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captivating stories together. Hello

1:05

everyone and welcome to episode 353 of

1:07

the True Crime All The Time Unsolved

1:09

podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me

1:11

as always is my partner in true

1:13

crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

1:15

Hey, I'm doing good. How

1:17

about you? I'm doing pretty well. Yeah. We

1:20

had some tornadoes here

1:23

this week. A little dorthy activity. Yeah.

1:26

Five tornadoes touchdown. Some

1:28

of them close to us, some of them a little bit farther

1:30

away, but all five around the

1:33

area. Did you chase the storms?

1:36

No. Like in Twister? I would never do

1:38

that. No. Tornadoes are so dangerous,

1:40

man. They scare me. They scare me.

1:43

Let's go ahead and give our

1:45

Patreon shout outs. We had logista

1:47

Branham. Hey, Branham. Jacqueline

1:49

Guimond. Hey, Jacqueline. Jan.

1:52

What's going on, Jan? Kevin Twidle. Hey,

1:54

there's Kevin. Personally victimized

1:56

by Regina George. Sounds like a

1:58

mean girls thing. Yeah, and

2:00

you got that on Patreon and I was

2:02

actually shocked that you knew that. Very

2:05

smart when it comes to movies. You

2:07

are. You are. Yeah. I've

2:10

learned that throughout the years. Ron Kenman. What's

2:12

up, Ron? Matt O. Hey,

2:15

Matt. Amanda Mitchell. Well, thanks,

2:17

Amanda. Patricia Cook. Hey, there's Patricia.

2:19

Melanie Fuentes. Oh, what's up, Melanie?

2:21

Janet Wiseman. Hey, Janet. And

2:23

Aileah C. Hi, Aileah. Yeah.

2:27

And then we go back into the vault. This

2:30

week we selected Cheryl Ann Reed. What's going

2:32

on, Cheryl Ann Reed? Thank you. Yeah,

2:34

so we appreciate the new support, the

2:37

continued support. We have an

2:39

episode out right now on True Crime All

2:41

The Time where we're talking about Gregory Harris.

2:44

And this was a guy who was

2:46

married to a woman

2:49

named Chiquita who was

2:51

a young, successful, very successful

2:53

defense attorney. Yes.

2:56

He was found murdered in

2:58

her downtown Baton Rouge, Louisiana

3:00

office. And

3:02

the police set their sights on her

3:04

husband, Greg. All signs

3:07

pointed to him. But

3:09

the defense made some compelling arguments. So it's

3:11

a pretty strong argument. It's a very interesting

3:14

episode. And the whole jury

3:17

issue is interesting. Oh, yeah, there is

3:19

a wrinkle that happens

3:22

with the jury. This is interesting as

3:24

well. All right, buddy, are you ready

3:26

to get into this episode of True

3:28

Crime All The Time, Monso? I'm ready.

3:30

We're talking about the mysterious disappearance and

3:32

death of Robert Hoagland. Robert

3:34

Hoagland was a pretty

3:36

normal family man from Newtown,

3:39

Connecticut. He disappeared without a

3:41

trace on July 28, 2013. Nine

3:45

years later, he was located

3:47

after he died unexpectedly at a

3:49

home in upstate New York.

3:52

So basically, he'd been living under

3:54

an alias and had started the

3:56

new life. But no one knows why

3:58

Robert Hoagland was a very famous man. his home and

4:01

chose to live less than a hundred

4:03

miles away from the family who spent

4:05

years searching for him. Bizarre.

4:08

It's very bizarre and we're gonna get

4:10

into all the details. Have you ever

4:13

thought about, I know you

4:15

haven't. This

4:17

is gonna be good, go ahead. What

4:19

it'd be like to start a new life over

4:21

underneath the Elias and just kind of like a

4:24

new chapter? No, because I

4:26

feel like I would be starting from

4:29

scratch. Yeah. And

4:31

I love my wife. Of course. I

4:34

love my kids. So obviously that would be a,

4:37

you know, a no starter for me. But

4:39

even, you know, let's just

4:41

say I wasn't married and I didn't

4:43

have kids. Right. And I really had

4:46

very little connections. Well

4:48

I guess then why would I need

4:50

to mysteriously disappear? I could just

4:52

move and take all my money with me.

4:54

That's true. It's a good point. So, but

4:57

I don't understand that kind of

4:59

starting over, starting from scratch idea.

5:03

I guess you'd have to really dislike

5:07

your current situation. Oh, you

5:09

would have to. Or be

5:12

fearful for your life or there would have

5:14

to be some reason. Right.

5:16

To flee your significant

5:19

other and maybe kids.

5:22

Robert Hoagland, who went by the nickname

5:24

Hokey was born on June

5:26

9th, 1963. He was married

5:28

to Lori Hoagland. They

5:31

had three children together, Chris, Max,

5:33

and Sam, who were in their

5:35

20s when their dad went missing. Nicknames

5:38

are funny, but to be named after a

5:40

sandwich. Yeah. Hoagie. Yeah. Lori

5:43

taught culinary arts at Newtown

5:45

High and Robert spent

5:47

many years working as a

5:49

professional chef. Lori and

5:51

Robert separated for two years at one point

5:53

in their marriage, but they decided

5:55

they wanted to stay together and

5:57

were planning their retirement together. in

6:00

the time leading up to Robert's

6:02

disappearance. I was just thinking that dinner

6:05

time around there had to be pretty good. With

6:07

a professional chef and a

6:09

wife and mother who taught culinary art? Yeah,

6:11

I would think so. So I

6:14

wonder how many people separate for

6:17

as long as two years, and

6:19

then ultimately make the decision that, no,

6:22

we wanna stay together, we wanna spend

6:24

the rest of our lives together. Two years is a

6:26

long time. It is. But

6:28

I also think it's a substantial amount of time for

6:31

you to get out there. Be

6:33

away from this partner, and if you feel

6:36

like you wanna see, was

6:38

there other opportunities for me? Should

6:40

I be looking at other things to

6:42

make sure this is the right person I

6:44

wanna be with? By other things, it sounds

6:46

like you are saying, play the

6:49

field, go out on dates, meet other

6:51

women. Or, in her case, meet

6:53

other men. Yeah, we

6:55

don't know who initiated the

6:57

separation. I just thought that was

6:59

a long time to then come

7:02

back and decide that you want to spend

7:04

the rest of your lives together. But to

7:07

your point, because it is such a long

7:09

time, you would probably be

7:11

pretty sure at that point. I would

7:13

think you'd have to be pretty good with that

7:15

decision. Laurie told the News

7:17

Times, after two years, we knew we

7:20

loved each other, and he moved back

7:22

home. If he wanted out of the

7:24

marriage, all he would have to

7:26

say is that he wanted out of

7:28

the marriage. But that was not remotely

7:30

where we were. And I think

7:33

this two-year separation kind

7:36

of is even a bigger deal

7:38

when we know that he's going

7:40

to disappear. Right. Why get

7:42

back together to then

7:44

later just leave? It

7:47

doesn't really add up. Doesn't

7:49

seem to. But also, you know, it's

7:51

easy, I think, sometimes for people to

7:53

say, if you want out

7:55

of this relationship, just say so. If

7:57

you want out of this marriage, just say

7:59

so. Sometimes I don't think it's that easy. Well,

8:02

I don't think it's ever as easy as just

8:04

saying it, right? You know because

8:06

there are a lot of factors many of

8:08

of which you and I have talked about

8:11

before there's the financial issues There's all that

8:13

their son max struggled with addiction

8:16

This was difficult for the family

8:18

But Laurie told the Albany Times

8:20

Union that she and Robert were

8:23

completely intent about how to help

8:25

Matt she added it was definitely

8:28

a challenging situation But

8:30

not one so desperate that he just

8:32

leave so again a lot of the

8:34

things that she's talking with the paper about are

8:38

Related to you know Robert

8:41

Ultimately leaving but

8:43

that's according to her. Yes That's

8:46

her thoughts on right and I think

8:49

it would be so tough to deal with a child

8:52

That had an addiction issue that

8:54

could put some additional stress into

8:56

your relationship There's no doubt about

8:59

it now. She's saying they

9:01

were completely in tandem, which I think

9:03

it would be very important you

9:05

know if you Differed

9:08

on how you thought you know, your

9:11

child should be helped. Should we

9:13

give the child money? Should we not give

9:15

them money because then we're just enabling them

9:18

You could see a lot of arguments that

9:20

could stem from not being on the same

9:22

page, right? So we put this so

9:25

we pay for rehab should we you

9:27

know Put our foot down and say

9:29

you have to go to rehab or something

9:31

like that Robert eventually left

9:34

the restaurant industry to spend more

9:36

time with his family He worked

9:38

part-time as a real estate appraiser

9:40

and worked in a friend's law office

9:43

in Bridgeport according to the news

9:45

Times at the time of his disappearance Robert

9:48

was concerned about Max's struggles

9:50

with substance abuse and

9:52

was planning to take him on a trip So

9:55

yeah, I'm sure he was concerned but

9:58

back to What

10:00

Laurie said, was it

10:03

a concern that would have

10:05

caused him to just up and leave? And

10:07

my thought is, is if he was concerned,

10:10

would he want to be out of his life

10:13

and not be able to help him? So I mean, these

10:15

are all things we're going to have to look at. Absolutely. As

10:18

we go along. July 28th, 2013 was a normal Sunday for

10:20

Robert Hoagland. He

10:24

was up early that morning around 6 45 a.m. He

10:28

went to a local bagel shop

10:30

called Bagel Delight and bought half

10:32

a tank of gas at a

10:34

mobile station on Churchill Road in

10:36

Newtown. He also purchased a

10:38

map of the eastern US. Robert

10:40

was captured on surveillance video at

10:42

the gas station. Okay,

10:45

bagels seems pretty normal.

10:48

You've got to fill up, you know, the

10:50

car. Sure. The

10:52

map of the eastern US kind

10:54

of stands out. It does. A

10:57

little bit. Number one, how

10:59

many people were using maps by 2013? Fairly

11:03

limited. I would think so. I

11:05

mean, we had iPhones,

11:08

we had smartphones that had

11:10

map apps on them, right? By 2013. Which

11:14

are great if you have a destination

11:16

in mind already. That's

11:19

true. If you wanted to randomly

11:22

select, maybe a map

11:25

comes in handy. Maybe.

11:27

Yeah, I mean, for directions, it wouldn't

11:30

have beaten any

11:32

of the technology that was out

11:34

there. Right. Robert came

11:36

home and ate breakfast with his son,

11:38

Max. He played online

11:40

scrabble, paid some bills, and

11:43

then went outside to mow his lawn. So

11:45

I said this was a pretty normal Sunday.

11:48

Now I don't get up at 6.45

11:50

a.m. on Sundays, but outside

11:52

of that, it does seem pretty

11:54

normal. Yeah. Outside

11:56

of the, you know, that and buying the map. I mean,

11:59

what else? Started cutting his grass.

12:01

Can't get more normal than that. Robert stopped

12:04

mowing to say goodbye to Max who

12:06

said he was leaving for a few

12:08

hours and took one of the family

12:10

vehicles. A neighbor saw them talking in

12:12

the yard. Lori Hoagland was not

12:14

at the house that day. She was

12:16

finishing up a 17 day

12:18

trip to Turkey with her friends and

12:20

flew home on July 29th. Robert

12:23

was supposed to pick her up at

12:25

the JFK airport in New York city.

12:27

That's a heck of a trip. That is heck

12:29

of a trip. 17 days to

12:32

Turkey. I mean, I gotta take care of the kids for

12:34

17 days. That's

12:36

what us guys would be

12:38

thinking. But now she was a

12:40

teacher, right? So she had the

12:43

summers off. She could go

12:45

on that long of a

12:47

trip. Most of us don't get that

12:49

much time off at one single time.

12:51

Lori texted Robert when she landed and

12:54

tried calling him, but he didn't answer.

12:56

She wasn't concerned because Robert

12:59

often let his phone die. She

13:01

figured he was caught in traffic and would

13:03

be there eventually, but he never showed up.

13:06

Oh, we all know that person that doesn't like

13:08

to keep their phone charged. Yeah.

13:10

You've heard me talk about the app that I

13:12

use to kind of keep track everybody in the

13:15

family. It even has like an

13:17

indicator that tells you how much

13:19

battery each person's phone has. So you

13:21

can say, Hey, you need to plug your

13:24

phone. I text them all the time at night. Hey, make sure

13:26

you plug your phone in. Are you going to wake up with

13:28

a dead phone? I don't know if it's ever

13:30

happened to you, but it's the worst.

13:32

When you are supposed to be picked up

13:34

at the airport by somebody, you've been on

13:37

these long grueling flights. You just

13:39

want to get home, maybe get in your

13:41

own bed and the person

13:43

that's supposed to be there doesn't show up. No,

13:46

I don't think I've ever had that happen because I've

13:48

almost always driven to the airport, I

13:50

think when I've gone places by

13:53

myself, Lori waited two hours

13:55

before she took a cab to a

13:57

relative's home in Brooklyn. She

13:59

contacted. the wife of Robert's boss

14:01

and learned that he didn't

14:03

go to work that day. Lori was

14:05

suspicious when she came home and

14:08

discovered that Robert's mini Cooper was

14:10

in the driveway, but he wasn't

14:12

home. Well, I think that's the

14:14

time to start worrying. Yeah.

14:17

Couple that with the fact that he didn't come pick

14:19

her up. Right. And didn't go to work that day.

14:21

And didn't go to work that day. Lori reported

14:24

her husband missing that day. She

14:26

told the police that she and

14:28

Robert emailed each other throughout her

14:30

trip and spoke to each other

14:32

on the night of July 27th. Robert

14:34

left behind both pairs of his

14:37

favorite loafers, his phone, car,

14:39

passport, and blood pressure

14:42

medication. I think that the concern

14:44

would be the phone, the car,

14:46

in the passport. No,

14:48

I was thinking the blood pressure medication. No,

14:51

you're right. In the blood pressure medication too,

14:53

the favorite loafers, I don't know if that

14:55

would be such a big deal.

14:58

Yeah. I don't think my wife would say, oh,

15:00

my husband, I can't find my husband and

15:02

his favorite pair of shoes are

15:04

here. Right. I don't have

15:07

what you would call favorite pairs of shoes. I

15:09

only have a few pairs anyway. The

15:12

same day his father was

15:14

reported missing, Max Houghlin was

15:16

arrested for misdemeanor trespassing in

15:18

Bridgeport. Max's vehicle was

15:20

seen parked in an area with

15:22

no trespassing signs that was known

15:24

for drug activity. Max told

15:26

officers he was there to buy drugs

15:29

and said he had permission to use the car.

15:32

Officers contacted Lori and she told them

15:34

he did not have permission to use

15:36

the car. There was no evidence

15:38

his activities or associates had

15:41

anything to do with Robert's

15:43

disappearance. Well, I think you have to

15:45

ask those questions though, right? Yeah, absolutely.

15:48

I mean, you're going to look at the wife, although

15:50

she's been gone for 17 days,

15:53

but you're still going to look at her. But

15:55

when you have a son, that is

15:58

in the drug. And Is

16:00

associating let's say with

16:03

some questionable individuals you

16:05

have to ask the question could

16:07

any of those activities have

16:10

something to do with the disappearance

16:12

of robin yeah. On

16:14

august fifteen max pleaded guilty to

16:16

the charge and was released from

16:18

jail meanwhile the police track

16:21

roberts movements to the gas station

16:23

and bagel shop learn

16:25

that max was the last person to

16:27

see his father at home turn out

16:29

that the gas bagels and map

16:31

where roberts last purchases on his

16:33

credit card. Authority search the

16:36

woods and trails around the family

16:38

home but found nothing the

16:40

police learn that robert withdrew six hundred

16:42

dollars from his bank account on july

16:45

twenty fifth. The thursday before

16:47

he went missing lori told the

16:49

news that she thought

16:51

this was strange and question why

16:53

robert would withdraw such a small

16:55

amount if you were going to

16:57

run away. That's a good point the

17:00

six hundred dollars is not going to

17:02

get you very far no if

17:05

that's all you have to your name. The

17:07

family initially thought roberts wallet was

17:09

missing because they couldn't find it

17:12

which led them to consider the possibility

17:14

that he left on his own. However

17:17

robert showed no signs of someone who

17:19

is planning on running away from his

17:21

family it doesn't really make sense

17:24

when you think about the activities he did

17:26

that day. Online scrabble and

17:28

paint some bills online and then

17:31

look if i was going to run away i don't

17:33

think i'd be mowing my grass wouldn't

17:36

be the first thing

17:38

on my list but my thought is

17:40

even more so than that stuff you

17:43

would expect to see some

17:45

type of plan. Right maybe

17:48

packing some clothes or something

17:51

missing from the house that someone

17:54

would take with them and find

17:56

any of that stuff ten days

17:58

after robert when. missing, Lori

18:01

found his wallet and keys hidden under

18:03

a doll on a chair in their

18:05

bedroom. And this was deeply

18:07

upsetting to the family because it

18:09

caused them to fear something terrible

18:11

had happened to Robert. I

18:13

mean, you have to think about that. Robert

18:17

leaving his phone and medication

18:20

and other critical items.

18:23

It's definitely going to make his kids and

18:25

his wife wonder, did someone take

18:28

Robert? Is he okay? And

18:30

it's just going to cause an intense worry. Well,

18:33

and especially after 10 days, right?

18:36

You would expect to have heard from

18:38

him by now, if he just went

18:40

off, let's say he was frustrated and

18:43

just needed to get away to clear his head. At

18:46

the very least you would think he would

18:48

make a phone call at some

18:50

point and say, Hey, I

18:53

went to a motel. I just needed to

18:55

clear my head. But again,

18:58

why wouldn't he take his wallet? Why wouldn't he

19:00

take his car, his phone, stuff

19:02

like that. Why only $600? There

19:05

were alleged sightings of Robert in

19:07

Connecticut and Rhode Island, but these

19:09

ended up being false leads. A

19:12

witness in West Warwick, Rhode

19:14

Island thought they saw someone

19:16

matching Robert's description in August,

19:18

2013. The

19:21

man was carrying a large backpack and

19:23

wearing a light colored shirt and

19:25

was seen walking near route 177 near

19:27

the I 95 exit and entrance ramps

19:29

in September. Department

19:34

of transportation workers in West Greenwich,

19:36

Rhode Island thought they saw Robert

19:39

a man fitting his description was

19:41

seen with a large backpack walking

19:44

on route 165 from Rhode

19:47

Island towards Connecticut. You

19:49

know, it's interesting how many people

19:51

out there can potentially look like somebody else.

19:53

I mean, I get people telling

19:55

me all the time that they saw somebody that

19:57

looked like me. I was just

19:59

at. Local

20:02

sports bar not too

20:04

long ago for happy

20:06

hour with the office when

20:09

my boss was in town. I kid you

20:11

not remember looking over at another table and

20:13

i saw a guy i thought. I

20:16

looks like me you were like that's a good looking

20:18

guy you know and he looked back with a bad

20:20

we made it you know i can. It

20:23

is like i don't like that you

20:25

got a doppelganger i don't like that

20:28

but i can see where people can potentially

20:30

say i think we saw this

20:32

guy look like that guy. Well

20:35

especially if you didn't know the

20:37

person and all you had was

20:39

a description or you saw

20:42

a picture for

20:44

a brief moment on the television right.

20:47

Could you then later see someone and

20:49

say that really looks like the person

20:52

i saw yeah i could see that

20:54

happening. True crime all

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23:29

shopify.com/unsolved. On September

23:31

10th, a police spokesman told the

23:33

Newtown B that the sighting near

23:35

I-95 in Route 117 in Warwick

23:39

was a case of mistaken identity. Police

23:42

Chief Michael Kehoe told the outlet,

23:45

"'We're looking at all aspects of

23:47

his disappearance. It's a

23:49

very difficult investigation. We have

23:51

no leads.'" Well, it's very

23:53

difficult. You have no leads. Yeah, and

23:55

he's being brutally honest, right? But I

23:58

think a lot of investing are

24:00

like this. If you

24:02

don't have any leads to rundown,

24:05

what do you do? Where do you go from? Once

24:08

you've questioned the people

24:10

that are closest to

24:13

the person who has disappeared, at

24:16

a certain point you've checked

24:18

surveillance video of known places,

24:20

what else do you do? It's almost

24:22

like you're waiting for a break in

24:25

the case or you're waiting for a

24:27

tip to come in, something you can

24:29

check out. Yeah, because he's not using

24:31

credit cards. Doesn't have his

24:33

phone. No, there's no trail. And he

24:35

didn't take his car that can be

24:37

maybe picked up on a camera somewhere

24:40

or somehow ID'd. On September

24:42

1st, the police did a sonar

24:44

search of Lake Zor in Connecticut

24:47

to determine if Robert's body could be there.

24:49

They also brought in search dogs, but

24:51

they didn't find any human remains.

24:54

And I thought that that was interesting

24:57

just for the fact that they

24:59

chose to do that. And I wonder if

25:02

it was based on some type of

25:04

tip, or it was

25:06

just a hunch. Yeah, could have just

25:08

been like, hey, we've exhausted

25:10

all efforts. Only we

25:12

haven't done yet to look in that lake over

25:14

there. Let's go ahead and zero in

25:16

all that and so we can check it off the list. Lori

25:19

and the family did their own

25:21

searches and posted online about the

25:24

case to spread awareness. And

25:26

I do think this is something that kind

25:29

of separates the newer cases

25:31

from let's say

25:33

the pre-internet, pre-social media

25:36

cases. You have

25:38

the ability now to

25:40

reach a pretty large audience, you

25:44

do, via social media. You

25:47

think about cases when we were

25:49

younger, people were making

25:51

up flyers and posting them around

25:54

town, things like

25:56

that, because what else could you

25:58

do? Maybe you could get the little. a local

26:00

television station to do a story.

26:03

But social media opens up a

26:05

ton of avenues. Yeah,

26:07

Instagram and Facebook. I

26:09

wonder if you put it on TikTok, do you have

26:11

to do a little dance while you talk

26:14

about it? I don't know. TikTok is

26:16

the one thing that I don't use because

26:19

everything I've seen from my kids has

26:22

been nothing but fluff, I'll

26:25

call it. It's got

26:27

nothing to it. There's

26:29

no substance. It's

26:32

kids lip syncing, dancing,

26:35

things that I don't care about. Maybe

26:37

one day they'll get you to be a TikToker.

26:40

Maybe, but I do not think so. At

26:43

one point, the police thought Robert

26:45

might have traveled all the way

26:47

to the West Coast because he

26:49

reportedly had connections in California, cities

26:52

like Hollywood, Norco, Diamond

26:54

Bar, Glendora, and Valisito,

26:57

long ways away. Connecticut

26:59

to California. High can

27:01

a half. On January 20, 2014,

27:03

there was a sighting at a saver store in

27:08

Brookfield, Connecticut, which is

27:10

less than 15 minutes from Newtown.

27:13

A witness saw a man leave

27:15

in a vehicle with New York

27:17

license plates. The surveillance footage wasn't

27:19

clear enough for authorities to make

27:22

an identification. But pretty close to

27:24

home if that's the case. Yeah, but

27:26

you have to then wonder why

27:28

the New York license plate. If

27:30

that was Robert, was he

27:32

now living in New York? And

27:34

if so, why was he

27:37

in Brookfield, Connecticut? Maybe that

27:39

saver store carried the only food

27:41

item that he ever carried,

27:43

the only food item that he really wanted to get his hands

27:46

on. So you had to drive all

27:48

the way to Brookfield? Yeah. Laurie told the

27:50

news times six months after

27:52

Robert disappeared. Obviously, after

27:55

six months, there aren't many

27:57

leads anymore. We continue to

27:59

be strong enough. our conviction that he would

28:01

never just run away. But there's

28:03

no proof either way. I

28:06

mean, it has to be frustrating because you

28:08

really don't want to think that your husband

28:10

just checked out and said, I'm out of

28:12

here and I'm going to make

28:14

you suffer at the same time. Not

28:16

just miss me, but worry that

28:19

something bad happened to me. That's

28:21

what I'm going to do to you guys.

28:23

Yeah. And you don't want to believe that

28:25

something bad happened either. But after

28:27

six months, you've got to start to believe

28:29

something. Yeah. At least in the back of

28:31

your mind. You may not want to admit

28:34

it, but when somebody's been gone

28:36

for six months, it doesn't

28:38

seem like a good sign. Yeah. I

28:40

think you have to put it up on the wall, right?

28:42

Why did he leave me? Why

28:45

did he leave me and the kids versus

28:48

what potentially could have happened bad? Did

28:50

somebody take him? Did somebody do something

28:52

bad to him? Laurie

28:54

spoke about how she and her sons

28:57

sat together and tried to figure out

28:59

reasons why Robert would leave. They

29:01

also thought about all the horrible

29:03

possibilities of what could have happened

29:05

to him. She said she hoped

29:07

that if her husband was dead,

29:09

someone would find his remains one

29:11

day. So you talked

29:13

about something very interesting

29:16

to me, which is if

29:18

Robert makes this decision to leave

29:21

voluntarily, he really

29:23

is doing so with

29:25

the knowledge that he has

29:27

to be putting his family through

29:29

hell. Yeah. If that's

29:31

the case, it's really a shitty move. Anybody

29:34

who does that has to

29:36

know what they're doing to

29:38

their family, their wife, their kids, the

29:40

worry, the sleepless nights,

29:44

the guilt, did I do

29:46

something wrong? All of that you're

29:49

putting on people who you supposedly

29:51

love. I don't know if you could get

29:53

more selfish than that. No. Robert

29:56

was allegedly seen at the

29:58

Putnam County Correctional Facility. in

30:00

Carmel, New York on July 24, 2014. Someone

30:05

visiting an inmate thought

30:07

they saw Robert walking into the building.

30:10

The man left after just two minutes. No

30:13

footage inside the facility captured his

30:15

movements. Exterior surveillance

30:17

footage didn't help with

30:19

identification. So there had been a

30:21

number of sightings, or

30:24

alleged sightings, of

30:26

Robert Pogla. Now, were

30:28

any of them real? We don't know. But

30:31

it's gotta be enough to give the

30:33

family hope. Well, this one in

30:35

New York coupled with the

30:37

fact that someone thought they

30:39

saw him with New York plates, that's

30:42

kind of intriguing. Yeah. In

30:44

November, 2014, the search turned to

30:47

Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. After the

30:49

police received the tip that Robert

30:51

may be working in a restaurant

30:54

there. And I do think, given

30:57

his past as a

30:59

chef, that would be something

31:01

that you'd really wanna run down.

31:03

Because would it be

31:05

easier in some restaurants

31:09

to get a job without maybe

31:11

having all of the identification

31:14

that you would need, let's say if

31:16

you were applying to be

31:19

a bank teller. Right. And

31:21

if it's not a chain restaurant, yeah,

31:24

maybe. Yeah, I think so. I

31:26

just keep thinking about how the family has

31:28

to feel. Every time they hear something like this,

31:31

it's just gonna give you this rush of

31:33

hope. Hey, maybe they found that.

31:36

But at the same time, with that

31:38

rush of hope, doesn't there

31:41

have to be some, you

31:43

know, why would he just up and leave us?

31:46

Maybe you kinda hope, and I hate to

31:48

say it, but that scenario where we had

31:51

that one guy that hit his

31:53

head. And

31:55

for so many years, forgot that who

31:57

he was and that he had a

31:59

family. Allegedly. Allegedly. He said he did.

32:01

Yeah, and then had a whole other life

32:03

going on for a very long period of

32:05

time. And then one day came

32:08

back and walked into his

32:10

front door and said, Hey family, I'm

32:12

back. Yeah. I mean, it's

32:14

possible. Yeah. Right. There are a lot of

32:16

possibilities here, but again, you're going to be

32:19

thinking about all of them and you're going

32:21

to be thinking about, you know,

32:23

did I do something that could

32:25

have caused him to just walk out

32:28

and then, you know, the kids as well, why

32:31

would dad just leave us? I'm

32:33

sure it weighed on Max, you know, at

32:35

that time he was having some

32:37

trouble. Yeah. And did my troubles have

32:39

something to do with dad leaving? Yeah.

32:41

In May, 2016, Robert's case

32:44

was featured on the well-known show

32:46

disappeared. During the episode, it

32:49

was reported that Robert met with

32:51

some shady men a few days

32:53

before he disappeared, Max claimed

32:55

they stole the family's computers. According

32:58

to the news times, the

33:00

police said Max brought the laptops

33:02

to an abandoned building in Bridgeport.

33:05

The same week Robert went missing.

33:07

Robert suspected the laptops were

33:10

stolen or sold in exchange

33:12

for drugs. He confronted the

33:14

men inside an old factory where

33:16

they often hung out. These men

33:18

denied stealing the computers and

33:20

there was no evidence linking them

33:22

to Robert's disappearance. Lori and

33:25

other friends said if Robert thought Max or

33:27

his family was in danger, he

33:29

would have confronted that person. Lori

33:31

told the news times, I've seen him

33:33

chase people down the street with baseball.

33:36

Hmm. Wonder who that sounds like. Hmm. I don't

33:39

know. But again, this

33:41

kind of does go back to Max.

33:43

I'm not putting blame on Max in

33:45

any way, but we do know

33:48

people battling with substance

33:51

abuse problems sometimes

33:54

sell their family stuff to get a

33:57

fix. It's quick, quick cash,

33:59

you know. grab some of the electronics

34:02

in the family home, take them to somebody

34:04

to give you a few bucks for them so

34:06

you can turn around and buy your next fix. Or they'll

34:09

trade them for drugs or whatever.

34:11

So you could see why police

34:14

would run down this angle, especially

34:16

with the details that have come out.

34:19

Viewers learned that when the police

34:21

looked at Robert's work computer, they

34:24

found he reportedly searched for an address

34:26

in Rhode Island, but this turned out

34:28

to be another dead end. The

34:30

police also looked at his personal computer,

34:33

but during the month before he

34:35

disappeared, Robertly apparently downloaded the

34:37

program, designed to clear all

34:39

internet searches. Why don't you

34:41

use that similar software? Yeah,

34:44

I do. You know, I've

34:46

talked about, you know, my

34:48

fear of dying and

34:52

we've talked about that pact that

34:55

we would clear each other's searches if

34:57

that ever happened. Yeah, and I

34:59

think you would, but just in case you

35:01

don't, I always register my laptop underneath your

35:03

name. Oh, okay. It just makes it simpler.

35:05

That makes a lot of sense. Robert

35:08

Hoagland was finally located nine

35:10

years after he disappeared, but

35:13

his discovery left his family and

35:15

investigators with far more questions than

35:18

answers. On December 5th, 2022, 59-year-old

35:20

Robert Hoagland was

35:24

found dead in Rock Hill, a

35:26

hamlet in upstate New York. Rock

35:29

Hill is a small town at the base

35:31

of the Catskill Mountains, located

35:33

just 90 miles from Newtown.

35:36

Only 90 miles, just up the road. That's

35:39

an hour and a half if you're

35:41

driving slowly. Yeah,

35:44

it's an hour and a half. Robert

35:46

was identified because the police found

35:49

paperwork with his real name on

35:51

it. He'd been living in Sullivan County,

35:53

New York since November, 2013 under the

35:55

alias Richard King. He

35:59

maintained... a low profile and

36:01

never got in trouble with the police, which

36:04

I think is very important. If

36:06

you're, I don't even want to

36:08

call it on the run, but he is kind

36:11

of on the run, not from the law so

36:13

much, but he's trying to not be discovered. Well,

36:16

you do need to keep a low profile

36:18

and you definitely need to not get

36:21

in trouble with police. You're going to

36:23

be discovered pretty quickly. And change your name

36:25

from Robert Hogan to Dick King. Yeah.

36:28

I mean, you can pick another name, but Dick

36:30

King is pretty cool. I just think

36:32

you should add the in front of it. Make

36:35

it very, um, regal.

36:37

Yes. Okay. There were no

36:39

signs of foul play in his death. Robert's

36:42

roommate who knew him only by his

36:44

alias called 911 at 3 PM on

36:46

December 5th to report

36:50

that Richard was having a

36:52

medical emergency. Robert's exact

36:54

cause of death was unknown. Newtown

36:56

detectives confirmed Robert's identity the

36:59

day after his death and

37:01

confirmed there was no criminal

37:03

aspect to his disappearance. Christopher

37:06

Hoagland told NBC at the time, it's

37:08

pretty confusing. We're trying to handle it

37:11

right now, to be honest.

37:13

Haven't really figured out any details.

37:16

I bet. That has to be

37:18

extremely confusing. Yeah. For Lori, the

37:21

kids. Okay. Dad

37:24

was alive. He's now dead, but he

37:27

just left us. Why? And

37:29

I would think you're sitting there

37:32

going, and we know that he

37:34

had to see that we were looking for him.

37:36

Oh, there's no doubt there would have been, you know,

37:40

media. He probably

37:42

would have seen being only 90 miles

37:44

away. I

37:47

just wonder if there comes a point where you're, you

37:50

leave because you think it's the thing

37:52

you need to do. And at

37:54

some point because you're gone so long, you

37:57

just say, you know what? Is this better if I just

37:59

don't. go back. Yeah, I

38:01

could see that scenario where maybe

38:04

he didn't plan on leaving forever. Yeah.

38:06

But at a certain point it's almost like if

38:09

I go back now, how am

38:11

I going to explain? Right. Why I've been

38:13

away for as long as I've been, you

38:15

know, how is my family going to react?

38:17

They're never going to really see me or

38:20

look at me the same way. Robert's

38:22

roommate, a 46 year old

38:24

music teacher, identified as David, spoke

38:27

to the Albany Times Union in

38:29

December 2022. The two men lived together

38:33

for nearly a decade. David

38:35

said about Robert, I just want people

38:37

to know there was nothing strange about

38:39

his life other than the fact

38:41

that he was able to disappear for nine

38:43

years. That's a big, strange

38:46

thing though. The fact that

38:48

he was able to disappear for nine years. Yeah.

38:50

David met Richard King. When Richard

38:52

responded to his ad for a

38:55

roommate, David moved to Rock Hill in 2012

38:57

to be closer to

38:59

work. And in the fall of 2013, he'd

39:01

recently separated from his wife. He placed

39:05

an ad on Craigslist to find

39:07

a roommate. Richard King responded and

39:10

told him he was new to the area.

39:12

David felt a little uncertain about

39:14

letting him move in because Richard

39:16

couldn't give him any ID. He

39:19

said he left everything behind. Well,

39:22

he was correct. Yeah. He didn't lie about

39:24

either of those. No, he was new

39:26

to the area and he

39:29

had left everything behind, including his wife

39:31

and kids. Richard did mention

39:33

that he was a real estate appraiser

39:36

and moved to Rock Hill after a

39:38

bitter divorce. He was

39:40

working for Empire Inspections and

39:42

Appraisals in Middletown, New York,

39:45

and drove a company car. The Times

39:47

Union reported that no one

39:49

by the name Richard King or

39:51

Robert Hoagland is licensed as a

39:53

residential real estate appraiser in New

39:56

York. However, the company still

39:58

hired him. The state D.M. be

40:00

also had no record of issuing

40:02

any ID to a man named

40:04

Richard King, born in June 1963.

40:08

So I mean, I think you have to

40:10

ask the question there, and it does come

40:12

up from time to time, what

40:15

type of vetting process, you know,

40:17

if any, did this company have?

40:19

Exactly. I mean, he could

40:21

probably talk shop because he knew how to

40:23

do appraisal work. Yeah, he had

40:25

done the job. But

40:28

you would think at the very least,

40:31

you'd have to show an ID. And

40:33

for that type of job, you would think you

40:35

would need to show your license.

40:38

Yeah, your certification, your license, you know,

40:40

that actually goes on the appraisal form.

40:43

An employee of the company who

40:45

knew David vouched for Richard, and

40:47

the two men made a rental

40:49

agreement. One of Richard's

40:51

coworkers told the Times Union, if it

40:54

helps, we all thought that Rich was

40:56

a good guy. Well, we knew him

40:58

as Rich, not Dick, as

41:01

you had thought. Well, you know, that's his

41:03

fault for not going with that. But I

41:05

get it. You know, these guys can seem

41:07

like a super guy, like a

41:09

great, hey, this guy's great. He's awesome. He's

41:11

such a nice guy. Maybe he was, you

41:13

know, but he had this one little

41:16

piece that he wasn't sharing with

41:18

everybody. And does it

41:20

make him not a nice guy? Not

41:23

nice to his family. Right. I mean,

41:25

you'd have to say that. What he did to

41:27

his family was pretty horrible. Absolutely. You

41:29

know, if he wanted out, he could

41:31

have just told them, yeah,

41:33

hey, I don't want to be married

41:36

anymore. I'm leaving. I

41:38

don't want to be a dad anymore. I guess

41:40

he would have had to have said, but it

41:43

almost seems very cowardly to

41:46

me to just run off

41:48

and leave. Yeah, I think, you know,

41:50

this is a good spot for a PSA. Like,

41:52

don't be a Dick King, you know. If

41:55

you left your family and they were worried about

41:57

you, pick up the phone and say, hey, want

42:00

to be around you guys anymore. I'm somewhere. Don't

42:02

worry about me. Good life to you.

42:04

Yeah. I just, you know, most

42:06

people would pronounce it Dick King. You

42:09

keep putting the emphasis on the first word and

42:11

it sounds very strange. Richard

42:13

moved into a spare room in

42:15

David's rental home. This violated David's

42:17

lease because he and his wife

42:19

for the, were the legal tenants

42:22

and sub leasing was prohibited. And

42:25

this is what really allowed Robert Hoagland

42:27

to avoid a credit check. Meaning

42:29

he really didn't have to show any

42:31

ID or go through any type of

42:33

credit check. Yeah. So if you're

42:35

on the run, you have

42:37

to find these very

42:39

certain types of situation.

42:41

Right. Right. You have to

42:43

get a place to live where you

42:46

don't have to show

42:48

all these valid forms

42:50

of ID, you don't have to go through a

42:52

credit check, you know, you got to

42:54

find a job at a place

42:56

that's willing to, or

42:58

routinely is kind of lax

43:00

on their vetting process. I

43:03

just think Robert was a pretty

43:05

smart guy to figure all this

43:07

out and to stay off the radar up

43:10

until the day he died. Yeah. I think

43:12

that's fair to say, you know, what we

43:15

don't know is how many jobs or employers

43:19

he had to go through before

43:22

he found one that would

43:24

allow him, you know, to work without

43:27

showing all this and

43:29

how many places to live he had to,

43:31

to look at, to

43:33

find the place that

43:35

would allow him to get in without,

43:38

you know, going through something that

43:40

would blow up his alias.

43:44

David's landlord told the Times union that

43:46

David renewed his lease in 2016, but

43:48

didn't mention

43:51

his roommate. David recalled that

43:53

Richard didn't bring much with him, just

43:55

a small bed and some clothes travel

43:58

light. $650

44:00

to start with. So 600 600.

44:02

Yeah, you're right. And so that plus

44:04

whatever he was making at his job

44:07

is all he had According

44:09

to David, he said he was divorced

44:11

his children were adults and he was

44:13

just looking to start a new life

44:15

So I was able to kind of

44:17

help him out. The two men became

44:19

close friends over the years David

44:22

called Robert aka Richard

44:25

a brother during the interview They

44:27

had Sunday dinners together and gave each

44:29

other gifts at Christmas Richard taught

44:31

David how to cook David

44:33

talked about him in phone calls with

44:35

his mother. She was happy that he

44:37

had a good friend So, I mean

44:40

these guys became very good friends. Yeah,

44:42

and I think that's going to happen When

44:45

you kind of live together for you know, almost

44:47

10 years Yeah, you're

44:49

gonna build some type of a good relationship. Otherwise,

44:51

you wouldn't be able to survive each other for

44:53

that long and

44:56

I think the relationship was really good because

44:58

David purchased a home in 2020

45:00

and Robert moved

45:02

in with him that tells you a lot right

45:04

there David initially wanted

45:06

a roommate because he needed help with

45:09

rent as he began to earn

45:11

more at the school He worked for and

45:13

had some success with his music career

45:16

He asked Richard to help with

45:18

utilities only Richard always paid him

45:20

cash David also put Richard

45:23

on his phone plan and gave him

45:25

an old iPhone because he didn't have

45:27

a good cell phone Yeah, because he left

45:29

his previous phone at home is

45:32

a reasonable home Well, and you know if

45:34

you don't want to go through the full-blown

45:38

Kind of credit check. What type of phones

45:40

are you able to get kind of

45:42

the flip burner phone?

45:44

Exactly So this

45:46

way he gets an iPhone doesn't have

45:48

to you know Set up his

45:50

own plan. You know, he really

45:53

had the perfect situation He

45:55

did, you know and he ended up being

45:58

friends with this guy, but it also sounds

46:00

like David needed a friend.

46:03

He liked Robert, aka

46:06

Richard, in his life. He

46:08

must have to do all these types of

46:10

things for him. Although they were

46:13

close, Richard didn't talk much

46:15

about his life. Before he got divorced,

46:17

he mentioned a family trip to Hilton

46:19

Head, South Carolina. And working with

46:21

one of his sons on a car,

46:23

he also told David that one of

46:26

his sons struggled with addiction. So

46:28

he did tell a lot of truths

46:31

in some of the talks. Well,

46:33

it makes it easier to hold the lie together when

46:35

you, you know, trinkle some truth

46:37

in there too. Did you say

46:40

trinkle? I did. Okay. So

46:42

is that a cross between sprinkle

46:44

and trickle? That's what

46:46

I'm thinking. Absolutely. Trinkle. Okay. We're going

46:48

to have to add that to the

46:50

Gibby dictionary. It's a perfect word. Although

46:53

Robert Hoagland tried to keep a

46:55

low profile, he wasn't reclusive. From

46:57

2017 to 2019, Robert volunteered at the town's

46:59

soup kitchen for Thanksgiving

47:05

and Christmas dinners. He once

47:07

posed in a group photo that was

47:09

published by the Times Union. Risky? That

47:11

is risky. But you know, you

47:14

talked about, is this a good guy? And

47:16

I think opinions are going to vary.

47:19

Obviously not a good guy to just run

47:21

out on your family. That part is

47:23

a given. But then you look at

47:25

his life. He wasn't doing bad things.

47:28

He was actually, you know, volunteering

47:31

at a soup kitchen. He

47:33

was working. He was, you know,

47:36

living his life. I just

47:38

think in his head for whatever

47:40

reason, you know, he thought, well,

47:42

my kids are adults. They

47:45

don't need me. They're adults. My job was

47:47

to get them to 18. Once

47:49

they're 18, they're on their own. Maybe that's how he thought.

47:51

Maybe he thinks, you know, because they were, had

47:54

been his wife were separated for a few years

47:56

or a couple of years that he

47:58

wasn't married. in his mind, you

48:01

know, and that's how he can justify

48:04

leaving them. It's still pretty

48:06

shitty way to do it, right? Yeah. Why not

48:08

have that conversation like, Hey, honey, babe,

48:10

things aren't working out. Uh, I'm going to go

48:12

ahead and move out. Hey boys, guess

48:14

what? I'm going to move because you're

48:17

18, 20, 22, whatever ages you are now. Good

48:21

luck to you. Wish you luck. I'm out of here,

48:24

but he doesn't do any of that.

48:26

He just quietly walks away. Yeah.

48:28

I understand what you're saying and I

48:31

think it's very, very possible. And he

48:33

actually could have thought that the way

48:35

that he did it was better

48:38

for them. You know, sometimes people in

48:40

their minds convince themselves of

48:42

things that we know not to be

48:44

true. That's true. And so,

48:47

or maybe he just didn't like

48:49

confrontation. Well, that's a big yes for

48:51

a lot of people. And didn't want to go through

48:53

the conversations that you just

48:55

talked about, which it would have

48:57

been tough, but we know would

48:59

have been the right thing to

49:01

do if, if that was your

49:03

plan program administrator, Kathy

49:06

Crier told the times union,

49:08

he was a little, I'm going to say

49:11

quirky in the beginning. Maybe it took him

49:13

a while to warm up. He

49:15

seemed more at ease the next time

49:17

he volunteered and seemed kind and passionate

49:19

about the work he was doing. So

49:22

it's almost like we're talking about

49:24

two different guys, right?

49:26

There's the Robert Houghland

49:29

that left his wife and kids kind of

49:31

high and dry. And then

49:33

there's Richard King, or

49:36

as you would call him Dick King, who was

49:39

a good roommate,

49:42

was volunteering at a soup

49:44

kitchen. Sounds like he performed well at work

49:46

because they kept them on. Yeah. So he

49:49

was doing all the things that a good

49:51

person would, would seem like they would do. He

49:53

wasn't getting in trouble with the law or anything

49:55

like that. Six months before

49:57

he died, Richard told David that. He

50:00

went to a doctor and the doctor

50:02

instructed him to change his diet. The

50:04

two men normally ate things like steak

50:06

and ribs for Sunday dinners, but they

50:09

started having seafood and vegetables instead. Oh,

50:11

those darn vegetables. I know. Got to

50:13

add those in to make things healthy.

50:15

What's wrong with steak and ribs? That's

50:18

your go-to. That's my main diet.

50:21

Towards the end of their time

50:23

together, Richard told David he might

50:25

start receiving mail in another person's

50:27

name. But he didn't offer any

50:30

type of explanation. David

50:32

didn't want to pry, but he wondered if

50:35

it had to do with Richard's medical problems

50:38

as his health had started to decline. I

50:41

don't know. If I had a roommate that I've been

50:44

friends with for 10 years, almost

50:46

10 years, and they said, Hey, I'm

50:48

going to probably get some mail in

50:51

another person's name. I don't

50:53

know. I think I'd probably pry. Yeah.

50:55

There's a part of me that thinks

50:57

that maybe David kind

51:00

of just assumed there was something

51:02

going on, but

51:05

knew that Richard didn't want to

51:07

talk about it. So it was kind of pointless

51:09

to bring it up. And he

51:11

thought, you know, he's a good guy.

51:13

Whatever it is that he's escaping. Let

51:16

him do his thing. Yeah. Don't wait up here. There's

51:18

a part of me that believes that's

51:20

possible. Sure. But I also

51:23

had this question of,

51:25

you know, how do you go to

51:27

the doctor as Richard

51:29

King, you're obviously going to

51:32

be a new patient and you're not

51:34

going to have any medical history at

51:36

all. Well, I mean, you can make

51:38

some type of story up on why you don't

51:40

have a history, you know, and just hope that

51:42

they believe it. I've never been to

51:44

the doctor before in my life. Yeah. Because what else

51:46

are you going to say? I guess,

51:48

yeah, I guess that's possible. David went

51:50

to bed early on the night of December 2nd, 2022,

51:53

because he had a music

51:56

gig in New York city the next day.

51:58

Richard came home after. he went to

52:00

sleep. Robert was captured

52:02

by David's home security footage

52:05

entering the house. He held his

52:07

back as if he were in pain. Richard

52:09

often worked on Saturday, so David was

52:12

surprised to see his car in the

52:14

garage. When he left to go to

52:16

the city, he assumed his roommate was

52:18

taking the day off. He didn't see

52:20

or hear from Richard all day. David

52:22

reviewed his home security footage

52:24

and saw that Richard came

52:27

home Friday night. Then Richard skipped

52:29

their Sunday dinner, which was highly unusual.

52:32

By Monday, David was extremely worried.

52:34

Richard normally left for work before David did,

52:37

so when he saw his car in the

52:39

garage, he knew something was wrong. He

52:41

texted and called his roommate multiple times

52:43

from work and received no response. David

52:46

asked a friend to stop by the house and

52:48

no one answered the door. So David

52:51

left work. To check on Richard, he entered

52:53

his bedroom and found him lying in bed

52:55

with his arms over his chest and

52:58

an eye mask on his face. Richard

53:00

was dead. Does it

53:02

seem a little odd that during

53:04

this whole time you were like

53:06

wondering like why is his car here?

53:09

I don't know why he's not

53:11

answering, but you never go to the

53:14

bedroom door and just kind of like knock

53:16

knock and slowly turn the handle like hey

53:18

buddy hey are you in here? Yeah, I

53:20

thought it was a little strange. You know

53:22

as we were going through it, you

53:25

know it's two or three days.

53:27

Yeah. Of kind of thinking well

53:29

that's odd. His car's in the

53:31

garage, he sees that he

53:34

came home Friday night, but by

53:36

Monday hadn't seen him.

53:38

Right. So and it's

53:41

not like they don't live in

53:43

the same place. It wouldn't have been that hard to

53:45

kind of check on him. Kind of go down the

53:47

hallway and turn the knob. Yeah, I like

53:49

the fact that when you said it you actually

53:52

made a knocking motion and then you made

53:54

a door turning motion. I'm very visual. Just

53:56

to make sure that I understood exactly what

53:59

I was saying. you were talking about.

54:01

I know sometimes you don't. But

54:03

I'm with you. I did think it was a little

54:05

strange. After his roommate

54:07

died, David researched his

54:09

roommate and found out the truth about his

54:11

identity and past. He told the Times Union,

54:14

I don't know why he did it. I'm sure

54:16

he had great reasons. David

54:19

also said in his interview, he lived a

54:21

very simple life. And that's why I think

54:23

he was able to just go under the

54:26

radar. He didn't bother anyone. He

54:28

was very kind, very helpful. He just

54:31

was that kind of person. I think

54:33

he kind of was that person. And I think he

54:36

had to be that type of person to

54:38

make it benefit

54:40

him to not be picked up on the

54:42

radar. Yeah, I would agree with you. It's

54:44

just like not getting in trouble with police.

54:47

You also don't want

54:49

to go around rubbing everybody the wrong

54:51

way. You don't want to be getting

54:53

into people's faces and getting in fights

54:56

because that's how you get

54:58

remembered. Yeah. So just

55:00

being kind of a nice guy and

55:02

flying under the radar, that's the way

55:04

not to be noticed. Yeah.

55:07

And that's the same principle that Whitey

55:09

Bolger took when he moved out

55:11

to California. Absolutely. Didn't work out

55:13

for him in the end, but yeah. The

55:16

Times Union reported that few

55:19

local business owners recognized Robert's

55:21

photo when asked about him

55:23

after his death. One

55:25

woman who lived across the street from

55:27

Robert and David said she

55:29

didn't know who they were, but many

55:31

neighborhood residents were newcomers to town.

55:34

David's neighbor knew Robert because

55:36

they had attended barbecues where

55:39

Robert cooked for everyone. Officials

55:41

from the Newtown Police Department announced

55:44

they had no plans to

55:46

disclose additional information about Robert

55:49

and express their sympathies to the

55:51

family. Well, they probably didn't have any

55:53

additional information to disclose. And

55:56

even if they did, they said they

55:58

weren't going to, but you're right. I mean, what

56:01

additional information would there be? This

56:04

guy, Robert Houghland left

56:06

his family. They knew where he went.

56:09

They, you know, ultimately found out

56:11

where he had been living, what name

56:13

he had been living under, where he

56:16

was working, where he

56:18

was volunteering at a

56:20

soup kitchen. I don't know what

56:22

else there would have been to disclose. And

56:25

I didn't see anything about any

56:27

significant other during this nine

56:29

year period of time. No, no,

56:32

I didn't either. And I have

56:34

a couple of thoughts on that. Maybe

56:36

he just decided that

56:39

he'd had enough of relationships,

56:41

didn't need one. Right. Or

56:43

maybe he thought that by

56:45

getting in a relationship, it

56:47

would possibly cause

56:50

him to be found out. Yeah. It's

56:52

a risk. It was a risk that

56:55

he wasn't willing to take. I don't know.

56:57

And I don't know that David had partners

57:00

during this time. So it just

57:03

seemed like, you know, these guys were there

57:06

for each other. Good buddies. During

57:08

the, this nine, 10 year

57:11

period. But as

57:13

we wrap this one up, you

57:15

know, Robert Houghland's disappearance and death

57:17

still kind of, you know, remain a

57:20

mystery. It does. Because

57:22

no one really knows why

57:25

this normal family man decided

57:27

to abandon his wife and

57:29

children and start a new

57:31

life. It wasn't like

57:33

it differed all that much from

57:36

his old life with

57:38

the exception that, you know,

57:40

there was no wife or kids in

57:42

his life. It wasn't like he

57:44

was robbing banks or had a ton of

57:46

money. He was just going to work and.

57:49

Or had his other woman. Right. That he

57:51

wanted to be with. Right. I mean, I

57:53

think that's part of the mystery. You

57:56

would think there would be

57:58

some underlying reason. that

58:00

would come to the surface as to

58:03

why he just decided to up and

58:05

disappear. And if you were

58:07

his wife or kids, wouldn't

58:09

you almost hope that there

58:12

was a reason, you know, like,

58:14

yeah, he wanted to be with this

58:16

other woman or this other family, wouldn't

58:19

like it, but at least it would

58:21

help you make sense of why he

58:23

did what he did. Versus, he

58:25

just got up and left because he didn't want to be

58:27

around us anymore. Yeah, I get

58:29

what you're saying. There have been stories where,

58:31

you know, let's say a guy has

58:34

another family and that

58:37

family is unknown to the family he

58:39

lives with. Okay,

58:41

that would maybe be a

58:43

reason you could point to for

58:45

why he disappeared, changed his

58:48

name, and maybe he was living with

58:50

this new family. But like you

58:53

said, without that kind of big

58:55

explanation, and you're

58:58

not going to get it because the guy died, you've

59:00

got Laurie, you've got the kids, they

59:03

already felt terrible, right?

59:05

And I think this just kind of adds

59:08

a level to it because

59:11

it's still mysterious. They're probably

59:13

never going to know other

59:15

than he didn't want to be with

59:17

them. Yeah. And that's not something that's

59:20

going to make you feel good. No, I mean,

59:22

it's an intriguing case. Also,

59:25

tragedy, right? It means tragedy that he

59:27

left his family. It's tragedy that he

59:29

died. At the end of the day,

59:31

the family's still here and they have to live with

59:34

the fact that they lost their dad and

59:37

her husband and they lost them

59:39

before that because... I was going to say,

59:41

how do you grieve the death

59:43

of this man? I'm not saying you

59:45

don't, I'm just asking the question, how

59:47

do you do it? Because it's almost

59:49

like you didn't know who he was.

59:52

Yeah. He thought you did. There

59:54

could be some anger there, but... Until, you

59:56

know, he up and left. No

59:58

one knows why Robert chose... was to relocate

1:00:00

less than a hundred miles away from

1:00:03

the family and the authorities

1:00:05

who were searching for him. I

1:00:07

thought that was strange as well. Sure. You

1:00:09

know, when there was that one sighting in

1:00:11

California, that would make sense. You

1:00:14

know, Connecticut to California, that's a long

1:00:16

ways away. Right. But no, he

1:00:18

chooses to go just, you know, up

1:00:20

the road 90 minutes. And

1:00:22

I think that one sighting at that

1:00:25

one saver store probably could

1:00:27

have been him with the New York tags on

1:00:29

this, on the plate. Um, but

1:00:32

obviously he was very good at keeping

1:00:34

off the radar. Yeah. If you

1:00:36

can do it for 10 years

1:00:40

plus, then it tells

1:00:42

me that he was

1:00:44

very disciplined about it because

1:00:47

I think there are a lot of pitfalls that you

1:00:49

could get tripped up, right?

1:00:52

Every day during that period

1:00:54

of time. And he must've been

1:00:57

really good at avoiding them. Now,

1:00:59

some of that comes from not

1:01:02

being around a lot of people and

1:01:04

doing that, but then he goes out

1:01:06

of his way to volunteer at this

1:01:08

soup kitchen and even allows himself to

1:01:10

be photographed. Well, maybe he just had

1:01:12

a strong, uh, let's

1:01:14

say strong heart, strong. Sense of

1:01:16

wanting to give back. Yeah.

1:01:19

And maybe that helped balance out

1:01:22

the feelings he had about

1:01:24

abandoning his wife and kids.

1:01:27

It was his way to try to make, make

1:01:29

it right. And his mind. So

1:01:31

we just don't know. So as

1:01:33

much as we're confused and trying to

1:01:35

figure out, I'm just trying to

1:01:38

put myself in, in the shoes of Lori

1:01:40

and the kids and thinking they

1:01:42

had to have been going out of their minds,

1:01:44

trying to figure out why he did what he

1:01:46

did. You know, I feel for

1:01:48

Lori. She was left to pick up all the pieces because

1:01:52

at the end of the day, there had

1:01:54

to be some motivating

1:01:56

factor that caused Robert

1:01:59

to want. The

1:02:01

problem is we don't know what it

1:02:03

was and if the police know they

1:02:05

haven't made it public. Aliens?

1:02:08

Can I, okay. Sasquatch then.

1:02:10

I'll just throw that in there. Just tossing some,

1:02:12

you know, things out there. Except it would

1:02:14

be Bigfoot, right, because we're in North America. That's

1:02:17

right. But it's just such a strange

1:02:19

case. Nobody was killed.

1:02:22

No. Nobody was

1:02:25

physically hurt. No. You

1:02:27

could definitely say that

1:02:29

he hurt his family emotionally.

1:02:32

Absolutely. And who knows

1:02:35

how deeply and what toll his

1:02:37

actions, you know, ultimately took on them.

1:02:40

But it's just one

1:02:42

of those very mysterious cases of

1:02:45

a guy who just up

1:02:47

and left and we have no idea

1:02:49

why. And never will. And

1:02:51

never will at this point. But that's

1:02:54

it for our episode on Robert

1:02:56

Hoagland. We have some voicemails, Gibb.

1:02:58

Do you want to check those out? Let's hear them. Hey,

1:03:01

Mike and Gibb. This is Ashlea

1:03:04

from Laramie, Wyoming. Originally from Chillicothe,

1:03:06

Ohio, so not too far from

1:03:09

you guys. I was

1:03:11

just listening to the latest

1:03:13

episode, Adam Emery, and

1:03:16

you made a comment that Gibb would

1:03:18

have his own restaurant called Gibby. And

1:03:21

I just wanted you to know that

1:03:23

there is a restaurant in Circleville, Ohio

1:03:25

called Gibby's. And it is a sports

1:03:28

bar restaurant. And it's

1:03:30

pretty good. So maybe Gibby needs

1:03:32

to make a little road trip and go

1:03:35

meet his kinfolk there in Circleville. So I just

1:03:37

want to let you guys know I love the

1:03:39

show. I love the episodes. You guys do a

1:03:41

great job. And

1:03:43

I just enjoy your content and look forward to more episodes.

1:03:47

So y'all stay safe and keep

1:03:49

your time ticking. Bye. All

1:03:51

right. Appreciate it. Sounds like

1:03:53

a road trip to Circleville. Yeah,

1:03:55

everybody. Everybody listening. Circleville

1:03:58

at Gibby's. You

1:04:00

don't even know your own

1:04:02

name. Circle Bill at Gibby's

1:04:04

on March, uh, come

1:04:07

up with some date, you know, we all just

1:04:09

show up there and, uh, make sure they're open

1:04:11

first and Gibby is buying and we're. No,

1:04:14

no, see that's where you ruin it, man. You

1:04:17

can invite people and not pay. I'll

1:04:20

say what? That's wrong. I'll, I'll get the

1:04:22

first waters on me. Okay. How

1:04:24

about that? That makes a lot of sense.

1:04:26

Yeah. Hey, Mike and Gibby,

1:04:28

I'm calling about the Emory case.

1:04:31

And I grew up in the

1:04:33

town of James town there and

1:04:35

was a fisherman. I've actually done

1:04:37

that run, um, of telling the

1:04:39

Met underneath the bridge. Many times.

1:04:41

Um, I just wanted to throw

1:04:43

out one other possibility. Uh, if

1:04:45

you get a bone in the

1:04:47

Met and you turn it in,

1:04:49

they compensate the whole load. And

1:04:51

even if that's not true, but

1:04:53

most of the fishermen believe that.

1:04:55

And so it's entirely under the

1:04:57

possibility realm of a fisherman

1:04:59

actually dragging that body of Adams

1:05:01

up until the end of the

1:05:03

fishing toe and discovering the bones

1:05:06

and just telling the crew or

1:05:08

himself just throwing it off. Uh,

1:05:10

you got to feed your family.

1:05:13

And, uh, so now the body would

1:05:15

be displaced way up into the bay

1:05:17

and where, uh, other nets, because it's

1:05:19

the end of the line, aren't going

1:05:21

to go. And so I just wanted

1:05:23

to throw out that, that little kid

1:05:25

that loved the show on team Mike

1:05:27

and, uh, keep your own time ticking.

1:05:29

Aloha. Wow. Great voicemail. I

1:05:32

love when we get voicemails from people

1:05:34

who not only live in

1:05:36

the area, but have actually done something

1:05:39

that we talked about, you know,

1:05:41

for a living or, or whatever, because

1:05:43

that's something you and I would never

1:05:45

think about. No, not at all, but

1:05:48

very believable. Yeah. I can see that being the

1:05:50

reason, you know? I mean, you're not going to

1:05:52

want to hand over your catch

1:05:55

for the day. Yeah. Who knows how

1:05:57

much money that's worth, but I'm.

1:06:00

sure it's a tidy sum. So,

1:06:03

and it almost sounds like that could have happened

1:06:05

a few times, displacing

1:06:07

everything, you know, much further down the

1:06:09

line. So to the point it's so

1:06:11

far out that it no longer gets

1:06:13

picked up. Yeah. Yeah. So amazing commentary.

1:06:16

We really appreciate it. But

1:06:19

that is it buddy for another episode

1:06:21

of true crime all the time unsolved.

1:06:23

So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe

1:06:25

and keep your own time ticking. Pluto

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