0:32

the boyfriends and thank you for listening

0:34

to truth and justice you are

0:37

tuning in to the friday fault for season

0:39

twelve episode twenty four bonus

0:42

this week the spiderweb let us back to

0:44

a familiar characters the and the

0:46

may two thousand seven police interview

0:48

a bonus over the course of this

0:50

interview bow rehash of details of the night

0:52

of the murder as well gives us some

0:55

insight on a few critical players in the case

0:58

as always i'm joined by bob and janet

1:00

right to the short break we're

1:02

gonna dive into your listener questions

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all right that your body for joining

1:57

us are those of you that are on the you tube live

1:59

got a big crowded a youtube live even got doctor

2:01

shiloh in the house in the you tube like thanks

2:04

for joining us is speaking

2:06

of which before we get into anything

2:08

else we're going on janna in

2:10

for me right as we were hitting record

2:12

that she has a special message i'm

2:15

doctor silos partner in crime doctor

2:17

scott use an emailed you

2:19

about the just get henry is now

2:21

yeah i didn't know was coming

2:23

in it was i was i was so excited to get it

2:26

is , if you if you're listening to this and

2:28

it's been a second since he thought about that jessica

2:30

henry that he a video at that

2:32

just henry interview please feel

2:34

free to go back revisit

2:38

but i really loved his input on

2:40

input think he was actually listening to our follow

2:42

up as well not just the interview with jessica

2:44

but the fall of and some of the comments said you

2:46

all had an and our discussion about

2:48

it discussion he says the obsession with have

2:51

your sexuality which actually

2:53

is also very relevant for this week is

2:56

grossly misdirected and disturbing

2:58

completely unprofessional even within the context

3:00

of the time of the interview from a clinical perspective

3:03

it's more reflective on his own internalized

3:05

homophobia us and likely place

3:07

on the kinsey scale love

3:10

analysis can we scale

3:12

for those of you who may not know that's

3:14

that's sort of a range of in silence

3:16

me if i'm wrong although now i'm looking this email so

3:18

what have you say they think ah

3:21

it's it's it's a skill sets well he to scale

3:23

of sort of straight to

3:25

homosexual and the idea that

3:27

was established by a doctor kinsey who

3:30

, of ton of research showing that many people

3:33

fall somewhere in between it's not just all

3:35

one and all of the other and

3:37

so i think scott is suggesting that perhaps

3:40

he could have an interest or fascination and

3:42

all of it could be you

3:44

know

3:46

perhaps he has a little something going on there

3:48

and is uncomfortable about that and

3:50

sort of deflecting and putting it on other

3:52

people an honor of that's a miscarriage

3:54

relations i will hopefully

3:55

not by on he also says

3:57

i did not see what

3:58

and we talked about

3:59

the chat last week i did not see warmth

4:02

saw lot of smarmy and condescension

4:04

is detective already has a theory and is trying

4:06

to pound the puzzle pieces into a form that he is

4:08

it upon

4:09

and then finally what

4:12

is the pattern of the interview if he was trying

4:14

to throw or off for some reason i guess i could

4:16

understand is this just gross incompetence

4:19

because he serve all over the place and

4:21

is it doesn't seem to be tracking with the conversation

4:23

isn't conversation best maybe he's trying

4:26

to a keeper undertows but

4:28

ah not ah fan he was not was fan

4:31

of this interview however he is a fan of the podcast

4:34

and over wonderful listeners contributions he says yellow

4:36

rocking it

4:37

awesome what are you doctor scott for the

4:39

input love that i know we had a ton of people

4:42

it or more or that it that's it that's

4:44

it yeah that's effort from doctor that for this this

4:46

week loved it

4:48

it and i'd say the attic i'd said last

4:50

week that me like it seems like

4:53

this point at that point in the investigation

4:56

that mclear i in my

4:58

opinion i just somebody wrote in and said

5:01

i think that he's so focus on javier

5:03

because he's desperately trying

5:05

to clear him i don't get that

5:07

by get the bible these

5:09

try to come up with a scenario in his mind

5:12

where hobby air is guilty because hobby i

5:15

keep i'm guessing he caught on to some

5:17

of the the inconsistency

5:20

between what he says he's doing and the friends say they're doing

5:22

and stuff for whatever reason

5:25

a i think he thinks that have year is

5:27

loyalty in the way

5:30

he must have figured that out in his mind

5:32

is why must be something to do with the fact

5:34

that he's gay it's oh he keeps track because

5:36

i get he doctor scott to the perfectly

5:38

costly trying to wedge this

5:41

weird narrative into

5:44

into the context of like every element we heard again

5:46

this week so do do we think that maybe

5:49

the theory is that becky is gonna out him

5:51

that becky know them back is going to out him and that's

5:54

i mean maybe that's the detectives theory of why

5:56

he keeps asking everybody of hobbies

5:58

day they're or my doctor

6:00

scott said it's possible is some people i think

6:02

some jokingly someone some not so

6:05

jokingly the on

6:07

the fan page of messes a bed mention

6:09

michael me is like we're clear day why is he

6:11

legacy live in from a doctor scouts

6:13

is almost like he's maybe

6:15

somewhere on that scale and has some interest or

6:17

fascinating the i don't know but it's super weird

6:20

and like with that again this week we hear it again what

6:22

and this week's interview with bow are in both it

6:24

seemingly find that comical at the beginning when

6:26

you die

6:27

so on your hundred remote to have an insult

6:29

to to have an adult authority figure

6:32

like just

6:32

the

6:33

hit you with that and i felt like his laughter

6:35

was also just like soup or discomfort

6:38

like that the last thing he thought

6:40

he was going to be asked about and was like

6:42

oh this is a super weird way

6:45

this is going which is kind of how we all felt

6:46

listening i think

6:48

in infamy the strangest part

6:50

about it is

6:51

he says the to everyone

6:54

everyone says no he's not gay

6:56

the he still insists

6:58

it's a we i don't get it he just continues

7:01

like i think he's gay seems like even use

7:03

like a lot of people seemed think no i don't

7:06

yeah no wonder that no one has said

7:08

that every single human the

7:10

you're dumb as as has you have said

7:12

no his last like who are these people

7:15

be lots of people that so

7:17

i'm ranting for a doesn't make any

7:18

no i mean there is a great there

7:20

the great series of posts on the face okay

7:23

to the thread that everybody was commenting on that

7:25

was very much of that

7:27

had attitude like lot

7:29

know he could sort of hear us all collectively

7:32

right acting as i episode dropped and we were all

7:34

like oh no oh no

7:36

a lot of people having services

7:38

the hide in either way report

7:40

every single fucking interview that he does

7:43

not i don't know who this except for nick crumbs

7:45

who's miraculously drop out

7:47

of the police by a vote it's interesting that you brought that

7:49

up because i've also was his total toss

7:51

aside comment but aside

7:52

it was a really funny that he's like we

7:54

to i've i've talked to hundreds of people

7:57

i got even hint he uses hundred

7:59

in of people and i did wanted to

8:02

mention that ago i'm sorry has he

8:04

talked of as they talked to hundreds of people

8:06

he's talking to the stop the tens of people

8:08

living is what he meant to say about a tenth of in

8:10

of a feeble before we get into to question

8:12

zoc i really thought about this what was your kind of taken

8:15

bows interview it

8:17

you know there's a lot of spots and had a talk

8:19

through he just can't talk in circles where he's

8:22

he pretends you know i know is a big the

8:24

issue on the fan pages week where people are like all their

8:26

white supremacists they never really says

8:28

the white supremacists right as christian the

8:31

white supremacist leanings

8:33

but like doesn't faze you is likely

8:36

that really white supremacists these of kind of feels that

8:38

way they were gonna hear roberts races

8:41

it got a half black girlfriend so i don't know

8:43

doesn't seem very racist me i'm a little

8:45

he says that it i think for a both and says

8:48

it was on kind of like i've heard yeah i've

8:50

heard and was it was very rumor related

8:52

which you know in

8:55

this case the things we everything right now and everything's

8:57

remarry laden while en route before

8:59

you move on for that i want and i know i'm sure janna

9:01

you have questions about that but i the us to

9:03

address it up rotten i was going to be the first thing

9:05

i talked about just cause everybody is talking

9:07

about it yeah n

9:09

n and i even have people like emailing directly

9:12

like through like their contact form on the website

9:14

that are like why would we i don't

9:16

want to be a part of helping to get a white supremacists

9:19

out of prison like why are we doing this of is a wipe

9:21

lot of listen people here's the

9:23

thing they're not then

9:25

i'll fit a pretty confidently because

9:28

number one you have you've

9:30

got both say any gonna heard this and

9:32

a kind of seem that way would you had as a couple of white

9:34

kids who both had their heads it's

9:37

got the the

9:39

reality is if you take it is a

9:41

be some people there were some people have a pizza

9:43

didn't the disagreed with might kind of take on

9:45

a but i'll give you my take on it you

9:47

have him saying i heard basically there's this rumor

9:49

that they're white supremacists we owner was a sources

9:52

of that room where i'll give you three guesses who it is

9:54

i'm where it comes from

9:56

the

9:57

but i'm not so then i'd i just felt like i blew

10:00

by the guy took as a okay well let's look at their actions

10:02

we already know bo said that roberts girlfriend

10:04

was half black think if you understand what white supremacy

10:07

means it's like people

10:09

that lunatic like the white people are the perfect race

10:11

and anybody that's not why to beat and it

10:13

breaks review they should be exterminated and

10:15

certainly not appropriate it after

10:18

that girlfriend roberts wife now

10:20

lexi chimed in on the page is also

10:22

first generation mexican christians

10:25

wife is also not white the same

10:27

girl that he was dating at the time ah

10:29

made in vows i don't i don't i don't want

10:31

to speak as it's i so vast her arm because i

10:34

don't know what her ethnicity is but an old

10:36

not white in they have

10:38

a child together there still are still married

10:41

like said dot roberts why been times she's

10:43

like what i was you

10:45

breeze not racist or whites a permit room

10:47

premises he's married to me

10:49

and and before me was is what

10:51

was his mixed race girlfriend

10:54

they've never ends you talking

10:56

about how he or thing from robert robert

10:59

person's brand hobby air in

11:02

who's hispanic there's there's literally

11:04

no evidence

11:06

that either of these two guys aren't any way

11:08

white supremacists yeah even what he said

11:11

when he when he says christian the

11:13

christians white supremacist new like war does

11:15

he is he white supremacists really kind of acts like

11:18

it you know he like he thinks he's better than

11:20

other races me thinks he's better than other people

11:22

knew i could maybe just an asshole that doesn't mean

11:24

he is racist you know

11:26

i the you just think see

11:28

the off i'm like that's really more than being

11:31

a white supremacists right ear

11:33

and it's and it's some people drew

11:35

the point in iraq and i agree with that

11:37

like them based

11:40

on how they look assuming

11:42

that they're white supremacists there's

11:45

not a grilled different then the way

11:47

to look into a damien apple's looks in assuming

11:49

that he is a devil worshiper in a lot

11:51

but the thing is this is not this is not

11:53

like up a theme there's not like a bunch

11:56

of people saying that we've never heard this

11:58

from anyone else it just all

12:00

sudden it's like yeah i had heard from someone

12:03

or i've heard that they're white

12:05

supremacists or raises but

12:08

there there's and zero evidence supporting

12:10

that and like literally the way they've

12:12

lived their lives in the choices they made her

12:15

with her companions are can is

12:17

the exact opposite of being

12:20

a white supremacists we have

12:22

had some people's mind at ease so before

12:25

move on i i still wanna keep talking about something

12:27

else with this interview okay at the end

12:29

of it he says it numerous

12:31

times he repeats it he says hobby

12:33

knows javier knows

12:36

javier knows you need to talk to have

12:38

your hobby or knows i mean he just

12:41

the beating that death and the detective

12:43

it just doesn't seem to kiss

12:45

i didn't get me a heathen

12:47

uses heathen word i know their stuff their hasn't

12:49

told me and hasn't told you

12:52

that

12:52

direct quote that i wrote down because i thought it was interesting

12:55

the

12:56

well as we talk about that can

12:58

use clarified you know what prompted this interview

13:01

because it seems like this is the same day he interviews alex

13:03

right so is it the jessica henry interview

13:07

before that

13:08

in a be in one lump of that was

13:11

i don't know at a good question because

13:14

yeah i thought the alex on the same day so

13:16

i don't know they're just like it seems like

13:18

a case may be sits on the the is of the

13:20

case file sits on the that's a little on the like are we

13:22

should do some work in this case do some

13:24

follow ups are trying to think if there's anything in out

13:26

his interview that would have prompted them to

13:30

circle back to bow

13:32

i'm i'm i'm not really sure why

13:34

what prompted them to do this interview against

13:36

his it's weird that reinvent talked a hobby

13:39

a week ago and that and sas a coincidence

13:43

right curious about that for those

13:45

reasons

13:46

i think that people

13:49

i think it's a it's think it's a double whammy

13:51

of talking about white supremacy in

13:54

the same contacts us talking about being

13:56

violent being interested in molotov

13:58

cocktails flyer etc

14:00

so that definitely on those

14:03

two things the one two punch i think really

14:05

am really got peter concerned

14:07

said you were that part two

14:10

and that's and we're going to get into that some of that

14:12

stuff and we get into the other casing

14:15

and from and christian but that but that that part of it does

14:17

how i don't know about the molotov cocktails but the

14:20

but like their interest in like guns

14:23

or fire or whatever like that that has

14:25

legs it it it does they're in

14:27

their into that stuff there it's

14:30

it's kind of the seems like the culture of the family

14:32

and the people there around into

14:34

that stuff

14:35

the

14:36

i don't i don't think that that has anything

14:38

to do with the

14:40

races or white supremacists or anything

14:42

like that we are like there's there's

14:44

pictures they found off of their computers and

14:46

stuff of them with the unlike posing

14:49

with a shotgun are posing with a rifle

14:52

in in fire stuff like that so i

14:55

don't know all those details we haven't dug into

14:57

the case against them yeah but i but i know like

14:59

that part at least has some legs

15:02

so one part that i call and i want i want

15:04

to talk to you about this because i i don't know how i

15:06

feel and i don't either wonder how you guys interpreted

15:09

any interview you know we're talking about them being

15:12

the violent or physical towards women but he never

15:14

actually says that he said or for his

15:16

their physical towards women in

15:18

the the detective kind of s what that means

15:21

me like will they'll feel like knock em all the way

15:23

in the hallway but they're like the wrestle with girls

15:25

and stuff well i mean we

15:27

got a little bit of that when robert was talking about him

15:29

becky yeah i mean do we i

15:32

mean i feel like people are trying to use that as they

15:34

are you know violent towards women but

15:37

that what he's saying i don't i don't really know how i feel

15:39

about that

15:40

so with respect to their treatment

15:42

of women or what bow said

15:45

he knows for a fact i think we're his exact

15:47

words they have done or or behaved

15:50

around women by being somewhat violent

15:52

are being ruff the thing that concerns

15:54

me is that while he

15:56

doesn't say this say this know why

15:58

he knows that for a fact and i don't

16:00

know that that isn't something that hobby

16:02

also might have told him the problem is a sets

16:05

we see harvey telling so

16:07

many other things to so many other people

16:09

and constantly proving to

16:11

be the source point of the information and

16:15

i i just don't know for all i know

16:17

he could have said you know

16:20

i know for a fact that this happened were becky had

16:22

a blues because we've heard that story before

16:24

on a so i don't know where that's

16:27

i just don't know where that coming

16:29

from and i get concerned because

16:31

there's no you know he's

16:34

very careful to say he knows that for a fact

16:36

that does not in any way volunteer

16:38

why he knows that or anything like that

16:40

so i i i question that but

16:42

i will say by the way that everything we're talking

16:45

about i'm also reminds

16:47

me of conversations that have been had and

16:49

had toss about austin and so we need to treat

16:51

those things equally if we're very concerned because

16:53

of the there is weaker banal since we need be equally

16:55

as concerned ah with rubber

16:57

and christian you know or or

16:59

neither but just wanna make sure

17:02

we're being even handed about that also shiloh

17:04

asked what ,

17:06

austen javier and jacob go on to

17:08

do with their lives on

17:11

satellite believes javier is a

17:13

prison guard like a corrections

17:16

officer corrections austin when into

17:19

cybersecurity for a

17:21

minute and then maybe also does something

17:23

with, i'm not sure and

17:26

then i don't know but does anyone? i'm

17:29

not sure about jacob they that's accurate

17:31

with xavier and, and

17:34

also in cyber like you're ready to

17:36

but don't quote me on

17:38

in regards to like being even handed

17:41

about about the stuff that

17:43

about are sinners upset by robert christian like one

17:45

hundred percent agree and i was some of the conversation those having

17:47

on the fan page i'd as somebody who

17:49

very clearly like believe robert the christian or

17:52

the i was like a your based on it

17:54

took like what both said

17:57

the ah that he heard or his impressions or whatever

17:59

know like or obviously look it up there

18:01

in the there's miranda that they must be the

18:03

out as a get that's fair but that's the way that

18:05

your if that's the way you're going to put on what

18:08

both said about them

18:10

that i think we also need they'll use

18:12

the same litmus against

18:14

the stuff we've heard about austin

18:17

the

18:18

they didn't maverick never responded to me they

18:20

didn't didn't have that conversation but

18:23

it's also there there are some differences there too

18:25

and i'm not say in fact or what we

18:27

have is weird like kind of ambiguity

18:29

with what both say write anything we've heard

18:31

about like like i heard or white supremacists

18:34

in the christians kind of white supremacy

18:36

i think is what he said or this or

18:38

that in there in deserve ball top

18:40

cocktails at their like rob

18:43

with women that day but eight yards

18:46

yeah that in in in in on

18:48

the other said the sub we've heard about awesome every like very

18:50

specific like jessica henry telling this

18:52

is a very specific story that happened to

18:55

me that austin did to

18:57

me that in the end you

18:59

know alex in the current on what the into

19:01

the mall it's not like i just heard a like

19:03

know he came up to me bright and

19:06

said do you want me

19:08

to take care of her because you know what happened to the last

19:10

bit i didn't like i'm in

19:12

and so that and i'm only telling you that to say like

19:14

a if it seems like i'm i'm

19:17

i'm my interest as more part about

19:19

that than the other has nothing to do they

19:21

want robert christian once austin is just like

19:24

these are first hand real account of very specific

19:26

instances where things happen as opposed to this like

19:29

the broad i think they're this

19:31

because i heard this and i can't give you any examples

19:34

the supported our back it up the

19:36

still like opinion as a the back on my that i've

19:38

i've i've i haven't like dismissed it i

19:41

but i'm just it just doesn't quite old

19:43

the same weight as this this

19:45

happened like i've seen this happen with him

19:47

personally the very different then

19:50

i i just heard that is kind of thing that maybe

19:52

they do

19:55

yeah i think i mean again

19:57

at we haven't gone into the case the true for

20:00

if against rubber and christian which people have been

20:02

asked that i know chill had asked about that on the

20:04

follow up post on in

20:06

a when are we going to find out more about that i think you you

20:08

said in a recent followup that you were aiming

20:10

towards trying to maybe get into that soon

20:13

so , we'll hear more specific

20:15

points in relation to that stuff

20:17

once we get into them a little more deeply

20:21

fight but yes so let's

20:23

get into some other

20:25

listener stuff some would love

20:28

to hear what you think

20:30

about this out

20:32

that the idea of the same

20:33

the the fried lease and having some growing

20:36

happening as love weed and

20:39

what did you guys think about that opposite

20:42

there's my problem with they get

20:44

certainly interesting and

20:46

and would be a huge factor and victimology

20:49

the only trick is that we have no we

20:52

have no evidence to support it they

20:54

didn't find any marijuana plants at

20:56

the house

20:58

now

20:59

the be fair it was been

21:01

grown in the house you may not have

21:03

evidence of a because the house burned to the ground

21:05

in my but typically that would be done and like

21:07

a basement and there was no baseman in this

21:10

house you know it just seems like it would be easier

21:12

to grow outside though right express

21:14

it this time you know i mean the glider

21:16

as readily available as they are today right

21:19

for it seems to be easier to growth i didn't like you

21:21

said there's no evidence of that or if

21:23

someone were to go up there it seemed like they would

21:25

have to be a lot you know if they're not

21:28

going to go up there and murder three people for

21:30

a few plants and in my opinion yeah

21:33

though it would i all a good thing is if

21:35

they were would have had to have been like back in the desert

21:37

behind the house or something richard

21:40

it is one of those things just just know

21:42

just like the the

21:44

software robin christians i guess i'm they said some

21:46

or i'm not forgetting about it that

21:48

i can't i can't move words a novel

21:51

that's the added victimology they're growing pot

21:53

when i have no evidence that they grew by that

21:56

but a bit ill stuff suppose traffic

21:58

we here and we were both say

22:00

the out

22:01

we've heard of few people now say that that

22:04

he always had the pot mine

22:06

she was the one that always had at she was the

22:08

one that always bought it

22:11

the and we're the fact that she only worked two days week

22:14

that the ill a denny's the

22:17

and she had all the out the all these bills or that the

22:20

it is something to think about but i have not

22:22

seen any any

22:24

evidence that there was a grow actually

22:27

going on

22:28

i'm at

22:30

knowledge since we did sort

22:31

ah get into all of

22:34

the

22:35

right supremacy

22:35

the and violence and and

22:37

violence towards women those sorts of rumors

22:40

or conversation in both latest

22:42

interview and when i just acknowledge kate and

22:45

jennifer own acknowledged claire and

22:47

chandler and murray just a lot of

22:49

conversation about that i'm in particular

22:51

in the follow up so wanted to give you

22:53

shut up shut outs let you know that

22:56

hopefully we photo got into as much

22:58

as we can i'm sure we'll talk about it more in the future

23:00

in the case against auburn christian on

23:02

we are concerned about that related

23:04

to that sierra jesse megan

23:07

had a conversation in the follow up about

23:09

see about serious concern

23:12

here

23:12

we would feeling like see and really care for the

23:14

way both talked about women she

23:17

felt like he seemed to never say anything

23:19

good about any female that the girl that nixon

23:21

party were just a bunch of trashy girls

23:23

talking about his ex being stupid bitch or something

23:25

along those lines is to be very hateful

23:27

towards women and others the be wonder about the

23:29

veracity of the statements about

23:31

robert christian on that was

23:33

is something that you know she's says gonna

23:35

miss something but that was a feeling

23:38

that she kind of came away with was like you

23:40

know maybe he was being truthful you

23:42

said in the beginning of your episode and

23:45

the beginning of that the follow up on maybe use that you

23:47

know you did say i felt like he wasn't trying to

23:49

conceal things and then then being

23:51

truthful but i guess the thing that

23:53

i would add to that if if that's true like that

23:56

his truth that doesn't

23:58

necessarily known as the facts

23:59

actually when you start talking about behavior

24:02

of women and his perception of that stuff

24:05

i maintain and maybe doctor silo

24:07

chime in season the you to check right now which

24:09

he thought but i maintain that like that that

24:12

ice the seem to be very honest interview

24:14

to me but being honest

24:16

doesn't make you a good dude brightens alike

24:19

he could have been being on because i

24:21

i caught some of those vibes to that that

24:23

the i'm any time he was talking about a woman he

24:25

had some the shitty thing to say

24:27

about them them but that that

24:30

to me that doesn't make it any less truthful it's just

24:32

like he's a god kind of goes my point

24:34

that he's not trying to conceal anything the

24:37

just yeah sharing the fact

24:39

that maybe he's a bit of an asshole towards

24:41

women also he yeah

24:44

tell you there's a little bit of maybe try to match the claire's

24:46

energy to

24:48

i'm not that

24:50

the necessarily the out

24:52

of disrespectful to women or anything but

24:54

as canada macho guy type

24:56

of thing that is that going on the

24:58

way i felt like you i still feel like it was

25:01

very honest interview with that doesn't mean that

25:04

yeah he doesn't have any flaws in that that

25:06

certainly seem like a lot of me how old you thought

25:08

that no i agree i do think he was

25:11

he spoke very ill have a lot of women

25:13

in this conversation he he did kind of

25:15

speak well of becky in a few points he even came

25:17

to our defense a couple to absolutely saying

25:19

that yep that he believed yeah so

25:21

we had some of that

25:22

montana name and that much and you're absolutely

25:24

right he was one of the few people in

25:26

early interviews especially that i

25:29

think many of us felt like

25:31

he was

25:32

the

25:33

like sensitive and reflective and

25:36

for and seem to have hold her

25:38

in high esteem when we were not hearing that necessarily

25:40

from other people i'm

25:44

i'm just a couple questions about phone

25:46

phone calls paying call logs i

25:48

know we don't hear because we have eighty

25:50

other things were all juggling ah

25:53

have the call logs up at i'm sure someone in the chat

25:55

does chris points

25:57

out chris w with a k that success with

25:59

the case though says when approaching

26:01

the friedly monday am neither

26:03

him nor harvey knew what to expect

26:06

and the call records don't indicate hobby called

26:08

his dad and till two thirty pm

26:10

when senior called jr is that

26:13

weird you have a direct line to info

26:15

and you don't even make a call

26:17

that is that right and that again i'm not

26:20

questioning other than that i don't have the call log in front of

26:22

me did he not do

26:24

we now have an indication that he spoke to the

26:26

before i think there were some unknown

26:28

numbers of with the think might have been his dad

26:30

calm and but even still at

26:32

that point the da's investigator

26:34

probably hadn't been the senior

26:36

so you're his dad was a real we assumed his

26:39

dad connected a law enforcement in riverside county

26:41

that he has all the info then

26:43

he very well may not have had the info

26:45

at that point

26:47

the

26:48

though you're we don't know that he was a source of information

26:50

out on a point out there data shiloh the

26:52

time in the chat and said agree

26:54

make sense it's and i think that basically means that

26:57

i'm a psychologist com

26:59

and that i have everything for ah

27:02

the maybe that that was nothing to help

27:05

us and of but now she's i assume she means

27:07

she agrees when i was saying was far as like the veracity

27:09

the interview so for no thing

27:11

i pick up in his interview that how are they want to jump in real

27:14

quick is the fact that look clear

27:16

seems to really want to discredit nick

27:19

you've gotten model interviews now i'm in given

27:21

opinion why he may be trying to do

27:23

this while think about it he's he's trying

27:25

to discredit yeah i got the same by that a great

27:27

catch on your part the dublin multiple

27:29

times you here are making comments about know that

27:31

i didn't impress me i didn't budgets

27:33

donors whatever will end in

27:35

this interview he even says one nick get fired

27:38

yeah

27:39

the never so he is all i'm i'm

27:41

calling the fact that he

27:44

seems to be kind of private this discredit

27:46

this crupnick chrome that the back that

27:49

nick says that he went to the sheriff's department

27:51

and gave a the

27:54

statement to police that as miraculously

27:57

not in the file not the recording up a transcript

27:59

not a report on that he would be

28:01

dropped out and that he's trying to in

28:03

i found another arm as go up by friday

28:05

i posted by took a screenshot of a report

28:08

how from a later date

28:10

when their interviews done where

28:12

are the though i think was harvey er one of

28:14

the color bumper thera one of the cold case officers

28:17

at at the case years later there's

28:19

that mitt crumb was interviewed by police

28:22

few times in two thousand

28:24

and six again in two thousand and sell

28:27

plus the twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen interviews

28:29

while it's it's literally says that right

28:31

in the report though when nick says

28:34

that he was interviewed there is confirmation in the pilot

28:36

he was with those don't exit that's not

28:38

a good i don't think they've like i

28:40

don't think they liked what nick had to say

28:42

elite at some point in

28:44

the investigation they didn't like what what

28:46

what nick had to say i think or it's is a weird coincidence

28:49

but specially when nick tells us that no

28:52

he wasn't with javier that night than that

28:54

stories bullshit

28:56

the

28:56

the interested

28:57

why does the best way to avoid circulation

28:59

on that would have them for them to just include the information

29:01

the every so

29:04

right arm and i'm i'm

29:06

i'm sure you're gonna that our our not interrupting

29:08

a great centers and you're about to me

29:11

no into his or oh yeah

29:13

it's all you buddy

29:15

i didn't realize i said they that that of the

29:17

next holding what the i'll buy you have any questions

29:20

for people point out that that here both

29:22

as he was hanging out with a hobby or that night

29:24

i'm not

29:27

, a me i think there's there's

29:29

definitely general chat on not

29:31

just in the follow up post but on the facebook

29:33

page in general about the inconsistency

29:36

is with bow and what

29:38

he says he was doing and not doing i'm

29:40

there are people who feel

29:43

very strongly that said

29:45

bows right he didn't really get asked about

29:47

his actual do like exactly what

29:49

he was doing in that first interview that

29:51

was a little more off the cuff by the police when they didn't

29:54

know anything into not asked that

29:56

he

29:56

they'd yes he said first part of

29:58

what he was doing but

29:59

no one ever press them on like v full

30:02

activities of the night so

30:04

, think people my sense of people

30:06

on the podcast is that there's

30:08

is that of like some people

30:11

really believe like yes the heat that that is

30:13

he has fully alibis javier

30:15

that with a phone evidence just

30:17

means of years off the table and then some

30:19

people still feel like they they can't play pin that

30:21

down

30:23

though i want to be clear and in first point out that i

30:25

think hobby or doesn't need his alibi

30:27

because i personally i'm still and my somebody can

30:30

show me different i

30:32

think behaviors home phone records alibi

30:34

him from being at the see i mean when the fires

30:36

were so young when the murders happen mounting

30:39

as a way around that sides i'm not saying this to say

30:41

that all this means have years guilty but

30:43

it's it to me it means hobby or lying

30:47

and i see a or it appears

30:49

that it that he could be and in

30:51

the first interview they didn't go through gimme step by

30:53

step details about what happened

30:55

last night they didn't the in do that

30:58

it he doesn't say i wasn't with

31:00

javier that also correct he said

31:03

yeah i was hanging i think he said i hung out where where's

31:05

that with nick after work does

31:07

it mention being with javier but what

31:09

he does say twelve hours

31:11

after the murder of fifteen hours after

31:14

the murder what he says in that

31:16

interview was i was supposed

31:18

to hook up with a and

31:20

i should grab the quote but it it was as to

31:22

the extent of paraphrasing

31:25

i was supposed to meet

31:28

up with hobby year and go see becky

31:30

last night and for whatever reason that

31:32

didn't happen very clearly

31:35

the and that's the part that's important to me

31:37

that in that first interview fifteen

31:40

hours after it happened that's what

31:42

he did last night and he says i

31:44

was supposed to go see becky with javier

31:47

last night then we didn't

31:50

that's important to me because it does as

31:52

i've said before i think that if javier

31:55

were to have any kind of involvement in this i

31:57

think that i think that the extent of his

31:59

in that

31:59

listen to it is

32:00

that he knows what

32:03

happened i

32:04

don't think and that's just

32:06

in, and we're still in very much gathering

32:08

state and keep saying is, i'm not even like

32:10

a out to be throwing up there is if notice haven't me

32:12

lay out any theories because i'm not close to

32:15

having a theory but

32:17

as i'm just looking at what things we can eliminate

32:20

in my mind hobby or being at the scene

32:22

participating in this crime has eliminated

32:25

from me unless something new comes

32:27

i'm always open a new things but that's eliminated

32:30

from i don't think that's the case i

32:32

can't eliminate the fact that he

32:34

knows what happened that

32:36

he knows who did this and in there's

32:39

indications like the old mic also

32:41

says yeah in nyc said this before he

32:43

heard bows interview the out

32:45

the there was something that he may have a wrong and members go to

32:47

denny's or whatever whatever was he

32:49

remembered they were supposed to go see becky

32:51

with javier that night it

32:53

didn't happen oh

32:55

said the next morning i was supposed to go see

32:57

becky with have year that night

33:00

it didn't happen it

33:03

enamored of coupled with the phone records

33:05

it sure seems like hobby

33:08

or knew something was was going on there

33:10

but but i guess that's a long answer to a short

33:13

observation but yeah i in

33:16

this interview he says he was with hobby or that night

33:19

i'd i always into default back to

33:21

the original the want to happen closest and

33:24

it's it's certainly fair for people to say that he wasn't

33:26

as for details so he never said specifically

33:28

that hobby or wasn't there

33:31

but he almost never said at the beginning was

33:33

with hobby or and he did say that he was supposed

33:35

to connect with javier and see becky that

33:37

did happen in the original interview there

33:40

were eight months later and he says

33:42

at the beginning of the interview that oh yeah i just talked

33:44

to javier a week ago having

33:46

that heard from him and i'm not even saying that he's

33:48

i don't think and anyway he's trying to cover for

33:50

javier i think good young

33:53

as you like memories or malleable particularly

33:55

if you know bo has nothing to do with this crime

33:58

there's no your his dog as always the high to

34:00

really commit a whole lot to memory in

34:02

a be chatting with but with hobby or and eight

34:04

a good could be as simple as i have like oh yeah member

34:07

we were doing yeah we were hanging out smoking

34:09

weed that night the we

34:11

could be like i am make yeah i'm roka

34:13

there's plenty nights with a disease

34:15

go out of his way to sort of i

34:17

don't want to throw hobby under the bus but there but

34:19

he sees sense plenty of other things that

34:21

suggests that so

34:24

wouldn't necessarily be interested in

34:26

taking have years word about what happened

34:28

that night because he's implicate him

34:30

i'll do anything other ways

34:32

yeah i know and that's why i mean i think he's being honest

34:34

i don't i don't think he's like taking hobby

34:37

years word i think he just had a very

34:39

malleable memory of that night i

34:41

think i'd my impression

34:44

the of of what he was saying is that

34:46

edit use the term it was his truth

34:48

i think he believes that what happened that night

34:51

yeah i would agree that hat for sure

34:53

i might be and my eye and

34:55

listeners maybe they'll do i do i'm just

34:57

there's just been so much mix up

35:00

about what day things happened and

35:02

other things that we can't corroborate like

35:05

though saying he was on the phone with etti that same

35:07

day and both saying that you know he's i

35:09

got off at eight a he thought he got off at ten

35:11

but it's and that was right out that was like twelve

35:13

hours after he got off work but very

35:16

know roughly but he

35:18

was wrong about when about when off work and so i just

35:20

worry that i i feel like i

35:22

can't put any stock in it racking up as much stock

35:24

in it just because i'm like well maybe he's thinking

35:26

about saturday night maybe and have you said they were

35:28

nickel visitor center you know it's just that

35:30

feeling of like what are you hagan what are you

35:32

leave behind when there's so many and consistency

35:35

across the board

35:36

so i can i can to go back to like like i said that

35:39

it's something that i just can't eliminate

35:42

because of what's out there it it was as

35:44

simple as i was interview

35:47

it both first interview where he says

35:49

supposed to get hug it was becky it with hobby and go see

35:52

becky that night didn't happen that

35:54

was all it is i'd be like i could go either way

35:56

like i really have nothing here but

35:59

then you have

35:59

nick

36:01

as yeah we were supposed to go see

36:03

becky that night in in

36:06

hobby or didn't show up on me and go see then

36:08

you have the phone records were hobby or still

36:10

calling nick after

36:13

nine thirty after the on your

36:15

hour hour and a half or more after he

36:17

got off of work that night when he says he was

36:19

with them from eight o'clock on boys

36:22

so like there are there are contributing

36:24

factors the corroborate

36:27

that segment that's why i'm haunted

36:29

on that particular bit

36:32

of the interview because it seems

36:34

to be karate it is corroborated by what nick

36:36

says it would anger like a bolt

36:38

be wrong then it also seems to be corroborated

36:40

by the phone records oh

36:43

does say he was hanging out with nick dick does

36:45

say was hanging out with both and javier

36:47

still calling nick at nine forty

36:49

something or whenever it was too clearly

36:51

they're not together the you know me too i

36:53

mean said yes there

36:55

are inconsistent season after you to question

36:58

what both said what i'm doing with that

37:00

and with everything else is is gathering always information

37:02

on see and okay what does

37:05

mashup what does have the

37:08

a something there that can corroborate

37:10

and cement and there's a lot of these interviews

37:12

and a lot of these timeline of things they

37:14

were able to just like think of the guy said this happened

37:17

with the vote yelled for example bowser

37:19

as i got off work at ten thirty at night long leisure time

37:21

see night and you end up at eight o'clock at night that didn't happen

37:24

in i think the all all these different little things

37:26

that you can like for a while but and you have one like there's

37:28

was get together and goes with hobby or and see becky

37:31

oh yeah nick's said that too a

37:33

hobby or said you guys were together you didn't say we're together

37:35

and the phone records show you weren't together the

37:38

now that stays in it's not one of the things that

37:40

i'm for me that i'm like tossing out

37:42

at eleven were trying to do right as we're trying to filter

37:45

through all the nonsense and the bullshit

37:47

and get back down to like the basic facts

37:50

are we actually know and that's why a lot of listeners

37:52

are the in at

37:54

some point mobile our public doesn't go through

37:56

all of them that are making these timelines

37:59

and are great that guy caroline

38:02

can't remember your life am sorry can i

38:04

call a caroline that happy because i never know from

38:06

sources say people's last names that i think it's

38:08

cooked up yeah that's like off

38:10

nice i could be wrong

38:12

in in but she's made an incredible timeline

38:14

as is adding to the with a lot of people that are making hurdles

38:16

i'll i'll listener dot theresa is

38:19

working for phone records for me right now there will be having

38:21

coming up very soon the build

38:23

a timeless up together so that's what

38:25

i'm trying to get out of the but like everybody's doing

38:27

theories and everything that's great that's sweeping through things

38:30

but for me what i'm doing with

38:32

all these interviews and all these statements

38:34

as gathering all this evidence gathering

38:36

all this information putting

38:38

it together figuring out what

38:40

is unverified you'll ever goes into a category

38:43

as either probably false on

38:45

verifiable or verifiable

38:47

and taking the verifiable segments

38:50

it's very to put them together to

38:52

piece together what was actually going on

38:54

right now and that's what it like to me i keep seeing

38:56

the people that are like on board with this or whatever critically

38:59

important to me to keep getting

39:01

more layers to put

39:03

in that because we have so many gaps and

39:06

so many inconsistency east somewhere

39:08

we're getting to the truth and and caroline

39:10

and theresa and so many others listeners are

39:12

doing such a fantastic job of gathered that information

39:15

and i think you're all going to be shocked

39:17

the end of this when were able

39:19

to put us together like what we actually

39:22

figured out i think of the the

39:24

wax on wax on moment by the

39:26

way

39:27

they get lax on laps on by

39:28

are we understand what you're talking about i said off

39:30

of wax on wax off i don't understand

39:32

why i'm doing all this in at the

39:34

end of it i'm in iowa politico

39:37

be a mister miyagi moment for translates punches

39:39

and kicks

39:40

do you think any of the kids are going to involve

39:42

them going to denny's or on sunday nights

39:44

as i feel like we've with ice

39:46

ice or cilic we set aside aside and the nfl

39:48

the same way i just i wish i

39:51

were to me we wish we had early interviews from

39:53

next because i i believe he has a bus and

39:55

ten runs but it's just so hard when

39:57

the only time you ever hear that is

39:59

in twenty twenty two

40:02

it's so so that's for me

40:04

that is in the unverifiable

40:06

category for that probably

40:09

false we don't have proof that it didn't happen

40:12

we don't have proof that it did happen

40:15

and we've got some indications that maybe it didn't happen

40:17

so right now that i have the

40:20

scripted danny that night to see becky in

40:22

unverifiable neck comes back them though that the malleability

40:24

of memories to they are if there

40:27

was a bowl was right and what he

40:29

said which there was a plan

40:32

to get together with have a year in the see

40:34

becky that night the and

40:37

that the in that's really what happened as a hobby or

40:39

didn't show up they didn't see becky it

40:42

over the years if they have that part is

40:44

accurate your we're memory

40:46

people don't think this is true and be but it does

40:48

your brain will literally fill in gaps

40:51

with his gaps in the actual memory will

40:53

fill them in it could be as simple

40:55

as next though is is filled

40:57

in the gaps of the young put that together

40:59

with another time they want to denny's or something

41:02

or the fact that he knows becky wasn't at denny's

41:04

and it has created a very real memory for him

41:07

of them going to denny's even if they didn't

41:09

actually go to denny's but i'm not i'm not willing

41:11

to throw it out but i'm keeping it as

41:13

unverifiable events so as we

41:15

speak about verifiable and unverifiable

41:18

this isn't location this isn't anything

41:20

this is just a matter of an opinion right now this

41:23

is another time where we've heard austin

41:25

hates becky are

41:28

we putting us in the verifiable cause i feel

41:30

like this just starting to pile up

41:32

i think so ah but yeah now

41:34

here's what you think but i mean oh definitely not

41:36

yeah i mean i i'm just happy to i'm happy to agree

41:39

that i feel like it's pretty it's

41:41

been made pretty clear that that was a distant

41:43

cousin like

41:45

that's one hundred percent and in some of it's not just

41:47

opinion some of it's not just oh

41:49

i just feel i just got the feeling that

41:52

he hated her we're hearing from multiple people

41:54

that he said i fucking hate her by

41:56

you know so yeah when you have a multiple that's

41:59

akin

41:59

in see throughout the yeah i agree

42:02

with the as good point i remember

42:03

something that sarah mention on the follow up facebook

42:06

post which is she

42:08

says that sarah g of both

42:10

started to say that they were getting

42:12

into knits moms and

42:15

then leclaire interrupted him

42:17

would it be that they weren't in next truck

42:19

that monday the

42:22

i think i guess do we established in the

42:24

actual interview when someone says who the

42:26

red truck and that and someone actually call that allen

42:28

says that next so boom that

42:30

they were in next rent red truck or because

42:32

i didn't notice an interview based i was really interesting

42:36

it could be a bit unfortunate we

42:38

don't have the a your it and

42:41

you i haven't tried to reach out yeah maybe i'll try to see by

42:43

contract down the core line

42:45

the yuppies well in that to talk because

42:48

yeah i into the as we i didn't catch that yeah

42:50

but he started say that that he says so they sellers

42:52

any sort of say yeah we go

42:53

there about yeah sarah thought she heard

42:55

him say that they were getting into next mom's

42:59

simpli car but then

43:01

the clear interrupted

43:02

though

43:03

no but i don't know how that drives when would catch

43:05

the says who's little red truck is that so or who's

43:07

red truck is that

43:09

the we each other ever that could be that's

43:11

a very good catch i can't give a good answer for

43:13

right ninety to go back and listen to that apply

43:15

for yeah that is interesting

43:17

i'm okay ah just

43:19

, out because i think other people said it to

43:22

that nicole age is

43:24

one of many who is this like we're

43:26

like think they know it probably doesn't mean probably doesn't but

43:28

they're weirdly hung up on how many times

43:30

the bow talks about a photographic

43:32

murray and that they last on saturday

43:34

morning at eight eleven am eight eleven am i

43:36

think he he does that of keeps coming up over

43:38

and over again i'm not so much that

43:40

it means anything but people are just like i

43:42

was why is even less than six

43:44

million

43:45

i can see that but that was in the first interview right i

43:47

wasn't in this interview them

43:49

president

43:51

i'm yeah wasn't i both this most recent interview

43:53

like three times so maybe that's

43:55

just my brain is like blocking it out but it it came

43:58

it's come back up recently enough and

44:00

i thought oh gosh to see say it in the second

44:02

interview also

44:03

i don't remember hearing about how

44:05

many years when the first one i didn't think

44:08

the eating anything of that because i

44:11

can is what i pay as soon as he said that what i pictured

44:14

is they were walking out the door

44:16

he'd are they were like would readily

44:18

the i picture him looking at a digital alarm

44:21

clock

44:22

seeing it was eight eleven and going oh

44:24

shit i was personally by whatever your

44:26

job he says what sounded like both sorry

44:28

to say new sat sunday would weigh in on the chat

44:30

so

44:31

that's right i need is already outside go back

44:33

and listen to this of but that first time i heard it

44:36

is i i would totally do that especially there's

44:40

yeah they did the affective the

44:43

learning process in your brain like winners of the motion

44:45

attached to something a really cemented

44:47

in your mind so like i picture like if

44:50

i'm looking at a clock i see the time

44:52

and that for in that creates an emotional

44:54

response and mean like i'm late for something which

44:56

is i think that of the impression we got from that

44:59

i for sure we'll see that clock

45:01

like i can because i'm not remembering a time

45:04

i'm remembering something i saw arm

45:06

, and reset eight eleven to

45:09

me that seem like he was staring

45:11

but it is funny that he says that he has a photographic

45:13

memory that he can't remember shit ethicists

45:17

ethicists i see no residue here's if

45:19

we're going to hear this weekend as other one person starts

45:22

off with oh with remember everything

45:25

and than two minutes later minutes remembered nothing

45:27

every interview i swear every interview

45:29

we listen to at some point in the interview i

45:31

always think on both sides both

45:34

for important who should know better and for

45:36

but the list them for people who are being interviewed who wouldn't know

45:38

to see idea of like did you ever think

45:41

that this was gonna be public record

45:43

that this conversation that you have picked

45:46

apart by thousands of people yeah

45:48

it's legs it's wouldn't trade places

45:51

with anybody

45:53

i do want to point out i'm

45:55

jason white in the chad makes a good point the

45:58

is a in the first interview that

46:00

that both ass about smoking pot

46:03

them which he says could

46:05

be why he didn't mention being with javier

46:08

and the first interview get your he was that

46:10

that wasn't like no i don't smoke and i don't

46:12

know they smoke maybe they smoke and on of

46:14

they smoke those that is

46:16

so that the i've jason of i understand

46:18

your point directly is

46:21

that what if what he was doing with

46:23

happier with smoking pot the

46:25

com was asking about smoking pot and he was trying

46:27

to avoid admitting that he smoked pot

46:29

the maybe that's why he didn't mention him united

46:32

got fair either them as a that's what happened

46:34

but that certainly fair

46:35

i hear that am i now i just wanna

46:37

move into carl k matthew

46:39

d some other folks and facebook

46:42

just coming back to this whole idea that

46:44

you know we are doing what needs to be

46:46

done and we in and there is a lot of parsing

46:48

of little individual moments and all these interviews

46:51

but that very much people

46:53

are saying you know appreciate

46:56

it know we gotta do it fascinating their

46:58

stuff to be gleaned some it but just

47:00

aren't getting the feeling that any

47:02

of these people had anything to do with it

47:04

you know carl point cel sets jacob

47:06

and harvey the way that take a sort of you

47:09

know says hobbies the key like if the

47:11

two of them had something to do with the together

47:14

that behavior wouldn't make sense on

47:17

that that

47:19

people talk about the growing

47:21

out the outdoors and wondering if maybe

47:24

matthew wonders if maybe there is some connection

47:26

there or is not that's actually

47:28

matthew keeps pointing back to the money like

47:31

could people have no is it is

47:33

i'm on the friend group good money

47:35

could the the idea of the word

47:37

getting out that they're coming into some money be

47:39

a part of it but but that there the again this

47:42

is the sense from people have like boys

47:44

aren't could any of these guys actually be involved

47:47

legs not and they're not necessary the feeling

47:49

it as you now

47:51

yeah so this is why this visceral say about

47:53

that very well could beat that they're not involved

47:55

in all someone much as i think one of the family today

47:58

i saw somebody point out like the there

48:00

grinstead case from up and banner season one

48:02

where they were like they really frightening

48:06

yeah what they were like really honing in on

48:08

this a certain group of friends that they seemed

48:10

almost certain pain seem very

48:12

young very confident these people were involved

48:15

in an arrest as made in if somebody totally off the

48:17

radar and i certainly appreciate

48:19

that in that's i don't

48:22

want i don't want to call i know pain

48:24

i don't i'm not a that's a hearing wrong

48:26

side i want to say it was mistake but to me

48:29

something i am try to

48:31

avoid and always said to avoid is not

48:33

going down that path to me season

48:35

one and up and vanish they went too

48:38

far and as i remember saying to my wife

48:40

when i was listening to because i was

48:42

a listener of the podcast in real time as it was happening

48:45

they were like oh man he's really stretching

48:47

kind of almost accusing these people

48:49

and there's really no evidence of the

48:52

of doing this and we find out that he was wrong

48:54

and nothing to do those people that's yeah

48:57

i am that's that's

48:59

where i think the trouble comes in if we start saying

49:01

we're all based on this we

49:04

really that focusing only on

49:06

that group because we be must be right the

49:09

set know if that were gather information were

49:11

try the site if the if they can be cleared it

49:14

could be they're not involved in that's okay

49:16

because we've never said they were involved i'm

49:18

not insane i think they were involved i

49:20

cannot eliminate a scenario

49:23

we're some of them there could be some

49:25

involved i said i haven't given a theory

49:28

yet in as because i don't have a theory because

49:32

you're not wrong like like to say okay well

49:34

jacobs man and jake of phone records don't work

49:36

out so jag would mail with

49:38

is weird the way he interacts with javier in than

49:41

the a in and there's austin and he a

49:43

oh it's i don't know how any that can fit together

49:45

i know something's fishy like something stinks

49:48

here could be something completely

49:50

innocuous but i'm also

49:53

paying attention to not going to here's more this to like

49:55

one leone west gym you're one of his wage

49:57

employment the on was software post offense

49:59

behavior what are we gonna hear and started here javier

50:02

like all right afterwards he and

50:04

we heard like director struck in some i read the scars

50:06

are like that but as like that he moved

50:09

away we're going to start to your of the next couple of weeks

50:11

what have a was jacob an arson over the next was

50:13

a we can start get into some of that stuff to try

50:16

to figure out what can be eliminated

50:18

i'm going to tell you we're we're probably couple weeks from

50:21

wrap it up this friend group and moving on to a different

50:23

segment is it doesn't mean that were will never circle

50:25

back is we will absolutely

50:27

circle back

50:29

but a video morgan we're going to kind of wrap things up

50:31

say okay so you can be

50:33

cleared and who likable of what

50:36

what do we have that people should maybe stay

50:38

in the person of interest category why the moon the next

50:40

thing that's that's what we're trying to get to yeah

50:42

we're not trying to get to a point in the segment

50:44

and i know it's it's because we're twenty

50:46

five weeks in it seems like

50:49

we should be to the point where we're like narrowing

50:51

down a suspect with a pro again three

50:53

victims you dependence

50:56

several different groups of victimology

50:59

like the bridges this

51:01

case of gonna take three times as long

51:03

as any other case so like this

51:05

was a normal case was one victim in n

51:08

the all say like elmore griffin right so so

51:10

they she's got a very limited circle people around

51:12

her from season two we got one victim

51:14

we study her victimology the

51:16

was you connected you will there was that add

51:18

the city at angle of course and

51:21

then she was and kilometers love triangle with

51:23

ah leonard and angela then it

51:25

was a couple of other people's he dated the

51:28

we were able to get through this part very quickly before

51:30

remove the in this case it's just taking so don't what

51:32

i'm getting at is don't mistake what we're doing now

51:35

the trying to nail down who did this

51:38

it as a lot more to do with still victimology

51:41

still information gathering for

51:43

figuring out who can be a

51:45

lemonade id and who could

51:47

studies stay on our radar as we move all

51:49

right

51:50

and deeper and reemphasize that

51:52

when i talk about matthew and

51:54

carl and folks like that but specifically

51:56

matthew by hope i didn't miss kick mischaracterize what you said

51:58

you actually were saying

51:59

they could be involved because of the money so wanted a separate

52:02

those two things out

52:03

people like i said i know that there are people

52:05

who are saying let's move on the folks are not

52:07

saying that they're just kind of pondering through it

52:10

with everybody else as well and are going back

52:12

and forth the way i think we all we all

52:14

do jennifer

52:16

asks a couple things we haven't gotten to yet

52:18

but wanted to see if you've been about to make contact

52:21

or of than about to make contact or rule in

52:23

or out as true rumor

52:26

, unknown unknown

52:28

on whether there was ever any

52:30

evidence at all about this idea of marine

52:34

that becky dated that robert had mentioned

52:36

to that ever go anywhere are we ready

52:38

talk that wouldn't get a little more

52:40

yeah we're going to get a little more on that i don't know that we

52:42

ever really pin it down the great we've we still

52:45

got an enchanted in zach

52:47

the three of us have talked about this it's tricky kind of

52:49

navigating a lot of the stuff

52:51

because we need to move

52:53

on to another segment another group

52:56

there's all these like random things out

52:58

their rights we have like the interviews with

53:00

the sisters of whom are unaware that

53:02

fits in out to a narrative that i'm

53:04

trying to tell but we need to get it out there information

53:06

out there they a was we get a little

53:08

bit more and that there's also let's

53:10

not forget about joss any we talked about him

53:13

one time and m talked about him yet he was interviewed

53:15

by police in this phone records report the

53:17

he was the one we haven't

53:19

even discussed him but when

53:22

becky got off work at for in the morning

53:24

she's talking to him and he

53:26

was the last person she was talking to on the phone

53:28

on her way up the mountain the

53:31

day she was killed yeah so that definitely

53:33

be touchdown yeah so like so as

53:35

it and some of this i'm just is as me as

53:37

always are trying to be very transparent you guys are michael

53:39

so where do i it's

53:41

a it's a way regionalism loser these interviews of the

53:44

i have a very difficult time turning this

53:46

into a narrative story because

53:48

as i said it's like the spider web goes in every

53:51

direction so it's like why can't not make

53:53

window a wedge the

53:55

interview with i want you to hear it i want you to

53:57

know about it so

53:59

just you know those those things are all or

54:01

com fortune

54:02

okay great i'm also the same kind

54:04

of question about the gang members

54:07

in a rumor

54:09

any other rumors you feel the you've nailed

54:11

down this is jennifer at nail down as true

54:13

rumor and likely false are unknown

54:16

she wants to hear your gut on nes given your

54:18

experience the

54:21

i probably have anything to him about

54:23

yeah there's there's there's right now know

54:25

i've been the dumas be going to stop them if

54:27

kind of already already discussed

54:30

a really has a myriad i'm just

54:32

it's it's less about only because are so many things

54:34

that are going to live in the unverified category for

54:36

ever and ever that may come into play

54:39

if we when we get to a point where we're able to narrow

54:41

down an actual suspect them

54:43

but right now it's a lot l or what those things

54:45

are living in the bear on verifiable category

54:48

to really right now it's more about what can i

54:50

put into the verified category the

54:52

you ninety minutes less i can eliminate a lot of rumor

54:54

it for example the

54:57

stuff in the trunk nick

54:59

has a very clear memory of seeing

55:01

that stuff and javier strong it's also

55:04

the the memory of that

55:06

has changed a couple of times but in both

55:08

instances it was in javier strong then

55:10

you're just gets and she saw it in austin strong

55:14

can't say

55:15

well mix wrong and just as right it

55:18

was austin paint i can't say i

55:20

is i have not a new way to verify that i can't

55:22

say that both right they both as of in their trump or

55:24

they was in one shrunken and the other trunks alleges that

55:26

just ends up just living in unverifiable

55:30

that will circle back to if for some

55:32

reason we're really looking closely at

55:34

hobby or or often i guess

55:36

lawrence lessig we've been able to

55:39

track down though and reach out to

55:41

him for his thoughts and then

55:43

also just the general question lauren asks as

55:45

anyone else can i say that this case listening

55:47

to the podcast besides neck that you know of

55:51

haven't track down bow yet i'm hoping

55:53

to the ordinary

55:55

yeah i'm in i've gotten yeah

55:58

i've had people reach out that have

55:59

connections amezaga little bit about that unsettling

56:02

that have connections to the case

56:05

that don't want to be named

56:07

that are the one are gonna stay anonymous

56:09

certainly the convicted

56:12

family members of robert christian

56:14

are they're definitely listening to this

56:17

the

56:18

i don't i don't know who else as far as reached

56:20

out to me the one that that we've heard from that is like

56:23

directly reached out has been neck and

56:25

the chrome

56:26

that haven't or anybody else it like people that we've like

56:28

spoken about

56:29

so far

56:31

okay then the only thing that i have

56:33

that it is not related to this

56:35

case but thought we would end

56:37

with as a call to action is

56:40

that today's send email gore's birthday

56:43

and it would be lovely

56:45

if people reached out to her obviously

56:47

she won't care about it necessarily right away but

56:50

also the through reminder that you

56:52

can still participate in

56:54

looking out for sandy trying to

56:57

way in and called to account

56:59

the prison and some of

57:01

it's treatment there of there of

57:03

there there is a lot

57:05

of information about that on facebook page on

57:08

malaria the actually

57:10

wrote and has since already received

57:12

word back or response from the presents

57:15

and then valera even posted a template

57:17

for writing letters that's on

57:19

the facebook page so i just wanted

57:21

to give her a huge shout out for keeping up front

57:24

of mind and

57:25

encourage people on to

57:27

be a part of that as well

57:29

yeah adam and in valerian

57:31

and several other people have shared

57:34

letters like they've actually receive written letters

57:36

back from the prince of they are listening in

57:38

the big thing is that they know the people

57:40

are watching i think that's very important for

57:42

them say like if you miss treat

57:45

the prisoner or these prisoners there

57:47

is an army of people that are going to hold you accountable

57:49

for it and arm and i and i

57:51

was i appreciate tv cj like

57:53

actually having someone respond to the letter

57:55

yeah i've not heard anything so i was impressed

57:58

and glad to hear that something someone hurt

58:00

yeah to their their size of his letter about going to get the

58:02

us and his birthday about by the time this error it

58:05

will be two days ago the seventh was your birthday on

58:08

wednesday but i yeah i mean in

58:10

if you wanna send are nice letter or contact

58:12

medals for anybody on just the elders could always use

58:14

a letter to i'm you

58:16

know anybody if you get a chance go on our website

58:19

truth and justice pod dot com there's

58:21

contact information for everybody that we

58:23

the that we've worked with if

58:25

you're on jay pay you can cinema is super

58:27

easy through j pay didn't

58:30

even send him like an email

58:31

the day and and print out as a pdf

58:34

the just

58:35

remember not to send any cards because some

58:37

of us thought that of letter shaped hard

58:39

was maybe gonna be okay if it was thin an awesome

58:41

someone just received it back

58:44

after like three months yeah

58:46

i'm i'm like oh i'm an idiot i totally

58:48

forgot you can't send parts even if they're in the same

58:51

shape as a letter

58:52

like i age as on me yup

58:54

yup just just letters j pays grade

58:56

and even like jamie snow from season seven

58:58

like they actually have tablets where he can like email

59:01

you back and forth you can send him a message to dig in

59:03

message you right back sometimes too

59:05

through connect network i think is who

59:07

we are we talked jamie three

59:09

so yeah the eyes letters

59:11

to the present letters to the inmates particularly

59:14

sandy who's gonna got a rough time and

59:16

it's it's her birthday as

59:19

do any of that stuff and

59:21

without without i think we're the about

59:23

a wrap things up i'm good i'm just

59:26

of the i'm i'm kind of scrambling because i'm in the morning

59:28

i'm leaving to go to kansas city for the generation

59:30

y ten year anniversary party

59:33

i'm super excited about that my damning as years as a that

59:35

will be over with the been

59:37

doing that was the got obsessed as of the end of the month

59:39

yeah i won't let you guys know to that the episode on sunday

59:42

i hope i hope that i found

59:45

the sweet spot for

59:47

the best of both worlds

59:49

for this episode the episodes

59:52

going to be like an hour and twenty minutes long

59:54

what i did

59:56

it i have about twenty twenty five

59:58

minutes of of the narrative episode

1:00:01

where

1:00:02

i'm breaking down police reports

1:00:04

and breaking down the interview

1:00:06

that were going to hear then

1:00:09

playing the interview at the end of it

1:00:11

so for those of you the just wanna hear me yet

1:00:13

hit the highlights it don't wanna listen

1:00:15

to it you can turn it off after

1:00:18

about twenty minutes you'll hear all the basic information

1:00:20

for those of you the wanna hear my breakdown

1:00:23

the and wanna hear the actual interview

1:00:25

you'll have that rate if you don't want to hear

1:00:27

me talk and only one here the interviews fast forward

1:00:29

to that i don't fix it was a a lot of options

1:00:33

and this week's episode is going to be the final chapter

1:00:35

four now austin alba

1:00:37

ah he was contact with again i

1:00:39

mentioned you guys are there was a interview there's me to play

1:00:41

in the background their whole i got a

1:00:43

by the way of had listeners reach out that are like

1:00:45

sound engineers and audio engineers and like a

1:00:48

try to clean this up they offer

1:00:50

to do and i finally after talking to my

1:00:52

attorney it falls under what

1:00:54

is called the incidental inclusion

1:00:57

the exception to the copyright laws meetings

1:01:00

because it just happened to be playing in

1:01:02

the background it's okay so i'm

1:01:04

playing the interview it's

1:01:06

kind of the is kind of a top want to hear because

1:01:09

it's not only as their music for

1:01:11

sitting on a doc then there are like

1:01:13

boat motors tootling by

1:01:15

in different things so it it can be of reform

1:01:17

to here unfortunately i know especially

1:01:19

lot of our our but i have heard you

1:01:22

and i'll try this are doing this people

1:01:24

from different countries that may be different

1:01:27

accents and dialects of acid like a post the

1:01:29

transcripts before the episodes of they can read

1:01:31

along yeah arm and price or do it it's

1:01:33

tricky because i can't schedule that

1:01:36

though i'd i'd i don't want to like put the

1:01:38

air b on the track about on saturday in everybody

1:01:40

start talking about it on saturday on the page

1:01:43

when the opposite isn't there till sunday but i'm gonna try to were

1:01:45

getting goes up much quicker the

1:01:48

but i'm forty that's when there is no transcript was

1:01:50

not that i have my file for this interview so

1:01:52

you're gonna have to either take my word

1:01:55

for it on the breakdown or listen to it

1:01:57

yourself but a lot of options for the sunday

1:01:59

i think it's super super interesting interview

1:02:01

in were that's i will thank

1:02:04

all of you on now you to chats

1:02:06

participating or yes there's a vote in that

1:02:09

janet wonderful job

1:02:11

the national minimum limit is a are

1:02:13

you doing is such an honors

1:02:15

of high just recently here now

1:02:24

the law

1:02:39

then be a video production if is distributed

1:02:41

my phone and it coming

1:02:45

what about

1:02:50

oliver and logos manners were created a

1:02:52

group of rizwan [unk] buy

1:02:55

, take an [unk] [unk]

1:02:57

ross have created have com for

1:03:00

designing creating managing and maintaining managing west

1:03:02

truth and justice pod not

1:03:04

com you can not all you disgusting

1:03:07

and area and a big disgusting you to our transcription

1:03:11

must be kathy [unk] cave with

1:03:13

you on the next viola eric cantor

1:03:15

daniel roar the or courtney

1:03:18

wimberley and melissa there's

1:03:20

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1:04:58

barbra i'm zack weaver and

1:05:00

i'm janet

1:05:05

all