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If you're listening to this podcast, I assume you are

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Well,

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let me introduce myself. I'm Saruti Bala,

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one half of award-winning true crime podcast

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Red Handed. Every single week on Red Handed,

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we deep dive into a new case. Like

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the story of Natalia Grace, the woman with

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dwarfism accused of pretending to be a child and attempting

0:59

to murder her entire adopted family. Whatever

1:01

the case, we want to know what pushes people to the extremes

1:03

of human behaviour.

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Like, can someone give consent to be cannibalised?

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Interested? If so, you can listen to

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Red Handed right now, wherever you get your podcasts.

1:18

BBC Sounds. Music radio

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podcasts.

1:24

Hello, I'm Rhys Shearsmith,

1:26

and I've been a fan of Danny Robbins' Uncanny since

1:29

Mark Gatiss introduced me to the podcast

1:31

in 2021. He drew me in

1:33

describing the alarming story of

1:35

a haunted Belfast student accommodation

1:38

and the supposedly unspeakably evil

1:40

presence that lurked within. It had

1:43

so many great elements. It had a haunted lift,

1:45

bizarre poltergeist activity and

1:47

inexplicable banging on the doors in the

1:49

middle of the night. I was instantly hooked. There

1:52

are so many fantastic episodes to pick

1:54

from over the two series, it's hard to

1:57

choose a favourite, but I've gone for a

1:59

particular story from

4:00

It's when the monster steps from the shadows,

4:03

and it's even worse than you imagined. I

4:06

literally want to scream but I'm

4:08

physically unable to because I'm so terrified.

4:11

I'm Danny Robbins,

4:13

and this is Uncanny.

4:48

I'm

4:53

in the shed looking through all of the

4:55

emails that have been coming in. So many messages

4:58

on Case 9. Ian and Dermot's encounter

5:01

with something possibly demonic and

5:03

certainly very smelly in the town of Longge

5:06

in France. Lots of interesting theories,

5:08

everything from wild boars to

5:10

the devil himself. We will update on

5:13

it very soon, but let's get straight into

5:16

our new case. Our witness is Will.

5:18

He's in his 40s. He's got a beard

5:20

and a long ponytail that nearly reaches

5:22

down his waist. He works in

5:25

publishing now, but his story takes

5:27

place in 1992 when

5:30

he was in his first year at Royal

5:32

Holloway University in London.

5:35

I remember the first kind of weeks of

5:37

thinking of what am I doing here. The experience

5:39

was perhaps a little bit too intense because I'm

5:42

introverted.

5:43

But Will has got one good friend there, his best

5:45

mate Leon, who he's known since school.

5:48

And through Leon he makes two more friends,

5:50

Charlie and Jason. And

5:52

one Thursday night they all head to the Student

5:54

Union for a few drinks. It wasn't like

5:56

a really, really heavy drinking session. It was just a couple

5:58

of pints. and just do

6:01

general chat. When the bar closes,

6:03

they go back to Leon's room at the Student Hall

6:05

of Residence. We're kind of like merry

6:07

rather than drunk. And then I think

6:09

it was Leon. He suggests, why don't

6:12

we do a Ouija board? So

6:14

the others think this is a really, really good idea. But

6:16

Will doesn't, and it's for a very specific

6:19

reason. When I was younger, I knew a medium.

6:22

Bizarrely, she was my hairdresser. So

6:24

she would cut my hair and tell me things about seances

6:26

she'd done. And she said to me, you

6:29

must never, ever do a Ouija board. I've

6:32

got this sense you've got strong powers. If you do

6:34

a Ouija board, you may release

6:36

things that you can't control or you can't even

6:38

imagine. That is quite an unsettling thing

6:40

for a hairdresser to tell you. You said that

6:43

you didn't believe in ghosts. But did that rattle you a bit? No,

6:45

I didn't think so. I thought it was a

6:47

bit ridiculous. But I still remembered that

6:50

very, very stark warning she gave me. So

6:52

despite his skepticism, Will decides

6:55

not to join in as his friends prepare their

6:57

Ouija board. So Leon takes

7:00

a blank sheet of paper and

7:02

he draws a wheel of letters on it. In

7:05

the middle of the circle, he

7:07

writes yes and no. All this is written in

7:09

by a... Into the centre of the board,

7:11

instead of a glass or a flanchet, Leon

7:14

places a 50 pence piece. This

7:17

is the thing that they will use to try and summon the spirits.

7:20

They ask the question, is

7:22

there anybody there?

7:24

And?

7:25

Essentially it's a non-event and after 10

7:27

minutes or so, they take their fingers

7:29

off the coin. But a short while later they decide to try

7:31

it again. They ask the same question. And

7:35

this time... It sounds very strange to say

7:37

this, but the atmosphere in the room

7:39

changed.

7:41

And then the coin on the Ouija board

7:43

moves to yes. Someone

7:45

asks, are you a spirit? Again,

7:49

it moves to yes. Are you dead? Yes.

7:53

What's your name?

7:55

And on the board, it's spelled

7:57

H-A-R-R-V. why

8:00

it spells out the name Harry. They ask

8:02

another question. Harry, what

8:04

do you want? And then the

8:07

coin moves and it spells out my name.

8:10

W-I-L-L.

8:12

How do you react to that? So

8:15

I tell them to stop mucking around, but they're all

8:17

adamant they haven't moved it and they cannot

8:19

get their fingers off that coin fastness.

8:22

I'm looking at them and they

8:24

actually look scared.

8:26

But are you scared? No, I'm not scared at all.

8:28

I genuinely believe the whole thing is just a joke. A

8:30

joke at my expense. But there's one

8:33

strange detail. Charlie passes

8:35

Will the 50 pence piece from the board. It

8:37

feels like it's come out of a deep freezer. It is

8:39

frozen.

8:41

Odd. But Will puts the night

8:43

behind him. The next morning he has breakfast

8:45

with Leon, goes to lectures and then

8:47

heads back to his room in another hall of residence.

8:50

Obviously this is long before the age of mobile

8:52

phones. So in our corridor there's payphone

8:55

and everyone on their doors has

8:57

a sheet of paper. If anyone calls for you just to

9:00

write a message there. They get back

9:02

to the door and there's scrolls on the door because

9:04

the word Harry calls. Harry

9:07

was the name that came from the wegible. Yeah. So

9:10

my instant response is that I had not seen Charlie

9:12

and Jason that morning. I just

9:14

think they just phoned the payphone in my corridor,

9:16

got something to leave a message. But it's just part

9:19

of this elaborate prank that's just going on. I

9:21

don't take it particularly seriously.

9:23

But

9:24

the calls keep coming. I keep getting

9:26

back to my room and finding a message that's been left

9:28

to me. Along with Harry calls. I

9:31

don't know anyone called Harry. But crucially

9:33

I'm never ever around when Harry calls. Annoyed,

9:36

Will confronts his mates Leon, Charlie and James.

9:38

Enough is enough. This isn't funny anymore. And

9:41

they're all adamant they're not calling.

9:43

They definitely seem to look as if they don't

9:46

really know what I'm talking about. Do you believe

9:48

them? I do believe them, yes. Especially

9:50

after the 34th time we're asking and they're

9:52

vehemently denying it. But then this leaves a problem

9:55

because if they aren't making the call,

9:57

who's making the call? The

10:00

message has gone for weeks. Always those words

10:02

Harry called until one day there's

10:05

a knock on the door. Another student

10:08

stands there telling Will that

10:10

Harry is on the phone. Will

10:12

rushes out ready to confront whoever is behind

10:15

this. I pick up the phone and I say, you

10:17

know, I want to know who this is. And

10:19

he was just talking gibberish. I can't remember what he said

10:21

but all I remember is the sense of this is just nonsense.

10:25

So I'm saying, who is this? Is this Harry?

10:27

And they're just paying no attention to me whatsoever.

10:29

They're just talking over me. I felt

10:31

like I was overhearing something. There was certainly

10:34

no attempt to address me or

10:36

respond to me. This

10:39

is not just a student, Will. This is

10:41

not, it's certainly not one of my friends. That I can say

10:43

adamantly because of recognised voices. Not that. It's

10:45

a very strange thing to say but the voice seems

10:48

out of time. It's the 1990s. This

10:50

does not sound like someone from the 1990s talking.

10:54

I don't like it at all. It was a type of

10:56

voice that just unnerved me. I'm

10:58

wondering, Will, if your hairdresser's words are now ringing

11:01

in your ears but also I

11:03

have thought of something that is

11:05

giving me a bit of a tingle here. Two

11:08

have been getting these messages to you. This

11:10

person, Harry, whoever this is, would

11:14

have had to know your room number. Right, so I'm

11:16

the only Will on the floor. The

11:18

corridor itself is massive. So if someone

11:21

from the far end of the corridor answers

11:23

the phone, they won't know me. So

11:25

he would actually, I've never thought about that. He would have

11:28

to know my room number. Yes. That

11:30

detail has never ever occurred to me before. I

11:33

don't like that. So

11:42

creepy. It feels like Will is just straight into an

11:44

episode of Twin Peaks with a strange, garbled

11:46

voice on the phone. I'm joined

11:48

by two experts to discuss the

11:50

case. Psychologist Kieran O'Keefe and parapsychologist

11:54

Evelyn Hollow. Evan, surely

11:56

it is not possible that

11:58

a Ouija board drawn on a bit of paper paper in Barrow

12:00

and a 50 pence piece can

12:03

actually open up a portal to the dead. Well

12:05

that's the thing, you know, how does something

12:08

get that much better? But now you have Ouija

12:10

board stored on everything, I mean I own a cheese board

12:12

that has a Ouija board on it.

12:14

Does that mean if I sit down and

12:16

attempt to contact the dead it'll work? Is

12:19

it that the object doesn't so much matter

12:21

but it's more the power or the intention?

12:24

And we've already heard that earlier on Will

12:27

was told by someone who was his hairdresser

12:29

but was also working as a medium that

12:31

he had some sort of power, you know, he was susceptible

12:34

to this stuff. So maybe we're looking at the wrong

12:36

thing here, maybe it's not the Ouija board we should be talking

12:38

about, maybe it's Will.

12:40

Kieran, Harry is the name

12:42

that comes from the Ouija board and then

12:44

Will starts to get called from somebody called Harry.

12:47

What is going on here? We've still

12:49

got to have that element of doubt with regards

12:51

to his friends possibly playing a

12:53

prank. If it wasn't that

12:55

though, what else is going

12:58

on? Back in the late 70s, parapsychologist

13:01

Scott Rogo and Raymond Bayless published

13:03

a book Phone Calls from the Dead which

13:06

is effectively gathering all of these amazing

13:09

anecdotal experiences of people

13:11

genuinely getting phone calls

13:13

from the dead. Now these are

13:15

people who are genuinely sceptical

13:18

about the existence of ghosts and yet they have

13:20

a relative passing away and then

13:22

those people actually calling them after

13:25

they have done. Hold on a minute Kieran, you

13:28

just used the words genuinely getting

13:30

phone calls from the dead. Are you now breaking

13:32

down as we reach the end of season two?

13:34

Are you saying this is actually the dead calling? I'm

13:37

not, no. You know me, when it comes to eyewitness

13:39

accounts we've always got to treat them with, you

13:41

know, a little bit of caution because they're reporting

13:44

to us. We don't have the evidence

13:46

in front of us of that voice. I'm

13:49

not wavering on my hardcore scepticism

13:51

at all. Evan, the way the calls keep coming

13:53

is deeply unfurling.

13:54

They are, they remind me of people being stalked.

13:57

It's really unsettling. Initially you

13:59

think the friends cranking i'm and winding

14:01

up about what happened with the which avoids

14:04

thought himself says it's not then

14:06

it's not their voice that's a really bizarre

14:08

thing it's like overhearing a conversation that

14:10

you're not supposed to here in his oldest disturbance

14:12

and things on the line is listening and something

14:15

you shouldn't be listening into

14:16

if the that tantrum and gave us i have always felt

14:18

the mix loads of sense that they

14:21

would do it in the way that we do it

14:23

in life that they would use

14:25

attack that we have oh yeah well i mean

14:26

a lot people us that they say with all the technology

14:29

that we've got know why don't we go

14:31

coming to smartphones and things and we

14:32

have

14:36

this would beat the brooklyn pulsar guys from season

14:38

one of on truly we had things

14:40

happening with the i phone survey

14:41

is right lots of paranormal

14:43

history we talk about electronic

14:45

voice phenomena he repeats this

14:47

is why and voices are signs are captured

14:49

on recording equipment that we wouldn't expect

14:52

to be there so if we believe

14:54

that spirits are ghosts can

14:57

create easy peas then it

14:59

would make sense that this could happen

15:01

in the we have a phone call because it's the same thing

15:03

we'd have to be manipulating electricity and

15:05

manipulating sound

15:06

waves in order to create so it can

15:09

is this is not a

15:11

prank who is talking

15:13

to the students taking the messages or will whoever

15:16

does has to be same this is harry can

15:18

you get will this is his remember if

15:21

it's not a prank tennis

15:25

is a demon is

15:27

is against is

15:29

very difficult isn't it we

15:31

don't know of anybody living

15:34

cool harry that would be genuinely

15:36

cooling will soon you're

15:39

batting me into a corner by

15:41

saying is it's not a prank

15:43

so i'm removing that natural explanation

15:46

that it i'm quite happy to say it would only

15:48

leave their for supernatural wow

15:50

that his as close as i think we're ever going to go

15:55

after listening to this podcast i assume

15:57

you are a fan of true crime for

15:59

that means

15:59

I'm Sarushi Bala, one

16:02

half of award-winning true crime podcast, Red

16:04

Handed. Every single week on Red Handed,

16:06

we deep dive into a new case. Like

16:08

the story of Natalia Grace, the woman with

16:11

dwarfism accused of pretending to be a child and attempting

16:13

to murder her into her adoptive family. Whatever

16:15

the case, we want to know what pushes people to the extremes

16:18

of human behaviour.

16:19

Like can someone give consent to be cannibalised?

16:22

Interested? If so,

16:24

you can listen to Red Handed right now wherever

16:26

you get your podcasts.

16:31

What?

16:32

Let's go back to Will after that

16:34

unsettling conversation. The calls

16:37

continue, he gets more and more of these

16:39

messages on his door. But he

16:41

is always out, he does not speak

16:43

to Harry again. And eventually,

16:46

it stops. We're going to jump forwards a year

16:49

now to the winter of 1993 and

16:51

Will is living in another student

16:53

hall called Cumberland Lodge in

16:56

a spectacular location. It's

16:58

right in the middle of Windsor Great Park, near

17:01

the castle. It's also a conference facility

17:04

with a bar attached and one day Will gets back

17:06

from lectures and heads to the bar hoping

17:08

to catch a friend who works there. You

17:10

have to walk past the windows to the

17:12

main entrance of the house

17:14

and then come through to the bar that way. When

17:17

you look into the bar, it must

17:19

be late afternoon because I really vividly

17:21

remember all these golden sun lights reflecting

17:24

on the windows. And there's a man sitting

17:26

at the bar, he's kind of nursing a drink. He's

17:29

got this thin, really old-fashioned stash.

17:31

It's like from the style of the 1930s, a

17:33

detail I really remember strongly. And

17:35

he's dressed in tweeds. There's

17:39

something about him I just don't like. He

17:41

just seems like an unpleasant man.

17:43

This is very judgmental. What is it about him that

17:45

makes you feel like that? Do you know what it is? He's

17:48

staring at me too intently. That's

17:50

what I don't like. He's just looking at me

17:53

in a way that is just inappropriate. It's

17:55

almost kind of predatory. I

17:57

really, really don't like him.

17:59

looking at me.

18:01

I get to the bar, go to open the door, then

18:04

it's locked. There's no way out

18:06

of that bar. Can you still see

18:08

the guy in the bar? No, I can't see. Anyone

18:11

sitting up at the bar on the bar stool would be instantly

18:14

visible and there's no sign of him.

18:16

The predatory man with the moustache has

18:18

seemingly disappeared, but things are about

18:20

to get even stranger as Will goes to find

18:23

the bar manager. She says the bar's

18:25

been locked shut since the claims went in last

18:27

night, so there was no way for

18:29

someone to have got into that room.

18:33

So, do I die?

18:35

I didn't have an explanation. So,

18:37

friend, Will is not quite sure what unnerved

18:39

him so much about the old man, but something just

18:42

didn't feel right. And it's not the

18:45

only thing, because after a pause of several

18:47

months, one day I get home after lectures

18:49

and there's a post-it note on my door and

18:52

the message says, Harry calls. And

18:55

I thought, surely this can't be my

18:57

friend's continuing the joke. But

19:00

then, a few days later, there's

19:02

a knock at my door and one of my neighbours is saying, oh, there's a

19:04

call for you.

19:05

It's Harry on the phone.

19:07

Will goes nervously to the

19:09

payphone, remembering that last weird

19:11

conversation. I pick it up

19:14

and I say hello and there's

19:16

no response. This time there's no voice. But

19:18

there's a sound. It's the strangest sound.

19:21

The nearest description I have is, you know,

19:23

in the London Underground. You have that

19:26

sound of trainwigs just as it's

19:28

reaching a platform. It's almost like an inhalation.

19:31

Then there's a deep whooshing and then there's a kind of clatter.

19:34

So, I keep saying, hello, hello, and

19:37

there's no response. This feels so unsettling.

19:39

No, Will.

19:41

Do you confront Leon and your friends about

19:43

it? Yes, I asked Leon. You know, did you

19:45

make this call? He probably thinks I'm a bit crazy.

19:47

He has really no idea why I'm

19:50

asking this strange question a year later.

19:54

It's so odd, right? And perhaps Will is starting

19:56

to think that he is going crazy here. It's a vulnerable

19:58

enough time. being a student away

20:01

from home for the first time, without this added

20:03

sense of feeling almost literally

20:05

stalked by someone or something

20:08

that is using that name that

20:10

came up from the Ouija board. But if all

20:12

this is weird and uncomfortable, Will

20:15

is about to have another experience that

20:18

will properly freak him out.

20:20

It's a few weeks later and he's heading

20:22

out for the evening.

20:23

It's an absolutely filthy night, so I remember having

20:26

to run to the car because it was raining so heavily.

20:29

Will drives through Windsor Great Park. It's

20:31

a private, so this team and I can get to the deserted.

20:34

It's him and the trees that

20:36

his car headlights

20:37

cut us way through the dark. And

20:40

to get from the lodge to the exit of the

20:42

park, you have all these winding paths.

20:45

I'm driving along and suddenly I break to

20:48

a complete standstill. Just standing in

20:50

the road, blocking my way as a man.

20:52

Just standing in the middle of the road? Yes, my initial

20:55

sense was, oh my God, I've almost run someone over because

20:57

they're just doing emergency stop. So

21:00

I've got that initial shock. My

21:02

heart is racing. And then

21:04

I recognize this man. And

21:07

I recognize him as the same man I'd seen in the barn.

21:09

He's got the same thing must ask, the

21:11

same tweed suit.

21:14

Now he's wearing a cap.

21:17

And he's got this very, very stark boots. And

21:19

he's just standing there, smacking

21:22

of it. He just emanates

21:25

something that I just don't like. So

21:27

again, seeing him in the middle of the night, with

21:29

the rain falling and everything. Yeah,

21:33

it's not

21:33

good.

21:36

One really strange detail. It's

21:39

completely dry.

21:41

So a rental rain is falling. Basically

21:43

standing there in a stark headline,

21:46

completely dry. And then

21:48

he's flashing. I don't see him

21:50

move. I don't see him drop into

21:52

the distance as one of his men. And

21:54

then the next is black. Bang,

21:57

yay.

22:03

Curiouser and curiouser, let's go back

22:05

to our experts. Evelyn, first off, the

22:07

phone calls continue at Cumberland

22:10

Lodge. This is really, really weird

22:12

now. Yes, so this really rules out some of the other

22:14

theories, because

22:15

one of the ideas might be that it's an issue

22:17

at the previous

22:18

place with the electrical equipment or

22:20

with the telephones, coincidences,

22:22

people pranking and things like that, but they've now actually

22:25

moved the location. So this ups

22:27

the on-set link factor in this case. And

22:29

then, Karen, we have this mysterious moustache-yoked man

22:31

in the bar. Why do you feel

22:33

that he unsettles Will Thummut? He's still

22:35

unsettled with what's happened

22:38

with the Ouija board and the phenomena since. And

22:41

here he sees a man, and

22:43

he describes various details,

22:45

including the moustache, and

22:48

you

22:48

might always think of like a movie

22:50

villain. So immediately in his

22:52

mind he's thinking, well, that's odd, but I've

22:54

got somebody here who's potentially dressed from decades

22:57

and decades ago, and he's

22:59

making that link and thinking, well, is this the person

23:01

who's been trying to get in touch

23:03

with me on the phone since the Ouija board

23:06

incident? If you genuinely

23:09

believe that using a Ouija

23:11

board will open some portal and

23:13

demons and dark entities will come through,

23:16

then ultimately it'll become a self-fulfilling

23:19

prophecy.

23:20

Really interesting. Evelyn, an even bigger question.

23:22

What is this man doing in a locked bar,

23:24

and how can he possibly disappear? So

23:27

this particular bit of the case essentially becomes

23:29

a locked room mystery. We know there's only

23:31

one entrance and one exit. Will checks

23:33

that it's locked,

23:34

and he sees a man that's in there, and

23:36

then next minute he's gone.

23:38

So how is that possible? Even

23:40

if it's not a ghost, how did a physical person

23:43

get in and out when it was locked? And then,

23:45

Evelyn, we had this truly nerve-wracking

23:47

moment where Will nearly runs a man

23:49

over on an empty road in the dark. And

23:52

it is seemingly

23:53

the same man.

23:54

So initially, Will was being stalked

23:57

by these kind of phone calls. He was being harassed. like

24:00

he's being stalked or followed by this

24:02

man. Will narrowly hits the man with

24:04

his car and then the man vanishes. There

24:06

is nowhere for him to go. So we've gone

24:08

from locked room mystery to actual

24:11

vanishing man in front of Will's

24:13

eyes. I don't have a ready explanation

24:16

for that. Kieran, you're going to tell me that this is all a

24:18

coincidence.

24:19

Yes, I am. But actually more than

24:21

that, we're dealing here with a classic

24:23

case of hypnagogic experience.

24:27

We talk about hypnagogia, this idea

24:29

of a state between waking

24:32

and sleeping. We talk about it in relation to

24:34

sleep related haunting phenomena.

24:37

And it makes sense. So imagine

24:39

that you're driving along, it's raining

24:42

heavily. You slip into

24:44

that hypnagogic state, almost slipping

24:46

into sleep state. You're suddenly

24:48

thinking of

24:49

this man that you've seen in the bar

24:51

and that flashes into your mind and you see

24:53

it in front of you, which is the hypnagogic hallucination.

24:58

You can wake up out of that state effectively

25:01

and continue driving and think, was that the

25:03

man that I saw? And I think that's

25:05

what we're seeing here. The coincidence is

25:07

making the association between

25:09

somebody seen in a bar and the

25:11

hallucination seen while driving. So to

25:14

be clear, then you think that the man who

25:16

disappeared from the locked bar was a real man,

25:19

but this figure who disappears on the open road at

25:21

night is not real. I think it's the

25:23

most likely explanation. All right.

25:25

Thank you both. So do you want the good news

25:29

or the bad news? The good news is

25:31

that as Will finishes his university

25:33

degree, there are no more phone

25:35

calls or sightings of the man with the mustache. The

25:38

bad news is after he graduates,

25:42

things are about to get a lot, lot worse. We're

25:44

going to fast forward to 1997.

25:46

Whilst Will is figuring out what to do with his life,

25:49

he gets a job working at a pub in Essex.

25:52

He's working there one night when

25:54

the phone rings. And then one of the bar

25:56

staff comes out and says, oh, there's a call for you. And

25:59

I said, oh, here is the call.

25:59

Then she replies, well I couldn't

26:02

tell the line was absolutely terrible, it sounded

26:04

like Gary. So I go

26:06

to the office, I pick up the phone,

26:10

there is no one there, and I can hear

26:12

them breathing, so I know someone is breathing,

26:15

and the line itself is really really

26:17

sensitive, rumbling on it

26:19

and sad.

26:21

So is this Gary or Harry, is he back? The

26:24

rational part of me thinks it can't

26:26

be Harry can it? The Ouija board

26:28

happened in 1992, this is 1997, this is like almost 5 years

26:30

later, it can't

26:33

be someone continuing with a joke. Can

26:36

it? Will is as confused

26:39

as us, but late that week he

26:42

is about to have another experience which will move the dial

26:44

from unease to

26:46

sheer bloody terror.

26:49

He is in his flat and

26:51

it is the middle of the night.

26:53

Something wakes me up, I'm sure I've heard

26:55

the door to the flat go. I live alone,

26:58

no one has a spare key, so

27:01

straight away I'm alert, and then

27:04

I hear footsteps come down

27:07

from the front of the flat to the back of my Ouija.

27:10

So this must be a booklet? Yes, my

27:12

initial response is that someone is broken in, I

27:15

think someone is broken into the flat and

27:18

I'm going to be murdered in my sleep or something like

27:20

that, and then I hear my

27:22

door. I hear

27:24

the sound of it brushing the car, and

27:28

I'm aware that there is someone in the room with

27:30

me,

27:31

like a silhouette just

27:34

standing there by the door,

27:36

then it comes closer to the bed.

27:39

It's less walking now and kind of glides,

27:42

it's really really difficult to explain what it's

27:44

like, this figure just moves,

27:46

and then my eyes slowly

27:49

adjust to the light,

27:50

then that's when I recognise it,

27:53

it is the man with the mustache, the

27:55

man I'd seen in the car, the man had almost run

27:58

over. I'm

28:00

trying very hard not to swear here. Are

28:02

you sure? Yeah. I recognise

28:04

the tweed suit, I recognise the

28:06

moustache. And gradually

28:08

he gets closer and closer to me. And

28:11

I want to cry out, I want to scream. But

28:14

I can feel my throat moving. No

28:16

sound is coming out of it. I'm so terrified.

28:20

I've

28:20

had the figure sit down

28:23

on the bed. It's closing

28:25

off like I could nudge it with my foot and foot. I'm

28:28

patchy right now. And this figure

28:30

is getting closer and closer to me. In the end I just

28:32

screw my eyes shut and

28:35

just do nothing.

28:38

Will is utterly bloody terrified. He lies

28:40

there with his eyes screwed shut

28:42

until eventually morning

28:45

comes and the figure is gone.

28:47

I don't want to believe this is a supernatural

28:50

event. And I can explain the

28:52

individual bits rationally.

28:54

What I can't explain is the combined effect

28:56

of all of them together. I still

28:59

wonder about the phone calls and the manner. Whether

29:01

this is one story or two separate stories.

29:04

Because if it is one

29:06

story then the conclusion

29:08

in your head that morning is that this man is

29:10

Harry. Yeah. If you connect all

29:12

the pieces up together that's what you get.

29:14

But I don't want to admit that. I would rather

29:16

it be a whole

29:18

series of stories that I've just put together. Because

29:20

the alternative is much

29:23

much worse isn't it? Has Harry

29:25

ever called you since? No I've never heard from Harry

29:27

again. Do you ever worry that

29:29

he will? I don't like that idea at all.

29:32

People would know you would say one

29:35

of my little quirks as a person is I

29:37

never answer telephones. Even in our

29:39

age of mobile phones where you have caller ID

29:41

in a video I'm always reluctant to pick up phones.

29:44

I've never really thought about it before because there's a connection

29:47

between the two. But yeah I

29:49

hope I never hear we'll see that man again.

29:59

the most compelling

30:02

cases that we have ever had on Uncanny.

30:04

Who was making those calls

30:06

and who was the moustachered

30:09

man? Was he actually Harry? Send

30:11

me your questions and your theories.

30:16

Uncanny continues with the start of

30:18

the Uncanny TV series this Friday

30:20

night at 9 p.m. on BBC Two

30:22

and iPlayer and another classic

30:24

episode here on BBC Sounds

30:26

next week. The entire

30:29

room erupts, there are things flying

30:31

around all over the place. It's absolutely

30:34

terrifying.

30:37

Uncanny was written and presented by

30:39

me, Danny Robbins. It was co-produced by me and Simon

30:41

Barnard. Our editor and sound designer is Charlie

30:43

Brandon King. Music is composed by Evan Sykes

30:46

and our theme tune is by Lanterns on the

30:48

Lake. This is a baffle-gap production in association

30:50

with Uncanny media for BBC Radio 4 and

30:52

BBC Sounds. Music

31:00

is composed by Lanterns on the Lake.

31:23

Hi, I'm Robin Ince. And I'm Brain Cox. And we want

31:25

to tell you about a great series we've made

31:27

for BBC Radio 4. Let's just say it's average. It's

31:30

above average. Each one is a handy little guide

31:32

to everything from the supernatural to

31:34

the meaning of infinity. Supernatural

31:36

one, I'll be sure, because there's no such thing. I am

31:39

so gonna haunt you for saying that. We've put

31:41

the best moments from the past 27 series of the

31:43

show, that's nearly 15 years

31:45

worth, to bring you some of the most surprising

31:48

signs and sometimes, hopefully in

31:50

your judgment, some of the funniest moments with

31:52

guests including...

31:53

Steve Martin, Brian Blessed,

31:55

Josie Long, and some scientists,

31:57

lots of scientists as well. Listen

31:59

now.

31:59

on BBC Sounds.

32:04

If you're listening to this podcast, I assume

32:06

you are a fan of true crime. Well, let

32:08

me introduce myself. I'm Saruhi Bala, one

32:11

half of award-winning true crime podcast, Red

32:13

Handed. Every single week on Red Handed, we

32:15

deep dive into a new case.

32:17

It's the story of Natalia Grace, the woman

32:20

with dwarfism accused of pretending to be a child and

32:22

attempting to murder her into her adopted family. Whatever

32:25

the case, we want to know what pushes people to the extremes

32:27

of human behaviour.

32:28

Like, can someone give consent to be cannibalised?

32:32

Interested? If so, you can listen

32:34

to Red Handed right now wherever you get your podcasts.