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By for terminal co. Two

0:46

years ago on Christmas I was

0:48

pretty pumped up and much as

0:50

because as the day off work

0:53

humans we're launching this giant new

0:55

gizmo into space. And

0:58

what to do? This is the

1:00

future. Nasa's James Webb Space Telescope.

1:03

The James Webb Space Telescope which

1:05

is a mouthful, so sometimes it's

1:07

just called J W as T.

1:10

This thing is the latest, greatest

1:12

Space Telescope. better in many ways

1:14

than it's predecessor. The Hubble

1:16

it compare deeper into the

1:18

cosmos than any previous orbiting

1:21

observatory. It could just do

1:23

so much stuff like investigate

1:25

planets orbiting other sons. Take

1:27

a look at this a giant red

1:29

planet outside of our solar system. It

1:32

could to observe the birth and

1:34

demise of stars. What we're seeing

1:36

here is essentially a stellar nursery.

1:38

But the thing that I think it's the coolest

1:40

about it is that. We're going right up

1:43

to the edge of the observable universe. That's

1:46

astronomer Caitlin Casey. She actually get

1:48

to use the Webb telescope and

1:50

I talk to her before it

1:52

launched. We. Chatted about how.

1:54

Things very far away and space.

1:57

In. A telescope are actually also

1:59

very. All because the light has

2:01

taken a long time to reach us,

2:03

and with the James Webb Space Telescope,

2:05

some of that light is almost as

2:08

old as the universe itself. Were.

2:10

Trying to see. Which

2:12

Galaxies turned on first? This

2:14

is a couple years ago

2:16

and. I. Just wanted to

2:19

get an update from Caitlin. Has

2:21

J W S De. Aza

2:23

lived up to the hype and. To

2:26

put assembly kill him and her colleagues. They're.

2:29

Just. Started. I

2:31

use everything at that I can

2:33

squirrel away from my family of

2:36

from. City in my classes at the

2:38

university I use. Every second of every

2:40

day it's a just look. At these

2:42

images and dig deeper. Is J

2:44

W S de giving him the

2:46

way as really some Sips families

2:49

have destroyed or I have three

2:51

kids under dictatorship of my life

2:53

that you know mandatory I have

2:55

a lot of balance of personally

2:57

I've got after the kids go

2:59

to bed. that's when the data

3:02

pops up. Where work.

3:04

And again, as it's. So. Fast

3:06

Navy and. I

3:08

really wanted to know what is

3:10

she looking at on her laptop

3:13

as keeping her up at night?

3:15

Wild things in the early universe.

3:17

As early as time the universe

3:19

was having a party and we

3:21

had no idea it was happening.

3:23

Caitlin says that before the web

3:25

she thought they're just wouldn't be

3:27

a ton to see. So far

3:29

back in time we thought we

3:31

would maybe see a couple of

3:34

more. Distant galaxies. but they would. Be

3:36

very very rare. Instead were

3:38

seeing something unexpected in. this

3:40

is what's amazing to me.

3:43

This telescope turned on and

3:45

now we have one of

3:47

the new biggest questions and

3:49

science is sending researchers into

3:51

a frenzy to try to

3:54

explain what the hell is

3:56

going on, the party that

3:58

is happening and. The early

4:00

universe is really shocking to

4:03

astronomers, so that is today.

4:05

So what has the James

4:08

Webb Space Telescope discover that

4:10

is so suck? The

4:17

love to go out. Each.

4:24

Are we have. What

4:28

is the party? What is what is like?

4:30

The most surprising thing that Web has shown

4:33

us. Yeah. As so see,

4:35

the Vs T has been. Mind.

4:38

Boggling because. We have

4:40

sounds. Really? him?

4:42

That's her bards. Bright

4:45

galaxies back even further

4:47

than we. Expected.

4:49

There are extraordinarily.

4:52

Massive Much her. Galaxies.

4:56

At this time that we just. We had

4:58

no clue it's really bass. Lamps and

5:00

it's is. Looking at a

5:02

time and the universes has streets. Were

5:05

were really starting to. But.

5:07

Up against. The the age

5:09

of the Universe itself. It's it's.

5:12

You. Know how do you form Rome

5:15

in a day? Like

5:17

you can't form roman a day, right?

5:19

As of it, There's too much to

5:21

do. And. These

5:25

galaxies are. Rome.

5:27

And they have formed and the

5:29

day our dates they are is

5:32

unusual in almost every way. and

5:34

they've had very, very little time

5:36

to assemble. Wow, you know another

5:38

another. Helpful analogy that I

5:41

really like if you think

5:43

about generations of people and

5:46

their families and how that

5:48

progressive it's as is your

5:50

grandparents. Were only like forty five years

5:53

older than you, and your parents are

5:55

only a year or two older than

5:57

than the Iowa services. As weird as

5:59

learning year. Grandfather grew to be an

6:01

adult and four days and then started

6:03

his own. Fans are some or for

6:05

your sort of yeah. Yeah, that

6:08

makes no yeah and thrive as

6:10

as so. That's what's happening to

6:12

stars and these distant galaxies. What

6:15

are they look like in the images

6:18

you see. They look

6:20

like st smudges. I

6:22

thought i guess they

6:24

are just. Unassuming

6:27

dots of light ah that

6:29

looks like almost every. Other

6:32

Unassuming in our.of light. if you

6:34

can infer from these smudgy little

6:36

blips of blade that they are

6:38

actually huge and mature and very

6:41

bright. And and bigger than you'd

6:43

expect for the time period. Yeah,

6:45

so instead. Of. Just taking a single

6:48

picture of a galaxy were able

6:50

to understand how much energy comes

6:52

out and all sorts of different

6:54

types of. Light. We say a

6:56

picture is worth a thousand words.

6:59

That's absolutely true, but you know

7:01

a spectrum is worth a thousand.

7:04

Texas Snopes? It's It's just so

7:06

much information. It's like

7:08

a finger prints for for

7:10

all of these different galaxies

7:12

And these dots are little

7:14

smudges on the sky. Barely

7:17

visible and you know if you decide

7:19

that image you can guess that it's

7:21

a distant galaxy. But you don't know

7:23

much about a you don't l. How

7:25

massive it is. You don't know what

7:27

it's made out as. yeah, but these

7:30

are things that. We. Can

7:32

tell by reading the the

7:34

fingerprint, the chemical signature of

7:36

these galaxies from their specs

7:39

and so.spin Astounding. Okay,

7:41

So there are early big

7:43

galaxies in the universe. So

7:45

so what? Yeah, so what

7:48

is right? I mean it's it

7:50

is a good question. And it

7:52

turns out that if you really

7:55

dig into the details of that

7:57

question, it's a challenge for not

7:59

just astronomers, but the best to

8:02

come up with a way where

8:04

you can form something so big

8:06

so quickly in. The. Short period of time

8:08

after the Big Bang. So. Are

8:11

you basically telling me these early

8:13

galaxies? We have no idea how

8:15

they formed. Well, I think

8:17

we. I think we have an

8:19

idea of how most delicacies. Four

8:21

months later, On in the universe

8:24

is history. Say build stars

8:26

from das like hydrogen gas

8:28

that's in space right? and

8:30

over time they're building more

8:32

more stars in those bill.

8:34

That but when you

8:36

push it to the limits

8:39

and find. A

8:41

lot of stars very early on

8:43

in the universe as history. then

8:45

you have to come up with

8:48

some other explanation and and some

8:50

folks want to throw out our

8:52

cosmological model completely and the of

8:54

that is it out that would

8:57

change everything we think we understand

8:59

about the universe mile but. You

9:01

know not not everyone is is is

9:03

is digging man. Of as. I

9:06

do. I do when I get to

9:08

like what are the possibilities your book

9:11

before I feel like it's good to

9:13

ask. Are we really confident that these

9:15

galaxies are as old as brave and

9:17

as weird as you're saying. Another

9:19

great classes and boy have

9:21

there been debates about that

9:23

at conferences. Tomatoes.

9:27

Have been thrown laments. Literal

9:30

tomatoes are metaphor one

9:32

a metaphorical of got

9:34

were and white civilized

9:37

purposes. Is

9:40

what Webb Telescope has discovered.

9:43

Aren't big bright galaxies? what

9:45

are the. That's

9:48

a. Fox.

9:54

Create. Microsoft

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Three Six by personal

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or subscription. So.

11:20

I've been talking to astronomer Killing

11:22

T. C. about whether these weirdly

11:24

large mature galaxies spotted by the

11:26

web telescopes are really what we

11:28

think they are. Yeah.

11:30

It's It's a huge point of

11:32

debate whether or not these are

11:35

actually as massive as we Thanks,

11:37

But the alternate explanations and get

11:39

this. Is also really confusing

11:41

and. If they are

11:43

as massive and bright and

11:46

big as we thank, then

11:48

maybe we're looking at some

11:50

of the most massive. Supermassive

11:53

black holes. But. The.

11:55

Reason that is disturbing as because just

11:57

like we don't know, How to farm? Ours

12:00

really crummy. We have really. No

12:02

clue how to form. Black.

12:05

Holes that are so massive? so

12:07

you're You're saying the the telescope

12:09

has picked up that he's a

12:11

really bright. The really big we're

12:13

assuming they're galaxies, but also a

12:15

black hole could be bright and

12:17

big. Yeah so they are gallons

12:20

is for sure. but there is

12:22

a situation where at the light

12:24

might not be coming from. Stars

12:27

and the Alternate.

12:30

Option is that light is

12:32

coming from a very, very

12:35

hot disk of material that

12:37

is been sucked into a

12:40

giant black hole. and that

12:42

disk of material is so

12:45

high that it's science. Really

12:47

brightly a ten even in

12:49

some situations outside the Galaxy

12:52

and which had live. Before

12:55

yesterday? like some people are saying, You.

12:57

Know maybe we need a throughout our

12:59

cosmological models as curious what? what? like

13:02

one, what is because her skull model

13:04

and to like? What is this? Why

13:06

does this even implicate something that sounds

13:08

so big like that? Yeah, it actually

13:10

means the theory of everything. Assists

13:12

it tells us. The.

13:15

Physics of the entire universe. It

13:18

is the staff, all the. In on

13:20

which we. Build. Our understand the

13:22

and see you know. And if

13:24

we have to take that scaffolding down

13:26

and rebuild it, then we we really

13:28

have no. Clue. You.

13:31

Know what reality is? So.

13:33

When you say like some people even

13:35

thinking about rewriting the cosmological model, what's

13:37

like a small piece of that agree

13:40

thinking of like how gravity works are

13:42

rethinking how you know some of the

13:44

like. Something like that. We're not

13:46

necessarily. I think. I think. In our

13:49

most, astronomers are pretty cool with

13:51

gravity. Is

13:54

a throw gravity out and us and Russia and.

13:56

But for example, something we

13:58

don't understand starts and. Gee,

14:00

maybe. We. Don't.

14:03

Understand it at another level

14:06

and it could have been

14:08

doing something different than. What

14:10

we things at really early times? So

14:13

for example, if you inject

14:15

a little more energy into

14:17

dark energy in. Ah,

14:19

at the short period of time after the Big

14:21

Bang. Then. You could. Maybe. Get.

14:24

Out what we're seeing. What? Cbs

14:26

you? Have you heard

14:28

any compelling stories of how how

14:31

the stars farm so quickly? How

14:33

these. You. Know like do.

14:35

What are some good guesses? Her. One

14:38

explanation once it's kind of cool

14:40

is is using about. The early

14:42

universe is of really dark

14:44

place compared to where you

14:46

know where we live now.

14:48

There are all sorts of

14:50

galaxies with lots of star

14:53

lights flooding out into space

14:55

and silly in the cosmos.

14:57

and that light actually impacts

14:59

how stars formed out of

15:01

new gas clouds. And makes

15:03

it harder sometimes to form

15:05

stars and so. In

15:08

the early universe, those floodlights

15:10

are not on him and

15:12

so you could form stars

15:14

really really quickly. In a

15:17

way of that can't happen

15:19

today because right now the

15:21

flood lights are on his

15:23

as interesting that ideas that

15:25

starlight itself impedes the. Development.

15:28

Of other stars? Yeah, yeah,

15:30

Sounds like these explanations you're

15:32

just telling me maybe sit

15:34

within our cosmological model in

15:36

this Vienna without throwing about

15:38

Yeah, Yeah, exactly. And you know, as

15:40

scientists, that's. What we aim to do

15:42

first to eat out or cosmological model

15:44

does a pretty good job. It explains

15:47

a lot about the universe. And.

15:50

Any time you saying that. Everything.

15:53

Is a. Failed at and so you

15:56

kind of don't wanna throw

15:58

out the prevailing theory until you

16:00

absolutely now that it's wrong. And

16:03

so yeah, we try to

16:05

come up with explanations. Within

16:07

that. Scaffold. The and. What's.

16:10

Next, how do we had a we

16:12

figure. Figure. Out as mystery,

16:14

what happens? We. Are digging

16:16

deep and to these data I

16:18

mean the I can tell you

16:20

again like we have just scratched

16:22

the surface there is so much

16:24

more and a barn were. Still,

16:27

Digging through. These

16:31

remarkably bards. deep field.

16:33

Images that we have. We

16:36

wanna take spectra again to

16:38

get the chemical signatures of

16:40

these galaxies. Those spectra also

16:43

tell us. That. There

16:45

a supermassive black holes in. These galaxies.

16:47

We want to precisely measure

16:49

how com and they are

16:52

at different times after the

16:54

Big Bang and. In

16:56

the assembly of all of this

16:58

research. I think we'll start

17:01

to emerge with of a

17:03

new picture of. The.

17:06

Incense Universe does first couple hundred

17:08

million years in totally you know,

17:10

the next year to i'm Not

17:13

gonna don't quote me on that.

17:15

Do. You ever wonder. Embarrassed

17:19

asking this question almost a year for

17:21

wonder if the universe has disappeared Mess

17:23

with us site. A

17:27

little I do. I mean you

17:29

know you look back on history

17:31

and late Man Pete have some

17:33

very very smart people have been.

17:35

Totally like flabbergasted

17:37

at. What the

17:40

universe and has revealed Like you

17:42

know that I'm signed lengthy Expanding

17:44

Universe. No way, you're not a

17:46

fan. Like what? That makes no

17:48

sense Does the acceleration of the

17:50

universe makes it. So

17:52

totally in some ways I'm just

17:55

like man, that's how cool that

17:57

the. Story of everything is is.

18:00

So. Profoundly. Different

18:02

than what we would expect. Overall.

18:05

Despise. Important to understand this

18:07

early universe and this. You.

18:10

Know the sick up in our

18:12

in our understanding. I will

18:14

always go. Back to

18:16

the explanation that you

18:18

know. When we

18:21

were book out on the Cosmos

18:23

it is us looking out on

18:25

what we are. I mean this

18:27

is the ultimate origin story is

18:30

where we came from. An

18:32

air. We can get

18:34

a better understanding of that then. I'd

18:37

I think it's really beautiful. the

18:40

crazy wild universe v to live

18:42

in that we can come to

18:44

understand that from with then is

18:47

a pretty profound thing to me.

18:52

Is a channel like us humans have been

18:55

kind of put inside the puzzle box. and

18:57

even if there's no prize in solving the

18:59

puzzle box, who knows, but the prizes for

19:01

solving the puzzle bucks fuzzy. I mean I

19:03

think up the awesome as high. Isn't

19:05

it is I give you solve the

19:08

puzzle box the you live then you

19:10

sounds you solve that you. Figure

19:12

it out. I mean, there could

19:14

be no better accomplice. Yeah, and

19:17

it's just a real privilege that.

19:20

Astronomers. Get to

19:22

do this for a listener a

19:25

that that we get to try

19:27

to solve the biggest puzzle their

19:29

era and I just love it.

19:31

And the puzzle is the puzzle

19:34

is what is this universe wisest?

19:36

Go bonkers. This

19:48

episode was produced by me brine

19:50

Redneck with help from Know I'm

19:52

Hassenfeld and Meredith Harder not who

19:54

also manages our team, adding from

19:56

Jorge Just Music, Some No Arms

19:58

and Mixing and design firm Christian

20:01

I our judging from Kelsey Land

20:03

and Mandy New M is searching

20:05

for new Formed The Light and

20:07

even though Bird Pinkerton had listened

20:09

to the Doctor Post explain how

20:11

she was the chosen one, she

20:13

didn't know what to do. So

20:15

the Doctor Post leaned over and

20:18

said. Most people

20:20

do Most fucked.

20:29

If you want a transcript for this

20:31

episode we've got a link in the

20:33

show notes and if you have thoughts

20:35

about this episode or ideas for the

20:37

show, please email us read: Unexplainable at

20:39

box.com We'd also love it if he

20:42

left us of are you are reading

20:44

this podcast and all Boxes three in

20:46

part because his guests from our readers

20:48

and listeners speaking got avast.com plus give

20:50

to give today as he do give

20:52

and if you're giving because of our

20:54

show, maybe that Voc know that you

20:56

enjoy unexplainable. Unexplainable as part

20:59

of Vox Media podcast network. Ross next

21:01

week for the holidays, but we'll be

21:03

back in your feed on the first

21:05

Wednesday morning of Twenty Twenty. Fox.

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