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1:02

Two sisters. One,

1:05

a respected TV producer, Jill

1:07

Blackstone, and the other, Wendy. She

1:09

was disabled, nearly blind and deaf,

1:11

and Jill had devoted herself to taking care of Wendy.

1:14

Jill was her best friend, her sister,

1:17

her everything. But the sister bond

1:19

was shattered when Wendy and some

1:21

of the sisters' rescue dogs were found

1:23

dead in a garage next to

1:26

a Toplover barbecue grill. Jill

1:28

says accidental carbon monoxide poisoning

1:30

killed everyone. Police do not believe her.

1:32

Police arrested Jill Blackstone

1:35

for the murder of her sister. Investigators think

1:37

it was staged to look like an accident.

1:39

Who will you believe, especially now

1:41

that a secret source has come forward with

1:43

evidence never made public before? Jill was a good

1:46

producer. There's no doubt about that.

1:48

But would she produce murder? Is the question.

1:50

Season 2 of Bad,

1:53

Bad Thing, The Blackstone Sisters, available

1:55

now wherever you get your podcasts. I

1:58

always say, show me a perfect family.

1:59

I'll show you a family with secrets.

2:38

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 334

2:41

of the true crime all the time unsolved podcast.

2:43

I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always

2:46

is my partner in true crime, Mike

2:48

Gibson. Give me, how are you man? I'm doing good. How about yourself?

2:50

I'm doing very well. Yeah. Having a great week.

2:53

That's good. Both my girls came home

2:55

this last weekend from college, got

2:58

to see them, hang out with them. It was nice. That's

3:00

cause they love you. Yeah, they do. And we love

3:02

them. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon

3:05

shout outs. We had Sarah Navarro. Hey

3:07

Sarah. Mama's 25. What's up 25.

3:10

Mary Ann Champagne. Oh, good champagne.

3:13

Matthew Simmons. What's up Simmons? Vicki

3:15

Briggs. Well, appreciate that Briggs. Madison

3:17

Monroe. Oh, Munro. Lily

3:20

Desiree Thomas. Well, I

3:22

appreciate that Desiree. Danielle

3:24

Francis. What's up Francis? Amber

3:26

Adcock. Hey Adcock. Donald Davis.

3:28

What's up Davis? Andrea Cremans

3:31

jumped out to highest level. Cremans.

3:33

Amber Sellers jumped out to highest level. Related

3:36

to Peter Sellers? I don't think so. Rachel

3:38

Young jumped out to highest level. Very

3:40

young. Thank you. Jenny Mayne. What's

3:43

going on Mayne? KM. Just

3:45

still trying to figure out what the KM stands

3:47

for. I think there's a lot of variations

3:50

that it could be. Yeah. And I don't think

3:52

you'll guess it. I could run it through my computer and might

3:54

spit it out. People, people, people. Uh,

3:58

no, no answer. And last but not least. least

4:00

Dinah. Well thank you Dinah. And then if we go back

4:02

into the vault this week

4:05

we selected Sam Gosling. Sam

4:07

I appreciate it. Yeah appreciate all the patreon

4:09

support. We had a couple of great PayPal

4:12

donations from David Rand. What's

4:14

up Rand? And Ashley Sheeler.

4:16

Sheelah. So thank

4:18

you as well. Gibbs

4:21

right now on True Crime All The Time. We have

4:23

part one of two on

4:26

the Lori Valo Daybell.

4:29

It's the case that a lot of people have been

4:31

asking us to cover. Pretty well-known

4:34

case and the case that people

4:36

are still following you know even

4:38

today. It's my blood boiling.

4:40

Yeah Lori is known as the doomsday

4:43

mom or the cult mom and

4:45

so if you haven't done so

4:47

yet check that out. Alright buddy are

4:49

you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All

4:52

The Time on Sol? I am ready. We're talking

4:54

about the 2018 disappearance

4:57

of 16 year old Carlee Guse.

5:00

On the evening of October 12 2018 Carlee

5:04

Guse called her stepmom and

5:06

asked for a ride home. She admitted

5:08

that she had gone to a party and smoked

5:11

marijuana. Carlee had an adverse

5:13

reaction to the marijuana and

5:16

was paranoid and anxious all night.

5:18

She left home in the early morning hours

5:20

while her family slept and was

5:23

last seen by the highway near her house.

5:26

Carlee has not been seen since.

5:28

And I tell you Gibbs you know this is one thing that

5:31

I've talked to my daughters about for

5:33

years and years and years. I don't

5:35

want you to go out drinking.

5:38

I don't want you to do drugs but

5:40

if for

5:41

whatever reason you get in a situation

5:43

where you're impaired. Please

5:45

call me. I will be

5:48

understanding and I will come pick you

5:50

up. The last thing I want you

5:52

to do is hop in a car

5:55

because you're afraid to tell

5:57

me you smoked some weed. Right.

5:59

Or you did. You know, you had

6:01

a couple of drinks or whatever it is. Now,

6:04

as to the marijuana making

6:06

her paranoid and anxious,

6:09

I don't have a lot of firsthand knowledge,

6:11

you know what I'm saying? But I've seen some people

6:14

who have

6:17

had that type of reaction

6:19

to marijuana. Carly

6:21

Lane Guse, was born on May

6:24

13th, 2002. She

6:26

was 16 years old when

6:28

she went missing. Carly's parents

6:31

are Zachary Guse and Lindsay

6:33

Fairley. They divorced when Carly

6:36

was two years old. In 2009,

6:38

Zachary married Melissa Guse.

6:41

They had two children together. Carly

6:43

and her older brother, Cain, lived

6:45

with Zach and Melissa and

6:48

their two children. The kids loved

6:50

Melissa and she was close with all

6:52

of them. Sources state that Carly's

6:54

mother, Lindsay, lives in

6:56

Nevada. So not anything

6:59

abnormal, right? Families, divorce,

7:02

remarry, you

7:03

might have

7:05

some new siblings. Pretty

7:07

normal anymore. Yeah. I mean, blended

7:10

family. You know, what I

7:12

did take from this is that

7:15

Carly and her older brother, Cain,

7:18

really loved Melissa

7:21

and that may not always happen

7:24

in the stepmom situation.

7:26

Yeah. They can go, you know,

7:28

a couple of different ways, but it sounded

7:31

like they really liked

7:33

her, loved her. And we've talked before

7:35

how hard it must be to

7:38

be a stepmom, a stepdad,

7:41

not the easiest thing in the world. No, but

7:43

if you love each other, you find a way. Yeah, no,

7:46

absolutely. Carly was described as someone

7:48

who wanted to live life to the fullest. She

7:51

was known for treating others with kindness.

7:53

Her best friend, Taylor McCormick told

7:55

People magazine investigates that Carly

7:58

loved making friends. Was a dedicated

8:01

student and had plans for her

8:03

future in two thousand eighteen

8:06

carly was a sophomore she attended

8:08

high school in the city of bishop california.

8:11

Bishop is a small town that's a common

8:13

stop for tourists traveling

8:15

to death valley and a ski resort

8:18

called mammoth legs. I've

8:20

heard about that resort i have

8:22

not and i actually never heard of bishop california.

8:26

I have not heard of bishop california either but i've

8:28

heard of both death valley and also.

8:31

Mammoth legs carly stepmother

8:34

melissa worked as an escrow assistant

8:36

at a title company carly

8:38

worked part time for the same company.

8:41

In august two thousand eighteen zach

8:43

and melissa bought their dream house

8:46

in the white mountain states area of

8:48

chalfont valley. Located

8:51

in mono county california just

8:53

like that name chalfont and i'm sure i'm

8:55

not saying it correctly yeah i

8:58

always get emails about my. Pronunciations

9:01

of cities in california probably

9:03

like chalfont hey it could

9:06

be chalfant it could

9:08

be all kinds of different things but i'm gonna

9:10

go with that yeah it's described

9:12

as a rural desert area ten

9:14

miles north of bishop. There's

9:16

not a lot there besides the

9:19

housing community and the terrain

9:21

is rough perfect place for my four by

9:23

four why no how much you love your

9:26

off road. Yes i

9:28

just hit that one button right this is

9:30

off road or turbo or

9:33

jet pack i don't know what button you have yeah

9:36

according to melissa carly was happy

9:38

at the beginning of october two thousand eighteen.

9:41

Was affected by the move because she

9:44

was in the same school district that's

9:46

always a nice move right when you want to change

9:49

schools well yeah i mean changing

9:52

houses is one thing you know

9:55

my oldest daughter cried

9:57

for like six months when.

9:59

we move. Yeah.

10:01

And we've lived in this house for like 20 years.

10:04

So she was very young. She just

10:06

kept saying, when are we going back to the old

10:08

house? It was a, it was a really

10:11

tough experience for her. But I

10:13

think for most people, yeah, is

10:15

it the easiest thing in the world? No. But

10:19

what's much tougher, you know,

10:21

for a sophomore in high school is

10:23

to switch high schools. Oh, for sure.

10:25

Yeah. And start all over

10:28

and leave your friends behind. That's

10:30

very tough. Carly had started

10:32

dating a junior named Donald

10:34

Errol Wood III. Her friend

10:36

Taylor told People Magazine that Carly

10:39

wasn't as close with her friends after

10:41

she started dating Donald. That

10:44

happens to a lot of kids. Yeah. I was going to

10:46

say, I think we've probably all been there

10:48

either, you know, ourselves, when we

10:50

started dating someone or

10:53

we had a friend who started dating someone

10:55

and it was just kind of like they fell

10:58

out of the friend group a little bit

11:00

because let's face it,

11:02

you know, young love, new love,

11:04

you want to spend as much time as possible

11:07

with that person, your experience and all that, all those

11:09

new feelings. At one point that

11:12

year, Carly was struggling in

11:14

school and got in trouble for coming

11:16

to class high. However, it seemed

11:18

like she was able to improve her grades

11:21

and she wasn't having any disciplinary

11:23

issues at school at the time of her disappearance.

11:26

October 12th, 2018 was a Friday at 6pm. Carly

11:32

called Melissa to ask if she could go

11:34

to a football game. She said she

11:36

would get a ride from her boyfriend and

11:38

Melissa gave her permission to go. Okay.

11:41

That is a call that is made

11:43

all over the country every

11:45

Friday night in towns everywhere.

11:48

Hey,

11:49

can I go to the football game? Sure. Absolutely.

11:52

I did that when I was young, you know, always

11:55

asked, can I go to the game tonight? You

11:57

know, well you had to be there because you were

11:59

the water boy. way I thought, but, uh, it

12:01

had to mix up that high quality H2O.

12:06

Okay. So

12:09

I don't know why you had to ask permission to

12:12

go to the football game. Around 8.30 PM,

12:15

Melissa called Carly and asked for a

12:17

ride home. Carly sounded

12:19

frantic during this call. She wouldn't

12:21

let Melissa hang up on her. Melissa

12:24

noticed that she didn't hear the sounds of a

12:26

football game in the background, such

12:29

as the band or the crowd sharing, she

12:31

arrived in Bishop and asked Carly

12:33

where she was. Carly said she

12:36

was running down Dixon lane. Melissa

12:38

made the turn and saw Carly

12:41

running down the road with her flashlight.

12:44

Think as a stepmom or just

12:46

a mom, probably be somewhat

12:49

concerned. Be like, what are you doing? What's going on?

12:51

Yeah. I mean, you know, I

12:54

think 8.30, you know, the game's not over.

12:56

No. So first of all, you're, you're trying

12:58

to figure out why you're not hearing the sounds

13:01

of the football game in the

13:03

background. But even more alarming,

13:06

I think is, you know, when

13:08

you see your daughter, your stepdaughter

13:11

running down the street with

13:13

a flashlight, I

13:14

mean,

13:15

your thoughts have to be racing, what's going on?

13:17

Is someone chasing her? Is she having,

13:20

you know, some type of medical emergency?

13:22

Melissa was concerned by Carly's

13:25

odd behavior and asked her what was going on.

13:27

Carly said she was scared and wanted to

13:29

go home and then admitted

13:32

that she had lied about going to the game. Carly

13:35

had actually gone to a party with her boyfriend

13:38

and smoked marijuana. What you would

13:40

think the lying's bad, you know,

13:43

smoking marijuana is a 16 year old.

13:45

Not that great, but is

13:48

it something you feel like you're really going to get in

13:50

trouble for? I mean, you might

13:52

get grounded because you lied,

13:55

right?

13:55

If that was my kid, I'd probably be like, you

13:58

lied to me.

13:59

You know.

13:59

Why did you lie to me? And

14:02

you know, you're not supposed to be smoking.

14:04

You're 16.

14:05

Don't do it.

14:06

Yeah, I get what you're saying. I mean, it's not

14:09

into the world type stuff, but you

14:11

know, we have talked about on many

14:14

occasions, what goes through a teenager's

14:16

head about what is into

14:20

the world type stuff. That's true. You

14:23

know, many 15, 16, 17 year olds think

14:26

that something is much

14:28

worse than let's say what

14:31

you and I might think of it, whether

14:33

that's the end of a relationship or

14:35

getting caught lying or, you

14:37

know, whatever. Carly's boyfriend

14:39

Donald spoke with the Las Vegas

14:41

Review Journal and said that Carly

14:44

started panicking after she smoked.

14:46

He said, she got scared of the

14:48

music. She got scared of me. I

14:51

almost feel like it was like a strong

14:53

strain or maybe some

14:55

marijuana that could have been laced. Yeah, I

14:57

actually had that thought as well.

15:00

Now in a later article by the Review

15:02

Journal, Donald was quoted as saying she

15:04

hadn't smoked in a while. It could have

15:07

triggered something. And sources

15:10

noted that Carly had previously

15:12

had adverse reactions to

15:14

marijuana. Well, you know, when you

15:17

eat a food or take a drug and

15:19

it doesn't agree with you, you know what

15:21

you shouldn't do? Do it again. But

15:25

there's peer pressure. We all know about that.

15:27

For sure. You're young at this time.

15:29

And you think, well, I'm not going to experience

15:32

that again. Right. Maybe. And

15:34

I can't tell you how many times I've said I shouldn't do that again

15:36

and I do it again. Well, you're big

15:38

on do as I say, not as

15:40

I do. That's something I've learned.

15:43

Thank you.

15:44

Carly was anxious during the drive home.

15:47

At one point she screamed at Melissa

15:49

that she was driving too fast. They

15:51

got home around 9 PM. Zach

15:53

noticed that something was wrong immediately.

15:56

He asked Carly what she had taken and

15:59

she told him that. she smoked pot. It

16:01

didn't seem like Carly was having any medical

16:04

problems, just that she was feeling

16:06

anxious and

16:07

paranoid.

16:08

So really no reason to take

16:10

her to the ER at this point, the

16:13

way that the family is perceiving it. No, no,

16:15

no. I think from the information that we

16:17

have, it does remind me of the

16:19

story of my oldest when she

16:22

was much, much younger. She

16:24

was really big on one of

16:27

these packets that you

16:29

mix with a 16 ounce bottle

16:32

of water, flavored water.

16:35

And we would buy them for her. One

16:38

time a family member bought some, but

16:40

it had high amount of

16:43

caffeine in it. And she

16:45

drank like three or four of these things, I

16:47

guess, without our knowledge, and

16:50

literally thought she was dying. We

16:52

almost had to take her to the ER because

16:54

she was so caffeinated up. That's

16:57

what she said. She said

16:59

her heart felt like it was about ready to

17:02

jump out of her chest. Is this the same one that now has the...

17:06

Caffeine addiction? Yeah. Okay. Actually,

17:09

both of my daughters love caffeine.

17:11

So

17:12

the family ate together and Melissa

17:14

went with Carly into her room to try to

17:16

help her settle down. According to the Charlie

17:19

Project, Carly wrote in her last

17:21

text to Donald that she thought

17:23

the marijuana was laced with something. So

17:27

it's a good point that

17:29

you made. And I was kind of

17:31

thinking something similar.

17:34

There are some scary

17:36

things out there. We hear all the

17:38

time about

17:39

fentanyl.

17:40

Sure. And back

17:43

in the day, they used to lace

17:46

marijuana with PCP and different

17:49

things like that. Maybe they still do. I don't know.

17:52

Angel dust or whatever you call it. And

17:55

yeah, you can have some really bad

17:58

reaction. Yeah, you gotta be careful. Where

18:00

you buy your marijuana from if

18:03

you're allowed to buy it Melissa recorded

18:06

a conversation with Carly with

18:08

the intention of playing it back for her Basically

18:11

to teach her a lesson about drug

18:14

use this eight-minute recording

18:16

was not made public until 2023 the

18:19

following quotes come from the audio

18:22

released by People magazine Investigate

18:25

and you know, we could have played the whole thing, but

18:28

it's eight minutes long. It's pretty long So

18:30

we're just gonna pare it down to kind

18:32

of the quintessential quotes

18:35

Carly told Melissa you're

18:37

gonna kill me Melissa responded

18:39

Carly. Listen to what you just said to me

18:42

Carly said what Melissa? Said

18:45

you said you're going to kill me Carly

18:48

replied don't kill me Melissa.

18:51

Why would I kill you? That's Preposterous

18:53

that's ridiculous. Carly said

18:56

I'm eating the devil's lettuce.

18:58

What is the devil's lettuce? Is that marijuana?

19:01

I don't know Why

19:04

would you ask the question if you don't know? Cuz

19:07

I figure you would know I think it is

19:09

the marijuana The marijuana

19:12

where are you 90? Are

19:14

you smoking the marijuana? No, I'm

19:16

just eating the lettuce Melissa said

19:19

you're eating lettuce that I just

19:21

freshly chopped that I bought

19:24

from the grocery store So I

19:26

don't know that she was referring to marijuana I

19:29

think she was actually referring to the lettuce but

19:32

for some reason calling it the devil's lettuce.

19:34

I don't know It's a heck of a salad

19:36

though. Carly said I don't know why

19:38

I'm just thinking that Melissa

19:41

asked Why would you think it's the devil's

19:43

lettuce to which Carly replied

19:45

because I'm just thinking all this demonic

19:48

stuff I can't help it. Melissa

19:50

said you're okay Carly asked

19:53

you wouldn't call them Melissa

19:55

said why would you look at me like that Carly

19:58

came back? Well, you just said

20:00

you wouldn't, would you call them?

20:03

Melissa asked 911 if for what reason, if

20:07

there was an emergency. Carly said,

20:10

if I were to die. Melissa said,

20:12

if there was an emergency, yes, I would always

20:14

call 911. Carly said,

20:16

I'm just so scared.

20:18

So,

20:19

you know, I do kind of understand why Melissa

20:21

would want to record this. It

20:24

is a very strange conversation.

20:26

And she said, it was with the intention of,

20:28

you know, playing it back later and

20:30

just kind of saying, or just kind

20:32

of pointing out, look, here's how you were

20:34

acting, you know, when you

20:36

were high. Yeah. Maybe a good

20:39

idea if you don't do that. It

20:41

kind of reminds me of how people will record

20:43

their kids after they have the wisdom teeth

20:45

pulled out. And laugh because

20:48

they talk about all kinds of strange

20:51

things. We should do like Laughing

20:54

Gas podcast, like

20:56

one time with me on Laughing Gas. Both

20:59

of us would be even better, but somebody

21:01

probably needs to keep us on track. I

21:04

can barely interpret you stone

21:07

cold sober. That is very

21:09

true. I don't know what I would do if you were on

21:11

Laughing Gas, but it would be funny. Yeah. There's

21:14

no doubt about it. We can get a dentist to sign

21:16

off on there, or a dentist. True

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G I.com. Later

23:24

in the conversation, Carly asked Melissa,

23:26

why are you scaring me? Melissa

23:29

tried to joke with Carly by telling

23:31

her not to look at her face and asking,

23:34

is it because I'm ugly? Melissa

23:36

then told Carly she loved her. Carly

23:38

said she loved her too. And Melissa said,

23:41

it's going to be okay. You know, the

23:43

sad part about this conversation

23:46

is that it was one of the last

23:48

conversations that Carly

23:50

ever had before she went missing. Yeah,

23:53

that's a very good point. And

23:55

like I said, it was very strange.

23:58

And then towards the end of it. It

24:00

doesn't seem like maybe it was

24:02

a little more normal right melissa

24:04

was trying to be supportive they

24:07

both told each other they love them and

24:09

melissa said it's going to be okay according

24:12

to the news outlet san francisco gate.

24:15

Some accounts of the audio say that carly

24:17

asked her parents repeatedly to call

24:19

nine one one however melissa

24:22

said that carly asked her to call nine

24:24

one one if something bad

24:26

happened. No sources differ

24:28

on exactly what happened next.

24:32

In two thousand twenty three will this

24:34

spoke with people magazine investigate

24:36

and said that she and carly were

24:39

still up at five forty five am.

24:41

Carly had calmed down and was

24:43

doing on a piece of paper

24:46

fell asleep around six am. The

24:49

las vegas review journal reported

24:51

that melissa fell asleep woke

24:53

up at five forty five am and

24:56

so carly lying on the bed with

24:58

her eyes open. Then went back

25:00

to sleep will also woke up again

25:02

around seven fifteen to seven thirty

25:05

and solve it carly wasn't in the room to

25:07

check the house in yard but carly

25:10

wasn't there. So it's you know there's

25:12

a pretty big discrepancy here

25:14

in the reporting and will talk more

25:16

about it later along

25:18

with some other discrepancies

25:21

and theories. Listen zach

25:23

thought carly might have gone out for a walk

25:25

she got in her vehicle to go look for

25:27

her zach still at home

25:30

called carly's phone and saw that

25:32

it was still in the house carly had

25:34

also left behind her glasses

25:36

and money. And again we talk about

25:38

this in many episodes how

25:40

many people are gonna leave the house specially

25:43

sixteen year old without their cell

25:45

phone right glasses and

25:48

some money now. This might be

25:50

a little different situation because

25:53

we know at least at some

25:55

point carly was acting

25:58

a little irrational you have to say. that

26:00

she was saying some very strange things. You

26:03

know, was it the result

26:05

of her, you know, having smoked marijuana?

26:08

But again, we'll have to figure out what

26:10

time did she leave? Was she still

26:12

under the effects at that point? Well,

26:15

that's my question, right? How long was

26:17

this stuff in her system that was

26:19

making her feel this way? It

26:21

seems like a really long time for it

26:23

still to have an impact on her. If

26:26

it was simply marijuana,

26:29

I would have to agree with you. That would

26:31

be a very long time to still

26:33

be under, you know, I think

26:36

under its effect. And I know

26:38

every parent's different, but I think

26:40

if I was up with my child, if I

26:42

picked her up that early and she

26:45

was acting this way and

26:47

by two o'clock at night, things

26:49

were not progressing better, I would

26:51

probably say, you know what, let's go ahead and run

26:53

up to the ER. Because something's

26:56

not right. Because if you just smoked

26:58

some bad marijuana, I think you'd

27:01

probably be okay by now. Not still

27:04

feeling the effects that you are. Not

27:06

saying that what I would do is the better

27:08

choice. Yeah, no, I get you. But that's just my

27:10

preference. Yeah. And I know

27:14

you're in no way saying what

27:16

Melissa did was wrong. You're just saying

27:18

maybe you might do something a little different. Zach

27:22

got into his vehicle and drove

27:24

around to look for Carly. Two

27:26

hours later, Melissa spoke with a

27:28

neighbor named Richard Eddie and learned

27:31

that he has seen Carly walking

27:33

past his house around 6.30 AM. I'm

27:36

always amazed at what time people are up.

27:39

I guess because I don't have to get up

27:41

super early for work. Yeah. 6.30 is

27:44

all for early, man. It is. My

27:46

wife's been out the door for a long time

27:49

by 6.30. Yeah.

27:51

I had a job like that one time. Richard

27:53

was sitting in his Jacuzzi drinking

27:55

coffee when he saw a girl walking

27:58

by his house. She had long. brown

28:00

hair was wearing a white top with

28:02

gray bottoms and was waving

28:04

a piece of white paper and looking up

28:07

at the sky. So this guy obviously was

28:09

not getting ready for work or

28:11

maybe that was his routine before work. And

28:13

maybe that's his morning routine. Let me have some coffee

28:16

and getting this hot tub and get my blood flowing.

28:18

That doesn't sound half bad actually drinking

28:20

coffee in a jacuzzi. Is there going to

28:22

be a jacuzzi over here next time I stopped by? No,

28:25

probably not in the studio. Zach and

28:27

Melissa called the police to report

28:29

Carly missing and a deputy

28:31

from the Mono County Sheriff's

28:33

office came to the house to speak to them. Melissa

28:36

told the responding deputy that she

28:39

had already reached out to all of Carly's friends

28:41

and her boyfriend, and none of them

28:43

had seen her that morning. She said that

28:45

Carly had smoked weed the night before and

28:48

explained her unusual behavior. She

28:50

said she didn't think Carly ran

28:52

away and seemed extremely worried

28:55

about her. She then shared her audio

28:57

recording and mentioned the neighbor's

29:00

sighting. So it sounds like she's doing everything

29:02

that she should be doing. Yeah. It doesn't seem as though

29:04

she's hiding anything at this

29:07

point, right? They called the police.

29:10

They explained what happened.

29:13

They even divulged that Carly

29:15

had smoked weed, played the

29:17

recording and, you know,

29:20

they went out of their way to call the boyfriend

29:22

and all of Carly's friends. All the

29:24

things you think a parent would

29:26

do. Yeah. I don't know what else more you could have

29:28

done. The police spoke with Richard

29:31

Eddie and noted that his

29:33

description of Carly's outfit, gray

29:35

sweats and a white shirt was

29:37

different from Melissa's description.

29:40

Melissa said she was wearing skinny

29:42

jeans and a sweater. So maybe

29:44

Carly changed clothes or maybe this

29:47

was just a different girl. Yeah.

29:49

I mean, I think we don't know anything

29:52

definitively. I do know

29:54

that my girls change clothes a lot

29:57

during a day. You changed three times

29:59

since we started. are recording this. I have just

30:02

for funsies. The police started to search

30:04

for Carly in the early afternoon, utilizing

30:07

dogs, drones, and helicopters.

30:09

Donald Erlewood and an 18

30:12

year old named James Doolan assisted

30:15

in the search. The police learned that James

30:18

was hosting the party at his

30:20

parents house. Donald described

30:22

how Carly's demeanor changed after

30:25

smoking at the party. The young men were

30:27

asked if the marijuana was laced with anything.

30:30

They said no, and added that

30:32

everyone had smoked the same marijuana and

30:35

didn't have a reaction like Carly.

30:38

So either Carly really had

30:40

a bad reaction to that, or

30:43

did Carly take something else along

30:45

with smoking the marijuana? That no one else

30:48

knew about,

30:49

or

30:50

could somebody have laced it

30:52

before they gave it to her? I mean, there

30:54

are a lot of things to think about. There sure is. But

30:57

this is why, you know, when I was

30:59

in high school, I never wanted to be

31:01

the person hosting the party. I

31:03

always went to parties at other people's

31:06

houses because number

31:08

one, I didn't want to get my ass kicked for,

31:11

you know, somebody messing up the house or

31:13

something like that. But number two, you

31:16

know, I was thinking about liability even back

31:18

then. Yeah, as a 16, 17 year old. Yeah.

31:22

Yeah, I didn't want my parents to get in trouble

31:24

for, you know, me doing

31:27

something and somebody leaving the party

31:29

and doing something stupid or getting hurt

31:31

or something like that. You just go to the party with your

31:33

little dime bag and your case of little kings.

31:38

Mickey's wide mouth. Or Mickey's wide mouth. After

31:40

the party, James gave Donald

31:43

and Carly a ride to Donald's house. Carly

31:46

became increasingly paranoid and

31:48

ran away from it. And this is when

31:50

she called her mom. And this kind

31:52

of, you know, backs up what Donald

31:55

told the Las Vegas Review

31:57

Journal, right? He said.

32:00

that Carly ran away from him

32:02

and actually said she was scared of him

32:05

for some reason. Donald called

32:07

and texted her several times before

32:09

he went to sleep that night. His dad

32:12

confirmed that he was home all

32:14

night. James also said he was

32:16

home the entire night. Now, both

32:19

guys were reluctant to say where they

32:21

got the marijuana from, but they

32:23

went with the police to James' house.

32:26

And investigators took the smoking

32:28

device and the marijuana for testing.

32:31

The police also obtained doorbell

32:33

security video that showed that Donald,

32:36

Carly, and James arrived at his house

32:39

at 604 PM and left

32:41

at 8 PM, which corroborated

32:43

their story. Investigators noted

32:46

that Carly was able to walk by herself

32:48

to the car in the 8 PM

32:50

video. And here again,

32:53

how important nowadays is

32:56

this doorbell security video

32:59

that a lot of people

33:01

seem to have? I think if you're a good

33:03

person and you don't plan on doing

33:05

anything bad, you should get your cell phone in these doorbells.

33:08

Okay. What if you're a bad

33:10

person? No. Do not get it. You

33:12

should not get it. And you should probably

33:14

go mess up your neighbor's ones across the street. But

33:17

don't do that. But just think about the information

33:20

that investigators are able to

33:22

retreat.

33:24

Obviously, we have the video that

33:26

confirms who was with who.

33:30

You've got the timestamp

33:33

of when they arrived, when they left,

33:35

but you also have actual

33:39

video of her walking. Is

33:41

she stumbling? Is she swaying?

33:44

And it didn't seem as though she was. Now,

33:48

what does that mean? We don't know. But

33:51

if she was falling down and she was,

33:53

okay, well, that gives

33:55

you some insight

33:58

into maybe just how. intoxicated

34:01

she was. I

34:03

just think, you know, back to cases

34:05

before this type of video

34:08

existed and you wouldn't have

34:10

any of that. All you would have is

34:12

what other people said. Yeah. And

34:14

then you'd have to figure out, are

34:17

they telling the truth or not? Well, the

34:19

video doesn't lie. No, it sure doesn't.

34:22

Now, could somebody change a timestamp?

34:24

Maybe. I don't know how all that works, but

34:27

the video itself doesn't lie. Some

34:30

of Carly's friends noticed that she

34:32

started smoking marijuana more often and

34:34

showed some signs of depression around

34:37

the time she started dating. Dung. Carly's

34:40

friend Taylor told People Magazine Investigates

34:43

that there was a rumor that

34:45

James's house was a place where

34:48

you could smoke a lot of pot

34:50

and you could potentially do other

34:53

things. That was a direct quote.

34:55

Yeah. And that's very vague.

34:59

Yeah. Does it mean you could do

35:01

other drugs or does it mean that you

35:03

could have a little bit of quality

35:06

alone time with your girlfriend

35:08

boyfriend? I don't know. Yeah. I

35:10

don't, I don't know what you make of that. But

35:13

really we all had that person we knew

35:15

that had that house, right? That

35:17

house that parents weren't home a lot.

35:20

Yep. You could get away with a lot of things

35:22

that you probably shouldn't be doing, but you

35:24

could go there and things that you wouldn't

35:26

dare do at your own home. Absolutely not. Now

35:30

I'm taking this potentially do other

35:32

things and I'm leaning towards

35:35

the drug angle or drinking. Yeah.

35:38

I'm really leaning towards other

35:40

like harder drug. Yeah. Cause

35:43

I think if it was drinking, that

35:46

probably would have been set. Yeah.

35:48

I think, you know, the person said it vaguely

35:51

on purpose because maybe you're talking

35:53

about much stronger drug.

35:56

Well, I remember I was 16. I went to

35:58

a friend's house. Why

36:00

are you using quotation marks? I don't know. Air

36:03

quotes. This felt right to use it. Okay. But

36:05

I went there and, you know, we, uh,

36:08

there was marijuana, but there was also speed.

36:11

And I never tried speed before. I thought

36:13

today is a good day for

36:15

me to try this. Okay. Right. You're being

36:18

very open. I am being open. And

36:20

so the one

36:22

brother gave me the speed, I think he gave me too much.

36:25

And I tell you what, I

36:28

felt like my heart was coming out of my chest. Uh,

36:31

I felt, uh, just

36:33

so

36:34

weird,

36:35

very chatty. And, uh,

36:37

later in the night, I felt like, I mean, I was just

36:40

getting sick. You know, not

36:42

a great experience, not a great experience. I remember

36:45

after it, I'm thinking never

36:47

again. First, first and last. Yeah. Yeah.

36:50

Luckily I had a good older brother and got

36:52

ahold of him and he came and got me. And, you

36:54

know, took care of you. Care of me. Yeah. So

36:57

they did testing and it revealed

36:59

that the marijuana from the party was

37:02

not laced with anything. So,

37:04

you know, that's a big question

37:07

to answer, but it also raises

37:09

the question of, okay,

37:12

if it wasn't laced, then

37:14

what caused her strange behavior? Yeah.

37:17

And, and for it to last as long as it did

37:20

on October 14th, multiple agencies

37:22

showed up to assist in the search, including

37:25

the FBI. Investigators searched

37:27

a 10 mile radius around Katie's

37:30

home that day. A second witness

37:32

named Kenneth Dutton came forward

37:35

with information. Can Dutton

37:37

live seven houses away from

37:39

the goose a family. He was in his driveway

37:42

that morning when Carly walked past,

37:45

like Richard Eddie, he described

37:47

her as wearing a white shirt, gray

37:49

sweats, and holding a piece of

37:51

paper. So how important is that

37:54

to have a second

37:56

witness corroborate

37:59

the first. witnesses, uh, account.

38:02

And this is a person who knew Carly

38:05

could definitively say it was her unlike

38:08

the first witness, but they both gave

38:11

the same description of

38:13

what she was wearing. Finally, a third

38:15

witness saw a girl who looked like Carly

38:18

on the side of highway six at the intersection

38:21

with white mountain, the state's road

38:23

around 7 15 to seven 20 AM. This

38:26

third eyewitness has not been publicly

38:29

identified. However, it was reported

38:31

that they were going to cut firewood at

38:33

the time they saw Carly. So

38:35

again, that's another good

38:38

lead, right? It's a good lead

38:40

in that if it was Carly,

38:42

it gives a little more in

38:45

the way of a timeframe and location

38:47

and location. So this highway six

38:50

is a two lane road that goes towards

38:53

Bishop and leads into Nevada

38:55

or Southern California. Carly's

38:57

home is less than a mile from the highway.

39:00

Tracking dogs lost her scent in

39:02

this area, according to the Las

39:04

Vegas reviewed journal. All right.

39:06

So again, at least it's telling

39:09

us at one point she left her house,

39:12

kept walking and found herself at

39:14

this location. If you believe the reports

39:17

and believe that the dogs actually picked up percent and

39:20

went there. Yeah. And I do believe

39:22

it, you know, that this third witness,

39:25

I don't think, you know, didn't know who Carly

39:27

was said they saw

39:29

a girl who looked like Carly.

39:31

But when you combine that with the

39:34

dogs tracking her

39:37

to that point, does it lend

39:40

a little more credence to that

39:42

person's account and

39:44

make it more likely than not that it was

39:46

Carly? And I think it does. According

39:49

to lead investigator, Jason

39:51

Pelachowski, their theory

39:53

is that Carly walked voluntarily

39:55

to highway six, but after this,

39:58

they don't know what happened to her. And

40:01

we have actually seen this happen in

40:03

a number of cases. You know, dogs

40:05

track a scent to let's say

40:08

a highway or a road and

40:10

then all of a sudden they lose it. And

40:13

kind of the prevailing thought in a

40:15

lot of those cases is that the

40:18

person who's missing got into

40:20

a vehicle with someone. And

40:23

that's why the dogs weren't able to

40:25

track the scent any further. And

40:28

you could definitely make the argument that that's

40:30

a possibility here in this case. And

40:33

maybe that's why she went

40:35

to Highway 6. I think that's a really strong possibility.

40:39

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all the time. lasted

42:00

a week on October 20th, the

42:02

authority said that Carley's disappearance

42:05

did not meet the criteria for an

42:07

Amber alert because there was no evidence

42:10

of an abduction. So they had their guidelines

42:13

and you got to follow the guidelines. I

42:15

know probably some people are saying,

42:17

man, couldn't they not make an exception

42:20

sometimes? Well, I think the argument

42:23

against that would be then

42:25

does the Amber alert lose

42:28

its effectiveness? You know,

42:30

if an Amber alert is going out

42:32

for every person who's reported

42:35

missing, right? Then that thing would be

42:37

popping up on our phones all

42:40

the time. And you wouldn't look at it. And

42:42

people might discount it because

42:45

a lot of those people turn out not to be missing,

42:47

right? They, they return, there's some confusion

42:50

or whatever posters were

42:52

put up around the city of Bishop, thousands

42:55

of people joined Facebook groups about

42:58

Carley's disappearance and Melissa

43:00

did Facebook live streams. Dateline

43:03

reached out to Melissa and Zach. According

43:06

to Melissa, the sheriff told them

43:08

not to do interviews, but they

43:10

wanted to bring awareness to Carley's

43:13

case. So tough decision, right? The

43:15

sheriff is saying, don't talk about it. Don't

43:17

do anything. We're working on

43:20

it. But then as the dad

43:22

and stepmom, you're thinking

43:24

we want to

43:25

get it out there. Well, so I had the

43:27

question. You know, why does the sheriff

43:29

not want them to do interview?

43:32

What is the harm? Misinformation.

43:35

Possibly, possibly.

43:37

But my thought is

43:39

that if you can get the

43:41

story out to a national

43:44

audience, man, that's hard to

43:46

beat. It is hard to be because we

43:49

don't know where she is. We don't know how far she's

43:51

traveled. Right. So the more

43:54

people that know about it and

43:56

see her picture, the better

43:58

chance that somebody has spotted. her

44:00

and can give the authority some good information.

44:03

So, I mean, I think I would make the

44:05

same decision because I'm

44:07

not really sure what detriment

44:12

the interview would cause and whatever

44:14

it would be. I think

44:16

the exposure would outweigh it. Yeah. They,

44:18

they'd have to make day being the sheriff's department,

44:21

but have to make a pretty strong case

44:24

to make you not follow through on it. Yes.

44:27

Zach told Dateline, he didn't

44:29

know what happened to Carly saying, I

44:31

don't think she would run away, but you can't

44:33

rule anything out. I think

44:36

it's possible that someone took her. I

44:38

think it's possible she ran away. Hey,

44:40

look, it's her dad. He would know

44:43

best. Um, my personal

44:45

thought is she probably didn't run away because

44:48

again, I think she would have taken her phone,

44:50

taken some money. Um, but,

44:53

um, then again, if you're really trying

44:55

to get away and you don't want to be looked

44:58

as someone running away, maybe

45:00

you can leave your phone behind in your glasses,

45:03

well, yeah, I mean, the phone's going to be

45:05

able to be tracked anyway. Yeah. And,

45:07

um, and stuff like that. I

45:09

guess my thing here is

45:13

we haven't heard anything

45:15

that really gives you the inclination

45:18

that she had a reason

45:20

to run away

45:21

unless there's something behind the scenes

45:24

that hasn't been made public. You

45:26

know, nobody's talked about to the media.

45:29

I really didn't see anything in her life

45:31

that would

45:32

have caused her to want to run away.

45:35

Doesn't mean it couldn't happen. And I think,

45:37

you know, the dad, as much

45:39

as he doesn't want to believe that is being

45:42

pretty honest when he says you can't

45:44

rule anything out because I don't think you can.

45:46

No, at that point you don't know, don't know enough

45:49

to say one or the other. During

45:51

her interview with Dateline, Melissa

45:54

lied about her actions on the morning

45:56

of October 13th, she

45:58

said that at five 45. She

46:00

opened the kids doors and said, good morning

46:03

to them. She saw Carly in

46:05

her bed and went back to sleep when

46:07

she woke up later that morning to check

46:10

on Carly, she was gone. Well,

46:12

you know what you don't want to do. You don't want

46:14

to lie, but you certainly don't want to lie

46:16

on a national TV show.

46:19

No, no, not on the national stage.

46:21

And we'll get into how it

46:23

comes about or how it's

46:26

figured out that she lied. In

46:28

early November, the sheriff's office searched

46:30

the desert with cadaver dogs. In

46:33

November, Melissa spoke with the Las

46:35

Vegas review journal and said, just

46:38

the thought of her going to the highway. It

46:40

makes me feel like someone just

46:43

happened to be driving by and grabbed

46:45

her. And that is a possibility.

46:48

I think it's a possibility too. You know, you

46:50

pull up next to somebody

46:52

who's walking down the road.

46:55

Maybe you offer them a ride. Maybe

46:58

they get in to a vehicle

47:01

with a person driving who has bad

47:03

intentions or you know, maybe

47:05

the person runs some kind of con

47:07

on them saying, Oh, my car

47:09

broke down or whatever gets this

47:12

gets Carly just close enough to the car,

47:14

grabs her throws her in and takes

47:17

off. There are a number of scenarios.

47:19

Zach said he believed Carly

47:22

smoked marijuana laced with

47:24

something else. But Carly's mother,

47:26

Lindsay said she believes Carly was high

47:29

on LSD. Carly had recently

47:32

asked her about the drug and Lindsay

47:34

told her it was dangerous. I

47:36

mean, LSD would make her act kind

47:39

of like how she was

47:40

doing.

47:41

Well, let's not kid ourselves. LSD

47:44

is a lot different than marijuana. Never

47:47

done LSD. I know you

47:49

were there in the sixties when, when

47:51

they were developing it as

47:54

a baby. When you

47:56

were there with Timothy Leary, when he was

47:59

getting everybody. to use it. If that baby

48:01

gave you some of that. But I mean, isn't

48:04

LSD the one they used to

48:06

experiment with people on?

48:09

Sure. And

48:11

it can do some nasty stuff,

48:14

as I understand. Lindsey

48:16

started to question Zach and Melissa

48:19

publicly. She appeared on Nancy

48:21

Grace's Crime Online podcast

48:23

in October and said, as quoted

48:25

by the Review Journal, I've been hearing

48:27

about four or five stories

48:30

now. So this is a tough situation.

48:32

Sure. Lindsey, the mother,

48:35

is publicly questioning Zach

48:38

and Melissa. They seem to be

48:40

at odds with each other or she's

48:43

not believing the story

48:45

she's hearing. She's saying she's hearing too many

48:48

stories. But why is that? If

48:50

you're telling a story, you said

48:53

this either a week ago or

48:55

a couple weeks ago, if you're telling a

48:57

story and you're being truthful about

48:59

the story, the story never changes,

49:01

right? But if you're lying, then

49:04

the story changes all the time because you can't

49:06

remember what you said from one story to the next.

49:09

Well, especially as time goes on, you

49:11

know, can I tell you the same lie

49:14

tomorrow that I tell you today?

49:17

Yeah, probably. Can I tell

49:19

you the same exact story a month

49:22

from now? Chances are slimmer.

49:25

A year from now, probably not. I'm

49:28

going to forget. Thousands of people

49:30

online were criticizing Zach

49:32

and Melissa and accusing them

49:35

of being involved in Carly's disappearance.

49:37

They analyzed their interview with Dateline

49:40

and Melissa's Facebook live video.

49:43

At one point, Lindsay called Zach

49:45

and asked if it was possible that

49:48

Melissa smothered Carly in her sleep.

49:51

Lindsay started posting on social media

49:53

about her suspicions, and she

49:55

brought up the audio recording that Melissa

49:57

made, which caused people to question

50:00

her about. Here's the sad part, right?

50:03

You have a 16 year old girl missing. Both

50:05

set of parents are not aligned

50:08

and that's just going to cause

50:10

disruption in the end game. Well,

50:13

and not that they're not

50:15

aligned, you know, a certain point,

50:18

the mom starts coming out and you

50:20

know, publicly wondering

50:23

if the stepmother smothered her

50:25

in her sleep. Well, if she doesn't

50:28

feel like she's getting the responses or answers

50:30

she deserves as the mom, she probably

50:32

felt like she probably felt like there was no other

50:34

alternative. I'm going to have to publicly

50:36

go with this because I need to know some answers.

50:39

Now the police did look into the possibility.

50:42

The Zach and Melissa were involved. They

50:44

did a forensic search of the house and

50:47

took the parents phones and Carly's

50:49

phone and belongings. Melissa

50:51

turned in the recording and they took polygraphs

50:54

with the FBI. Their phone data

50:56

corroborated their stories about their movements

50:59

on October 12th and 13th. So,

51:02

I mean, when you talk about people

51:05

cooperating, I don't really know

51:07

that you can cooperate any

51:10

more than that.

51:11

You

51:12

turned over your house

51:15

and let them do a forensic search. Yeah.

51:18

You know, you, you gave up all your cell

51:20

phones, you even took a polygraph for whatever

51:23

that's worth, but the cell

51:25

phone data, you know, is usually

51:27

pretty important and it corroborated

51:31

their story of, of where they said

51:33

they were on those days in February, 2019,

51:36

Sheriff Ingrid Braun

51:38

confirmed that they had served

51:40

search warrants for Carly's devices.

51:43

Sheriff Braun told news for, there

51:45

have been some very angry posts about

51:48

members of the family, accusing

51:50

them of a crime. At this point,

51:53

we don't have a crime. We have a missing

51:55

person and it's gotten really

51:58

angry and really nasty. towards

52:00

the family and it wasn't fair

52:02

to them. And that's a very, you

52:04

know, interesting statement. And

52:07

I would have to agree if they didn't have anything

52:09

to do with this, that's really rough

52:12

to question whether

52:14

or not Melissa smothered

52:17

Carly in her sleep. Yeah.

52:20

Yeah. I think until you have certain

52:23

evidence around that, I think

52:25

it's hard to go after somebody. On

52:28

March 25th, 2019, Dr. Phil

52:31

show aired an interview with Melissa,

52:34

Zach and Lindsay, but Lindsay

52:36

was interviewed separately

52:38

from them.

52:39

During that interview, Melissa

52:41

recanted the story. She told Dateline

52:44

Dateline added her statements to

52:46

their original article. Dr.

52:48

Phil said, Melissa, you told NBC

52:51

the next morning that at five 45

52:54

am you did your usual routine

52:56

of opening up the kids' doors, saying,

52:59

good morning, getting them ready for school,

53:01

that sort of thing. She was still in bed

53:04

at that time. Did you go back

53:06

and lay down? Melissa responded,

53:09

no. That the Dateline

53:11

NBC. Yeah, that was a

53:14

false story because I wasn't,

53:16

it was a lie about checking in on Carly

53:19

because it was in the beginning and I didn't

53:21

know what to say. And I shouldn't have even

53:24

done the interview. And maybe this

53:26

goes back to the sheriff's suggestion

53:29

not to do any interviews. Stay

53:31

clear of doing interviews. And maybe that's

53:34

what the sheriff meant. Zach added,

53:36

it was too early. You don't know what to do.

53:39

There's no handbook for this man.

53:42

And that, that part I get, there

53:44

is no handbook that

53:47

you're given as a parent, really

53:49

for much of anything, if you

53:51

think about it. Now there are books out

53:53

there about, you know, what's the

53:55

best way to raise a child, this

53:58

and that. Right. Where's the a handbook

54:01

on if something goes horribly

54:03

wrong. Yeah. What do you do? What

54:05

should you, what you should not, what shouldn't you

54:08

do? What should you say? What you should

54:10

not say? Is it safe to say

54:12

common sense would tell you if it didn't

54:15

happen that way. Just don't say it. Yeah.

54:17

I mean, I think that's an

54:19

absolutely great point. You don't

54:21

really need a handbook to

54:23

know that you shouldn't lie

54:26

about something. It's going

54:28

to come back to bite you in the ass. Because

54:30

it's just going to make people wonder why

54:33

did you say it that way? I mean,

54:35

I get it. It was early on. You weren't sure what

54:37

to say. So why not just say nothing

54:40

or tell the truth or tell the truth, but

54:42

why make up something unless

54:44

there's a reason why you felt you had to make up

54:46

something. Well, you know, was it because in

54:49

her mind, she thought people

54:51

were going to vilify her because elder

54:53

going to vilify

54:56

her for telling the lie. Well, they did. Yeah,

54:58

they did anyway. Yeah. Maybe she

55:01

was just thinking, you know, if I

55:03

said I didn't check on her, they would think,

55:05

well, you didn't care. She had all these

55:07

problems and you just went back to bed

55:09

and didn't worry about it. I don't really know

55:12

what her reasoning was, but, you know,

55:15

as we've seen, and

55:17

I think as everyone knows, the

55:20

truth is, is usually the way.

55:22

Now, is there a reason to

55:25

lie sometimes? And I would

55:27

say, yeah, there is. Do we tell white

55:29

lies to our kids?

55:31

Sure.

55:31

Who hasn't? About

55:34

certain things and whether they exist

55:36

or don't exist and, you

55:39

know, who brings this and things

55:41

like that. Like how you were very

55:44

vague about that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think we

55:46

all, I don't know why, because there's no kids listening

55:48

to this, but you know, you

55:50

know what I mean. Lindsey said in

55:53

her interview is quoted by the Las

55:55

Vegas Review Journal. I believe

55:57

my daughter had a fatal drug

55:59

overdose. And i believe that very

56:01

early morning will sell her with her

56:04

eyes open and i think that's when

56:06

my daughter passed. According

56:08

to people magazine investigate lindsay

56:11

has speculated that carly had an

56:13

adverse reaction to the marijuana, and

56:16

that zach and melissa may have disposed

56:18

of her

56:19

body

56:20

okay that is a very

56:22

serious accusation it

56:24

really is it also

56:27

makes me wonder what did those eyewitnesses

56:29

see. Right well that yeah so

56:31

that's a great point if

56:33

she was dead then how did she

56:35

leave the house and have

56:38

multiple people spot

56:40

her walking. In this

56:42

very specific outfit holding

56:44

a white piece of paper where is

56:46

she saying that. Zach and

56:48

melissa tractor down after that point

56:52

or and then she died i mean so i

56:54

that's a little hazy or did these people see somebody

56:56

but it really wasn't carly

56:59

yeah just the way that. Kind of resemble

57:02

her possible awesome

57:04

because i do believe the first witness

57:06

we talked about in the third witness. Didn't

57:10

know carly but it did sound to me

57:12

is the second witness

57:14

live so close that they

57:17

probably would have known what she looked like

57:19

and known whether or not it really was her.

57:22

Lindsay also said that she heard part

57:24

of the recording and said carly ask

57:26

zach and melissa to call nine one

57:28

one.

57:29

Well a

57:30

lot of controversy about the recording and if

57:32

she did ask her parents her

57:35

dad is that mom to call nine one one at

57:37

that moment. You would think that they

57:40

should have done that i think

57:42

the dad and mom are saying

57:44

that she said if

57:46

i need to go to hospital

57:49

you call nine one one yes i

57:51

think that's what they've said so

57:53

but who

57:54

do you believe. Well the online comments

57:56

against zach and melissa got worse after

57:59

they appeared on. Dr. Phil, Melissa

58:01

told People Magazine Investigates that

58:03

someone stalked them, took pictures

58:06

of their house and posted it online.

58:08

In 2023, Melissa

58:10

told People Magazine Investigates, I

58:13

started the lie because they

58:15

didn't want to give out any information

58:17

that might deter the investigation.

58:20

And I even called the reporter who had

58:22

done our interview and asked her

58:24

to redact it and told her blatantly

58:26

that I had lied. And that was when I started

58:29

to receive a lot of backlash from

58:31

random people, strangers, accusing

58:33

me of doing harmful things to her. And

58:36

then I killed her and I buried her and

58:38

that she's missing because of me. Well,

58:41

people are gonna definitely react

58:43

to things like this, right? They're

58:45

not going to be indifferent

58:47

on this. No, not on social

58:50

media. You know, I think we've learned

58:52

people don't hold back. They're

58:54

not afraid to blast

58:56

someone,

58:58

whether they're

58:59

sure they deserve it or not. People

59:02

kind of let loose. And,

59:04

you know, she did admit to lying.

59:06

And so just based on that fact

59:08

alone, some people are gonna, you

59:11

know, really give it to her about

59:13

that. And what did the lie do? It took away from

59:15

the investigation. Yeah. You

59:17

know, it did cause a delay

59:20

because where's all the focus now? Focus

59:23

is now, at least in the social

59:25

media arena, the focus is on the lie.

59:27

Yeah, it is. Now, you would

59:30

feel really bad for Melissa

59:33

if she had nothing to do with

59:35

Carly's disappearance and

59:38

Zach as well, because, you know,

59:40

they're getting crushed and have gotten

59:43

crushed on the internet, not

59:45

just for what Melissa said,

59:48

but to actually have people

59:50

say, you know, we know you

59:52

killed

59:53

Carly

59:54

and you disposed of her body.

59:57

That would be really rough to hear. That is rough.

59:59

you had nothing to do with it. The

1:00:02

Las Vegas Review Journal released

1:00:04

an article a year after Carly went

1:00:06

missing when asked by

1:00:08

the Review Journal if anyone had been

1:00:10

cleared, Sheriff Ingrid Braun

1:00:13

said, nobody's been cleared of anything.

1:00:15

Right now, I don't even have

1:00:18

a crime to clear them up.

1:00:20

And, you know, the sheriff has been pretty

1:00:23

consistent, you know, with

1:00:26

that. We don't know what the

1:00:29

crime is. We don't know that there

1:00:31

was a crime. And if there was,

1:00:34

we don't know what it was. Right.

1:00:36

So I think it is pretty hard to

1:00:39

clear people. Yeah, because at this point,

1:00:41

you just have a 16 year old

1:00:43

girl at that time, who's

1:00:45

gone missing. The Review

1:00:47

Journal noted that there has only been

1:00:49

one arrest in Carly's case. 18 year

1:00:52

old James Doolan was charged with

1:00:54

providing cannabis to Carly on October 12.

1:00:58

In January, 2019, he pleaded

1:01:00

guilty to contributing to the delinquency

1:01:03

of a minor. On the two year anniversary

1:01:06

of Carly's disappearance, the FBI

1:01:08

launched a campaign to renew interest

1:01:10

in the case. Mono County Sheriff's

1:01:13

investigator, Jason Pelichowski

1:01:15

told People magazine investigates that

1:01:18

in March, 2021, the

1:01:20

sheriff's office received a call from

1:01:22

a witness who claimed they saw

1:01:24

Carly at a party in

1:01:26

Tonopah, Nevada, about

1:01:29

a hundred miles from Chalfont

1:01:31

Valley. So pretty good

1:01:33

distance. Yeah. But hour

1:01:36

and a half. The FBI

1:01:38

spoke with the tipster. They said

1:01:40

they had known about the sighting and were

1:01:42

feeling guilty. They called in the tip so

1:01:45

late because they were involved

1:01:47

in drugs but had recently gotten

1:01:49

sober. They didn't know why Carly

1:01:52

was in Tonopah, but they provided

1:01:55

the make and model and approximate

1:01:57

location of the vehicle that

1:01:59

picked her up. up on highway six and

1:02:02

transported her to Nevada. So

1:02:04

it sounds like a potential good lead.

1:02:07

It could be. Yeah. You know, and we

1:02:09

often ask the question,

1:02:12

if somebody knows something, why wouldn't

1:02:15

they want to come forward? And almost

1:02:17

always it goes back to self

1:02:20

preservation. You know, that person

1:02:22

doesn't want to get in trouble because

1:02:25

they were doing something wrong themselves

1:02:28

when they witnessed whatever

1:02:32

happened. Yeah.

1:02:33

So in this case, the tips

1:02:36

are saying they were involved in drugs,

1:02:38

which is why they didn't want to call.

1:02:41

They didn't want to get in trouble, but now

1:02:43

they're sober, they're feeling guilty

1:02:46

and they're making the call. Whether all

1:02:48

of that is true or not, I don't know,

1:02:50

but it does sound plausible. Well,

1:02:52

I think Zach and Melissa in

1:02:55

a sense has to feel, I don't want to

1:02:57

say feel good about this, but

1:03:00

it certainly shows that there's

1:03:02

another eyewitness claiming

1:03:04

to see her, which means if

1:03:07

that's the case, clearly they didn't have

1:03:09

anything to do with killing her, burying

1:03:11

her body as

1:03:12

some of these statements have been.

1:03:15

And if this person is telling the truth

1:03:18

that this vehicle picked Carly

1:03:20

up on Highway six, it

1:03:22

would fit with the known facts, right?

1:03:25

The scent dogs lost her scent.

1:03:28

You know, at that point, we kind of

1:03:30

theorize that maybe she got in the vehicle.

1:03:32

Now why she

1:03:34

got in a vehicle or why she was

1:03:37

in Nevada, we don't know. Yeah.

1:03:40

And you know, the other question that,

1:03:42

that obviously comes to mind is it's

1:03:45

been like five years now. So

1:03:48

did she voluntarily disappear

1:03:51

and wants to say disappeared

1:03:55

potentially,

1:03:56

or

1:03:57

did she get in the truck? Somebody

1:03:59

took her. to Nevada, they

1:04:01

were partying, but something

1:04:04

bad ended up happening to her

1:04:06

there. Sure. That's possible as well.

1:04:09

So many different avenues you could

1:04:11

go down at that point, right? Mm-hmm.

1:04:13

And I think, you know, with each tip,

1:04:16

especially, you know, when you're getting farther

1:04:19

and farther away from her home, if

1:04:21

those tips are correct, it

1:04:24

opens up a lot of possibilities.

1:04:27

She's definitely going to be somebody very vulnerable.

1:04:31

If she's away from home in Nevada,

1:04:34

no money, no money. She'll

1:04:36

be dependent on whatever

1:04:39

individual, whoever that person is,

1:04:41

is willing to help her, and that could

1:04:44

end up being bad. Yeah, it could put her in

1:04:46

a very bad situation. The police

1:04:49

found this vehicle and

1:04:51

they took it to Reno, Nevada for processing.

1:04:54

According to Jason Pellechowski, they

1:04:56

are waiting on a lab to test

1:04:58

the items and give them the results.

1:05:01

There is a person of interest linked to the

1:05:03

vehicle, but investigators

1:05:06

can't disclose their identity. So,

1:05:09

I mean, that's interesting right

1:05:11

there. Yeah, I think so. Now

1:05:13

we don't know if this person

1:05:16

will ultimately, you know, turn

1:05:18

out to be involved. Maybe

1:05:21

they will. On October 8th, 2023,

1:05:23

the Las Vegas Review Journal

1:05:25

reported that authorities were searching

1:05:28

for clues in Tonopah. Sheriff

1:05:31

Ingrid Braun confirmed that this

1:05:33

lead was actively being investigated

1:05:36

by the sheriff's office and the FBI.

1:05:39

So that kind of makes you think

1:05:41

that there is something

1:05:44

there. Yeah, I mean, this is just what?

1:05:46

Days ago.

1:05:47

And maybe she actually did make

1:05:50

it to Nevada. She was seen

1:05:52

at a party in Nevada. They must

1:05:54

have something that is

1:05:57

taking them there to search

1:05:59

for clues. Carly Guse was

1:06:01

last seen walking towards Highway 6 near

1:06:04

the White Mountain Estates area of Chalfont

1:06:07

Valley in Mono County, California.

1:06:10

Carly has dark blonde hair, blue

1:06:13

eyes, is 5'7 and weighs around 110 pounds.

1:06:18

She has her left nostril pierced. She

1:06:20

was last seen wearing a white t-shirt,

1:06:23

gray sweats, or possibly

1:06:25

jeans and Vans shoes. The

1:06:28

NCMEC has released age

1:06:30

progress pictures of what Carly could

1:06:32

look like at age 20. Carly

1:06:34

would be 21 years old today. The

1:06:37

FBI is offering up to $5,000

1:06:40

for information leading to Carly's whereabouts

1:06:43

and the Guse family is offering a $10,000 reward.

1:06:47

If you have information about Carly Guse,

1:06:50

you can contact the Mono County Sheriff's

1:06:52

Office by calling 760-932-5678 or by emailing them

1:06:55

at carlygusetips at monosheriff.org.

1:07:06

You can also contact the FBI Sacramento

1:07:08

office at 916-746-7000. So 5

1:07:14

years, not a lot

1:07:16

has happened, you'd have to say that. What

1:07:20

is very promising though is that

1:07:23

something seems to be happening

1:07:26

just this month.

1:07:28

The FBI, the Sheriff's Office searching

1:07:31

in Nevada. Like I said,

1:07:33

there is something that

1:07:35

has put them there. Maybe

1:07:39

it's the person of interest linked to the

1:07:41

vehicle that they found. Maybe

1:07:44

it's some test results

1:07:46

that have come back that we're not privy

1:07:49

to. We don't know. I

1:07:51

just feel like Lindsey, Zach,

1:07:54

and Melissa are probably sitting on the edge of their

1:07:56

seats

1:07:57

waiting to find out what. from

1:08:01

this latest development. I think that that

1:08:03

has to happen for family with every

1:08:05

tip or every new

1:08:08

piece of information. You

1:08:10

know, you have to say, right, this

1:08:12

is the one we're finally going to figure

1:08:14

it out. And I'm sure they're thinking

1:08:17

or hoping she's still alive. They're going

1:08:19

to bring her home. Yeah. We'll be reunited.

1:08:23

But, you know, we'll have to

1:08:25

wait and see whether this tip pans

1:08:27

out or whether the case

1:08:30

goes cold. Obviously, you and I are

1:08:32

hoping for the former. Yeah.

1:08:35

I'd like to have this resolved. But that's

1:08:37

it for our episode on the disappearance

1:08:40

of Carly Guse. We've got some

1:08:42

voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Let's hear them.

1:08:44

Hi, this is Karen from Minnesota.

1:08:48

A couple things on your brand in Swanson.

1:08:51

You were wondering why, even though they

1:08:53

had all the evidence that something was

1:08:55

wrong from the parents, they didn't

1:08:57

do something right away. Well, that's

1:09:00

Minnesota. I mean, where the state

1:09:02

that elected Jesse Ventura Governor.

1:09:05

And the other thing is that area down

1:09:08

there is nothing but farms.

1:09:11

For as far as you can see, it's all

1:09:13

farmland down there. So

1:09:15

get out, get off the paved

1:09:18

highway. You're going to be, it's going to be nothing

1:09:20

but dirt roads everywhere. Love

1:09:22

your show. Keep it up. Thank

1:09:25

you. Bye. Well,

1:09:27

and I think that was part of the problem, right? The

1:09:29

farmland. The rural area. The rural area.

1:09:31

Yeah. I think that was one

1:09:34

of the issues in that case for sure. But thank

1:09:37

you for calling in with that information.

1:09:40

Hi, I'm Megan from Fife Lake,

1:09:42

Michigan. About

1:09:44

a month ago, I went through,

1:09:48

I even made it to 300 miles. And

1:09:51

then I re-passed and

1:09:53

I started from the ground. And

1:09:56

now I am at the

1:09:59

night. I

1:10:01

work for the pressing company. I listen

1:10:03

to you guys for about 18 hours

1:10:06

a day. So I'm a little obsessed

1:10:08

and I must say I am. I'm

1:10:12

sorry. There's something about good. That

1:10:14

could be just me slogan. Um,

1:10:17

thank you guys for all that you're doing. It's

1:10:20

your own time. Have

1:10:22

a great one.

1:10:23

All right. Thanks for calling in. Appreciate

1:10:26

it. I heard that there

1:10:28

was a sequel to there's something about

1:10:30

Mary called there's something about

1:10:32

Gibby. It's not going to be near as good,

1:10:34

but I heard that that was coming out better.

1:10:37

What an amazing voicemail by the way. Because

1:10:40

she said, why do you always say that about

1:10:42

the people who say team Gibby? That's

1:10:45

just wrong. Pandering. You're pandering.

1:10:48

Am I pandering? But no, we definitely

1:10:50

appreciate it. Trying to think you had me brought

1:10:52

up something about Mary and I'm trying to remember

1:10:55

the, the Frank's and the beans and the,

1:10:58

how'd you get the beans above the Frank? Oh,

1:11:03

that movie cracks me up. Um, the

1:11:06

first part of that, like the first what, five, 10

1:11:08

minutes of that movie is some

1:11:10

of the funniest stuff ever.

1:11:12

I mean, the whole movie is, is good. It's

1:11:15

funny, but that first scene

1:11:17

where, you know, everybody comes in,

1:11:20

the policeman sticks his head

1:11:22

or the firemen through the window. And

1:11:24

he's like, Hey, you come out in here. You got to see that. Oh,

1:11:29

it just cracks me up. All right, buddy.

1:11:31

That is it for another episode

1:11:33

of true crime all the time, unsolved. So for

1:11:35

Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep

1:11:37

your own time.

1:12:01

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