0:00

Welcome back to Unscripted

0:02

. In this episode , we continue

0:04

our conversation about somatics and

0:06

specifically dive a little deeper

0:08

into EMDR and brain

0:10

spotting . Jenny has

0:12

a decade of experience applying

0:15

these techniques in a clinical setting and

0:17

this can really help you understand if this type

0:19

of therapy is right for you . So stick around

0:21

and enjoy . Welcome

0:25

to Unscripted , your guide

0:27

to discovering the various options available

0:30

to you in the integrated and collaborative

0:32

medicine space . I'm Janine Barandi

0:34

and I've been treating patients with acupuncture

0:37

for 10 years .

0:38

And I'm Jenny Poole . I'm a trauma specialist

0:40

and somatic therapist with a passion for psychedelic

0:43

assisted psychotherapy . The objective of

0:45

our podcast is to explore

0:47

the various care options available . Through

0:49

our years of practice , we've found that different modalities

0:52

can complement each other and conventional

0:54

medicine .

0:55

We hope our conversations resonate and

0:57

help you find the right tools and specialists

0:59

for your unique needs .

1:01

We believe in an advanced care model where the doctor

1:03

is not the only expert . We encourage you

1:06

to embrace a mindset where your practitioners are

1:08

your teammates , who ultimately empower you

1:10

to take control of your health .

1:11

As with every episode , this is not intended

1:13

to act as medical advice and no

1:16

patient-practitioner relationship is formed from

1:18

subscribing or tuning in .

1:21

Well , and here's the thing , people ask me well , what if

1:23

I can't find somebody like

1:25

you that does body work and that also does

1:27

some of this somatic work and sometimes it's hands-on

1:29

work . I said , well , there is an mdr brain

1:31

spot and there is neuro dynamic

1:34

breath work . There are so many different

1:36

ways to mine releasing

1:39

somatically . I went to a somatic conference

1:41

from the embodied lab . Dr scott lyons hosts

1:44

it , and his way of unwinding

1:46

was using a small yoga ball and

1:48

getting connected with the body and using

1:51

a lot of like . I'm feeling

1:53

this yoga ball in my body and

1:55

now I'm unwinding it . There was another

1:57

gal that got up that was talking

1:59

about . She ended up working with actors and

2:02

people that were acting and singing and it was unwinding

2:04

the fascia with very , very gentle

2:07

touch in the abdomen so that the diaphragm

2:09

could now open up and have more

2:11

freedom to be able to sing

2:14

louder , sing better , have clear notes it

2:16

was you know , as I sat there , I

2:19

was like there's a hundred different ways to do this

2:21

, but

2:25

if you're not , if you're not approaching , unwinding distress and I'll say , say this too it's not

2:27

just trauma , because I work with a lot of people that are really just stressed out

2:29

yeah , how do we reclaim equilibrium , how

2:31

do we reclaim safety in the nervous system

2:33

? That sometimes has nothing to do with something traumatic

2:36

that happened . Yeah , life is just so stressful

2:38

and I'm so much anxiety and I just can't . I

2:40

can't keep up . It's like okay , then

2:42

let's reclaim safety in your nervous system . And

2:45

that's what somatics are about too is , how do we help

2:47

the body go we have more equilibrium

2:49

and safety , so that we have more room

2:51

on our bandwidth , so that , even if stressors are there

2:54

, we now have the bandwidth to manage

2:56

them versus our thresholds being blown .

2:59

Do you have something that you give to your patients

3:01

that will allow them to

3:03

, like you know , know

3:05

if they find themselves in a stressful situation

3:08

? Do you have something you give them

3:10

that's like a time out

3:12

for them , where they can just kind of sit at their

3:14

desk or like

3:16

leave the room from where their kids

3:19

are arguing ?

3:20

or you know , yes , there's , there's so

3:22

many . Let me give you a few , because one

3:24

that's really simple , that we also organically

3:27

and sometimes naturally do , is

3:29

coming up by the temples , take

3:32

both hands and then and

3:34

people do this already when they're like , oh , my hand's

3:36

hurting , but see like how I'm just gently

3:39

, in very small circles , the temple

3:41

, you know , and this is connected to

3:43

the temporal lobe and just relieving pressure

3:45

. So you start to relieve tension

3:48

and pressure in the body and you start to

3:50

make space in

3:52

the body for whatever can

3:54

be better processed . So when people are feeling

3:56

that much tension and they're overwhelmed , the

3:58

body's losing room right

4:00

, the thresholds are getting too full . So

4:03

sometimes very small things , you can come

4:05

in by the right here , by the sinuses

4:07

. It's very simple . Okay , we get a lot of

4:09

tension . Surprisingly , in our face there's so many muscles

4:12

and I have them . Go out here , hit

4:14

the arc of the cheekbones and

4:16

come down the jaw and

4:20

take a deep breath , and

4:23

the and and this is one thing that people get

4:25

really inhibited by Loud breathing is

4:27

actually the louder that you be , the more that you can release

4:29

, especially if you can get the vocal cords to

4:32

vibrate . So sometimes I'll tell someone

4:34

. Hey , take a deep breath and let's start processing

4:36

and resourcing and helping your body decompress

4:39

, and they'll go .

4:40

Have you seen any of the studies they've done on

4:43

OM ?

4:44

Yes , OM

4:48

is the universal sound right and it vibrates the vocal cords . So you're creating

4:50

, you're literally pushing energy and

4:52

and what I would call emotional debris and

4:54

psychic debris and energetic debris out of your

4:56

body , if you can like

5:00

, so those big things are , like

5:03

you can , you're creating a vibration

5:05

which , by the way , mimics those

5:07

vibrations and the tremorings that the

5:09

body , when it's looking to reclaim equilibrium , wants

5:12

to shake some of this stuff off . And

5:14

so , yeah , so when you create these tension

5:16

releases , right , even this movement

5:18

, you're , you're creating movement . Now let me tell

5:21

you an un , I think sometimes an untapped

5:23

resource , because most people and

5:26

and sometimes it's crazy how much we care about what other

5:28

people think like , well , I can't just like , do this anywhere

5:30

. I'm like , well , you kind of can , it's tapping

5:32

. Yeah , tapping sends

5:35

a signal to the amygdala that , even

5:37

though there might be a stressor here , that we

5:39

can work through it and that we're safe and that we're

5:41

okay and

5:45

that we're safe and that we're okay . And so I'll tell people and and

5:47

if you look at the people who like do official tapping as a modality , there's a , there's a

5:49

, there's a protocol of like where you know where you tap

5:51

here here . But sometimes people like , oh

5:53

my gosh , I'm out of order and this and that . So sometimes I just tell

5:55

people , just start doing something

5:57

to connect to what's

6:00

happening in the emotional body , yeah

6:02

, to your physical , and tapping

6:04

does that . And if we tap in

6:06

heart , center , right . This

6:08

is where we feel and we

6:10

give out , like we give out our feelings and

6:12

we take in our feelings . A lot of that happens in

6:15

heart center .

6:17

These are all acupuncture points too , and these are

6:19

so you've got this central line that goes up

6:21

the center and then you've got this line

6:24

that traverses just lateral to

6:26

the center of the body . It's the kidney

6:29

meridian and these are your spirit

6:31

points . These are notoriously known in

6:34

acupuncture as your spirit points and these are

6:36

all about making

6:38

your way through the

6:40

fight , like going into the darkest

6:43

of days and being able to reemeremerge

6:46

and come out and and see

6:48

the forest for the trees and so

6:50

a lot of people , clinically , when they come

6:52

in , you know they , I do find that they'll

6:55

, they , they touch themselves here

6:57

and I'm like , wow , you know where

6:59

is it ? Let's palpate here and

7:01

let's find and see where there's tenderness

7:04

and where there's reaction . And

7:06

sometimes man , people will just cry

7:08

and I'm like , okay , that's

7:11

where we need to be .

7:13

Let's go find the spirit of that point

7:15

, because that's going to speak to you right

7:17

now , and that's why I tell people there are two

7:19

places that you only ever tap , because

7:22

you're trying to process

7:24

and digest and work through any emotional debris

7:26

that's coming up . It will either be heart , center , throat

7:29

, because we get a lot bound in here . We're either

7:31

saying what we need to say , we're not saying what we need to say . Right

7:34

, there's a lot of energy that can get congested

7:36

, emotional debris that can get congested in the throat or

7:39

in the eyes , because this is where we cry

7:41

so if we can , just tap a little bit

7:43

around the eyes and just and I always tell

7:45

people add in

7:47

some deep breaths because because somatic

7:49

breathing is like a big broom that

7:51

you can just for free Okay

7:54

, Come in , it is

7:56

sweet and

7:59

out all of that

8:01

emotional debris that you're gathering , that now you're connected

8:03

to , that you're processing , because because

8:10

it's about resourcing how we process and digest rather than storing and

8:12

stuffing yeah , I love that you said that outlets .

8:13

they're like your breath is the

8:15

most bioavailable resource

8:17

that you have . It's still free , it's the freest

8:19

thing we do and it's so powerful

8:22

for somatics to hyper

8:24

saturate your body with oxygen

8:26

and breathe into your lungs like really

8:28

fully . Just

8:31

expand your lungs and hold it there for

8:33

a minute and allow it to slowly

8:36

escape , and do that just a couple of times

8:38

. You don't need to tap , you don't need to do

8:41

anything to give

8:43

yourself a really healthy dose of medicine

8:46

, just breathe . But that's why breathing Breathe

8:48

big and deep . It is going to change

8:50

your biochemistry , I promise .

8:52

Well , and that's why breathing has become so

8:55

much more popular . You're starting to hear so much more

8:57

about somatic breath . Come do my somatic

8:59

breath workshop , come do yoga , and then we're going

9:01

to have a special person that has

9:03

learned somatic breathing to come in and

9:05

because it really is now

9:08

showing that it's a , it's a great way to

9:10

move psychic debris , emotional

9:12

emotional debris and energetic

9:14

debris out of the body again , I think of it as a big room

9:17

and I'll say that a lot to my clients . I

9:19

want you to start taking some big , deep breaths and

9:21

and at times people aren't used to breathing that way , so

9:23

they'll breathe very shallowly like , so

9:26

I'll breathe with them . Come on , match my breath . You're

9:29

safe in here you can be loud , you can be expressive

9:32

. Let's move some of this energy out . It's like taking

9:34

a little sweep to try and get . It's like taking a little sweep to try and get this stuff

9:36

out , or a big sweep to try and get this stuff out

9:38

. And again I will say this it's

9:43

not us that's healing people . We're holding a

9:45

space so that we can open the door for

9:48

the vessel to heal itself .

9:50

Yes , and you'll find

9:52

your medicine amongst all

9:54

of the different things that are available . If

9:57

it's breath work , awesome . If it's somatics

9:59

, awesome . If it's acupuncture right

10:01

on , there's like a thousand modalities , craniosacral

10:04

, there's just so much room for

10:06

everyone to play .

10:07

Well , even yoga was healing

10:09

. That's when Bessel's research

10:12

was around , even just how yoga helped

10:14

veterans overcome PTSD . It

10:17

wasn't top therapy that was really helping them . It was once they got the body

10:20

doing these movements

10:22

and these poses and holding and breathing

10:24

. Because with yoga comes all the pranayama

10:27

breathing and all that different stuff . So , yeah , it

10:29

is interesting that once you get movement involved

10:31

and semantics involved now you're

10:33

really helping the collective yeah

10:36

, so yeah heal . I'll say a little

10:38

bit about brain spotting . It's a modality that I still

10:40

find emdr is really well

10:42

known . If you hear someone say in vr , there

10:45

may be still some people for sure that don't know about emdr

10:47

I movement repro

10:50

em I movement , desensitization

10:54

and reprocessing . Good job

10:56

okay , yes , so brain spotting

10:58

is a is similar where it utilizes

11:00

the eye movement and dr

11:02

grand who , david grand , who developed

11:04

brain spotting did ian dar for two decades to

11:07

this day that man would say ian

11:09

dar is a beautiful modality . What he found

11:11

is that after processing and he had clients

11:13

that were with him for a while he had very like serious

11:15

professional athletes that were having performance

11:18

issues in their , in their athletic

11:20

endeavors , and these are people that when you're

11:22

in the one percent of athletic performance you

11:24

don't have a whole margin of error

11:27

. Yeah , or you just lose the gold or

11:29

you're now no longer competitive in the field

11:31

. So he's helping these really competitive

11:33

athletes kind of overcome some of the performance

11:35

blocks that were connected to

11:37

the traumas they experienced . And so he's gotten so far

11:40

with EMDR and I think it's again a beautiful

11:42

modality . But he found that with

11:44

brain spots that people would hold them

11:46

as he was talking . Then he

11:48

started to notice so while he was using the eye

11:51

movement that comes with brain spotting or

11:53

I mean EMDR with brain spotting or I mean EMDR With brain spotting you

11:55

can get really surgical and specific . So brain

11:57

spotting , I think , becomes a more

11:59

fluid . So EMDR

12:02

is great for you know , protocol one

12:04

, protocol two , instead , brain spotting

12:06

I'm not as bound to those steps and

12:08

so I can process , sometimes very surgically

12:10

, and then I can pull out so I can really manage window

12:12

of tolerance well . And again , I'm not saying saying the emdr

12:14

doesn't , it's just that I love using

12:17

brain spotting because I think it's so

12:19

flexible , for for me

12:21

, when I'm with my clients and I'm processing

12:23

trauma and they sometimes need

12:25

to now stop and get out , and so we

12:27

just the spot that they were holding , that

12:30

they were activated in , they just break

12:32

and come back to being grounded and

12:34

then we can really manage window of tolerance

12:36

well and we can keep mining whenever

12:39

it came back in that activation . And you guys

12:41

can all do this . If you ask them to add

12:43

what's your favorite Christmas , or what was

12:45

your favorite holiday that you can remember having , or what was

12:47

one of your favorite summers where

12:50

you went to the beach , or you just ask

12:52

them to remember something , always

12:55

, if not almost always , always you're going

12:57

to see someone immediately ship their

12:59

eyes and start accessing

13:02

their short-term memory and their long-term memory . For

13:04

memories and that is what brain spotting

13:06

is is that where you look

13:09

can be connected to how you feel

13:11

and if something distressing happened to you , we

13:13

can find that spot where the body's doing

13:15

this . The nervous system

13:17

doesn't feel safe and

13:23

we can very gently and carefully encapsulate that and then discharge it from the body .

13:26

I saw a therapist a number of years ago

13:28

and

13:33

I was kind of in a bad

13:35

place with a relationship and

13:37

it was the first time I had EMDR and

13:40

and I remember doing

13:42

the EMDR and I was like , yeah , I kind

13:44

of felt a little bit better . And

13:47

she did this one session . She did

13:49

brain spotting with me and

13:52

we just started talking about something super

13:54

benign and she drew attention

13:56

to the fact that I was

13:58

looking at an image like a place

14:00

on the picture on the wall over there , and then I would

14:02

dart over to the door and

14:04

then I went over here when

14:07

something was like really

14:09

difficult for me to talk about . She said what's over

14:11

there ? And she drew attention . She was

14:13

like I want you to understand what I'm doing here , absolutely

14:16

, that you have a safe place over here

14:18

because you're always smiling and you're happy , you're

14:20

remembering some delightful

14:23

something when you're looking over here and

14:25

over there , you're kind of thinking about

14:27

something , but when you go over there you

14:30

get dark . There's something

14:33

over there . Yeah , let's talk

14:35

about what's over there and I need you

14:37

to keep looking at it . And

14:40

it was really powerful and I'll tell you what it did , because I think

14:42

that a lot of us get this sense of

14:44

like I'm choking or something

14:46

stuck in my throat . I have this thing in my throat and I

14:48

have plenty of patients that come and tell

14:51

me like I have this sensation that

14:53

something is in my throat or I am choking , or

14:55

like I can't get it out , or

14:57

like I've been to the doctor , I've had an endoscopy

14:59

, I've had all the scans , nothing is wrong

15:01

with me . Well , this is what we

15:03

call chief limb . It's

15:06

something that's just energy

15:08

that gets stuck here . And

15:17

because we haven't been able to say what we need to say , okay , and in this relationship true to

15:19

form , I was not in a position where I could actually speak my truth

15:21

anymore . It was became really kind

15:23

of frightening . But in

15:25

that session I

15:29

walked away thinking this

15:33

is crazy . I don't know what

15:35

she thinks she's doing . But

15:37

and it wasn't you , it wasn't you , I

15:41

love that you did brain spotting . Before you found me , I

15:43

did brain spotting before I found . Jen

15:45

. But

15:48

the next day I woke up and

15:50

and , guys , I've had this experience

15:52

throughout my life . As a kid , I

15:54

learned I came by this honestly

15:56

, because I had to stay quiet , because it was safe

15:58

for me to stay quiet in some in

16:01

some places . So this became

16:03

this is a pattern for me and then

16:05

it showed up in this relationship and after

16:07

this brain spotting session I

16:10

woke up the next day and it was 80%

16:12

gone and I was like that

16:16

never happens . Usually takes months

16:18

for me to crawl my

16:20

way out of this crisis mode and

16:23

regain regulation and

16:25

as much trauma training

16:27

as I had done up until that point . I

16:29

knew exactly what was happening . It

16:32

worked . It got me out and

16:34

by the next day it was completely gone me

16:40

. It worked , it got me out and by the next day it

16:42

was completely gone , and it was . It was so much more powerful for me than emdr and I'm

16:44

not saying that emdr wasn't effective

16:46

, but damn

16:48

, it was fast

16:51

and I felt better yeah

16:53

and it speaks the power of somatic

16:55

work .

16:55

Yeah , Doing some somatic work and really

16:57

understanding that there was something that

17:00

was connected , that the eye was picking up

17:02

, connected to what was happening in the collective

17:04

body . Yeah , when people say the eyes are the window

17:06

to the soul , after working

17:08

on thousands of bodies and doing thousands

17:11

of sessions of mental therapy , there is

17:13

truth to that is that even if

17:15

I never did any hands-on work ever , ever , ever

17:17

, I could solely help people heal

17:20

with somatic breathing and brain

17:22

spawning and there's something that has to do EMDR

17:24

with utilizing the eye , because you

17:27

can and again , you can really manage

17:29

window of tolerance and you can pull people

17:31

out of it , break the gaze and can get

17:33

them back to regrounded and saying , hey , we don't

17:35

have to mind that anymore , we can mind that later , once

17:37

you're reclaiming safety in your body . But

17:40

isn't that interesting that it would take usually months

17:42

, because you had a somatic experience

17:44

and you're able to unearth that and discharge it

17:47

. It was that now the body could recover

17:49

and reclaim safety

17:51

quicker . And that's what the three giants

17:53

I know there are more giants out there , but I will

17:55

just the ones that I have learned so much

17:57

from the most and have built so much of what I

17:59

do Gabor

18:05

, monte Bessel , van der Kolk , peter Levine they will say that a somatic experience helps

18:07

move the needle on the body , reclaiming safety and the body , reclaiming equilibrium

18:10

. And when I say body , I mean your mental body , your

18:12

emotional body and your physical body , because

18:14

they are all cohesive together

18:16

and they want freedom

18:19

and equilibrium and safety . And so it's

18:21

the name of the game when you're trying to help

18:23

the nervous system get out of fight or flight or freeze

18:26

is I'm

18:28

safe today . Yeah , I wasn't safe

18:30

then , but I'm safe today and I can

18:32

believe it . I can believe

18:34

that I'm safe and that and

18:36

that , and that the body , then the vessel , can return

18:38

to equilibrium . And the body being

18:40

such an intuitive vessel , if

18:42

you open a door for it to heal , it

18:45

is as a self-healing vessel , and

18:48

I've seen it too many times it will . You

18:51

just create the doorway for healing and when

18:53

somebody's ready , they will then heal and

18:55

they will come up with a lot of their own things

18:58

that they need to mine and heal from and

19:00

then work out and then let the body even

19:02

to . Even just today , it

19:05

was like hey , where do you feel that in your body ? So that while

19:07

we're on one , like , let your body unwind

19:09

, like , move that next side , the side

19:11

, move those shoulders back and forward , and

19:13

sometimes people don't know . Well , I just don't know . Well

19:16

, let's just , I allow my body to unwind

19:18

, I bring it to my conscious awareness that which can be repaired

19:20

and healed and that which can unwind , and

19:22

so we can mechanically start unwinding , but inevitably

19:25

and I've never seen this not do it people

19:27

start to unwind however they want . So you

19:29

start then with even what is a mechanical

19:31

process . Well , let mechanical process . Well , let's just let your body start with winding

19:34

. Yeah , move your neck side to side five to six

19:36

times , take a couple deep

19:38

breaths , move those shoulders up and down

19:40

, start moving your and

19:42

then , without me saying anything else , they start to just

19:44

put their bodies on wind . Yeah , because

19:47

the body wants , as an intuitive

19:49

vessel , it wants to , it wants to

19:51

be in a place of equilibrium , it wants to reclaim this

19:53

and I think that's why people love ecstatic

19:55

dance and yoga booty yoga

19:57

, yes , booty yoga , just mood .

19:59

You're just shaken and you're pounding and you're

20:01

like you're shouting and you're just you're

20:03

doing all the things your body actually

20:06

does want to do and it's so . It's

20:08

such a powerful release and

20:10

you're not having to do it in such a

20:12

way that you know you're judging

20:14

yourself and looking weird to the people

20:16

around you . So those those like yoga

20:19

, that's a modality , that is that's

20:21

medicine dance .

20:23

Yeah , people will connect to

20:25

what resonates

20:27

with them , and I have a lot of people that love to do yoga . I

20:29

have a lot of people that would rather go to their dance

20:31

class . I have people that just

20:34

kind of want to sit and shake it out , or I have I have some people that love tapping

20:36

or that just kind of want to sit and shake it out . Or I have I have some people that love tapping or

20:38

that just grab one of their favorite essential

20:40

oils because , again , you're creating a sensory experience

20:43

, right , so you're , you're recruiting and resourcing

20:45

your senses to help create calm

20:48

and you're just breathing , asking

20:51

my body to reclaim safety , asking my body to

20:53

slough off any and all emotional debris , energetic

20:55

debris , and reclaim equilibrium . And

20:58

you can do that in so many different ways , and

21:00

that's why I think somatic therapy is

21:02

the future of mental health and also

21:04

physical health in the medical community

21:07

too is the more that we embrace somatics

21:10

, the more that you're going to see people deeply heal

21:12

. And

21:14

it's interesting because this is this is coming

21:16

out there . So , the holistic psychologist , dr

21:18

Nicole Perel she wrote a couple of great books

21:21

, she has a really great platform

21:23

and one of the things that she's really starting to get

21:25

more vocal about , which I think is beautiful . Is that , these

21:27

unknown medical issues she's like

21:29

? If you don't think that there's some kind of psychosomatic

21:32

connection , that

21:39

it's not just these bizarre medical abnormalities and just mysteries , is

21:41

that there is something happening in the body and oftentimes it has to do with

21:43

nature , nurture . What has happened to

21:45

us ? What are our experiences in life ? How

21:47

many times have we felt suffocated

21:50

or unsafe or we've had trauma

21:52

where we're just not happy , and we've dealt

21:54

with a lot of anxiety or depression Like those

21:56

things will will create . If you

21:58

look at the scales of health , yeah

22:00

, it's not just what's happening to us

22:02

physically that we put a lot of weight in . It's

22:04

what's happening to us mentally and emotionally as well

22:07

. And that's what I love about somatic therapy

22:09

and somatics is that it's starting to bring

22:11

in this mind-body connection where we say

22:13

, hey , hey , from the bottom up , we're

22:15

going to help the vessel heal

22:17

, so that what's happening in the brain and the mind

22:19

and the mental body can also

22:22

now heal in the somatic body

22:24

, because the somatic imprint oftentimes

22:26

is deeper than just what's happening

22:28

in the mental body . It's

22:30

what's being stored in our very

22:33

cells of our body , in the very fascia of our

22:35

body right .

22:36

I have 10 million things that I want to say

22:38

about all those things you just said . So

22:41

there's one thing that I was left with

22:43

in the wake of my my really powerful

22:45

brain spotting session that day , and

22:48

that is that my

22:51

physiological phenomena

22:53

had was was at bay for

22:56

the moment . I was still very

22:58

much aware of the

23:00

pattern and the reality of

23:03

my problem at the time

23:05

and I had

23:07

better presence

23:09

of mind to assess

23:12

and manage it , and

23:15

and it and I was in such

23:17

a better place because my body

23:19

felt better and that's a little

23:21

bit of the collaborative work

23:24

that we do is

23:26

I will say to my patients all

23:28

the time like , let's

23:30

get your body feeling better , because if you're

23:32

feeling better in able to do some

23:34

of the really difficult

23:41

, deep work on the

23:43

emotional things that have happened , cause

23:45

now you have the bandwidth , now you have the bandwidth to

23:47

do it and and you don't and you

23:50

feel better inside of your vessel . And

23:52

that's really important is

23:54

to make sure that that you

23:56

have those resources in your mind

23:58

, in your heart , because

24:01

if you walk into an office and

24:03

you haven't been sleeping well and you're

24:05

drinking alcohol to cope , and

24:09

you've got an angry boss because

24:11

maybe you're not performing the way that

24:14

he or she thinks you should , you've got

24:16

all these confounding factors that's

24:18

going to be really , really difficult for you to dive

24:20

in and do the deep work and deep work it's

24:23

just screaming

24:25

to be done , and it's the hardest

24:27

decision to make sometimes is to say

24:29

I'm going to dive in , I'm going to do

24:31

that deep work , but it's

24:33

a beautiful reality on the other

24:35

side of it yeah absolutely . You do

24:38

get to feel better long term with

24:41

it a thousand percent .

24:42

I will say this too , because I want to bring this up , because I think it's

24:45

important for people to understand what becomes a

24:47

healing modality can also become

24:49

something that's not healing , depending on the

24:51

timing and the way that it's used right

24:54

. So even something like mdr

24:56

brain spotting or any kind

24:58

of somatic therapy can also like if any

25:00

kind of trauma therapy has the potential to re-injure

25:03

somebody in their trauma . If

25:06

you don't manage window of tolerance Because

25:08

again you're trying to

25:10

maintain . You're trying to create healing

25:12

and safety . So if you compromise safety

25:14

, so there has to be an exposure and a threshold

25:17

point that you eventually go and

25:19

we're done . Because if we push that threshold

25:21

now we're in injury territory

25:24

rather than healing and repair territory . So

25:26

it's one thing to push somebody's threshold

25:28

to help create some healing , repairing and having to do

25:31

sometimes things in the memory

25:33

system that are distressful only to the point

25:35

that they can manage that before we return

25:37

to grounding and safety , so that then on another

25:39

day or another time we can then continue to

25:41

do that . You blow people's bandwidths

25:43

, you blow people's thresholds , no

25:46

matter how healing you're trying to be . You're now and

25:48

what's creating the injury right ? So I'm going to say

25:50

this because cold therapy and cold training

25:52

right now is huge like cold plunges

25:54

, and as a somebody

25:57

who does structural body work and somebody who's mental

25:59

health therapy , I love the idea

26:01

of cold therapy and cold training

26:03

. From a physiological standpoint , vascular

26:05

constriction helps reduce inflammation in the body

26:07

. If you have an injury , cold therapy

26:10

combined at times offsetting , you know , cold

26:12

therapy hop that . We're helping heal

26:14

the tissues through these things . From a mental

26:16

health standpoint , cold therapy you're

26:19

purposely putting yourself in distress

26:21

and staying in it , but

26:23

there's not a bear coming trying to kill you . It's more like

26:25

I'm choosing this distress . It's uncomfortable

26:27

but I'm going to stay in it . I'm going to grow

26:29

my thresholds . Yeah , that's beautiful

26:31

, but if you're in fight or flight and

26:33

your system's distressed and you then go cold

26:36

plunge or do cold showers or whatever , cold

26:38

therapy now becomes something that's injuring your system

26:40

, it's

26:45

not creating safety in the system . You already had blown your thresholds , so you can't grow them

26:47

right now , because now you're just a part of blowing them . And I do think

26:49

it's important for people to understand

26:52

that . Use those modalities

26:54

for what they're meant to be , which is healing and

26:56

repair . And if you're trying to grow your thresholds , what you're trying

26:58

to grow is resilience . If your thresholds

27:00

are already blown because your life right now

27:03

is super stressful and you're

27:05

in a fight or flight response , you're pumping out too

27:07

much cortisol , cold training is going to be the

27:09

last thing your body is going to

27:11

get any kind of benefit from , because it's going to be only

27:13

a part of the thing that keeps it stressed out

27:15

. It's the same thing with walking and running . You

27:18

know some of it's like all the things in exercise

27:20

, but if they're in a stress response , sometimes really

27:22

hard , exercise actually just makes their

27:25

cortisol stress worse . So

27:32

I'm going to just use that example as a part of blanking around a lot of modalities . Is

27:34

that , if not used well and properly and there's not

27:36

attunement involved , that

27:38

you can actually then become now

27:41

a part of the problem rather than

27:43

hold a human space .

27:43

Yes , and that

27:45

is one of the reasons I love

27:48

my modality so much , is

27:50

it actually does help to really

27:54

bring the person down into a

27:56

rest and digest . Response Veda , yeah

27:58

, and like

28:00

a reliable one . Like , hey , let's recover

28:03

your physical body from some of the stress

28:05

you've been in , let's . It's a practice

28:07

, right . You come back week after week and you're

28:09

finally like you're in the presence

28:12

of an excitatory stimulus with all those

28:14

little needles . They're like your body's kind of like

28:16

ah we're , we're injured , we have all

28:18

these stab wounds run away . But no

28:20

, like you're , you're

28:26

relaxed and you're warm and you're safe and the music is nice and the room

28:28

is dark and you're falling asleep . And so you're starting to train your body that a stressful

28:30

stimulus doesn't have to mean

28:32

you got to run away . It stressful

28:35

stimulus is now like . Is

28:38

now like okay , I'm training myself to manage

28:40

stress and pain better

28:43

. Okay , now I

28:45

can do some deeper work

28:47

. It's the yin

28:49

and yang , it's the balance between

28:51

activity and

28:53

rest , and that yin

28:56

time balance is so incredibly

28:58

important for restoration and

29:01

and being able to be

29:03

present to some

29:05

of the deeper work that is

29:07

necessary to , you

29:10

know , fulfill that , that peace

29:12

and that tranquility that we aim

29:14

to have in life .

29:16

Yeah , I remember being on your table

29:18

one time and I remember

29:20

having the needles in , really getting to these deep

29:22

data states and being

29:25

really frustrated because my body was um

29:27

, just wasn't as healthy as I wanted it to be and I

29:29

was in a stress response , as you know , because at that time

29:31

in my life , like when I first met you , I

29:33

I came to jean initially because a colleague

29:36

had been like you have some leftover

29:39

respiratory distress from covid and

29:41

so go see her and get some Chinese herbs . And then , after

29:43

talking to her , I was like , can you fit me in ? I

29:45

would like to come see you . And so , as I'm

29:47

sitting on the table , it finally hit me . I was like it's

29:49

like sometimes the plumber that doesn't do their own plumbing . I'm

29:51

like I am a trauma therapist with somatic

29:54

therapy and I have been sitting in

29:56

fight or flight and I'm actually

29:58

letting my body have respite . And this is the way

30:01

that I start . Healing Isn't to keep doing

30:04

, it's to let my body reclaim safety and

30:06

equilibrium and reduce stress

30:08

. But it was because I can say that all day long

30:10

for the people to help them . But it was like this visceral

30:12

experience in my body where I felt just

30:15

how tired it was , yeah , just

30:17

how depleted it was , because I made

30:19

myself be so still and I was still

30:22

and I was like wow

30:24

, yeah , this

30:26

is need some help

30:28

it's the biggest medicine , sometimes

30:31

just being still and I thought , okay , I need to

30:33

do more of this where I reduce

30:35

the spider flight response in

30:37

my body so that it actually can take

30:39

advantage of the healing that I'm trying

30:41

to do . Because even exercise

30:44

it , if my heart rate got higher

30:46

than a certain level , like the very thing that was trying to help

30:48

like be healthy for me , was now a part

30:50

of my stress , like , yeah , I walked

30:52

too fast , that's how depleted I was

30:55

, and so finally , once I stopped being so depleted

30:57

, got myself out of flight , I

30:59

was able to now start absorbing the

31:02

healing that comes from the modalities that

31:04

we put on board , even things as simple as nutrition

31:06

and exercise . So that's

31:08

my thing about somatics and also

31:11

any modality that you use , is that

31:13

it needs to be used in a way

31:15

that that helps create healing , because

31:17

so many people will muscle through things like I asked

31:19

, I had one no pain no gain

31:22

five minutes in the cold and

31:24

I'm like you're the last person right now that should be doing

31:26

cold therapy . Give us get your body

31:28

out of the stress response and then do cold therapy

31:30

. You're like making my job harder . So you

31:33

know , I think it's . It's worth saying is that

31:35

is that those things at times really need

31:37

to be thoughtfully paced . At times it's not

31:39

no never , but it's going . Hey , is this ? You

31:42

know , I've even had a client that that had too

31:44

much brain spotting before they came to

31:46

me and yeah , and so the idea of brain

31:48

spotting was like , because it was just too much

31:50

, too fast and londo of tolerance wasn't honored

31:52

, and so it was like , no , that's the thing that I

31:55

don't . That didn't make me feel safe . Right to

31:57

really recalibrate that so that eventually

31:59

something like that will now be a safe experience

32:02

. Yeah , yeah . There's

32:04

so much more to talk

32:06

about , so we'll have a part two . Yeah

32:09

, thank you guys for tuning in . We have a

32:11

lot to share and say and we appreciate

32:13

the audience that's listening

32:15

, yep .

32:16

Absolutely . If you have questions about

32:18

anything we've talked about this evening

32:20

, please drop them below in

32:23

the comments and tell us

32:25

what you want to know more

32:27

about with this

32:29

topic or other topics . Yeah , I'd

32:31

love to dive into psychedelics

32:33

and how people are using psychedelics

32:36

to kind of dampen

32:38

the space around

32:40

opening up and being vulnerable

32:43

about their mental

32:45

health , and I think that's actually something

32:47

that might help me because I'm just like

32:49

no , we're not going there .

32:51

When you look at somatics being a wave coming into

32:53

the mental health field and also collective

32:55

fields , so is psychedelic assistance . Back

32:59

in the day it was awakened and it was shut down and

33:01

there's been so much research done since

33:03

then . Dr Bessel van der Kolk is one of the forerunners

33:06

of all the research . There is that

33:08

it's irrefutable the therapeutic benefits

33:10

that it's having to help people . So now

33:12

, instead of it being something that people need

33:14

to shut down and be scared of in therapeutic

33:17

use and therapeutic arenas

33:19

, psychilic assisted therapy can be a beautiful

33:21

way to help create healing

33:23

. So you'd definitely be talking

33:25

about that .

33:25

Totally Well . Thanks everybody for

33:27

joining us and if you want to connect

33:30

with me , I'm at theacupuncturist

33:33

underscore org on

33:35

Instagram .

33:36

And if you want to connect with me , I'm at mend

33:39

, m-e-n-d , mendcounselingcentercom

33:43

, and also Jenny J-E-N-N-I-E

33:45

underscore P-O-O-L , and

33:48

that's my Instagram .

33:50

Thanks , see you next time .

33:54

Thank you for joining us on Unscripted . I'm

33:56

Jenny Poole and I'm Janine Barandi

33:58

. We hope you found today's

34:00

discussion as inspiring and insightful as we

34:03

did . If you have any questions , comments

34:05

or stories you'd like to share , we'd love to hear

34:07

from you .

34:08

Connect with me on Instagram at the

34:10

Acupuncturist .

34:11

And you'll find me on social media

34:13

at MEND Counseling Center .

34:15

Until next time , remember that the

34:17

best gift you can give to those you love

34:19

is the gift of your own good health .