0:00

You're. listening to an air wave

0:03

media podcast. Welcome.

0:21

To unbiased science where we

0:23

bring scientific method to the

0:25

madness on your host and

0:27

public health scientist Dr. Just

0:29

Stier. And today we are

0:32

going to talk about Measles.

0:34

So measles once on the

0:36

brink of eradication in the

0:38

Us is making a dangerous

0:40

come back, especially in communities

0:42

with low vaccination rates. This

0:44

is happening in the U

0:46

S, but also elsewhere around

0:48

the globe. So much so.

0:51

That the latest measles outbreak

0:53

jeopardizes the Us is progress

0:56

toward measles elimination. Despite the

0:58

availability of safe and effective

1:00

vaccines, measles cases have been

1:03

on the rise in large

1:05

part due to vaccine hesitancy

1:08

and mis information. We.

1:10

Must work together to

1:12

reignite a culture of

1:14

immunisation in the Us

1:16

by addressing parents' vaccine

1:18

questions and concerns to

1:20

safeguard the strides we've

1:22

made in preventing and

1:24

even eliminating and dangerous

1:26

diseases. And unfortunately, just

1:28

last week news broke

1:30

that an unvaccinated child

1:32

under the age of

1:34

five died from measles

1:36

in Ontario, Canada. Just

1:38

underscoring that this. Isn't Yeah,

1:40

I think some people write

1:43

off measles is just a

1:45

skin rash or something. not

1:47

serious. and that's sort of

1:49

because we're a victim of

1:51

our own success, right? Because

1:53

vaccines have been so successful

1:55

I'm and unfortunately, these gaps

1:57

in vaccine uptake have have

1:59

threatened. Progress City J

2:01

I enjoyed by a very

2:04

special guest Cerise Marotta and

2:06

will them saying that. Correctly

2:08

the know I practice tai three

2:11

is. A

2:13

perfect so just to brief

2:15

background on series series is

2:17

a twenty plus fear. Public

2:20

health experts and former science

2:22

has some are going to

2:24

talk a little bit about

2:26

her her journey. She's currently

2:28

the Director of Advocacy and

2:30

Education and Sunny to Your

2:32

family. She works closely with

2:35

community health workers on the

2:37

ground amidst this challenging measles

2:39

outbreak landscapes and brings a

2:41

unique perspective through her. Ongoing.

2:43

Work Additionally, series is

2:46

a personal advocate for

2:48

immunizations. whose work is inspired

2:50

by the loss of her son

2:53

Joe assess to a vaccine preventable

2:55

disease. Surrey. Thank you so much for

2:57

joining me today. Most. Thank you for

2:59

having me! Very pleased to be. Here So

3:02

let's start at the beginning.

3:04

And can you tell us a

3:06

little bit about your background eating?

3:08

I know you You mentioned that

3:10

you the background in science but

3:12

also your personal. Journey of becoming

3:14

involved in advocacy and education.

3:17

So learn. So I was

3:19

for the better part of

3:21

two decades. He signed chest

3:23

and my main focus was

3:26

conducting human health and ecological

3:28

risk assessments. Which means am

3:30

I was looking at environmental

3:32

exposure. Or both humans

3:34

and animals to chemicals in various

3:36

media B S soil said a

3:38

man surface water groundwater so worked

3:40

really closely with engineers to figure

3:42

out what their arrest Was there

3:45

a hazard slider, people or animals

3:47

and if there was, how are

3:49

we going to clean it up?

3:51

So really already worked in

3:53

that public health space for

3:55

almost two decades. About fifteen

3:58

years ago. Personally

4:00

my my how the five year old son

4:02

Joseph to flu. During the

4:04

two thousand and nine each, one

4:06

and when can damage? So I

4:09

kind of pivoted in the public

4:11

health space and became more and

4:13

more involved in immunization space and

4:15

then then eventually became my career

4:17

and henceforth I'm now working at

4:19

Vaccinate. Your family. And it

4:21

was really my personal journey that you know

4:23

let my personal pass pass and that led

4:25

me to death because see that as happen

4:28

soon you think oh my goodness I'm I

4:30

the only one and then you find out

4:32

you're not and your mission and my them

4:34

become the to make sure that know it

4:36

doesn't happen other people I just have to

4:38

take a moment to to say i'm I'm

4:41

so very sorry for your loss I I

4:43

can't even process that you know as as

4:45

a mother I I. To such

4:47

an unimaginable loss. And I think you're

4:50

really honoring your son's memory by doing

4:52

this important, meaningful work that is changing

4:54

the lives of so many. So thank

4:56

you so much for for what you're

4:59

doing! So sorry, can I ask? am

5:01

I have a bunch of questions I

5:03

want to ask? you? Buy. Were.

5:06

You vaccine hesitant at any point in

5:08

your life Now an outsider. Just a

5:10

little bit about just and story So

5:13

chill said. I have always been pro

5:15

vaccine. I think as a scientist as

5:17

a protective mother I was vaccinated as

5:20

a child. I just looked at vaccines

5:22

and thought about vaccines is this is

5:24

something that you do right? So so

5:27

said during the fall of two thousand

5:29

and nine he actually did. We see

5:31

this is an awesome vaccine. But

5:34

that vaccine did not offer protection

5:36

against the pandemic strain of each

5:38

one. And once said, oh noes

5:41

you remember been in two thousand

5:43

and nine the monovalent Flu vaccine.

5:45

Came out unfortunately. After

5:47

in my community at least after just

5:50

the passed away. So. Although

5:52

he was vaccinated, he essentially, like

5:54

so many others, did not have

5:57

protection against H One N One

5:59

and. I'm interview. Was young

6:01

too, so you know he had no

6:03

previous exposure to rely on like some

6:06

older adults Dead, right? right? So. Always.

6:09

Pro Vaccine. But certainly I can tell

6:11

you honestly. probably the one of the

6:13

most important points I always share about

6:15

just a story is. He

6:18

was in the hospital for ten days. After

6:21

he passed away in the ice you I

6:23

remember looking at the attending physicians and she

6:25

said you know she's the eighty fifth child

6:27

to die from flu this year And I

6:29

said. So to die from

6:31

Slim say. I mean I literally had

6:34

not heard of. This happening. I thought

6:36

it only happens older. Adults How wrong

6:38

was I and it was just

6:40

you don't know what you don't

6:42

know and so that for me

6:44

was really it was an eye

6:46

opening moments for services series. Would

6:48

I? one of the things I

6:50

find so powerful about your stories

6:52

that despite the fact that Joseph

6:54

was vaccinated right against the flu

6:57

and he still passed away from

6:59

flu, that you continue to be

7:01

an advocate for vaccines including the

7:03

Flu vaccine which is a testament

7:05

to your understanding and of course

7:07

the. Fact that vaccines are not

7:09

magic bullets right arm and A

7:11

and they're they're not perfect. Com

7:13

anyone who claims that they are

7:15

perfect or and hundred percent effective,

7:17

his eyes Ill informed that that's

7:20

not accurate and they know you

7:22

mentioned a little bit about a

7:24

vaccine technology and that being that

7:26

him monovalent. Now the flu vaccines.

7:28

Interesting the Am: the vaccines are

7:30

falling through change right now where

7:33

they were pretty really quite your.

7:35

They allege that because one of

7:37

the strains. A to the Yamagata strain

7:39

that was one of the strains that

7:41

the flu vaccine protects against. It has

7:43

not been detected in years. There were

7:45

moving that from the for formulation it

7:47

will now be try valid moving forward

7:49

self I have some some ah content

7:51

in the works to help you know

7:53

set to help. Inform feet people

7:56

about that shift. So. Let's

7:58

now much system. Go back to

8:01

Measles specifically. I'm I'm I'm sort

8:03

of blown away that this is

8:05

something that were even talking about.

8:07

Now you know it feels like

8:10

we're really regret saying. and I

8:12

know for so many of us

8:14

it's so frustrating because we know

8:17

we have this incredible tool, the

8:19

Mmr vaccine, which after. To Jos

8:21

is is ninety Seven. Percent

8:24

effective and that now we're

8:26

we're still seeing these cases

8:28

crop up and again this

8:30

terrible case out of Canada

8:32

of that, the child fatality

8:34

to why measles in particular

8:36

raising so many alarms in

8:38

the public health world right

8:40

now. Well, I think what

8:42

we're seeing is unfortunately a

8:44

result of declining vaccination rates.

8:47

So we know measles is

8:49

very contagious of not the

8:51

most contagious infectious disease. Nine

8:53

out of ten people who are

8:56

exposed if they're not protected adequately

8:58

will become infected. So and very

9:00

concerning because like you said you

9:03

know back in two thousand the

9:05

Us declared like measles was eliminated.

9:07

We did not have continuous disease

9:09

transmission for over twelve months. We.

9:12

Now are you know, at one

9:14

hundred and thirty nine cases in

9:16

twenty twenty four, we've got ten

9:19

outbreaks in twenty states. It's just

9:21

really kind of incredulous. And what

9:23

does so? this is number one

9:25

shall. Infectious measles can be. A

9:28

number to what is it

9:30

impacts on even see just

9:32

a slight decline in vaccination

9:34

rates, right? So the Cdc

9:36

obviously puts out there data

9:38

for the twenty two, twenty

9:40

three year we went from

9:42

ninety five percent covers rates

9:44

and ninety three. That.

9:46

Is just enough. It doesn't seem like

9:48

much in the context of them right

9:50

or fact thinking like, oh, it's a

9:52

person, It's two percent. It's not a

9:54

big deal, but this is what we're

9:56

seeing these needles outbreaks so this is

9:58

a big job. We have people

10:00

who aren't vaccinated. you know, Unfortunately and

10:03

again, whether that people were exposed to

10:05

in the community, these diseases are only

10:07

a plane ride away. We have people

10:10

coming in from outside the country. Is

10:13

as well. And it's the you

10:15

alluded to at the pins,

10:18

heat and facts or of

10:20

the are not for needle

10:22

is just is so high

10:24

it's it's so highly infectious

10:26

and contagious. That's why even

10:28

the small did in in

10:30

vaccine uptake make a huge

10:32

difference. Three can you talk

10:34

a little bit because some

10:36

people will say well as

10:38

the vaccine is so offensive.

10:40

Why does it matter? You

10:42

know if my kid doesn't.

10:44

Get the vaccine if is so offensive you're

10:46

a kid, will be protected so maybe it's

10:48

just talking a little bit about the concept

10:51

of herd immunity which I have spoken about

10:53

before and we have lots supposed to be

10:55

one. A search our database best. I think

10:57

that it's an important question and one that

11:00

we should address. It is. I

11:02

like to say vaccination as a team

11:04

sport. I actually didn't claim that phrase.

11:06

Someone shared it with me years ago

11:08

and I was like a dance. Exactly

11:10

a perfect way to put it. And

11:12

when I tell joseph story I always

11:14

say i don't know who his patient.

11:16

Zero last race somebody gave just says

11:18

the flu virus. Unfortunately he passed a

11:20

man. Sells for me:

11:22

When I get vaccinated when I

11:24

wish, make sure that my family

11:26

members are vaccinated. It's not just

11:29

because obviously I want to stay

11:31

healthy each. it's because I feel

11:33

a responsibility to other people that

11:35

I may come into contact with,

11:37

whether that my loved ones, it's

11:40

community members. So vaccination and herd

11:42

immunity community immunity whenever we want

11:44

to college is really important because

11:46

they're also people in our community

11:48

through can't get vaccinated for whatever

11:51

reason. Re maybe they're going

11:53

to cancer treatment or maybe they're

11:55

immunocompromised for whatever reason. It's

11:58

up to us to help protect those

12:00

people that are especially vulnerable homes on

12:02

and I think it's just you know

12:04

it's a way for as to how

12:06

to care of one another. That's the

12:08

way I think about it. Since.

12:10

Cerise, I wanna learn more about

12:13

vaccinate your family. My understanding is

12:15

that you're doing that or are

12:17

you work with community organizations? Community

12:19

health workers. I'm curious to hear

12:22

about some of these. the work

12:24

that you're doing, the approaches that

12:26

you take on through and by

12:28

science. I do a lot of

12:31

communication directly to the public on,

12:33

but I think it's quite powerful

12:35

that you work with his community

12:37

based organizations because then they can

12:39

serve trusted. Messenger is right and

12:42

really deploy message or messages to

12:44

that communities that they serve to.

12:46

So can we talk a little

12:49

bit about that? Absolutely. So one

12:51

of our T programs me have

12:53

his card or vaccination Community Navigator

12:56

programs and it's was created for

12:58

community health workers by community health

13:00

workers. and community health workers are

13:03

people from their community. And

13:05

they represent their communities and they're

13:07

out there. doing the work on

13:10

the grounds should educate their community

13:12

members snatch just about vaccines, obviously

13:14

about health and wellness various topics

13:17

but community health workers are really

13:19

they play a really important. Parts

13:21

in the health care landscape. Because

13:24

especially when we talk about

13:26

underserved populations, people who may

13:29

live in rural areas are

13:31

people who live in areas

13:33

where access is an issue.

13:35

Community health workers at Judge

13:37

such importing worse. During the

13:39

Cover nineteen pandemic stem, we

13:42

really felt compelled to make

13:44

sure that they were represented.

13:47

And supported so. The Vaccination Community

13:49

Navigator programs was something that we

13:51

collaborated with one of our partners

13:54

on Gmt Lung or Election that's

13:56

Down in Texas. I

14:01

know I'm it's. Silliness

14:03

Jean S in my colleague Robin

14:06

Corral actually got together and I

14:08

should say we have to Community

14:10

health workers and community health worker

14:12

instructors on staff to vaccinate your

14:14

family's Robin is line in Merlin

14:16

Rumors is another wine and the

14:18

next of how serious were taking

14:21

at like these folks are really

14:23

employees so Robin in been in

14:25

a Gml that together. In

14:27

September of Twenty Two and to

14:30

the pilot program down in Texas

14:32

and it was wildly successful, so

14:34

much so that we received some

14:37

funding last year to launch it

14:39

nationwide. and it has just been

14:41

tremendous. in so definitely you know

14:44

we're We're continuing to push their

14:46

forwards, but the idea behind it

14:48

is to support community health workers.

14:51

You know and with these measles outbreaks

14:54

worse hearing on the ground like they're

14:56

concerned they're getting question like what? what

14:58

are we telling people you know is

15:00

this point to be as bad as

15:03

close as people are asking us to

15:05

the so it's really important as through

15:07

this program staff. Were not

15:09

only providing them with educational offerings

15:11

we have a four part core

15:14

curriculum, but we also have community

15:16

of practice meetings. We have an

15:18

online community where they can com

15:20

and share resources and collaborate on

15:22

and it's just a way for

15:24

us to kind of keep those

15:26

connections dallying and make sure that

15:28

people have the tools and resources

15:30

at the community level that are

15:32

needed. Business. So. I wanna

15:35

talk a little bit about some

15:37

of the reasons for vaccine hesitancy

15:39

and that you know it's at

15:41

At and this is really I

15:43

decided that the scene here I'm

15:45

not pointing fingers at certain communities

15:47

where we do see of take

15:49

his lower in other certain faith

15:51

faith communities where we're seeing as

15:53

he gets lower for example and

15:55

it really does take a very

15:57

tailored approach because and I'm just

15:59

kind of often a little tantrum

16:01

here. but we've been a flu

16:03

vaccine education campaign and it was

16:05

all data driven might the we

16:08

kicked things off with surveys and

16:10

focus groups really? First of course

16:12

identify which groups are the most

16:14

vaccine hesitant and then understand the

16:16

reasons for hesitancy and just skipping

16:18

a heavier. Make a long story

16:20

short still really to key groups

16:22

that emerged one in with. African.

16:25

Americans regardless of age or gender.

16:27

And in the second, was young

16:29

white men living primarily in less

16:31

ah, the rural south and Midwest

16:33

certain regions of the of the

16:35

Us. And then when we dug

16:37

deeper, we did some qualitative research.

16:39

Some focus groups are really understand

16:41

the reasons for hesitancy. They were

16:44

totally different, and I'm sure this

16:46

is not all that surprising to

16:48

user either that or to our

16:50

listeners, but the African American participants

16:52

really voiced concern about the ingredients.

16:54

You know what is being put

16:56

in my body. This is a

16:59

population that you know is understandably

17:01

distrustful of the scientific and medical

17:03

establishment. Besides horrible things that are

17:06

path like the Tuskegee Syphilis, experimental

17:08

kinds of of of other examples

17:10

of I could give and so

17:13

he was. It really interesting to

17:15

hear any genuine concern about ingredients.

17:17

right? But then for the

17:20

young. White Man. It was a

17:22

completely different story. It was much more.

17:25

Libertarian concerns about freedom and yeah,

17:27

I don't want to be told

17:29

that that I have to get

17:31

a vaccine sell a lot of

17:33

concerns about vaccine mandates, but then

17:35

also it tied back to this

17:37

mistrust of gotten the I'm in

17:40

particular the. Cdc in the Sci Cel.

17:42

I just I think. It's really cool

17:44

what you're doing this this community

17:47

based approach because then those organizations

17:49

can tailor their education, their outreach,

17:51

their engagements based on the specific

17:54

concerns about their community? So can

17:56

you share a little bit about

17:58

Light. You're hearing from

18:01

the partners that you're working with with.

18:03

do some the ground, what are some

18:05

at a concert you say you're here

18:08

And yeah I think you highlighted a

18:10

lot as really raj concerns that go

18:12

across dispatcher mom are talking about immunizations.

18:14

I think trust is definitely a plus.

18:17

think one in I'm so glad you

18:19

brought that up because that is immense

18:21

Community Health workers are trusted messengers trust

18:24

of such a big issue. In luck

18:26

I I get it. You know there's

18:28

a lot of information and misinformation. In

18:31

people are like who do I trust?

18:33

Where do I go for credible information?

18:35

So them Ryan Lee understandable. You.

18:37

Know in terms of their concerns

18:39

about vaccines, safety and effectiveness continued

18:41

to be the top concerns. I

18:43

think what's when we were to

18:46

trusted messengers of the community level

18:48

tear point? We have to number

18:50

one. What are the barrier strikers?

18:52

It's not a one size fits

18:54

all when we talk about campaigns

18:56

in education right? Okay with the

18:58

audience because it's not just as

19:00

cookie cutter thing that we're in

19:02

a glass there were we have

19:04

to really make serves. Are these

19:06

materials culturally and linguistically appropriate? Who's

19:09

delivering The man says race So

19:11

all of those things are really

19:13

important. But I seem to try

19:15

to genius to rise to the

19:17

time when we talk about vaccine

19:19

confidence. It's no confidence not only

19:21

in the vaccines, but sheer plane.

19:24

Again, the people who are recommending

19:26

the vaccines. we also have to

19:28

think about access. You know, one

19:30

thing. that kind of. And

19:32

someone says vaccine hesitancy? It's I'm

19:35

always like whoa, wait a second.

19:37

It's simply a matter of convenience

19:39

and access stairs. So many people

19:41

who are like. I just to

19:43

get a vaccine because. It wasn't my

19:46

list or it's I went to my doctor

19:48

and he didn't start the vaccine eggs and

19:50

makes to the pharmacy or there's not a

19:52

pharmacy. Near me stay and we have to

19:54

really chill down of one of those barriers

19:56

I am. So happy that you're saying that

19:59

and I want to call out a friend

20:01

of mine and amazing science! Communicator Eye

20:03

Doctor Nini. Munoz she runs the

20:05

page many and the brain and she

20:08

just says it's really fantastic Palace I'll

20:10

link to it and are show now

20:12

it's Am about. And. He backs

20:14

and vaccine has didn't see and

20:16

then to your point series of.

20:18

there's also this access issue I

20:21

worry and I've honestly been guilty

20:23

of this in the past That

20:25

a lot of us with science

20:27

backgrounds are we. We get very

20:29

frustrated, right? Will we see up,

20:31

take drop and vaccine rates dropped?

20:33

It's like what's wrong with you?

20:35

You know we have this amazing

20:37

aren't you getting at, but it's

20:39

often a lot more nuanced, a

20:41

lot more complex. I think that

20:43

we. Have to do better at scientists

20:45

and science communicators that we can't just

20:48

write people off on. And you know

20:50

because there are some really legitimate questions

20:52

and concerns and as a parent you

20:54

to we want any sure than what

20:56

we're putting. our child's body is safe

20:59

and it's been studied and were nice.

21:01

You know doing harm so I get

21:03

it and I think overall it. I

21:05

love hearing you speak and the work

21:07

you're doing. He really driven by. Empathy

21:10

and the goal is to

21:12

help. You know,

21:14

educate people, break down barriers

21:16

and get the vaccine rates

21:19

up. But you're not coming

21:21

from this place of judgement

21:23

or this like top down

21:25

view know like you have

21:27

to do this because that

21:29

people do not respond well

21:31

to and it's understandable. Re

21:33

selling Stack, Keep up the

21:35

good work. There's a sense

21:37

amazing play. So what do

21:39

you see as the biggest

21:41

challenges and threats to vaccine

21:43

preventable diseases? Today and twenty twenty

21:46

four. Oh gosh, there's a list

21:48

I will try to china give

21:50

you my cat seal I think.

21:53

Misinformation. Continues to be

21:55

a problem Race again people need

21:58

to know where can they go

22:00

for credible evidence based information. So.

22:03

Plants. In the people that

22:05

are pushing that misunderstood formation, they're

22:07

quite sammy sprained so so we're

22:09

doing what we can to educate

22:11

folks. But I think misinformation continues

22:13

to be an obstacle that we

22:15

will continue to rafol s I

22:17

think in terms of interest again

22:19

working with people a not just

22:22

see your point going and in

22:24

telling them what to do but

22:26

involving than in the big see

22:28

any. Giving. Them a seat at

22:30

the table in the beginning as the

22:32

planning stages rights and a lot of

22:35

it is listening. We have the expertise

22:37

but so much that it's just filling

22:39

and and listening. What is going on,

22:42

what are your concerns and less. It's

22:44

okay to have concerns. It's

22:46

okay to have questions and as a parent.

22:49

I would tell you both personally and

22:51

professionally. Have questions asked

22:53

questions. That's what we're here

22:56

for. At the end of

22:58

the j, all we're trying

23:00

to do is to give

23:02

people the information they need

23:04

to make an informed decision.

23:06

That's it. I wanna respect

23:08

people's autonomy. I wanna respect

23:10

where people are coming, France

23:12

and no judgement. absolutely Since

23:14

I think Seems achieves first

23:16

complacency. On. Lack

23:18

of were all I get. it

23:20

could be nineteen. were all little

23:22

bit cities that assuring about vaccines.

23:24

It seems like every five minutes

23:26

it's like oh okay now this

23:28

now that's what we need to

23:30

do is just keep on keepin.

23:33

I'm cheap giving people the information

23:35

they need. Speak clear and

23:37

concise and transparent. Follow

23:40

the science. Another important thing

23:42

that we do here at

23:44

vaccinate, your family is storytelling.

23:46

Sciences. Grades. Love.

23:49

This science share the science

23:51

all day long but vaccination

23:53

is also an emotional issue.

23:56

And. Other days here and you're ready for

23:58

it. Go to where check. That is going

24:00

to dinner and any for what next and I

24:02

was safe or it. That's. Where Bank

24:04

of America can out for your financial to

24:06

do? Bank of America has experts ready to

24:09

help get you closer to your goals, get

24:11

started of one of our local financial centers,

24:13

or Twenty Four Seven and or mobile taking

24:15

f. Fertility. Senior You A Bank of

24:17

America decade. Has to do. What? Would

24:19

you like to do little thinking of her out

24:21

and including like a disease that the to date

24:23

with Nathan make of America any my breast yes

24:26

he. And I can tell

24:28

you personally, as many as. He.

24:31

Can I go a nice thought out

24:33

all this information on the science and

24:35

to bike? Yap yap yap I'd southern

24:38

my story and I like. Where.

24:40

Do I go to get a flu shot? Whose.

24:43

Side are any. Science is definitely

24:45

an important part of the conversation,

24:47

but when you combine storytelling with

24:50

that you're you're touching their heart,

24:52

your relating to dance, and again

24:54

as long as you lead with

24:56

and the seats and respects again

24:58

we're not doing this to tell

25:01

you what to do, we just

25:03

want you to understand the susceptibility

25:05

and the severity. and that's of

25:07

storytelling. Does their stories of last

25:09

like mine, Snares. Also stories

25:11

of survivor sap but when nerds hold

25:14

and an impact the way it's meant

25:16

wind power the percentage was receiving a

25:18

right like okay now I know what

25:21

I need to now so that I

25:23

can make an informed decision about vaccination

25:25

for myself, for my child, my loved

25:27

ones. I. Love that so

25:30

much. And there's a reason that

25:32

defines communication is even a thing

25:34

now because it's not just about

25:37

what you're saying, it's how you're

25:39

saying you're right. If people just

25:41

wanted the sky and stayed open

25:43

up a sign, tax buffet is

25:45

more than that. We're human beings.

25:48

there's You know, decision making is

25:50

such a complex process, right? And

25:52

as you said, there's the information

25:54

and the facts and the science.

25:57

Then there's also the emotional element.

25:59

The human, Alan. And I think that's

26:01

yeah, that spot. On it's so yeah

26:03

he lives or anyone not diminished or

26:05

real Quick story with yeah I'm good.

26:07

I'm going to be vulnerable with you

26:10

until you have them at my own

26:12

story. So. My. Daughter. When she

26:14

was twelve, it was time for her

26:16

to get her Hpv vaccine. So. I'm

26:18

sitting in my pediatricians office. snow.

26:20

Mind you, I'm a scientist. I

26:22

have lost. One. Of my

26:24

children to be vaccine preventable disease

26:26

I am a protective parent. I

26:28

know vaccines. I know. science. To.

26:31

To some oxygen and said okay, it's

26:34

time for and the first dose and

26:36

Hpv vaccine Back then it was at

26:38

the height of misinformation. I

26:40

will be honest, I took the be

26:42

for a moment. I was like having

26:45

a panic attack lengths. My brain

26:47

is telling me this but my comfort

26:49

level isn't there. So I said to

26:51

my producers and I said can you

26:53

please go out to me a bunch

26:55

literature? bring it back in this room.

26:58

In my sit here and talk

27:00

about it A we did in

27:02

my daughter.her sights she finished her

27:04

series put in that moment. I

27:07

was appearing in i was a human

27:09

being, I was in the scientists I

27:11

wasn't someone who works in public have

27:14

so for me I never lose sight

27:16

of the fact of how most you

27:18

know in some sense.wrenching and can be

27:20

for people to make decisions about vaccination.

27:23

I'm so happy that you share

27:25

that and there's absolutely no judgment

27:27

you were wearing your mama bear

27:29

had an eye on I'd totally

27:31

totally get that is interesting that

27:33

you bring. Up the Hpv vaccine

27:36

because. My mother actually

27:38

and I'd I'd this was Am while

27:40

I was born and sharing a lot

27:43

information out how old am I am

27:45

sent thirty eight this year on the

27:47

So I had a bad back when

27:49

I was a teenager. ah I remember

27:52

my mom. She decided

27:54

not to get me the

27:56

vaccine and it's because she

27:59

was reading. All of that

28:01

information, the misinformation, and and that

28:03

the overall take away for her

28:05

with it's just too new, we

28:07

don't have the data, we don't

28:09

have the research, and actually ultimately

28:11

I ended up. Getting Hpv

28:14

and. Going through this whole thing

28:16

need I had a precancerous cells as have

28:18

the capacity I had I eat out. I

28:21

ended up being totally fine and I've since

28:23

cleared the virus by the just the and

28:25

a different how come to the very same

28:27

scenario that you found yourself. and although my

28:30

mother does not have a scientific background which

28:32

am just a little bit of a distinction

28:34

fights I get it and there's no judgment.

28:36

I understand. Especially. When

28:39

you're dealing with this.

28:42

Why old circus of misinformation on

28:44

social media and I should me

28:46

with the other the sometimes and

28:48

I'm glad you made the distinction.

28:50

I've talked about it previously between

28:53

misinformation and disinformation. Obviously it's intentionality

28:55

and people who are into knowingly

28:57

put out that information as this

28:59

information. but I think a lot

29:01

of times misinformation this is out

29:03

there. in we shared by people

29:05

who actually don't have bad intentions.

29:07

but they'll you know they'll share

29:10

something about us, vaccine ingredient or

29:12

oh. You know they'll take A. The

29:14

big thing that I talk about is

29:16

the and there's the vaccine adverse event

29:18

reporting system And how many people reported

29:20

adverse events is the vaccines cause x,

29:23

y, and Z. Not. Realizing

29:25

of course and we talked about

29:27

this previously on on by science.

29:29

By that it's a passive reporting

29:31

system. As you know anyone can

29:33

fall reports we know. I mean

29:35

first of all there are some

29:37

reports that we we know our

29:39

falsified, but then even that legitimate

29:41

reports that's an example of thoroughly

29:43

should not causation. and would it

29:46

is it's an early public health

29:48

surveillance system. Simone, we see each

29:50

friends if there is enough shaken

29:52

a particular outcome being reported for

29:54

a vaccine. Is rigorously

29:56

investigated and vaccines will

29:59

be. You know, told

30:01

right away if there is

30:03

a legitimate safety concern, brace

30:05

on. But it's just an

30:07

example of people will take

30:09

that you that there's reports.

30:12

You know, and then we share to their

30:14

social media and that leads to all kinds

30:16

of concerns. And I'd I'd get it. I

30:18

get it so well we're doing is we're

30:21

trying to counter. With with

30:23

a good information but it's top ones

30:25

the out with the front when the

30:27

horse has already left the sable or

30:29

the bar and whenever metics it's of

30:32

you know and I and I mean

30:34

it to you know where one of

30:36

my friends aren't you know and a

30:38

social media channels will share something quite

30:40

innocently but you're like oh stitch actually

30:43

not correct way so we have to.

30:45

It's hard to be a good consumer

30:47

ah of information and some people do

30:49

it innocently because they don't know and

30:51

I tried. To use that isn't. An

30:54

opportunity for conversation, right?

30:56

So. I wanna go through

30:58

just briefly at Eat. Some

31:01

parents will delay vaccines. Or

31:03

they whoa mean for. Go them

31:05

altogether A space them out whenever

31:07

there's all kinds of stuff out

31:09

there saying that you should see

31:11

that vaccines more and so actually

31:13

working on a police right now

31:15

that will likely be published by

31:17

that time This episode airs and

31:19

it's one and kind of walk

31:22

through for any folks who are

31:24

listening and maybe have some questions

31:26

about whether that's a good idea

31:28

that just want to underscore that

31:30

the current vaccine schedule is optimized

31:32

for I'm immune system development as

31:34

well. As signing for when kids

31:36

would most likely encounter a disease,

31:38

so delay or spacing out vaccines

31:40

from what is recommended lead kids

31:42

who are often the most vulnerable

31:44

risk. Ah, let's see what else

31:46

I want to emphasize here and

31:48

in in the police I'll go

31:50

through exactly why is a like

31:52

them? The first dose of the

31:54

Measles vaccine is recommended at twelve

31:56

to fifteen months and why is

31:58

that the game. They were

32:01

administered at this time to avoid

32:03

interference. From maternal antibodies to

32:05

ensure. That the infant's immune system

32:07

is mature enough on and also

32:10

to provide protection. but before potential

32:12

exposure. right arm that I wanted

32:14

to jump ahead year sorry. I'm

32:16

scrolling through the content I'm working

32:19

on here. I guess you know

32:21

there's this idea that our kids

32:23

immune systems can be overwhelmed that

32:25

they're too many shots or the

32:28

exposed to too many things And

32:30

answer is no an infant. Kids

32:32

you know little ones are exposed

32:34

to massive amounts of antigens. From

32:36

the moment we are born. I mean

32:39

even be like taking your kids to

32:41

the playground there. Are

32:44

more than they would. They were an

32:46

exact all of their bags the all

32:48

those schedule vaccines at the very same

32:50

time So I mean I I understand

32:53

in theory that concern but in reality

32:55

that's just not a thing the immune

32:57

system is not going to be overwhelmed

32:59

and just going back to measles to

33:02

civically to the Mmr vaccine. Has

33:04

been getting a lot of questions. I

33:06

mean obviously people are reading the news,

33:08

they're getting this nervous about the increasing

33:10

Keith and for now especially this this

33:12

bad Chelsea tell it he and in

33:14

Canada time children receive and Jos of

33:17

the vaccine or a lead. And

33:19

the answer is yes. Says it's

33:21

typical. timing of the Mmr vaccine

33:23

is that a child will get

33:25

there are still is at twelve

33:27

to fifteen months of age and

33:30

then dose to between four to

33:32

six years of age. but the

33:34

vaccine time be offered early depending

33:36

on certain circumstances and reasons for

33:38

and for potentially. Getting. That

33:41

have a shot early is as

33:43

farm is, there's an outbreak, especially

33:45

if you're living in an area

33:47

with an outbreak ah were extra

33:49

protection is necessary. International travel to

33:51

areas with measles, rest, or of

33:53

course to catch up on a

33:55

delayed vaccine schedule so dose one

33:58

can be given as early. Six

34:00

you eleven months of age and

34:02

used to can be given as

34:05

early as twenty eight days or

34:07

four weeks after the first dose

34:09

whenever they get bathurst Joe's per

34:11

the cdc. If an infant receive

34:14

our first dose of the Mmr

34:16

vaccine at eleven months or younger

34:18

patients then follow the recommended schedule

34:20

and get another Joe's and twelve

34:23

to fifteen months and then a

34:25

final Joe's at for. through six

34:27

years, however, if a child

34:29

receives only the second dose

34:32

or relief. That will likely

34:34

be considered an early Dell is

34:36

not an Extra Dose That again

34:38

this is just something of a

34:40

gray area, so it's something to

34:42

talk about with your child's pediatrician.

34:44

Sorry, what else? Is there anything

34:46

else that we didn't talk about

34:48

today that you wish more people

34:51

knew about? Vaccines are about Measles,

34:53

in particular that you want to

34:55

share with folks. I

34:57

would love if people would

35:00

start thinking about vaccines is.

35:02

Just a way we. Stay healthy,

35:04

may split. Between

35:06

we all consider like a my sleeping

35:08

enough for hopefully we're concerned and they

35:11

sleeping enough for my eating at the

35:13

giant race. When it comes to our

35:15

children are they you know wearing their

35:17

how much when they're riding their bikes?

35:19

Am I holding their him and across

35:21

the street suite you all of these

35:23

things to keep ourselves and our loved

35:25

ones healthy. And scenes are just

35:27

another way to do that. And I think

35:29

you know sometimes you take it for granted.

35:32

Like a my generation. Like I said,

35:34

I was fully vaccinated. Here.

35:36

I am a healthy adult. knock

35:38

on line ah you know so

35:41

I just want people to try

35:43

to start thinking about it like

35:45

match ends year earlier planning vaccines

35:48

are so thoroughly tested their stays

35:50

there as suggests there nine one

35:52

hundred percent. But

35:54

what's really important about

35:57

vaccines is a help

35:59

reduce. Severe outcomes like hospitalization

36:01

and that she's and cheaper do

36:04

not identify as being high rest

36:06

even people with chronic medical condition.

36:08

But the reality of it is

36:11

and Justice is a perfect example

36:13

of this. We

36:15

are all susceptible in some way,

36:17

shape or form, even healthy children

36:19

and adults. You know there's nothing

36:21

that puts us in a bubble

36:24

and makes us uncomfortable, even though

36:26

we wanted to think that whom

36:28

he seemed oh, we're we're young,

36:30

were how feeds. I'm not gonna

36:32

be that one person who gets

36:34

really set. We

36:37

have a library of stories of

36:39

actually your family stories just like

36:41

joe Sense of loss in survivorship.

36:44

So many of these people

36:47

were just like just as.

36:49

Hell see no underlying list conditions

36:51

are so I lead start thinking

36:54

about vaccines as a way. We

36:56

say how each you know we

36:58

put on our seatbelts when we

37:00

get in the car or at

37:02

least he said is it so

37:04

last year now so less intimate

37:06

like me. Any good If you

37:08

some questions and concerns that is

37:11

totally okay we want to make

37:13

sure you have access to that

37:15

information if you're having trouble finding

37:17

vaccines. If you're under

37:19

insert or I mean surge there

37:21

is the Vaccines for Children program.

37:24

weird Soldier and you qualify eighteen

37:26

years in Yonkers can get free

37:28

vaccines on so there are a

37:31

lot of programs out there that

37:33

if cost is a barrier for

37:35

you or your family. There's

37:38

ways since it's to address

37:40

the series, can you say

37:42

one more time what that

37:45

program is for children under

37:47

eighteen? Yeah, it's called the

37:49

vaccines for Children program that

37:51

auto any of be recommended

37:53

vaccines for children and adolescents

37:56

are available through that programs

37:58

are using so. Then I

38:00

will give you a link in France

38:02

you can scary in the now it's yeah

38:04

the will be my people to know. You

38:07

know thirds maybe living in an underserved area

38:09

are they don't have insurance or they don't

38:11

have a medical homes years away for

38:13

them to get access to those axes. I'm

38:16

so happy to hear that you have been

38:18

a know offhand just out of curiosity of

38:20

cozied is included in that. Second

38:24

question, I believe yes because now

38:26

it is an ace. Yeah, He

38:28

recommended ahead. Yeah, okay and I'm.

38:30

I'm asking because the Cdc just and or

38:32

it's actually sorry. I believe it is ending

38:34

imminently. it's bridge access program which and of

38:36

I'd get in August. Sorry, go on and

38:39

I was really upset to hear that fight.

38:41

You know there's been very low demand for

38:43

the cause of vaccines. I think there are

38:46

other reasons some funding issues that that program

38:48

is ending, so I'm thrilled to hear there

38:50

is another resource I will happily share to

38:52

show notes and I will share it in

38:55

our stories and make sure to get the

38:57

word out. One more thing if you are

38:59

looking. Back seen starts as you

39:01

can go on there and find

39:03

out of the vaccine to because

39:05

you know there are steadily qualified

39:07

health centers. There's rural health centers

39:10

so spare are tools available, resources

39:12

available. It's just a matter of

39:14

getting connected to the of right

39:16

snow. I was actually getting ready

39:18

to wrap up. But I have

39:20

one more question for you because

39:22

we've been talking a lot about

39:24

mistrust distrust of the summer a

39:26

man and Cdc, the Sch, as

39:28

well as farm pharma companies. Who

39:30

are producing these vaccines is anything? What is

39:33

what would you say to a person who

39:35

says why I'm up and get any of

39:37

the any vaccines? I don't trust these agencies.

39:39

I don't trust far my unit or sell

39:42

it as these these products they don't care

39:44

about our how they're trying to keep us

39:46

safe. You know they could sell as the

39:48

cure. You know that lot of these things

39:51

that we hear. How would you respond to

39:53

that. Oh gosh,

39:55

that such a hard question. but

39:57

I've seen. You. Know.

40:00

The evidence is there to science

40:02

is there and I get to

40:04

trust issue. We all have that

40:06

circle of trust stray like we

40:08

all have those people that we

40:10

go to that when we have

40:13

tough questions. South's if you have

40:15

a trusted health care provider. Ask

40:18

them questions. Dance Winter! Therefore, if

40:20

you don't have a medical home

40:22

and you're looking for information, vaccinate

40:24

your family, that are. You can

40:27

visit our website. We. Have

40:29

a lot of information on their

40:31

I would say again. for me,

40:33

vaccination is a way we keep

40:36

ourselves and our families Se it

40:38

isn't just important as. Sleeping.

40:41

Eating nutritious foods all of those other

40:43

ways that we take care of ourselves

40:45

and our family. So I would say

40:48

make it a priority is I understand

40:50

you may have concerns that is entirely

40:52

okay. Just please please. Please

40:54

seek out of me source where you can

40:56

get the answers to those questions. Yeah,

40:59

I think that's that's all. Really

41:01

great guidance. I think what's the

41:03

any that's been the most challenging

41:06

thing for me? It's like how

41:08

do you address is fundamental mistrust,

41:10

distrust of these agencies are companies.

41:13

Ah, and it's tough because I'm

41:15

not going to sit here and

41:17

say that You know Pharma is

41:20

motivated by humanitarian. Aid

41:22

in. These are for profit that is

41:24

a for profit entity in pharmaceutical company.

41:26

Am I talking about The Hermit? Right

41:29

now and it's it's tough. but at

41:31

the same time I would say that.

41:33

I I knew be hard pressed

41:36

to find a person or an

41:38

organization that is in Edo. There

41:40

there is always an element of

41:42

financial viability and and profit right

41:44

arm. And I think the attack

41:46

said i sometimes taken, it's sometimes

41:49

effective. It is not so great

41:51

it building the trust in those

41:53

agencies are companies but it's helpful

41:55

to help people confront some of

41:57

their own positive. Just an answer.

42:00

It is when now you know

42:02

they won't get a vaccine but

42:04

then they'll take a supplement which

42:06

eat. our own Supplement Industry is

42:08

a multi what trillion dollar industry.

42:10

at this point the wellness industry

42:12

and the difference is it been?

42:14

they're both for profit, right? Pharma

42:16

and the supplement industry, but one

42:18

is very closely regulated about. that's

42:20

the big difference a helping people.

42:22

It's like you're so willing to

42:24

take that supply manner that. Powder.

42:27

Room whatever milkshake or whatever it is

42:29

a regular average you know but they

42:31

those are not regulated for study for

42:33

safety and effectiveness and and held to

42:35

that same standards so I am in

42:37

a bad sometimes yeah he not just

42:40

stab at seem to the i think

42:42

about is quite often to lake. Doesn't.

42:45

Like you are shampoo or

42:47

conditioner. Our body lotions are

42:50

slows. that are the things

42:52

in our household. splayed. We're

42:55

not. Anywhere near as prescriptive

42:57

when it comes to. I'm not sure

42:59

what soon as shampoo I don't know

43:01

by one uses a bunch ingredients in

43:04

there. I can't even pronounce that. I'm

43:06

like. Share. But

43:08

when it comes to vaccines were

43:10

like get out the magnifying glass

43:12

if you start for a moment

43:14

in sync about that and I'm

43:16

provide him in jail. I'm not

43:18

knocking vitamins, I take my mouth,

43:20

I buy appetites, but you're absolutely

43:23

right that we don't seem to

43:25

give a second thought. To some of

43:27

the products that we come into contact with

43:29

up a daily basis. but when it comes

43:31

to vaccines and signed a hold up. Oh.

43:35

Wait a minute. He says it's yours

43:37

is all right. And I have this

43:39

theory thought of. The i mean others

43:41

have said this. I'm not. I'm not

43:43

the one who's invented this, but there's

43:45

something about be injected with the fact

43:47

that it's a needle going and our

43:50

bodies. Something about the mood. You know

43:52

that the injection there's something that is

43:54

off putting to people. Anyway,

43:56

just it is an interesting that

43:58

now lotta different. There's a lot differently

44:01

than here. Yeah, I know I'm good

44:03

at it. It's funny to I was

44:05

in a hair salon a while ago

44:07

In this is not a judgmental. Observation.

44:10

But you know live women are doing

44:12

injectables and stay. We're talking about it

44:15

in the hair salon in in the

44:17

next breath they were like but you

44:19

know those covered vaccines and I'd like

44:21

to. Add. A giggle to

44:24

myself to do you realize. That.

44:26

Doesn't sound. Right place for

44:28

both injectables, but you're gossiping one

44:30

in that. The I Met

44:33

friends My gosh, I mean

44:35

I don't know if folks

44:37

know like not fair to

44:39

has been studied or monitored

44:41

more than the coded vaccines

44:44

are honestly vaccines in general.

44:46

There are so many and

44:48

I'm talking outside of pharma,

44:50

outside of government, the of

44:52

academic institutions, independent organizations do

44:55

you third parties doing this

44:57

intensive monitoring for safety and

44:59

effectiveness of the these vaccines.

45:01

They are all eyes are on

45:03

these vaccines. you know, South Anyway

45:06

series. Thank you so very much

45:08

for joining me today. Thank you

45:10

for the work you're doing through

45:12

vaccinate your family one more time.

45:15

Working folks by follow a longer

45:17

that involves so he can visit

45:19

vaccinate your family. That or there

45:22

is a wealth of information on.

45:24

there were also I'm a spurned

45:26

Instagram lane change Twitter and whatever

45:28

it is recalling that now link

45:31

James answer. Yes please to file

45:33

a less for information. If you

45:35

are interested in getting involved in

45:37

some advocacy efforts, you can reach

45:39

us through info and vaccinate your

45:41

family.org as well selves. Please do

45:43

leads out and we are here

45:45

to help guide and Uk in

45:47

power. You are amazing that! thank

45:49

you for seeing history. Thank you

45:51

for telling us about Joseph and

45:54

your journey and just everything you've

45:56

done. It's incredible and thank you

45:58

to our listeners for to. The

46:00

Union today. I hope that you

46:02

learn something from this episode. The

46:05

you remember that we have a

46:07

searchable database and wait, what is?

46:10

and I have to check that

46:12

this is embarrassing us pod

46:14

that sources.com it is as he

46:16

linked to our searchable database

46:18

a few questions about measles, the

46:21

Mmr vaccine, or just anything

46:23

you can search by key word.

46:25

Remember that we had a

46:27

weekly newsletter on some sack. It's.

46:30

Free to subscribe, although there is a

46:32

paid option if they're able and willing

46:34

to support our science communication average. You

46:36

can sign up for that at. On.

46:39

By his side. Pie it.some sack.com

46:41

us and I'll link to this

46:43

and all of our show notes

46:45

and sorry I'm having like to

46:47

see my i'm blanking on all

46:49

of these links that address what's

46:51

going on with me right now

46:53

Anyway, thank you all so very

46:55

much part in are no nonsense,

46:58

just science.