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Find Strictly Stalking wherever

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One.

1:58

you Hello

2:08

everyone and welcome to episode 314

2:10

of the True Crime All The Time Unsolved podcast.

2:13

I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always

2:15

is my partner in true crime,

2:17

Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you? Hey, I'm doing

2:19

good. How about yourself? I'm doing

2:21

very well. I have had a little bit of a rough

2:24

week with my

2:25

Maltese Bailey. You did. She

2:27

was sick for about three or four days, man. Wouldn't

2:30

eat. We had to take her to the vet multiple times

2:33

and now all of a sudden today she's perked

2:35

back up. She's biting my ankles and

2:37

everything. I don't know what it was. The

2:39

vet didn't know what it was. Just some type

2:42

of bug, I guess. Hey, let's go ahead and

2:44

give our Patreon shout outs. We had Courtney

2:46

C. Hey, Courtney. Victor Torres.

2:48

Hey, Torres. Lynn Davis jumped out at

2:50

her highest level. You're awesome, Davis. Annette Hollywood.

2:53

Hey, Hollywood. Arden Capozola.

2:55

Ah, Capozola. Maya Katzer.

2:58

What's going on, Katzer? Stacy Nokes. Hey,

3:00

Nokes. Tiffany Sloan. Hey, there's

3:02

Tiffany. Corinza McClure. Hey, Corinza.

3:05

Shauna Hobson. What's up, Hobson? Stacy

3:07

Stafford. Appreciate that, Stafford. Kat Upton

3:09

jumped out at her highest level. Awesome,

3:12

Upton. Joan Kirsten. Hey, Kirsten.

3:14

Kimberly Spray. What's up, Spragg? And

3:16

last but not least, Kerry Broussard. Broussard.

3:19

And then if we go back

3:21

into the vault.

3:22

This week we selected

3:24

Timothy McCouch. Way

3:26

to go. Yeah, thank you very much. We

3:28

had great PayPal donations from Em

3:30

Herrig. Thank you, Em. Jason

3:33

Ohanian. What's up, Jason? And

3:35

Hot Garbage, True Crime Edition.

3:38

That's by Nisha. She's a listener of the

3:40

show, but started her own podcast. Yeah, thanks, Nisha.

3:43

Yeah. So might want to check that out. Gibbs

3:45

right now on TCAT, we have

3:47

part one

3:48

of the Aaron Hernandez story.

3:50

You know, he was a great football

3:53

player. Sure. You got

3:55

drafted to the Patriots, kind

3:57

of broke out with them. Yeah. All

4:00

of a sudden, you know, started getting charged

4:02

with multiple murders and, you know,

4:05

essentially threw his life away. He had

4:07

everything going for him. He did. And

4:09

just threw it away

4:10

and killed multiple people in

4:12

the process. Good episode. Check

4:15

it out. Yeah. All right, buddy. I'm

4:19

ready. We are talking about the skeleton

4:21

brothers. Andrew Alexander

4:24

and Tanner skeleton spent Thanksgiving 2010

4:27

with their father is part of

4:30

a visitation agreement between

4:32

their parents who were in the process

4:34

of getting a divorce when their mother

4:36

went to pick them up the next day.

4:38

They were nowhere to be found in

4:40

the 12 years since the boys disappeared.

4:44

Their father has given different explanations

4:46

as to their whereabouts. The

4:49

skeleton brothers disappeared from their

4:51

father's home in Maritzi, Michigan.

4:54

At the time of their disappearance, Andrew

4:56

was nine years old.

4:58

Alexander was seven years old and

5:00

Tanner was five.

5:02

Their parents are John skeleton and

5:05

Tanya zoovers.

5:07

Tanya and John got married in 2002. They

5:10

had both been married before.

5:12

Tanya has two daughters from her previous

5:14

marriage and John has one daughter.

5:16

Tanya and John filed for bankruptcy

5:19

in 2003, but the case was

5:21

cleared later that year.

5:23

Andrew skeleton was born on November

5:25

20th, 2001. He would

5:27

be 21 years old today.

5:30

Alexander was born on November

5:32

4th, 2003.

5:34

He would be 19 years

5:36

old today. Tanner was born

5:38

on October 20th, 2005.

5:41

He would be 17. So we're talking about

5:43

some young kids at the time. Yeah. All

5:46

three boys under

5:48

the age of 10 and obviously

5:50

we're going to get into it, but we mentioned it

5:53

upfront. So mysterious

5:56

that their father has given

5:58

these. strange

6:00

and differing explanations as

6:03

to what happened to them. Speaking of

6:05

their father, John Skeleton worked as a long

6:07

haul trucker, but he was fired

6:09

in 2009 when he was convicted

6:12

of drunk driving. That will do it. Yeah.

6:14

I mean, you know,

6:16

being a long haul trucker driving

6:19

is your entire job. It's your livelihood.

6:21

So you would think you don't

6:24

want to endanger that livelihood.

6:26

You're not going to drink and drive, but obviously

6:29

he did and

6:31

he paid the price. He remained

6:33

unemployed for some time after this in 2009.

6:36

John also spent time in jail for failing

6:39

to pay child support to his

6:41

previous what? Well, if you're unemployed,

6:43

it's probably kind of hard to

6:45

make those payments, not to excuse it.

6:47

I'm just saying. Yeah. Obviously

6:49

it can be. If you don't have money coming

6:52

in, it's hard to pay that type of stuff.

6:55

In 1998, Tanya

6:57

pleaded guilty to misdemeanor fourth

6:59

degree criminal sexual conduct

7:01

for having sex with a 14

7:04

year old who worked for her and her husband.

7:06

Tanya was 32 years old at the time.

7:09

According to the Charlie project, Tanya

7:11

became a registered sex offender

7:14

after this. Her first husband filed

7:16

for divorce soon after she was charged.

7:19

Well, that would be a reason to get divorced. So,

7:21

I mean, you know, you mentioned it reason

7:23

for losing a trucker

7:25

job for John.

7:28

This is a reason for her

7:31

husband to divorce her. She

7:34

had sexual conduct with a 14

7:36

year old. She's 32

7:39

years old. So according to the Charlie

7:42

project, she had to register

7:45

as a sex offender, but

7:46

it was a little confusing because on the website,

7:50

it specifically states Tanya

7:52

was at one time

7:53

a registered sex offender. So I'm

7:56

not sure if that means she's

7:58

no longer a registered.

7:59

sex offender or

8:01

not. It's unclear. Either

8:03

way, that's nasty stuff. Absolutely.

8:06

John was accused of taking the boys

8:09

out of school in September 2010. He

8:12

allegedly said he was taking them to Florida

8:14

where his parents lived.

8:16

According to the Charlie Project, John

8:18

told the school they were going on vacation

8:21

but also implied they wouldn't be returning.

8:23

And the school may need to forward

8:26

their records.

8:28

Tanya got a call from the school

8:29

informing her that John took the boys

8:32

for a trip to Florida and said he didn't

8:34

know when they would be back. Tanya immediately

8:36

called the police. The police contacted

8:39

John and convinced him to bring them back before

8:42

he left the state.

8:43

I think there's a lot of divorced couples

8:45

that inform the school. If

8:49

the kid's other parent picks

8:51

the kids up, let me know. Oh,

8:55

that could be.

8:56

But let's talk about one of the parents

8:59

not informing the other parent. Yeah.

9:02

They're planning a trip. They're going to take

9:04

these kids out of school and take them to Florida. But

9:07

you're not going to let the mother know. Yeah,

9:09

there's

9:09

something fishy about that, right? When that

9:11

happens. Well, so much so

9:14

that to the point that she immediately called

9:16

the police. So there's no doubt

9:18

she was not aware of this. And it took

9:21

her by surprise.

9:22

She was shocked and

9:24

at the same time worried.

9:26

According to NBC, Tanya was awarded

9:29

custody after filing for a

9:31

divorce on September 13th, 2010. The

9:34

Charlie Project reported that Tanya said

9:36

she did this to secure

9:38

custody and prevent John from taking

9:41

the children out of the area.

9:43

She claimed she and John were in counseling

9:45

with hope for reconciliation.

9:48

Tanya had exclusive custody of the

9:50

boys, but she and John negotiated

9:53

a visitation agreement on September

9:54

27th. John filed

9:57

a motion for custody saying

9:59

that time.

9:59

was a registered sex

10:02

offender. Well, you had to wonder

10:04

if that was gonna come back and bite her. Well,

10:06

I think it does in many

10:09

ways, right? Harder

10:11

to get a job. It precludes

10:13

you from doing a

10:15

lot of things, living X amount

10:18

of distance from a school,

10:21

or a playground, or whatever.

10:24

But here in this case, you know, it seems

10:26

as though he's using it as ammunition

10:28

against her that, hey,

10:31

she's a registered sex offender, she

10:34

shouldn't have custody of these boys.

10:36

Right.

10:37

Andrew, Alexander, and Tanner were

10:39

last seen on Thanksgiving Day, 2010. The

10:42

boys spent the holiday with John and

10:45

Marency, Michigan. The last time

10:48

anyone besides John Skelton saw

10:50

his sons was around 5 p.m.

10:53

on November 25th.

10:55

The boys were last seen in the backyard

10:57

of the house. Alexander

11:00

was last seen wearing a gray shirt

11:02

and black pajama pants. He

11:04

is described as a Caucasian male

11:06

with brown hair and brown eyes. He has scars

11:09

on his chin and near his hairline and

11:11

wears eyeglasses. Andrew

11:13

was last seen wearing brown pajamas

11:16

with orange trim. He is described

11:18

as a Caucasian male with brown hair

11:20

and brown eyes. Tanner was last

11:23

seen wearing camouflage pajama

11:25

pants and a Scooby-Doo shirt. He's

11:27

described as a Caucasian male with

11:30

blonde hair and blue eyes. On

11:32

November 26th, Tanya was

11:34

waiting to pick up the boys. They were

11:37

excited to go shopping for fan gear

11:39

for a high school football game. John

11:41

stopped communicating with her about

11:44

pickup details for the afternoon.

11:46

So she drove to his house and

11:49

found that he wasn't home.

11:51

John was in the ER, receiving

11:53

treatment for a broken ankle.

11:55

He told the hospital staff that he injured

11:57

himself when he attempted

12:00

to end his life earlier that day.

12:02

He said he fell from a rope around

12:04

the second floor banister.

12:07

No one had seen the boys since

12:09

the day before. That's a interesting

12:12

piece of information. Yeah.

12:15

I think that statement coupled

12:17

with the fact that no one had seen the boys, right?

12:20

That on its own is, is worrisome.

12:23

Sure. But then you add in

12:25

this statement by John and

12:27

you have to imagine.

12:30

The concern that Tanya

12:32

is experiencing. She's supposed

12:34

to pick the boys up. She can't get

12:36

ahold of John. She goes to his

12:38

house. They're not home.

12:40

Okay. They could be out, but

12:43

obviously once she finds out some of this

12:45

other information,

12:46

she's going to be very alarmed

12:49

as she should be.

12:50

The police were able to enter John's

12:52

house. Tanya described the

12:55

state of the house to the national center

12:57

for missing exploited children.

13:00

She said he completely destroyed

13:02

the inside of his house. If it could be

13:05

broken, it

13:05

was broken. If it could be cut,

13:08

it had been cut. You could visualize

13:10

that scene. I mean, there would

13:13

have been nothing left intact

13:15

intact. So what does that mean? You

13:18

had no intentions ever coming back to that

13:20

place, right? Or you were

13:22

so enraged that

13:25

you took it out on the house. But

13:28

what does that mean for the missing boys? And

13:30

what is Tanya thinking once, you

13:32

know, she sees the scene

13:35

of, of the inside of this home. She

13:37

sees that. Then John says

13:40

that he tried to end his life.

13:42

It'd be a nightmare for her. And Amber

13:44

alert was quickly issued for the boys

13:47

and the police work to analyze John's

13:50

phone records.

13:51

John was first hospitalized at a

13:53

general hospital and then moved

13:55

to a psychiatric facility in Ohio.

13:58

He was changing his story.

13:59

what happened to his children.

14:02

At first, he said the boys were

14:04

with friends and would be back soon. Then

14:07

he said he gave them to a woman

14:09

and then said he gave them to what

14:12

he called an underground organization.

14:15

John said he feared that Tanya

14:18

was abusing the boys. However,

14:20

investigators have stated that they found no

14:22

evidence of abuse. Tanya

14:25

maintain that she never abused or

14:27

assaulted her children. According

14:28

to the Washington

14:31

Post. But I just want to go through these

14:33

stories. They're with friends.

14:36

I gave them to a woman. I

14:38

gave them to an underground organization.

14:41

We're all over the map here. And he's saying

14:44

he's doing this because he wants to protect the kids. I'll

14:46

do anything for the kids. I just want

14:48

to make sure you don't have them is what

14:51

it sounds like. Yeah, because he was afraid

14:53

she was abusing them. Now, John

14:55

also claimed that he wanted the boys out

14:58

of the house when he ended his life. So

15:00

he asked a woman named Joanne

15:02

Taylor to take them to time. He

15:05

said he met Joanne several years ago

15:07

and they had an online relationship.

15:10

John claimed Joanne was married to a

15:12

pastor named Mark, drove a

15:14

white or silver minivan and either

15:17

lived in Hillsdale, Michigan

15:19

or Jackson County,

15:20

Michigan. So now we have this mysterious

15:23

woman.

15:24

He's giving some kind

15:26

of murky details. You're not going to be

15:28

able to make much out of them. No, she

15:30

may have lived over here. Maybe it was over there.

15:32

I don't really recall.

15:34

She drives a white or silver minivan. Well,

15:36

how many people do?

15:37

You know, probably a lot. Now

15:40

being married to a pastor named Mark,

15:42

could you start to narrow

15:44

it down based on that and

15:47

these locations? That would be helpful.

15:49

Well, if he's providing accurate information,

15:52

then it might be helpful. The phone record

15:54

showed that John was in Marincie

15:57

early on November 26. He

15:59

then went to office.

15:59

Ohio. John's phone pinged in

16:02

Ohio, 20 miles from his home.

16:04

The phone was then shut off and pinged

16:07

in Marincy two hours

16:09

and 15 minutes after he left

16:11

Michigan.

16:12

So obviously he's

16:14

in Michigan, but he's very close to the border.

16:16

Yeah. But I think you have to really look

16:18

at this gap in time. You know, at some point

16:21

he turns the phone off so

16:23

they don't know exactly where

16:26

the phone was.

16:27

What they know is that two hours

16:30

and 15 minutes after he left his

16:32

home,

16:34

he's back there and the phone is pinged.

16:36

So what happened during that time? Well,

16:38

we know he was in Ohio at

16:41

the beginning. And then after that, the phone

16:44

was shut off.

16:45

Detective Lieutenant Jeremy Brewer of

16:47

the Michigan state police told the NC

16:50

MEC around 4.30 AM. The

16:52

phone started tracking from Marincy

16:55

going Southwest into Ohio around 5 0 1 to 5 0

17:00

4 AM was the last time it pinged

17:02

before being turned off around 20 miles

17:05

away from Marincy in

17:07

holiday city, Ohio.

17:09

It turned back on at 6 45 AM back

17:11

at his house in Marincy. So

17:16

again, it's this gap in time

17:19

that police are really interested

17:21

in.

17:22

My assumption is that they're worried

17:24

that he did something to the boys

17:26

during this span

17:29

of time and turned his phone

17:31

off because he didn't want to be tracked. And

17:34

so if he did and he

17:36

doesn't give up the information, how

17:38

are they going to find them? Well, that's true, right?

17:41

All they know is the last location

17:43

before it went off in what time he got

17:45

back to Michigan. So

17:47

you have to figure out, well, from that,

17:50

how far could he go? How and still

17:52

make it back by 6 40. Yeah,

17:55

which they could do. It's about an hour

17:58

and 30 minutes or so. So,

18:00

but you, how many different directions? So

18:02

many. So many different directions

18:04

that it's going to be tough.

18:06

Tanya told the NCMEC that

18:09

there's a lot of wooded areas near

18:12

the Ohio Turnpike and

18:13

those became areas of interest. According

18:16

to the Charlie Project, John's Blue

18:19

Dodge Caravan, license plate

18:21

9JQ H93 was on the

18:24

Ohio Turnpike between 4 and 7

18:27

a.m. on November 26th. The

18:30

police asked anyone who saw the vehicle

18:32

to come forward. Many people in the

18:35

community participated in the search

18:37

for the boys.

18:38

Local schools offered their buses

18:41

to drive volunteers to search

18:43

locations. I think communities are going to come

18:46

out for this, right? Three boys

18:48

missing. Yeah, under the age of 10. We

18:51

see it a lot where people

18:54

are willing to give up their time, right? Volunteer

18:56

to search. I don't know that we've

18:58

ever seen where a

19:00

school has offered up their buses

19:03

or local schools, multiple

19:05

schools. Searchers looked along

19:07

US 20 in Northern Ohio,

19:10

Cambridge Township Fire Chief Scott

19:12

Damon said a crew was searching east

19:15

of Pioneer, Ohio, 12

19:17

miles from Marincie. 50 people

19:20

searched the Lazy River Resort Campground

19:23

in Pioneer. Owner Doug Roland

19:25

told NBC that he was told cell

19:28

towers in the area carried calls

19:30

from John's phone. The searchers

19:32

checked the whole resort and looked through the

19:35

windows of campers that were parked there

19:37

for the winter.

19:38

On November 29th,

19:39

the police said that they

19:42

don't believe

19:43

John's story that he gave his kids

19:45

to the woman he met online.

19:47

Police Chief Larry Weeks said, we

19:50

can confirm that there's no

19:52

established relationship

19:53

between he and the person he described

19:56

as Joanne Taylor. Now

19:58

Weeks didn't name John is a suspect

20:01

in his son's disappearance, but said they

20:03

hadn't ruled him out. Well, I would hope

20:05

not. No, he was the last one that

20:08

had them. And he's given all

20:10

kinds of different stories as to where

20:12

they might be.

20:13

I go back to this, the last

20:15

story of giving them to

20:18

an underground organization, right?

20:20

Just think about

20:22

what type of underground organization

20:24

he could be talking about. In your mind

20:27

really starts to go to some dark place

20:29

here does.

20:30

You know, you, you could go to like

20:33

a sex trafficking ring or,

20:35

you know, something like that, a pedophile ring. It

20:38

can get really dark very quickly.

20:41

John Skeleton was released from a medical

20:43

facility on November 30th. He

20:46

was arrested by the FBI after

20:48

his release and was charged

20:50

with three counts of parental kidnapping

20:53

at a hearing in December, 2010.

20:56

John said his kids were with an

20:58

organization.

20:59

He refused to name this organization

21:01

at first, but he later called

21:03

it United Foster

21:05

Outreach and Underground Sanctuaries.

21:08

Okay. It's very specific,

21:10

but the police have come out and said,

21:13

they don't believe that these groups exist.

21:15

So either they exist, but

21:18

aren't well known, aren't known about, or

21:20

not known about. Yeah. They're under the radar

21:23

or John's making it up. Yeah.

21:25

And they checked into it and they couldn't find any record

21:27

of it.

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24:41

On

24:55

February 1, 2011, the police said that the disappearances had turned

24:57

into homicide

25:01

investigations.

25:11

The Livingston County Daily Press and

25:13

Argus reported that

25:15

Police Chief Larry Weeks said he did

25:17

not believe the boys were alive and

25:19

told reporters, we've seen

25:22

false hope continue to grow.

25:24

Okay that's rough. It is. Anytime

25:27

that a law enforcement official

25:29

comes out and says we don't

25:32

believe they're still alive.

25:33

But I think he's being

25:35

honest. Now he may be right,

25:38

he may be wrong. But these are

25:40

pretty young kids. They're not out

25:42

in the wild fending for themselves.

25:45

So either they're with

25:47

someone

25:49

who is taking care of them

25:51

and they're still alive or they're

25:53

not alive. That's a pretty big statement

25:55

to make. It is and I think it's hard

25:57

for the family to hear.

25:59

February 8th, 2011,

26:02

John Skelton did a phone interview with

26:05

the news outlet WDIV

26:07

Local Four and said he gave

26:09

his children to a foster family

26:11

at a JD's truck stop in

26:14

Niles.

26:15

John said they're with the family right

26:17

now that you know it's not

26:19

me. I think that's the only disservice

26:21

that I've done to the boys. I haven't

26:24

hurt them. Well, if it's true,

26:26

he's made decisions that

26:28

weren't his to make. Alone.

26:31

Alone. No, absolutely not. Right?

26:33

No, he's claiming that

26:36

he's trying to save them from

26:38

this abuse by

26:40

Tanya, which police could find no evidence

26:43

of. Now, if he came out with

26:45

that story and that story

26:47

alone in the beginning, would that make a

26:49

difference? I think once you tell three or

26:52

four different stories,

26:53

your credibility is out the

26:55

window. Definitely diminishes. So

26:58

now you've given them to a

27:00

family at a JD's truck stop.

27:03

Well, how did you meet a foster family? How'd

27:05

you set that up? It

27:06

wasn't a chance meeting at a truck stop.

27:09

Right. But you also didn't go through

27:11

an agency to

27:13

have these boys placed in a foster

27:16

home. It's just the information

27:19

he gives is so inconsistent. Well,

27:21

it just doesn't make sense. Right.

27:23

And I think that, you know, the troubling thing is

27:25

so

27:26

far to that point, police

27:28

haven't been able to confirm pretty

27:31

much anything that he said. None

27:33

of his stories have checked out. According

27:36

to M live, he feared

27:38

the boys were being abused by Tanya. So

27:40

he reached out to a rescue organization

27:44

who he said was run by

27:46

either the Amish Mennonite

27:49

or some reorganized Mormons.

27:52

Okay. That's kind of across the board.

27:54

All over the place. Right. John said that

27:56

the group leaders used fake names

27:58

like Joanne versus

27:59

Virgil, Sue, and Elijah, he

28:02

claimed the group leaders led him to believe

28:05

he was giving them the boys for

28:07

a trial run sleepover.

28:10

What in the wide, wide

28:12

world of sports is going on

28:15

here? Yeah, I mean, none of it makes any sense, right?

28:17

No.

28:18

And why he would think anybody would believe

28:20

this story. And what

28:22

is a trial run sleepover?

28:25

If you're gonna give the kids to somebody so they can be safe,

28:28

why are you having a trial sleepover? Well,

28:31

if the sleepover doesn't go good, you're gonna take them back and

28:33

put them back in the environment you didn't want them in. Yeah,

28:36

I just don't get it.

28:37

When asked why the FBI could

28:39

not find this group, John said, it's

28:42

an organization that knows

28:44

what it's doing.

28:46

We covered our tracks well.

28:48

John said the group misled him,

28:50

but for right now, this is a good place

28:52

for the boys. The boys are better

28:55

off with their foster family

28:57

right now. Look, I'm sure there's organizations

28:59

out there that go underneath the radar.

29:02

That actually do help people or are bad?

29:05

Probably both. Both? Yeah. Probably. Could

29:08

they be off the radar from the FBI?

29:11

A little tougher. A little tougher, but it could

29:13

probably be done for a period of time.

29:16

I just think when you tell

29:18

so many different stories,

29:20

and not one of

29:23

them is verifiable,

29:25

okay? At some point,

29:28

you cannot be believed.

29:29

Number one, because you're telling too many stories.

29:32

And so all of them can't be true because they're all

29:34

different, and then none

29:37

of them can be verified. Now, if

29:39

part of your plan is to confuse

29:41

everybody, then he's doing a great job. Yeah,

29:44

because I'm confused.

29:46

And I'm sure the listeners are confused too, because

29:49

he's just talking nonsense, circles.

29:51

He's talking in circles almost.

29:53

On July 28th, 2011, John Skelton pleaded no contest.

29:58

The three counts have been lost. in prison

30:01

meant in exchange for prosecutors

30:03

dropping a parental kidnapping charge on

30:06

September 15th of that year,

30:09

skeleton was sentenced to 10 to 15 years

30:11

in prison

30:12

for unlawful imprisonment.

30:14

And basically police came out and said that

30:17

this would give them time

30:19

to pursue murder charges.

30:22

Police chief Larry weak said, I

30:24

believe that John skeleton murdered those boys

30:27

according to M live.

30:29

Well, he's got them right where he needs them, right? He's not

30:31

going to go anywhere. Yeah. And we've talked about

30:33

that before. They don't have

30:35

the

30:36

evidence at that point in time

30:38

to charge him with murder,

30:39

but they

30:42

had enough evidence to get him on

30:44

these unlawful imprisonment charges 10 to 15

30:49

years,

30:50

even if, you know, he comes up for parole,

30:52

he's going to be in there for a while,

30:54

a plenty of time

30:56

to

30:57

either try to find the boys or try to

30:59

find evidence that John harmed

31:01

the boy.

31:01

Yeah. And maybe why he's in prison will give him time

31:04

to think about it. Maybe he might even talk

31:06

to his one of his roomies,

31:09

one of his cellies. Yeah. But John

31:11

even told the judge that he gave his sons

31:13

to the organization because he wanted

31:16

to protect them from Tonya. He didn't

31:18

know where they were taken. He also said

31:20

he had cried every day since

31:22

he last saw them.

31:24

And he would have done things differently

31:26

had the system not failed him.

31:29

So if you believe this, then he

31:31

truly believed that their mother

31:34

was doing improper things with the boys

31:37

abusing them, using them. And

31:39

he felt, well, if the

31:41

system's not going to do anything, cause they couldn't find

31:44

evidence of this abuse, that I've got

31:46

to take things in my own hand as their father

31:49

and knowing that people will continue to come after

31:51

me. If I have them, I'm

31:53

going to hand them over to somebody. Just

31:55

hope that they are raised

31:58

better and never found by her. That's

32:00

what he's saying, right? Yeah. Yeah.

32:03

If everything he's saying is actually true, I

32:06

don't know if he can blame the guy. Yeah, I

32:08

think that's a pretty big if though.

32:10

I really do. What I'm

32:13

getting, the vibe that I'm getting

32:15

is that, you know,

32:18

he's

32:18

in a sense trying to get

32:20

back at Tonya

32:23

and whether that's

32:25

by giving them to some

32:27

underground organization, whether,

32:29

you know, he killed them,

32:32

for some reason I'm just getting that vibe that

32:34

it's like a revenge against

32:36

her. Because how many explanations

32:39

are there? Either

32:41

it's what you said that

32:42

he believes that, whether it was true

32:45

or not, or he

32:47

wanted to get back at her. He wanted to hurt

32:49

her.

32:50

If he did kill them, I mean,

32:52

this is the perfect cover for him, right?

32:54

The kids were in danger. I tried to save them. I'm handing

32:57

them over to some organization. I don't

32:59

know where they're at. I'll never know where they're at.

33:01

I don't make any excuses for it. Do

33:03

what you gotta do to me. I'll serve my 15 years

33:06

and be out.

33:07

So be it. I will say this, it's

33:09

a better cover than

33:11

other people have tried to make. Right.

33:15

In many cases that we've

33:17

covered because if they can't

33:19

find the boys, how do they move

33:22

forward?

33:22

How do you convince a jury

33:24

that John Skelton killed his kids

33:27

when you don't even know for sure that they're

33:30

not alive? I think it's a hard sell.

33:32

But no doubt, authorities are

33:34

coming out and saying

33:36

that they believe John Skelton

33:38

murdered the kids.

33:40

Judge Margaret Ngo called the recommended

33:42

sentence of four to 12 years, grossly

33:45

inadequate. She told John, for months,

33:48

I have asked you to return.

33:50

Andrew, Alexander

33:52

and Tanner, you have refused to

33:54

answer me truthfully. I have asked you to

33:56

tell me where the children are located. You

33:59

have refused.

33:59

telling one conflicting story after

34:02

another to explain their circumstances

34:05

since they were last seen.

34:06

Your explanations have been ridiculous.

34:09

I'll be at more sad than anything

34:12

else. Okay. I like this judge

34:14

because I think she's hitting the nail right on the head. She's

34:17

saying what everybody's thinking. Yes.

34:19

You're not telling us the truth. Every

34:22

story you tell is conflicting.

34:24

She even calls them, you know, ridiculous.

34:27

And she's got this recommended sentence

34:30

of four to 12 years and she's just

34:33

coming out and saying it. That's, that's

34:35

not going to cut it. Right.

34:37

Now we know he ends up with 10 to 15.

34:39

So she must've thought the 10 to 15 was more fair

34:41

than the four to 12. Yeah.

34:46

Yeah, absolutely.

34:48

And my thought is a lot of this is based

34:50

on the fact that

34:52

in her mind, she's probably thinking

34:54

that what he did was much more

34:56

than just unlawful imprisonment.

35:00

Now she can't prove

35:02

that prosecutors haven't charged him with more than

35:05

that, but she's basically

35:08

giving him more than the recommended sentence because

35:11

she thinks he did more.

35:13

That's what I'm taking from it. Yeah, I agree with

35:15

you. And

35:16

it was said that

35:18

what was taken into consideration during

35:21

sensing was the fact that John tried

35:23

to take the boys in September. He did

35:25

right down to Florida. Right. So

35:27

when you look back at that,

35:30

now with

35:32

the context of

35:34

them having gone missing,

35:35

does it mean

35:38

something a little bit more? And I

35:40

would say most people would look at it and say, yeah, but

35:42

we set it up front, right? Years later,

35:45

the skeleton brothers still have

35:47

not been found.

35:48

W D I V local for red

35:50

transcripts from the divorce and custody

35:52

hearing after the boys disappeared.

35:55

John represented himself.

35:57

The judge granted sole legal and physical.

35:59

custody of the children to Tanya

36:02

once they were available to her.

36:05

So how strange is that? The

36:08

boys are gone. Nobody knows where

36:10

they are, but

36:12

John and Tanya still have to go

36:14

through this divorce and custody here. So

36:17

she wins custody of the boys,

36:19

but she doesn't have the boys. But if the boys

36:21

are ever found, she'll get them. Right. The

36:23

judge said right now they have

36:26

not seemed to be available to either

36:28

of you.

36:29

John responded. That's right.

36:31

And if she is granted custody, they

36:33

won't be available to either of us.

36:36

Okay.

36:37

Now I think you can make a number of different things

36:39

out of that, but to me, it sounds

36:42

foreboding. It does. Almost

36:45

as if he's saying she's

36:48

going to do something to them or I'm going to do something

36:50

to them. Well, I'm sure the judge does

36:52

not like his comment. No, probably

36:55

not.

36:56

John told the judge that he signed the

36:58

papers giving Tanya custody under

37:01

duress. John asked Tanya

37:03

if she believed he knew where the

37:05

boys were. She said, yes. He

37:07

asked if she thought they were safe

37:09

and she answered no

37:11

because they're not with either

37:13

parent. I'm also trying to imagine

37:16

what it would be like for Tanya

37:18

to sit across from John in this

37:20

hearing with it in her mind

37:23

that he's done something really bad to her

37:26

three sons. But yeah, it has to answer some of his

37:28

questions because he's his own attorney.

37:30

Yeah. Yeah. That must've been

37:32

excruciating for her.

37:34

On December 14th, 2017, the

37:37

Michigan state police confirmed that a

37:39

link was being explored

37:41

between a box containing the remains

37:43

of three children found in Missoula,

37:46

Montana, and the missing skeleton

37:48

brothers.

37:49

The box was found in a shed in

37:51

September, 2017 by a cleaning crew. The

37:55

box contained the bone fragments

37:57

and teeth

37:58

of three children.

37:59

The remains were first taken to an anthropologist

38:03

at the University of Montana who

38:05

determined they were modern bones belonging

38:08

to three children. Testing determined

38:10

that the children were two to four

38:13

years old, five to eight years old,

38:15

and six to 10 years old.

38:17

The cause of death was unknown and

38:19

the remains were sent to the national missing

38:22

and unidentified person system

38:24

for additional testing. Well,

38:27

if you're Tonya,

38:28

you are scared at the

38:30

results of this. Well, I think, especially

38:32

when you look at the ages, the ages

38:35

seem to line up

38:37

with the three skeleton

38:39

boys. Earlier in December,

38:42

Montana law enforcement were looking

38:44

to interview a person of interest,

38:46

a city residential housing code

38:49

compliance officer told the police

38:51

about a man who illegally

38:53

occupied the backyard of the

38:55

property last year.

38:57

The man lived in a camper with access

38:59

to the garage and shed.

39:01

The inspector said she felt like the

39:03

man had a surveillance camera

39:05

to alert him when there were visitors.

39:09

All right, sounds like a guy you might wanna

39:11

talk to. Maybe.

39:12

In February, 2018, the Missoula

39:15

County coroner's office announced that

39:17

the remains did not belong to

39:19

the skeleton brothers. According to

39:22

CBS Detroit, the bone samples

39:25

were historical and archeological.

39:28

In origin, meaning they

39:30

were over 99 years old. Some

39:32

of the teeth appeared to be from a child of

39:35

Asian-derived Amerindian

39:39

ancestry. Well, it sounds like

39:41

the first initial reports, that

39:44

person really got this wrong. Yeah, because

39:46

they said they were, now what does

39:48

modern mean? Well, that's true.

39:51

Modern meaning within the last

39:53

hundred years, the last 200, I

39:56

don't know. I think the way I look

39:58

at modern, I'm thinking. It's in the

40:00

last 30, 40 years, right? Yeah.

40:03

But in this world, maybe modern is

40:05

a few hundred years old. Yes.

40:07

It could be quite a span of

40:09

time, meaning that they're not a

40:12

thousand years old. Yeah. Or, or

40:14

whatever the report stated, given

40:16

the limited amount of bone specimens

40:19

recovered and submitted to the lab, additional

40:22

information, confirming the stacks,

40:24

stature, or ancestry of

40:26

the three remains is inconclusive.

40:29

John responded to the discovery of the

40:31

remains telling local for when

40:33

I saw it on the news, I just rolled my

40:36

eyes. Yeah. Those are not my

40:38

boys.

40:39

I feel like every time this man opens

40:41

his mouth,

40:42

he says something

40:44

either really dumb or really strange.

40:47

Sometimes both. Or sometimes

40:50

both.

40:51

Either way, it kind of makes you scratch

40:53

your head. Every time you hear what he,

40:55

you know, has said, John said

40:57

that inmates heard about the discovery

40:59

and called him a child killer and monster

41:02

and promised to retaliate against

41:05

him. Yeah.

41:05

I'm sure that wasn't going to go over good in prison.

41:07

No, no. I mean, he's

41:10

in there technically for what?

41:12

Unlawful parental kidnapping,

41:15

right? But if they even

41:17

get a whip that he's

41:20

a child killer or a suspected

41:22

child killer, he could be in real

41:25

trouble. Yeah. It'll get shanked or

41:27

shaved or both.

41:29

On February 5th, 2018, local

41:32

for released an article about

41:34

an exclusive 2017 interview

41:37

with John from prison.

41:38

John talked with local fours, Sandra

41:42

Ali,

41:42

who was the first person to visit him

41:44

in prison. W D I V reporter

41:47

Sandra Ali wrote to John skeleton

41:49

in July, 2017. John

41:52

eventually responded and they continued

41:55

correspondence in January, 2018.

41:59

After the.

41:59

of the bones. John wrote,

42:02

I am still processing all

42:04

the negative stories about me on

42:06

the news.

42:07

A few weeks ago, I'm not ready

42:09

for an interview. Those news stories

42:12

really jeopardized my safety

42:14

and quite a few people no longer

42:16

speak to me. Oh, he lost some of his

42:18

friends. Sounds like it. Rough

42:20

day for him.

42:21

However, he eventually agreed to a visit

42:24

with Sandra.

42:26

John said he gave the boys to two women

42:28

and a man in his sixties.

42:30

They were going to live on a farm in Ohio

42:33

after he made arrangements with the

42:36

underground sanctuary. He

42:38

told the boys they would have a better life with

42:40

a new family. John claimed that

42:43

people from the underground sanctuary

42:45

had been to the house three or four times. Sandra

42:48

asked John several times about

42:50

the group. He said, Sandra, I already told

42:53

you, I told you their names before it's

42:55

the underground sanctuary.

42:57

When she asked where they were from, he

43:00

said they had ties to Pennsylvania

43:02

and he knew they took the boys to

43:04

a farm on the Ohio, Indiana

43:07

border. Okay. It's a little scary. Yeah.

43:10

We're not very far from the

43:12

Ohio, Indiana border from where

43:15

we sit right here. So this

43:17

plays on a version of a story he's

43:19

already told, right? He's mentioned

43:21

this kind of underground organization,

43:23

but how easy would it be to

43:26

just make up a name? The underground

43:28

sanctuary. It'd be really easy, you

43:30

know, it'd be easy to tell the story he told too,

43:32

right? He was trying to protect them.

43:35

He had to get them placed with this organization

43:38

so that they would have a good life because

43:41

the authorities back at home

43:43

weren't going to protect the kids. Well, so,

43:47

you know, one of the things that ran through my mind was

43:50

why does he have to go

43:51

underground? But then, you know,

43:54

I think what he would say is that,

43:57

and he did say the system failed me. Right.

43:59

So he came. go to

44:01

a legitimate organization

44:03

because they're just going to contact the

44:06

police right and the

44:08

boys are going to end up back with their mother

44:11

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47:03

According to Local 4, John spent

47:05

most of his sentence in segregation and was

47:07

transferred to protective custody

47:10

in September 2017. John told reporter

47:12

Sandra Ali about his children, I

47:16

miss their voices.

47:17

He said that on the Wednesday before

47:19

Thanksgiving, he made fried chicken and

47:21

cake for the boys

47:23

for Andrew's birthday. They ate dinner

47:25

and watched a movie before bed at 10

47:28

p.m. On Thanksgiving, a

47:30

van came to the house to take the children.

47:32

He said

47:33

he regrets giving them away.

47:36

John mentioned that he gave the boys

47:38

to an Amish group. According

47:39

to Local 4, Amish people

47:42

live in Michigan, Ohio, Indiana,

47:44

and Pennsylvania.

47:45

Local 4 visited an Amish bakery

47:48

and spoke to a woman who had read news stories

47:50

in the paper about the boys. She

47:52

said that she didn't remember that John claimed

47:55

to have given his kids to the Amish, but

47:57

if someone brought children, the Amish community

47:59

would be able to take them.

47:59

community would take them in.

48:01

She said, I think they would

48:03

call the police or someone they would,

48:06

it's not like they would hide them.

48:08

You know, we live in Ohio. We do. There

48:11

are quite a number of Amish people.

48:13

Yeah. In certain parts

48:15

of, of the state. And what

48:17

she's saying sounds legitimate.

48:20

They might take these kids in there, care

48:23

for them. Sure.

48:24

But I can't imagine that they wouldn't figure out

48:26

how to get word to the word

48:28

that, Hey, somebody dropped these kids off.

48:31

They, they have to

48:32

have parents out there somewhere.

48:35

They have to have someone who's looking for them. Yeah.

48:37

I mean, could they be a rogue group?

48:39

Maybe, maybe. Yeah. There

48:42

are, I mean, there are underground societies

48:44

that we probably don't know about. Right. That

48:46

are scary that,

48:48

or maybe they try to help. I don't know.

48:51

Or some that think they're doing

48:53

the right thing because

48:55

they only have part of the story. Yeah, that

48:57

could be true.

48:59

Tanya Zuver spoke to people after

49:01

John's February statements and said, my

49:03

initial thought is what he is saying

49:06

is still more lies. He's had six

49:08

years to perfect this story before

49:11

agreeing to meet with a reporter.

49:13

Now it wasn't much of a story.

49:15

I don't think he needed six years to hone

49:17

that one. It

49:20

wasn't grapes of wrath. No,

49:22

it was not. You know, wasn't Steinbeck

49:25

or anything like that. But I

49:27

get what Tanya saying

49:29

in her mind.

49:31

I think she has to believe that every

49:33

word that comes out of this man's mouth

49:36

is an absolute lie.

49:38

The police have said they don't believe me.

49:40

Right. The FBI has said they can't corroborate

49:43

his stories. I'm not sure why anybody

49:46

would, would believe him. Now, does that mean he's 100%

49:49

lying? I can't say that.

49:53

You just think there might be like another family

49:55

member or somebody

49:57

that he can fight it with.

50:00

or the kids maybe confide

50:02

it with besides their dad

50:05

about the abuse. We talked

50:07

earlier about how old these

50:09

kids are now. Right. So

50:12

I think maybe at the end of the episode,

50:14

we'll talk about

50:15

if they were given over, wouldn't

50:18

they be old enough now to come

50:20

forward? Yeah, at some point, right, over

50:22

the last X amount of years. Or

50:25

right now. Or right now. Because they're

50:27

of an age where some

50:29

of them are adults.

50:31

At one point, John claimed he

50:33

was confronted by someone who allegedly

50:36

knew where his sons were. John Skelton

50:39

told investigators that a man named Mo's

50:41

Gingrich would help find the boys

50:43

a new home.

50:44

Apparently, Gingrich visited John

50:46

in prison to say,

50:48

he didn't know who the boys were. And

50:51

Gingrich grew up in the Amish community.

50:53

He left in 2002 and apparently started

50:56

an underground

50:58

railroad for Amish children who

51:00

wanted to leave. He became

51:03

sort of a TV personality and

51:05

appeared on shows like Jimmy Kimmel Live

51:07

and Live with Regis and Kelly. Investigators

51:11

told him that John Skelton mentioned his

51:13

name.

51:13

Gingrich told local Ford,

51:15

I had two different routes I could take. I

51:18

could hide under a rock and let this guy

51:20

control my life. Or I could do

51:22

what I'm doing.

51:23

Set out to prove I'm innocent. I have

51:25

nothing to hide. Gingrich said

51:27

that he visited John in prison that he

51:30

told John, I want to talk

51:32

to you about your three boys. You said

51:34

your boys were given to an unlisted

51:36

adoption agency. That

51:38

agency sent them down the line to me.

51:41

I want you to know, Mr. Skelton, I never

51:43

did receive those boys.

51:44

Not only that, I never heard of them

51:47

until six months ago.

51:49

John said that someone gave him a photo,

51:51

but Gingrich thinks John saw him

51:53

on TV

51:54

and decided to use him as

51:57

an alibi.

51:58

So when John said someone visited him. and

52:00

said, I know who your boys are. Well,

52:02

this guy is saying, John's lying. That's

52:04

not exactly how it went down. He

52:07

probably saw me on TV, thought, okay,

52:09

I'm going to use this guy as my next

52:12

scapegoat.

52:13

And is that too hard to believe?

52:15

I

52:15

mean, this is a man who has told a number

52:18

of different stories about what

52:20

has happened to his children. In 2019,

52:24

Detective Lieutenant Jeremy Brewer of

52:26

the state police told Local 4,

52:28

we have went to the ends of the earth to

52:31

investigate anything related

52:33

to this underground organization. And

52:35

there's been no validity to what

52:37

he's told us in that regard.

52:39

So to me, they just keep calling

52:41

BS on his

52:44

story or stories. Well, it's

52:46

either BS or this organization is

52:49

so good at staying off the radar.

52:51

I mean, they are the best. Yeah,

52:54

they're so well hidden that nobody

52:56

knows anything about them. But if they're so well

52:58

hidden,

52:59

how did he find them? That's a good question.

53:02

Right? Yeah, on Craigslist?

53:04

Yeah. And in an advertisement

53:07

on the dark? I don't know. I mean, if he had to find

53:10

them, and they're out there for other people

53:12

to find that are in need of their services.

53:14

You would think the FBI or the police would be able to

53:16

find them. That's a great point. John's

53:19

family has started to doubt his story. William

53:22

Skeleton told Local 4, he's hiding

53:24

information.

53:25

I kind of got a speculated idea

53:27

of what it is. And basically, I told him it's

53:30

time to put the whole story out there, not

53:32

just bits and pieces that are probably

53:34

the truth, perceived to be the truth.

53:37

But you've got to put the whole story out there.

53:39

In 2019, a new

53:41

tip led investigators to

53:43

a pond in Ohio.

53:44

The police said the tip was credible because

53:47

the information matched up with what detectives

53:50

already knew.

53:51

The pond was located in an area

53:53

the police labeled the

53:55

hot zone. So my

53:57

thought is back to our earlier conversation.

54:00

They

54:00

had this window of time.

54:03

So they knew that he could only

54:05

travel so far

54:07

in any one direction

54:10

and then head back or travel

54:12

a certain distance and circle around,

54:15

but they had to have at least a radius. Right.

54:17

That they, they knew he

54:19

couldn't have gone past that.

54:21

And this is the hot zone. And

54:23

this was in the hot zone. Now

54:26

the hot zone could have been narrowed

54:29

down maybe based on

54:31

information that we don't have local

54:34

for asked

54:35

Jeremy Brewer, the lead investigator,

54:38

what information led them to the pond

54:40

Brewer answered

54:41

the information provider believe she

54:43

saw a person and vehicle matching

54:46

the description

54:48

of John Skelton in his van the

54:50

day before the boys went missing. Brewer

54:53

said this tip was different because the

54:55

information had never been released. The

54:57

woman said she passed by the wooded

55:00

area off the highway on Thanksgiving

55:03

and saw a man in a van parked on

55:05

the side of the road.

55:06

Sergeant Randy Perro said they were using

55:08

a cadaver dog side scan

55:11

sonar and a map of

55:13

the bottom of the pond.

55:14

And it was said that this pond was 14 feet deep.

55:18

In 2019, Lynn Thompson,

55:21

a reporter for the Brian times and

55:23

author of a book about the case titled 76

55:27

minutes told people that

55:29

he feels the police

55:31

should take a closer look at land

55:33

near campground. The police focused

55:36

on the campground early in the investigation,

55:39

but Thompson said they missed

55:41

a large piece of private property

55:43

next door.

55:44

He said he followed a path on the property

55:47

and found a tree with the Little

55:49

League Baseball wedged into it.

55:51

The baseball was made in 2010. He

55:54

thinks the baseball was a trail marker.

55:57

Thompson said he and the sheriff's office did a

55:59

good job.

55:59

the casual search of the property

56:02

in 2013, but he thinks

56:04

there should be another search. Thompson

56:07

also said that his personal investigations

56:10

showed questionable photos

56:12

captured by dive teams of

56:14

objects at the bottom of a pond, but

56:16

these photos didn't make it to the police.

56:19

So I don't know what all that means. Some

56:22

of it's kind of vague. Maybe he has

56:24

more of it in his book titled 76

56:26

Minutes. I didn't read

56:29

it. But if you feel like

56:31

if investigators thought there might have been something

56:33

at the bottom of the pond, I think

56:35

they would have utilized resources

56:38

to make every effort to recover

56:40

those items. Yeah, I didn't know what he meant

56:42

when he said these photos

56:45

didn't make it to the police.

56:47

So were these independent

56:49

dive teams, casual volunteers

56:52

who

56:54

were divers, who took

56:56

photos underwater, but somehow they

56:58

never made it to the police. I didn't understand

57:01

it. And if people have the photos, why wouldn't they just

57:03

send them to the police so police can

57:05

see what they are? Yeah, and granted

57:07

they weren't there to take them, but if they felt that it had

57:09

any value, then they would go out

57:12

and reinvestigate. Yeah, I would think so.

57:14

Lieutenant Jeremy Brewer told people,

57:17

we are always open to ideas and

57:19

theories, and we have conducted numerous

57:21

searches and investigations that the public

57:23

or media were never made aware of. We

57:26

process tips all the time,

57:28

and our main focus is still on

57:30

John Skelton.

57:31

We believe he is the only one that

57:34

knows where those boys are, and we

57:36

hope and pray one day he might have

57:38

a change of attitude

57:39

and help make some closure in the case.

57:42

On September 15th, 2020, Tanya

57:45

shared news on Facebook that

57:47

John was denied parole.

57:49

She received a letter that said, pursuant

57:52

to your request, under the Crime Victim

57:54

Rights Act, this letter is to

57:57

notify you that the Michigan

57:59

Parole Board

57:59

has made a decision

58:01

in this case. The parole board

58:03

has considered and denied parole

58:06

for this prisoner. So, you

58:08

know, obviously she can't be

58:10

happy that she still doesn't have her boys,

58:13

doesn't know what happened to them, right? But

58:15

had to be elated that John

58:18

was denied parole. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

58:20

If he's not going to tell me what we need to know, he

58:23

shouldn't be out.

58:24

In November, 2020, the NC

58:27

MEC released age progressed photos

58:29

of the boys. The photo show Andrew

58:32

at 19, Alexander at 17 and Tanner

58:34

at 15. Today,

58:37

the Michigan state police and the FBI

58:40

are involved in the case. So if the kids

58:42

were that old at that time,

58:44

what's he still protecting? He can go ahead

58:46

and say, here police FBI,

58:49

here's where the boys are. This is what I did with

58:51

them. Well, I think he's claimed

58:54

that he doesn't know where

58:56

they are. He gave them to

58:58

a secret underground

59:00

organization and I'm using the air quotes and

59:03

that after that point,

59:05

he doesn't know where they were taken. After they pulled

59:07

out of his driveway. Yeah. I think

59:10

that's what he's claimed. I gotcha.

59:12

Now my thought would be these

59:14

boys literally are almost all adults.

59:17

Tanner's gotta be 17, maybe even 18 at this point.

59:22

And people looking at those age progress photos,

59:24

you would think somebody might recognize

59:27

one of the boys if they're still alive. Well,

59:29

I was thinking, why wouldn't

59:31

they come forward now? Sure. I

59:33

understand when they were little, they would have had

59:36

very little power. You

59:38

know, if they were with someone who was taking care

59:40

of them or whatever, let's just go down that

59:42

route for a minute. But now,

59:44

you

59:45

know, Andrew's what, 21, 22 years old? Yeah.

59:48

He could come forward. He could come find

59:50

his mom.

59:51

He could, unless he was brainwashed. Yeah,

59:55

or forgot, but he

59:57

was nine years old.

59:58

I think it would be tough.

59:59

for him not to remember his

1:00:02

family, not to remember his mom.

1:00:04

Detective Lieutenant Jeremy Brewer

1:00:07

told the NCMEC every so

1:00:09

often we'll get a tip that makes a lot of sense

1:00:11

to us. We'll throw everything at all

1:00:14

our resources, but obviously

1:00:16

nothing is panned out.

1:00:17

If anyone recalls anything from 10

1:00:20

years ago, maybe about a blue Dodge

1:00:22

Caravan over in that area, that

1:00:24

would be helpful. We rely on the public

1:00:27

quite a bit to be our eyes and ears

1:00:29

on the ground.

1:00:30

John Skelton failed to appear for a

1:00:32

parole hearing on August 27, 2021. Because

1:00:37

he skipped the hearing, he had to wait

1:00:39

another year.

1:00:40

A corrections department spokesman said

1:00:43

John didn't give a reason for skipping

1:00:45

the hearing

1:00:46

in August, 2022.

1:00:49

The Michigan DOC denied

1:00:51

John Skelton parole.

1:00:53

He was given a 12 month continuance.

1:00:56

John's release date is November 29, 2025.

1:01:01

And when you think about it,

1:01:03

that will be here before you know it. Oh,

1:01:05

quickly. It's what, not

1:01:07

even two and a half years from now. Yeah.

1:01:10

According to the Charlie Project, it's

1:01:12

been 12 years since the Skelton

1:01:14

brothers disappeared.

1:01:16

John Skelton is not told anyone

1:01:19

where his sons are. John has said

1:01:21

that the boys are alive,

1:01:22

but won't be returned as

1:01:25

long as Tanya has custody

1:01:27

of them.

1:01:28

John's relatives and Tanya

1:01:30

don't believe that he would hurt

1:01:32

the boys. So John is saying

1:01:34

he knows the boys are alive

1:01:37

and he'll never say as long as Tanya

1:01:39

has custody. But at a certain age,

1:01:42

they're grown men. You know, she

1:01:44

won't have custody.

1:01:46

So why doesn't he just come out and say

1:01:48

they're alive and this is where they're at? Yeah.

1:01:50

Yeah. So I mean, you know, this case is

1:01:53

so strange. It really

1:01:56

is. And then this last

1:01:58

line, John's. relatives

1:02:01

don't believe he would hurt the boys. I get that.

1:02:03

But also it

1:02:05

was saying that Tanya doesn't believe

1:02:08

that

1:02:08

he would hurt the boys. That I

1:02:10

found hard to believe.

1:02:11

Tanya told Local 4 about

1:02:13

John's allegations of abuse against

1:02:16

her. That has all been investigated.

1:02:18

My stuff was gone through. My

1:02:21

children come first. Always have,

1:02:23

always will.

1:02:24

My dream job was to be a mom and

1:02:26

it is the greatest job in the world. But

1:02:28

to say that I abused my sons,

1:02:30

that kills me.

1:02:32

And that would be

1:02:33

tough for any parent. Sure. Who

1:02:35

had never hurt their children,

1:02:38

had never abused their children, to

1:02:41

have that alleged against them.

1:02:43

Especially by someone

1:02:45

you were married to. Right. And that's all it

1:02:47

is, right? Something alleged. Yes. By

1:02:50

him. Never proven by anybody else.

1:02:53

If you have information about the Skeleton

1:02:55

brothers, you can call the Michigan State

1:02:58

Police at 517-636-0689 or

1:03:02

call the National Center for Missing and

1:03:04

Exploited Children at 1-800-843-5678. You

1:03:10

know, as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, it

1:03:12

really is a head scratcher.

1:03:13

Now, my inclination where

1:03:16

I'm leaning on this is

1:03:18

that John Skeleton murdered his boys. I

1:03:21

see where you're coming from on that. Yeah, I can't

1:03:23

say it for a fact. It's just, it's

1:03:25

the way that, you know, everything

1:03:28

kind of points to me, you know,

1:03:31

he takes this drive. There is

1:03:33

what, an hour and a

1:03:35

half roughly unaccounted for.

1:03:38

His phone's turned off. Why?

1:03:41

Yeah. Because he doesn't want it tracked. He doesn't

1:03:43

want it pinging

1:03:44

off of cell towers. Somewhere

1:03:48

during that time, it's

1:03:49

very possible that

1:03:52

he left the boys in some remote

1:03:54

location

1:03:55

where they've never been found. Yeah.

1:03:57

He could have killed them before leaving.

1:04:00

house. He could have killed them somewhere

1:04:02

along the way. Or at the location.

1:04:05

Or at the location. We don't know if

1:04:07

he didn't kill them. Why

1:04:09

so many different stories? Why

1:04:12

not just one story, whether

1:04:14

it makes complete sense or not. Why

1:04:17

not just the, the one story?

1:04:19

Why the, the woman who doesn't

1:04:21

check out,

1:04:22

um, you know, the, the underground

1:04:24

society, the foster home.

1:04:27

There just seems to be too

1:04:29

many different things

1:04:31

you would think if you're admitting to giving

1:04:33

your, your children away, that

1:04:36

you would have the one story and

1:04:38

just stick with it

1:04:40

because all along it's been, he

1:04:42

didn't want Tanya to have the boys

1:04:44

because he believed she was abusing them.

1:04:48

Why not just the one true story

1:04:51

from the get go. Right. And maybe

1:04:54

the reason he attempted to take his life

1:04:56

was he couldn't deal with what he did

1:04:58

to the boys. He thought that was the right

1:05:00

thing to do to for whatever

1:05:02

reason. And after doing so he

1:05:05

came back, tried to take his own life, broke everything

1:05:08

in the house, destroyed the house

1:05:10

and then try to take his own life, which wasn't

1:05:12

successful. If that even occurred,

1:05:15

even if that occurred because he went to the hospital

1:05:17

for what? A broken ankle. Right. That's

1:05:20

really not evidence of him

1:05:23

trying to end his life. Him

1:05:26

telling them that's what he tried to do. And

1:05:28

again, I have such a hard time believing

1:05:31

anything out of his mouth, but you

1:05:33

know, really what

1:05:34

he's done is cloud this

1:05:37

case so much. Yeah. That

1:05:40

it would be very tough

1:05:42

to try him, especially without

1:05:44

the bodies. And I think that

1:05:47

that's always tough, but he's

1:05:49

just been so all over the place. I really

1:05:51

go back to

1:05:53

the fact that so much time has gone by

1:05:55

the age that

1:05:55

these kids would be now,

1:05:58

you know, let's focus on.

1:06:00

Andrew, who was the old, right? He

1:06:02

was nine years old.

1:06:04

He would be roughly 21, 22 years

1:06:06

old today.

1:06:10

And I think a nine year old

1:06:12

most likely wouldn't forget their mom

1:06:14

would have some memories,

1:06:17

would have some memories would know where

1:06:19

they came from. It's nine years worth of life.

1:06:21

So now could there have been

1:06:22

brainwashing? I

1:06:25

don't know. But the more time

1:06:27

that goes by,

1:06:29

the less likely that I believe people

1:06:31

are alive in a situation like this, because

1:06:35

I just think they would have come forward by now.

1:06:38

They're old enough to be able to do that. Well,

1:06:41

if they are, maybe they're listening to this podcast somehow

1:06:43

and they're like, huh, some of that sounds

1:06:45

like something in my past and they're calling,

1:06:49

get some help. Maybe you would

1:06:50

think at the very least they would want to reach out to

1:06:52

their mom. I would think so. If they had, you know,

1:06:56

a good relationship with them. And so it just, it's

1:07:00

just too much that seems to point to John doing

1:07:03

something bad to his children.

1:07:07

Right. And what would be the reason? And

1:07:11

my first thought is to get back

1:07:13

at Tonya.

1:07:15

Of course. Yeah. You know,

1:07:17

if I can't have them, you're

1:07:19

not going to have them. That's right. He

1:07:21

made some statements along those lines. And

1:07:24

we've heard that before with other. We have. Yeah, we have. So

1:07:28

at the end of the day, I don't know what

1:07:30

the answer is. I mean, everybody's

1:07:35

going to have to come to their own conclusion

1:07:37

based on what we know. It's just hard to believe that

1:07:40

he didn't have something to do with their

1:07:42

deaths for me anyway. Right. Right. But

1:07:45

that's it for our case on the skeleton brothers.

1:07:49

Maybe

1:07:51

it'll, it'll be solved one day and

1:07:53

we'll finally know the truth. We've got some voicemails. You want

1:07:55

to

1:07:55

check them out? Let's hear them. Hey Mike and Mike, it's Carrie

1:07:57

Collins. from

1:08:00

Colorado, I was just listening to the Daniel Robertson

1:08:02

case and I don't know, maybe a bunch of people have already called

1:08:04

you to tell you this. But I heard an interview

1:08:07

with his father and you were asking

1:08:09

about why the police

1:08:11

had just kind of closed the book on whether

1:08:13

there could be a possibility for foul play

1:08:16

and just that it was an accident. I heard

1:08:18

an interview with his father, I think I

1:08:20

said that, sorry, where he

1:08:22

said that they had

1:08:24

decided that because all of the clothing was

1:08:26

outside the car, their

1:08:29

investigators said there's a

1:08:31

thing that happens with people with a head injury

1:08:34

where they get really warm. They

1:08:36

feel very hot when they have a head injury and

1:08:38

they always strip all their clothes off. And so

1:08:41

because all of his clothing was right outside the

1:08:43

car, they decided that that 100% meant

1:08:45

that he had struck his head really hard in

1:08:47

the car accident and he

1:08:49

had wandered off into the desert and he either

1:08:52

succumbed to his head wound

1:08:54

and was eaten by an animal or he

1:08:56

had decided to become a monk

1:08:59

or something like that, which

1:09:01

was obviously really strange and the family didn't

1:09:04

buy that at all. And certainly

1:09:06

as a medical professional, it sounds super

1:09:08

weird to me because that's not the normal course

1:09:11

of traumatic brain injury for

1:09:13

the vast majority of people and certainly

1:09:15

not any reason to shut down an investigation.

1:09:18

So, you definitely understand the family's

1:09:21

frustration. So, I didn't know if you came across that in your

1:09:23

research and I don't know how many people have called you and told

1:09:25

you the same

1:09:26

thing. Probably everybody. So,

1:09:28

anyway, stay

1:09:30

safe and keep your own time taken. Bye.

1:09:33

No, actually I didn't see it in the research and

1:09:35

nobody else has said anything about it. No, I appreciate

1:09:38

that. You and I talked about, okay,

1:09:40

could he have sustained a head injury? Right.

1:09:43

And it caused him to be disoriented. We didn't talk

1:09:45

about people getting hot and stripping their clothes,

1:09:48

but no matter what, I don't see how you

1:09:50

can view any of that as 100%

1:09:52

conclusively not

1:09:56

foul play just because

1:09:58

people who have head injuries.

1:09:59

injuries have a tendency to take their clothes

1:10:02

off. Right. That's not proof of

1:10:04

anything. No, it's not. Hi

1:10:06

guys. This is Christina from

1:10:08

New Jersey. I'm a relatively

1:10:11

new listener. I found out about you guys

1:10:13

through the Criminology podcast.

1:10:16

I've been listening to True Crime all the time

1:10:19

on SOG. I will eventually get

1:10:21

to the other one, but I'm an Uber

1:10:23

driver, so I just pop a headphone

1:10:25

in and listen to you guys for

1:10:27

hours and hours on end. So keep

1:10:29

up the good work and keep your own time picking.

1:10:32

All right, love it. Eventually when she

1:10:34

gets over to TCAT, she's gonna hear some of my

1:10:36

Uber stories. If she will, they're good.

1:10:39

Then she's gonna be really excited. Yeah.

1:10:41

Thank you. Hi guys,

1:10:43

this is Erica from San Diego. I am

1:10:45

just in the middle of listening to the Answering

1:10:48

Murders and Mike was telling about

1:10:51

how he had a neighbor who had

1:10:54

to research his experience. And

1:10:58

I was just laughing because

1:11:01

when I was in the military, I

1:11:03

had to get it top secret. And

1:11:07

I come from a really small town that

1:11:09

does not trust the government.

1:11:12

So when they came and

1:11:14

tried to question my neighbors,

1:11:17

similar to your case, a lot of people

1:11:19

shut the doors in my face and they came to

1:11:21

my parents asking why

1:11:23

there were people

1:11:26

at their doors asking about me.

1:11:30

They ended up calling back and answering

1:11:32

some questions, but not without my parents telling

1:11:34

them that it was okay. I just thought

1:11:36

that was funny. But I

1:11:38

hope you guys are good. Take care, bye.

1:11:40

That's exactly why I never got my top secret

1:11:43

clearance. Yeah, I thought you were gonna say your top

1:11:45

gun clearance. Top gun. All

1:11:48

right, Maverick. Now

1:11:50

it was such a strange thing where they would

1:11:52

call me out of the blue and I literally

1:11:54

had never talked to this dude. I

1:11:57

didn't know what, I just told him. I don't know anything

1:11:59

about him.

1:12:00

Other than the fact that he's in the military, I

1:12:02

see him in uniform, so I

1:12:04

assume he's good to go. That's all you can say. That's

1:12:06

all I can say. Yeah, yeah. All right, buddy,

1:12:09

that is it for another episode

1:12:11

of True Crime All The Time. So for Mike. And

1:12:14

Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time

1:12:16

ticking.

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