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Murder in the morning

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from the Hidden Killers

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We always want to hear from you and your

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888-554-5537

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to weigh in on anything

0:20

that we are covering for you. There's

0:27

been a lot of talk. We've been talking about the Lori Vallow-Daybell

0:29

case and their connections to the LDS

0:32

Church, the Mormon Church, as it's more

0:34

commonly known. And there's a lot

0:36

of opinions here. A lot of opinions

0:38

and I want to hear it all.

0:40

And then I want to kind of break

0:42

down what we

0:45

understand about all of this. And

0:47

also, kind of how

0:50

Chad

0:51

and Lori got to be

0:54

where they are in their belief

0:56

system. We have actually two

0:58

calls here. One, very

1:02

much pro-Mormon

1:05

Church. And I'm not anti, I'm not pro, I'm in the

1:07

middle. I'm just like, whatever, y'all do your thing. It's

1:09

not for me, but I'm not going to tell you it's

1:11

wrong either. And then we have

1:13

another one that is going to be talking about

1:16

how they believe that

1:18

those teachings led, kind

1:21

of as a plateau, the ladder to

1:23

the top of the diving board, that

1:25

Chad and Lori eventually jumped off of. They

1:27

were no longer on the diving board or part of

1:30

the diving board, but the

1:32

diving board got them there. So

1:34

let's go to that first call and then we'll

1:37

hear the second and discuss. Yeah.

1:38

Rebecca, my name's Rebecca. I'm

1:40

calling from Utah. I

1:43

have some information for you

1:45

regarding the case in

1:47

Kamas, Utah.

1:50

You made some comments about some

1:52

cases

1:53

in Utah and it relating

1:55

to Mormonism. the

2:00

correction that family was

2:02

they are not practicing LDS members.

2:06

They were, there were many indications

2:08

of that and we happen to know the neighbor that

2:10

lived next to them and that that is not true.

2:14

And along with the day bells,

2:17

they also are not associated

2:19

nor believe what LDS

2:21

people believe. I'd love

2:23

to talk to you more about this. And

2:26

then she gives her phone number. But here's

2:28

the deal. Yeah, I know at the end, yeah,

2:31

these people were not practicing members of the LDS

2:33

church, but what you have to remember

2:35

about that is they once were.

2:37

And that

2:40

once were thing, the whole foundation

2:44

of

2:44

the belief system started

2:47

there. Okay. I'm not blaming them. I'm not saying

2:49

the LDS church has anything to do with saying

2:51

to go out and kill your children in

2:53

the streets or anything like that. But

2:56

you have to understand you can't just

2:58

distance yourself from it. If you are

3:00

a member of that saying, well, we're nothing to do with her. Like, no,

3:03

you actually do because she

3:06

was part of your church for quite some time. Same

3:08

with Christian fundamentalists

3:10

who go off the deep end and do sort of crazy

3:12

shit in that or any religion

3:15

with

3:15

that. That takes their basis

3:18

of their belief. And then it gets bastardized

3:21

somehow with an offshoot of

3:23

it. And there are so many offshoots

3:25

of LDS.

3:27

And I cannot tell you the amount of stories

3:29

and news stories I read every single damn week

3:32

that have something to do with

3:34

an offshoot of the LDS church

3:37

that are involved in some sort of criminal activity.

3:39

Now, is it the LDS church that is involved?

3:41

No, it is not. Although we can talk about their

3:44

finances if you want to talk about 60 minutes, that's

3:46

a whole other story. But when

3:48

we're talking about

3:50

murder, no,

3:52

that is not in the tenants of it. But

3:54

we will talk a little bit more about this

3:57

and how some of those building blocks, I

3:59

believe... led Chad

4:02

and Lori and enabled them,

4:04

enabled their beliefs to go where

4:07

they did. They went off the deep end,

4:09

they still, they were not following it at a certain

4:11

point, but

4:13

yes, they were very much a part of

4:15

this for quite some time. Let's hear this

4:17

call. Hi, Tony, my name is Tammy.

4:19

I live in El Dorado Hills, California. Just

4:22

listen to one year podcasts. I can't

4:24

remember the date since they're actually

4:26

updated. Anyway, but regarding

4:29

your comments about some of the stuff being

4:31

started in the more by the Mormon church or

4:34

in Idaho in Utah, you

4:36

are on track with that one because

4:39

the church is basically a cult.

4:41

It's not true. And

4:44

it's a mess, a lot of

4:47

unrest going on with it.

4:49

Just wanted to run that

4:52

by you. And also regarding

4:54

Lori Valo,

4:56

I was shocked to

4:58

hear how many times throughout the trial it

5:00

was mentioned that she went to the temple, her

5:03

and her friends, her and Chad. You

5:05

want to do some research and check out

5:08

what does it take to get a temple recommend? You

5:10

can't just go into the temple regardless

5:12

of what your religious

5:14

association

5:17

is.

5:17

And you might want to do some research into

5:20

that because it's shocking to me

5:22

that they continue to get

5:24

temple recommends that they continue to go

5:26

to the temple while they were doing

5:28

all of these appalling things. All

5:30

right, thanks for taking my call. Have

5:33

a good one, bye bye.

5:34

Yeah, and what they, they were not

5:36

getting into the temple by

5:39

members of the church. They

5:41

were certainly abusing whatever

5:45

powers they had to go into

5:47

some of these temples and such and

5:50

perform their rituals.

5:54

The term eludes

5:56

me at this moment, but I'm sure we'll get to it here in a moment. The

5:58

ceiling is what I'm talking about.

5:59

about that was when they got married

6:03

and there was several other things

6:06

that Chad took it upon himself to say I

6:08

have the

6:09

ability to do this now, although

6:11

the church never gave him that. So it's

6:14

a twisted story but

6:15

here's the thing, the

6:18

Mormon church

6:19

and I'm not,

6:21

I'm just speaking fact here, this

6:23

is just how things operate.

6:26

They use additional scriptures beyond the Bible.

6:28

The most significant is the Book of Mormon

6:31

from which they get the nickname.

6:33

Many use a doctrine and

6:35

covenants

6:37

and the Pearl

6:38

of Great Price, it's

6:40

all part of their

6:42

teaching so they have more stuff than your

6:44

I guess average Christian church

6:47

which is why it's viewed as a different religion.

6:49

They also believe in modern

6:51

revelation that God still speaks

6:54

to his people today through a

6:56

living prophet.

6:58

This prophet

7:00

is the president of the LDS church,

7:02

that's the only person that's the prophet. So the

7:04

Catholics have

7:07

the Pope, the LDS church has this

7:09

and is believed to receive guidance directly

7:12

from God for

7:13

the direction of the church and

7:16

the world. Now

7:19

an interesting thing about this is the

7:21

actual Bible doesn't say anything about any of this, of

7:25

this being a thing, but because

7:27

you

7:28

have Joseph Smith who's in the picture

7:30

here who, well he's

7:33

the guy who started the LDS church, he

7:36

believed he was a prophet of God

7:39

and he was there

7:41

to restore the true Christian

7:43

church in the latter days

7:46

similar to biblical figures such as

7:48

Moses or Isaiah.

7:51

So the only problem

7:53

with this is that Joseph

7:56

Smith was also

7:59

a prophet. a hotster and a con man before

8:01

starting the LDS church. And

8:04

that's where the problem comes in. Are you familiar

8:07

with the BITE model of authoritarian

8:09

control,

8:10

Steve Hassan? No. So

8:13

BITE, B-I-T-E stands for

8:16

behavior, information, thought,

8:18

and emotional when speaking about

8:20

controlling others and individuals.

8:23

So it's often talked about

8:26

in relation to the Mormon church

8:29

and how

8:30

thought control and emotional

8:33

control and information coming

8:35

in and going out control are

8:38

often used to

8:40

possibly manipulate members

8:43

to keep them within the confines

8:45

of the church. And to

8:48

each their own, I'm going to say whatever gets

8:50

you through the day. Sure.

8:53

I've known

8:55

a few. And I've also

8:57

known a few who've gotten out and said,

8:59

whoa, what did I do there? Yeah.

9:03

It's a very restrictive

9:06

lifestyle. And there is

9:08

a lot of controlling going

9:11

on in there, controlling your clothing,

9:13

your hairstyle.

9:15

You can't drink coffee because coffee

9:17

is a drug. Or tea. Yeah,

9:20

exactly. No caffeine. They

9:23

dictate how you can live and things

9:25

like that. And some could say that most religion

9:28

is that way. But this is a very strict

9:31

religion. So mind control

9:33

tends to be part of this

9:35

thought process.

9:36

It does. The fact that there can

9:39

be living prophets, they believe it is

9:41

only the current president of the LDS

9:43

church that has this magical ability

9:46

to have one-on-one chat sessions

9:48

with God. But if

9:50

you understand some of these

9:53

one-offs of the LDS church

9:55

that are not currently part of the church,

9:58

this is where people within the church.

11:59

He was eventually brought to court in 1826 on charges

12:02

related to this activity and

12:05

it was fraudulent behavior.

12:07

So he got kicked out of a lot of places for fraud.

12:10

Then is when he started a bank at one

12:12

point. 1837, Smith

12:14

and other Mormon leaders started a financial

12:17

institution in Kirtland, Ohio

12:19

called the Kirtland Safety Society.

12:21

The institution failed within a few months,

12:24

many investors lost their money.

12:25

Smith was accused of illegal banking activities

12:27

and then fled to, fled Ohio to

12:30

avoid arrest.

12:32

He also introduced the practice of polygamy

12:34

or plural marriage into the early

12:36

Mormon theology. He himself had multiple

12:39

wives. Critics argue that Smith

12:42

initially denied practicing

12:44

polygamy and that he had lied to his

12:46

first wife, Emma, about his other marriages,

12:49

which they also view as fraudulent behavior.

12:52

The guy was a fraud. I mean, without a, he

12:54

was a fraud. Now, if you

12:57

go and say, well, you could be forgiven of this, he maybe

12:59

made some bad choices, but in the end of the day, he

13:01

became this prophet. Okay, great. Whatever

13:04

the hell you want

13:04

to believe. But he was involved in a lot of fraud

13:07

prior to becoming

13:10

the initial head

13:11

of the church. But

13:14

that was kind of a tangent.

13:16

The thing that I'm talking about here, most

13:18

importantly, is the building

13:20

blocks and the steps that enabled

13:23

this way of thinking

13:24

with Chad and Laurie Daybell, specifically

13:27

that

13:28

a individual

13:30

can become a living prophet

13:34

and priesthood authority. Two women's believe that

13:36

the authority

13:37

to act in God's name, also known

13:39

as priesthood authority, was restored

13:42

to Joseph Smith and has been passed down through

13:44

church leaders.

13:45

And it's considered necessary to perform

13:47

saving

13:48

ordinances such as baptism.

13:51

So that's

13:52

really where you begin to get people

13:55

that break off and say, I have this

13:57

authority. I'm a prophet. The church doesn't agree

13:59

with me. But you guys

14:01

agree with me. I'm having these visions.

14:04

I'm having this. I'm having that.

14:06

And if you're already engaged in a lot

14:08

of religious thinking or magical

14:10

thinking, it's not that far of

14:12

a stretch

14:14

to understand how people

14:16

like Chad and Laurie Day Bell can exist

14:19

and can get so engrossed

14:22

in their belief system that

14:25

anything violent or strange that

14:27

they are doing, they can justify because

14:30

they are so deep into what

14:32

they believe and they believe it. You

14:34

could probably put them through a lie

14:37

detector test and they would

14:39

come out as believing their lies.

14:42

They believe that what they are promoting

14:45

is true and is going

14:46

to

14:48

get them to the Kingdom of Heaven. They truly

14:51

believe this. And you push

14:53

this on young or impressionable

14:55

people.

14:56

You can have horrible things happen.

14:58

Look at Warren chefs. He was another

15:00

one who was a fundamentalist.

15:03

It was the Mormon fundamentalism. It was again,

15:05

not part of the church

15:08

itself, but he broke his own off,

15:11

took

15:11

different tenants of that faith

15:14

and then created his own

15:16

thing where he ended up raping children for many

15:18

years.

15:20

And it's there's many of

15:22

these. It's not super

15:25

uncommon. If you look into the history

15:27

of the various cults that have broken

15:29

off of LDS,

15:31

there's a lot of them.

15:32

So there are building blocks there

15:35

that do indeed

15:36

guide people to this way of thinking

15:39

and one can argue, well, that's not what

15:41

they teach. That's their own doing. Yeah,

15:43

you're right. It totally is their own doing,

15:46

but they did get there some way.

15:50

And that's the part

15:52

that I think

15:54

needs a little introspection.

15:56

From that side of things. Now,

15:58

if you want to talk

15:59

to me, I'm going to talk to you.

15:59

about their $100

16:01

billion in

16:03

real estate and holdings

16:06

that they use to bail out private companies

16:08

and the IRS not

16:10

wanting to touch that with a 10,000 foot pole.

16:14

That's a whole other thing.

16:16

But there's a lot of corruption

16:19

as there is in many religions. I'm not

16:21

just trying to pick on Mormons here. But

16:24

there's a lot of things that go far,

16:26

far astray

16:28

from I guess what

16:30

you know we've called the traditional Bible

16:32

if you will. Yeah I have a question

16:34

for you. Yeah. Do you want to start

16:37

a church? You

16:39

know I think I've learned so much doing

16:41

these shows it wouldn't be hard. No

16:45

it wouldn't be hard. I don't know if you ever watched John Oliver

16:47

but he talks about how easy

16:49

it is to start a church. I mean it's once

16:52

you get it rolling. It's financially

16:55

lucrative. I mean you can pretty

16:57

much do whatever you want.

16:59

Oh yeah there's so many of them.

17:01

I mean look at the way some of these fundamentalist

17:05

preachers live and such. It's sickening.

17:09

It looks like Michael Jackson's house

17:11

at times with the amount

17:13

of like bling and gold

17:16

and this and that and it's all over the glory of God.

17:18

It's like I'm sorry.

17:20

That's not what Jesus taught. Well

17:23

in your private jet don't forget your private

17:25

jet for God's sake. And you know you

17:27

can do whatever you want. I just

17:30

I just I don't like it when

17:32

it's like well this is all like

17:34

no it's not it's for you and your narcissism

17:36

is what it is. It's not

17:39

but it's it's an interesting

17:41

story and it's interesting to try to understand

17:44

how they got from point A to point B. A

17:46

Mormon friend of mine actually is

17:49

the one who kind of enlightened me on all that and

17:51

and walked me through how

17:53

she

17:55

believes

17:56

Chad and Laurie got to be Chad and Laurie.

17:59

Now It's one thing to break off and do something,

18:02

but there's obviously far more mental defects

18:04

in those two to think it's okay to kill your kids. But

18:07

the idea of

18:09

getting messages from the other side,

18:12

from God telling you to do

18:14

these things, that

18:16

sort of thing was set up early on in

18:19

those other beliefs and then bastardized

18:21

when they left. So

18:24

it's an interesting thing to dive into. It's

18:27

a dark rabbit hole. And I think

18:30

it's important to be able to discuss those things

18:32

without people being upset. Oh, you're misinformous.

18:35

This is just facts. This is what it is. And

18:37

if you add the dots up and how here's this

18:39

person got to be here and there,

18:41

that's just what it is. It's

18:43

not like that debatable.

18:46

It's sad, it's sick that people

18:48

take what

18:49

would be a peaceful religion

18:52

and do this to it, but it happens

18:54

all the time, but there's a lot.

18:56

And there is a lot

18:58

that seem to stem off of that. I don't know

19:00

why exactly, but maybe

19:03

it's because there's tenants that

19:05

are issued in there that enable

19:09

God complexes that

19:11

some people have. So

19:14

that's- Yeah, I think people just wanna

19:16

feel like they belong somewhere and that just

19:19

turns into an easy place for them. And

19:21

some people just wanna be God as well. And

19:24

that's also what happens.

19:26

Murder in the morning.

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