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details. Sometime

1:06

in the early 80s, Ario

1:08

Speedwagon's airplane made an unannounced,

1:10

middle-of-the-night landing. This is my

1:12

friend Kyle McLaughlin, the star

1:14

of Twin Peaks. And

1:17

he's telling me about how he discovered a

1:19

real-life Twin Peaks in rural North Carolina, not

1:21

far from where he filmed Blue Velvet. What

1:23

was on the plane was copious amounts of

1:25

drugs coming in from South America. Supposedly

1:28

Pablo Escobar went looking for other spots.

1:30

Quiet. Out of the way places to

1:32

bring in his cocaine. My

1:37

name is Joshua Davis and I'm an investigative

1:39

reporter. Kyle and I

1:41

talk all the time about the strange things we

1:43

come across. But nothing was quite as strange as

1:45

what we found in Varnum Town, North Carolina. There's

1:49

crooked cops, brother against brother. Everyone's got

1:51

a story to tell, but does the

1:53

truth even exist? Welcome

1:56

to Varnum Town. Varnum

1:58

Town is available. Wherever you listen

2:00

to podcasts, He.

2:20

He. However,

2:39

One and welcome Gap Some Three Fifty

2:41

have the true crime all the time

2:43

on Saw podcasts. I'm Mike Ferguson and

2:45

with me is always my partner and

2:48

true Crime my Gibbs and give me

2:50

how are you a Mount Doom good

2:52

look at every made it Three Fifty

2:54

Three Sisters some milestone it is and

2:57

we have a big episode in store

2:59

for everyone. But first let's Gwen give

3:01

our patrons shout outs. We had Catherine

3:04

Christian they gather Tv was going on

3:06

Kb best theme of it Martin Angela

3:08

Stay. Him and a. Catherine vol

3:10

aback when what's going on. Catherine.

3:13

Lisa. Thrasher jumps out our

3:15

highest level. Airs: Thrasher Melissa,

3:17

Melissa Jace less per se

3:19

Dead Jays ran teachings what's

3:21

going on? Hitchings toss a

3:24

minority jumped onto a high

3:26

level. Ah, you're awesome! Tasha,

3:28

Kimberly Harris Ears. Sar.

3:31

Jumped out our high slum. This is a cool

3:33

name Sean. And. Last and always

3:35

Thomas Ranch. Six times and then we

3:37

go back into the vault. This

3:41

week we selected Laura Spokesman. Now

3:43

thank you all the appreciate that

3:45

continued support And then we are

3:48

a couple of great pay pal

3:50

donations from Terry Volume a Terrorist

3:53

and Maxine Rebecca credits per Se

3:55

Dad M R K Thank you

3:57

to everyone. Gives. right now we have

4:00

episode out on TCAT where we're talking

4:02

about the murder of Dan

4:04

Markell and this is

4:06

such a fascinating web

4:10

of people who are involved in this

4:12

murder or thought to have been involved

4:14

in this murder and it's kind of

4:16

a still ongoing but solved case is

4:19

the best way to describe it. You

4:21

just wonder why people do what they do. Yeah. I

4:24

mean to have your in-laws involved

4:27

in your murder, okay, makes

4:30

you question, made me question

4:33

my relationship with my in-laws. So

4:35

why you're not going over there for dinner anymore? That's

4:38

exactly why. All right buddy, are

4:40

you ready to get into this 350th episode of true

4:42

crime all the time on

4:45

salt? I'm ready. We are taking

4:48

on the Dyatlov Pass

4:50

incident. So we're going to drink some

4:52

vodka while we do this? We might have to. We

4:54

might have to because it's about to get really,

4:56

really cold. In February 1959, a

5:00

group of nine hikers died

5:02

in a remote region of

5:04

Russia's Ural Mount. Something

5:06

caused them to cut their

5:08

way out of their tent and flee

5:11

into a snowstorm without proper clothing and

5:13

gear. While there are many

5:15

theories about what happened, some

5:17

more plausible than others, the

5:19

mystery that became known as

5:22

the Dyatlov Pass incident remains

5:24

unexplained. And like I

5:26

said, this is a really big unsolved

5:29

case and it's

5:32

a really big unsolved mystery. It really

5:34

is. 23

5:36

year old Igor Dyatlov was

5:39

described as a tinkerer, inventor

5:41

and wilderness devotee by

5:44

the New Yorker. You know, I

5:46

love the wilderness, but

5:48

I don't love the wilderness when it's freezing.

5:51

So you like 70 degree wilderness? Yeah.

5:56

Not Russia Ural Mountain wilderness?

5:58

No. I think I'm

6:00

with you on that. But I

6:02

was kind of looking at

6:04

the description of this guy and thinking,

6:07

okay, this is a lot like

6:09

Gibby. You're a tinkerer, you're

6:12

a quasi inventor and a wilderness

6:14

devotee. As long as it's not freezing

6:16

out. Igor was a fifth

6:19

year radio engineering student at

6:21

the Katterenberg's Polytechnic

6:24

Institute, abbreviated

6:26

as UPI. It was

6:28

called Sverdlovsk before

6:31

the collapse of the Soviet Union.

6:34

Now, obviously we're in Russia here.

6:36

There's going to be city

6:38

names, people's names that

6:40

are hard to pronounce. I

6:42

will do my best. You always do. We tried

6:45

to look a lot of them up. Some we

6:47

could find, some we couldn't find. Not easy. It

6:50

wasn't easy to find all of them. It

6:52

was said that this was one of

6:54

the best technical universities in the country.

6:57

Graduates were often top

6:59

engineers who worked in

7:01

nuclear power, the weapons

7:03

industry or military engineering.

7:05

Impressive. Igor led

7:07

multiple wilderness trips during his

7:09

time at the university. It seemed

7:12

to me, and I think it was

7:15

clear from the research, that this was

7:17

his biggest passion outside of

7:20

inventing. He loved to be

7:22

outside and he loved to take people on

7:25

his adventures. It's good to have passion.

7:27

And you're a very passionate man

7:30

about a great many number of

7:32

things. Many passionate things? Yes.

7:35

In late 1958, Igor

7:37

began planning a winter

7:39

expedition. He planned a 16-day ski

7:41

trip in the Ural

7:44

Mountains, the north to

7:46

south mountain range dividing western

7:48

Russia from Siberia. It's

7:50

also the border between Europe and Asia.

7:53

The trip covered 350 miles in total, which

7:57

included 200 miles of skiing. Igor

8:00

planned a route never taken

8:03

by any Russian before. Adventurous.

8:06

Daring. I've

8:08

never skied a day in my life. I've talked

8:10

about it before. So I don't plan

8:13

to go down one hill.

8:15

I'm certainly not taking on a trip

8:18

that involves 200 miles of it. I'm

8:21

pretty sure after that one voicemail we got today,

8:24

you're not going to ski ever. No,

8:26

we did get a voicemail about skiing

8:28

on our TCAT episode. But

8:30

you hear Siberia. What

8:33

comes to mind? Frigid temperature.

8:36

Desolate. Just some

8:39

place you do not want to be.

8:41

Now, I don't know that for a

8:44

fact. I've never been there, but that's

8:46

what gets conjured up in my mind.

8:49

I'm thinking Bear, what's his name?

8:51

Bear Grylls? Bear Grylls? He's probably like, yeah, I

8:53

don't know. I don't even go there. I don't

8:55

even go there, man. According

8:57

to The New Yorker, the mountains were

8:59

gentle and rounded. Their barren

9:01

slopes rising from a vast boreal

9:04

forest of birch and fir. The

9:07

challenge wouldn't be rugged terrain,

9:09

but brutally cold temperatures, deep

9:12

snow, and high winds. You

9:15

know what I do not like? Brutally

9:17

cold temperatures, deep snow, and

9:19

high winds. That's like the

9:21

trifecta of what you don't like. No,

9:24

I don't like it at all. Igor

9:26

submitted a proposal to the

9:28

university's sports club. It was

9:30

approved, which meant he could

9:32

start recruiting people for the

9:34

expedition. Now, I get it. You

9:37

want to go on this adventure, but

9:39

when you start recruiting people, how are you

9:42

selling this thing? Hey, we're

9:44

going to go and do something

9:46

nobody or no Russians ever done

9:48

before. It's only 350 miles and 200 of

9:50

it will be skiing. Well,

9:54

maybe the sports club is like, go ahead

9:56

and approve it. He'll never get anybody to

9:58

go on this thing. thinking, Igor

10:01

recruited his classmate, 22 year old,

10:03

the Nada,

10:06

Koma, Gorova, and

10:08

seven other students and recent

10:11

graduates. All right. So you

10:13

got eight people. That's eight

10:15

more than I thought he would get. Yeah. All

10:18

of the members of the expedition

10:20

were considered the elite

10:23

of the Soviet youth per the

10:25

New Yorker, and were

10:27

experienced winter campers and cross country

10:29

skiers. So you better be elite.

10:32

Well, and you better be very experienced, right

10:35

in wilderness, winter

10:37

camping, and you better

10:40

be a really good skier. Another

10:42

group member was 23 year old Yuri Krivov Nyshinka,

10:48

who went by the name Georgie. He graduated

10:50

from UPI two years earlier and

10:52

worked as an engineer at a

10:55

nuclear complex. Georgie was known

10:57

for his jokes, songs and mandolin

11:00

playing. I know you love to play

11:02

the mandolin, Gibbs. I've

11:04

never understood it. There's

11:06

a certain technique. Well, there's

11:09

a technique to playing any instrument, but you

11:11

know, just pick up a guitar. I'm not

11:14

sure what the mandolin really serves. Two

11:16

more recent graduates were 23 year

11:19

old Rustin Slobodan,

11:22

and 23 year old Nikolai

11:24

Tibut Rinal, who was

11:27

of French descent. The other

11:29

students in the group were 22 year

11:31

old Yuri Yudin, 21 year old

11:34

Yuri Dovryshinko, and

11:36

24 year old Alexander

11:39

Kolovatov. The Neda

11:41

and Yuri Dovryshinko were

11:44

previously in a romantic

11:46

relationship. She fell in love

11:48

with him during an expedition when he chased

11:50

off a brown bear. She felt

11:53

nervous about going on this trip with him

11:55

because they were no longer together. You

11:57

know, what's a great way to win

12:00

a woman's affection. Chase off a

12:02

brown bear? Yeah, I mean you're

12:04

really proving yourself as

12:06

the protector. Nothing

12:09

bad will happen to you on my

12:11

watch because I'll chase those bears away.

12:14

The youngest group member was

12:16

20-year-old Ludmilla Dobanin,

12:20

an econ major and track athlete.

12:23

Ludmilla was a strong and brave young

12:25

woman. She was once accidentally shot by

12:27

a hunter and had to hike 50 miles

12:30

back to civilization. That's pretty

12:32

tough. It's pretty tough

12:34

to get 50 miles away from civilization

12:37

based on what we're used to. Right.

12:39

Now, obviously places in Russia, you

12:41

can I think easily get 50 miles

12:44

away from civilization, but

12:46

you are pretty strong and brave. Regardless

12:49

of sex, if you get

12:51

shot and then have to make

12:53

it 50 miles back

12:55

to get help. A few

12:58

days before the expedition was scheduled to

13:00

start, the UPI added a new member

13:02

to the group, 37-year-old

13:05

Simon Zolotirov,

13:08

a World War II veteran and

13:10

sports instructor. I mean, it does sound like

13:12

they have the A-Team. Well, as far

13:14

as people who know what the heck they're

13:16

doing, yeah, the one thing that does jump

13:19

out at me is that Simon

13:22

is quite a bit older than

13:25

the rest of the group. At 27,

13:27

the others seem to be in

13:29

their early 20s. But what I'm

13:31

not hearing is a lot of novice

13:33

people. No, I think these

13:35

are people who are physically fit,

13:38

have experience camping, skiing,

13:40

all of that type of stuff. But

13:42

again, if you didn't have it, why

13:45

would you even think

13:47

about going on this trip?

13:50

On January 23, 1959, the group of 10 departed from the city

13:52

of Sverdlosk.

13:58

They boarded a sleeper train. Some

14:00

group members hid under the seats so

14:02

that they wouldn't have to buy tickets.

14:05

Remember the old days of the drive-in

14:07

movie? Oh yeah. Where you'd see

14:09

how many people you could pile into your trunk. I've

14:12

been in that trunk before. So they wouldn't have to buy a

14:14

ticket. They were all in good spirits and

14:17

they were having a fun time. Goofing

14:19

off before their trip, Georgie was

14:21

actually detained by the police for

14:24

playing as mandolin and

14:26

pretending to panhandle at one

14:28

of the train stations on their journey. I

14:31

think if you're going to pretend that you're panhandling,

14:34

probably not a smart thing to

14:36

do in front of the Russian army. Oh,

14:38

I was thinking, I was thinking just

14:40

playing the mandolin would get you detained. Some

14:43

people love the mandolin playing. Now

14:45

watch, I'm making jokes about the mandolin and

14:47

I'm going to have a whole bunch of

14:49

listeners who play the mandolin. They're going to

14:52

angrily write into me. Get yourself in trouble.

14:55

I am. A lot of

14:57

what we know about the group's

14:59

activities comes from their shared journal

15:01

and personal journals. At least five

15:03

of them had cameras to document

15:06

their journey. And I'm sure

15:08

we'll be talking about it as we go

15:10

through the episode, but it's one of the

15:12

very intriguing aspects of

15:14

this case is that

15:17

there are quite a few pictures

15:19

from this adventure. Some

15:22

of them taken just

15:24

before the tragedy.

15:27

BBC published one of Lidmilla's

15:29

diary entries. She wrote, in

15:32

the train, we all sing songs

15:34

accompanied by a mandolin. Then

15:37

out of the blue, this really drunk guy

15:39

came up to our boys and accused them

15:41

of stealing a bottle of vodka. He

15:44

demanded it back and threatened to punch

15:46

them in the teeth, but he couldn't prove

15:48

anything. And eventually he got lost. We

15:51

sang and sang and no one

15:53

even noticed how we slipped into a

15:55

discussion about love and kisses

15:58

in particular. Just so. regular

16:00

night on the train, singing some

16:02

songs and talking about love and kisses.

16:05

Sounds like your type of trip. One I've taken

16:07

many a time. On January

16:09

25, the group reached a remote

16:12

town in Eadale, which

16:14

used to house one of Stalin's

16:17

prison camps. They rode

16:19

a truck to a village called Visay

16:21

and spent the night there. The Neda

16:24

and Igor sent letters home from

16:26

the local post office. This

16:28

was their last stop before they

16:30

reached the area, now known as

16:32

the Atlov Pass. The

16:35

group rode a truck to a logging

16:37

base called the 41st Settlement. From

16:40

there, they were on their own. That's

16:42

when things get real. Well, and for

16:44

me, and my way

16:46

of thinking, that's when things would

16:49

have gotten scary. Okay, we're

16:52

on a train. That's great.

16:54

We're talking, singing, laughing,

16:56

talking about kissing. All

16:59

of that's fine and dandy. We hit

17:01

a settlement, we ride in a truck, and

17:04

then all of a sudden, they're like, get out of

17:06

the truck, you're on your own. I mean,

17:08

all the comforts of civilization are gone.

17:11

The Neda wrote in her journal, per

17:13

the BBC, it turns out that

17:15

this is our last day of

17:17

civilization. In the last chance,

17:20

me and Ludmilla

17:23

had to sleep in bed. Tonight, we're

17:25

going to be in a tent. On

17:28

January 28th, Yuri Yudin was

17:30

forced to drop out of the

17:32

trip due to a flare-up of

17:35

sciatica. Well, you know what? When you sleep

17:37

on regular surfaces, it's

17:39

probably going to flare it up. Like the ground? Like the

17:42

ground. And that can really jack

17:44

a person up. He left

17:46

the group before they started the most

17:48

difficult part of their journey. Their

17:51

goal was to reach Mount O'Torton.

17:54

Many believe that the name means

17:57

don't go there in the

17:59

mansy. Meet. The. Man

18:01

the are indigenous people. Who.

18:03

Have inhabited the region for hundreds

18:06

of year. Were. You know who know the

18:08

area the best then. That. Means he. Oh

18:10

absolutely. Amazing. Force Warden

18:13

told the Bbc that. Who.

18:15

Toured and actually means mountain

18:17

with swirling when. You.

18:19

Know where I don't want to go. Of a

18:21

mountain was swirling When's yeah? exactly? Eventually,

18:24

the part of the mound that

18:26

the skiers were traveling to but

18:28

did not reach was named. The.

18:30

I love pets. The

18:32

group plan to return to the

18:34

village of the set. on Feb

18:36

twelve. Igor was supposed to send

18:39

a telegram. To. The University

18:41

Sports Club to let them

18:43

know they returned safely. Based.

18:45

On photos taken by the group. We.

18:48

Know that they pitched their turn

18:50

on the mountain on February first.

18:52

Nineteen Fifty Nine. One. Of

18:54

the natives last diary

18:57

entries reads. All. Day

18:59

long. We. Follow the river. At.

19:01

Night we'll camp on a Manzi

19:03

trip. I. Burned my mittens

19:05

and. Your. His jacket

19:07

at the campfire. He cursed me

19:10

a lot. Well. Maybe he

19:12

wanted to have a jacket to keep

19:14

warm. Or I'm assuming.

19:16

He does and my thought is.

19:19

This. Must have been an accident, right? She

19:21

was burning her mittens on. Purpose.

19:24

I'm swimming has been an because those are

19:26

some you would really want to have with

19:28

you. U. P I Sports

19:30

clubs didn't receive a telenor

19:32

on the schedule Date: Sports.

19:35

Club officials assume the group was

19:37

off schedule. There. Were reports of

19:39

a heavy snow storm in the Ural

19:41

Mountains at this time? And

19:43

obviously we're talking about nineteen Fifty

19:45

Nine here. The. Methods of

19:48

communication were limited. And.

19:51

There. Really were no methods of

19:53

tracking people in real time.

19:56

My thought is. If you're

19:58

going on such an adventurous. Crip

20:01

pretty easy to get off schedule.

20:03

Maybe you're not able to travel

20:06

as much or as

20:08

far one day as you were scheduled to,

20:10

so I don't think it's unreasonable

20:13

for these people to have thought, okay, it's

20:15

going to take them an extra day or

20:17

two longer. Yeah. I

20:19

mean, it's not like they had smartphones and

20:22

GPS satellite devices and

20:25

satellite phones to help them out, right? I mean,

20:27

they were going off old

20:29

school. Mops. After

20:31

a few days of no communication

20:34

from anyone in the group, the

20:36

family started calling the university and

20:38

their local bureau of the communist

20:40

party. The search efforts started

20:42

on February 20th and

20:44

there were multiple search parties, some

20:47

were made up of student volunteers.

20:49

Some were guards from the prison

20:51

camp and Eve Dale or local

20:54

police. Some were mansy hunters and

20:56

the Russian military sent planes and

20:59

helicopters to assist with the search.

21:02

Sounds like all hands on. Yeah. I

21:04

mean, this is a pretty

21:06

quick and massive response. It

21:09

turned out that it was

21:11

the students who made a disturbing

21:13

discovery. On February 25th,

21:15

they found ski tracks. On

21:18

the 26th, they found a

21:20

tent above the tree line on

21:22

a remote mountain called height one

21:25

zero seven nine. The mansy

21:27

people called it dead mountain. Okay.

21:30

You know, the last place I want to go to dead

21:32

mountain. There's a lot of last places you

21:34

don't want to be. Yeah. But no one

21:36

was found inside the tent. The

21:39

tent had partially collapsed and was buried

21:41

by snow. Once the

21:43

search party uncovered it, they saw that

21:45

it was slashed in several

21:47

places. Okay. So it's

21:50

a discovery. I

21:52

use the word disturbing. It's not

21:54

gruesome. It's not deadly, but

21:56

you wouldn't look at it and say, well, this

21:58

is a good sign. Yeah, I think you

22:01

have to have some major concerns because

22:04

if they've gone somewhere

22:06

else Why would they

22:08

have willingly left their tent

22:10

that that wouldn't make a lot

22:12

of sense and? Why

22:14

is the tent all slashed up all

22:17

of the belongings inside were neatly

22:19

organized? The group left

22:22

their boots axes and equipment on

22:25

either side of the tent entrance They

22:27

left food out as if they were about to

22:29

eat a meal They had a

22:32

stack of wood for heating and

22:34

they left behind their clothes cameras

22:36

and journals This is more disturbing.

22:38

Yeah, I think once you have that information Then

22:41

it's a little more dire True

22:45

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23:45

search party found distinct footprints

23:47

100 feet downhill The

23:50

footprints look like they belong to eight

23:53

or nine people who walk towards

23:55

the trees The print showed that some

23:58

of the group were wearing stockings and

24:00

some were barefoot. A searcher

24:02

later testified that they could

24:04

see the toe impressions in the snow.

24:07

One person wore a single ski

24:09

boot. Alright, I mean what

24:11

do you make of that if you're

24:13

in this search party? Because I'm

24:16

sure you're all bundled up. There's snow

24:18

on the ground, it's cold. Who

24:21

in the hell is just out walking

24:23

in their bare feet

24:26

through the snow willingly? At

24:28

this point I don't think you're thinking that right? I

24:30

think you're wondering why do these people

24:32

flee their tents so quick? One person

24:34

was able to get one boot on, some

24:36

had socks on, some didn't have any

24:38

socks on. What the heck was going

24:40

on? Part of the mystery. The

24:42

search party followed the prints downhill

24:45

for six to seven hundred yards

24:47

but they disappeared near the tree

24:49

line. On February 27th the search

24:52

teams found the bodies of Georgi

24:56

Kravanashenko and Yuri Dorshinko

24:59

under a cedar tree at the edge of

25:01

the woods. They were dressed in

25:03

nothing but their underwear and were lying

25:06

next to a fire that had gone

25:08

out. About 12 to 15 feet

25:11

up the tree the team could

25:13

see broken branches. They found

25:15

torn clothing and pieces of

25:17

skin on the tree trunk.

25:20

Is it they climbed up to see where

25:22

they were at maybe? Or

25:24

to get away from something? I mean

25:26

we just don't know. But I think

25:29

my first question is why were

25:31

they dressed in nothing but their

25:34

underwear? And I think if you're trying

25:36

to climb a tree in nothing but your

25:38

underwear in that type of weather. Okay

25:40

maybe you're gonna leave some skin behind.

25:43

Later in the day another search

25:45

party discovered the bodies of

25:47

Igor Dyatlov and

25:50

Zeneta Kolmogorova. It

25:53

seemed like they were trying to get back

25:55

to their tent when they died. Igor had

25:57

no shoes on and it looked like

26:00

Like, the NATO was trying to

26:02

scramble up the hill. The four bodies

26:04

were sent for autopsies. And

26:06

the search efforts continued. The

26:08

medical examiner found that Gregory had

26:11

blackened fingers and third degree burns

26:13

on one shin and one foot.

26:16

A piece of flesh was found

26:18

in his mouth. He had

26:20

bitten off a piece of skin on his

26:22

right knuckle. Makes you wonder what was

26:25

going on. Which part? The

26:27

part where he bit off part of his

26:30

knuckle or the whole thing? The whole thing.

26:32

Because I'm struggling to figure anything out

26:35

at this point. And I

26:37

think that's exactly why this has

26:40

been such an intriguing

26:43

mystery for so many years. Yuri

26:46

had burned hair on the

26:48

side of his head and one of

26:50

his socks was charred. All of

26:52

the bodies had bruises, abrasions,

26:54

scratches and cuts. Rustim

26:57

Slobanin's body was found on March

26:59

5th. He was also found

27:01

on the slope leading to the tent. He

27:04

had a sock on one foot and

27:06

a felt booty on the other. He

27:08

suffered a minor skull fracture. At

27:11

this point, the authorities launched

27:13

a homicide investigation led by

27:16

prosecutor Lev Ivanov. And

27:18

I don't know how you couldn't think that

27:21

this was anything other

27:23

than a homicide. Now we

27:26

have done stories where people have

27:28

gotten lost or they succumbed

27:31

to the element. But it's

27:33

kind of hard to think that was

27:35

the case here. You have the

27:37

slashed up tent. You have

27:39

these people seemingly

27:42

bolting out without

27:44

even putting on clothes or

27:46

boots, socks in

27:48

some cases. And

27:51

then one man has a skull

27:53

fracture. It's not like they were

27:55

just all found out in full

27:58

clothing. Then you might think, well, There

28:00

was a bad snowstorm, they got caught in

28:03

it, and they died of hypothermia

28:05

or something like that. That's

28:07

not what we're talking about here. The

28:09

Manzi people became suspects because they

28:12

were the only other people living

28:14

in this region. Manzi,

28:16

Forrest, Warden, Valerie, and

28:18

Yamab told the BBC, Soviet

28:21

investigators were convinced that we

28:23

Manzi must have killed them.

28:26

So many people around here were arrested,

28:28

and a woman from another village who

28:30

was no longer with us used

28:32

to say that the secret police tortured

28:34

them. I don't know if that is true,

28:37

but they were certainly interrogated for weeks.

28:39

I'm sure they were. Somebody

28:41

wanted answers. Now whether it's

28:44

true or not, it's always been

28:46

thought, Gibbs, that the Soviets didn't

28:49

really have a lot of

28:51

limits to some of their questioning

28:54

techniques. They had some

28:56

questionable tactics, some

28:59

brutal tactics. I think in some

29:01

cases, not to say that

29:03

other countries didn't or haven't, the

29:05

Manzi people were eventually ruled out

29:07

as suspects. And even though the

29:10

government accused them of murder, they

29:12

still agreed to help with the

29:14

search efforts. That says something.

29:16

Yeah, I think it does. Meanwhile,

29:19

investigators performed toxicology tests on

29:21

the bodies, took witness testimony,

29:23

and made diagrams and maps

29:25

of the scene. The

29:27

police flew out the tent and the

29:29

items found inside, and

29:31

created a reconstruction inside

29:33

the station. Because they're

29:35

definitely not going to want to be standing

29:38

out there trying to figure it

29:40

out. In the cold and the wind and the

29:42

snow? Yeah, and all that. Let's reconstruct

29:44

this thing in a

29:46

warm environment so we can try to figure

29:48

it out. A seamstress who

29:51

happened to be at the station

29:53

for a uniform fitting pointed

29:55

out that the slashes were

29:57

made from inside the tent.

30:00

And that's a very interesting observation

30:03

yeah you can tell by the way the fibers are it

30:05

was cut inside or outside i'm actually

30:08

surprised that the police investigators didn't figure

30:10

that part out, yeah i

30:12

didn't on them and maybe

30:14

they didn't think

30:16

about it because that's

30:18

not where their mind was going it was

30:21

that someone had attacked the tent

30:23

from the outside, what would

30:25

this knowledge of kinda meant that

30:28

something disturbed or frightened the group

30:30

so much that maybe they cut

30:32

their way out of the tent

30:34

and ran outside into the blizzard

30:36

like weather with hardly any clothing

30:38

on. This was a soul horrible

30:41

you would think they take some bad mushrooms

30:43

or something. Yeah some type of

30:45

drug that made them

30:48

hallucinate something like that

30:50

right. I'm also thinking

30:52

yeti here the yeti is

30:54

entering my mind you always get

30:57

yeti on your mind i do it

30:59

was sad that the temperatures were

31:01

around twenty below zero. At

31:03

that time and we mentioned it right

31:06

all these people were experienced campers it

31:08

wasn't like they didn't know that they

31:10

would die if they went outside. For

31:13

extended periods of time without proper

31:15

clothing and gear whatever the

31:17

reason was out weighed the risk.

31:20

Add to it had to have

31:22

been so life threatening that they

31:25

were willing to risk their life

31:28

out in the cold. Only time

31:30

i ever wanted to get a tent so

31:32

bad the time you and i went camping in

31:34

that night you ate that whole can of beans and

31:37

i couldn't be in the tent anymore it was just

31:39

too bad. And we've never been

31:41

back to brookback mountain nor will

31:43

we. In early may

31:45

a man the hunter and his

31:47

dog discovered a snow in the

31:50

woods about two hundred fifty feet

31:52

from the cedar tree where two

31:54

bodies were found in late february

31:56

the snow den consistent of a

31:58

floor of branches. in a deep

32:00

hole in the snow. Pieces of clothing

32:03

were found inside the den, including

32:05

a pair of black sweats with the right

32:07

leg cut off and the

32:09

left half of a woman's sweater.

32:12

And that's one of the things about this

32:14

case, it seems like every detail is

32:17

strange. Bizarre. Why would

32:19

the right leg of some sweatpants

32:22

be cut off? And why would

32:24

only the left half of a

32:26

woman's sweater be there? Now

32:28

I understand if you're stuck out in

32:31

the cold, okay, you're making

32:33

this what they're calling a snow den

32:35

and you're trying to trap your body

32:37

heat inside of it. I've

32:39

seen that on survival shows. A

32:42

search team found a piece of flesh inside

32:45

the den. They brought in

32:47

excavating equipment and found the

32:49

four missing hikers lying together

32:51

on a rocky stream bed.

32:54

They had been buried by at least 10 feet

32:56

of snow. 10 feet? That's

32:58

a lot of snow. But I guess if you

33:01

have a blizzard, you could pile up

33:03

10 feet pretty quickly. Yeah, I'm thinking

33:05

up in that area. It probably didn't take very long.

33:08

But again, we're talking

33:10

about a piece of flesh. Piece

33:12

of flesh on the tree. Piece of flesh

33:15

inside this den. A piece

33:17

of flesh inside one of the

33:19

victim's mouths. Now my

33:21

first thought is that in

33:24

that kind of cold, wet environment,

33:27

could your flesh come off pretty

33:29

easily? Could it get stuck and

33:32

kind of rip off? Are

33:34

you thinking like the Christmas story when the guy licks the

33:36

pole and he can't get his tongue

33:38

off? First of all, he doesn't lick it. He

33:40

just sticks his tongue to the pole. But yes,

33:43

that same type of theory where

33:46

it's so cold it sticks to your

33:48

skin and if you move, maybe some

33:51

of the flesh rips off. I don't know. I'm just

33:53

trying to think of a reasoning

33:55

for all this flesh that

33:58

they're finding. four suffered

34:01

severe injuries. Nikolai

34:03

T. Boot, Brinall

34:06

had pieces of bone inside

34:08

his brain from a

34:10

severe skull fracture. Some

34:12

type of fall or, or other,

34:15

right? Something else. Cimlone

34:17

and Ludmilla had crushed chest

34:20

with multiple broken ribs. Ludmilla

34:23

had a massive hemorrhage in

34:25

the right ventricle of her

34:27

heart. The medical examiner described

34:29

it as similar to

34:31

the impact of a fast moving

34:33

car. Alexander Kolovitov

34:36

had a wound behind his ear

34:38

and his neck was twisted. Well,

34:40

sounds like maybe the guy hit by like

34:42

an avalanche or something. Or a Yeti

34:45

or a Yeti. I mean, it

34:47

sounds like injuries that

34:49

were made by something powerful. Now

34:52

that could have been nature, like

34:54

in the form of an avalanche

34:56

or, you know, maybe, I

34:58

don't know, are there winds high

35:01

enough out there that would throw trees

35:03

like in a hurricane or a tornado?

35:05

I don't know. But when you

35:07

say that these are similar

35:10

to getting hit by

35:12

a fast moving car, well, what

35:14

out in the wilderness is going to do that?

35:17

Besides your Yeti? Besides the Yeti. Bear,

35:20

maybe, right? Maybe. Cimlone's

35:22

eyes were missing. And

35:25

Ludmilla was missing her eyes,

35:27

tongue, and part of her

35:29

upper lip. Okay. And

35:31

there are some photos out there of

35:34

some of the victims. They're very

35:36

graphic. They're disturbing. Now,

35:38

could you say that maybe

35:40

these individuals died

35:43

before the other two and the

35:46

other two decided to cut

35:48

away or use

35:50

the eyes and part of the lip

35:53

as food? Yeah. I mean, you're

35:55

talking about like an alive situation.

35:57

Yeah. That seems strange to me

35:59

because. because they're not all that far from

36:02

the tent, right? If

36:05

they can get there. Is

36:07

that what you were saying? If they can get there, but first, can

36:09

they still see it? Do they know where it's

36:11

at? Well, yeah, I don't know all of that. It

36:13

just seems like to me, it might be

36:15

easier to get back to the tent area than

36:18

it would be to eat

36:20

some of these people for food. And

36:22

I'm not sure that these are the spots

36:24

that you would cut to eat.

36:27

I'm kind of thinking maybe more

36:30

likely this might've been animals,

36:32

maybe, but I don't know. I'm

36:35

not ruling anything out. And if you

36:37

were too injured to try to get to the

36:39

tent and you couldn't really travel

36:42

and that body's right there, I mean. Yeah,

36:45

but would you eat somebody's eyes? Would that

36:47

be the first thing that you

36:49

would think about? Not to be graphic, but maybe

36:52

it's an easier thing to take

36:54

from a body with your bare hands. I understand

36:57

what you're saying. Yeah. I

36:59

don't know. The medical examiner

37:01

noted that none of the bodies

37:03

had external penetrating wounds. Some

37:06

of the victims were wearing

37:08

clothing taken from or cut

37:10

off another person's body. Well,

37:13

that makes sense if the other person passed,

37:15

it's freezing cold. You're gonna take their clothes.

37:17

Yes, they no longer need them. Yes. Laboratory

37:20

testing found that several items emitted

37:23

unnaturally high levels of

37:26

radiation. Okay, so we don't

37:28

have enough in the way of strangeness.

37:31

We now have to add in radiation.

37:35

Yeah, so was there some type of testing

37:38

going on in that area? I mean,

37:40

we're gonna get into all the theories, but

37:42

whew. But the word

37:44

he set up a makeshift morgue

37:47

in the town of Edo, which

37:49

was surrounded by KGB officers who

37:51

refused to let anyone in without

37:53

authorization. Large barrel of alcohol

37:56

was delivered before the autopsies, which

37:58

may have been used. to

38:00

protect investigators from radiation.

38:03

An expert later testified that the

38:05

radiation levels were likely much higher

38:07

at one point, but decreased

38:10

because the bodies were exposed

38:12

to running water for several

38:14

months. Despite the major

38:16

discovery, prosecutor Lev Ivanov

38:19

abruptly ended the investigation on May 28, 1959. This

38:21

was because his only job was to determine

38:27

whether a crime had been committed.

38:30

He found that homicide was not a factor

38:32

in this case. He was

38:34

not obligated to figure out what happened

38:36

to the hikers if no

38:38

crime occurred. He wrote in his

38:41

report, according to The New Yorker, it

38:43

should be concluded that the cause

38:45

of the hikers' demise was an

38:48

overwhelming force which they were

38:50

not able to overcome.

38:53

Okay, an overwhelming force

38:55

of, we don't know, Bear,

38:58

Yeti, Radiation, Rading

39:01

Party, I mean, in response

39:03

to the tragedy, the director of

39:05

the UPI and the chairman of

39:08

the sports club were fired, as

39:10

well as the local Communist Party

39:12

secretary, the chairman of two

39:14

workers unions, and a union inspector.

39:17

Man, they cleaned house. The investigative

39:19

files were sealed, and

39:21

the area surrounding Dead Mountain was

39:23

closed off to skiers and hikers

39:25

for many years. So we

39:28

have this unbelievable tragedy.

39:31

Nine people died. Right.

39:34

We got a lot of strange factors, or

39:37

we have a lot of strange

39:39

things that were found. It's

39:42

like this massive search, and

39:44

then all of a sudden just kind of nothing.

39:47

We're done. We're closing it off. Investigators

39:49

eventually had to throw out the tent

39:51

because of mold, but the victims'

39:54

families wanted answers. They wrote

39:56

to officials, including Soviet

39:58

Premier Nikita Kita Khrushchev

40:01

to ask for a thorough investigation,

40:03

but this never happened. The official

40:05

Soviet conclusion was that the

40:08

group died because of

40:10

the spontaneous power of

40:12

nature, according to Reuters.

40:15

I was like saying whether it

40:17

was an avalanche or something

40:19

similar to that. Yes. But

40:22

what set off that avalanche? Nature? Testing.

40:25

I know you're going back to the

40:27

radiation, some kind of testing. But

40:30

the spontaneous power of nature is

40:32

very, very broad. Oh

40:34

yeah. I mean, you're leaving a

40:36

lot for interpretation. Yeah, absolutely. The

40:39

Russian prosecutor general's office listed 75

40:42

official theories about what happened,

40:44

75. That's a lot

40:46

of different theories. In

40:49

1990, former prosecutor Lev Ivanov published

40:51

an article claiming he was pressured

40:53

not to include his opinion on

40:56

what happened in his 1959 report.

41:00

In his article, the Enigma of

41:02

the Fireballs, he wrote that the

41:04

group was killed by heat rays

41:06

or balls of fire associated

41:09

with UFO, according to

41:11

the New Yorker. So that was his

41:13

opinion. There's no way that he could have known

41:16

that for a fact. You

41:19

know what else puts out heat waves and

41:21

balls of fire? Nuclear testing.

41:24

He claimed that in his original

41:26

examination of the mountain, he found

41:29

trees with strange burn marks. This

41:31

confirmed that some kind of heat

41:33

ray, say, or

41:36

some powerful force whose nature is

41:38

completely unknown, to us at least,

41:41

acted selectively on specific

41:43

objects. So he's deep down the

41:46

rabbit hole of UFO. He is. He

41:48

cited the final photograph

41:51

in Georgie's camera, which showed

41:53

flares and streaks of light on

41:56

a black background. The New Yorker,

41:58

however, noted that this is is common

42:00

at the end of a film world. The

42:03

Dyatlov Pass incident became one

42:05

of the most high-profile mysteries

42:07

of the Soviet era. People

42:10

became even more interested when the

42:12

case files were declassified. In

42:15

2000, the victims' families established

42:17

the Dyatlov Group Memorial Foundation

42:20

to honor their memory and

42:22

find the truth. The

42:24

president of the foundation Yuri Kunsevich

42:29

leads tours to the Dyatlov

42:31

Pass area. He told the New

42:34

Yorker that Russians typically believe

42:36

in two theories, that the

42:38

Skirs died because they accidentally

42:40

discovered an area where the

42:42

government was testing secret weapons

42:45

or that they were killed by mercenaries

42:47

who were likely American spies. Oh,

42:50

gotta throw the Americans in there. Always.

42:53

To be fair though, Americans for

42:55

years have always thrown the Soviets in

42:58

there. Yeah, let's be fair about that.

43:01

Now he has said he believes in the

43:03

first theory and so do the families. They

43:05

believe that the group was injured by

43:07

a missile launch and had to flee

43:10

their tent. They froze to death

43:12

or were killed by military members. So I

43:14

think this is going back to what you

43:16

were kind of alluding to. This

43:20

radiation, heat. I

43:22

mean it does explain or

43:24

helps explain some of the

43:26

burn marks on some of

43:28

the victims. Yes, because I did think

43:31

that was interesting. I mean

43:33

if you were able to light a fire, it is

43:36

possible that you were so cold.

43:39

You were trying to get your

43:41

skin so close to the fire that you

43:43

wouldn't even know you were burning it. But

43:46

I don't know that they were able to light a

43:48

fire. I'm thinking how did they even start a fire?

43:50

Yeah, I don't know. They did

43:53

have fire starting material

43:55

after tent. That

43:58

part was noted. thought

44:00

is if you're not putting on

44:02

clothes or shoes you're

44:04

not grabbing fire starter stuff

44:06

no Yuri Yudin the lone

44:09

survivor died in 2013 before his death

44:13

he said he believed his former

44:15

companions were removed from their tin

44:17

at gunpoint and were killed and

44:20

that it was possible

44:22

Ludmilla had her tongue cut out because

44:25

she was the most outspoken of the

44:27

group supporters of this

44:29

theory site claims from residents who said

44:31

they saw flashes of light or moving

44:34

balls of fire in the area where

44:36

the bodies were found sources

44:38

don't specify though how far away

44:41

these residents were from the tent

44:43

site in 2008 a three-foot

44:46

long piece of metal was

44:48

discovered in the area where the

44:50

bodies were found the metal came

44:52

from a Soviet ballistic missile the

44:54

Dyatlov Foundation currently has this piece

44:57

of metal in its possession and

45:00

it's thought by many that this could

45:02

possibly explain why some of the items

45:04

recovered were highly radioactive Ivanov

45:06

superior within the prosecutor general's office

45:09

spoke to a newspaper in 2013

45:13

and said it was suspicious that

45:15

they were asked to test recovered

45:17

items for radiation he asked his

45:19

superiors why it was relevant to the

45:21

case the deputy prosecutor general

45:24

met with them but he avoided

45:26

questions about weapons testing and allegedly

45:28

ordered them to tell the public

45:30

that the deaths were accidental now

45:33

what cast doubt on the

45:35

secret weapons testing theory is

45:38

the lack of footprint evidence of additional

45:40

people at the scene there's also

45:42

no evidence of a secret weapons base

45:45

in the area or

45:47

evidence of an accidental missile

45:49

explosion if it's a secret

45:51

weapon wouldn't it be a secret

45:53

base yeah but you

45:55

would think by now it would

45:58

have been disclosed uncovered something I

46:00

mean, when you're talking about

46:02

footprints, okay, if you

46:04

are in blizzard conditions, would

46:07

those footprints eventually get covered

46:10

up? And I would say, yeah,

46:12

they would. But remember, they

46:14

found footprints of the

46:16

victims. It's true. So

46:19

it makes you wonder then. How,

46:21

let's say members of the military recover

46:24

up their footprints, if that's, you know,

46:26

who was involved. So that brings aliens

46:28

back in. Yeah, because there'd be

46:30

no footprints. Because they can float.

46:33

And it probably also rules out a Yeti.

46:36

Yeah, I think Yetis would have big

46:38

footprints. Big footprints. Another

46:42

theory revolves around Semyon

46:46

Zolotarov, the older man who

46:48

joined the group at the last minute. One

46:51

Russian book claims that he and

46:53

two other group members were KGB

46:55

agents who were on an assignment

46:58

to meet with CIA operatives in the

47:00

mountains. According to this theory, they

47:03

were supposed to offer

47:05

radioactively contaminated clothing. Samples

47:08

is bait. But the

47:10

CIA agents discovered the truth, killed

47:12

the group, and staged

47:15

the strange scene. Possible.

47:17

Well, there are a

47:19

lot of things that are possible, right?

47:22

That's why there are so many theories

47:24

floating around. But again,

47:26

if you have CIA agents out

47:28

there, no footprints, they

47:30

figured out a way to cover them up. My

47:33

other thought is, if you're in the

47:35

KGB, why do you need to be

47:37

with this group to cover? It's

47:40

a cover, but do you need a cover to

47:43

be out, to meet someone out in the middle of

47:45

nowhere? That, I thought, was a

47:47

little strange. Now, it

47:49

is possible that Semyon

47:51

was involved with the KGB

47:54

because it's been said that

47:56

his World War II service record has

47:58

holes in inconsistency. agencies,

48:00

per the New Yorker. Many doubt

48:03

that CIA operatives would choose such

48:05

a remote, extreme place for a

48:07

rendezvous point. Well, that's

48:09

the exact point that you made. Yeah, I mean, I

48:12

don't doubt that there was

48:14

a lot of clandestine stuff going

48:16

down in 1959. The

48:19

KGB, the CIA, they

48:22

were doing stuff that I'm sure we'll never

48:25

know about. But did they need

48:27

to meet, if they were going

48:29

to meet at a place called Dead Mountain,

48:31

when the weather was negative

48:34

20 degrees, it doesn't

48:36

make any sense. Yeah, I think they

48:38

would have chose a better meeting

48:41

point. Let's meet in Paris and have a cup

48:43

of coffee and a croissant.

48:46

A 2013 book by filmmaker

48:49

Donnie Eicher suggests that

48:51

high winds created infrasounds,

48:53

which are vibrations below

48:55

the human hearing range.

48:57

This caused the group to become so

49:00

terrified that they fled the tent. As

49:02

noted by the New Yorker, it's

49:04

unlikely that all nine of them would

49:07

be so afraid of infrasound

49:09

that they ran outside to

49:11

their deaths. Well, if they can't hear

49:13

it, but they can feel the vibrations, is

49:15

that what he's saying? I'm just wondering if they

49:18

felt, if they could feel the

49:20

vibrations, did they think it was

49:22

an avalanche and I think if they,

49:24

if you felt like an avalanche was coming your way, then

49:27

I think you would flee pretty quick out of

49:29

that tent. Yeah, I

49:31

get that thinking. I've

49:34

never heard the term infrasound,

49:36

so I don't know anything about

49:38

it. But here's the thing, are

49:41

you saying that the avalanche is just going

49:43

to hit the tent? It's

49:45

not going to hit the area that you run

49:48

towards or they were

49:50

just so scared they had no idea. I'm

49:52

thinking they were just so scared they weren't even sure which

49:54

way to go. All right, I don't

49:56

know if that theory has legs or not, but

49:58

I get what you're saying. saying, another

50:01

book suggests that the manzi killed

50:03

the group because they trespassed on

50:06

sacred land. But game warden

50:08

Valerie Anyamov dismissed this,

50:10

telling the BBC, if

50:12

any of our people had been involved in

50:14

that crime, they would have thrown

50:17

us all into prison because it was a

50:19

cruel time. In those

50:21

days, people were executed by

50:23

firing squad without investigation or

50:26

trial. Well, they were interviewed

50:28

for two weeks. Yeah, extensively

50:31

interrogated, I assume. The

50:34

BBC also spoke to Anyamov's

50:36

mother, Sanka. She claimed that

50:39

one day in February 1959, she

50:41

was outside gathering firewood when she

50:43

saw something in the sky. She

50:45

said, we were coming back from

50:48

the forest and we could see the village

50:50

ahead of us. This bright, burning

50:52

object appeared. It was wider

50:54

at the front and narrower at

50:57

the back with the tail. And

50:59

there were sparks flying off it. So

51:02

I don't know if that plays more

51:05

into the UFO

51:07

theories or into some

51:10

type of secret weapon

51:13

testing theories. You

51:15

know, if you think about it, there

51:17

were many people out in

51:20

Nevada and places like

51:22

that that thought

51:24

they saw UFOs when it really turned

51:27

out that we were just secretly testing

51:29

some kind of new plane

51:31

or new weapon. Which

51:34

could have been the same. Could have

51:36

been. Here. Now that could

51:38

explain, you know, maybe what this woman

51:40

saw, but how does it

51:42

explain the death of nine people? And

51:45

I think that's where people struggle

51:47

so much with this case. You

51:49

can kind of take the

51:51

road down, you know, any

51:53

of these theories, but at a certain

51:56

point, it seems as though there

51:58

are questions that you just can't. answer.

52:00

Yeah, I think you wondered the

52:03

first event that scared them put

52:05

them out in the elements and then the

52:08

elements killed them from exposure

52:10

to the frigid temperatures,

52:12

the lack of food, but what

52:15

scared them so much that they had to run away

52:17

from the tent so quickly in their underwear?

52:19

Yeah, I mean, that is

52:21

the big question. And I don't know how long

52:23

they were out there before they died. Was

52:26

it long enough that they were even, you

52:28

know, starving to death? They needed food

52:30

that badly. Yeah. But you're not going

52:33

to survive in your skivvies

52:35

in negative 20 weather.

52:38

Very long at all. Not

52:40

long enough to get hungry. I can tell you that.

52:42

Yeah, that's probably your least of your concern.

52:44

Yeah, would be. One of

52:46

the most out there theories is that

52:48

the group was attacked by a Yeti.

52:51

Evidence of this theory, if you

52:53

want to call it evidence, comes

52:56

from T. Butte-Brennoll's photographs.

53:00

And specifically his final photo, which

53:02

shows a dark figure with

53:04

no face in the snow. However,

53:06

it's commonly accepted that this is just

53:08

a blurry photo of one of the

53:11

group members. Or is it? Well,

53:13

we are talking about a camera from 1959. Yeah.

53:17

And, you know, photographic technology

53:19

being what it was. But I

53:21

know you like the Yeti. Possibility.

53:24

I like the Yeti possibility,

53:26

but again, going down

53:29

that theory road,

53:31

you're kind of stopped in your tracks

53:33

because I think there would be footprints.

53:36

There would be some type of evidence.

53:38

And you'd have to believe that Yeti's

53:41

exist. There's that hurdle too. It's

53:45

a pretty big hurdle. In

54:00

2019, the victims' relatives were able

54:03

to get the case reopened. Prosecutor

54:06

Andrei Kurekov organized

54:08

a winter expedition to the

54:10

site. His team took

54:12

measurements and photos, surveyed the

54:14

land, and did a variety

54:16

of experiments. They tried to

54:19

establish the exact location of the

54:21

tent and determined, based on historical

54:23

data, that the temperatures

54:26

were more extreme than

54:28

originally thought. It was

54:30

determined that the winds were up to 65

54:32

mph, and the temperatures were actually around

54:37

minus 30, rather than

54:39

minus 20. I'm thinking minus

54:41

20, minus 30. It's going to feel the same

54:43

to me at that point if I'm just in

54:45

my boxers. It's just going to kill you a

54:47

little bit quicker, I would think.

54:50

Now Kurekov dismissed 72 of the

54:52

75 official theories. And

54:56

obviously we can't talk about all 75 official

54:58

theories, it would take too long.

55:01

He said in his announcement, as quoted

55:03

by The New Yorker, a large

55:05

class of the 75 versions are

55:08

conspiracy theories, alleging

55:11

that the authorities were somehow involved

55:13

in the incident. We've

55:15

already proved that this is

55:17

absolutely false. So

55:19

that left three official

55:22

theories. An avalanche, a

55:25

hurricane, or a slab

55:27

of snow sliding over the tent.

55:29

So a slab of snow is like a

55:31

mini avalanche, I guess, or something, I don't

55:34

know. In July

55:36

2020, the prosecutor held a

55:38

press conference where he announced

55:40

that the slab avalanche

55:42

theory was the definitive

55:45

explanation for what happened. He

55:47

declared, formally, this is it. The

55:50

case is closed. According to

55:52

Forbes, slab avalanches are

55:55

responsible for almost 90% of

55:57

avalanche deaths. They're

56:00

formed by a sliding sheet

56:02

of hard, compacted snow. I

56:05

thought that's what an avalanche was. Well, I

56:07

think the difference between a

56:09

slab avalanche and an avalanche is the

56:11

amount of snow. Yeah, it's just a

56:14

little concentrated slab, right? That's what I'm

56:16

thinking. Right. Instead of like the

56:19

whole mountainside. The whole mountainside. When

56:21

the group was setting up camp on February 1st,

56:24

1959, the

56:26

snow was six feet deep. The

56:28

party took two photos at 5 p.m. The

56:31

photos show that they cut into

56:33

the snow to form a hollow

56:35

to pitch their tent. They

56:37

picked a spot where a mountain peak

56:39

sheltered them from the wind. Avalanches

56:43

most commonly occur on slopes greater than

56:45

30 degrees, but they

56:47

can happen at a lower angle. Many

56:50

researchers calculated that the tent was

56:52

pitched on a 15 degree slope.

56:55

However, prosecutor Curia Kobs,

56:58

experts found that the tent was actually

57:00

between 23 and 26

57:03

degrees, which could be steep enough

57:06

for avalanche formation in some cases.

57:09

As reported by Forbes, the

57:11

slope just above the campsite was 22 to 30 degrees,

57:15

and the mountain terrain was rugged with

57:17

large boulders jutting out from the ground,

57:20

which helped decrease the likelihood of

57:22

an avalanche. However, according

57:24

to slab avalanche theory, a snow

57:27

slab detached from the slope above them

57:29

and hit their tent, which could explain

57:31

their injuries and why they had to

57:34

cut their way out of the

57:36

tent. They might have feared that

57:38

a full-scale avalanche was coming, so they

57:40

fled to the woods for safety. There

57:43

was no evidence of an avalanche

57:45

ever occurring. The group members likely

57:47

tried to make their way back to the tent,

57:50

but they couldn't find their way because of

57:52

the darkness and the snowstorm, so they sheltered

57:54

in the woods and died that night. During

57:57

the new investigation, the

57:59

prosecutor... conducted a test where he

58:02

blindfolded a man and a woman and

58:04

led them 90 feet downhill from a

58:07

tent. They were unable to find

58:09

their way back. And this test

58:11

did not include blizzard conditions.

58:14

Yeah, no doubt. I believe that they probably couldn't

58:16

find their way back. But is it the

58:18

same? I don't know if I could get

58:20

from here to the bathroom blindfolded.

58:23

You have problems even when you don't have a

58:25

blindfold on. I just don't

58:27

know if it's the exact same test. But

58:30

maybe it is. You know, the conditions

58:32

dark, blizzard, it would be

58:35

very tough to find your way.

58:37

But could you use

58:39

tracks maybe that you made

58:41

coming? I think you

58:43

also have to take into consideration that their

58:46

anxiety level probably had to be

58:48

off the chart, but they're not thinking rationally.

58:51

But they were experienced hikers,

58:54

experienced skiers, experienced

58:58

outdoors people. Yeah, I mean,

59:00

to me, it seems like

59:03

they would have figured out a way to

59:06

find the tent 90 feet

59:09

away from them, if that's how far it was.

59:11

If that's how far they ran. I don't

59:14

know, man. I'm telling you, at the

59:16

end of this, it's just

59:18

a completely mesmerizing

59:20

mystery. It just is. The

59:24

Dyatlov Group Memorial Foundation did

59:26

not accept the official findings

59:29

of the investigation. The

59:31

foundation sent a letter to the

59:33

prosecutor general declaring that the

59:36

skiers died from the atmospheric

59:38

release of a

59:40

powerful toxic substance from

59:42

secret weapons testing. The

59:45

prosecutor general's office never released an

59:48

official report. And the

59:50

foundation is pushed for another investigation.

59:53

The New Yorker reported that the group's

59:55

skill and experience may have

59:57

been what killed them. They did

59:59

not pitch their tent in a safe

1:00:01

location, but their response to

1:00:03

the snow slab was correct. They

1:00:05

evacuated the tent and got to a

1:00:08

place where they would be safe from

1:00:10

an avalanche. They sheltered in the

1:00:12

woods and apparently they did start

1:00:14

a fire. Some of them dug a

1:00:16

snow cave. If they did

1:00:18

not know avalanche safety procedures,

1:00:21

it's possible they would have stayed near

1:00:23

their tent and might have survived. So

1:00:26

it's an interesting angle, you know,

1:00:28

from the New Yorker. They were so

1:00:30

experienced, they knew what to do in

1:00:33

the case of an avalanche. But if

1:00:35

it wasn't a real avalanche,

1:00:37

if it was only a slab avalanche,

1:00:40

then they would have been better

1:00:42

off and would have more likely

1:00:44

survived if they would have stayed by the tent.

1:00:47

And they could have got their clothes. They could

1:00:49

have started to fire there. In

1:00:52

January, 2021, two Swiss engineers

1:00:54

published a peer reviewed paper

1:00:56

corroborating the slab avalanche theory.

1:00:59

Their paper was published in the

1:01:02

journal Communications, Earth and Environment. That's

1:01:04

a great journal. It is. It is. I

1:01:06

know you look forward to it every

1:01:08

month, along with your highlights

1:01:10

magazine. It's good reads. Their

1:01:13

paper explained that the snow slab

1:01:15

did not release immediately when

1:01:17

the group cut into it to make

1:01:20

a hollow for their tent over

1:01:22

a period of several hours. Additional

1:01:24

snow caused the slab to release.

1:01:26

The Swiss researchers believe the snow

1:01:28

slab caused the severe injuries found

1:01:31

on some of the victims. According

1:01:33

to their paper, it's believed that

1:01:36

the group went downhill together and

1:01:38

sheltered under the Cedar tree where they built

1:01:40

a fire. Someone attempted to

1:01:42

climb the Cedar tree to break

1:01:45

off branches, which is why the

1:01:47

tree had pieces of skin on it. The

1:01:49

fire though, was not enough to keep them warm.

1:01:52

The two group members with the

1:01:54

least amount of clothing died first.

1:01:57

They were burned because they got too

1:01:59

close. to the fire in an effort

1:02:01

to get warm, it's possible

1:02:03

that Georgie bit his finger

1:02:06

because he was delirious from

1:02:08

hypothermia. The survivors stole

1:02:10

their clothing for themselves and

1:02:13

the group split up at some point. Three

1:02:15

of them tried to get back to the

1:02:17

tent and froze to death. Four

1:02:20

decided to build a snow den and a

1:02:22

ravine, but they picked a spot

1:02:24

above a stream that never freezes, which

1:02:26

made a deep tunnel in the snow.

1:02:29

Their digging caused the roof of the

1:02:31

tunnel to collapse, which buried them in

1:02:33

snow. The pressure of the

1:02:35

snow caused their injuries. The

1:02:38

damage to their faces was

1:02:40

likely caused by small scavenging

1:02:42

animals and decomposition.

1:02:45

Now the radiation, they said,

1:02:47

could possibly be explained

1:02:49

by the fact that the mammals used

1:02:52

in camp lanterns at that time contained

1:02:55

small amounts of a

1:02:57

radioactive element. Additionally, the

1:02:59

expedition took place after

1:03:02

the world's third worst nuclear

1:03:04

accident at the Mayak

1:03:06

nuclear complex when a

1:03:08

tank of radioactive waste exploded

1:03:11

and sent up a 200 mile long

1:03:13

plume. It was said

1:03:16

that Georgie worked at the facility

1:03:18

and helped with cleanup efforts and

1:03:20

another skier came from a contaminated

1:03:23

village. I mean, we're

1:03:25

finally hearing some plausible

1:03:28

explanations. Yeah, I think as far

1:03:30

as theories go, this

1:03:33

is the most

1:03:35

plausible of them all, I

1:03:37

would say. You know, UFOs, Yetis,

1:03:41

secret weapons testing

1:03:43

that then caused the

1:03:45

military to come in and kill all

1:03:47

these people. The evidence just

1:03:50

doesn't seem to support those. Now it's

1:03:52

kind of hard to find evidence to

1:03:54

support the UFO theory. I get that.

1:03:57

Or the Yeti. No, you could find

1:03:59

tracks. Well, if you believe in Yetis. Yes.

1:04:01

If you believed in Yetis, you

1:04:04

would expect to see big Yeti

1:04:06

footprints in the snow. Should

1:04:08

we tell the listeners that you have a

1:04:10

Yeti tattoo? No. Oh, okay. We

1:04:12

should not tell them that. And then they

1:04:14

even offer up an explanation for the

1:04:17

radioactivity. Now, whether

1:04:20

any of it's true or not, we

1:04:23

don't know. There's no way for us to know, but

1:04:25

it sounds believable. It sounds more

1:04:27

believable than most of the other theories.

1:04:31

That's for sure. Lead journal

1:04:33

author Johann Gombe told Life

1:04:35

Science, we do not claim

1:04:37

to have solved the Dyatlov

1:04:39

Pass mystery as no

1:04:41

one survived to tell the story,

1:04:44

but we show the plausibility of

1:04:46

the avalanche hypothesis for the first

1:04:48

time. And I liked the way that he

1:04:50

put it. He's basically saying,

1:04:53

we can't say for certain this is how it

1:04:55

happened. But what we are

1:04:57

doing is showing that it is plausible

1:04:59

that it did happen this way. Now,

1:05:02

critics of the slab avalanche

1:05:04

theory have four counter arguments.

1:05:06

According to Johann Gombe, a

1:05:08

lack of evidence of a

1:05:10

full scale avalanche, the

1:05:12

long gap between when the hikers

1:05:14

cut into the snow and

1:05:17

the time they left the tent, the

1:05:19

shallow slope and their injuries. Gombe

1:05:22

and his coauthor Alexander

1:05:24

Puzrin used historical

1:05:26

records to recreate the environment on

1:05:28

the night of the incident. They

1:05:31

simulated a slab avalanche using

1:05:33

data that showed the slope

1:05:35

was not as shallow as

1:05:37

previously thought, which meant a

1:05:40

small snow slide could have passed over the

1:05:42

tent. There would be little to

1:05:44

no evidence because it would be covered

1:05:46

up by new snow. They theorize

1:05:48

that catabatic winds

1:05:51

defined as fast flowing funnels

1:05:53

of air propelled by

1:05:55

the force of gravity per

1:05:57

the Smithsonian magazine. moved

1:06:00

the snow down the mountain and caused it

1:06:02

to fall. Okay, that is a

1:06:04

term I've never heard, but I

1:06:06

don't know a lot about

1:06:08

avalanches, skiing, or negative 30 degree

1:06:11

weather. And you even

1:06:13

dated a weather lady back in the day. Back in

1:06:15

the day. Puzrin said in an

1:06:18

interview with New Scientist, it was like

1:06:20

somebody coming and shoveling the snow from

1:06:22

one place and putting it

1:06:24

on the slope above the tent. New

1:06:27

Scientist also spoke to Jim

1:06:30

McElwain, a geohazards expert at

1:06:32

England's Durham University. He

1:06:34

said that the research does not

1:06:36

explain why the group ran outside

1:06:39

without clothing on. He

1:06:41

said, if you're in that type of harsh environment, it's

1:06:43

suicide to leave shelter without your

1:06:45

clothes on. For people to

1:06:48

do that, they must have been

1:06:50

terrified by something. I assume

1:06:52

that one of the most likely things is

1:06:55

that one of them went crazy for

1:06:57

some reason. I can't understand why

1:06:59

else they would have behaved in that

1:07:01

way unless they were trying to flee

1:07:03

from someone who's been tracking them. Gom

1:07:06

told Live Science in his separate interview,

1:07:08

when the hikers decided to go to

1:07:10

the forest, they took care of their

1:07:12

injured friends. No one was left behind.

1:07:15

I think it's a great story of courage

1:07:17

and friendship in the face of a brutal

1:07:19

force of nature. Now,

1:07:22

to be honest with you, I get what

1:07:24

both of these individuals are saying. So

1:07:26

let's imagine that a

1:07:29

little slab avalanche

1:07:32

came down on the tent. Yeah. Okay.

1:07:35

I can't imagine it would be a good thing. Some

1:07:38

people would be injured. Could

1:07:40

it cause skull fractures and things like

1:07:42

that? I don't know if it was

1:07:44

enough snow. I'm assuming it could. But

1:07:47

then I look at what McElwain is saying, if

1:07:49

you're an experienced camper

1:07:52

slash hiker, outdoors

1:07:54

person, you know you have

1:07:56

to get out of that tent. But

1:07:58

would you get out? would you

1:08:00

leave without putting hardly

1:08:03

any clothes on? Now, is

1:08:06

the thought that some of the is

1:08:08

the thought that none of these people left in

1:08:11

just their skivvies, right? Some

1:08:13

people's clothes were taken after they died maybe,

1:08:15

but they obviously didn't

1:08:19

take enough to survive. Yeah,

1:08:22

and I don't think you would run out

1:08:24

their foot. Yeah, exactly.

1:08:27

And maybe some did run out with

1:08:29

no shirt, no pants. But what

1:08:31

had to be so scary or

1:08:33

so alarming that they ran

1:08:36

off like that? You know, I mean, it could

1:08:38

have been the fact that they were concerned

1:08:40

that there was going to be a larger

1:08:42

avalanche coming. And I

1:08:44

understand that fear, but to me, that's

1:08:47

a maybe. And the certainty

1:08:50

is if I go out

1:08:52

in this weather with without the

1:08:54

proper clothes, I am going to die. Yeah.

1:08:56

The avalanche is a could be,

1:08:59

and that's to me the biggest

1:09:01

thing that doesn't fit. Yeah.

1:09:04

So then what makes you run?

1:09:07

If it's not the threat of

1:09:09

an avalanche, what makes you run

1:09:12

so scared that you don't

1:09:14

care whether you have clothes on or not? And

1:09:17

I don't know the answer. And I don't think

1:09:19

you could say it's somebody in your party since

1:09:21

they were all found together. Well,

1:09:24

yeah, the one person went crazy theory

1:09:26

that he put forward, there would have

1:09:28

to be more to it. They had

1:09:30

a weapon, they had a knife, they

1:09:32

were threatening everybody. But again, like you

1:09:35

said, they were all found together. So

1:09:37

that doesn't seem to make

1:09:39

any sense. So then you think maybe

1:09:42

it's a combination of a

1:09:45

secret weapon that also caused a

1:09:47

slope avalanche, adds to

1:09:50

radiation. You know, when you

1:09:52

see something or hear something that you've never seen

1:09:54

before, that's gonna be enough to scare you.

1:09:57

You know, you see like a Yeti.

1:10:00

a yeti or yeti. If

1:10:02

you see a yeti or you see some type of

1:10:06

explosion, but

1:10:08

there would be evidence of that explosion

1:10:11

unless it was somehow covered up. And

1:10:14

I don't think we can discount that

1:10:16

angle. The fact that the

1:10:19

government maybe was able

1:10:21

to cover up something that

1:10:23

they didn't want the public or the

1:10:25

rest of the world to know about.

1:10:28

Yeah, I think they could have covered it up.

1:10:30

I think also large

1:10:32

amounts of snow does a wonder

1:10:35

to cover things up. I mean, they did find a

1:10:38

metal, a piece of metal that appeared to

1:10:40

be from the military. So

1:10:43

I don't know. I

1:10:45

don't know, man. As we wrap this one up, I

1:10:48

don't think I've ever been as stymied. I

1:10:51

mean, there are a lot of cases where I really

1:10:53

have no clue. This one,

1:10:56

75 theories, all

1:10:58

of which we didn't talk about, obviously,

1:11:01

but even the theories

1:11:03

that are most plausible, they

1:11:05

seem to have serious holes in them. I'm

1:11:08

just trying to figure out how they got to 75. Well,

1:11:11

the one guy said that most of

1:11:14

them involved the government conspiracy. So there

1:11:16

are probably just different angles of

1:11:19

a government conspiracy. There might have been 60

1:11:21

of them. But

1:11:24

I mean, it was a tragedy.

1:11:27

What happened? Nine people lost their

1:11:29

lives. The one thing I will

1:11:31

say is that I think it will continue to

1:11:34

fascinate people because of

1:11:36

the circumstances around their deaths. Yeah,

1:11:39

I don't think we're ever really going to know.

1:11:42

No, unless that secret base is

1:11:44

uncovered, or my time travel

1:11:46

machine finally works. I go

1:11:48

back and warn them, warn them, and

1:11:50

come back and tell you guys. But then you

1:11:53

still wouldn't know what happened

1:11:55

because you've warned them,

1:11:57

thereby altering history. that's

1:12:00

a certain watch it happen. Yeah. And that

1:12:02

would just be cruel. Yeah. And that probably

1:12:04

my time machine anyway. And you would die

1:12:06

as well because it'd be like negative 30

1:12:09

and you time traveled in your Tommy Bahamas.

1:12:12

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I have to rethink this

1:12:14

whole process. But anyway, that

1:12:16

is it for our episode on

1:12:18

the Dyatlov pass. Just

1:12:20

what a mystery. Oh, it's what

1:12:22

an absolute mystery. You know, I often subscribe

1:12:24

to that theory that the obvious

1:12:27

answer is most often

1:12:29

correct. And I think if

1:12:31

you were thinking about the obvious answer, it

1:12:33

has something to do with nature,

1:12:36

right? Snow, avalanche, slab,

1:12:38

avalanche, whatever you want to

1:12:40

call it. That probably

1:12:43

is along the lines of the

1:12:45

most obvious answer. But again,

1:12:47

there are just a lot of holes in that one.

1:12:50

And the fact that no one's really come

1:12:52

out definitively and say, this is

1:12:54

it until recently. They

1:12:57

also haven't come out definitively. Yeah, that

1:12:59

too. But how

1:13:01

can anybody come out definitively

1:13:03

and say anything? I don't think

1:13:05

they ever can. Number one, they

1:13:07

weren't there. Right. So all

1:13:10

people can do is try to

1:13:12

recreate the conditions or the,

1:13:15

the model of what that night

1:13:17

was like. I feel bad for their

1:13:19

families because they, they don't know. They don't know.

1:13:21

They have no idea what happened to their loved

1:13:23

ones. They just thought their loved ones were going

1:13:25

on this big time, adventurous

1:13:28

outing. And we're going to

1:13:30

come back with these amazing photos and

1:13:32

maybe some science data and

1:13:34

things like that to never see

1:13:36

or hear from them again. We've got some voicemails. You

1:13:39

want to check those out? Let's hear them. Hey,

1:13:42

Mike and Gibby, this is Pana

1:13:44

at consent. I just

1:13:46

finished listening to your Katie

1:13:48

Poyer case. And I'm

1:13:51

actually from near the area of

1:13:53

Moose Lake. I'm from Duluth, which

1:13:56

is not too far away.

1:13:58

And granted, I was probably. like seven

1:14:01

or eight when it happened, but

1:14:04

due to all the new laws

1:14:07

and stuff that concerns

1:14:09

what happened with he, ironically,

1:14:13

having worked at several gas

1:14:15

stations myself, sorry I'm

1:14:17

at work, there's a lot of noise

1:14:19

around me, they

1:14:21

actually implemented the rule of

1:14:24

not ever working alone partially

1:14:26

because of Katie and her

1:14:28

being kidnapped, abducted, however you

1:14:30

want to look at that.

1:14:34

And also I briefly worked

1:14:36

at the sex offender program

1:14:38

that's in Moose Lake.

1:14:41

I don't think it's actually too

1:14:43

far away from where she was

1:14:45

kidnapped. And yeah,

1:14:48

I just wanted to let you know

1:14:50

that that was a pretty terrifying

1:14:52

case. I don't really remember a whole lot

1:14:55

of it, but I

1:14:57

do know that we discussed it

1:15:00

when I started working at the

1:15:02

quick trip near my

1:15:05

house. So just thought you'd like to

1:15:07

know that and I can't remember what

1:15:10

else I was going to say. So thank you,

1:15:12

talk to you guys soon. Bye. Awesome.

1:15:15

Great voicemail from Tana. I think she recently

1:15:17

sent us some stuff in on the Moebak.

1:15:19

That's awesome. So we appreciate

1:15:21

that. And, you know, I think

1:15:24

I've mentioned it before, but I did manage

1:15:26

gas stations like in the nineties. And

1:15:28

for the most part, unless

1:15:31

I was at a specific

1:15:33

station, there was one person

1:15:35

working. Yeah. Overnight,

1:15:38

there was always one person working. It

1:15:40

would have been hard to have been profitable, having

1:15:44

two people on every shift.

1:15:46

Now, it seems like a lot of

1:15:48

the gas stations are bigger nowadays. They

1:15:51

have got more food, so there's

1:15:53

more people needed to kind

1:15:56

of do certain things. Yeah, that's true. But

1:15:58

some of it could be for safety. as

1:16:00

well. That's when you were known as the gas man. One of

1:16:02

the reasons. Hey

1:16:05

Mike and Gizzy. My name is Caroline.

1:16:08

I'm from O'Hanks, California. I was

1:16:10

just calling because I was

1:16:12

just listening to your podcast

1:16:14

right now on the Bradley-Murdock

1:16:16

case and I heard

1:16:19

you guys bring up something

1:16:21

about 20 pounds a week.

1:16:24

Yes, that is a lot

1:16:26

because usually lead

1:16:28

goes by grams and

1:16:32

from grams it goes up to ounces. So

1:16:36

like say you get half

1:16:41

an ounce. Usually a small little

1:16:43

bag depends. You can put it

1:16:45

in a little container, like

1:16:47

a half size container or if you

1:16:50

get a whole ounce, that's a whole,

1:16:53

like, small, a decent size

1:16:55

container, probably like maybe a

1:16:58

whole ounce is about 28 G's. Yeah, so half an

1:17:04

ounce is about 14 G's. So

1:17:07

20 pounds, oh gosh, that's

1:17:10

a lot. I don't

1:17:12

know exactly how many grams that is. I

1:17:14

can't tell you and I can tell you

1:17:16

it is a lot of money because with

1:17:19

pounds you have to put it into bags for that.

1:17:22

So yeah, it's a lot of money and it's a

1:17:24

lot of weed. But I just want to wish

1:17:27

you guys well. Love you guys'

1:17:29

podcasts. Keep your guys'

1:17:31

time ticking. Have a great one. All

1:17:33

right, so we learned a lot about

1:17:36

weed right there. Yeah, things have changed

1:17:38

from the old nickel dime bag and

1:17:40

quarter bag, you know, balance into grams

1:17:43

and pounds and oh, I don't know

1:17:45

what you're talking about. I

1:17:49

do know that there are 16 ounces in

1:17:51

a pound. I do know that. Yeah. So

1:17:53

when she's saying half an

1:17:55

ounce is like, what, like a

1:17:58

bag, a little baggie or something. Yeah,

1:18:00

either way, 20 pounds is a boatload of weed.

1:18:03

That's a couple of backpacks for weed. Yeah. Well,

1:18:06

it's like, it's like two very big twin

1:18:08

babies. Yeah. If you figure if you had two

1:18:10

10 pound twins,

1:18:13

that's how much weed you're carrying around. A lot

1:18:15

of weed, man. That's a lot. It's a pretty

1:18:17

healthy supply. Yeah. But

1:18:19

you know, our listeners, they know

1:18:21

a lot of different things and

1:18:24

they school us. And they just schooled

1:18:26

us. They did. Thank you. All right.

1:18:28

So appreciate the voicemails. That is it

1:18:30

for another episode of true crime all

1:18:32

the time unsolved. So for Mike and

1:18:34

Gabby, stay safe and keep your own

1:18:36

time ticking. Yeah.

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