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word of warning. This podcast explores

1:01

graphic and disturbing stories and includes

1:04

some strong language. It therefore may

1:06

not be suitable for our young

1:08

listeners or other folks who may

1:10

find it disturbing. Hello and

1:12

welcome to True Crime News, the

1:14

podcast covering high profile and under

1:16

the radar cases from across the

1:18

country every week. No,

1:21

ladies and gentlemen, your eyes and ears

1:23

are not playing tricks on you. I

1:25

am Josh Ritter. I am your host

1:27

for today, filling in for Anna Garcia.

1:29

Do not worry. Anna will be back next

1:31

week. In the meantime, I am going to

1:33

do my best and please try

1:36

to be gentle on me. Our

1:38

cases for this week include authorities

1:40

apprehend a suspect they believe

1:42

is responsible for a crime

1:44

spree spanning multiple states and

1:47

countries. The search for the

1:49

suspect heated up after the assault and murder

1:51

of a mother of five on a hiking

1:53

trail in Maryland. Authorities were able

1:55

to obtain DNA from the victim and tie

1:57

the suspect to a break-in where a a

2:00

nine-year-old girl and her mother were both

2:02

assaulted in Los Angeles. This

2:04

led agents to the murder of

2:06

a woman in El Salvador, where

2:08

the suspect was allegedly from before

2:10

fleeing to the US. While the

2:12

man is awaiting charges, detectives continue

2:15

to search for other potential victims

2:17

who may have suffered at the

2:19

hands of this alleged killer. But

2:21

first, a man who brutally stabbed his

2:24

estranged wife as part of what he

2:26

called a prophecy is found

2:28

not guilty by reason of insanity. While

2:31

three psychologists agreed the man was suffering

2:33

severe psychosis at the time of the

2:35

alleged killing, the victim's family is demanding

2:37

justice for the brutal murder of their

2:39

loved one. We are recording this on

2:42

Thursday, June 20th, 2024. Our

2:45

guest today is Luis Bolanos,

2:47

a law enforcement expert, private

2:49

investigator, and dear friend of

2:51

the show. Luis, welcome back.

2:54

Hi, Josh, thanks so much. Happy to be

2:56

here, and I'm very excited working with you

2:58

for the first time on The Big Fat.

3:00

I know, we were both talking about that.

3:02

It's nice to meet you, at least virtually

3:05

over screens here. I've been a fan of

3:07

yours for a while, watching you every time

3:09

you're a guest with Anna, and so I'm

3:11

really looking forward to having this conversation today,

3:13

especially given the topics that we're going to

3:15

be getting into. Let's jump

3:18

in then. First, talking about

3:20

Michael Murrah was

3:22

found not guilty by reason

3:24

of insanity for killing his wife,

3:26

Monica, also known as Star Murrah.

3:29

Prior to the murder, the marriage between

3:32

Michael and Monica Murrah was tumultuous at

3:34

best. Monica alleged that Michael

3:36

was physically abusive to her and their

3:38

son, who was eight years old at

3:40

the time of the murder. Reportedly,

3:43

police were called to the couple's home

3:45

on multiple occasions, however, it appears that

3:47

no charges were ever filed. In

3:50

July of 2020, the pair separated, and

3:53

Monica attempted to file a restraining order

3:55

against Michael claiming physical and emotional abuse.

3:58

In the filing, the mother also detailed... Michael's

4:00

threats to harm himself, writing

4:03

Michael has threatened suicide during arguments.

4:05

One time he even grabbed a

4:07

large knife and sat outside our

4:10

bedroom threatening to kill himself. I'm

4:12

terrified if he does. What if

4:14

he kills me and our son? Louis, this

4:17

is the part that really started

4:19

to disturb me about this story,

4:21

because despite her claim, she was

4:24

denied the protective order. The

4:26

response to the order said that

4:28

a preponderance the evidence has

4:30

not been established that there is domestic

4:32

violence. What was your reaction

4:34

to that? Were you frustrated by this? I mean,

4:36

is this where we're seeing the system fail a

4:39

person yet again? Yet again,

4:41

yeah, no, I agree with you 100%. This

4:43

is another case that seems like very

4:45

well could have been preventable. And

4:48

of course, in the case, none of these are 100% preventable,

4:51

but my goodness, they could have really,

4:53

really slowed down the progress of

4:55

the availability of this clown monster, the

4:58

husband to her. And

5:00

I find it very difficult to believe that

5:03

all the officers and all the contacts they

5:05

had responding to a DV called domestic violence

5:07

call, that they were

5:10

not able to find any type of

5:12

evidence, anything to corroborate what she was

5:14

claiming, zero. Right. And

5:18

it is a growing issue. So I

5:20

think the odds against that are

5:23

almost nil. You're gonna find something, whether

5:25

it's a statement from the suspect, whether

5:28

the child was there, was there a witness

5:30

to this ongoing screaming? We all know domestic

5:32

violence does not have to be just a

5:34

physical, it could be mental and emotional or

5:36

a combination of all three. In

5:39

this case, it just seems like that had

5:41

to be there, those opportunities were there. And

5:44

I made a note to myself, I would

5:46

love to review all the body

5:48

cam footage, all the contacts, if they have them.

5:51

The reports, the 911 calls to see if

5:53

there's any hint of another way of corroborating

5:55

what she was saying. But

5:58

this just seems across this country. I

8:00

mean, that should have been enough just

8:02

in itself. So- You

8:04

would think so. Yeah. You would think

8:07

so. To that point, as

8:10

his mental state deteriorated, Michael sought

8:12

psychiatric help between August of 2020

8:14

and November of 2021. At

8:18

this time, Michael was reportedly experiencing,

8:20

and this is what you were

8:23

bringing out, hallucinations, hearing voices, psychosis,

8:25

and religious delusion. Is that enough

8:28

to you? Do you think the judge should have given that

8:30

order? Oh yes, I would have highlighted

8:32

that at the top of my affidavit. Absolutely, that

8:34

would be a starting point. And from that, you

8:36

can build from that, but clearly

8:38

that would have been more than enough

8:41

in these courts. You would hope

8:43

so. You would hope so because even if

8:45

they err on the side of being overly

8:48

cautious, they may have saved a life, especially

8:50

in a case like this, where I

8:52

think you and I see eye to eye that

8:55

this was something that was preventable or more should

8:57

have certainly been done. To

9:00

continue on, the pair was scheduled to appear

9:02

in divorce court in February of 2022. However,

9:05

Monica tragically would not survive

9:07

to see that court date.

9:11

On November 7th, 2021, Michael

9:14

went to Monica's home and attacked her

9:16

while the couple's eight-year-old son was in

9:18

the house. According to Michael, he barged

9:21

into the home with a Bible

9:23

in his hand, speaking to his

9:25

wife about a supposed

9:27

prophecy. He then stabbed

9:29

Monica multiple times, targeting her neck.

9:32

The couple's son, eight years old, ran

9:35

to a neighbor's house following the incident,

9:37

screaming for help. A responding neighbor found

9:39

Monica in a pool of her own

9:41

blood and called 911 immediately. Michael

9:44

was still in the house at the time, holding the

9:46

knife, and the neighbor ordered him to

9:49

leave. Louis, I wanted to pause for

9:51

a moment to, can

9:53

we just talk about the trauma that this young

9:55

man has experienced at eight years old, seeing

9:58

his father stabbed him? to death, his

10:00

mother. I mean, is this this

10:03

kid's never going to recover from this, is he? No,

10:05

it's going to be with the rest of his life. It's going to be

10:08

part of him forever. You know, and that's

10:10

a whole other side of this that that goes

10:13

under the carpet here. And

10:15

that, you know, probably, well, very likely

10:18

not the first time that child has

10:20

seen that type of behavior, violent behavior

10:22

or DV incidents between mom

10:24

and dad. And

10:27

so really, everything came to fruition. But really, what

10:29

really sticks out to me with what you

10:32

just went over there, Josh, is

10:35

the bravery of this kid and his mental

10:38

wherewithal to run to the

10:40

neighbor and ask her and

10:42

get the neighbor to call 911. His

10:45

mom was still alive, so I don't know if

10:48

she was able to vocalize or get to

10:50

communicate with him somehow to go next door.

10:52

But he did that. And

10:54

in my mind, he's a

10:56

hero. Yeah, that if

11:01

the clown, the monster would have escaped

11:04

that scene, you just don't know if

11:06

he had another prophecy in mind, right?

11:09

You are 100% right. And

11:11

that's something I hadn't thought of that that young

11:13

man was so brave in that moment, he didn't

11:16

he didn't hide under, you know,

11:18

a table and just wait and see

11:20

how this whole thing played out. He

11:22

may have prevented other loss of life

11:24

by running to the neighbor's house. You're

11:27

absolutely right to to applaud him for

11:29

all that he was going through in

11:31

that moment. Grown

11:33

men like ourselves, I think we'd have

11:35

a hard time handling having seen something

11:37

like that. And for him to be

11:39

able to have the wherewithal to go

11:41

to the neighbors is pretty incredible. Police

11:45

officers responded to her residence just after

11:47

1030am and found Michael

11:49

standing outside with a knife. Officers

11:52

noted his hands were stained with

11:54

blood. Meanwhile, Monica was rushed to

11:56

a local hospital with numerous injuries.

11:58

However, she succumbed to her injuries

12:01

later that day. All

12:03

right, this is where we start to get into a

12:05

little bit of an, not an

12:07

understanding, I think that's probably the

12:09

right wrong word, but a little

12:11

bit of an insight as to

12:13

what was going on in this

12:15

man's mind and what led to

12:17

later on the defense that his

12:19

attorneys brought up in court. But

12:21

according to authorities, Michael was Mirandized

12:23

at the scene, waved

12:26

those rights, admitted to stabbing

12:28

someone he identified as quote,

12:30

star beast. Remember, her nickname

12:32

was star. Michael

12:34

told the responding officers that he

12:36

had quote, killed star beast to

12:38

fulfill a prophecy. Michael

12:40

believed he was fulfilling a

12:42

commandment and prophecy

12:45

from the Lord and Savior Jesus

12:47

Christ. Jesus told him to

12:49

make a sacrifice for the good of

12:51

all. Okay. And this

12:53

was something when I was preparing for this,

12:56

Louis, that I was particularly interested in hearing

12:58

your thoughts on later

13:00

when the police interview Michael, he appeared to

13:02

be so much more, more lucid. This is

13:04

not, you know, after now he's at the

13:07

scene still holding the knife covered in blood.

13:09

He's back at the station. He

13:11

chillingly tells officers that he quote,

13:13

wanted to take revenge on his

13:15

wife and save their child. This

13:18

is why I start to get

13:20

bothered even further by this case. From

13:24

a legal standpoint, insanity is not, and you

13:26

know this, insanity is not

13:28

what we all think of in a

13:30

common sense of being crazy, being insane.

13:34

From a legal perspective, it is a

13:36

person who is incapable of knowing or

13:38

understanding the nature or quality of what

13:40

they do. And

13:43

more importantly, understanding that what they did

13:45

was morally or legally wrong. So and

13:48

I know I'm doing a huge buildup here, but I want to

13:51

get your thoughts. It's one

13:53

thing to say, I'm fulfilling a prophecy.

13:55

I'm doing this for Jesus Christ. I'm

13:57

doing this for, she's a, you know.

14:00

a demon or the star beast or whatever you

14:02

want to call her. You

14:04

can believe all of that, but as

14:06

long as you know what you're doing

14:08

is wrong, you're not legally insane. He

14:11

said he was taking revenge. Doesn't

14:13

that, how do you

14:16

square that? Doesn't that show some sort

14:18

of understanding of what he's doing? Oh,

14:20

absolutely. Those two different things completely. And

14:23

his defense was, right, based on his, the

14:25

three psychologists that evaluated him,

14:28

was that he was in and out of psychosis.

14:30

He just never knew when. And in that moment

14:32

of time, when he committed this brutal murder, horrible,

14:35

violent, brutal murder, he was

14:37

in some mental state where he just didn't understand what was

14:40

going around him. And on every time I've heard that, I'm

14:42

sure you two in the past on other cases, and

14:45

you can see where they're gonna be going

14:47

with this as the investigation continues, you

14:49

know where they're going. And it's just, there's just

14:52

so many, I call BS when I hear that

14:54

first of all. Because 99% of the

14:56

time is exactly what it is. So

14:59

at that moment in time, you're telling me he

15:01

did not know the difference of right or wrong.

15:03

Which in my experience, I'm interested in hearing

15:05

your history on this, but

15:07

it's a very low threshold to

15:09

prove that he does know the

15:12

difference between right and wrong. So

15:15

we've done things when I would get

15:17

someone, a case like

15:19

this when someone is starting to claim that. We'd

15:21

wanna nip it at the bud. There were simple things we

15:23

would do, right? We

15:25

would go to the US investigators for the prosecutor's office

15:27

and also for the Sheriff's Department. We would go either

15:30

do a surveillance on this individual and

15:32

see how he handles himself during the day. Is

15:36

he driving? Well, if he's driving, are

15:38

there signs posted? Don't turn

15:40

here and there's a red light and there's

15:43

green. He understands right and wrong between those.

15:45

Or a phone call where he's describing how

15:47

to connect a battery cable to a car to

15:50

charge another car. Something that takes thought,

15:53

a process. Something

15:55

that's right or wrong.

15:57

And in this instance, he drove to

15:59

the house. I don't know how far he

16:01

drove. I don't know how many laws he had to abide by

16:03

to get there with a weapon So

16:05

there's some planning ahead of time editing

16:07

with the Bible, right? So you tell

16:09

me he does everything He knows difference

16:11

between right and wrong on the way

16:13

there Probably a dozen samples examples of

16:15

it as he's traveling to go

16:18

commit this horrible crime But

16:20

the minute he gets out of the car and

16:22

all goes out the window. It just sounds so

16:24

convenient and you know It's

16:27

a defense that I think we're you know with this one

16:29

you're gonna see party more and more of these trying to

16:31

pop up I'm I'm

16:33

concerned that it may be you know The beginning

16:35

of an avalanche of these type of cases based

16:38

on this one if that threshold

16:40

everybody's gonna want to get in this judges court Yeah.

16:43

Yeah, I I agree with you. I

16:47

Think anytime you see an insanity defense

16:50

People go way to okay, you

16:52

know Let's pump the brakes

16:55

for a second here because it sounds

16:57

like I Don't

16:59

have any other better defense. I don't got

17:01

an alibi. I don't got I

17:03

don't have a self-defense I don't have any other

17:05

explanation for this So I'm just gonna go ahead

17:07

and say I was crazy and you

17:10

know not to be overly cynical about it You

17:12

do see a lot of cases where they're bringing

17:14

this defense and there is not much to it

17:17

and To your point

17:19

about how do you mitigate that you know,

17:21

somebody just says I was insane I don't

17:23

know what I was doing at the time,

17:25

especially when they're claiming temporary insanity It's not

17:27

even that I you know, I continue to

17:29

suffer from this but I was just suffering

17:31

from it at the time I

17:34

had a case where The

17:36

person had killed their father very similar

17:39

to this killed their father and believed

17:41

their father was the great dragon And

17:43

so it was the same kind of

17:46

delusion that what they were doing was

17:50

Somehow righteous and

17:52

you could see this defense being

17:55

built in there But the person

17:57

ran afterwards when the police arrived

17:59

they ran They, I

18:01

believe, if my memory serves me right, they got

18:03

rid of the weapon and we were able to

18:05

show that listen, those are, we know

18:08

the term for this, consciousness of guilt

18:10

actions. Well, if you have consciousness of

18:13

guilt, that means you understand

18:15

what you did was wrong. Now you may

18:17

not, you may have

18:19

these feelings for why

18:21

you did it. And those feelings may be, there

18:25

was some sort of righteous cause, but you

18:27

still know that it was legally wrong or

18:29

morally wrong what you did. That's why you

18:32

were hiding it. And that was many

18:34

times a persuasive argument in these types of

18:36

cases. Unfortunately here, it did

18:38

not seem to carry the day. Right.

18:42

I wanted to ask you, please. He's

18:44

claiming Josh, of course, that he had

18:47

issues where he just couldn't understand what

18:49

was going on. That's a scene. And

18:51

I think at a further interview, they,

18:53

they Mirandaized him and he waved Miranda.

18:56

How did that affect it down the road?

18:58

Did he have the ability to understand Miranda,

19:00

the good and bad of it? And does

19:02

that put what he said as fruit is

19:04

a poisonous tree, something that may be susceptible

19:06

later? I'm

19:08

so glad you pointed that out. I thought

19:10

about that too. Later on, we're going to

19:12

get into it. He's found fit to

19:14

stand trial at court too. So I mean,

19:17

it's the, there are several kinds of checkpoints

19:19

along the way where someone evaluated what he

19:21

was doing and felt that that was fine,

19:23

except for apparently the murder. We're

19:26

going to get into it. There was one other wrinkle

19:29

here I wanted to ask you about. Another potential motive

19:31

in the crime was uncovered on November 8th of 2021,

19:34

when Michael's cell phone was

19:36

mysteriously sent to the court

19:38

commissioner's mailbox. A judicial assistant

19:40

received the package with a note containing a

19:43

passcode to the cell phone and

19:45

a note which read, "'Review Star

19:47

Murrah and Michael Murrah' text. Michael

19:50

had a contact list as star

19:53

beast and had text messages

19:55

exchanged with that person regarding the

19:58

recent vaccination of their cell phone." done.

20:01

This was so bizarre to me. And

20:03

it's in the the mode of being

20:05

that perhaps this was a a

20:08

a marital conflict

20:11

gone completely haywire regarding

20:13

vaccinations. But this

20:15

idea that somebody secretly dropped this off. What do

20:17

you what do you make of that? You ever

20:19

dealt with something like that before? Absolutely.

20:23

People have a variety of reasons why they

20:25

don't like to take stuff directly law enforcement.

20:27

They want to stay anonymous. And

20:30

who knows? Maybe they feared for their safety

20:32

and it sounds like with this clown around

20:34

that that's justified. But you

20:36

know, I don't know why they didn't come forward

20:38

because if they had that information in the cell

20:40

phone, then you had to get in it. So

20:42

it's obviously somebody close to the victim enough

20:45

to know her passcode. Maybe

20:48

they knew more that could have helped give

20:50

that a reason behind it. And if they

20:52

would have that might have been enough to

20:54

show his mental state. Very

20:57

good point. Very good point. I

20:59

don't we don't know. Stories

21:02

have never revealed who the source was. But you're right.

21:04

Maybe that didn't

21:06

that person didn't want to be involved. But perhaps

21:08

they should have in retrospect. Michael

21:11

was charged with first degree murder. He

21:13

was detained on $2 million bond. He

21:15

pleaded not guilty to the charges on

21:17

November 19, 2021.

21:19

In December of that year, a judge ordered a

21:21

competency hearing. This was what I was talking about

21:23

talking about for Michael, where the

21:25

court ultimately deemed the man was fit

21:27

to stand trial. Now, there's

21:29

a difference here, just so everybody

21:32

understands being between being fit to

21:34

stand trial and a legal insanity

21:36

defense. Here the judge is

21:38

making the finding that it's

21:40

very low standard, can they essentially

21:44

effectively participate in their own defense? Do they

21:46

know they're on trial? Do they know who

21:48

the judge is? Do they know who the

21:51

prosecutor is? Do they know who their attorney

21:53

is? And can they answer their attorney's question?

21:55

So much lower standard. But to

21:58

your point, Louis. what

22:01

we were talking about earlier when being

22:03

Mirandized obviously people are looking at this

22:05

person and realizing they can function enough,

22:08

correct? Right, right. Yeah.

22:11

But apparently not enough to

22:14

be held responsible for murder. Yeah,

22:17

that's why we call BS on this.

22:19

Okay. Something I miss there. Something

22:22

I miss. The

22:24

murder charge was eventually upgraded to account

22:26

of aggravated first degree murder which would

22:28

carry a sentence of life without parole

22:30

if convicted during the trial. And

22:32

this is what you mentioned earlier.

22:35

Two forensic psychologists testified that Michael

22:37

was undergoing psychosis at the time

22:39

of the incident. Meanwhile,

22:41

a third forensic psychologist submitted a

22:43

written report corroborating the findings of

22:45

the other two experts. While the

22:47

psychologist did not reach a consensus on

22:49

a specific diagnosis, they unanimously agreed that

22:52

Michael was not in his right state

22:54

of mind at the time of the

22:56

murder. And here's their crucial

22:58

finding. He could not tell right

23:01

from wrong. Michael

23:03

Murrow was found not guilty by

23:05

reason of insanity for killing his

23:07

wife Monica. A judge subsequently required

23:09

Murrow to be sent to a

23:11

Western state hospital and not to

23:13

have any contact with Monica Murrow's

23:15

family, including their son. Tell

23:19

us a little bit about these state hospitals here.

23:21

I mean, this isn't a prison, correct? I mean,

23:23

he's going to be in a mental health facility.

23:26

It's locked down, but not prison. It's

23:28

locked down, right? And

23:30

his movement is mitigated, of

23:32

course, but in no

23:34

way is it a state

23:36

prison. This is really a step up

23:39

from that facility, from staying in a

23:41

federal, sorry, state prison. So

23:44

is that the motive for him to be able to stay

23:46

there? And is why would they

23:49

bring this issue? 100%, right? I

23:52

mean, and perhaps more than that,

23:54

perhaps if he's well

23:57

one day, he might get out. And

24:00

a step above that, right? The whole

24:03

the whole family's biggest fear and one of

24:05

my biggest fear is with this with

24:08

this sentencing. He

24:11

is still able to maintain custody of his kid.

24:14

Yeah, that's doesn't lose that. How

24:16

does that happen? That Now

24:21

we're going from the confusing to the offensive, but you're

24:23

absolutely right. It is offensive. Yes.

24:26

As offended and bothered we are by

24:28

this. You can understand how

24:30

Monica's family was unhappy with the verdict.

24:32

They they judge addressed the court saying,

24:34

I'm sure many of you feel this

24:37

is not justice. But

24:39

sometimes the job I have is not to make

24:41

the most popular decision, but to make a decision

24:43

on the basis of the law. Fine

24:46

judge. I get it. Monica's

24:49

sister Gina Kimberlin addressed

24:51

the court after Michael sentence. She spoke

24:54

about the multiple systematic failures that led

24:56

to her sister's death, noting that many

24:58

times that Monica attempted to report abuse

25:00

to authorities despite Michael never being charged

25:03

with a crime. Holding up

25:05

a picture of her sister's grave site. If

25:07

you can imagine this Gina told

25:09

Michael, this is how your son

25:11

visits his mother now. Absolutely

25:14

devastating sort of stuff for

25:17

the family. Gina and her

25:19

husband are reportedly seeking to adopt

25:21

to your point, Louis, Monica's

25:24

son, hoping to solidify his

25:26

well being and in the future, Michael

25:29

will remain in Western State Hospital

25:31

potentially for the rest of his

25:33

life. Louis,

25:35

I'll let you have the last word on this one. Was

25:37

this justice served or not? I think I already know your answer.

25:41

No, absolutely not. I think the

25:43

judge had discretion here starters

25:45

and he chose to not fight the battle and

25:47

then I tried to move this thing forward to

25:49

protect the child. If anything, protect

25:51

the child. Right. And

25:53

that child should have a permanent

25:55

restraining order, at least until he's 18. Yeah,

25:58

his dad. that should not be

26:00

able to have any legal means to get to that

26:03

kid. Because you've already

26:05

set the pattern here that

26:07

all they should do is declare another prophecy and

26:09

he'll be fine. He doesn't have to worry about

26:11

anything. I am

26:14

a big fan of law enforcement and

26:16

of our judicial system. I think that

26:18

we are doing the best that we

26:20

possibly can, but you see cases like

26:22

this and it really starts to frustrate

26:24

you and make you question on whether

26:26

or not, I think

26:28

certainly here, the system failed this poor woman

26:30

and her whole family and the son who

26:33

will have to live with those nightmares for

26:35

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29:06

seventy five. Can. in

30:00

January of 2023 with a killing in

30:02

his native El Salvador. Currently officials have

30:04

not released many details on that alleged

30:06

murder, though it is believed that the

30:08

victim in that case was also a

30:11

woman. Later that month,

30:13

Victor allegedly entered the United States

30:15

to escape prosecution of El Salvador,

30:17

reportedly Victor entered the United States

30:19

on two different occasions that month

30:21

through borders in El Paso and

30:24

New Mexico. However, he was

30:26

eventually identified leading him to attempt a

30:28

third entrance into the country. Then get

30:30

this, Louis, in February of

30:33

2023, Victor again allegedly

30:35

came to the United States for

30:37

a fourth time. He somehow avoided

30:39

border detection. He was able to

30:42

openly roam around for 16 months

30:45

leaving a string of victims and crime

30:47

in his wake. This

30:51

case has had a

30:53

lot of political heat, I'll put it lately.

30:55

And I don't want to get into that

30:57

as much as I just, it

30:59

is astounding to me to

31:01

see, at least with this

31:04

person, it seems

31:06

like him getting back and forth

31:08

between, into

31:11

the US from Mexico and having traveled

31:13

from El Salvador was not all that

31:15

difficult for him. No, he

31:17

has perfected it. And look, I agree, you know,

31:19

there will be those out there who want to

31:21

make this political for whatever reason. But

31:23

I do want to comment on that only

31:26

because from the aspect that I have

31:28

worked those borders myself in my

31:30

law enforcement career over 25 years. And

31:33

when I started back in 1984, Josh, and

31:36

I got my first assignment out there,

31:39

drug interdiction, I even,

31:42

one of the things that became very

31:44

obvious at the beginning was how porous,

31:46

extremely porous, our borders were back in

31:48

1984. And

31:50

through the years, I've just noticed that they

31:52

become more and more and more porous because

31:55

they're perfecting, even though we're trying to

31:57

catch up ourselves, we're improving our security,

31:59

attempting. those who

32:01

want to come across, they're perfecting how to do

32:04

that. There's so many things to fight, and I

32:06

just, putting up some type of barrier or technology

32:08

to try to prevent that, or at least slow

32:10

it down. But we've worked

32:12

many cases where you have officers who

32:15

work the borders on both sides, who

32:17

are subject to bribery, to corruption, and

32:20

facilitate the crossing for thousands

32:22

every day. You have

32:24

people at the local DMV to help that also

32:27

are corrupt. Cases that I've

32:29

worked in the past, this is an ongoing problem

32:31

that started, that was in place before 1984, but

32:34

I've seen it consistent through the years to this day. DMV

32:37

is willing to, if you know the right person,

32:40

to issue a fake ID to

32:42

certain individuals, and so they can hide in public.

32:45

It's just incredible. I

32:47

don't know what the right answer is, but it's from

32:49

many different directions, and I'm afraid

32:51

it's going to continue to increase unless

32:53

we change something. I don't know what the answer to that is,

32:57

but yeah, I see it. It's porous, and

32:59

he's perfected it himself. Yeah, and

33:01

along to dovetail off of what

33:03

you said too, his

33:06

reason was obviously

33:08

to escape capture for a crime

33:10

he had already committed, and

33:13

you gotta think about his mindset is, if

33:15

I make it to the US, I can

33:17

disappear. I mean, that's a scary thought that

33:19

he knows, like you said, it's

33:22

not going to be all that difficult

33:24

for him to find a fake identity,

33:26

to assume being a different

33:28

person. He's got no history, and nobody knows

33:30

him who's here, that we know of, I'm

33:32

saying, and he's able to essentially just

33:36

disappear into the US, and

33:38

that's one thing, but now then he takes

33:41

it upon himself to go about continuing

33:44

his crime spree of violence here in

33:46

the United States. Scary stuff, talking

33:48

about it being porous, this

33:50

is one of the aspects of it I

33:53

think concerns people of all political

33:56

bent. This is a

33:58

problem. Yeah. In. March of

34:01

2023, Victor is alleged to have assaulted, and

34:03

this is what we were talking about, a

34:05

nine-year-old and her mother in a home invasion

34:08

in Los Angeles. In the

34:10

crime, the assailant left behind a water bottle and

34:12

a hat, which authorities were able to use to

34:15

obtain a DNA sample. This

34:17

is gonna become important in a moment

34:19

here. A doorbell camera

34:21

video of the incident was also

34:23

obtained, which also

34:27

becomes important that we'll talk about. The

34:29

way that this plays out chronologically is

34:32

maybe not the way that a lot of us learned about

34:34

this case, because according

34:36

to authorities, Victor's next victim

34:38

was 37-year-old mother

34:41

of five, Rachel Morin. The body of

34:43

Rachel Morin was discovered on a Maryland

34:46

hiking trail known as the Ma and

34:48

Pa Trail on August 6th, 2023. Around

34:52

a day after her boyfriend reported her

34:54

missing, authorities believe she was murdered on

34:56

August 5th. All

34:59

right, so that case

35:01

breaks, and it makes a

35:03

lot of news, because I think it's, again,

35:05

one of those things where it's a nightmare

35:08

when anyone is just kind of going about

35:10

their day, and then they disappear, and then

35:12

they end up killed in

35:15

a very violent and

35:17

awful way. But

35:20

now we're learning that he had actually committed

35:23

a crime that didn't lead to murder, it

35:25

was violent nonetheless, beforehand,

35:27

and the reason I was

35:29

curious to hear your thoughts on this is if you

35:32

could tell us about why

35:34

on those crimes that sometimes don't get

35:36

as much attention. The

35:38

police work is just as important

35:41

because they may be preventing someone

35:43

early on from committing far more

35:45

egregious crimes. Yeah,

35:47

so I hear that question, we get

35:49

that all out apparently, I

35:51

think of Gabby Petito, Gabby Petito, Gabby

35:53

Petito, right? Blonde hair, blue

35:56

eyes, and she got national attention,

35:59

and it was a, very horrible case.

36:02

Absolutely. But there are

36:05

many, many, many others. They're

36:07

just as horrible, if not even worse. And

36:09

of course, that's subjective, but they

36:12

don't get the attention and some of the

36:14

consistency there is it's

36:17

just a different demographic.

36:20

I think you make an

36:23

important point that it

36:25

is, I think, a function

36:27

of the media. It's kind

36:29

of, I think, also a

36:31

function of what

36:33

stands out to us culturally

36:35

as being, you know,

36:37

an anomaly that you hear about

36:40

a crime taking place in

36:42

a suburban area on a hiking trail. And

36:44

that's obviously going to get a little more

36:47

coverage than a crime taking place in what

36:49

we could consider a quote unquote high crime

36:51

area. And you're right

36:53

to see that kind of dichotomy here.

36:56

And I think my point too is that the

36:59

detectives working that case in LA

37:01

with the home invasion and the

37:03

assault on that nine year old girl. You

37:06

can be sure they are

37:09

taking that incredibly seriously, because

37:11

though that didn't lead to

37:13

murder, they already know

37:15

that this person is a very

37:17

dangerous person and they want to do

37:19

something about it. And that's why it

37:22

is important to dedicate resources and time to

37:24

those types of cases that may not make

37:27

media headlines, because perhaps that

37:29

could have prevented had he been captured. And I'm

37:31

not saying it was a shortcoming of law enforcement,

37:33

but had he been apprehended, they

37:36

may have prevented this murder that then

37:38

took place in Maryland. Right. Right.

37:40

And, you know, I actually think of this

37:42

case law enforcement in the location,

37:44

the tracking and the apprehension of this clown.

37:48

They did a pretty damn good job. Yeah. Right.

37:50

And because of the work in LA, collection the

37:52

DNA and understand they had a very violent crime.

37:55

And I think some are strongly after

37:57

that, they were able to get a pretty good idea

37:59

of who he was. especially after

38:01

they got the familial DNA. You're 100%

38:03

right. That is what was

38:05

kind of the linchpin turning point in this whole thing

38:07

that I want to get into. One

38:09

last point on this before I kind of give us more

38:11

of how this case played out is, I

38:15

was astounded at the

38:17

fact that we know he gets into

38:19

the US, then he somehow makes himself

38:21

his way to Los Angeles. Then

38:24

he makes his way from Los Angeles

38:26

to Maryland across the

38:29

entire country. This

38:31

is a person who we don't know

38:33

yet, but I can't imagine has means

38:37

of making a lot of money. How

38:39

is, was that surprising to you,

38:41

his ability to kind of just travel

38:43

freely about the country? Well,

38:47

50-50. I mean, he's established. I think he

38:49

knows how to get around here. And if

38:51

he does have a history in El Salvador

38:54

being part of a cartel organization or a

38:56

gang organization, and

38:59

they're established here in the US, that's what they

39:01

do. They perfect how to get people from point

39:03

A to point B. So

39:06

he may have had another reason, and

39:08

this was just something he was doing

39:10

in the middle of whatever else he

39:12

was here for. Trafficking, perhaps? Is that

39:14

where? Yeah. Oh, interesting. I hadn't thought

39:16

about that. Really good point. You're

39:19

right. You're right. That could have been a

39:21

business trip from LA to

39:23

Maryland for him. Interesting. And they do try to

39:25

color it. And maybe it is. Part of it

39:27

could be that he was trying to escape what

39:29

happened in El Salvador. But

39:31

this may have been a trip he has made many

39:34

times through the US already over the years. And I

39:36

think also I said, crime spree.

39:38

I think what we're going to find that's going

39:41

to come to fruition as this investigation continues is

39:43

that there's other people who

39:45

are victims of his losses here, especially

39:47

with the DNA hit, can

39:50

that identify? So that's all going to start coming

39:52

out. It's hard to believe that he behaved. No,

39:55

100 percent. Given the randomness of it. Victor

44:00

in May of 2024, eventually

44:02

tracking his location to the

44:04

Tulsa area. Again, now we've

44:06

gone from LA to Maryland, to now

44:09

Oklahoma. FBI agents contacted

44:12

Tulsa detectives sometime in the evening of June

44:14

13th, 2024, telling

44:16

them they had credible information of the

44:18

suspect's location, perhaps a tip off. On

44:21

Friday, June 14th, 2024, Victor

44:23

was arrested in Tulsa at around 11.30 p.m. at a

44:25

bar. Pretty

44:27

incredible though, right? And I

44:30

think, Lewis, that after all of this, tracing

44:33

a person all over the

44:35

country and in fact into other countries and

44:38

all the resources and everything else, this doesn't

44:40

end up in some sort of car chase

44:42

or a shootout, but they just casually arrest

44:45

him as he's sitting at a bar. What

44:47

are your thoughts? Well, I

44:49

think there's a lot of luck in that and strategic

44:51

planning, tactical planning, let's get him by week. They probably

44:53

send someone in there, he's at the bar sitting in

44:55

there right now. All right, let's go get him. I

44:57

mean, they probably try to mitigate anything

44:59

like that, they could. Absolutely, if he

45:02

would have been pulled over, if he was in the

45:04

stolen vehicle and or they would have attempted, chances are

45:06

he would have run and it would have ended in

45:08

a violent encounter. I was gonna

45:10

ask you, he was arrested at

45:12

the bar for this outstanding

45:15

homicide, but he was

45:17

also arrested for trespassing in that bar. What's

45:19

up with that? Yeah, I

45:22

guess they figured if the murder charge didn't

45:24

stick, they still had something on them. I

45:26

saw that too and it was curious to

45:28

me and I'm wondering if it

45:30

was more about their probable

45:32

cause to make the arrest that they

45:34

felt like, okay, if

45:37

anything else, we can lock this person up and

45:39

hold them for this

45:42

trespassing. And

45:44

then while he's in custody, confirm with the

45:47

FBI and everybody else, is this in

45:49

fact your man before they charge him with

45:51

murder was my only thought of how that

45:53

may have played out. But that was

45:55

funny to me as well because he denied

45:58

being involved or who he was. But

46:00

you know, they may not have been able to

46:03

completely ID him at

46:05

that point until the FBI got involved. What do you

46:07

think? Yeah, no, I

46:10

agree. Victor Antonio Martinez Hernandez, you

46:12

know, these guys invert these names 20 different

46:15

ways at least right knows what other

46:17

names aliases he used. So very difficult.

46:19

It came down to the DNA had

46:21

potentially some prints from El Salvador. Yeah,

46:23

to this. But yeah,

46:25

no, the trespassing is still out. Touch

46:28

on a little bit, but the one thing you have to get the

46:30

owner of the bar to say he's not welcome here or we have

46:32

a history. He won't leave. He's been

46:34

here all day. I know maybe maybe

46:36

his defense attorney will get that charge dismissed.

46:39

Who knows? Maybe or maybe Josh, he'll he'll come

46:41

up with some type of prophecy and just walk

46:44

away from the whole thing. Exactly. That

46:46

seems to be the the flavor of the day

46:48

as to what people are using on

46:51

June 17th, 2024. Victor waved

46:53

his right to a extradition hearing

46:55

to face charges in Harford County,

46:57

Maryland. Victor faces counts of

46:59

first degree murder and first degree rape and

47:01

the death of Rachel Morin. After

47:04

his arrest, Harford County Sheriff

47:06

Jeff Goller gave a

47:08

press conference in which he criticized

47:10

federal border security. The

47:12

man opined American citizens are not safe

47:14

because of failed immigration policies. This was

47:16

kind of what we touched on earlier.

47:19

It's hard when you have cases

47:22

like this to not see

47:24

politics get involved in the whole thing. I think,

47:28

Lewis, you had made some excellent points about regardless

47:31

where you come out on this politically, this

47:33

is obviously a failure. If

47:36

a person like this is able to

47:38

get in and commit further violence inside

47:40

of the U.S. But

47:42

again, I'll give you kind of the last thoughts

47:44

on this, Lewis. What do you think

47:46

about how this played out, especially coming

47:48

from a law enforcement background? I just really

47:51

want to take a moment to applaud the efforts that were

47:53

put into this. I agree. I think I

47:55

don't want that to get swept under here either. I think

47:58

there was some excellent police work. you know,

48:00

starting back in Los Angeles, they cared.

48:02

They knew what they had there, the potential

48:05

of someone who inflicted that type of violent

48:07

harm on the nine year old and her

48:09

mom could do if

48:11

they were still on the loose. And

48:13

I think that's gonna come also out

48:16

how what exactly happened there. Because

48:20

with what they did let out, trust me, it's we

48:22

both know was probably even worse what happened. There

48:25

are so kudos to them for

48:27

at least getting the DNA and putting it

48:29

in the database in CODIS. Because many

48:31

times, you know, sometimes they don't

48:33

grab DNA, hard to believe, but that happens in

48:35

some still to this day in some of our

48:37

larger departments. But what happens even more, they'll grab

48:40

the DNA and not put it in CODIS, right?

48:43

And they did. And because of that, there was a

48:45

connection made based on some incredible

48:47

boots on the groundwork by

48:49

the arresting agencies. Yeah, it's

48:51

incredible that in this modern day and

48:54

age where everything is on databases and

48:56

everything seems to be accessible, and

48:59

there's a lot of data everywhere that law enforcement

49:01

still has some catching up to do in

49:04

some respect. That there's a lot of times

49:06

where these databases are not speaking to each

49:08

other. Different states are not sharing information

49:10

with each other. I know I experienced this in the

49:13

DA's office where you know, you may run a person's background,

49:17

quote unquote, and find out, you know, different convictions, but

49:20

that may be limited to California or

49:23

the jurisdiction that you're in. And it takes some

49:25

work and undertaking and it takes some

49:27

time to figure out, did this person have other run-ins

49:29

with law enforcement outside

49:31

of the state that you're practicing in? So

49:34

you're right. Sounds

49:36

like the stars aligned enough in this case for

49:39

them to make an incredible capture. And

49:42

we're glad that they did. And we will of course keep

49:44

you all updated as

49:46

we have further information on this case. We

49:51

all belong outside. We're drawn to nature, whether

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it's the recorded sounds or

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order to secure convictions in a court

50:27

of law, it is essential that we

50:29

conclusively sports. The clock at four. Donchich.

50:33

The step back three. You bet. Music.

50:36

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download the TuneIn app to start

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listening. All

50:51

right. Well, that is our show for this week.

50:53

Louis, thank you so much for meeting my guests,

50:55

for holding my hand through all of

50:57

this as we fill in for Anna. Where can people

50:59

find out more about you? Thank

51:02

you, Josh. Thank you so much. You

51:04

can find my entire social media footprint

51:06

at getbitinvestigations.com. Fantastic. And

51:08

I'm your host, Josh Ritter. You can

51:10

find me on Instagram and Twitter at

51:12

JoshuaRitterESQ. And if you want to hear

51:15

my thoughts and coverage on more true

51:17

crime cases, please check out my new

51:19

YouTube channel, Courtroom Confidential. You

51:21

can find our episodes wherever you get your

51:23

podcasts. Subscribe to our

51:25

True Crime News channel on YouTube and

51:28

sign up to receive our newsletter

51:31

at truecrimenews.com. Thank

51:33

you all for letting me join you

51:35

this week. Until next week, this is

51:37

True Crime News, the podcast reminding you,

51:39

don't do crime.