Hugo speaks with Peter Wang, CEO of Anaconda, about what the value proposition of data science actually is, data not as the new oil, but rather data as toxic, nuclear sludge, the fact that data isn’t real (and what we really have are frozen models), and the future promise of data science.They also dive into an experimental conversation around open source software development as a model for the development of human civilization, in the context of developing systems that prize local generativity over global extractive principles. If that’s a mouthful, which it was, or an earful, which it may have been, all will be revealed in the conversation.LInksPeter on twitter (https://twitter.com/pwang)Anaconda Nucleus (https://anaconda.cloud/)Jordan Hall on the Jim Rutt Show (https://www.jimruttshow.com/jordan-greenhall-hall/): Game BMeditations On Moloch (https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch) -- On multipolar trapsHere Comes Everybody: The Power of Organizing Without Organizations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_Comes_Everybody_(book)) by Clay ShirkyFinite and Infinite Games (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finite_and_Infinite_Games) by James CarseGoverning the Commons: The Evolution of Institutions for Collective Action (https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/governing-the-commons/7AB7AE11BADA84409C34815CC288CD79) by Elinor OlstromElinor Ostrom's 8 Principles for Managing A Commmons (https://www.onthecommons.org/magazine/elinor-ostroms-8-principles-managing-commmons)Haunted by Data (https://idlewords.com/talks/haunted_by_data.htm), a beautiful and mesmerising talk by Pinboard.in founder Maciej Ceglowski