0:01

It's Trump's Trials from Npr. I'm Scott. Death

0:03

Row. This

0:05

is a persecution see just. Innocent

0:10

until proven guilty in a court

0:12

of law. Tensions

0:14

in court were high. Today's adult film

0:16

star Stormy Daniels testified about her alleged

0:18

sexual encounter with Donald Trump in Two

0:21

Thousand and Six. Ten years later, Daniels

0:23

was paid one hundred thirty thousand dollars

0:25

in a hush money scheme that is

0:27

at the heart of this criminal case

0:29

we hear. From. Our reporter in the courtroom

0:31

about the dramatic testimony will also hear

0:33

a conversation with former Trump White House

0:35

Special Counsel Ty Cobb. He talks about

0:37

the significance of Trump possibly facing jail

0:39

time after Judge One machine give Trump

0:41

a stern warning not to buy a

0:44

late the gag order Again, stick around.

0:46

Will have both conversations after this break

0:48

and on Saturday. of course we will

0:50

put this all in perspective, will talk

0:52

about the week you tell you what

0:54

matters. There.

1:02

Are a lot of issues. On voters'

1:04

minds right now. Six big ones

1:06

could help decide the election guns,

1:09

reproductive rights, immigration, the economy, healthcare,

1:11

and the war's over seas. On

1:13

the Consider this podcast from Npr.

1:16

We will unpack the debates on

1:18

these issues and what's at stake.

1:21

You can listen to Npr. Consider

1:23

This. Wherever you get your podcasts

1:25

support for Npr in the following

1:28

message come from Carbonic On a

1:30

mission to make car buying more

1:32

convenient and affordable than ever before.

1:34

In minutes you can browse thousands

1:37

of options under twenty thousand dollars.

1:39

Visit carbona.com or download the app

1:41

today to get started. Listening.

1:46

To Trump's trials I'm scott death row and now

1:48

his want to summers. The. Woman epicenter

1:50

of the Hush Money scandal Stormy Daniels

1:52

took the stand today and Trump's

1:54

criminal trial in New York. It was

1:56

a contentious day of testimony, and here

1:59

is an. Bernstein was there and he joins

2:01

the sale from outside the courthouse injury. As we

2:03

mentioned, you are in court today. Tell us what

2:05

you saw and heard. There's a

2:07

lot of men has defying in this

2:10

trial like am I a publisher David

2:12

Pecker Daniels attorney David since talking about

2:14

buying and selling and suppressing stories by

2:16

women and then in came when of

2:19

a sentence for me Daniel passing within

2:21

feet of friends that neither of them

2:23

looked at each other and course then

2:25

it's highly unusual everyone looks at Donald

2:28

Trump from a power from except for

2:30

the witnesses in this trial and then

2:32

don't have historian the courtroom them one

2:34

has been isn't so much testimony about

2:37

Trump. And calling wanting to hush and

2:39

andrew what's it for me Daniels have

2:41

to say she testified she met Donald

2:43

Trump at a celebrity golf tournament in

2:45

two thousand and six where the adult

2:47

film company to work for was doing

2:50

a promotion to sit through the security

2:52

guard he invited her to dinner at

2:54

asked to come up to his hotel

2:56

suite first and Hershey testify they discuss

2:58

business but after she when she is

3:00

the restroom she says she found him

3:02

lying on the bed in his underwear

3:04

after which they had sex. She.

3:07

Says she didn't feel threatened by him

3:09

but she said there was a power

3:11

imbalance and then afterwards she said she

3:13

says a shame that stayed in touch

3:15

with because he dangle the possibility of

3:17

a role in the Celebrity Apprentice. There

3:19

was even a moment she testified when

3:21

she said trump and turn the google

3:23

be Other woman who receive the hush

3:25

money came in at an event in

3:27

L a lot with the reaction like

3:29

how to the defense react all of

3:31

us So com has denied any relationship

3:34

with Daniels and all day the atmosphere

3:36

with the defense. tried to keep any

3:38

discussion of sex from the jury

3:40

and repeatedly objective during her testimony

3:42

was extremely animated leading leaning over

3:44

frequently defeated his lawyers and then

3:46

after lunch they ask for a

3:48

mistrial comforting todd glands said her

3:51

testimony was close so prejudicial the

3:53

president trump and it's hard to

3:55

say that are issue in this

3:57

case there is no remedy be

3:59

compassion to unring this bell. The

4:02

prosecutor Susan Hoppinger said this was exactly

4:04

what Trump was trying to hide in

4:06

a payoff in 2016 in advance of

4:08

the election. The judge did

4:11

not grant the mistrial, though he agreed

4:13

there are things that were probably better

4:15

left unsaid. And Andrea, what about

4:17

the deal at the center of all of this, that hush

4:19

money deal? Danielle testified in

4:21

2016, by this time represented

4:24

by an agent. She decided to, if

4:26

she wanted to, as she said, document her story, but

4:28

no one would buy it. Then came

4:30

the Access Hollywood tape, and Michael Cohen and

4:33

her lawyers came to an agreement to buy

4:35

her silence. But then Cohen didn't

4:37

pay up. She grew nervous he would

4:39

delay until after the election and then never

4:41

pay her once Trump had what

4:43

he wanted, as she described it. Eventually

4:46

Cohen wired the money. She maintained her

4:48

silence until 2018 after the Wall Street

4:50

Journal published the story in chaos and

4:52

food. Andrea, in a few sentences, you

4:54

did mention it was tense from the beginning. How did

4:56

it go once the questioning began? The

4:59

process was pretty heated. Defense attorney

5:01

Susan Neckless got Daniel to agree

5:03

she hated Trump. But

5:05

the testimony of her relationship has been

5:07

backed up with details in this courtroom.

5:10

Though she's given multiple contradictory statements in

5:12

the past, all that came up. Outside

5:16

the courtroom, Trump said it was a very big

5:18

day. All this continues

5:20

Thursday. That's NPR's Andrea Bernstein.

5:23

Thank you. And now Juana Summers

5:26

speaking with former Trump White House Special Counsel

5:28

Ty Cobb. What do you think today was like

5:30

for him in court? I think it

5:32

was miserable, particularly having to listen

5:34

to the demeaning details that the

5:36

prosecution pursued, trying to get into

5:38

the nitty-gritty of the actual encounter,

5:41

as opposed to merely establishing the encounter, which

5:44

I think were the ground rules going in.

5:47

Do you care to venture a guess for

5:49

us on what the conversations between former President

5:51

Trump and his lawyers might have been after

5:53

Stormy Daniels' testimony today? Yes,

5:55

I think, as people I

5:58

think have accurately suggested, that...

6:00

Those conversations were Trump venting

6:03

angrily about what he'd heard and

6:05

why it was loud and urging

6:07

his lawyers to vehemently

6:09

object and asking how could this

6:12

possibly happen in America.

6:14

And to him, he typically plays the victim

6:16

and the enraged victim when things don't go

6:18

his way. And I'm sure there was a

6:20

lot of that going on at lunch. And

6:22

I think his lawyers tried

6:24

to turn that into as professional an

6:27

objection as they could. And

6:29

they did effectively put forth

6:31

a mistrial motion. The

6:34

judge appropriately rejected the motion.

6:36

I've hovered former President Trump's campaign for

6:38

a time. And so I know

6:40

that we've often seen Trump react in

6:42

situations like this one by going on

6:44

social media, attacking people like Stormy Daniels.

6:47

But this is different because Judge Marchand

6:49

has said that if the former president

6:51

violates this gag order again, he will

6:54

spend time in jail. Do you think that Trump

6:56

can stay quiet in this situation? I

6:59

don't personally, but we'll have to see. I think

7:01

it'll be very difficult for him. I don't have

7:03

any doubt that at some point between now and

7:06

the end of the trial, he

7:08

will violate the gag order again. And

7:10

depending on how egregious that violation is,

7:13

I don't have any doubt that the judge is prepared

7:15

to give him some time,

7:17

whether it's an hour, whether it's several hours,

7:19

whether it's overnight, remains to

7:22

be seen. But I don't think the judge will hesitate

7:24

to put Trump in the

7:26

lockup. I mean, I

7:28

know we use this word a lot

7:30

when it comes to conversations about this

7:32

trial, but this would be incredibly unprecedented.

7:34

What do you think that that could

7:36

look like for a former president? Not

7:38

to mention a presumptive Republican presidential nominee

7:41

if former President Trump did indeed see

7:43

jail time for continuing to violate that

7:45

gag order. Well, I think it's part of

7:48

the continuing tragedy that is Trump for America.

7:50

I think it would be

7:52

another sad milestone in the recent history

7:54

of the degradation of the

7:56

presidency and sad choices that the country

7:58

has. has made and is presented with

8:00

in terms of leadership these days. I

8:03

do want to ask you about one

8:05

of the big moments that happened in court

8:07

today when Stormy Daniels testified about her alleged

8:09

sexual encounter with former president Trump, the hush

8:11

money payments that then followed. What

8:14

did you make of her testimony and how the prosecution

8:16

is presenting their case? So

8:18

I think the prosecution overreached today. I

8:20

think the judge made it clear that

8:22

he agrees with that. I think a

8:24

lot of this detail probably did not

8:27

add much to the trial other than

8:29

to demean the former president and embarrass

8:31

him. I think the

8:33

rules of evidence are pretty

8:35

clear that that's not kosher. I think the

8:37

judge was uncomfortable with it as he indicated

8:39

in the dialogue during the mistrial motion, but

8:42

it doesn't rise to the level of a

8:44

mistrial. On the other

8:46

hand, in combination with a lot of

8:48

the other evidence of other acts and

8:51

salacious details that have come in through the

8:53

trial, it will add to the defense's, the

8:56

strength of the defense's appeal. But

8:58

whether that appeal is successful or

9:01

not, you know, will occur long,

9:03

long, long after the election, assuming

9:05

Trump is convicted and not have any impact

9:07

on the election and ultimately not

9:09

really have any impact on Trump. That was

9:12

former Trump White House attorney Ty Cobb.

9:14

Thank you. You bet. My pleasure. Nice to be with you,

9:16

Juan. Thanks

9:18

for listening to Trump's trials from NPR. Keep

9:20

an eye out for more episodes like this

9:22

whenever big news happens. And we'll

9:24

be back later this week with a regular show

9:26

on Saturday. I'm Scott Tetra. Moms

9:40

know the ups and downs of life. It's what

9:43

makes them great subjects for books. This

9:45

is one of the things that fiction can do, right?

9:47

It can give us a window into the battles

9:49

that each person is waging or facing,

9:51

but it doesn't mean that we condone

9:54

her actions. This week on NPR's Book

9:56

of the Day podcast, we are discussing

9:59

books, centering mothers. So call your

10:01

mom then tune into the book of the day

10:03

podcast from NPR Pro-palestinian

10:05

protests have popped up on college

10:07

campuses across the country But from

10:10

the eyes of students, what are we

10:12

missing from the outside? These protests are

10:14

painted as really violent when that couldn't

10:16

be further from the truth I'm Brittany loose

10:19

host of NPR's it's been a minute and I'm

10:21

inviting you to hear from student journalists Who see

10:23

what the rest of us cannot on? On

10:26

its been a minute from NPR Numbers

10:28

that explain the economy we love them

10:30

at the indicator from planet money and

10:32

on Fridays We discuss indicators in the

10:35

news like job numbers spending the cost

10:37

of food Sometimes all three so

10:39

my indicator is about why you might need

10:41

to bring home more bacon to afford your

10:43

eggs But oh, I'll be here all week

10:45

wrap up your week and listen to the

10:47

indicator podcast from NPR