0:02

It's February 1945 and

0:04

the Second World War is still raging in

0:07

Europe. But hundreds of thousands of troops,

0:09

thousands of miles away from home, have

0:11

been denied the one thing that will keep

0:14

their morale high. Their letters

0:16

and packages from loved ones back

0:18

home. Where is all this mail? Well,

0:20

it's in Birmingham, England, where warehouses

0:23

are stuffed full of millions of

0:25

pieces of mail intended for members

0:27

of the US military, US government and

0:29

Red Cross who are serving in the European

0:32

theatre.

0:32

With no spare military

0:34

personnel in Europe to sort the issue,

0:37

how can it be resolved? I'm

0:39

your host James Patton Rogers, this is Warfare

0:42

and today's episode is dedicated to

0:44

the women of the 6888th Central

0:47

Postal Directory Battalion, nicknamed

0:49

the 6888. Braving close

0:51

encounters with German U-Boats as they

0:53

crossed the Atlantic from the United States

0:56

and V-1 rockets when they finally got

0:58

to the UK, this battalion of all-female,

1:01

predominantly black service personnel lived

1:04

by the motto of No Mail, Low

1:06

Morale and sorted 17 million

1:09

pieces to bring hope and a little

1:11

bit of home to those on the front line.

1:14

To help us explore this history I'm joined by

1:16

retired US Navy Commander Carlton

1:19

G. Philpott. Carlton helped preserve

1:21

the history of the 6888 pioneering

1:23

memorial projects at the Buffalo Soldier

1:25

Memorial Park on Fort Leavenworth,

1:28

Kansas. Commander Philpott has spearheaded

1:30

eight monumental projects,

1:32

all of which are dedicated to the significant

1:35

heroic contribution made by black

1:37

American military individuals and units.

1:40

As a note to you all, due to the historical

1:42

period and historical prejudice that we

1:44

discuss, this episode contains highly

1:47

offensive racist language and events.

1:50

But it is an important a

1:53

vital history, one that

1:55

I know you'll find fascinating.

2:03

Commander Philpott, welcome to the

2:05

Warfare podcast. It is great to have

2:07

you here and thank you so much for taking the

2:09

time to come on the podcast and talk about this

2:12

important history and it's a special time at

2:14

the moment. There was an announcement recently, a rather special

2:16

announcement, that the famous writer and director Tyler

2:19

Perry has decided to produce a new

2:21

film, the 6-triple-8, which

2:23

tells the largely marginalised history

2:26

of the Second World Wars, almost all black, all

2:28

female, battalion. It's going to be starring

2:31

Kerry Washington and Oprah Winfrey, but

2:33

this is something that isn't a new

2:35

interest to you, Commander Philpott. This is something you've been working

2:38

on for a very long time.

2:40

So tell us, when did you first find

2:43

out about, get interested in the 6-triple-8?

2:45

Before we start, let's correct something. For so long

2:48

we said it was an all-black unit. It

2:50

was not. It

2:51

was a multi-ethnic

2:53

group of women and some

2:55

people do not want to change that phrase

2:57

all black. And it

2:59

is Mexican, Puerto

3:01

Rican, and one lady has

3:05

Austrian heritage. Her

3:07

mother was from Austria and her father was that

3:09

black. And so that's

3:11

the truth. When you start uncovering things, you find

3:14

things that you don't want to, may not be

3:16

accustomed to. And

3:19

New York, late 1930s and

3:22

early 1940s, had the largest population of Puerto

3:24

Rican immigrants and about 100 of

3:26

the members of the 855 came

3:29

from New York. And the second oldest

3:31

living one, 102 prior to first

3:34

class were Cynthia Garcia, as Puerto Rican.

3:37

And so I want to make sure that it's clear and

3:39

repeated as often as I can. Too

3:42

often, especially African American

3:45

history, is often written

3:48

by historians and told by storytellers,

3:51

written with an invisible ache and

3:54

left out and oftentimes incorrect.

3:58

So that's good to have and I'm proud to say. that

4:00

we have these ethnic groups and all of them should be recognized

4:02

and give them credit. I got involved

4:05

with building monuments, I put it,

4:07

by accident. The Navy sent

4:10

me out to Fort Leavenworth. I

4:12

knew my career, active Navy career,

4:14

basically, for getting promotion was over with. And

4:17

luckily I got stumped into the Buffalo Soldier

4:19

Project that General Powell did, originated in the early

4:21

1980s. When

4:23

I got here in 1989, it was still

4:26

ongoing, and we were able to get

4:28

a lot of help.

4:30

We rejuvenated. And so after

4:32

we finished, we got a Buffalo Soldier

4:34

stamp. So after we finished the stamp

4:36

project for the Buffalo Soldiers, I heard about these group

4:38

of women downtown in Kansas City, Missouri.

4:41

So I went down,

4:43

and now I know that they've had a social

4:45

hour. Now I know that the lady

4:47

I talked to

4:49

was Abi Noel Campbell,

4:51

the executive officer and friend of Charity Adams,

4:53

the commanding officer. And she

4:55

told me the story. And I said, well, somebody ought to build a monument

4:58

to you guys.

4:59

I don't know what year it was.

5:01

It was not until 2014 I actually

5:04

got involved, and

5:06

we decided to focus on the 688.

5:09

And all the things fell into place. And

5:11

that's how the project started. And once

5:13

it started, it just flowed really easy.

5:16

The biggest challenge of the 688 was

5:18

that no one knew about it.

5:20

The only definitive book that

5:22

had been written about the 688 was

5:25

by Dr. Brenda Moore. It

5:27

was from a sociology perspective.

5:30

And it was very detailed, and she had a chance to

5:32

talk to the women when they were much younger.

5:34

Well, it's amazing. But

5:37

tell us, take us into some details about

5:39

the 688 themselves. So this was the

5:41

central postal directory.

5:44

When were they formed, and for what purpose?

5:47

They were authorized in November 1944.

5:51

And they came from about

5:52

over nearly 40 different locations,

5:55

military bases in the country.

5:58

Many people say it was an all-volunteer.

5:59

force. Everybody in the

6:02

WAC was volunteers, but

6:05

they were trying to recruit and they were having problems

6:07

recruiting period

6:09

and the goal was to get 10% of

6:11

the army as WACs.

6:13

And same thing for the

6:16

blacks.

6:17

Dr. Mary McLeod-Bathoon and the

6:20

Civil Rights Organization came up with it. They

6:22

called 10%ers. 10%

6:23

of the

6:25

government employees, 10% of the military, 10%

6:28

of the officers.

6:30

So out of those 6,500 blacks and women in the entire military

6:34

from various sources and that type

6:36

of thing,

6:37

they came down Fort Overthought,

6:39

Georgia, about 700 of

6:41

them, a little over 700 of them, the screening,

6:45

battle training, like how to put your battle gear

6:47

on, how you climb a rope and those types

6:49

of things, use a gas mask, plus

6:51

screening them for overseas duty. That

6:54

was around November or December of 1944.

6:58

They stayed there for training and

7:00

it was a difficult time. These women endured a lot

7:03

of racial and gender discrimination

7:05

before they came in, after they

7:08

came in, and once they got out. But

7:10

the commanding officer, Fort Overthought, Georgia,

7:13

on the southern border of Tennessee, told

7:15

the ladies, if you go out of town,

7:17

you go out of town at your own risk. I can't

7:20

protect you from what they're going to do to you. And

7:22

so around late January, early

7:25

February 1945, they

7:28

left by train from Fort Overthought,

7:30

Georgia,

7:31

to go to Fort Shanks, New York. Was

7:34

there a big change in the way in which they were treated

7:36

from that point? Of course, when we're talking about Georgia, we're

7:38

talking about more towards the south of the United

7:41

States. We know during this time that there was

7:43

a lot of discrimination against those

7:45

who took upon the uniform, the United

7:47

States military uniform. We know that there were racist

7:50

terror lynchings during this period and those who returned

7:53

from conflict after the Second World War

7:55

were also targeted down in

7:57

the south. So was there a change in the treatment?

8:00

of the women of the 688 when they moved up to New

8:02

York. They

8:03

only spent about a night in New York. Let

8:05

me back up a minute. When they authorized women

8:07

to join and black women also, the

8:10

recruiting station made it very difficult

8:12

for them to join. They'd go one

8:14

location, they'd send them across town, they'd close

8:16

the door, and those types of things.

8:19

And once they got recruited,

8:21

I think one or two would kill. They

8:23

were traveling to train in uniform. They

8:26

were mistreated. Even when I came home in 1970 with my

8:28

uniform, Officer

8:30

Candidate School was late at the airport

8:32

council. I got a boy out here that wants a tuna sandwich.

8:35

And so I've had my problems with nothing like the

8:37

women. And so they, as

8:40

they travel around the country, some people honor

8:42

them or salute them. I experienced

8:44

the same thing. A lot of black officers did. So those

8:46

things happened. Right. I see.

8:48

So their trip up to New York was ready to get them to the

8:51

port and then take that arduous,

8:53

perilous journey across the

8:56

Atlantic. According

8:58

to the manifest that was 738 on

9:00

board, and you'll see different

9:03

dates for departure.

9:05

They boarded the ship on 3 February.

9:08

I think the ship manifested it departed

9:10

New York on the 4th.

9:13

That's how ships do. An onboard ship you

9:15

may board the night, but you don't leave tomorrow and the log

9:17

will show for February. So

9:19

across the Atlantic,

9:21

all Navy ships, not just the Ilbeflührer,

9:24

zigzag to

9:26

avoid the German submarines. The many ships

9:28

were destroyed. And

9:31

as I talked to the latest, some guys see sick

9:34

and they first landed a little over 3000

9:36

miles. They landed in Glasgow,

9:38

Scotland. From there, they

9:40

loaded a train to go to Birmingham.

9:44

And they got off the ships. Some type

9:46

of bomb exploded near the ship, but never

9:48

in danger with them. They got a photo of them

9:50

with a battle gear, getting off the ship, helmets

9:52

and everything, getting off the ship. And

9:55

I imagine for them, it's very harrowing, frightening,

9:58

since they had never been overseas like they look.

9:59

lot of them didn't want to go overseas.

10:02

And so they landed in Birmingham later in

10:04

the afternoon on the 12th of February. As a matter of fact,

10:06

they went to the boy's school, which was not

10:08

a former boy's school, King Edward's

10:10

boy's school. And it was not

10:13

a very nice place to run down

10:15

so they had to fix up mattresses with

10:17

straws and those types of things. And

10:20

on the 15th of February, they had their first

10:22

inspection. That's the most popular picture

10:24

that you see with Charity Adams in the

10:26

front and a lady behind her.

10:28

And just for the record,

10:30

there were three

10:32

predominant black poster units, 688

10:35

and 2, the

10:37

32nd and the 3rd that were sent to Fort

10:39

Wachuca, Arizona. That

10:41

was a location that many black troops were

10:44

sent to at that particular time, the Buffalo

10:46

Soldiers and etc. And we explained

10:48

the name poster battalion. It took me a while

10:50

to understand that. Center

10:53

directory,

10:55

like a phone book,

10:57

each time a person changed locations,

10:59

surveyed in a military, they

11:02

submitted a change of location cards. Just

11:05

like you, Rogers, if you went change address,

11:08

you would change the location card to the post

11:11

office. You have to remember that

11:13

directory has been building for over two to three years.

11:16

And there was almost seven million

11:18

names in that directory. And as

11:20

Charity Adams says in her book, there

11:23

were thousands and thousands of duplicate

11:26

names. So it's not seven million people

11:29

that the 688

11:30

hammer mailed for. It was much

11:32

more than that. They were getting mail still

11:35

coming in from the states as well. The sort

11:37

of mail has been backlogged. Additionally,

11:40

they often say that they sorted the

11:42

mail for the troops. When you say troops, you're often

11:44

talking about army. They

11:46

did it for all of the military units, civilians,

11:49

technicians, and government

11:51

employees in their age. So it wasn't just army

11:53

that they sorted the mail for.

11:57

That's how they got started. That's when they

11:59

got in England. and so

12:01

they're ready to go. And the months

12:03

of January and February, they were spent

12:05

getting organized and purging

12:08

the list of duplicate names.

12:10

Some names did not even have serial

12:12

numbers on them. There's four

12:14

names, just Bubba, something of a nickname.

12:17

And then they had about 7,500 that had Robert

12:19

Smith or derivations

12:21

of Robert Smith. So using the service

12:24

numbers on the change of location cards, they

12:26

spent a lot of time dealing with that. I

12:29

can only imagine there's so many Robert Smiths

12:31

in the UK. I'm sure it's a very long

12:33

time to try and sort through that. And so they came

12:36

into Birmingham towards the end of the

12:38

war in Europe. And so actually,

12:40

hopefully, the damage, death and destruction

12:43

had abated a little bit by then and it

12:45

wouldn't have been so bad. And there wouldn't

12:47

have been so many scenes of death and destruction, but

12:49

I'm sure that the living conditions were

12:51

pretty rough. And the job that they were put

12:53

to was very hard. It was a seven

12:56

day a week job working,

12:59

I believe, was it three eight hour

13:01

shifts?

13:02

Yes, the army

13:04

gave them

13:06

six months to clear the backlog

13:08

of mail.

13:09

Now I'm talking about mail still coming in. They had other

13:12

postal units over there. Let me give you an idea.

13:15

We have a photograph of a six

13:18

or eight lady

13:19

sitting on top of a stack of mail

13:21

with large mail bags, not the one

13:23

that the postal carrier puts on his shoulder,

13:26

large mail bags,

13:28

stacked from the floor to the ceiling

13:30

and charity items there was six of those

13:32

aircraft size warehouses. So

13:35

let me try to relate that to your listeners and

13:37

viewers.

13:38

Imagine six super Walmart

13:40

stores. Right, yes, they are pretty big kind

13:44

of supermarket warehouses, aren't they?

13:47

And so imagine that's

13:49

on the floor to ceiling and you can see the lady at the

13:51

top and you can see the black curtains

13:54

over the windows to keep the aircraft from seeing them work

13:56

at night. And in talking with the ladies,

13:58

most of them work more than eight hours.

13:59

hours a day.

14:01

In January the numbers that they saw

14:03

it was relatively low.

14:05

I think I saw on the back of the card less

14:08

than 40,000 but working

14:10

those days they saw that 65,000 estimate 65,000

14:15

average per eight hour

14:17

shift. And if you did three

14:20

shifts a day that's 195,000. Now you multiply that

14:24

by 30 days that's about 5.85 million

14:27

and you multiply it by three months about 90 days

14:30

before they left Birmingham. So I think that is

14:32

the context in which you

14:34

put it in but that's nearly 17 million

14:36

but saying 17 million is

14:39

not adequate enough. I found

14:41

the card

14:42

that in December 1944 a

14:44

white poster unit started 624,644

14:46

to 2000 during the month of December. Now it meant 642,000

14:51

624,000 in

14:56

one month for the white poster unit

14:58

and the 688 sorting for 5.85 million a month. Now

15:03

you see the scope of their level of achievement

15:05

and mission performance. And it must have got to quite

15:07

a difficult point at that time in the war Commander

15:10

Philpott because this had been male that had

15:12

been building up for a very

15:14

very long time. Like I said we're towards the

15:16

end of the war in the European theatre but

15:18

this must have meant that so many

15:20

young American soldiers had

15:23

not heard from their families in a very long time.

15:25

These are care parcels, these are love

15:27

letters, these are letters from family checking that

15:29

they're okay. These are so incredibly

15:32

important

15:32

to morale and the women of the 6888 knew

15:35

that.

15:36

And you're absolutely right and that's where that motto

15:38

came from. No male, no morale.

15:40

Even some books say no male, no morale.

15:42

So that way they resolve that issue. You're

15:45

absolutely right and that's what the 688

15:47

members being away from home for the first time recognized

15:50

the value of the male to morale.

15:52

And just imagine you didn't know that

15:54

your mother died or your child that didn't

15:56

born or your child had died until you got the

15:58

letter. And I'm going to start with that.

15:59

And when they started the mail,

16:02

each time they touched an envelope, they

16:04

put their initials on it.

16:06

And sometimes the same letter came back,

16:08

so many times they had to put another sheet on top of the

16:10

envelope. And you're absolutely right, sir.

16:13

Having been out at sea,

16:15

there are six days of no mail, no phone call

16:17

and stuff like that. And I know what it

16:19

is, and a letter becomes very important

16:21

to individuals, but not knowing is

16:23

even worse. You're absolutely right. And

16:26

they did have issues in England, as

16:28

a matter of fact, I talked to one lady.

16:31

Within three days, the weather was an issue also.

16:33

It was cold in February, I guess, wet. Three

16:35

ladies went on within three days with pneumonia.

16:38

And the buildings that they were in had been locked up

16:40

now for quite some time. And

16:43

I have a photo that I can see that shows all

16:45

of the

16:46

care packages in the boxes. And

16:49

things were corroded and molded.

16:52

I bet they must have had food inside some of those care

16:54

parcels as well. So that would have attracted all

16:56

manner of beasts. The road

16:59

and all those types of things they had to work through.

17:02

And the foul smell,

17:04

the buildings were cold, poorly heated and

17:07

poorly lit. And

17:09

these ladies had to wear double clothes to be

17:11

worn. And so

17:14

that part of the story has to be told. And

17:17

I'm hoping that they're able to tell

17:19

that, at least part of that in Mr.

17:21

Perry's movie. So in

17:23

England,

17:24

the amount of

17:27

trash that must have been on these women is amazing.

17:29

And so they developed

17:32

a system that greatly

17:34

enhanced the efficiency of all

17:37

redirecting, all army mail.

17:39

And in such in the direction of the wax

17:41

lieutenant, Colonel Anna Wilson said, during

17:44

the entire state, only about 12 months

17:46

in Europe, they broke all records of redirecting

17:49

mail. And that's another word. People

17:51

say that they delivered mail and delivered

17:53

hope. It sounds good, but the 688 did

17:55

not deliver mail.

17:57

You go to the post office, you give your letter

17:59

to the clerk.

17:59

does not deliver them in, she puts them in a box

18:02

and separates it.

18:03

And somebody else delivers them in. So when they say

18:05

they deliver them in, that's another common mistake.

18:08

Absolutely. It's incredibly important to get those

18:11

historical facts correct. And

18:13

speaking of which, so it sounds like

18:15

the women of the 6888 didn't have the

18:18

best time during their training. But

18:20

how were they treated in terms of

18:23

their race and racism when they got to the UK?

18:25

Some of them were treated better in England

18:28

than they were in America.

18:30

They were treated better by the British people

18:33

than their own soldiers and army.

18:36

And one lady was interviewed,

18:39

I guess

18:39

about two or three days, they flew over to Utah, PBS

18:42

or whatever, interviewed her. And

18:45

about a year or so later, they called and said, we're going

18:47

to show you an interview.

18:49

And she called and told

18:51

everyone and asked us, let our friends

18:53

know we did all of that. Out

18:55

of all those days and hours of interviews, you

18:58

know what they put on the interview? They

19:00

call me a nigger. That

19:03

lady cried and cried. She

19:07

was offended. And she's

19:09

the one that Tyler Perry is telling the story

19:11

of the 688 through

19:14

her eyes. And the person that say that was

19:16

American military soldier. And

19:18

also,

19:20

there was no problem that the social clubs

19:22

where the black women went with the white women.

19:24

But somehow the Red Cross was

19:27

bent on making one.

19:30

And they built a separate recreation

19:32

hall for the women. By the time they got to Paris

19:34

and charity, Adam say we will never step

19:36

a foot in that building. And they never did.

19:39

And so the American soldiers

19:42

troops and leadership did not

19:44

treat them right.

19:45

And the story that you often hear

19:47

is

19:48

about the general that wanted to court martial

19:51

charity, Adams. Well, tell us a little about

19:53

charity, Adams. So she was

19:55

the first of three commanding officers of

19:58

the 688.

19:59

background and how did she get

20:02

to this position of leadership? I

20:04

remember she was a math teacher

20:07

and she got a college degree

20:10

at Wilberforce

20:12

and she was on the drill

20:14

team, a Ralva team, B.O.

20:16

Davis Sr., who was a colonel at the time

20:18

and

20:19

the father of a Tuskegee Airman commanding

20:21

officer. And she was one of the women

20:24

in the first officer candidate school that graduated

20:26

in Fort Des Moines. I believe she was

20:28

the first African American woman to be commissioned

20:30

into the Women's Army Auxiliary Corps. Exactly

20:33

right, but there's another story behind

20:35

that.

20:37

She should have been the first woman in

20:39

the United States Army that was commissioned. I

20:41

have a copy of the

20:44

graduation program

20:47

and her name is first on the list.

20:50

Wow. Military you

20:52

commission alphabetically. Some

20:56

of the time from the time that the program was typed,

20:59

until the graduation program somebody

21:01

made the decision not to commission

21:03

alphabetically, but by the

21:05

tombs or regiments. I'm neighbors, I may

21:07

get these armatures wrong. So

21:09

she was the first

21:12

Black woman commissioned.

21:14

Ironically, when the lady at

21:16

the Women's Army Museum was very kind

21:18

and went back and tracked down the first

21:20

one, the first two or three all from Ohio.

21:24

But that's the story that they do not tell.

21:27

They trained separately at Fort

21:29

Des Moines an hour, but they

21:31

lived and segregated. And

21:34

so the Carathanums remained in Fort Des Moines

21:36

as a drill instructor. As she got

21:38

selected, I have not seen that decision

21:41

yet who made it.

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22:56

But lucky enough for the 6 triple eight they had,

22:58

they were in safe hands. They had an incredibly competent

23:01

leader, like you say, who had obviously

23:04

proven herself during the training to be commissioned

23:07

through that division. But what about the other

23:09

women within the section? Do we know much about

23:11

their stories, their background, how they came to be

23:14

part of the 6 triple eight? I

23:16

can tell you something about Abhinavo Campbell,

23:18

the ex-sociant, and Charity Adam, the friends.

23:21

That's why Charity Adam picked her

23:23

to be the ex-sociant. I'll

23:25

tell you about her history. A very prominent

23:27

family in Tuskegee, and buildings on the Tuskegee

23:29

University campus named after her family.

23:32

Her father was the first black

23:34

region in the state of Alabama. Her

23:36

brother was a Tuskegee airman, the

23:38

first one to drop a bomb during the war. And

23:41

the other brother became the medical officer

23:43

for the 6th 88th, as an Army

23:45

colonel, Lieutenant Colonel.

23:47

And there are another ones, Gladys Schuster,

23:50

who formed the National Association

23:52

of Black Military Women.

23:54

And right off the bat, I don't

23:56

know all the individuals, but

23:59

I always wanted to know.

24:00

And when they came back from the States, many went back to school,

24:03

some joined the military, and

24:05

some went back to their old job. So

24:07

that's the only two that I can tell you about. Avoniele

24:10

Campbell talked to her son, was a very quiet-natured

24:12

person, but very specific

24:14

about what she wanted. And she,

24:16

we couldn't find a grave till the

24:18

son told me she donated her body to

24:20

science in Alabama. And

24:23

I think that's a significant statement to be made.

24:26

And Charity Adams deserves all the credit

24:28

that she's getting.

24:30

Well, yes, of course. It sounds like a life

24:32

and death of service, Commander

24:35

Philpott. And do we know

24:37

if these women wanted to be

24:39

doing this particular job,

24:41

or had they had something else in mind when

24:44

they signed up for the military?

24:45

I don't know, but some of them did not know

24:48

what they were signing up for. And

24:50

some did not volunteer to

24:53

go over there to be a part of

24:55

it. But I've now talked to anyone who

24:57

regretted going.

24:58

That's all I can say. I've not talked to many

25:01

that regretted going. I'm sure some regretted going

25:03

overseas, but lost a family member,

25:05

maybe separation of divorce or some hardships

25:08

who were going overseas. That's all I can

25:10

say about that. But they were proud of what

25:12

they did. And

25:15

the most common

25:16

thing I hear when I talk to them now, we

25:19

thought people had forgotten about us.

25:22

We left without

25:24

a parade, and we came home

25:26

without a parade. They left

25:28

Le Havre, France on the 2nd of March. We

25:31

got to Fort Dix, New Jersey

25:33

on the 8th of March. And some workers

25:36

say they started deactivating them on

25:38

the 9th of March. And

25:40

they had been back there on life. Nobody

25:42

gave them a parade when they came back.

25:44

But when we did the dedication of the monument

25:46

in November 2018, we gave them

25:49

a parade on Fort

25:51

Leavenworth. And the people

25:53

in the car said those women started crying as they

25:55

went by the junior high school, the cheerleaders

25:58

and the band and all the kids.

25:59

that just cheering for them and

26:02

they're still talking about that today

26:04

and I think that I don't know whether that answers your

26:06

question or not but it's a unique story

26:08

and sometimes you have to jump back and forth. Well

26:11

it sounds like whether or not they wanted to be sorting

26:13

millions of piles of letters and parcels

26:16

they certainly did their service although perhaps

26:18

they weren't respected for it as they should have been

26:20

by the powers at B but their time during

26:23

the second world war didn't end in the UK it didn't

26:25

end in Birmingham although it was towards the end

26:27

of the war they were moved on to France

26:30

to ruin. Do we know much about their time in

26:32

France?

26:33

Yes not much is written about

26:35

them they left England because the mission had been

26:37

completed. Yes. Noted that Darmé

26:39

gave them six months and many theorized

26:41

that Darmé wanted them to fail

26:43

and they went on to ruin France

26:46

because there was more backlog mail to

26:48

sort. The conditions in ruin

26:50

in France were much better than the

26:52

conditions in Birmingham the living conditions

26:56

and they

26:57

came in right after the VE

26:59

day and in ruin France they

27:01

went from three duties section to know

27:03

that the mail load had decreased some people say they had

27:05

a deadline in ruin France and Paris France

27:08

I've not found anything that's had a deadline

27:11

in ruin France they went from three

27:13

duties section a day down to two I

27:15

think they were off on the weekends or something like that

27:17

so they could share it to have them talks about another book so

27:19

they could tour the land and the same

27:22

thing happened when they went to Paris

27:24

and what's happening in Paris is a unique story in

27:26

Paris France and ruin

27:28

France German prisoners helped them

27:31

maintain their cars buildings and those

27:34

type of things into salt mail so when you see

27:36

men sorting mail as probably

27:38

German prisoners and ruin and as a

27:40

side stories with German prisoners they

27:42

gave them sign them black nurses because

27:44

they thought the white nurse who was in the white German

27:47

prison might have an

27:49

unholy relationship and

27:51

in Paris France they found out they

27:54

had civilian women helping them and

27:56

the civilian women started getting sick every

27:59

day they were eating a lot because they have

28:01

a lot of food and

28:03

that's why. So Charity Adam decided to

28:05

feed them two times a day and they didn't get

28:07

sick. Plus the women called Paris

28:09

are so war-torn they were

28:12

stealing the mail and 688 hadn't

28:14

got out and retrieved it. Absolutely

28:16

and it shows just how so many ways

28:18

this job was really really

28:20

bloody difficult to fulfill. You got people stealing

28:23

the mail left right and center you got to chase them down. So

28:25

it's not just about sorting this process.

28:28

I think that really does marginalize and trivialize

28:30

what it is they were doing. They were managing they

28:32

were creating

28:33

entire structures to make

28:35

sure that this important material

28:37

got out to the desired people. And they

28:40

changed the way that

28:42

the army and the military

28:44

handled mail. That's

28:46

a significant achievement and

28:49

that's that thing where people ought to understand that and

28:52

as a little personal note my aunt

28:55

was in the 688. Oh wow

28:58

and she her name was Alma Philpott.

29:00

So when I walked in

29:01

Co. Paulina Belle King's home she was the last

29:04

name that we put on the monument. It's

29:06

got 841 or 855 on the back of the monument. We located 8 or 9 since

29:08

then we have what you want to

29:13

look at. She said my best friend named Alma

29:15

Philpott are you related to us? I doubt it.

29:18

When I finished

29:20

the project last couple years I was going back six

29:22

generations trying to find Alma

29:26

Philpott

29:27

was born in Jacksonville. She's the daughter

29:30

of my grandfather's from my grandfather's

29:32

second wife. So I was talking about unique

29:34

things that

29:36

Providence put together. Men, a

29:39

human being, when we do things

29:41

we stitch things together. But

29:44

Providence put things together. They

29:46

weave things together. Under

29:49

the bottom all the racism, all

29:51

the challenges that they faced but on

29:53

top that's a neat image. And

29:56

we need to understand that out of all the challenges

29:58

that the 688 went through. what

30:01

they did was neat as

30:03

a neat image for history

30:05

great progress for women in the military great

30:07

progress for the army on all the military

30:10

services and I think it

30:12

was worth being told. Commander

30:14

Philpott I think that we focus an awful lot on the

30:16

history of racism is incredibly important

30:19

but what are your thoughts and

30:21

beliefs on this does it start to

30:24

marginalize the achievements of these remarkable

30:26

women as well? One of the things I

30:28

like the caution people for is

30:31

that they wanted to always

30:33

talk about the racism

30:34

and what they endured as

30:37

it's something unique.

30:40

It's unique to blacks, men

30:42

and women even today most

30:45

people African-American are oftentimes

30:47

women regardless whether they're raised their

30:49

achievements are marginalized and

30:52

so that's nothing unusual and

30:55

when people talk about it and let's not talk focus

30:57

on that the 688

30:59

there's something else unique

31:03

is that they change

31:05

the perception not

31:07

just black women

31:08

but white women and what they could perform in

31:11

the military

31:12

if they had failed I theorized

31:13

that they

31:16

probably would not have been so eager to open

31:18

up the doors and other positions and jobs

31:21

in the military if they had failed. People

31:24

often ask me

31:26

why did you put the 688 monument

31:28

at Fort Leavenworth? My

31:31

first mind asked well because I live here. No

31:35

but it's the reason was it's

31:38

located on the ground called the Buffalo

31:40

Soldier Monument Park

31:43

and that ground is at the end of

31:45

the Civil War when the black soldiers came

31:47

in Congress authorized the formation

31:49

of six black military units two

31:52

cavalry and four infantry

31:54

one of the infantry 10th cavalry came

31:56

to Fort Leavenworth they would not

31:59

allow them to sleep

31:59

in the building. So they made them sleep outdoors

32:02

on that ground. So we call that whole historic

32:04

grounds at Fort Leavenworth.

32:06

So seven of the eight monuments our

32:09

various committees have built is there. Somebody

32:11

said why is the 688 monument there? They were

32:13

not stationed there.

32:15

This is the reason I give.

32:17

People often say that the Buffalo Soldier

32:19

Statute should be taken down because

32:21

it's one minority black killing another minority

32:24

native Americans.

32:25

But they did more than that. They surveyed the

32:27

panhandle of Texas for forest fires.

32:29

What a significant historical reason for this is

32:31

that and I saw this

32:33

master thesis where I think the young man's name was

32:35

Major Johnson. He said

32:38

that the Buffalo Soldier is important because

32:40

they changed the face of

32:42

the military because that was the first

32:44

time that blacks were allowed to serve and

32:46

to be recruited on peacetime.

32:49

Before that they started

32:51

recruiting after war started discharged afterwards

32:54

and there's a historical change between the Buffalo

32:56

Soldiers and the 688. The 688

32:58

was the first

33:01

group of predominant black women to

33:03

go overseas

33:06

and because of that

33:08

and they were successful

33:10

that's one of the significant things they

33:12

did other than the work that they did.

33:16

And they opened up doors for women black women

33:18

as I see it.

33:19

Wherever they went that was discrimination. Before

33:22

they went there when they came home

33:25

and still some of us suffering now the latest 100 years

33:27

old you saw what they did for in the

33:29

national podcast. The American Soldier,

33:31

all they called me was a nigger. They didn't ask about all the other

33:34

things I did as a nurse working with the sick

33:36

and burned soldier. They didn't ask about it. They didn't print that part

33:38

about her.

33:39

But Mr. Perry at least is seeing the 688 through

33:42

her eyes. I just hope there's a equal

33:44

balance between entertainment

33:46

and the facts. I know it's not a documentary so

33:48

I hope that we can

33:50

don't be surprised that it's happened.

33:53

I think that we need to appreciate

33:56

all service members but to

33:58

fight for

33:59

country that did not fight for you

34:02

is amazing feat by all

34:05

Blacks and minorities in this country and

34:08

service. And so, and

34:10

we talked about historians writing

34:13

the history of Blacks, especially

34:15

Black women, military women, in Invisible

34:17

for Ink.

34:19

They don't talk about, I read a

34:21

story, I'm doing my research, in a military book,

34:23

it says

34:26

there was a Black poster unit

34:28

in England.

34:30

They had great military bearing and marching,

34:32

they were not very efficient.

34:35

And they left like that.

34:37

But the director say they broke all army records,

34:39

redirected mail. They repackaged

34:42

mail, and one of the ladies, the daughter

34:44

lives in Houston, Texas, the second lady I met, 680,

34:47

the lady I met, her

34:49

job was censoring the mail. And

34:52

the Pacific, the poster people that censored

34:54

mail

34:55

had their special psychological counseling,

34:58

because of the content

35:00

of the wording. Of course. Yeah,

35:03

I'm not sure they would have read. But they

35:05

don't talk about that, things that they

35:07

suffered, no matter off of them in the psychological counseling.

35:10

Now, no one gave them a unit award,

35:12

they got individual awards.

35:14

But no one gave them a unit award until

35:16

Senator Moran from Kansas helped

35:19

us push through the army giving them the Army Maritime

35:21

Union accommodation. Colonel, who

35:23

was on the committee, she took the initiative

35:26

to get the Congressional Gold Medal. Yes,

35:28

of course. And that was by President Joe

35:31

Biden in March 2022. No, he

35:33

signed the bill. He then presented,

35:35

he signed it on Washington. Yes.

35:38

And so I think that those are the types

35:40

of things that should be instead of invisible

35:42

and put an indelible ink. Absolutely.

35:45

And like you've reinforced, just showing

35:47

how incredibly competent these women were

35:49

at their job and achieving amazing

35:52

feats during such terrible conditions and

35:54

in terrible hardship, setting a legacy

35:57

for a generation and one which I can hear

35:59

comes across.

35:59

and the passion in your voice really

36:02

impacting all the way through to today

36:05

and pioneering through the role of women

36:07

in the US military.

36:10

The six remaining ladies

36:13

deserve all the honor that they have. I

36:16

don't know whether you know the story of Gideon in

36:18

the Bible.

36:19

I'm not a preacher. If

36:21

I step foot in a pulpit, lighten the proper strike.

36:25

But Gideon wanted

36:27

a lot of people to win the war.

36:30

And as he went along, God kept telling

36:32

him, you have too many people.

36:34

And when he says, they drank water,

36:37

I think the story goes, look at the ones

36:39

who left their water like a dog and look

36:41

around and

36:42

let the other ones go, because those are the

36:44

ones that are alert. And the reason the Lord

36:47

wanted Gideon

36:48

to win with fewer army people

36:50

is that Gideon and Ben would not

36:52

take credit for winning the war. He

36:55

would give credit to God. And

36:57

that's the way I've seen it. We found about 16

37:00

surviving members when we started this project.

37:04

And there are six

37:06

now. The oldest is 103. The next one, 102, 101,

37:08

199 is the youngest.

37:14

And God took 16 people to

37:18

tell the world about

37:20

the 688. And

37:23

another story, they said these women were not very intelligent.

37:25

They had no test scores. I

37:28

understand the intelligence and capabilities

37:30

of these women. Dumb women can't

37:32

set up nothing like that

37:34

and break those kind of records.

37:36

Charity Adams formed the first black women band.

37:39

They gave them a limited time to learn and play the music.

37:42

That accused 130. Another

37:44

black woman, not in the 688, was a

37:46

trained opera singer.

37:49

Later in the postal unit out at the Fort Worth, she was a

37:51

professional graphic artist. They

37:53

want to minimize these ladies' intelligence. These

37:56

ladies were professional. They gave up their professional

37:59

jobs, the ones that...

37:59

The Thalapuri, we call her the Diva from

38:02

Vegas. Berlina

38:03

Belle King.

38:05

And I love Romy Johnson too, the oldest one,

38:07

all of them. Commander Philpott, thank

38:09

you so much for your time today to

38:12

taking us through the intricacies

38:14

and the little known facts about their

38:16

important military service. And

38:18

of course the lasting, enduring

38:21

legacies

38:21

of the 6888. I can't

38:24

wait to see the film when it comes out. Like

38:26

you, I hope it really does do justice to

38:28

this important history. And I really

38:30

hope that one day I get to visit the memorial

38:33

that you've put up in their honor. Thank

38:35

you so much for your time.

38:41

Thanks for listening, but before you go, a reminder

38:43

that you can now follow along online on

38:45

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