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Joseph Conrad's classic spy thriller,

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Under Western Eyes, for

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the present day. Once you've signed

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up, you can listen to

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all this and more via Spotify,

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Apple Podcasts, or whatever your

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podcast platform of choice is. Go

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to spyscape.com/Spyscape Plus for

0:37

details. This

0:46

is True Spies. The

0:48

podcast that takes you deep inside

0:50

the greatest secret missions of all

0:52

time. Week by

0:55

week, you'll hear the true stories behind

0:57

the operations that have shaped the world

0:59

we live in. You'll

1:01

meet the people who live life

1:03

undercover. What do they know?

1:06

What are their skills? And what

1:09

would you do in their position? I'm

1:12

Rhiannon needs, and this

1:14

is True Spies from Spyscape

1:16

Studios. Some of

1:19

the stories are pretty hero-raising. Some

1:21

of you read and go, wait a minute. This would

1:23

make a really good novel. Actually, it wouldn't make

1:25

a good novel because it's just too realistic. P.O.

1:29

Box 1142. May

1:34

the 1st, 1945. The

1:38

North Atlantic Ocean. A

1:42

few meters underwater, German

1:44

submarine U-234

1:46

is sailing west, manned by a

1:48

crew of Having

1:51

embarked from Nazi-occupied Norway a few

1:53

weeks prior, the journey

1:56

has, so far, gone to plan. the

2:00

submarine's communications go dark. Both

2:04

of the Nazis' transmitter stations, Goliath

2:07

and Noun, have stopped

2:09

responding. Despite

2:11

the confusion, the crew

2:13

continue their journey. They had

2:16

enough fuel to last for six months.

2:19

Then, on May the 4th, the

2:21

ship's radio clicks to life. But

2:25

it's not their German comrades they hear. It's

2:28

the Americans. The

2:30

Fuhrer, Adolf Hitler, is dead.

2:34

Admiral Karl Dönitz is

2:36

the new head of state. The

2:39

crew can hardly believe what they're hearing. Growing

2:42

suspicious, they conclude that it

2:44

must be a hoax. So they

2:47

continued on. A

2:49

few days later, the submarine surfaces to

2:51

pick up a better signal. Immediately,

2:54

they hear an order from Admiral Dönitz

2:57

himself. Surrender to

2:59

the Allied forces. Still

3:02

unconvinced, the crew

3:04

radio another Nazi submarine, who confirm

3:07

the news. The

3:09

war is over. Germany

3:11

has surrendered. The

3:14

men aboard U-234 begin to panic,

3:17

because this was no

3:19

typical U-boat mission. It was

3:21

a pretty significant group of people that were on the ship.

3:24

Including a general, one

3:27

Urechke Perhaps

3:34

more significant, though, was

3:36

the cargo they were carrying. Disassembled

3:40

and placed throughout the sub,

3:42

for example, was a

3:44

radio-guided glide bomb and

3:46

a complete Messerschmitt ME-62 fighter

3:48

jet. It

3:51

was far superior to any of the Allied airplanes

3:53

at the time. But not only

3:55

that. Loaded into the

3:57

sub-semine chutes, the sun is shining.

4:00

50 lead cubes containing 1100 pounds

4:04

of uranium enriched uranium the

4:07

key component of a nuclear weapon

4:11

the submarine's scheduled destination Tokyo

4:16

the Germans decided that every single

4:18

thing that they had that they

4:20

thought would be valuable to the

4:22

Japanese they put on the submarine

4:24

and they also had experts who could

4:27

explain what was on here general

4:29

Kessler argued they should head to

4:32

Argentina escape altogether but

4:35

even in defeat the submarine's

4:37

captain wanted to follow orders and

4:39

surrender but to whom the

4:42

Russians were out of the question the

4:45

British didn't seem much better but

4:48

then there were the Americans seeing

4:51

they were the furthest from the Russians both

4:54

geographically and ideologically

4:57

the captain set a course for

4:59

the Eastern seaboard of the United

5:01

States they found an

5:04

American destroyer they surrendered to them

5:07

after arriving on American soil the

5:10

crew vanished along

5:12

with the enriched uranium known

5:15

only to a handful of people at the

5:17

time both the crew and

5:20

its cargo were transferred to two

5:22

top secret military bases across the

5:24

United States the

5:26

uranium went to Oak Ridge Tennessee

5:29

a nuclear diffusion plant which

5:32

was part of the now infamous Manhattan

5:34

project and the crew

5:37

they went somewhere that still practically

5:39

unheard of even today it

5:43

was top secret for so long and

5:45

so they got a lot of pretty

5:47

amazing information from these books its

5:50

name Fort Hunt

5:53

better known as PO box

5:55

1142 they

5:58

never called it for hunt no one who

6:00

was there ever said Fort Hunt. The people

6:02

who were there were sworn to secrecy. In

6:05

this episode of Truth Bies, you'll

6:08

hear all about Fort Hunt, AKA

6:10

PO Box 1142, the

6:14

military base that became one of

6:16

the most secretive centers in US

6:18

intelligence history. What's

6:20

fascinating is the people who

6:23

were all of these sections, nobody else

6:25

had a clue what they were doing.

6:28

Providing critical intel to the Allies

6:30

through the Second World War, including

6:33

compiling of the Red Book. Probably

6:36

one of the most important

6:38

documents in the entire war.

6:41

A base that processed hundreds of

6:43

the Nazis' elite officers and scientists,

6:46

before disappearing without a trace shortly

6:48

after the war's end. All

6:50

the facilities that were built are also

6:53

gone. You would never, ever, ever know

6:55

that anything like this had happened in

6:57

World War II. Nestled

7:03

on the Potomac River, some

7:06

11 miles south of Washington,

7:08

D.C., lies a public

7:10

park. While typically

7:12

punctuated by volleyball courts and

7:15

picnicking families, the

7:17

park does have one peculiarity,

7:19

dating from the Spanish-American War of 1898.

7:23

Gun emplacements that were there from around

7:25

1900. Once

7:27

part of George Washington's estate, the

7:30

park has long since been owned by

7:32

the National Park Service. It was obsolete,

7:34

and so it sat there without

7:37

a whole lot of things going on

7:39

from most of the 20th century. This

7:42

is Robert Sutton, the

7:44

National Park Service's chief historian for

7:46

many years. While

7:48

there was little else of note to see at the park,

7:51

tours of the derelict gun batteries were

7:53

still in demand. But

7:56

by the 2000s, Robert's colleagues

7:58

were beginning to hear This park,

8:01

Fort Hunt, had a far

8:03

richer history than anyone knew of. Something

8:06

to do with World War II. So

8:09

the park would have tours of the fort,

8:11

and they'd get toward the end and they'd

8:14

say, you know, we're beginning to piece together

8:16

some information about what happened here during World

8:18

War II. And we would

8:20

really like to find someone who was here during that

8:22

time. The tour guides would

8:24

add. For years, no

8:27

one had anything to say. But

8:30

then, in 2005, one

8:32

of these tours, this couple, said,

8:35

you know what, we had a neighbor who

8:37

was here and we think he

8:39

might be able to talk to him. One

8:42

of the park rangers tracks down the man, one

8:45

Fred Meschel, now living

8:47

in Kentucky. Now, it took a

8:50

while before he could arrange it, and he knew

8:52

the reason was because every single person who was

8:54

stationed at Fort Hunt was sworn to secrecy. They

8:56

were told that they were going to take the

8:58

story of what happened there to the grave. By

9:02

the 2000s, however, much

9:04

of U.S. intelligence's wartime activities

9:06

had technically been declassified, albeit

9:10

unsurprisingly, with little

9:12

publicity. Hidden

9:14

away in the vast expenses of

9:17

the National Archives, the

9:19

intelligence was almost impenetrable

9:21

in scale and density.

9:24

Using Fred Meschel's name, though, a

9:27

National Park Ranger finds his

9:29

file. Presenting it to him,

9:32

Fred agrees to talk. At

9:35

the end of his oral history interview, they said,

9:37

well, do you know anybody else who might be

9:39

useful? Oh, yes, he

9:41

replies. Here are a few other

9:44

guys I worked with at Fort Hunt. So

9:46

they started tracking down people, and by the

9:48

end, the Park Service was able to interview

9:50

about 65 of the people

9:52

who were stationed at Fort Hunt. As it

9:54

turned out, the rumors were true.

9:58

Fort Hunt was much more than a d-

10:00

an air-elicked gun battery. Just

10:02

turned out to be an

10:04

absolutely amazing story. Have

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slash Spiescape. With

11:38

the United States thrust into the Southern

11:40

World War, following the Japanese attack on

11:42

Pearl Harbor, American intelligence

11:44

officials realized they had a problem.

11:47

Their intelligence-gathering apparatus was

11:50

really pretty bad. Scrambling

11:53

for expertise and resources, the

11:56

U.S. sent a delegation to the country they're

11:58

regarded as having some of the best... spies

12:00

in the world, Great Britain.

12:03

To study what they were doing, they spent six months

12:05

there. On their return, the

12:08

American delegation had several

12:10

key recommendations. One

12:12

was setting up an interrogation center for

12:15

prisoners of war. Another,

12:17

the analysis of captured enemy

12:19

intel. The Germans were very,

12:22

very fastidious record keepers. And

12:24

so the documents that were captured,

12:26

there literally were tons and tons

12:28

and tons. Meanwhile,

12:31

an escape and evasion program

12:33

should be formalized to aid

12:35

both American POWs and

12:37

downed pilots behind enemy lines. And

12:40

Fort Hunt was there. It really

12:42

wasn't used. It was very close to the

12:44

Pentagon, very close to Washington, D.C. It was

12:46

actually a perfect location. And so

12:49

they decided on Fort Hunt as the

12:51

place where this should happen. The

12:53

U.S. government signs a deal with the

12:55

National Park Service. They could

12:57

use the site under a cooperative agreement

12:59

for the duration of World War II

13:01

plus one year. In

13:05

just six weeks, over

13:07

100 barracks were built, ringed

13:09

by barbed wire and watch towers.

13:12

Passers by knew nothing about the site,

13:15

which offered no clues to its name nor

13:17

function. Even those stationed

13:20

there rarely knew its actual name.

13:23

It was always called Post Office Box

13:25

1142, for where the mail was

13:27

delivered in Alexandria. Despite

13:29

the innocuous setting, the

13:31

sheer number of blacked out vehicles

13:34

entering and exiting the compound suggested

13:36

it was significant. But

13:39

at first, the U.S. military

13:41

struggled to hire the right personnel for

13:43

the base. They knew who

13:45

they wanted, native German

13:47

speakers who understood the nuances of

13:50

the language. But in

13:52

early 1942, many

13:54

of these individuals were barred from serving.

13:57

For example, one of the people who just became a very...

14:00

very good friend of mine and fortunately just

14:02

passed away at age 100, Paul Fairbrook. The

14:04

day after the attack on Pearl Harbor he

14:06

went down to try to join the Marines.

14:10

Who turned Paul away, as

14:12

did the Navy and the Army. But

14:15

the Army said, you know, at some point you might

14:17

be able to join or we might draft you. The

14:19

reason we can't do it now is because you're an

14:21

enemy alien. In other words,

14:24

a citizen of a country with whom America

14:26

was at war. Native

14:29

German speakers were usually exactly

14:31

that, Germans. But

14:33

soon that designation ceased to

14:36

apply. Eventually the

14:38

military said, look, Germany has decided

14:40

that these people are no longer

14:43

citizens and so that was the

14:45

opening that allowed them to become

14:47

US citizens and to join the

14:50

Army. The

14:53

likes of Paul Fairbrook, a German immigrant

14:56

to America in the 1930s, were seemingly

14:58

perfect for

15:01

Fort Hunt. Not only did they

15:03

understand the language, they understood a lot of

15:05

the nuances of the language and the culture.

15:08

Before they were stationed there though, they

15:11

needed to get through training. Many

15:13

of them went through Camp Ritchie. And

15:15

their instinct bore fruit. It

15:18

turned out master interrogators like Guy

15:20

Stern, the hero of our

15:22

true spy story The Ritchie Boys. Be

15:25

sure to listen back to that if you'd like to know more. Unsurprisingly,

15:29

captured Nazi officers were

15:32

often arrogant and uncooperative,

15:35

especially to younger soldiers, many

15:38

of whom would go on to make up the personnel

15:40

at Fort Hunt. It

15:42

was essential that Camp Ritchie prepared them

15:44

for this. They

15:46

would have American soldiers, German

15:48

American soldiers, dressed up in

15:51

Nazi German uniforms and

15:53

they would become the

15:55

actors for interrogations. And

15:58

these actors would try and trip up

16:00

the trainee interrogators any way they

16:02

could. One example, which

16:04

I think is great, one of

16:06

these actors, first of all,

16:09

he refused to give his name or

16:11

any information and that sort of flustered

16:13

the trainee. But then he started talking

16:15

about this thing called a goulash

16:18

cannon. To

16:20

those clued up on their German military

16:22

lingo, this was a

16:24

common idiom for field kitchen. But

16:27

to those without such knowledge, this

16:29

sounded like nothing more than a beef

16:31

stew gun, i.e. nonsense.

16:35

Well, as the interrogation

16:37

went on, it got further and

16:40

further into this goulash cannon and goulashes running

16:42

down the mountain and everything. Fed

16:44

up, the trainee interrogator snapped.

16:47

Ignoring protocol, he began shouting at

16:49

the mock German captives. The

16:52

interrogation fell to pieces. They

16:55

would do things like that to try to

16:57

frustrate the trainees and some of

16:59

them actually couldn't deal with it. Nearly

17:02

50% of trainees washed

17:04

out, never even made it to

17:06

Fort Hunt. Those who

17:08

did were the elite. What's

17:10

more, most of them were Jewish.

17:13

Had escaped from Germany or Austria.

17:16

And before long, these

17:19

Jewish refugees had graduated

17:21

from Camp Ritchie and were

17:23

interrogating Nazi officers at Fort Hunt.

17:29

By early 1942, German

17:32

U-boats were hunting along America's eastern

17:35

seaboard, even sinking Allied

17:37

vessels within sight of land.

17:40

The Americans in turn destroyed

17:42

or captured a few U-boats

17:44

themselves. The surviving

17:46

sailors creating a steady stream of

17:49

German POWs to the US mainland.

17:52

POWs that needed to be

17:54

processed and debriefed, including

17:57

one Captain Henke. decorated

18:00

U-boat captains there was. He had sunk

18:02

like 20-some ships and I don't remember

18:05

how many tons of stuff. And

18:07

not only that, the British

18:09

had broadcast accusations that Henke

18:12

was a war criminal, having

18:14

reportedly shot survivors of SS

18:16

ceramic, a British passenger ship

18:18

Henke's U-boat had torpedoed. He

18:20

was very arrogant, in fact he was

18:22

so arrogant, he believed as the Nazis

18:24

did that the Aryan race was superior.

18:26

But he also

18:29

believed that Hitler was inferior and

18:31

he was afraid that they would

18:33

lose because he thought that the

18:35

Nazi hierarchy was inferior. And

18:37

now this avowed Nazi was

18:40

faced with the interrogators of Fort Hunt,

18:43

mostly German-Jewish refugees.

18:46

They got some information from him.

18:48

Not least on some recent German

18:51

naval innovations, including

18:53

a much more sophisticated radar

18:55

system and a new 37 millimeter

18:58

anti-aircraft flat gun, almost

19:01

twice the size of its predecessor. To

19:03

get him to talk some more, the

19:06

interrogators threatened to hand Henke over to

19:08

the British, a tactic

19:10

that became a classic technique of Fort

19:12

Hunt. Threatening to turn

19:14

captives over to those they most feared

19:17

often helped elicit crucial technical,

19:19

technical and psychological details of

19:22

the German war machine. Despite

19:26

having no intention of ever doing

19:28

so, Fort Hunt personnel

19:31

would even threaten to hand detainees

19:33

over to the Soviets. And

19:35

that worked very well. But in Henke's

19:37

case, the technique soon

19:40

backfired. He was afraid

19:42

that if he was turned over to

19:44

the British he would be considered war

19:47

criminal and would be hanged. And he

19:49

actually eventually, essentially committed suicide by in

19:51

mid-daylight going out and scaling one of

19:53

the fences. And he was shot by

19:56

one of the guards. Henke.

20:00

was an outlier though, the only

20:02

recorded death of an inmate at Fort

20:04

Hunt throughout its history. While

20:07

the treatment of captives could involve

20:09

threats, that was usually a

20:12

last resort. The interrogators

20:14

soon found that a softer approach

20:16

was far more effective. It

20:19

was not a retreat, but their

20:21

rooms were relatively comfortable. They generally

20:23

had free reign of the area.

20:25

They had different activities. They could

20:27

play ping pong, they could play

20:29

pool, they could go swimming. They

20:31

could even play horseshoes, a game

20:33

where horseshoes are thrown toward a

20:35

pole some 40 feet away. That

20:38

kind of surprised me because if you've seen

20:40

horseshoes, they're big heavy iron things and I

20:43

would be nervous if I gave a German a

20:45

horseshoe and said here throw this. And

20:48

if a captive offered up especially good

20:50

intelligence, they were rewarded

20:52

even further. They might

20:54

take them into a fancy steak dinner in

20:56

town or a movie or

20:59

in the case of one general, a

21:02

high-end Washington DC brothel.

21:05

During that excursion though, his

21:08

handler was met with an unwelcome sight.

21:10

It was raided by the local

21:12

police. Knowing that a Nazi

21:14

general was currently in the building on

21:16

his accord, the Fort Hunt

21:19

office's heart skipped. This is

21:21

going to be a real mess. But while clearing

21:23

the room, the police are

21:25

met with an even bigger problem. It

21:27

turned out there were also a lot of senators and

21:29

a congressman there.

21:32

Seeing the potential fallout they could cause,

21:35

the police simply walked out. They

21:37

realized it would be a bigger

21:39

mess. In fact, the

21:41

subject of brothels became a significant

21:44

source of intelligence on the men held

21:46

at Fort Hunt. The

21:48

Germans had an official

21:50

brothel program. With

21:52

the establishments numbered and licensed, German

21:55

soldiers were even handed brothel

21:57

cards. So for example,

22:00

There might be brothel number five and

22:03

they would have different women there So if

22:05

a soldier or a sailor went there he

22:07

had to keep a card with where he

22:09

went and who he was with Learning

22:13

of this the intelligence personnel

22:15

at Fort Hunt spotted an opportunity

22:18

First of all if they were interrogating

22:20

somebody and they said oh, I see

22:22

that you saw Marie at brothel number

22:24

four How was that and they

22:26

go well if these guys already know that? They

22:29

probably know everything so I might as well just

22:31

tell them everything I know and

22:33

it often worked for another reason If

22:36

a soldier was married or was afraid his

22:38

mother would find out he didn't want anybody

22:40

to know that so that could be a

22:42

Tool that they could use to try to

22:44

get information because they already felt guilty in

22:47

one instance This guilt

22:49

elicited critical intelligence from a German

22:52

officer Getting drunk

22:54

one night the soldier could hide

22:56

his remorse no more Relenting

22:58

he told his captors everything they

23:00

wanted to know Including

23:03

exactly where the 10th Panzer Division had been

23:05

and to his knowledge where it was going

23:07

to be cabling

23:10

the information to forward units in

23:12

Europe the Allies bombed the

23:14

division almost completely out of the Horse

23:20

hunters interrogators honed several other to

23:22

get back One

23:26

saw them wear a similar rank to

23:28

the Nazi officer being questioned a

23:31

tactic learnt from the British the British

23:34

learned that we are interrogating prisoners You

23:36

have a lot more success if the

23:38

interrogator is either at or like one

23:41

rank below the person you're interrogating And

23:43

so they use that at Fort Hunt so

23:46

many of the soldiers who were there were

23:48

young You know they were like private first

23:50

class or something and maybe a sergeant But

23:52

when they were interrogating a major they

23:54

would put the major badges on Another

23:58

tactic involved recruiting and

24:00

formers or stool pigeons

24:02

among the detainees. One

24:05

example was a fellow by the name of Count

24:08

Maximilian Korath. An

24:10

Austrian aristocrat, Count Korath's father

24:12

had been imprisoned by the

24:14

Nazis following the Anschluss. He

24:17

didn't like Hitler, he didn't like what was going on. He

24:19

came to them and said that he'd be interested in doing

24:21

what he could to help. And

24:24

as the second in command on a German

24:26

U-boat, Korath had the

24:28

bona fides necessary to get his

24:30

comrades to talk. So

24:32

he roomed with a number of

24:34

German U-boat prisoners and he was

24:36

very, very effective in getting information

24:38

out of them. Including

24:41

on the Nazis' new

24:43

T-5 acoustic torpedo. The

24:46

prisoner got really excited, his voice went

24:48

up, and he just started describing it

24:50

in great detail. The

24:52

torpedo honed in on the sound of

24:54

propellers, rendering even inaccurate

24:57

launches a danger to its

24:59

targets. All

25:01

of this was gold to the Allies, knowing

25:04

what military innovations the Germans

25:06

were bringing to the battlefield, and

25:08

how they could potentially foil them. In

25:11

some cases though, captives

25:14

refused to play ball, flatly

25:16

denying knowledge of just about anything.

25:20

Unbeknownst to them, however, the

25:22

men at Fort Hunt had a backup plan.

25:25

They would have hidden microphones

25:27

to eavesdrop on conversations of

25:29

these German prisoners. Which

25:32

proved particularly useful when

25:35

uncooperative detainees returned from

25:37

interrogations. For example,

25:39

one German pilot, he said,

25:42

you know, he's just a regular pilot, no big deal. When

25:44

he got back to his room, however. He told his

25:46

roommate, he says, you know, I told them I'm just

25:49

a pilot, actually I'm a very high ranking pilot, but

25:51

now I have to make sure that they think that

25:53

I'm a low ranking pilot. And

25:56

not only that, he said, I lied

25:58

about where this particular manufacturing plant was,

26:00

I said I didn't know where it was, I knew exactly

26:02

where it was, I said there were 10,000 people

26:05

who worked there, actually there were 20,000 people. In

26:08

line with the secrecy surrounding Fortend,

26:10

the eavesdropping unit was stationed in its

26:13

own building, codenamed the Honey

26:15

Circle. Usually there were 12 soldiers

26:18

listening in on conversations. There was

26:20

something significant, they would make a

26:22

transcript of the conversation. Occasionally

26:25

though, the Allies didn't need

26:27

to do anything to glean important

26:29

information. Sometimes

26:32

it came to them. A

26:36

very high ranking mechanic in the Luftwaffe,

26:39

they put him out of the army

26:41

because they found out that his ancestors

26:43

were Jewish, but they allowed him to

26:45

work in a Junker airplane factory, and

26:48

one day he decided to steal a

26:50

brand new Junker mid-ranging bomber and fly

26:52

it to an American base, and

26:55

he landed it, I think he didn't know how

26:57

to drop the landing gear because he did a

26:59

belly landing at this American base in Luxembourg. They

27:01

said here, how would you like to have a

27:03

brand new airplane, and all the specs for it.

27:06

Thanked for his efforts, the

27:08

Luftwaffe mechanic ended up working with the

27:10

Americans at Fort Hunt. There

27:13

he informed on captured pilots'

27:15

conversations, and ultimately

27:17

even interrogated them himself.

27:21

But German POWs weren't the only

27:23

focus at Fort Hunt. Aiding

27:26

and abetting American captives formed

27:28

a whole other unit in the

27:30

operation. By

27:46

early 1944, American airman Lawrence Dennis had been a POW at

27:48

Starlag Luft 17B in Austria for several months. his

28:00

B-17 bomber having been shot

28:02

down over Norway. Arriving

28:04

at the camp, Dennis was

28:07

shocked by how reasonably he and

28:09

his fellow airmen were treated. One

28:11

thing that Gering did that actually

28:14

was positive, I hate to say

28:16

it, but he convinced Hitler that

28:19

prison camps for American

28:21

flyers, or Allied flyers,

28:23

they should treat them much better than

28:26

other prison camps. And the reason was

28:28

that he said if they know that

28:30

we're treating them well, probably they will

28:32

treat our pilots well also. And

28:35

this fairer treatment even extended

28:37

to allowing POWs to receive mail.

28:41

One day, Dennis received a letter

28:43

from an old school friend, one

28:46

Erma Wotkins. Reading

28:48

the letter, it seemingly contained

28:50

nothing of note, which is

28:53

why it got through the camp's screening process in the

28:55

first place. What the

28:57

Germans didn't know though, was

28:59

that among the Allied POWs

29:01

throughout the Stalag-Lust camps, a

29:04

huge cryptography program was

29:06

underway, all

29:08

coordinated thousands of miles away

29:11

at Fort Hunt. Knowing

29:14

how to read the code, Dennis's

29:16

letter from a high school sweetheart

29:19

had a very different message. The

29:22

code read, General Eisenhower

29:25

planning for your welfare and

29:27

safety. Sit tight and await

29:29

orders. When

29:31

we talked to people who actually had been

29:34

in these camps, they said one of the

29:36

most valuable things that they did was by

29:38

sending these messages, they realized that the Americans

29:40

were doing everything they could to have their

29:42

backs, and if nothing else, it

29:45

was a tremendous morale booster. But

29:47

encrypted letters of support weren't

29:49

all these POWs we're getting

29:52

from PO Box 1142. People

29:55

at Fort Hunt who were writing letters to

29:57

prisoners in camps, what they'd do is they'd

29:59

say, you know, something's coming, look

30:01

out for this package that's coming,

30:03

and the package would be sent

30:05

from some bogus organization. These

30:08

packages contained everything from ping pong

30:10

paddles and packs of cards, to

30:13

cribbage boards and chess sets, but

30:16

stuffed inside these were the real

30:18

gifts. German money,

30:20

maps, radios, and

30:22

even, in some instances,

30:25

pistols. So if anyone tried

30:28

to escape from one of these camps... While

30:30

known as the Escape and Evasion Unit, or

30:33

MIS-X, to those stationed there,

30:36

its work was top secret, even

30:39

by Fort Hunt standards. In

30:42

fact, to others at the base, all

30:44

that was known about the unit was the name of

30:46

its building, the Creamery.

30:53

Everybody else had a clue what

30:55

they were doing, and they really

30:57

were very, very independent. While

31:00

the Escape and Evasion Unit's work may

31:02

have been highly classified, ironically,

31:04

many of its letters and parcels

31:07

went to Stalag Luft III, the

31:10

German POW camp later immortalized in

31:12

the Hollywood film The Great Escape.

31:14

But it wasn't just the messages and

31:17

packages into these camps that were important. The

31:20

Creamery wanted to know what their

31:22

captured comrades used. After

31:25

all, they were on the ground, and

31:27

often had months, if not years, of

31:30

fighting experience. In

31:32

one instance, an American POW wrote

31:34

back that the Air Force needed to

31:36

change the design on the B-17 bomber's

31:39

forward hatch. It often

31:41

jammed, he wrote, making ejecting

31:43

dangerous or impossible in case of

31:46

an emergency. Meanwhile,

31:48

other captives relayed back what they had

31:50

seen of enemy troop movements, and

31:53

even of any obvious changes in morale

31:55

among their German captors. All

31:58

through the cryptographic system. formulated

32:00

and run from Fort Hunt. Also

32:05

for pilots and members of bombers and so

32:07

forth, they would give them packets

32:09

so that if they were shot down,

32:12

they could hopefully escape capture. So they'd

32:14

have maps, they would have water purifying

32:16

tablets, they would have fish hooks so

32:18

that hopefully they could avoid capture and

32:21

that of course was the most desirable thing. They

32:24

would give them directions. If you're shot down, where do you

32:26

go? Well, you try to head toward the Pyrenees and if

32:28

you can get through the Pyrenees into Spain, you're a lot

32:30

better off. If you can make it all the way to

32:32

Gibraltar, you're even better off. Back

32:36

at Fort Hunt, alongside the

32:38

incoming letters from American POWs

32:40

in Europe, a base

32:42

was flooded with other mail. There

32:45

literally were tons and tons and

32:47

tons of captured German documents. This

32:50

all fed into the military intelligence

32:52

research section. MIRS

32:54

and their job was to

32:57

translate and evaluate these captured

32:59

German documents. All

33:01

to compile a crucial document. Officially,

33:05

it was called the Order of Battle

33:07

of the German Army. To

33:10

those at Fort Hunt though, it went

33:12

by a different name. Affectionately called

33:14

the Red Book because it had a red cover.

33:17

Detailing every single division

33:19

of the German Army, their

33:21

commanders and primary functions, the

33:24

book became one of the most important

33:26

sources of military intelligence the Allies had

33:28

on their enemy. And

33:30

it was extremely helpful when the

33:33

Allies were planning their attack on

33:35

D-Day in Normandy. Each

33:37

man in MIRS had a specialty.

33:41

Robert Sutton's friend, Paul Fairbrook,

33:43

was focused on the German High Command.

33:46

And not long after the failed attempt on

33:48

Hitler's life on the 20th of July 1944,

33:51

Paul noticed something

33:55

odd. He looked at the

33:57

org chart for the hierarchy and he saw

33:59

a new box for a morale

34:01

officer. Mentioning it

34:04

to his superior, Paul gets

34:06

permission to investigate further. One

34:08

thing that was wonderful, I think, about that

34:10

program and other programs is the people were

34:12

so motivated that they'd require almost no supervision

34:14

at all. Tracking down

34:17

more intel, Paul comes to

34:19

a striking conclusion. This

34:22

morale officer was

34:24

really anything but, instead

34:26

ensuring the loyalty of everyone

34:29

around the Fuhrer. One

34:32

of Hitler's main concerns, and he thought

34:34

actually his main concern, was his safety.

34:36

And he thought that was at least

34:38

as significant, if not more significant, than

34:41

fighting the war after the assassination attempt.

34:45

In other words, the German High

34:47

Command was devolving into a paranoid

34:49

fight for survival, instead

34:51

of commanding its forces properly in the field. One

34:54

of the very significant piece of news. Indeed,

34:57

by early 1945, the

35:00

German forces had almost completely

35:02

collapsed. But even after

35:04

VE Day on May 8th, many

35:07

of the personnel at Fort Hunt weren't

35:09

finished. With hundreds

35:11

of thousands of Nazi soldiers to

35:13

process, the interrogating expertise

35:16

of these men was invaluable.

35:19

Some of the men actually went to Europe. Working

35:22

Major Paul Kubala, who

35:24

ended up debriefing perhaps the

35:26

most significant Nazi to fall

35:28

into Allied hands. He

35:30

actually became the handler early on,

35:32

and the first interrogator of Göring. And

35:35

he actually wrote several reports about

35:37

Göring. Several Fort

35:39

Hunt personnel even went to Nuremberg,

35:42

working as translators for the likes of Göring,

35:45

Chief of the Luftwaffe High Command, and

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iOS or Android. As

37:17

the war ended, P.O. Box

37:19

1142 became a

37:21

facility of quite a different dimension.

37:25

Whereas previously it had interrogated Nazi

37:27

captives to help defeat the Germans,

37:31

soon it was interrogating them to help

37:33

defeat a new enemy, the

37:35

Soviet Union. And

37:38

significant to that were some

37:40

of the passengers of German submarine U-234,

37:43

which included a

37:45

general by the name of Kessler. They

37:49

were interested in what he could tell them about

37:51

the German capabilities. In particular,

37:53

the Messerschmitt jet that was

37:55

disassembled and placed on board

37:57

U-234, Kessler's

37:59

U-234. boat. What could it

38:01

do? How useful was it? What happened? How

38:03

did it fight? And so forth. Kessler

38:06

told them everything, detailing

38:08

just how advanced this new

38:10

plane was. Germans, you

38:12

know, the capabilities that they had, their

38:14

abilities with aircraft, rockets and so forth,

38:16

was far superior to anything that the

38:18

Allies had at the time. And that

38:20

became one of the important parts in

38:23

Fort Hunt. So much

38:25

so that one of the scientists from

38:27

U234 was recruited by the

38:29

Americans at the base, Dr.

38:32

Hein Schleich. Who was

38:35

an expert in radio waves. One

38:38

of the first of 1,800 Nazi

38:41

scientists invited to work for the

38:43

Americans under Operation Paperclip, Schleich

38:46

lived in the United States for the rest

38:48

of his life. Under

38:50

the program, he helped

38:52

develop the infrared technology still

38:54

used in stealth aircraft today.

38:57

You put all these things together and

38:59

I think had the potential and I

39:01

think it actually was very useful to

39:03

the Americans as the Cold War started

39:05

to heat up. For

39:07

Robert Sutton, the most significant

39:10

name to pass through Fort Hunt was

39:12

not a scientist nor a

39:14

soldier, but a diplomat. Gustav

39:17

Gilger. He was

39:20

the attache, essentially the ambassador

39:22

from Germany to Russia until

39:24

Operation Barbarossa. He had

39:26

a lot of very valuable information about

39:29

the Soviet Union. Even

39:31

Joseph Stalin had recognized the importance

39:33

of Gilger, remarking that

39:37

German heads of state and German

39:39

ambassadors to Moscow came and went,

39:42

but Gustav Gilger remained. And

39:47

one thing that he said that became part

39:49

of the program, the United States program, he

39:51

said psychologically the people in Russia are very

39:53

unhappy with their lot in life. A

39:57

unit tasked with waging psychological war

39:59

facts. could be highly effective,

40:01

Hilgar argued, in fomenting

40:03

unrest behind the Iron Curtain.

40:06

And so the CIA essentially did that,

40:08

developed a whole psychology section dealing with

40:11

the Soviet Union. What's

40:13

more, the agency hired

40:15

Hilgar himself. He

40:18

also worked for a time within

40:20

the Galen Organization, the

40:23

West German intelligence network sponsored

40:25

by the Americans, and

40:27

run by former Nazi general Reinhard

40:30

Galen. You can

40:32

hear all about that in Truce Bies two-part

40:34

special on the life of Galen, who was

40:37

also stationed at Fort Hunt for several months

40:39

following the war. It's

40:41

also thought that Wernher von Braun, architect

40:44

of the Nazis V-2 rocket program,

40:47

may have gone through Fort Hunt

40:49

under Operation Paperclip. Even today,

40:52

some of his files are redacted, which is not

40:54

surprising to historians like Robert,

41:01

given the compromised nature of

41:04

many of the men hired

41:06

through Operation Paperclip, via

41:08

bases like Fort Hunt. Von

41:10

Braun, after he died, we found out that

41:12

he had been a member of the SS.

41:15

It also turns out that the

41:17

places where they were building the

41:19

rockets, they were underground facilities in

41:21

the middle of Germany. And the

41:23

people who worked on building these

41:26

rockets were prisoners from concentration camps.

41:28

He knew about that, not only did he know

41:31

that, but he actually saw them. He was very

41:33

familiar with that. They were the ones who were

41:35

working there. It's the most horrible conditions you could

41:37

imagine. They'd work underground for days on end. The

41:39

death rate was appalling. Gustav

41:42

Hilgar, the German ambassador to

41:44

the Soviet Union, hired at Fort Hunt

41:47

by the CIA, was

41:49

no less implicated in Nazi war

41:51

crimes. held

42:00

his prisoners there, he certainly didn't do anything

42:02

to try to stop it. So whether he

42:04

was complicit or whether he simply allowed the

42:06

treatment of Jews in Italy, he certainly did

42:08

not do anything to try to stop it.

42:10

And that, I think, is something that became

42:13

clear a little bit later on that he

42:15

had a dark side as well. That

42:20

as Operation Paperclip ramped up,

42:23

Fort Humpt wound down. With

42:26

the Second World War War, the

42:28

US government had a deal to honor.

42:31

They could use the site under a cooperative

42:33

agreement for the duration of World War II

42:36

plus one year. Over

42:40

that period, nearly 3,500 Nazi

42:44

soldiers, sailors and scientists

42:46

passed through the camps,

42:48

a fact the US authorities were

42:50

adamant no one could know anything

42:52

about. It was top

42:55

secret for so long and the people

42:57

who were there were sworn to secrecy.

42:59

All the facilities that the army built

43:01

there are also gone. You would never,

43:03

ever, ever know that anything like this

43:05

had happened in World War II. Except,

43:09

that is, if not for the

43:11

work of men like Robert Sutton, work

43:13

that culminated in a public reunion of

43:16

the men stationed at Fort Humpt, aka

43:19

PO Box 1142, in 2007. The

43:25

Park Service erected a monument to this

43:27

operation and a flagpole. And that's how

43:30

you would know that this happened at

43:32

Fort Humpt. For Robert

43:34

Sutton, who met many of the

43:36

men stationed at Fort Humpt, the

43:38

significance of the base lies in the

43:40

soldiers who were stationed there. Most

43:43

of them, in fact, that we talked to

43:45

who were at Fort Humpt had escaped from

43:48

Germany or Austria in the 1930s.

43:50

And I think that's one of the really wonderful stories

43:52

that we have. A story

43:54

which, if the men had had

43:56

it their way, may never have

43:58

come to light. I'm

44:06

Rhiannon Nieds. Join me

44:08

next time on True Spies

44:10

for the story of military

44:12

secrets and martial espionage, all

44:15

flowing out of Silicon Valley. Disclaimer.

44:29

The views expressed in this podcast are those of

44:31

the subject. These stories are told

44:33

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44:35

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44:51

if you have some time, why not forward

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the podcast to a friend? With

45:00

the deal apparently back on, Harper headed

45:02

back out to the Sacramento Delta to

45:04

retrieve the stash. He goes

45:06

to the island again, only to find

45:09

out that there was a huge storm

45:11

and a flood. The island

45:13

where he buried the boxes had

45:15

been submerged. He frantically dug in

45:18

the slimy sand, pulling at it

45:20

until he finally located the material.

45:23

But in the time since he stowed them away, the

45:26

boxes had rotted and the papers

45:28

were completely waterlogged. It's

45:30

all soaked through and moldy, so he

45:32

then has to dry out these dozens

45:35

or a hundred pounds of documents that

45:37

are just molded through. With

45:39

the majority of the material salvaged,

45:42

Harper breathed a sigh of relief and booked

45:44

a flight to Warsaw. My

46:00

expert guests and I journey across the

46:02

nation and through the years to

46:04

uncover the stories that have made the

46:06

United States. From first flight

46:08

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46:11

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46:13

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46:15

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