0:00

And this

0:00

has really come to the surface

0:02

since Covid started, more

0:02

and more people are starting

0:06

to realize how important

0:06

relational capital, relational

0:09

strength, collective relational

0:09

strength is on a team.

0:13

Because what we saw is that

0:13

teams who had a strong and

0:18

healthy relational fabric,

0:18

Before COVID started, they

0:21

held together teams that

0:21

didn't have that, they started

0:25

to disintegrate much faster. So relational capital is back

0:28

. And um, when you think about it,

0:33

building relational strength or

0:33

relational capital requires me

0:37

to un first of all understand

0:37

myself and understand you.

0:41

So, That's who I am as an

0:41

emotional human being, as a,

0:45

as a psychological human being. So personality, behavioral

0:47

style, but also as a, as

0:50

a cultural human being. Welcome to the Cultural

1:01

Agility Podcast, where

1:04

we explore the stories of

1:04

some of the most advanced

1:07

intercultural practitioners

1:07

from around the world to

1:10

help you become culturally

1:10

agile and succeed in today's

1:14

culturally complex world. I'm your host, Marco

1:16

Blankenberg, international

1:19

director of KnowledgeWorks,

1:19

where every day we help

1:22

individuals and companies

1:22

achieve relational success

1:25

in that same complex.

1:31

Hello everyone. Welcome to our

1:32

KnowledgeWorks podcast.

1:35

I'm here with my second

1:35

time with Marco Blankenberg.

1:39

So excited to be here with

1:39

him today to talk about the

1:43

concept of trust, what it is

1:43

and how it affects us, and.

1:48

. Really looking forward

1:48

to talking about it in an

1:51

intercultural conversation.

1:53

So welcome Marco. Thanks for being here.

1:55

Thank you so much. I'm very much looking

1:57

forward to, uh, this

1:59

important topic that we're

1:59

gonna be discussing today.

2:02

Mm-hmm. Me too. Me too.

2:04

So let's just jump right in.

2:07

What I'd love. To first talk about is what

2:08

is trust and am I correct

2:14

in thinking that that's not

2:14

an easy question to answer?

2:17

Oh man, there's so many angles she could go with that.

2:20

So the simplest way I

2:20

like to explain it, trust

2:23

is like a bank account. So when you are with one or

2:25

more people, you hopefully

2:30

will behave in such. that you can deposit into the

2:33

bank account, uh, which means

2:37

typically that the other person

2:37

perceives your words, your

2:41

actions as trust building. But you can also get into

2:43

situations where people feel

2:46

that my words, my behaviors are

2:46

breaking trust or diminishing

2:51

it, and then people remove

2:51

it from the bank account,

2:54

which then also leads to the

2:54

second thing is that trust is.

2:58

Based on behavior, the way I

2:58

behave, the words I use either

3:02

build trust or they break trust. It's also a belief, so I

3:04

believe I can trust dot,

3:10

dot, dot, and there's many

3:10

different categories that we

3:13

consciously or subconsciously

3:13

use in our head for that.

3:17

It can also be

3:17

just a gut feeling.

3:19

I feel good about this other. So it can be even spiritual.

3:24

Can some people say my sixth

3:24

sense or sometimes a gut

3:28

feeling is not really a feeling. It's much more elusive than

3:29

that, and a lot of people have

3:34

tried to explain trust from

3:34

a neurological point of view.

3:36

So there's a lot to say about

3:36

trust and how it works in the

3:40

brain, and which chemistry

3:40

is unleashed and which

3:43

hormones, et cetera, et cetera. So as you, as you notice,

3:45

not easy to answer

3:48

that it's contextual. Yeah.

3:50

Uh, it, it, uh, it is

3:50

also, that's a fascinating

3:54

one that I've seen that

3:54

we talk a lot about in,

3:56

in intercultural setting. Trust is directly linked to.

4:01

The memory of my senses.

4:04

Oh. Which is fascinating. It's really, I mean,

4:05

the strongest one, you know, the senses.

4:08

So, uh, sight, uh,

4:08

audible memory, uh,

4:11

touch, taste, and smell.

4:14

The interesting one is, smell

4:14

has the strongest impact on

4:19

triggering, uh, memories.

4:21

And when it comes to

4:21

trust, memories of

4:23

trusting or distrust. So, you know, smells from

4:25

even when you were a little.

4:30

They either trigger trust

4:30

or they trigger distrust.

4:32

Wow. And of course, it's

4:33

cultural as well. Uh, so huge body of research as

4:35

well, and trust across cultures.

4:41

And then the last thing is

4:41

it's influenced by personality.

4:44

So some people, just from a

4:44

personality point of view,

4:48

they, they are much more

4:48

likely to deposit trust in

4:52

that bank account upfront. And other people, they

4:55

say, Hmm, I'll wait and.

4:58

Uh, I'm gonna work with you for

4:58

a little while and then I might

5:02

deposit into the bank account. So yeah, there is, what is that?

5:05

There's about nine or

5:05

10 different things.

5:08

Yeah. In some, in some way.

5:10

Yeah. So I don't have a fancy

5:10

academic trust definition,

5:14

but those are the things

5:14

that I, I always see at play

5:17

when, when I'm working with

5:17

people on the topic of trust.

5:22

So I was taking some notes. So it's a behavior, it's a.

5:27

It's a gut feeling. It affects us neurologically

5:28

and it affects the

5:31

memory and our, and our

5:31

senses and it's cultural.

5:34

Wow. That's a lot of things.

5:37

Um, what are some common

5:37

things that you hear

5:41

people say about trust?

5:44

Because

5:44

trust is such, um, it's

5:46

sort of, you grow up with

5:46

a certain context in which

5:50

trust is done in a certain way

5:50

that we don't always have to

5:54

deeply think about it, but. We only start to deeply

5:56

think about it when we leave

5:59

that context and then all

5:59

of a sudden we realize how

6:02

little we actually know

6:02

about trust and how little

6:05

we know and how it works. So, um, that's why people

6:06

either they brush it off

6:10

and they say, oh, this is

6:10

so fluffy and intangible.

6:13

that, uh, we'll

6:13

never figure it out.

6:16

Um, and it is in the one, on

6:16

the one hand is fluffy and

6:19

intangible, but on the other

6:19

hand, it can be also discussed

6:22

in a very structured manner. And you can actually, as a

6:23

group or as two individuals,

6:26

you can come up with very

6:26

practical, tangible things

6:30

you want to do together and

6:30

you want to avoid together

6:33

in order to keep building

6:33

up that trust bank account.

6:38

Some people say that, and this

6:38

is a, a bit of a contentious

6:42

one, that, uh, trust has to be,

6:42

has to be ignited or kickstarted

6:48

through vulnerability. And, um, I hear a lot of

6:50

people speak about that.

6:53

Also, quite a few famous

6:53

authors and, and speakers.

6:57

Um, and what we have found

6:57

is that, Can start in many

7:02

different ways, and that is

7:02

especially across cultures.

7:06

So I don't necessarily want

7:06

to dig into it now, but, uh,

7:10

maybe we can do that as we

7:10

progress, as we continue the

7:13

conversation, but mm-hmm. , um, trust can

7:14

start in many ways. Why is that?

7:16

Well, there are cultures

7:16

where people are more likely

7:20

to give trust upfront. So a phrase in English,

7:23

the benefit of the doubt.

7:26

Mm-hmm. is typically linked

7:26

to, I deposit early,

7:29

sometimes so early that

7:29

you haven't done anything.

7:32

You know, you're my new colleague and we get introduced and I decide

7:34

to deposit trust into our

7:39

relational bank account. And if you live up to

7:40

it, I'll keep depositing.

7:44

Uh, but other cultures

7:44

are much more on the, on

7:47

the earned side of trust. So it's like, like

7:49

two opposites.

7:51

So some culture more on the

7:51

given side of trust give up

7:54

front other cultures more

7:54

on the earned side of trust.

7:58

So the way you'd then earn

7:58

trust in those cultures

8:01

can, can vary significantly.

8:04

Hmm. So, ba back to this idea

8:04

that trust had to start

8:07

through vulnerability. That is a, a very

8:08

tricky thing to say.

8:11

And also if you try it, I've

8:11

seen people try it, then it

8:15

doesn't work, especially in

8:15

an intercultural environ.

8:19

Uh, and the last thing

8:19

I wanna say is that very

8:24

often the way we talk about

8:24

trust, so I, I just use for

8:28

instance, the English phrase,

8:28

the benefit of the doubt.

8:30

There is a whole bunch of

8:30

ways that we get ingrained

8:34

with thinking about trust,

8:34

and there's a lot of

8:37

sayings about trust for. So one that I've hear,

8:40

hear people quote is, uh,

8:43

trust take many years to

8:43

build, a few seconds to

8:46

break and forever to repair.

8:49

I've heard that one . Yeah. And, and, and I know what

8:51

people are trying to say, but

8:55

it's not necessarily true. There is a lot more hope

8:57

when it comes to trust

9:00

. Shelley Reinhart: Yes. Uh, thank goodness. Yeah.

9:02

So, um, let me see what,

9:02

what would another one would.

9:06

He, uh, this is a Chinese

9:06

saying, um, so he who does not

9:10

trust enough, will not be trust.

9:14

Hmm. So, so that idea of earned

9:14

versus given trust, there

9:18

is apparently, there is

9:18

a, a, a unique middle road

9:22

and every culture defines

9:22

that in a different way.

9:25

So this Chinese saying is

9:25

trying to say, you can't

9:28

be a hundred percent on

9:28

the earned side of trust

9:31

because he who does not trust

9:31

enough, will not be trusted.

9:35

So you have to

9:35

deposit at least some.

9:38

But then when you start talking

9:38

to different cultures about how.

9:42

And some cultures say nothing,

9:42

and another culture say, well,

9:46

80, 90, maybe a hundred percent. So yeah.

9:50

So there's a lot of ideas that

9:50

we have about trust and we bring

9:55

those into a group of people. . And if we don't know how

9:57

to talk about those, those

10:00

things, then all our ideas

10:00

and misconceptions about trust

10:04

start living their own life. And then when there is conflict

10:06

or miscommunication, then they,

10:09

these volcanoes start to erupt. Hmm.

10:13

So you're

10:13

saying that trust, the

10:15

earned or given piece of

10:15

trust is a big factor and

10:19

it's how much you give of

10:19

each in the bank account?

10:22

In the, in the trust. . Yeah. Just to sum up, is that

10:24

kind of what you're saying?

10:26

Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. Absolutely.

10:28

That's really helpful. That's really helpful. Is a good picture,

10:30

good way to see it. So if that's true, what

10:32

does trust look like?

10:36

Let's, let's go

10:36

really big picture.

10:38

What does trust look like

10:38

at a macro level, like in

10:42

society and institutions,

10:42

and how does that impact us?

10:47

Yeah. I love that, uh, that

10:48

question because.

10:51

Trust is, you know it

10:51

between two people, me and

10:54

you, but it definitely is

10:54

true at a societal level.

10:58

So there's some cool research out there. Um, for instance, Ipsos does the

11:00

research on which jobs people

11:05

perceive us as trustworthy

11:05

people in those jobs.

11:08

So, for instance, uh, the latest

11:08

one, uh, they just did one.

11:13

Let me see. It was like, yeah, this year,

11:13

28 countries were involved.

11:17

The people in those countries

11:17

perceive doctors, scientists,

11:21

and teachers as the most

11:21

trustworthy profession or the

11:25

people in those professions. Oh, interesting.

11:28

Yeah. And, uh, given the world that we

11:28

live in, , uh, the, the peop the

11:33

lowest uh, rated jobs and people

11:33

in those jobs are advertising

11:38

executives, government

11:38

ministers, and politicians in.

11:43

That makes sense. Yeah. , I can see that

11:46

.

11:46

Marco Blankenburgh: So,

11:48

perceptions about people in

11:48

certain jobs and, you know,

11:52

watch out for so-and-so. Oh, but if so-and-so says it is

11:53

a scientist for, for instance,

11:57

then you can trust them. But there is also, there's a

11:59

very interesting link between

12:04

the amount of trust in society.

12:07

And the prosperity

12:07

of the nation.

12:10

So for instance, um, there

12:10

is, uh, great research done

12:14

by the Lagarto Institute. They produce the prosperity

12:16

index every year, and in the

12:20

factors that they look at,

12:20

um, trust is woven into the

12:24

fact fabric of those factors.

12:26

And, um, when you look at

12:26

a, a nation where there is a

12:31

lot of trust, Then typically

12:31

things start flowing.

12:35

Ideas start flowing. Education is typically

12:37

pursued more.

12:40

There's more stability at a

12:40

neighborhood, town, city level,

12:45

but also trades starts to grow. So, and, and, and what you

12:48

also see with, when you look at

12:50

the, for instance, prosperity

12:50

index, if there is trust,

12:54

it's easier to get things. Paperwork becomes easier.

12:57

So registering a business,

12:57

for instance, becomes

13:00

easier, but then it also

13:00

spills over across borders.

13:04

So if there is trust between

13:04

two countries, for instance,

13:08

then those countries

13:08

are more likely to have

13:10

healthy trade agreements. If there is distrust

13:13

between two countries,

13:15

then they start to announce

13:15

all kinds of limitations.

13:19

And you can see that in the

13:19

world that we live in right now,

13:22

especially at the superpower

13:22

level, for instance, and, uh,

13:27

you just look, for instance,

13:27

at the amount of, uh, trade

13:31

limiting legislation that has

13:31

been passed in the last two

13:34

years, it's, it has skyrocketed

13:34

and it's a sign that there is

13:39

lack of trust between countries. So the other, the last thing I

13:41

wanna mention on that point is

13:45

that, uh, inter-regional trade,

13:45

Is directly cor correlated with

13:51

the amount of trust between

13:51

the countries in that region.

13:55

And you can look at different

13:55

regions around the world where

13:58

people say, uh, why did you buy,

13:58

um, your groceries from this,

14:03

uh, produced in this country

14:03

and not in this other country?

14:07

And then people typically

14:07

start saying things like,

14:10

ah, but I can't trust their

14:10

manufacturing, or I can't

14:12

trust their agriculture. I mean, they, they, uh, they

14:14

cheat, uh, with fertilizers

14:17

or with pesticides, so I'm not

14:17

buying my groceries from there.

14:21

Interesting. So that cross-regional trade

14:21

even is directly impacted,

14:25

uh, by how much trust

14:25

there is between countries.

14:28

Wow. Trust really matters

14:28

on all those levels.

14:32

Yeah, absolutely.

14:33

Mm.

14:34

Wow. And so, There's that

14:35

big picture where trust

14:39

affects us on that level.

14:41

Let's zoom in on how a

14:41

lack of trust impacts

14:46

on an individual level. So, well, first of all, you

14:47

had mentioned neurological, how

14:51

it affects us neurologically. , does a lack of trust effects

14:53

affect an individual from an

14:56

neurological point of view?

14:58

Absolutely. Now, I, I'm not a

14:58

neuroscientist, I just love it

15:01

because as an interculturalist,

15:01

uh, the neuroscience sometimes

15:07

explains just from another angle

15:07

what's really going on between

15:11

people who don't understand each

15:11

other and who might culturally

15:14

not be on the same wavelength. So I love the subject, but,

15:15

uh, so the main trust hormone

15:20

is oxytocin and, uh, Um,

15:20

oxytocin has a huge function

15:26

in, uh, human relationships

15:26

already starting with the

15:29

birth of a baby and the bonding

15:29

between mother and child.

15:32

And it's beautiful to watch how

15:32

trust then, um, creates that

15:37

deep bond and, uh, what trust

15:37

does in many adults, you know,

15:41

in, in work relationships. It makes us feel relaxed.

15:45

It makes us feel comfortable. It allows us to open up.

15:48

We start sharing things. We become more transparent.

15:51

Mm-hmm. , we feel safe. Another interesting thing

15:54

is if we, if there is trust

15:56

between us, we, we are much

15:56

clearer in our thinking and,

16:00

uh, as a result of that,

16:00

creativity starts to flow.

16:04

The, uh, the opposite is true,

16:04

that if there is distrust,

16:08

the first thing that happens

16:08

is there's a bunch of neuro

16:10

peptides, they call them,

16:10

um, little chemicals that get

16:14

shot into the bloodstream. When we distrust those chemicals

16:16

start to cloud our thinking.

16:21

. So we don't think clearly. And, uh, psychologists call

16:23

that brain, brain fog, not,

16:26

not the, uh, covid version

16:26

of brain fog, but mm-hmm.

16:29

brain fog because of,

16:29

because of distrust.

16:31

So as soon as that happens,

16:31

I become more guarded.

16:35

Uh, I've become more suspicious

16:35

of the other person, and as

16:40

a result, I'm very selective

16:40

in the information I share.

16:43

So creativity, innovation then

16:43

becomes a lot more difficult.

16:47

Wow.

16:48

I did not know that. That is fascinating.

16:51

So it even affects

16:51

our brain chemistry.

16:54

Absolutely. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

16:56

Gosh. That's why it's, yeah, that's

16:58

why it's so important that,

17:01

that we, we figure out how to

17:01

create trust, um, in the best

17:07

possible way between people. Cuz things just start flowing.

17:11

It's so much more beautiful

17:11

if there is trust between us,

17:15

so

17:15

as, as flowing as easily

17:17

as country to country. and community to

17:19

community as well as

17:22

individual to individual. Wow.

17:24

Absolutely. Yeah.

17:26

So how

17:26

does trust affect us, say

17:28

in our workplaces or, you

17:28

know, in faith communities

17:32

or in, in our group settings? Mm-hmm.

17:34

, how does it impact us there? . Yeah.

17:37

A lack of trust.

17:38

Yeah. In big ways. So when you think about what

17:39

I just explained on the, from

17:43

a neurological point of view,

17:43

if you are in a, in a less

17:47

trusting environment and you

17:47

feel uncomfortable with your

17:50

colleagues, you feel you can't

17:50

really share information, you're

17:55

guarded with sharing feelings.

17:57

As a result, problem solving

17:57

becomes really, So you, and also

18:02

you might get, uh, clusters of

18:02

people that trust each other

18:06

a little bit more, but then

18:06

those groups, uh, almost like

18:10

corporate tribes, they form

18:10

and then people don't Oh, yeah.

18:14

People don't share information without another. Between those, and very

18:15

often what we see is that

18:19

it spirals into toxicity.

18:22

Uh, so it creates actually

18:22

a toxic culture over time.

18:26

It spirals down, um, and

18:26

very often trust then then

18:31

results in people leaving. So either they first

18:33

leave on the job, so

18:36

they start to withdraw. They become what I

18:37

call minimalists. They do the minimum to

18:39

keep their pay . Yeah.

18:42

Yeah. And they start to just

18:42

keep their head down.

18:44

That's another phrase that you don't often hear in those situations.

18:48

Mm-hmm. and uh, eventually, Those who

18:48

can find another job, they,

18:53

they will leave or who can

18:53

afford to not work for a while.

18:56

And, uh, that also then has

18:56

side effect because those

19:00

that then eventually stay and

19:00

stay and say they are then

19:04

getting the brunt of that as

19:04

the culture spirals downward.

19:08

And some people, they, uh,

19:08

they talk even about, um, When

19:14

there is a lot of change in the

19:14

organization and it gets really

19:17

difficult and people just get

19:17

exhausted from all the change,

19:20

they can't, they feel they can't

19:20

trust the organization anymore.

19:24

Uh, one of my friends, uh,

19:24

who's been in change management

19:27

for more than 25 years, he,

19:27

he talks about how, how it

19:31

creates a traumatized workforce.

19:33

Oh wow. There's so much

19:34

change in the system. You can't really

19:36

trust the company. They say one thing the

19:38

next and the next they

19:40

say something else. So there's a drop of morale,

19:41

trust drops, productivity

19:45

drops, um, innovation, what I

19:45

just talked about, typically

19:51

stress goes up as well. So adrenaline, cortisol start to

19:53

act up and, um, all these things

19:59

can, can then have a negative.

20:02

Have you

20:02

heard of the quiet quitting

20:05

sort of a buzzword now?

20:08

Uh, no. Not in that, in that way. Please explain to me,

20:11

. Shelley Reinhart: Well, what you're saying.

20:13

It's that, so you're saying

20:13

that trust impacts how I feel

20:19

in my job, how I'm relating

20:19

in my job in such a way

20:22

that I could actually leave

20:22

because of a lack of trust?

20:25

Absolutely. Well, Wow.

20:28

Gosh. Um, that's, that's huge.

20:31

Yeah. Gallup just did, uh, a

20:31

new survey on, uh, the,

20:36

the situation in the

20:36

workplace, their 2022

20:39

survey highly recommended. And they also discovered that in

20:40

certain parts of the world, um,

20:46

up to two thirds of the people

20:46

indicated that if they had a

20:49

chance to leave, they would

20:49

leave their current employer.

20:54

And that's

20:54

very alarming, a huge number.

20:57

Yeah. Two thirds. Yeah. It's not everywhere.

21:00

Not in every sector of the world, but, right. I, I was, I was really shocked

21:02

when I saw those numbers cuz

21:05

it indicates people are, are

21:05

unhappy, they don't trust their

21:09

current employment situation. They don't, they don't

21:11

feel they're fully engaged

21:14

and uh, they were looking for something else.

21:16

So it could

21:16

indicate that not only do we.

21:20

as bosses, as coworkers, we

21:20

don't understand what trust

21:24

is and we don't understand

21:24

the impact trust can have

21:28

because if we did, we'd be

21:28

focusing a lot more on how

21:30

to build it, how to make a

21:30

positive trust environment.

21:34

So I mean, so yes, that's how

21:34

trust, the lack of trust affects

21:40

us, but how do we build it? Mm-hmm.

21:42

, how do I as a boss or a

21:42

coworker, build trust?

21:47

and what are the efen, you

21:47

know, the essentials of trust.

21:50

. Marco Blankenburgh: Yeah. It's so important, but also

21:51

sometimes hard to sell,

21:54

especially in a world where

21:54

we are, um, we are struggling

21:59

to, uh, meet performance

21:59

targets certain sectors Yeah.

22:03

Are really struggling. Mm-hmm. and it's so easy.

22:06

Then say, let's focus on the,

22:06

on the performance targets, and

22:10

it's like a chicken or the egg. Focusing on the performance ERs

22:12

then makes you drop the ball on

22:15

the human side of the equation. Yes.

22:17

Um, I see that. So it, it's like two

22:18

sides of the same coin.

22:21

So on the one hand, we need

22:21

to pursue, uh, transactional

22:25

performance excellence. On the other hand,

22:27

we need to pursue relational excellence now.

22:32

Some people claim, you know, as

22:32

long as we meet our performance

22:34

targets, we will be okay. You know, my work, I, I am just

22:37

passionate about allow, creating

22:41

places where people thrive. Creating that third

22:42

cultural space, because

22:45

I know from experience

22:45

if, if you can achieve

22:47

that, people will perform. Yes.

22:50

And it's not as black and

22:50

white as I just stated it,

22:52

but, Learning to, to do both

22:52

sides well, the relational

22:58

side and the transactional,

22:58

you know, KPIs, KPI side of

23:02

the equation is really one

23:02

of the, the starting points.

23:06

And um, you can't just say,

23:06

we'll do one of them and we'll

23:10

forget about the other one

23:10

for a little while cuz then.

23:13

It always le leads to,

23:13

uh, a drop in performance

23:17

and people start to leave. People feel unhappy, engagement

23:18

goes down, et cetera.

23:21

I see that. Yeah. So if I'm, if I'm going

23:23

to trust, say that I, I,

23:26

you know, I'm a manager,

23:26

how do I build it?

23:29

How do I build trust on my team? , how do I do it?

23:33

How do I structure

23:33

conversations around it?

23:36

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so in our, in our work on,

23:37

on developing high performing

23:41

intercultural teams, this

23:41

is a very, very important

23:44

conversation and a very

23:44

significant question because,

23:48

you know what we just discussed? We, we do need to

23:49

think much more deeply.

23:54

In, in a much more

23:54

structured manner about

23:57

trust and doing that in an

23:57

intercultural environment.

24:01

What we have found is that,

24:01

um, there are key conversations

24:05

to be had that allow us.

24:08

To, to really grab hold of

24:08

what do we as a group or as

24:13

two individuals or as a team,

24:13

what do we need to do be from

24:17

a behavioral point of view to

24:17

build a trusting environment.

24:21

So, mm, yes. And tell me, tell me . So

24:23

we even talk about it

24:27

from a, from a, we call it

24:27

merit-based trust because

24:31

merit, the idea, merit trust. We, we agree on pursuing

24:33

certain behaviors together.

24:37

We are clear that those

24:37

behaviors interculturally

24:41

resonate with all team members

24:41

and we start pursuing them,

24:45

and then that merit-based

24:45

trust starts to grow

24:48

because we've agreed to go

24:48

forward in a certain way.

24:52

We've agreed to avoid certain behaviors. Collectively pursue it.

24:57

And we see it, we see it

24:57

grow, we see it come alive,

25:00

and that's what we're trying to do with teams. So it, it, it, it's not really

25:02

rocket science, but it's,

25:06

first of all, I think I had to

25:06

recognize myself that when it

25:09

comes to, in the cultural trust,

25:09

I really knew very little.

25:14

At the start, and I like,

25:14

I like to start with that.

25:18

When I work with leaders,

25:18

for instance, it's like

25:21

we don't really know much

25:21

about trust, especially not

25:23

trust with the cocktail,

25:23

the beautiful mix of people

25:26

that you have on your team. So let's.

25:30

Open up the conversation

25:30

in such a way that every

25:32

everybody can be part of it. Everybody feels safe to

25:34

start expressing what's

25:36

important for them. And then we structure the

25:38

conversation around four words.

25:41

So we, we've realized that

25:41

there are four words when

25:45

you start listening to people

25:45

that always come up as trust

25:49

builders or trust breakers. So reliability is probably

25:52

the easiest one to identify.

25:57

I promise something I don't do. You withdraw from our

26:00

trust bank account.

26:02

If I promise, if I

26:02

promise something and

26:04

I do it, you deposit in

26:04

the trust bank account.

26:08

And that's, that's okay. That's reliability.

26:11

Okay. Yeah. So that's one

26:12

conversation to be had.

26:13

That makes sense. Mm-hmm.

26:15

and the way

26:15

I see reliability, what's the

26:18

top, the top three on my show

26:18

me reliability list is probably

26:23

different from my, my teammates. So let's explore

26:25

what that looks.

26:28

Um, and then another one

26:28

has to do with honesty.

26:32

So what type of honesty is

26:32

gonna be helpful for us?

26:36

What type of honesty is

26:36

not so helpful for us?

26:41

And interesting thing

26:41

about that, I come from the

26:44

Netherlands, so I thought all

26:44

forms of honesty are helpful.

26:50

, mm-hmm. . And you ask me a question,

26:51

I give you an honest answer.

26:54

Uh, but sometimes those

26:54

honest answers are not so

26:58

helpful, uh, because different

26:58

cultures deal with questions

27:02

and answers in different ways

27:02

or with sharing opinions.

27:05

Space. So then the packaging

27:05

of those ideas and those

27:09

opinions has to be considered.

27:11

So on an intercultural team,

27:11

um, honesty, really, it

27:16

actually starts inside of me. It starts with, I'm

27:17

having a conversation

27:20

with a con colleague. Am I honestly present with you?

27:25

And that idea of of, of, uh,

27:25

honoring each other, um, being

27:31

fully present in a conversation.

27:33

And that's sort of the

27:33

inner state of, of honesty.

27:36

Do I, do I create that type of

27:36

an engagement with you and, and

27:40

especially in an intercultural

27:40

situation, people feel that.

27:44

So what does that look? Do we, do we easily

27:46

get distracted?

27:49

Is it okay for us to, uh,

27:49

when my phone gives me a

27:53

ping, I stop our conversation,

27:53

I pick up my phone.

27:57

Or is that disrespectful? Or in some cultures, people say,

27:58

yeah, that's perfectly fine.

28:02

I don't have a problem with that. So reliability and then honesty.

28:08

Another one is respect. So I've heard people

28:10

say on, on intercultural

28:13

teams, well, as long as

28:13

we all respect each other.

28:16

Yes, but what is respect? Yeah, exactly.

28:19

Exactly. How do you define it? Yeah. There's so many ways to

28:20

show respect to each other.

28:23

Like, I, I heard

28:23

it two weeks ago.

28:25

I, I've heard this multiple

28:25

times over the years, but

28:28

two weeks ago, somebody else

28:28

mentioned it again and said,

28:31

well, on our team, we had

28:31

a gentleman join the team.

28:36

And, um, he, he des he, in

28:36

his culture, it was perfectly

28:40

fine to come in, in the, into

28:40

the office in the morning

28:43

to acknowledge your co. In the morning, but once

28:45

you've done that, you're done.

28:48

You don't have to, you know

28:48

when you do, when you walk

28:51

past their offers or you

28:51

see them in the canteen?

28:54

Mm-hmm. , you don't have to acknowledge them again. And he was offending hi his

28:56

colleagues because he wasn't

29:00

showing respect because

29:00

a lot of his colleagues,

29:03

as soon as you drift in

29:03

physically into each other's

29:05

space, you acknowledge each. , yes.

29:08

And you say hi and say, how are you doing? Uhhuh, , et cetera.

29:11

And if you have to do

29:11

that 20 times a day, you

29:14

do it 20 times a day. Yes, you do.

29:16

Right? So there are so many ways to

29:16

show respect that uh, if you

29:20

don't start a conversation

29:20

about that, then uh, you are

29:24

gonna get yourself into trouble. And this goes all the

29:25

way into confidentiality.

29:29

, um, um, morality, so

29:29

accepting each other's ways

29:35

of looking at morals and

29:35

values and ethics, um, but

29:38

also respecting, uh, um, when

29:38

things are shared in private.

29:42

It's not just conf, you know,

29:42

corporate or organizational

29:45

confidentiality, but

29:45

also just conversations

29:48

between colleagues. Uh, how do you show respect by.

29:52

Not sharing information

29:52

that your colleague doesn't

29:55

want to have shared. So gets into gossip.

29:58

Gets into gossip, for instance. You know, it's fascinating

29:59

on teams when it comes to

30:02

the topic of respect, I would

30:02

say eight of out of 10 teams.

30:07

Gossip always comes up. Really?

30:10

Yeah. Gossip is one of the best ways

30:10

to destroy trust on a team.

30:15

And, and that's, I find now

30:15

that it's across cultures.

30:18

Um, so learning to show

30:18

respect with information, uh,

30:23

especially if it's privileged

30:23

information between colleagues

30:26

is incredibly important. And then the last one, um,

30:28

has to do with openness.

30:31

So, I think the main things

30:31

there is how, how do we

30:35

share, uh, feedback with

30:35

one another, for instance.

30:39

So, okay.

30:41

That's what openness is, is sharing feedback.

30:43

It's

30:43

being open to being,

30:46

being, uh, mentored,

30:46

for instance, uh mm-hmm.

30:48

, as in how can I

30:48

improve what I do?

30:51

Am I, oh yeah, am

30:51

I open to that?

30:53

Am I open to receiving

30:53

and giving feedback?

30:56

But then your job's not done yet. You might say, yeah,

30:58

I'm fine with that, but

31:00

then how do you package. So that idea of appropriate

31:02

openness in an intercultural

31:07

team, I, I might say, yeah, but

31:07

you should be willing to receive

31:11

feedback and I think the job

31:11

you did yesterday was terrible.

31:15

Well, in some cultural

31:15

settings, that way of giving

31:19

feedback destroys trust.

31:21

So yes, how do I package

31:21

it in such a way that

31:26

trust is still being. . So those are the four words

31:28

that we often use to structure

31:33

that trust conversation,

31:33

to then create agreement

31:36

on behaviors to pursue with

31:36

people and behaviors to avoid.

31:40

And we call that, you know,

31:40

your trust charter or whatever.

31:44

Uh, you could give it a nice, fancy name. It's typically no more than

31:47

a half page or so, but it's

31:50

really, it's really powerful. To, to create the third cultural

31:53

space and, and not make any

31:58

assumptions about how trust is

31:58

built and how trust is broken.

32:03

And you

32:03

find those words, covers

32:05

everything that's needed

32:05

to really define trust.

32:10

,

32:10

Marco Blankenburgh: you could go

32:13

that, especially in teams that

32:13

work together in organizations

32:17

made A to B not-for-profits

32:17

or, or, or commercial, uh, or

32:21

educational, those are typically

32:21

the words that, that really

32:25

unlock most of the conversations

32:25

that need to be had.

32:29

Mm-hmm. , that's great. And when you've

32:31

done this in the. With teams.

32:35

Do you find that people, once

32:35

the conversation is started,

32:38

they do start to really share

32:38

how they define these things?

32:42

They open

32:43

up, absolutely. Yeah. And we have, you know, fun,

32:44

creative ways to do that,

32:48

um, that, that allow them to

32:48

really start sharing stories,

32:52

cuz that, that's probably

32:52

the, the most important.

32:54

Everybody brings their own

32:54

cultural journey into a

32:58

team setting, for instance,

32:58

and creating room for.

33:02

Helps people understand,

33:02

ah, that's why, how, why you

33:06

think of the way you do, uh,

33:06

about honesty, for instance.

33:10

Um, that's why, for

33:10

instance, as a, a guy born

33:15

in, in, in a Dutch context. Now 30 years outside the

33:17

Netherlands, when I first

33:21

moved outside, I, I had no clue

33:21

about how to be indirect in my

33:25

communication, for instance. Hmm. ,

33:28

Shelley Reinhart: Yes. And.

33:31

How often I burn

33:31

trust as a result of.

33:35

Because I was too much in

33:35

people's face or, uh, I didn't

33:38

know how to package honesty

33:38

in a respectful manner.

33:42

That was more indirect. I didn't know that, that it

33:43

was okay to maybe not raise

33:48

an issue during a meeting. , but rather offer my colleague

33:50

to, you know, let's have

33:53

a coffee and let's talk. Um, I thought it had to be,

33:55

you know, the best way to deal

33:57

with this was do it in the

33:57

meeting there and then get it

34:00

over with so that it's solved. Um, and I realized the hard

34:03

way that that breaks trust,

34:07

uh, for yes, many people in

34:07

an intercultural setting.

34:10

So yeah, getting, getting

34:10

that conversation going.

34:14

Um, I often see that people

34:14

start to share their.

34:19

They bring their story

34:19

into the work context.

34:21

It creates understanding,

34:21

but also it, it creates

34:25

room because people want

34:25

their stories to be heard.

34:28

Yes. And when that starts happening,

34:29

people start to say, ah, okay.

34:34

If that's how you see it, how

34:34

shall we then together, uh,

34:39

build trust and keep trust,

34:39

you know, at the highest level.

34:44

that's

34:45

really beautiful. So people are sharing their

34:46

stories of basically how they've

34:50

understood and built trust

34:50

from their human perspective.

34:54

They're sharing that

34:54

and then understanding

34:57

is gained on the team. I love that. Mm-hmm. . Wow.

35:00

Mm-hmm. . So I've heard you talk about,

35:01

um, the five focus areas

35:07

of building relational. I've heard that.

35:10

I've heard you mention that. What are those five focus areas

35:12

and why is building relational

35:16

capital so important and

35:16

how does it relate to trust?

35:20

Yeah, relational capital is, is super important.

35:23

And it also alludes to the

35:23

fourth conversations that

35:28

we're actually having to

35:28

build intercultural teams.

35:31

So we call it the four pillars

35:31

of intercultural teaming.

35:34

Trust is always the one we start with. The second one is to, to

35:36

do with the overcoming

35:39

communication challenges. Mm-hmm.

35:41

. The third one is, is all

35:41

about aligning on how

35:44

we pursue purpose, how

35:44

we celebrate together.

35:47

and how we correct each other. So what do we do if we do?

35:51

And what do we do if we don't? And then the last one

35:52

alluding to your question,

35:55

relational capital. Mm-hmm. . And this has really come to the

35:57

surface since Covid started.

36:01

More and more people

36:01

are starting to realize

36:03

how important relational

36:03

capital, relational strength,

36:07

collective relational

36:07

strength is on a team.

36:10

Because what we saw is, Teams

36:10

who had healthy, strong, and

36:16

healthy relational hybrid. . Before COVID started, they

36:18

held together teams that

36:22

didn't have that, they started

36:22

to disintegrate much faster.

36:25

Mm-hmm. . So relational capital is

36:26

back . Um, and, um, when

36:31

you think about it, building

36:31

relational strength or

36:34

relational capital requires me

36:34

to un first of all understand

36:38

myself and understand you. So, , that's who I am as

36:40

an emotional human being,

36:43

as a, as a psychological

36:43

human being, a personality,

36:47

behavioral style, but also as

36:47

a, as a cultural human being.

36:50

So there's this undercurrent

36:50

of we want to build strong

36:54

relationships, then we have to

36:54

get to know each other better.

36:58

And we see that often with

36:58

teams that once we start

37:01

these conversations, they

37:01

say, man, I, I really need.

37:06

To spend more time

37:06

with you, uh, you know.

37:08

Mm-hmm. , let's hangs. I love that. Let's hang out, uh, cuz I

37:10

really want to get to the bottom

37:13

of this, or I really wanna

37:13

understand, uh, how you're

37:16

wired, where you're coming

37:16

from, because it helps us to

37:19

be more successful as a team. And then those five things that

37:21

you're alerting to, um mm-hmm.

37:26

now. It's not always possible

37:28

to fully embrace those.

37:31

Depends how much pressure

37:31

there is on the system

37:33

in the organization. But the first one I like

37:34

to talk about is that it

37:37

is people before process. Hmm.

37:41

We need to people before process. Um, we need to build

37:42

organizations that are, you

37:46

know, as, as beautiful as

37:46

the people working in them.

37:50

And putting people before

37:50

process is one of the ways to.

37:55

Yeah. The other thing, and I, I

37:56

mentioned it early, earlier

37:58

on when we talked about

37:58

honest honesty starting on the

38:02

inside, as in am I honestly

38:02

present in this conversation?

38:07

And that's the second part of

38:07

building strong relationships

38:10

or building relational

38:10

capital, is that making

38:12

every interaction count. So yeah, let's

38:14

every interaction.

38:17

Yeah. Am I honestly present? Mm-hmm.

38:20

. Marco Blankenburgh: Yeah. So listen, well ask good

38:20

questions and when you need

38:24

to have, you know, a, a, a

38:24

transactional, a tactical

38:28

conversation, make sure

38:28

you verify what you heard.

38:31

So we call it mirroring.

38:33

Make sure that if the person

38:33

has given you insight or

38:36

information, make sure

38:36

that you mirror it back

38:40

so that you clarify. So make every interaction count.

38:44

We've already mentioned

38:44

this, but when it comes to

38:46

relational capital, um, there,

38:46

the world of your colleague

38:51

is important, so, So their

38:51

struggles, their passions,

38:56

their goals, they're important

38:56

and making time for it despite

39:01

the fact that we're all super

39:01

busy making time and asking,

39:06

how are you actually doing? Or, Hey, you mentioned that you,

39:07

this, this was, uh, you had some

39:12

challenges or, uh, mentioned

39:12

you had a great weekend.

39:16

It's not just a fluffy,

39:16

you know, brush over

39:19

question, but really, Care

39:19

about each other's world.

39:23

So that's the big one. So be So would

39:25

you say like, being curious

39:27

about your colleagues and

39:27

being interested in them?

39:30

Yeah. Yeah.

39:30

And, and of course, you know, behavioral style has a huge role to play.

39:34

Yes. Some behavioral styles. They love doing that all day.

39:38

Yeah. And other, other, other

39:38

behavioral styles, they say,

39:41

let's get to the bottom. Why, why are we meeting Yes.

39:43

You know, , um, but

39:43

find what's the point?

39:45

Yeah, exactly. So what, what's the ba healthy

39:46

balance, but, Caring about

39:52

each other's world, and then

39:52

also my intention towards you.

39:56

Uh, that's another

39:56

key ingredient.

39:59

So displaying worthy intent.

40:02

So when I meet with you, it's

40:02

almost like you before me.

40:06

So in this conversation, I

40:06

want to make you important

40:11

and I want to therefore

40:11

be present because we're

40:16

colleagues and we wanna work. And we might have a hierarchical

40:18

difference in terms of roles and

40:21

responsibilities, but no matter

40:21

who the colleague is that you're

40:26

sitting down with, no matter

40:26

where they fit in the hierarchy,

40:29

um, displaying worthy intent

40:29

in meeting with each other, no

40:34

matter if it's virtual or in

40:34

person, I think is so beautiful.

40:37

And, and it really, it really

40:37

lifts people, um, as you, as

40:42

you build relational strength

40:42

or relational capital.

40:44

And the last one, sure. Yeah. Mm-hmm. , the last one.

40:47

In that whole process, um, you

40:47

still need to be performance

40:51

focused because you might

40:51

be the most amazing team and

40:55

relationships are amazing. But if. The performance is not there.

40:59

. Right? . The, the team will

41:00

still fall apart.

41:02

Yeah. Uh, so, uh, connecting

41:03

performance to purpose as you

41:08

built the relational strength. So what's really important there

41:09

is, uh, and this is especially

41:14

during Covid, this has come

41:14

up that as a result of covid.

41:18

Especially the young

41:18

generation, the new joiners

41:22

into the workforce, they

41:22

struggle tremendously to BR

41:26

build a professional network. They get stuck in the small

41:29

virtual circles that they

41:32

can go get called into. So especially during covid,

41:36

we really need to focus on

41:38

connecting and networking.

41:41

And using that to, to enhance

41:41

the visibility of, of the, our

41:45

team and the visibility of the

41:45

work that we're doing together.

41:49

And that requires,

41:49

uh, extra effort in

41:51

terms of communication. So I, I call it communication

41:53

squared, uh, really,

41:56

really, uh, investing time.

41:59

And, and when it comes to

41:59

trust building, um, the

42:02

whole piece of communication

42:02

is so incredibly important.

42:07

Yes. Uh, we talk about scaffolding

42:07

our communication, so,

42:10

so that it really has

42:10

the impact intended.

42:13

So those are the five, um,

42:13

people before process making

42:18

every interaction count. Care about each other's world.

42:22

Mm-hmm. , display worthy intent and

42:23

pursue performance together

42:27

and, uh, link it to purpose. And I think those are really,

42:29

uh, those are high goals.

42:34

I mean, yes, to really have

42:34

those insight all the time,

42:38

but I've seen teams really

42:38

rise up as a result of that.

42:43

Who would

42:43

not wanna be on a team like that? Hmm.

42:46

Uh, where you feel

42:46

like your contribu.

42:49

Matters. And you as a

42:50

person, people care.

42:53

They're invested in you. That's, that's, that's awesome.

42:58

I would love to be on a team like that. And I, I kind of, I

42:59

kind of am actually.

43:03

. Uh, and that leads me

43:03

to my next question.

43:05

Um, what are ways, mark,

43:05

that you've purposely build,

43:10

built trust on our team. Um, the team of

43:11

KnowledgeWorks, of course.

43:14

I've worked at KnowledgeWorks

43:14

for a few years now.

43:17

So I think I know the answer to

43:17

this question, but I'd love to

43:20

hear, hear are your thoughts,

43:20

you know, your personal Well,

43:26

,

43:26

Marco Blankenburgh: it's,

43:29

uh, I, I feel privileged

43:29

and blessed that we have

43:33

an amazing group of people. But it's also, when I look

43:35

at back at the early years

43:38

of KnowledgeWorks, we've

43:38

made plenty of mistakes,

43:41

um, where it's not easy to,

43:41

in a, in a tough industry.

43:47

To, to really fire on both

43:47

sides, like the transactional

43:51

side of the business, pursuing

43:51

transactional excellence

43:54

and pursuing relational

43:54

excellence at the same time.

43:57

Mm-hmm. . And, uh, it's hard, you

43:58

know, it's really hard.

44:01

Mm-hmm. and, and when I look back,

44:01

um, It's either, um, one

44:06

of my friends calls it

44:06

the, the infinity loop.

44:09

So you focus on the people

44:09

side and things really start

44:12

coming together, and then your

44:12

processes start to suffer.

44:15

Or your, your financials

44:15

are not in the right place.

44:18

And then you swing over to the

44:18

financials and fix it all up

44:21

and get policies and procedures

44:21

and workflows in place.

44:24

And then you realize

44:24

that the people starts,

44:26

starts, uh, people side

44:26

starts to suffer again.

44:29

Mm-hmm. . So it's a, it's hard to,

44:29

to pay that balancing act.

44:33

. Um, but in the last few

44:33

years, especially, I, I, I.

44:36

um, uh, within KnowledgeWorks,

44:36

we, we rallied around this

44:40

word, uh, creating multipliers.

44:43

So multiplication, creating

44:43

multipliers become, became

44:47

our rally word, and we found

44:47

multiple ways to create those

44:52

multipliers with one another. And that's where things

44:54

become really practical.

44:57

And, uh, by, by getting

44:57

that level of clarity on

45:00

the team, I think we were

45:00

able to start quantify.

45:04

How do we then behave

45:04

amongst each other?

45:07

How do we then behave in our

45:07

communication with our clients?

45:11

How do we behave when it comes

45:11

to finances and decision making?

45:15

Uh, we're not, you know, we're

45:15

a social enterprise, so for us

45:18

it's really important to, on the

45:18

one hand, be financially viable.

45:22

On the other hand, have as much

45:22

impact in, in our world today.

45:27

Mm-hmm. . So how do you make decisions? Those multipliers

45:29

move forward together.

45:32

Um, and how do you make sure

45:32

that we, we live who we claim,

45:38

you know, who we claim to be. That we, we, we, you can

45:39

come and visit our offers or

45:43

hang out with our team and,

45:43

and see that we actually

45:46

in house, we, we practice

45:46

what we preach, so to speak.

45:49

Yes. Um, so, so for instance,

45:50

you know, in our

45:53

communication we, we.

45:56

We're very careful

45:56

with our packaging.

45:59

So we talk about scaffolding,

45:59

our communication.

46:02

Mm-hmm. , what do we know about the person? On the other hand, uh, one

46:04

of the tools that we use is,

46:07

uh, using the three colors of

46:07

worldview in our communication.

46:10

For instance, yes. Am I, am I doing

46:12

right by people?

46:14

Am I honoring people? And it's my communication,

46:16

empowering and life giving

46:19

to the person receiving. Um, and we, we spent time on

46:21

that and often we read each

46:26

other's emails and we say, Hey,

46:26

how does this sound to you?

46:29

I'm writing to so-and-so. I'm trying to get

46:30

this message across. What do you think?

46:34

Um, and that slows us

46:34

down in the beginning.

46:37

But in the long run, it

46:37

really helps us to yes, prac

46:41

to practice these things

46:41

and to build relational

46:43

capital, to build high,

46:43

higher levels of trust.

46:46

And it's beautiful when

46:46

we get feedback from

46:48

our clients, they are.

46:51

It's very relational, but

46:51

it's also transactionally

46:54

professional. Um, mm-hmm. , it's high.

46:57

You know, quick turnaround,

46:57

uh, is one of the things

47:00

that people say the most,

47:00

uh, pleasant conversations.

47:04

Approachable, people willing

47:04

to go the extra mile, and,

47:08

and that takes time to

47:08

nurture that internally.

47:12

Another way that I think,

47:12

uh, we've built trust is

47:15

that, yes, we have roles. Within these roles, we are,

47:18

we all have, um, leadership.

47:24

So if, um, if I think of,

47:24

uh, for instance, uh, our

47:28

office manager, Rosalyn,

47:28

she's in in charge, , uh,

47:33

she's, uh, in that role, uh,

47:36

yes. And does an excellent

47:37

job in that role.

47:39

Yeah. When I think of, uh, Rajita

47:39

taking care of our websites,

47:43

she's in charge of that role. Mm-hmm.

47:45

, and she does a wonderful job. And she's, she is freed

47:46

to do that in her way.

47:50

Yes. And, uh, That creates trust

47:51

because, um, I, I'm given

47:55

a task, a responsibility. I'm, I'm allowed to run with

47:57

that, but also I can expect

48:01

the team to back me up if I

48:01

don't know how to do something

48:05

or if I need additional

48:05

resources or if I have, uh,

48:08

skills that I need to develop

48:08

that the team will rally.

48:12

But the team will also find ways. to equip that person

48:14

to do even a better job

48:17

next month or next year. Yes. And that's also really important

48:19

when it comes to trust building.

48:23

Mm-hmm. ,

48:24

Shelley Reinhart: you know,

48:26

with everything you've said. I, I, I love all of those

48:27

aspects of our team.

48:31

And also I think just

48:31

understanding the personality

48:34

piece is so helpful as well. In our office, we have a wall

48:36

with all of our disc profiles.

48:40

Yep. And, uh, I, I, I love that

48:41

because, Knowing that, you

48:46

know, knowing you are more

48:46

of a D it's very helpful.

48:49

And, and what did you say? Scaffolding our communication.

48:52

Mm mm How I relate to you, how I

48:52

interpret you, how I understand

48:58

the way you communicate. I just, I, I think it's

48:59

so helpful, so helpful.

49:02

. Marco Blankenburgh: And thanks for mentioning that

49:03

because, um, actually the place

49:06

in the office, I just have

49:06

to look up from my desk and

49:09

I can quickly glance, glance

49:09

across to the glass wall back

49:13

there and, uh, A reminder.

49:15

Yeah,

49:15

a quick reminder. Oh yeah. Shelly is an eye

49:20

That's why she's, Going crazy. Yeah.

49:22

. Marco Blankenburgh: Yeah. Change. Changing the language, changing

49:23

the packaging depending on who

49:27

you're talking to on an email. Yes. Or or in person.

49:31

Yeah. Yes. Culturally

49:31

and personality-wise.

49:33

I love that. And, um, as we wrap up, that

49:35

was an excellent answer.

49:39

Thank you so much for that. As we wrap up, I think for

49:40

everyone listening, how

49:44

do we practically apply?

49:47

What we've learned today. So what are some practical

49:48

ways I can start building

49:51

trust today, tomorrow, on

49:51

my team, even in my family.

49:57

Hmm. Yeah, you actually

49:58

raised a great point.

50:01

Uh, in a family it works

50:01

very in a similar way.

50:04

Oh, it does, does

50:04

within families.

50:06

We have our own trust

50:06

bank account, Really?

50:09

And we, we withdraw and we deposit Um, and those four words

50:11

again become really important.

50:15

How reliable am I? How do I show

50:17

appropriate honesty?

50:19

How do we respect each other? And how do we show appropriate

50:20

openness to each other?

50:24

Yes. So, And, and I think it's

50:24

practically, it starts

50:28

with those four words. And yes, we have a grid

50:30

for, you know, what are the

50:32

talking points for each one

50:32

of those shared some of them.

50:35

Now on, uh, you know, today

50:35

in this conversation, we

50:39

have a number of articles

50:39

on the website and we'll

50:41

share those as well in the

50:41

notes for this podcast.

50:44

Um, Of course, I mean, we, we,

50:44

we love working with teams and,

50:49

uh mm-hmm . We have both our

50:49

intercultural assessment, the

50:52

three colors of worldview, as

50:52

well as the 12 dimensions, the

50:55

cultural mapping inventory. We use those in those high

50:57

performing intercultural

51:00

team journeys. But if you just want to

51:02

read and, and use the

51:06

framework in the way that,

51:06

um, we unpacked it today.

51:10

Few articles on our website,

51:10

use what, what, what was

51:14

shared in this podcast,

51:14

and you can run with it.

51:16

Excellent.

51:18

And just to

51:18

review those four words one

51:20

more time, it's reliability,

51:20

honesty, respect, and openness.

51:24

Such good words, we should

51:24

memorize those and, and have

51:27

conversations around those. Thank you so much, Marco.

51:31

This has been so helpful. So good.

51:34

I, I mean, I, I of course

51:34

know you well, but listening

51:37

to you talk about trust in

51:37

this very concentrated manner

51:40

has, has been really helpful

51:40

for me and I'm sure for

51:44

everyone else. Su such an important

51:44

topic in our world.

51:47

We, you. I, I, sadly I can say that

51:48

the world is not doing such

51:52

a great job, at building

51:52

trust at the moment.

51:55

That's

51:55

very true.

51:56

Wow. But we all, within our own

51:57

circle of influence have the

52:00

opportunity to, to help lift

52:00

the level of trust around us.

52:04

So there's in, we can't just,

52:04

uh, look at the world and say,

52:09

oh, can't do anything about. On one hand that's true.

52:12

On the other hand, we have

52:12

relationships, we have job

52:16

situations, we have family

52:16

situations, friends, where

52:19

we can actually use these

52:19

principles and start elevating

52:23

the trust between us. So we all have a role to play.

52:26

I love that. I wanna do that. Yes.

52:30

, I wanna do that. Thank you, Marco.

52:32

Thank you so much.

52:33

Thank you so much, Charlotte. This was wonderful. Yes.

52:36

Really, really enjoyed this. Thanks.

52:42

Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of the

52:44

Cultural Agility Podcast.

52:47

If you enjoyed today's

52:47

episode, share it with someone.

52:51

The best way to help us out

52:51

is leaving a review on your

52:54

favorite podcast app or channel

52:54

or forward, and recommend this

52:58

podcast people around you. As always, if any of the topics

53:01

we discuss today, intrigue.

53:05

You'll find links to articles

53:05

discussing them in greater

53:08

depth in the podcast notes. If you would like to learn more

53:11

about intercultural intelligence

53:14

and how you can become more

53:14

culturally agile, you can find

53:17

more information and hundreds

53:17

of articles@knowledgeworks.com.

53:23

A special thanks to Jason

53:23

Carter for composing the

53:26

music on this podcast and

53:26

to the whole KnowledgeWorks

53:29

team for making this podcast. Success.

53:33

Thank you. Nita Rodriguez, ARA ra

53:33

Raj, and thanks to VIP and

53:39

George for audio production. Rosalyn Raj for scheduling

53:41

and ketra for marketing and

53:45

helping produce this podcast.