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the Hidden Killers Podcast with Tony

1:37

Briski. Featuring former FBI special

1:39

agent and chief of the

1:42

counterintelligence behavioral analysis program, Robin

1:44

Drieck. Alec Murdaugh on

1:46

the road to a new trial.

1:48

Wait, what's this? The judge said

1:51

no. That doesn't mean

1:53

it's the end by any means. In fact,

1:55

this is really just the beginning of

1:57

probably a very lengthy appellate.

2:00

Process, but we started somewhere and we

2:02

started with evidence. We started with a

2:04

juror flat out saying Yeah,

2:07

Becky Hill influenced my decision.

2:10

Yes She said these

2:12

things to me and yes It

2:15

did affect the outcome of

2:17

what I voted for in the

2:20

guilt of Alec Murdoch But judge

2:22

toll still said nope not

2:24

enough here to discuss Robin Drake retired FBI

2:27

Special agent Robin were you

2:29

surprised? That that

2:31

this is how it all played out the

2:33

other day in court. I Was

2:37

a little surprised actually because I think

2:40

Becky Hill really Overstepped way overstepped

2:43

what she should and shouldn't do

2:45

in her position of trust, but

2:47

same time though My initial impression I

2:49

had was relief. Yeah, because I

2:51

mean you would

2:53

hate for a Righteous

2:56

conviction to get overturned or to be

2:58

retried because of one fool that Did

3:02

things that she should have done so I was really happy

3:04

with the system I'm

3:06

so glad it was a new judge that did

3:08

this and not judge Newman. He recused himself, you

3:10

know We're seeing such a difference. I think in

3:14

The system down in South Carolina compared

3:16

to Delphi Where where

3:18

we have two two trials or you

3:20

know one potential, you know upcoming trial

3:23

in Delphi where we have a lot

3:25

of things going sideways

3:27

in that whole system and Every

3:30

week there's more sideways stuff. There's more craziness

3:32

and we're trying to write that ship But

3:34

down in South Carolina where it looked like

3:36

getting our conjecture from the outside looking in

3:39

where Alec Murdoch and his whole Cabal

3:42

of people around him for and his family for

3:44

his entire life kind of ruled that system We're

3:46

like, oh man, is he gonna get away with

3:48

this? You know is he seemed to know everyone

3:51

that kind of an inside job and you know

3:53

Someone's gonna be there at his defense and say

3:55

all these nice things. But Once

3:57

again, it looks like the system is. Working.

4:01

And. That this trust and confidence in that

4:03

system. Whereas you have an individual that makes

4:05

mistakes you know Becky Hill made. In

4:08

the hill Mbeki home made

4:10

numerous mistakes arm with her

4:12

conduct but. The. System

4:14

is play now and not. Ruining.

4:17

I think the writers conviction and that's I mean

4:19

that's an interesting way to look at it because

4:21

everything it can also be argued the other way

4:23

and say the system is not working. On.

4:26

That that the that s fix the right

4:28

way on confirmation bias com and it was

4:30

a mirage away your confirmation bias and wrong

4:32

side. Oh no I mean it cause I

4:35

mean yeah I mean we can be looked

4:37

at this is very much your rights his

4:39

conviction if you're on the side that salad

4:41

murder diverse and I think most of us

4:44

are are you know that leads to a

4:46

certain extensive of he knew that the what

4:48

happened to were or that he knew arbor

4:50

who or what if you know the direct

4:53

involved arm but if it were going to

4:55

say. That the system works correctly isn't

4:57

the system designed though? That if they're

4:59

with this is all purpose of the

5:01

hearing. Or if there is

5:03

some sort of impropriety. And.

5:06

The bar was sacked. I mean

5:08

the judge basically said we would

5:10

need is. Someone. Who say

5:12

that Their. Verdicts: Was

5:15

in fact influence directly by Becky

5:17

Hill And they got that. So.

5:19

It's like the points were made the the

5:21

system that the goal was scored with has

5:24

like like when I read yesterday I have

5:26

a right here and as i as as

5:28

as a low confused on this on potentially

5:30

cause I have right here all the jitters

5:33

testified they stood by their verdict. I'm not

5:35

swayed by anything till may have said. Or

5:38

use it was or something different on

5:40

that or swell that the fat one

5:42

of the jurors in their flat out

5:44

sad now date with the be was

5:47

dirt numbers jerseys or is the one

5:49

who who flat out said that my.

5:51

It my. decision was influenced by becky hill

5:54

and yes betty hill did say these things

5:56

to me all the other jurors when along

5:58

with the rest of the saying

6:00

no this was our verdict we don't recall

6:02

Becky saying these sort of things but

6:04

there's the one that is saying that

6:06

yes in fact I my

6:09

decision was influenced by Becky Hill it

6:11

wasn't really elaborated on very well the

6:13

it was kind of a I would

6:15

say somewhat weak testimony at

6:18

one point they were even asked are

6:20

you it was

6:23

something the effective did you say anything

6:25

else other than you know watch

6:27

out or keep an eye

6:29

on his motions as movements things

6:32

of that nature in

6:35

when I did she say anything else the question was I

6:37

don't I don't really remember it

6:40

was simply the facts that were

6:42

stated was that yes this influenced I

6:44

felt pressure from the other jurors and

6:46

I felt pressure from Becky Hill Becky Hill

6:48

almost painting it that he was

6:50

already guilty so she

6:54

did at the end of this or at

6:56

the end of the actual trial you know

6:58

when they ask is this your verdict she confirmed

7:00

yes this is my verdict so to be able

7:02

to go back and change that now I guess

7:06

does put into question the rules and the

7:08

law and I mean if we're gonna be

7:10

able to do this right now and say

7:12

that I was influenced or my

7:14

my decision would have been changed I mean

7:17

you'd almost have to go back to every

7:19

trial and go to every juror and say

7:21

hey is your opinion still the same now

7:24

or where you're in where you influence I mean then

7:26

you could almost reverse any trial if we're gonna go

7:28

down that road right so

7:30

I don't know it's a weird

7:33

sticky gray area that that's really hard

7:36

to get a grasp on what

7:38

is right and what is wrong here very

7:41

true and from what I

7:44

read and what I'm taking this take

7:46

away from this is that she wouldn't have

7:48

changed her decision in the verdict that she

7:50

came up with but yes Becky Hill changed

7:52

her thought process and how she engaged and

7:55

the way you laid it out there I thought was really

7:57

really relevant to Tony and that is The

8:00

jurors were pressuring her or becky hill

8:02

is pressuring her what popped in

8:04

my mind if you're saying that is yes. When

8:07

you're a jury of twelve your

8:10

communicating with each other your elaborate in the

8:12

comm so yeah there's gonna be a lot

8:14

of pressure you can have dominant personality gonna

8:16

have non dominant person so. My

8:19

conjecture potentially is that the way

8:21

the judge look at becky hill

8:23

in this case was. That

8:26

she wasn't any more of an influence

8:28

than another juror might have been in

8:31

the same situation in other words. Becky

8:34

hill broke that you know that you

8:36

know what they call the fourth dimension

8:38

whatever yeah like the fourth wall. Yeah

8:41

the fourth she broke that fourth wall that

8:43

should have been broken between her and the

8:45

jurors and made herself you know. As

8:48

another juror as a communication type

8:51

person yeah but at

8:53

the bottom line i think was that

8:55

the juror themselves did not. Said

8:58

they did not change your verdict because of

9:00

it they change your behavior and thought process

9:02

because of her. Just

9:04

like they do with all the other jurors yeah i'm

9:07

i know i'm i know i have my leakage coming in

9:09

here on this one because i'm

9:11

just i'm so glad we don't have to go through

9:13

that trial again as of now.

9:15

As of now the repel right as

9:17

another pellet come up i mean i

9:19

i i think it's it's hold your

9:21

breath because this he's got more opportunities

9:23

to have this overturned. It's

9:26

great defense is great defense as we've seen

9:28

you know so yeah it's

9:30

just it's such a strange area of

9:32

what. I know what

9:34

constitutes improprieties in

9:38

in the jury room if we're going

9:40

to say that feeling pressure

9:42

from other jurors or

9:45

feeling pressure. I

9:47

that's going to influence your decision that's

9:50

what deliberations are that's the whole point

9:52

i mean to be like there's pressure

9:54

i'm a snowflake i can't handle the

9:56

pressure like that's what that's like that's

9:58

that's the ground jury. I've

10:00

been a jurist, you know, on big

10:02

cases. Yeah. And, you know, doing

10:05

my civic duty and yeah, there is pressure in there.

10:07

There's people that want to go home. There's people that

10:09

don't want to stay out here for three more days.

10:11

I mean, it's, yeah, there are pressures

10:13

on them. There's no doubt, you know, external

10:15

pressures, internal pressures. That's why there's

10:18

12. That's why. Yeah. And

10:20

what is wrong with, I mean, we seem to

10:22

be in a place in our world where if

10:24

there is pressure on someone or something

10:26

for some reason, it's looked at as

10:28

this is wrong. This is bad rather

10:31

than this is life. This is how decisions are

10:33

made. This is how we get to a cohesive

10:36

decision amongst a group of 12. So

10:40

it's a weird argument to be made,

10:42

but it is certainly one that attempted

10:45

to be made there. Sick

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