0:00

You're listening to an Airwave

0:02

Media Podcast. Hello

0:21

and welcome to Unbiased Science, where

0:23

we bring scientific method to

0:25

the madness. I'm your host

0:28

and public health scientist, Dr. Jess Steyer.

0:31

And today I'm joined by a

0:33

very special guest. We're going to

0:35

talk about all things skin related,

0:38

cosmetic. We're going to talk

0:40

about sunscreen. We're going to talk about all

0:42

the things that I get questions about all

0:44

the time. And I cannot wait to introduce

0:46

my guest. Before I do,

0:48

I actually have a little bit of a

0:50

personal update, sort of a milestone

0:53

I wanted to share with you all

0:55

that right after recording this. I'm actually

0:57

running to vote in

0:59

the local election here. I live in

1:01

this small town in Western Mass because

1:04

I'm actually running for the for a

1:06

seat on the Board of Health. And

1:09

I'm super excited about it. I don't think

1:11

I'm going to win. I'm running against someone

1:13

who's been around for a very long time.

1:15

A lot of people know him, but I

1:17

wanted to throw my hat in the ring.

1:19

It's actually the first contested election in our

1:22

small town since 2016. So

1:25

kind of cool. And I feel like I'm

1:27

having my my Leslie nope moment. If you're

1:29

a Parks and Rock fan, you'll get the

1:32

reference. But anyway, that's enough about me. I

1:35

want to introduce today's guest,

1:37

Esther Olu, who you

1:39

may know as the melanin chemist. Esther

1:42

is an R&D formulation

1:45

scientist, licensed esthetician and

1:47

science communicator who is

1:49

a passionate advocate for

1:51

dispelling misinformation within the beauty

1:53

industry. She has helped bring

1:55

creative cosmetic innovations from the

1:57

lab to the shelves of

1:59

retailers. These are expertise has been

2:01

featured in many publications such as

2:04

Vogue, Business, Sunday Times, The Financial

2:06

Times, and more to educate and

2:08

continually make a difference and the

2:10

lives and skyn help as many

2:13

hello as sir and thank you

2:15

for joining me Today I thought

2:17

how I'm. So. Honored to be

2:19

here, so answer before. I

2:21

get into questions huge a shared

2:24

with me that you are pursuing

2:26

your doctorate. Can you tell us

2:28

a little bit about your educational

2:30

background and what you hope to

2:32

pursue in the future. As. Romantic.

2:34

as I told myself I wasn't out of

2:37

never going to do a Phd in my

2:39

own are too long with am I going

2:41

to do it? I'm a by sounds pretty

2:43

expensive education. I did my undergraduate and one

2:46

of my from California as an undergraduate or

2:48

you purified a double majored and the chemistry

2:50

and act as though art which is an

2:52

eloquent safe completely opposite. But I like the

2:55

mess with world so. I didn't you

2:57

the and put their faith as well. After.

2:59

Paintings I want to do. My

3:01

masters may say mass shootings and

3:04

of methane he didn't plan to

3:06

them in after that. have. I

3:08

got my son it's license and then after

3:10

that our way to them country won't of

3:12

course out a month of them at the

3:14

my business out of things and the marketing.

3:16

And have such a huge impact on

3:18

my industry. I think we can all

3:20

agree how much marketing influences a lot

3:23

of things. I'm and I decided to

3:25

do an M B A and management

3:27

supply chain. Apple of the math, the

3:29

marketing. What did a finesse. Clean.

3:31

Dishes at all, So.

3:36

I'm with his phd amount of to

3:38

really do. Is an extension of my

3:41

my master's thesis would focus on handsome

3:43

occasion and how to treat. It is

3:45

such a common skin condition. And.

3:47

Many intend especially darker skin tones

3:49

I'm hoping to see. I'm

3:52

ideally other other new.

3:54

Innovation are treat and hopefully make

3:56

a discovery. Well we're deathly gonna

3:58

talk about that. So. There we

4:00

have been to Pick your brain about

4:02

hyper pigmentation for sure so just set

4:04

the stage. So esther I read that

4:06

that you were born to Nigerian parents

4:08

and in you said you know born

4:10

and raised in Orange County California and

4:12

a new said it and I was

4:14

reading some articles that fact that you

4:16

thought you know been interviewed for all

4:18

incredible and I'll link a bunch and

4:20

are show notes but you said that

4:22

they're worried many people in your community

4:24

to represent beauty standards that would inspire

4:26

you are my band. This quote I

4:28

wanted to share and. I'm hoping if

4:31

you could just talk a little

4:33

bit more about it. He said

4:35

it's growing up by beauty. Lens

4:37

was really limited. There wasn't a

4:39

lot of diversity around me and

4:41

my family didn't emphasize beauty, so

4:43

it wasn't until college, but I

4:46

started to pay attention. So what

4:48

inspired you to become the melanin

4:50

tennis? Focus on skincare and and

4:52

sun protection? Like what? What sparked

4:54

your interest in this field? Events

4:57

to me so many layers of earth

4:59

and the for me I'm I grew

5:01

up in Orange County California and if

5:03

our some other ones county. It's very

5:06

predominantly like why I'm in fact was

5:08

you know, arm and Asia. So they

5:10

were the weather mates with a look

5:12

at me going to high school. And

5:14

especially, I was one of a very

5:16

few with black people there and I

5:18

just didn't look. Fit. In

5:20

as Fit and From cause I'm going to

5:22

college it was out. There are mostly

5:24

the same but there's a lot of more

5:27

diversity their fantasies about looks like me. For

5:29

off it out that when I forget Incirlik

5:31

skincare and like looking at the beauty. You

5:33

see birds and all that stuff when him

5:36

up make top and and all that and.

5:38

I'm. I actually was on the path to

5:40

got him to med for i was of a

5:42

woman has one of for me and with my

5:45

during culture. And I drink

5:47

water. If you're not doing with going

5:49

to med school, doing engineering, you consider

5:52

that a failure like the really and

5:54

am is very much strength of immigrants

5:56

from the immigrant cultures. Believe without, is

5:58

there an apple. Going to my undergrad

6:01

our what you know I'm not talking about

6:03

a passionate about says the another much. About

6:05

this as a full of our going to be miserable.

6:08

As I was in my classes and

6:10

organ throw myself with a black sheep

6:12

of the think what with my family

6:14

I drew Barry unconventional nontraditional things and

6:16

about finishing pull. Out what

6:18

you know, I don't a Thursday pharmacy school.

6:21

I don't have far too much school and

6:23

I was thinking about what are the other.

6:25

Things I could do that. Are

6:27

still finds a way to purchase not. Those

6:30

things, right? And. When

6:33

I love classes was advanced organic chemistry

6:35

and out that okay obviously you're from

6:37

the second thing or rivers rivers seeing

6:40

them and. Other. They obviously I

6:42

like thing care about make up there have been is.

6:44

Obviously a way that it's made the right

6:46

sounds as I'm a little research and I

6:48

found out of a five minutes i specified

6:50

him cause the fact that it's pretty interesting

6:53

that you know this actual science behind. Our

6:56

View products and I found

6:58

this am one cannot seem

7:00

fair monarchy. And he

7:02

was released. peaceful. Pretty big with

7:04

geography. the. The first influence

7:06

there, and like that that caught

7:08

my son industry. Six

7:11

a mother. Now that I'm gonna I'm gonna learn

7:13

more about this would have been why and decide

7:15

see my my master's degree to get with a

7:17

formal training for understanding. But the field and. To

7:19

the map of history. I will let you know I'm

7:21

passionate about this. And might my

7:23

pillow hop one was difficult. It was

7:25

initially dismissed be an outlet looked upon.

7:27

Them up and running this. I

7:30

must. Have. You got a family

7:32

and west been from their. Yeah,

7:35

know your page is amazing.

7:37

The on as Surplus video

7:40

is regularly really educational informative

7:42

but. Like interesting and

7:44

engaging. Just fantastic contents

7:46

asserting you. And obviously I'll say this

7:48

again at the end of the episode that where can people

7:50

follow. You. And. Call me on

7:52

Instagram. Mostly Instagram. I ever some fucked up

7:55

on him up for active on the it's

7:57

at the Mountain. Chemist. Awesome.

8:00

And I'll link to it in the show notes. All

8:03

right, so let's get into it.

8:05

So you have, well, first I

8:07

want to talk about sunscreen and

8:09

sun protection. So you've discussed the

8:12

importance of melanin friendly sunscreen. So

8:14

what does this mean exactly? What

8:16

should people look for in a

8:18

sunscreen? So when I'm seeing melanin

8:21

friendly sunscreens, I'm talking about it

8:23

not leaving a cast on

8:26

the deeper skin tones. I think a

8:29

lot of us have maybe

8:31

accidentally or intentionally used a sunscreen

8:34

and found out it is making me

8:36

look purple, blue, super, super white.

8:38

And that is really what

8:40

happens with the mineral based

8:42

sunscreens. So when I'm seeing melanin

8:44

friendly sunscreens, I'm mostly talking about chemical sunscreens.

8:47

And these are the organic filter.

8:49

So things like able benzone, octosalate,

8:52

oxybenzone, and so on and so forth. And

8:55

those tend to, well, for

8:57

one, they're soluble. So when you apply

8:59

these filters on your skin, it's going

9:02

to give you in pretty much an

9:04

invisible finish. When it

9:06

comes to melanin, those are not

9:08

soluble, they are dispersed and suspended. They're

9:10

really like white powders. White powders guys,

9:12

and they're suspended. So they're not going to

9:15

dissolve into your skin. They're going to be

9:17

on top of your skin, which is why

9:19

you're having that cast. So

9:21

your melanin friendly sunscreens are out there

9:23

for any skin tone are going to

9:26

be like your chemical sunscreen. Okay, so

9:28

you answered my question because I was

9:30

going to ask you, so when you're

9:32

reaching for sunscreen, are you reaching for

9:34

chemical and mineral? And I'm so glad

9:36

you shared that. You know, there's a

9:38

lot of fear mongering on social media,

9:40

I'm sure you've seen it, about chemical

9:42

sunscreens in particular. And it's interesting that

9:44

you just said, you know, the chemical

9:46

sunscreens are absorbed, whereas the mineral ones

9:48

are sort of sitting on your skin.

9:50

And I think that that idea of

9:52

absorption is very scary for people. There

9:54

is lots of misinformation about there about

9:56

chemical Sunscreens being linked to cancer.

10:00

And actually people cleaning badge, the

10:02

sunscreen giving people skin cancer and

10:04

not the sun exposure. So what

10:06

would you say to people who

10:08

who say that there are my

10:10

home if our public as it.

10:15

Is really not. Something.

10:17

That gives you cancer. Were just a little

10:19

so much. Technological advancements were able

10:21

to detect cancer compared to back

10:23

then. that's why it seems like.

10:26

That. Quote Unquote Their listen. To

10:29

the cancer rates are rising. were just

10:31

advancing emphasize be able to detect. Race:

10:33

And you know how people live longer,

10:36

appear to when. Decades. Ago

10:38

Laramie decade without. Also, I

10:40

understand. Muggy? mention that it sound. Very

10:42

scary when with brochure number absorption of

10:44

but it's really important to distinguish that

10:47

something I'm barb doesn't mean that harming

10:49

you. We have a pretty pretty

10:51

I would say. Advance.

10:54

Of other man for hims everybody that are

10:56

fleeting. The things out there are staying in our body. and

10:58

when you pick him up off the college. Dot

11:01

are aggregated exposure on the adding

11:03

all the things up together doctor

11:05

for colleges that. Are looking at the safety

11:07

limits? Them out what is acceptable and what is

11:09

that? Acceptable and know Setting: Okay, This.

11:11

Limit is okay and isn't a path

11:13

that is not okay. So.

11:16

Many. Points: Member absorption of the mean

11:18

harm. okay so backwards

11:20

member that mm correlation about equal

11:23

causation day point of them are

11:25

the as well as succeed with

11:27

a certain love it now is

11:30

there is certain sps. That you

11:32

reach for. I think I've seen some

11:34

people say oh, you know anything above

11:36

thirty or something like that, It doesn't

11:38

matter. Do you reach for a certain

11:40

Spf number. So I typically go for

11:43

as justice see how ever I have as

11:45

the authorities as well as because I do.

11:47

You have a platform to get some the

11:49

pr. For. Me any something is better

11:51

than know some friends I don't want to

11:53

be so. Nit picky about it. I

11:55

think at the As as a thirty plus

11:57

a baseline for anybody and that factor. So

12:00

what if he brought back some and you

12:02

want to protect the second the you be

12:04

a radiation which I bought the British. And

12:06

commonly associated with aging and you be be

12:08

pretty similar to the most. Commonly associated

12:10

with burnt burning so why make certain

12:13

find something that protect on both both

12:15

and and the the and spectrum. Am

12:18

i what I said I like as guess

12:20

if see but. Ultimately,

12:23

Of only two that I'm when I'm happy.

12:25

So. There is this article that came

12:27

out. we just spoke better briefly before we

12:29

hit record and and neither of us actually

12:31

read it in full. I decided that popped

12:33

up on my yeah but you know instagram

12:36

when I was scrolling this morning about a

12:38

that I think it was published in the

12:40

Atlantic and it was something about how it's

12:42

we're almost like over emphasizing that the the

12:44

dangers of are you know and sun exposure

12:47

and maybe we can the lay off us

12:49

that sunscreen a little bit like we're going

12:51

to hard for sunscreen and scientists need to

12:53

take a different approach to messaging. Again, please

12:56

don't put me on that I will find

12:58

that be article and I will policy to

13:00

show notes that as to use something that

13:02

I thought was really I mean just thought

13:05

on can you share your response to to

13:07

that yes I'm so a. Call it the

13:09

something about some things are that they are. Hundred percent

13:11

protect the fact the new that is

13:13

not sure you're still letting, and about

13:16

roughly three to five percent of. You

13:18

be on this this bill that the pyramid

13:20

scf number that you're getting the higher the

13:22

number goes. I would say it. Number

13:25

go the less you'll be you are getting

13:28

but you're someone to be getting the you

13:30

be. An. Audit people

13:32

often seen some block as them they're

13:34

blocking all of you Me that that

13:36

is a band time in in. The

13:38

Us he can I use and head again.

13:41

You're so you're letting you be. In

13:43

Smith hit your skin for years later decided

13:46

by didn't even have a common perception if

13:48

you were from figure something. It's maddening. The.

13:51

You. Thought you. Might still get mad or up

13:53

with a small can possibly if you're laying around

13:55

the sun all day. But. You're

13:57

still get reception computers. A few remarks.

14:00

Do you want to see the first

14:02

10 professionals that are kind of extreme? Yes,

14:04

but that doesn't define all of the professionals.

14:06

You know what I mean? So true.

14:09

I mean, it's funny because I do see

14:11

some people who it's literally like you'd think

14:13

it's almost like a vampire. They'll go

14:16

outside and they're slathered in

14:18

sunscreen. Great. But then

14:20

they're also wearing a hat and a scarf

14:22

holding an umbrella. And I mean, I don't

14:25

want to poo-poo that. You know, everyone has

14:27

different risk thresholds, risk factors, family

14:29

history. It's all that stuff. So I

14:31

really do get it. But sometimes when

14:33

I see that level of, you know,

14:35

of extreme, I think that speaks

14:37

to what you were just saying. So it

14:39

makes total sense to me. All right.

14:42

Let's move on to talk

14:44

about cosmetics and skincare. Esther,

14:47

you shared that

14:49

you've done some research

14:51

on hyperpigmentation. This

14:54

is a concern for many

14:56

people, especially those with darker

14:58

skin tones. So could you

15:00

explain some different types of

15:02

hyperpigmentation and some effective ways

15:04

to address this issue? Yes.

15:07

So there's two main types of hyperpigmentation

15:09

that I would say are like the most common.

15:11

The first one is post-inflammatory hyperpigmentation.

15:14

So this condition in particular happens

15:17

when there is like a certain trauma to

15:19

the skin. So it can be a

15:21

cut, a bug bite, a burn, you

15:23

getting acne and what's left over after

15:26

you get that. What

15:28

ends up as a result for that information is that you

15:30

get dark marks. And

15:33

you have the other one just called melasma.

15:35

And melasma, I would say, is like more

15:37

common in women. That one is more genetic

15:40

slash hormonal. And

15:43

that one is a little bit more difficult to treat. But

15:46

overall, the strategies when it

15:49

comes to treating hyperpigmentation from what my

15:51

research was on is that it should

15:53

be treated from three angles. You

15:56

want to treat it from before. for

16:00

the melanin synthesis process, during

16:02

the melanin synthesis process, and after

16:04

the melanin synthesis process. So

16:06

what that means is that you're

16:08

targeting it from all three angles

16:11

to not necessarily speed up the

16:13

process, but to have a more

16:15

multi-factor the targeting approach. So

16:18

when I say before non-systhesis, you want to

16:20

use ingredients like M-acetylbocosamine or

16:22

like tretinoin, your retinoin. And

16:24

then during the process, you

16:27

want to use ingredients called

16:29

tyrosinase inhibitors. Tretinoin is a

16:31

key enzyme that is causing

16:33

the melanin synthesis process. So

16:35

ingredients like liquid through extract,

16:38

hydroquinone is not prescription

16:41

only unfortunately, but

16:44

what else? Cojec acid,

16:47

ingredients like that are during the process.

16:49

And then after we're after that process

16:51

is done, you want to use ingredients

16:53

like cephalium to shed your skin cells

16:56

off. Sunscreen to prevent the process from

16:58

being exacerbated. So

17:01

use a combination of all of that is

17:04

the best way to go about treating. Oh,

17:08

that's so, so interesting. And I

17:10

remember when I was pregnant, I

17:12

had a little bit of melasma on my upper

17:14

lip and I was like pretty

17:16

self-conscious about it. So

17:19

these are really helpful tips. All

17:22

right, so let's move on. Sorry, I have

17:24

a list of questions that I want to

17:27

ask, Esther. All right, I want to talk

17:29

about preservatives. Let's talk

17:31

preservatives. So can a product

17:33

be adequately preserved without preservatives,

17:35

without a product? So I

17:38

know it may sound

17:40

like I'm about to say no, but

17:42

actually in reality, it actually can

17:44

be adequately preserved without

17:46

a preservative. And the reason

17:48

why is it's called hurdle

17:50

technology. And with hurdle technology,

17:52

you're setting up all these barriers that

17:55

microbes do not like to prevent

17:57

them from growing. So that could be a very low

17:59

pH. or a very high

18:01

pH, that could be the no

18:03

presence of water, so anhydrous, that

18:05

could be using

18:08

a high percentage of alcohol. So

18:11

using a combination of these types

18:13

of techniques prevents organisms from growing.

18:16

So technically using that would prevent

18:19

microbes from growing and would prevent people

18:21

from not using preservatives. But

18:23

I still recommend using preservatives because

18:27

it's just like a safeguard.

18:30

And you don't know how a consumer is

18:32

going to use a product once it gets

18:34

into their hands, you know? Yeah, you know,

18:36

it's just interesting to me because from a

18:38

marketing perspective, I see so many products like

18:41

proudly boasting, preservative-free, and for me, that's

18:43

a red flag. I want

18:45

my preservatives. I don't want mold. I

18:47

don't want all of those things growing.

18:50

But that's interesting to know that there

18:52

are some alternatives, there are some ways

18:54

to formulate that can protect

18:56

the product, but it sounds like you're okay,

19:03

love it. All right, so I

19:05

don't know if y'all are watching on video

19:08

right now, but I'm staring at Esther and

19:10

her beautiful skin that I'm

19:12

mortifying, but I'm on camera

19:14

next year right now. So I have to

19:16

ask you, what is your

19:19

do you have a holy grail

19:21

product? Is there a certain ingredient

19:23

that you think is like underrated?

19:26

Underrated? Well, I

19:28

would say even though it's not

19:30

really treating anything per se, I

19:32

would say glycerin is like the most

19:35

basic ingredient, but

19:38

it is so versatile.

19:40

It's so versatile. I

19:43

feel like hyaluronic acid gets all of the love because

19:45

it sounds nice. It

19:47

sounds very nice, the ruble of the tongue

19:49

nice and you know, it's in all these

19:51

marketing and all that but glycerin

19:54

is in my opinion, a better hydrator

19:56

than hyaluronic acid. It does so much

19:58

better skin, especially when use at

20:00

very, very high levels. And it's very conditioning.

20:03

So I think it's an unsung hero, it leads

20:05

to a lot more love. But I'm loving that

20:07

I'm seeing more brands trying to use more of

20:09

it in their products. Love

20:12

that. I have a thing about hooligan

20:14

products. That's really, why it's so hard for me.

20:17

There's actually this toner, this Korean

20:19

toner essence that I really, really

20:22

like. It's called Hyun kang yul.

20:24

And it's their essence toner. I've been

20:26

using that since I was an undergrad.

20:29

Another day is here, and you're ready for

20:31

it. What to wear? Check. Breakfast, lunch, and

20:33

dinner? Check. Planning for what's next and how

20:36

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of America and a member FDIC. One

21:00

of the first stories

21:02

that I worked for was a Korean beauty

21:05

brand and I liked it a lot. Yeah.

21:07

So I love Korean skincare.

21:09

I'm going to have to search for that

21:11

and order it immediately. I'll send you the

21:14

link to it. I'll send you the link

21:16

to it. Please do. Please do. Okay.

21:18

Let me sit, let me see here. There's so

21:20

much I want to pick your brain about. Okay.

21:23

Are there certain ingredients or

21:26

claims or whatever that you avoid? Like

21:28

if you see that this is being

21:30

marketed in a particular skincare line that

21:32

you do not reach for it? I

21:34

don't think there's anything I've ever

21:37

avoided. And the reason why is because

21:39

I'm really lucky where I do, I

21:41

don't have sensitive skin. I don't have

21:43

reactive skin. So I can pretty much

21:46

use anything with no issue. And ideally,

21:49

you know, I love to avoid the brands

21:51

that use sulfate free and chemical free and

21:53

all that stuff. But we

21:55

have to be honest where all these

21:57

brands are using are starting to use that nowadays.

22:00

because they're just trying to sell their products. And

22:02

I need to do my makeup and my

22:04

skincare. So it's almost like a pick your poison

22:06

type of thing. And as much as I hate

22:08

the marketing, as much as I hate the marketing,

22:11

I still just use what works the

22:14

best for me. Got it.

22:16

Well, and I'm so glad that you brought

22:18

up the marketing because so much of this is

22:20

marketing. And I think it's really cool that you

22:23

went and

22:25

actually specialized in marketing as part of your

22:27

education and your training. Chemical

22:30

free always kills me because what the heck does that

22:32

even mean? I'm already. It

22:35

literally makes no sense. Clean

22:37

Beauty is another major pet peeve of

22:39

mine. What does clean mean? There's no

22:41

definition for that. Exactly. That's a

22:43

pet peeve. But so I was actually going to ask

22:45

you that I see

22:47

so many products again, boasting

22:50

that they're sulfate free or

22:52

silicone free. So can you

22:54

explain why that is not

22:56

a good thing? So

22:59

when we think about the psychology of

23:01

free from claims, what brands are essentially

23:04

doing is they're trying to tell

23:06

you that sulfate and silicone. So these ingredients

23:08

are a threat to you. They're a threat

23:10

to you in some way, shape or form.

23:13

And when they use these claims, what they're trying to

23:15

say is like, I'm trying to direct you away from

23:17

that threat and make my

23:19

product your safe with your little safe

23:21

haven. And it kind of

23:23

tweaks your mindset to think, okay, if I buy

23:26

these products, they sulfate free and silicone

23:29

free, I'm going to be safe in these

23:31

brands care about my health when that's really not the

23:33

case. They're just trying

23:35

to sell a product to you. Right.

23:38

Sofates are fine. I know people say like, oh, it's really

23:40

harsh and stripping. And yes, that can be true. Do you

23:42

know what can be wrong? But that applies for like really

23:45

any ingredient and what

23:47

concentration that has been used at

23:50

and so on and so forth. Same thing with

23:52

silicones. I mean, silicones are great for skin protection.

23:55

And your skin is still going to quote unquote breathe

23:58

using silicones. They're not bad at all. I'm

24:00

so it's really important understand how

24:02

impactful languages, especially when it comes

24:04

to marketing. Oh. My goodness

24:07

I'm obsessed with U S This so

24:09

I saw that you did I say

24:11

you did a video about this I

24:13

think are there was a pose. I

24:15

saw something on your on your page

24:17

and I love you to speak about.

24:19

That's the trend of people doing make

24:21

op board zito skincare while they're on

24:24

a plane. Mid air space is ah

24:26

thing right now. What do you make

24:28

of this trend? Is it a good

24:30

idea to do You can turn your

24:32

make up while on a plane or

24:34

maybe not so much so. I'm

24:37

not a better bet m it's because

24:39

of airplanes are dirty like I wonder.

24:41

How dirty airplanes are Also have

24:43

dry they are. They're super super

24:46

dry. Sympathy. Were dirty is very

24:48

very low. Humidity so it's officially brand

24:50

new skin out and if is not

24:52

clean up clean and I have time

24:54

as an assassin. Your face. And.

24:57

Doing about why on a plane? Where the. It's

25:00

just not. Hydroponic and and

25:02

in my opinion I thought my bicycle Do it

25:04

You know. If Clinton and But

25:06

Marion engaging entertaining I probably get it.

25:08

From my standpoint, I I like to

25:11

do my my routine before gonna planned.

25:13

makes my skin for taxes. On.

25:16

And that that. I will ever forget.

25:18

So if is a simple to prolong. Fly if

25:20

a from both are fi. I completely understand

25:23

that the day. And then I

25:25

bona fide that one when it once indonesia

25:27

last yourself and out with you know I'm

25:29

gonna regret. Not getting up and

25:31

walk my paper. apply more them here if

25:33

I'm being. So. I made. A.

25:36

Cat or A or a I

25:38

Like sons success Or I know,

25:40

Sitting here in i wanna talk

25:42

about shade ranges and you did

25:44

or was really incredible were real

25:47

which I'm gonna link and are

25:49

So now it's a bath. A

25:51

lot of inclusivity and representation in

25:53

some product lines on specifically certain

25:56

foundations. I know there was a

25:58

brand and I. Citing unnamed

26:00

I'm sure yo yo yo know

26:03

it on that they've received a

26:05

lot of backlash because they're darker

26:07

shade was with really not dark

26:09

and all and then they almost

26:12

like over corrected. And put something

26:14

out. That won't let me I'm

26:16

batting at. Can you tell what is the

26:18

issue with and can you to take us

26:21

through this either that the lack of of

26:23

she'd ranges. Yeah, so

26:25

am historically if. They're

26:27

really haven't been getting in getting consider the

26:29

when it comes to my car cause metics

26:32

the seem to think about foundations and consider

26:34

the center of or people with a dozen

26:36

the five cents could not find their seeds

26:38

and store they have to try and buy

26:40

a buy their seen on mine. And is

26:42

so difficult time by you online. it's

26:44

like literally it's hit. very hit or

26:46

miss. So. Our filling with the

26:49

onset of fancy beauty. A lot of

26:51

conversations were taping thing about fifty plus.

26:54

Say. The foundation bow, the map and

26:56

Norm An. Hour. Face.

26:58

I'm sensing you. ya know her? brand?

27:01

A release him for dialogue about making

27:03

them with more more inclusivity of as

27:05

but a standard not afterthought. So.

27:08

On. This brand

27:10

that name he euphoria. They came

27:12

out with Sam different nations on

27:15

this happen I believe last year.

27:17

The same way with not that. I'm

27:20

a carpenter up on the back bad

27:22

some this before it out of the

27:24

law. got back last and they claims

27:26

that that isn't this a lot of

27:28

other from. Concept to see how

27:30

would be received about within our

27:33

public before they would expand. The.

27:35

Same ranges what it's like. That.

27:37

Admit that we make any sense because. You.

27:39

Have a target market. Went on a second I'm

27:41

and first on August and ten before he wants

27:44

the father. Didn't. Make sense. And

27:47

then. Month. Later. At. The

27:49

back of efforts. That said a backlash. The cannot with.

27:52

More. Save what you think it is good

27:54

but as you said over the over threatened because

27:56

the darker shade. Wasn't. Even

27:58

using all of this the. Goodman.

28:01

Said. You'd typically used to make a foundation

28:03

their defeating. White. And

28:05

black, so it was a very deep

28:07

shade of grey. Knowing that

28:10

is that. Our knowing everybody

28:12

has undertones. Undertones or

28:14

like the and the under the underneath

28:16

color that bad on everybody. Had summer.

28:19

Warmer. Like mean. Yellow red,

28:21

summer cooler bluish but

28:24

falcons. Some of our lives

28:26

and they that foundation said was

28:28

just. A few know how

28:30

to say that was disappointing. If the

28:32

same grade nine. So.

28:35

Been with them together that they've been

28:37

pie ever since. I was gonna ask

28:39

you have they respond and no no

28:41

men just saying that retailer that for

28:43

pulling them out author sell them. So.

28:46

Far too and to credo and

28:48

I'm. Here. Are the one

28:50

of their africa who a was determined to be

28:52

teller and of course are trying to get also

28:54

didn't remove them from the south as wow. Oh

28:58

interesting. The videos the I saw

29:00

it's at people were were taking

29:02

just like black pants they were

29:04

buying and putting it on there

29:06

is on their skin and then

29:08

putting this product next to it

29:10

and just selling. I mean it

29:12

was basically identical Yes. Oh

29:14

my goodness yes I know as as

29:16

your i think incredibly fun to seek

29:19

and in this video that you put

29:21

out on this topic you were selling

29:23

the did there is it for five

29:25

different light. On probably

29:28

can use the wrong term spelling bees

29:30

colors that are like the next to

29:32

create on foundations it does the sounding

29:34

familiar am I make a was like

29:36

read this can you talk a little

29:38

bit more about that. Was the first

29:40

the so on when it comes to

29:42

making foundation on the use iron oxide

29:44

so I think I'm outside the so

29:46

you africa been earlier something. also use

29:49

iron oxide. Specifically setting him back side

29:51

and see oxide some. Bills. But

29:53

some things that are very similar here. So

29:56

I have a fork of money. Say you the

29:58

Black are Oxide yell or an outside. And

30:00

read: iron oxide. So. Things are

30:02

advancing an industry where I'm of

30:04

different colors on call from him.

30:06

Off? I mean. And ultimate mean blue

30:08

are being used to and that they have

30:11

to see the make a they have a

30:13

more diverse. Range of undertones and and

30:15

shape. So

30:17

as I miss any for out

30:20

Bradbury lot save only use. Black.

30:22

And white over in an apartment

30:25

in a titanium dioxide of that's

30:27

that I'm not op a number

30:29

one as youth and Me foundation

30:31

with well. And. That's the

30:34

way. Yeah, right?

30:36

Okay and it's so funny to Titanium dioxide

30:38

has been in the news for the past

30:40

few years and lots of fear about is

30:43

causing cancer and on using. you know my

30:45

little a air quotes here and she's as

30:47

we have to go back to the don't

30:49

need the boys in right and the you

30:52

now have said he knew that I that

30:54

were exposed to in our cause metics on

30:56

orange things like got yeah I period Prada

30:58

five tampons was a lot of concern. ah

31:01

yes it's use to choose to color to

31:03

products. White right His mom says lot

31:05

of concern about it being carcinogenic. Any things

31:07

is course it is. I think me an

31:09

in the Met on the amount that were

31:12

exposed to in these products is low

31:14

and is not shown to have any. Linked.

31:17

To you know seats are to causing.

31:19

Cancer in humans it it's

31:21

bad about that. Didn't learn

31:23

med bay yes p a

31:25

day don't city or titanium.

31:27

Dioxide or I will thank you

31:29

for sharing the little bit about

31:32

that. I think it's a really

31:34

important issue All right. So what

31:36

are some exciting developments? Or friends

31:39

in skin care for smelling and

31:41

rich skin and skincare in general

31:43

That. Maybe. We should know

31:46

about so as much as if

31:48

there's a lot of difficulty with.

31:50

Some frame but a book and been open

31:52

frames am I will say is that companies

31:54

are aware of this of us If you

31:56

have actually makes me think we're games and

31:58

a trying to find. Strategies. to make

32:01

the appearance of the white cast a little bit better. So,

32:04

you know, having like tinted options, like using

32:06

the iron options as I mentioned, making the

32:08

particle sizes smaller, that also

32:10

helps with the white cast. On

32:13

the chemical filter side, in

32:15

the US, very exciting news. We are

32:17

so, so close to getting a new

32:19

filter approved that is commonly used in

32:22

Europe and Asia. So we're so close to getting one of

32:24

them approved, which will be

32:26

good for us and we'll have new

32:28

formulations that are hopefully cosmetically elegant

32:30

in the US. Is

32:32

there anything else I would say? I was gonna say

32:35

something wise, because it doesn't make the most exciting

32:37

to me. I

32:39

just see actually that, I believe

32:42

it was Lori, no, La Roche-Posay,

32:44

I believe it came out with

32:46

a new ingredient called Melazo to

32:49

treat hyperpigmentation. So they

32:51

claim that they've been working on

32:53

this for like, I think over 10 years.

32:55

So I'm very interested in that because that's

32:58

when my fingers work. So I'm like, okay, I'm

33:00

so interested. So like, learn more about it. How

33:04

cool is that? That's awesome. Yeah,

33:07

because people are always saying that skincare,

33:09

especially sunscreens, are so much better in

33:11

Europe and in Asia. I mean, you

33:13

were mentioning some of the Korean lines.

33:16

So that's really interesting. I'm curious to see if that gets

33:18

approved here in the US and

33:20

how that changes the landscape of products. Yeah, me

33:23

too. So I'm curious, are

33:25

you someone who thinks that,

33:28

well, okay, let's say there's someone who is

33:30

sort of new to skincare, wants to sort

33:32

of, you know, dabble and try out some

33:35

new products. Do you think that, well, I

33:37

have a few different questions. One, do we

33:40

need to spend a lot of money

33:42

to get high quality products? Or are

33:44

there like drugstore dupes or products that

33:48

will do just fine? And

33:50

two, do we need a lot of

33:52

products or are there just a few staples

33:54

that we need to get the job done? I'm

33:57

very passionate about this topic. So, a couple of

33:59

questions. common misconception that I will

34:01

probably be seeing for the rest

34:03

of my life is that price

34:06

means quality or effectiveness.

34:08

And that is not true. Brands

34:12

mark up the prices of their products. That

34:15

should be common knowledge. I'm not saying it's

34:17

common knowledge, but it should be common knowledge.

34:19

Brands mark up the price of what it

34:21

costs, what a product actually is. And

34:24

you can find great products in the drugstore,

34:27

just as you can find expensive products in

34:29

like the luxury store. So it doesn't

34:32

mean that one isn't worth

34:34

it and one is worth it. What is

34:36

worth it is very subjective to you and

34:38

personal to you. You

34:41

can find great products anywhere. It's

34:43

really, truly trial and error. Two,

34:47

you do not need a lot of products. I

34:49

know people have very expensive, the

34:51

10 product K-beauty routines and

34:53

all that stuff. You do not need

34:55

all of that. It is so important to

34:57

stick to the basics. All you really need

34:59

is a cleanser, moisturizer and

35:01

sunscreen. If you

35:04

have a skin concern, if you have

35:06

acne, if you have hyperpigmentation or

35:08

whatever your skin concern can be, then

35:11

you want to look at the more targeted like

35:13

serums and all that stuff that is going to

35:15

address your skin care concerns. But

35:17

it doesn't mean that you need a single product for

35:19

every concern. Try to find

35:22

products that target most

35:24

concerns. That way you're not spending all this money

35:26

and not seeing the results

35:28

that you want to see. This

35:30

is great for me to hear. So I'm

35:33

pushing 40. My

35:36

skin is definitely changing. People

35:38

like to write to me sometimes to tell me that

35:41

I would benefit from photos. I mean,

35:43

there's some kind on the internet. I

35:46

mean, yeah, I have my, you know, my skin

35:48

is aging. I'm a human aging woman.

35:50

Exactly. You know what I

35:52

mean? And I

35:54

am susceptible to a lot of the marketing. I

35:56

totally get it. You know, I'm putting all these

35:59

serums and tinctures. like I don't even know

36:01

what I'm putting on my face. And I feel like I'm

36:04

probably combining things that maybe shouldn't be

36:06

combined or putting too, I don't know,

36:08

I just, I get it. For

36:10

those who are listening, who are susceptible to

36:12

this marketing stuff, I get it. But

36:15

from what you're saying Esther, one of what I've

36:17

heard from others and dermatologists is that first of

36:19

all, you don't need to spend a lot of

36:21

money. I mean, my, is it CeraVe? That's like

36:23

my favorite moisturizer. I get it at the drug

36:26

store, you know, you gotta buy what works for

36:28

your skin. You don't necessarily need to spend a

36:30

lot of money. And a lot

36:33

of times we're overdoing what we're

36:35

putting on our skin, right? And

36:38

just real quickly, last question, and then

36:40

I'm gonna, and then I'll stop talking. Is

36:42

there a certain order, like is

36:44

it, well, actually no, here's my

36:47

question, flogging. Like I

36:49

feel like that's the new thing that you put a

36:51

layer of like, like

36:53

a Vaseline or something like that on

36:55

your face at the very end of

36:57

your skincare routine. Like, can we just

36:59

talk a little bit about the order

37:01

of things and slogging and is it,

37:03

are you feeling in the benefits of

37:05

skincare when you sludge? So that's

37:08

a lot of what Vaseline uses and

37:10

like CeraVe, for example,

37:12

it is a gold standard occlusive. So

37:14

when I'm saying occlusive, occlusive are the

37:17

things that are really feeling in the

37:19

thin moisture. Our skin loses water

37:21

every day, our skin is the very losing water

37:23

as we're talking about right now. That's really what

37:25

helps us, helps the skin function. It's

37:27

honestly a bad thing, but we also don't

37:29

want our skin to lose too much water

37:31

because that's how our skin gets dry and

37:33

leads to other skin conditions. So

37:36

we do occluses like Vaseline is great. However,

37:39

not everybody needs it. So

37:41

that's why if you have acne, you're not trying

37:43

to trap the acne, you're trying to exactly do

37:45

the acne. So if your skin is really dry,

37:47

like if it was a winter and like snowing

37:49

and very, very dry, it doesn't hurt to like

37:51

to sludge and to have an extra layer of

37:53

protection to like fill in the moisture. Or

37:56

if you like have a straight bro, that's cut.

37:58

It doesn't hurt like to apply that. lean.

38:01

But do you need to do it every day

38:04

to assume the moisture? No, just use a regular

38:06

moisturizer. You're doing fine. I'm like,

38:08

I'm doing fine that

38:10

way. That's what moisture workers are supposed

38:12

to function as they have a combination

38:14

of like occlusives and emollients. So

38:16

what helps make skin so smooth and

38:19

like the hydrate is in it.

38:21

So flogging, it's not as necessary

38:23

as people make it out to be. When

38:25

some systems are in your order, there's really

38:28

just no hard and fast rules. But the

38:30

guidelines to use it from a stenocystic is,

38:32

but for people, they may mix it up. You're

38:35

not going to die. If you switch

38:39

at the order of some of your products, you'll

38:41

be okay. But just the general guidelines,

38:44

stenocystic is. Love this.

38:46

Love this. Love all of this. Esther,

38:48

thank you so much for joining

38:51

me today. Just props to

38:53

you. Everything you're doing. You're so amazing.

38:55

So ambitious. You're doing such incredible

38:58

things. Everyone needs to

39:00

go right now and follow Esther.

39:02

Esther, can you remind us where

39:04

we can follow along? Yes. You

39:06

can find me at the Mountain

39:08

Chemists on Instagram and TikTok. I'm

39:10

going to do better about going on TikTok. Maybe we

39:12

can motivate each other.

39:16

Well, thank you again. Thank you all. Thank everyone. Sorry. Thank you all

39:18

for tuning in today, for

39:26

listening. Please, if you like what

39:28

you've heard here, please leave a

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39:55

And also check out my other podcast,

39:57

Bites of Health. That's Bites with a

39:59

Y. It airs daily

40:01

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40:03

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40:06

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40:08

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40:10

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40:12

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40:17

Thank you all for tuning in for

40:19

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