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future to learn more and support their cause

1:16

Hey, it's no um on unexplainable

1:18

We spend lots of time talking

1:20

about everything. We don't know about

1:22

why we don't know it about

1:25

Questions, but there's another science

1:27

show I love that has a pretty different

1:29

approach. You might have heard about it It's

1:31

called science versus and I

1:33

particularly love listening to this show because they

1:36

feel like they're almost some kind of Complimentary

1:38

kindred spirit like they

1:41

focus on everything we do know about things

1:43

like cannabis or heartbreak or even UFOs But

1:47

instead of being all like well actually They

1:50

do it with humility with genuine

1:52

curiosity and their host

1:54

Wendy Zuckerman is just honestly a joy

1:56

to listen to So

1:58

we wanted to share one of their recent episodes with

2:00

you. I especially like this episode

2:03

because it kind of picks up where one

2:05

of ours left off. We did this episode

2:07

a few years back about a

2:09

debate between scientists on how long we

2:11

might be able to live someday. And

2:14

right at the end we touched on this

2:16

open question about whether we might not just

2:18

be able to extend our lives but

2:21

extend our youth. So

2:23

this week Science vs. Take That

2:26

Question Forward. Can we

2:28

be forever young? Hi,

2:31

I'm Wendy Zuckerman and you're listening to Science vs.

2:34

Family Show is putting facts against a

2:36

phantom of youth. As

2:40

we find out, is there anything

2:42

we can do or take to live

2:44

a longer and healthier life? For

2:51

millennia, people have searched far and

2:53

wide to be a lickser of life. The

2:57

thing to keep our brains is sharp

3:00

as a tuck and our bodies is

3:02

brightly as fuck. It's

3:04

said that Gilgamesh searched at the bottom

3:06

of the sea. Rulers have sent armies

3:08

to their death, kind of

3:10

ironically, on the desperate hunt

3:13

for a magic potion. Something to

3:15

help us live forever. It's

3:18

like for all of human history,

3:20

we've been Indiana Jones reaching for

3:22

the Holy Grail. So

3:24

close. But now, it

3:27

feels like the search is

3:29

over. Now

3:32

scientists say they've made a breakthrough in the search

3:34

for a fountain of youth. If you're looking to

3:36

increase your longevity and slow your aging, the

3:38

brain, the body, everything, you've got to check

3:40

this out. Millions of dollars

3:42

are being poured into startups and research

3:45

labs in the hope of finding the

3:47

secret to a long and healthy life.

3:50

And one place they're looking is in

3:52

the blood of young people. This

3:54

made headlines around the globe when millionaire Brian

3:57

Johnson gave it a go. The

4:00

crime seasons from his teenage son

4:02

even made a shot. Doc out

4:04

at this is amazing. A long,

4:07

healthy life united by the beauties

4:09

of biology. He. Recognizes how insane

4:11

this all sorts of could he

4:13

actually the onto something and away

4:15

from blood boys see says it

4:18

feels like if you aren't any

4:20

expert sounding path and on mine

4:22

what they're taking to get them

4:24

young and healthy. One group of

4:27

the supplements. Is coming over and

4:29

over again over the people that I

4:31

know that looks freakishly an unusually young

4:33

for the rich. I can not get

4:35

over how many of them have told

4:38

me that I'm on a d supplementing

4:40

for about seven adults like a had

4:42

more energy. I did notice like my

4:44

hair and nails growing at a ridiculous

4:46

rates. And finally some

4:49

scientists as so excited about a

4:51

blockbuster drugs for diabetes. And could

4:53

fight aging. That they're literally is

4:55

seeking about at. Is me feel

4:58

so young? It makes me feel

5:00

so young. Stay.

5:05

On the So we'll explore the potential

5:07

powers of young blood big into the

5:09

science on the latest supplements and we

5:11

will tell you what actually works on

5:13

it comes to longevity. There's a lot

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6:36

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6:39

body is your own. That's why

6:41

Planned Parenthood is committed to ensuring that

6:43

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6:45

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expand access to abortion care. Visit

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Planned parenthood.org slash future to learn more

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and support their cause. Welcome

7:45

back. Today on the show, we're talking

7:47

about longevity and the anti

7:49

aging tricks that are seemingly at

7:51

our fingertips. Let's start

7:53

with the most bonkers. Getting

7:55

blood from your teenage son. When

7:59

that millionaire Brian Don't forget add people made

8:01

fun of him because he feels like the

8:03

like this in a long line of. Drugs

8:05

That which states do you know?

8:08

Bobby not getting into sketchy

8:10

submarines, Spade Blood for their

8:12

teenage nuts. But. The thing

8:14

is, this idea that there is some

8:16

elixir of life in young lad is

8:19

something that scientists have been. Looking

8:21

into for decades. And.

8:23

One of those saying this. Is

8:25

team consisting of S and

8:28

he loves researching the potential

8:30

magic inside. Young Blood is

8:32

the perfect mix of by

8:35

size fi world meets academic

8:37

sciences and it's just been

8:39

an obsession and a fun

8:42

obsession. The Reclaim. Kinda decided

8:44

to find out what happened. If you

8:46

get some crotchety old fella and given

8:48

a ton of blood from a hot.

8:51

Spell Timothy Shell and I was busy.

8:54

So damn happy as the next best

8:56

thing. As. A.

8:59

Local scene was. If

9:01

the metals, the old male skips

9:04

this young blood for a long

9:06

time? Could we then start slowing?

9:09

All the hallmarks of aging. The

9:11

idea is that some old Mac Os

9:14

and gonna get blood from a younger

9:16

one for about twelve weeks, which is

9:18

roughly the equivalent of eight years of.

9:20

Human lifespan. So.

9:23

How on Earth did you get all that

9:25

blood from a young mouse? Into.

9:27

An old mouse. Basically.

9:30

We join the most together, surgically

9:32

join them as that and getting

9:34

them. They south side of that

9:36

works as a so small incision

9:38

on the flank of the mouse

9:40

and then we on the sit

9:42

on now is is that the

9:44

flag of basically armpit to this

9:47

to the ship okay kind of

9:49

the incision graduates, he opened that

9:51

up and then you bring that

9:53

together with the other mouse. It's

9:55

basically like gil sewing to pieces

9:57

of cloth together. Stay.

9:59

With me. This

10:02

procedure of stitching animals together is

10:04

called parabiosis and it sounds pretty

10:06

gruesome, but scientists have actually been

10:09

doing it for over a hundred

10:11

years to study all kinds of

10:13

things. So Jim

10:16

does some cutting, then connects the

10:18

skin and other tissues of the

10:20

mouth, which is

10:22

possible because his mice are

10:24

basically identical twins. So

10:26

the blood vessels line up like if one of the blood

10:29

vessels would be like, oh no, I'm

10:41

severed, wait, you'll do, boof. And

10:43

then it finds its... It is, yes,

10:46

it's beautiful. Basically

10:48

they find each other and connect.

10:50

What? Without, that's just biology doing

10:53

cool stuff. And

10:58

once biology has done all of its

11:00

cool stuff and all the

11:02

blood vessels have fused, then Jim

11:04

will run these tests to make sure that, yes,

11:06

the blood of the young mouse is now flowing

11:09

into the old mouse and vice versa. And

11:12

Jim's team also checks to see how rough

11:14

this whole procedure has been for the mice.

11:16

So they look for markers of stress. And

11:19

weirdly, after this pretty

11:22

hectic procedure, the

11:24

mice don't seem that bothered by it

11:26

all. So they take a pretty

11:28

harsh surgery pretty well. And then

11:30

within just a few weeks, they're cruising

11:32

around together and nothing happened. Yeah,

11:36

so the mouseys are walking together and

11:38

squeaking together and sharing all that blood

11:40

for 12 weeks. And

11:42

then Jim's team will give them an anesthetic.

11:45

And then we detach them. And

11:47

then we let them live the rest of their

11:49

days. And it's here where

11:52

Jim and his team will really start

11:54

to take a close look at these mice to

11:57

find out, did all of this work? of

12:00

the old mice healthier. And

12:03

he said that he noticed this difference right

12:05

away in the older mice. Because

12:07

compared to other old mice who

12:09

went through this hectic surgery but

12:11

didn't get the young blood. They

12:14

got up from anesthesia quicker. That,

12:16

like from the anesthesia of the

12:19

surgery? Yes, so once we

12:21

detach them, a couple

12:23

times, these mice just had a little bit more

12:25

of a pep in their step. That was the

12:27

first, huh, moment.

12:30

Uh-huh. Hmm.

12:34

He lets the mice recover. And

12:36

then Jim's team starts running some tests on

12:38

them to find out stuff like, how

12:41

fit are they? How strong are

12:43

they? So that's like exercise tests

12:45

and grip strength. How do you

12:47

measure a mouse's grip strength? Yes,

12:50

so it's a little bar and

12:53

then the mouse grabs it and you just

12:55

gently pull the mouse tail

12:57

until they release it. So they

12:59

tug and you can measure. Oh

13:02

my God, you pulled the mouse tail.

13:05

Just very slightly and you can measure how

13:07

much they pull and then finally, you know,

13:10

measure what they're resisting against you. Jim

13:15

also puts the mice into a little body

13:17

comp machine. It's like those machines that you

13:20

get at a fancy gym where it'll tell

13:22

you how much fat and muscle you have.

13:25

And what Jim found is that the old mice

13:27

that were getting all of that young blood, they

13:30

had more muscle and they were

13:32

leaner than other old mice that didn't

13:34

get the young blood. Jim

13:36

could even see a benefit here when

13:38

he watched these old mice running around a

13:41

cage and track their movements. They

13:43

were running like blaps literally

13:45

around their older cohorts

13:47

there. Wow. They

13:49

ran better, they were stronger and

13:52

they maintained this whereas the old mice

13:54

just kind of took a dive. And then did they

13:56

live longer with all these benefits?

13:59

They did. Yeah, they lived.

14:02

I. Think we got the nine or ten percent.

14:04

Extension and longevity on she

14:06

saw. The my

14:09

sleeved that him percent longer than

14:11

other old mice which team says

14:13

feels like this through think of

14:16

science. You. Know. We.

14:18

Can extend last. Weekend.

14:20

Do It. For. Years Jesus

14:22

assume father time was was

14:25

ill. A one way street. But.

14:28

We. Can manipulate that a little bit. I

14:30

think we're a little shocked to see how

14:32

much we can. Were able to

14:34

slow the cocktail. And other

14:36

studies doing this kind of surgery in

14:38

my as have found that young blood

14:40

can help rejuvenate lives is and even

14:43

brain stem cells. So. We

14:45

really wanted to know. How the hell

14:47

does this work? Like? what is it in. Young

14:49

blood that's doing this. So.

14:52

That's the magic question. Is

14:55

a few ideas. Running around the case

14:57

might sneeze could be about the

15:00

immune cells that a swimming around

15:02

in young blood. That's the beauty

15:04

of the youthful immune system is

15:06

a really it doesn't get the

15:08

credit it deserves. For the most

15:10

part of. Our. Young immune

15:12

cells cruise around a pic sauce

15:14

with a costs and s and

15:16

cells. Senescence out of basically cells

15:18

that have gone a little gentle with

15:20

can happen more and more as the

15:23

Aids and when you got more junkie

15:25

south it can lead to stuff like

15:27

inflammation and even tests said civically when

15:29

he came to sell sell lobs. The

15:32

young immune system kills him. Gone girl.

15:34

Says other stuff and youngblood that could be

15:37

making a difference here as well. like it's

15:39

an have higher levels of certain hormones which

15:41

have been found. To help muscles and

15:43

neurons gripe. So. That is

15:45

idea number one that there is something

15:48

magical and them blood. But

15:50

it could also be that they

15:52

something crappy in the blood of

15:54

old mice that with kind of

15:56

getting diluted ass and suicide some

15:58

evidence of this. Because the

16:01

young guys that were getting all of

16:03

that. Old. Blood they accelerate

16:05

ages our as the young

16:08

lad. Yes, the power of

16:10

youth. So. What does all

16:12

this means? That human psyche is

16:14

you had some. Some young

16:17

blood? Maybe some some very

16:19

king students? perhaps? Would you

16:21

be year interested? In In take

16:23

it's over. Their blood. Assistance of course

16:26

this the follow up questions

16:28

I don't think you know

16:30

even a monthly transfusions that

16:32

services of we transfuse blood

16:34

like every month or so.

16:36

I don't know if that's

16:38

enough. Gyms as remember these

16:40

my silicon joined city equivalent of

16:43

a human he is. A

16:45

searing all that blood disease. not

16:47

sure that had couple of pints

16:50

from a monthly transfusion would. What

16:52

the same magic. Much.

16:54

Sooner. This. Studies. In

16:56

people are just starting to trickle and

16:58

like one that we found that almost

17:00

twenty folks with Alzheimer's and as them

17:02

the plasma of young man once a

17:04

week for a month or what it's

17:06

doing this test to see if this

17:08

kind. Of thing with sense to do and it

17:11

was. A they found something

17:13

surprising. Some. Patients seem to

17:15

be doing a little better things like

17:17

speeding themselves over member and to take

17:20

their medicine. Which. Is. Curious.

17:23

Hang. Think. That is

17:25

gonna keep studying this. That

17:27

the now I'm. Jim. Isn't

17:29

gonna be putting his arm out. For

17:31

a transfusion of that's sweet

17:34

sweet Kinsey blood. Know

17:36

maybe they'll all be laughing when they're a

17:38

hundred and fifty years old. As everyone, they

17:40

didn't say it. Good for them

17:42

said. I don't know if he knows

17:44

I I think the despot. Okay,

17:50

so what else have we gone? After

17:52

the break could the key to lump jeopardy?

17:55

Pm simple as popping up. Tell some

17:57

say the secret to a long and

17:59

healthy life. is sitting in

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your pharmacy right now. Should

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you take it? Coming up. We're

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burning light on the phone. Do

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we take anything? I

18:24

don't really know. Maybe something

18:26

we should look into on the show. Maybe.

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But if you use Squarespace, you don't need to know

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how they work. You just do

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This episode is brought to you by State Store. You've

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20:03

back to today on the show, The Quest

20:05

for Modernity, or just, you

20:07

know, to live a long and healthy life. Now,

20:10

if you look at basically any health

20:12

fluency list of the stuff that they're

20:14

taking to live a long and healthy

20:17

life, there's this particular group of supplements

20:19

that comes up over and over again.

20:21

The internet is going nuts for them.

20:23

It's all over socials with some calling

20:25

them a miracle cure for aging. And

20:29

they call NAD boosters.

20:32

I shouldn't say NAD right, NAD is

20:34

how... Yeah, I call it

20:37

NAD. Some people say NAD, yeah, but yeah, let

20:39

me say NAD. Nads is something else, right? I

20:41

think so. Yeah. Okay,

20:45

so I just orchestrated a joke so

20:47

that we could make fun of balls. That's

20:50

what I did there. That's all it was. And

20:53

Melanie McGraddles at Penn State University was

20:55

polite enough to laugh at my joke.

20:58

Thank you. And

21:00

after we talked about balls, she

21:02

went on to say that there

21:04

are feisty debates about these NAD

21:06

supplements, with some scientists saying that

21:08

they are dangerous and others saying

21:10

that they are a game changer.

21:13

One person is ringing the alarm and

21:15

the other person is saying, I take

21:17

this daily. And

21:20

yeah, you see influencers, you

21:23

see scientists, even

21:25

various people on reality TV. People

21:27

are talking about taking these supplements,

21:29

so it's everywhere. So

21:33

what are NAD boosters and

21:36

do they work? Wow. To

21:38

know what a NAD booster is, first, we've

21:41

got to know what the double NAD is. It

21:44

stands for neukotinamide adenine dinucleotide.

21:46

And it's this coenzyme that's

21:49

found in our bodies and

21:51

is super, super important. So

21:53

you have NAD in every single cell.

21:56

So it lives everywhere in every

21:58

single tissue. Basically, it's for... food

22:00

that fuels hundreds of reactions throughout

22:02

your body including reactions involved in

22:05

repairing your DNA. So

22:07

say if you're out in the sun for a

22:09

long time, you may get UV damage. Your

22:11

DNA is squealing. Oh no! I'm

22:14

hit! I'm damaged! So

22:16

enzymes come to the rescue to fix you up. And

22:19

those enzymes, they are going to consume

22:21

NAD. Oh so NAD is

22:23

like the food for the enzymes that

22:25

we need to repair? Yes.

22:28

Exactly. It's just one thing

22:30

that it's... One of

22:32

them, yeah. And it's so many others. NAD

22:35

fuels our energy production, helps control

22:37

our responses to stress and inflammation.

22:40

I mean, you name it, NAD is

22:42

right there. So when I

22:44

think about NAD, NAD is playing a vital

22:46

role in every aspect

22:49

of biology and chemistry within our

22:51

bodies. Is it like

22:54

having like Usher at Super Bowl? Is

22:56

that... Where

22:58

is the essential? For

23:00

my enjoyment of Super Bowl. But

23:08

unlike Usher, NAD is

23:10

affected by aging. This

23:12

is how it got wrapped up into this

23:14

whole anti-aging world in the first place. Because

23:17

the thing is, as we get older, there's

23:19

more stuff for NAD to do. We

23:21

have more inflammation, more DNA damage.

23:24

And since NAD is the fuel that

23:26

feeds all of these reactions, we

23:29

start running out of it. So

23:31

as we age, we have less NAD

23:33

hanging around. It's not

23:36

as drastic as infomercials

23:39

or salespeople make it

23:41

seem. Like, Ah, Usher, when you're 65,

23:43

you lost 50% of your NAD. It's

23:47

not that bad. You know, it's

23:49

not that drastic. But is there

23:52

a steady, slow decline that probably

23:54

averages around 30%? Absolutely.

23:58

And we think this is a problem. In

24:00

my studies, lower levels of NAD have

24:03

been linked to a lot of yucky

24:05

stuff that happens as we age. Things

24:07

like cancer, diabetes, cognitive decline, muscle loss,

24:10

and hearing loss. Which

24:12

is why some people are saying, hey, if

24:15

dropping NAD levels are linked to

24:17

all of this nasty stuff, then

24:19

surely we can fix some of

24:21

them by bumping up your NAD

24:23

levels. And that

24:25

is what the supplements, the NAD

24:28

boosters, are supposed to do. Now

24:31

you can't just eat NAD straight. It doesn't

24:33

work like that. Instead,

24:35

the stuff that you can buy is

24:37

supplements, or what are called pre-cursors.

24:40

So your body takes them and then turns

24:42

them into NAD. And I know

24:45

this is going to sound like as alphabet soup here,

24:47

but the two most common supplements like this

24:50

on the market are known

24:52

as NR and NMN.

24:55

Now, a lot of the studies that

24:57

test whether they work in people,

24:59

so they'll give people these supplements and

25:02

then see what happens, are actually funded

25:04

by the supplement industry in one way

25:06

or another. And

25:08

even then, overall, a lot

25:11

of the results from these studies have been

25:13

pretty mad. Like

25:15

just zooming in on NMN for a

25:17

second, researchers looked into

25:20

whether taking it affects muscle mass

25:22

or blood pressure or cholesterol or

25:24

glucose or insulin. And

25:27

they found that it doesn't help. With

25:30

NR, which stands for nicotinamide

25:32

riboside, the research has

25:34

been a little more promising. Like

25:36

several studies have found that they

25:38

might lower inflammation and blood pressure.

25:42

I can say there are

25:44

seven published human studies showing

25:46

anti-inflammatory effects of nicotinamide riboside.

25:49

So the idea of taking these

25:51

supplements doesn't sound stupid to me, right?

25:53

Yeah, I mean, that's the reason why

25:55

so many people are doing it. Now

25:57

I feel a butt coming on. But

26:00

yeah. Should

26:03

I go out and buy some? The

26:08

reason that Melanie is giving us the old

26:12

is because she's not sure that these

26:15

supplements are safe. They haven't been tested

26:17

on that many people or for that

26:19

long. And some early

26:21

research in mice are showing that

26:24

perhaps when we take these NAD

26:26

boosting supplements, maybe

26:28

we're not just going to boost our

26:30

NAD, but we might also be

26:33

bumping up some other stuff that's perhaps not

26:35

so good for us. So

26:37

for example, Melanie's been worrying about this

26:39

particular enzyme that can get cranked out

26:42

when mice take these boosters. And

26:44

this enzyme can drive changes to our

26:47

genetics and it maybe could increase

26:49

our risk of cancer. And

26:51

you know, there is this one study that took

26:54

mice at an increased risk for pancreatic

26:56

cancer. It gave them an

26:58

NAD booster and it found that yes, it

27:01

upped their risk for getting cancer. It's

27:04

early days here and there's just a lot

27:06

we don't know about the benefits or the

27:09

risks. So I asked Melanie, given

27:11

all these unknowns, what do you tell like

27:14

older people in your life who are like,

27:16

I want to be healthy for the longest

27:18

period of time. Like should I take these

27:21

precursors now or not? Yeah, I've

27:23

always been hesitant. You think it's too

27:25

soon? It's too soon for me. Exactly. That

27:28

is it. It's too soon for me. But

27:30

a lot of the NAD researchers I

27:32

would say are just running away and

27:34

selling it. This is an unregulated market

27:36

and people are running away with it.

27:40

I hope they don't cancel me for this. So

27:45

if you're slamming down the NAD boosters

27:47

as your holy grail, maybe

27:50

you chose poorly. But

27:53

on the shelf of cups to choose from. And

27:56

I'm sorry if you haven't watched Indiana Jones in

27:58

a while because this analogy... It's

28:00

going to get, you're going to get lost a little. But

28:03

on that shelf of cups to choose

28:05

from, there is a drug that's

28:08

been getting a lot of attention and

28:10

it looks very tantalizing. It's

28:12

attracting headlines like, quote, anti-aging

28:15

pills are real and some of

28:17

us are taking them without knowing

28:19

it. And if you

28:21

want to know more about this, there

28:23

is one guy that everyone is talking

28:25

to. Nia Bizela, a

28:27

professor at Albert Einstein College of

28:30

Medicine in New York. And he's

28:32

been thinking about this longevity stuff for a

28:34

long time. Even before

28:36

I became a medical student, you know,

28:38

when I looked at my grandfather, I

28:40

said, what, you know,

28:43

what's going on? How

28:45

come he, when he was young, he had

28:48

all those stories of bravery and achievement and

28:50

he barely can walk now? And

28:52

so Nia wanted to know, how can

28:54

we stop this from happening? Which

28:56

took him to this drug that so many

28:59

people are excited about. It's

29:01

called metformin. It

29:03

comes from this gorgeous purple flower called

29:06

the French lilac. And people

29:08

have actually been using it for ages, saying

29:10

it can work for all kinds of things.

29:13

Metformin was used by mothers,

29:15

grandmothers, healers to

29:17

treat osteoarthritis, to prevent flu,

29:19

lots of stuff. But

29:23

today, metformin is prescribed for type

29:25

2 diabetes because it helps control

29:27

blood glucose levels. And it

29:29

is a blockbuster drug. Over

29:31

150 million people around the world

29:33

take it. But

29:36

more recently, scientists like Nia have

29:39

started thinking that maybe this drug

29:41

could do a whole lot more.

29:44

Perhaps it could boost our longevity.

29:47

And one paper in particular kind

29:49

of jump started this. pharmacies

30:01

in the UK. They got around 180,000 people.

30:05

And the researchers said, Let's look

30:07

at the people who had diabetes. Some

30:09

of them were treated with

30:11

metformin and others were treated

30:14

with another drug. They followed

30:16

people for several years and found that those

30:18

who were taking metformin were less likely to

30:20

die by the end of the trial compared

30:23

to those who were taking a different diabetes

30:25

drug. And it was by around

30:27

a third, which is quite a lot.

30:30

And since then, other research has shown

30:33

similar things. That metformin helps

30:35

people with diabetes to live

30:37

longer. And Nia says

30:39

it's not only that. People on metformin

30:41

who have diabetes have less cardiovascular disease.

30:43

They have less cancers. They have less

30:46

cognitive decline, Alzheimer's. Early

30:49

research in mice has also found that metformin

30:51

can help with a bunch of other stuff

30:53

that's linked to aging, including

30:56

reducing inflammation and boosting antioxidants, which

30:58

could improve the health of our

31:00

blood vessels. And Nia's

31:03

like, well, if this drug is so

31:05

great, at least for people with diabetes,

31:07

what about the rest of us? All of a

31:10

sudden we said, you know what? Non-diabetics

31:12

could do better on metformin.

31:15

And there is a little bit of evidence for this.

31:18

So like in that big UK study, you

31:20

know, the one that shocked Nia, well,

31:23

there sounds something pretty odd in it. And

31:25

it's this. People who

31:28

have diabetes but were taking metformin

31:31

actually lived slightly longer than those

31:33

who did not have diabetes, what

31:35

we tend to think of as

31:37

the healthy controls. Now,

31:39

it wasn't by a lot, but it was

31:41

enough for Nia to take notice. And

31:43

that was kind of really

31:46

cool. I mean, diabetes decreased

31:48

lifespan, OK? So

31:50

we are expecting them to do worse. But

31:52

they are metformin, and yet they do better.

31:55

And it's studies like this that are

31:57

really driving these exciting headlines that are

31:59

saying... that metformin is the new

32:02

anti-aging pill of our lifetime.

32:05

But the thing is, there's been some

32:07

newer research that's gotten a lot less

32:09

buzz. And if we

32:11

were writing the headlines for these newer studies,

32:13

it would be, metformin

32:16

doesn't make you live longer. Like,

32:19

these scientists out of Denmark, they tried

32:21

to replicate that big UK study and

32:24

they actually found the opposite thing. People

32:27

taking metformin for diabetes didn't live

32:29

longer than healthy controls. This

32:32

is exactly what you'd expect. Another

32:34

huge study out of the UK

32:36

compared people taking metformin for diabetes

32:38

to another group without diabetes and

32:41

found that while in the first three years

32:43

the metformin group seemed to be living longer,

32:46

after five years the trend

32:48

reversed. Zania.

32:51

He told us that he doesn't think these papers

32:54

that nail in the coffin for

32:56

metformin and he's not losing

32:58

hope. It's not about hope, it's

33:01

about evidence. Nia says

33:03

that what we really need now is

33:05

a randomized control trial in older

33:07

people who don't have diabetes and

33:10

that study is exactly what he's planning to

33:12

do. And this would really help

33:14

us to know if metformin actually

33:16

does anything for aging if you

33:18

don't have diabetes. In

33:21

the meantime though, what metformin has

33:23

going for it, unlike spades

33:25

and AD boosters, is that

33:27

metformin is an FDA approved drop

33:30

and we know that it's pretty safe. Yeah,

33:33

there are some side effects to look out

33:35

for like nausea plus

33:37

the recent study in men found that

33:40

maybe it was linked to birth defects

33:42

in their kids, we're not really sure, but if

33:45

you're not trying to father a child anytime

33:47

soon, it seems pretty

33:49

low risk. And

33:52

Nia? He actually takes it. I do,

33:55

I do. I started this for

33:57

pre-diabetes which I'm not. anymore

34:00

for 10 years, but it has measurable

34:02

effects on my health. Makes

34:04

me feel so young. It

34:07

makes me feel so young. Okay.

34:11

The end of the episode is nigh.

34:14

And here's where we're at. We're still

34:16

waiting for the final word on metformin. This

34:18

drug, it still could be exciting, but

34:21

we're going to have to wait and see. As

34:23

for NAD boosters, we're going to give them

34:25

a miss. So is

34:28

there anything else that we've got? That's

34:31

what I asked Jim, you know, that

34:33

researcher that throws the mice together. When

34:36

people ask that they have like their pen out, like you

34:39

must, you must know something from your studies.

34:41

Like, you know, what do you take? What

34:43

supplements you must take all of them. No,

34:45

I don't. So what do you do? What

34:47

do you tell people? Yeah. This is the

34:50

part where everyone, yeah, everybody kind of, this

34:52

is like the womp womp, uh,

34:55

every response. Right. I tell

34:57

people it's like exercise, diet.

35:00

They're like, Oh, we've been hearing that all the

35:02

time. Who wants to do that? Boo.

35:07

Yes. You've heard about these things,

35:09

but we'll say them again. Stuff

35:11

like a healthy diet where you're eating

35:13

fresh fruit and veggies and whole grain

35:15

and olive oil and fish and nuts

35:18

that has been linked to living longer

35:20

with exercise. While there is actually some

35:22

debate about whether it can make you

35:24

live longer. We have good research to

35:27

show that it can make you healthier

35:29

for the years that you've worked. And

35:32

there's a few other things that can help you

35:34

win the longevity lottery. So studies have

35:36

found that being less stressed may save

35:38

you from dying from heart disease. I

35:40

hate this word too. I get stressed

35:42

all the time, but stress

35:45

management, I guess we should give it a go.

35:48

Something that's more fun to give a

35:50

go is being more social. Seeing mates,

35:52

trying to avoid loneliness. That's been linked

35:54

to longevity and one

35:56

of the most surprising longevity boosters that we

35:59

came across. It is hearing aids.

36:02

Yeah, a study published this year

36:04

found that people with hearing loss

36:06

who regularly used hearing aids were

36:08

24% less likely to die compared

36:10

to similar people who didn't use

36:12

them. We're not exactly sure why

36:14

that is. And finally,

36:16

don't smoke. One huge study

36:19

estimated that if you can quit before you're

36:21

35, it can add around seven years to

36:23

your life, which is more years than you'd

36:25

get from having a young mouth sewn to

36:28

your belly. So

36:31

there you have it. Diet,

36:34

exercise, stress

36:37

management. But

36:39

wait, what if we said it in a more excited way?

36:42

Exercise, diet, stress

36:44

management. Yay! Thank

36:52

you. Hello.

37:02

Hey, Michelle Dang, producer at Science Basses.

37:05

Hey Wendy. So how many citations

37:07

are in this week's episode? There are 84 citations.

37:10

84. And if

37:12

people want to see them in

37:15

all of their glory, I

37:17

just like really feel in this episode all those 84 citations.

37:22

Where should they go to find them? Head over

37:24

to the show notes and click on our transcript and

37:26

you can see all 84 citations. Oh,

37:28

and for people who are very interested

37:30

in living for a long time,

37:32

there is one more big thing

37:35

that we didn't cover in this episode that

37:37

people say can increase your

37:40

longevity. Oh, which

37:42

one? And that is fasting.

37:45

And so we have actually dedicated an

37:47

entire episode to fasting. We covered it

37:49

several years ago. We've updated the science

37:51

and it's going to come out in

37:53

just a couple of weeks, our episode

37:55

on intermittent fasting. But

37:57

for now, it's time to go to bed. Thanks

38:00

Michelle. Thanks my niece. Bye.

38:10

This episode was produced by Michelle Heng and

38:12

me, Wendy Zuckerman, when helped from Meryl Horne,

38:14

Rose Rimmler and Joel Lerner. We're

38:17

edited by Blad Terrell, research help from

38:19

Timmy Broderick, back checking by Eva Jaffe,

38:21

mixed and sound designed by Bobby Lord,

38:23

music written by Boomi Hidaka, Emma Munger,

38:26

Peter Leonard, Sue Wiley and Bobby Lord.

38:28

A special thanks to all of the

38:31

researchers that we spoke to for this

38:33

episode, including Dr. Janet Choi, Dr. Gideon

38:35

Meyerwitz-Kauf and Dr. Joo Lee. A

38:38

special thanks to the Zuckerman family and Professor

38:40

Flaval Wilson. I'm Wendy Zuckerman, and I'll

38:42

talk to you next time. One

38:51

last thing before we go. Vox is running

38:53

a podcast survey to try and learn more

38:55

about our listeners. So if

38:58

you have a few minutes, we'd

39:00

really appreciate it if you could

39:02

go to vox.com/podcast survey and answer

39:04

a few questions so we can

39:06

continue bringing you the shows you

39:08

love to hear. That's vox.com/podcast survey.

39:11

And the link is also in the show notes. It

39:13

really helps us out. Thanks.