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1:05

Supposedly

1:27

Pablo Escobar went looking for other

1:29

spots, quiet, out of the way places to bring

1:31

in his cocaine.

1:35

My name is Joshua Davis, and I'm

1:37

an investigative reporter. Kyle

1:40

and I talk all the time about the strange things we come

1:42

across, but nothing was quite as strange

1:44

as what we found in Varnamtown, North

1:46

Carolina. There's crooked cops,

1:49

brother against brother, everyone's got

1:51

a story to tell, but does the truth even

1:53

exist? Welcome to

1:55

Varnamtown. Varnamtown

1:58

is available wherever you listen to podcasting.

2:37

Hello everyone and welcome. Deps of 338

2:39

of the True Crime All

2:41

the Time Unsolved podcast. I'm Mike

2:43

Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in

2:45

True Crime, Mike Gibson. Give me, how

2:47

are you? Hey, I'm doing okay, man. How about you? I'm

2:50

doing well. Yeah. Had a good week. Got

2:52

to see my daughters, take them to lunch

2:54

at college this week. So that was really cool. That

2:57

is awesome. Hey, let's go ahead and give

2:59

our Patreon shout outs. We had Marsh.

3:02

What's up Marsh? Corey Thompson. Hey Corey.

3:04

Jason Workman jumped out to our highest level.

3:06

Well, thank you, Jason. Laurie. What's going on

3:09

Laurie? Tristan McCarthy. Hey

3:11

Tristan. Charles Jewell. Well,

3:13

I appreciate that Charles. Jen. There's

3:15

Jen. Berlin, Jim. Ah, Hey

3:17

Berlin. Emma's irony. Well,

3:19

I thank you irony. Joseph

3:21

Miller. What's up Miller? EJ Holiday.

3:24

Hey, EJ. Becca Holiday. What's going

3:26

on Becca? Darby. Hey Darby. And

3:28

last but not least, Emma Kales.

3:31

Thank you so much, Emma. And then if we go back into

3:33

the vault, this week

3:35

we selected Sarah Stryger.

3:38

Well, thanks Sarah for hanging in there with us. Yeah,

3:40

we appreciate the new support to continued

3:43

support. Gibbs right now we have

3:45

an episode out on TCAT. It's

3:48

on Blake Liebell. This

3:50

was a aspiring

3:52

director, son of multi-millionaires

3:55

who was arrested for murdering

3:57

his girlfriend who had just given. birth

4:00

to their daughter. And this was

4:02

a very, very brutal

4:05

murder. Torture.

4:07

It was very sickening. Yeah. Yeah. Very

4:09

graphic. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get

4:11

into this episode of True Crime All the Time

4:13

Unsolved? I am ready. We're talking

4:16

about the Houston Lovers Lane

4:18

murders on the night of August

4:20

22nd, 1990. A

4:23

young couple named Cheryl Henry

4:25

and Andy Atkinson parked

4:27

at a remote Lovers Lane in Houston,

4:29

Texas. Andy's abandoned car

4:32

was found the next day, and their bodies

4:34

were found soon after. Cheryl

4:36

and Andy were tied up and their

4:38

throats were cut. Cheryl was raped

4:41

by her killer. Over 30 years

4:43

later, the killer remains unidentified,

4:46

despite the DNA being connected

4:48

to a rape case that occurred the

4:50

same year as the murders.

4:52

So growing up, I used to love

4:55

Lovers Lane kind of areas, the secluded

4:57

areas. I mean, I had brothers

5:00

in my house and my mom and dad,

5:02

so it wasn't like you could go back there to

5:05

be with your girlfriend. You know, you had to go find

5:07

a little secluded spot somewhere. Okay.

5:09

Yeah. I thought that was going in a weird direction

5:11

there when you brought your brothers into it

5:14

and all that. I just

5:16

don't remember, to be

5:18

completely honest with you, there

5:21

being any type of Lovers

5:23

Lane areas around

5:26

where I grew up. I just don't remember that.

5:28

Yeah. We definitely would find places to park.

5:31

Yeah.

5:31

I could say that that did occur.

5:34

I just wouldn't have called them Lovers

5:37

Lane areas. Like

5:39

I think about,

5:41

you know, in the Zodiac case

5:43

or the 40s and the 50s and the

5:46

60s and things like that.

5:48

But no doubt, this was a very brutal

5:51

double murder. Cheryl was raped.

5:53

I think, you know, what fascinates

5:56

a lot of people about this case is

5:58

the fact that There

6:00

is the end

6:01

and that it's been connected to

6:03

another cake yeah so

6:06

we'll get into all of that Cheryl

6:08

Lynn Henry was born on October twenty

6:10

fourth nineteen sixty seven in

6:12

florida. Garland andrew ackinson

6:15

went by the nickname andy was

6:17

born on september sixth nineteen

6:20

sixty eight in north carolina. Both

6:22

Cheryl and andy were college students who

6:25

had recently started dating in the summer

6:27

of nineteen ninety at the time. Cheryl

6:29

was twenty two and andy was

6:32

twenty one really not that much older than i

6:34

was back then oh you mean in the summer

6:36

of nineteen ninety yeah yeah not

6:38

much older than that i was

6:41

either. Cheryl met andy while

6:43

she was home for the summer from her classes

6:46

at steven f austin state university

6:48

andy had moved to houston from north

6:50

carolina. He graduated from campbell

6:53

university and wanted to be closer

6:55

to his dad's family andy was

6:57

an aspiring model much like

7:00

yourself back then and sometimes

7:02

still today sometimes. But

7:05

he got a job at a local gold's gym and

7:07

moved in with his grandmother in myrrhythm.

7:10

Yeah i worked at my local gym when i

7:13

was a young holiday health spa.

7:15

That was called what they're called that

7:18

does not sound like a gold's

7:20

gym that sounds like some

7:22

place you go to get pampered that

7:24

sounds like where my wife goes on the weekend

7:27

to get her nails that's what that's

7:29

where i was and so memberships

7:31

at the holiday health spa. Cheryl

7:33

worked at houston strip club called

7:36

rick's cabaret according to the houston

7:38

chronicle the chronicle didn't

7:40

specify her particular role

7:43

at the club. The chronicle also reported

7:45

that andy worked the door at a club

7:47

called dream street which was

7:49

managed by his father garland

7:52

at kens. So yes you worked

7:54

at a strip club she could have been a dancer

7:56

but you could have been a waitress as well who

7:59

knows. Does it matter? It does

8:01

not. Andy and Cheryl had

8:03

only known each other for about two weeks.

8:06

So, I mean, Gibbs, their relationship

8:08

was very short. But sources

8:11

indicate they had strong feelings for

8:13

each other. And, you know, every

8:16

relationship is different. You

8:18

know, some people develop very

8:21

strong feelings extremely quickly.

8:24

Yeah, I think a lot of people run into that.

8:27

So, you know, there are feelings grow over

8:29

time, right? It

8:32

can happen different ways for different

8:34

people. Cheryl's stepsister,

8:36

Crystal Craig, told the Houston Chronicle

8:39

that Cheryl normally didn't get worked

8:41

up over boys. But

8:44

she was head over heels for Andy.

8:47

And, you know, that's pretty

8:48

telling.

8:49

Using that phrase, head

8:51

over heels.

8:52

Yeah, that's big time, man. Whether

8:56

you want to call it in love or

8:58

that's, you know, your eyes light

9:00

up when you see that person. That

9:03

person is all you're thinking about. That's kind

9:05

of what goes through my head when I hear the

9:07

head over heels phrase. Cheryl's

9:10

sister Meredith told KHOU11

9:13

in 2013. She

9:16

thought he was amazing inside now

9:18

and that he had a great smile. But

9:20

his mind was wonderful too.

9:23

That's important. To have a wonderful

9:25

mind. Yeah. I think it is. Now,

9:28

he must have been a pretty good looking guy. Sounds

9:30

like it. He was an aspiring

9:32

model. You know, he's working out

9:35

at Gold's Gym. He was a bouncer. So,

9:37

you know, he must have had some muscle time. But

9:40

more importantly, she was into him. And nobody

9:43

that I saw really mentioned the

9:46

physical aspects, right? Now,

9:49

maybe you could take that. He was amazing inside

9:51

and out. Maybe the out part is

9:54

that she thought he was, you know, a good

9:56

looking guy. But he had a great

9:58

smile. He had a great mind. On

10:00

the night of August 22nd, 1990,

10:03

Cheryl and Andy went out on a double date with

10:06

Cheryl's younger sister, Shane

10:08

Henry Blaine, and her date. His

10:10

name was not listed in any of the

10:12

sources. They met at a nightclub

10:15

called Bayou Mamas.

10:19

They had drinks together at the club. It

10:21

seemed like Cheryl and Andy were having a

10:23

great time. Shane told the Houston Chronicle,

10:26

I think I said, get a room. A couple

10:29

of times that night. It was sort

10:31

of during that exciting time of a new

10:33

relationship. Oh man, we've all been around people

10:35

like that, right? And we've talked about that time

10:38

in a relationship in many episodes.

10:41

I mean, you know, for some people,

10:43

it can be all consuming. It's

10:46

new, it's fresh, it's exciting.

10:50

And so they must have been all over each

10:52

other for her sister to tell

10:54

them multiple times, get

10:56

a room. That's enough, guys. Come on. Yeah,

10:59

we're in a public play. Yeah. You know,

11:01

keep your hands to yourselves, something like that. Or

11:03

get a room where you can be alone. Shane

11:06

left the club around 11 30 p.m. She

11:09

told Cheryl she loved her and she left.

11:11

This was the last time she saw

11:13

her sister alive.

11:16

And I'm telling you, man, every time I say that

11:18

phrase, especially in an

11:20

unsolved case, it hits

11:22

me because I can't help

11:25

but think about that person.

11:27

You know, in this case, it's

11:29

a sister

11:30

who

11:31

leaves the bar. She's not thinking

11:33

that something is going to go

11:35

terribly wrong. She tells

11:37

her sister that she loves her, but I'm

11:40

sure there wasn't a thought in her mind that she wasn't

11:42

either going to see her the next day

11:44

or talk to her the next day, whether

11:47

it's a sister, a mom, whoever

11:49

it is. Those last words,

11:52

they have to haunt you. Do you think

11:54

you remember the last

11:57

conversation and analyze

11:59

it for years? to come. I think forever.

12:01

Yeah. I really do.

12:03

I don't think you ever forget about

12:06

it. My assumption, and

12:08

that's all I can do is assume because I've never

12:10

been in that position, would

12:12

be that you would replay it over

12:15

and over in your mind. Because who's

12:18

probably not going to think about their

12:21

loved one every day for the rest of their

12:23

life because they still don't know

12:25

what happened exactly, who's

12:27

responsible. That's why we're doing it on Unsolved.

12:31

True. Cheryl and Andy

12:33

left the club and drove to a remote

12:35

lovers lane in West Houston

12:38

off Enclave Parkway near

12:40

Eldridge Parkway. The Houston Chronicle

12:43

described it as an undeveloped

12:46

wooded area of Western Harris County

12:48

where young people often

12:50

went to park in kids. I'm

12:53

sure they might have done a little bit more than that,

12:55

but they probably didn't want to write that in the paper.

12:57

Probably not, but kids

12:59

got to go somewhere. That's what we always did. We

13:02

found that spot. But I'm

13:04

sure where you grew up, because it

13:06

was a little more rural, I

13:08

think, than where I grew up, there were probably

13:11

a lot of undeveloped wooded areas

13:14

which you could sneak off to. There

13:16

was some gravel driveways or

13:19

roadways. I don't want to make

13:21

you out to be a Lothario

13:23

or anything like that, but you

13:26

know what? I might be a little offended if I knew

13:28

what that word meant. Yeah, we

13:31

can talk about it later. It's not bad,

13:33

though. KHOU reported

13:35

that today, Enclave

13:37

Parkway is a well-developed

13:40

business corridor. Mid-rise buildings

13:42

and a parking garage now sit in the spot

13:44

where the couple parked. Cheryl

13:47

didn't come home that night,

13:48

and neither did Andy.

13:50

Her family was worried about her, so

13:52

they reported her missing on August 23,

13:54

1990. Later that day, a Cisco Food Security Guard

14:00

patrolling the area found Andy's

14:02

white Honda Civic abandoned

14:05

in an isolated cul-de-sac in

14:07

the 1300 block of Enclave

14:10

Round, which was part of an undeveloped

14:12

business park. He noticed that

14:14

the key was still in the ignition,

14:17

the seats were reclined, and

14:19

a cassette tape was still in the deck. Cheryl's

14:22

shoes and purse were found on the floorboard.

14:25

What was most concerning was the fact

14:27

that the security guard saw

14:30

what looked like fresh blood

14:32

in the car. So a lot of red flags going

14:34

off. Yeah, I mean, first and foremost,

14:36

I think fresh blood. If

14:39

that really is what you're seeing, that's

14:41

very concerning. The second

14:43

thing that would go through my mind is who

14:45

just walks off and leaves their car

14:48

with the keys in the ignition.

14:50

I get it, sometimes you have

14:52

car trouble

14:53

and you might have to walk

14:55

home or walk somewhere,

14:57

but

14:58

you would take your keys with you.

15:01

The guard called the police to report

15:03

the discovery. The police did a computer

15:06

check of the license plate and saw

15:08

that it belonged to a missing person.

15:11

Cheryl's family was informed that the car

15:13

had been found. Her mother Barbara

15:15

and some other family members rushed to the area

15:18

and they actually got there before the police

15:21

did. It looked like Cheryl and Andy

15:23

had been relaxing in the car and

15:25

listening to music when they abandoned

15:28

it for unknown reasons. Like

15:30

we said, right, the blood was especially

15:33

worrying, but so was the fact

15:35

that Cheryl left her shoes and purse

15:37

behind. Do you think it's strange that the family

15:39

got there before the police? I didn't think

15:42

it was a little strange just because

15:45

you would think by the time they

15:47

notified the family,

15:50

they would have already been out there and

15:52

secured the crime scene. It seems like

15:55

you would want to do that first and foremost

15:57

if the authorities arrived

15:59

in in patrol cars, helicopters,

16:02

and on horseback, cadaver dogs

16:04

searched the area, along with officers

16:06

on foot. Just before midnight on

16:09

August 23rd, a cadaver dog

16:11

led the police to Cheryl's body, which

16:13

was found about 200 yards away from Andy's car. And

16:18

it was reported Gibbs that the police

16:20

had to hold Barbara back when Cheryl was

16:22

found so that she wouldn't see

16:24

the violent crime scene. And

16:27

I completely understand that. You

16:29

know, if you're the family and you find

16:31

out that that's your daughter, what would be

16:33

your first instinct? Oh, I'd want

16:35

to break all barriers down and

16:38

get to her as quick as I can. You just

16:40

want to get over there and maybe

16:42

hold her or, you know, see

16:44

her, whatever. But it's

16:47

a crime scene. And

16:49

this was a very violent murder. Yeah. I'm

16:52

thinking of that movie with Sean Penn. Mystic

16:55

River? When he's in the movie

16:57

knows, he knows it's his daughter

16:59

all of a sudden and him and his

17:01

bodyguards are like plowing

17:04

through whoever they can to get over there. And

17:06

all the police have to grab

17:08

them. Try to hold them back. Investigators

17:11

discovered that the killer had arranged

17:13

Andy's golf balls and golf club,

17:16

which he stored in his trunk to create

17:18

a line leading to Cheryl's

17:21

body.

17:22

Okay. What do you make of that?

17:24

It's kind of

17:25

disturbing in a

17:27

weird way. Yeah. A couple

17:29

of thoughts that kind of ran through my head, which was number

17:32

one, why move the body

17:34

and hide it in the woods 200 yards

17:37

away and then leave a

17:39

kind of a sign or

17:42

something. Yeah. To lead

17:44

authorities to find it. If you

17:47

wanted it found, why not just

17:49

leave it in the car or leave it next

17:51

to the car? But if you think about it,

17:53

did

17:54

the police find the body because of this?

17:57

I don't think so because they were looking for a while.

18:00

This is probably something that you didn't really clean

18:02

on until after you find the body you

18:04

like oh yeah

18:06

oh i see what this is you

18:09

know right together it was

18:11

the cadaver dogs right that led

18:13

them to the body. I don't know

18:15

what they made of the golf club

18:18

in the golf balls but i'm sure they didn't

18:20

look at it and say. All this

18:22

is a sign from the killer yeah so

18:24

we go this direction will find

18:26

the body so in that vein. Does

18:29

that mean that the killer was

18:32

maybe taunting police knowing

18:35

that they would only figure it out

18:38

after they they found the body in

18:40

some other way. Or did the killer

18:43

do that

18:43

so when they came back

18:46

later they

18:46

would they wanted to come back later they could find the

18:48

body much easier they would remember exactly

18:51

what was yeah it's kind of one of those

18:53

mysterious. What's

18:55

the case she was found face

18:57

down and partially hidden under a pile

19:00

of old cedar fence last. She

19:02

was naked her clothing which

19:05

had been cut from her body was found nearby

19:07

her hands were bound behind her back

19:10

with rope and she was cut three times

19:13

on her throat. Cheryl had also been raped

19:15

and DNA evidence was collected

19:18

from her body the golf

19:20

balls and golf club were not the only

19:22

unusual evidence found at the scene.

19:25

Investigators found four partially

19:28

deflated balloons tied to a tree

19:31

above Cheryl's body and a new

19:33

twenty dollar bill next to her body

19:36

they didn't know if the killer had left these behind

19:39

and if so what did it mean. Would

19:42

be kind of bizarre right the balloons unless again

19:44

it was some type of marking like

19:47

okay fall the golf club and golf

19:49

balls get to that spot look

19:51

up for the deflated balloons and below

19:54

that. Underneath the cedar planks

19:56

you're gonna find the body nobody

19:58

we do know killer. come back oftentimes

20:03

to the scene of the

20:05

crime or where they have left the

20:07

body. Sometimes they do

20:10

unspeakable things to

20:12

the body later on, but

20:15

you don't need a new $20

20:17

bill

20:18

to help you in any way

20:20

find the body.

20:22

So

20:23

did the killer throw

20:25

down a $20 bill next to her body? And

20:28

if so, for what? Yeah, why?

20:30

You know, is it to

20:32

say, and this is

20:35

going to sound terrible, but I'm trying

20:37

to figure out what was in this person's mind.

20:40

This is what I thought she was worth,

20:42

or

20:43

this is how little I thought of her. You

20:45

know what I'm saying? Putting a monetary

20:48

value on her life, maybe

20:50

something like that. Maybe I'm just

20:53

randomly thinking here. Maybe

20:55

he was angry with her. Maybe she was

20:58

a stripper

20:58

and maybe

21:00

she turned away advances.

21:02

And the $20 was like a message

21:04

to her, even though it was after death.

21:09

Yeah, you didn't want my money at the club. Okay. I

21:12

see where you're going to make you take the money now. And

21:14

again, we're speculating, but I mean, what else can

21:16

you do in some of these unsolved cases, but

21:18

talk about what things could

21:21

possibly mean. The search for

21:23

Andy was called off because it was dark,

21:25

but search teams returned in the

21:27

morning, Andy's body was found

21:29

after about 10 hours of

21:31

searching.

21:32

He was tied up to a tree about 75

21:35

yards away from Cheryl. His

21:38

throat was cut so deeply that

21:40

he was nearly decapitated.

21:42

According to KHOU 11. So

21:46

this had to be a pretty dense area, right? I mean,

21:48

cause they were there the day before and he

21:51

was only 75 yards away. They

21:53

never found him then.

21:55

So I'm guessing this had to be a pretty dense area,

21:57

but I'm also thinking we know this

21:59

guy. worked out, he was in

22:01

decent shape for

22:03

someone to get the better of him, to

22:05

tie him up around the tree. What

22:07

does that say about the suspect? It says to

22:09

me that he most likely had a gun.

22:13

That's what it says to me because

22:16

my thought is that Andy

22:18

probably would have put up a fight if

22:21

it was just hand-to-hand

22:23

combat. But when somebody

22:26

has a gun and they're

22:28

pointing it at you or your girlfriend

22:30

or they're pointing it at Cheryl

22:33

and saying, hey, if you don't do

22:35

what I tell you, I'm going to shoot

22:38

one or both of you, he

22:41

might have allowed himself

22:43

to be tied to a tree so that the

22:46

killer didn't shoot her. That's entirely

22:49

possible. Andy still had

22:51

his clothing on and he still had his watch

22:53

and money

22:54

on him.

22:55

So I think this clearly

22:57

indicated to police

22:59

that these murders weren't

23:01

about robbery. The

23:03

killer had been after the victims,

23:06

not their possession. Detectives

23:08

told Andy's father they believed Cheryl

23:11

was killed first. Garland Atkinson

23:13

told KHOU what investigators

23:16

told him. They surmised that Andy

23:18

let them tie him to a tree and

23:21

they know that the girl was killed first, which

23:23

means he was tied to a tree

23:26

and listened to her scream, listened

23:28

to her being murdered, knowing

23:30

that they were going to do the same thing to

23:32

him and he couldn't do anything

23:35

about it. That's hard to accept.

23:38

I don't know how you live with it.

23:40

A child being murdered

23:42

is horrible,

23:43

but then these details that come

23:46

out that go along with it, the

23:48

fact that he most likely

23:50

had to listen to

23:52

her being murdered while being tied

23:54

to this tree, knowing that

23:57

he was going to be killed as well. And

24:00

how horrified was he? Oh, yeah,

24:02

be terrified and you know when

24:04

parents hear these facts coming out from

24:06

the investigation I I

24:09

know you want to know kind of need to know but

24:11

then you wish you never knew

24:13

Yeah, I get that 100% I

24:16

don't think you can live with the not knowing

24:18

but then you have to learn to live with the

24:20

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I dot-com Houston

25:27

detective Billy Belk now retired

25:30

was one of the original investigators

25:33

because DNA testing was so new at

25:35

the time Detective Belk had

25:37

to get permission from the Houston Police Department To

25:40

have the DNA lab at Baylor College

25:42

of Medicine process the DNA sample

25:45

taken from Cheryl's body This

25:47

sample was entered into the

25:49

CODIS national database and

25:52

we are talking about 1990 here is

25:54

like infant stages, right? Yeah.

25:56

I mean it was first used in what 85

26:00

So, even by 90, they were not

26:03

advanced all that much

26:05

in the way of

26:06

DNA.

26:07

In September 1990, a $10,000 reward was offered for information leading to

26:09

the arrest and indictment

26:15

of the killer. Andy's father said,

26:17

as quoted by the Odessa American, there

26:20

is no reason for anyone, young or old,

26:22

to be brutalized the way these two kids

26:25

were. I won't be satisfied until

26:27

someone is apprehended. As

26:29

you can imagine, the city was shocked by

26:31

the gruesome murders and wondered what

26:34

kind of person would target the young,

26:36

happy couple. Investigators

26:38

tried to follow up on all possible leads, but

26:41

months and years passed with no answers.

26:44

And it's extremely sad, but

26:46

it's very common in these unsolved

26:49

cases. And really, the next

26:51

big development in the case occurred 11

26:53

years later. In 2001,

26:56

an individual sent a letter to the Houston

26:59

Police Department promising information

27:02

in exchange for $100,000. Really?

27:06

I know what happened, and I'll tell it

27:08

to you, but I won $100,000. So

27:15

we're not talking about a good

27:17

citizen here, right? This person

27:19

is not coming forward to

27:21

help out the

27:24

investigation out of the

27:26

goodness of their heart.

27:28

They're looking to get paid.

27:29

So what does that mean?

27:31

Either they're

27:32

trying to scam money,

27:35

or they're

27:37

ultimately involved

27:40

in the murder in some way. Yeah,

27:42

personally, no, the individual,

27:45

and this is their way of, if I

27:47

tell you I need to start a new life,

27:49

but this is my start my new life money.

27:52

The risk reward, right? There's

27:54

really no reason for me to come forward voluntarily,

27:58

but if you give me $100,000, I'll

28:00

risk it." This letter wasn't

28:02

made public until 2004. The

28:05

sender demanded money and asked the police

28:08

to respond via the Houston Chronicle's

28:11

personal column. The writer also

28:13

warned they would hire a lawyer

28:15

to protect themselves. The letter was

28:18

addressed to the HPD Homicide

28:20

Division. In the spot for the return

28:23

address, the sender wrote, Cheryl

28:26

Henry, Andy Atkinson.

28:29

The letter reads as follows,

28:30

HPD,

28:32

if you want to know who killed C.

28:34

Henry plus A. Atkinson,

28:38

it will cost you $100,000. Reply

28:41

Houston Chronicle Personal Column, Monday, 31201

28:44

only. A

28:46

lawyer will be hired to make sure you

28:49

play straight. And it was signed

28:51

anonymous. The handwritten note

28:53

was postmarked March 1, 2001. The

28:57

police received it early that month. And

28:59

I'll be honest with you, I got a little

29:02

bit of Zodiac

29:04

vibes from that.

29:06

Yeah, I did too.

29:08

Now this person's not sending a puzzle

29:11

to be unscrambled or a code

29:13

to be deciphered, but

29:16

Zodiac did

29:17

do some things, I think, you know,

29:20

reply through the personal columns, things

29:22

like that. But I don't know. Maybe

29:25

it's just cause anytime somebody sends a letter

29:28

like this to the police or a newspaper,

29:31

it gives me some Zodiac

29:33

vibes. But you can say love or lame, type

29:35

of killing. Well, that's true too. You

29:38

know, this letter, is it kind of a copycat?

29:40

Well, that's a great point. By

29:43

publicizing it, the police did respond

29:46

in the Houston Chronicles Classified

29:48

section. Their ad read, we

29:51

do want to know what you know

29:53

about Henry Atkinson. They

29:56

also provided a phone number so that the

29:58

sender or a lawyer could could contact

30:00

them with directions on playing

30:02

straight. Detective Bell told

30:05

the Houston Chronicle that over the years they

30:07

had received calls about the case, especially

30:09

around the anniversary or whenever

30:12

new articles were released, but he

30:14

thought the timing of the letter was odd. And

30:17

you would have to say it is pretty

30:19

odd, right? It was sent over 10 years

30:22

after the murders during a period

30:25

when the case wasn't really getting any

30:27

publicity at all. The most recent

30:30

story had been published

30:32

a couple of weeks after the 10 year anniversary

30:35

on September 30th, 2000. So

30:38

why all of a sudden does this individual decide

30:41

to send a letter? It

30:43

does seem like such strange

30:45

timing. 10 years have gone

30:47

by. You would have thought that

30:50

if this person had information,

30:53

thought they could get money, they would have tried

30:55

to get it sooner, but you can

30:57

understand why the Houston police were

31:00

interested in the note, right? They were

31:02

at a dead end in the case, but

31:04

they chose not to publicize it to

31:07

see if they got a response to their classified

31:09

ad. No one ever contacted

31:12

them regarding the note and the Houston

31:14

police believe whoever sent the note

31:17

does not intend to reach out

31:19

to them. So

31:20

just toying with them?

31:21

Well, what else could

31:23

it be? Either it was a hoax

31:26

and you were just playing around with

31:28

the police or you really did

31:31

know something. And then

31:33

after you sent it, the idea

31:36

didn't seem so great because

31:39

you couldn't figure out how

31:41

you were not going to be known

31:45

how, you know, the police were going to figure out who it

31:47

was. Sure. We got to pay somebody.

31:50

So maybe they just thought about it and said, no, it's

31:52

just not going to work. So I'm not going to respond, but

31:55

I kind of lean towards the

31:57

first, the hoax.

32:00

Because

32:01

why wait 10 years will somebody probably

32:03

saw an article right about

32:05

the 10 year anniversary and thought, no

32:08

i'll either play with police or maybe

32:11

i'll just take it and see how far

32:13

go so i can do with this maybe they'll they'll

32:15

do a drop of money somewhere

32:17

and i'll get a hundred thousand i mean there is

32:20

a small chance that maybe.

32:22

This person knew the person that did this maybe

32:26

maybe they died i thought that as well

32:28

as to the reason why they waited the 10

32:31

years maybe they waited until the

32:33

person died but then you know

32:35

why not follow up on exactly.

32:37

If you really could get a hundred thousand dollars

32:40

and you weren't the murderer

32:42

and you could get a lawyer to work

32:44

out the details to where you wouldn't be charged with

32:47

anything. Maybe they found out that

32:49

wasn't possible or maybe it was

32:51

the murderer that was going

32:53

to die soon and said you know if i

32:55

can get some money from my family

32:58

i'll do this and maybe during

33:00

the period of time waiting for the

33:02

police to respond

33:04

that person expired.

33:05

Maybe

33:06

i mean you can come up all this sure bizarre

33:09

scenario is a lot of different avenues

33:12

to consider. They chose to

33:14

release the note in two thousand four in

33:17

hopes that someone would read it and recognize

33:19

the handwriting the language used

33:22

or other information from the no. Detective

33:25

belk could be

33:27

a hoax but question what kind

33:29

of reward the writer would get

33:31

from sending emphasize to the houston

33:33

chronicle that they followed up on

33:36

any and all leave. Why always

33:39

have that same question what reward

33:42

do some of these people get out of making

33:45

crank phone calls to the

33:48

families of victim

33:50

sending letters to the authorities or

33:53

newspapers if they're not to

33:55

kill. I don't know the answer

33:57

i don't either some real.

34:00

some sick jollies that

34:02

they get? I mean, in some cases they're

34:05

derailing the investigation. Sure.

34:07

Other times they're just bringing more

34:09

heartache to the family members. Well,

34:12

I would argue that probably in all cases

34:14

they're doing that last part. Yeah. Because

34:18

you're giving, whether they

34:20

believe it or not, some false

34:23

sense of hope. In the first month

34:25

of the investigation, the police identified

34:28

several potential suspects, but

34:30

they were all eliminated through DNA testing.

34:33

However, the Houston Chronicle reported

34:36

that the Houston PD DNA

34:38

lab experienced several problems

34:40

in 2002, which led to the closure of the lab. Hundreds

34:45

of samples were then retested. Yeah.

34:48

You hate to hear that, right?

34:49

That the first round may

34:52

have not went the way it should have. Yeah.

34:54

You don't, you don't like to hear that. I also

34:56

wonder because

34:59

it was still a fairly

35:01

new technology. How good

35:03

was the testing? How good, you

35:05

know, were the samples derived? I,

35:08

I don't know. I just wonder how

35:11

many cases went unsolved, even

35:13

with DNA, just because they, they

35:16

weren't great at it or they didn't

35:18

know. Someone didn't know what they

35:20

were doing

35:21

and they weren't doing it correctly.

35:22

Detective Belk told the Chronicle. He

35:24

was confident in the work done in the Lovers

35:27

Lane case because the DNA

35:29

was tested by Dr. C. Thomas

35:31

Kasky, a renowned researcher.

35:34

So I'm assuming that was in the retest.

35:37

The DNA sample was later sent to the

35:39

Texas Department of Public Safety for

35:42

comparison to Angel

35:45

Resendez, a convicted serial

35:48

killer, but his DNA wasn't a

35:50

match either. Resendez

35:52

was a Mexican born serial killer who utilized

35:55

the railroad system to seek farm work

35:58

in the Midwest and the South. He

36:00

committed murders across the country. It's

36:02

believed that he killed at least nine, but possibly

36:05

up to 23 people. The murders

36:08

involved beating shootings, rape,

36:10

and strangulations. Several cases

36:13

took place in Texas and some

36:15

of the victims were close in age to

36:17

Cheryl Henry and Andy Atkinson.

36:21

That guy was a real monster. Yeah, he was a monster.

36:23

And, but this is something that you see in a lot of

36:25

cases, right? You have a known

36:28

monster who was operating, let's

36:30

say, around the area

36:35

of your unsolved case. Well,

36:37

you definitely want to see if that DNA

36:40

is a match to that person.

36:42

He's a killer.

36:43

Is it out of the question that he could

36:45

have killed these two people? No, but

36:48

he wasn't a match.

36:49

He was arrested in July, 1999 in El Paso, Texas. He

36:54

was executed in June, 2006. Investigators

36:57

likely wanted to compare his DNA

36:59

to the DNA from the crime scene because he

37:02

traveled so often and he killed

37:04

people in Texas, he was violent

37:06

with women and Cheryl Henry

37:09

was murdered in an especially

37:12

violent manner. In November, 2004,

37:15

detective Billy Belk and some of Cheryl's

37:17

family met with Houston police chief Harold

37:20

Hurt. Hurt approved independent

37:22

retesting of all DNA samples

37:24

taken from possible suspects

37:27

who were originally eliminated by the

37:29

HPD lab. I think that's a good move.

37:32

Oh yeah, I think it's a great move because

37:35

even if you're talking about 2004, right,

37:37

advancements have been made. Yeah. DNA

37:40

testing has gotten better. Let's make

37:42

sure we didn't miss anything. In 2007 DNA

37:46

evidence from the semen found in Cheryl's

37:48

body matched DNA collected

37:51

in the unsolved rape of

37:53

a Houston exotic dancer.

37:56

So there's got to be some hope here. Well, I think

37:58

on the part of police.

38:00

and the family as well. Absolutely.

38:03

So we have a match, a

38:05

DNA match to the semen

38:08

found in Cheryl's body. Yeah. You

38:10

know the thought all along was

38:13

that most likely whoever left

38:15

that semen was the killer. I

38:18

can certainly see why that would be the prevailing theory.

38:20

A woman was raped in

38:22

June 1990, just two months

38:24

before the murders. She was interviewed

38:27

by the detectives working the

38:29

lovers lane case for many years.

38:31

She was 30 years old

38:33

when she was raped. At the time

38:35

of her interview she was 48 and

38:38

working as a realtor. This

38:40

connection led investigators to

38:42

consider the possibility that the

38:44

killer frequented or worked

38:47

at local strip clubs or nightclubs and

38:49

that perhaps he saw Cheryl and Andy

38:52

at Bayou Mamas and followed

38:54

them. The victim was working at Gigi's

38:57

nightclub in Houston. She left work

38:59

around 2 a.m. on June 20th 1990 and went

39:03

to her boyfriend's house in Northwest

39:05

Houston. Her boyfriend, a pilot

39:08

was traveling at that time. She ate dinner

39:10

alone in the living room. When she walked

39:13

upstairs towards the bedroom, a

39:15

man came out from the bedroom door holding

39:18

a long-barreled handgun

39:20

in his hand. He asked her where Randy, her boyfriend,

39:24

was. He claimed that Randy

39:26

owed him money. The man then

39:28

attacked her. He stole $250 from

39:31

her purse, found her hands with

39:33

duct tape, duct taped her eyes

39:36

and mouth, threw her on the bed

39:38

and put a bag or pillowcase over her

39:41

head. He cocked and uncocked

39:43

the gun repeatedly to

39:45

taunt her as he raped

39:48

her. He's already committing

39:52

an unspeakable act

39:55

but then taunting

39:57

this victim on top of it by a you

40:00

know acting or Playing

40:03

around with the gun as though he's going to

40:05

shoot her Detective Michael

40:07

Miller told the Houston Chronicle he

40:09

became very vulgar with her

40:11

while he was raping her and he told

40:14

her she wasn't very observant

40:16

that he had a military uniform which

40:19

was probably him trying to throw her off

40:21

the fact that he might have had a security

40:24

guard Uniform and I had to

40:26

chew on that one for a little bit.

40:29

Why would this man? Point

40:31

out that he was wearing a military

40:34

Uniform

40:35

if he was really in the military that would be

40:38

Idiotic. Yeah, but I think

40:40

maybe the detective was on to something here that

40:43

he probably realized she Seen

40:46

the uniform in detail or was

40:48

worried about it and thought okay I need

40:51

to feed her some information here and

40:53

if I can get her to believe it's a military

40:56

Uniform maybe she'll stick

40:58

with that

40:59

Maybe he was worried was gonna be too easy for the police to

41:01

find him if he worked for a local

41:03

Security guard company versus

41:06

working

41:07

with the government in the military. Yeah I

41:10

mean, I see a couple different scenarios

41:13

there, but I don't know at

41:15

first it really it was really strange He

41:17

then told her to lie on the floor and not

41:20

move saying he might be in the house for

41:22

five minutes or an hour He disconnected

41:25

her phone and put the receiver under

41:27

the mattress before he left Although

41:30

he was wearing a stocking over his head. She

41:32

was able to provide a detailed description

41:35

of the rapist She described him as

41:37

a white male late 20s

41:39

to mid 30s six feet tall

41:42

180 pounds black hair with an

41:45

olive complexion. He possibly

41:47

had a mustache He was wearing black

41:49

gloves a dark shirt and dark

41:51

pants, which was possibly

41:53

a uniform. He had a very forceful

41:57

military type stance thing

42:00

that kind of jumped out at me was black

42:03

gloves, a dark shirt and dark pants.

42:05

That does not scream

42:08

out

42:08

military uniform to me. No,

42:11

me neither.

42:12

Now, could it be a security

42:14

guard uniform? Possibly,

42:16

but it doesn't sound like,

42:19

it just sounds like a person who's wearing dark clothing.

42:21

Trying not to be detective. Trying not to

42:23

be, yeah. Doesn't want anybody to see

42:26

him

42:26

in the night. Sure.

42:28

So then maybe we go back

42:30

and the, Hey, I'm

42:32

wearing a military uniform was

42:35

just to put police on the trail

42:38

of looking into people solely

42:40

who were in the military. I don't

42:42

know. DNA was collected in her

42:45

case, but it wasn't tested

42:47

for 17 years. Yeah, that's

42:49

a long time. It

42:51

is a long time. And you and I

42:53

have talked in many episodes

42:56

about the backlog that exists,

42:58

you know, even today, how

43:01

expensive it is to test and kind

43:03

of what order they,

43:04

they go in, but

43:06

you hate to hear it. Just, you

43:09

know, for the mere fact that if

43:11

we could get to the point where, you know,

43:14

everything's being tested quicker,

43:16

obviously would help solve more cases.

43:19

Yeah. There's, there's no doubt about that.

43:23

The DNA connection to the lover's lane

43:25

case was not discovered until

43:27

the Harris County Sheriff's office sent a backlog

43:30

of unsolved rape kits to

43:32

be processed at the medical

43:34

examiner's office. The medical

43:37

examiner developed DNA profiles

43:39

and submitted them to CODIS. In

43:42

October, 2007, CODIS registered

43:44

a match with the rape kit from

43:46

June, 1990. The victim

43:49

was located in Galveston County

43:51

and re-interviewed.

43:53

Interestingly, she revealed that

43:55

she had worked for Andy Atkinson's

43:57

father

43:58

at one point.

43:59

interesting. Yeah, it's such a strange

44:02

connection. The police wondered

44:04

if perhaps the killer worked for

44:07

Garland Atkinson and that was

44:09

how he knew Andy and Cheryl or

44:11

if it was all just a coincidence.

44:14

And you know, my thought is could it be

44:17

a coincidence? Sure. Coincidences

44:19

happen, but I

44:21

don't know. It seems

44:23

too much

44:24

in this case to be a coincidence.

44:27

You know, we didn't talk about it, but I also

44:30

wondered how this person

44:33

knew her boyfriend's name. You

44:35

know, if you remember,

44:37

he asked her where he was, said

44:39

that he owed him money. Now, could

44:41

he have seen it on a phone bill? I mean, there

44:44

are a number of ways. Possibility.

44:46

But it does also make

44:48

you think that maybe he knew

44:52

more about her.

44:53

It wasn't just a

44:55

stranger like encounter. The

44:58

victim helped the Houston Police Department

45:00

create a sketch of what her attacker looked

45:03

like in 1990 and an

45:05

age progressed sketch in 2008. The

45:08

composite sketch of the suspect was

45:10

released to the public on May 16th, 2008. I

45:14

think it'd be really hard to give a description

45:16

of something that happened back then, but

45:18

it also could have been ingrained in her

45:20

mind. I think it would be. I

45:23

think if you went through that, such

45:25

a terrible ordeal,

45:28

that picture of the

45:30

person who did that to you, I think

45:32

it would be seared into your memory.

45:35

Now, what I think would be really

45:37

hard is for

45:39

people, what, 18 years later to

45:43

look at it and say, oh yeah, I know that person

45:46

because they are not, they may not remember, unless

45:49

it was a very, very good friend

45:51

or a boyfriend or something like that.

45:54

The DNA remains in the national database,

45:57

but there is still no match. In 2000, 13, the

46:00

victim did an interview with K H

46:03

O U 11. They kept her identity

46:05

private. She said she thought

46:07

the rape was possibly connected

46:10

to her experience with the local moving

46:12

company because one of the movers

46:15

threatened her life. And

46:17

that's an

46:18

interesting kind of tidbit

46:20

too.

46:21

And maybe that ties into how this

46:23

person knew what

46:25

her boyfriend's name was. Yeah, I

46:27

don't know. It's true. This DNA

46:30

connection was a significant

46:32

break in the case, but with no

46:34

match, the killer can be arrested

46:37

and charged. And it's something that you

46:39

and I talk about quite a bit, right? DNA

46:41

is amazing. The technology

46:44

is unbelievable. What it's done

46:46

over the last few years. Sure. It's

46:48

getting better every day. It

46:51

seems like, but the mere fact

46:53

alone that you have DNA

46:55

that you believe belongs

46:58

to the killer doesn't always solve

47:00

a case, right? If, if

47:02

you can't match it

47:04

in a database

47:05

or this person's DNA

47:08

profile is just nowhere

47:10

to be found, you're not going to get a hit. So

47:13

unless you get a viable suspect

47:15

and can match, you know, their DNA that

47:18

way, the DNA doesn't mean

47:20

a whole lot right now. Now

47:22

that could change, right? As technology

47:24

changes or

47:27

new information comes in. Yeah. Detective

47:30

Billy Belk now retired, told

47:32

KHOU11 about his theory

47:35

on what happened to Cheryl and Andy in 2013.

47:38

He said, sometimes I think

47:41

they were targeted. Cheryl was tied

47:43

up more than Andy was, even

47:46

though he was tied to a tree. She

47:48

put up a fight. Sometimes I

47:50

wonder if there are two or three. Suspect.

47:53

You know, and that could go back to your

47:56

earlier question. You know, this, this

47:58

was a guy who was. in pretty

48:00

good shape.

48:01

Right. Andy. And

48:03

could one person have carried this out?

48:06

Absolutely. If they had a gun,

48:08

that could have been the case. But

48:11

you could also see where it

48:13

could have been two or three people. Now

48:15

the issue there is they only

48:17

have DNA

48:20

from one person. But I think that alone

48:23

doesn't eliminate the fact

48:25

of there being more people involved.

48:27

Yeah, there definitely could be more.

48:29

He also added that DNA from at least 25 people had been

48:33

compared to the crime scene DNA, but

48:36

all the potential suspects had been

48:38

ruled out. So it's kind of what we talked about,

48:40

right? They're not getting matches in any

48:43

of the databases, but they

48:46

have compared the DNA

48:48

against at least 25 people

48:51

at this point back in 2013.

48:54

So these were persons of interest, potential

48:57

suspects, whatever they were, and they

48:59

just didn't match. That's a lot of leads though. KHOU11

49:03

reported on an FBI profile

49:05

that stated that the suspect

49:07

may have known one or both victims,

49:10

that he was close to their age and

49:12

that he had above average intelligence,

49:15

but was a low achiever. He may have

49:17

been interviewed by the police at one time.

49:20

The profile also noted that the

49:22

covering of Cheryl's body indicated

49:25

a prior personal relationship

49:27

and the suspect may not have

49:30

intentionally killed Andy. And

49:33

the covering of the body, it's something we didn't touch

49:36

on. We did mention

49:38

that she was covered, but we

49:40

didn't talk about the significance

49:43

of it. And it crops

49:46

up

49:46

in many cases.

49:48

And normally that is the first

49:50

thing that police kind of go

49:53

to. Why would a person cover the

49:55

body? Well,

49:57

it sometimes means that They

50:00

had a prior relationship

50:02

or they knew this person. In this

50:04

case, or maybe he was just trying to hide the body. I

50:06

mean, with Cedar planks and things like that, but

50:10

that alone, wouldn't that have been

50:12

enough? Also then why the

50:14

golf clubs, why the balloons, why

50:16

the, you know, the $20 bill,

50:18

but again, covering the body

50:21

doesn't always mean that you

50:23

cared for that person or you had a

50:26

prior relationship, but sometimes

50:28

it does. I mean, the problem with that profile

50:30

for me is the word may have,

50:33

may have. Well, but that's all they can do.

50:35

Yeah. Right. A profile is

50:38

the best estimation

50:40

of what they, you know, believe

50:43

this killer is like.

50:44

They can be certain, but they're

50:46

not that good. I just don't know if I'm walking away

50:49

knowing anything more than I didn't already think.

50:52

Well, I don't know that I often

50:54

look at or read an FBI profile

50:58

and think, Oh, I would have never thought

51:00

that because very often

51:03

it's kind of, I don't want

51:05

to say self evident, but

51:08

it's things that just make total

51:10

sense. The part that I wasn't

51:12

completely sure that I understood

51:15

is the suspect may not have

51:17

intentionally killed Andy. What

51:20

does that mean? That really

51:23

Cheryl was the target all

51:24

along.

51:26

And he was just in the way. Yeah.

51:27

I mean, you almost like collateral

51:29

damage or I hate to use that phrase,

51:32

but, or do they mean

51:34

that they meant to tie

51:36

him up, but only so that they

51:38

could do

51:40

what they wanted to do to Cheryl

51:42

and that's why he wasn't tied as tightly.

51:45

They thought maybe he would get loose

51:47

and, and live, but then they

51:50

sliced his neck so deeply

51:52

that he was nearly decapitated.

51:55

Yeah. So how was that

51:57

accidental? I just didn't

51:59

understand. that part. I'm thinking they were just

52:02

trying to say he was

52:03

at the wrong place at the wrong time

52:05

and not the target. Yes, if

52:08

that's what they're saying, okay,

52:10

maybe I get

52:12

that. In 2017, KHOU11

52:15

reported that investigators

52:17

were seeking to use familial DNA

52:19

to identify the killer, but as far

52:22

as the public knows, they have still not

52:24

gotten the match. And this is probably

52:27

their best option at

52:29

this point. Now, this was what, six

52:32

years ago that they reported

52:34

this. It is this familial

52:36

DNA, genetic genealogy

52:39

type stuff that has really

52:41

exploded over the last two or three years.

52:44

When you're unable to get a match

52:46

of the DNA itself and

52:49

any of the databases,

52:51

well then you go the route of trying to

52:53

identify family members,

52:56

the family tree, can

52:58

you get a match that way and then whittle

53:00

it down to the person

53:03

who actually matches that

53:05

DNA. And again,

53:06

we

53:07

don't know how much work they've

53:09

done on that. A lot of times it comes

53:12

down to resources, money,

53:14

time. It all

53:16

plays a factor. It all does. It really

53:19

does. I mean, in a vacuum,

53:21

if you could work on everything,

53:24

send every untested

53:27

sample

53:28

to be tested.

53:29

The police would be able to solve a lot of cases.

53:31

Oh, for sure.

53:32

Maybe one of these people that won the 1.8

53:35

billion

53:36

dollar lotteries can donate

53:38

some money to all these labs and get

53:41

some of these kits tested.

53:43

Yeah, and a lot of people have donated money

53:45

and it really is a good thing. Currently,

53:48

the Houston Police Department Cold Case

53:50

Squad is in charge of the Lovers Lane

53:53

case. The Cold Case Squad was established

53:55

in 2004 and works

53:57

on hundreds of unsolved cases.

54:00

If you have any information about the murders

54:02

of Cheryl Henry and Andy Atkinson,

54:05

you can contact the Houston Police Department

54:07

at 713-308-3618 or Crimestoppers at 713-222-TIPS. It's

54:17

been 33 years since Cheryl and Andy

54:20

were murdered. They were both young.

54:24

And as we often talk about when

54:26

we discuss victims, you know,

54:28

they had all the potential

54:30

in the world and they had their lives

54:33

ahead of them. We have no idea what they would have

54:35

gone on to do. What we do

54:38

know is that they spent

54:40

their final moments in fear and pain

54:43

at the hands of an unknown killer,

54:46

possibly more than one killer. According

54:48

to investigators, Andy was forced

54:51

to see or hear the rape and

54:53

murder of his girlfriend before

54:55

he was killed.

54:57

How difficult would that have to be? It's unimaginable.

55:01

Really, for me, all of the victims

55:03

that we've talked about

55:04

in this case,

55:06

that stuff is unimaginable. As

55:08

we've seen in other cases, a person

55:10

willing to commit such heinous crimes

55:13

will most likely do

55:15

it again. I think

55:17

this has led to fears that

55:19

the suspect in this case could

55:22

have raped or murdered more

55:24

people. And I think that's a

55:26

very real possibility. I'm

55:29

of the mindset that more

55:31

often than not, these type

55:33

of individuals who are able to carry

55:35

out what we talked about, that's

55:37

not a one-time thing. I

55:40

just wholeheartedly believe

55:42

that more often than not,

55:45

they're going to keep doing it. Yeah, that's something

55:47

they're going to repeat for sure. And

55:50

whether this person got away

55:52

with it, died at some

55:55

point,

55:56

moved, and committed

55:59

similar acts and was

56:02

never caught. Who knows, but

56:05

it's a rough one. No doubt about it.

56:07

But that's it for our episode on the Houston

56:10

lovers lane, unsolved murders.

56:12

We've got some voicemails Gibbs. You want to check those out?

56:15

Hey, Mike and Gibby. Um, I listen

56:17

to your show all the time and,

56:20

uh, I'm in Kansas and

56:22

I, uh, wanted to know

56:25

if you could possibly, um,

56:27

cover the Patricia Newsome

56:30

case. She was just recently identified

56:32

and she'd been missing since the early seventies,

56:35

I think last scene, uh, leaving

56:37

a boarding school, but there's doubts

56:40

about that. Anyway. Um, since

56:42

it's, uh, since she has been identified and

56:44

she was found, uh, found and gagged,

56:47

so it would be crime. Apparently

56:49

now they're sure. Another

56:51

case, I wrote you about this a while

56:54

back, but, um, there was a house

56:56

life missing from the early sixties.

56:59

Her name was Joan Rish R I S C

57:01

H. I believe it was October 28th, 1961 from

57:03

Lincoln, Massachusetts. There's

57:08

a lot out there on her case. Um,

57:10

there have even been a couple of two or three

57:12

books written on it. And there's one book that's

57:14

just kind of, uh, difficult

57:17

as police, uh, notes in it, but

57:19

it's difficult to read, but there's a second

57:21

book that came out. It's more thorough,

57:24

better written. And I believe the guy

57:27

actually does a good, uh, job

57:29

of maybe solving the case

57:32

in the book, but anyway, I just

57:34

wondered if you guys would ever consider,

57:36

especially um, covering the latest

57:39

Patricia Newsom and then Joan Rish. Thanks.

57:41

Bye.

57:42

All right. Yeah. Appreciate the voicemail. We'll definitely

57:44

look into both those. Sounds like the

57:47

second one for sure would have enough

57:49

information for an episode. Uh,

57:51

the Patricia Newsom we'd have to

57:54

dive into and see if there's enough yet out

57:56

there to, uh,

57:57

craft an entire episode.

58:00

Please like and subscribe, I love this podcast.

58:03

I was just finishing up True Crime

58:06

All the Time Unsolved and I was listening

58:08

to the episode about Brian

58:10

Klesha and I didn't even

58:12

realize that this came to happen in the town where

58:14

I lived and I actually lived two minutes

58:17

away

58:17

from where Brian Klesha lived

58:19

when he disappeared. I just drove by the

58:21

house and I was doing an Uber East delivery

58:24

and I

58:24

just can't even believe that something

58:27

like that happened and I didn't even hear about it on the

58:29

news when it did happen. But anyway,

58:31

like I said, look at podcasts, love

58:33

you guys, Team Gibby4L. All

58:36

right, love the voicemail, thank you so much.

58:39

We hear that all the time. Team Gibby? No,

58:42

we do hear Team Gibby a lot. No, what

58:44

I hear is people saying, you

58:47

know, this crime occurred where

58:49

I live and it's a small town

58:51

or it occurred very

58:53

close to me and I never heard about

58:56

it. And you know, for whatever reason,

58:58

maybe people don't watch the news a lot

59:00

or at that point in time they weren't watching

59:02

the news. Busy in their own lives. Busy

59:05

in their own lives, but it's strange

59:07

to people and I get it

59:09

when you drive by a house

59:12

or a store where some

59:15

horrific murder happened and

59:17

you're like, okay, this is like three miles

59:19

from my house. Yeah. That's a strange

59:22

feeling. It really is. Or I didn't

59:24

know it, but I drive by this place every day.

59:27

So, but we appreciate the voicemail.

59:29

That's it, buddy, for another episode

59:32

of True Crime All the Time Unsolved. So for Mike

59:34

and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time

59:36

ticking.

59:37

Thank

59:54

you.

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