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today. That's zocdoc.com/ 20k.

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zocdoc.com/20k. You're

1:08

listening to 20,000 Hertz.

1:12

I'm Dallas Taylor. Recently,

1:16

our producer Laila Battson set up a

1:18

recording session with me. Hi,

1:20

Dallas. Hi, Laila. How are

1:22

you? I'm doing great. We're

1:25

going to make a podcast about nursery rhymes.

1:28

That sounds lovely. So the

1:30

reason I wanted to make this is because I've

1:32

just had a tiny baby and I have

1:34

found my world completely taken

1:37

over by nursery rhymes, songs,

1:39

child appropriate music. And

1:41

I thought it'd be good to

1:43

chat to you about it because you are more than the

1:47

smooth voice of

1:49

20k. I'm more than

1:51

the smooth voice of 20k. I

1:53

also have three little ones and I have

1:55

also been taken over by

1:57

many nursery rhymes for over a day.

2:00

Just tell

2:03

me a little bit about how your world changed

2:06

when you first child arrived. Oh

2:09

my goodness, Layla, that's a big question. I

2:11

know, I like to start with the big ones. Well

2:15

first of all, even asking that

2:17

question, I had a full body wave

2:20

of like tingles just from

2:22

that being the most profound moment

2:24

of my life. It's

2:26

hard to put into words. And

2:29

I remember when I saw my daughter's

2:31

face for the first time going,

2:33

I don't recognize this face,

2:35

but I love this face more

2:37

than anything in the world.

2:41

And the new dimension of

2:44

my wife turning from

2:46

my partner, my best

2:48

friend, to now she's that

2:50

plus a mother and seeing her

2:52

change in that way is just

2:55

absolutely beautiful and profound. Well

2:57

I'm glad to hear you say that because as a

2:59

mother I don't feel very beautiful or profound.

3:02

I feel like I'm barely holding it together. And

3:05

you are not alone in that feeling. Any

3:12

parent will tell you that having a child

3:14

turns your world upside down. What

3:17

do you mean to do with this tiny vulnerable

3:19

bundle of tears? Early

3:21

on the crying is so delicate. Of

3:24

course it gets louder for sure. But

3:26

I remember there's some sort of link between

3:29

my brain and this crying

3:31

that feels primal and deep.

3:34

And I remember instinctively

3:37

wanting to soothe. So

3:42

how do you soothe a crying baby? For

3:45

many people throughout human history, the answer

3:47

has been simple. You sing to

3:49

it. Certainly

3:52

when a child is crying, Singing

3:55

and that stimulus of

3:57

a calm, reassuring tonality..

4:00

Even if they don't understand the specifics

4:02

of it, I feel is something that's

4:04

deeply human. Whether it's day one or

4:06

that eighty of year, it's just something

4:08

that resonates with our brain. For

4:11

me up until that point I would

4:13

say that I was really self conscious

4:15

about my singing in. My wife has

4:17

an absolutely stunning voice and she was

4:20

and opera major. But I

4:22

do remember when we had our

4:24

first that self consciousness went away

4:26

because I was like near don't

4:28

care about my self consciousness, I

4:30

care about her and what she

4:32

needs. And so singing and speaking

4:34

and soothing sell very instinctual very

4:36

quickly. Something about my daughter laying

4:38

on my chest and feeling the

4:40

movement of my body and the

4:43

vibrations I just felt like I'm

4:45

supposed to the did he respond

4:47

t from an early states I

4:49

think so early on I could

4:51

tell. That it was something that really

4:53

seemed the two of us together. Singing.

4:59

Might come naturally. that was I mean he

5:01

explore is what we sing and why. because

5:04

when you and exhausted current trying to saying.

5:06

He'll. Praying involved in some strange

5:08

done since. In my delirium and

5:11

one day rocking my first daughter to sleep,

5:13

I made up a ridiculous song that just

5:15

came to the top of my head. I

5:17

was kind of embarrassed for my wife to hear

5:19

it because I just made an ads and

5:21

issues like that will never catch on. It's

5:23

too hard it's to up and down And

5:25

so I'm very proud of the fact that I

5:27

was able to make a song that they

5:29

still can sing to this day. all of

5:31

them using. And I suspect it

5:33

will have to do that. Now are the

5:36

S E O S It basically goes of

5:38

such as as as do it forgive me.

5:41

Oh the Moon in

5:44

the Sky high have

5:46

been night oh help

5:49

name redacted due to

5:52

C O the Mood

5:54

in the Sky high

5:57

have been and nine.

6:00

Oh help, name redacted,

6:02

go to sleep. Oh

6:09

that's beautiful. Oh. As you can see

6:11

I name redacted. I want them to be their own

6:13

people. Oh that's not the name of your child. No,

6:15

that's not, name redacted Taylor. I

6:20

feel like in our household I'm the kind of

6:23

force of chaos when it comes to

6:25

making up songs. I'll come up with a new one every day.

6:27

And then my husband's the sounding god

6:29

and if he can sing it again it's on the

6:31

album. One of my favourite ones which I was so

6:33

proud of that I actually wrote down the

6:36

lyrics to the verses. Yes there

6:38

are verses. With, he's

6:40

just a tiny little baby,

6:42

he's just a tiny little

6:44

guy, he's just a tiny

6:47

little baby, he doesn't know the ground

6:49

from the sky. I

6:51

love it. I wish that you could see my beaming

6:53

face. I love

6:56

making up songs for him because he's like

6:58

the least judgemental audience in the world isn't it? Absolutely.

7:01

So when you started singing to your first

7:03

child were there specific lullabies you knew you

7:06

wanted to sing? I don't

7:08

remember there being any real

7:10

strategy behind it other than

7:12

the first thing that came to

7:14

my exhausted brain. Like

7:16

Twinkle Twinkle Little Star or something

7:18

very simple that I'm like okay

7:20

this is a nursery rhyme and

7:22

I'm landing into nursery rhymes that

7:24

already have a tried and true

7:27

proven soothing formula. This

7:29

is another one, there's probably lyrics to this but

7:31

I never sang the lyrics. Humming As

7:46

it turns out it's Brahms Lullaby which

7:48

the composer wrote for a friend in 1868 when our son

7:50

was born. It's

7:53

probably the most famous lullaby ever

7:55

written thanks in part to

7:57

the smooth vocals provided by Frank Sinatra.

8:00

In Nineteen forty four

8:02

there will go. Those

8:10

shows were. I

8:21

definitely remember that wracking of friends like

8:23

I came. To never had completely unexpected

8:25

with any nursery rhymes and I remember like

8:27

he was a week old and trying. To

8:30

deny sing T and the only thing that came

8:32

to mind was A does he see. Some tea

8:34

about the desk. So

8:39

he got see Sunday services month and is less

8:41

do we get a little rendition of the Sea

8:43

Shanty. Says there's gold.

8:45

In the center where the

8:47

some sea. Food

8:50

or. Like

8:52

me. Helen slows the

8:55

Sicilian. Now. Coming soon as

8:57

they won't let us go

8:59

to see an moon. And

9:03

but it's miserable is like they won't let us

9:05

go to see a livelihood. Is going the

9:07

quotas? Oh, it's terrible if it

9:09

fits this year. Usually the best

9:11

not to think too deeply about

9:13

the underlying meaning or history. Some

9:15

time. Saw. But dollars? That's exactly what we're

9:18

gonna do. The best! Traditional

9:21

nursery rhymes? a deeply entrenched in our

9:24

culture, and some of them date that

9:26

hundreds of years. But have you ever stop

9:28

to think? what? It. Is you're really singing

9:30

Feel Kids after. Doing some digging, I

9:32

think it's probably best that we sit down

9:34

and what? these traditional nurses and her bed?

9:36

Because let's say some of them get pretty

9:39

stunning. Black

9:45

sheep. T. You

9:47

remember, have up a black

9:49

suit guys so I know.

9:51

Yeah, that's Babar black sheep.

9:54

Have you any? Woo Yes

9:56

sir, Yes sir. Three bags

9:58

full. One for this. Doing

10:00

something further. Something. One

10:03

for the master and one for the

10:05

Danes. One further little boy who lives

10:08

down the lane the S S S.

10:10

so I checked earlier of me singing

10:12

does he see seventies. About quite as

10:14

and stuff to my baby. And this is.

10:16

It's just a bit like that because

10:18

it's about. Tax Disobeyed me about

10:21

taxes immediately. I mean, it's never

10:23

too late, Senator: it's. So.

10:27

Basically in the thirteenth century and

10:29

England's the king had just ended

10:31

the crusades or so coming out.

10:33

that England is really cool and

10:35

they thought we need to regain.

10:37

Some money so we can to put

10:39

tacks on wolf and they did That

10:41

was called the Great Custom and essentially

10:44

the King would take a third of

10:46

all the wool a farmer produced and

10:48

then the church. Because the church and

10:50

Bolland would take a third and.

10:53

You'd end up with only a sad

10:55

tale south to share. And the community

10:57

science isn't see that people have hated

10:59

taxes. For literally centuries.

11:05

Would believe that it's. Going

11:10

to. I don't know

11:12

it as a song, I know like Jack

11:14

and Jill went up the hill to such

11:16

appeal of water just came. Down and break

11:18

his crown and Jill came tumbling

11:20

Asta. Subject

11:23

and show was a spoken Rhine which

11:25

originated in England where the world crimes

11:27

in or sending your head. So.

11:30

Because of that, a lot of people

11:32

think. that said, unless you're is actually

11:35

about Louis the sixteenth, Marianne to Annette

11:37

to famously met their ends at the

11:39

end of the fence revelations by losing

11:42

their heads. As

11:45

in broke his grandson. Scientists and

11:47

completely off at the his head crime

11:49

or can practise happen. But

11:51

there are a few holes and misinterpretation.

11:55

That. Hadn't Nasser i'm came

11:57

before that event. Same a.

12:00

probably wasn't anything to do

12:02

with beheading. It was just about tax. So

12:08

King Charles I in England wanted

12:10

to increase the taxes on another

12:12

very commonly purchased commodity, alcohol. Taxing

12:15

alcohol, not a popular thing to

12:17

do. So instead of actually raising

12:20

the taxes on alcohol, what he

12:22

did was formally reduce the size

12:24

of certain measures of alcohol. So

12:27

in England at that time, you could buy

12:29

a jack, which was about

12:31

a quarter of a pint of alcohol. But

12:34

what the king did was reduce the size of a

12:36

jack down to an eighth of a

12:38

pint. So you would actually be getting less, but

12:41

you'd still be paying the same tax on a

12:43

jack. So jack fell down.

12:46

And then there's another measure of alcohol,

12:48

which is defined as twice a jack.

12:50

It's called a jill. Got it. So

12:53

because a jill is always twice a

12:55

jack, that had to come down as

12:57

well. So Jill came jumbling after.

13:00

Wow, that is so awesomely

13:02

British. So

13:08

people like to satirize to

13:10

really take the Mickey out of

13:12

British rulers because you've got

13:15

no power against them. So all we can

13:17

do is make satire about them. So

13:20

here's another satirical one. Mary,

13:23

Mary, quite contrary. How

13:27

does your garden grow? With silver

13:29

bells and cockle shells and pretty

13:31

maids all in a row. Sounds

13:33

nice, doesn't it? You know, that sounds really nice from

13:35

my perspective on this side of the world. Yeah,

13:38

so according to some scholars,

13:40

it's probably about torture. Oh

13:43

no. Oh no. Oh, British

13:45

people. So

13:49

Queen Mary I of England,

13:51

also known as Bloody Mary, she

13:54

was maniacal and terrible.

13:57

And she would just execute people who

13:59

didn't. Agree with her religious

14:01

ideals says the bells and

14:03

couple cells that. Actually referring

14:06

to implements. Suppose pain?

14:08

Sad to say. I

14:11

know. And you know at noon

14:13

a betrayal might be people spinning history but

14:15

as a good sammy the thus what that

14:17

was about which that's terrifying of go with

14:20

removing that for my i'm My album much

14:22

get it. I'm not here to conflict but

14:24

in I believe what you want to place. And.

14:26

There's another same islam that's been

14:29

twisted money history. I'm

14:32

feeding three. Humpty

14:34

Dumpty sat on a wall. Humpty Dumpty

14:36

had a great for all the king's

14:38

horses and all the king's men can

14:40

for hunting together again. So

14:44

what do you visualize? In your mind when

14:46

nice run, I mean I visualize

14:48

all the illustrations that I've seen

14:50

in nursery rhyme books where there's

14:52

a literal egg with eyes and

14:54

a big smile sitting on a

14:56

wall or with arms and legs

14:58

and that Humpty dumpty falls and

15:00

cracks and a little bit of

15:02

the egg comes out. Lovely,

15:05

lovely vigil that. Where does

15:07

it say in their i'm that he's an egg.

15:12

Oh oh oh

15:14

oh. And

15:17

a blow your mind a little that that's. Ah,

15:20

Well. It does not say anything

15:22

about an egg. Why is an egg

15:24

man sitting on a wall? The: what

15:26

are the illustrators up to do? It

15:30

actually comes from Lewis Carroll's same

15:32

right Alice in Wonderland. He wrote

15:34

a salon novel called Through the

15:36

Looking Glass and there was a

15:39

character in Medical Uses, a nursery

15:41

rhyme, and. Just like the disappearance

15:43

has a cat in the pocket watch

15:45

wielding mean it can imagine Humpty as

15:47

a some testicle creature in this case

15:50

an anthropomorphic and and somehow the image

15:52

stuff. That

15:55

the truth is almost as weird. Origin

16:00

is thought to the from the

16:02

seventeenth century and Humpty Dumpty was

16:04

a seat cannon. A Sees

16:06

Cannon Yeah, Cannon like up. put a

16:08

big thing in it and suited. A

16:11

big heavy blow that and suited to knock

16:14

down a building oh other time England was

16:16

in the middle of the Civil. War.

16:19

Humpty. Dumpty was actually a common

16:21

sense. Things Kings. Forces to

16:23

to the top of the church tower.

16:26

Soon seats are the opposing side and

16:28

the war. But at one point,

16:30

that gun sentence. In the time and friends.

16:36

And. Then all the king's horses know the king's men. As.

16:42

Nothing actually and us is canon.

16:44

And adorable sounding and pretty. Keep

16:46

them that. Ring

16:49

around the rosie. Rosie

16:53

A Parker Posey

16:55

ah says ah

16:57

says squeal Food.

17:00

In England when I was slightly different.

17:02

Session ends: If this is a disease

17:05

we all fall then. This.

17:07

Is gonna be terrible I know and.

17:10

Wow. One theory is it's about the

17:12

great plague of London. and Sixteen Sixty

17:14

says. This

17:17

is an outbreak of Bubonic plague that

17:19

killed a quarter of the population of

17:21

London in less than a year. so

17:23

ring around the rosie plagues of for

17:25

his would get read rings on their

17:28

skin. a pocketful of places places of

17:30

flowers, little bunch of flowers in your

17:32

pockets sees hide the scent. Of

17:34

very ill and the mean

17:36

people are trying. To

17:38

cease and desist. To not fuck

17:41

that sneezes. saw that various other

17:43

bodily fluids alternatively and says could

17:45

be the remains of those poor

17:47

souls as to com a sense

17:49

and we all fall down. I

17:51

think he done in me to

17:53

explain that. However,

18:00

it might not be a bad that. Bring.

18:02

Me back up. It might just be religion.

18:05

So the actual.

18:07

Nursery Rhyme itself might not date from

18:10

that time it wasn't written. Way.

18:12

Back in sixteen, Sixty Five.

18:14

So. Visited. San said it. Was

18:16

written about a religious some on I'm

18:18

saying. During

18:21

the nineteenth century, England experienced

18:23

quite strong religious persecution or

18:26

all forms of singing and

18:28

dancing. And

18:30

children still wanna dance? Say.

18:32

They've done with parties and it's

18:34

essentially they would just glad that

18:37

they were children and they were

18:39

playing and came up with away

18:41

as singing and dancing Senate and

18:44

there are other records of the

18:46

nursery rhyme with a much less

18:48

sinister. Lyric. Oh Really? set?

18:51

of guys ring ring arises the pocket

18:53

for a pisces one suggest monster gin

18:55

and once a little notice that can't

18:57

see him and the cats the at

18:59

and a cat see altogether serves as

19:01

a way as kids getting around this

19:03

religious restriction on there and. Sing. and having

19:05

some which is a much nicer thankfully

19:07

I think still shadowed and us. It

19:14

really makes a much more complex

19:16

ban on reciting these are singing

19:18

these two children because you can't

19:20

on here at once. You know

19:22

the story behind it and as

19:24

sorry. Not

19:27

goes the weasel. Today

19:29

there are quite a few sessions of this out

19:32

there. That. The original guys like

19:34

this. Half. Of and seventy

19:36

rice salsa Town to three calls. That's

19:38

the way the money goes. Cost goes

19:41

the weasel. And in

19:43

case you never heard of, his trickle is

19:45

a bit like molasses. Just like

19:47

bread and milk. saw something list of

19:49

goes the weasel. And we just

19:51

on this. Okay, so we're going to the

19:53

market. We're getting our basics partners the weasel.

19:55

it almost sounds a little bit late. and

19:57

Bob's your uncle, I suppose it does. Yeah,

20:00

I never thought I'd be doing so

20:02

much English to English translation. And and

20:04

Bob's your Uncle means something like and

20:06

there you have it, that Pop goes

20:09

the Weasel is Not a phrase in

20:11

the Uk. Like Bob's your uncle. It

20:13

makes no sense here either, but it

20:15

might mean something to a few specific

20:18

groups. So at a weasel. Is

20:20

a tool used by clock spinners.

20:22

Some missouri a particular length of

20:24

the on this spends and then

20:26

when it's done. It goes. Almost.

20:29

Like a typewriter like system is that many the

20:31

eating at the end. Okay, So.

20:35

One. of the series is that this

20:37

is a rhyme that's like a a

20:39

young spinners mind wandering to that daily

20:42

tasks while said doing their job said

20:44

i just like okay one of my

20:46

son again as a still. Have

20:49

on or something or other undertaken. Oh

20:51

there's my own. It's since public has

20:54

the legal and there are more that

20:56

versus other things going on the they

20:58

all stay like mind wander year to.

21:01

They don't need a dark British case.

21:03

Yes A When you hear the other

21:05

verses that x nice inclined to falls

21:07

apart. Oh gosh, here we go again.

21:11

The. Other interpretation allies on an

21:13

intimate knowledge. As cockney rhyming slang.

21:15

And. Is is where again I'm sorry. It's

21:18

super bright spots. A weasel and a States

21:20

is company rhyming slang for a cult. So

21:22

to wear tight as to where you

21:24

islam state and pop something is to

21:26

sell at a pawnshop. So let me

21:29

some of us again. Half a pound

21:31

of toughening Ross? Half a pound of

21:33

trickle? That's the way the money days.

21:35

Pop. Goes the weasel says his

21:38

are slightly. I. Have to buy

21:40

my daily something list. My. Money

21:42

is now gone. Pop goes the weasel.

21:44

I have to porn Mike said. Oh.

21:47

Gosh, it does make sense. It was so

21:50

wholesome there for a moment. Normally great are

21:52

right? We got one snow and then it's

21:54

sorrowful again. next verse is up and down

21:56

the city right in and out the door that's

21:58

the way the money goes Pop goes

22:00

the weasel. So the eagle is a pub

22:02

in London, City Road in London. So you're

22:05

going into the pub, out of the pub,

22:07

your money's gone again. Pop goes

22:09

the weasel, Cornucote again. I

22:12

think the thing that's really jumping out is the

22:15

amount of sorrow and pain

22:17

and melancholy behind many of

22:19

these. And to have

22:21

something that's an oral tradition where many people

22:23

are singing something like this, I suspect that

22:26

that was very cathartic for people to know

22:28

that, like, okay, everyone's dealing with these taxes.

22:30

Many people lost their lives during

22:32

this terrible period. And

22:34

I think including it as a children's

22:37

song gives it the opportunity to have

22:39

this kind of naivety filter. It's

22:42

cathartic to the adults who are singing

22:44

it, but to a child, it's just

22:46

nice sounds. They're good words. It's like

22:48

the best kind of therapy. And

22:50

that's something that we are still echoing

22:52

back to our children, however many hundreds

22:55

of years later. Right.

22:57

It's like an echo of history that we're

22:59

still repeating, even if we don't really know

23:01

the root of the echo. Okay,

23:08

well, I'm going to do a little pivot

23:10

on the emotions now because a lot of

23:12

those nursery rhymes are historical. They are dating

23:15

back hundreds of years, but a lot of

23:17

the songs that we sing to our kids

23:19

these days are not that old. So

23:23

once you get into the 20th century, you

23:25

start to get songs that appear to be

23:27

written just for children, which is quite nice.

23:29

It's a nice change. Just

23:31

like those historical nursery rhymes, these

23:33

newer children's songs have some pretty

23:36

surprising backstories, but they're also shaped

23:38

by changing technology. We

23:40

sing on recorded music, radio, film

23:42

and television. Kids' music would never

23:44

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Radio Lab Adventures on the

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little baby. Has

27:00

to the baby. Don't say word. Mom's

27:02

gonna buy you a mockingbird. Miss that

27:05

mockingbird. Don't sing songs. Gonna buy you

27:07

a diamond ring? And I'm really

27:09

sorry but because of all of what

27:11

we just talked about I like don't

27:13

trust you at this point like mama

27:15

is some bloody teaching of something back

27:17

in the day and I feel like

27:19

a broken you Dallas assess assess what

27:22

everything has a hidden meaning. Know honestly,

27:24

this is. Just. A nice little

27:26

song to sing to your baby. You promise,

27:28

I promise. That

27:32

full mast is perfectly adapted. Fellow

27:34

attempts to meet up. Whatever they

27:36

can think of to rhyme. Friday

27:38

that. Most people saying

27:40

one particular person and that's because

27:43

that was the ones us and

27:45

that was recorded basket nineteen thirty.

27:47

Seven. So prior to that point it

27:49

was an oral. History entirely it was

27:51

Nina traded asked these hidden isn't things that

27:53

you've been a bio baby to soothe them.

27:55

It was the same sense, but it was

27:57

a much. more fluid kind of flaxen

28:00

And that's the case for a lot of the older

28:02

nursery rhymes. They changed with

28:04

every retelling. When

28:10

the tune and lyrics to Hush Little Baby were first written

28:12

down in 1918, there

28:14

were already at least two versions out there.

28:17

This one from Virginia. Hush little

28:19

Minnie and don't say a word.

28:22

Papa's gonna buy you

28:25

a mockingbird. And

28:27

this one from North Carolina. Hush

28:29

little Minnie and don't say

28:32

a word. Papa's gonna

28:34

buy you a mockingbird.

28:38

But that all changed with the advent of

28:40

audio recording. In 1937,

28:42

there was a wax cylinder recording

28:44

made of an African-American woman in

28:46

Alabama singing it. And

28:49

she sings a set of lyrics

28:51

that, as far as I know,

28:53

that is the official version now.

28:55

Hush little Minnie and don't say a

28:57

word. Papa's gonna buy you a

29:00

mockingbird. Hush little Minnie and don't

29:02

say a word. Papa's gonna buy

29:04

you a darlin' ring. But that

29:06

darlin' ring is there. Papa's gonna

29:08

buy you a mockingbird. Hush little

29:10

Minnie and don't say a darlin'

29:12

ring. Papa's gonna buy you a

29:14

mockingbird. Billy Gates. Bulls

29:17

and cards. This is not the world we're living

29:19

in right now. But this is still the song

29:22

that we're singing our children because that folk song

29:24

was frozen in time. I love

29:26

the glimpse that it was less than 100 years

29:28

ago in that little snapshot at how much

29:30

the world has changed so quickly. It's

29:33

kind of a two-way thing. I wonder if

29:35

maybe things would be a bit more creative if it

29:37

wasn't for that recording, because we wouldn't still be

29:39

singing about ox and carts and bulls

29:42

and billy goats and things like that. But

29:44

we can't turn back the hands of time. And

29:46

once recording was out there, it sparked a whole

29:48

new industry. Music made

29:51

specifically for children. So

29:53

essentially what entertainment artists at this

29:55

point are doing is seeing what

29:57

works for kids and using it commercially.

30:00

And that's where kids' music really breaks out

30:02

into the big leagues. So

30:04

where before a lot of things were nursery

30:06

rhymes and it was just a rhyme or

30:08

the poem, in the 20th

30:10

century you get more musical stuff because

30:12

that's what sounds records. Once

30:17

recording became common, children's musicians

30:20

started using and reusing certain

30:22

musical formulas. Twinkle, twinkle,

30:24

little star. Twinkle, twinkle, little star.

30:28

You started by saying that twinkle, twinkle, little star

30:30

was your go-to song when you... Oh, don't

30:32

ruin that for me. It's not ruined.

30:34

Promise it's not ruined. But there's a reason

30:36

you went to it and that's because it

30:39

permeates our minds. Sing it for me.

30:42

Twinkle, twinkle, little

30:44

star. How

30:47

I wonder what you

30:49

are. You are

30:51

a TV. Up above

30:53

the world so high, like

30:55

a diamond in... It's

30:58

the same tune. Right. Twinkle,

31:00

twinkle, little star. ABC, same tune. Also, to

31:02

some extent, Baba Black Sheep, which may have

31:04

once been written as a poem that has

31:06

now come to that same tune. Twinkle,

31:09

twinkle, little star.

31:13

How I wonder what you

31:15

are. Another

31:18

new phenomenon was pop cultural music

31:20

that got repurposed as children's songs.

31:24

Skinna Marink. This

31:26

is a complete education for me because prior to

31:28

you telling me about this, I have never heard

31:31

of that song and it's the best

31:33

and it got stuck in my head for like three

31:35

weeks. I sing this all the time.

31:37

I love singing it because I get to say I love you

31:39

over and over and over again. And I guess I'm going to

31:41

have to sing it. By

31:44

all means, go free. Skinna Marinky, Dinky Dink.

31:46

Skinna Marinky, Doo. I

31:49

love you. Skinna

31:52

Marinky, Dinky Dink. Skinna Marinky,

31:55

Doo. I

31:57

love you. Skin

32:00

of a ring key ding key ding skin of

32:02

a ring key do I Love

32:05

you. I love you name redacted.

32:07

I Love

32:10

you your daddy's sweetheart. I

32:14

Love you That's

32:17

you a boop-boop-be-do. God I kiss

32:19

him on the head. Oh my god That's

32:22

so adorable and I cannot believe that I'm

32:24

doing that for a hundred thousand plus people

32:30

See that is what having a kid

32:32

does to you. No self esteem

32:34

issues. Nope I don't care about

32:36

looking like a dork anymore. I kind of embrace it

32:39

I honestly think that looking like a dog

32:41

is the best thing you can do for yourself

32:43

because people Get to see you

32:45

what you're passionate about and if they don't

32:47

like that then they don't like you and they don't deserve to Be in your

32:50

life. I want to just clip that and

32:52

put it on a poster on my wall. I

32:54

love it Be the dog you want to be

33:00

Anyway all dorkiness aside back

33:02

to skin of a rink. It's entirely

33:04

an North American thing It came from

33:06

a Broadway show in 1910

33:08

called the echo which was about mermaids

33:11

and the lyrics were slightly different But

33:13

the idea is that skin of a

33:15

rinky dinky dink in mermaid language means

33:17

I love you Oh, here's

33:19

the original version from a YouTube channel

33:21

called sheet music singer So

33:39

The sense is still preserved and then Commercialization

33:41

happened and there was a Canadian kids show

33:43

in the 80s that used it in their

33:46

ending credits Then

33:54

they named an ice rink after It skin of a

33:56

rinky dink. As.

34:00

The twentieth century went on the market.

34:02

the kids entertainment. Three entries. As the

34:05

years, many of the songs from these

34:07

movies and Tv shows have been adopted

34:09

by parents as long as. Long

34:14

as. There's

34:17

no. I

34:22

live. It's not

34:25

the things you were. It's.

34:28

Not the way you do your

34:30

or in are there are meant.

34:52

To say who's I

34:55

remember. Though

34:58

that made you cry. In

35:02

recent years, some kids songs have become just

35:04

as iconic as the biggest pop hits. Need

35:06

I say any more? Than say be shock.

35:10

Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope Nope. We are not. Find a

35:12

clip of that. But. Today artists

35:14

are going a step further. Recent

35:16

in the Uk, a couple of

35:18

companies has started to think that

35:20

actually developing songs the Us to.

35:23

Ethically designed, To Seize

35:25

Babies said he's a kind of scientific

35:27

a the songs and honestly so far

35:29

they seem to work. Sites

35:31

does one some cold jurist.

35:34

And it's been created by the British Academy

35:36

of San Therapy and the see them as

35:38

between Aldi and I designed it with all

35:40

the elements the a supposed to help a

35:43

baby to sleep. Know

35:45

lyrics at all. The idea is that lyrics

35:47

of over stimulated. The

36:00

Life. Of

36:02

night, noise and and

36:04

means wins. And

36:14

if I don't think the news is.

36:22

Another one my little one was really

36:24

small as is the only thing that

36:26

was Atlanta sleep. Between

36:28

me, And all the people I recommended it

36:30

to. I think some. Of the responsible for

36:32

that. But.

36:39

That's not the only carefully crafted get

36:41

so. There's another one which is definitely

36:43

gonna get stuck in your head. The Happy

36:45

Song. By Image in Heat. I've heard

36:47

of it, but been scared to press

36:49

play on Asa. I mean to

36:52

say with caution because it. Is catchy

36:54

as. So.

37:07

It was a collaboration between. Her and com

37:09

gate to make they'll be for me or

37:11

baby seats and continue. Sixteen. So she

37:14

came up with a whole bunch says

37:16

different melodies and ten plays and things

37:18

like that. And they did take this

37:20

focus. I just love the idea of

37:22

this. They did a focus group say

37:25

these and soul of Wit Syverson favorite.

37:27

An adorable second? Just imagine

37:29

so. Yeah, they played these lessons

37:31

for the babies and image and picked

37:33

the elements that what's best and so

37:36

it's literally kind of like a fantasy

37:38

to. They've. Been

37:46

told he told. He hobbled. that

37:54

they actually ended up system with him that

37:56

the inside a to give a sense for

37:59

the lyrics to for those

38:01

things. A

38:08

lot of the sounds that

38:11

she includes are very places

38:13

that people have more.

38:27

Lots of sounds that children respond to.

38:41

That is kind of where we're at

38:43

now. A culmination of all of the

38:45

things that we've learned about entertaining our babies.

38:47

We know what a baby likes now. It's

38:49

not just whinging about taxes. It's

38:52

everything that they love and I wonder what

38:54

the future will hold for nursery

38:56

rhymes. Whatever

38:59

it is, these songs will continue to

39:01

play a vital role in shaping the

39:03

experience of young babies and of

39:06

new parents too. I grew

39:08

up in a way where I was

39:10

very self-conscious and very self-doubtful. And of

39:12

course I think anyone who grows up

39:14

that way continues to struggle with that

39:16

through adulthood and I certainly do. But

39:20

I knew consciously and with my wife's

39:22

help, we did not want to instill

39:24

that in our own children. And

39:27

so I knew that if I was critical

39:29

or if I just didn't sing, that

39:31

would instill a self-doubt of

39:33

them. So for them,

39:36

I try to put my

39:38

own mask on and project full confidence because

39:40

I don't want anyone in my family to

39:42

think, oh I can't sing or

39:44

oh I'm not very good at that. Because

39:46

singing is not about whether you're good

39:48

or not. It's a human activity that

39:50

is soothing. You know I can sing

39:52

to myself by myself and it's very

39:55

soothing. But

39:59

the children... doctrine, music does much more

40:01

than just soothe them. Scientists

40:06

have studied the effect of music on

40:08

young kids' brains, and the results are

40:10

remarkable. Listening to music

40:12

stimulates the release of happy chemicals like

40:14

oxytocin and dopamine. It has

40:16

long-lasting effects on the parts of the brain

40:18

involved with speech development, and it

40:20

helps to make kids more sociable and cooperative.

40:24

Kids are trying to explore their world

40:26

in these five wild senses

40:28

that they're trying to grasp. How

40:30

better to explore that sense of

40:32

sound other than through your parents' voices

40:35

and the music that you hear and,

40:37

you know, I'm not a brain scientist,

40:39

but all of these things are

40:41

connecting neurons and... Yeah, I don't think

40:43

you have to be a brain scientist to see the effect that

40:45

it has on kids. And

40:48

of course, it's not just the kids that get

40:50

the benefits. I'd go

40:52

as far as to say after

40:54

this conversation that these nursery rhymes

40:56

and songs are just as important

40:58

for the singer than it is

41:00

for the recipient. As

41:03

somebody who sings to my child, yeah,

41:05

I would very much agree. But

41:12

while these songs have a huge impact on us, for

41:15

most of us, they're only a part of our

41:17

lives for a few short years. First

41:19

when we're young children ourselves, and then when

41:21

we have young children of our own. It's

41:27

quite a gift that you're giving me here because this

41:29

is a period of my life, a decade when I

41:31

have small children, where I know

41:34

if I don't memorialize this, I will

41:36

lose some of these deep memories. As

41:38

any parent can tell you, before you know it,

41:41

your kids have outgrown these nursery rhymes

41:43

and moved on to other things. You

41:45

know, I'm mourning a little bit. I've been doing this

41:48

for about a decade and the songs

41:50

are becoming more few and far in between

41:52

and it's kind of sad. Yeah,

41:55

I've already noticed within the first few months

41:57

of having a child that there's a lot

41:59

of mourning involved isn't there

42:01

about the little child that there was

42:03

and the things that you don't do

42:05

anymore. Right it's you

42:08

know the longest shortest time. Mm-hmm

42:11

certainly is. 20,000

42:36

Hertz is produced out of the sound design studios

42:38

of DeFacto Sound. Listen at

42:40

defactosound.com. This episode was written and

42:43

produced by Layla Butterson. It was

42:45

story edited by Casey Emmerlich. With

42:47

help from Grace East. It was

42:50

sound designed and mixed by Joel

42:52

Boyder. Along with being

42:54

a podcast producer Layla also has

42:56

an incredible TikTok channel called Layla

42:58

and Science Baby. Over there

43:01

she posts videos of her adorable toddler

43:03

paired with all kinds of scientific facts

43:05

about babies. It's endearing, enlightening, and

43:07

honestly my favorite thing on TikTok.

43:10

You can also find Science Baby

43:12

on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube under

43:15

the name Something Incredible. There's

43:17

a link to all of these channels in the show notes.

43:20

I'm Dallas Taylor. Thanks for

43:22

listening. you

43:38

Before we go, a quick reminder that we're

43:41

taking a summer break to spend some time

43:43

with our own families. Whatever podcast app you

43:45

use, go into the settings and make sure

43:47

that you have notifications and automatic downloads turned

43:49

on for 20,000 Hertz. There are instructions in

43:51

the show notes. While we're gone,

43:54

it's a great time to go back

43:56

and catch up on older episodes. Every

43:58

episode we make is intentionally evergreen. So

44:00

what that means is you can listen to any of them

44:02

at any time. We've been around

44:04

for almost eight years now, and we've

44:06

covered so many fascinating topics. Our

44:08

show is always clean and accessible for all ages.

44:11

And if you're a parent, 20,000 Hertz is

44:13

a great way to get your kids excited and

44:16

curious about the world around them. It's also a

44:18

really good conversation starter with kids. I've talked to

44:20

my own kids many times about some of the

44:22

podcast episodes I've made. So if you

44:24

have something like a family road trip coming up, then

44:27

download a few episodes and listen together in the car.

44:29

In the show notes of this episode, we've put

44:31

a list of five 20,000 Hertz episodes

44:34

that kids absolutely love. We also have

44:36

direct links to open them in Apple

44:38

podcasts or Spotify. Have a

44:40

great summer and keep an eye out for an

44:42

extra special episode coming out in late June. Thanks.