0:02

I don't know what it

0:04

will take for the justice

0:06

system to prioritize victims' concerns

0:08

over privilege defendants. But this

0:10

weekend though, and Turner prove

0:12

to the world how dangerous

0:15

it gets when the system

0:17

shows young defendants just how

0:19

much they can get away

0:21

with. My name is merely

0:23

matney. This is True Sunlight,

0:25

a podcast exposing crime and

0:27

corruption. Previously known as the

0:29

Murdoch Murders Podcast. Truth, Sunlight

0:31

is. A. Luna shirt production written

0:34

with journalists Liz Feral. Hello

0:53

and we are back After a

0:55

big exciting week visiting the beautiful

0:57

state of Arizona Arizona. Friends I

0:59

just want to save from the

1:01

bottom the my heart. Thank you!

1:03

I still have imposter syndrome when

1:05

it comes to the whole author

1:08

book space. I met author is

1:10

this weekend who dedicated several years

1:12

of their lives through their book

1:14

in their book alone. Admittedly, my

1:16

book was written in a rush

1:18

during some of the lowest mental

1:20

health moments of my life. And

1:23

it simply wouldn't exist without my

1:25

coauthor, Carolyn More. Next Hard work,

1:27

tenacity in relentless support a my

1:30

story during a time when the

1:32

trolls almost convinced me to give

1:34

up. Carolyn. Reminded me

1:36

over and over that my book was

1:39

important to inspire women to stand their

1:41

ground and find their voices like I

1:43

found mine. So my journey with a

1:46

lot different from the authors that I

1:48

spoke with this weekend, but the Lunar

1:50

Shark fans in the audience reminded me

1:52

that I belong to their. Thank.

1:55

you to not only the fans who

1:57

went to both panels are but also

1:59

stayed after to chat and get your

2:01

book signed. It was humbling and inspiring

2:03

to meet y'all, to hear your stories

2:05

and to hear why you listened to

2:08

True Sunlight. You, the fans,

2:10

have made me feel validated

2:12

and supported through every step

2:14

of this process. And get

2:16

this, you're making this introvert

2:19

actually look forward to public

2:21

appearances. For someone who

2:23

spent years essentially hiding from the

2:25

public, that is a big

2:27

deal. So thank you.

2:29

That said, Columbia, South Carolina, we

2:32

will be back to see you

2:34

next week. Please join

2:36

the South Carolina Victims Assistance

2:38

Network and I for the

2:41

Victims Matter Rally at 9 a.m.

2:44

March 21st at

2:46

the steps of the South Carolina State House

2:48

in Columbia. This event

2:51

is so timely and important. It

2:53

gives us the opportunity to show

2:55

those in power just how much

2:57

we care about changing the system

2:59

for the better. Especially

3:02

after Bowen Turner was arrested this weekend,

3:04

which we will talk about in a

3:06

minute. The Victims Matter

3:09

Rally is an opportunity to raise

3:11

our voices loud enough so lawmakers

3:13

can hear. Especially about the two

3:15

cases in particular that we have

3:18

been covering for two years. Stephen

3:21

Smith's case and the Bowen Turner case.

3:24

We need to show our lawmakers that

3:26

we're not going to be quiet about

3:28

either one of them. And

3:31

we simply will not accept them saying

3:33

that nothing can be done. We

3:36

need to show them that people

3:38

from all over the world want

3:40

Stephen's case solved. That Stephen's case

3:42

could show the world that things

3:44

are different now in South Carolina.

3:47

And no matter how much time

3:49

has passed, people like Sandy Smith

3:51

can still get justice. We

3:54

need to show up for Stephen, for Dallas,

3:57

for Chloe and for Sandy Smith

3:59

in reminder. the system that victims

4:01

can't and won't systems

4:06

to correct the mistakes that were

4:08

made in their investigations and to

4:10

fix the issues that have prevented

4:12

them from getting justice. And

4:15

we need to spread the word about this rally

4:17

on social media. Be sure

4:19

to tag your local TV stations and

4:21

newspapers so they will care enough to

4:24

cover it. So for those

4:26

of you all in FC asking us every

4:28

week what can be done in Stevens case,

4:30

please be there next Thursday. Make

4:33

the t-shirts, the signs, the

4:35

friendship bracelets. Make

4:37

it impossible for them to ignore

4:40

us and for them to

4:42

ignore the victims. Make

4:44

them feel compelled to do something instead

4:46

of ignoring the problem that has only

4:48

gotten worse in the last few years.

4:52

This event was created by attorney Sarah

4:54

Ford in 2022. Soon

4:57

after, Thrice accused rapist Bowen Turner

4:59

got a sweetheart deal due to

5:01

the actions of Judge Markley Dennis,

5:03

Prosecutor David Miller, and State Senator

5:06

Brad Hutto. Sarah Ford,

5:08

who wholeheartedly fought for the victims

5:10

in the Bowen Turner case, started

5:13

the annual rally as her work

5:15

made her realize that it was

5:18

necessary to show support for all

5:20

victims of crime in South Carolina,

5:22

because too often the justice system

5:25

forgets the victims. It

5:27

is wild to think about. Days

5:29

before the first ever Victims Matter

5:32

rally was held, Bowen Turner was

5:34

arrested for public disorderly conduct, a

5:36

violation of his parole conditions under

5:39

the Youthful Offenders Act. That

5:41

arrest ultimately led to Turner serving

5:44

over a year in prison before

5:46

he was released in November. And

5:49

guess what? This weekend, less than two

5:51

weeks before this year's Victims Matter rally,

5:54

where we will scream until our voices

5:56

shake about how important it is that

5:58

the system actually... listens

6:00

to victims and prioritizes their

6:03

concerns and public safety over

6:05

privileged defendants. Well this weekend,

6:08

Turner was arrested again. I

6:11

keep thinking about this. What

6:14

if Markley Dennis and David Miller

6:16

actually listened to the concerns of

6:18

the victims back in April 2022?

6:21

How did those

6:23

men feel now about their

6:25

decision in allowing a thrice-acused

6:27

rapist off easy despite the

6:29

cries from victims and the

6:31

public? How do they feel now

6:34

that once again, Bowen Turner has

6:36

proven to be a danger to

6:38

the public? How do they feel

6:40

knowing that they essentially taught this

6:42

young man that he can get

6:44

away with anything as long as

6:46

his family has power and privilege?

6:55

So let's talk about Bowen

6:57

Turner again. Like, again

6:59

again. Or really, if

7:01

we're being accurate, it's again

7:03

again again. Because predictably, Bowen

7:05

is back in the headlines

7:07

for yet another arrest. That's

7:10

right, just four months after he was

7:12

released from the South Carolina Department of

7:14

Corrections, where he was serving out part

7:17

of his suspended sentence because of a

7:19

previous arrest while out on probation, he's

7:22

back in jail. He lasted four

7:24

months, you guys, which I guess to be

7:26

fair is longer than the last time this

7:28

happened in 2022 when he held it together

7:32

for just about a month before

7:34

reoffending. To add insult

7:36

to injury, he was released

7:39

from SEDC last fall after

7:41

serving just 16 months of

7:43

his sweetheart deal of a

7:45

four-year suspended sentence. Worse, he

7:47

was released the day after

7:49

the two-year anniversary of Dallas

7:51

Stahler's death. Dallas

7:53

was one of at least three

7:56

teenagers in three separate counties who

7:58

reported being sexually assaulted. good bye

8:00

bye when When he was sixteen

8:02

and seventeen, Years old. And.

8:04

It's guys who has been on

8:06

our minds a lot since hearing

8:08

about this latest arrest. Dallas.

8:11

Morning bow and to get help. Shouldn't.

8:13

Be adults in his life and in

8:15

the justice system to do their jobs

8:18

and get this Siri troubled young man

8:20

the help he needed so that he

8:22

wouldn't continue. To hurt people. So.

8:24

That he could be rehabilitated and

8:26

leave a productive life. She.

8:29

Didn't just want justice for herself

8:31

and the other victims. She wanted

8:33

accountability. For his sake to.

8:36

Instead. Bolland was shown through

8:38

eight different door. One. That

8:41

allowed him to have some cognitive dissonance

8:43

and pretend that nothing happened, because instead

8:45

of being held to account for the

8:47

sexual assault charges against him. For.

8:50

Number one is a sexual assault charges came while

8:52

he was out on bond for a know their

8:54

sexual assault charge. Bolin. Was

8:56

allowed to plead guilty to a

8:58

plain old first degree assault and

9:00

battery charge. As. If he

9:03

had just got into a fight with

9:05

someone and not violated them in the

9:07

most traumatic of ways, He

9:09

was sentenced under a youthful Offender act,

9:11

giving him the chance of a lifetime

9:13

to. Make meaningful change in his

9:16

movies, It's. A sentence that his.

9:18

Parents essentially paid for. By

9:20

hiring a legislator lawyer who was able

9:22

to use his influence within the system.

9:25

To. Their benefit. They. Bought

9:27

this resolution. But. Appear to

9:29

have made the mistake of thinking that in

9:31

in of itself. With. The goal.

9:33

Meaning. Had. Bowen just abided by

9:35

the sentence. He wouldn't have had to serve

9:38

any time behind bars, nor would he have

9:40

had to register as a sex offender. His.

9:42

Parents bought him a future, but they did

9:44

not invest in him as a human being.

9:47

But. We'll. Get into that. Let's.

9:49

Talk about what happened. On. March

9:51

ninth: The South Carolina Highway Patrol charged

9:53

Bowen with a number of crimes after

9:56

he was in a vehicle crash in

9:58

which he luckily miss hitting another. driver

10:00

but flipped his own vehicle several times.

10:03

Here's Carl Stoller, the father of

10:05

Dallas Stoller, who is also an

10:07

Orangeburg County Sheriff's deputy, with what

10:09

Bowen was charged with. Bowen

10:12

Turner was arrested over the weekend

10:14

in Florence County for

10:17

DUI, public disorder

10:19

conduct, like

10:21

an open container of beer and wine,

10:23

seat belt violation, and then there was,

10:25

it was originally arrested as an undisclosed

10:27

charge that was pending and of course

10:30

that turned out to be a resisting arrest. Florence

10:33

County is about two hours

10:35

from Orangeburg County, where Bowen

10:37

lives, according to his sex

10:39

offender registry profile. Speaking of

10:41

that profile, according to the

10:43

online portal, it appears that

10:45

he first registered as a

10:47

sex offender just five days

10:49

before his latest arrest. Now,

10:51

Bowen was arrested on Saturday

10:54

night. Under normal circumstances, he

10:56

would have been released on

10:58

bond on Sunday, but because

11:00

of the circumstances involving the

11:02

violation of his parole, he was

11:04

held till Monday when the court had

11:07

a hearing. Carl Stoller,

11:09

along with South Carolina victims

11:11

assistance network attorney Sarah Ford,

11:13

who represents Bowen sexual assault

11:15

victims, both went up to

11:17

Florence on Monday to make

11:19

sure that the victims voices

11:21

were heard by the court.

11:24

Here is Sarah. Because

11:27

Bowen is on supervised release

11:29

on a charge in which

11:32

there are victims, victims are

11:34

notified and can and

11:36

are encouraged to attend subsequent bond hearings.

11:38

I did attend that bond hearing with

11:41

Mr. Carl Stoller and of course was

11:44

in contact with all the other victims

11:46

who were certainly concerned and wanted to

11:48

be involved in the process. At

11:51

the bond hearing, Mr. Turner

11:53

got a bond of $2500 on all of his new charges. We

11:57

Were then informed that there was a hold, there was a.

12:00

White com a department of corrections for

12:02

him to the he would not be

12:04

really even if you made that bind

12:06

because he had violation are alleged violation

12:08

of on the condition that is why

12:11

Away supervised release on and certainly that

12:13

was our lease for us. Knowing that

12:15

he will not be release that she

12:17

would have to go through the administration

12:19

right to determine whether he would be

12:22

continued on his why away pro war

12:24

if he would be sent back to

12:26

the pot and crash. Champs.

12:28

It was bit of a long day a

12:31

little bit of a confusing gay but thankfully

12:33

we get the answers that are from from

12:35

took said we were we were looking for

12:37

trying to track count and and our knowledge

12:40

Mr Turner is still on being held. On

12:42

on that on the whole from the department

12:44

crashed. Here is Carl on

12:47

how Monday went From his perspective. The

12:50

judge was. Pretty

12:52

darned older how it's troll charges could

12:54

be our bodies the how it goes.

12:56

Wanna charge him with those offenses? A

12:58

And you know the normal procedures of

13:00

a barn here in a match should

13:02

read him all his. Rights.

13:05

Information that cetera, And

13:07

on. The judge to from

13:09

testimony from beat them to advocate

13:12

first such know how it's job

13:14

in an office there and she

13:16

made him a statement to as

13:18

to what took place with the

13:20

about six era and to judge

13:22

listening to that of course and

13:25

then she bitch and therefore out

13:27

your circle a big the Vatican

13:29

attorney or. Has to be

13:31

an attorney. Was. Present in

13:33

a force myself and we were.

13:36

They are in reference to tarnish

13:38

previous charges which he was currently

13:40

out under a joke to sit

13:43

for the correction, then under. my

13:46

understanding is under supervision of probation

13:49

pro and he said he or

13:51

she has is question was whether

13:53

he hated know wow that was

13:55

relevant to the case or are

13:57

the in it basically is her

13:59

response to the judge was that

14:02

was to reinforce the information

14:04

that he had on the criminal history right

14:07

in front of him on Mr. Turner about

14:09

his tendencies to be a repeat offender obviously

14:12

and so the judge

14:14

listened to a couple more things

14:16

she had to say and at that point he

14:19

did allow Sarah to

14:22

afford to make us a statement

14:24

after he had set the bond when

14:27

he during the initially said

14:29

he wasn't gonna hear

14:31

anything on that because he didn't

14:33

really have any information as to

14:35

the violation of the intensive supervision

14:37

terms if you will and

14:40

that was

14:42

would have been a misdemeanor charge from

14:45

probation and parole and Department of Corrections

14:47

but they didn't have that warrant available

14:50

and he had not actually been served

14:52

with that warrant or that charging document

14:54

at that point so there was some

14:57

conversation he possibly would hear that three

14:59

o'clock that afternoon which

15:02

we were a little surprised but he nevertheless

15:04

Sarah gave a statement and I gave a

15:06

statement I don't know why he wanted us

15:09

to do that because at that point he

15:11

had already said he wasn't

15:13

hearing that until those charging documents had

15:15

been served on Mr. Turner but

15:18

he asked us to speak anyhow

15:20

so that's basically what happened at the

15:22

initial in the initial portion of the

15:24

bond hearing. Can we take

15:26

a moment to talk about this headache because it's

15:29

one we hear about a lot just

15:31

general confusion at a bond

15:33

hearing when someone reoffends. It's

15:36

almost like it's a disruption to the

15:38

process when it would seem to be

15:40

something that happens with some amount of

15:42

regularity given how much we talked about

15:44

recidivism meaning there needs to

15:46

be some solution to streamline this process

15:48

better because as Karl pointed out to

15:51

us Bowen almost walked out of the

15:53

jail on Monday because there was confusion

15:55

over the warrant all he would

15:57

have been required to pay with 250 of

16:00

his $2,500 bond and he'd be back in business. This

16:05

kind of confusion is something that deeply affects

16:07

victims, and not just victims by the way,

16:09

it also affects the people who've put their

16:11

necks on the line along the way, such

16:14

as witnesses to crimes. Calling

16:16

for justice and protecting victims'

16:18

rights in the courtroom isn't

16:21

just a moment, it's

16:23

not a one and done thing. It's

16:25

basically a game of whack-a-mole where you

16:28

always have to be poised and ready

16:30

to knock down the next challenge. So

16:33

I wanna take a second here to acknowledge something.

16:36

Carl and Sarah have shown up

16:39

for the victims, physically and

16:41

emotionally and intellectually. Every

16:44

time there's a new challenge in this

16:46

case, they show up. Every

16:48

time there's an opportunity to make the system

16:51

work better, they show up. Their

16:54

dedication isn't just helping bring sunlight to

16:56

the broken parts of the system. It's

16:58

showing us all how very necessary people

17:00

like them are in this. They

17:04

deserve so much praise and support for

17:06

what they're doing, and they

17:08

are nothing short of inspirational. We

17:11

talked to Sarah a little bit about

17:13

one of the challenges she's faced, how

17:15

the work she and S.C. Van are

17:17

doing, protecting victims' rights, is still seen

17:19

as a new thing in South Carolina,

17:21

even though the Victims Bill of Rights

17:23

has been around for around 30 years now.

17:26

I think it's one of those things that, it's

17:29

been around since the late 90s. I think

17:31

that the work of victims' rights

17:33

attorneys in the criminal court arena

17:35

is relatively new. So I

17:38

mean, I think, for me and lawyers

17:40

that I work with, it's not uncommon for us to

17:42

say, hi, we are the victim's lawyer.

17:44

We represent them. We wish to be heard

17:46

at the appropriate time, even to

17:48

the court, and having judges say, well, I've

17:50

never had a victim's lawyer. Involved.

17:54

Well, I like to say, just

17:56

because we've always been something, some way doesn't mean we've

17:58

gotta continue doing that. have these

18:00

rights and, you know, continuously I

18:03

see whether it's from judges or,

18:05

you know, some prosecutor's offices, members

18:08

of the JMSD, it's shocking that

18:10

victims would want to be represented.

18:13

It just, it makes sense to me. You

18:15

know, if everyone has rights, you want those

18:17

rights to be protected. The defendant has, you

18:20

know, the defense attorney, the state is

18:22

represented by the prosecutor. You know,

18:24

the prosecutor doesn't represent the victim.

18:27

And it's important for them to know that

18:30

they have these rights and that they can assert these

18:32

rights. And in fact, we can fight to

18:34

make sure that these rights are enforced. If

18:36

all people are looking at with the victim's rights is

18:38

that it's a check mark, like check. We did talk

18:41

to the victim, you know, check. You

18:43

know, we let them know about the bond

18:45

hearing, but we're not making it meaningful for

18:47

them. And what's the point?

18:49

It's useless. And we would certainly never

18:51

do that to a defendant. So why would

18:53

we ever, you know, the person who has

18:56

been hurt the most, who should be at

18:58

the center of this process, why

19:00

would we ever push them out and

19:03

not make them a welcomed addition

19:06

and inclusion in the system, in

19:09

the, you know, in the hearing

19:11

at the table? That's just never made

19:13

a whole lot of sense for me, even

19:16

as a prosecutor. It

19:18

just doesn't make sense. And

19:21

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Building victims at the table is

21:00

something that the good old boy

21:02

system was not built for. The

21:04

victims' voices are not only inconvenient

21:06

to defense attorneys. They force

21:08

law enforcement and prosecutors to have

21:10

to work harder to be more

21:12

thorough and diligent in building their

21:14

cases. Which brings us back

21:17

to Bowen. When we first brought

21:19

the Bowen Turner case to your attention in

21:21

2022, it was

21:23

to help bring sunlight to a

21:26

secret plea deal that Bowen's legislator

21:28

attorney, State Senator

21:30

Brad Huddo, had struck with the

21:32

prosecutor, David Miller. Miller

21:35

needed Huddo and his legislator friends

21:37

to support his ongoing bid to

21:39

become a circuit court judge. Miller

21:42

is still trying to become a judge, by

21:45

the way. Write your

21:47

legislators. Back in

21:49

2022, it was clear that Bowen

21:51

was a troubled teenager who desperately

21:54

needed at least one adult to

21:56

recognize that he needs serious help.

21:59

Because he does. did. He

22:01

needed serious help. He

22:04

stood accused of raping three teenage

22:07

girls in three different counties.

22:09

And while those teenage girls suffered, one

22:12

to the point of ending her own

22:14

life by a self-inflicted wound, the

22:16

certain circles of the Orangeburg

22:18

community seemed to rally around

22:20

Bowen. Grown adults were advocating

22:22

on his behalf, not advocating

22:24

for him to be rehabilitated,

22:27

but rather advocating for him

22:29

not to be held accountable

22:31

while they shame the girls

22:33

who accused him of rape.

22:35

Dallas Stoller, on the other

22:37

hand, knew that accountability would

22:39

offer Bowen some sort of

22:41

salvation. My wife

22:45

and I definitely wanted to respect my

22:48

daughter's wishes initially and when

22:51

everything originally happened and we supported

22:53

her in that and it was

22:55

her decision and she did advertise

22:57

that to the solicitor's office at

22:59

the time. And

23:01

that was even prior to when Sarah

23:04

Ford got involved as

23:06

her attorney from the SC

23:08

band. So that was

23:10

talked about early on with, but

23:13

you know now, and

23:16

you know everybody knows kind of the history

23:18

that we evolved and went down and then

23:21

of course Dallas passed away and

23:24

we were, you

23:26

know, we were still respecting her wishes

23:28

even after her death. But

23:31

of course, you know, Senator Hutto

23:33

was, Brad Hutto was his attorney

23:35

and Deputy Solicitor David

23:37

Miller, Second Judicial Circuit was the

23:39

prosecutor for the state and

23:42

somewhere along the line all that got

23:45

lost and of course

23:47

they chose to make it a

23:49

sense, which he's entitled

23:51

to obviously, but you know

23:54

nothing, nothing ever got entertained further

23:57

with saying, hey this is this

23:59

young man's offended at least three

24:01

times that we know of. He's

24:03

a young man at that point

24:06

in time, 16, 17 years old,

24:08

when he, I think he was 16, when he

24:11

assaulted my daughter. And

24:13

we thought that there was a legitimate

24:15

chance for rehabilitation if, or, you know,

24:17

to help him out, he's obviously sick

24:20

and, or, and is sick, and

24:23

would have a chance to change the

24:26

direction of his life in a,

24:28

in a positive manner. I still

24:30

feel a degree of sorrow

24:32

for him, believe it or not, and,

24:34

and of course his family as well,

24:36

that he's had all these chances to

24:39

do the right thing and, and

24:41

he just doesn't seem to want to

24:43

take advantage of them. And I

24:45

guess, you know, my pity can only go

24:47

so far when you, when you

24:50

don't take advantage of situations

24:52

that were handed to

24:54

you that I

24:56

dare say most people would not have gotten

24:59

in those situations and said nothing with them.

25:01

And here you are sitting back in jail

25:03

at this point in time. Here's

25:06

Sarah. I mean, it's terribly

25:08

sad. I mean, to look at

25:10

a young person, 21 years old,

25:12

standing there for, I can't

25:15

tell you how many body hearing, I feel like a

25:17

Senate for, for the intern and just

25:19

seeing that he doesn't get it and

25:21

maybe it's, you know, maybe everyone doesn't get,

25:23

I don't know, but I

25:25

don't know if he's not getting the

25:27

support. It clearly appears that he's not getting the support,

25:30

you know, of, of his support team, his

25:32

family. I, you know, I certainly can't speak

25:34

specifically to that, but it doesn't appear that

25:37

way. If

25:39

we have a person that continues

25:41

to ascend and

25:44

re-offend. And

25:47

I, you know, I just keep thinking back

25:49

to, to what Dallas wanted

25:51

to see happen, what Dallas dollar wanted to

25:54

see happen. And

25:57

even, you know, what Chloe Besh For

26:00

you this is not about she can

26:02

go in turn are under the the

26:04

jail for life That was not. With

26:07

any of the second sweat. And

26:10

yet here. We are still dealing with

26:13

bed. He'll. Put a wife

26:15

was not taken seriously by the people, he

26:17

should have taken it. Seriously. be here.

26:19

We are. You. Know

26:21

years later now. On with

26:23

Dallas, Go and and. Co.

26:27

Each grown up in still

26:29

dealing with that on. And.

26:32

There's no in which the resolution. Mean.

26:35

He would be provoked. Potentially for ten

26:37

to fourteen months to move back

26:39

on, while April back on community

26:42

supervision. I got on the streets

26:44

of South Carolina. That's

26:47

a scary thought. That. Too scary thought of

26:49

as he. He's are

26:51

changing he said adjusting because he hasn't

26:53

given so many chances. And

26:56

it is sad. It's incredibly sad to see.

27:01

And. It's incredibly sad because it

27:04

was foreseeable. And. Presentable, so

27:06

every time someone turn her name

27:08

comes back up, we get a

27:10

slew of people who want to

27:12

have the same old argument with

27:14

us about us supposedly not understanding

27:16

the rights of a defendant. Are.

27:18

Criticism of senator brought Hadow and

27:21

the lawyer legislators to some as

27:23

it were his cheek in usually

27:25

by defense attorneys as a saying

27:28

that we don't think defendants deserve

27:30

to be defended. That. We

27:32

want them all thrown in jail immediately

27:34

after their accused of committing a crime

27:36

and just have the key thrown away.

27:39

But that's not it. Not even close.

27:41

No. One can deny that Bowen

27:44

escaped initial prosecution on sex

27:46

assault charges because of who

27:48

his attorney was. Not.

27:50

Only was centers or has influenced

27:52

by the prosecutor he was able

27:54

to get judge Marcos done s

27:56

took three to a closed door.

27:58

please hearing Remember, our

28:01

legislators have immense influence over

28:03

the judges they elect. They

28:05

put them in office and they can remove

28:07

them from office. No, defense

28:10

attorneys will say all of this

28:12

was just good lawyering, but it

28:14

is not. Good lawyering

28:17

is holding the state accountable to

28:19

its investigation and making

28:21

them prove the allegations that are being made

28:23

against their clients. But we've

28:25

gotten so far away from that

28:27

definition in South Carolina that it's

28:29

basically allowed an entire economy to

28:32

form around legislator lawyers. We

28:34

asked Sarah for her thoughts on

28:36

the argument that criticism of the

28:38

system amounts to a criticism of

28:40

defense attorneys just doing their jobs.

28:44

I would argue that Bowen Turner had

28:46

multiple defense attorneys in that courtroom that day

28:48

that he pled on those charges

28:50

in August of 2022. You

28:54

know, there's a prosecutor, there's defense attorneys, there's

28:57

a judge. You know, and everybody

28:59

has a job to do. You know, a prosecutor

29:01

should be pursuing justice, you

29:04

know, doing everything they can to protect the

29:06

public, to help

29:08

victims, support victims. A

29:11

defense attorney, their job is to represent the

29:13

interests of their client, of the defendant. Those

29:16

are very different interests. In

29:18

this particular case, we had

29:20

a prosecutor, David Miller, who, you

29:22

know, designed this

29:25

incredible deal that I can't imagine

29:27

many other folks would ever receive.

29:29

So when you have, you know,

29:31

a prosecutor that's giving a

29:33

probationary sentence on someone who has been charged

29:36

multiple times in sexual assault, you

29:38

know, has disregarded bond conditions

29:40

over and over and over again without

29:43

ensuring any accountability for the offender. I

29:46

mean, at that point, you really need to

29:48

defense the train. I started my career as a public

29:50

defender. You know, I was a public defender for

29:52

a couple of years before I became

29:55

an assistant solicitor, and before I became

29:57

a victim's rights lawyer. I've always looked

29:59

at this as a looks at being a defense

30:01

attorney in this way. If

30:03

the state did everything they were supposed

30:05

to do, then the defense would

30:07

lose every time. The defense is supposed

30:10

to protect the rights of the defense

30:13

and that's making sure that law enforcement did everything

30:15

they were supposed to do. That

30:17

the prosecutor, you know, prosecuted

30:19

to the fullest extent that they complied

30:21

with everything. And so, you know,

30:24

I don't necessarily blame

30:26

defense attorneys for doing their job, that's

30:28

their job. Certainly the way

30:30

that they handle themselves in doing that job,

30:34

we certainly

30:36

can make judgments on that for sure. But

30:39

we absolutely need everybody at the

30:41

table, you know, prosecutors, defense

30:44

attorneys, judges, I think,

30:46

victims rights attorneys, making sure that victims are

30:49

represented. Because, I mean, we can see that

30:51

what happens in

30:54

situations where, you know, victims

30:56

aren't aware of what their rights are. They don't know

30:58

that they have the right to participate, they don't know

31:00

that they have the right to be heard

31:03

or to meet with prosecutors or

31:05

any of the rights that they have. So

31:08

everybody is needed, everybody is necessary.

31:10

Now, how people do their job,

31:12

you know, that's up

31:14

for discussion surely, but, you

31:16

know, certainly I don't blame anybody for

31:19

doing their job, if they're actually doing their job. And

31:21

I think what folks are getting at is that

31:24

there's a way that people can do their job

31:27

without slut shaming a

31:29

16 year old girl. You

31:31

know, I agree with that, I agree

31:34

with that. I think that, you know, defense

31:36

attorneys have a tough job and, but

31:38

there was nobody on the stand was at that

31:40

bond hearing. And I mean, this is, we're talking

31:42

years ago, but nobody was on the stand at

31:44

that bond hearing. This is just,

31:47

you know, at a bond hearing. And

31:51

it was disappointing, I think, but

31:54

I don't think, you know, if we're

31:56

looking to blame, obviously we

31:58

have to blame Bella Turner. But I think

32:00

there are other people that had a more serious hand

32:02

in how we got to where we are today in

32:06

this case. We

32:10

are going to continue to follow the

32:12

Bowen Turner story because it is a

32:15

cautionary tale on so many levels. From

32:17

the start, Bowen Turner's case reminded

32:20

us so much of Paul Murdock's

32:22

boat crash case, right down

32:24

to their mug shots, which looked nothing

32:27

like your typical mug shots. Instead

32:29

of wearing jail uniforms or some

32:31

sort of jail covering, both boys

32:34

were allowed to take pictures that

32:36

just as easily could have served

32:38

as their senior portraits in their

32:40

yearbooks. Then there were

32:42

the loose bond terms. Paul

32:44

wasn't even barred from drinking and

32:46

from all accounts, continued

32:48

to do so, even on boat right up

32:51

to his death in 2021. Bowen

32:54

repeatedly breached the boundaries of his

32:56

ankle monitor and no matter how

32:58

many times the victims brought this

33:01

to the attention of the prosecutor,

33:03

it went unchecked. According to

33:05

some of Paul's friends, despite

33:07

appearances and despite his

33:09

father's attempts to buy him out

33:11

of trouble, Paul was affected by

33:13

what happened to Mallory Beach because

33:15

of him. A source close to

33:17

Paul told us that even if

33:19

Paul wanted to face accountability for

33:21

his own actions, his parents would

33:23

have never allowed him to. That

33:25

has always stuck with us. And

33:28

we wonder the same thing about Bowen.

33:31

We know that at least one

33:33

of the breaches of his bond

33:36

before his ultimate sentencing was when

33:38

he visited Dallas's gravesite. Did

33:40

he do that because of guilt? Is

33:42

he continuing to break the law

33:44

because he wants to be punished?

33:47

These are questions worth asking because it

33:49

all goes back to the good old

33:52

boy system. It doesn't

33:54

serve anyone's best interests, not

33:56

even those who benefit from it. Like

34:06

we told you last week, as we

34:08

continue our deep dive into Stephen Smith's

34:10

case, we are also going to take

34:13

on a new case that is set

34:15

to go to retrial on May 13th

34:17

in Berkeley County which is just outside

34:19

of Charleston, South Carolina. Again,

34:21

it is a case that

34:24

needs a whole lot of sunshine on

34:26

it and one we think will be

34:28

of interest to you because of not

34:30

only how complex it is but how

34:32

familiar it is. Like

34:35

we said, there are so many elements

34:37

here that we saw in the Murdoch

34:39

case as well, including some of

34:41

the players. The first

34:43

trial was in 2018 and

34:45

it was originally covered by Court

34:48

TV. In fact, it

34:50

was the first trial that Court TV

34:52

covered after its relaunch. Court

34:55

TV called it a Southern murder mystery,

34:57

not knowing then that 2021 was going

34:59

to be like

35:01

hold my beer because I've got a

35:04

Southern murder mystery for you. But

35:07

this case holds its own when

35:09

it comes to intrigue and when

35:11

it comes to piecing together the

35:13

evidence to try and understand something

35:15

that is simply not meant for

35:17

us to understand. And

35:21

we'll be right back. Now

35:33

let's talk about the Michael Kaluchi

35:35

case. This case

35:37

starts on the evening of May 20th, 2015, shortly after

35:39

7 o'clock in the evening when

35:44

Michael made a frantic call to

35:46

911 from outside of a

35:49

storefront that he and his wife Sarah

35:51

Lynn rented in Somerville, which is a

35:53

town just outside of Charleston. The

35:56

store was called the Gold Standard.

36:00

up father Ivo Colucci was

36:02

a well-known jeweler in Charleston

36:04

and Michael attempted to follow in

36:07

Ivo's footsteps. The gold standard

36:09

was used for storage and also as

36:11

a place where the couple bought gold

36:13

for resale. The building itself

36:15

looks sort of rough. If you want to

36:17

look it up, it's at 2206 North

36:21

Main Street in Somerville, South

36:23

Carolina. The gold standard

36:25

wasn't the only business house there at

36:27

the time, according to testimony from their

36:29

landlord in 2018. There was

36:31

also a driving school. The

36:33

building featured two exterior entry bathrooms

36:36

at the front. According

36:38

to the landlord, the Colucci's didn't

36:40

have access to either restroom because

36:42

their warehouse had its own interior

36:44

bathroom. This is important

36:46

because on the night of Sarah Lynn's death,

36:49

the couple had been out and had been

36:51

drinking. The reason Michael says he

36:53

and Sarah Lynn stopped at the warehouse was so that

36:55

she could go to the bathroom. We

36:57

should also note that the warehouse was a short

36:59

distance from their home at the time. One

37:02

more thing before we play the 911 call.

37:04

Michael, who was 45 at the

37:06

time and Sarah Lynn, who was 38 years

37:09

old, were in Sarah Lynn's silver Toyota

37:11

Prius that night. Michael

37:13

told investigators that he remained in the

37:15

car while Sarah Lynn went to go

37:18

to the bathroom. The car

37:20

was about 25 feet or so

37:22

from where Sarah Lynn's body was found.

37:25

Now, Michael's defense attorney, Andy Savage,

37:27

mounted two defenses in Michael's first

37:30

trial. The first is that

37:32

Sarah Lynn was so depressed over the anniversary

37:34

of her second husband's death, Michael

37:36

was her third husband, that she took her

37:38

own life by wrapping a garden hose around

37:41

her neck. The second is

37:43

that she accidentally fell into the hose

37:45

and snagged herself by the neck when

37:47

she attempted to squeeze through a fence

37:49

on the side of the building so

37:51

that she could pee outside the building.

37:54

Obviously, the state's contention is that Michael

37:56

and Sarah Lynn got into a physical

37:58

fight at some point before death and

38:00

that Michael strangled her and then tried to

38:02

cover it up by grabbing a nearby garden

38:05

hose. We should note,

38:07

according to EMT testimony in 2018,

38:10

Sarah Lynn's body was cold to the

38:12

touch when they arrived shortly after this

38:15

call. The audio of this call

38:17

is really hard to understand at part so we're

38:19

going to break it into chunks and interpret it

38:21

as best we can for you as we go

38:23

along. Um

38:31

well, what happened?

38:45

It sounds like

38:47

he says, my wife. My

39:00

wife is not well. She

39:02

tried to kill herself. But then

39:04

he gives the wrong address of where

39:07

they're located and before telling the dispatcher

39:09

that he is attempting to give Sarah

39:11

Lynn CPR. Sarah Lynn's

39:13

body was found lying on the ground

39:15

to the side of the building. Her

39:18

feet were positioned toward the chain link

39:20

fence. On the concrete wall of the

39:22

building was a rack for a garden

39:24

hose with a length of hose still

39:27

wrapped loosely in it. Part

39:29

of the hose was moved around a post

39:31

at the top of the chain link fence.

39:34

A strand of her blonde hair was

39:36

found on a portion of that

39:38

hose. One end of

39:40

the hose was under her body. When

39:44

first responders arrived on scene, they

39:46

would also find Michael with a

39:48

cut and bloodied lip. His

39:51

explanation for it was that he got

39:53

the cut while giving CPR. What

39:56

happened? right

40:14

Uh THEN

40:43

The dispatcher asks what happened and

40:45

Michael says I think she tried

40:47

to kill herself. The dispatcher then

40:49

tries to confirm the address Michael gave him, 2209

40:51

North Main Street in Somerville.

40:55

Again, even though it's slightly off,

40:57

Michael confirms that this is in

40:59

fact the address and asks the

41:01

dispatcher to please hurry. The

41:03

dispatcher asks how old Sarah Lynn is and

41:06

Michael attempts to give him her age but

41:08

either can't remember how old she is offhand

41:10

or is too flustered to

41:12

say it. He starts to say the

41:14

first part of her age, 30, but

41:16

then gives the dispatcher the year she

41:18

was born instead, 1976, which

41:22

the dispatcher misinterprets as her

41:24

age. Michael again

41:26

tells the dispatcher to please hurry.

41:28

The dispatcher asks what happened to

41:31

Sarah Lynn and Michael stumbles over

41:33

his words and says I don't know.

41:36

Then the rest is too garbled to

41:38

understand. We're working on getting

41:40

a cleaner copy of this call by

41:42

the way. We're going to make the

41:44

whole call available online for premium subscribers

41:46

to LunaShark. If you think you're

41:48

able to understand what Michael's saying here or

41:50

in any other part, please let

41:53

us know on our Discord channel

41:55

or go to lunasharkmedia.com, click on

41:57

Contact Us and send us a

41:59

call. a message that way. After

42:02

Michael's garbled explanation about what happened

42:04

to Sarah Lynn, he again begs

42:06

the dispatcher, please. The dispatcher asks

42:08

for his name. Michael

42:10

says, Michael Colucci, and then

42:12

something else that's not discernible.

42:36

The dispatcher tells Michael to stay

42:38

with him. Michael says he's not going

42:40

to hang up. I

42:43

promise you. Then, it sounds

42:45

like he moans and says, come on Sarah,

42:47

come on baby, come on. Well,

42:51

he's trying to kill herself. Is

42:53

he? She's trying to find... Can we come

42:55

up, please? She was. She put

42:57

herself... I... I don't know.

43:02

She's trying to please. How is she? What? She's

43:05

here. She's on the internet. But

43:10

this dispatcher asks him what makes him

43:12

think that Sarah Lynn tried to kill

43:14

herself. It sounds

43:16

like Michael responds by saying, she's

43:18

turning purple. Come on, please.

43:21

Then he says, she put herself

43:24

around a hose or something. I

43:26

don't know. Then, it sounds like he

43:28

might have said she couldn't breathe. I thought

43:30

they were in the house. What was

43:32

her name? She's her name. How

43:35

was... What was that? She was...

43:37

She wanted to take you for a good reason.

43:39

You're getting a little bit of a... No, sir. Don't

43:42

show her. Come on,

43:44

baby. Come on, baby. Come on. before

44:00

saying, I have no idea. The

44:02

dispatcher responds by saying, is

44:04

it carbon monoxide? Is

44:07

that what she did? And Michael either

44:09

says no sir or no Sarah. And

44:12

then, come on baby, come on baby,

44:14

come on. The dispatcher

44:16

then tries to get the address

44:18

situation cleared up. What

44:22

is this? I'm the current doctor. What is it?

44:26

One, two, or five. Okay, that's not

44:28

the right address. I'm the

44:30

current doctor. Don't turn back off.

44:32

When? Someone don't turn back

44:34

on. I heard that. Where are

44:36

you going? I don't know. My

44:39

girl's on the hard side. Yay,

44:42

now. We're on the, they're on the way

44:44

sir. What's that in the

44:46

mirror? What? You don't,

44:48

you don't know what the place

44:50

is. Goal changer. Well,

44:54

we're breathing a little. But

44:57

they're on the way, okay? Are

44:59

you still on GPR? Yes sir.

45:02

Okay, Sarah, I'm on. Michael

45:04

repeats the wrong address, then says

45:07

my apologies and corrects it to

45:09

2206. The

45:12

dispatcher asks if it's across from the hotspot,

45:14

which is a gas station and convenience store.

45:17

Then Michael says, please help. The

45:20

dispatcher tells him that first responders are

45:22

on the way. For your reference, this

45:24

point is about three minutes into the 911 call. The

45:27

dispatcher asks for the name of the business.

45:30

Michael tells him and he repeats it. Upset,

45:33

Michael again tells the dispatcher

45:35

to quote, please send somebody

45:37

now. The dispatcher again tells

45:39

him they're on their way and asks if

45:41

Michael is still doing CPR, to which Michael

45:43

says he is. Then

45:46

there's sort of a wailing sound. It's not

45:48

clear if that's Michael crying. He

45:50

then yells, come on, breathe,

45:52

come on, breathe. Just

45:55

breathe in. What? Michael.

46:00

Oh, you got a hoes there all the

46:03

way, okay? I need to figure

46:05

out what she is. I'm

46:09

gonna have to hang herself with

46:11

a hoes. You okay? I'm

46:15

gonna have to go to

46:17

bed. I'm gonna have

46:19

to go to

46:21

bed. I'm gonna

46:24

have to go to bed. Oh,

46:26

there's no way. You're

46:28

lost. Okay,

46:30

Michael, did you cut her down?

46:34

No. Okay,

46:48

they're on the way, okay? Are

46:51

someone maybe off? What is wrong?

47:23

Michael replies, no, I didn't cut her down.

47:25

Then it sounds like he says something like,

47:28

she was standing by the door and she

47:30

tried to open it, but it's

47:33

hard to know for sure because he starts to stumble on

47:35

his words a bit. The dispatcher cuts

47:37

in again to say, okay, they're on their

47:39

way. Are you still doing CPR? Michael

47:42

yells out, yes, sir. Is

47:46

there anybody else there with you? Let's

47:48

go. Is

47:52

she on the ground right now? Who's there,

47:55

sir? Is she on the ground

47:57

when you found her? Yes, sir. Okay.

48:00

The dispatcher asks Michael

48:02

if there's anyone else there with

48:04

him and he says, no, sir.

48:07

The dispatcher asked him if Sarah Lynn

48:09

was on the ground when he found

48:11

her and he says, yes, sir. Then

48:15

four minutes and 48 seconds

48:17

into the call. The dispatcher

48:19

asked Michael if he hears

48:22

sirens. Okay.

48:24

You hear sirens. Okay.

48:26

Let him know where you are. Okay. Mm

48:46

mm. Sure.

48:52

Come on. Take me here. Yeah.

49:05

Come on, baby. I

49:08

found my job. Please. Sir, help. Michael

49:12

shouts out, Oh my God,

49:14

please sir. Help. Come

49:16

on, Sarah. Please baby louder

49:19

than before. Okay,

49:24

Michael. They're fair. Come

49:28

on. We've

49:30

never known geisonews

49:37

You see, ladies? Michael.

49:57

== Drowns etc. The

50:01

entire call was just under six and

50:03

a half minutes. Experts testified

50:05

that this was not enough

50:08

time for a body to go cold.

50:10

Now, we almost got through

50:12

a full episode without saying the name,

50:15

Ellic Murdock, but I just have to

50:17

say, the vibes are everywhere

50:20

in that call. In

50:22

fact, I can't hear the words,

50:24

please hurry, without hearing it in

50:26

Ellic's voice. But it's beyond

50:28

that, both Michael Kaluchi and Ellic

50:31

Murdock initially told stories that simply

50:33

did not match the evidence. Here

50:36

is David reading a paragraph

50:38

from the civil lawsuit filed

50:40

against Michael by Sarah's family.

50:43

In the days and weeks following

50:46

Sarah Lynn's death, Kaluchi's version of

50:48

the events surrounding Sarah Lynn's death

50:50

varied considerably. Kaluchi initially

50:52

informed Sarah Lynn's family that he

50:54

had not been drinking when Sarah

50:57

Lynn died, but then recanted this

50:59

and informed them that he had

51:01

been drinking fireball cinnamon whiskey.

51:04

Kaluchi also informed Sarah Lynn's family

51:06

that he never took his eyes

51:08

off of Sarah Lynn from the

51:10

time she exited his car to

51:12

the time he found her dead,

51:14

but then recanted this version of

51:16

events and informed them that Sarah

51:18

Lynn tripped and fell into the

51:20

garden hose causing her death.

51:24

She further informed Sarah Lynn's

51:26

family that he discovered Sarah

51:28

Lynn's lifeless body standing straight

51:30

up against the storage shed,

51:32

but then recanted this and

51:34

informed Sarah Lynn's mother that

51:36

he discovered Sarah Lynn's body

51:38

leaning forward at a 45

51:41

degree angle

51:43

from a fence. In

51:46

fact, according to reporting from the

51:48

Post and Courier, Michael Kaluchi stayed

51:50

with his wife's family in the weeks following

51:52

her death, but the relationship ended sometime

51:54

after because it became clear to them

51:57

that Michael's story was not a part

51:59

of the story. of Sarah's

52:01

death just didn't add up. Sources

52:04

told us that Alec Murdoch stayed with

52:06

Maggie's family in the weeks after the

52:08

murders, likely to keep

52:11

an eye on them and perhaps

52:13

to remind them that the sweet

52:15

son-in-law staying with them couldn't possibly

52:17

have killed their daughter. I

52:20

have to ask, was Michael doing the

52:22

same? Adding to the

52:24

family's suspicions, Michael didn't

52:26

bother holding a funeral for his

52:28

wife and he reportedly waited six

52:30

months just to pick up her

52:32

ashes. Like everything else in

52:35

this case, it is difficult to

52:37

know what those facts mean. Does

52:39

it point to Michael simply not

52:41

caring about Sarah Lynn? Had he

52:43

already moved on because he

52:46

knew who was responsible for her

52:48

death? Or was he a man

52:50

in the throes of grief behaving

52:52

strangely because of the trauma he

52:54

felt after his wife's death? Was

52:56

he angry with Sarah Lynn because of

52:58

how she died? Or again,

53:00

were these just acts of

53:03

a guilty man? The question

53:05

on a lot of people's minds, including

53:07

ours, is how could a man just

53:09

accept that in one moment his wife

53:12

was getting out of the car to

53:14

use the restroom at their business? While

53:17

he was just a few feet away, and then she

53:19

died via asphyxia by

53:23

neck compression. Unlike the

53:25

Murdoch case, the Colucci case includes

53:27

strong evidence of a marriage on

53:29

the verge of ending. Sarah

53:32

Lynn appears to have been a lot

53:34

more open about the stress that she

53:36

felt in her marriage than Maggie Murdoch

53:38

was. Text messages, police reports

53:40

and testimony, all of which we

53:42

will talk about in a later

53:44

episode, show a clear history of

53:47

an unhealthy relationship on its last

53:49

legs at the time of Sarah

53:51

Lynn's death. In fact,

53:53

Sarah Lynn's mother testified on the

53:55

day that her daughter died that

53:57

Sarah Lynn pulled her that

54:00

she had plans of leaving Michael

54:02

that upcoming weekend. After

54:05

Maggie and Paul were killed, we

54:07

were repeatedly told by people that

54:09

even though they believe Ellic did

54:11

it, that we would never see charges in

54:13

the case and that if

54:16

we did see charges, we would never

54:18

see a prosecution. Obviously,

54:20

that is not how things went down.

54:23

But people said this to us

54:25

because the Murdoch Martyr's case was

54:27

circumstantial. That word got thrown

54:30

around all of the time by

54:32

those in Ellic's corner. All

54:34

the state has is a circumstantial case.

54:37

Like we said back then, most

54:40

cases are circumstantial. Unless

54:43

someone directly witnesses a murder happening,

54:45

the case is going to be

54:47

one in which law enforcement and

54:50

prosecutors have to show a certain

54:52

collection of facts. When taken altogether

54:54

will show that a defendant is

54:57

guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. That

55:00

is what this case was and

55:02

still is. The first trial

55:04

ended in a mistrial with half of

55:07

the jury, including the foreperson,

55:09

believing that the state had not

55:11

done its job and

55:13

half of the jury believing that Michael

55:15

killed Sarah Lynn in the heat of

55:17

passion. In future

55:19

episodes, we are going to share

55:22

some pivotal moments with you from

55:24

the two-week trial in 2018. In

55:27

a lot of ways, this case is

55:29

like the Murdoch case, but the trial

55:31

was so different and we can't

55:33

wait to share that with you. It's

55:35

one of the most fascinating cases

55:38

and trials we've seen so

55:40

far, so there is a lot to

55:42

discuss. Starting with how

55:44

old this case is, Sarah Lynn

55:47

was killed almost nine years

55:49

ago. Michael was arrested for

55:51

her murder almost eight years

55:53

ago and he was tried

55:56

for her murder almost six years ago.

55:59

The entire time he has

56:01

been out on bond. Oh,

56:03

and one last thing about that.

56:05

Guess who set Michael's bond back in

56:07

2016? Judge

56:10

Markley Dennis. That

56:12

name should sound familiar because we

56:14

mentioned it earlier in this episode

56:16

when we talked about the Bowen-Turner case.

56:19

Judge Dennis is who approved

56:21

the secret surprise plea deal for

56:23

Bowen and who allowed it to

56:25

be struck behind closed doors. You

56:28

know, the sweetheart of a

56:31

plea deal that Bowen appears to

56:33

have violated at least two times

56:35

since then. We will talk

56:37

more about Michael's bond hearing in

56:39

a future episode, but that is

56:42

how small the good old boy world

56:44

is in South Carolina. That

56:46

is how tight these circles really

56:49

are. Stay

56:51

tuned, stay pesky, and

56:54

stay in the sunlight. Stay

56:58

in the sunlight. Stay in

57:00

the sunlight. Stay in the sunlight.

57:04

Stay in the sunlight. Stay

57:06

in the sunlight. True Sunlight is a

57:08

Luna Shark production created by me,

57:11

Nandi Matney, and co-hosted by journalist

57:13

Liz Farrell. Learn more about our

57:15

mission and membership at lunasharkmedia.com. Interruptions

57:19

provided by Luna and Joe Pesky.

57:21

Woof, woof.