0:34

Hello! Everyone and welcome to Episode Three Fifty

0:36

Seven of the True Crime All The Time

0:38

months old podcast on my Ferguson and with

0:41

me as always is my partner and true

0:43

Crime my Gibbs and give you how are

0:45

you am doing good about you I'm doing

0:47

pretty well. Done. Pretty well I

0:49

had that. Issue with my

0:51

wow cats let me down in the tournament. They

0:53

did but I'm I'm trying to. Take.

0:55

It in stride what happens when you're Kentucky

0:58

for it does. You. Have the ups

1:00

and downs and. Too. Many downs lately,

1:02

but we'll deal with it. Yeah, let's go

1:04

and give our patrons shout outs. We had

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Megan Duggar jump around our highest level hey

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thank you and is like. You. Think.

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Better initials M D M D in of

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she was an Md Would she be like

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M D M D. Yeah. They.

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Him D square on a briefcase

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or a portfolio around like that.

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Yeah I gotta Epa. Thank you

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Angie Girl was gone on a

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girl Cindy Hollenbeck he alum back

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at you Kelly Thompson to get

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their Hollenbeck at you. I gotcha

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Okay to just one that funny

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side in shock or hit it

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like the A: Kelly Nicky Scott

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What's going on? Nicky Rico Ah

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Rico Ashley Murray He actually Murray

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M What's going on Him: Deron

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Heresy There's there And Cassandra Love

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Bomb. Who. Labonte.

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Like. You know, A bomb that

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you know and then you

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just repeat the thick needed

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said previously bohemian able human

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rapper see. Eden

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or jumped out rise levels and

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fled you up at a one

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year on on fire. Tonight is

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Gambia agreed upset also. Thanks thanks

2:09

for say that Charlotte Upton was

2:11

going on Charlotte and last the

2:13

not least, Sarah Parker A Sarah

2:15

People are going to think we've

2:17

been drinking Herzog the summer and

2:19

we go back into the vault

2:21

says we we selected Cd O'connor

2:23

she's been a friend for a

2:25

long time. Center send a bunch

2:27

of stuff in the mail bags.

2:30

With communicated for years. Would love

2:32

to thank you Katie! Bells

2:34

out a great pay pal donation from

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Robin to He thinks Robinson. Thank you

2:38

to everyone gives we have so much

2:40

our right now. On Saturday

2:43

night we dropped a new

2:45

Patron episode. About this

2:47

guy named Anthony Garcia he was

2:49

involved in ten of again shooting.

2:52

And it took them like for years. To.

2:55

Catch him. But it's the way they

2:57

caught him. That. Is fascinating.

2:59

It's based on us to.

3:02

That. He. Got. Put

3:04

on his body in. It. Essentially

3:07

depicted the crime scene. That

3:09

the smartest guy now. We. Also

3:11

have a brand new episode of to

3:13

Cram All The Time Outs where we're

3:16

finishing up. With. Part to

3:18

on Larry and Danny Rains.

3:20

Your. We get into the final

3:23

stages of the investigation. The

3:25

trial of Danny Frames. The.

3:27

Seed of Brent Faster and then

3:30

how the brothers can have continued

3:32

to make headlines in the decades

3:34

and fall. And we were talking about.

3:36

Really? Three killers here. Yes,

3:39

To. Them. Serial. Killers

3:41

who happened to be brothers

3:43

who acted independently. Basic.

3:45

Story. Sorry. Buddy Are you a

3:47

to get into this episode of True

3:49

Crime all the time? I'm so I

3:52

am ready. Were talking about the Curia

3:54

family murders. On. July Twenty ninth.

3:56

Two Thousand And Seven. Jane.

3:58

Syria was enjoy. A visit

4:00

from her family. Who. Lived in Tinge.

4:03

Jane. Her three children and

4:05

a young cousin. Who. Was

4:07

saying over. went to bed

4:10

and were bludgeoned. In.

4:12

Their sleep. Jane. And her

4:14

daughters died from their injuries. But

4:16

her son and his cousin server.

4:19

Once. They recovered. They. Had no

4:21

memories of the attack. And. This

4:23

was. Obviously a very

4:26

horrific triple murder that

4:28

remains unsolved today. And

4:30

I'm surprised they don't recall anything that happens

4:32

a lot. and some of these cases when

4:34

they've had. Severe. Head Trauma. Yeah.

4:37

And I'm sure their age may have played a

4:39

factors well. Jane. Curia and

4:41

her children were originally from

4:43

Kenya. Sources: Didn't.

4:46

Really provide much information about

4:48

James early life and articles

4:50

even listed different ages for

4:53

her. At. The time of her

4:55

death. Some. Articles reported that she

4:57

was young as forty two, while

4:59

others said she was forty nine

5:02

years old. And unfortunately this

5:04

is something we run into side

5:06

a bit. You know, we

5:08

looked through so many different

5:10

articles while researching a case

5:13

and you just fine. Differences.

5:16

In the report. Now

5:18

sometimes you can find a

5:20

nos. To settle on.

5:22

Something. Being a fact. Sometimes.

5:25

You can't. So. What I will

5:27

say is it to say the James

5:30

in her forties. She had three

5:32

children. Two daughters and a son.

5:34

Her. Daughter Isabella was nineteen years

5:37

old when she was murdered.

5:39

Annabel was sixteen years old.

5:42

And. Jeremy was a. At the

5:44

time of the attack. Although. There

5:46

were some sources that listed him

5:48

as seven. Relatives. Described

5:51

how Isabella. And

5:53

Annabel loved and spoiled their

5:56

little brother. A. Man he

5:58

love to hear that. Because. You

6:00

know, often times we hear

6:03

about. The. Say there's two

6:05

older sisters. And they like to gang

6:07

up. On. Their their younger

6:09

brother and in torment him.

6:12

And. In the other way around

6:14

as well sometimes. but. I

6:16

always like to hear about

6:18

older siblings. You. Loving,

6:21

spoiling, protecting, Their.

6:24

Youngest ever yeah it is Give

6:26

you a really good feel emitters.

6:28

What aca a new loved year

6:30

old. Difference between. Between. Him

6:32

and. And. So that probably has

6:34

something to do with yet. Your.

6:36

They result like they were. You.

6:39

Nine, Eleven And Thirteen.

6:41

Okay, maybe they would have been a little

6:43

more friction. If. That was the case,

6:46

James. Nephew Mark to mob.

6:49

Did. An interview for the show

6:51

still a mystery where he

6:53

described. Isabella is calm and

6:55

collected. She. Was also a

6:57

highly intelligent straight a student.

7:00

It was sad that Annabel

7:02

loved children and participated in

7:05

church leadership. So. I had a

7:07

lot in common with Isabella. Calm. Collected

7:09

straight a student. highly intelligent.

7:11

Well, he said enemy, but

7:13

thank you. But. Here

7:15

again, as we often. Hear.

7:18

Her. Talking about. People.

7:21

Who. Are victims of

7:23

a horrible crime? And. We

7:25

find out that to just amazing

7:27

people. yeah they're just. Levin.

7:29

Lies doing within. And. Just doing the

7:31

right thing. Jane. And her children

7:33

left Kenyan January two thousand and

7:36

one. After her husband died

7:38

in their home was destroyed. Sources:

7:41

Didn't specify how their home

7:43

was destroyed. However, it was

7:46

reported the Jane and her

7:48

husband were target because of

7:50

their opposition to female genital

7:52

mutilation. Is. In L a strange thing

7:54

to be targeted for. When. You're saying?

7:57

A. Is Not right? And

7:59

someone. Decides that. They.

8:01

Want to target you? Heard chew?

8:04

Over. That believe Yeah yeah. Female.

8:07

Genital mutilation comprises all

8:09

procedures that involve partial

8:12

or total removal of

8:14

the external female genitalia

8:16

for non medical reasons.

8:19

It. Has no health benefits

8:21

and can cause bleeding,

8:23

urinary tract issues. Serious

8:25

infections and complications with

8:28

sober. According to a

8:30

February Two Thousand Twenty Four

8:32

report by the World Health

8:34

Organization, there are currently two

8:36

hundred million living individuals who

8:39

have undergone female genital mutilation

8:41

across thirty countries in Africa,

8:43

the Middle East, and Asia

8:45

where it is most commonly

8:48

practice. Female. Genital mutilation,

8:50

often abbreviated as Fgm is

8:52

mostly done to girls between

8:55

infancy and age fifteen. It's.

8:57

Classified as a human rights

9:00

violation. So. I mean

9:02

when you find out. You. Could

9:04

understand. Why? There would be a

9:06

lot of people. Who would oppose?

9:08

Oh, for sure. But. If

9:11

you're in. A country,

9:13

let's say where it's practice.

9:15

Could. That opposition. Lead.

9:18

To troubles free. Yeah.

9:20

Save Them. If. It's

9:22

consider that the outsider er

9:25

an outlier gap or something

9:27

along those lines. M.

9:30

Like I said, we don't have all the

9:32

details, but it does sound. As

9:34

if this opposition. To

9:37

ask Gm. Was. Kind of

9:39

the heart. Of. The.

9:41

Troubles that they have. You.

9:44

Could it have. Had something to

9:46

do with her husband's death. Could.

9:48

Have. Had. Something to do

9:50

with their homes being destroyed. And

9:53

I would say. Yes, To both

9:55

we just don't know. Fgm

9:57

is sometimes done by people who

9:59

are. Religious, but the World

10:02

Health Organization report said no

10:04

religious scripts call for the

10:06

practice. Gene. Curia was

10:08

outspoken against this issue because

10:11

she was forced to undergo

10:13

Fgm because of an extremist

10:15

religious sects. according to Star

10:18

News online, She. Fled the

10:20

country because she didn't want her daughter's

10:22

to go through the same thing. The

10:24

Catholic Church helped Jane and her

10:27

children travel to South Africa. They.

10:29

Arrived in Boston in March two

10:32

thousand one. And. Moved to Georgia.

10:34

In. February Two Thousand Two.

10:37

Clumsy. Can see. probably felt safe. You.

10:40

Know sitting at worry about. Somebody.

10:42

Coming by wanting to perform. The.

10:45

Surgery on her daughters. Are

10:47

forcing it to be perform road

10:49

or anything along those lines? Yeah.

10:51

I wasn't. All. That familiar.

10:54

With. This practice. And

10:56

I was kind of stance by some

10:58

of the numbers and. How

11:00

widespread it is. And

11:02

the wonder pore we reference was. From.

11:05

Earlier this year. So. Obviously

11:07

is still pretty prevalent.

11:10

Today. Later. That year

11:12

they settled in Powder Springs,

11:14

a suburb of Atlanta be

11:16

join the Harvesters Ministries International

11:19

Church in Marietta in Jane

11:21

Or and a nursing degree.

11:23

So. Sounds like you know they arrived

11:26

in the Us. They. Were doing

11:28

pretty well. Yes, He got a

11:30

nursing degree and I feel about nurses.

11:32

Oh love nurses. My mom's a nurse,

11:34

my daughter studying to be a nurse.

11:36

He. Was said. the Jane was willing

11:38

to do anything it took to provide

11:41

for her killed. At the

11:43

time of Er Das, she worked in

11:45

a hospital and a nursing home. At

11:47

one point two or three jobs, But.

11:50

She had to quit one of them. Due.

11:52

To exhaustion. But. Is not

11:54

surprising to me and mean here's a mom

11:56

it said so do anything for her kids.

11:59

In for her. Two jobs, Three jobs. He's trying

12:01

to do any and everything she can make ends

12:03

meet. And obviously you have

12:05

to. You. Know applaud.

12:08

That. type of thinking he was

12:10

so often on T Cat. Were.

12:13

Talking about killers who

12:15

often have bad childhoods.

12:17

Fathers. Who beat them?

12:20

Mothers who neglect them. Were.

12:22

Obviously not talking about that

12:25

here. Jane. Was committed.

12:27

To being a good mother.

12:30

Doing. The best that she could

12:32

to provide for her children. In.

12:34

Two thousand saw Jane and the

12:36

kids moved into a larger home

12:38

in a nice quiet neighborhood. James.

12:41

Neighbor: When Mason told The Atlanta

12:43

Constitution that Jane told her she

12:45

used to live in an apartment.

12:48

And loved having a house for herself and the

12:50

kids. And there's nothing. Wrong.

12:53

At all with living in an apartment

12:55

lot of people do. Sir. They

12:57

do. But. For me. And.

12:59

I'm just talking about myself. Something.

13:02

So nice about. A

13:04

house. Having. Your own space,

13:07

not being connected to any

13:09

one else. Having. Your own

13:11

yard. It's. Nice. But.

13:14

You know with it comes the fact that

13:16

you have to do a lot maintenance as

13:18

the you know what the people don't want

13:20

that assist the weather argument. On the

13:22

other side of be like look. We. Have a

13:24

nice yard but somewhere else maintains it.

13:26

The you know we don't have to

13:28

do the exterior maintenance and the. And

13:30

we have. This is a beautiful living

13:33

space and sometimes there are things inside

13:35

the house. they get six by somebody

13:37

else. Some apartments I'm sure. So.

13:40

Yeah, there's there's. Pros: And

13:42

cons for bucks. He had been:

13:44

was ill your personal preference? Yes

13:46

Absolutely. James. Immigration Attorney

13:48

Charles Koch told The

13:50

Atlanta Constitution. Jane. Was

13:53

an extraordinary woman. Who. Had

13:55

succeeded despite the odds against

13:57

her. She. Had really be gone

13:59

to. The American Dream. Jane's.

14:02

Nice Diana mean I expressed similar

14:04

thoughts the i'll let eleven a

14:06

lot saying Jane was really really

14:08

hard work. She. Was so

14:10

dedicated to her family and even after

14:13

her husband does. She. Was

14:15

so dedicated to raising her

14:17

children. So. I think

14:19

for sure we're getting a really

14:21

good picture here. Of

14:24

Check. Your hard working

14:26

mom! Very. Dedicated to

14:28

her shelter. And a sounds

14:30

like she came from a difficult. Past.

14:33

She. Fled to the U S. And.

14:35

I'm sure she was do everything she can.

14:38

To. Keep her kids from have to go back

14:40

to that. Wife. Diana.

14:42

Added that she couldn't think

14:44

of any reason someone would

14:46

want to her. James the

14:48

whole family was fun loving

14:50

and polite. Others, Jane, especially

14:52

was outgoing and loved hosting.

14:55

People. And we hear this refrain

14:57

a lot. You know when when

14:59

somebody is murdered? A. Lot of

15:01

times people come out say. Well.

15:03

They have no enemies. They were nice to

15:06

everyone. I can't think of a

15:08

single person. Who. Would want her.

15:10

First. It's. Love Hosting

15:12

New Loss Hosting. Not me,

15:14

me neither. As often you knew

15:16

some nothing. I am not a

15:18

host. Not. A host. James.

15:21

Neighbor Ramen Reisman told The

15:23

Atlanta Constitution that her husband.

15:26

Health. Jane hang curtains and or

15:28

new home. She wanted curtains covering

15:30

all the windows. Even. The

15:33

large ones above her front door

15:35

so that no one could see

15:37

through without getting on a laugh.

15:40

She. Thought this was a little unusual. Especially.

15:43

After James till. Then I

15:45

could see where you'd have that saw do. Now.

15:48

I like for. I don't

15:50

want people being able to see.

15:53

In South. Yemen. Your house

15:55

is a little strange. I will say

15:57

that the fact that most homes have.

16:00

So many windows on a. Website.

16:02

That you have lakes for windows,

16:05

Around the whole house, it's it, as I

16:07

don't want any on the front. Yes, is

16:09

brick the whole thing. It was really strange

16:11

by guess. I'm used to it now, yes,

16:13

but. You. Can see. Why?

16:16

This would be a little

16:18

strange to someone, but how

16:20

much more strange would it

16:22

be after that person? Was.

16:24

Murder Jeff is undertaken home

16:26

I guess is that why

16:28

she was concern? and yeah,

16:30

because she was fearful of

16:32

something or someone. By. Two

16:34

thousand and Seven James oldest

16:37

daughter Isabella was in college.

16:39

She was living in Chattanooga,

16:41

Tennessee. And. Attending pharmacy

16:43

school, Annabel was in

16:45

high school in Germany, was in

16:47

elementary school. At the time of Er.

16:49

Det. Jane. Was dealing with

16:52

some issues with their families

16:54

immigration status. She had applied

16:56

for asylum. But. Her request was

16:58

denied. And she was in the

17:01

process of appeal. Hearing. For

17:03

her daughter's was scheduled for August

17:05

twenty ninth. And I'm sure they had

17:07

a be. Nerve. Wracking? yeah, I'm sure

17:09

weight on her mean you mentioned it.

17:12

I got the sense that. If.

17:15

She was pretty happy. In

17:17

her. New. Place right?

17:20

Here. In the Us. I. Can

17:22

imagine that she wanted to go back.

17:24

And. Say some of the issues that

17:27

she had dealt with before. Yeah,

17:29

Some. Sure that was weighing on her, it

17:31

was on her mind. According. To

17:34

her attorney, Charles cocked the

17:36

judge believe she gave inconsistent

17:38

testimony. And that's she

17:40

was not subjectively afraid to

17:42

return to Kenya, which is

17:44

a requirement to prove that

17:46

an individual needs a sign.

17:49

Subjectively. Yeah. I

17:51

was. Trying. To can as. Dissect.

17:55

Know. Maybe it's in the word

17:57

see use during the testimony.

18:00

Because. I can't imagine that she wasn't

18:02

afraid to return. Given. All

18:04

of the things that we talked about.

18:07

In. Her fear. That. Her

18:09

daughter's would be subjected to.

18:12

The. Same thing that she was. That.

18:14

Would be fearful. Than. You would

18:16

think. That. Are tourney. Probably

18:19

that coach or. On. What

18:21

to say? What's needed for asylum? He

18:23

would think so. In July

18:26

two thousand and seven some members

18:28

of Jane's family revisiting her from

18:30

kinda. On. July twenty ninth.

18:33

Jane. Sister in law Pauline then.

18:36

Dropped. off her ten year old son peter.

18:38

Nicknamed. Pk to play with

18:41

Jeremy and sleep over Jane's house.

18:44

And I remember when my kids were younger.

18:46

You. The have two cows. And. I

18:48

was a big deal. Either.

18:51

Yo. Because. I'm staying

18:53

here. Them. Staying over the

18:55

cousins are all for them. Staying at

18:57

grandma's house Sat was a big deal

18:59

as well. As the for you in your

19:01

life is them and nobody was here. The. Men

19:04

More X box time as I would imagine what

19:06

you call it. But. It's nice

19:08

when you know you have. Your.

19:10

Brother, your sister, your siblings.

19:13

But. Didn't you have this other

19:15

person Or other people who

19:17

are connected to you in

19:20

a different way? And you

19:22

get along with them very well. As always

19:24

Loved have a my. Nieces. Or

19:26

nephews come over and and stay with my kids.

19:28

Are you? Even when they went over there to

19:30

serve as a new with they were going have

19:33

a good time death you know and I just

19:35

worry about. Well. That's the other

19:37

thing you know who. their stand on

19:39

a with Air much different than. Some.

19:42

Of my. Kids, his friends' parents. I

19:44

didn't even know that. Well, And

19:46

I was. There is always a little

19:48

trepidation. Sure, If I didn't know

19:50

them that well of okay they're gone over

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20:29

The two boys spend all day playing

20:31

outside and went to bed early that

20:33

evening because they were exhausted. That

20:35

day Jane cooked in, visited with her

20:37

sister in law. On. July

20:40

twenty ninth Jane Curtain talk to

20:42

her sister in law, loosey goosey

20:44

about her new job. But.

20:46

No one heard from Jane on

20:49

Monday July. Third, And while

20:51

this was concerning. No. One

20:53

went to the how sad it. On July

20:55

thirty first. A cousin named Oh

20:57

and then went to Jane's house to

21:00

check on every once he looked through

21:02

the windows on either side of James

21:04

front door. But. Couldn't see or

21:06

hear anything. He. Noticed that Jane

21:08

and Isabel those cars run the driveway,

21:11

but he figure that someone else might

21:13

have picked them up to take them

21:15

out to dinner. So. He

21:17

laughed without investigating further. By.

21:20

August First Pauline. Jane.

21:23

Sister in law was panicking. Shen.

21:25

Heard from Jane. Or. Seen her

21:27

son. Into full day. And.

21:30

It wasn't like Jane. To

21:32

avoid communicating with her family so.

21:35

Pauline. Knew something was seriously wrong.

21:37

By. This point. And two days

21:40

isn't as a long time. Yeah, I'm

21:42

is day three, right? He. Said to

21:44

four days passed. Out on of I can

21:46

make it that long. Yeah. I had that thought

21:48

as well. But. Again, It's.

21:51

Family. So. Maybe you

21:53

don't worry as quickly, but. I.

21:55

Had that thought to. As a long

21:57

time to go without hearing from you. Child.

22:01

A room. How did you go last night?

22:03

He. Doing okay over there. You need anything.

22:06

But. You know, some people were more.

22:08

Relaxed. But. Obviously

22:11

she's not relaxed at this point. she's

22:13

panic. James. Other sister in

22:15

law, Lucy, had also been calling

22:17

her home and sell and received

22:19

no inch. Pauline Vocab

22:22

James Nice Diane around nine

22:24

thirty am. She. Asked Diana

22:26

to go with her to James House so

22:28

they could see what was going on. Diana

22:31

recall that Pauline was any

22:33

complete pan fry that she

22:35

was. They. Got their just before

22:37

ten am. They. Assume that by

22:39

this point in the morning someone

22:42

would be up making breakfast and

22:44

easy. You. Know, with most people,

22:46

that's a pretty good assumption. Here.

22:49

Few cups of coffee probably of importer

22:51

a d and we see or I

22:53

know you probably would have five cups

22:55

of coffee Porter eighty, maybe some eggs

22:57

and bacon. Gotten her. Something. As

22:59

can be some go. Pauline.

23:02

And Diana notice that Jane and

23:04

Isabella cars were stolen the driveway.

23:06

Diana. Told Pauline to check the

23:09

front door while she went around

23:11

back. But. Both women ended

23:13

up going towards the back of the

23:15

house. They. Walked up a set of

23:17

stairs to a porch on the second store.

23:20

Where. There was a sliding glass door. They.

23:22

Couldn't see anything through the back window.

23:25

The. Vertical blinds on the sliding glass

23:27

door was closed, but there were

23:29

deaths. The house was very dark,

23:32

Which. Made it difficult to see

23:34

anything. Diana. Tried the door

23:36

and realize that it was unlocked.

23:39

She. Stepped inside and saw that

23:41

all the curtains were drawn. And.

23:43

Cartoons were playing on the

23:45

Tv. There. Was just enough line.

23:48

For. Her to see a large pool of

23:50

blood and a body on the for. And.

23:53

Right there my adrenaline would suit up. Yeah.

23:55

Me either you would for anyone

23:58

the level loves saw seer. I

24:00

mean there's all kinds of different

24:02

words you could use. Seeing a

24:04

large pool of blood and a

24:06

bot to you're already worth. What

24:09

we talked about. These. People are

24:11

worried. They have been worried.

24:13

The word panic is been

24:15

used. And now. Your.

24:17

Worst fears. If that

24:20

has even enters your mind, Or

24:22

beings him for. Something. Really

24:24

bad his hat. Than.

24:27

A Toward Eleven a lot There

24:29

was blood like on the walls

24:31

and it was really really dark.

24:34

Diana. Immediately step back outside.

24:36

And. Told Pauline not to go in

24:39

the house. She. Dialed Nine One

24:41

One. Pauline. Pleaded with her

24:43

to tell her what she saw. Diana

24:45

told her I saw body. I.

24:48

Don't know who's it is. She.

24:50

Suspected it was her Aunt

24:52

Jane, but she wasn't sure.

24:55

In. Or nine one one call Diana

24:57

reported I saw body on the

24:59

floor. And. There's book. And.

25:01

Pauline. Me: I think

25:03

she was the one that was most. Panicked.

25:06

To. Begin with. I can

25:09

imagine her state of mind after

25:11

hearing that news from Diane. Yeah.

25:14

That you'd want to Russian. Find

25:16

your child but also. Afraid

25:18

what you'll find? Yeah, I

25:20

can imagine some conflicting emotions.

25:23

Or. Ideas.

25:25

Bouncing. Around. You. Know what?

25:27

Do I do? Too. I wait for

25:29

the police to get here and let

25:31

them go in first. Could my

25:34

child be alive and heard? Do they

25:36

need me? So like I might

25:38

wanna run in. But. Also, is

25:40

there a thought that. Maybe.

25:43

There's a really bad individual still

25:45

inside the home. Yeah, What?

25:47

Am I walking into. First. Responders

25:50

got there within minutes. Detective John

25:52

Dogs described the crime scene is

25:55

one of the most vicious assault

25:57

he'd ever seen. Jane.

26:00

Isabella, an animal. Had.

26:02

Been bludgeoned to death, Jane.

26:04

Was found in the kitchen. it

26:06

appeared. That. She tried to fight

26:08

her attacker. But. Was over power.

26:11

Isabella was on the landing at the

26:13

top of the stairs. It looked like

26:16

Annabel was attacked as she stepped out

26:18

of her. Said. Any

26:20

doesn't surprise me one bit. Did.

26:22

See here that. Jane. Tried

26:25

to fight her attacker me based off of

26:27

everything that we've said about her. She

26:29

would have done anything for

26:32

her children. Yes, I mean.

26:34

She. Was a fighter. In. She would have

26:36

fought to her last breath. Yeah, And

26:39

I think she probably did. Pk.

26:41

And Jeremy were store. Bought.

26:43

Severely injured. Jeremy.

26:46

Was found in a bad m. P.

26:48

K was found next to a living

26:50

room couch. The boys had been unconscious

26:52

for about twenty four hours. According.

26:55

To one investigator, detective John

26:57

Dawes theorize that they survived

27:00

the attack. Because. Their

27:02

heads were laying on pillows and

27:04

mattresses. Which. Soften the

27:06

blow somewhat. Interesting, You

27:09

know, On. That theory. But.

27:11

Thankfully that's you know they had the

27:13

pillows or the. The. Mattress that

27:16

soften. The. Blow the came down on.

27:18

The clearly do some damage. They were unconscious

27:20

for twenty four hours. Yeah, they

27:23

were both rushed to the Atlanta

27:25

Children's Hospital. And. Then they

27:27

were unconscious for a number of

27:29

days after that. There. Were no

27:31

signs of forced entry. Which. Further

27:33

added to the mystery. And

27:35

I keep going back and forth on.

27:38

Forced. Entry. I. Understand

27:40

what it means to

27:42

investigators. Obviously you know if you

27:44

go to a crime scene. As.

27:46

An investigator. And.

27:48

The doors kicked death right? Well.

27:51

That's obviously forced answer. Or the

27:53

back window is broken? Or the

27:56

sliding glass doors broken? That's.

27:58

Deathly going to tell you some. The. But.

28:01

The absence of any sign

28:03

of forced entry, That's.

28:05

When I'm not really sure about what is

28:07

it? Me: Because. We.

28:09

All have answer the door. For.

28:11

People. Sometimes. I even answers

28:14

the door for people I don't know. You.

28:16

Do whizzing it. Would it be

28:18

possible? For. Someone as soon as

28:20

you answered the door, Open The door.

28:23

To receive. Absolutely. And

28:25

therefore, they're really wouldn't

28:28

be. To. Have those telltale

28:30

signs of forced entry. He also make

28:32

the case at the door was unlocked

28:34

and they just came on in the

28:36

ad or fall one the kids in

28:38

there's a number of different scenarios that

28:40

you could make but I understand why

28:42

it always comes up and case. But

28:44

you also can serve to the point

28:46

that. Maybe. It was somebody

28:48

with the family. New work or

28:50

seen new. Yeah, a new yes

28:53

and no. Once they came in.

28:55

A test. And. I think a

28:57

lot of times the absence of forced

29:00

entry does. Tend to lead

29:02

investigators to thinking that or at

29:04

least you know the possibility of

29:06

than. But. Like I said, I

29:08

did he he can't always mean that

29:11

because a stranger could. Figure.

29:13

Out a way to get in. Without.

29:15

using. Force. Or leaving

29:17

saw. That. They forced their way

29:19

and. While. The police were

29:22

investigating the crime scene. Pauline.

29:24

Was outside scream. Are. They

29:26

all dead. Are they all that? According.

29:29

To one neighbor. Diana. Recall

29:31

that the family felt hopeless

29:33

and devastate. They weren't sure

29:35

what to do because. They. Weren't

29:38

citizen? They. Were also confused

29:40

and had no idea. Who. Would

29:42

want to harm the same. And

29:44

I think that's a a big point

29:46

to consider hear. You. There

29:48

visiting from Tin. Some.

29:50

Of these individual to be scary if

29:53

you're from here. Oh absolutely,

29:55

but not to be from the

29:57

country and not knowing how things

29:59

work? The hill be even more

30:01

so the I would adam level. To.

30:04

What would already be a

30:06

very scary situation? And

30:08

at this point they don't even know.

30:10

The. Status of every in saw. Obviously.

30:13

Because Pauline is screaming Or the all

30:15

dad? Are they old Dad? Pk.

30:18

Regained consciousness about a week

30:20

after the attack. But. He had

30:22

no memories of what happened or who

30:25

entered the home. Severe. Head

30:27

trauma. Not surprised. No. I I

30:29

think. He. Was very lucky.

30:32

That. Even server. And

30:34

the same goes with germs. and

30:36

he was unconscious for several more

30:38

weeks. He spent about two

30:40

months in the hospital. Recovering.

30:43

From his injuries. And. I think

30:45

that just tells you how severe. They.

30:47

Were. Two. Months in the hospitals

30:49

a long time. To. Some of

30:51

that, you know he was unconscious. But.

30:54

Obviously. He was lucky

30:56

to have escaped with his life. Investigators

30:59

determined that the murder

31:01

weapon. Was. A long,

31:03

skinny object. That was likely

31:06

forth at one end. The. Weapon

31:08

was not found at the house. Detective.

31:11

John Dawes theorize the Jane was

31:13

the target of the attack. And

31:16

so with the kids were just some. Something.

31:18

That had to be dealt with. Well if

31:20

you think about. Jane.

31:23

Been the target, which I could

31:25

understand why that theory would emerge.

31:28

It's. Her house? Yeah, She's.

31:30

Of the old is she probably knows

31:32

the most people. Dead. And

31:34

I think you have to go to. The.

31:37

Perpetrator. Not.

31:39

Wanting to leave behind witnesses.

31:42

As the only thing I can think of

31:44

this is Jane is that the target in

31:46

the only target. Yobs. Is thinking

31:48

of the. If the boys were asleep

31:50

but we don't know, they were actually sleep. They.

31:52

Could just been. Yeah, we have no idea. Yeah.

31:55

But. Door de Sac. Sixty days worth

31:57

of James phone records for evidence.

32:00

The identified a number. They belong

32:02

to a man named Patrick. For.

32:04

At least sixty days, if not

32:07

longer. Patrick in Jane talked every

32:09

single day. Sometimes.

32:11

Twelve The Sistine times a day.

32:14

That's a lot. Show. You

32:17

a like talking to somebody twelve or

32:19

fifteen days and a year. That.

32:21

Is very true. But.

32:23

Depending. On what this relationship?

32:25

What? If you're in

32:27

that sign of. New. Stage

32:29

new! Getting to know you.

32:32

On. The Verge of Love

32:35

states. I'll. Call it. I

32:37

don't know if it's abnormal. To. Talk a

32:39

Lot. I mean my wife and I used is

32:41

hop on the phone a. Before.

32:44

She was my wife. Now. It's all non

32:46

verbal. Now

32:48

we don't talk at all on the skin. Western,

32:51

you're still discovering each other

32:53

and. Trying to figure out who

32:55

people are and you know you want to get

32:57

to know them you want to talk to the

32:59

the some people to talk. Some

33:02

people do. I. Am not one of those people.

33:04

According. To James nephew Mark

33:07

Mana Patrick was married. So.

33:09

The family didn't think too much of

33:11

his relationship with Jack. He. Noticed

33:13

that Patrick was always hanging

33:16

around. Sources: Didn't say

33:18

if the family knew about their many

33:20

phone calls before the murder. So.

33:22

Once you find out that

33:24

information, Why? Obviously. That.

33:27

Add some context. it does.

33:29

Because. These are not to single

33:31

people. Getting. To know each

33:33

other, One. Of the participants

33:35

is Mary. Patrick in jane

33:38

last spoke around ten pm. On.

33:40

The day of the murder. And investigators thought

33:43

it was on. That. He

33:45

stopped contacting her. After

33:47

that. When. The police spoke

33:49

to Patrick. He couldn't explain. Why?

33:52

He suddenly stopped calling j.

33:55

And how could they not find that

33:57

off? The mean: you're going back through

33:59

records. Talking ten fifteen

34:01

times a day. Every day.

34:04

For. At least. Sixty.

34:06

Days probably longer. And

34:09

then all the sudden the phone call start.

34:11

To. Flee bizarre. As. Gonna have to

34:13

Would put some why it on there there's

34:16

no doubt. And even more

34:18

if you can explain.

34:20

Why? That is. Known. For the

34:22

phone calls went both ways. That

34:24

also think it might put a low

34:26

light on Patrick's wife to, right? maybe

34:29

she found out about this. Well.

34:31

Sure, it entered the minds of

34:33

investigate once they found all this.

34:35

So. You. Could we have

34:37

a situation here? Where.

34:40

A Why sound out that her

34:42

husband was talking to another woman?

34:45

Twelve. Fifteen times a day.

34:48

Maybe. She discovered that there was even

34:50

more going on tour. And

34:52

in a jealous rage. Committed.

34:55

This horrible. Attack in.

34:58

Multiple. Murders effort a similar

35:00

scenarios before. Recording. To

35:02

Detective Dogs Patrick was willing

35:04

to speak officers and answer

35:06

their questions. By. When he

35:09

was asked serious questions related to the

35:11

case, he had nothing to say. However,

35:14

Dawes. Said that Patrick was com.

35:17

And. Showed knowing Xiety while speaking

35:19

to the. Okay, What?

35:22

Do you make of that? So.

35:24

It's one thing to say. You

35:26

know I'll answer your question. In.

35:30

You. Ask me a tough question. And

35:32

then I've got nothing to say was

35:35

easy to sit and answer such services.

35:37

In A and then I did. You have to.

35:40

Can figure out what to make of

35:43

this guy. Being. Calm showing

35:45

knowing Xy the. Your.

35:47

You can look at it as. He

35:50

was com because. He

35:52

didn't have anything to worry about. Or.

35:55

Some. People are just. Able to

35:57

do that. And. That's something we've

35:59

learned. The. With. Killers before.

36:01

Yeah, it just seems. Strange

36:04

that you know this woman. That.

36:07

He. Actually cared a lot about because

36:09

he was talking to her so many

36:11

times every day. And now see

36:13

his dad. And. Her.

36:15

Two daughters are dead. At. This

36:18

would think that he be more shook up

36:20

there would be hard to be. Com

36:22

just on that alone. Or.

36:24

Even if you didn't have anything to do

36:26

with. The fact that this

36:29

horrible thing has happened. Yeah.

36:31

You wouldn't think most people would

36:33

be described as com. Patrick

36:36

presented a theory that led

36:38

the police to look into

36:40

the. Mungiki. Get.

36:42

Also known as the Kenyan Mossy.

36:45

According. To Patrick. Jane. Revealed

36:47

that the gang murdered her

36:49

husband. Charity. Give your

36:52

investigators. And you learn.

36:54

From. Family. What? Jane had been

36:57

through. The. Fact that. She

36:59

fled Sin. Yeah, You'd.

37:01

Have to take this story

37:04

somewhat seriously. Number. One her

37:06

husband did die. Yeah, And. She

37:08

did fear for her safety.

37:11

And. The safety of her girls, But.

37:13

I don't have the police believed him. Why

37:15

definitely think they. Began.

37:18

To doubt him. When. They obtain

37:20

the. Death. Certificate.

37:22

And learn that James husband died

37:25

of pneumonia. They. Began to

37:27

believe that Patrick was trying to

37:29

throw off their investigation by kinda

37:32

bringing up this get. Know.

37:34

I will throw little. Rents. Into

37:36

this. By saying. Maybe.

37:38

The Kenyan mob. Had. Ties

37:41

to. The corner. And

37:43

said a. Put. Down he died from.

37:46

Some illness him we don't up.

37:48

You. Know. Ten Discount Know.

37:51

But. If he really did die of

37:53

pneumonia. That probably takes

37:55

the Kenyan mafia out of.

37:58

Yeah. So either he made it up. Or.

38:01

Was information that Jane told him and he

38:03

was just passing on what. Jane.

38:05

And told him and that could have been as well. The.

38:07

Please Also learned that Patrick

38:09

Ball five thousand dollars from

38:11

Jane. While. Searching the house

38:14

they found handwritten notes on the dining

38:16

room table. The. Notes were numbers

38:18

that added up to five thousand

38:21

dollar. And Patrick admitted that

38:23

he owed Jane five thousand dollars,

38:25

but was insistent that she wasn't

38:27

pressuring him to pay her back

38:29

at the time of her death.

38:31

Studying. Patrick spent a couple of

38:33

things going against him a those. Number

38:36

One is married. He's. Obviously.

38:39

You. Having. This.

38:41

Very large number of phone calls

38:44

on a daily basis with another

38:46

woman we don't know exactly. What?

38:48

Was going on at this point. But.

38:51

There could have been a mode of their. Along

38:53

that route and then you have

38:55

this five thousand dollars. He

38:57

resists something he couldn't pay back.

39:00

We've. Seen people kill. Others

39:02

for a lot less than five thousand

39:05

dollars. Her hair. And maybe

39:07

there's a connection between the two. Your.

39:09

Pay me the money. Or. I'm

39:11

telling your wife's you could go, You

39:14

know something along that route as well.

39:16

So I'll stop you from telling my

39:18

wife. A Also

39:20

we mentioned it police thought he

39:22

acted as somewhat strange deaths. According

39:26

to James sister in law, Lucy,

39:29

the family lost contact with Patrick

39:31

after the Barry. Mean. I really.

39:33

Surprised. They're the family. Didn't really seem

39:36

like they cared about him anyway. He

39:38

probably felt that and probably just thought.

39:40

Was. Best when he had no

39:42

connection year to them really anyway,

39:45

his connection was with Jane, so

39:47

know that's that's not surprising to.

39:50

Detective. John Dawes noted

39:52

that Jane had no

39:54

significant deposits. Or. Dead. In

39:57

her account. About. A year

39:59

after the murder. Detectives.

40:01

Received or the jane was expecting a

40:03

large sum of money. But.

40:05

There was no evidence to support this.

40:08

However, Dawes noted that they

40:10

could not access Jane's kin.

40:13

Bank. Account. And I was

40:15

kinda surprised by that that she

40:17

still even have. A

40:20

Kenyan. Banks. Is how. You

40:22

would say. If you're moving

40:24

to the Us. In your

40:26

starting. A new. They're.

40:29

Doing. Close everything else you want to

40:31

take everything with. Yeah, I would

40:34

think so too, but maybe. Because. She

40:36

had family there she needed to we some

40:38

money into the account. or maybe she couldn't

40:40

close the account. Maybe. The see how to

40:42

get out of there so quick? As. He

40:44

was not able to fully close the

40:46

account now. or maybe she died. You

40:49

know, if. The. Worst happened and

40:51

they had to go back. She.

40:53

Would leave it there and yeah, don't know. While.

40:56

Lucy and the family were

40:58

making funeral arrangements. A woman

41:00

named Elizabeth who went to

41:02

church with Jane was trying

41:04

to obtain guardianship of germs.

41:07

It's possible that this woman

41:09

was Elizabeth. Munda. The.

41:12

Atlanta Constitution identified her

41:14

as James best friend.

41:16

An article from Two Thousand Eight.

41:18

However, this is unconfirmed. It

41:21

was around this time several weeks

41:23

after the attack. the jeremy finally

41:25

opened isn't. As an adult,

41:28

Jeremy. Recalled that he went to

41:30

sleep. And. His next memory

41:32

was waking up in the hospital.

41:35

Unable to speak or. Move

41:37

So. That does clear up one

41:39

thing. For. Us your question

41:42

you had. Had. The even

41:44

fallen asleep and a sounds like at

41:46

least Jeremy had. Been.

41:48

I see you're really. Your highlights

41:51

the extent of his memory

41:53

Will he remembered Gnostic? Which.

41:55

You know, I mean, he kind

41:57

of wish he remembered who did this.

42:00

The you're also glad he doesn't have a memory

42:02

of this. Horrific. Event:

42:04

Yes, Yep! I get that.

42:07

Lucy and other family members flew

42:09

to Kenya for the burials. Jeremy.

42:12

Remained in the hospital. An

42:14

Elizabeth was a frequent visitor.

42:17

When. Lucien Jeremy, his paternal grandmother returned.

42:19

As you ask, one of the

42:21

first thing they wanted to do

42:23

was go see Germany. But. Their

42:25

name had been removed from

42:27

the approved visitors list without

42:29

their knowledge or consent. And.

42:31

That seem seat. right? On the

42:34

part of some. Who. Wouldn't

42:36

want. The paternal. Grandmother.

42:39

To. See germ. And why wouldn't

42:41

you want that at this point? He needs

42:44

as much family as again around them. Because.

42:46

He doesn't have much to laugh though. Elizabeth

42:49

Head also established herself as

42:51

Jeremy legal guardian. While.

42:53

They were gone. She became

42:56

close with Jeremy maternal grandmother

42:58

who allowed this to happen.

43:00

Elizabeth eventually removed the rest of

43:02

the same. From. Jeremy record

43:05

so they could not see him

43:07

without her permission. It's. Wonder

43:09

why that is? You know, is it

43:11

a control thing? Or. You just didn't

43:13

want. The. Rest of the family

43:15

around him because we try to

43:18

protect them were was are other

43:20

reasons I'm not seeing protection. Because

43:22

I don't know why there would be

43:24

a need. To protect him

43:27

from his damn. I'm.

43:29

Getting a more sinister

43:31

vibe. You. Know it starts

43:34

with okay, you don't want

43:36

to Paternal grandmother. To. See

43:38

him. But. Then she gets

43:40

very close with the maternal. Grandmother.

43:44

Who. Allows her. To. Be

43:46

his legal guard. And then

43:48

after that. Sounds like

43:50

she just takes everybody else the

43:52

list so nobody can. See.

43:56

But. What was reported was that she'd

43:58

been inserting herself into. The case.

44:00

From. The be in. For. Example:

44:03

Genes Nice Diana toward Investigation

44:05

Discovery that on the day

44:07

she was supposed to identify

44:09

the bond. Elizabeth.

44:11

Told her she would handle. She.

44:13

Presented herself as a spokesperson for

44:16

the family which confuse them. Diana.

44:18

Said that culturally it was bizarre.

44:21

For. Elizabeth to step into that role.

44:24

She was in early twenties. At

44:26

the time. And felt that

44:28

she couldn't question. The. Older

44:30

one. So. You know regarding

44:32

all of this is gonna have

44:35

to ask yourself as someone who's

44:37

trying to help out. Or.

44:40

Is. It someone who is. Trying.

44:42

To establish themselves. As

44:45

can have an important call.

44:48

In in the process or

44:50

you know, within the family.

44:53

With. The ultimate goal of gaining

44:55

legal guardianship of Germ. Why

44:57

is that what? What's. The

45:00

benefits for her. Because. I don't

45:02

really see the benefits for him. So.

45:04

See doing this because somehow it's gonna

45:06

benefit her. She just wants control. Know

45:09

my first saw it was that. He.

45:11

Or she wanted. To. Be

45:13

Germany's legal guardian. But. You're

45:15

kind of leading me down a

45:17

path that you may be. There.

45:20

Was. Other motives as well.

45:22

You're. When you think about it, Jeremy.

45:25

The only survivor of that same

45:27

right? So. If there was

45:29

money, Which. We just talked about

45:31

the fact that. There. Was some talk

45:33

that she was about Brady Com and

45:35

a some money will then who would

45:38

that go to? It would

45:40

go to Germany's legal guardian some since

45:42

I've a financial benefits. According

45:44

to James nephew Mark to Mata,

45:46

things move fast. After Jeremy was

45:49

discharged from the hospital, he moved

45:51

in with Elizabeth and his maternal

45:54

grin. So. Sounds like. Those.

45:57

Two. Were. Okay with each

45:59

other. Or. Elizabeth was okay

46:01

with her. She. Wasn't okay with

46:03

everyone else in the same. Jeremy.

46:05

Paternal side of the families claim

46:08

that Elizabeth isolated Jeremy in only

46:10

allow them to visit him once

46:12

or twice a year. Elizabeth

46:15

soon began selling James

46:17

personal belongings are car

46:19

and eventually her house.

46:21

She. Said she was doing this to

46:23

set aside money in trust for Jeremy,

46:26

but the family believes she kept the

46:28

money for herself. And. Me, That's. Really

46:30

easy to prove you're right, She. Wanted

46:32

to seek it out the trust papers. says.

46:35

Counts say oh here's the paper will

46:37

bow on years, the balance it's in

46:39

else he concedes as dress and here's

46:41

the attorney managing it. But you can

46:43

see where the family is going with

46:45

this sir. And it's down

46:47

the road of. You, This

46:50

was all done. To. Get her

46:52

hands on. One. In

46:54

his interview for the show still

46:57

a mystery, Germy said elizabeth restricting

46:59

control. He. Could hardly do

47:01

anything or see anyone without her

47:03

permission. To. Forbade him to contact

47:06

his father's side of the family. She.

47:08

Brush them off whenever he asked about

47:10

the trust, saying things like i'll tell

47:13

you, wait. Jeremy. Claim that

47:15

he has never had access to

47:17

this month. And. There

47:19

he go. Mean. Why would she want to

47:21

keep him away from. His father's.

47:24

Side. Of the family. From. Everything

47:26

that we know. His. Mom.

47:29

Loved. His. Dad. There.

47:31

Was no issue. There seemed like she

47:34

got along with. Both. Sides of the

47:36

family. Why? Think if you go

47:38

down the conspiracy theory road. It.

47:40

Would be. That. She wants

47:42

to keep him away from almost

47:45

everyone. Because. There's.

47:47

Gonna be question. You. Know how you

47:49

doing, Is. She buying you everything

47:51

you need. Yeah, And what is,

47:53

she's not. She. Doesn't want

47:55

those questions to be answered his

47:57

she's not doing what she said.

48:00

Host to be don't re. providing.

48:02

Him with the things he needs taken care

48:04

of Him. Loose said

48:06

that they weren't. Necessarily

48:08

of sad about the financial situation,

48:11

they were upset that Elizabeth took

48:13

Jeremy away from the. Lucy.

48:15

Believes that Elizabeth know something about

48:18

what happened to Jane and her

48:20

daughter, and I think that notion

48:22

really leads you down the conspiracy

48:25

theory. Yeah. Because.

48:27

That would be the start up. To.

48:29

Get the money. You. Have

48:31

to have. Legal. Guardianship.

48:34

But. To get legal guardianship.

48:36

You. Have to get dressed as a family.

48:39

Out of the pits year began to be out of the way.

48:42

And. How do you do that? And does

48:44

it help explain? Why?

48:46

Jeremy was left a lot. Or.

48:48

Allowed to live. You. Can

48:50

make the case that. Person.

48:53

Hit him hard enough to try to do some.

48:56

Damage but not to kill. Basic.

48:58

Doing and capacity them. And.

49:00

That they would have to have full control

49:02

the estate. And. Never be question about it.

49:05

Yeah, I guess my one

49:07

struggle with that. His

49:09

his injuries were so severe.

49:12

I. Don't know. That

49:14

someone could do that in

49:16

ensure that. He.

49:19

Was. Going to live right? For. The

49:21

anything okay could have been. Something.

49:23

Very terrible happened. And.

49:25

Then somebody decided to try to profit off

49:28

of. That. Trash? Yes, yeah

49:30

there. There's a number of different.

49:32

Avenues. I think to go here.

49:35

And that's all assuming that. Elizabeth

49:37

was. Really? Trying to

49:40

do something. That. She shouldn't have

49:42

been. do. We. Don't know you to make case

49:44

it. She. Did it to. Look. Out

49:46

for his best interests. Seized. The

49:48

money's Razem. Maybe. There wasn't as

49:50

much money. They're what it thinks there was.

49:53

That. Because of she doesn't sell for counting fort.

49:55

Nobody's ever going on. know. But. I

49:57

think the one thing that goes against that

49:59

is. Your being you know, in his

50:02

twenties now. He's. Been a dollar

50:04

for a walk, right? So.

50:06

At. The very least. You.

50:08

Would think. He. Would be owed

50:11

and the king. Of the trucks.

50:13

yeah, I'd show me. Where. The money

50:15

went. Much. Upset.

50:17

Used it on me. In. To

50:19

raise me but. Not. Even

50:22

shown me that. As. Far

50:24

as Elizabeth potential connection to James

50:26

friend Patrick, the only thing linking

50:28

to was the fact that they

50:30

attended the same church. They.

50:33

Were never formally named as suspects.

50:35

No. Murder weapon or usable Dna

50:37

was left behind the crime scene,

50:39

but one piece above it still

50:42

gives investigators hopes that the keys

50:44

to be salt. In. The

50:46

days after the murders. Someone.

50:48

Spotted bloody hand towels and a

50:50

ditch about two miles from James.

50:52

How's. The. Towels were sent to

50:55

the state crime labs in a full

50:57

Dna profile was obtained. Civil.

50:59

Liberties protections prevent investigators

51:01

from running the profile

51:03

through a criminal database.

51:06

Now I've never heard of that either.

51:08

On that strange. But. Investigators were

51:10

able to work around this

51:12

by entering the Dna into

51:15

a genealogy database. Which. Is

51:17

another way to find a match. Still,

51:19

A mystery reported that results were

51:21

expected by the end of Two

51:23

Thousand Twenty Two. But. There

51:25

doesn't seem to be any news articles

51:28

online about the test results. And.

51:30

That always leads me to believe. That.

51:33

Nothing significant has come up

51:35

yet. Because. If there

51:37

had been somebody would write about rate. We.

51:40

Would have heard about. Jeremy. And

51:42

his cousins and kids have tried to

51:44

live normal lives after they survived the

51:46

attack. In. Two thousand eighteen

51:48

Germy was living in kids

51:50

with his grandmother. James.

51:53

Nice! Diana told eleven a lot that

51:55

Germy was studying to become a doctor.

51:58

He. Was seventeen years old. The

52:00

data. In. February Two Thousand

52:02

Eighteen Fox Five Atlanta reported that

52:04

he had surgery to remove a

52:07

brain to. It. Was believed to

52:09

be. A benign tumor. The.

52:11

Kenyan community in Atlanta made efforts

52:14

to raise money to pay his

52:16

hospital bill. When. Converted to

52:18

U S Dollars. You'd. Almost

52:20

thirty eight thousand doll. Jeremy.

52:23

Was supposed to travel back to Atlanta

52:25

for further treat. So. Again, you

52:27

know if there's this trust? Why?

52:30

Does he need people to help? Raise.

52:32

Money, You. Enlist. Like

52:34

you said, there wasn't that much

52:36

money in the trust and it was

52:38

all spends. Know it's expensive

52:41

to raise it is. But.

52:43

Yet these are things we just don't

52:45

know. But because the way it was

52:48

handled, it makes. You. Not really

52:50

sure why. is it makes

52:52

things seem suspicious? Yeah, Because

52:55

of the way that it all

52:57

went deaf ear sega say was

52:59

nobody's business that's why i admire

53:02

and again that but then a

53:04

day he saying. He. Hasn't

53:06

seen accountability for the. When. He

53:08

hasn't seen any of them on any. Jeremy.

53:10

Social media profile says he lives

53:13

in Kenya but works in Georgia.

53:15

So. It's a little unclear exactly

53:17

where he is at the moment,

53:19

but he's likely back in the

53:22

Us in two thousand eighty. it

53:24

was reported that's Germany's cousin Pj

53:26

was studying at the University of

53:28

Nairobi. Over. The years. Pk.

53:31

Has had a few memories of the

53:33

attack. He. Recalled someone coming

53:36

into the house. But.

53:38

He didn't know who they were. In

53:40

two thousand and seventeen Pk

53:42

was eating. You. God.

53:45

Which. Is a dish made of corn

53:47

meal and spinach. Apparently he was eating

53:49

the the very same thing. On.

53:51

The day of the attacks. In

53:53

this triggered a memory. And. Pk told

53:55

his mother did The man in

53:57

the house was wearing an African.

54:00

Heard I've. Heard of people.

54:03

You. Know having a memory triggered by

54:05

something like death? Yeah, I have

54:07

to. It's interesting. You know

54:09

he's seeing a man when an African

54:11

shirt. What? Does that mean them? And

54:14

owner. Doesn't. Lend credence

54:16

to the Kenyan mafia

54:18

story. Is is someone

54:20

who knew about the Kenyan

54:22

mafia and therefore dawned. And

54:25

Al says. Or for. Someone given

54:27

a gift of a shirt. And.

54:29

Decided to wear areas don't know when he

54:31

came over to visit. I. Think

54:34

what is interesting is that he

54:36

does say it's a me. Now

54:38

what does that mean? Does. That mean that

54:40

there was. No. One else involved

54:42

than I would say. No. The.

54:44

Curia family case is currently being

54:47

investigated by the Cobb County Cold

54:49

Case Unit. It's been over sixteen

54:51

years since Jane and her daughters

54:54

were murdered. Jane. Was a

54:56

wonderful month. And. A hard working nurse.

54:59

And. Her daughters had their

55:01

futures taking away from them by

55:03

an unknown kill. And. Jeremy.

55:06

Had so much taken away from hill. His.

55:08

Mother his sister's. All.

55:11

Those memories. That.

55:13

They would have shared to get. Your.

55:15

Jane. Fled. Kenya.

55:18

To. Protect her daughter from haven't this?

55:20

Terrible medical procedure. On.

55:23

Wanna Procedures. And it's

55:25

is heartbreaking because. He or she is.

55:27

She's making a. Good. Life for

55:29

her. And her kids.

55:32

Working. Hard. And whoever

55:34

this individual was came in and

55:36

just toward all part. That's.

55:38

A sad case. Is no doubt

55:40

about that. If you have any

55:42

information, you can contact the Cobb

55:44

County Da's Office cold Case unit.

55:47

Tip One. It's. Seven, Seven

55:49

Zero. Five. To wait. Three.

55:51

Zero three to or

55:53

email Cold Case a

55:55

Cobb County.for. So. As

55:57

we wrap this one up gibbs. In.

56:00

I'll. Be honest with you my mind.

56:03

Has. Gone on a bunch of

56:05

different direction. I mean, you

56:07

can't really? Say too much

56:09

about any one person because

56:12

there's just not enough evidence

56:14

to really say much about

56:16

them. You. When. We

56:18

talked about Elizabeth. I

56:21

will say some of the things she did

56:23

were very strange. But. You

56:25

can't say that. You. Know she had

56:27

anything to do with the murders. There's

56:30

no evidence to suggest that. I

56:32

do think that the whole interaction

56:35

with germy and and all that.

56:37

Is either. For. Trying to

56:40

do the right they are what she

56:42

saw was the right thing and protecting

56:44

him and protecting and taken care of

56:46

him. Or it was her trying to

56:48

get her hands on. Some. Money.

56:51

And. I have no idea which one it is.

56:53

Yeah, And then there's this whole thing was.

56:56

So bizarre. You. Know what

56:59

was. The state of

57:01

that relationship. We. Don't know.

57:03

It was five thousand dollars. enough to.

57:06

Cause. Her to be murdered. Or

57:08

was it a sense of jealousy? Or.

57:11

None. Of the above. Or. The thread

57:13

of. You know, his

57:15

wife been told again. There's so

57:17

many different avenues that you can

57:19

explore, but there's really just no

57:21

evidence to support any of them.

57:24

So. We're really

57:26

last. With. A.

57:28

Lot of questions in theory. Mood.

57:30

Have some hope right that maybe

57:32

something will be. Discovered.

57:34

With the Dna. Maybe. Yeah,

57:37

in that's assuming that. The.

57:39

Killers Dnase even on that's true.

57:42

We. Don't know who's dnase on. And

57:44

then you think, maybe. Pk.

57:46

Or. Jeremy. Will eventually

57:49

have more recall memories. Maybe.

57:52

They. Can go into better descriptions of what they

57:54

seem That might. The. I just,

57:56

I don't know. It's been so many

57:58

years. Sixteen years. I would

58:01

be very surprise. Yeah. Especially

58:03

with Jeremy if if he ever. Remembers.

58:06

Anything from that night. I. Mean

58:08

Pk did have that one memory so

58:10

it's possible. For. Something to to

58:12

trigger. But. That's it for our

58:14

episode on the Curia Family Murders. Get

58:16

some voice mails gives you an unchecked

58:18

as I assume. I guys

58:21

earn. Money. By.

58:23

The stereo and a solid let you know

58:26

that last. Episode you were

58:28

talking about.speaking. Had to

58:30

laugh because I was. Eating

58:33

or hops is so has a

58:35

high stakes are all good sized.

58:38

Love that is on. Came from

58:40

a few months. yes it's a

58:42

truncated for the better. I. Target

58:45

died He see. Rock. Picking.

58:48

She. Gets it? Does. You tried to

58:50

do that whole thing. With. An

58:52

Australian accent? We mean, try as.

58:55

I understand the good day. the

58:57

rest of it kind of morphed

58:59

into a very strange sea goddess.

59:02

She understands completely. His. Idea

59:04

what was angle is some spots in

59:06

terms of the accent. I

59:09

understood it to I'm talking about. You.

59:12

Trying to do the accent through the whole thing.

59:14

You. Have the one for it. You.

59:17

Know whether it's British or good day

59:19

or whatever it is that part comes

59:21

out. Yeah, it's when you try to

59:23

go further on. Into the conversation

59:25

I think we start to to I

59:27

was inspired to lose that a little

59:29

bit. Like us only barely. The guy

59:32

that does the wolverine. With. Remember his

59:34

name right now. A. Good look and chat. With.

59:36

His business. We're not going to help me. I

59:39

know you want me to tell you his name.

59:41

I can see him. You. Know but

59:43

then you should be able to think of all

59:45

his name at this moment I'm not telling her

59:47

no hidden for us and we're just gonna move

59:49

on. We are going to have to. Hi

59:52

my son Jimmy My name is Barb

59:54

I'm calling from upstate New York. I

59:56

love your podcast! I've listened to every

59:59

episode of. Another time and

1:00:01

I'm about thirty episodes in

1:00:04

and subprime. Unsolved. Arms.

1:00:06

As you said it's face

1:00:08

that I suggest you would

1:00:10

be interested to looking to

1:00:12

see unsolved case is happened

1:00:14

in Upstate New York where

1:00:16

I grew up. Arms this

1:00:18

case is for and still

1:00:20

unsolved. The girl's name is

1:00:22

Julie Myerson ammo and as

1:00:24

so and she disappeared in

1:00:27

September. Nineteen Eighty One and

1:00:29

other New York Times remains

1:00:31

were found in the nearby

1:00:33

Monism a wildlife refuge. In

1:00:35

Nineteen Eighty Three, there was someone that

1:00:37

was arrested and sent to prison for

1:00:40

her murder. He spent six

1:00:42

years in prison and then she

1:00:44

was released pieces season. Is a

1:00:46

new sound? be acquitted him or

1:00:49

something. Arm there was. Dna can

1:00:51

have selected as the side

1:00:53

to this day is still

1:00:55

not insisted on their accusations.

1:00:57

of political corruption and

1:00:59

com all kinds of

1:01:01

other ah miss turned

1:01:03

off by the police

1:01:05

and. Fire County officials

1:01:08

still do. Currently has a

1:01:10

running facebook page that is

1:01:13

called Justice for Julie nonsense.

1:01:16

And. It's a group of people from

1:01:18

the area is still talking about this

1:01:20

case forty years later. There are tons

1:01:22

of rabbit holes through down in the

1:01:25

thorns. There's a lot of information about

1:01:27

this tastes it's been going on for

1:01:29

years on his is to use a

1:01:31

county New York's most notorious unsolved case.

1:01:34

I think he. Signed it very

1:01:36

interesting again by the Martha lottery

1:01:38

Processed have agreed. Aims to drones

1:01:40

I suggest. You. Have heard that

1:01:42

too, so I see. Least

1:01:45

one other person is not more

1:01:47

have suggested so I know it's

1:01:49

on the list. Which. Need to

1:01:51

move it up because sounds like people really

1:01:53

wants is to. Do. The. Into

1:01:55

for news to. Use. His

1:01:57

from upstate New York. You.

1:02:00

Will hear a by say Upstate

1:02:02

I'm from upstate Ohio. I'm. From

1:02:05

Upstate you don't hear that Tsunami York

1:02:07

cannot and will hurting by sight of

1:02:09

from Upstate somewhere. Know people say they're

1:02:12

from Upper Michigan? Yeah, I've heard that.

1:02:14

But. Ups Dates. And

1:02:17

there may be some other states, but New

1:02:19

York is obviously we hear that eerie by

1:02:21

say, the from downstate New York. Know.

1:02:24

But. Nobody really wants to say the from Ohio

1:02:26

anyway. So. It's

1:02:28

where your ass from. Ohio makes no

1:02:30

difference, is offensive is always found that

1:02:33

interesting if that's you know. I'm assuming

1:02:35

they're trying to differentiate New York City.

1:02:37

Yes, And maybe it's because we don't

1:02:39

have like and a New York City.

1:02:42

Obviously, we don't have a big big.

1:02:44

City. Like that we have a number of

1:02:47

the. Medium. Size? Yeah, good

1:02:49

size cities. Effort to. Random

1:02:52

thought the popped in my head or as we. Doing.

1:02:54

This you know not all of them have to be

1:02:56

voice said enough he knew that are not. My.

1:02:59

Thoughts and guess I'm just messing with

1:03:01

Spy By the that's it for another

1:03:03

episode of True Crime all the time

1:03:05

and solves the for might get be

1:03:07

stay safe and keep your own time

1:03:09

Taking. He.