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Hey guys, welcome to episode 182

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of the true crime couple podcast.

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so that's it it's

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time to get back to our normally scheduled

1:58

programming John Are

2:00

you ready to hear something crazy? Of course. Our

2:04

case today brings us back

2:06

to 1995 in Bellingham, a

2:09

coastal town situated between the

2:11

Bellingham Bay and Lake

2:14

Whatcom in the northwest corner

2:16

of the picturesque state of Washington.

2:20

Bellingham has been broken up

2:22

into various neighborhoods, 20 to

2:24

be exact. Each is

2:26

unique, but all offer the views that

2:28

one has come to expect from

2:30

the Pacific Northwest of the United States.

2:34

The vibrant communities are all steeped in

2:36

their own history, but

2:38

today we will focus on the community that

2:41

our victim called home, a

2:43

place ironically called Happy Valley.

2:47

Which leads me to our story, where

2:50

things are not always what they seem.

2:55

Police say the suspect, 31-year-old Jeffrey Dahmer,

2:58

has confessed to the killings of 11

3:00

people whose remains were found in his

3:02

apartment. We are all

3:04

evil in some form or another.

3:07

Are we not? Lock your doors, lock

3:09

your windows. If you have

3:11

the ability to provide additional security devices, then by

3:13

all means do so. The

3:17

Happy Valley community is located

3:20

just south of Western Washington

3:22

University, the country's oldest

3:24

environmental college. The

3:27

fact that Bellingham is home to a

3:29

college has shaped the neighborhoods that surround

3:31

it. The diversification of

3:33

the community is evident there as

3:36

it is in most college towns. There

3:39

are quiet neighborhoods that give way to

3:41

the idea that Happy Valley is, at

3:43

its core, a sleepy village. But

3:45

there are also apartment buildings and restaurants

3:48

that appeal more to the college style

3:50

of living. Despite

3:52

their differences, the under 6,000 residents

3:55

of Happy Valley seem to live

3:57

a well-happy existence.

4:00

together, a symbiotic relationship,

4:02

the ecology majors would like

4:04

to say. And

4:06

that brings us to Kristie Onstad.

4:10

When she was in middle school, Kristie

4:12

Onstad moved to a just under 1000

4:14

square foot three bedroom

4:17

home at 3112 Wilson

4:19

Ave in Happy Valley. She

4:22

lived with her mother Sue and

4:24

Sue's long term boyfriend,

4:27

who had been in her life since she was five

4:30

years old and his name was James Dickey and

4:33

her half sister Kayla, who

4:35

was the biological daughter of her mother

4:37

and I guess we could call

4:39

him like her stepfather because he'd been in her life

4:42

for so long. Like

4:44

it is for all kids, a move can

4:47

be very difficult. But for

4:49

13 year old Kristie, it was made harder

4:51

by how she was treated by the children

4:53

of Happy Valley. It

4:55

was 1994 and that Fairhaven Middle

4:58

School knew bright and flashy fashion

5:00

or the grunge look was in,

5:04

but something that was only afforded by those who

5:06

had the means to do so. And

5:09

there is like a huge economic difference

5:12

within Bellingham. I'm not too sure about

5:14

now, but when I was reading about

5:16

the case, there seemed to be a

5:18

lot of economic disparity between people who

5:21

had like really wealthy houses on the

5:23

lake versus people who lived in maybe

5:25

more of a lower economic

5:28

standpoint. And Kristie

5:30

had not been one of those kids

5:32

who had the means to dress in

5:34

the newest fashions. With

5:37

her large red Coke bottle glasses and

5:39

a wardrobe that consisted of hammy down

5:41

clothes from the 80s, she

5:43

stuck out like a sore thumb and

5:46

the kids reminded her of it because

5:48

they can often be very cruel. She

5:52

was often picked on for dressing differently. And

5:56

you know, that's the

5:58

worst things that we could ever imagine, you

6:00

know, being children in the mid

6:02

90s in middle school, you know, not only

6:04

are you the new kid, but you're being

6:07

made fun of because you're poor. That's

6:09

really sad. Super sad. But

6:13

Kristi tried not to let it get to

6:15

her. She wanted to fit in

6:17

very badly, which makes things

6:19

even more heartbreaking. She

6:22

did this by being friendly to everyone and

6:24

keeping a smile on her face. As

6:27

time went on, she slowly began to come out

6:30

of her shell, but still

6:32

she was known as being pretty quiet.

6:36

But in looking for acceptance, Kristi found herself

6:38

in a bit of trouble. Although

6:41

she had found an ally in one of her

6:43

neighbors who would stick up for her on the

6:45

bus if she was ever blatantly

6:47

getting picked on, she had

6:49

a harder time making real friends.

6:53

And desperate to fit in and be

6:55

accepted, Kristi eventually found her place among,

6:58

I guess, what you would consider a

7:00

less desirable crowd. Yeah, I mean,

7:02

that might be because they're making her feel like she's the

7:04

poor kid in school. And I mean,

7:06

I would imagine that at some point you're going

7:08

to gravitate towards people that are or

7:11

have been deemed or classified

7:13

as the same or less

7:15

desired people. Right. I mean, it's so sad how

7:17

how school is, right? When you think about it

7:19

now as an adult, you're like, wow, that's actually

7:21

kind of messed up, you know, but

7:23

it does happen and it sucks. But I

7:25

think when people make you feel not worthy

7:28

or less than someone else, that you're

7:30

not of, let's say, equal value,

7:33

you know, yeah, I think

7:35

that you walk around thinking that no

7:37

one cares about you. And

7:39

I think almost like it makes you a

7:41

target, not just for like the abuse that

7:44

you'll suffer in school, but also that might

7:46

carry like a carry a

7:48

longer kind of, you know,

7:51

sentence, so to speak, like, you know, you go through life

7:53

then after high school thinking that

7:55

you don't matter, you know, and like,

7:57

it's terrible, but it does start here,

7:59

you know, lowers yourself. and that

8:01

means you're more willing to

8:03

accept people that aren't treating you

8:06

based on your worth. It's true. What

8:09

we know of this friend group is kind

8:11

of next to nothing. So we don't know

8:13

if she was accepted by them

8:15

because they understood what it was like to

8:17

be outcasts or to be different, or

8:20

because they saw her as an impressionable

8:22

young girl that they could manipulate. Because

8:25

this was kind of like the crowd

8:27

that like, school smoked, did things like

8:29

that. So we don't know if

8:31

they were like, you know what, maybe we'll protect her, or

8:34

we can have fun with her. We

8:38

don't know necessarily why this group took her in, but

8:40

they did. Now, like you said, she

8:42

was new, right? Yes. I mean, that's probably

8:44

one of the reasons too. I mean, you're in a situation

8:47

where you literally don't know anybody. And this is

8:49

the first group to accept you, so you're going to

8:51

jump to them. Of course. So

8:54

either way, we know that once Kristi

8:56

fell into this circle, she did take

8:58

on some bad habits. And

9:00

by that, I mean smoking, not caring as

9:02

much in school, and having a

9:04

bit of what was described as a rebellious

9:06

streak. Once she started hanging

9:09

out with this group of friends, she also

9:11

developed a habit of running away, which

9:13

made things all the more complicated when

9:16

she truly did disappear. On

9:21

April 15th, 1995, 14-year-old

9:23

Kristi had run away from home. Like

9:27

she had in times before, she returned

9:29

the very next day. But

9:32

then the day after her return, on April

9:34

17th, she was

9:36

missing again. As

9:39

I said before, this had happened before.

9:41

So it was something that Kristi's mother, Sue,

9:44

had grown accustomed to, but

9:46

this event seemed different. So

9:48

she had decided to call the Bellingham

9:50

Police Department, who made a missing persons

9:53

report. According

9:55

to the report, Kristi was reported

9:58

as a runaway by her mother. had

12:00

said that she was in

12:02

the middle of what they described as a rebellious

12:04

streak. Now, I will say that

12:06

there are like things in place

12:08

now in the school system where something like

12:10

this would not happen. And

12:13

that's why it's so important when teachers

12:15

take attendance, especially first period, middle

12:18

school, high school level, it's different in the elementary

12:20

school. But the second

12:22

student is not

12:24

in school, and their parent hasn't called

12:26

them out. They called

12:29

the parents. And if we can't get in

12:31

touch with the parents, we send an officer

12:33

to the home. Oh, wow.

12:35

Yeah. Okay. So

12:37

that's like the protocol nowadays. But I don't think

12:39

that was what it was in 1995, because there

12:41

also wasn't, you know, a

12:43

large police presence in school because

12:46

we are talking pre-colum. Oh, okay. Well,

12:49

that's crazy. Yeah, there you go. A little school history

12:51

there. Yeah. So it

12:53

seemed that based on her history, the

12:56

plan from the police department was, like,

12:58

let's see if she comes home tonight,

13:00

and then we'll revisit this and begin

13:03

our investigation tomorrow if she doesn't. However,

13:06

just to be safe, they did

13:08

put her name into the missing

13:10

persons database. And they

13:12

did issue a be on the lookout for all

13:14

of their on duty officers. And

13:16

they also contacted the county police.

13:19

So anyone on duty was looking

13:21

for someone of Christie's description. I

13:24

mean, that's pretty good, at least. Yeah. That's

13:26

the best we could expect in this case at that time.

13:29

The following day, Christie's parents did not wake

13:32

up to find that she had returned to

13:34

their home. Instead, they

13:36

woke up to their phone ringing. A

13:38

man was on the line. His

13:41

name was Willie Golightly. He

13:43

said that while he had been walking down

13:46

Samish Way, he found a backpack

13:48

that he believed to belong to

13:50

their daughter because it was

13:52

a teenager's backpack and their home phone

13:54

number had been found inside. At

13:58

some point in the conversation, it was

14:00

conveyed to Golightly that Christie had been

14:02

reported missing the day before. James

14:06

Dickey, Christie's stepfather, I guess

14:08

we could call him, went

14:11

directly to the residence of Golightly to

14:13

see if in fact this was Christie's

14:15

backpack. After

14:17

seeing the items inside, he confirmed

14:19

that those were his stepdaughter's things.

14:23

Dickey asked to take the backpack home

14:25

with him. And

14:28

not thinking this was the right thing

14:30

to do, Golightly refused to give the

14:32

backpack to Dickey, and he said

14:35

he would feel more comfortable giving the items directly

14:37

to the police if Christie was missing. I

14:40

mean, that's actually smart. I mean, I understand.

14:43

Even in 1995, I think we're starting to get

14:45

into the beginning of like having

14:48

more foresight because like you might, okay,

14:50

this isn't the, you know, the biological

14:53

father of the child. And

14:55

you know, maybe this is where we start

14:57

to think like the worst of people, unfortunately,

15:00

like maybe this person is responsible. Let

15:02

me not take a chance to just give it to police. I

15:04

think that's smart. I know

15:06

it might ruffle feathers, but I

15:08

think that if a girl is missing, you do everything

15:11

that you can possibly do in order to get the

15:13

best result, right? Yeah, it takes it takes

15:15

a bit of gumption, I guess I would say for someone to

15:17

be like, you know what? I'm gonna give

15:19

this to you. I'm gonna call the police. So it

15:21

is good that he did that from an investigative

15:23

standpoint. And I also think some

15:25

of that can be attributed to normal

15:28

everyday citizens having a little bit

15:31

more information about police procedures from

15:33

television shows. Right. Like

15:35

as much as it's like fantasy and

15:37

not really like it is on the

15:39

shows or corny. Yeah. But like,

15:41

at least we know like, okay, you know what? If

15:43

I give this to him, that could be bad. Right.

15:46

He could get rid of it. It was responsible somehow.

15:49

Right. It gives people calls for

15:51

pause. But at the same time, you

15:53

also kind of feel bad pointing somebody

15:55

out like that and not being not

15:58

willingly give them something when that's their fault. Christie

18:00

was dropped off at her middle school,

18:02

which is located in the Fairhaven

18:05

neighborhood of Bellingham, which is

18:07

further to the west. So

18:09

that means that the family home is

18:11

in the middle of where the

18:13

middle school is to the west and where

18:15

the backpack was found to the east. Okay.

18:20

Pretty simple. Straightforward. Yep.

18:22

Now, according to Google Maps, the drive from Christie's

18:25

house to the middle school is 1.6 miles.

18:29

It's about a five minute drive. And

18:31

the backpack was found about a mile east

18:33

of her home. Therefore,

18:36

Christie's backpack was found just over

18:38

two and a half miles or

18:41

four kilometers away from where

18:43

she had been dropped off

18:45

approximately. It

18:48

would have been very difficult for her

18:50

to have done that walk. Not

18:53

impossible, but it would have been very long

18:55

and it would have, she would have had

18:57

to cross over an interstate. So

19:00

it's more likely that she was in a vehicle

19:03

versus her leaving anywhere on foot. And

19:05

that's what investigators are going to kind

19:07

of, the conclusion they're going to come

19:09

to once this backpack is found

19:12

where it has been on Samish Way.

19:15

That's very interesting. Yeah. Because

19:17

I mean, I understand what you're saying. Like, yes,

19:19

it could be done on foot, but the likelihood

19:21

that it was due to the fact that there

19:23

was a way that you would have to cross

19:25

an interstate. Pretty large in the state. Yeah. Like

19:28

that changes things, especially for a 13 year old

19:30

or 14 year old. I keep messing up. What

19:32

is it? Sorry. Yeah.

19:36

That's kind of difficult. Yeah. It

19:38

was April. So

19:40

that's why I remember it. And she

19:44

was just about to turn 15. Gotcha.

19:46

So she was about four months shy from it. So

19:49

now that Christie had not returned and

19:51

her backpack had been found on the

19:53

side of the road, the investigation was

19:55

kicked up. The

19:57

detective first spoke with the family and he

32:00

to cause her to run away. It's more than

32:02

always what meets the eye. It's like there's more

32:04

there. So I hope that that's

32:06

something that we look into. So those two things, his

32:08

involvement and what's really happening at home to make her

32:11

run away in the first place. Those

32:13

are good thought processes because those are

32:15

the same thoughts that the detective had.

32:18

And when he was talking to the sheriff's

32:20

deputies and they were saying that they thought

32:23

this search was a little bit off, it

32:25

made him recall a comment that was made

32:28

when he was giving that initial interview

32:30

with the parents that struck him as

32:33

odd. When Sue

32:35

Onstad had been recounting the time

32:37

that they initially found out that

32:39

Christy had been missing because she

32:41

never attended school that Monday, she

32:43

said, I even asked James if

32:46

he got mad and did something to her.

32:49

Now at the time the detective asked her why

32:51

she would even ask that. And

32:54

Sue replied by saying that she

32:56

knew that James had a bad

32:58

temper. Okay. Okay,

33:01

well, that's something. That's something, it's very

33:04

odd. You know, your daughter goes missing

33:07

and then the first thing you do is you ask your boyfriend,

33:09

did you do something? Hmm.

33:11

Strange. At

33:13

the time, he remembered thinking that's not

33:16

a normal statement or question you should

33:18

be asking of your partner. And

33:21

if it was and it

33:23

was really asked, it meant that something

33:25

was wrong in their house. However,

33:28

at the time during the initial

33:30

interview, he didn't have any evidence

33:32

or any other kind

33:35

of indicator that something wrong

33:37

was happening and he didn't really even know

33:39

too much about the case yet. He

33:41

had just been assigned to it. So he didn't do

33:44

anything in that moment or kind of

33:46

press those questions. It

33:49

also made him think back to that conversation he

33:51

had with one of Christy's friends a few days

33:53

prior. The girl had said

33:55

that Christy was going to tell her something, but

33:58

that she never did, job

42:00

at disarming him and making

42:02

him feel like, yay, I know what it's like. Kids

42:04

can be really difficult to handle. Right.

42:07

But I think his overconfidence

42:09

though is

42:11

making it even more so that like,

42:13

okay, maybe you are responsible, dude. I

42:16

think it's a wild statement to say that

42:18

you don't think she's still kicking. And then

42:20

she has a big mouth. Yeah. And

42:22

that, but then you're also at the same

42:24

time, so concerned that you just started this

42:26

search, which you're currently at right now. And

42:29

the phrase itself I think is very telling

42:31

because- Yes, nonchalant. Yeah. You

42:33

have a big mouth. She has a big mouth. Okay. Well,

42:36

that would imply that she has a secret to tell or something

42:38

to say about you or her mother.

42:41

Or what's happening at home now. Right. So

42:43

why would you say that? Right. Like what

42:45

does she have a big mouth without? To me, that's indicating

42:47

motive, if anything. Well, I

42:49

think it also implies the fact that they

42:51

have a lot of fights because now

42:54

he could mean big mouth in that way or the fact

42:56

that she fights a lot. Right. But

42:58

she's also a 14-year-old girl. So it seems like

43:01

he's treating her almost like

43:03

she's not 14 years old. Correct.

43:06

And he doesn't care. That's callous. To

43:08

say, I don't think she's kicking, like

43:11

that's the callous thing to say. It

43:13

is. Especially when you have your

43:15

wife at home worried about her child. Right. So

43:18

I just, I don't know. This is all rubbing me

43:20

the wrong way. It really is. So as you can

43:22

imagine, the detective was highly disturbed by this interview as

43:24

we are. When

43:27

they got back to the command post, the detective

43:29

asked Dickey if they would be able to search

43:31

his van because it was the last place that

43:33

Christy was seen. And

43:35

maybe she had dropped something inside, like

43:37

a note. To

43:40

his surprise, Dickey agreed to the search

43:42

and signed the consent form. Using

43:45

a flashlight, the detective looked over the

43:48

van but didn't find anything inside that

43:50

was Christy's or evidence that there

43:52

had been any kind of a struggle because

43:55

the detective would later reflect that he

43:57

believed, especially in that moment, that if

43:59

Dickey did murder his stepdaughter that most

44:01

likely it had taken place in that

44:04

van, a van without

44:06

windows. So that's what

44:08

he had been looking for that day in the search,

44:11

but there had been nothing. Nothing

44:14

at all, no evidence. No evidence in the van.

44:16

Hmm. And he's

44:18

a mechanic, I mean what he did have there was

44:20

some tools. That was it. Tools

44:23

in like a toolbox? Yeah, in a

44:25

toolbox. Okay. Having no

44:27

other evidence, nothing further could be done

44:30

with James Dickey, but his

44:32

behavior was noted for the detective who

44:34

would be sure to keep watching him.

44:37

And he worried that soon he

44:40

would be investigating a homicide and not

44:42

a missing persons case. As

44:45

to what kind of investigation he was going

44:47

to have to do, the

44:49

detective would receive his answer only hours later.

44:51

At 8 30 p.m. on the night

44:53

of April 21st, he received

44:57

a phone call from the search and rescue

45:00

team that had stayed to finish the search

45:02

of the area. They

45:04

had discovered a female body near

45:06

the south end of Samish Lake

45:09

off a dirt road near Null Road,

45:12

the direction opposite of where

45:14

James Dickey had been guiding the search. Oh

45:18

my god. That's why the search and

45:20

rescue team was searching that

45:22

area later because James

45:25

Dickey had been directing the search towards

45:27

town and they found this

45:29

body eight and a half miles in

45:31

the opposite direction. So it

45:33

seems like he was leading them from you know

45:35

the opposite direction for a reason

45:38

because he was probably responsible here. Yeah. I think

45:40

that's what we're dealing with honestly. I mean I

45:42

mean why else would you do that? Yeah.

45:44

I mean in reality one way or the

45:46

other it's better that the search and rescue

45:48

team found this

45:50

crime scene because then that means it

45:52

was able to be preserved correctly. Yeah.

45:56

The two detectives that were working on the case

45:58

went to the scene. and they

46:00

were able to determine that it

46:02

was the body of 14-year-old Kristi

46:05

Onstad. This is

46:07

going to be an extremely difficult discovery of the

46:09

body to hear, so I just

46:11

want to warn you before I begin.

46:14

The detective said he will never forget the scene

46:17

as long as he lives and

46:19

that from time to time it still plays out

46:21

in his mind. It

46:24

was impossible to tell how Kristi

46:26

had died because so

46:28

many horrible things had happened to her. The

46:31

upper half of her body was covered

46:33

by a plastic tarp. She

46:36

had a shirt on but it was half pulled

46:38

off and over one of her shoulders. She

46:41

was naked from the waist down except for

46:43

a pair of socks. A

46:46

plastic bag had been placed over her head.

46:49

When the detectives removed the bag

46:52

they found a black belt still

46:54

wrapped around her neck. It

46:57

had been used to try and strangle her.

47:00

There was a metal spike sticking out

47:02

of one of her ears which

47:05

was embedded deep into her head. She

47:08

had been bludgeoned in the head with some

47:10

type of blunt object. It

47:13

was also apparent that she had been raped.

47:16

Two red flecks of paint were recovered

47:18

from her body. This is

47:20

when the detective that had spoken with

47:22

Dickey earlier that evening said

47:24

that based on what he had learned from

47:26

Dickey in that interview that he

47:29

really thought he was involved and

47:31

now the fact that the murder

47:33

was evident and Dickey had made the statements he

47:35

did, he was nervous

47:37

that this had scared Dickey. Meaning

47:40

like he might have slipped up saying

47:43

that to detectives so now he might

47:45

know that they were on to him

47:47

and that might make him paranoid. Oh

47:51

yeah absolutely. Because of this

47:53

the detective thought that maybe in an

47:55

attempt to further cover up his crime

47:58

Dickey might return to the body of of his

48:00

stepdaughter that night. Don't tell

48:02

me they canvassed it and they waited from

48:04

the comp. Well, what the detective, this was

48:06

the detective's thought process. It's

48:09

almost, it's 8.30 p.m. By

48:11

the time they got there, it was nine. There

48:13

was no way they were gonna do a good

48:15

crime scene sweep in the middle of the

48:17

night. So they might

48:20

as well see if they could maybe catch James Sticky

48:22

coming back to the scene. So

48:24

he told the search and rescue team, pick

48:26

up everything that's yours from the scene.

48:28

Let's clean it out to

48:31

make it look like this hasn't been discovered

48:33

yet. And we'll have someone

48:35

posted here, like kind of

48:37

hiding to see if he shows up.

48:39

Brilliant. So that's what they

48:41

were gonna do. And then if he doesn't show

48:44

up that night, they were gonna bring the crime

48:46

scene teams out early the next morning, which they

48:48

were gonna do anyway. Okay. Well,

48:51

Dickey never came back to the area. Damn.

48:55

So the following morning, the crime scene analysts

48:57

were called in and

48:59

a more thorough search of the area surrounding

49:01

the location of Christie's body was completed. It

49:04

was that morning that Christie's mother was

49:06

informed about the discovery of her daughter's

49:08

body. They would have

49:11

notified her that night, but

49:14

she's living with

49:16

their number one suspect. And

49:19

that makes things really tricky, as you can

49:21

imagine. Right. And that's why they waited

49:23

to let her know because they didn't

49:25

know if she was, if like this was gonna

49:27

tip him off in some way. Right, or like

49:30

he might try to run away or leave if

49:32

he is responsible. Correct. So

49:34

when they broke

49:36

the news to Sue about Christie's, the

49:40

discovery of Christie's body, and I can't imagine as

49:42

a mother hearing that that's how your daughter died,

49:47

they also asked her where James

49:49

Dickey was. And she

49:51

said that he had gone out to run errands,

49:53

but that he'll be back shortly. This

49:56

worried them. They

49:58

waited. for James

50:01

Dickey to return from running errands for

50:03

hours. They kept calling Sue back. He

50:05

wasn't there. He wasn't there. So

50:08

finally they believe that he's

50:10

now on the run. So

50:13

he actually did. Okay. That he

50:15

got nervous about what had happened the night before.

50:18

He thought the police were onto him. So,

50:20

and he probably

50:23

was thinking it's only a matter of a time

50:25

before the bodies found. So

50:27

it be on the lookout was issued for

50:29

both James Dickey and his van. Cause

50:32

it was missing. While the search

50:34

was underway for James Dickey, the detectives

50:36

decided to question some of the neighbors

50:38

to see if they had seen anything.

50:41

And one of them, the boy who had

50:43

developed a soft spot for Christie and would

50:45

sometimes defend her on the bus, said

50:48

he did notice something odd. After

50:51

Christie's disappearance, he had seen James Dickey

50:53

hosing down the inside and outside of

50:55

his van. Okay. This

50:58

is something that struck him as odd because in all

51:00

the time the family had lived there, he

51:02

never saw Dickey cleaning out his van. And

51:05

it would have been something that he noticed

51:07

because he said like all the neighborhood kids

51:09

called it like the molester van. What

51:12

if one day people think that about my

51:14

van outside? Well, it's a work van.

51:16

It's like, well, they might. No. Oh

51:18

my God. That's your dad's creepy van. No. Oh,

51:21

that's going to be you. Man. That's

51:23

okay. It's like, I need that

51:25

van. I need to go to work. It's required

51:27

for my employment. It's required. So

51:31

the community of Bellingham was shocked to

51:33

find out the fate of 14 year

51:35

old Christie Onstad. And

51:37

I hope that those children did some

51:40

reflecting and changed after that, by the

51:42

way. Yeah, I

51:44

agree. Cause we'll

51:47

get into it later. But

51:49

they were even more shocked to find

51:51

out that law enforcement's number one suspect

51:53

was James Dickey and that he

51:55

was on the run. How

51:58

could this man have done something so? brutal

52:00

to the girl that he had known since she

52:02

was five years old. There

52:04

was another layer to this that law enforcement

52:06

had never had to deal with before. They

52:09

wanted to be there for Sue. Her daughter

52:11

had been brutally murdered and

52:15

murdered in the worst way they had ever seen

52:17

and will ever see for the rest of their

52:20

careers. They wanted to comfort her

52:22

and reassure her, but they also wanted to

52:24

be really careful because they didn't know, was

52:27

James Dickey going to reach out to her?

52:29

What did she know about these crimes that

52:31

took place? It was like

52:34

really weird blurred lines at this

52:36

stage in the investigation. And

52:39

they just had to be cautious during this

52:41

time. They're going to later learn that Sue

52:43

had no idea and she

52:46

was just as blindsided by this as the community was.

52:49

The detectives went to her home after speaking

52:51

with neighbors and told her that they would

52:53

like to search the house, that

52:55

they believe that James had done this and

52:57

he had left. She seemed

53:00

to understand that he had not just gone

53:02

out to run errands anymore, that

53:04

something really bad had happened under

53:06

her roof. She

53:08

gave them permission to search her home. During

53:11

the search, law enforcement found a

53:13

box container that had several different

53:15

state identifications in it. Okay,

53:18

that's What was odd

53:20

about them was that they all had different names and

53:22

ages on them, but they

53:25

all had James Dickey's picture.

53:28

Don't tell me that this is not his name.

53:30

So who was this man? Don't

53:32

tell me. And now how

53:34

are they going to be able to find him

53:37

if he was hiding under a different alias potentially?

53:40

And more had been found

53:42

when James's van was found

53:44

abandoned at the Seattle Tacoma

53:46

International Airport. In his

53:48

van were more IDs. They

53:50

had three different names, all different

53:53

ages, but all the same

53:55

picture. What are we dealing

53:57

with here? This ever evolving

53:59

case was And

58:00

he remembered that all seven of them

58:02

would sleep huddled together on three mattresses

58:05

that had been pushed together in one corner of

58:07

the room. They

58:09

had no bathroom, and they were

58:11

kept warm with only a wood stove. He

58:14

reflected that he wasn't bothered by how they grew

58:16

up. There was always food, and they

58:18

were well taken care of. Although

58:21

Mark and Clark were twins, people

58:23

never thought that they were, because

58:25

of how different they looked, because

58:27

they were fraternal twins. He

58:29

said that he had always been bigger, and

58:32

that his brother Clark was smaller and had

58:34

a stutter. Now, Clark

58:36

Elmore is James Dickey, and

58:39

there is very often a correlation

58:41

that we see with stutterers and

58:44

those who are later found as perpetrators.

58:47

For both of these reasons, people

58:49

would tease Clark for being small

58:51

and for having a stutter, which

58:54

would make him angry and would make him

58:56

mouth off. Interesting, right?

58:58

Because that's what he says

59:00

later about Christie. Yes. And

59:03

when this would happen, he would

59:06

get into a lot of fights, or people

59:08

would want to fight him. So they'd

59:11

be waiting for him after school,

59:13

and Mark said that he always

59:15

protected his brother and prevented those

59:17

fights from happening, and stopping

59:19

his brother from getting beat up. But

59:22

that this didn't bother him at all because he loved

59:24

his brother so much. He

59:26

explained that growing up, they were inseparable, and

59:29

he said the connection between twins was very real

59:31

for them. They could sometimes

59:33

feel what each other were feeling. They

59:36

could know what the other was thinking. After

59:39

high school, the two parted ways. Clark

59:41

went all over the place, from job to

59:43

job, and developed a bit of

59:45

a drinking habit. Mark said

59:48

that he couldn't remember exactly what had

59:50

happened, but he remembered that his brother

59:52

was very unhappy, and that

59:54

at one point he was sentenced to prison for

59:56

three to five years, but he

59:58

couldn't remember what for. I

1:00:00

found out. Did you? Yeah,

1:00:02

it was for forgery and then later burglary.

1:00:06

Okay, well that makes sense because he's kind of

1:00:08

making these fake IDs too. Yes.

1:00:10

And you know, so that makes sense, I guess. When

1:00:13

Clark came out of prison, he married a

1:00:15

woman from California. However,

1:00:17

this was not something that made him

1:00:19

happy either. And in

1:00:21

1975, when she was three months pregnant,

1:00:24

he walked out on her. This

1:00:28

was something that Mark felt was unforgivable.

1:00:31

So he stepped in and helped take

1:00:33

care of his brother's wife all throughout

1:00:35

her pregnancy, making sure the

1:00:37

bills were paid, buying groceries. And

1:00:40

he was there as well as other family

1:00:42

members when his brother's

1:00:44

daughter was born. Mark

1:00:47

always stayed around and helped this woman with

1:00:49

whatever she needed. And

1:00:52

after she officially divorced Clark when their

1:00:54

daughter was eight months old, I know

1:00:56

this is wild, Mark began

1:00:58

dating her. Okay.

1:01:00

So he's dating his brother's ex-wife

1:01:02

that his brother walked out on.

1:01:05

He said that he never had an in-depth

1:01:07

conversation with his brother about this, but he

1:01:10

did say to him once on a phone

1:01:12

call, like, that's my daughter.

1:01:14

And as far as she's concerned, you're just

1:01:17

her uncle, because he goes on

1:01:19

to marry this woman and have children with her too.

1:01:22

Whoa. I know, it's wild. That

1:01:25

is actually insane. Yeah. Okay.

1:01:27

All right. Well,

1:01:29

let's keep going. Yeah. That's

1:01:32

so weird. So we

1:01:34

don't have Clark's

1:01:36

feelings on this, on

1:01:39

the surface. He seemed not to care because

1:01:41

he didn't want the responsibility of this daughter,

1:01:43

but like we're unsure of what his feelings

1:01:45

about this situation were deep down. But

1:01:49

it's a complicated dynamic

1:01:52

because it is

1:01:55

not right to walk out

1:01:58

on your wife and

1:02:00

your child. That's that's never something that's

1:02:03

commendable. But you did that.

1:02:05

You made that choice. But now even though

1:02:07

you made that choice, your family's like, nope,

1:02:09

can't do it. And like, I'm going to

1:02:11

marry her now. It's

1:02:13

like, yeah, that's terrible. But then it's overshadowed

1:02:15

by something even worse. So your twin brother

1:02:17

marries her. That's weird. It's a it's a

1:02:19

wild situation. What's going on, man? But I

1:02:22

mean, it is nice that this girl is

1:02:24

being raised by someone who cares about her

1:02:26

and loves her. So like, despite whoever

1:02:28

it is, I mean, I you'd

1:02:30

want her to grow up in a healthy environment.

1:02:32

Hopefully she's told the kind of truth about the

1:02:35

situation because to find out that your uncle is

1:02:37

really your father later on in life would be

1:02:39

complicated. I would feel I think

1:02:41

even though you'd be trying to do some justice there,

1:02:44

I feel like all you're doing is making it more

1:02:46

convoluted. Yeah. Well,

1:02:48

Mark, Mark is going to say, like, the way

1:02:50

he explains it is a little bit more chivalrous.

1:02:55

And it seems to like have made

1:02:57

sense because it happened over time. It

1:03:00

wasn't just something that like immediately

1:03:02

took place. But like, it

1:03:05

had been over like two years and then they started

1:03:07

dating. But anyway, anyway,

1:03:09

anyway, Mark said that his brother had done

1:03:11

something wrong and he loved making it right

1:03:13

was his uh, and he said he truly

1:03:15

loved his wife and listen, they stayed together.

1:03:18

Yeah, that's true. So yeah. Yeah. For

1:03:22

years, the brothers didn't talk, obviously,

1:03:25

until they reconnected later on closer

1:03:27

to when the crime took place.

1:03:30

And Clark asked if they could

1:03:32

get together. He visited his brother

1:03:34

at his home with his ex

1:03:36

wife and like his child. And

1:03:39

he brought Christie along with him. Mark

1:03:42

said that for the first time he thought

1:03:45

that Clark seemed happy. He seemed like he

1:03:47

had done a complete 180 and that everything

1:03:49

was going right in his life. And

1:03:52

he thought that maybe his brother was

1:03:55

making amends for what he did by

1:03:57

walking out on his own family. by

1:04:00

doing that with Sue and helping her

1:04:02

raise Christy. Okay.

1:04:05

So that's like kind of what he was

1:04:07

thinking, like writing a wrong in his own

1:04:09

life by doing it for someone else. However,

1:04:12

there were a few odd things that happened

1:04:14

that day, the first time they kind of

1:04:17

reconnected. First was Clark told

1:04:19

him that he changed his name. The

1:04:21

first thing he said was, I'm going by

1:04:24

James Lee Dickey now. So if that's what

1:04:26

Christy calls me, she's gonna call me James.

1:04:28

And if anyone calls me that, that's

1:04:30

just like what I'm going by now. And Mark thought

1:04:32

it was odd, but figured his brother just maybe

1:04:35

wanted a fresh new start, especially because he

1:04:37

had a record, you know? Okay.

1:04:40

During that visit, Christy had befriended

1:04:42

Mark's daughter. Well, kind of

1:04:44

Clark's daughter too, but you know what I mean.

1:04:47

And the two girls went to play

1:04:49

downstairs in the basement. Mark remembered thinking

1:04:52

it was odd that his brother was

1:04:54

constantly checking on the girls. It

1:04:56

was like he didn't wanna leave Christy alone. And

1:04:59

he told his brother, like, stop bugging them. The

1:05:02

kids don't want the adults down there. They're just

1:05:04

playing. And Mark

1:05:06

and his wife thought maybe Clark

1:05:10

was just a really strict parent. They

1:05:13

didn't know because they just hadn't seen him in

1:05:16

like a decade. Right. So

1:05:18

they didn't, and you don't know what someone's gonna be like as

1:05:20

a parent. It could be very different than how they are as

1:05:22

a person. That's true. But it

1:05:24

was about a year later, when out of the

1:05:26

blue, Mark received a phone call from his mother

1:05:30

that all of those things connected in his mind. His

1:05:33

mother told him that Christy was missing and

1:05:35

the family was distraught over it. But

1:05:38

Mark just got this feeling and it clicked.

1:05:41

That all the times his brother had visited,

1:05:43

he wasn't just going downstairs to

1:05:45

make sure Christy was behaving or

1:05:48

making sure that, you know, the girls were

1:05:50

okay. He was making sure

1:05:52

that Christy wasn't saying anything down there. Saying

1:05:55

and right. Like telling the girl. And

1:05:59

that's probably why Christy. She didn't have a lot

1:06:01

of friends and they move from place to place

1:06:03

so often. She couldn't connect with someone.

1:06:06

See how she wasn't ready to tell her friend yet what

1:06:08

was happening at home? And

1:06:11

it's kind of like he'd conditioned her to be scared

1:06:13

about this. And

1:06:16

he knew immediately that something bad happened to

1:06:18

Christy and that he knew his brother was

1:06:20

responsible for it. That was very

1:06:23

interesting that he would like see that automatically

1:06:25

like be like, Hey, you know what? I

1:06:27

think he's done something. I think like

1:06:29

he was kind of saying that like

1:06:31

in this like capacity to know your

1:06:33

twin in a deeper way and

1:06:36

you want to think the best of them. And that's

1:06:38

kind of what he did his whole life was want

1:06:40

to think the best of his brother. And

1:06:43

then when he heard Christy was missing, it just like

1:06:46

he came to this realization of like, I have to

1:06:48

stop living in denial that my brother's bad person. Very

1:06:52

interesting. And his guilt

1:06:54

is what made him call the police and

1:06:57

say like, I know who

1:06:59

you're looking for. His name is Clark Elmore. I

1:07:01

believe my brother did this. And

1:07:05

you know, he was very distraught over the whole

1:07:07

thing. It's emotional. It really is.

1:07:10

And it's almost like I know it's an

1:07:12

odd situation when I first tell you, but

1:07:15

it's almost like Mark has spent his

1:07:18

whole life cleaning up his

1:07:20

brother's messes. Yes.

1:07:23

Making sure he didn't get beat up at school, taking

1:07:25

care of the family that he left behind. And

1:07:28

now this. Yeah. At every

1:07:30

stage in his life, it looks like he's been

1:07:33

picking up the pieces. Yeah. I

1:07:35

know the whole thing with like the twin stuff. I know

1:07:37

some people think that there's like an

1:07:39

interesting connection that's exclusive to twins and

1:07:41

maybe here that's kind of what's going

1:07:43

on here. Yeah, I believe that.

1:07:45

Yeah, I do too. There's something going on there. But

1:07:50

police would not have to go on

1:07:52

a massive manhunt to find James Dickey

1:07:55

or Clark Elmore because

1:07:57

he came to them. Oh.

1:12:01

wanting to put up with that. And

1:12:03

he wasn't expecting that from her because

1:12:06

she had been his victim for nine years and

1:12:08

now she didn't want to be a victim anymore.

1:12:10

And he didn't know how to handle that. And

1:12:13

that's what took place. So I think that's the

1:12:15

correlation between the running away is

1:12:18

her slowly beginning to gain her confidence

1:12:20

because maybe she was finally finding a

1:12:22

place. I agree. I agree with that.

1:12:24

I do. Which is so sad. It is. So

1:12:29

Elmore said that he wanted to kill

1:12:31

her every time she made that threat

1:12:33

against him. He

1:12:35

also commented that he wished

1:12:38

she would have just followed through with it

1:12:40

because eventually it cost her her life.

1:12:43

Unbelievable. Elmore said that

1:12:45

when she brought it up again on the

1:12:47

17th, he told her to shut up and

1:12:49

that he would drive her to school. He

1:12:53

said that they were driving towards the school.

1:12:55

But along the way he snapped. Instead

1:12:58

of taking her to school, he just

1:13:00

kept driving. After

1:13:02

about 20 minutes of driving, he

1:13:05

reached the area of Lake Samish.

1:13:08

He said he pulled the van off

1:13:10

to a secluded dirt road and

1:13:13

then he unbuckled Christy's seatbelt. This is like

1:13:15

going to be really difficult. So if this

1:13:17

is something you don't want to hear, then

1:13:20

I would fast forward about three minutes. After

1:13:23

he unbuckled her seatbelt, he told

1:13:25

her that it was time that

1:13:27

she learned to do as she was told or

1:13:29

she'd get seriously hurt. He then grabbed

1:13:31

her by the shirt and pulled her into the back of

1:13:33

the van. He told her to

1:13:35

take off her clothes or she was going to get hurt.

1:13:38

She refused, so he forcibly removed

1:13:41

them. He said that

1:13:43

she cried and pleaded with him, but he raped

1:13:45

her. He said that she

1:13:47

knew she wasn't strong enough to fight me,

1:13:50

so she didn't. Now Christy was 105

1:13:54

pounds. So she was relatively

1:13:56

tall for her age. She was 5'6", but

1:13:58

she was very slim. And

1:14:01

I think that this is a telling statement

1:14:03

that he made because it means He

1:14:06

said she knew she was not strong

1:14:08

enough to fight me Meaning

1:14:10

that this had happened before when she was

1:14:13

at a similar size, right? Correct. I mean,

1:14:15

that's what I would gather from that. Yeah

1:14:19

The rest comes directly from the

1:14:21

court transcripts After

1:14:24

raping Christie Elmore placed his hands

1:14:26

around her neck and manually choked

1:14:28

her He then wrapped his

1:14:30

belt around her neck and cinched it tightly

1:14:34

Afterward To ensure

1:14:36

that she was dead He

1:14:39

took a nine-inch metal needle

1:14:41

like tool from his toolbox

1:14:44

and forced it into Christie's left ear

1:14:47

approximately five and a half inches in piercing

1:14:50

Christie's brain Oh

1:14:53

my god Elmore thought

1:14:55

Christie was still making noises

1:14:58

so he covered her head with a

1:15:00

plastic bag to stop blood from getting

1:15:02

all over the van and Repeatedly

1:15:05

bludgeoned her skull with a sledgehammer

1:15:09

Until he was sure she was dead Elmore

1:15:12

then dragged Christie's nude body into the

1:15:14

woods Covered her

1:15:16

with a plastic drop cloth and

1:15:19

got back into his van and drove away

1:15:22

on the way back to town Elmore

1:15:25

threw Christie's shoes Underwear

1:15:28

and school papers out the window He

1:15:31

then stopped for gas and continued

1:15:33

on with his day That's

1:15:36

disgusting That is so

1:15:38

disgusting. Yeah, and I

1:15:40

think what he's asking them to believe is

1:15:43

ridiculous Meaning that

1:15:45

this Had only happened

1:15:48

twice in the whole time that he had

1:15:50

been in Christie's life And I do I just

1:15:52

don't think that that's true and every piece

1:15:55

of evidence and other statements He had

1:15:57

he's made has spoken against that I

1:16:00

think this man is a complete monster and that

1:16:02

she was standing up for herself and

1:16:04

he wasn't ready to have

1:16:08

whatever he was doing. And I think he planned on doing

1:16:10

that for the rest of her life. Or

1:16:13

as long as he could have. Yeah. He

1:16:15

said that the next day he went

1:16:17

out and tossed her backpack into the

1:16:19

ditch on Samish way. And that on

1:16:22

Wednesday he cleaned out his van. He

1:16:24

said that he had been contacting the media

1:16:27

and talking about what a bad job the

1:16:29

police were doing in the search for Christie

1:16:31

to draw the heat off himself and

1:16:34

to help cover his tracks. He

1:16:38

said that once he knew the police were onto him,

1:16:40

he fled. Now, remember

1:16:42

he fled the morning after Christie's body was

1:16:44

discovered, but he also hadn't know he didn't

1:16:46

know that her body was discovered at that

1:16:49

point. And he told Sue that

1:16:51

he was just going to go out running errands. He

1:16:54

first drove to Seattle Tacoma airport

1:16:57

from there. He caught a bus to Eugene

1:16:59

Oregon where he obtained new

1:17:01

identification. Remember he he's going to Oregon

1:17:03

because that's where he grew up and

1:17:06

he got this new identification using his

1:17:08

twin brother's name. Are

1:17:10

you kidding? Yeah. He was going to live

1:17:12

under his brother's name somewhere else. Unbelievable.

1:17:16

See, so he doesn't even care about his

1:17:18

brother. He doesn't care about anybody but himself.

1:17:20

It's true. And something

1:17:23

made him abandon this plan. I think he

1:17:25

just knew that he wasn't going to be

1:17:27

able to keep everything

1:17:29

up. I

1:17:31

mean, he's literally living under a different alias. I

1:17:33

mean, and he's been doing that at some point,

1:17:35

you know, you're going to get caught. Right. So

1:17:37

he drove back and he made

1:17:40

his confession. The detectives

1:17:42

and the prosecutors did not believe

1:17:44

this was a one time situation. And

1:17:47

in reflecting on the hell and torment

1:17:50

that that poor girl had to live with

1:17:52

her entire life and the

1:17:54

horrific way in which she had to die because

1:17:57

she was trying to stand up for herself. decided

1:18:00

to charge him with the death penalty. Although

1:18:03

Elmore had confessed, because they were

1:18:05

seeking the death penalty, he was

1:18:07

entitled to a trial to determine

1:18:09

if there had been mitigating factors,

1:18:11

which would then essentially take the

1:18:14

death penalty option off the table.

1:18:16

And although this was going to be hard to get through,

1:18:19

Sue Onstead supported the trial because she

1:18:21

thought that death would be too good

1:18:24

for Clark Elmore, for what he had

1:18:26

done to her daughter. She

1:18:28

told the Bellingham Herald that the family just

1:18:30

wanted it to be done and over with.

1:18:33

It's going to cause more pain and suffering

1:18:35

for us. We've had enough. Christie's

1:18:38

biological father also supported the

1:18:40

death penalty and the trial

1:18:42

happening, they just wanted it to be speedy. During

1:18:45

the trial, and

1:18:47

this is something that like wasn't

1:18:50

found until they were doing the investigation

1:18:52

for the trial to take place because

1:18:55

they were trying to look for witnesses

1:18:57

that were going to corroborate the confession

1:19:01

that he gave. Well, they found

1:19:03

an eighth grade boy. Imagine

1:19:06

you're like, you have to testify in this

1:19:08

trial. So during the

1:19:10

trial, an eighth grade boy testified that

1:19:13

he saw Christie in a van fighting

1:19:15

with a man that he like

1:19:18

identified as Clark Elmore. And

1:19:22

in that trial, there were found to be

1:19:25

no mitigating factors. Really what his defense was

1:19:28

trying to claim was that he

1:19:31

had brain damage of some kind.

1:19:34

So what's interesting is that they were claiming

1:19:37

that where he grew up in Oregon, all

1:19:39

the toxins in the ground, toxins

1:19:41

that he was introduced to

1:19:43

throughout his whole life living in the Pacific

1:19:45

Northwest. He also went to Vietnam where he

1:19:48

had to do

1:19:50

significant work with Agent Orange, that

1:19:54

there was a point he'd been living somewhere and he'd been

1:19:56

beaten up really bad. So we got to keep it going.

1:26:01

I think that saved a lot of lives, but it

1:26:03

is true We just have to always be you know

1:26:06

looking for signs and looking a little Deeper

1:26:08

into maybe why someone's acting the way they are

1:26:10

yeah, we need to be vigilant, and I think

1:26:12

that is a Community thing

1:26:15

I don't think it's just within your

1:26:17

four walls so to speak of your

1:26:19

home right I think that's a community thing

1:26:21

so I agree Okay,

1:26:24

well that concludes This

1:26:27

case and what we're

1:26:29

going to do next time is we're gonna

1:26:31

list all of our patreon supporters We're gonna

1:26:33

have that list for you So so

1:26:36

if you've joined since the last episode be

1:26:38

sure to listen for your name in the

1:26:40

next episode coming up Okay,

1:26:42

guys, and in this case. We

1:26:44

really mean it until next time

1:26:47

don't park next to Vance bye guys