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of your first order with

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promo code untangle. Now

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onto our show. Welcome

2:15

to Untangle. I'm Patricia Karpus.

2:18

Today's Encore interview with Ariel,

2:20

interviewing behavior scientist and author

2:22

John Levy was taped during

2:24

COVID when our craving for

2:26

human connection just might have

2:29

been at an all time

2:31

high. We all crave human

2:33

connection, but it can be hard to know

2:35

how to make it. Shyness,

2:38

introversion, and back

2:40

then COVID protocols clearly got in

2:42

the way of fulfilling our need

2:44

and desire to connect. John

2:47

Levy outlines simple practical strategies everyone

2:49

can use to build trust and

2:51

deeper connections, whether it's for business

2:53

or to deepen your own personal

2:56

connections. As always, we're

2:58

Untangle, the podcast from Muse, the

3:00

brain sensing headband dedicated to unlocking

3:02

your brain's potential and

3:04

meditation studio, the five star app. Now

3:07

over to John. Hello

3:11

and welcome to another Untangle.

3:14

As we begin to open up, as the world

3:16

opens up, as people leave their homes and go

3:18

and connect with one another, the power of human

3:21

connection takes on a whole new meaning. Today,

3:23

we're going to examine an interesting

3:25

take on human connection. And how

3:27

we influence one another with my

3:29

friend and awesome guest, John Levy.

3:32

John is a behavioral scientist, best known for

3:34

his work on influence in human connection. He's

3:37

been able to connect and foster

3:39

meaningful relationships with people of all

3:41

domains, celebrities, royalty, noble laureates, and

3:44

then bring the links in this network together

3:46

in meaningful ways. John is here to share

3:48

his insights on human connection with us and

3:51

show us how to connect with anyone. Welcome,

3:54

John. Thanks for having me.

3:56

I'm super excited. That's my joy and pleasure

3:58

to have you here. And

10:00

it turns out that when we invest effort into one

10:02

another, we care more about each other.

10:05

That's why we care about our own children. Many

10:07

years in the making, tons of

10:10

effort, countless hours of un-thanked

10:12

labor, yes. Yeah, it's

10:14

amazing. And you talk to

10:16

parents and if they find out their kids were

10:18

switched at birth, they'd still love the ones they

10:20

raised. It's not like suddenly it gets shut off

10:23

because there's no genetic relationship. And that's what's amazing

10:25

about it is that human beings are wired to

10:27

care about what they invest effort into. And in

10:30

general, we have this view, and I'm not going

10:32

to say everybody, but a lot of people have

10:34

this view that, oh, I don't want to

10:36

bother somebody or I'm going to save

10:39

my favors for another day. And it turns

10:41

out that that's probably limiting or hindering our

10:43

relationships. Because if

10:46

I actually do you a favor, Ariel, it'll

10:49

turn out that I will view you as somebody worthy

10:51

of a favor and thereby care

10:53

more about you. And as long as

10:55

reciprocity exists, that's how relationships are formed.

10:57

So relationships are formed through the act

10:59

of doing, investing,

11:02

and caring. Now, in some ways,

11:04

that seems naturally

11:06

intuitive. How do we see

11:08

that play out in our lives? And how can we

11:10

actually allow ourselves to do more of that for the

11:12

people in our lives that we either know or we

11:15

don't yet know and want to know? So

11:17

I think there's a few things. First of

11:19

all, is to understand the actual mechanism. And

11:22

the mechanism is called

11:24

a vulnerability loop. And the way it works is,

11:27

let's say, I'm in Toronto, we're walking

11:29

down the street. And I

11:31

say, Oh, my God, I

11:34

am so stressed out. This book launch has

11:36

taken so much out of me. I

11:39

just don't even want to show up in front of my

11:41

computer anymore. In that moment, I

11:44

have expressed vulnerability, my stress and my

11:46

burnout. Now you have a

11:48

few options. If you ignore me or make

11:50

fun of me, then trust will be reduced. But

11:54

if you acknowledge that vulnerability signal I put

11:56

out, and then put out your

11:58

own, then you'll be able to do that. Like, John, I

12:00

know how you feel. When I

12:02

was first designing Muse, I was clocking in

12:05

so many hours. It was

12:07

completely overwhelming. That's what I'd answer.

12:09

My natural inclination is like, oh

12:12

my God, I know how you feel. I have been

12:14

so burnt out on product launches before, it's so hard.

12:17

Yeah, and in that moment

12:19

that you've demonstrated and signaled your vulnerability

12:21

back, then we both can acknowledge that

12:23

we're safe with each other at this

12:26

higher level of vulnerability. And

12:28

that's how trust is actually

12:30

formed. Trust does not precede

12:33

vulnerability. Vulnerability precedes trust. And

12:35

so when we're looking at

12:37

fostering relationships, it means a couple of things.

12:40

One is that we really want to be

12:42

on the lookout for when people

12:45

signal vulnerability so that we can complete

12:47

the loop and increase the

12:49

trusted relationship. The second is that

12:51

if we see that people aren't

12:53

signaling vulnerability, then it

12:55

might mean that we should. And I'm not

12:57

saying you have to like verbally vomit your

12:59

entire life story and all of the tragedies.

13:02

You can start off with something small, like

13:04

I'm super stressed this week. What

13:07

have you been doing to relax or unwind?

13:09

I could really use something good. And in

13:11

that moment when somebody

13:13

responds, then they're actually closing that

13:15

loop and trust is increased between the

13:17

two of you. Now this could also

13:19

be true at work. Asking somebody's advice is a

13:22

great way to show

13:24

that you acknowledge and respect them

13:26

and respect their view. And they'll actually end

13:29

up liking you more for asking them. So

13:32

I think that this mechanic of the vulnerability

13:34

loop is critical and it's

13:36

much, much, much easier when

13:39

we participate in activities that have

13:41

effort. So rather than meeting people

13:43

for like cocktails, going

13:45

on a hike together or doing a workout actually

13:48

provides more of an opportunity

13:50

to invest effort. It's

13:53

also a shared experience as opposed to

13:55

an interview. So these are all great

13:57

takeaways for the creation of great. connection.

14:00

So what I just heard is vulnerability.

14:03

You said something so profound, which is

14:05

that vulnerability precedes trust. So

14:07

most of us presume you need trust prior

14:09

to vulnerability and that trust makes it safe

14:11

to be vulnerable. And what we're

14:13

actually saying here is know you should take

14:15

the risk to be vulnerable. It can

14:18

be a calculated risk. Listen to

14:20

the response and that will let you know

14:22

if there is trust which will then enable

14:24

further vulnerability. And that

14:26

to be good friends and good listeners

14:28

and good partners, we should be very

14:31

carefully listening for our compatriots vulnerability signals.

14:33

Times when they might be throwing out

14:35

a white flag or throwing something over

14:37

the edge that we didn't catch and

14:40

it's in the matching and mirroring reciprocating of

14:42

that vulnerability that we deep in those relationships.

14:45

Perfect. The other thing I'd add

14:48

is that it might be

14:50

a risk or feel like a risk

14:52

to put ourselves out there and signal

14:54

vulnerability. The key in all

14:56

of this is to go

14:58

from small to large. So there's this

15:00

great study where people were stopped on

15:02

the street and asked for complex directions

15:05

and almost nobody gave it. Alright, unsurprising you're walking

15:07

through your days somebody stops you on the street,

15:10

you're in a rush, you won't. But

15:12

in another group people were

15:14

asked first the time and

15:17

then once the time was given

15:20

they were asked the directions and

15:22

predominantly they gave them. And here's what's

15:24

really interesting. You would expect that a

15:27

total greater investment of effort would actually

15:29

reduce the chances of

15:31

getting the directions. I just gave you the time.

15:33

Why are you asking me for something else? But

15:35

in fact once a small

15:38

amount of effort was put in you're

15:40

deemed as somebody worthy of more

15:42

effort. And so you don't

15:44

need to start off with something huge like

15:47

oh my god I'm thinking of getting a divorce. Like

15:51

slow down there champ. Let's start off

15:53

with the basics. Oh my god I

15:55

barely got any sleep last night. My

15:57

child was crying or they just got... ear

16:00

infection and I was up all night. And

16:02

that's like an easy one to start with and then go

16:04

from there as the relationship deepens.

16:07

Also, time helps a lot when

16:09

you have the privilege of it. Yeah, so hearing

16:11

this, there's a few things that come up in me.

16:14

One is not wanting to sound complaining.

16:17

I think we often have the desire to

16:19

make the person who we're with feel

16:21

good about being with us by not complaining,

16:24

not catching, not wanting to be too heavy.

16:26

I guess what you're suggesting is that there's

16:28

a balance here. I think

16:30

that we can separate two things. There's

16:34

a separation between something that

16:36

is a complaint. And let's

16:39

be honest with our closest friends, there aren't

16:41

many people I can complain to and just

16:43

like vent. And sometimes venting

16:45

is really helpful. Being heard

16:47

is a pretty wonderful experience, especially

16:50

when you're struggling and

16:53

you're tired and you're worn out. So occasional

16:56

venting is fine. I think

16:58

it's very healthy. But there's also a

17:00

difference between venting and trying to progress

17:02

a conversation. So me

17:05

saying, Hey, Ariel, I know

17:07

you have, I don't have any children,

17:09

but if I was going

17:11

to get, I feel totally overwhelmed by the idea

17:13

of having children, what are like three

17:16

things that I should be doing to prepare? And

17:18

in that moment, I've signaled a vulnerability loop, but

17:20

it wasn't a complaint. It was me expressing

17:22

that I'm scared or anxious about something,

17:25

but it was also progressing the conversation forward. Yeah,

17:28

that was actually a beautiful conversation

17:30

progression. Signal your concern, appeal

17:33

to the other's insights with a very

17:35

specific ask that's easy to action on

17:37

potentially and can move forward. Very

17:40

nicely done behavioral scientist. Thank you. Thank

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you. We'll take a short break for

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back to our show. The

18:36

other thing that I heard from you is

18:38

the value of investing effort into

18:40

a relationship. And that's so interesting because

18:42

we tend to think about doing something

18:44

fun together is valuable, which it

18:47

really is being in joy with

18:49

one another is incredibly bonding, but

18:51

also inviting your friend over to help you

18:54

garden or to build something

18:56

together or to paint that fence

18:59

or take care of your kids together or

19:01

whatever it is, it seems also has a

19:03

value that's often overlooked and that we're typically

19:05

very scared to ask for. It's

19:07

interesting. One of the reasons that we've

19:10

maintained a friendship just so that the

19:12

listeners are aware is that 12 years

19:15

ago or so, I started a secret

19:17

dining experience where 12 people

19:20

are invited often to my home

19:22

to cook me dinner, wash my dishes, clean my

19:24

floors. And the weirdest thing is they thank me

19:27

for it. And I know

19:30

it sounds completely ridiculous, but

19:32

when these people come over, they can't even talk about

19:34

what they do or give their last name. They

19:37

prepare this meal together. And when they sit down to eat,

19:39

everybody guesses what everybody else does. And

19:42

they find out as Ariel, you

19:44

mentioned earlier, they're Nobel laureates, Olympians, editors

19:46

and chiefs, celebrities. And

19:49

I've hosted over 2000 people over the years.

19:52

And people often wonder

19:54

how it works so well. And

19:56

the answer is that the reason

19:59

people actually buy. is because

20:01

they're cooking together. It's not the

20:03

eating of the meal that matters. The food is terrible.

20:09

It's a really bad burrito. Yeah, thank you

20:11

for your honesty, Ariel. I'm very appreciative. Being

20:14

vulnerable here. But yeah, the experience was

20:16

incredible. We had a famous journalist

20:18

come one time and she said, I was expecting

20:20

a phenomenal meal in decent company. I

20:22

got the exact opposite. And

20:24

so when we really understand

20:26

what forges relationships, it's

20:28

going to be this shared

20:31

effort. And when two people are

20:33

cooking together or gardening together or

20:35

painting an art project or knitting,

20:38

whatever it is, then a

20:40

few things happen. The first is that IKEA

20:42

effect. We end up caring about each

20:44

other more. But also, let's

20:47

say you're more introverted and

20:49

you don't really want to

20:51

continue talking constantly. The

20:53

activity itself carries the weight

20:56

for the conversation. So

20:59

if we're cooking together, there's sometimes when I'm asking

21:01

for pass me a knife, pass me, I don't

21:03

know, a pan. And each

21:05

time I do something like that, it opens and

21:07

closes a vulnerability loop really quickly. How

21:10

can you do this? Can you do that? The

21:12

second thing is that we'll have a conversation.

21:15

And if we run out of things to say, then we

21:17

just focus on the cooking. And so it takes the pressure

21:19

off. It makes it less awkward

21:21

to make friends with new people. And

21:24

if you look from an anthropological

21:26

perspective, we evolved in groups that

21:28

hunted and gathered. And so

21:31

the way that the community bonded was

21:33

that it would work together. Now, we don't

21:36

live in those types of communities anymore, which

21:38

means that we just have to be

21:40

a lot more intentional about the kinds

21:42

of activities that we do to ensure that

21:45

we can have that level of social

21:47

integration where people feel connected to one another.

21:49

A great example of this is I

21:51

have a friend, Daniel, who runs a group called

21:53

Urban Sherpas. And several

21:56

times throughout the year, they will

21:59

send an email to people. saying we're doing a

22:01

walk. And they'll just pick

22:03

a wild path. They'll say we're walking around

22:05

all of Manhattan, the island, or

22:07

we're walking across three bridges today. It's

22:10

several miles. And people come

22:12

and they chat and some people walk alone for

22:14

a bit and then they join a group and

22:16

join the conversation. But it's like 50 people and

22:19

it's a really healthy activity. It's

22:21

not just gorging on

22:23

food. It's bonding with people

22:26

while doing something novel and different. It

22:28

also brings up why the idea of volunteerism

22:30

is so important because you

22:32

are integrated with a group of people

22:35

doing something in service of another who

22:37

you now care more for because you've

22:39

invested into it. That's part of a

22:41

larger community structure and organization. I think

22:44

volunteer work is great. I wish that part

22:46

of American culture was to have a service

22:49

here, a understanding that there's

22:51

this expectation to give back to

22:53

the community and to really see

22:55

given people as an opportunity to

22:57

explore options before investing into

23:00

the incredibly expensive process of university. At

23:02

least in the US, it's very expensive.

23:04

So yeah, I love these ideas. I

23:06

think that the

23:08

more that we have an

23:10

opportunity for shared activities, the better

23:12

we are. And if we

23:15

look, people often like to complain about social

23:17

media, that it's making people insecure and all

23:19

that kind of stuff. I'm sure all that's

23:21

true. The closest we've been able

23:23

to find it in the research is that if

23:26

somebody's spending six hours on social media,

23:29

they're not spending six hours doing something

23:31

else like participating in a soccer team

23:33

or a debate team or

23:35

some kind of AV club or something like

23:37

that. And that's potentially what the real loss

23:39

is. It's that the

23:42

pro-social behavior that teaches us social

23:44

skills and that gives us a sense

23:47

of belonging begins to disappear. What

23:49

do you recommend for someone who is

23:51

shy? There are lots of people for

23:54

whom any of these suggestions sound slightly

23:56

terrifying. The idea of signing up

23:58

for a soccer team and showing up. with

24:00

a bunch of people you've never known, with

24:02

skills that you're not quite sure that you

24:05

have just seems mortifying. How

24:07

can we create a sense of safety for

24:09

somebody who is not comfortable in this domain?

24:12

So I think that there's a few things. The

24:14

first is to understand

24:16

that there's a difference between shyness

24:18

and introversion. So shyness is

24:20

a fear of social judgment. I grew up

24:23

a pretty shy kid, but I'm

24:25

an extrovert by the traditional

24:27

model. So what

24:29

does that look like? It means that I

24:32

would want to be around other

24:34

people, but I'd be so scared of social

24:36

judgment that I wouldn't actually do

24:38

anything. Oh, my heart is breaking. It's

24:41

the worst of all worlds. Don't worry,

24:43

it works out. Spoiler

24:45

alert. Okay, I'm waiting. Introversion,

24:48

and I'll be honest, I'm not 100% sold

24:51

on the traditional definition of introversion. But

24:53

I would say that introversion seems

24:55

to have to do with the

24:57

scale, meaning the number of people that

25:00

you come in contact with, and

25:02

for how long, it's enjoyable. So

25:05

for some people, it might be at the scale

25:07

of I really enjoy being around five, but not

25:09

10 people. And my ideal length of time is

25:11

like two hours, and then I'd be happy reading

25:13

books for the rest of the day, or doing

25:16

my work. So extroverts might say,

25:18

oh, I'm happiest when there's like 100 people

25:20

around me, and it's a wild party, whatever

25:22

it is. So the

25:24

big thing about shyness is that it's

25:27

muscle that we have to develop, so

25:29

that we just feel more comfortable. And

25:32

for this, I'd recommend what's called

25:34

like a flywheel effect or the

25:36

winner effect. It turns out that

25:38

mammals, I'm not sure if it's

25:40

all mammals, have this characteristic that

25:42

when we experience a win, we

25:45

flood with testosterone, which

25:47

actually makes it more likely that we will

25:49

win our next, let's say, fight or battle

25:52

or challenge and be more confident.

25:55

The problem is that if this loop

25:57

continues too much, an animal in nature

25:59

will be overly confident and

26:02

then end up dying in a

26:04

fight or being out in the open and being hunted.

26:07

So the key here is that we

26:10

want to experience a few wins so that it

26:12

builds up our confidence. And

26:14

so my view is nobody says

26:16

you need to go to an experience with 400 people at

26:18

it or join a

26:20

soccer club or something like that. You

26:23

can start off with small little things like doing

26:26

some volunteer work at your local religious

26:28

institution and clock in a couple hours

26:30

and just meet one or two people

26:32

and build up your confidence over time.

26:35

Everybody wants to change overnight but that's

26:37

not realistic. It's also not

26:40

healthy because the moment something goes

26:42

wrong at a large scale, you

26:45

don't want to participate anymore. So

26:47

the key is to build up that muscle and

26:50

that means finding the right environment. So here's a

26:52

few things you can do. One is meetup.com

26:55

has tons and tons of meetups

26:58

that are community-based activities.

27:01

And you can find the things that are

27:03

most appealing to you in terms of topic and

27:06

in terms of style. The second

27:08

is there's digital events that

27:10

you can practice at like

27:12

a creative mornings that brings hundreds of people

27:15

on but you don't necessarily have

27:17

to turn your camera on. So first, just

27:19

come and participate, get to enjoy

27:21

the programming and then maybe if there are breakout

27:23

rooms, you'll get to meet four or five people

27:26

and if it's around an activity, it'll probably feel a

27:28

lot better than if it's

27:31

just five people in a Zoom room interviewing

27:33

one another. But the key is to start

27:35

small and allow yourself time to progress. You

27:37

don't want to just say, okay, tomorrow I'm

27:39

going to hang out with 50 people and

27:42

be completely overwhelmed. I love

27:44

those recommendations. meetup.com is a great

27:46

one. When I look

27:48

at the question of shyness, I'm also

27:50

going to look at it from a

27:53

different direction, which is the thoughts that

27:55

you have in your head that don't

27:57

necessarily align with reality. So here's the

27:59

meditation. hat comes in. We're used

28:01

to going into an experience, feeling a sense of

28:03

fear because we're shy, and then having it create

28:06

a bunch of thoughts in our head like, oh

28:08

no this is gonna be terrible, which then ramp

28:10

up the feelings in your body. And it's often

28:12

the thought that you have in your head at

28:15

the beginning that makes it so bad for you.

28:18

So let's just take an example. You've

28:20

got a room full of people and

28:22

you walk into that room thinking, oh no,

28:26

people here are not gonna like me. So

28:28

how do you walk in? John, what would your

28:30

posture be like if you walked in thinking people weren't gonna like you?

28:33

I'd look defeated. Yep. Would you

28:35

go up to chat with people? Probably

28:38

not. If I could find somebody I'd know,

28:40

I'd try to hide near them to

28:43

feel safe. And other than that,

28:45

no. Yeah, would people talk to you?

28:48

Maybe like the extreme networker who's just trying to

28:50

find out if they could do business with me.

28:52

Yeah, so basically probably not because you've got all

28:54

these physiological signals that we as humans are good

28:56

at reading saying, don't talk to me, I don't

28:59

want to be here. You're like, okay man, I'll

29:01

just leave you alone, I'll get it. And

29:03

you'd walk out of the experience with what thought confirmed

29:05

in your head? That nobody likes me, nobody wants to

29:08

talk to me, and I'm a loser. But

29:10

that's just me. That's anybody

29:12

who walks in with the same thought in

29:15

their head. Let's switch the situation. Exact same

29:17

situation, we're just gonna switch the thought in

29:19

your head. You walk into the same room

29:21

with people with the thought in your head.

29:24

These are all great people who are fun

29:26

to talk to. How would you

29:28

walk in? Super excited

29:30

to enter any conversation because it'll be

29:32

a blast. Yeah, who would you

29:34

talk to? Anyone and everyone. Yeah, how

29:36

would they talk to you? Like

29:39

I'm a joyous, fun human being. What

29:41

information would you leave with? What thought in your

29:44

head? What confirmation? These people are

29:46

amazing and I can't wait to come back. Yeah,

29:48

what was the absolute only difference in these two scenes?

29:50

The context that I entered in. Yeah,

29:52

the thought in your head. And

29:54

then the physiological experience that that thought created

29:57

for you. And then the more

29:59

thoughts that were created based on the experience that

30:01

you went in with. So

30:03

this is where practices like meditation really

30:05

come into play, where you're able to

30:07

examine your own thoughts, really

30:10

ask yourself, is this true? Is

30:12

this real? Is this the

30:14

reality? Divorce the fly forward

30:16

that we tend to have from thought feeling, thought

30:18

feeling. This is going to be awful. Oh, no,

30:20

I feel awful. Therefore, it is awful. Oh, yes,

30:22

it's awful. And then retrain how

30:24

we go into it. So

30:26

I love your idea of starting off slow.

30:28

That's absolutely key. Baby steps to try it.

30:30

But also look at your own piece of

30:32

the puzzle here, because I'm somebody who tends

30:34

to think that people are great. And so

30:36

I have great experiences with people. But

30:39

it seems to me that most people in

30:41

the world that you come across on a

30:43

daily basis are actually

30:45

great people who just want to

30:48

be nice to you and often are just super shy themselves.

30:50

And so they're awkward and they don't know how to, kind

30:53

of scared to, but they really want

30:55

to be good people. There are two

30:57

super fun studies that I think you'll get a

30:59

kick out of. One was done

31:01

by the Israeli Defense Forces. Not sure if

31:03

you've come across this, but

31:06

commanders were given new teams to

31:08

train and where people

31:10

had taken an aptitude test in

31:12

order to enter these units. And

31:15

commanders were told that these were like the

31:17

top performers. And they then

31:20

unsurprisingly, the team became an elite

31:22

unit that performed or outperformed any

31:24

expectations. The interesting thing is that

31:26

this was research being

31:29

done on leadership training. And

31:31

the participants that were

31:34

put into the quote unquote elite group were

31:36

selected at random. So there was

31:39

no actual evidence whatsoever that any of these

31:41

soldiers were special in any way, except

31:43

for the commanders were told that

31:45

they were elite. And

31:48

as a byproduct, they trained them

31:50

differently and they became elite. So

31:52

expectations have huge impact on people's, on

31:54

the way that they appear and the

31:57

way that they perform. The other one

31:59

is... Have you ever talked about

32:01

the spotlight effect? No, go for it. This

32:04

was a study done, I don't remember

32:06

which university, students were asked to

32:08

come in for a leadership

32:10

or like a research on team or group

32:12

building or something like that, except

32:15

one student was asked to come in early. And

32:18

this student, each time the experiment was

32:20

run, was given a t-shirt to put

32:22

on before they entered. And

32:25

at the time when the study was done, the

32:27

most embarrassing person in American culture was Barry Manilow.

32:31

So they put on a Barry Manilow t-shirt and

32:34

then entered the group and

32:37

they interacted with everybody. And

32:39

afterwards the person was interviewed

32:41

and said, oh, do you think

32:44

anybody noticed your shirt? And they're like, yeah, I bet

32:46

like at least half the people noticed. And

32:48

then they actually interviewed the people. And

32:50

I think it was like a quarter of people noticed

32:52

and nobody actually cared because everybody's too

32:55

busy thinking about themselves. So

32:58

they then repeated the experiment with

33:01

a really cool t-shirt. And at the time that

33:03

was either Jerry Seinfeld or Biggie Smalls.

33:06

And once again, people assumed that

33:08

about half of the group actually noticed and

33:10

only a quarter did and nobody actually

33:13

cares. And the

33:15

experiment essentially shows that when

33:17

we think that there's a spotlight on something, most

33:20

people just don't notice it and just don't care.

33:22

So when I was a teenager, I was worried

33:24

that people would notice my pimple or something like

33:26

that. The only person who cares is me.

33:29

And so nobody is paying any

33:31

attention to us when it comes to either of

33:33

these things. So we might as well enjoy

33:36

ourselves and not take things so

33:38

seriously. So on that note, we

33:41

have a number of amazing techniques and

33:43

mindsets for great connection, the ability

33:46

to be vulnerable, to take the risk to

33:48

do so, doing things

33:50

together, recognizing that you

33:52

probably are going to have

33:54

a good time if you simply allow yourself to,

33:56

that the thoughts that you have in your head

33:59

about what's wrong. with you, nobody

34:01

else has in their head. And

34:03

if we take the small risks bit

34:05

by bit to go out and engage, we're

34:07

going to get reward. And what do you

34:09

say to those who are extroverts and to

34:11

those who are not scared of this and

34:13

to those who just can't wait to dive

34:15

into life and connection again? How

34:17

can they make their experience better and others

34:20

experiences better and even deeper in their connection?

34:23

So the first is to remember that not

34:25

everybody is necessarily going

34:27

to be as comfortable or excited

34:30

to meet at scale. So go

34:32

easy on people. I know that

34:34

all I want to do is have like 4,000 of

34:36

my closest friends hang out at a party. And

34:38

that's not necessarily what other people want to do.

34:41

The second is that people who tend to have

34:43

a lot of friends tend to make more friends.

34:46

People who are lonely and isolated have

34:48

a tendency to become more lonely and isolated. So

34:52

if you're the type of person who is

34:54

constantly gathering and inviting people, think

34:57

about that friend is or

35:00

friends who maybe aren't

35:02

getting out as much and invite

35:05

them to come and join you. And also

35:07

whatever it is that you do, do something

35:09

that will work at kind of any scale,

35:11

meaning that a party is

35:13

awesome and that's great and people I'm sure are excited to

35:15

drink. But it's also

35:17

nice to invite people to go take a walk or

35:19

to take a pink class or

35:21

something like that. Because if

35:24

we don't get people who are lonely out of

35:26

their house and remembering how lovely it is to

35:29

be around other human beings, my concern

35:31

is that they'll just get lonelier. Oh, thank

35:33

you so much for that sage and poignant

35:35

reminder. And on that note, you

35:37

actually have an amazing book actually

35:40

called You're Invited. Y-O-U, apostrophe

35:42

RE, You're Invited. And it

35:45

is available now on all

35:47

your favorite booksellers. John,

35:49

do you have a website associated with the

35:52

book? You're invited.info and you can find it

35:54

on all my socials of John

35:56

J. O. N. Levy, L-E-V-Y, T like

35:59

Thomas. like Lion, Be Like Boy, John

36:01

Levy, TLB, across all the social

36:03

platforms. And I'm not sure if you know

36:05

this yet, Ariel. We found out that it debuted as

36:07

number two on The Wall Street Journal. Amazing.

36:10

Congratulations. Thank you very

36:12

much. Yeah, I'm super, super proud

36:14

of it. And it's been an

36:17

incredible experience putting it together. It's

36:20

amazing. I've been watching this book

36:22

be put together through your experiences

36:24

that you've been creating and curating.

36:26

And it's fantastic. It's You're Invited,

36:28

The Art and Science of Cultivating

36:30

Influence. So thank you very

36:32

much, John, for being here with us today

36:34

and sharing your insight about how to gain greater

36:37

connection. And thank you for all the good

36:39

work that you do in the world. This

36:42

has been an absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me on. That

36:46

was the wonderful John Levy. His

36:49

new book, You're Invited, is available

36:52

on all your favorite booksellers.

36:55

You can find his

36:58

website, www.you'reinvited.info or johnlevy.com.

37:10

Proud that his book made it to

37:12

The Wall Street Journal number two bestseller.

37:15

Hopefully these tools and techniques that you've learned today

37:17

will be helpful to you in creating more connection

37:19

in your life. And if you

37:22

want additional resources, you've always got Muse,

37:24

the brain sensing headband that helps you

37:26

meditate and sleep in order

37:29

to give you more insight into the

37:31

workings of your own mind and teach

37:33

you the tools and techniques of mindfulness

37:35

to help calm your reactivity, to help

37:37

observe your thoughts and be able to

37:40

choose better actions as you go into

37:42

the world. Muse, the

37:44

brain sensing headband can be found

37:46

at choosemuse.com. It gives

37:48

you real time feedback on your brain during

37:50

meditation to help you start or enhance the

37:53

practice. It's been used in over 200 research

37:55

studies, demonstrating its ability

37:57

to either kickstart or

37:59

hyper-pitch.