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See site for details. True

1:10

Crime Brewery contains disturbing content

1:12

related to real-life crimes. Medical

1:15

information is opinion based on facts of

1:17

a crime and should not be interpreted

1:19

as medical advice or treatment. Listener

1:22

discretion is advised. Welcome

1:30

to True Crime Brewery. I'm Jill.

1:32

And I'm Dick. Sandra

1:35

Bridewell lived a life of privilege throughout the

1:37

1970s and into the 1980s. In

1:42

fact, her life could have been described as

1:44

near perfect, if not for the

1:46

trail of dead bodies that were left in her wake.

1:50

Her first husband, a prominent dentist, died in

1:52

their home in 1975. Her

1:55

second husband, a real estate developer,

1:57

died of cancer in 1984. Then

2:00

shortly after his death, his

2:02

oncologist's wife was found shot

2:04

to death in her car,

2:07

and that was just hours after giving Sandra

2:09

a ride to the airport. Then,

2:11

three years after that, Sandra's third husband,

2:14

Alan, was found shot to death in

2:16

his car, where he

2:18

was last seen driving to meet her. And

2:21

six months after that, Alan's cousin

2:23

was found shot to death in

2:25

his garage. So some really curious

2:27

incidents going on there. Join

2:29

us at the quiet end for Death Followed

2:31

Her. Sandra Bridewell had

2:33

a way about her, especially when it came

2:36

to men. She was

2:38

a confessed con artist and a skilled

2:40

liar, but finding her

2:42

legally responsible for the suspicious deaths

2:44

of the people around her would

2:47

prove next to impossible for law

2:49

enforcement. Under suspicion, Sandra

2:51

would allude accountability for her crimes,

2:54

frustrating victims' families and detectives

2:56

for years and years. So

2:59

we got another Texas crime. Seems

3:01

we're having a run of those lately. We have

3:04

had a big run, but I promise we'll be

3:06

breaking it up next month. And

3:08

this beer actually is kind of a local beer.

3:11

It's brewed in El Paso, which is 45 minutes

3:14

from here. So, we'll try some of

3:16

that. We're going to do Dead Beach

3:18

IPA from Dead Beach Brewing Company in

3:21

El Paso. It's an American IPA,

3:23

6.5% alcohol by volume, pretty

3:25

gold color, small head, little

3:28

tiny bit of lacing, sweet malt and

3:30

grapefruit for the aroma, caramel

3:32

and grapefruit for the taste. Not terribly

3:34

hoppy. I put this down as kind

3:37

of an average IPA. It's not great

3:39

for sure. It's certainly not the worst.

3:42

Not real inspiring. Okay. So,

3:44

it'll do. It's adequate. Yeah,

3:46

I'll say that. It'll do. Okay. Well,

3:49

I can't wait to try it. I don't know

3:51

about the combination of caramel and grapefruit, but could

3:53

be good. It will be. Yeah, let's open it

3:55

up. It

22:27

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22:29

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42:00

contrast to John's loveless marriage to

42:02

his wife Betsy. She

42:04

and John didn't know what to do, she said,

42:06

because of their five children. She

42:08

had three, he had two. Then

42:11

she got teary while speaking about the kids and

42:13

how hard it was going to be to tell

42:15

them this. When asked how

42:17

the affair had happened, Sandra said, he's

42:19

just enthralled with me and

42:21

of course he's a brilliant doctor. So

42:24

it just happened. Yeah, look at

42:26

me, I'm gorgeous. Right, why would it

42:28

not happen? Right, who wouldn't

42:30

want me? Right, I think that's how she

42:33

thought. I think you're right. But actually there

42:35

was no evidence that this was true. And

42:38

the other women in the neighborhood really thought

42:40

Sandra was just being delusional. There was no

42:42

affair. No. No. So while

42:44

Bobby was dying, Dr. Bagwell's wife,

42:47

Betsy, had a lot of sympathy

42:49

for Sandra and she was more than happy

42:51

to support her. But then after

42:53

his death, Betsy's patience was tested by

42:56

Sandra who was constantly calling her and

42:58

asking her for favors. Then

43:00

Sandra began to show up at the Bagwell home

43:03

unannounced. But Betsy

43:05

is this kind woman and very

43:07

polite, but she had no experience

43:09

in dealing with an overbearing person,

43:11

big personality person like Sandra. She

43:13

did know how to respond to

43:15

Sandra's exaggerated claims of affection for

43:17

her. Betsy... I can't read that,

43:19

that was very garbled. She

43:22

didn't know how to respond to Sandra's

43:24

exaggerated claims of affection for her. Betsy

43:28

is my new best friend, Sandra

43:30

told their mutual acquaintances, likely

43:32

knowing that it would get back to Betsy. Yeah,

43:36

that 4th of July weekend, Betsy went to Santa

43:38

Fe to spend a few days with an old

43:40

college friend and her husband. But

43:42

Sandra heard about the trip and she told

43:44

Betsy that in the

43:47

Santa Fe area, to pick up her

43:49

daughter Emily from camp after that weekend.

43:52

So she invited herself to stay with Betsy

43:54

for a few days before picking up her

43:56

daughter. Betsy quickly responded that she

43:58

already had a family. full house with some

44:01

old friends, so that wouldn't be possible. But

44:03

Sandra called the Santa Fe house at the

44:05

end of that weekend, and Betsy's

44:08

daughter answered the phone, and she

44:10

let it slip that the visiting couple was about

44:12

to leave. Great, Sandra

44:14

told her. See you soon! So

44:17

Betsy told her visiting friends that Sandra

44:19

was driving her crazy. It was tragic

44:21

that Bobby had died, and sad that

44:23

Sandra was left alone to raise their

44:26

children. But still, Sandra

44:28

was relentless. She was

44:30

constantly showing up where Betsy was, and

44:32

she always needed things from her. So

44:35

she's basically stalking her. Yeah, she's

44:37

just really right there. So

44:40

Betsy made the decision to shorten her stay

44:42

in Santa Fe, just so she

44:44

could avoid this. So after Sandra

44:46

arrived, Betsy made an excuse that she

44:49

needed to return to Dallas earlier

44:51

than expected. Of course, thinking

44:53

that Sandra would leave too, but

44:55

on deterred, Sandra said it was no problem,

44:57

and she'd just lock up the house when

45:00

she left. Betsy was a nice person she

45:02

didn't want to argue, so she gave her

45:04

instructions for closing up the house, and

45:06

she went back to Dallas. But later

45:09

on, Sandra called John Bagwell and asked

45:11

for instructions on how to close up

45:13

the house, implying that Betsy

45:15

hadn't told her. So she just

45:17

wanted to talk to John Bagwell. Yeah. And

45:20

this was really the last straw for Betsy,

45:22

who told her husband John that it was

45:24

time to get Sandra out of their lives.

45:27

She'd had enough. That sounds like

45:29

she really had been bending over

45:31

backwards to do what she thought would help

45:33

Sandra. Well, you know, I think most people

45:35

are kind that way. But when you get

45:38

someone who's willing to take advantage of people

45:40

like that, it's really hard to deal with

45:42

it. Because most people get the

45:44

hint and are decent. But when you

45:46

get someone who's relentless and selfish like

45:48

that, it's really tough to deal with.

45:50

It is. Yeah. mother's

1:06:00

prompting of course. He fell

1:06:02

in love with the kids too and they loved to

1:06:04

spend time with him. Then in the

1:06:06

fall of 1984, Sandra

1:06:09

told Alan that she was pregnant with

1:06:11

twins. So this would kind of

1:06:13

become her MO with men is this pregnancy thing.

1:06:16

And his funny one story I read was

1:06:18

later on, she would tell this man she

1:06:20

was pregnant when she was like almost 60

1:06:22

years old, like she thought he was going

1:06:24

to believe it. So

1:06:27

that was just kind of really pathetic and

1:06:29

sad. So seven years

1:06:31

earlier, Sandra had actually had a

1:06:33

hysterectomy. Remember when she said

1:06:35

she was going to get an abortion, that was

1:06:37

actually a hysterectomy. But of course, Alan

1:06:39

had no way of knowing that and he had no

1:06:41

reason to doubt her. Things were moving

1:06:43

very quickly for sure, but he did feel

1:06:45

like he loved her. He introduced

1:06:48

Sandra to his mother and

1:06:50

planned to adopt Sandra's three children. And

1:06:53

then that December, they were married. So

1:06:55

it all went very fast. But shortly

1:06:57

after Alan had committed to her, Sandra

1:07:00

told him she'd miscarried the twins.

1:07:03

She told them that the twins were both boys with

1:07:05

red hair like his and Alan

1:07:07

was devastated. Now, one thing I

1:07:09

have to put in here is she was supposed to be

1:07:11

like three or four months pregnant. And

1:07:13

I don't think you'd know that they were

1:07:15

two boys with red hair at that point.

1:07:17

No, no, no. So of course,

1:07:20

Alan, though, he doesn't know he's devastated.

1:07:22

Sandra said that she started feeling bad and

1:07:25

had gone to the ER and she'd lost

1:07:27

the babies. But she hadn't wanted to

1:07:29

spend the night in the hospital. So she'd come back

1:07:31

home. So after that, the

1:07:33

money problems really escalated. Sandra

1:07:36

pushed Alan to make more money and

1:07:38

then to take out a life insurance policy

1:07:40

now that he had a family to support

1:07:43

her spending was overwhelming to him, although he

1:07:45

made a good salary. He told

1:07:47

a friend that Sandra spent $20,000

1:07:50

per month on clothing,

1:07:52

food and traveling. That's

1:07:54

amazing to me, isn't

1:07:56

it? Well, I know for sure we don't spend $20,000

1:07:58

a month. No, we're close.

1:08:00

And this is back in the 80s. Behind

1:08:03

Alan's back, she told friends and neighbors that

1:08:05

Alan was getting into drugs and she was

1:08:08

afraid he was gay. So this is kind

1:08:10

of a setup that she did. She

1:08:12

did that with the first husband saying that he

1:08:14

was getting into things

1:08:17

and he was depressed and

1:08:19

he was into gambling and all that. Yeah.

1:08:21

Right. So she's trying to set them up

1:08:24

so that when they do end up

1:08:26

dead, it's understandable and she's not to blame.

1:08:29

So the marriage didn't last long. In November of

1:08:31

1985, they separated hadn't

1:08:33

even been a year. Alan

1:08:36

moved in with a friend and

1:08:38

by this time he was convinced that he needed

1:08:40

to get away from Sandra. He

1:08:42

was really getting a good idea

1:08:44

of who she really was. So

1:08:46

they didn't see one another for several weeks.

1:08:49

Then in early December, Sandra called

1:08:51

Alan and asked him to meet her at

1:08:53

a storage facility where they'd kept some of

1:08:55

their stuff. So Alan was

1:08:57

staying with a friend and his family and

1:08:59

he left to meet Sandra at the storage

1:09:02

facility at around 4.55, which

1:09:05

meant he should have arrived at the storage warehouse

1:09:07

around 5.20. So

1:09:09

Alan smiled and waved at his friend as he

1:09:11

pulled out of the driveway. And that's the last

1:09:13

time that his friend would see him alive. Around

1:09:16

6.15 PM, Senator

1:09:18

called the friend's house. Where's Alan?

1:09:20

She asked. Where's Alan? She asked

1:09:22

angrily. He's not here. I'm

1:09:25

not going to wait any longer. It's just

1:09:27

like him not to show. I'm sure he's

1:09:29

off gallivanting around or maybe he decided to

1:09:31

drive to Oklahoma to visit a friend there.

1:09:33

This isn't the first time he's not shown

1:09:35

for an appointment. Then she

1:09:37

hung up. So hours go by. Still,

1:09:39

Alan didn't return. His friend wondered what

1:09:41

could have diverted him. Alan didn't come

1:09:43

back that night or the next morning.

1:09:45

Yeah. And just the way she's trying

1:09:47

to portray him is way off. He

1:09:50

wasn't the type of guy that would just take off.

1:09:52

It just wasn't something he would have done. And

1:09:55

it's interesting that she said

1:09:57

he may have gone to Oklahoma to visit a

1:09:59

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the next time anyone saw Alan,

1:11:17

he was found slumped over in

1:11:19

his Bronco in Oklahoma. He was clothed

1:11:21

in athletic shorts, a t-shirt, and a

1:11:23

navy blue sweater. Alan had

1:11:26

been shot twice. Once in the

1:11:28

right side of his chest, and once in

1:11:30

the back of his head. No weapon

1:11:32

was found in or near the car. The

1:11:35

officers found no wallet or car keys.

1:11:37

But robbery didn't look like the motive

1:11:39

because he was still wearing his expensive

1:11:41

watch. Alan had been rolled

1:11:43

from the driver's seat towards the center

1:11:45

console. His head and upper body had

1:11:47

fallen backward into the back seat. His

1:11:49

legs were lying in between the front

1:11:51

seats. It appeared that someone

1:11:53

had shot him while he was sitting in the

1:11:56

driver's seat, then pushed him out of the seat

1:11:58

and onto the floorboard direct

1:18:00

to Allen's murder. Although Sandra

1:18:02

avoided accountability for David, Betsy, or

1:18:05

Allen's deaths, her reputation in Dallas

1:18:07

took a huge hit. So

1:18:09

that less than a year after Allen's

1:18:12

death, Sandra would move away from Dallas

1:18:14

and relocated to San Francisco. Got

1:18:16

to get out of Dodge. Yes. Heating

1:18:19

up. Absolutely. On Thursday,

1:18:21

June 19, 1986,

1:18:23

there was a front page story published in

1:18:25

the Park City's News with the headline. His

1:18:28

relatives searched for witness clues to

1:18:30

help police solve murder case. So

1:18:33

the story had a photo of Allen standing

1:18:35

with his mother Gloria and his wife Sandra.

1:18:38

The article didn't say that Sandra was

1:18:40

the prime suspect, but the circumstances that

1:18:43

were reported really made it clear that

1:18:45

she was. The

1:18:47

article also mentioned that Sandra was

1:18:49

only communicating with the police through

1:18:51

her attorney. So that always sounds

1:18:53

bad. Yeah, it does. It's

1:18:55

probably about the first thing I do if I

1:18:58

suspected of a serious crime would be

1:19:00

a lawyer up. Sure. But

1:19:02

at the same time, we kind of look at people who

1:19:04

do that as figuring they got something to hide. Well,

1:19:07

I mean, it kind of seems that way

1:19:09

because a lot of people when something like

1:19:11

that happens, they're totally open with the

1:19:13

police and they're innocent and there's no problem. But

1:19:16

if you're a person who doesn't really trust the police,

1:19:18

getting a lawyer is the wise thing to do

1:19:21

overall. Absolutely. With

1:19:23

that paper, the park city's news

1:19:25

was a small community newspaper and

1:19:28

it was distributed throughout the whole area. So

1:19:31

all the women who'd known Sandra since she'd moved

1:19:33

to Highland Park in 1978 were talking

1:19:35

about it. A reward of $10,000 for

1:19:38

information leading to the arrest and conviction

1:19:41

of Allen's killer was offered as well.

1:19:43

Even before Allen's death, Allen's first cousin,

1:19:46

Robert Smith, had had a bad feeling

1:19:48

about Sandra. To him, she seemed like

1:19:50

a phony who'd been using Allen. So

1:19:53

we don't know why she picked Allen. Maybe

1:19:55

she thought he had the potential to become

1:19:58

a big money earner or maybe she He

1:28:01

told her he was examining the possibility

1:28:03

that Roberts' death was linked to Allen's

1:28:05

death. When Allen's

1:28:07

mother Gloria heard about this, she contacted

1:28:09

the FBI investigator and asked him why

1:28:11

he thought the deaths might be linked.

1:28:15

The investigator said that Roberts' right-hand

1:28:17

position in the death scene photos

1:28:19

was inconsistent with him firing the

1:28:21

rifle. And his statement

1:28:23

really raised Gloria's hopes that the FBI

1:28:25

was having a breakthrough in their investigation

1:28:28

of both deaths. But

1:28:30

then she never heard from the investigator again.

1:28:33

During Gloria's trip to Dallas in June of 1986,

1:28:37

she spoke to Sandra's former neighbor,

1:28:39

Margaret, who had, since Allen's death,

1:28:42

become quite afraid of Sandra. Among

1:28:44

the many surprising things that Margaret told

1:28:47

Gloria was that Sandra was in debt

1:28:49

and often hurting for cash. Her

1:28:51

financial conditions seemed to fluctuate from one

1:28:53

extreme to the other. In

1:28:56

January, she booked a ski trip

1:28:58

to Santa Fe, invited Margaret and her son

1:29:00

to join, and cover the whole bill. They

1:29:04

stayed in the historic Santa Fe

1:29:06

Hilton that had once belonged to

1:29:08

Sandra's deceased husband, Bobby Bridewell. She

1:29:10

didn't know where Sandra got that money, but

1:29:13

Sandra had taken a $25,000 unsecured loan

1:29:15

from the Bank of Dallas on December 20,

1:29:18

1985. A

1:29:20

month later, she got another unsecured loan from

1:29:22

the Bank of Dallas for $40,000. Now,

1:29:26

Sandra did not make one payment on either

1:29:29

loan, and then she moved to California. And

1:29:31

ultimately, the Bank of Dallas submitted a

1:29:34

claim for her unpaid debt to Allen's

1:29:36

estate. Yeah, so Sandra kind

1:29:38

of had this habit of getting these

1:29:41

loans, and sometimes she would get men

1:29:43

to co-sign them for her, often married

1:29:45

men. And then when they

1:29:47

would ask her to make a payment, she'd say, well, maybe you

1:29:49

should talk to your wife about that. Yeah. Right?

1:29:52

So she was very conniving. Not

1:29:54

above a little blackmail. No. So

1:29:57

one night in August of 1988, a woman... have

1:34:00

been responsible for that as well. So

1:34:02

women in Dallas started getting calls from

1:34:05

their friends in the Bay Area asking

1:34:07

them about Sandra. The 1990s began

1:34:10

with a new phase in Sandra's life during

1:34:12

which she had to move a lot. She

1:34:15

started calling herself by her middle name

1:34:17

Camille after her adoptive mother who'd been

1:34:19

killed when Sandra was just three and

1:34:22

in each due place she always met a man

1:34:24

who supported her until he realized

1:34:26

that he was being used. Her

1:34:29

specialty was seducing married men, blackmailing

1:34:31

them, or borrowing money from them

1:34:33

that she never had any intention

1:34:35

of paying back. But

1:34:37

the curiosity about Camille's true background

1:34:39

often resulted in the men finding

1:34:41

the D magazine story and

1:34:44

Sandra was essentially doomed by her past

1:34:46

as she started moving from place to

1:34:48

place. In 1992

1:34:50

she lived in Palo Alto,

1:34:52

California and made frequent

1:34:54

trips to San Francisco. At a party

1:34:56

in the city she met a married

1:34:59

venture capitalist. Sandra's two-year affair with this

1:35:01

man ended when his wife found out

1:35:03

about it through a private investigator. So

1:35:06

he wasn't going to give up Sandra so

1:35:09

to placate his wife he moved Sandra to Boston

1:35:11

in 1994 and Sandra

1:35:13

agreed to this on the condition that he would

1:35:15

cover the cost of a $3,000

1:35:18

per month apartment on Beacon Hill for

1:35:20

six months. Three months later she

1:35:22

called him and told him she was three

1:35:24

months pregnant and intended to keep the child.

1:35:27

Six months after that she called him

1:35:29

again and claimed she just gone into

1:35:31

labor and was headed to the maternity

1:35:34

ward. The newborn she said would go

1:35:36

straight into adoption. So later

1:35:38

this guy learned from his wife's

1:35:40

private investigator that Sandra was 50

1:35:42

years old and had a hysterectomy

1:35:44

15 years earlier. Now even at 50

1:35:47

Sandra could kind of pull off the pregnancy

1:35:49

trick she'd used to deceive Alan and others.

1:35:52

But then as the years passed and she showed

1:35:54

more signs of her age she

1:35:56

began to understand there were limitations on this.

1:36:00

So this is when Sandra moved

1:36:02

on from sexuality to religion. In

1:36:05

2000, Camille, as she

1:36:07

goes by now, married cardiologist Dr. Joseph

1:36:09

Dandridge, a recently divorced Christian. By the

1:36:12

end of the year, he was at

1:36:14

his wit's end to the point of

1:36:16

considering taking his own life. His lovely

1:36:18

wife had taken out several credit cards

1:36:21

during their short marriage and

1:36:23

had bought expensive merchandise and services.

1:36:26

She took his brand new Ford

1:36:28

Expedition SUV and his coin collection

1:36:30

and disappeared. When Dr. Dandridge married

1:36:32

Sandra, he had zero consumer debt

1:36:34

and owned a large amount of

1:36:37

gold. When she left

1:36:39

him, he had $150,000 of credit

1:36:41

card debt and no

1:36:43

valuable personal property. In

1:36:46

just a quarter of a year, his marriage had resulted

1:36:48

in a $200,000 loss. But

1:36:51

the good news was he made it

1:36:53

out of this marriage alive. That's true.

1:36:55

That's very true. Just amazing though. Isn't

1:36:58

it? Yeah, it really is. And

1:37:00

sad because this is a guy who was

1:37:02

retirement age. She's not going to be able to

1:37:04

make back that money likely. And she just takes

1:37:07

the money and spends it like it's nothing

1:37:09

and this is money people work their lives

1:37:11

for, you know. A lot

1:37:13

of them didn't. A lot of them were wealthy

1:37:15

and it probably didn't affect them that much. But

1:37:17

some of them, it really did. Yeah. Well, like

1:37:19

we've seen, the first husband was a dentist. That's

1:37:21

certainly a job that will provide you with a

1:37:23

good income. Yeah. But it's not going to make

1:37:25

you extremely wealthy. No,

1:37:28

but why wouldn't she be fine with

1:37:30

that? Right. Yeah, I know. And the

1:37:32

same thing with this last guy, Dr.

1:37:34

Dandridge. Yeah. Cardiologists make pretty good money

1:37:36

but just not the kind of money

1:37:39

that Sandra needed. Right. Exactly. And

1:37:41

that was really the case with all of her

1:37:43

husbands. It was never enough. It's just pure greed.

1:37:46

So now she was going by the

1:37:48

name Camille Brightwell and she claimed to

1:37:50

have recently wandered into North Carolina and

1:37:52

to be a Christian missionary. So when

1:37:54

she got to North Carolina, she moved

1:37:57

in with 77 year old Sue Mosley.

1:38:00

in 2006. She said

1:38:02

she was in between missions and needed a place

1:38:04

to stay for a short time. Now

1:38:06

her story was strange, but she seemed

1:38:08

very warm and intelligent. Sue

1:38:10

Mosley's sister Audrey, also an elderly

1:38:13

lady who lived alone, welcomed

1:38:15

having Camille's company. As

1:38:18

she was recovering from a recent eye

1:38:20

surgery, she could use a living companion,

1:38:22

she said, to help around the house.

1:38:26

So Audrey and Camille visited her sister

1:38:28

Sue at her beautiful house in

1:38:31

St. James Plantation, which

1:38:33

was a gated community near Southport.

1:38:36

Sue was recovering from abdominal surgery

1:38:38

that had led to sepsis. She

1:38:41

had been cured by antibiotics, but she was

1:38:43

still weak. And to make

1:38:45

matters worse, her daughter Nancy, who

1:38:48

was recently divorced and living with her, had

1:38:51

just been in a bad car

1:38:53

accident. And she'd been hospitalized with

1:38:55

severe trauma. So shortly after

1:38:57

Audrey and Camille arrived, Sue mentioned

1:38:59

the accident and the difficult recovery

1:39:01

that lay ahead for Nancy as

1:39:03

well. So Camille quickly volunteered

1:39:05

to take care of Nancy and Sue

1:39:08

before she had to leave on her

1:39:10

next mission to Africa and Sue accepted.

1:39:12

Sue's property had a beautiful view of

1:39:15

the inland waterway and was worth over

1:39:17

a million dollars. Although

1:39:19

she was determined to maintain her

1:39:21

independence, she was grateful

1:39:23

for Camille's help with chores, grocery shopping

1:39:26

and cooking. She felt like

1:39:28

this missionary was excellent company as well.

1:39:30

But soon Camille got to

1:39:32

work taking over Sue Mosley's

1:39:35

finances. She collected

1:39:37

tax records, rerouted her

1:39:39

Social Security payments to a new

1:39:41

account, took the mortgage money, ran

1:39:44

up credit cards, and used Mosley's

1:39:46

bank account to pay for spa

1:39:48

treatments and designer clothing. So

1:39:50

Jim Mosley, Sue's son, eventually

1:39:52

grew suspicious of his mother's

1:39:54

housemate. And in early 2007, he read

1:39:56

a newspaper story

1:39:59

in the Dallas Kristina

1:44:07

is also going to give us some praise first

1:44:09

and then she's going to give us a case

1:44:11

suggestion. All right, Kristina, let's hear it. Hi,

1:44:15

Dick and Jill. This is Kristina, long

1:44:18

time listener, first time caller. I've probably

1:44:21

been listening since 2017, just

1:44:23

recently became a tie grabber. So

1:44:26

thank you for all the coasters. My

1:44:28

kids are very confused as to why I

1:44:30

have coasters that say murder is

1:44:32

bad and beer is good, but

1:44:34

I like that. So anyway, I

1:44:36

just wanted to say thanks because I've

1:44:39

been listening for so long and I

1:44:41

really love just kind of your banter

1:44:43

back and forth and both of you

1:44:46

have such soothing voices. So even

1:44:48

when you're talking about disturbing things,

1:44:51

it's almost relaxing to me. And

1:44:54

I also wanted to recommend a case. I don't

1:44:56

know that you've covered it. It is a case

1:44:58

that was made into a movie.

1:45:02

It's about the murder of Bobby Kent and

1:45:05

the movie is entitled Bully and

1:45:08

it is a murder that happened

1:45:10

locally here to me

1:45:12

in Florida. And

1:45:15

it's a very interesting case. I'm very sad.

1:45:18

So if you want to look into it, that'd

1:45:20

be great. Anyway, thank you so much and bye.

1:45:25

Thank you, Kristina. It's a very

1:45:27

nice voicemail and you know, it's great

1:45:29

because one person's monotone is another person's

1:45:31

soothing. So I guess it just depends

1:45:33

how you look at it. That's

1:45:35

it. Yeah. So what

1:45:38

do we know about this case? Well, there's a

1:45:40

lot to this case and without giving too much

1:45:42

away, I'll just summarize it very, very quickly. Bobby

1:45:44

Kent was murdered in 1993 by seven people. Seven.

1:45:49

Seven. One of whom was

1:45:51

his best friend, Marty Puccio and the

1:45:53

motive for the killing was that Bobby

1:45:56

was a bully, particularly towards Marty. Marty

1:45:58

would come home from being with Bobby. Bobby

1:46:00

bruised and bleeding. Wow. And

1:46:04

so he was killed. The murder was adapted

1:46:06

into a movie that was called Bully and

1:46:08

this is in 2001. So

1:46:11

what happened here, just a group of kids

1:46:13

that he had been bullying got together and

1:46:15

decided to do this? Yep. Do

1:46:18

you think they decided to actually kill him or did

1:46:20

things just get out of hand? No, it

1:46:22

seems like they were there to kill him. Wow.

1:46:25

And how old were these kids? They're all late

1:46:27

teens, 17, 18, 19, 20. Wow.

1:46:31

Well, that is really tragic. Wow. So

1:46:33

I'll be very interested to read about that

1:46:36

one. Yeah, there's a lot of sources. Yeah.

1:46:39

So I think we have plenty of stuff

1:46:41

to write about. Okay. And

1:46:43

to talk about? Yeah. Okay.

1:46:46

Sounds good. All right. She

1:46:49

writes that she did leave us a review and

1:46:52

she's writing because she feels like the

1:46:54

Betty Peggy twin episode, which was titled

1:46:57

split decision is an example of physical

1:46:59

attractiveness affirmation. She looked at a study

1:47:01

which she forwarded to us, but I

1:47:04

wasn't able to open the link. But

1:47:06

she said it, she thinks it exemplifies

1:47:08

the point that she was trying to

1:47:11

make that people who are considered more

1:47:13

attractive have more positive social interactions. So

1:47:16

the study she had sent was kind of a

1:47:18

twin study and she thought this was good food

1:47:20

for thought. So thanks, Michelle. And

1:47:23

with Betty and Peggy, it was

1:47:25

obviously more than just their appearance.

1:47:27

It was that the twin that

1:47:29

was acquitted was more religious, more

1:47:32

of an upstanding citizen. And

1:47:34

the twin that was convicted was

1:47:37

for lack of a better word, just kind of

1:47:39

more of a loose having a

1:47:41

good time type of woman. She

1:47:43

was recovering alcoholic. She

1:47:45

had her fair share of men. Who

1:47:47

are we to judge that? But I think the jury

1:47:49

probably did judge her by that. This

1:47:51

was down south as well, where a lot

1:47:54

of people there had some old fashioned views

1:47:56

about women and how they should behave, I

1:47:58

believe. But as far as. the

1:48:00

physical attractiveness affirmation. I have read some

1:48:02

on this before, I don't know if it

1:48:05

was when I took psychology or something, it

1:48:07

was quite a while ago. But if

1:48:10

you have someone who's attractive for a

1:48:12

job interview, for example, they're

1:48:14

more likely to get the job if they're

1:48:16

attractive, that's clear. Same thing

1:48:18

with a fit person compared

1:48:21

to an obese person, they get treated

1:48:23

better. And I don't think that really

1:48:25

would surprise anyone to know that. That's

1:48:28

just how our society works, unfortunately. Well,

1:48:30

and it's just it's not just physical

1:48:32

attractiveness, it's how you present yourself. So

1:48:36

you can come across as a person

1:48:38

who is interested and empathetic

1:48:41

with you. And they're going

1:48:43

to get more of a positive response than

1:48:46

someone who kind of ignores you, or

1:48:48

doesn't say anything to you. Well, yeah,

1:48:50

because it's also about how that person

1:48:52

makes you feel. Right. And that's going

1:48:54

to affect how you feel about them.

1:48:56

And in this case, we just were

1:48:59

talking about today with Sandra, definitely her

1:49:01

looks were a big factor, but it

1:49:03

wasn't just her looks. It was the

1:49:05

way that she could kind of fawn

1:49:07

over people and make them feel good

1:49:10

about themselves. And that's a

1:49:12

big thing. Yeah. So if

1:49:14

you're not a killer and fraud,

1:49:17

it can be a good thing to have

1:49:19

that kind of appeal. But unfortunately,

1:49:21

some people use it in a bad

1:49:23

way. So secondary

1:49:25

games, right? Yes, absolutely. So

1:49:28

I really thank you, Michelle. I

1:49:30

really appreciate you bringing that up. Just very

1:49:33

thoughtful. Yeah, it was a good note. It

1:49:35

means that she really gave some thought to

1:49:37

the episode, which I definitely appreciate. Because

1:49:40

that was a shocking case that

1:49:42

two people, the same crime

1:49:44

and the story revolves around both

1:49:46

of them being involved in

1:49:48

it. So it's not like did one do

1:49:51

it or did the other do it? The

1:49:53

story is the same with each of them

1:49:55

doing it together. But one is convicted and

1:49:57

one is not, which is just craziness.