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0:01
Welcome back to Unscripted . In
0:03
this episode , we continue our powerful
0:05
conversation with Danielle and Karina
0:07
, two inspiring single moms
0:09
navigating life after divorce . They
0:12
share their experiences in this new chapter
0:14
of their lives how their kids have
0:16
adjusted , the new bonds they have
0:18
formed , and how to face
0:20
the challenges of disapproval with strength
0:22
and grace . You don't want to miss
0:24
it . Welcome
0:27
to Unscripted , your guide
0:29
to discovering the various options available
0:32
to you in the integrated and collaborative
0:34
medicine space . I'm Janine Barandi
0:36
and I've been treating patients with acupuncture
0:39
for 10 years and I'm Jenny Poole
0:41
.
0:42
I'm a trauma specialist and somatic therapist
0:44
with a passion for psychedelic-assisted
0:46
psychotherapy . The objective of our podcast
0:48
is to explore the various
0:50
care options available . Through our years
0:52
of practice , we've found that different modalities
0:54
can complement each other and conventional
0:57
medicine .
0:57
We hope our conversations resonate and
0:59
help you find the right tools and specialists
1:02
for your unique needs .
1:04
We believe in an advanced care model where the doctor
1:06
is not the only expert . We encourage
1:08
you to embrace a mindset where your practitioners are
1:10
your teammates , who ultimately empower you
1:12
to take control of your health as with every
1:14
episode .
1:15
This is not intended to act as medical advice
1:17
and no patient practitioner relationship
1:19
is formed from subscribing or tuning in
1:22
. How's it been ?
1:24
with your kids , because I know how it was with my kids
1:26
. Mine were like I told you , there's six
1:28
going on seven , eight going on nine
1:30
. So how did you guys talk about
1:32
it with them ? Well , danielle
1:34
and I have drastically
1:37
different sort of dynamics and experiences
1:39
with that , as I never
1:41
married my son's father . In fact
1:43
, I moved across
1:46
the country away from my son's father
1:48
as early as like
1:50
four months . My
1:52
youngest was four months old and
1:54
my oldest was just about
1:57
three , so they don't have memories
1:59
or memories of me ever being
2:01
in a relationship with their dad . Yeah , it's
2:03
always been just us . My
2:07
ex-husband was their stepdad and they
2:10
actually seemed very
2:12
relieved . It
2:15
was almost like a coming
2:17
back to each other after
2:19
the separation . We without
2:22
his energy and his , we
2:24
had the spaciousness to be ourselves
2:26
and be the trio that we always
2:29
were . My
2:31
youngest son , who's 11 , now
2:33
still sleeps with me and he
2:35
couldn't do that while I was married . And
2:38
although my ex-husband was a
2:40
great guy , he was decent , he
2:44
just kind of played it very
2:46
kind of flat noted with the boys
2:48
. He wasn't like the best stepdad
2:51
, he didn't really . That's a good
2:53
kind of . That's a good place to diverse , because some
2:55
stepmats like couldn't be more
2:57
. Feel like mine , more my own . And some are like not
3:00
biological children's song part , yeah
3:02
, which is a whole spectrum , I know , yeah
3:04
, yeah , and our spectrum was just somewhere in the middle
3:07
. I mean , I think they were just like cool
3:10
dude , roommates , just like hey , dude
3:12
, hey you know . And
3:14
so I just think , with his energy gone
3:16
, it was like a coming home . And it's been
3:18
almost two years since our separation
3:21
and till this day my
3:23
kids will bring him up in
3:26
sort of curiosity , like remember when
3:28
or why did you choose him
3:30
? Why did you break up with
3:32
him ? Or , you know , why did he ever do
3:35
that ? What did you see in him ? Um
3:37
, imagine , if it's so like it still
3:39
moves through their , their
3:43
life , yeah for sure . Do you feel like you have
3:45
to temper that with age-appropriate responses
3:47
? no I feel like you'd be pretty transparent . I'm
3:50
pretty transparent with my boys , yeah
3:52
, and I've always which can still be age-appropriate . I
3:54
just mean I know sometimes what I would share with , like
3:56
what I shared with my nine-year-old , for example . Of
3:58
course it's different than what I shared with my seven-year-old . Yeah
4:01
, you know , yeah , and I find myself
4:03
sometimes getting a little bit frustrated and
4:05
it's just with me and I really do check
4:07
through . I check in with myself
4:09
and because they don't often understand
4:12
especially as I'm starting to
4:14
date , I'm
4:16
not fully transparent about that , but sometimes
4:18
they'll get little peeks here and there
4:20
and they'll ask questions and they don't often
4:22
understand my sort of fluidity
4:25
in it . Right , I'm I'm not
4:27
a very well , I don't know what
4:29
, would you call it A very typical kind of
4:31
conservative , I don't know
4:33
kind of a woman . So I
4:35
don't know . I often have to like , really
4:38
check in and make sure I'm using
4:40
the right words and I'm being as
4:42
understandable as possible
4:44
. It's like , hey , he's my friend . How
4:46
is he your friend if you're dating him ? He's a special
4:48
kind of man . Yeah , just
4:52
trying to navigate me
4:55
, taking a unique approach on my
4:57
single womanhood and explaining
5:01
that to two boys becoming men watching
5:04
you now . It's really challenging
5:06
sometimes and your kids are how old again
5:08
? 14 , just about 14 , and 11
5:10
, yeah , and so
5:13
it's been really interesting
5:15
and also really
5:18
adorable , as they've
5:20
seen me through my grief and they've seen
5:22
me come out of it and start dating and be
5:24
happy , and they empower
5:27
me and they tell me things
5:29
like you deserve so
5:31
much better . They
5:33
often will imagine the ideal
5:35
man for me and , yeah
5:38
, they , they show up for me in ways
5:40
that I know there's this message
5:42
behind it of like we've got imam
5:44
, but they're not alone , and
5:47
those two particular people contact . They
5:49
do . It's starting to develop and
5:51
grow , but for the majority of
5:53
their young's life , yeah
5:56
, their first years they did not , and
5:58
so , yeah , I've been solo parenting
6:00
them since , like the beginning all the heavy , yeah
6:03
, heavy lifting , yeah . And then bringing in my
6:06
now ex-husband was definitely
6:08
very challenging and he sure tried and
6:10
I have to give him credit . But
6:13
, yeah , to bring that full circle
6:15
, my kids have handled it well and
6:18
they've been on my side and I think we're in
6:20
a phase of rejoicing the
6:22
spaciousness that I've created for us
6:24
to get back to each other with
6:26
this sort of like I don't know , excitement
6:28
about life and where it's going and
6:30
, yeah , what's to
6:32
come . Yeah , I didn't . I think that that
6:35
comes with me always
6:37
just being like we're going to be okay
6:39
, like we've got each other . You know , like
6:41
me , separating was never
6:44
traumatic for them in the way
6:46
that they worried about their home or their
6:48
lifestyle or their love , like
6:50
mama always had that , so it wasn't
6:52
like a big startling thing . Hell
6:55
, yeah , yeah , good on you
6:57
, that's really honest . Yeah , how
7:01
would you ? How are your kiddos ?
7:02
I mean , we have a little one , so , yes , not like
7:05
it's a three-year-old , they're all so
7:07
my oldest is almost 12 and then I have
7:09
a nine-year-old and then three-year-olds and
7:11
they're all at completely different
7:13
life stages and they need like
7:15
different type of parenting and
7:18
we're all just super
7:20
in it . Right now . My older two
7:22
have a better understanding . I feel like myself
7:24
and my husband
7:27
, my ex I don't know what to call him because we're still kind
7:29
of in between . We're both like calm
7:32
and stable and able to like explain to them
7:34
. We just basically approached it as , like
7:36
relationships change and
7:39
right now our relationship is changing
7:41
and it's not a reflection of you guys
7:43
or we're still a family
7:45
, but that dynamic is going to change . That's
7:47
how we've tried to approach it , because we're still very
7:49
much involved in
7:51
like day-to-day life . So he moved out
7:53
of our house , but he's living it's like
7:56
a two minute drive away , and so we've
7:58
just been , we're just navigating that and
8:00
that that part's been really tricky . My
8:06
older two have a better mental understanding of what's going on there . They've like expressed
8:08
their emotions about it in different ways . Um
8:11
, my youngest , my three-year-old , he's
8:13
, he just doesn't , he doesn't understand
8:15
like . He's like why can't dad sleep at our
8:17
house ? Why he ?
8:19
he just has this confusion around it because for it's
8:22
all he's known , and so that parts in
8:24
emotional age
8:26
wise , do you find that you have to temper
8:29
like because I again I remember what
8:31
I would say to my , you know , my six-year-old
8:33
mom on set , I had my eight-year-old mom on
8:35
nine I like wouldn't say the same things as I
8:37
, because they've asked me a question later
8:39
. I'm like , hey , as you get older and better , so
8:41
I can better more , give you a better
8:43
scope of kind of what some
8:46
of the dynamics were . Yeah , but at the time
8:48
it just was like , hey , we love you and relationships
8:51
change . Do you feel like you have to you're
8:53
tempering kind of what you say , or do
8:55
you like you can just be pretty direct ?
8:58
I feel pretty open and pretty direct with my kids
9:00
, obviously in like an age appropriate way , but
9:03
I don't want to ever tell them something
9:05
that's not true , or even a half truth
9:07
, like I just change yeah , I just try . I . We
9:10
really just stuck with like our relationship is changing
9:12
. I kept it pretty simple because I
9:14
don't think , because we're so early in it
9:16
, I don't think they need , I don't think they want to
9:18
know depths . I think they'll have those questions
9:20
eventually as they like , start to process , start to think about it . I think they'll have those questions
9:22
eventually as they like , start to process , start to think about it . I think those questions
9:25
will come up . Right now it's just been the basics
9:27
of like just kind of step
9:29
by step , of like this is what we're doing . Dad's
9:32
going to live somewhere different and this is when
9:35
you're going to dad's house and when you're staying
9:37
here . And then we've also kept an openness
9:39
. We have some e-bikes that they can ride , like from our
9:41
house to his house . So
9:49
just giving my older two at least permission that you have access , yeah to me , or yeah , and I think
9:51
that's really important too . Obviously we have to have structure , but and I would take them if they
9:54
wanted to go to his house anytime but for them to feel
9:56
like they can freely go from place
9:58
to place , I think is a really big deal when
10:00
it can work out that way , yeah yeah
10:03
and that was a priority for both of us and
10:05
just figuring where he could
10:07
live , that was so close I think the
10:09
hardest , like emotionally . I think it's been the hardest
10:11
on my three-year-old , which makes sense
10:13
because he he doesn't have words to like express
10:16
what he's feeling , so for him it's come
10:18
out in like tantrums or
10:20
just being a little bit more difficult
10:22
or scratchy or he just he doesn't know how
10:24
to say . My
10:27
life is changing , the two most important
10:29
people in my life , yeah , and
10:31
that's been tricky for him . I mean , he's
10:33
pretty verbal for a three-year-old , so
10:35
he can say things , but I think just him processing
10:38
and understanding that and just
10:40
trying to be consistent of how we respond , just
10:43
those big feelings of this little body .
10:44
Yeah , Like I don't know how to deal with what feelings
10:47
comes out of that behavior and those huge
10:49
expressions . Does it ever make you feel
10:51
like oof ? Was this the right thing to do
10:53
?
10:53
Yes , I
10:56
feel like that's pretty normal to be , like
10:59
I'm making this huge decision that I
11:01
know in my heart is right for me , but of course
11:03
I'm like would it have just been easier to not
11:05
make this decision ? Because look at how much pain
11:07
it's causing my children and I
11:10
think that's what prevented me from making that decision
11:12
for so long is the worry
11:14
of how this huge change is going
11:16
to affect it's not just my decision
11:18
. That affects me , but it affects
11:21
my entire family and so , absolutely in
11:23
those moments , it's like wow , this is really entire family . And so , absolutely Like when , in those
11:25
moments , it's like , wow , this is really freaking hard
11:27
. And like what am I doing ?
11:29
Like questions like that , Of course , like I
11:31
feel that the flip side of that , though
11:33
, is I mean I guess I can
11:35
say this from being in my own relationship
11:38
not that , not
11:40
that I've had children that would be
11:42
affected by it , but at the end of
11:44
the day if I
11:47
am not peaceful and I am not
11:49
thriving , then
11:51
I'm not taking
11:53
care of myself and , as a mother
11:55
, if you're not taking care of yourself
11:57
and you're not putting yourself into the place
12:00
where you feel whole
12:02
and happy
12:05
, children are gonna you're . They're gonna figure that out
12:07
on their own . They're gonna pick it up
12:09
yeah , they will , and mothers
12:11
will . Of all the people that they
12:13
sacrifice typically the most for
12:15
for their own , it
12:18
will be their children , like I will I will
12:20
stay in misery if it means that you fear
12:22
so again . That's why I think it's such a great choice
12:24
. But they're not necessarily happy
12:26
, and what's interesting about that ? They feel it , yeah
12:28
, and I think what you
12:31
do as a mother is ultimately create these
12:33
complexes for your children , because
12:35
there is no dishonest , oh , there is
12:37
no honesty and no authenticity
12:40
, and you know , you're just kind of in this disillusioned
12:42
state about a
12:44
lot of things . I remember when my parents
12:47
were going through that whole
12:49
phase and I would pull them
12:51
aside separately and be like you guys can get
12:53
a divorce , and we're like , where did you hear that word ? And
12:56
it was just so palpable to me , absolutely
12:59
. And I would wake up in the middle of
13:01
the night and go into their room and see if
13:03
they were still in the same bed together . So
13:06
your children , I mean . I can speak
13:08
to this part because I'm the child
13:10
of a divorced you know
13:12
of divorced parents that
13:15
there was so much angst
13:18
and when
13:21
my dad left it was like for
13:24
me in that moment it was like
13:26
cool , we
13:28
get to play now . And
13:31
that wasn't necessarily the
13:34
rest of the emotion from the other people
13:36
in the family , and so I was like , oh , maybe
13:39
I'll dial it down , but there was a sense
13:41
in me like I'm so glad
13:44
that there's not going to be this
13:46
dynamic anymore . It was
13:48
full of conflict . Oh my god , it
13:51
was eggshells All the time . It
13:54
makes me think about my own mother , who
13:56
she lived
13:58
in survival mode her , she
14:01
still does , yeah and
14:03
she came from extreme poverty in
14:05
puerto rico . You know , they made
14:07
it to the united states with
14:09
very little and had to do simile
14:12
and all of this throughout
14:14
her whole marriage . My father
14:17
lived many , many
14:19
other lives and
14:21
they were married for 20 years
14:23
and I
14:25
mean my dad was sloppy with it . You
14:28
know all that he did it's . It's
14:30
really quite fascinating . It was
14:32
very pervasive . It was so obvious and
14:36
she didn't know him
14:38
until year 20 when all of it started
14:40
to come out . And you wonder
14:42
how much she just ignored
14:45
. You know how much she
14:47
just suppressed and turned a blind eye
14:49
and just kind of kept on the survival
14:51
track of what is expected
14:53
of her to take in and do
14:55
for her family and be a woman . So
14:58
you look at , the body keeps score . As a kid , see
15:00
, I remember this . Do you remember feeling like
15:03
so the cost of that still would have shown up in her
15:05
emotional body , even though she wasn't consciously
15:07
aware , because attached problems go that way ? Did
15:10
you sometimes see your mom battle depression
15:12
or anxiety or
15:14
that dissociated kind of flat state
15:16
? Sinker , okay . Lots of love
15:18
Sinker , yeah . And
15:22
did you guys pay the price of that sometimes ? Yeah
15:24
, and we still do . Ten years after
15:26
her divorce , we still do . She's
15:30
evolving quite beautifully these last few years
15:32
. I'm really proud of her and
15:35
yeah , anyway , that's a whole other podcast .
15:37
Sure .
15:39
Mother-daughter relationship . Oh
15:42
my god , let's
15:44
put it on the calendar now , yeah , anyway
15:48
, just to bring that full circle , I wonder
15:50
if my mama had any
15:52
choices for herself and her well-being
15:55
and her self-care , how
15:57
different all would have looked . She
16:00
ignored those feminine parts and just
16:02
kept on feminine parts , yeah , and just kept on this survival
16:04
track and suppressed it all . And
16:07
I and I , as the adult daughter
16:09
looking back , I wish
16:11
that my mother had chosen herself more
16:14
and made those sort of risky and brave
16:16
decisions .
16:18
Yeah , something powerful . Kareena's been a huge
16:21
part of , like my
16:23
journey as I go through this . But
16:26
something I just remember really clearly
16:28
, like saying to you is that just
16:31
that maybe it's easier if I stay , or
16:33
easier if I don't make that decision
16:35
? And you just were like , um
16:39
, just like , is it easier ? Like
16:42
like it feels like it in a lot of ways
16:44
, but is it actually easier to like not
16:46
follow my heart or follow
16:49
what I know is right for me , because I think
16:51
in from like a societal standpoint
16:53
or just there are a lot of ways it's easier , but
16:55
ultimately I I don't think it's the easier
16:58
decision , even though it can
17:00
feel that way .
17:01
Yeah , and the
17:03
beautiful piece of that is human
17:05
connection . Right , it's resourcing a friend and
17:08
sometimes it says I see you , I
17:10
love you , and so this is
17:12
coming from a place of love , like
17:15
, whatever choice you make , I'll honor and love you for
17:17
. Or it's easier , all
17:19
that's wrapped up in the way that she showed
17:21
you support and
17:24
women need that instead of competition and knock off your crown and mess
17:27
your face . But I'm gonna be really
17:29
awful behind and I think when
17:31
women can really support each other and be there for
17:34
each other , it really helps
17:36
through some of the toughest times because
17:38
, again , that community , that resourcing going I'm
17:41
, I don't want to feel so alone in this landscape
17:43
because it's hard , yeah
17:45
, it's a hard decision . I think we've been up for each other a
17:47
lot yeah you
17:49
guys can see it in the emotion that's up into your eyes
17:52
, the way that you have felt to each
17:54
other , and that's what I think
17:56
is when we're being wired for connection . That
17:58
is so important is that
18:00
in our most challenging times , we have people
18:03
that we can lean on , that love us and let's
18:05
say they got you . Yeah , you need
18:07
I'll have to fix it for you , but you need a voice
18:09
of support and love and and
18:12
to care for you . There are times , so
18:14
many times , where I mean I've watched my friends do it is
18:16
they're kind of staying in relationships that don't
18:18
serve them . I could sit down and be like , hey , you know it's
18:20
good for you and I've said it , but
18:23
also like , if you still choose
18:25
it , I love you yeah , like how can I help you ? right
18:27
. Sometimes the message is here
18:29
how can I help ? I can't do . You know a lot
18:31
, yeah , yeah , yeah
18:33
too . I do remember when my
18:35
kids were asking if we were getting divorced
18:37
and I was completely irritated about it because my
18:40
ex-husband and I had talked about really being thoughtful
18:42
about how we talked to them about it . But
18:45
he had , obviously , and as we resourced our friends
18:47
, he had resourced some of
18:49
what were our friends and
18:51
their dad was son
18:53
, was best friends with my oldest and
18:55
out of nowhere he's like are you guys getting divorced ? I
18:57
was like why are you asking that ? He's like well , because so
18:59
and so told me that you guys are getting divorced and I was like why are you asking
19:02
that ? He's ?
19:02
like .
19:02
Well , because so-and-so told me that you guys are getting divorced and I was
19:04
like cool , I'm really irritated right now . I even told him that . I
19:06
was like this is not the way
19:08
that dad and I would want to tell you . I'm not
19:11
gonna lie to you like yeah , and I
19:13
tears . And I was like I remember
19:15
calling my friend and
19:18
her husband at the time . I was like sure
19:20
wasn't the way I wanted to introduce stuff to my son . It
19:22
was like if you and it's not , and
19:24
to me it wasn't on the kid , because he's he
19:27
was a nine year old too like you can
19:29
say don't say anything , but he
19:31
did . And so to me that was on the parents
19:34
and I was like you say no , that was
19:36
not well done and
19:38
that we didn't let us tell
19:40
our sons that . And I'm frustrated
19:42
and I think it's important to be able to say
19:44
those kind of things , to
19:50
have boundaries with what you want to talk to your kids or what you want to give that information . And I had this in
19:52
down later with their dad . I'd
19:55
be like guys , you know , we love you . Our
19:57
relationship's changing , we want to be hard on you and
20:00
this is what I would say to people . Listening to this is
20:02
one
20:06
relationship is changing and we want to be hard on you and this is what I would say to people listening to . This is one of the things that's really powerful for kids is you get to have a relationship with me and dad , independent
20:08
, and help me and dad feel like a lot of children . Hopefully , me and dad are able to maintain harmony
20:11
and good co-parenting dynamics
20:13
here . The sophistication
20:16
of that language is going to change , but they're eight right
20:18
when you said to a four-year-old I
20:20
just said I just want to make sure you guys know that
20:23
you're allowed to have whatever
20:26
relationship you want to have with this little parent , again
20:28
separate from abuse and super toxic
20:31
situations . Regardless of
20:33
how we end up doing with our children , you
20:36
don't have to be in the middle , because
20:38
too many times kids are in the middle of that and
20:40
weaponized against each parent
20:42
and it's horrible for the kid . It's
20:44
it's horrible and it's hard on it's stressed
20:47
up and nervous systems and that's one
20:49
of the cases I remember talking to my ex-husband
20:51
about . I remember sitting in the car because I
20:53
just got done with work we had met up . It's like
20:55
, okay , this is happening
20:57
. He's like , yeah , I think so , I
20:59
think we're there and I all right , we've
21:01
both been in like therapeutic environments and I said
21:04
we've seen parents do this before . We've
21:06
seen them weaponize their kids against each other . He said
21:08
promise me , no matter who you bring into your life , and I'll promise
21:11
you this , that we never put
21:13
our kids in the middle of having to choose between
21:15
us , because , first and foremost , those kids need
21:17
to to have relationships with us in the 10-hour
21:19
hours throughout each other . He was
21:21
a father
21:23
of our world and I'm like well , if you do , please
21:26
promise me right now that
21:28
we will always let our kids have
21:30
healthy relationships with
21:33
each other , with us , and
21:36
that's something we've stuck to and we've not
21:38
been married for eight years . So it's
21:41
huge . I
21:43
love that so much and I also loved the
21:45
question that kind of started this whole recent
21:50
conversation on like how
21:52
do you talk to your kids about
21:54
this Right ? Is it age appropriate ? And I
21:57
think really it changes all the
21:59
time , like there really is no like
22:01
finite answer for it , and
22:03
I remember once upon a time just
22:06
being very simple and very clean
22:08
, and now , as they're getting older
22:10
and I'm sort of over my grief
22:13
, I can be a little bit more transparent and what
22:15
I've realized is that in that transparency
22:18
my sons are learning so
22:20
much about the
22:23
human experience . I'm human
22:25
, I'm human , I'm , I'm
22:28
struggling , I feel , I
22:30
feel this , I feel that and I'm
22:33
gonna have hard days I need to do some self-care
22:35
. I'm gonna actually take a bath , so I'll
22:37
check in in an hour , or you know , like
22:39
I tell my boys I'm on my moon and
22:41
they just , you know , it's
22:44
like this , just I love it . You've educated
22:46
your boys . It's
22:50
gonna matter absolutely , and
22:52
so I don't know , I feel like I'm just
22:54
not interested in the veneer and
22:56
being the strong , you know
22:58
, mom , and I'm more like I'm
23:01
struggling , I'm grieving and
23:03
being able to just talk about children , about what grief
23:05
is . I didn't have that word in my vocabulary
23:07
, you know , until I was
23:09
a child and so , yeah
23:12
, I don't know . I just I love where
23:14
I'm at now with my children , where I can
23:16
be more open about my process
23:18
, my emotional states and and
23:21
and , and I can now connect it to like my femininity
23:23
, like where I am in my cycle and
23:25
how you know that comes through and comes
23:27
up , and I and then I'm okay , I'm gonna do my job to like my femininity
23:29
, like where I am in my cycle and how you know that comes through and comes up and I and
23:31
then I'm okay , I'm going to do my job to like transmute it and release it , and so
23:33
and I think there's like an educational
23:36
piece to that too , to show them that we're not
23:38
perfect . I think it's so
23:40
important for kids to see our humanity
23:43
. Yeah that is the arc of our emotional
23:45
experience without burdening them
23:47
with our emotions , of saying I'm human too and
23:50
this is I might get . Too many times I've told
23:52
my teenage son I'm like , hey
23:54
, what did I do today ? That
23:57
that like tell me what I did
23:59
. That thinks that you can talk to me
24:01
like that , that's right , I'm going to disrespect you
24:03
. Like tell me what I did to be treated
24:05
this way , because I don't think I deserve something
24:07
. I do you better , let me know . And he's like , oh , I'm
24:10
just having a bad day , like cool , don't
24:12
disrespect me because you're having a bad day . Yeah
24:14
, but reminding him like you
24:16
get to have your emotions , but I do too . I don't
24:18
have to be a battering ram or a lightning post
24:20
for you just because I'm your mom , yeah , like
24:23
I love you , but you
24:25
get to experience my emotions too
24:27
. Yeah , and you showing up authentically that
24:29
way teaches emotional intelligence
24:31
. Yes , emotional intelligence . I can't tell you
24:34
how important that is . I worked in a young adult program for
24:36
a while and the lack of emotional intelligence
24:38
is 18 to 25 year olds and the way and
24:40
having to cultivate it . It's like it's
24:43
to me if you're going to have raw
24:45
intelligence , you're going to be smart . I
24:47
think emotional intelligence is just as important
24:49
, if not sometimes more important , because it's
24:51
how you traverse the world in connections and relationships
24:54
. If you don't have emotional intelligence , I can't tell you the times
24:56
you've had the most questions going on . Oh , it's not , and it's
24:58
so unattractive . Yeah , I'm like it's not . You
25:02
can learn something different . It's learn something different . It's not just
25:04
how you are . Nobody has to put up for a lack of
25:06
emotional intelligence when there's a thousand free youtube
25:09
videos . Watch the emotional
25:11
death . So , yeah , do
25:13
you want to do it or not ? Like , and I'm
25:15
not even going to pay for a therapist to do that like , go
25:17
watch best old banner . Or
25:19
go watch the emotions guy that
25:21
wrote I have the emotions code and
25:23
there's the ideal emotion book that's
25:26
written with david balance . There's so many free
25:28
resources out there . When someone's like , let's just sign
25:30
on , like that's a cop out right
25:32
, and you're not willing to go watch a couple
25:35
of 10 to 20 minute videos to help start
25:37
growing your emotional intelligence , then that's
25:39
a big , huge issue . Yeah , and then
25:41
when you wonder why your relationships are flourishing
25:43
, you know , double you back to what
25:46
are you doing to work or not work on yourself
25:48
. When I taught in the management class , I did it for five
25:50
years . I can't tell you how many times
25:52
it's not just about anger and anger being a secondary emotion
25:54
. It was y'all need better emotional
25:56
regulation skills , like so how do we start
25:59
teaching those ? And so sometimes it was amazing
26:01
to them how sometimes literally , I talk about
26:03
the word anger and emotional intelligence
26:06
. And so when you foster that in children
26:08
, right , they are so much more prepared and
26:11
you also teach them accountability . Yeah
26:13
, and , by the way , how to navigate relationships
26:16
so that either they don't stay in ones
26:18
that aren't healthy for them or that , if they stay
26:20
in them , they know how to have a capacity to work through hard
26:22
times , because there is a growing I
26:25
don't say it's just a generation , but there's a growing
26:27
trend and this
26:29
is too hard , I'm out . I'm like , listen , it is
26:31
not helpful for you to try to get out , but
26:33
can't tell you times I'd be like
26:36
we've tried very hard
26:38
, we're trying to exit this . So let's
26:40
just maybe try a couple things . And I'm still
26:42
right because , again , I think it's a great choice to live
26:44
something that doesn't help , but sometimes
26:46
that like this kind of got hard and
26:48
I don't want to do anything more . I'm like whoa , this
26:51
relationships are hard period , so if you're not
26:53
ready to do some work in them to also cultivate joy
26:55
, then we gotta grow your resilience and being
26:57
able to have a relationship , and
26:59
that includes a thousand percent having
27:02
emotional intelligence . Yeah , so
27:04
teaching our kids that was huge . That's
27:07
all said , yes . Well
27:09
, is there anything , ladies , before we close , that you
27:11
can ?
27:11
ask about your experience .
27:13
If you follow us through the listeners
27:16
that we have like , would you , if you had to say something
27:18
to them about this experience you've had , what
27:20
would ?
27:21
it be , I think there's just
27:23
like so much duality
27:25
in it that it is really hard
27:27
. And then there's been moments that I'm just
27:29
like excited
27:31
, relieved , like I just think it's such an emotional
27:34
, like such a range of emotions
27:36
in the experience and I I'm
27:39
just like riding the wave .
27:40
So I don't know if I I don't have like but
27:43
maybe that's it right , yeah , yeah , like be
27:45
ready to ride the wave . Yeah , you're not wrong
27:47
, it's not linear . Yeah , I
27:49
know right . Yeah , it's expect
27:51
, and even if I could have projected
27:54
and thought about all the experiences I thought I would have
27:56
had , it was harder
27:58
, yeah , I still would have done it . But
28:00
I do tell this to my couples that I counsel they're
28:13
like because people tell you the grass is up right on the other side . I'm like it's not , and divorce
28:15
is hard , but sometimes it's the best thing for you . So try everything you can , but it's , you know
28:17
, don't , don't kid yourself , but it's . It's tough , like it's . There's a difficult
28:19
piece of . There's just going to be a lot of emotions
28:21
to ride right our way
28:23
. So there's really
28:25
so much I want to say , but
28:27
something that keeps coming through is
28:30
you know we discussed
28:32
or you , you asked the question of how to get
28:34
back to your femininity , when
28:36
this life and the situations
28:39
that we find ourselves in going through divorce
28:41
or being single mothers puts
28:43
us so much in our masculine and
28:45
it got me thinking of how I do that and
28:48
self-care comes to mind . But I think
28:50
really , underneath it all is I
28:52
ask myself this question all the time . Why
28:55
am I bitter and I realized
28:57
recently that that was one of the
28:59
most transformative decisions
29:02
of my womanhood was to decide
29:04
I'm no longer going to be bitter
29:06
. And one
29:09
way to get out of my bitterness about
29:11
life and the life challenges is to find
29:14
create ceremony
29:17
around my grief and
29:19
around the cyclical
29:21
nature of being a woman which is
29:23
going through the death and the rebirth
29:26
process over and over
29:28
again . And when you look at our bodies
29:30
, I mean we're doing it every single month
29:32
? yeah , right , and so
29:34
also , yeah , I've . I've just
29:37
found that creating ceremony
29:39
around these cycles and these
29:41
processes in life
29:43
, these challenges , has brought
29:46
the beauty and it's taken me far from
29:48
bitterness and it's allowed me
29:50
to I don't know almost like find
29:54
the death as this exciting journey
29:57
where I'm like going into the darkness
29:59
. But I got this inner light
30:01
. So I'm like in this dark cave
30:03
, this under earth dark cave , and
30:06
it's cold and it's scary , there's
30:08
unknown , there's creatures , but
30:10
with this inner light I can like walk through
30:12
it and go deeper and deeper and I know
30:14
that , like in the descent of myself
30:16
and in my death and what I'm transmuting
30:19
, that there are like really beautiful treasures
30:21
in the depth of that
30:23
. Yeah , and it requires my
30:26
aloneness , it requires my
30:28
inner power and
30:30
that ceremony , going
30:33
through your descent into
30:35
yourself , to capture those jewels
30:38
that only exist in the darkness
30:40
alone , to then grab . You learn
30:43
so much in that grief , in that place
30:45
, and you grab them . Do you find
30:47
that that's what illuminates them ? The darkness
30:49
?
30:50
Yeah .
30:50
Through that refiner's fur , that struggle sometimes
30:53
, that darkness , that felt unsettling , then
30:55
you find that treasure and you go , okay
30:59
, wow , that was scary , I
31:01
didn't know where we were going to go , but look
31:03
at what I found , yeah , and then it's
31:06
such a growing and strengthening part of
31:08
you that grows your resilience . It grows
31:10
, grows , just grows you immensely
31:12
, yeah , and then also connects you , I think , ultimately
31:15
to not just your gifts and talents , but your strength
31:17
based essence , like
31:20
what makes us powerful as women , what makes us
31:22
powerful as individuals , what
31:24
makes us powerful as ourselves , and
31:27
that that moving forward and this is a huge
31:29
place , I think , for women to get that leave relationships
31:31
and then traverse the world and eventually find other relationships
31:34
. Because , again , I think we're being required
31:36
for connection . It's not if , if we need
31:38
connections , we do need them . So even if
31:40
we don't get in a relationship , I do think we need community and
31:42
people and connections and good friends . But
31:45
through that we're able to say then
31:47
I know me and when I get
31:49
into something that I want
31:51
it , I don't need it , I want
31:53
it , yeah I'm in a relationship right
31:55
now where there isn't anything that I need
31:58
monetarily from my
32:00
relationship and it's so bringing
32:02
power . I think is I just want
32:05
it . We want each other don't need
32:07
. I want to share our life together
32:09
and that feels . Feels
32:11
so good that and it feels
32:13
on a way , so much safer because
32:16
I feel like
32:18
I could leave it if I needed to . It's
32:21
none of my choice to stay as someone so
32:23
powerful choose
32:25
it every day yeah , it's awesome , we're choosing each
32:27
other every day . Yeah , that's
32:29
how he was about too . He could , he could leave it . I
32:31
remember one time he told me he's like you're like a
32:34
broken stem . And then I'm
32:36
here and I was like hold on a sec . No
32:38
one can break you . We're
32:41
the wild . You know him . I was like
32:43
you're a wild stallion , regardless . He's like . I
32:45
said let me just tell you . I said you're that stallion that
32:47
doesn't have to have a bridle or a halter
32:49
. It's like the black stallion that lets you ride it . Because
32:52
it lets you . It's never
32:54
going to be tame . He
32:57
was like I really don't like that one . I
32:59
was like you're no stallion caught in a pen , dude . I was like you choose this every
33:02
day and you can unchoose it . I said I know you
33:04
have choices . I said and so it speaks
33:06
to your nature , you
33:08
choose this every day because you're still wild and
33:11
you want this . So I recognize
33:13
that you've done more things than half . There's
33:16
so many other good topics I know
33:18
. That's why I'm in
33:20
this conversation . Keep
33:22
doing this . Oh , my goodness . Thank you so
33:24
much for being vulnerable . Thank you so much for being vulnerable . Thank
33:26
you so much for sharing for us . We want to be a voice that when people
33:28
listen to this they go that that
33:31
helped me , or wow , that was insightful , or
33:33
wow that resonated with me , that
33:36
spoke to me . It's just beautiful to see your
33:38
guys's personalities and how they just show up
33:40
in your willingness to . You could just see the emotion
33:43
in your essence , in your
33:45
eyes . It's so authentic and I appreciate that
33:47
and
33:49
I want to say you're both in business
33:52
, you have things that you're doing , your initiatives
33:54
, and if you want people to contact
33:56
you , how like , how could
33:58
they contact you , whether it's to reach
34:01
out for support or to your
34:03
therapy or retreat ? Sign house from you like you're
34:05
business women . You're you're business women
34:07
, you're doing your thing . Like , how can people
34:09
get in ?
34:09
touch with you , jen . I'm probably just on Instagram it's
34:12
like the best way to find me , so it's just Danielle
34:14
D-A-N-I-E-L-L-E-M
34:17
and then Mira M-I-A-R-A
34:19
Cool .
34:21
Cool . Well , tandy , for sure , yeah , and
34:30
I'm definitely in the construction phase of things
34:32
, but I'd love to foster new connections where that resonates
34:34
. So I think Instagram is a great way to
34:37
Vive Rose . So , v-i-v-e dot , r-o-s-e , and
34:40
, yeah , I hope to soon start
34:43
my work in the integrated wellness scene
34:45
, bringing in the physical health , the
34:48
emotional , the creative
34:51
and the spiritual . Nice
34:53
, yeah , aka powerful women
34:55
, yeah , stay tuned , absolutely
34:57
, absolutely , yeah , thank
34:59
you for inviting me .
35:01
Thank you for joining us on unscripted . I'm
35:03
jenny pool and I'm janine barandi
35:05
. We hope you found today's
35:07
discussion as inspiring and insightful as we
35:09
did . If you have any questions , comments
35:12
or stories you'd like to share , we'd love to hear
35:14
from you . Connect with me on Instagram
35:16
at the Acupuncturist and you'll find
35:18
me on social media at MEND
35:20
Counseling Center .
35:22
Until next time , remember that
35:24
the best gift you can give to those you love
35:26
is the gift of your own good health .
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