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1:25

Hi, everyone. This is Jillian with Court Junkie.

1:27

Court Junkie is a true crime podcast that

1:30

covers court cases and criminal trials.

1:32

Using audio clips and interviews with people

1:34

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1:36

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1:39

podcast one dot com.

2:17

Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode

2:19

305 of the True Crime All The

2:21

Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson.

2:23

And with me as always, as I'm a partner in True Crime,

2:25

Mike Gibson. Give me how are you? Hey man, I'm doing

2:28

okay. Yeah. Your voice is better this

2:30

week. It was it was a little

2:32

rough last

2:33

week. I'm

2:33

definitely getting better, which is good.

2:36

Good to hear. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon

2:38

shout outs. We had Aaron Hawkins.

2:40

Jump out at our highest level. Hey, Aaron.

2:42

Tanya Mormon. What's going on, Tanya? Terry

2:44

Stewart. Hey, Terry. Ladonna

2:46

Flores. Oh, I appreciate that. Ladonna.

2:48

Miranda Black. Hey,

2:50

Miranda. Shannon Peterson.

2:52

What's up Shannon?

2:53

Leah g. Hey, there's Leah. Lynn

2:55

Ryan. What's going on,

2:56

Lynn? Jackie Diaz. Hey,

2:59

Jackie. Tracy Montgomery jumped out of their

3:01

highest level. Hey. Good old Tracy. Cody

3:03

Reemer's mud jumped out of their highest

3:05

level. Hey, Cody. We had Ryan Pesicka

3:07

Hey. Thank you, Ryan. Nicole Lo. Hi,

3:10

Nicole. Donelle. What's up, Donelle?

3:12

Big Dave. Oh, big

3:15

Dave. China. Pelke. Hey,

3:17

Turner. Lianne Room. appreciate

3:19

that, Lianne. And last but not

3:20

least, Katie Whitholme.

3:22

Hey. Hi, Katie. And then if we go back into the

3:24

ball. This

3:26

week, we selected Meghan caps

3:28

Seawong.

3:29

Or is Meghan double g? Yeah. So we appreciate

3:31

all that support. We had great

3:34

PayPal donations from Mark Gaston.

3:36

Hey, Gaston. Monica Abner. Appreciate

3:38

that, Abner. And Marissa, Stalker.

3:40

Awesome Stalker. Yep. Thanks to everyone.

3:43

Gives right now. We have an episode out

3:45

on True Crime all the time on

3:47

Robert Chambers. A guy

3:49

who, the press, dubbed

3:52

the Preppy Killer. This

3:54

is back in nineteen eighty six. Chamber

3:57

is eventually admitted to

3:59

killing eighteen year old Jennifer

4:01

Levin who was found dead in Central

4:03

Park after a night out.

4:05

But he claimed that it happened on accident

4:08

after Jennifer injured him during

4:11

rough sec. So this was a case that received

4:13

a lot of attention. It's fairly well

4:15

known. Yeah. And to me, it's very

4:17

interesting because you

4:19

have this guy essentially

4:22

saying that the

4:24

victim was the aggressor she

4:27

molested him and he acted

4:29

in self

4:29

defense, old testicle squeeze. That's

4:32

exactly how it went

4:33

down. Or so he claimed. Exactly.

4:36

Alright, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode

4:38

of True Crime all the

4:39

time, Unsolved?

4:40

I am. We're talking about the

4:43

BrasherDye Disappearances.

4:46

In March nineteen fifty six,

4:48

two brothers and their cousin went

4:50

missing in rural Alabama. After

4:53

a night of drinking. Decades later,

4:55

they've never been found. And no one

4:57

knows for certain what happened to them,

5:00

although there is suspicion. That

5:02

they were killed by local moonshineers.

5:05

The three men who went missing were

5:07

twenty three year old Robert Earl

5:10

Dye nineteen year old, Billy

5:12

Howard Eye, and thirty eight year

5:14

old, Daniel Alec Robert

5:16

and Billy were brothers who lived in

5:19

Fulton Dale

5:20

Alabama. Dan BrasherDye

5:22

in Morris. Alabama. Do

5:24

you ever get any trouble with your cousins?

5:27

No. I I don't I don't have any cousins.

5:30

Really? No. I don't have any cousins either.

5:32

Oh, okay. I see what you're saying.

5:34

Either one. I'm an only child,

5:36

but that doesn't mean you can't have cousins. No.

5:39

No. I I dad on it. Tom does it, but

5:41

my dad was an only child And

5:43

my mom had two brothers and neither

5:45

of them had children. Really? Mhmm.

5:48

And let's say, kinda

5:50

explains a little bit about you. It

5:52

explains why I have no cousins. It's

5:54

what it is. Way more than that. But yeah. The

5:57

Die BrasherDye parent said they had never

5:59

spent a night away from home. And

6:01

couldn't have navigated across

6:03

the city of Birmingham. One

6:05

relative told the Birmingham news,

6:08

They didn't like to get out in the world,

6:10

wouldn't even eat in a cafe. Robert

6:13

Dye had a wife named Audrey, Dan

6:15

BrasherDye been away from home before, but

6:18

always wrote to his family when he was gone.

6:20

He had three children from a

6:22

previous marriage. I get it.

6:24

This is nineteen fifty six. We're

6:26

talking about but we're also talking

6:29

about two brothers who were nineteen and twenty

6:31

three years old.

6:32

Yeah.

6:33

And didn't even

6:35

want to eat in a cafe, just

6:37

didn't wanna get out in the world. That's what was

6:39

said about them. It was a little harder,

6:42

I guess, to get out in the world in nineteen

6:44

fifty six. You're in rural

6:46

Alabama too. Maybe I don't know. Just -- Yeah.

6:48

-- seems

6:48

like maybe little sheltered.

6:50

I can't imagine it was that hard to get the

6:52

Birmingham, though, if you really wanted

6:54

to. It just sounds like they didn't want to.

6:57

Around the time they Disappearances

6:59

men were working on the construction of

7:02

the new Highway thirty one. Their

7:04

uncle, Reverend R. E.

7:07

Told the Birmingham news, we don't

7:09

believe they ever left this

7:11

facility. They didn't have, but about

7:13

twenty five dollars between them when they

7:16

disappeared. So they had

7:18

this twenty five dollars or so

7:20

between them the night before they went missing,

7:22

but apparently they had spent all but

7:24

nine of it. By the time they were

7:27

last seen. This was according to the Birmingham

7:29

news. Now, some sources

7:32

differ on the date the disappearances,

7:35

some say March third, some say March

7:37

fourth, but the majority of sources

7:39

used for this episode, state that

7:42

the three men went missing sometime

7:44

in the early morning hours of March

7:47

fourth. So that's the date we'll use.

7:49

On the night of March third,

7:52

in the early morning of March fourth,

7:54

the three men were out, what a lot of sources

7:56

called making drinking rounds

7:58

and not another source called it a

8:00

drinking party. And the Birmingham

8:03

News called it a drinking spree

8:05

that stretched from the Robinwood

8:08

area to

8:08

Morris.

8:09

You probably been on a little drinking spree

8:11

back in your day. I've been on some pub

8:13

crawls, but I don't think that's what they're

8:15

talking about. Here, and I don't think

8:17

so. Have you ever been on a pub

8:19

pub crawl? Oh, yeah. What did

8:21

I say that? So Yeah. I

8:23

don't even know why I asked the question. For

8:26

all I know you invented them and

8:28

and but I should have assumed

8:30

that you'd have been on a number of them.

8:32

The three men were last seen in the early

8:34

morning hours of March fourth at the

8:36

home of Dan BrasherDye near

8:39

Moore's Alabama there was a party

8:41

at the House that night. Ellen

8:43

Bracher said the men left

8:45

her house and Billy dies nineteen

8:47

forty seven Dark Green Ford.

8:50

According to Deputy Sheriff, D.

8:52

M. Denkin, the men had an

8:54

argument before they disappeared and

8:56

they were drinking heavily that night.

8:59

And a lot of times, those

9:01

two go hand in hand. Get a lot of

9:03

alcohol in you, arguments

9:06

tend to break out. In my experience

9:09

happens a lot. Robert's wife,

9:11

Audrey, reported that they drove her

9:13

home from the BrasherDye and

9:15

let her out of the vehicle in the early

9:17

morning hours of March fourth. They took

9:20

another couple, Earl

9:22

and Charlene Boatwright. To their

9:24

home near Robinwood. The

9:26

group then went back to Dan BrasherDye

9:29

Ellen said that Dan and Robert

9:31

came inside for a few minutes. Between

9:33

two and three AM, Billy stayed

9:35

in the car. They laughed a few minutes

9:38

later, the men were lassing heading

9:40

west on Crooked Creek Road.

9:43

So, I mean, the one thing that definitely

9:45

jumps out at me is that

9:48

these men were driving all

9:50

over the place drunk.

9:52

Yeah. I mean, drunk is a skunk is what

9:55

it sounds like. Now, it was the fifties.

9:58

I'm sure that happened lot more than it

10:00

does

10:00

today, doesn't make it right. Yeah.

10:02

I think, you know, they were drinking

10:05

illegal booze, driving

10:07

illegally. Probably not good.

10:09

We know it's not good. Not probably it's not good.

10:12

The Morse area was described by

10:14

the Birmingham news as remote

10:17

and rugged and Crooked

10:19

Creek Road was located in

10:21

what was called the heart of North

10:23

Jefferson's moonshine bill This

10:26

quote refers to Jefferson County,

10:28

Alabama. Good old moonshine.

10:31

So we are going to be talking about moonshine.

10:34

Quite a bit in this episode, but

10:36

I wanna cover the events of the night

10:39

in a little bit more detail. According

10:41

to the Birmingham news, people who lived

10:43

near Ellen BrasherDye reported hearing

10:46

what sounded like a prolonged

10:48

fight and loud shuffling

10:50

screams around midnight on

10:53

March third. People who were present

10:55

at the house said that Dan

10:57

BrasherDye Billy Dye. Had an argument,

11:00

but were on friendly terms

11:02

by the time they left. And I just

11:05

said that heavy

11:07

amounts of alcohol and arguments

11:10

kinda go hand in hand. I also

11:12

think maybe you can make up pretty quickly. You're

11:14

drunk, you're getting an argument, and then

11:16

you're, like, best buddies again. Yeah. Yeah.

11:18

You get you go full circle. The

11:20

Birmingham news reported that

11:22

the wasn't all that serious. Billy

11:25

Dye was drinking heavily and

11:27

jumped on Dan in the kitchen. Dan

11:29

apparently slapped Billy down, but

11:32

they patch things up. At

11:34

least twice during the party, Dan

11:36

and the dies went out to get more whiskey.

11:38

The party broke up around ten thirty

11:40

PM. The men laughed in Billy's

11:42

car with Audrey and the boatwright.

11:45

According

11:45

to the Birmingham news, Audrey

11:47

and the boatwright said they went straight to the

11:49

die house. In Fulton Dale. It

11:51

wasn't more than fifteen miles from

11:54

the BrasherDye to the Dye House, but

11:56

it was reported. That they didn't get

11:58

there until around

12:00

twelve to twelve forty five AM.

12:02

It's a pretty big gap. It's a long

12:05

time to go fifteen miles. Yeah.

12:07

Obviously something was going on

12:09

in that span of about two

12:12

hours or so. Then the three men

12:14

dropped the boat rights off in Robinwood

12:17

earl boat ride said that his last

12:19

words were to warn them not to go back

12:21

to the still and morris or

12:23

you'll get in trouble. The men returned

12:26

to Dan BrasherDye house where

12:28

three other men had arrived at the party.

12:30

At least one of them was

12:32

well known in the bootleg racket.

12:34

And he'd had trouble with Dan BrasherDye

12:37

in the past. Dan and Robert

12:39

went inside for just a few minutes and quickly

12:41

left. The three men also got into

12:43

their car and left immediately

12:46

after Billy died. A few sources

12:48

mentioned a party in Robinwood. And

12:51

one popular theory in the case

12:53

is that the men were killed at this party.

12:55

For example, on March twentieth nineteen

12:57

fifty six, The Birmingham post Harold

13:00

reported that relatives said the men

13:02

were lassing at the home of

13:04

Ellen BrasherDye. Morris, the

13:06

deputy sheriff Denkin. Said that

13:08

missus BrasherDye was the only one

13:10

who maintained that they were last seen at

13:12

her house. Others told him

13:15

they were last seen near Robin Woods. Where

13:17

they took another couple home. Alabama

13:19

heritage reported in a two thousand

13:22

sixteen article. They drove off in

13:24

Billy's nineteen forty seven Green

13:26

Ford for a party in

13:28

Robin with just outside Morris.

13:30

A nineteen eighty four Birmingham post

13:32

Harold article also talks

13:34

about a party. More drinking and

13:37

that they were on their way to a

13:39

larger party in Robinwood late

13:42

in the evening. BrasherDye the dies left

13:44

the party in Billy's fourth. Though one

13:46

has admitted seeing them since.

13:49

When the Die BrasherDye and Dan didn't

13:51

come home the next day. Their families weren't

13:54

very concerned. All of them were known

13:56

as heavy drinkers. Their relatives assumed

13:58

that they might have been arrested. When

14:01

they hadn't heard from them in several days,

14:03

their cousin Curtis BrasherDye and his

14:05

father checked the jails between Morris

14:07

and Decatur Alabama, but didn't

14:09

find anything. The family filed a missing

14:12

persons report with the Jefferson

14:14

County Sheriff's Department. Officers

14:16

thought one factor in the disappearance was

14:19

the theft of eighty five to

14:21

hundred gallons of moonshot, which

14:23

was reportedly stolen the

14:25

day before they went missing. A

14:27

moon chiner they allegedly stole

14:29

from was reportedly among

14:31

the gas at the party on the night

14:33

they went missing. So to

14:36

me, that's one of the three men that

14:38

we talked about who then

14:40

got in the car and followed

14:42

them. A

14:43

hundred gallons of moonshine's a lot of moonshine.

14:46

hundred gallons of anything is a lot. Well,

14:48

that's But, you know,

14:50

if you're a moonshine, and

14:52

that's your livelihood to

14:54

lose eighty five to a hundred gallons

14:57

and you know who stole it. Yeah.

15:00

Yeah, you're gonna be pretty upset, and

15:03

it's a criminal endeavor. So

15:06

my thought is would they hesitate to

15:08

do something else criminal such

15:10

as do away with that individual?

15:13

Probably not. Yeah. I don't think they'd lose sleep

15:15

over it. By March eleventh,

15:17

Sheriff's officers were still searching for

15:19

the three men. We talked about them

15:22

working construction on Highway

15:24

thirty one And apparently, they never

15:27

collected their last paychecks. So

15:29

that led police to suspect

15:32

foul play. Mary Anne Dye

15:34

said that he received his son's

15:36

checks on March twelfth. They

15:38

were paid thirty two twenty five

15:40

and fifty one twelve. Which was

15:42

the most money the men had

15:44

ever made in a week. Marion

15:47

believed that if they left voluntarily, they

15:49

would have picked up their money.

15:51

And I always think that, you know,

15:53

anytime we're talking about an unsolved case,

15:56

you know, it comes up. Right?

15:58

What people leave behind? And,

16:01

okay, thirty two dollars and twenty five cents,

16:03

fifty one dollars. It doesn't sound like a lot

16:05

of money. It was a lot more in nineteen

16:07

fifty six. And when you hear that this was the

16:09

most money they'd ever made in a week,

16:11

okay, if they're taken off, they

16:14

would want that money unless

16:17

they had to get away so quickly. They

16:19

didn't have time to come back. Yeah.

16:21

They couldn't wait to come back and

16:23

and get the checks or

16:25

obviously there was something along

16:27

the lines of foul play -- Right. -- that prevented

16:30

them from coming back. On March twelfth,

16:32

members of the search party found freshly

16:35

dug earth in the horse

16:37

branchill area, a few miles

16:39

south of Morris, the team planned to

16:41

dig on the thirteenth. But they

16:43

learned that the fresh dirt was dug up

16:46

by a company surveying the area.

16:48

I think anytime you're part of a search party,

16:51

or your law enforcement searching and

16:53

you find freshly dug

16:55

earth that's gonna peak your interest. Yes.

16:57

Calls were alarm. You're gonna wanna check that

16:59

out. But then you find out

17:01

that this is not what we

17:04

thought it it might have been because

17:06

there's a company digging,

17:08

yeah, here. Just a false alarm.

17:10

According to the Birmingham News, deputy

17:13

sheriff Dinkin told the press ten days

17:15

after the men went missing, there's no

17:17

question about it. There was some

17:19

foul play somewhere. And

17:21

it's always interesting in these cases

17:24

when that kind of

17:26

determination is made. It's

17:28

one thing to think it, to theorize

17:31

it, but it's another thing to

17:33

tell the paper once you make that decision.

17:36

To come out and make it, you know,

17:38

of record, that's a big

17:40

deal. It is. You're committing to what

17:42

you're saying. Thinking said that everything

17:44

indicated the men were still in the morris

17:47

area, but nothing concrete had

17:49

been found yet. In the following days

17:51

and weeks. Search parties looked at old

17:53

logging roads, deserted mines,

17:55

and streams, but found nothing. Investigators

17:58

received many reports and they heard a lot

18:01

of rumors, but they found no evidence

18:03

leading to the Dye brothers and Dan

18:05

BrasherDye witness in nearby Penson

18:08

reported that three men were fighting

18:10

in front of his home around three AM.

18:12

He recognized one of them as Dan

18:14

BrasherDye other two men did not

18:16

match the description of the dimes. A

18:19

man in Morris reported hearing gunshots

18:21

on March third, A man who lived

18:23

in Robinwood said that on March

18:25

fourth, some men carried

18:27

multiple tubs of water from his

18:30

outdoor faucet into a nearby

18:32

party house which didn't have running water.

18:34

A family member and an investigator,

18:37

believe the water was used to clean up

18:39

a crime scene. Finally, a man

18:41

in Blount County claimed he

18:43

saw a bulldozer burying a

18:45

car in a construction site

18:48

near US Highway seventy

18:49

nine, which was under construction at

18:52

that time.

18:52

I think it's gonna be hard for witness to mistakenly

18:55

see a car being buried. Think

18:58

it's gonna be pretty

18:58

clear. Look, they're bearing a car. Why

19:00

are they bearing a car at this time?

19:03

Mistake it for something

19:06

else. Right. Yeah. I mean, heavy

19:08

equipment, you see a car. They're

19:10

not planting flowers, obviously.

19:13

But the thing that jumps out at me is,

19:15

so we have all these reports. Some

19:17

of them involving, reportedly,

19:21

Dan BrasherDye. We've got

19:23

cars being buried,

19:25

And what about this guy, you know, where

19:27

people are just coming up and getting water from

19:29

his outdoor faucet?

19:31

Don't you think at one point you're like, hey,

19:33

That's my faucet.

19:34

Why he keep taking my water? According

19:37

to the Birmingham News on March sixteenth,

19:39

Denkin reiterated his beliefs that

19:41

the men were met with foul play. He said,

19:44

all indications are the men ran into

19:46

some trouble. Somewhere along the way

19:48

the day they disappeared, thinking

19:50

called it the most baffling case I've ever

19:52

tried to follow. But I get what he's saying,

19:55

you know, all indications or that

19:57

they ran into trouble, sure. They haven't

19:59

showed up. They haven't collected

20:02

their checks. Nobody's seen them.

20:04

Nobody's heard from them. I would

20:06

say it's pretty safe bet. They ran

20:08

into some type of trouble, most

20:11

likely foul play. Yeah. By

20:13

March nineteenth, The search party

20:15

was starting to fizzle out. The search has

20:17

started to affect the local moonshining industry

20:20

in Morris. Deputy sheriff, B.

20:22

M. Jenkins. And Deputy JF

20:24

Mitchell destroyed four big

20:26

stills as they extended the

20:29

search. I'm sure as they were going

20:31

through the woods of these different

20:33

areas coming across these stills

20:36

are

20:36

like, okay, don't find the guys,

20:39

but let's go ahead and destroy

20:41

the stones,

20:41

which I'm sure upset many.

20:44

It's interesting that they called an industry,

20:47

like a a moon shining industry. Yeah.

20:49

So it just kind of tells you how many people were

20:51

doing it or how how extensive

20:54

it it really was. Investigators

20:56

were still looking into the connection with the reported

20:58

theft of a large quantity of moonshine

21:01

in area when the men vanished. By

21:03

May, the search was mostly discontinued.

21:06

But Family members were still searching,

21:08

and state investigators were assigned to

21:10

help county officers in the case. Relative

21:13

moved the search to a remote area,

21:15

Blount County, after picking

21:18

up new leads. On May

21:20

fourteenth, nineteen fifty six, there

21:22

were reports that A nineteen

21:24

forty seven Green Fork was found

21:26

burned in a remote area

21:29

of Blount County. On May six, teeth

21:31

the Birmingham news wrote that a former

21:33

neighbor of the Die BrasherDye reported

21:36

seeing Billy Don, drive past her house,

21:38

in the dark green nineteen forty

21:41

seven Ford a few days after

21:43

they went missing. The neighbor asked to keep

21:45

her identity private, but She

21:47

said she lived near the dies in Robinwood

21:50

before they moved to Fultondale. She

21:52

told the Birmingham news, I was

21:54

sweeping off my front porch. When I

21:56

saw Billy Howard drive past,

21:58

I remember telling my husband and daughter

22:00

I would swear it was him. So maybe

22:03

she saw the car and thought it was Billy

22:05

driving. Yeah. I mean, from what she

22:07

told the paper, she was pretty sure about

22:09

the identification, but there's

22:11

really no way to corroborate it.

22:13

BM Denkin repeated his theory

22:15

that the stolen whiskey was

22:18

behind everything. He pointed out the fact

22:20

that producers of illegal alcohol would

22:22

use violence when product was

22:25

stolen, something that you and I just

22:27

talked about. On May twenty seventh,

22:29

relatives of the missing men's started

22:31

searching the swampy area of Robinwood,

22:34

two families received unsigned letters

22:37

directing them to an area east

22:39

of the Robinwood post office.

22:41

Sheriff Jenkins received a similar letter.

22:44

The letter said that three grates

22:46

with bloody underclothes and empty

22:48

cartridges could be found in that

22:50

area. Berta died, the die

22:52

brother's mother, appealed to

22:54

the sender to write another letter

22:56

with more details. So

22:58

yet another case where

23:01

somebody writes letters or

23:03

there's some communication to both

23:05

family members and law enforcement.

23:08

Either from the person that committed to foul play

23:10

or someone toying with the family

23:13

and

23:13

police.

23:13

Yeah. I and I think that's the question anytime

23:16

you kind of hear

23:18

about these types of

23:20

communications. On May twenty ninth,

23:23

a stained undershirt. And charred

23:25

Billfold were found in a wooded area

23:27

of Robinwood east of five mile

23:30

creek where these

23:32

anomalous letters said

23:34

the graves of the three men could be found.

23:36

So I I think once you hear that,

23:39

you start to lean towards Maybe

23:41

these letters are from someone who

23:43

really knows what happens.

23:46

Possibly even participate

23:48

-- Yeah. -- in what happened to the

23:51

dies and Dan Bracher.

23:53

The undershirt was the same size in

23:55

May. As the one Robert

23:57

Dye was wearing the night he went missing,

23:59

this was according to his mother, The

24:02

undershirt was stained with what

24:04

looked like dry blood. The

24:06

Billfold had no papers or

24:08

ID inside and was burned. Relatives

24:11

believed it looked similar to the one Dan

24:14

had with him at the time he went

24:16

missing. On June fifth, that

24:18

year, group of searchers looked through

24:20

the underbrush at a church near

24:22

Bradford after a man from Moores

24:25

told relatives the men were

24:27

killed in that area. This man had

24:29

been drinking when he approached an aunt

24:31

and uncle of the missing men. He said

24:33

that the men were shot. Because they revealed

24:35

the location of some stills.

24:38

The relative said that the man

24:40

named the killer and others who were

24:42

present when they were shot. So

24:44

this man was taken to the county jail

24:47

for questioning. Dinken said

24:49

he was still drinking. When

24:51

he was picked up on June fourth, when

24:54

he was arrested, he denied

24:56

telling the story. And the search

24:58

of the Church

25:01

turned up nothing. So we've had

25:03

a number of strange things already, in

25:05

this case, right, the anonymous letters. Now

25:07

this guy is questioned

25:10

because he's telling family

25:12

members not only that

25:15

their loved ones were shot, but he's naming

25:17

people. But then when questioned by

25:19

police, he claims up. And

25:21

the information about the search

25:23

he he gave them didn't turn

25:25

anything up. So How reliable

25:28

was he? And he's also intoxicated. True

25:31

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on the Amazon Music or Wondry

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app. On July

29:22

eighth nineteen fifty six, the Birmingham

29:25

News reported that Dan BrasherDye had

29:27

once served time for liquor violations on

29:29

the night of the Disappearances. He said

29:32

he was scheduled to help make a

29:34

whiskey run for a well known

29:36

moonshiner in the morris area. There

29:39

is evidence that the Diapers might

29:41

have gone with Dan Bracher to the still.

29:44

Bracher was apparently reluctant to

29:46

make the run because it was

29:48

what was called a hot pot, which

29:51

means that it was a still believed

29:53

to be under observation. So,

29:55

obviously, that would be a lot more

29:58

dangerous for sure. Yeah. At

30:00

first, he refused to do it, but he was

30:02

eventually persuaded. And

30:04

you set it up front, but, you know, it's

30:06

gonna come back around time and time again

30:09

to moonshine. Yeah? And everything

30:12

we've talked about and all of the evidence

30:14

does seem to kind of point to the

30:16

fact that illegal alcohol

30:19

was involved moon chime or, you know, whatever

30:21

you wanna call it. White lightning, there's

30:24

a lot different names for it. Oh, there is.

30:26

I know you've tried them all, but It

30:29

just seems and the sheriff even

30:31

said

30:31

so, that it's at the heart of this

30:33

case. Yeah.

30:35

Now who these men were

30:38

exactly what happened. We'll

30:40

have to see about. Just

30:43

a week before he went missing, Dan

30:45

BrasherDye seemed very nervous and

30:47

fearful. One day, three cars

30:50

pulled up near him, causing him to say,

30:52

they've come for me this time. He was

30:54

with the dies and several other

30:56

people during this incident. He and

30:58

the dies armed themselves and mentioned

31:01

the name of a boss bootlegger as

31:03

being the one who came after Dan. However,

31:06

the three cars left without incident.

31:09

Just a few days before this incident,

31:11

Dan was beaten up. And thrown through a

31:13

window by a bootlegger who was

31:15

closely connected to the chief

31:18

moonshotter. So and we don't

31:20

have names right, to put with

31:22

these people, but there's

31:24

no way that there's not a connection

31:26

here. I know we're not Right. -- done

31:28

with the episode, but it's really

31:30

hard to say that the fate

31:33

of the dies and Dan BrasherDye

31:35

wasn't somehow tied to

31:38

moon shining, possibly

31:41

the those person that they're calling

31:43

the chief bootlegger and and whoever

31:45

else worked for him. It was little criminal

31:48

organization there. Yeah. Yeah. I

31:50

I don't think there's any doubt about

31:52

that. Now whether they were

31:54

the ones responsible for

31:56

the disappearances of, you

31:58

know, the dies and BrasherDye.

32:00

It's not known, but

32:02

it's a

32:03

theory. And and I think it's pretty easy

32:05

theory to make. And it seems like

32:07

they weren't happy

32:08

with how was handling

32:11

their moonshine. Well, and especially

32:13

if they thought

32:16

that he or, you know,

32:18

the Dye brothers were involved in

32:21

the pilluring of a large

32:23

amount of it. According to the

32:25

Birmingham News, because the search disrupted

32:28

the local moonshining business, The

32:30

DIAMILY AND OTHERS RECEIVED THREATHS

32:33

ATTRIBATED TO A CERTAIN TOUGH

32:36

LUKORING TELLING THEM TO STOP

32:38

THE SURGE or someone would be

32:40

hurt. So, you know, what we have,

32:43

like you said, is kind of a criminal enterprise.

32:46

And right now, their criminal

32:49

activity has been kind of halted.

32:51

You know what criminal masterminds don't

32:53

like? Is their

32:56

business, halted. Yeah. The flow of

32:59

product, money, all

33:01

of it coming to a standstill. They

33:03

can't have that. On September eighteenth,

33:06

Birmingham Fireman pumped water from

33:08

an air shaft of a wagon mine

33:10

in Newcastle in another surge

33:13

chafford for the men. The search

33:15

effort was initiated because a

33:17

chunk of human hair was pulled

33:19

from the flooded hole on a

33:21

grappling hook. Relatives of the missing

33:23

men found it earlier that month.

33:26

Jim BrasherDye, the missing men's

33:28

uncle, sent the hair to the state

33:30

toxicologist, The toxicologist

33:32

determined that it was human hair, but

33:35

that the original color was blonde.

33:37

Dan had red hair and

33:39

the dies both had dark

33:41

hair. Always a strange day when

33:43

you find some human hair.

33:46

But

33:46

at the end of the day, you're like, yep, it's

33:48

not one of their hairs.

33:51

So

33:51

who's this?

33:52

Yeah. It's like, okay. But

33:54

do we have a problem here? But I get

33:56

the sense. Right? We talk about rural

33:59

Alabama or any place

34:01

rural back in the day

34:04

There were probably a lot of people who went missing.

34:06

was much easier to make people

34:10

for sure. Especially in these types

34:12

of areas where you know, if

34:14

you can successfully operate

34:19

a large number of stills without anybody

34:21

finding you can make a a

34:23

body disappear pretty

34:25

easily. Yeah. Yeah. You had a disagreement

34:27

with somebody that went wrong, you know,

34:29

chewed them, threw them back of your

34:31

truck, take them out somewhere. Right?

34:33

There's no CCTV cameras.

34:36

Right. You're not gonna be caught on a ring

34:38

doorbell. You know, it just

34:40

it was a different time. And it

34:42

was so rural that, you

34:44

know, the chances were probably

34:48

much smaller that you'd even run into

34:50

anybody. You can't drive around

34:52

the area where we live with

34:54

the body in the back of your truck. You cannot.

34:57

That's for sure. Yeah. I know you you've

34:59

you've learned that. But, no, seriously,

35:01

I mean, there there's people everywhere. Right. Nowadays.

35:04

Right? And I swear they're always watching

35:06

you. People are always watching. They're

35:08

very cur they are very curious.

35:10

People used to keep to themselves anymore.

35:13

After the firemen pumped out most of the

35:15

water, they found nothing in the mineshaft.

35:18

So, again, we don't know where this

35:20

mysterious human hair came from

35:23

who had came from, but they didn't find

35:25

anything in that mind shift. I would highly

35:27

doubt someone was cutting their hair.

35:30

And just letting it fall down in the mineshaft.

35:33

Be little strange. On November twenty

35:35

seventh nineteen fifty seven, Jefferson

35:37

County deputies dug into three

35:39

holes that were believed to be

35:41

graves at a spot in Northeast

35:44

Jefferson County. No bodies were found,

35:46

but the search team found a shirt

35:48

that looked similar to one worn

35:51

by one of the missing men. So a lot

35:53

of searches going on here. I think

35:55

the one thing that you have to say

35:57

is there was quite a bit of effort

36:00

put into finding

36:03

these three men. Now some of

36:05

that effort was on the part

36:07

of law enforcement. And some

36:09

of it was, you know, on

36:11

the missing men's family.

36:15

But if you just look at what law enforcement

36:17

did, It does seem as though

36:20

they they put quite a lot

36:22

of resources into finding these

36:24

three guys. Yeah. Disappearances,

36:27

Marion Dye described the shirt

36:29

Dan BrasherDye was wearing before deputy

36:32

showed it to him The shirt was covered

36:34

in mud, but it had a gray green

36:36

and red pattern, which was similar to

36:38

a shirt that was given to Dan

36:40

before he Disappearances December

36:43

seventh nineteen fifty nine. So

36:45

we're now two years after

36:47

the last search we just talked

36:49

about. The Die Brother's parents

36:51

said they believed the skeleton found

36:53

in a wooded area of Brookside might

36:56

be the remains of Robert Earl Die.

36:58

Marian died told the Birmingham News

37:01

according to the bell. In shape

37:03

of the skull, it's him. He also

37:05

pointed to a piece of wire on the bell

37:07

buckle saying, I put that on there

37:09

myself. Missus Dye said,

37:12

I'd know that belt anywhere. I

37:14

bought it for him at a

37:16

Tarrant City store. I

37:18

understand the belt. You know, some

37:20

belts can be very distinctive, especially,

37:24

you know, if they're adorned with something

37:26

extra homemade whatever,

37:29

which it sounds like this one was. The

37:31

part that really jumped out at me is this

37:33

guy saying that based on

37:35

the shape of the skull, he

37:38

thought it was him kind of strange.

37:40

I hear that some people have, I guess,

37:42

you know, oddly shaped heads

37:44

or I don't know. I've got kind of

37:46

a ridge that runs, you know, the through

37:49

the middle of mine where it sticks up --

37:51

Yeah. -- a little bit.

37:53

But would you be able to say conclusively

37:56

by looking at a skull that that's mine?

37:58

No. But by your belt buckle, I would

38:00

know. That's true. We're

38:01

designed you have on it.

38:02

That's true. I just that that part kinda

38:04

jumped out at me. The belt I got, the

38:06

shape of the skull, I thought, was a was a little

38:09

strange. Deputy Corner, Tom

38:11

Ellison, reported that The parents

38:13

could not make a positive ID.

38:15

He said that a toxicologist report

38:19

could reveal how long the skeleton

38:21

had been in that area. So they were

38:23

sure about the bell, Marion was

38:25

sure about the skull, but the parents

38:27

couldn't make positive ID. Missus

38:30

Dye said she knew positively. That

38:32

her son was wearing tan slippers

38:34

when he went missing, but the shoes

38:36

found on the skeleton were black. Missus

38:38

Dye said that one explanation for the different

38:41

shoes could be that Robert was forced

38:43

to change shoes. If they held

38:45

a gun on him, he would have done anything

38:47

they said. The skeleton

38:49

also had seven teeth missing,

38:52

and they

38:53

didn't remember Robert having any

38:55

teeth pulled at the dentist. The

38:58

remaining teeth had no fillings or

39:00

obvious cavities, which indicated

39:02

the man was younger. But

39:05

It was said that the skeleton was about

39:07

the same size as Robert. The skeleton

39:09

was also wearing two pairs of pants.

39:12

Which apparently was something that Robert did

39:14

when it was cold, the bones in

39:16

clothing were partially burnt. I mean,

39:18

when you take all that in,

39:21

Sounds pretty promising. It does.

39:24

I'm I'm just not sure how you

39:26

make a positive identification of

39:29

of what they had. Now they they did have

39:31

some teeth. I don't

39:34

know what kind of odontology

39:37

or the

39:39

matching of someone's teeth was

39:41

like in the nineteen fifties. Was

39:43

that a thing? Because you would think they would

39:45

be able to make a mold and but

39:48

I you know, there's no database. Right.

39:50

You could send it around to to Dennis,

39:52

but, you know, how far do you go?

39:55

On January twenty two, nineteen sixty,

39:58

sheriff Holt McDowell announced that

40:00

two investigators Tom Ellison and

40:02

Roy Leslie would be assigned to

40:04

the BrasherDye die case full time.

40:07

So this is like four years old.

40:09

This occurred after hundreds of North

40:12

Jefferson residents. Signed a petition

40:14

asking for Ellison to be allowed to work

40:16

the case. A drilling operation

40:19

started on January twenty second. After

40:21

state safety director, Floyd Mann,

40:24

announced that he received a tip that

40:26

the dies and BrasherDye have

40:28

been buried in Billy's car under

40:30

the Tarrant Penson Highway

40:33

in North Jefferson County. This

40:35

road was under construction. When the

40:37

men went missing, an unidentified

40:40

official told the Birmingham news that a

40:42

construction worker was under

40:44

suspicion. This person was working

40:46

as a bulldozer operator when

40:49

the men went missing. So

40:51

we talked about someone

40:54

witnessing a bulldozer bearing

40:57

a car -- We did. -- earlier.

40:59

And we also talked about, you know,

41:02

these men working

41:05

road construction. Now we don't

41:07

know if it was this

41:09

road exactly, but we know this road

41:11

was under construction at the time the

41:13

men

41:14

disappeared. In nineteen fifty

41:16

six. So there's some possible connections

41:19

there. Seems

41:19

like there's a lot of connections. Different

41:22

connections here and there, you know. Yeah.

41:24

Well, there's there's spider

41:26

webs that are going all over the

41:28

place. But their connections are

41:30

very tenuous, you know. Right?

41:33

I'm thinking of a wall, you know, and you have

41:35

all these pins in the wall, and

41:37

you have that that red yarn

41:40

string running everywhere, and it's just

41:42

a lot. Just confusing. Yeah. Yeah. You're

41:44

you're not connecting the dots, so to

41:46

say. Man said that if their drilling

41:49

operations turned up metal fragments,

41:51

from a car that they would tear

41:53

out the entire section of the road.

41:55

That's that's not no small effort.

41:58

No. To literally tear up a highway.

42:00

That's a big deal. But so they're all

42:02

in. The first team drilled into

42:04

the shoulder of the highway and found nothing.

42:07

So they moved on to drilling into the

42:09

roof. They marked off squares over

42:11

a distance of a couple hundred feet.

42:13

Fairfax police chief Tommy Ward.

42:16

Thearized that the killer

42:18

put the car with the bodies inside into

42:20

a hole during construction, then

42:23

bulldozed the layer of dirt. Over.

42:26

The next day, workmen came in

42:28

and unknowingly covered up

42:30

the body. Chief Ward was

42:32

the one who gave the tip to Floyd

42:35

man. So that's a

42:37

very interesting theory.

42:39

And, you know, when you

42:41

think about it, it would

42:43

be a very good way

42:47

to permanently hide

42:49

somebody. Well, and it solves

42:52

a lot of problems. Right? The bodies

42:54

are hitting, the cars hitting problems

42:56

solved. And it's not just in AAA

42:59

wooded area under some

43:01

dirt where they

43:04

may one day build a house or

43:06

that may you know, become

43:08

a construction site at some point.

43:11

If it's under the highway, what are

43:13

the chances that anybody would

43:15

ever discover. It's kinda like the the

43:17

Jimmy Hoffa theory, you know,

43:20

being buried under an

43:22

NFL state -- Right. -- or, you

43:24

know, something like that. Drilling

43:26

resumed on January twenty fifth

43:28

nineteen sixty. Device is called

43:30

MSCO. Detected metal under

43:33

the highway at a bridge abovemen.

43:35

Highway construction records show there

43:37

was ongoing construction. At the Railroad

43:40

Bridge on the night of the Disappearances,

43:43

sheriff Ward announced that he learned from

43:45

a source that the foreman remember

43:48

a bulldozer being moved during the

43:50

night around the time of the Disappearances.

43:53

sources said that three men in

43:55

another car weigh laid

43:57

the men as they left Dan home.

43:59

His informant told him that the men were

44:02

killed and their car was driven

44:04

into a construction site. It

44:07

does seem as though a lot

44:09

of people either knew what happened

44:11

or were telling stories that

44:14

they thought they knew what happened. Right. Yeah.

44:16

Because there's a there's a lot of people coming forward

44:18

and

44:18

said, oh, yeah. This is what happened. I know what

44:20

happened. John told me this

44:22

and because he said Pete told him

44:24

that and I think in a town

44:27

like

44:27

that, things just kinda run. Just

44:29

kinda like the old telephone game, you know?

44:31

Probably easy to believe a lot of stories in

44:33

those small towns. On January

44:36

twenty six, the state toxicologist. Determined

44:39

that pieces of metal that were found during

44:41

the drilling were pieces from

44:43

the blade of a drill. He performed

44:45

a chemical analysis of what was

44:47

believed to be rubberized material

44:50

and a seat cover and determined they were

44:52

just roots. So they really thought

44:54

that they, you know, they had something. Here.

44:57

But when it was analyzed, it

44:59

turned out to be things that you

45:02

would expect to find on a construction site.

45:04

Yeah. That'd be a big lockdown for him.

45:06

Yeah. Drills break,

45:09

blades break. They just get covered

45:11

up and and buried. And you're gonna

45:13

have roots all over the place. According

45:15

to the Birmingham post Harold, the

45:18

search officially ended on February

45:20

fifth nineteen sixty. Floyd

45:22

man told the press investigators have

45:24

convinced themselves that the car

45:26

is not under the Tarrant Penson

45:29

Route. So they were hot and heavy on

45:31

this. They thought, you know, this

45:33

was the secret

45:35

spot. But after all the testing,

45:37

They had to give it up.

45:38

Yeah. I mean, there's only so many holes you

45:40

can drill in the road and and so much

45:42

testing you can do. I'm sure it's not cheap

45:45

either. No. I'm sure it was very expensive.

45:47

Oh, because you gotta fix all those holes. Oh,

45:50

yeah. After you make them,

45:52

A new surge started at an abandoned

45:55

mine in Bradford on March ninth

45:57

nineteen sixty over the next few

45:59

days. Officers collected, a

46:02

piece of a ladder, a piece of

46:04

glass from nineteen forty seven vehicle,

46:06

pieces of a burned car in a shoot.

46:09

The size of the shoe was the

46:11

same as one of the missing

46:13

men. It almost makes you wonder if,

46:15

like, whoever did this. So

46:18

let's take this, some of this

46:20

over here, take some of this over

46:22

here. Let's make sure we separate it.

46:24

So if something's found, It's not

46:26

all found together.

46:28

Yeah. Either that or

46:30

are they finding things and

46:33

making them fit

46:35

more than what they really do. Okay.

46:37

So you have three men. What are the

46:39

chances that a shoe

46:42

found is gonna be one of

46:44

their

46:44

sizes. Pretty pretty good chance. Pretty

46:46

good. Yeah. Pretty good chance. Right? Probably

46:48

pretty good chance that you're gonna have a lot of

46:50

nineteen forty seven vehicles in the area.

46:53

Yeah.

46:53

Now if you told me it was a nineteen forty

46:55

seven green. You know, if it if

46:57

it matched, yeah, very specific.

46:59

That that might be

47:00

different. The old mine was once

47:02

owned by the family of Mac Ed Moore,

47:04

who took a lie detector test in March

47:07

about the disappearances. Investors

47:09

wouldn't say. What the results were, but

47:11

said they were more hopeful of finding

47:14

the bodies than ever. K?

47:16

I take from that that the

47:18

lie detector test didn't go all that

47:21

well. Well, they gotta be helpful. I

47:23

mean, these law enforcement

47:25

teams have not given

47:26

up. No. For years.

47:29

Right? I mean and now

47:31

we're gonna jump to nineteen

47:33

seventy two. Yeah. Because the investigation

47:36

did stall for a number of years.

47:39

You know? If you can't find anything,

47:41

you can't find anything, there's really just not much

47:43

going on. But it was nineteen seventy

47:45

two when Tom Gore joined the

47:48

Jefferson County Commission, he

47:50

believed that a car was buried under

47:52

Alabama seventy nine. He

47:54

told the Birmingham post Harold in

47:56

nineteen eighty four. A number of people

47:59

came to me saying they didn't think

48:01

the case had been looked at thoroughly. In

48:04

that state investigators had

48:06

been looking on the wrong side of the

48:08

bridge on the highway. I

48:11

felt it was something we had to check out. And

48:13

that it might help ease some people's

48:15

minds. Two people, claim

48:17

they saw a car lowered into a

48:19

hole on Alabama seventy nine.

48:22

And another citizen reported hearing

48:24

a bulldozer around that time.

48:26

According to the Birmingham post Harold,

48:29

Witness Ernest Hornsby told the

48:31

sheriff's deputies years earlier that

48:33

he saw a car lowered into a

48:35

fill on the highway on

48:37

March fourth nineteen fifty six.

48:40

Hornsby showed Curtis Brasher,

48:42

a cousin of the missing men, the spot

48:44

where the car was

48:45

buried, and then he died of

48:47

a heart attack the very same day.

48:49

Like,

48:49

he finally got it out and then

48:51

it was gone.

48:52

That that is such a strange

48:55

coincidence. If it is a coincidence.

48:58

But for me, the amount of resources

49:01

that go into the these searches, that

49:03

just a suggestion

49:05

that maybe they're over here.

49:08

And then I think about other cases on how

49:10

hard it is to get, like, one

49:12

tip. Yeah. Yeah. We got tips out

49:14

the wazoo here. And people

49:16

seeing, like, very incriminating things.

49:19

Oh, yeah. Or saying they they saw

49:21

very incriminating things. The

49:23

tips just aren't leading to to

49:25

really anything. Without sheriff

49:28

Mel Bailey's knowledge, Glory

49:30

in a state highway department crew,

49:32

drilled into the shoulder of the road.

49:34

The drilling didn't start in the spot.

49:37

Hornsby showed Curtis BrasherDye

49:40

the digging took place where testing turned

49:42

up pieces of metal. Sheriff

49:44

Bailey was irritated that Glora and

49:46

other state wraps started digging without

49:49

contacting him. In nineteen eighty

49:51

four, he told the post Harold, I

49:53

was obviously put out by this kind

49:56

of foolishness. Which hunting,

49:58

so to speak, nobody contacted

50:00

me for a look at the file. They just

50:02

took somebody's wild guess.

50:05

The sheriff's department has never drilled

50:07

or dug that highway. We

50:09

had the file, and there was just

50:11

no basis for doing that.

50:13

And I get what he's saying. It did kinda sound

50:15

like that. Yeah. I mean, this

50:17

guy Glor said that a number of

50:19

people said that a car was

50:21

buried under there Take a

50:24

look. Yeah. Take a look, but

50:26

maybe you should involve the police or consult

50:28

with the police. On December seventeenth

50:31

nineteen seventy five, A crew returned

50:33

to a section of highway seventy nine to

50:35

search for Billy Dye's vehicle, the

50:38

section of Alabama seventy nine.

50:40

They drilled into was also

50:42

called the Penson Valley Parkway. The

50:44

crew consisted of Jefferson County

50:47

Engineering Crew, state investigators and

50:49

a US Navy team of mine

50:52

and metal detection experts. The

50:54

surge started on the west side of a bridge.

50:57

A probe detected a large metal

50:59

object underground. Unfortunately, the

51:01

object turned out to be a gas

51:04

pipe. Later that day, the authorities

51:06

announced they were very optimistic. They

51:09

were near the end of the surge for

51:11

the missing men. And there's really not

51:13

much around this, but I found

51:15

it to be interesting. I'm

51:18

just not sure where this high

51:21

level of optimism

51:23

came from.

51:24

And they seem to be optimistic about

51:27

everything. Everything. You know? And

51:29

I get that, but to

51:31

make announcements and

51:34

to say, I guess, to go

51:36

as far as saying that

51:38

you're nearing the end of the surge.

51:41

I mean, what's that due to the family? Yeah.

51:44

You're optimistic. You're optimistic. And

51:46

then nothing ever comes

51:48

from this stuff. According

51:50

to the Birmingham post Harold, the

51:52

search moved to the other side of the bridge. WHERE

51:55

THE WITNESS CLAIMED HE SAW A

51:57

CAR BEING BARRIED AFTER

51:59

DRILLING AND TESTING CHIEF OF

52:01

NAVY EXPERTS DR. KENITH

52:03

AL. Said, our instruments indicate

52:06

there is an object twenty feet below

52:08

the surface. Our measurements are

52:10

consistent with there being an object

52:12

there. So maybe that's where you know, the optimism

52:15

comes from, but they don't know it's

52:17

a car. They don't know it's their car.

52:19

They don't even know that if it is the

52:21

car, these men are gonna be in

52:23

there.

52:24

It was the right car. Yeah. It seems like a lot

52:26

of optimism. On December eighth,

52:28

commissioner Tom Gore announced that

52:30

searchers found metal pieces under

52:32

Highway seventy nine, and a toxicologist

52:35

would conduct testing to see if

52:37

they were part of a green nineteen

52:40

forty seven Ford. On December

52:42

eleventh, officials from the Jefferson

52:44

County Sheriff's Department and the Alabama

52:46

Department of Public Safety announced

52:48

that state toxicologists found

52:51

that the pieces of metal could

52:53

have come from a nineteen forty

52:55

seven Ford. Okay. Could

52:57

have come is not

52:59

definitively came from? No.

53:01

It's a you're venturing

53:03

into the area of microscopically similar

53:06

-- Exactly. But, I

53:09

mean, I will say. I guess it's better

53:11

than saying they they could not have

53:13

come. That's true. I don't know what they were

53:15

using to make that determination.

53:18

The type of metal that was used in cars

53:20

in the nineteen forties? I mean,

53:22

how could it really be specific

53:24

all the way down to the year?

53:27

Yeah. And and make. Because

53:29

then you wanna know what else could

53:31

it be and then kinda try

53:33

to cross those items off the

53:35

list. Could it be a nineteen forty seven Chevy?

53:37

Could it be a nineteen forty five Ford?

53:40

You know, could it be anything

53:42

in the forties? I I don't know.

53:44

Yeah. Could have been septic tank that was made in

53:46

the same year with the same type of metal.

53:48

On December twelve, excavation resumed.

53:51

A long highway seventy nine, but the Search

53:53

ended on December fourteenth. According

53:56

to the Birmingham post Harold, Assistant

53:58

Jefferson County Sheriff David Orange

54:01

said We called it off

54:03

because there was nothing there. All

54:05

the search crew found inside the

54:07

thirty five foot hole they dug was

54:09

tangled barbed wire and

54:11

metal covert pipe. The

54:13

Navy experts determined that

54:15

their equipment detected the pipe.

54:18

So again, all this

54:20

optimism. We're nearing the end

54:22

of the search for these missing men

54:25

but every time just this huge

54:27

letdown. And it must have been that

54:29

way for both the law

54:31

enforcement personnel, but

54:33

also the family. Right? Because they're monitoring

54:36

all of this and they're hopeful that

54:38

at the very least they're gonna get some answers.

54:41

Right. And they get nothing. But I like

54:43

the way that Navy experts, you know,

54:45

confirm that their equipment

54:47

detect the pipe.

54:49

Yeah. Yeah. I could have put that together.

54:51

Yeah. We figure that one out without

54:53

using that. In February nineteen

54:56

eighty four, the Birmingham post Herald

54:58

interviewed sixty nine year old

55:00

Curtis BrasherDye. believed

55:02

that his cousins were killed by the leader

55:05

of the local moon shining ring who

55:07

believed that they had stolen

55:09

whiskey. He thought Billy and Robert

55:11

were buried in Billy's car under

55:13

Alabama seventy nine, but suspected

55:16

Dan was killed a few days later

55:18

in his body was put

55:20

in an abandoned mine. Over

55:22

the years, Curtis BrasherDye talked

55:25

to local residents, including boot lagers,

55:27

He wrote letters to congressmen, the

55:29

governor, state attorney general, and

55:32

even the FBI. He offered a two

55:34

thousand dollar reward for information

55:37

He told the post Harold, I believe

55:39

Dan's over there in that mind

55:41

where the hare was found. I believe there's

55:43

a car under that road there in Penson

55:46

and I believe the die boys are probably

55:48

in it. I think someday somebody will

55:50

come forward. It's got to be a lot

55:52

on a fellow's mind. To do something

55:55

like that. And that's an interesting quote

55:58

because it's something that you and I talk

56:00

about frequently do. In

56:02

a number of these unsolved cases.

56:04

Obviously, there are people out

56:06

there with information that

56:09

could blow the case wide open. Information

56:11

that could lead to the recovery of the

56:13

car, the bodies, and

56:16

also information about who was involved.

56:19

But why would they come forward? Now,

56:21

he says it must be

56:24

a lot on a fellow's mind

56:26

to do something like that. And

56:28

for him and you and I, it would

56:30

be. Yeah. But if you're some

56:33

kind of big time criminal, is

56:36

it? That's the question that I

56:38

always have. Do they think

56:40

the same way that we do and

56:43

does, you know, their actions,

56:45

however hurtful they are, impact

56:48

them the same way that it would,

56:51

you or I or, you know, most

56:53

people listening. And I'm not sure it

56:55

does. So I

56:57

don't know how many

56:59

people are then gonna later

57:01

come forward because they have a guilty conscious,

57:05

or for the two thousand dollar reward. Because,

57:07

again, you're probably implicating yourself

57:09

-- Right. -- and you're probably implicating

57:12

people some of whom are still alive

57:15

and would

57:15

not, you know, look too kindly

57:17

on you for doing that for

57:19

doing that. Yeah. And would probably

57:21

come after you or their family. So

57:23

to me, the fear in a

57:25

lot of cases of

57:28

coming forward really outweighs the

57:31

the benefit, the getting it

57:33

off your chest or anything

57:35

like that. And when I say out

57:37

ways to the person who could

57:40

potentially come

57:41

forward.

57:41

Yeah. I agree with you. This this the

57:44

risk is too high. Kurtis talked

57:46

about the first days after the

57:48

men went missing. The Wednesday after

57:50

they disappeared, Curtis and his father

57:52

searched local jails but didn't find them

57:54

in. They filed a missing person's

57:56

report the next day. That Friday, they

57:59

tried to go to a local moonshider's home,

58:01

but were stopped by the man's cousin who

58:03

told them that the bodies had been found

58:06

and someone was arrested. They

58:08

soon learned that this was a lie. In

58:10

a later visit, the cousin informed Curtis

58:12

that he lied because he didn't want

58:14

them to see the nineteen forty seven

58:16

Ford in the Moon Shiners bar.

58:19

That sounds believable. It does,

58:22

but why would he give them that information?

58:24

He didn't want them to see it.

58:26

Why would he then later tell them?

58:29

Right. It was there because they would have never

58:31

known. Yeah. It's I believe that the

58:33

vehicle could have been in the Moon Shiner's

58:35

barn. But I don't believe he would

58:37

tell them that because it doesn't

58:39

make any

58:40

sense. Why wouldn't you just go ahead and let him see

58:42

it then? In yeah. In the first place.

58:44

In the weeks after the disappearances, the

58:46

BrasherDye and Dyes did their own search

58:48

of mine shafts, caves, and wells

58:51

in different counties. Kurtis

58:53

BrasherDye heard rumors that some deputies

58:56

were connected to the local moonshine trade,

58:59

which is why he started writing to public

59:01

officials That's not unbelievable. No.

59:04

It's not unbelievable at all. I

59:06

imagine, you know, over the

59:08

years, there were some

59:10

law enforcement officials who took money

59:12

to look the other way about

59:15

moonshine stills or or moonshine

59:17

activity in Reuters. Yes.

59:19

Here's a case for you. Yeah.

59:21

I'm sure that happened. Before

59:24

deputy Tom Ellison passed away

59:26

in the mid nineteen seventies, he

59:28

alleged that former Sheriff Holt McDowell

59:31

took him off the case, because

59:33

he was too close to solving it.

59:34

McDowell had passed away before

59:37

the publication of the article in nineteen

59:39

eighty four. Ellison also

59:41

said that Sheriff Mel Bailey

59:43

gave the impression that he would

59:46

reassign Allison to the case if

59:48

he was elected sheriff in the early

59:50

sixties. Bailey denied that

59:53

he ever said this. Commissioner

59:55

Tom Gore told the paper he no longer

59:57

believed. A car was buried under the highway

1:00:00

But OM Rinks, a retired DPS

1:00:03

lieutenant, who led the nineteen

1:00:05

seventy five investigation, believed

1:00:07

that the highway still holds the

1:00:09

evidence they need. Rain said

1:00:12

he believed the brothers were killed in a

1:00:14

fight at the Robin Wood party

1:00:16

and were buried under the highway. He

1:00:18

believes BrasherDye was killed a

1:00:20

few days later in that he

1:00:22

was buried in a cemetery in Moores.

1:00:25

Sheriff Bailey said they searched a grave

1:00:27

in a more cemetery after

1:00:29

they received work that two bodies were

1:00:31

buried there but they felt

1:00:33

satisfied that this was not true.

1:00:36

Rain said the sheriff's department failed to

1:00:38

solve the case because there was too much

1:00:40

money and power at stake.

1:00:42

Bailey emphasized that there is no

1:00:44

evidence that the former sheriff for the sheriff's

1:00:47

department were involved in illegal

1:00:49

activities. So, I mean, I

1:00:51

think that goes back to to your point.

1:00:53

You know, is it out of the question that

1:00:56

some of these law enforcement officials

1:00:58

were involved No. I don't

1:01:00

think it is. What I will say

1:01:03

is if they were involved,

1:01:05

then it means they had a vested interest.

1:01:08

Yes.

1:01:08

And not only

1:01:11

the corps and the body is not being

1:01:13

found, but the corporates not

1:01:15

being brought to justice or,

1:01:17

you know, the mystery being solved. Because

1:01:20

I'm sure it would have eventually led

1:01:23

back to them or tied them

1:01:24

in. That would have ruined their careers

1:01:28

their lives.

1:01:28

In their life. Most likely. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying

1:01:30

that's what happened. I'm saying if that

1:01:33

theory, which is a theory, is

1:01:35

correct, then that's why it happened the way

1:01:37

it did. The post Harold talked

1:01:39

to an unidentified moonshiner who

1:01:42

said that After the disappearances, law

1:01:44

enforcement crackdown on Moon

1:01:46

Shiners, and many were arrested. BrasherDye

1:01:49

and Rain told the paper that they believed that

1:01:51

the men got in trouble. At this particular

1:01:54

moonshider's house, but he denied

1:01:56

knowing any of the myth. So to me,

1:01:58

that does kind of fly in the face of

1:02:01

law enforcement

1:02:03

being involved unless we're talking

1:02:05

about different parts.

1:02:06

Yes. So you got a small

1:02:09

group that was involved and then

1:02:11

a different group that decided

1:02:13

to crack down, and that could've happened.

1:02:16

That could've happened. What I'm saying is

1:02:18

the people that were

1:02:20

involved if it was law enforcement,

1:02:22

they wouldn't then turn around, I don't

1:02:25

think, and crack down on all these moonshiners.

1:02:28

Because they would probably face some retribution,

1:02:30

I would think, for that. On June

1:02:32

first nineteen eighty four, the captain

1:02:35

Donald Hanes of the Jeff and county

1:02:37

sheriff's department flew to Louisiana

1:02:39

to question T. J. Shambley, a

1:02:42

man who claimed that he murdered

1:02:44

the three missing men. Champly

1:02:46

indicated that he was originally from

1:02:48

Jefferson County. According to the Birmingham

1:02:51

post Harold, Champly was drunk

1:02:53

when he confessed which led to

1:02:55

the sheriff's department to question his

1:02:57

confession. He told the police where

1:02:59

they could find the bodies. The police

1:03:01

went to that location But according

1:03:04

to major Earl Robbins, right now, it

1:03:06

just doesn't add up. We've been there

1:03:08

and there's no area like what he

1:03:10

told us in this particular

1:03:13

vicinity. Now, I've never understood why

1:03:15

people admit to crimes

1:03:18

that they didn't do. Right. We know

1:03:20

it happens. And was

1:03:23

this guy involved? I don't know.

1:03:26

It seems as though the police kind of discounted

1:03:28

him pretty quickly because the information

1:03:31

he provided didn't

1:03:33

didn't add up.

1:03:34

But I think sometimes they like to

1:03:36

try to attach themselves

1:03:38

to

1:03:39

a notable crime. Yeah. I

1:03:41

get that. They don't have anything better to

1:03:43

do. don't know. There could be a number of reasons

1:03:46

for it. I still don't understand it. One

1:03:48

source told the post Harold that Chamblee

1:03:50

said the bodies were in the Dixieanna

1:03:53

Mine in BrasherDye, Major Robbins

1:03:55

said that Champly was believed to be the

1:03:57

same man who had called the number of times

1:03:59

with information in the case but they

1:04:01

didn't know his identity until

1:04:03

nineteen eighty four. However, T.

1:04:06

J. Chamblee changed his statement.

1:04:08

On June first. He said he

1:04:10

didn't witness the murders, but

1:04:12

his cousin killed the men and told him

1:04:14

where the bodies were. Champly

1:04:16

said he didn't know why he made his original

1:04:19

confession. Going back to my statement

1:04:21

of, I don't understand why a lot

1:04:23

of these people make these confession.

1:04:25

Exactly. In June nineteen

1:04:28

eighty four, the man named W.

1:04:30

C. Wade came forward and said he

1:04:32

overheard the missing men planning to

1:04:34

steal moonshot from someone the

1:04:36

day before they went missing. Wade

1:04:39

called the Birmingham news. After

1:04:41

he read articles about T.

1:04:43

J. Chamblee, he recalled the missing

1:04:45

men, mentioning a similar

1:04:47

name. When plotting to steal

1:04:49

moonshine. Wade said one of

1:04:51

them, I'm not sure which, told the

1:04:54

other two he would let them out of the

1:04:56

car before they got

1:04:58

to this fellow Chamblie's house and

1:05:00

that he would see the man alone

1:05:02

and buy fifteen gallons of whiskey

1:05:04

from him to learn where his

1:05:06

stash was. One of the others said

1:05:08

they'd better be careful that he

1:05:10

carries a gun and he'll shoot

1:05:12

our asses off if he catches

1:05:15

this. Now Wade said he never revealed

1:05:17

what he knew because he didn't wanna

1:05:19

get involved. He had worked with the dies

1:05:22

and of mine. But this

1:05:24

statement conflicts with information that

1:05:26

they worked in a construction job.

1:05:28

Wade also said that he overheard the

1:05:30

men's conversation on a Wednesday and

1:05:33

that they planned to steal whiskey later

1:05:35

that night. But the men went missing

1:05:37

on the weekend. So there's

1:05:40

some conflicts

1:05:40

there. This

1:05:41

is like almost thirty years later.

1:05:44

That that he recalls. Yeah. It

1:05:46

comes forward and and recalls. And

1:05:49

I always

1:05:50

question that as well.

1:05:51

0II have a hard time with that. Now

1:05:53

I get it. He said he didn't

1:05:56

wanna get involved. But thirty years later,

1:05:58

he's okay. Getting involved. And

1:06:00

maybe that's just part of our natures

1:06:03

to question, you know, everything.

1:06:05

But I think when you, you know, you

1:06:07

come forward is kind of an

1:06:10

informant to blow the case

1:06:12

wide open, but a bunch of the

1:06:14

things that you say don't match

1:06:16

up with the known facts,

1:06:18

well, police are probably gonna

1:06:20

dismiss you pretty quickly. Can you

1:06:22

recall a specific conversation

1:06:25

you overheard thirty years

1:06:26

ago? I can't recall a

1:06:28

conversation I heard three years

1:06:31

ago. Yeah.

1:06:32

Now, this would have been a really

1:06:34

big deal. So you know,

1:06:36

I always have to keep that in perspective. I

1:06:39

can remember where I was

1:06:41

on nine eleven. I can remember

1:06:43

who I was with. I can remember what we

1:06:45

were talking about. Because it

1:06:48

was such a big event, it got

1:06:50

seared in my --

1:06:51

Yeah. -- brain.

1:06:52

Because it was such a big event at that time.

1:06:54

Yes.

1:06:55

He

1:06:55

knew it was gonna be a big event. What he

1:06:57

had known that this was gonna be a big event

1:07:00

just

1:07:00

heard some guys talking about stealing some whiskey.

1:07:03

But but even a couple days later --

1:07:05

Yeah. -- if they go missing, is it then

1:07:07

a big event and I'm not saying

1:07:09

this guy knows anything.

1:07:10

No.

1:07:10

No. No. Maybe he does. I'm just it just seems

1:07:13

I I am saying that I do think

1:07:15

somebody could remember something

1:07:18

thirty years ago if it was attached

1:07:20

-- Yeah. -- to a really big event

1:07:22

in their life. That's what I'm saying. I

1:07:24

don't know if anybody in this case is telling

1:07:27

the truth. Maybe they think they are.

1:07:29

And that's true. I did I'm not saying

1:07:31

everybody's lying Maybe

1:07:33

they overheard something, but what they overheard

1:07:36

wasn't true. So they're relaying information

1:07:39

and then police can't corroborate it

1:07:41

or doesn't line up because it's not

1:07:43

true. But they're not doing it maliciously.

1:07:46

Yeah. That could be true as

1:07:48

well. Yeah. Really, you know, these

1:07:51

seem to be the last important update.

1:07:53

And the BrasherDye disappearances, the

1:07:56

case is the oldest active case. In

1:07:58

the Jefferson County Sheriff's Department, Cole

1:08:01

Case Squad, Captain Steve

1:08:03

Green, told Alabama Heritage

1:08:05

in two thousand sixteen that any

1:08:07

viable tips or checked out.

1:08:10

One recent tip stated that the car was

1:08:12

buried along US thirty one,

1:08:14

near Gardondale, deputy

1:08:16

spent several days searching the area

1:08:18

with radar devices, but they found

1:08:21

nothing. So I mean, obviously,

1:08:23

we got a lot better technology. Fifty

1:08:25

years

1:08:26

later.

1:08:26

Man, I don't have to dig up every time. Yeah.

1:08:28

Ground penetrating radar. I

1:08:31

mean, they're all kinds of

1:08:33

technology But that technology

1:08:36

is only good as

1:08:39

the tips that police would get

1:08:41

of where to use it. Right? You just can't

1:08:43

go around using ground penetrating radar

1:08:46

-- No. -- everywhere. You

1:08:48

need kind of at least somewhat

1:08:50

of a specific area and

1:08:52

then maybe you can find some.

1:08:54

Anyone who has information about the

1:08:56

case can call captain

1:08:59

Steve Green at 2053255069.

1:09:04

So as we wrap this one up, gives, you

1:09:06

know, the Dye brothers and Dan disappeared

1:09:10

over sixty years ago. Yeah.

1:09:12

I think it's it's unlikely that

1:09:15

this case will be solved. Kind

1:09:17

of like what we always say

1:09:19

unless somebody comes forward, just

1:09:22

kinda spills the beans and

1:09:24

says, you know, here's what really happened.

1:09:26

Right. And then that information

1:09:30

turns out to be correct. They find the

1:09:32

car. They find bodies. You

1:09:35

know, whatever. Maybe they do some

1:09:37

big highway renewal project

1:09:39

and they dig up some

1:09:40

section. They're like, oh, got a

1:09:42

car here boys? Yeah. I mean,

1:09:44

there are cases that are solved just out

1:09:46

of pure luck. Yeah. And

1:09:49

that's a possibility, but I

1:09:51

don't know. Sixty years,

1:09:54

most likely, the people who

1:09:56

were involved or dead or

1:09:59

or I mean, at the very least, you'd think

1:10:01

they they would be in their mid to late

1:10:03

eighties -- Yeah. -- if not older.

1:10:06

So could they be brought to justice now?

1:10:09

It's highly unlikely, but it's

1:10:11

still a mystery that needs to be solved.

1:10:14

Sure it is. There are still family members that

1:10:16

that would really like

1:10:18

to know what happened to their

1:10:21

their loved ones and can

1:10:23

you recover the bodies? Can can

1:10:26

they bury them? To me,

1:10:28

that's always important. But that's

1:10:30

it for our case on the BrasherDye or die

1:10:32

disappearances. We got some voice mails you wanna

1:10:34

check those out. We'll see them. Hi, Mike and

1:10:36

Gimi. It's your former coworker, Carrie

1:10:38

Ann. I was calling in to comment on

1:10:40

the Erica Baker case. My

1:10:42

husband and I have been residents of

1:10:44

quettering for quite some time. We actually moved

1:10:47

here right before

1:10:49

the incident happened and she disappeared and

1:10:51

I wanted to comment that she was a very

1:10:53

special little girl. My son actually

1:10:56

had the same third grade teacher later on

1:10:58

and her picture. Was

1:11:00

kept on display in the classroom. So

1:11:02

she was a very special girl. And

1:11:05

one thing that has been kind of anchored

1:11:07

in my mind and my husband's doing it too,

1:11:09

whose name is Mike, by the way. We

1:11:12

go to the rec center periodically. We actually

1:11:14

live within walking and we have caught

1:11:16

ourselves kind of looking around picturing

1:11:19

the incident, and there's so much

1:11:21

about this guy, Christian Gabriel, that's

1:11:24

just mind boggling just

1:11:26

makes you mad because he could

1:11:28

have gone in so many different directions. I

1:11:30

frequently shop the Meijer that was

1:11:32

referenced in the story. He could have easily

1:11:34

gone on six seventy five to escape the

1:11:36

police. His apartment apparently was

1:11:38

located in different direction and

1:11:41

Glenn Gary actually dead ends into

1:11:43

the Recreation Center. So how

1:11:45

they thought they were going to escape the cops

1:11:48

or whatever his claim was is just

1:11:50

mind boggling because it just doesn't make

1:11:52

sense to me as a citizen

1:11:54

and as a patron of the rec center. The

1:11:56

positions of the houses something had

1:11:59

to have been seen. But then again, the

1:12:01

costs may have more information on file that

1:12:03

is improving to the public. But Anyway,

1:12:05

that's my zero point zero four dollars about the

1:12:08

story. Wanted to say we love

1:12:10

your podcast and we definitely

1:12:12

keep our heads on a slow and keep our own

1:12:14

mindset. Time taking in. I hope you do the same.

1:12:16

Thanks. Bye.

1:12:18

Oh,

1:12:18

I remember Carrie Anne.

1:12:19

Yeah. We used to work with her and

1:12:23

you know, I miss a lot of the people that

1:12:25

I that I used to work with. I don't miss going

1:12:27

to work. I just miss the people.

1:12:29

And I don't miss the work. Just the

1:12:31

people. Just the people. But we appreciate

1:12:33

you calling in very much. Oh

1:12:36

my god. Y'all you

1:12:38

are so freaking funny.

1:12:42

Just listening to an unsolved

1:12:45

episode, I believe it's Andy Boss.

1:12:48

Where you guys talked about how she

1:12:50

loved her guitar so much,

1:12:53

and she named it Harley. And

1:12:56

give you asked Mike

1:12:59

if he would name his guitar.

1:13:02

And he said, yeah. I name it

1:13:04

Gary because it doesn't do

1:13:06

anything and it just sits in the corner.

1:13:09

And I about busted out

1:13:12

laughing so hard. And

1:13:14

I almost crashed the car because

1:13:17

somebody stopped really, really quickly in

1:13:19

front of me. And I

1:13:21

was so focused on how funny that

1:13:23

was that obviously was not paying

1:13:25

attention to the car in front

1:13:27

of me. But, luckily, didn't didn't get an

1:13:29

accident and and

1:13:32

I'm listening to you guys on the way to work

1:13:34

this morning. So thank you for starting

1:13:37

my day off. With a

1:13:39

a laugh because I totally needed

1:13:41

that today. Okay,

1:13:43

guys. We'll keep you laughing. Stay

1:13:46

safe, head on a

1:13:47

swivel, and keep your own time ticking

1:13:49

by y'all.

1:13:50

Yeah. That was really funny.

1:13:53

I gotta kick out of

1:13:54

it. She gotta kick out of it. See

1:13:56

that. Hey. This is diesel from

1:13:58

Wisconsin. You probably

1:14:00

got lots

1:14:03

of voicemails on this, but given you

1:14:05

talking about the movie with the

1:14:09

the dogs in the snow and I've all been at

1:14:11

where the guy had to, you

1:14:13

know and and

1:14:16

then he came back later. That

1:14:18

movie is April o and

1:14:20

it was with Paul Walker and

1:14:23

the dogs popped their heads up by the snow and

1:14:25

rainy withhold blah blah blah. It's a really cool

1:14:27

movie. Fergie, you should really watch

1:14:29

it. It's awesome. It's it's

1:14:32

heartwarming, you'll laugh, you'll cry,

1:14:34

you'll scream, you'll everything.

1:14:37

Anyways, yes.

1:14:41

Give me that one. Right? For once.

1:14:45

But for me, this one is for you.

1:14:48

You should if you haven't

1:14:51

seen issue wise, the

1:14:54

movie, Glory Road. It's

1:14:56

a really awesome movie. Just

1:14:59

sweat. You

1:15:01

watch it if you haven't already and

1:15:04

see what you think.

1:15:06

Have a good one. Keep your own

1:15:08

time taken. Yeah. So appreciate

1:15:11

the voice mail. I'm I'm putting that tally

1:15:13

down for Gimi getting one right because

1:15:15

we keep a board up here in the studio. Thanks,

1:15:17

Kizel. And I have seen Gloria

1:15:19

Road because it does involve my

1:15:21

Kentucky Wildcats. They're they're

1:15:24

kind of the villains in that story,

1:15:26

but not the player so much. But,

1:15:28

you know, maybe they are a little bit too,

1:15:30

but the coach for sure. But it's a good

1:15:32

movie for anybody that's not seen

1:15:34

at Tartewarm. Alright, buddy. That's it.

1:15:37

For another episode of True Crime all

1:15:39

the time unsolved. So for Mike, and

1:15:41

give me, stay safe and keep your own time

1:15:43

ticking.

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