0:00

This is a big year.

0:02

The Ohio Lottery's Golden Anniversary.

0:05

50 years of excitement, of

0:07

growing jackpots and crossed fingers.

0:10

50 years of funding for schools, of

0:12

changed lives and brightened days. 50

0:15

years of fun. And that is worth

0:17

celebrating. So watch for

0:19

cantonist promotions, huge events and new

0:22

games that will make the Ohio

0:24

Lottery's 50th year its biggest one

0:26

yet. Learn more at

0:28

funturns50.com Savings

0:57

may vary by state. Restrictions apply. See site

0:59

for details. Sometime

1:06

in the early 80s, Ario

1:09

Speedwagon's airplane made an unannounced,

1:12

middle of the night landing. This is my

1:14

friend Kyle McLaughlin, the star of Twin Peaks.

1:16

And he's telling me about how he discovered

1:19

a real-life Twin Peaks in rural North Carolina,

1:21

not far from where he filmed Blue Velvet.

1:23

What was on the plane was copious amounts

1:25

of drugs, coming in from South America. Supposedly

1:28

Pablo Escobar went looking for other spots,

1:30

quiet, out of the way places to bring in

1:33

his cocaine. My

1:37

name is Joshua Davis, and I'm an investigative

1:39

reporter. Kyle and I talk

1:41

all the time about the strange things we come across. But

1:44

nothing was quite as strange as what we

1:46

found in Varnam Town, North Carolina. There's

1:49

crooked cops, brother against brother. Everyone's got

1:51

a story to tell, but does the

1:53

truth even exist? Welcome

1:56

to Varnam Town. wherever

2:00

you listen to podcasts. Hello

2:38

everyone and welcome to episode 351 of the

2:40

True Crime All the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm

2:42

Mike Ferguson and with me as always is

2:45

my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby,

2:47

how are you? Hey, I'm doing good. How

2:49

about yourself? Doing very well. Good. It's

2:52

Valentine's Day week. Yes.

2:55

Love is in the air. Something's in

2:57

the air. Something is. I

2:59

thought it was love. You might think it's something else.

3:02

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon

3:04

shout outs. We had Matt Ford. Hey

3:07

Matt. Tamara Suantak. Ah, thank you

3:09

Suantak. The Marx Brothers. What's going on, Marx?

3:11

Cynthia Morris. Hey, Cynthia. Tamara

3:13

Winchester. What's up, and then Tamara. Lisa.

3:16

Hey, there's Lisa. Sonya

3:18

Bellomini. Ah, the

3:20

Bellomini. Adrian Sunbe. Hey, thanks Adrian.

3:23

Sue T. Good

3:26

old Sue. Tammy Boone. There's Boone.

3:28

Jan. Hey Jan. Megan.

3:31

Hey Megan. Susan Dew. What's

3:33

up Dew? And Lisa Boyk. Hey Lisa. Yeah,

3:36

so we appreciate the new support. And then

3:38

if we go back into the vault. This

3:42

week we selected Mitch Lone. Hey, thanks

3:44

Mitch from the firm. Yeah, been with

3:46

us a long time. We also had

3:48

some great PayPal donations from Dana Abrams.

3:51

What's going on Dana? And Deanna Johnson.

3:53

Hey, thanks Deanna. So thanks

3:55

to everyone who helps out the show. Right

3:58

now we have an episode out. We'll be right back. out on

4:00

TCAT, it's on the broken

4:03

arrow murders. Robert and Michael

4:05

Bever killed five members of

4:07

their family in 2015 in

4:11

broken arrow, Oklahoma. Little

4:14

rough. It's a very brutal episode

4:16

when it comes to the details

4:18

of what these two eldest

4:22

sons of the family did to their

4:24

parents and their siblings.

4:27

And it's hard to sugar coat. Absolutely.

4:30

And it's the reasons why they said

4:32

they did it. Yeah. That,

4:35

that are also kind of, you know, mind

4:37

blown. Still shaking my head from it. Yeah.

4:39

All right, buddy. Are you ready to get

4:42

into this episode of true crime all the

4:44

time on salt? I'm ready. We're talking about

4:46

the disappearance of Ralisha rut. Eight

4:49

year old Ralisha rut went missing

4:51

from a homeless shelter in

4:54

Washington, DC on March

4:56

1st, 2014, in

4:58

the months leading up to her disappearance. She

5:01

befriended a male staff member

5:03

named Khalil Tatum, who was

5:05

known to interact with young

5:07

girls living at the shelter.

5:10

After Ralisha's disappearance, Tatum's

5:12

wife was found shot

5:14

to death in a motel

5:16

room. Days later, he was

5:19

found dead from a self-inflicted

5:21

gunshot wound in a city park.

5:24

Ralisha rut is still missing almost

5:27

10 years later. So,

5:29

you know, this is an unsolved

5:32

disappearance, but we

5:34

also have a murder

5:37

and what it appears

5:39

to be a suicide. Yeah. Just

5:41

bad stuff all the way around. And when

5:44

you hear that this guy Tatum was

5:46

known to interact with young girls

5:49

living at the shelter, that

5:51

statement alone kind of gave

5:53

me the the creepy crawlies because

5:56

the word interact, I

5:59

think is a. euphemism definitely gives

6:01

you concerns. Ralisha Rudd

6:03

was born on October 29th, 2005. She

6:07

was eight years old when she went

6:09

missing. She lived with her mother,

6:12

Shemeika Young and her two

6:14

younger brothers. At the

6:16

time of Ralisha's disappearance, her

6:19

mother was in a relationship with a

6:21

man named Antonio Wheeler, who was

6:23

the father of the two younger boys. Ralisha

6:26

also has an older brother. Their

6:29

father is Irving Rudd. Irving

6:31

Rudd filed for sole custody of his

6:34

children in 2012, but was

6:37

only allowed visitation. According

6:39

to the Charlie Project, he was

6:41

convicted of involuntary manslaughter in 1992

6:43

and was sentenced to 15 years

6:45

in prison. The

6:48

victim was his 17 month

6:50

old daughter. He was released

6:52

in 2002. That's

6:56

alarming. It's concerning, no

6:58

doubt. And my

7:01

thought is it definitely played

7:03

a role when in 2012 he went to

7:05

file for

7:08

sole custody of his children. My

7:10

thought is if you've got an

7:13

involuntary manslaughter conviction

7:15

on your record, going to be tough

7:18

to get sole custody. Yeah. I

7:20

think they're definitely going to scrutinize

7:22

that heavily. Yeah. Yeah.

7:24

My thoughts as well. Shemika

7:26

Young lived in homeless shelters as

7:29

a young girl. She

7:31

entered foster care at the age

7:33

of six and moved often. According

7:35

to the Charlie Project, she

7:38

was diagnosed with a mild

7:40

mental disability and spent

7:42

time in psychiatric residential treatment

7:45

as an adolescent. Ralisha was

7:47

born when she was 19 years old. Some

7:51

of Shemika's Facebook posts reflect her

7:53

thoughts on her difficult life. One

7:55

post from 2012 reads per the

7:57

Washington. post.

8:00

Sometimes I wish my mother didn't have

8:02

me and sometimes I wonder

8:04

how many people want to see me

8:07

dead and sometimes I wonder

8:09

why I have kids and

8:11

sometimes I wonder why the world is the

8:13

way it is. I wonder who

8:16

I am. Well think

8:18

about her life. I mean

8:20

living in and out of

8:22

homeless shelters since she was six

8:24

years old and her the foster

8:27

care system not the easiest

8:29

life. No not at all. I mean

8:31

some of these posts though

8:34

I think if you saw a friend

8:37

make these you'd be

8:39

concerned. Now some of these are just questions

8:41

that we all have. Why is the

8:43

world the way it is? I ask that question

8:46

all the time. Every time we record I ask

8:48

that question. Who am I? I ask

8:50

that question sometimes. You ask me

8:53

who I am. Well that's just because

8:55

my memory is fading. Oh yeah. After Ralisha

8:58

was born her family moved

9:00

into an apartment complex in

9:02

Washington DC where gang members

9:05

were known to live. There was

9:07

once a shooting at the complex

9:09

where seven people were injured. They

9:11

moved out in 2007. The Washington Post

9:13

obtained files

9:16

showing at least three complaints

9:18

about the children to

9:20

the Child and Family Services Agency.

9:23

The complaints against Shemeika were

9:25

eventually dropped. She didn't

9:27

lose custody of any of

9:29

her children until after Ralisha

9:31

went missing. So you know

9:33

when I said that the father would have

9:35

a hard time getting sole

9:38

custody with this involuntary manslaughter

9:41

charge on his record I

9:43

still believe that's true. What I

9:45

probably should have added though is that

9:47

you know if the mother is

9:49

going through a lot herself

9:52

or is in the

9:54

drugs or you know there could be a reason

9:56

why maybe he would make a better parent.

10:00

I didn't say that and

10:02

I'm not saying that it's

10:04

true in this case. I'm just saying

10:06

it could be. Yeah, I think it's

10:08

a, it's a tough job to have

10:10

to determine what parent

10:13

would be best for the child

10:15

who can provide the stability a

10:18

child needs, who can give

10:21

the shelter, the, the food,

10:23

the, you know, uh, all

10:26

these different factors that children's

10:29

services feel like a kid needs

10:31

to survive in this, this

10:33

world. And I think that could be kind of

10:35

tough sometimes. Yeah, I think sometimes it

10:37

could be tough because both parents

10:39

are doing very well. It

10:41

could be tough because both

10:43

parents are not doing great.

10:45

Yeah. Which one's not

10:47

doing great more. That

10:50

makes sense. No, but I, I understand what you're

10:52

getting at. And then sometimes I think the

10:55

question is very easily answered.

10:58

One parent is doing way better

11:00

than the other. And when I

11:03

say doing better, I don't just mean

11:05

making more money. I mean, you know,

11:07

stability in their life and, you know,

11:09

kind of all of that. But

11:12

I still agree with you that that

11:14

cannot be an easy job.

11:17

So going back to these

11:19

complaints, the first complaint was filed in

11:21

July, 2007. A

11:24

social worker believed, Relisha showed

11:26

signs of physical abuse, but

11:29

authorities were unable to determine how

11:31

the injuries occurred. And

11:33

again, I think some of these can be very

11:35

tough as well. Remember Gibbs back

11:37

to when your kids were young.

11:40

I mean, weren't they always falling

11:42

down? They had bruises and

11:44

now I get it. There

11:46

are differences between a bruised

11:51

leg, knee, shin,

11:53

something like that. Versus some

11:56

real serious signs of abuse. Sure. So

11:58

I don't know. to what

12:01

level designs roads.

12:05

What I am saying is that kids fall

12:07

down a lot. They run into things. They

12:09

play hard. And it doesn't always

12:12

mean abuse. No, it doesn't always mean that. But

12:14

I also don't think you can dismiss

12:17

them all out of hand

12:19

and say, ah, you know, that, that

12:21

was just kids being kids. Sometimes

12:24

it is abuse. Yeah. Because sometimes that's

12:26

the alibi, the cover, because that's what

12:28

these individuals use in April,

12:31

2010. A social

12:33

worker noted that one of

12:35

Relicia's siblings was not receiving

12:37

proper medical attention after

12:39

a surgery and the family

12:41

was living in what was

12:43

deemed environmentally unsafe conditions. Okay.

12:46

That's casting a pretty broad net. It

12:49

really is, but it doesn't sound good. At

12:51

least five of Shemeika Young's

12:53

former landlords filed cases against her

12:56

for breach of contract. After

12:58

their last eviction, the family moved

13:00

into a motel for three months.

13:02

At one point they were living

13:04

with Shemeika's sister, Ashley Young. She

13:07

told them they can no longer

13:09

live with her because she was

13:11

on a government housing subsidy and

13:14

this strained her relationship with Shemeika.

13:17

In 2012, Shemeika and the

13:19

children moved into the DC

13:21

shelter for families, which was

13:23

the former DC general hospital.

13:26

It was the largest shelter in

13:28

DC and housed hundreds of families

13:30

and up to 600 children at

13:33

one point. You know, eventually if

13:35

you have nowhere else to go, this is

13:37

where you're going to find yourself before you

13:39

find yourself on the streets. So thank goodness

13:41

a place like this is available, but also

13:43

how sad that you have

13:45

600 kids at

13:48

one point living in this facility. You're

13:50

right on both things.

13:53

I mean, luckily there are some of

13:55

these types of shelters for

13:58

people when they need them, but. Man,

14:00

600 kids at one point. That's

14:03

scary. But I also think as

14:06

bad as some of this stuff sounds,

14:08

and I'm not trying to make it

14:11

sound bad, it's factual,

14:14

it is painting a picture of

14:16

how tough life was, I

14:18

think for the family. Residents at

14:20

the shelter complained about heating

14:23

outages, mice, bed bugs, other

14:26

insects, and even raccoons. Relicia

14:29

told her relatives the shelter

14:31

was infested and that the food

14:33

wasn't good. Well, I think

14:35

sometimes shelters are just brick and mortar. I

14:38

think other shelters offer more. I

14:41

think it depends on the funding and

14:43

how much money they have to put

14:46

towards it. I don't know the scenario

14:48

here. No, but if you

14:50

think about trying to feed that

14:53

many people, if there were 600 children at

14:55

one point, how many people were there in

14:57

total? Having to feed

14:59

them three times a day,

15:01

let's say, that's a lot of

15:03

food. And so I'm

15:06

sure it wasn't the best that

15:08

you could buy. They gotta take

15:10

the dollars that they have, the

15:14

budget, stretch that food as far as

15:16

it'll go. I think what

15:18

was known for sure was that Relicia

15:20

wanted to be away from the shelter

15:23

as much as possible. She

15:25

sometimes faked asthma attacks. So that

15:27

she could stay at relatives' homes.

15:30

Other adults said, Relicia

15:33

came to school hungry with dirty clothes

15:35

and that she didn't want to leave.

15:37

And sadly, this is something that

15:40

my wife has experienced throughout the years.

15:42

She's been teaching for over 20 years.

15:46

I can't tell you the number

15:48

of winter coats that we've

15:51

gone out and bought. Because

15:55

second, third, fourth graders are coming

15:57

to school in the dead

15:59

of winter. her with no coat on. Yeah.

16:02

And my wife, she ain't having it. No.

16:05

So we've got to go to Burlington

16:07

or wherever and buy a bunch

16:09

of coats. And I have no problem

16:11

with that. It makes me feel good,

16:14

but I feel for some of

16:16

these kids, and I know she does as well. There's

16:18

been so many of them that

16:20

she's just wanted to bring home with her because

16:24

she feels horrible, malicious

16:26

teachers described her as a

16:28

quiet and well-behaved student. She

16:30

loved art and her mother said she wanted

16:33

to be both a model and a basketball

16:36

player. One girl who lived

16:38

at the DC shelter said that Ralisha

16:40

always gave her hugs in the morning,

16:42

which made her smile and feel better.

16:45

That's nice. You know, maybe actually puts a smile on

16:47

my face. It does. You know,

16:49

here is a, is a well-behaved student.

16:52

She has goals and aspirations.

16:55

It sounds like she was

16:58

treating others in

17:00

a very respectful, loving

17:03

way. Just the kind

17:05

of thing that you would hope that

17:08

a kid would do. Now it's not her

17:10

fault that, you know, the

17:12

family is struggling. I'm sure if she

17:14

was old enough, she'd probably go down to the Burger

17:16

King and get a job to help out. Seems

17:19

like the type of person that, that

17:21

she was, but you know, she's, she's

17:23

young. And I don't want anybody to

17:25

take this the wrong way. I'm not blaming all

17:28

of this on Shemeika either. Right.

17:31

People get in to bad

17:33

spots and sometimes it can be

17:35

very tough to get out. Now,

17:37

a lot of us have family who

17:40

kind of step up, help us out,

17:42

let us live with them for periods

17:45

of time till we, you know, get back

17:47

on our feet. If

17:49

you don't have that, then it

17:51

can be even tougher. Shannon

17:54

Smith, a cheerleading coach who helped

17:56

Relish at school told the Washington

17:58

Post. failed Ralisha.

18:01

I believe everybody failed that girl,

18:04

the school, the system, the doctors,

18:06

the police, and everybody else that

18:08

should have had something to do

18:11

with her. And that

18:13

to me is a very powerful

18:16

statement, but it's one you

18:18

normally hear after something bad happens.

18:22

And I'm sure there maybe are people who are saying

18:24

it as it's going on,

18:26

but normally we see it

18:28

come out in the media after someone

18:31

is murdered or someone disappears. You

18:34

know, they always say it takes a village to raise a

18:36

kid. And I think in this case, she's

18:38

saying the village failed. Yeah, I

18:40

think that's exactly what she's saying. Shannon

18:43

Smith told the Washington Post that

18:45

she once returned late from chaperoning

18:47

a school trip and found

18:50

Ralisha and one of her brothers still

18:52

waiting at school for a ride. It

18:55

was not uncommon for them to wait

18:57

for their ride for a long time,

18:59

but this was unusually late. She

19:01

claimed that she called Shemeika Young and

19:03

offered to drive the children home. Shemeika

19:06

didn't give an address and she hung

19:08

up on her. Instead, she

19:11

called the school and told the children to

19:13

leave on foot. Not really putting

19:15

a mom in a great light. No, no,

19:18

again, I'm trying not to be too tough

19:22

on this woman because it does

19:24

sound like she had some issues

19:26

of her own growing up for sure.

19:28

And then no doubt

19:31

she's having trouble at

19:33

this point in her life. But to

19:35

hang up on this teacher who's offering

19:38

to bring the kids home and

19:41

instead say, just walk home,

19:43

that doesn't seem like a great decision. Now,

19:47

maybe she didn't know this teacher at all. Maybe

19:49

she hadn't been to parent teacher night, but would

19:51

you rather take your chances with a

19:53

teacher who works at the school,

19:56

if you can verify that, or

19:58

your kids walking home? She didn't want

20:00

the teacher to see where they live. That that's possible

20:02

as well. It's actually a very good point.

20:05

According to the Washington post,

20:08

the following events could not be

20:10

corroborated with the police. Shannon

20:12

Smith and a school security guard told

20:14

the post that the children

20:16

were found late at night at a

20:19

laundromat and the Child and

20:21

Family Services Agency was notified. Shemeika's

20:24

mother denied this allegation and

20:26

said that Shemeika often went

20:28

hungry, just so her kids could eat.

20:31

Yeah, there's a mom. And that's probably true. Shemeika

20:34

told the Washington post, think

20:36

what you want to think. Only God

20:38

knows the truth. Another complaint

20:40

against Shemeika was filed in November,

20:43

2013. A

20:45

social worker reported that one of the boys was

20:47

thrown to the ground and slapped

20:49

until his lip bled. The

20:52

police got conflicting stories about who

20:54

hit him and no charges were

20:56

filed. Relatives later said

20:58

the reports were exaggerated or false.

21:01

Well, I also think once you're on that radar,

21:04

you could have little instances

21:07

that probably would not be an

21:10

issue, become an issue. You

21:12

mean people filing reports or

21:15

complaints about stuff that

21:17

they otherwise wouldn't? Yeah. Yeah.

21:19

Okay. Yeah. I get what you're saying about

21:21

that. Ralisha and her family lived

21:23

at the shelter for over a year. During

21:26

that time, they befriended 51

21:28

year old Khalil Malik Tatum,

21:30

who worked as a janitor.

21:33

Tatum was hired by the

21:35

community partnership for the prevention

21:37

of homelessness, a nonprofit

21:39

that operated the shelter and

21:41

other programs for homeless people

21:44

in Washington, DC. Khalil

21:46

Tatum offered Ralisha gifts,

21:49

some of which were expensive, such

21:51

as a tablet. He

21:54

took her out of the shelter for

21:56

outings like manicures, the mall, or the

21:58

movies. He also took her out of the shelter. shelters

22:00

for sleepovers at his home.

22:03

I have that little thing in my

22:06

stomach that's saying that just doesn't

22:08

sound right. No, it doesn't sound

22:10

right at all. Now, if

22:12

he bought her a tablet, could

22:14

you make the argument that, you know,

22:17

this is just a man trying to

22:19

do something nice? Yeah, I guess you

22:21

could. When you get

22:23

into the area of them

22:26

going out to, you

22:28

know, get a manicure, him

22:31

taking her to the mall, to

22:33

the movies by himself, and

22:35

then especially to his home for

22:37

sleepover, those are

22:40

all getting into the area of just

22:42

really crossing the line in my opinion,

22:45

because I kind of go back to, well,

22:47

we're not going to let the teacher bring

22:50

the kids home in her car,

22:53

but we're going to let this 51 year old man

22:56

take Ralisha out to

22:58

all these different places alone and allow

23:01

her to sleep over at

23:03

his house. I'm struggling with

23:05

that. Ralisha was close

23:08

to Tatum and called her God

23:10

Daddy. Sources indicate that she viewed

23:12

her time with Tatum as

23:14

an escape from the shelter. And

23:17

I'm sure that it was, right? She made

23:19

no bones about it. She

23:21

did not like that shelter. Well,

23:23

I'm sure she was happy to go to the

23:25

mall and get manicures and be

23:28

out of that shelter and having money

23:31

spent on her and being doted on.

23:33

Yeah. I mean, who doesn't like that?

23:36

But she's a, she's a kid.

23:38

She's going to like that. Kids

23:41

like gifts, presents, you

23:43

know, it's the parent's job

23:46

to kind of say, what's acceptable,

23:49

right? And where,

23:51

you know, does the line get drawn?

23:54

Now you can make an argument

23:56

that Shemekka felt comfortable with

23:58

this Tatum guy. Sure. and

24:01

was okay with him taking

24:03

her to the mall. Now, I

24:05

don't care how comfortable you are, I'm

24:08

not okay with the sleepover. I mean,

24:10

lifelong family friend, yeah. A

24:13

janitor that I just met in

24:15

the last few months, 51

24:18

years old, no. I can't

24:20

see it. And only taking her, not the

24:22

other kids. Yes. And why

24:24

is that, right? You gotta ask yourself

24:26

that question. True crime all

24:29

the time unsolved is brought to you

24:31

by progressive insurance. Let's face it, sometimes

24:33

multitasking can be overwhelming. Like when your

24:35

favorite podcast is playing and the person

24:37

next to you is talking and your

24:39

car fan is blasting. All while you're

24:42

trying to find the perfect parking spot.

24:44

But then again, sometimes multitasking is easy.

24:46

Like quoting with progressive insurance. They do

24:48

the hard work of comparing rates so

24:50

you can find a great rate that

24:53

works for you. Even if it's not

24:55

with them. Give their nifty comparison tool

24:57

a try and you might just find

24:59

getting the rate and coverage you deserve

25:01

is easy. All you need to do

25:04

is visit progressive's website to get a

25:06

quote with all the coverages you want.

25:08

Like comprehensive and collision coverage or personal

25:10

injury protection. Then you'll see progressive's direct

25:12

rate and their tool will provide options

25:15

from other companies all lined up and

25:17

ready to compare. So it's simple to

25:19

choose the rate and coverages you like.

25:21

Press play on comparing auto rates. Quote

25:23

at progressive.com to join the over 28

25:26

million drivers who trust progressive. Progressive casualty

25:28

insurance company and affiliates. Comparison rates not

25:30

available in all states or situations. Prices

25:32

vary based on how you buy. Tatum

25:36

was known for having contact with other

25:38

young girls at the shelter. But

25:41

not young boys. He gave other

25:43

girls money and expensive

25:45

gifts. I mean it has

25:47

to be somewhat of a flag or should have

25:50

been somewhat of a flag to

25:52

the people managing this place. Well

25:54

for me it depends on who

25:56

knew and what did they know.

25:58

Right, what did management. know, what

26:01

did Shemekah know, because

26:03

it was said that this was in violation

26:06

of the shelter's no fraternization

26:08

rule. However, it was also

26:10

said this rule was not strictly enforced

26:13

at the shelter. Several mothers told

26:15

the Washington Post that Tatum offered

26:18

their daughter's money in

26:20

the view of other staff members.

26:22

So it doesn't sound like it was a

26:24

big secret, meaning somebody

26:27

there knew or should

26:30

have known. But turned the blind

26:33

eye to it? Yes. Or never

26:35

escalated it up. That

26:37

could be as well. Some mothers who

26:39

lived at the shelter said they didn't trust

26:42

the staff because some of

26:44

them were known to have sex

26:46

with young female residents. Well,

26:48

now you're in the area of there's

26:51

multiple people doing things

26:53

that they shouldn't be doing. So

26:56

when you say turn a blind eye,

26:58

yes, they're going to turn a blind eye

27:01

to what Tatum's doing if some

27:03

of these other people are doing the same exact

27:05

thing. Yeah, these individuals are

27:07

taking advantage of these younger

27:09

females in their current situation,

27:12

in their parents' current situation,

27:15

and no one's keeping it in check. Relicious

27:17

relatives didn't question her

27:20

relationship with Tatum. Antonio

27:22

Wheeler, Relicious's stepfather,

27:25

told the Post he never got a

27:27

bad bite from Tatum. He always

27:30

turned Relicious to her mother

27:32

when he was supposed to. Relicious often

27:35

asked her relatives to call Tatum when

27:37

she couldn't spend time with him. So

27:39

that does answer something.

27:42

Now, whether you think that it

27:45

answers them correctly, that's a different

27:47

question. I get it, they didn't

27:49

get bad vibes from him, but should they

27:51

have? Yeah,

27:56

I mean, he's not the child's uncle.

28:00

relation whatsoever. He's just somebody that

28:02

worked at the shelter, that

28:04

befriended her, and

28:06

now for whatever reason, the

28:09

mom, the family is okay with her going

28:12

over to his place. And I don't

28:14

know, we don't know. Maybe

28:16

the mom went over to the place sometimes as well.

28:19

Maybe she scouted it out. Maybe,

28:22

you know, that's how she felt okay with it. But

28:26

no matter what we say, it doesn't

28:29

seem to make sense. It

28:32

really doesn't. I mean, you just have to ask yourself,

28:34

you know, especially when you find out that

28:37

he's in the habit of giving other young

28:40

women, girls. Well,

28:42

we know that, but we don't

28:44

know if her

28:47

family knew that. Right. And I'm

28:49

thinking if they did know that, at least I'm

28:51

hoping if they knew that at the time, that

28:53

that probably would have made a different, they would

28:55

have made a different decision. I just have a

28:57

feeling there's, you know, a ton

29:00

of listeners yelling, no way

29:02

would I ever, you know, let

29:04

my daughter go spend the night. Your eight-year-old

29:07

daughter spent the night at a 50-some-year-old man's

29:09

house? No. But I'm trying

29:11

to balance that out with

29:13

not coming down too hard on

29:15

Shemeika because I'm not in her

29:18

shoes. Absolutely. Neither one of

29:20

us have ever lived in a shelter. We

29:22

don't know what that's like. And we don't

29:24

know if some opportunity came

29:26

up with somebody that seemed really

29:29

nice that your kids could get

29:31

out of the shelter for the night. Maybe

29:33

you'd be like, you know, at least they're getting out of

29:35

the shelter. Maybe they're going to be able to take a

29:38

bath, a shower, and sleep

29:40

in a place that has heat. Maybe get a good

29:43

sandwich or something to eat. Maybe

29:45

that would change your mind. You know, but

29:47

we're not, like you said, we're not in her shoes. Khalil

29:50

Tatum was a convicted felon. He

29:53

was incarcerated from 1993 to 2003 and from 2004 to 2003.

30:00

2011 for burglary larceny

30:02

and breaking in inner

30:05

so troubled past Yeah troubled

30:07

past but the one

30:10

thing I did notice was that none of

30:12

those crimes were sexual in

30:14

nature right doesn't make it

30:17

right that he did those things a 2012

30:20

report found that the community partnership

30:23

for the prevention of homelessness Employed

30:26

people who had not undergone

30:28

criminal background checks or drug

30:30

and alcohol testing as required

30:33

by contract with the city of

30:35

Washington DC The community

30:37

partnership acknowledged that it retained

30:39

six employees with criminal convictions

30:42

When it took over the contract to run

30:44

the shelter, okay? This seems like

30:47

a problem to me if

30:49

you're required to do background

30:51

checks and test for drugs and

30:53

alcohol According to the

30:55

contract you have with the city and

30:58

you're not following that that

31:00

is a problem Yeah, I think

31:02

you know where are the QC checks right

31:05

who's coming in to? review

31:07

the paperwork and making sure

31:10

that the Partnership is doing what

31:12

they're supposed to add a DC

31:14

Council committee hearing sue marshall the

31:16

executive director of the community partnership

31:19

Acknowledge that the shelter fired at

31:21

least four employees for

31:23

inappropriate relationships with residents

31:26

Disturbing but at least they

31:28

were fired well Yeah, this was gonna say

31:31

disturbing that they had to fire so many

31:33

but at least they they acted upon those

31:35

four Tatum and his wife

31:37

Andrea lived in an apartment in the city.

31:40

They were married for 24 years During

31:43

the marriage Andrea had a relationship

31:45

with a man named Gerald Wills

31:48

They had known each other for 30 years and

31:51

he helped take care of Andrea when her

31:53

husband was in prison They lived in

31:55

a car together for four years when they

31:57

were both struggling with drug addiction He

31:59

would was described as her other

32:02

husband. In the final

32:04

decade of her life, according to

32:06

wills, Andrea was sober and enjoyed

32:08

spending time with her grandchildren. Andrea

32:11

also volunteered with her church and

32:13

helped the homeless community. So,

32:15

I mean, I think that provides a

32:17

little bit of insight of maybe why

32:20

the mom was okay with

32:22

Ralisha going to the apartment

32:24

and staying over, because maybe she knew

32:27

Andrea was going to be there and knowing

32:29

that Andrea, you know, had

32:32

grandkids and, you know,

32:34

was a church going person and helped

32:37

out with the shelter, maybe that gave

32:39

her the security that

32:41

she needed. Yeah, it's

32:44

possible. Neighbors described the

32:46

Tatum's as quiet, normal people.

32:49

According to one neighbor, they wanted to

32:51

retire in 10 years and spend their

32:53

time helping families in need and

32:56

Khalil had been mentoring young men in

32:58

the neighborhood. Gerald will said

33:01

he never saw Ralisha with

33:03

the Tatum's, but Andrea once

33:06

mentioned that she was at her

33:08

house. Wills believes that

33:10

Andrea discovered something and

33:12

was going to go to the police and

33:15

that was why she was killed. And

33:17

we mentioned it upfront that

33:20

Tatum's wife was

33:22

found dead. We'll, we'll talk about that

33:24

more in detail later in the episode.

33:26

Khalil Tatum filed for divorce in

33:29

February, 2014. The

33:32

separation was listed as mutual

33:34

and voluntary. Andrea's daughter

33:36

would later tell the police that

33:38

she also considered leaving him. Later

33:41

that month on February 26th,

33:44

Shemeika Young asked Tatum to

33:46

take Ralisha away from the shelter. She

33:49

would later say she wanted her

33:51

to get out of the shelter because

33:54

it was a dirty and dangerous environment

33:56

with no playground. And I think

33:58

this is going back to. you know, some

34:00

of the things you've talked about, Gibbs,

34:02

is it possible that Shemeika

34:06

wanted Ralisha to,

34:09

you know, experience some better things

34:11

than what was, you know, they're

34:13

available in the shelter and

34:15

it sounds like that was part of

34:17

it. Yeah. Maybe she felt like her

34:20

daughter would thrive outside of the shelter.

34:23

That day, Tatum and Ralisha

34:26

were captured on camera, walking

34:28

down the hallway at

34:30

the Holiday Inn Express in

34:33

Northeast DC. February 26 also

34:36

marked Ralisha's fifth unexcused

34:39

absence from Payne Elementary School.

34:41

The staff scheduled a parent teacher

34:44

conference for March 5th. On

34:46

March 1st, Ralisha was

34:48

captured on camera walking past the fountain

34:51

in front of the day's inn on New

34:53

York Avenue, which is across the

34:55

street from the Holiday Inn Express, where

34:57

she was seen on February 26. Ralisha

35:01

and Tatum were captured walking through

35:03

the lobby into a room. It's

35:06

not known if Ralisha left

35:08

the day's inn hotel alive.

35:11

And I can't imagine this is

35:13

what Shemeika had

35:16

in mind. No. When she

35:18

asked Tatum to take Ralisha

35:20

and just get her out of the shelter.

35:24

A 51 year old man taking an

35:26

eight year old girl who is of no

35:29

relation to him to a hotel doesn't

35:32

look real great. After

35:34

Ralisha was last seen with Tatum

35:36

on March 1st, he continued going

35:39

to work and was seen around

35:41

DC between March 2nd and March

35:43

20th, but Ralisha was

35:45

not with him any of those times.

35:48

Shemeika attended the parent teacher conference

35:50

on March 5th and

35:52

was informed about support services to

35:55

make sure that her daughter came to

35:57

school. Many of Ralisha's

36:00

as previous absences were excused

36:02

because Shemeika told the school

36:04

she was being cared for

36:06

by Dr. Tatum. Dr.

36:08

Tatum? Is that like the same thing

36:11

as me calling me Dr. Gibby

36:13

because of that thing I have on my wall?

36:16

Yeah. That I got in the mail. I

36:18

think you've called yourself

36:20

doctor, lawyer, PhD. PhD?

36:24

I've heard you refer to yourself as many

36:27

things that I know not to be true.

36:30

Some initial reports indicated Ralisha

36:32

attended school on March 5th

36:35

and March 7th, but the police

36:37

later said the last confirmed sighting

36:39

occurred on March 1st. On

36:42

March 10th, school officials called

36:44

Khalil Tatum, believing he was

36:46

a doctor, and told him

36:49

he had to give medical

36:51

documentation for Ralisha's continued absences

36:53

from school. He said

36:55

he was treating her for neurological problems

36:58

and would discharge her by the end

37:00

of the next week. Just

37:02

going along with the lie. I mean, this

37:04

is like DiCaprio and catch me if you

37:06

can. Ralisha accumulated

37:09

five more unexcused absences,

37:11

but her brothers continued

37:13

attending school. March

37:16

13th marked her 10th

37:18

unexcused absence. The school

37:20

was required by law to

37:22

call the Children and Family

37:24

Services Agency to report educational

37:26

neglect. As reported by

37:28

the Washington Post, a social

37:30

worker noted that Ralisha's grandmother

37:33

said she was ill and

37:35

in the care of Tatum. I'm

37:38

just, I'm sorry, I'm trying to figure out

37:41

why so much trust is

37:43

given to this man, Tatum, to

37:46

care for your daughter,

37:48

your granddaughter, your niece. What

37:51

was so special about him that

37:53

everybody put their trust in to

37:56

him? Well, and we've tried to give, you

37:58

know, a little bit of benefit. of the

38:00

doubt, right, throughout the episode, but

38:03

it gets harder and harder to do so.

38:06

So, you know, from Shemeika's

38:08

own statement, you know, she, she

38:11

wanted Relicia to

38:13

go with Tatum, to

38:15

get out of the shelter

38:18

because it was nasty. Okay. I

38:20

understand that point that she was

38:23

making, but for how long

38:25

without coming back, you know, if

38:27

you say for a couple of

38:29

hours, three, you know, you're going

38:31

to the mall. I wasn't even

38:33

crazy about that, but let's just say that

38:35

was it five, 10 days, 13 days

38:39

later, and she hasn't come

38:42

back. You're not going to go

38:44

see her. Yeah. Something is, it's

38:46

just not right here. I'm

38:48

really struggling. You know, and I'm

38:50

thinking, man, this, this Tatum guy, Dr.

38:53

Tatum, I think was maybe

38:56

really good at snowing

38:58

these individuals. Well, as

39:01

most of these types of

39:03

people are, they're good con

39:05

men. Yeah. I think back to

39:08

the Jan Broberg

39:10

case and the

39:12

movie and the documentary, you know,

39:15

how good of a con man

39:17

was that guy to

39:19

be able to manipulate her

39:21

family into getting as close

39:23

to her as he did. I

39:26

remember that guy. He really took that family on a

39:28

long ride. Yeah. And it was like,

39:30

he had an answer for everything, right? That's, that's

39:33

how these guys operate. Yeah. The

39:35

CFSA didn't consider this a

39:37

high priority case at

39:40

that point. It wasn't until March

39:42

19th that a social worker called Tatum

39:45

to arrange a meeting later that day, Ralisha

39:48

had missed over 30 days

39:50

of school by this point, but

39:52

the majority of those days were

39:54

excused absences. Tatum told the

39:57

social worker to meet him at the

39:59

DC shelter. He left work early

40:01

that day and he wasn't

40:03

there when the social worker arrived.

40:06

And it was at that point that the

40:08

social worker learned that Tatum was not a

40:10

doctor. She called the police

40:13

and the child abuse hotline. So

40:15

I think this guy knew, right?

40:19

He set up this meeting. He had

40:21

no intentions of being there because

40:23

how was he going to validate

40:26

the fact that he was this

40:28

Dr. Tatum? He couldn't. Right. The

40:31

police questioned Shemeika about

40:33

her daughter's whereabouts. She said

40:36

that Ralisha and Dr. Tatum went

40:38

to a medical conference in Atlanta

40:41

on March 8th, and she

40:43

didn't know when they would be back. She

40:45

claimed she last spoke to her daughter

40:47

on March 17th. Medical

40:50

conference. So let me ask

40:52

you this question. If this guy

40:54

is a doctor who's attending

40:58

medical conferences, why

41:00

is he doing janitorial work at

41:03

the shelter? Yeah, it doesn't make any

41:05

sense. You know, I mean, look, nothing

41:07

against doing janitorial work. Well,

41:09

I've done that, but you

41:11

wouldn't be doing that if you had a

41:14

thriving medical practice. It just doesn't line

41:17

up. No. If you're going over there

41:19

just to volunteer your time, that's one

41:21

thing. But it would be somewhere in

41:23

the area of medicine. Yeah, it wouldn't

41:26

be to clean up spills.

41:29

And then I think the other thing we have to talk about

41:31

is Shemeika saying she

41:33

spoke with Ralisha on the

41:35

17th. And

41:37

we said earlier, the last confirmed

41:40

sighting of her was on the first.

41:42

That's a long time. But if she

41:45

was going to a conference with

41:47

Dr. Tatum, supposedly on

41:49

the 8th, I don't know. Would you want to

41:51

see your kid before she left town? Yeah.

41:55

I mean, yeah, I'm just there's so

41:57

many head scratchers here that

41:59

it. It's tough. It's really tough.

42:03

The police couldn't get in contact

42:05

with Tatum. All of

42:07

their calls went directly to voicemail. Well,

42:10

you know who Dr. Tatum doesn't

42:12

want to talk to besides the

42:14

social worker? The police. The

42:16

police. Yeah. They're going to

42:19

have some very difficult questions for him

42:21

that he's not going to be able

42:23

to answer easily. One of

42:25

Tatum's relatives went to his apartment to

42:28

see if Ralisha was there, but

42:30

no one was home. Shemeika didn't

42:33

want to file a police report

42:35

because she said Ralisha

42:37

was safe. But how does she

42:39

know that? I don't know other than

42:42

she's truly putting so

42:45

much faith in

42:47

Khalil Tatum. According to

42:49

the Washington Post, Shemeika

42:51

gave various explanations for

42:54

Ralisha's absences and said

42:56

she was with her

42:58

grandmother. When Shemeika was

43:00

interviewed by a social worker,

43:02

she said Tatum was Ralisha's

43:04

godfather. She said she met

43:06

with Tatum and asked him to

43:08

return Ralisha, but he did not.

43:11

So now it's coming out

43:13

that she gave a number of

43:15

different versions. And like we

43:17

always say, that never makes you

43:20

look good when your stories

43:23

don't stay consistent. And do you

43:25

do that because you're embarrassed?

43:28

Do you do this because of other

43:31

reasons? Yeah, I don't know that

43:33

it has to be nefarious. You know,

43:35

it could be that you

43:37

finally have figured out that maybe

43:39

you didn't do the right thing.

43:42

And now you're trying to make

43:45

yourself not look as bad. There

43:47

could be various reasons for that.

43:49

Within hours, Ralisha

43:52

was labeled a critically missing child,

43:54

which meant her case was of

43:56

the highest priority. Investigators believe Khalil

43:58

Tatum was a victim of the murder. little Tatum

44:00

shot his wife on the night

44:02

of March 19th or early

44:05

on March 20th of 2014. Andrea

44:09

Tatum was found dead in a room

44:11

at the Red Roof Inn in Oxen

44:13

Hill, Maryland on the morning of March

44:15

20th. There were no signs of

44:17

a struggle. A gun had been

44:19

placed behind her left ear. The

44:21

bullet went through her skull, brain,

44:23

and exited just in front

44:25

of her right ear. That's

44:28

a pretty grisly visual. It's

44:31

a disturbing picture. Andrea spoke

44:33

to her friend Edna Young at 6

44:35

p.m. on March 19th. She

44:38

said she was in bed for the

44:40

evening because she was going to babysit

44:42

her grandchildren the next day. However,

44:45

the Tatum's checked into the Red

44:47

Roof Inn in Oxen Hill at

44:49

10.04 p.m. on the 19th. Both

44:52

of their vehicles were parked outside.

44:55

They were with three other people, but

44:58

those individuals left after an hour and

45:00

a half. One of them

45:02

told investigators he returned at 5.40 a.m.

45:04

on the 20th to pick Tatum

45:06

up and saw Andrea lying on

45:08

the bed. But Tatum wouldn't let

45:11

him into the room. Well, it

45:13

sounds like there was a good reason why Tatum didn't want

45:15

him in the room. Yeah, most likely,

45:17

Andrea was dead by that point.

45:20

And I think we have to go back to, you know,

45:23

Khalil filing for divorce.

45:26

And we mentioned that, you know,

45:28

Andrea later died

45:31

and that it was thought that

45:33

she potentially knew something

45:35

and was going to go to the

45:37

police about it. Well, it's

45:40

pretty hard not to think that if that

45:42

was true, it had something

45:44

to do with religion. That's

45:47

the conclusion that you find yourself

45:49

headed to. but

46:00

neither Ralisha nor Khalil Tatum

46:02

were found at the motel.

46:05

The police issued two

46:07

Amber Alerts for Ralisha.

46:10

The first Amber Alert contained the

46:12

description of a white GMC truck

46:14

that Tatum used after leaving the

46:16

motel. It was found that same day.

46:19

It identified a man

46:21

named Ricky Sheridan-Liles, but

46:23

his name was not included in

46:25

the second Amber Alert because the

46:28

police didn't believe he was traveling

46:30

with Ralisha. On March

46:32

21, Khalil Tatum was charged

46:34

with the murder of his wife, Andrea.

46:37

The search expanded throughout the

46:39

East Coast on the 22nd. The

46:42

police discovered that on March 2, the

46:45

day after he was last seen

46:47

with Ralisha, Tatum purchased

46:50

a box of 42-gallon

46:52

trash bags, a shovel,

46:55

and a lot. It's

46:57

never good in a true crime

46:59

case if you come home

47:01

from the Home Depot with

47:04

big trash bags, a shovel,

47:07

and a lot. On March 25, 2014,

47:09

the FBI released a video

47:12

of Tatum and Ralisha walking

47:14

down the hallway of the

47:16

Holiday Inn on Bladensburg

47:18

Road, Northeast on February

47:20

26. On

47:22

the 27th, DC Police

47:25

Chief Kathy Lanier announced the

47:27

search had turned into a

47:29

recovery mission which indicated that

47:31

the police believed Ralisha was

47:33

dead. Sources familiar with the

47:35

case told The Washington Post that day

47:38

that a grand jury was

47:40

impaneled to investigate possible obstruction

47:43

charges against Shemeika

47:45

Young. It was probably

47:47

natural to wonder at

47:49

what point the police

47:51

were going to look at Shemeika. Not

47:54

so much maybe as the cause of

47:56

Ralisha's death. disappearance,

48:00

but for the multiple stories

48:03

she had told, not

48:05

really knowing where her daughter was.

48:07

Yes. Yeah. Some, some of those

48:09

things, you know, it was going

48:11

to happen at some point. Shemika

48:14

said she was cooperating and

48:16

believe she was unfairly portrayed

48:19

as a bad mother. And

48:21

I think people are probably

48:23

going to go both ways on that. There

48:26

are some people who are going to give her the

48:28

benefit of the doubt. There are some

48:30

people who are going to say with all

48:32

the facts known that the

48:34

actions she took were not

48:36

those of a good mother. I can

48:39

see people being on both sides of that fence.

48:42

Again, all we have is the

48:44

information that, you know, we could

48:46

uncover. There might be more that

48:48

would paint her in a, in a

48:50

different light on March 31st, the

48:53

police discovered Khalil Tatum's body in

48:55

a shed at the

48:57

Kenilworth park and aquatic gardens in

49:00

DC. Investigators had received

49:02

tips that they may

49:04

find Ralisha's grave

49:06

site there. Tatum shot himself

49:09

with the same gun used to kill

49:11

his wife. He'd been dead for about

49:13

36 hours, but

49:16

Ralisha was nowhere to be found. Investigators

49:18

did an extensive search of the

49:20

park, but called it off a

49:22

few days later in the

49:25

aftermath of her disappearance and

49:27

the deaths of Khalil and Andrea

49:29

Tatum, lawmakers in the

49:32

public criticized the child and

49:34

family services agency for failing

49:36

to act sooner and

49:38

for failing to remove Ralisha

49:41

and her siblings from their

49:43

home environment. Days after

49:45

Ralisha went missing, her

49:47

stepfather posted pictures on Facebook

49:50

showing a new cell phone, shoes,

49:53

and large stacks of money. This

49:55

led people to speculate that

49:58

she was sold into. child

50:00

sex trafficking. Washington DC

50:03

is considered a hub for

50:05

sex trafficking according to

50:07

Natalie Wilson from the Black

50:09

and Missing Foundation. I don't

50:12

understand why this guy is posting pictures of

50:14

a new cell phone, new shoes,

50:17

and a large stack of money if

50:19

they're at a shelter. You know

50:21

his kids are probably wanting

50:24

to eat some, well we know

50:26

they want to eat some better food, maybe

50:28

instead of buying those shoes and that

50:30

new phone and showing off that stack

50:33

of cash. Well I don't know

50:35

if he's showing it off or he

50:37

is putting it out there

50:40

as this all

50:42

came from Khalil

50:45

Tatum. But the timing doesn't look good

50:47

at all. No it does. I

50:49

mean you can see why people are

50:51

speculating that

50:54

she was possibly sold. Because

50:57

you're right if they're living in the shelter then

51:00

where are they getting all this stuff? Or

51:02

why are they getting this stuff?

51:04

It is maybe even the more

51:07

important question. Shemeika was investigated

51:09

by a grand jury. No

51:12

indictments were ever handed down.

51:14

Tatum's nephew Deshawn Tatum told The

51:16

Washington Post that his uncle loved

51:19

his wife with the utmost passion

51:21

and that if he killed her

51:23

it was due to the stress of

51:25

the police investigation. He said

51:27

if you're under so much stress

51:30

with everyone constantly saying you did

51:32

this you did that it's

51:34

going to make you turn crazy

51:36

pretty much. It's too much

51:38

stress on the mind. It's too

51:40

much stress on the heart. He

51:43

said about religious disappearance if anything my

51:45

uncle took care of that little girl.

51:47

It was like she was his own

51:49

daughter. In May 2014 Shemeika's

51:53

mother Melissa Young sought

51:55

a restraining order against her daughter

51:57

alleging that Shemeika Young.

52:00

In her partner Antonio

52:02

Wheeler assaulted her. Sneaky.

52:04

Young blamed her mother. For.

52:06

Realists disappears and said militia was

52:09

in her mother's care at the

52:11

time she went missing. Said.

52:13

A prayer vigil. They got into

52:15

an argument when she mika reportedly

52:17

said, why did you have to

52:19

give my baby away. With. So

52:21

there's so much going on in this

52:24

case, kids is almost difficult to wrap

52:26

your your head around, old sir. Mother

52:30

and daughter are arguing. You've.

52:32

Got. A nephew of

52:34

a Tatum. Same. Marbles,

52:37

A good guy. He would never do

52:39

something like this. and if he did

52:41

this because. All. This crazy stuff drove

52:43

him to that. That he would never

52:46

heard this little girl. But. I really

52:48

want to zero when. On. This

52:50

report. That. He of

52:53

during this argument she said to

52:55

her mother why did you have

52:57

to give my baby a. Mean,

53:00

What does that? Me: As

53:02

an intriguing statement to say, because or

53:05

is he saying. You. Gave

53:07

my baby away to. Factor.

53:09

Tatum. Did. You get my baby

53:11

away to. Some. Stranger. Some

53:14

sex trafficking organization? Yeah, we

53:16

were. I don't know what

53:18

to make of that. A.

53:20

City Report issued on

53:23

September second, two thousand

53:25

and fourteen found that

53:27

poor communication lead to

53:29

mistakes and releases case

53:31

officials failed to act

53:33

because they wrongly assumed

53:35

others have. However, the

53:37

report found no justifiable

53:39

government actions would have

53:41

prevented realists tragic disappear.

53:44

Yeah. Most you could say that one

53:46

hundred percent. No, I don't either, because.

53:48

If. She had been taken. Out

53:51

of the home. With. The opportunity

53:53

still have existed

53:55

for. Whatever. Happened

53:58

to her. To. Store. I

54:00

don't know that it would have. Yeah, I

54:03

just think there's way too many errors.

54:05

With. How the school and of the

54:08

how the shelter was handled, How

54:10

the mom. Seemed. Pretty.

54:12

Lousy. Fair yeah about.

54:15

Letting. Her daughter go with

54:17

this fifty one year old

54:19

man's sky Again, It's tough

54:21

to put the blame on.

54:24

People. Without every specific

54:26

facts right, we don't

54:28

have everything. But. If

54:30

we're just speaking generally. I.

54:33

Think there were a lot of people. Who.

54:35

Could have done something different in

54:37

this case or costs our lease.

54:39

Put it that way. This.

54:41

Report recommended over two dozen

54:44

policy changes regarding how schools

54:46

deal with unexcused absences, background

54:48

checks for shelter employees, and

54:51

fraud or in is a

54:53

sin between families and stuff.

54:56

An anonymous law enforcement official

54:58

told the Washington Post in

55:00

two thousand and sixteen that

55:02

he believes Cologne Tatum. Was.

55:05

Temping. That was

55:07

the word that see used

55:09

realists your for himself and

55:12

of. So. That

55:14

really is going down the

55:16

Avenue of. Your. Sex

55:18

trafficking, Or. If

55:20

not her being sold to

55:23

some organization. That. Maybe.

55:25

He was doing it. him sell

55:27

it at. that's true. Then.

55:29

He is not this great guy that.

55:32

His. Nephew thought he is or thinks he

55:34

is. Why? Don't think he was a

55:36

great guy. He shot his wife in the hell

55:38

yeah. And. Killed or no excuse for

55:40

their. Well. This is true. Then

55:42

he's a bigger. Pos: Than.

55:45

What we are adding them. What we are the new

55:47

right? The. Official also speculated that

55:50

Tatum so I found out what

55:52

he was doing and that was

55:54

why he. Filter. I

55:56

mean. You. Can see how that

55:58

could make sense. Well. N n

56:00

all long. In. My mind

56:03

that seem like the most

56:05

logical. Explanation. Now.

56:08

They were getting a divorce

56:10

or. In the process of

56:12

getting a divorce so people have killed.

56:15

For. That reason, or maybe he didn't

56:17

want to pay her. But.

56:20

When. You factor in that he spending

56:22

time with this a year old girl.

56:25

I think it's very reasonable. To

56:27

think that his wife found out about

56:29

it. He. Wasn't. Going.

56:32

To risk. Her. Going

56:34

to the authorities. And

56:36

he science or. Mean. I think

56:38

it's a very plausible theory. In

56:41

April two thousand sixteen, the police

56:43

searched the National Arboretum for evidence but

56:45

found nothing. Sumida Young told Fox

56:47

Five that she didn't know why

56:49

the police would want to search

56:51

the Arboretum. Her mother Melissa told

56:53

the I'll Let that the family

56:55

was kept in the dark and

56:57

she had not spoken to the

56:59

police and to years. Young.

57:01

Added that she had made amends with

57:03

some mika. And. They realized

57:06

realist. Or maybe death. In.

57:08

Late January. Two thousand eighty. The.

57:11

Police concluded a search of. Anacostia

57:14

Park and Se D C.

57:16

A police spokesperson said they

57:18

received information that's potential evidence

57:20

was found in the park,

57:22

but all searches came up

57:24

negative. The. Dc General

57:26

Shelter Close Down October

57:29

Thirtieth Two Thousand Eighty.

57:31

Mayor. Muriel Bowser promise to

57:34

replace it was seven smaller

57:36

shelters across the city. The.

57:38

Shelter did not officially closed until

57:40

two thousand and nineteen. And.

57:42

Several replacement shelters have

57:45

not been. Open

57:47

Source. It does sound like that shelter

57:49

needed to get. I. Get it? It

57:51

was a place to how's a lot of

57:54

people. But. From all the articles

57:56

and everything we read about it.

57:58

Sounded. Like it was. Not. Operated

58:01

very well at all so they they

58:03

couldn't manage it. In December

58:05

two thousand eighteen, the police followed

58:07

up on a tip at the

58:09

Dc General Homeless Shelter, but nothing

58:12

was found. In February

58:14

two thousand and twenty The

58:16

National Center For Missing and

58:18

Exploited Children and the Metropolitan

58:20

Police Departments release and age

58:22

progression photo. Realism

58:24

at age fourteen. And

58:27

two thousand, Twenty two. They.

58:29

Released a second age progression

58:31

photo. Of. What realism may

58:33

look like? It's sixteen. And

58:35

and twenty three, they released a third.

58:38

Photo. Of her at age

58:40

seventeen. and you can view all

58:42

of these photos on the Nc

58:45

M Me Si website. March.

58:47

First, two thousand and twenty four. Will.

58:49

Mark Ten years since release so

58:51

was last seen a lot. Every.

58:54

July eleventh is really Sir Rod

58:56

Remembrance Day and D Seats which

58:59

helps continue to raise awareness for

59:01

her. Takes. At the time

59:03

of her disappearance. Realist. Or

59:05

Rod was four feet tall and

59:07

was wearing a purple winter jacket

59:10

and pink boots. See. Is

59:12

an African American female with

59:14

black hair and brown eyes.

59:16

If you have any information,

59:18

About Realists you're using: Contact

59:20

the Washington D C Metropolitan

59:23

Police Department at Two Zero,

59:25

Two seven to Seven Nine

59:27

Zero Nine Nine Or text

59:29

the tip line. At. Five

59:32

Zero, Four, One One. using.

59:34

Contact the Youth and Family Services

59:36

division it to zero Two. Five.

59:39

Seven Six Six Seven Six Aids

59:41

or the National Center for Missing

59:44

and Exploited Children A One eight

59:46

hundred the Lox. The. F

59:48

B I is offering up to twenty

59:50

five thousand dollars. For. Information

59:52

leading to. Realists.

59:55

His location and return. in

59:57

contact the f b i won a

59:59

hundred call FBI, or you

1:00:01

can call your local FBI office.

1:00:04

You can also submit an anonymous

1:00:06

tip online. So, you know, as

1:00:08

we wrap this one up, I already said it gives,

1:00:10

but it's a real head scratcher. I mean,

1:00:13

this girl was only eight years old when

1:00:16

she went missing. So

1:00:18

I think because we're so

1:00:20

many years on, it's not

1:00:22

that people haven't shown back

1:00:24

up, there are examples of,

1:00:28

you know, kids who went missing and

1:00:30

then, you know, showed back up 10,

1:00:32

15 years later. But

1:00:35

I think there's also, unfortunately,

1:00:37

some other possible explanations.

1:00:40

Yeah. I mean, why did he buy a

1:00:43

shovel, industrial strength

1:00:45

trash bags and line? I

1:00:49

mean, that to me is a

1:00:51

pretty bad sign. Now you could make the

1:00:53

argument that those were for his wife, possibly,

1:00:56

or something different

1:00:58

than both those. Just general

1:01:00

maintenance. Maybe. But it's

1:01:04

in my mind, not a great sign. No.

1:01:06

That this much time has gone

1:01:08

by. This man who was

1:01:10

known to have been with her for

1:01:13

quite a long period of time, killed

1:01:16

his wife, ended his

1:01:18

own life. And then this

1:01:20

girl has never been found. So, and

1:01:23

he chose not to show up to meet the social

1:01:26

worker at the shelter.

1:01:29

Why is that? You know, I mean. Because

1:01:31

I think he was up to no good. Yeah. And

1:01:34

he wasn't going to be able to explain

1:01:36

the Dr. Tatum. I don't know

1:01:39

how he was going to answer the question

1:01:41

of what he was doing with this eight

1:01:43

year old girl for that

1:01:45

amount of time, that stretch of time.

1:01:48

Yeah. It's going to be a

1:01:50

tough conversation to have. It really is. When

1:01:53

on camera, you're seeing

1:01:55

at multiple hotels. Yeah.

1:01:58

You're going to have to try to explain. All

1:02:00

of that. And. Then on top of

1:02:02

that if you're I found out. And.

1:02:04

She was bar a to blow the whistle on

1:02:06

you. I. Mean. Yeah. I

1:02:09

think some of these things kind of

1:02:11

sit in. The. Spots where.

1:02:14

They. Should. Not can't say

1:02:16

for sure that that that's the way

1:02:18

it all went down by it's it's

1:02:20

has a seem like that's the most

1:02:22

plausible. Explanations. The only

1:02:25

other thing is that.

1:02:28

You. East's. Realists is a

1:02:30

live out Their. Could see

1:02:32

have been soul. Into. One

1:02:34

of these. Big. Sex

1:02:37

trafficking organizations maybe

1:02:39

even taken overseas

1:02:42

somewhere. That's

1:02:44

a possibility. And. Then

1:02:46

I feel bad for the mom. Mean.

1:02:49

She lost her. Daughter. She

1:02:51

doesn't know for daughter's dead

1:02:54

or alive out there's. You.

1:02:56

Know are being harmed.

1:02:58

Yeah. I think you have to feel

1:03:01

bad for her regardless of how

1:03:03

you feel about some of the

1:03:05

parenting choices. that C Major. You.

1:03:08

You can not agree with those, and I'm sure

1:03:10

a lot of people don't. It's but.

1:03:12

No one wants the to see somebody

1:03:14

you know lose a child. And

1:03:16

then you think about. Her dad.

1:03:19

The. Didn't get the opportunity to get.

1:03:21

Custody of her. What? Would happen

1:03:23

if that. Went. The other way. Or.

1:03:27

Again, what would have happened

1:03:29

if some of these agencies

1:03:31

maybe had step Then after

1:03:33

repeated reports. And. You've

1:03:36

taken her or. Maybe.

1:03:38

Possibly her siblings as well. Out

1:03:41

of the whole yeah. I.

1:03:43

Don't know You see is that question

1:03:45

because it's it. Didn't that? But

1:03:48

that's it for our episode on

1:03:50

the Disappearance of Realists Your Rod.

1:03:53

That. Some voice mails gives you an insect as out

1:03:55

the serum. to

1:03:58

voicemail And the

1:04:01

lady that called about the axe

1:04:04

man, Gibby

1:04:06

thought she had said ass man, and

1:04:10

I thought the same thing. I

1:04:13

was trying to figure out, what

1:04:15

in the world is she talking about?

1:04:18

I haven't done an episode about an

1:04:20

ass man, so it wasn't

1:04:23

just Gibby that misheard.

1:04:27

It was me too. For you,

1:04:29

he likes a good ass man. That

1:04:32

didn't sound good at all. Yeah,

1:04:35

I mean, the ass man of New Orleans,

1:04:38

I kind of got that part. Watch

1:04:41

out for that ass man. Where's the New Orleans? I can

1:04:43

put two and two together, but, I

1:04:45

mean, you can't say the phrase

1:04:48

ass man without thinking about Kramer.

1:04:51

No, you can't. I mean, that's the first thing that

1:04:53

pops into my mind. Hey, ass man!

1:04:55

Yeah, that's right. Whoever's,

1:04:59

what do you call that thing? Licent plate. Remember

1:05:02

the accent plate? Yeah, it said ass man. That

1:05:04

was the whole part of the show. Hey

1:05:08

guys, this is Adam from Texas. Just

1:05:11

wanted to say hi, and I love you

1:05:13

guys' podcast. I love all of them. I

1:05:15

think they're great. My

1:05:19

favorite podcast, hand down. I'm

1:05:22

leaving this message on true crime

1:05:25

all the time, so Gibby

1:05:27

can hear it. I've

1:05:29

listened to all the episodes, by the way. I've listened

1:05:32

to them all. So

1:05:34

one of the episodes, you gave

1:05:36

Gibby a hard time because he, I

1:05:39

think he firmed for something at

1:05:41

the end of an episode and

1:05:43

he left the recorder on. Well,

1:05:46

my question is, is maybe Gibby

1:05:49

can help with the investigation,

1:05:51

is in criminology, episode

1:05:53

48 started

1:05:55

the seven minute mark, and this one

1:05:57

happened at the beginning of the episode.

1:06:00

starting at the seven minute mark

1:06:02

and up to about the seven

1:06:05

minute 15 second mark, I would

1:06:08

like to know what that noise is.

1:06:10

You got to listen but it's loud.

1:06:12

I have earbuds and so

1:06:14

I can hear it crack me up because

1:06:16

it's a mystery sound. Anyway,

1:06:19

maybe you can help with that givey and

1:06:21

we can figure this out. Once

1:06:23

again, I love you guys, this

1:06:25

podcast and thanks a bunch. Bye.

1:06:28

Awesome. Thanks for the voicemail. Yeah, I

1:06:31

don't know. 48, that's going back quite a

1:06:33

ways on criminology and it's hard telling because

1:06:35

Morph and I used to tape

1:06:37

over Skype using, you know,

1:06:40

he used different equipment. He ate a lot

1:06:42

of chili. So yeah, that's what that noise

1:06:45

could have been. He was in that chili

1:06:47

cook-off competition. It was like a

1:06:49

year long fan. I don't know.

1:06:52

But I do hear the voicemails on both

1:06:55

podcasts. No, I think

1:06:57

he meant criminology. Oh,

1:06:59

I got you now. Yeah, I'm a

1:07:01

little slow tanking. Yeah. Hey, let me catch

1:07:04

you up. Yeah. Hi, guys.

1:07:06

It's Kerry from Colorado. I

1:07:09

was just listening to the

1:07:12

thing from Russia. Givey can

1:07:14

tell you how to pronounce

1:07:17

it. And you're talking about

1:07:19

slide avalanches or slab avalanches.

1:07:22

And it made me think of this

1:07:24

one time that I went to Crested Butte in the

1:07:26

mountains in Colorado, not to ski because I'm with Mike

1:07:28

Ferguson on that. But anyway,

1:07:31

I went there and because this past

1:07:33

Blue Ribbon and other factors, I went

1:07:35

into an arm wrestling competition and I

1:07:37

did really good until

1:07:39

I went up against this woman whose

1:07:41

nickname was Depp Hole, not hole like

1:07:43

H W H O

1:07:46

R E. Hole like H O A R

1:07:48

E, which is the unstable portion

1:07:51

of the snow that's underneath

1:07:53

the big frozen slab that

1:07:55

causes the avalanche to Go.

1:07:58

And I'm going to. Never

1:08:01

ever go up against someone named is

1:08:03

that? for. Any sort of

1:08:05

athletic competitions especially direct five

1:08:07

ten two hundred pounds on

1:08:10

us are obviously also. The

1:08:12

thing that killed all of

1:08:14

those people was mediocre. Mediocre.

1:08:16

Mediocre. Mediocre is a more

1:08:18

meteors because the radioactive and

1:08:21

you're hot and as usual

1:08:23

about saw him. So

1:08:26

that is if you don't uncertain.

1:08:28

Are. Those Road runner be solved The.

1:08:31

Season. The seasons as he serves

1:08:33

loss to break down there. First

1:08:35

of all there's some Pbr which

1:08:38

led the arm wrestling. And. Pbr

1:08:40

really do some questionable does.

1:08:43

Smoke. Pot is too much previous.

1:08:46

Lead to questionable decisions but to.

1:08:49

Remote one time and grandpa we did they

1:08:51

are arm wrestling match with his other by

1:08:53

canisters. You. Don't remember cause you had

1:08:56

to. Most people might have blacked out

1:08:58

and nine some. I see him arm

1:09:00

wrestle any by with my bed sores.

1:09:02

I'm zone isn't as good girls members.

1:09:06

Never looked at as the same as if he

1:09:08

doesn't matter. As for doesn't. So.

1:09:10

We proceed all the voice mails but

1:09:12

that's it for another episode of True

1:09:14

Crime all the time on Salsa for

1:09:16

might give his stay safe and keep

1:09:18

your own time taking. He

1:09:35

he.

1:09:58

Doesn't exist. Pluto TV.

1:10:01

Unravel the mysteries on shows like CSI

1:10:03

and Criminal Minds. Or follow the

1:10:05

clues in Blue Bloods and NCIS. With

1:10:08

thousands of free crime movies and TV

1:10:10

shows, Pluto TV is the true home

1:10:12

of crime. Download the

1:10:14

Pluto TV app and start streaming

1:10:16

now on live channels and on

1:10:18

demand. You better run for your

1:10:21

life. Pluto TV.

1:10:23

Stream now. Pay never. For

1:10:26

the past 30 years, CareHeating and Cooling put

1:10:28

you first. You are the reason they are

1:10:30

open 7 days a week. You are why

1:10:33

they make it easy to schedule service at

1:10:35

careheatingandcooling.com. Concern for your safety is

1:10:37

why they check every gas furnace for carbon

1:10:39

monoxide. It's because of you that their technicians

1:10:41

are paid to fix your furnace and air

1:10:43

conditioner, not sell you a new one. And

1:10:45

if you do need a new furnace, their

1:10:47

team will make sure you get exactly what

1:10:49

you need at a cost that fits your

1:10:51

budget. CareHeating and Cooling is committed to doing

1:10:53

business right. Call them at 1-800-COOLING. When you

1:10:55

need a company you can trust.