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Max. Dot Com. Warning.

1:00

This episode contains references to

1:02

strong violence throughout. This

1:05

is True Spies the podcast

1:07

that takes you deep inside

1:09

the greatest secret missions of

1:11

all time. Week by week

1:14

you hear the true stories

1:16

behind the operations that have

1:18

shaped the world we live

1:20

in. You'll meet the people

1:22

who live life under cover

1:24

for today, knows what it

1:27

as skills and what would

1:29

you do in that position.

1:31

I'm ran a needs. And

1:33

this is true Spies from

1:36

Spies Caped Studios. Three

1:38

years after her daughter's been kidnapped, Miriam

1:41

has kind of established herself as the

1:43

preeminent investigator for the cause of the

1:45

missing in the disappeared, And the more

1:48

she knows, the more she realizes that

1:50

specific danger she's And and yet she

1:52

knows she's not going to stop. The

1:58

Disappeared Part Two: Mother's

2:01

Day. That

2:03

kinda Fifteen Twenty four

2:06

team Ciudad Victoria, Mexico

2:08

Amidst the crowd celebrating

2:11

el Grito Mexico's. Independence

2:13

Day Miriam Rodriguez is some

2:15

Luis is. Doing. Anything but

2:17

fixated on a man a

2:19

few yards ahead. He follows

2:21

him further into the masses because

2:24

his mom says I haven't been

2:26

my site. Miriam makes the call

2:28

of her own to a federal

2:30

police contact. She decides or right

2:32

time to see whether this guy

2:34

means what he said. Time see

2:36

weather's gonna help me. I'll be

2:38

there and ten minutes to police

2:40

officer says. Rushing

2:42

to the scene he links up

2:44

the police who points out there

2:47

mark that's a commander Summer the

2:49

officer and his two deputies. Who

2:51

can telling Luis to stay put?

2:55

Us are a few seconds you he

2:57

sees summer time to save them. From

3:00

Not. Able to hear through the

3:02

dean of assessable is a

3:04

conversation seems pursue almost friendly.

3:08

Within a minute, Summer and the three

3:10

offices are headed to. Bury a

3:12

sensor. they cross through, then march

3:14

on and out of sight. Luis.

3:18

Wonders if they're simply tipping summer

3:20

off dissing a massacre. That

3:23

then Miriam gets a cool. Meet

3:26

me. Is a State Attorney General's

3:28

Office says this assess. Summer has

3:31

been arrested. So.

3:33

Begins their first formal interview with one

3:35

of the people involved. The Bitterness. Last

3:40

week we heard how Mexicans

3:43

shopkeeper Miriam Rodriguez decided to

3:45

take on her daughter's kidnappers

3:47

the Zetas. In

3:49

this this second episode of True

3:51

Spies to Pop special on the

3:53

Hunt, you'd hear how Miriam tightened

3:55

and met her and her targets.

3:58

Despite the dangers in those. Earnest

4:01

mad cow campaign to go after

4:03

the Zetas which is unthinkable. Hard

4:05

men people who have dedicated their

4:07

lives to organized crime to kind

4:09

of people from kill seventy two

4:11

migrants are very hundred bodies and

4:13

mass graves. Such was

4:15

the ubiquity of kidnapping in the next

4:18

can state of Tamaulipas that the Attorney

4:20

General had established in office to deal

4:22

specifically with the cinnamon and. And

4:25

now Marion Rodriguez was inside

4:27

that very office with someone

4:30

involved in her daughter's abduction.

4:32

Miriam and managed to do this by

4:35

sheer force of personality and because in

4:37

some ways there's a hierarchy of need

4:39

that isn't necessarily based on what you've

4:41

been through. There certainly people who had

4:43

been through worse than Miriam, which she

4:45

just wanted it more. Summer

4:47

was led into interrogation. Room and

4:50

began to testify. Marion's

4:54

to watching through the to a dog.

4:58

And it's clear from the

5:00

evidence and from pictures I've

5:03

seen that it was in

5:05

a friendly entirely hands off

5:07

questioning. Nice is

5:09

as an. Honor the New York

5:12

Times investigative journalist who is

5:14

reported on there and story

5:16

for years. She notes said

5:18

in Mexican police. Parlance:

5:20

heavy handed interrogations are

5:23

called therapy. We

5:25

would more commonly known as torture. Offseason

5:29

Therapy. Santa. Concerned that

5:32

Karen was kidnapped. But denied

5:34

that he had anything to do with it. There

5:37

were rumors she was working for a rival

5:39

cartel. I used the Gulf Cartel. That's

5:41

why she was taken. Extreme.

5:45

That's. Not possible. Marion

5:47

thought. Yes, she'd gone

5:49

off the rails. The suits. No

5:51

Naka. Summer

5:53

continued. Adding that. He only

5:55

heard second hand what happened to her

5:58

and that was to seep into. Standing

6:01

behind the to a glass to the side

6:03

of the room. Miriam. Freezes,

6:07

Is the first time she confronts reality that

6:09

her daughter spite of what she's told herself.

6:12

That she might actually be. Not

6:16

only that, Summer. Says

6:19

it's always a children and off

6:21

away Miriam starts to feel saint.

6:24

But sooner continues also because a

6:27

towel the names of other people

6:29

involved. Marion takes out had notebook

6:31

and writes down the names. One

6:35

was already dead, another in

6:37

prison for another crime. but

6:39

then Summer says another name

6:42

Christiana. Hearing.

6:44

His physical description miriam look

6:46

soup. And. Miriam remembers Cristiano

6:48

quite clearly squishy on with been

6:51

with Sama on the day that

6:53

they asked for second ransoms, stopped

6:55

traffic on Sport explore. Summer

6:58

tells the offices where they can

7:00

find Cristiano he petals lead on

7:02

the street corner in the or

7:04

Us feel Tehran neighborhood. Sir

7:08

arrest Cristiano as a christian

7:10

of concern for questioning sentences

7:12

for younger players gangster seventeen

7:14

of time. But. The

7:17

fact that the suspect is just a

7:19

kid makes no difference to the Federal

7:21

police officers. In the room they start

7:23

to conduct their quote Unquote Therapy.

7:26

Cristiano cries out for his mother.

7:29

Mary and is watching the seen through the to

7:31

laid off. And Miriam

7:33

shows the steep pang of

7:36

sympathy something Cyril. almost. Then

7:38

he says he's hungry. Marion's

7:40

reasons crumbles. When she passed

7:42

with her and she goes into gives it to

7:44

him in the boy eats. Them.

7:48

Cristiano. Starts to talk.

7:51

To tell her everything. The. Picture

7:53

of what happened that night and

7:55

who is involved. Stuff to sharpen.

7:58

Summer is right, Son and. Peat

8:00

moss. In San Fernando, Cristiano

8:02

tells miriam. Santa? was

8:04

that a nice occurrence? kidnapping? As

8:07

was another sister called sweetie. That

8:09

he's now did. Patheon. He says.

8:13

Is that is checked com phone

8:15

after the kid nothing there were

8:17

picture of armed man riding and

8:19

how trump Cristiano says we didn't

8:21

know what I was we assumed

8:23

the Gulf Cartel. that's why she

8:25

was killed. Cristiano

8:28

even tells her were Karen is

8:30

buried. Shortly after the

8:32

offices so Cristiano into the back of

8:35

the police car. Directing

8:37

them to the site. Eventually,

8:39

Christiana points out that that

8:41

trunk. Marion.

8:43

Sees she's been there before. It's

8:46

the bus or era. To she family

8:49

connections. Okay and only was my daughter's year

8:51

she was killed here. Getting.

8:54

Out of the car, Cristiano walks over

8:56

to a patch of dirt. Since

8:59

Karen's remains were buried here,

9:02

Marry him freezes, Call

9:05

now suddenly. Standing was a daughter

9:07

is buried. She said

9:09

mom. The remnants

9:12

of the other sisters had collapsing

9:14

around her. Even more

9:16

so than Chat Sama. Johnson

9:18

or that her daughter's death. The

9:21

offices call in a forensics

9:23

team digging the area up.

9:25

They find bone fragment. But

9:28

soon. Miriam discovers that Mexican

9:30

Forensics. Is no better than Mexican

9:32

Policing. The State

9:35

of New York technologies at their

9:37

disposal and Ziyad to have an

9:39

honor and complete incompetence and managing

9:42

samples, evidence collection and and matching

9:44

those things up to Dna of

9:46

families. Months

9:50

go by without any lot of

9:52

amounts the dna samples that by

9:54

now smearing. As a close associate

9:56

of the federal. Police officers his last

9:59

summer. along with several other

10:01

members of the authorities she's come across on

10:03

her journey. After

10:05

applying constant pressure, she finally

10:07

gets a result. After

10:10

forcing them to send these samples to

10:12

Washington in the United States

10:14

to get tested and then returned back,

10:17

she confirmed that the few small

10:19

bones that they've discovered are her

10:22

daughter's. And so, a

10:25

year after she was kidnapped, Karen's

10:28

family finally held her funeral.

10:31

To explain why this matters so much,

10:33

you know, a gravestone is where

10:35

you go to mourn your loved one.

10:37

It's a physical anchor that tethers you

10:40

to their loss. It is the

10:42

embodiment of closure, and if you don't have

10:44

that, again, you're stuck in

10:46

this liminal, ethereal space of perpetual mourning

10:48

and perpetual hope in this toxic

10:51

cycle. After the

10:53

service's conclusion, Miriam and

10:55

her daughter Azalea stood motionless by the

10:58

casket. Azalea

11:00

turned to her mother and asked, When

11:03

does this end? When are you going to stop

11:05

this mad quest? Miriam

11:07

lifted the casket and pulled out the

11:09

bag of bones. She

11:12

replied, This is what they left

11:14

me of my daughter. You think I'm

11:16

going to stop? But she's not. Leaving

11:19

the church, Miriam pulled out her notebook

11:21

and turned to a list of names.

11:25

She has Cristiano, she has Sama. But

11:27

there were now other names on the list, many

11:30

others, including

11:32

one that's her priority. Hello,

11:36

I'm Elizabeth Day, the creator and host of How

11:39

to Fail. It's the podcast that celebrates the

11:41

things in life that haven't gone right. And what, if

11:43

anything, we've learned from those who

11:46

are here to help us succeed better.

11:48

Each week, my guests share three failures,

11:50

sparking intimate thought provoking and funny conversations.

11:52

You'll hear from a diverse range of

11:54

voices sharing what they've learned through their

11:56

failures. Join me Wednesdays for a new

11:59

episode each week. This is

12:01

an Elizabeth Day and Sony Music Entertainment

12:03

original podcast. Listen now wherever

12:05

you get your podcasts. It

12:15

turns out that through some extraordinary

12:17

miracle of mercy, someone

12:19

who was kidnapped alongside Karen was

12:21

allowed to live. And

12:23

that someone was actually a friend of the family.

12:27

Carlos, a mechanic who

12:29

lived nearby, Miriam is desperate

12:31

to make a connection. She

12:33

needs to know what he saw, she needs to know what he heard. There's

12:36

more, he's the only living witness who

12:38

can actually tell her honestly what happened,

12:40

what transpired. And now Miriam

12:43

has managed to get hold of him online. Carlos

12:46

refused to meet with her and tell her where he was. He's

12:48

obviously traumatized, he's seen people murdered in front

12:50

of him, he barely escaped with his life.

12:53

On the promise that if he ever spoke, they'd come for

12:56

him and they'd kill him. And as a promise he knew

12:58

they would keep. But after

13:00

Miriam tells him that Summer and Cristiano

13:02

are now in jail, he relents. And

13:05

not having to. He

13:07

convinces Carlos to give a declaration

13:09

or statement to the prosecutorial authorities.

13:14

The prosecutors' office ensued out of

13:16

Victoria. Carlos sits

13:18

down with several officers and

13:21

Miriam. She's by now so close

13:23

to the prosecutors and police and so central to

13:25

their investigation that she's often allowed to sit in

13:28

on their interrogations and feed them questions.

13:30

Provide them with evidence that she's collected

13:32

to contradict or refute testimony

13:34

from whoever is speaking. Carlos

13:37

begins. This is the first

13:39

time she gets the grim, dark narrative

13:41

of what's happened to her daughter. On

13:45

the night of January 24th, 2014, Carlos

13:48

and his cousin go to Karen's house

13:50

to fix her car. Upon

13:53

arriving, two men walk out of

13:55

the front door to greet them. Karen's

13:58

not here, but you can see them. can wait

14:00

inside until she gets here, they say.

14:04

Walking into the house, Carlos sees Karen

14:06

tied up on the floor, her

14:08

face bloodied and swollen. Before

14:11

he can make a run for it, he's already on

14:13

the floor himself, not down by one of the zettas.

14:17

Then, tied up, Carlos and his cousin

14:19

are moved to a back room. They

14:23

and Karen are beaten intermittently

14:25

for hours, Carlos tells

14:27

Miriam. He then

14:29

tells her about their transport to the

14:31

Basarrero, in these agonizing days

14:34

of beatings and ransoms and calls

14:36

to their families demanding money. And

14:39

then... He tells her what happened

14:42

to Karen. They thought

14:44

she was involved with the Gulf cartel, Carlos

14:46

says. Carlos, he at

14:49

this point is almost purging himself of

14:51

all of this dark matter he's held

14:53

ever since Karen's kidnapping, what he saw,

14:56

what he witnessed. Two

14:58

men tried Karen to a tree near one

15:00

of the buildings, one

15:02

through a rope over one of the branches, while

15:05

the other tied a noose around Karen's

15:07

neck. Then,

15:09

they lifted her into the air. After

15:14

a few minutes, one of the

15:16

zettas turned to Carlos and his cousin. You

15:19

two have seen enough. Expecting

15:23

a bullet, Carlos closed his

15:25

eyes. After

15:27

a few seconds though, he heard not

15:30

a gunshot, but the zettas voice

15:32

again. You

15:34

can go.

15:36

He was let go of the warning that if he ever said anything,

15:39

he was done. Carlos

15:41

could not believe it. His

15:43

family had not even paid a ransom. But

15:46

sitting there at the prosecutor's kidnapping unit,

15:49

having heard the whole unthinkable

15:52

incident, Miriam

15:54

isn't done. He presses

15:56

Carlos for names, and he

15:58

remembers plenty. Carlos

16:01

tells her about someone named Comandante

16:03

Cherokee, another person

16:05

named Ulysses, a

16:08

different person named La Machora, which

16:10

is a very crude name for a

16:12

female seta, and then another female who

16:14

had been involved. Miriam notes

16:17

down each name. In

16:19

all, there were now ten

16:21

on her list. So

16:23

Miriam begins to kind of arm up the second chapter

16:25

of her hunt. In

16:34

the autumn of 2016, at

16:36

an evangelical church tucked away on

16:38

one of Theudad Victoria's side streets,

16:41

a sermon is underway. The

16:44

priest is imploring those before him

16:46

to give themselves to God. But

16:49

one of the parishioners sitting in the pews

16:51

is paying no notice. She's

16:54

staring at the assistant to his left,

16:57

a tall dark man in his early

16:59

thirties. A few

17:01

minutes into the service, the chapel

17:03

doors burst open. The

17:05

police come in. Stunned,

17:08

the priest asks what's going on. But

17:11

the police pay him no notice either, walking

17:13

straight past and putting the altar boy

17:16

in handcuffs. And

17:18

the pastor is stunned. He

17:21

knows this young man to be a born-again

17:23

Christian trying to get his life together. The

17:26

officers march the altar boy outside, bundle

17:28

him into a police van, and after

17:31

conferring briefly with the woman in the pews,

17:33

drive off. The

17:36

priest walks over to the woman. And

17:38

he says, have you no mercy arresting

17:40

him? But this is

17:42

Miriam Rodriguez he's talking to. And

17:45

she sort of just stops and deadpan asks

17:48

the priest, where was his mercy

17:50

when they killed my daughter? What

17:52

the priest doesn't know is that

17:54

this man is a former zeta. And

17:57

not only that, he's the one

17:59

who... pulled the rope that hung Miriam's

18:01

daughter, Caris. And for

18:04

Miriam, that lodged quite deep. And

18:06

so she began a massive search

18:08

for him. After finding the

18:10

man via his nickname on a social media

18:12

deep dive, Miriam had seen the

18:14

profiles of his family members and

18:17

where some of them lived. Posing

18:19

as a newcomer to the area, Miriam

18:22

introduced herself to her new neighbor,

18:25

the Zetters' grandmother. And

18:28

so began spending time with her as casual

18:30

friends. After a few weeks,

18:33

she inquires about the grandmother's family.

18:36

What about the man whose picture is on

18:38

the mantelpiece? His grandmother says,

18:40

oh, he's doing really well, finally. He's a

18:42

born again Christian. He's actually

18:44

involved with the C. Fangelical Church in

18:46

Ciudad, Victoria. It's located here. Miriam

18:49

starts attending the church every day.

18:52

After a couple of weeks, she's sure.

18:55

The altar boy. That's

18:57

him. And she orchestrates the

18:59

arrests. Miriam Rodriguez is

19:01

mastering the art of being a

19:04

spy. She slowly arms

19:06

this remarkable and diffuse campaign.

19:09

And what she comes to realize

19:11

is investigations are no magic endeavor.

19:14

They are just about effort. It's about

19:16

showing up at the ice cream store

19:18

day after day after day. It

19:21

is about calling numbers until you

19:23

find the person willing to admit they are the

19:25

relative of so-and-so and then concocting a ruse that

19:28

allows you to get close to them. But

19:30

while espionage is often a monotonous

19:32

process, Miriam knows

19:34

it also requires moments of

19:36

creativity. By pretending

19:38

to be someone else, she finds where

19:40

these centers are located. Including

19:43

one who has now also gone clean and

19:45

got a formal job. But

19:48

she doesn't know where. So

19:51

she cleverly goes to the Social Security

19:53

Agency of Mexico because she knows this

19:55

person has a formal job, formal employment.

19:58

She knows he'll be in there. At

20:01

the agency, Miriam befriends one

20:03

of the clerks. She helps

20:05

Miriam look up the person's information, gives

20:07

her his birth certificate, gives her his

20:09

address. After Miriam hands

20:11

all the information over to her

20:13

police contacts, this target is also

20:16

arrested. Now four

20:18

zettas are behind bars, all

20:21

because of Miriam. She

20:23

is the wizard pulling

20:25

all the strings, the person with the master plan

20:27

who is feeding information and

20:29

strategically placing information in the hands of the

20:31

police. Eventually, Miriam

20:34

becomes so knowledgeable about the zettas'

20:36

operation that the authorities are turning

20:39

to her for intel on the group, who

20:41

the key players are, how they operate.

20:45

She becomes an incredibly valuable asset, having

20:47

real deep relationships with the police and

20:49

with prosecutors. Defending his

20:51

relatives, Miriam learns that

20:53

one zetta has become a used

20:55

car salesman in another state. She

20:58

forces the police to do an arrest warrant,

21:00

and she gathers intelligence through this network of

21:02

used car salespeople to find out exactly where

21:04

she is. And she actually hand draws a

21:07

map so that the police can't possibly screw

21:09

it up to show where he precisely is

21:12

located. But it's not

21:14

just the zettas Miriam's building intelligence

21:16

against. She's also

21:18

developing legal expertise to ensure they

21:20

stay behind bars. She

21:23

reads all the victims' rights laws. She

21:25

begins taking courses to understand how the

21:27

law is meant to work so that

21:29

she can use it against the authorities

21:31

denying her justice. Like, no, no, no.

21:33

When someone breaks into a home and

21:35

something is stolen, that elevates the level

21:37

of crime they've committed. Therefore, when

21:39

we arrest this person, we need to charge them like

21:42

this because that will mean more time in prison when

21:44

they're convicted. Miriam even

21:46

sets up an advocacy group for the

21:48

relatives of kidnapping victims. Collectivo

21:51

de Desaparasidos de San Fernando.

21:54

The collective for the disappeared of San

21:56

Fernando. Because she's also

21:58

realized it like... One of

22:00

the most effective ways to leverage government resources

22:03

is pressure. One of the most effective ways

22:05

to build that pressure is by

22:07

speaking in numbers. So if there's just one

22:09

of you, no matter how loud you are,

22:11

you can be ignored. But when there's hundreds

22:14

or thousands, there's a much more complicated scenario.

22:16

That's a voting block. That is a constituency.

22:19

So she creates this constituency which kind of

22:21

guides the ringleader towards

22:24

using the government systems for

22:26

their benefit. Soon,

22:29

Miriam Rodriguez is known across

22:31

Tamolipas and beyond. She

22:34

has established herself as a preeminent investigator

22:36

for the cause of the missing and

22:38

the disappeared. But there was

22:40

one zeta that even Miriam was struggling

22:43

to gather any intel on. Someone

22:45

that she referred to as El Florrero. A

22:48

relatively recent recruit, El

22:51

Florrero's whereabouts had proven elusive.

22:54

That is, until Miriam finally discovered

22:56

who the man's closest friend was

22:59

in the group. While

23:01

the friend was now dead, his

23:03

wife was not. So

23:06

Miriam posed as an old friend to her husband,

23:09

wanting to get back in touch. Building

23:12

a rapport with the widow, she asks

23:14

about her husband's friends. Whatever

23:17

happened to El Florrero? Miriam

23:19

asks. The widow, sure

23:22

enough, gives her his

23:24

location. He's on

23:26

a bridge in Matamoros selling sunglasses.

23:29

Miriam heads for the bridge, alone.

23:33

Spotting her mark, she pulls a pistol

23:35

from her purse. Approaching

23:38

from behind, she inches up to him.

23:41

And holds him at gunpoint. Only

23:43

then does she call in police backup, wanting

23:45

to confront the man herself first.

23:49

After that, Miriam and the

23:51

authorities working by her side go on

23:53

a spree of arrests. But

24:01

after three years of hunting down her

24:03

daughter's killers, Miriam's campaign

24:05

meets catastrophe. There's a prison break

24:08

at the main prison in Ciudad,

24:10

Victoria. Designated

24:12

specifically to house

24:14

Zeta inmates. And among

24:17

those Zetas are many of the people that Miriam

24:19

has put in prison. Including

24:21

the altar boy Miriam had seen arrested at

24:23

church. For the first

24:25

time, Miriam feels a sense

24:27

of panic. Throughout

24:30

her life, she's dismissed the notion of

24:32

fear, branding it just a word. But

24:35

now, fear is taking hold

24:37

of her. She begins to act

24:39

a bit more erratically and she begins to confess to people

24:41

that she sees the ends near,

24:43

that she believes she's going to be killed. But

24:46

while she knows the Zetas may come after her,

24:49

she is sure of something else too. She's

24:51

not going to stop. She does

24:53

ask for police protection. But

24:55

do people who are meant to protect her never answer the

24:58

phone? The protection never

25:00

shows. The situation

25:02

seems hopeless. You

25:04

couldn't script something more perfectly

25:07

concocted to show the ineptitude

25:09

and the almost cruel inefficiency of

25:12

this government than to have a

25:14

girl kidnapped and killed and a

25:16

mother have to single-handedly

25:18

find those responsible and put them in

25:20

prison and then have one of those

25:22

individuals escape from prison. Miriam

25:25

saw no option but to continue living

25:27

her life, however. Her

25:29

son and her daughter see her for the first

25:32

time, nervous about her safety. But she's also quite

25:34

guarded about these things. She doesn't want to scare

25:36

her children. As Mother's Day

25:38

rolls around, on May 10, 2017, Miriam arranges

25:40

to have lunch with Azalea

25:44

in San Fernando. And

25:46

plans to see her son later in the week because

25:48

he's got to stay and see Victoria where he's working. After

25:51

finishing lunch, Miriam heads to

25:53

the small store she owns. To

25:56

check receipts and make sure that everything checks out.

25:59

As night approaches, reaches, she

26:01

locks up. And

26:04

on the way home, she is

26:06

followed by a car full of men who

26:10

follow her to her house where she parks. Miriam

26:14

spots two men approaching. Before

26:17

she can reach for her gun, the men

26:20

shoot her multiple times. Hearing

26:23

gunfire, Miriam's husband rushes out of

26:25

the house to her side. Miriam

26:28

and her husband arrive a few minutes later

26:30

and rush Miriam to the hospital. But

26:33

it's too late. She's

26:36

already gone. Miriam

26:38

dies on Mother's Day, a metaphor

26:40

so perfect to epitomize what the saint

26:43

does for trying to convey to everyone

26:45

else that would dare to do

26:47

what Miriam had done, which is don't

26:50

do this because anyone can be

26:52

touched, even this now famous activist

26:54

who has come after us. Because

26:57

we killed her daughter, we're going to kill her on

26:59

Mother's Day out in front of her home, even

27:01

though she has been granted protection

27:04

by the very government that has failed

27:06

to enact any justice on

27:08

her behalf. The

27:15

fallout from Miriam's murder sweeps the

27:17

entire state of Tamaalipas. Researchers

27:21

attend the funeral, including

27:23

many of the region's top authorities. For

27:27

Miriam's son Luis, the scene

27:30

confirms just what a force his mother had

27:32

become in the area. Luis

27:34

begins talking to individuals and realizes like

27:37

this incredible network that his mother has

27:39

built, this curated

27:41

bespoke network of incredibly

27:44

powerful and useful people in

27:46

finding and getting to the bottom of the scourge

27:49

of Mexico's drug war, which is disappearances.

27:53

But for many in this network, the

27:56

funeral is an embarrassment. Scene.

28:00

They think they need to be there because this activist

28:02

has died and they have to show face because it

28:04

doesn't look good for them. And

28:07

soon it leaks that the state was meant

28:09

to have Miriam under armed protection. The

28:12

authorities begin to panic. Oh

28:15

crap. We have just

28:17

had an activist

28:19

murdered for seeking justice that

28:21

we could not bring to her on

28:23

Mother's Day in front of her home. It's hard to

28:26

concoct or fabricate a better metaphor for

28:29

a failed state than the narrative of

28:31

a mother who

28:33

is forced to seek justice for

28:35

a murdered daughter. And there's all

28:38

this crazy sort of chaotic effort to

28:40

both protect themselves from the blame that's

28:42

inevitably coming their way by making

28:45

false statements about how she actually had government

28:47

protection and at the same time cast the

28:49

blame on others and make it

28:51

seem as though they're doing something. Only

28:53

then does the decaying machinery of

28:56

the state click into gear. This

28:59

blitzkrieg sort of response in San Fernando

29:01

and across Tamaulipas happens where they're just

29:03

trying to arrest anyone who might be

29:05

responsible for the murder of Miriam. By

29:08

now though, a lot of those people

29:10

were dead. And the ones

29:12

Miriam had effectively put behind bars herself.

29:15

They had escaped and gone to ground. But

29:18

there was one who the police knew was out

29:20

there. La Mathura. The

29:23

woman Carlos mentioned. The

29:26

state police opened the file

29:28

Miriam had handed the months before on

29:30

La Mathura for the first time. An

29:33

entire folder. It

29:35

has everything from her height and weight

29:37

to her dress and occupation, along

29:40

with tens of photos. It

29:43

takes the police only a few hours

29:45

to track down and arrest La Mathura.

29:49

An exercise even Miriam hadn't managed

29:51

to convince them of doing before. But

29:54

even then, the Rodriguez family

29:56

was one step ahead. It

29:59

had already been. The leaned more of it's own

30:01

intel. Admit to

30:03

strong that his mother's funeral. Luis

30:06

had spotted some when he recognized from

30:08

school. Approaching him the

30:10

man asks a can you come outside with

30:12

me to someone who wants to talk to.

30:16

Reluctantly, Luis follows.

30:19

He walks with him to a truck and inside the

30:21

truck is someone Luis knows to be a member of

30:23

organized crime. But the man

30:25

has a strange. Look on his

30:27

face. Almost one of sadness. He

30:30

says look, I'm sorry about what happened to

30:32

your mom I always admired her and even

30:34

when she was doing what she did, I

30:37

admired what she did. Luis is

30:39

about to turn and had back inside. That.

30:41

The Man continues. I just

30:43

want to give you a name. Like.

30:47

Lewis's. Can

30:50

explain anything. I can give you any details

30:52

but you need this name if you're going

30:54

to figure out what. An

30:57

hour Lucci. That's the name

30:59

you need for disease. And the

31:01

guy in addition to giving him his name, gave him a

31:03

phone number. And who is. And

31:08

the guys. Have

31:10

already set to maternity leave. Any pulls

31:12

off but it's a lead so blue

31:14

he starts to do his homework. Following

31:17

in his mother's sister, Who

31:21

is? So Mrs. replaced his mother's

31:23

investigator of her murder two nights

31:25

ago. Was this unexpected inheritance. And

31:28

he tries some of the same trade craft.

31:30

Mary Anne Moss said. Lewis's taking

31:32

to Facebook to look at anonymous posts

31:34

about the structure of organized crime and

31:36

through his own sources. And through reading

31:38

he finds out a loser is kind

31:41

of the leader of the span of

31:43

criminals that belong to the set is

31:45

that operates in San Fernando. Topping

31:47

up some Us Mary other contacts

31:49

he gets and address. Then

31:52

he convinces at least to raid the

31:54

house taking him. Along with some say

31:56

break into this place and after an

31:58

initial sort of. Render lucy

32:01

rhesus for said. Police you

32:03

kinda had along with another man

32:05

and a half of coconspirators. as

32:07

much he says, i. Was just

32:09

long enough to them Tax

32:11

concessions the man says and

32:13

are so name specific guest

32:15

or killed your mother p

32:17

Organize the shit and the

32:19

person who paid for it

32:22

is this man as google.

32:24

Or. Else you know. And

32:26

that's it. They can crush him

32:28

anymore as Mangos the hospital eventually

32:30

succumbed to his wounds. Luis. Steps

32:32

that is such. Which he

32:35

has helpful. And much more

32:37

than Marion ever. Had at least formally.

32:40

Now that Miriam stead her murder investigation

32:42

has taken to the Federal level. A.

32:45

Federal police officer had helped man

32:47

catch summer but not was just

32:49

one individual. Now

32:51

the entire case. Has reached the

32:54

top so he's got people who

32:56

are capable and was resources to

32:58

help him. Investigate. His

33:00

mother's murder. They set up a

33:02

wire tap on the phone number Luis has given

33:04

at the funeral. Which. offers

33:07

up a trove of information, Within

33:10

a few weeks to several police has

33:12

mapped out known. Zetas and their associates

33:14

across sons and under. including

33:17

patted to cases, Marion's

33:19

assisted. They begin to

33:21

track his movements and realized this is very

33:23

sick. They don't know what it is but

33:26

the chatter on the phone is always. it's

33:28

something's wrong with him. Eventually they hear

33:30

that the Zetas and losing him to

33:32

a hospital. One of Luis,

33:34

his closest federal police, Clinton jumps

33:36

into his com alone. He

33:39

realizes this might be the only chance to find this

33:41

guy. But he doesn't know which. Hospital.

33:44

The wire tapped his ankles. Don't make it clear.

33:47

So the else aside, improvises. Respect

33:50

randomly stopping ambulances and the street me like.

33:53

Oh have you taken a patient? was

33:55

very sick who matches description of each

33:57

Ambulance crews says no. And

34:00

on the cusp of giving up, he

34:02

asks one last ambulance driver,

34:04

have you taken anybody that fits the description

34:06

to the hospital? He's like, yeah, actually, I

34:08

just dropped him off at the emergency room

34:11

at the hospital in the center of Ciudad,

34:13

Victoria. The officer floors it. He

34:15

figures, I've got no backup. Backup's going to take hours.

34:17

I need to do something if I'm going to get

34:20

this guy. But although he's working

34:22

alone, the officer has

34:24

some valuable intel on the men

34:26

around Patatacasa. Because he's

34:28

been listening to the wiretaps. Including

34:31

some of the names of Patatacasa's

34:33

bodyguards. So he goes up

34:35

to the person who's guarding him. And he acts

34:37

like he knows. He acts like he's a setter.

34:39

And he says, hey, you're the only one guarding

34:41

the boss, right? He's like, don't worry, I got

34:43

reinforcements coming. He goes into the room. At

34:46

first, a little confused, the

34:48

zetterer then relaxes. Backup

34:51

is coming. Meanwhile,

34:53

the officer approaches

34:55

the patient's bedside. Any

34:58

aspect of Acaiso if he knows who he is? He

35:00

shakes his head. And he says, well,

35:02

I know who you are. I'm

35:05

part of the federal police and you're under arrest. We have

35:07

the entire hospital surrounded. While

35:10

accompanying Patatacasa to a maximum

35:12

security prison in Mexico City,

35:15

the officer rings Luis. Is

35:18

there anything you'd like to ask him? The

35:20

officer asks. Yes.

35:23

Luis replies. Why did

35:25

he kill my mother? Patatacasa

35:28

responds immediately. Miriam

35:30

had become too much of a problem. You

35:32

know, the risk of killing her was less than

35:35

the risk of her continuing to dismantle our network.

35:38

Luis had already guessed as much. But

35:40

he wanted to hear it from the author of his

35:43

mother's murder himself. But

35:45

what about El Hugo, Patatacasa's

35:47

right hand man? The

35:49

man who had made the actual payment to

35:51

El Aluche to kill Miriam. Well,

35:55

within a few days, he had taken

35:57

Patatacasa's place at the apex of the Zeta

35:59

network. network. It turns

36:01

out, part of the case, it was actually quite

36:03

sick. He had liver failure, and he was going

36:06

for dialysis. But when he was

36:08

transferred in the process, he actually

36:10

dies. El Hugo was untouchable.

36:13

The police had nothing on him except

36:16

the testimonies of two, now dead, witnesses.

36:19

For Louise, it felt like the

36:21

end of the road. Louise

36:23

pressured the federal authorities to arrest El

36:26

Hugo one final time, but

36:28

heard nothing back. Tired

36:30

of the danger, the death,

36:32

and the dead ends that punctuated his

36:35

daily life, he gave up the hunt.

36:38

And he realizes he's not his mother. He

36:40

describes it to me once as that motor,

36:42

that motor that drives everything of a lost

36:44

child. You know, he's lost a sister,

36:46

and he's lost a mother, and it's almost destroyed

36:48

any internal mechanism he has. And even

36:51

as he wants justice, and even as he goes for it,

36:53

he also just doesn't want any more

36:55

problems. He doesn't want to

36:57

live the life of someone waiting to die

36:59

as his mother had. But

37:02

then, a few months later,

37:04

he turns on the news, and

37:06

is shocked by what he sees. The

37:10

police have raided El Hugo's house.

37:13

They go and try to arrest El Hugo,

37:16

and they're successful. But

37:18

only for a few hours. Because

37:20

it turns out, once they raid El Hugo's house,

37:23

they don't find anything more than a

37:25

few baggies of marijuana, which isn't enough to keep

37:27

him arrested. Again, according to the

37:29

Baroque and archaic system of Mexican law,

37:31

they need to have found something what

37:34

they call inflagrancia, like an automatic weapon

37:36

or something that would mean an immediate

37:38

crime, because they haven't built up a

37:40

big enough case to actually charge him

37:42

with anything. That same

37:44

night, El Hugo walks free.

37:48

Luis is devastated. The

37:50

pursuit of those responsible for Miriam's death

37:53

ends with grabbing the man

37:55

who paid for her murder, and then

37:57

having to release him the same night.

38:00

There simply wasn't enough hard evidence.

38:04

By this time, Azam Ahmed had gotten

38:06

to know Luis. The two

38:08

spent several years discussing Miriam's life and

38:11

the plight of civilians in Mexico's Zeta

38:13

heartlands. About

38:15

to publish an article on the story,

38:17

Azam wants first to see the Basuero

38:19

with his own eyes, the

38:22

Zeta base where Karen was murdered. Luis

38:25

hadn't been there either, but he

38:27

too wanted to go. We

38:30

drive back around these back roads, these

38:32

sandy roads for ages, because

38:34

we're looking for an abandoned ranch. We

38:36

realized later that we'd been

38:38

passing it and we just hadn't recognized it

38:41

because it's being farmed. The

38:43

game is brand new. The

38:46

entire apparatus looks completely

38:49

functioning and Luis's face

38:51

changes. I don't understand,

38:53

he says. And

38:56

so we go onto the property, Luis

38:58

opens the gate and we drive in.

39:00

It's a long sort of arching driveway

39:03

with a windmill and then we spot

39:05

the red tractor, which is where the

39:07

graveyard was. And as we're

39:09

wandering around, it's clear that

39:11

someone is farming this place. The

39:13

farmland, far from being fallowed, is like being

39:16

plowed. The buildings

39:18

that are there are being reconstructed. There's

39:20

new tractor implements. I mean, everything looks

39:22

like it's being refreshed. How

39:25

can this now be a farm, Luis

39:27

asks? The government said they

39:29

would keep it as a graveyard. And

39:32

again, for Luis, this is an extraordinarily traumatic

39:34

moment where he's not only at the place,

39:36

the sight, the origin of sort of everything that's

39:39

been done to them, but

39:41

it's now being reborn as something

39:43

else. Then, a truck

39:46

appears in the distance. It's

39:48

kind of turned all up to us. You

39:51

know, the photographer is working with an

39:53

iron. Oh man. Pulling up. The

39:57

driver gets in. Sort of a heavy. that

40:00

guy with the baseball cap. But

40:02

the scene plays out differently to

40:04

how Arzen first envisioned it. And

40:07

he and Luis waved to each other. They salute

40:10

one another and give

40:12

each other a hug. And I'm like, what? Arzen

40:15

goes over and joins in the conversation.

40:19

Luis is explaining the nature of the ranch and why

40:21

we're there and what happened. And the guy kind of

40:23

grimaces and he says, yeah, I bought

40:25

this place not too long ago. I'm trying to turn it into

40:27

a working farm. I'm

40:29

sorry about what happened to you. I obviously didn't know the

40:31

history of this place. After a little

40:33

more small talk, Luis says

40:35

his goodbyes. He and

40:37

Arzen head back to their car and drive

40:40

off. As we're driving

40:42

off, Luis just keeps his

40:44

eyes trained on the rear view.

40:49

And I'm talking to him, I'm like, wow, that's

40:51

so crazy. You know, you know this guy, how's

40:53

that possible? What a strange coincidence. He's your friend.

40:56

But Luis ignores him. He

40:59

just won't take his eyes off the mirror and he kind of speeds

41:01

up. Arzen tries again.

41:04

And I'm like, he's your friend, isn't that

41:06

weird? Then Luis turns to

41:08

him. And he looks at me

41:10

and he says, Arzen, he's not my fucking friend. Bewildered,

41:14

Arzen keeps quiet. Eventually

41:17

the car reaches the main road. And

41:20

he's like waving his phone around like

41:22

a madman looking for signal. Luis

41:25

turns to Arzen again. You

41:27

remember how I told you about El

41:30

Hugo, Luis says. And I'm

41:32

like, yeah, of course I know who El Hugo is. He's the guy who

41:34

paid for your mom's death. He's the guy that like, she's

41:37

still waiting to get arrested. Luis

41:39

says, that was

41:41

El Hugo's money man. It's

41:45

almost like this realigning of the

41:47

facts happening in real time, like I could

41:49

feel things clicking in place. Arzen

41:52

is stunned. Luis explains

41:54

that he met him once many years ago

41:57

at a party and it's seen him pop

41:59

up in his. suddenly

42:02

I'm like wait a minute the

42:04

person who paid for the murder

42:06

of your mother now owns

42:09

the ranch that sparked

42:11

her campaign because it

42:13

was a site where your sister

42:15

and her daughter Karen was killed Louise

42:18

nods and it's

42:21

this incredible sort of parable

42:23

of impunity that that

42:25

individual could actually buy this

42:28

desecrated land where Karen

42:30

had been you know tortured and

42:33

kidnapped all these years

42:35

after Miriam had put these people in

42:37

prison for that very act for having

42:39

operated in that specific location just

42:42

seemed like harder

42:44

to stomach than even fiction you

42:46

know the nature of what true

42:49

impunity looks like today

42:52

Louise has largely left the world

42:54

of his mother San Fernando's true

42:56

spy behind because he's got a

42:59

life to live and that life can't

43:01

be spent chasing ghosts

43:04

Azalea Miriam's other child has

43:07

also tried to move forward she's

43:09

married she's got a older son who's now

43:11

working in the United States for

43:13

Azim Miriam's legacy is

43:16

still a marvel an ordinary

43:18

mother standing up to the cartels

43:21

bringing at least some of them down in

43:23

the process and also

43:26

giving herself and many others somewhere

43:28

to cry to explain

43:30

why this matters so much in

43:33

my time in Mexico I've talked to

43:36

hundreds of victims families people who have

43:38

been disappeared and one

43:40

of them described it to me in Spanish

43:42

the most compelling reason for why these families

43:44

are haunted by the search for remains and

43:47

it's he said no tengo

43:49

nido nde yorar I don't

43:51

even have anywhere to cry you know

43:53

a gravestone is where

43:55

you go to mourn your loved one

43:57

is a physical anchor that tethers you

44:00

to their loss. It is

44:02

the embodiment of closure. He

44:04

recently told the full story in a new

44:06

book. One of the reasons I

44:08

wanted to do this book, and I wrote

44:11

it in the way that I did, and

44:13

I focused it on her case, is because

44:15

it is such a representative example of what

44:17

justice looks like. And maybe the only kind

44:19

of justice possible in Mexico. El

44:21

Hugo, the man who paid

44:23

for Miriam's murder, is now

44:26

behind bars, albeit for

44:28

a different crime. He

44:30

was charged with a different murder. Not for

44:32

Miriam's because they didn't have evidence for that,

44:34

but with a different murder that they were

44:36

able to obtain evidence for. And he's in

44:39

prison awaiting trial. Arzen's

44:42

book, Telling Miriam's Story, Fear

44:45

is Just a Word, is out

44:47

now. I'm Rhiannon Nieds. Next time,

44:52

a deep dive into the life of

44:55

a man bold enough to take on

44:57

three American intelligence agencies that had long

44:59

been thought untouchable, but at

45:01

what cost? Click

45:26

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