Brené interviews New York Times journalists Jennifer Valentino-DeVries and Michael H. Keller, who talk about their investigation into girl influencers and what's driving the larger influencer culture across social media. This is the fourth episode in our series on the possibilities and costs of living beyond human scale.

Please note: As part of this conversation, we talk about the pervasive sexualization of young girl influencers (and girls in general) and the predatory nature of the comments they receive online.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices