0:01

This is a Cbc podcast.

0:04

You. listening to episode to plotlines.

0:07

This. Episode contains some strong

0:09

language. As

0:15

it. In the camps? Yes. Visiting

0:17

my house. Rogen Hall. My thing

0:20

about women and children? Yes, the

0:22

children. It's

0:27

November twenty first. A day after

0:29

I left London, I'm at the

0:31

border office in Iraqi Kurdistan waiting

0:34

to cross into Syria. I

0:38

spent last night half convince we were going to have

0:40

to cool off this trip. Because. When

0:42

I was in the air. Tacky. Began

0:45

bombing the region of Syria. I need to

0:47

get into. Neighboring

0:50

Turkey is firing missiles

0:52

unrelentingly payback it claims

0:54

for deadly attacks. including

0:57

a bombing in Istanbul and. To

1:01

day things are just stable enough that

1:03

I can make the journey across the

1:05

border. My producer, Juwan, traveled a couple

1:07

of days before me. He's on the

1:09

other side waiting for me. So

1:12

I get on a cramped mini boss and make

1:14

it of the Tigris on a rickety bridge. Hi

1:29

gene pool easier or

1:31

you. Like gay? Are you really

1:33

be worried about? yeah? Mayor is being

1:36

kind of lonely. Intense hectic here

1:38

is actually you know they arrived

1:40

on a was very normal so

1:42

yes to all you'd. Never. Guess from

1:45

Jones easy manner that just yesterday

1:47

he was precariously close to bomb

1:49

strikes. But. John is more

1:51

or less unflappable. We've. Worked together

1:53

before and I trust him

1:56

completely. So

1:58

now we have this meeting. Then

2:00

in the middle of my

2:02

socially responders or similar size

2:05

meal or shallow but luckily

2:07

today. To an answer has has been trying

2:09

to get us into the camps. the whole the

2:11

women and children who once lived on dry as.

2:14

These of the sporting tent cities

2:16

I taught that area surrounded by

2:18

barbed wire and God. Is by

2:20

armed soldiers the cold out?

2:22

How in our roads and

2:24

assume. I made it has allies. This

2:26

is where he likes. He ended up. To

2:30

Five refers me of fame or thought

2:33

Humbling o'clock midnight on after everything is

2:35

completely change the know We've been contacted

2:37

by his the of by the security.

2:40

The meetings with them been cancelled a

2:42

lot of them were all of them

2:44

are cancelled so he couldn't do anything

2:46

on. The Fcs of

2:49

the Syrian Democratic Forces, a

2:51

Kurdish lead military alliance. They.

2:53

Helped to cease fire and now God

2:55

the current. We.

2:57

Need that mission to get in. The.

3:00

The Fcs a being hit by

3:02

Turkish asteroids. I'm older dealing

3:04

with them. They can't do with. The.

3:13

Make it through the border and

3:16

seen with driving to new Ccs.

3:20

The place is a real frontier town.

3:22

five the today is deserted such as

3:24

a down. Pizza. Morning this

3:26

killed in the as soon it. Will.

3:29

Try meeting with the Scs again tomorrow

3:31

when things might be clara. There's

3:34

a now. Does. An update on my

3:36

search for some on. Your.

3:39

You're getting late there now, so why

3:41

don't I update you on little bits

3:43

I have? I'm not sure if it's

3:45

great, that's the shall that has to

3:47

the journalists I'm working with in Toronto.

3:50

Michelle spent the past couple of

3:53

decades covering terrorists and national security

3:55

and she's been looking for information

3:57

about baby so mans Canadian mother.

4:01

Hertha. Ice. Has been a

4:03

complete guess who's. That. Michelle signed

4:05

a contract he could help. A.

4:07

Friend Devices sister. I

4:10

did talk to our contacts Cool

4:12

right at a very long discussion

4:14

with the sister. Wow.

4:17

So I guess the main thing is

4:19

that it it has been confirmed that

4:21

the right family she had this little

4:23

boy. I mean, it's actually

4:25

her. The family is can

4:28

credibly traumatized by this. This

4:30

is the new thing now.

4:32

Apparently a friend of hers

4:34

called. And she said that

4:36

nobody survived. In their minds,

4:38

he's He's no longer alive.

4:42

Today is to this concert

4:45

provide any information on. Who

4:47

that person was? Who calls. Know.

4:50

So I asked that I said you know, Could we.

4:56

Is sounds a lot like the

4:58

mysterious message the last few months

5:00

grandfather don't see when I sit

5:02

tight. Muscles contact

5:04

makes it sound like Isis family has

5:06

no hope. This woman may have survived.

5:10

I'm not really suits me to this. Sunday.

5:13

Not unreasonable to think for months. Dead.

5:16

But without knowing more about who calls

5:18

what they actually new. It's

5:20

not enough for me to abandon my such. I

5:23

know there are certain. Authors.

5:26

Who looked after by other women? Nasa

5:28

and to do that to authorities. Will.

5:37

Listen, you go get some sleep

5:39

there. And I have a huge day tomorrow.

5:42

And please. Check out the checks on

5:44

the web Zombie Either that your

5:46

save some color or it's okay.

5:48

Take their seats. said they'd have

5:50

I. Not.

5:55

Long after I can have the cool with

5:57

Michelle. My sense of going crazy. The

6:00

next room to want is going off t. It's

6:03

our colleagues and contacts warning us that

6:06

Turkey's on the verge of sending. In

6:08

from trees. If

6:10

that happens, the Scs say they

6:12

will go to the border to

6:14

defend their territory. The

6:16

camps could be left on daughters and

6:18

I ask could have a chance to

6:20

break him free. At supporters. In

6:23

touch her thousands of children. I'm

6:40

feed him. Sedates her. This

6:43

is bloodlines. He

7:02

added me as a. Should

7:05

at be here a. Says

7:09

here's flame Master famous her this

7:11

is a target of an effort.

7:15

And. Radio

7:17

City Face. Though

7:20

the night Turkey has since his filming

7:22

again. Some of the

7:24

targets a dangerously close and with has

7:26

to new. Hundred

7:30

and that have a secular filming.

7:32

It isn't reporting. And the money than.

7:35

We are not hanging around say. This

7:41

may be turning into a full scale

7:43

war. The man in charge of the

7:45

Fcs is General Muslim up t he'll

7:47

know what's going on if we want

7:49

name what's going on will need to.

7:52

Try to speak to him. Around here

7:54

the general is seen as a hero, the

7:56

man who let the fight against. I

7:58

am but in. He's

8:01

on its most wanted list. General

8:06

Maslian, you might have a lot of answers for

8:08

us. Especially

8:10

regarding the camps, the ISIS presence,

8:12

the women, the children. So

8:15

it would be really good to have him. Yeah, maybe

8:17

he can put in a good word. If

8:20

there's anyone who can get us into the camps, it's

8:23

the General. How

8:32

many days have you been in the camp? Late

8:35

that night, there's a knock at my door. It's

8:38

Jouan. Hey.

8:40

Good news, bad news. The

8:43

Al Hall has been targeted in

8:45

the three airstrike. What the fuck? Yeah. Oh

8:48

my goodness. Yeah, Al Hall camp.

8:52

Al Hall is the biggest camp. It's

8:54

where most of the kids were taken after the fall of

8:56

IS. Yes, and it's the first place

8:58

I wanted to look for Salman. 25,000

9:02

children live there, half under the age of

9:04

12. It's not clear yet

9:06

if anyone was killed. But

9:09

a bomb in a place with so many kids is

9:11

awful news. Oh

9:15

my God, this is a disaster, Jouan.

9:17

I'm believable. I can't believe this. Al

9:20

Hall camp being bombed, that's

9:22

just insane. That's beyond... Fucking

9:28

calling, he's probably going to tell about Al Hall too.

9:31

Okay, a pretty loud speaker maybe. That's

9:44

a nice spot. Yeah, he says in the same

9:46

news that the Hall has been targeted, and

9:48

he says also that some of the Romans are

9:50

saying some women are escaped. So

9:53

he's going to talk to the SDF

9:55

guy who is his friend to

9:57

check how many escaped. I

10:00

can't believe this thing and Holkamp being

10:02

found that's just insane, that's beyond... I

10:07

am getting seriously worried now. So

10:12

you should know this now. That's

10:21

my mother messaging. Did

10:24

you hear about Elle? Yeah, she said

10:26

she had five news and I can't believe it. My

10:31

mother doesn't want the news anymore. She

10:36

pictures over when she sees Syria. Our

10:41

search for Salman has to take a back seat to the

10:43

breaking news. And yet, what's

10:46

playing out right now is Salman's

10:48

story, the greatest story about

10:50

the legacy of IS, and the kids

10:52

in these camps. The situation

10:55

is so precarious, everyone has

10:57

warned that. No one

10:59

more so than the man we have just

11:01

secured an interview with, General

11:03

Abdi. I'm

11:14

guessing security is going to be

11:16

really tough. So again, to check our stuff and

11:19

everything as well. So

11:27

we're just outside this huge coalition base

11:29

now. And Fahad

11:31

is just negotiating

11:33

with the soldiers at the entrance

11:37

for us to be allowed in. If

11:42

you notice, Fahad is dressing well today. My

11:44

partly dressed person here. I

11:46

asked him this morning, you look

11:48

like she's going to a wedding, because I'm

11:50

meeting the General. I

11:53

think we're going to have to stop recording soon. Because

11:56

this is a really sensitive

11:59

area. And we

12:01

don't want to get on

12:03

the wrong side of our hosts. Let's

12:07

just see if they let us in first. The

12:13

base is surrounded by fortified walls,

12:15

watch towers, satellite dishes.

12:18

Earlier this week, it was hit by a

12:20

Turkish airstrike. The SDS

12:22

say two of its officers were killed. A

12:27

couple of heavily armed guards wade us through the

12:29

gates. So,

12:39

one, two, yeah, one, two, one, two. Yeah, I'm

12:42

going to be speaking like this. I'm

12:45

going to be talking to the general about concerns about...

12:47

Yeah, you can call us later. Okay.

12:50

That's better. Yeah, like John, can

12:52

you speak? You

12:54

should go home now. It's

13:01

a pleasure to meet you, sir. It's

13:03

a pleasure to meet you, sir. Thank you.

13:06

Thank you. General Abdi comes into

13:08

the room with his translator. He's

13:10

in a pristine combat uniform and

13:13

highly polished boots. He's

13:15

about six foot, mid-fifties, ramrod

13:18

posture. He's focused,

13:20

calm, and judging by the

13:22

look in his eyes, battle weary.

13:27

Are we good to roll? Yes,

13:29

great. So,

13:31

General, you mentioned the IS fighters

13:34

and their families and the detainees in

13:36

prisons and camps. So,

13:39

if there is a ground assault, is that going

13:41

to impact the way

13:43

you guard those prisons

13:45

and camps and detention centers? We

13:49

have... more

14:00

than 12,000 ISIS detainees in

14:02

all detention centres, tens of thousands

14:05

of ISIS fire family members that

14:07

first started a ground operation. All

14:09

of our forces and colleagues will

14:12

be busy protecting their

14:14

families and the relatives instead of

14:16

protecting their camps. I'm trying to

14:18

say that the implications of a

14:20

ground operation will be very

14:22

very complicated and very negative. It's

14:27

not the first time the SCS has threatened

14:29

to abandon the prisons and camps if

14:31

Turkey starts a ground operation. Leaving

14:35

thousands of IS prisoners unguarded has

14:37

a way of grabbing the headlines

14:39

in this largely forgotten region. But

14:42

when it comes hours after a strike on

14:45

Al-Haul it feels like more

14:47

than just posturing. What

14:51

is your message to the international community now?

15:03

I would like to give them

15:06

this message. It's been eight years

15:08

since we have been fighting on

15:10

behalf of the international community against

15:13

ISIS. We fought heavy fights. All

15:16

these games now are at risk. It's

15:18

everyone's etiquette to stand beside us

15:21

as Dr. Furch from launching this

15:23

operation. A lot of blood

15:25

has been sheared on this ground in order to bring

15:27

freedom to the students. Throughout

15:34

our interview the general refers to

15:36

the camps as ticking time bombs.

15:39

This is a line he's used a lot in the

15:41

past. If this

15:43

Turkish offensive continues he says

15:46

that bomb will go off. I

15:53

wrap things up. Joanne needs some wide

15:55

shots of the general for the TV piece we're

15:58

doing. Oh

16:00

like movie to Minnesota. Six Six

16:02

Six I saw the next Buffalo.

16:04

Terms of a I made my

16:06

way to the channel site. And

16:09

I came to. This is

16:12

a can't allow camp. The

16:14

rehabilitation centers. And the Prison

16:16

Sophie A very, very big

16:18

trip. And because of

16:21

everything that's happening with facing a

16:23

fusillade sense of plunging, Stick be

16:25

any suggestions he could make to

16:27

offer Any. Health he could offer put

16:29

him because of them, The Sims and it's

16:31

all of it emits hospice at a sovereign

16:34

out of old. Unfortunately

16:36

we've had to freeze letter to

16:38

the teeth because of state for

16:41

issue. As you

16:43

were with us to support your

16:45

efforts here today to move. Will

16:47

have to say see house situation

16:49

is developing If you're saying more

16:52

than three four days and nights

16:54

Cisco's is getting better. were offering

16:56

old for for something. He will be

16:58

his. Had two more weeks senses I. Don't

17:00

remember her mobile to that of says

17:03

anything. A merciless Frantisek. I.

17:16

Never know if that. Doesn't

17:18

tell. Me something. he are really good

17:20

on a device it's only a few

17:23

hours soft on meeting with a general.

17:25

Lot more is quite good but sorry go

17:28

to from a chiffon whole but not for

17:30

today or tomorrow so we can go through

17:32

and whole tomorrow on where you probably can

17:34

get and to the cop inside the couples

17:36

are. Fantastic! That is

17:38

pretty nice. We

17:44

finally have a certain the door into one

17:46

of the places with some on may have

17:48

been. He

18:05

tried to our whole take

18:07

the couple of hours. It's

18:09

late November and it's cove

18:11

dance and foggy. The camp

18:13

sustained after the local town

18:15

itself once occupied. By oh yes.

18:29

And it is there. a house if he can see that

18:31

isn't. Always

18:34

the. Case.

18:43

On. Your.

18:47

Device. Driving.

18:55

Days. Rules.

19:04

Have one of his regime. Specially.

19:07

If you off not or

19:10

yes was your journalists I

19:12

thought. On.

19:26

Oh why are so far apart from

19:28

Never Made A fox? I

19:33

remember that day in June

19:35

twenty fourteen, when they declared.

19:38

Caliphate, a careless eight in Mosul.

19:40

I was in Iraq like that.

19:42

Yeah, the time has. Come

19:53

for you know once Isis released

19:55

as Brutal videos only think you

19:57

would have to come to your

19:59

mom. When you hear the word

20:01

Isis dice a thought you would

20:04

be slaughtered. You will be beheaded.

20:06

they had it on. His videos

20:08

were brutal. Are

20:11

never easy of ours is approaching

20:13

this area v with the mosque

20:15

displaced. People with

20:18

each way to see say. I

20:32

am just. See

20:35

the spilled into can still see the

20:37

bullets holes and stop them. obviously

20:40

the the school. Yard own. alas, They

20:43

had a big big flag painted or with

20:45

i us flag and of on it and

20:47

they painted over. ah but we still a

20:49

thing can see some signs of the by

20:52

lot. And these people who are

20:54

living had the people who we see

20:56

today. Is it likely that they were

20:58

living here while I us were in

21:00

control? Of. You

21:05

see on the right this is a

21:07

where the Yazidi slave market was so

21:10

they will just other them all here

21:12

in the street. And then

21:14

they will sell them. They are the ones

21:16

we captured in suggests about his injuries not

21:18

far from his by members of this. You.

21:22

See: these are a minority ethnic group living

21:24

in the area and they were the targets

21:26

of the genocide. Thousands. Of

21:28

men, women and children were rounded up.

21:31

Some of the worst atrocities took

21:34

place at Mount Sinjar about forty

21:36

kilometers away, just across Iraq. Buddha.

21:39

Many. Of the men were killed. Younger.

21:41

Boys has forced to fight for us.

21:44

And women report him. And

21:46

sold into domestic servitude and

21:49

sexual slavery. Whole

21:55

town in a narrow streets. Hustling

22:00

Market it would literally be on the

22:02

street. Says women paraded

22:04

and is rose. and

22:08

until today they they find a mass

22:10

graves got they killed his his men

22:13

because they see as easy as unofficial.

22:15

Were was standing right now. there

22:17

would have been women change. an

22:19

Iron Man would have read a

22:21

book boss had for them. They

22:23

would is just the first for

22:25

a sec says settling. For

22:29

this is a building that traditionally what with

22:31

a building useful before we know he was

22:33

a school it was a school and then

22:36

they turned it into Syria Quarter. Where

22:39

they would just out there version

22:42

of justice. Those

22:45

census people to this exact

22:47

situation. Beheading. I

22:51

think we're not coming to some place

22:53

like this. Really brings it home. Since

22:57

the How Bruce High as fly

22:59

under that Homicide. Cathy,

23:03

we better go in with it when I hung around.

23:05

His. Case,

23:18

When I'm when. I'm home. With

23:21

a road rules. That we can see. The.

23:32

Metal fan. Barbed

23:34

wire. Surrounding the

23:36

perimeter. I'll

23:39

whole campus is full of does

23:41

he want tenth more than fifty

23:44

thousand people? his head surrounded by

23:46

concrete fences and razor wire. It's

23:48

a fine and some priests who

23:51

plays well. Yes. and it's ideology

23:53

endures. So

23:59

through the. The checkpoint here are more serious also.

24:01

They took the paper, they have to check

24:03

with the administration on everybody that are, if

24:05

they are really expecting us or not. High

24:08

above this whole region are spy planes,

24:11

drones, balloons, satellites,

24:14

Russian, American, Turkish.

24:17

If they care to, some intelligence operatives

24:19

somewhere could probably zoom in and see

24:21

the colour of the vehicle we're in.

24:24

Yeah, our security is tight here. It

24:27

looks quiet. Children

24:32

are the only ones that seem to be out, young children, and

24:34

those tents look pretty fluffy. Some

24:36

of them are perched up from any altogether. So

24:39

the tents just go on. There's

24:48

just rows and rows and rows and rows of tents. Do

24:53

you want in front of us armored vehicles?

24:59

Now that tells us something. Last time I

25:01

was in an armored vehicle, it was usually

25:03

during a military embed. So

25:06

they need that now to get through the town. There

25:09

were no armored vehicles in the camp before

25:11

actually. They start to have, because

25:13

in that last security operation in the

25:16

camp, they found automatic weapons,

25:18

pistols, grenades, silent

25:23

devices for the weapons. This

25:29

is quite heavy. So

25:31

I don't still know if it's very quiet now

25:34

where we are, you can feel

25:36

that tension. If

25:39

you look at the right, this guy,

25:41

the security, who's sitting there, standing there,

25:44

you know, a lot of them, they

25:46

cover their faces. That's right. I was

25:48

thinking that. Because they're scared to identify

25:50

themselves and

25:52

they're living somewhere around here, they

25:54

could be target themselves, like themselves,

25:57

just overnight going to their house. house,

26:00

shoot them, kill them and leave. OK,

26:14

Fahad. This is Fahad.

26:16

I've got good news. Walk. He's here

26:18

for a happy face. I'm

26:30

not going to do anything. I'm going to buy a place. Radio,

26:33

inter-security office, all right, OK, go. That

26:40

was just for the game. This is the official.

26:42

This is now the reporter. We

26:47

go inside a small office on the edge of a

26:49

courtyard. There are about half

26:51

a dozen intelligence officers known

26:53

as the FIEs. They're

26:55

courteous, but there's a heaviness in the

26:57

room. They're grieving the loss of

26:59

their colleagues, the eight people

27:01

killed in the recent bomb strike. They

27:04

apologize. They say they can't take

27:06

us into the camp today. There

27:08

are no longer enough staff to escort us.

27:13

I understand. I'm not

27:15

going to push. But

27:17

it means we'll have to renegotiate access

27:20

and try to find Salman another day. As

27:32

we drive out of Al-Haul, Fahad stops the car and pulls over. Juwan

27:34

points to a hill, maybe half a kilometer away. We've

27:41

just stopped outside a small cemetery, Juwan. Yeah,

27:44

this is a cemetery where, I mean, originally it belonged

27:47

to the town Al-Haul, but there is this kind of side extension

27:49

of it. It's

27:52

been for the people who died or been killed in the hospital.

27:56

It's been for the people who died or been

27:58

killed in Al-Haul camp. Go

28:01

around there, this is the ones that

28:03

are buried from a hole. You see,

28:05

one, two, three, that one, that

28:07

one, they're all small, they're children. So

28:11

this is where the children who die in our hole

28:13

are buried. And

28:16

there is a tiny mound

28:20

marked by what looks like just

28:22

coodly cut concrete bricks, which

28:25

are marking the graves as well. It

28:31

looks like actually hundreds of children are buried here.

28:37

I mean, I'm not the words actually. I

28:42

think it's really, it's evidence

28:45

about how dangerous our hole is for children and

28:48

how it really is a race against time to bring

28:50

them back. And

28:53

some of them are quite fresh graves. The

28:56

children dying very,

28:58

very recently. Especially,

29:00

you see, you know, this too fresh little

29:03

tiny grave, just like 25 centimeter

29:06

grave. That's babies, isn't it? That's

29:08

a baby, you know. I

29:18

don't know how to describe it. Sasha,

29:28

there are so many dark places around

29:30

here. There's the camp, there's

29:32

the town where IS carried

29:36

out some of its worst acts

29:38

of brutality and depravity. And

29:41

then you have the fact that it's continuing. It's

29:44

just, the death is actually continuing

29:46

and it's children. Next

30:02

time on Bloodline. And

30:05

she said that you guys wanted to know about a

30:07

woman named Aisha and her child. A

30:10

potential breakthrough in the other camp,

30:13

Al Raj. So I don't know if you want to

30:15

know on camera, off camera. I know

30:17

her personally, Aisha. There's a

30:19

woman from Canada there who knew Aisha

30:21

and Salman. And she

30:24

seems to be willing to talk to me. You've

30:32

been listening to Bloodlines from BBC

30:35

Sounds and CBC Podcast. The

30:37

series concept and reporting by me,

30:40

Poonam Tineja. It's

30:42

written and produced by Fiona Woods and Alina

30:44

Ghosh. Our investigations producer

30:46

is Joanne Abde and our

30:48

contributing producer is Nichelle Shephard.

30:51

For her, Fata is our field producer. Our

30:54

sound designer is Julia Whitman. Original

30:57

score by Soul Channel. Emini

30:59

Kanell is a digital coordinating

31:02

producer for CBC Podcast. And

31:04

Caroline McAvoy is a digital producer

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for BBC Sounds. Our

31:09

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31:11

Damon Fannis for CBC Podcast. Executive

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31:16

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31:18

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31:20

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31:35

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31:37

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31:41

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