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device BBC

1:20

sounds music radio podcasts

1:22

I See

1:25

him it's night and

1:28

he's standing over me and that's

1:30

this definitely the scariest thing and that's the one

1:32

you don't want Hello

1:35

the cases we have looked at

1:37

so far the series have been

1:39

terrifyingly diverse from poltergeists to Bigfoot

1:41

to haunted telephones and apparitions But

1:44

they've all had one thing in common. They

1:46

happened in the past This

1:48

episode that changes we are headed to

1:51

Southern California To investigate

1:53

a house where the owner believes that

1:55

she is currently right at this very

1:57

moment cohabiting with a

1:59

ghost My

2:02

blood runs cold, that surge of adrenaline.

2:04

He comes towards me and he whispers

2:06

in my ear. I am

2:08

absolutely terrified. But are these

2:11

experiences genuinely paranormal or can we explain

2:13

them? Let us find out. I'm

2:16

Danny Robbins and this

2:18

is Uncanny USA. I

2:31

know what I saw.

2:36

I know what I saw. Case

2:50

10. Arthur's house.

2:57

So this investigation starts with a

3:00

Facebook message from my old university

3:02

friend Sarah, which

3:04

makes me instantly jump on the zoom. I

3:07

guess we should say that we've known each other a long time. We

3:09

have, yeah. Of all

3:11

my friends, Sarah is the person whose social media makes

3:13

me feel most jealous. About nine

3:15

years ago, she moved from the UK

3:17

to live in the beautiful, always sunny,

3:19

California countryside, about an hour from L.A.

3:22

But then recently she got in touch to

3:24

say there's something I need to tell you,

3:27

something that happened to her back then.

3:30

It was 2015. I came

3:32

to California on my own to find somewhere

3:34

to live. And I stayed with my cousin,

3:36

Kerry, and her family

3:39

who live in a place called Montecito.

3:42

If Montecito sounds familiar, it's because it's

3:44

a bit of a celebrity hotspot. It's

3:46

home to Oprah and Harry and Meghan

3:48

now too. It's the epitome of money

3:50

luxury, basically. And Sarah's cousin Kerry's place

3:53

is pretty impressive itself. I stayed

3:55

in what was then the guest house, which

3:58

is just next door. beautiful

4:01

1960s bungalow

4:03

that's been maintained

4:06

with all the original fixtures and

4:08

fittings from the 60s and

4:11

it looks like the

4:13

set of a Mad Men episode. So I'm

4:17

staying there by myself and

4:20

about 2-3 a.m.

4:22

I get woken up by

4:24

very loud footsteps and

4:27

it wasn't someone tiptoeing either it

4:29

sounded very much like a big

4:31

man who wasn't

4:33

aware that there was someone else in the house so

4:36

was just making as much of a racket as they

4:38

wanted. So who could this be? In

4:40

my head I figured it was another

4:42

guest who was staying and that they

4:44

didn't know why I was there which

4:47

was why they were being so loud

4:50

and eventually I did that

4:52

very English polite thing of

4:55

coughing to announce

4:57

that I was in the house too. I

5:00

love it Americans faced with a potential home

5:02

entry that might be reaching for their firearm.

5:04

We Brits just cough loudly or touch. Do

5:07

you get a response? No nothing no

5:09

response they just kept walking very

5:12

loud I could track the footsteps

5:14

moving around the house after

5:16

a while I was like I'm gonna go and see and

5:19

I circled the house checked the doors and the

5:21

windows to make sure I hadn't left it open

5:24

and there was no one around. So this is

5:26

odd now? Yeah but then I

5:29

heard the footsteps moving around the

5:31

room next door to mine which

5:34

was a little bedroom. So they're literally just

5:36

on the other side of the wall to you? Yes I

5:38

kept thinking why won't they just go to bed?

5:42

Eventually I think I must have just fallen back

5:44

to sleep and I woke up a couple of

5:46

hours later around six or seven so

5:48

I got up very thoughtfully tiptoed

5:50

around the house you know made

5:52

my coffee and I sat there

5:54

until midday and I was

5:57

getting curious now. I

6:01

crept up to the bedroom and

6:03

I thought, I wonder if they're still asleep. And

6:07

at this point was so

6:09

confused that I opened

6:11

the door very softly and

6:14

looked inside. And

6:16

there was nobody. Okay. There

6:19

was absolutely no sign that anyone

6:21

had been there. In fact, the

6:24

room was being used for storage.

6:26

So the bed was covered in

6:29

boxes. It was not a room you

6:31

would sleep in. So it was an odd discovery

6:34

for me. What do you make of things, Nervyn?

6:37

I went away and I texted Kerry and

6:39

I was like, was someone staying here last

6:41

night? Did your parents just forget to tell

6:43

me? And she said, no,

6:46

there's no other guests. At

6:48

which point I think, okay, that's weird because

6:50

there was definitely someone in the house. Sarah

6:53

drives off to do a day of

6:55

house hunting in slightly less expensive areas

6:57

than luxurious Montecito. But

6:59

last night's oddness gnaws at her. That

7:02

same day I was meeting up with

7:04

a friend of mine and Kerry's called

7:06

Rachel. And I said, oh my

7:08

God, I didn't get any sleep last night because this

7:10

person was in the house and they were walking around

7:12

and they kept me up for hours. And

7:15

Rachel looks at me and she goes, oh,

7:18

that's the ghost. Did Kerry not

7:20

tell you there's a ghost in the house? Crikey,

7:23

what do you make of that? Well, we

7:25

were actually meeting with Kerry in the

7:27

evening in LA. And

7:30

so Rachel goes to her, Kerry, you

7:32

didn't tell Sarah about the ghost. And

7:35

Kerry gives her this look and she goes, what ghost? She

7:37

denies it. Yes, but this is the

7:40

thing. It turns out Kerry had deliberately

7:42

lied to me because she knew

7:44

I was staying there alone. And

7:46

she didn't want to terrify me. After

7:49

I left, she then admitted

7:51

the truth to me. She hears

7:53

the footsteps all the time, wandering around

7:55

at night. And she has seen the

7:58

ghost several times. Bloody hell. I think

8:00

we need to talk to Kerry. And

8:04

so we are off on another uncanny USA road

8:06

trip as Simon, my co-producer and I, head to

8:09

the southern Californian coast where the hills meet the

8:11

Pacific, to the tiny, ultra-privileged town

8:13

of Montecito. In

8:16

half a mile, take exit 94 B... Because trust

8:18

me, as Sarah would learn, there is a whole lot more to come out in

8:20

this case, and

8:23

it is frankly bloody terrifying.

8:26

There is a sign for Montecito. You

8:29

get a very definite sense that we are entering the land of

8:31

the house here. Lots and lots

8:33

of lovely homes to one side of us, and

8:35

the ocean glittering and

8:37

blue on our other side. So

8:40

we are on our way to Kerry's house

8:44

to try and get to the bottom of what happened to Sarah, and

8:46

also what Kerry herself knows about it.

8:50

Do you think we will see Harry and Meghan walking down the street? Sam

8:53

Meghan. Look

8:55

a little bit like her actually hiding under a very

8:58

big house. Kerry's

9:00

family house is not easy to find, like

9:02

so many places around this area. It is

9:04

hidden from the eyes of the world behind

9:07

a fence and foliage. But eventually we make

9:09

it down her garden path past the impressively

9:11

massive house. Kerry's parents live in to the

9:14

extremely cool 1960s bungalow, which

9:16

was the guest house when Sarah stayed. But

9:19

since the pandemic has become

9:21

Kerry's permanent home, where she now lives with

9:23

her husband and her own kids next door

9:25

to her parents. Hello!

9:29

Hi, it's nice to meet you. Hello, hello. I'm

9:32

Kerry. Kerry's in her early 40s, coolly

9:34

Californian with a statement fringe and an outfit

9:36

of tastefully matching browns. So I'd heard great

9:38

things from Sarah, but this is quite something.

9:41

But enough interior design. It

9:43

is time to talk ghosts. How

9:46

did you feel when Sarah asked you if there was a

9:48

ghost here? I don't know, I just felt uncomfortable, I just

9:50

felt nervous about it. Because you knew what she was talking

9:52

about. Yeah. Tell

9:54

me about your own experiences and how does this begin

9:56

for you? I mean immediately. The

9:58

first time... I spent the night,

10:01

I was in bed, and it

10:03

sounds like someone is walking up and down the hallway. So

10:05

this is just like what Sarah describes them. So you

10:08

hear this regularly after you move in? Yes.

10:10

And sometimes you hear a banging, but this

10:12

sounds elevated. It sounds like it's happening like

10:14

in the middle of the room. You can

10:16

feel it, and you can hear it. It

10:19

sounds physical. It sounds like absolutely

10:22

tactile. But when

10:24

you see things, that is not the same sensation.

10:27

And seeing, I find much scarier.

10:30

What have you seen? So when

10:33

I'm alone in the house, I always do the same thing. I

10:35

come into this bedroom, and I lock the door to the

10:38

hallway, and then I lock the door to

10:40

the bathroom, and then it's like a little mini apartment. And

10:42

I'm sitting in bed, and

10:44

you can see that light comes in under the

10:46

door, reflected off the floor. And

10:49

I see the light changes. It

10:51

looks like someone's standing there. And then

10:54

sometimes when I'm in the room with the door open to

10:56

the hallway, I look at that hallway, and

10:59

I see like a slender,

11:01

dark, shadowy figure of a man.

11:04

Kerry, you keep saying he. Who

11:06

do you think this is? I know who it is. Who?

11:09

Arthur Grant, who built the home, is who

11:11

I believe it is. Okay. Tell

11:13

me about Arthur. So he

11:16

and his wife built the home themselves. It was

11:18

built in 1956, and

11:20

they had their whole lives here. So

11:22

he is the only other person to have lived in

11:24

this house before you? He and his wife, yeah.

11:27

Yeah. So when my

11:29

folks moved in, he would complain

11:31

about us being noisy. We were the first

11:33

family there, and upon reflection, I think

11:35

I was very noisy and very obnoxious. How

11:38

do you mean? Oh, I mean, I was a

11:40

wild teenager. I would sneak

11:42

out at night and try to meet up

11:44

with boyfriends and whatnot. I was literally running through

11:47

his yard, yelling with my friends and stuff.

11:50

I for sure was haunting his life. And

11:52

you think that he is now essentially doing that to you? Why?

11:54

What makes you think that all of this is him? I

11:56

see him. It's night, and

11:58

I'm asleep in bed. and I

12:00

wake up and he's standing over me. And

12:04

I've had other friends describe it, it's happened

12:06

to my husband, and I mean, that's very

12:08

unnerving. That makes it pretty hard to go

12:10

back to sleep. I

12:14

know what I've told

12:16

you. OMG,

12:18

it is time to bring some

12:20

experts in representing Team Believer. I'm

12:22

joined by writer and Emmy-nominated paranormal

12:25

podcaster, Jeff Belanger, who was last

12:27

with us on Case 2, dad's

12:29

phone. And alongside him for Team

12:31

Skeptic, one of our uncanny regulars,

12:33

psychologist and academic professor, Chris French.

12:36

Jeff, we have that thing that always excites

12:38

us, having multiple witnesses. It's quite

12:40

something. Yeah, of course. If it's

12:42

just you, you can wonder if something's wrong

12:44

with yourself, if you're overtired, if you're mistaken,

12:46

but when it's multiple people,

12:48

that certainly adds a lot of gravity

12:50

to the situation. And

12:52

you know, as you've driven through

12:55

that neighborhood, this is not the

12:57

setting for a horror movie. This

12:59

is not some creepy old building in

13:01

some disheveled neighborhood. This

13:03

is pristine, expensive, multi-million

13:05

dollar homes. Your

13:07

fear level wouldn't be up necessarily stepping

13:10

into a home like this. Chris, as

13:12

a skeptic, does that make it harder

13:14

to explain away when you have many

13:16

different people having similar or identical experiences

13:18

in the same place? To some extent,

13:20

I think what we need to

13:22

do when we get that kind of situation

13:24

is to really look in detail at the

13:26

accounts that we're being given. There is this

13:28

phenomenon of what we call memory conformity, when

13:31

two people think that they're having

13:33

the same kind of experience and they talk

13:35

about it, and one person's account can actually

13:38

influence another person's memory. So that person ends

13:40

up maybe adding in some elements from the

13:42

other person's account that perhaps weren't even really

13:44

there in the beginning. Jeff, we spend a

13:46

lot of time on uncanny wondering who or

13:49

what could be responsible for haunting. Kerry

13:52

feels that she has that answer, it's Arthur, and a

13:54

moment when she believes that she sees him looming over

13:56

her in bed. I

13:58

think we all felt the room get a little bit colder. We

14:00

did. No one wants to wake up to

14:02

that. You're in your bed, you're supposed to

14:05

be safe, and now someone's standing there. That's

14:07

an intruder, by any definition. And

14:09

when you think you know who it is,

14:11

and maybe that he's angry with you for

14:13

something you did decades ago, that

14:16

must be so frightening. It's

14:18

not just seeing a wispy figure and then attaching a

14:20

name to it to give us some false sense of

14:22

control. That's recognizing who that

14:24

person was in the space where he

14:26

lived. And to me, that's

14:28

profound. I know this sounds

14:30

like such a woo woo term, but I

14:32

think to some degree, Carrie summoned the

14:35

spirit of Arthur Grant. She called to

14:37

him, remembering this imposing figure next door that

14:39

was mad at her because she was goofing

14:41

off. She was being a normal

14:43

kid. However, a neighbor found

14:45

that annoying. And now here it is all

14:47

coming full circle again. Chris,

14:50

this is nighttime, obviously, so we have to

14:52

consider sleep related hallucinations. But Carrie

14:54

feels that she is definitely awake. And

14:56

also, it happens so frequently. And I

14:58

just wonder, you know, once

15:00

we could dismiss it as a nightmare, but

15:03

what about when it's happening this regularly? When

15:05

I heard about this incident where she feels

15:07

that Arthur is looming over her in the

15:09

bed, that immediately brought to mind

15:11

sleep paralysis. And, you know, sometimes

15:13

it might be just a dark figure

15:15

or someone where they can't see her

15:18

face at all. Quite often, interestingly, it's

15:20

someone that they do know. And we

15:22

know that some people have sleep paralysis

15:25

experiences on a regular basis for certain

15:27

periods of their lives. And then they

15:29

might fade out again. And so it

15:32

is possible. OK, look, Jeff, we

15:34

have no way of tangibly proving that Carrie

15:36

is awake. But in Sarah's case, she

15:39

is 100 percent definitely awake, isn't she? She gets

15:41

up, she goes to check the house, she spends

15:43

hours coughing politely in a very English way. This

15:46

is not a nightmare. No, when she hears something

15:48

and she gets up to investigate, I

15:50

love that her first assumption was, well, my goodness,

15:52

my my cousin must have let someone else stay

15:54

here as a guest and didn't tell me because

15:57

that's logical. But then when she goes to investigate and realize

15:59

that Carrie is awake, she's awake. is that the room is

16:01

full of stuff that no one could have been staying in

16:04

that room that just makes this case even more compelling. Because

16:06

now you've got someone who lives there all the time and

16:08

someone who's a guest there all experiencing

16:11

the same thing. All right, thank you both. There's so

16:13

much to debate in this case and so much more

16:15

to This

16:18

is the story of how

16:20

a group of people brought

16:22

music back to Afghanistan by

16:24

creating their own version of

16:26

American Idol. The

16:29

joy they brought to the nation. You're

16:31

free completely. No one is there

16:33

to destroy you. The danger they

16:35

endured. They said my head should

16:37

be cut off. I'm

16:39

John Legend. Listen to Afghan

16:42

Star on the iHeartRadio app or

16:44

wherever you get your podcast. Come,

16:51

let us head back to that bungalow

16:54

in Montecito because if this really is

16:56

the spirit of Arthur Grant, the man

16:58

who built the house, the neighbour that

17:00

Kerry as a teenager used to annoy,

17:02

then her relationship with him in

17:04

death is about to take a

17:06

very dark turn. The

17:09

times that you feel that you've found him standing over

17:11

you watching you in your bed at night, that

17:14

to me feels utterly terrifying, is

17:17

it? It's undeniably scary,

17:19

but it didn't feel threatening. There

17:22

was this one time though that was different. Tell

17:24

me about it. This is like 10 years ago

17:27

and I lock everything up. I get

17:29

into bed and I start to hear

17:32

walking noises and I don't like that

17:34

and I'm trying to

17:36

just go to sleep, like just be

17:38

relaxed, and

17:41

eventually I go to sleep and I'm woken

17:43

up by him standing over me and

17:46

I freeze and he

17:48

leans in to me and he speaks

17:50

and it's the only time

17:52

I've ever heard him speak and

17:54

he says, you bitch. And

17:58

it's a very scary thing to hear. I

18:00

think that is an understatement. It's bloody horrible,

18:02

but could you have imagined

18:04

this? It is late at night. I'm like

18:06

a total feminist. I don't talk like that

18:08

to my friends. I don't talk like that

18:10

to myself. So it really

18:12

was threatening, frightening.

18:15

Every other experience I've described is like

18:18

neutral, and this was not neutral.

18:20

You tangibly hear this. He comes towards me and

18:23

he whispers it in my ear. You

18:25

bitch. Bloody hell carrier. What do you do? I

18:27

just jumped up and I just got out of

18:29

the room. I turned

18:31

on all the lights and sat on the couch and

18:34

I just waited until dawn. I'm

18:40

out in the garden just trying to take all of this

18:42

in. It's such a terrifying and menacing

18:45

idea that Arthur was leaning over

18:47

Kerry in bed, whispering that

18:50

misogynistic word to her. But as real as

18:52

it felt, could it

18:54

have been some kind of hallucination based on

18:56

her knowledge of their relationship in life? Is

18:59

she imagining his desire to

19:01

take revenge on her? Or

19:04

is he really still here inside that

19:06

bungalow refusing to fully hand it over?

19:09

If it is a hallucination, then it's

19:11

one that is shared by so many

19:13

other people because we've heard from Sarah

19:15

already. We know that several of Kerry's

19:17

friends have stayed here and experienced things,

19:20

both auditory and visual. And

19:22

now it is time to

19:24

hear about the experiences of the other

19:27

living adult in this house,

19:29

Kerry's husband, Jamison. He's

19:32

currently sitting inside on the sofa now that their

19:34

kids are in bed, ready to

19:36

talk to me. Jamison.

19:39

Hello. I was told

19:42

that you are the skeptic in this household. I

19:44

am. I mean, I guess. I don't

19:46

know. So what happened to you

19:48

then? What did you experience yourself? Several

19:51

times in the bedroom that's up this

19:53

hallway. I've been woken up with a

19:55

sensation of someone walking in the room

19:57

and looking at me. And

19:59

that's... unsettling and not great. How

20:02

did that make you feel? Terrified. Because I'm

20:04

seeing a shape in the room or a

20:06

shape entering the room looking at me or

20:08

coming towards me. One of two things

20:10

that's happening here either there's

20:13

a ghost and you are all experiencing it or

20:17

this is contagion and you're

20:19

influencing each other. Yes. The

20:22

story that Kerry told me

20:24

about what she felt the

20:27

ghost called her. That's so

20:29

horrible. How do you feel

20:31

about that? I don't like it at all. I

20:34

mean I think we spend a lot of time like rationalizing

20:36

the psychology of our would-be ghost and

20:39

coming to terms with well he built

20:41

the house he was a family man.

20:43

We're a family respecting the house certainly

20:46

we can all get along here. I don't

20:48

think there's any need for bad blood. But

20:51

does Arthur feel the same way because there

20:54

is one other incident that we need to

20:56

talk about it's something that involves Jameson and

20:59

well prepare to feel

21:01

a shiver down your spine. This is

21:03

a few years ago and Kerry is

21:05

in the bedroom nursing her newborn baby.

21:08

And oh he's teething so I have him in bed with

21:10

me and he starts to fuss and

21:12

Jameson comes into the room I'm like can

21:14

you get the teething tablets and he

21:17

walks out of the room and then he comes back

21:19

and I'm like did

21:21

you get them and

21:23

he doesn't say anything to me and

21:25

then he walks out of the room and then I'm like Jameson

21:28

did you get them and

21:30

then from beside me

21:33

in bed Jameson says what? So

21:35

hold on Jameson is in bed with you. He's

21:37

in bed beside me the whole time. So who was it

21:39

who came into the room? It's a person it what it

21:41

looks like a person the exact shape of a man.

21:44

It seemed like he was responding to me and

21:47

then he walks out of the room and I just

21:49

believed it was my husband. This is so unsettling

21:51

Kerry how do you feel about this?

21:53

That one feels much more unnerving

21:55

and I don't know how to make sense of

21:58

that one. I mean that scared me. It

22:00

scares me on a very different level. I

22:10

am back with our experts, Jeff Belanger and

22:12

Professor Chris French. What a

22:14

case we have on our hands here, Jeff.

22:17

It felt menacing when Arthur was leaning over

22:19

Kerry in bed. What the

22:21

hell do we make of him calling her

22:23

a bitch? There would have been a collective

22:25

gasp, I think, from everybody listening there. This

22:27

to me is the culmination of how frightening

22:29

it can be. Because it's

22:31

one thing if something's just there in your home

22:33

or in your room. Of course that's frightening, but

22:36

when it calls you a bitch, suddenly that's

22:38

a threat. It's a threat to a

22:41

woman, to Kerry, and now to

22:43

me this escalates things to a whole

22:45

other level. Everybody listening to

22:47

this right now is here because

22:49

they enjoy ghost stories. There's

22:51

something about hearing these tales

22:54

that gives us some sort of pleasurable sensations

22:56

and little shiver down our spine or just,

22:58

you know, intrigues us and interests us. Living

23:01

through one is very different. If you're listening,

23:03

it's a lot like going on a roller

23:05

coaster or going to a fun house. You

23:08

know you're safe, you're strapped in, but

23:10

living there, having nowhere else to go, is

23:13

quite another thing. Chris, Kerry makes the point

23:15

that this is not a word that she would ever

23:17

use. If she was imagining this, why

23:20

would she conjure it up? What

23:22

did you make of that? It's interesting that

23:24

Kerry describes herself as a feminist and says,

23:26

this is a word I would never use.

23:28

I can't quite accept that.

23:30

But often in situations where we may

23:33

be talking about nightmares or sleep paralysis or whatever

23:35

else it is, your own mind

23:37

will shock you. Some of the kind

23:39

of imagery that people experience during nightmares

23:42

is absolutely bizarre and

23:44

perverse and weird. And probably a lot

23:46

of us don't tell everybody about all the

23:48

things that we might dream about because it

23:50

is just so weird and it's coming from

23:52

our own minds. So that stuff is in

23:55

there. The very fact that she finds the

23:57

word so shocking means that it's a salient

23:59

word for her. So our

24:01

minds are able to conjure up

24:03

our worst fears during nightmares. Another

24:06

chilling moment occurs when Kerry

24:08

feels that she is talking to James and she asks

24:10

him to go and get teething tablets, but it is

24:12

not him. That is pretty freaky.

24:15

Having said that, you know, she's just

24:17

described that she's had a sleepless night

24:19

with a teething baby. And

24:22

so I think what we might be seeing here

24:24

is again kind of call it what you will,

24:26

hallucination, imagination from a sleep deprived mum. Jeff, what

24:28

did you make of that? Are

24:30

we witnessing an apparition of Arthur here?

24:33

Kerry was, and she's the only judge and jury

24:36

that we can count on right now. She

24:38

knows what she saw. She knows that she was

24:40

of sound mind and body, and

24:42

she knows what she's experiencing. I

24:44

also think it's worth noting that she's

24:47

got a baby. And as

24:49

a parent, I can tell you

24:51

nothing in the world changes you like having

24:53

a child. Here's this delicate,

24:55

precious, vulnerable infant that we're responsible for.

24:58

To me, that's worse than the bitch

25:00

thing. If you think about it, right?

25:02

I'm with my baby. And

25:05

now there's this intruder that's walked into

25:07

my room and out and back again.

25:10

You could say maybe I was mistaken, saw something out of

25:13

the corner of my eye, but it came back. And

25:15

to me, that adds a lot of credence to this case.

25:17

All right. Thank you both. There's so many interesting avenues we

25:19

can get down in this case. But

25:21

let's go back to that Californian bungalow,

25:24

Arthur's house, one last

25:26

time. Kerry, I feel like

25:28

most people, and I think definitely

25:31

me, would have run screaming

25:33

from this place. And yet, despite everything

25:35

that's happened, you've gone from

25:37

having this as your temporary home, the guest

25:39

house, to living here full time. Yes. I

25:41

had all of these weird feelings about being

25:44

back, you know? But

25:46

it's a really wonderful house. And

25:49

it's actually like, since we moved here full

25:51

time, I think maybe things have changed and

25:54

shifted. And this is

25:56

one of the most interesting parts of the case for

25:58

me, because whilst you might have thought that things were

26:00

going to be different, would intensify with Kerry, Jameson and

26:02

now their own young children living here 24-7. The

26:06

opposite seems to be true. Kerry sees

26:08

a thawing in her Cold War with Arthur.

26:11

Kerry and Jameson have one last thing

26:13

they want to show me before I

26:15

leave. They lead me to their bathroom

26:17

and rather bizarrely Jameson takes out a

26:19

screwdriver and starts to unscrew the beautifully

26:22

antique, slightly rusty 1960s

26:24

medicine cabinet from the wall above the sink.

26:27

It is of course the original,

26:29

installed by Arthur himself. What is

26:31

behind this medicine cabinet? The final

26:35

screw is out. There's some

26:37

cabinets coming out the hole.

26:40

Oh, there we go. Hidden

26:43

behind the cabinet, pinned to the wall,

26:45

is a very old piece of paper

26:47

decaying and almost parchment like now. It

26:50

says Arthur Grant, 1950... I

26:53

think it's six.

26:56

It says his name in the year he

26:58

built it. Though as you can see it's

27:02

quite deteriorated. It looks like a leaf and

27:04

it's got his name right in the middle there and

27:06

underneath it a license number. Because yeah,

27:08

he was licensed to build

27:11

it himself. Nobody else built it. He

27:13

himself built it. It's like an

27:15

artist signing his painting. It is,

27:17

yes. And when

27:19

we found it we just, we kept it

27:21

there. After all that happened when you

27:24

attempted to tear this down? No,

27:27

no. I would be

27:29

disrespectful. It's his house too. Do

27:35

you feel that this is your house? Or

27:37

is it Arthur's house? I actually like

27:40

love being here. I feel so

27:42

lucky to be here. But I think it

27:44

is also his house. I feel, not

27:46

watched, but yes, I can

27:48

feel him in this room. I

27:50

get scared but it's mixed with like genuine

27:52

gratitude of being able to be here. I

27:55

feel protective of the house. I don't

27:57

want animosity. And... We

28:00

coexist. Thank

28:04

you so much to Kerry, Jameson and

28:06

of course my old friend Sarah who

28:08

introduced me to this case. That is

28:10

heartbreakingly the final episode of this season

28:12

of Uncanny USA. Please email me all

28:14

of your thoughts and theories to uncanny

28:17

at bbc.co.uk because we

28:19

will have a bonus case update for

28:21

you at some point to follow up

28:23

on new leads and answer your questions.

28:26

Uncanny will be back with brand

28:28

new cases back here in the

28:30

UK and internationally so wherever you

28:32

live in the world. I

28:34

would love to hear from you. Email me. I

28:36

love this thing that we have

28:38

created together this uncanny community of believers

28:41

and skeptics and everybody like me in the

28:43

middle who come together to

28:45

try and make sense of these delicious dark

28:49

intriguing mysteries. Long may that continue until

28:51

we meet again sleep well

28:54

and don't have nightmares. Uncanny

28:57

USA was written and presented by me

28:59

Danny Robbins. It was co-produced by me

29:02

and Simon Barnard. Our editor and sound

29:04

designer is Charlie Brandon King and music

29:06

is composed by Evelyn Sykes. Our theme

29:08

tune is by Lantons on the Lake.

29:10

The script editor is Dale Shaw and

29:13

our production manager is Tam Reynolds. The

29:15

commissioning executive is Paul McDonald and the

29:17

commissioning editor is Rhianne Roberts. This is

29:19

a baffle gab and uncanny media production

29:21

for BBC Radio 4 and BBC Sounds.

29:50

Hi guys, I'm Ryland and this is

29:52

How to be in the Spotlight from

29:55

BBC Sounds. It's the podcast where

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together we're gonna hear what it's like to

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be thrust into the public. public eye, by

30:01

those who've lived to tell the tale. In

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this podcast, I'm going to be joined by

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12 fantastic guests who are going to share

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how they've learned to navigate the perks, pressures

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and pitfalls of fame. This

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is Rylan, how to be in the

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spotlight, listening on BBC Sounds. This

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is the story of how a

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group of people brought music back

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to Afghanistan by creating their own

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joy they brought to the nation.

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You're free completely. No one is

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there to destroy you. The danger

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they endured. They said my

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head should be cut off. I'm

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John Legend. Listen to

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Afghan Star on the iHeartRadio app

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or wherever you get your podcasts.