feel

58:38

as

58:39

thanks vivid memories

58:43

that that's really cool you

58:45

know it's amazing to me

58:47

how

58:48

the

58:49

something so hannah obscure

58:52

like that banter you and i

58:54

have about

58:55

a movie or you not remembering

58:58

and me trying to guess it

58:59

leave some my the back to

59:01

a really good memory with her family

59:04

members on my desk and i just think

59:06

it's awesome i really do a

59:08

d katniss was tabbed browsing

59:10

calling from the windows key for my once

59:12

again i was just listening

59:14

to them be anxious six episode

59:17

and episode heard thirty talking about

59:19

his wife dreams of him

59:21

cheating on her and it reminded me yeah

59:24

i went to see jerry seinfeld as

59:26

a beacon theater or in

59:28

new york a couple years ago and one of

59:30

his one of the best jokes was in

59:32

talking about his wife screening

59:34

of the same sort of things and

59:36

as he said she would say to win

59:39

oh i dreamt all about his last night

59:41

so don't you dare try to deny toss

59:44

ups third year in good company you

59:46

and jerry ah alright as for

59:48

the share that with you ah stay

59:50

safe to drawn time drawn second you

59:52

guys

59:53

that's very similar to what my wife does

59:55

now i wish i was in

59:57

juries company as

59:59

for to his bank account oh

1:00:01

yeah you know how i get into my

1:00:04

searching through those

1:00:06

click bait slideshow say

1:00:09

there was one about how much actors

1:00:12

make on just d syndicated

1:00:14

reruns right he is like to friends

1:00:16

people make like twenty million a year jerry

1:00:19

seinfeld it said at this is truth

1:00:21

makes a hundred and sixteen million dollars

1:00:24

a year

1:00:25

just stop the reruns of

1:00:26

so i believe any he bought the rights

1:00:29

to the shower so yeah maybe i sort of them and larry

1:00:31

david heyman larry david i mean seat the

1:00:33

guys worth i think like a billion dollars

1:00:35

satellite to be in that neighborhoods

1:00:38

i don't think don't think will right

1:00:40

now i'm in the low rent district or like to

1:00:42

be in the the jerry seinfeld neighborhood

1:00:45

a so have coffee with

1:00:46

the cars yeah me too they

1:00:49

that before

1:00:50

hey my finger the manning is melanie

1:00:52

and i'm from since i t i'm actually

1:00:55

i'm going between years and podcast

1:00:57

am listening to them every

1:00:59

other episodes on every other podcasts

1:01:02

around l a monster from all the time

1:01:04

on average thirty seven he and

1:01:07

give he had said die he

1:01:09

wanted to do this ideal

1:01:11

a theme that a fun facts brain is

1:01:13

that sometimes the guillotine would get stuck

1:01:16

halfway through the phone

1:01:18

and that emanate and i would actually how to pull

1:01:20

a back up and go back down and

1:01:22

to finish this off so i don't know

1:01:24

about be the best way to go there allergies

1:01:27

as he rather amazing all other things

1:01:29

your podcast an entire

1:01:31

he got it is

1:01:33

why would want the

1:01:34

that is also one of my gay sharpen

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this the one for from sharper image

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yeah get that guilty exactly i

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don't know why you would take guilty you have a knack

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like one hundred year old

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redwood tree

1:01:47

the her family that doesn't seem like

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a good idea i have like a loss ronnie next

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get like a big pallbearers there

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you need to rethink that man and

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that we appreciate colony

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everybody that's it

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the go off on the paul bunyan don't and years

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that's it for another app soda true crime all

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does that does that of day five hundred

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