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there so that more people can be inspired

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by the personal growth that our guests are talking

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about and take those lessons into their

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own lives. Welcome

0:14

to Wellness with Ella, the deliciously

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Ella podcast. This is the podcast

0:19

that aims to inspire you, to empower

0:21

you, to leave you feeling uplifted. Every

0:24

week, me and my guests will candidly reveal

0:27

our personal journeys of transforming

0:29

times of great difficulty into

0:31

times of enormous personal growth.

0:34

How did our guests get to where they are today?

0:37

What have been their biggest challenges? What

0:39

practices and habits have really

0:41

genuinely moved the needle for them? And how

0:43

do they keep moving forward. Wellness

0:45

with Ella has the simple mission of giving

0:47

you unfiltered, empowering conversations

0:50

that give you the tools, knowledge, and inspiration

0:52

to transform your own life and your

0:55

own health. I've

0:58

been wanting to get today's guest on the show

1:00

for a little bit. She is incredibly

1:03

inspiring. We've both been working in the

1:05

wellness industry for about the same amount

1:07

of time, and I've watched her grow

1:09

and develop and change and

1:12

embrace this real level. Vulnerability. She's

1:16

incredibly clear about an outlet

1:18

that I feel very passionate about this

1:20

idea that health and wellness is so much more

1:22

than how you look. It's so much more about

1:24

how you feel in yourself, your confidence,

1:26

your self belief. But for

1:28

many years, her aesthetic,

1:31

her body image was her

1:33

currency, and that's what she built

1:35

a brand around. We talk in-depth

1:37

about struggling with pressure to look a

1:39

certain way, this push and pull between

1:41

knowing that the external

1:44

version of you, this polished version of you

1:46

that feels you have to be a certain way,

1:48

is that odds with and in some ways harmful

1:51

to your true self and discovering

1:53

what your real self actually looks and

1:55

feels like. And how she overcame

1:57

those challenges to get to this place

2:00

of true competence in her own skin.

2:02

And I have to say think she has more

2:04

confidence in herself and in her own

2:06

skin than many people I've ever met

2:08

in my life. So we're gonna talk

2:10

a lot about struggling to accept and love our

2:12

bodies amidst a culture, which is still

2:14

so focused on the external. So

2:17

if you don't know her, Alice Living is our

2:19

guest today, Alice is a personal trainer.

2:22

She's a best selling author, a podcast

2:24

host, and an influencer. And

2:26

she's been on her own ending with her

2:28

mental and physical health, during which

2:30

she's amassed a following about seven hundred

2:32

thousand people across her social media platforms.

2:35

And her mission right now is to help

2:37

women educate themselves to enjoy

2:40

health and enjoy exercise. So

2:43

I hope you love hearing from her. We

2:45

go quite deep into some topics that feel

2:47

incredibly universal, mostly around

2:49

body image and how we feel in

2:51

our own bodies. And I hope that they resonate

2:54

deeply with you and inspire you on

2:56

your own experience and journey.

3:03

Well, Alice, welcome to the show. Thank you for

3:05

coming. Thank you so much for having me. I can't

3:07

believe it's taken this long for us actually

3:09

be in a room

3:10

together. can't remember how long I followed you but

3:12

yeah, it's so nice to meet you. Yeah.

3:14

I I don't know. It must have been like 789

3:17

years. think almost basically since you started

3:20

that I've been following your journey. And

3:23

I'm always really hesitant to wear a journey

3:25

because it can sound a bit cheesy,

3:27

a bit dry, but I just

3:29

for your context, what I really wanna do

3:31

on this show and do for everyone listening is,

3:34

I think it's my own curiosity and my own

3:36

experience, which is that, you know, that

3:38

ask ten, twelve years, my life

3:40

has completely changed. Mhmm. But I think

3:42

often what you see from the outside is, like,

3:45

almost before and after

3:47

and not really the middle. You know, you see

3:50

someone when they feel

3:53

empowered or they've got something that kind

3:55

of quote and quote successful to promote and you

3:57

see maybe where they started to get to that

3:59

point. Mhmm. But you don't always see kind of

4:01

how the journey between one to the other

4:03

really looked and how it really felt for people.

4:06

And I believe so strongly that, like, people are inspired

4:08

by people and you can't really be what you can't

4:10

see and it's understanding and humanizing

4:13

that experience for people. And I

4:15

just from where I sit and love

4:17

your social media, I'm really love

4:19

how honest and how genuine and how authentic

4:22

you've been in your own

4:24

experience --

4:25

Mhmm. -- of everything that you've done. And

4:27

and that's why I'm really excited to

4:29

to talk about today. Yeah. I think

4:31

that's the ad. Completely true. And I think that

4:33

part of that is the beauty of social media

4:35

is that In some ways, it's great that

4:38

we can see someone's timeline of where

4:40

they start and where they are now, but

4:42

you're absolutely right. It is and I I hear

4:44

a lot of people use that phrase of it being highlight

4:46

real and it is, you know. There are some things that

4:48

I do try and share and I try and be open and vulnerable,

4:50

and I think that's really important to everything that

4:52

I've done. But there's also hell of a lot

4:55

that you don't share because, you

4:57

know, for whatever reason, there's stuff that can

4:59

be painful, challenging, hard

5:01

to convey to your audience and

5:03

and also you you never really feel that you're able

5:06

to give all of yourself because it's quite nice to hold

5:08

a little bit back. So yeah, I think I

5:10

like the word journey in some ways because what else

5:12

would you describe it as? I mean, I know a lot

5:14

people find it a little bit cliche, but

5:17

life is a journey. Like, we're all going through something.

5:19

We all create narrative as we get older

5:21

and we make mistakes. We

5:24

mess up and we have to keep

5:26

on going. So I do see it as a journey

5:28

as cringey as that may be. I I do.

5:31

So mine's been turbulent

5:33

one thus far, but like some amazing

5:36

moments and some really challenging

5:38

ones. But yeah, I feel really happy

5:41

with where I am today, and and it's it's

5:43

nice to kind of see how it will evolve

5:45

as

5:45

well. Toshi. And for me, that's the point as

5:47

you said, it's the ups and the downs, and it's the

5:49

nuance of that, that as you said, I think,

5:51

are sometimes Liveing, not because you don't wanna

5:53

give it because you always have the right time and space

5:56

to do it. And then so before we get into the

5:58

journey and and what it's looked like

6:00

for

6:00

you, I wondered if you could start by introducing

6:03

yourself you know, people might know you

6:05

through your books or through your social media

6:07

and through all the work that you do. But how would you

6:09

introduce yourself as Alice? It's

6:11

so hard, isn't it? Because I I've done a lot

6:13

of, like, speaking actually over the last few weeks.

6:15

And when people say, oh, can you introduce yourself?

6:17

I sort of find In some ways,

6:19

like, I'm so confident and secure in

6:22

who I am, but also find it really hard to maybe

6:24

explain fully what I do. I

6:26

guess, first and foremost, I would say that I'm a personal

6:28

trainer. I always bring it back to the thing that I feel

6:30

really grounds me and and gives me most

6:32

purpose in my job. And,

6:34

you know, I've done that for eight years. I've worked

6:36

on a gym floor for a number of those where

6:38

I've worked with amazing clients and

6:40

done some incredible And felt really

6:43

grateful to have that experience of

6:45

really building credibility in the space

6:47

where there's so many voices. It

6:49

was so important to me to kind of be

6:52

a voice of credibility and

6:54

and real groundedness in evidence.

6:56

And and so I worked really hard on that. So I would say

6:58

first of all, once I tend to call myself back. But

7:00

then outside of that, whole host of other things,

7:02

you know, I started this journey over

7:05

ten years ago, I have gone on to publish

7:07

three books, currently writing my

7:09

fourth, I have done

7:12

a podcast. I've done loads of

7:14

brand work presenting. I

7:16

also started my, I guess, professional

7:18

career in completely different environment, which

7:20

was a new a school theater. I trained as a professional dancer.

7:23

So in terms of, like, different strings

7:25

to my bow, I feel like there's many. I

7:27

sort of feel that what I love about my

7:29

job is that I can do so much

7:31

and I I have done so much, but I also

7:33

think what I hate about my job is that I wanna

7:35

do everything and I want to embrace every opportunity

7:38

and in some ways it's a blessing and a curse and that

7:40

I've I've done so much and I love

7:42

that, but also it's really hard to keep lots

7:44

of balls off in the air all at once. Yes.

7:46

I certainly relate to that. And but if

7:48

you're introducing yourself, I guess less of like a

7:50

professional bio and who you feel

7:52

you

7:53

are, like, how how would you introduce

7:55

yourself? Okay. In

7:58

terms of how I see myself, I would say

8:01

I am a near thirty

8:03

year old who is happy,

8:07

successful, comfortable in

8:09

who I am. I would say, I'm

8:11

a kind nice person. And

8:14

that's about it, you know. Like, I feel like it goes

8:16

like awful more than that. don't wanna

8:18

massage my own ego. I'm not about

8:20

that. I quite like to just,

8:22

I guess, try and be

8:24

the best version of myself. I think the

8:26

one thing that I would always want people to

8:29

see me as is is a kind person.

8:31

I lead with empathy and

8:34

I try and be really genuine

8:36

to everyone that I meet. I would never want people

8:38

to think, you know, she's this kind

8:40

of sunny happy person online and then you meet

8:42

her in real life and she's a horror. So

8:46

I really try and be be myself authentic

8:49

and kind and

8:50

real, I guess. I think that

8:52

comes across which is why one has talked to you, but

8:54

I think the other thing it comes across in

8:56

absolute spades from where I sit certainly

8:58

is this comfortable in your own skin. And I

9:00

think that's that's a goal that

9:03

everyone wants is there. That's such a

9:05

a unlocker for contentment

9:07

and joy and presence in life

9:09

and that's why I'm so interested to understand

9:12

that journey because it sounds from where

9:14

I sit again like that's not always

9:16

been the case and you've been through this experience

9:19

over the last how many years from when

9:22

you're young to theater school, to social

9:24

media, to now. Yeah. Of really

9:26

creating that sense of empowerment in

9:28

the internal, I guess, instead of the external

9:31

validation. And I'm I'm keen to understand,

9:33

I guess, and kinda track that journey. And I

9:35

I wondered if we could start, I guess, the

9:37

beginning and then standing a bit about your

9:39

childhood and and your experiences growing

9:42

up. Yeah. Definitely. I think

9:45

we are all a product of our experiences

9:47

right, and everything that we experience colors

9:49

us and shapes us as who we are. So I think

9:51

who I am here sat today. Obviously,

9:54

there's a lot of that that was kind of built

9:56

within my childhood. So hadn't

9:58

incredibly happy childhood. I have

10:01

amazing parents, I have a brother, I have a sister,

10:03

and I grew up with relatively

10:05

normal, happy upbringing, whatever normal is.

10:08

I would say that couple of things that I feel

10:10

really shaped. First of all,

10:12

if we're talking about being comfortable in myself,

10:14

I would say I think that

10:16

a lot of us, particularly when it comes to confidence

10:19

within ourselves with particular

10:21

focus on body image, A lot of that

10:23

stems from our our mother and our experience

10:26

with how our mother views herself and

10:28

how that's then transcended into, you know, how

10:30

we view ourselves. So I think

10:32

growing up my mom really struggled

10:35

with body image. She had,

10:37

you know, challenges of her own when it came to

10:39

her weight. She had meeting disorder.

10:42

She really struggled.

10:44

And I think as

10:46

much as she probably tried, for that

10:48

to not rub off onto myself

10:51

and my siblings. I think it naturally, unfortunately,

10:53

does, which I don't blame her for, but is

10:56

is just unfortunately how it goes.

10:58

And so I think my perception

11:01

of health, well-being,

11:03

all this stuff was so narrowly focused

11:06

on body image and how I looked. So

11:08

to me, health was a look. It was

11:10

a way that you were perceived by

11:12

the outside world. And so I think

11:15

that really shaped and colored a lot of my early

11:17

experiences when it came to wanting to

11:20

change my physical appearance. But

11:22

just setting that aside for a second, I think the

11:24

other thing that really was something that

11:26

I feel was a pivotal

11:29

moment in my own upbringing, was

11:31

going through something aged sixteen

11:33

where I was in a really abusive

11:35

relationship. And I've

11:37

spoken about it a lot. I'm very open

11:39

about what I went through. It

11:41

has then led me to do amazing work with

11:43

women's aid, which I'm unbelievably grateful

11:46

for. But it was something that you

11:48

never imagine happening to you, especially

11:51

not age sixteen. And I think

11:53

that experience basically knocked

11:56

me down to be a shell of myself at such

11:59

a crucial age when you're kind of just

12:01

starting to explore like being an adult

12:03

and doing things that kind of push yourself

12:05

out of your comfort zone. I went

12:07

from, you know, going around this path of

12:09

gaining confidence and growing up and being very happy

12:12

and having great family and friends to suddenly

12:14

being someone who literally couldn't get out

12:16

of bed had to have my mom sleep in the same

12:18

room as me because I was having terrible panic attacks.

12:20

And really had

12:23

to rebuild myself again from the ground

12:25

up. And I think that that

12:28

was almost when I look back

12:30

now and I'm really grateful that I've been able to do,

12:32

you know, therapy and things like that that have really helped

12:34

me to view that situation in a different way

12:36

and to work through it. And I think that

12:38

was really where my sense of

12:41

needing to be in control came from.

12:43

I think anyone that's been in an abusive

12:45

relationship knows that the feeling of being

12:48

out of controllers, the most challenging

12:50

thing that you can go through. Like, you you lose

12:52

complete autonomy, question everything,

12:55

And I think from that,

12:58

I then desperately sought

13:00

out a way of controlling my life

13:02

again. And that control paired

13:05

with the stuff that I told you about my upbringing with

13:07

my mom and stuff, meant that control

13:09

then meant controlling my the way I looked.

13:12

It was controlling my food. It was

13:14

controlling my exercise. And all

13:16

of that was done with good intentions. I

13:19

genuinely believe that, like, I was on this

13:21

journey of health and well-being that was

13:23

gonna be, you know, unbelievable for

13:25

me. And I

13:27

don't really think I saw that it was

13:29

anything other than just a good thing because

13:31

we're taught that losing weight is good for us and

13:34

we're taught that being thin is good for us and

13:36

that, you know, controlling your diet is good for

13:38

us. So to me, I really

13:40

believe that I had kind of cracked the code

13:42

and I'd nailed it basically.

13:46

But, you know, I'm

13:48

sure it was no surprise and I've talked about this

13:50

incredibly openly. That wasn't probably

13:52

the healthiest thing that I've ever done in going

13:54

back to your point on, I guess, developing

13:57

self confidence. I think if

14:00

going through that experience at sixteen was

14:02

a builder back up again moment, I

14:04

would say probably recognizing that everything

14:06

I'd done from that age until the

14:08

age of, I don't know, twenty four, twenty five,

14:10

also was maybe a build from the ground

14:12

up again moment. I kind of had to go back to the

14:14

drawing board and realize that my coping

14:16

strategies weren't really working. I

14:19

wasn't healthy and I

14:22

needed to really understand why

14:24

and

14:25

learn I guess a different way of

14:28

trying to be the the best version of myself.

14:31

Thank you for being so kind of honest and

14:33

open about it because I think from

14:36

where I sit. I think it's incredibly inspiring

14:38

and also incredibly encouraging to other people

14:40

who are feeding for whatever

14:43

reason. That they're not

14:45

on a path that's serving them and

14:47

they're struggling

14:48

themselves. And I guess I'm

14:50

interested in that experience that you

14:52

had as you were kind of

14:55

I'm trying to phrase it in the right way because it's one

14:58

of the things that fascinates me most with this

15:00

kind of And I think we're on the

15:02

same page with this with the way that we see wellness

15:04

-- Mhmm. -- and that wellness is often. It's

15:07

very reductive. And it's very,

15:10

eat broccoli, please don't jump. So I've said there's

15:12

lots of times, but I I think it's really

15:14

interesting as you said that that was the path

15:16

you kind of went on of controlling --

15:19

Mhmm. -- that with the sense that that will

15:21

make you feel really well. Mhmm. And

15:23

did you realize at the time that it

15:26

almost wasn't making you feel well and

15:28

it was almost you weren't necessarily

15:30

addressing the kind of deeper underlying

15:33

confidence

15:33

issues. Did you feel you had a lot confidence

15:36

at this point? Yes.

15:38

And I think that's the challenging thing is

15:40

that it works in the interim

15:43

And I think, you know, anyone that's gone

15:45

on a, I guess, transformation journey,

15:48

let's call it, you know, in those

15:50

first few months and maybe even years,

15:52

when you're able to sustain that level

15:54

of kind of control, I guess. You

15:57

do feel amazing and it is a

15:59

sense of and I'm gonna be totally honest sense

16:01

of smugness that you've kind of nailed it.

16:03

You've cracked the code. You've done it. You've you've done

16:05

what everyone else kind of wanted to do.

16:08

And so you kind of wear it as a badge of

16:10

honor, you know. I am the most healthy

16:12

and I go to the gym all the time and I'm

16:14

up at this time in morning and I'm just kind

16:17

of wearing the t shirt of health and

16:19

well-being the face of it. And

16:21

I think that it was

16:23

only when things

16:26

started to unravel for me that

16:28

I maybe recognized that, oh, actually,

16:30

it's not as rosy as as it maybe was.

16:33

I think I'd always known that there were certain

16:35

things that I did that maybe

16:38

one right

16:41

But I think that if we think about the

16:43

context in which you and I both started

16:45

doing what we were doing, the

16:48

environment was so different, you know.

16:51

There wasn't the balance.

16:53

There wasn't the understanding

16:56

even of basic things like

16:58

RedS and hypothetical

17:01

came in arrear and women

17:03

having so many issues with being

17:05

over stressed and over stimulated by trying

17:08

to be thin, basically.

17:11

And I think that we now

17:13

know so much more generally.

17:17

And that's meant that what

17:20

a lot of us perceive to be wellness.

17:23

We now recognize as disordered

17:26

eating and control. And I think

17:28

that your point around

17:30

sort of what is wellness is

17:32

is incredibly reductive. Is

17:35

interesting in that I think we've

17:37

come so far, but in some ways, we're

17:40

still right back there in many ways.

17:42

In many conversations that I have with people online,

17:44

I'm sure you're the same. It's still just

17:46

about what's the quickest way for me to lose

17:48

weight? What do I need to do to get my body looking

17:50

like that? And I think that my

17:53

journey has taught me so much

17:55

and I've really tried to share that

17:58

and I've really tried to be as

18:00

open and honest with that process as possible.

18:02

But it deals does still make me sad

18:05

when I sometimes get messages like that. And I think,

18:07

you know, I thought we'd come so far.

18:10

And yet, sometimes it feels like we

18:12

haven't. But I've totally gone off a tangent

18:14

here. So I'm just wondering where we do what

18:16

is It was a great tangent. Okay.

18:18

And I've got a few questions from the pattern.

18:20

But I guess the first question I have and

18:23

I hadn't really thought about it, like, this actually

18:25

until I was Liveing to you talk to your son. It

18:27

sounds to me like you almost had two

18:30

transformations. You're almost in your life.

18:32

That first one that we were just talking about was

18:34

a very physical transformation almost

18:37

to becoming and you said, you know, the way

18:39

you described it, like, you kind of were the face

18:42

of health and fitness. You know, you were everywhere

18:44

and doing so well and being kind of pinned up

18:46

is like perfect from an aesthetic

18:48

perspective. Mhmm. But then it sounds like you

18:50

almost had the second transformation after

18:53

use of things unraveled of actually that

18:55

almost like mental transformation to their

18:57

sense of like true empowerment and --

18:59

Yeah. -- feeling deeply comfortable in

19:01

your skin. I don't know if you see it like

19:03

that at all.

19:04

Yeah. And I guess it was

19:06

probably the most challenging

19:09

-- Yeah.

19:09

-- you know, it was actually easier to

19:13

restrict and to overtrain and to

19:15

just almost numb everything

19:17

else that was going on in my life at, you know,

19:19

during that period because it was easy

19:21

to throw all of that energy into looking perfect

19:24

and making everyone believe that I was perfect.

19:26

What was hard was having

19:28

to in inverted

19:31

commas fall from grace. Things

19:33

weren't as rosy as they may have seen.

19:35

And in

19:37

order for me to carry on doing something

19:39

that I genuinely loved, I

19:42

had to publicly hold my hands

19:44

up and say that I got it wrong. And

19:46

I think that's probably

19:49

one of the most challenging things I've gone through. I

19:51

remember being in Greece

19:55

with Zana BandaiQ, who I'm sure

19:57

some people know, on a press strip.

19:59

And the most horrendous headline

20:02

was written about me in the Daily Mail. And

20:04

it was sort of along the lines of

20:06

accusing me of, you know, giving people

20:08

eating disorders. And I think

20:11

aged, I must have been like twenty three

20:13

or twenty four knowing that

20:16

I had to somehow handle that.

20:18

I just remember, like, sobbing, like,

20:20

literally just being like, what

20:22

is going on? Like, how has this happened

20:25

to me? How have I suddenly

20:28

gone from, like, everything being fined,

20:30

everything being totally awful. And,

20:33

yeah, back to my point of of saying it was

20:35

the fall from grace, it was the hardest. Like, it

20:37

was challenging and

20:40

in order for me to continue, like

20:42

I said, doing what I love, the

20:45

rebuilding had to be one

20:47

hundred percent genuine. I couldn't

20:50

fake it anymore. I couldn't pretend

20:52

that, like, everything was fine

20:54

and, you know, I was just gonna skip

20:56

back on and pretend like nothing had happened. Like,

20:58

I had to wipe

21:01

the drawing board clean and start again.

21:04

And that meant that, like, I

21:07

really probably took

21:10

a few years to get to

21:12

even feeling remotely like

21:14

I kind of felt good in myself again.

21:17

And privately, it was unbelievably

21:20

tough. Just because particularly

21:23

at that stage, I didn't feel ready enough

21:25

share that I was sort of going through all these

21:27

things, losing my period and

21:30

having really, like, disordered

21:32

issues with food, both binge eating

21:35

and and restriction. It's

21:37

very hard to share these things when you're going through them and

21:39

it's only with hindsight and having gone

21:41

through that. That I'm able to now reflect and

21:43

be like, oh my god. I really need to talk about

21:45

this because it's something that I feel I

21:47

can share. But at the

21:50

time, with all that going on in the

21:52

background, but desperately trying to sort of like

21:54

keep up and and and

21:56

be that authentic voice, that was

21:58

really hard. And I knew

22:01

that in terms of building

22:03

trust with an audience again of people that were

22:05

probably just thinking, hang on a second,

22:07

you said that. Two years ago. And now you're saying

22:09

this, I don't really understand. That

22:11

was obviously really hard. And the the only

22:13

way that I knew how to do that was

22:15

just to be a hundred percent

22:17

honest and vulnerable and authentic

22:20

and take people on that journey of making

22:22

mistakes. Fucking

22:24

up and

22:27

being okay with having to own those really publicly.

22:29

So yeah, it was it was hard, but

22:31

you're absolutely right. It was almost that second

22:33

rebirth

22:35

as such that was the

22:37

the most challenging but most,

22:39

like, empowering as such in terms

22:41

of of how I feel like I am now. I

22:44

hope you feel it because I think it's extraordinarily

22:47

brave to do that. You know, we're very,

22:49

very, very quick to say the least to

22:51

judge one another, and I think everyone,

22:54

personally, professionally, gets

22:57

things wrong and has to change,

22:59

and we're not particularly graced and allowing

23:02

people to do that. Mhmm. And I think that

23:04

it takes real bravery to do that.

23:06

And I, like, I don't mean to trivialize it,

23:08

but I just think it's I hope you feel

23:10

kind of how how brave that is -- Mhmm. --

23:12

because I think it is it's a really difficult

23:14

thing to do. And I completely

23:17

agree with you that I think I've

23:19

always said this, you know, like regaining

23:21

my physical health after I was ill was

23:23

was hard. It was hard, but it was

23:25

incompatible to regaining my

23:27

mental health and kind of seeing

23:30

myself as a whole and fully functioning

23:32

person again. Yeah. I think one

23:34

took three years, the other took ten and

23:37

required a lot more soul searching

23:39

for sure. And I don't know you can underestimate

23:41

that. I really hope you don't mind me asking this

23:44

question, but I only think I only ask it

23:46

because I think people would relate to it so deeply

23:48

as especially for women Liveing.

23:50

I think we can tend to put huge amount

23:52

pressure on ourselves to be a certain person.

23:54

And I wonder if you when you look back

23:56

on it in hindsight, do you feel there was anything

23:58

that was kind of driving you to feel that

24:01

you needed to be this perfect

24:02

person? It's a great question.

24:05

And I think that as with most women,

24:07

I think I had an immense desire to be

24:09

liked. And I think that if I

24:11

look back on when I started

24:13

social media, I'd left school

24:16

and didn't really retain many friends. I was

24:18

actually speaking about this yesterday. That

24:20

I just remember this moment where, like, my girlfriend's

24:22

from school had obviously, like, created a separate WhatsApp

24:24

group without me. And I kind

24:27

of lost a lot of friends just because

24:29

I don't don't know. I I went often did something

24:31

different. went to their school. They all went to university

24:33

for whatever reason. As amazing as they

24:35

are. We sort of went our separate ways,

24:38

and I kind of found myself incredibly

24:40

lonely. I went away to college,

24:42

which was a whole another sort of start

24:44

for me. And whilst I made amazing

24:46

friends, I think what social media

24:48

gave me was this opportunity

24:51

just to completely rebuild myself

24:53

again to just create this person that

24:55

was, you know, a new Alice and this

24:57

was Alice that was gonna be doing all

24:59

these things and when people started

25:01

to engage with that and to like me,

25:04

I think as someone who is so desperate to

25:06

be liked always has been unfortunately at the part

25:08

of me that I still am challenged by,

25:11

but I'm a people pleaser and I want to be liked.

25:13

And think when people started

25:15

to like me, I was just

25:17

like, this is amazing, you know, and

25:19

I built a community of people that

25:22

helped me to feel happy

25:24

and confident because they were liking me

25:26

for me. And don't think I'd ever really

25:28

had that before in my life. I think I'd always

25:30

try to chameleon myself into being

25:32

lots different people to fit lots of different

25:34

groups and never quite Liveing. And then suddenly,

25:37

I started this thing, it took off and

25:39

I was being liked for being me. So I

25:41

think that was really a game changer

25:43

for me. And I think that's what meant that

25:46

when it came to being this sort of

25:48

persona, this perfect person, I

25:51

didn't wanna step away from that. It was

25:53

addictive in that I

25:55

I needed that sense validation to

25:58

continue to be the person that I

26:00

wanted to be. And

26:03

having gone from maybe feeling like

26:05

a quite lonely, unconfident, person.

26:10

Suddenly I was Alice who

26:12

had all these photos on Instagram and it sort of meant

26:14

that she was something. And I'd made something

26:17

of myself and I

26:19

just think that anyone who's

26:21

been in that position knows that it's really

26:23

hard to away from that once you almost have

26:25

that addictive nature of being validated

26:28

constantly. And I'm gonna be totally honest,

26:30

it's still to this day is something that I'm working on

26:32

because it all all of

26:34

us, unfortunately, have well, those that

26:36

are on social media have brought into this need to

26:39

have people tell us we're good and and how

26:41

people kind of validate how we look and what we

26:43

do and and whatever. And I think I

26:47

just created this person that was happy and smiling

26:49

and always quite positive and

26:52

sustaining that was impossible.

26:55

But I desperately tried

26:57

for as long as I could. And it's

27:00

only really in in the in the past years

27:02

that I've been able to let the facade down to

27:04

let people in and say, well, actually, you know,

27:06

as with most people, everything isn't always great

27:08

all the time. But I think as someone

27:10

again, like I said, who is desperate to be

27:12

liked to reveal

27:14

chinks in your armor is to almost potentially

27:17

be disliked or to be unfollowed

27:20

or to be disengaged with them. think

27:22

that was such a big fear

27:24

moment for me. But in

27:27

some ways, it's paid off tenfold because I think

27:29

now I'm I'm so grateful

27:31

for being able to just be like completely

27:33

myself, good and bad ad online

27:35

rather than just trying to keep up this, like,

27:38

happy smiley Alice. I'm always happy. And

27:40

what because I think one of the things that interests me

27:42

is I think what you're talking about

27:44

is so relatable for so many people,

27:46

and I think it absolutely extent online,

27:49

but I think it's very much in real life as

27:51

well that we people see us as

27:53

a certain person and, you know,

27:55

that person might be rewarded and so you feel that

27:57

you've got continue to to do that

27:59

and it's this interesting push and pull between

28:01

wanting to do things that you feel like you're being validated

28:04

and applauded for and then actually aren't necessarily

28:06

serving you when when you start to get that

28:08

niggling feeling of something's not right addressing

28:11

that. It's so difficult. And

28:14

Did you feel that in real life too that

28:16

you had you were basically kind of

28:19

not living in personas, obviously, it was a part

28:21

of you, but that you weren't able to

28:23

be your kind of true

28:24

self? Did you feel like you knew exactly who

28:26

your true self was? It's

28:29

a great question. I think, no.

28:31

And I think that's because I'd created

28:33

this disconnect between me

28:36

and me who was out there,

28:38

you know, me who was the face of Alice

28:40

Liveing or Clean Y'all's, whatever I call at the

28:42

time. And me who was Alice, who

28:44

was Alice behind closed doors, and

28:47

that level of dissociation between one

28:49

part of yourself and another part of yourself is actually

28:52

really complex. And it's

28:54

something that I really had to work on

28:56

in that you know, I had to start to

28:58

connect the two, and that's actually really

29:00

difficult when you've put across

29:04

affection or what you think to be perfection

29:06

for such long time to

29:08

weave in your real self is

29:11

so much more risky because because what if

29:13

people don't actually like real me,

29:16

what if people don't like, you know, I've shown them this

29:18

and they've liked that. That's great and that's kept

29:20

me going. But actually like if I start

29:22

to weave in real me, what's gonna

29:24

happen if they don't like it? And

29:26

I am still someone who finds it so

29:29

hard to receive criticism online even if

29:31

it's something as simple as someone saying,

29:34

I don't know, a small amount of criticism,

29:36

whatever it is, even if it's constructive by

29:38

find it hard because it feels

29:41

so personal, doesn't it? It feels like a personal

29:43

attack. But I do think that

29:45

for the most part, I just had to

29:47

learn to create a a oneness

29:50

between online Alice

29:52

and private Alice and that, you

29:54

know, as I said in my introduction, they're still part of

29:56

me that's not a hundred percent open because I

29:58

actually think that's actually really unhealthy. And

30:00

I've really learned that I used to try and

30:02

get a hundred percent of myself, but it's actually nice

30:05

to keep something back. And, you know, things like

30:07

my relationship remains pretty private. You

30:09

know, Patty and I keep

30:12

most of that behind closed doors. I keep a

30:14

lot of stuff now. In terms of

30:16

friends and what I'm doing and stuff private

30:19

and almost see Alice online is

30:21

still me, but I just gave some of

30:23

myself, not all of myself. And

30:26

it feels more connected to real Alice,

30:29

but it's not kind of all of

30:31

me. I'm just gonna show you absolutely everything because I

30:33

think I've learned that that's probably

30:36

something that's not hundred percent healthy. Yeah.

30:39

I can I can definitely imagine

30:41

that? But I am really curious though with this, like,

30:43

to parts of yourself at this period? Did you feel

30:45

like the private part there was only something

30:48

you showed yourself? Like, when you'd meet people in

30:50

a situation? Because again, I think that's what Sony

30:52

people relate to that you feel like got to go to

30:54

a party or a work event or a new

30:57

job and you've got to turn up and you've got to be this

30:59

kind of like totally, you

31:01

know, filtered person -- Yeah. -- like,

31:03

as though you'd never have a bad day and

31:05

everything's easy all the time. And I think that's

31:07

something that what you were talking about projecting

31:10

online. I think people really struggle with

31:12

projecting in real life

31:14

as well.

31:15

Yeah. No. III think you're

31:17

right. And I think it's

31:19

slight with anything, you know, whether you're walking

31:21

into a room or you're posting something

31:23

on social media, both are the same in

31:25

the sense that we just want to be liked,

31:28

like as humans, ninety nine percent of us just

31:30

want to be liked. And so

31:33

we kind of know the formula that gets

31:35

you to that point in some ways like you have to

31:37

be kind and nice and smiling and that

31:39

as much as I said all those things about myself and

31:41

the introduction which I do hope I am

31:44

I also do have good parts of myself that

31:46

are like and actually, like, my therapist has

31:48

worked so hard on me with this. It's Liveing

31:51

I show anger in some of my therapy sessions,

31:53

she's like, this is great. We're making real progress

31:55

here because, like, you should be angry and you

31:57

should be jealous and, like, Those feelings

31:59

also make up who we are and make us real

32:01

people. And so as

32:04

much as I do

32:06

see myself as like, you know, what I said in

32:08

the beginning, I also think

32:10

I'm really happy to own the parts of myself

32:12

that are slightly more challenging elements

32:15

of me, jealousy and anger and frustration

32:17

and all the things that kind of make us a whole

32:19

human being. So absolutely

32:22

to your point, I used to walk into a

32:24

room and just go on. And I

32:26

guess some of that comes from being in theater as

32:28

well. Like, we are just expected to

32:30

be smiley, happy, like

32:32

tips and teeth was how we used to describe it

32:34

at college. But you just had to be and you didn't complain

32:37

and you just walked in and you just did the job.

32:39

But I think that unlearning lot

32:41

of that and now knowing that lot

32:44

of the time don't go to events because I know

32:46

that if I'm not in the place to be

32:48

myself, I'm not I'm not necessarily ready

32:50

to be there. Or if I do go to do

32:52

it to events, I sort of go knowing

32:55

that I don't need to walk in and be the loudest voice

32:57

in the room or the smileiest person there.

33:00

That I can go in and just sort of talk to one

33:02

person and and be a bit more myself and ease

33:04

myself in. And, yeah, guess what we're kind

33:06

dancing around is what is our true

33:08

self? You know, I'm sat here today saying,

33:10

I think this is the true me, but but

33:12

really, I think we are ever evolving.

33:15

And picking up things and dropping things

33:17

and learning as we go. So it's

33:19

hard to sort of pinpoint the fact that

33:21

right now I could say I walked into this room

33:23

and I was Alice Maybe

33:25

I was, but also what

33:28

is the real me? What's the real you? Do we ever

33:30

fully show our real selves? And

33:32

I think that the only answer that I have to that

33:34

question and I don't have all of answers. But the only

33:36

answer is going back to something

33:38

that we've covered, like just being comfortable

33:40

in myself, and comfortable

33:43

with all parts of myself. And I

33:45

think that's the only way that I can fully

33:47

describe, I guess, like a sense of groundedness in

33:49

connection with me And I

33:52

as with most things, I'm gonna be challenged by times where

33:54

I probably don't feel like myself over the next ten,

33:57

twenty, thirty, forty years. I'm sure But

33:59

I think that in terms of finding

34:01

who I really am, I think it's about

34:04

accepting all parts of myself and

34:06

knowing that those are all equally valid.

34:09

Rather than just the nice shiny happy

34:11

parts. I love this idea of accepting

34:13

all parts of yourself. It's something that I've

34:15

thought more and more about over the last year or

34:17

two. Because I think there is that we all

34:20

have traits in ourselves. But on

34:22

our best traits -- Mhmm. -- like objectively speaking,

34:24

you know, we can be more reactive or

34:27

we can get pulled in, you know, into a kind

34:29

of spiral quicker or we can lose that

34:31

tempo or whatever it is. We all have

34:33

those in us, you know, mine is like when I get

34:36

overwhelm get quite manic. That's the

34:38

thing I most dislike about myself. I

34:40

suddenly become quite, like, frenetic.

34:43

And I feel like I'm very stressful

34:45

to be and to be around as a result.

34:47

And I used to just whenever I'd get that, I'd be

34:49

kind of almost angry at myself for that,

34:51

and it's like accepting that of your

34:54

personality. It doesn't mean that you can't

34:56

try and work on it a little bit, so it feels

34:58

easier. But it's realizing

35:00

that you are your whole self and you

35:02

are full of flaws because we're all full of flaws and

35:05

that that's okay. That doesn't mean you're unlovable

35:07

or a bad person. I think that's something that we

35:09

collectively struggle with a

35:11

little bit, as you said, and and it's part of the reason

35:13

why I love having these conversations is because we often

35:15

look at people and we think they've had a linear journey

35:17

and that was hard at the beginning and now it's easy

35:20

or you know, they just became this person

35:22

overnight. And actually, the human

35:24

emotions that we're talking about, we've

35:26

all been through them. You know, we really have we had

35:28

an episode a few weeks go. And we talked

35:30

a lot about having these intrusive thoughts, and I

35:32

had them really badly after my first daughter, Skye

35:34

was born. I got cab this morning.

35:37

And I was I think because I've been having a lot of these

35:39

conversations with people recently, we're going kind of

35:42

really deep into people's kind of true selves

35:44

to your point and so I keep

35:46

taking anyone I meet there because I'm so

35:48

interested again in this, like, normalization of

35:50

what it's actually like to be a human as opposed

35:52

to what we kind of project in a way. And

35:56

he started telling me about his daughter-in-law is

35:58

struggling, postpartum, and I know he's

36:00

told him about some of my experience. And I'd

36:02

actually talk to my mom about it the night before,

36:04

and she you know, I wish I'd talk to you. And I said,

36:06

well, you tried, but I just sort said I'm

36:08

overwhelmed. Mhmm. And,

36:11

you know, she didn't ask any more questions, and

36:13

that's we were talking about. But so I asked him more

36:15

questions. Very difficult upbringing. He had

36:17

a heart attack at thirty eight. He

36:19

almost died. After that, he had these

36:22

religious roots have thought some very, very scary

36:24

ones and some kind of quite dangerous ones and

36:26

he felt so trapped in what it did to him. And

36:28

it was just this amazing reminder of this just random

36:30

man that happened to me twenty minutes this morning.

36:32

Mhmm. And we had such similar experiences

36:35

and, like, everyone in the streets being there and

36:37

done that. And I think it's just opening up,

36:39

isn't it people. So you don't feel alone when

36:41

you feel like you have these parts of you

36:43

that you don't like. We don't want to show you people

36:45

but realizing every single person in the

36:47

room that you're in has those two. Like,

36:49

nobody is quote one quote perfect,

36:52

and I think the more we can dismantle that,

36:54

the more empowered we almost

36:56

become. And I think it's great

36:58

that you're saying that and and absolutely agree

37:00

with everything that you've said, but also

37:02

I think what we therefore need to challenge is this

37:04

idea that an I'm not gonna go

37:06

too deep. So I'll just keep it surface

37:08

level, but when we look at people being

37:11

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38:04

When we look at people quote unquote,

38:07

canceled, there are

38:09

many situations where I think that's valid,

38:12

but I also think there are a lot of situations where

38:15

we just don't allow people to make mistakes

38:17

or to be fallible. And I think

38:19

that the bar

38:21

at which we set for people in the public

38:23

eye, whether that be online, whether that

38:25

be, you know, in film, television, whatever

38:28

it is, is so high

38:30

that we're almost setting everyone up for a fall

38:33

you know, if anyone shows even

38:36

the slightest amount of kind of weakness

38:38

as such and I and I use that word, you

38:40

know, because for one of another, but

38:42

it means that the expectations

38:45

that we place on those people are so

38:47

high that almost all of them are gonna fail in

38:49

some way because we're all human. We all make mistakes

38:51

all the things that are disagreeable

38:54

that we don't, you know, we look back on, we regret.

38:56

But unfortunately, that's that's living

38:59

a messy, happy life like it's not

39:01

perfect. None of us have perfection.

39:04

It might look great from the outside, but actually

39:06

there's so many things going on and I think

39:08

that we can talk really openly

39:10

about this stuff, but actually the reality

39:12

of that playing out, I think, is less common.

39:15

It's great to talk about vulnerabilities and

39:19

feelings of anger,

39:21

emotions, whatever, the negative

39:23

stuff, I guess. But actually, what I

39:25

would love to see is is people being

39:28

able to truly show you that staff and people

39:30

hold them and and understand them

39:33

and still kind of

39:35

like them, I guess. Rather

39:38

than quickly jumping to, oh my God,

39:40

she's a terrible person. And, you know, we only

39:42

have to look at stuff like I'm not gonna

39:44

go down there either, but like tattle and places

39:46

like that where someone

39:48

can do the slightest thing wrong, say

39:50

the wrong thing, you know, do whatever,

39:53

make the wrong decision, or even sometimes

39:55

don't don't make the wrong decision. They just live their

39:57

life and they are criticized for

39:59

it. And I think it's making us live these muted

40:02

sensored lives and I

40:05

want to see the messiness. I want to see

40:07

the chaos. The people that I love following

40:09

an Instagram are those that I'm happy

40:11

to show that stuff, you know, and happy

40:13

to be fallible because that

40:16

for me makes me connect to them in such a

40:18

deeper way because I get that they're They're

40:20

them. They're they're normal. They're real.

40:23

And I just personally

40:25

think that we need to allow people more

40:27

space to to do that stuff and to be

40:29

that way because I have

40:31

so gratefully been allowed to

40:33

make those mistakes and have retained such an

40:36

amazing audience of people who've held

40:38

me through some pretty shitty times

40:40

and are still there to support me. And

40:42

I think I feel so grateful for that and

40:44

I wish that experience for other people

40:46

who who are maybe going through similar things?

40:49

Yeah. I think that extends everywhere. Doesn't

40:51

it? We're very, very, very, very quick

40:54

to judge into critical size each other. And I

40:56

think that's they're often the reflection of

40:58

parts of ourselves that we that we don't like,

41:00

which is why I think it's the importance

41:02

of actually learning to I

41:04

guess it is. It's it's bring it all intangly,

41:06

isn't it? And embrace every part of ourselves, and

41:08

then perhaps we wouldn't wouldn't look at other

41:10

people in quite the same way because we appreciative

41:13

of flaws because they're as you said, they're just human.

41:15

They're an a, everyone says and does the wrong thing

41:17

of points in their life. We've all done it a hundred times

41:20

and we'll do it a hundred more times. But

41:22

I'm really interested now in this transformation at how

41:24

you started to feel this confidence in

41:26

yourself, to be yourself, to embrace this whole

41:29

side of you because as I said, I think that's

41:31

something people deeply relate to, but then

41:33

actually doing it and actioning it

41:35

and then coming, not out the other

41:37

side because you said life as a journey. It's not like

41:39

you flick a switch and it's finished, but that

41:41

you start to see, I guess, the fruits

41:43

of the labor. You know, you start to have it becomes

41:45

easier. Day after day to feel confident

41:48

yourself. Was there one moment

41:50

you talked about an unraveling earlier? Was

41:52

there one moment where you thought okay,

41:54

that that is it. I need to live differently.

41:56

This who I'm not pretending to

41:58

be, but who I'm kind of showing the world

42:00

to be and who I really am.

42:02

They can't be the same person because this is damaging

42:05

me.

42:06

I don't think there was one kind of catalyst

42:09

I think it was a series of events for

42:11

me that kind of led to a bit of

42:13

a moment of going, wow, everything's

42:15

not okay. But it was a really

42:17

slow burn. I think that almost

42:20

in real time I was learning that everything

42:22

I was doing was wrong at the same time as everyone else

42:24

learning that what collective group

42:26

of people like us who were doing stuff online were

42:28

doing was, I choose the

42:30

word wrong, but it just was unhealthy.

42:34

And I think to

42:36

summarize it down to what I then

42:38

had to do, it was to relearn

42:40

what health meant to me

42:43

because my version of how

42:45

was almost the antithesis of of what I

42:47

now know to be healthy. And

42:50

I had to basically go back to the drawing board

42:52

and say, well, what does healthy

42:54

therefore look like to me? What does that actually

42:56

mean for me? Because I thought I'd been

42:58

doing it right this whole time and actually it turns

43:00

out I really, really hadn't. So

43:03

if I'm gonna start again, I need to just

43:06

go from the ground up, like, what does it look

43:08

like to me? And there were some people along the

43:10

way who've really helped me. I reference

43:12

her all the time, but I I don't know if you know Emma

43:14

Cannon. Just like the most amazing

43:16

woman who I've ever met. Almost

43:19

like a mother in role to me in some ways

43:22

in that She came into my life

43:24

at the perfect moment and

43:27

was the only person who looked

43:29

me in the eye and was like, You need to gain

43:31

weight. You need to stop doing so much exercise.

43:34

If you don't do those things, you will end

43:36

up not being able to have children and you're gonna

43:38

be in a really bad way. And while that

43:40

seems incredibly severe, it was almost as though

43:42

like she was my mom, and she was telling me, like, come

43:44

on Alice. Like, you can't carry on like this.

43:47

And I think that I needed that. I

43:49

needed a bit of tough love and I needed

43:51

just to be told that in order

43:53

for me to have the life that I really wanted

43:56

and to do all the things that I wanted to do,

43:58

I had to let go of the body that I so desperately

44:00

loved and felt so validated

44:03

in. And I

44:05

think it came back to that point of being like,

44:07

well, as much as

44:09

I need to unlearn all the things that I'd been doing,

44:12

I didn't quite cross the threshold

44:14

of understanding that that meant also giving

44:16

up the body, that meant giving up the look.

44:20

And Emma was the first person who made

44:22

me realize that Unfortunately, that

44:25

was gonna have to happen. And that was

44:27

really hard because my whole identity had

44:29

been this you

44:31

know, how I looked. And so to

44:33

then have to

44:36

almost like step back and and

44:38

and lose that and suddenly have to be like,

44:40

oh, well, I'm not Alice with the app. So who

44:42

am I? What are people actually known me for?

44:45

What are they even looking me for, am I even inspiring?

44:47

Do they even care about what I have to say anymore?

44:49

Because I don't look the part. I

44:52

think that was just so

44:54

so hard. And I think

44:57

it's the thing that I speak to most women

44:59

about when I come across and meet

45:01

the events or industry or whatever is,

45:04

we all probably have a moment in our lives where

45:06

we think we looked amazing and often

45:08

and not always, but often it was when we were at

45:10

our smallest. I think any

45:12

woman who then comes

45:15

away from that it's

45:17

incredibly difficult to not feel like a failure

45:20

because that was your best. And everyone told

45:22

you you looked amazing and you're you know,

45:24

my situation on the cover of a magazine and you were

45:26

doing this and doing that and being off of this and being

45:28

off of that. If you're not that anymore,

45:32

what's the point? Why are people gonna be interested

45:34

in you? And so I think that

45:37

going back to my point about Emma, she

45:39

was the first person who gave me that Come

45:41

on, Alice. If you want the life

45:43

that you want, you've got to

45:46

give up that. And I think that that was really

45:48

hard. And that took me a long time. It wasn't an overnight

45:50

thing. It would It was years. It was

45:53

gaining weight and binge eating and

45:55

and going through really tumultuous moments

45:57

of you know, relationship with

45:59

food, relationship with exercise, still

46:02

making mistakes, still doing things wrong,

46:04

but having more better days than

46:06

bad days. Eventually getting

46:08

my period back, starting

46:10

to, I guess, find a new voice

46:13

online and and find confidence with

46:15

that. And I think probably

46:18

in the last sort of two years, I've really

46:20

found my place where I feel like

46:22

I belong, where I feel like I can

46:25

with comfortableness, know that

46:27

I I have my people.

46:29

I'm in my space that I feel happy in.

46:31

I don't feel like I need to be anything other than

46:33

myself. And I don't feel like I need

46:35

to use myself to sell what I want to

46:38

sell. I feel like I have enough credibility

46:41

in terms of my expertise, my experiences,

46:43

and whatever. That help me be me

46:45

without me needing to

46:46

say, look at me, look at me, buy

46:49

this because I look like this. But yes,

46:51

it's been a hard journey. Of course.

46:53

And I think never

46:55

is easy. Is it, you know, when you're really

46:58

going through something like that, and I think

47:00

it's such an important thing to say that it's hard

47:02

because often when we want to make changes, we'll know

47:04

we need to make changes. We're almost

47:06

disillusioned very quickly when we're on

47:08

the track of trying to make that change

47:10

because it is really hard And

47:13

so we don't keep going with it because it's

47:15

too hard. And I think it's I've already

47:17

strongly that calling out the fact that

47:19

Sounds like it was so worth it, but that it wasn't an

47:21

easy journey as absolutely essential in empowering

47:24

other people to feel that they can make changes in

47:26

their own life too because I I don't think big

47:28

changes can ever be easy. But

47:30

what I'm really curious about is how did

47:32

you, you know, you said at the beginning there that kind of

47:34

woman's like, your body in the way that you

47:37

looked was kind of your validation

47:39

in a way that's how that made you feel

47:41

really good in yourself. How

47:43

did you transfer for once a better

47:45

word? That validation into

47:49

you, into your kind of internal world

47:51

into your soul, into the, like, just

47:53

Alice. Mhmm.

47:55

I think, to a certain extent,

47:58

I'm gonna be totally understanding if we're talking about being vulnerable.

48:00

I still care about the way that I look. You know?

48:03

Like, I still care that I put across

48:05

an image that I like and I would

48:07

have shown up here in my track bottoms if I didn't care

48:09

about how I looked. I obviously do, but

48:11

I think that it had to not be the most important

48:14

thing about me. And I think that's really

48:16

important. Like, you can still care about how you look.

48:18

You can still care about our physical

48:20

appearance because, unfortunately, that's the world we live

48:22

in. But it can't be the most important thing

48:25

about you, and it can't be the only thing

48:27

that you have. And a big thing for

48:29

me was not to be

48:31

using my body as a

48:33

way to sell stuff

48:35

and to make people buy into me.

48:38

My thing was, well, if I can't do

48:40

this and I don't want to do this, I

48:42

need to ground myself in credibility and

48:44

knowledge and sharing of information because

48:46

that's what I really enjoy. That's what gives me

48:48

fulfillment is being able to help

48:51

women to go to the

48:53

gym, to embrace lifting

48:55

weights, to find a way of training that they enjoy.

48:58

That's what, you know, is the thing that keeps

49:00

me going. And so that

49:03

really doesn't have to have anything to do with the way look

49:05

because to give them that information to empower

49:07

them to have their own journey. Doesn't matter

49:10

how I look or it shouldn't. And

49:12

so that was really important for me. So I think it was

49:14

about learning to

49:17

create an an environment online

49:19

and and a voice that

49:21

was very focused

49:23

on giving of education,

49:26

of empowerment, of inspiration without

49:28

having to rely on my physical appearance. Like

49:31

I said, at the start doesn't mean I don't

49:33

care about how I look, but it can't

49:35

be the thing that I use to get people to

49:37

buy into me and it certainly shouldn't

49:39

be the most important thing about me.

49:42

I now feel a hundred percent confident

49:44

in the fact that I offer so much

49:46

more than just

49:48

being a pretty face or whatever, you know, or

49:50

having a set of apps. I

49:52

I think that I

49:54

worked so hard to try and develop that

49:56

voice that was that went

49:58

beyond just looking a certain way

50:00

and and looking the par, I

50:02

had to, like, actually deliver

50:04

the the the information that people

50:06

really wanted. So I think that

50:08

I kind of went on that kind of

50:11

learning journey, I guess, of finding

50:13

that. And that took me a while. Like, it's hard to find your

50:15

voice, especially when it's one that

50:18

feels completely new and and alien to

50:19

you, but I just had

50:21

to unlearn Liveing with

50:24

my body and being my

50:26

body first, me second. I

50:29

think I so appreciate what you

50:31

said, though, is that it's because

50:34

I think we have, again, it's quite all on our thin culture.

50:36

It's almost like people wear

50:38

body image is a challenge. And, you know, we

50:40

live in very kind of aesthetics focus,

50:43

social media, first world

50:45

where diet culture is rife and

50:47

and how we look is. The currency is still

50:49

in lots of ways to your point earlier. You know, we say

50:51

we've changed, but we've changed to an extent. The

50:54

extent is good, you know. But I it's

50:56

probably not enough. Mhmm. And think there's

50:58

something interesting there, but equally so

51:02

it feels unrealistic to say, okay, I'm

51:04

going to stop putting how I look first

51:06

and

51:06

foremost, like, I've got more to me than that and

51:08

I

51:08

wanna feel comfortable and confident to share

51:10

that with people and be myself

51:13

and not feel like I'm only here because I look

51:15

a certain way. But equally to

51:17

not to say it's okay to still care because

51:19

I think that that, again, it's the nuance that's often

51:21

Liveing. Yes, ma'am. And but did you

51:23

feel that you needed to build

51:25

back up, that self esteem, that self worth,

51:27

that self belief, like, on a personal level

51:29

as well? Did you feel especially after

51:31

that kind of very difficult experience in your teens?

51:34

That you had this work

51:37

this, like, inner work to do -- Mhmm.

51:39

-- for yourself to feel that confidence.

51:42

To be completely you, light, or

51:44

not liked.

51:45

Yeah. I think so. And I

51:48

think that I had to work

51:50

really hard, and I'll be totally honest, I I had

51:52

years of therapy, like, three, four

51:54

years of working on that. I

51:56

remember going to my therapist who I eventually

51:59

worked with for it for it, like I said, a number of years.

52:01

And my first thing was going and then just being like,

52:04

I feel a bit lonely and I just don't I

52:06

find it quite hard to make friends and, like,

52:08

she was like, okay, and we worked on that

52:10

maybe couple of weeks and suddenly, like, the floodgates opened

52:12

a few weeks later and I was like, I ride it really hard.

52:15

It was almost like I just had to, like,

52:18

completely open up about

52:20

everything that I felt over,

52:22

obviously, a period of time. And

52:25

actually, what came about

52:27

was that the

52:29

thing that was really missing and

52:31

the thing that I think drove all of

52:33

what I did was a complete lack of

52:35

self esteem. I think inside

52:38

of myself despite trying to put across

52:40

this image of happy smiley Alice

52:42

and being on the cover of a magazine and, you know,

52:44

doing all all the things that I did

52:46

at what was deep inside

52:49

myself was I have zero self

52:51

worth, I have zero self confidence, and

52:53

all of this is a kind of fake it so you make it

52:56

thing. Which I think massively stemmed

52:58

again from being in theater because we're basically

53:00

taught to be happy and smiley all the

53:02

time. And I think that

53:06

it was really, I guess,

53:08

enlightening for me to realize that

53:10

I wasn't failing it, that wasn't actually

53:12

that confident that I was deeply unconfident

53:15

within myself and lacking in self esteem.

53:17

And I think the biggest thing that I had

53:19

to learn in therapy and the thing that I always

53:21

references my therapist that's helping me most with

53:24

was realizing that I'm a good person.

53:27

I think it's so hard for all of us

53:29

to just be like I'm a nice good person.

53:32

I know that I am. And particularly

53:34

when you're online and you are publicly

53:38

able to be told that you're not good and

53:40

told that you've done something wrong and told that you're

53:42

not right for whatever someone wants or feels

53:45

about you. To no

53:47

deep down in yourself when you go to bed at

53:49

night, like, I'm a good person. And

53:51

regardless of the messes that I make, you

53:53

know, in life and whatever and

53:56

the mistakes that I make, I

53:58

know that I'm a nice good person

54:00

and I think that was like that took

54:03

so long for me together. But

54:06

I think that in terms of self

54:08

esteem, I think that's the crucial building

54:10

block. Like, when I wake up in

54:12

the morning, when I go to do my job, when I go

54:14

to the gym, when I engage with people like,

54:17

ultimately, I'm a good person

54:19

and and I'm okay. And if

54:22

people don't like me, that's not a reflection

54:24

of me. Not being a good person

54:26

or not being nice or liked. It's

54:28

a it's a, you know, it's a normal

54:30

thing that we're not meant to get on with everyone in this

54:32

world and we're not meant to be everyone's cup of tea and that's

54:35

and that's okay. But as long as you can put

54:37

your head on your pillow at night and say,

54:39

I'm doing alright. Like, I'm okay. I'm a good

54:41

person. Then that's

54:43

the most important thing. So I think

54:46

learning that then bought

54:48

about all the other stuff. Bought about the ability

54:50

to not feel like I was my body because I

54:52

was actually I was a good person, so I didn't need the

54:54

body so much because I knew I was okay

54:56

at myself and look, I'll be totally

54:59

honest. Like, I think

55:01

having a relationship and a partner. I

55:03

I always hate using this because I think I don't wanna

55:05

make it seem as though you need someone else to make

55:07

yourself whole. But I do think

55:09

that the right person in your life can

55:11

make you and I

55:13

use this analogy with Patty, and I think

55:16

it really it makes me smile saying it, but, like,

55:18

he shines back into me what I can't see

55:20

it

55:20

myself. Do you know what I mean? I know it sounds

55:23

really cheesy. Yeah. It's so

55:24

nice. I think at a time when I

55:26

really struggled to see the good in myself, he

55:28

was able to, like, put that back into

55:30

me. And I think that Now

55:33

I can see it and I'm like, obviously,

55:35

I feel like I can definitely do that. I'm a good

55:37

person thing, but I think at the points where

55:40

I couldn't, it was so crucial to have someone

55:42

who was a really kind decent

55:45

person who was able to, like,

55:47

shine that back into me and I cannot tell

55:49

you how valuable that was at some of,

55:51

like, my lowest ebbs just

55:53

to, like, have a person who who was able

55:55

to do that. Yeah. I understand that completely

55:57

actually because serious self esteem

55:59

was something I didn't it's funny

56:01

that I say I didn't realize I had it because

56:04

I don't really ever said this before, but when

56:06

I was very little like 67I

56:08

used to tell my mom that I hated myself.

56:10

I could write her nose telling her I hate myself. So

56:13

this is like a very long standing issue. Yeah.

56:15

I didn't say it flippin' me, but like, why didn't

56:17

realize it was shit until I was like

56:19

thirty? I'm not really sure because that seems

56:22

now retrospect not right to feel that

56:24

way when you're kind of so little, but

56:26

it wasn't until actually I was with my

56:28

husband now. Then you felt

56:30

I felt I had a safe space. Then it was

56:32

when I felt really saved and really loved and really supported

56:35

was the time I felt able to actually explore

56:38

my mental health and put it back together

56:40

again. And I don't think I

56:42

could have done that without him.

56:44

And I feel proud of myself

56:46

because I feel like I've I've done it you know, and

56:49

you can only do that work yourself and you've

56:51

got to want to do that that that work.

56:53

But equally, I totally agree with you. I think

56:55

feeling deeply supported and deeply

56:57

loved and deeply seen when

56:59

you can't see it in yourself can be really transformative

57:02

at the same time in this think sometimes we're so quick,

57:04

so we've got to love ourselves first and we

57:06

do, but sometimes we need help being able

57:08

to do that. A hundred percent. And I think the biggest

57:10

word that I picked up on there was safety.

57:13

I think when I was with Patty, I finally

57:15

felt for whatever reason and obviously

57:17

I said I had Liveing loving childhood and whatever.

57:19

But for some reason like being with him makes

57:21

me feel so safe. And

57:24

I think that you're absolutely right. Like,

57:26

I don't think happiness can be found in

57:28

another person, but I think that when

57:30

we feel safe, we then

57:32

have the breath, the openness,

57:35

the ability to then be able to

57:37

work on ourselves. And I think it is about,

57:40

you know, we can feel safe. Maybe that's with a friend.

57:42

Maybe that's with therapist or a family member.

57:44

But that sense of safety, like, go

57:46

towards those people, go towards

57:49

those people that make you feel

57:51

safe. And I think my experience

57:53

with friendships with certain

57:56

aspects of my family environment. I

57:58

maybe haven't hadn't realized

58:00

this, but I hadn't felt a sense of a hundred percent

58:02

safety. And when that was then offered

58:04

up to me, I then had the complete

58:07

ability to then say, oh

58:09

my god. I can now start to work on

58:12

myself because I feel safe. And I think that's

58:14

such a big thing. And I, you know, to

58:16

anyone listening, I think, find

58:18

your safe places because it's

58:20

only then that we can then really start to,

58:23

like, peel back the layers and be our

58:25

true selves because we've been

58:27

given that sense of safety. And again,

58:29

it's not necessarily with a partner. It

58:31

can be whatever that looks like to you,

58:33

but it's so crucial that you find those places.

58:36

And what do you do now Liveing

58:39

kind of spent the last few years

58:41

learning to be able to say, I am a good person.

58:43

Like, I really like myself. I respect myself.

58:45

Mhmm. And by the way, I found that

58:47

almost impossible to say to myself to start

58:49

with. Like, it felt so sticky and so uncomped

58:52

agreeable. only say that because I think

58:54

if you do have that disconnect and you start

58:56

trying to actively work on it, it almost like

58:59

shines a really blaring light on the fact that

59:01

saying that yourself so difficult. Mhmm.

59:03

I do little affirmations with our kids now

59:05

every day because I'm, like, so desperate

59:08

that they are passionate about, I

59:10

should say, about them to have

59:12

anything I can do to embed that in them from

59:14

an early age being able to say everyday

59:16

they say I'm special, I'm loved, I'm

59:18

powder myself. I'm clever. Mhmm. I'm

59:20

confident. Just so and

59:23

then I can do anything. Whether you should tell toddlers,

59:25

they can to do everything I don't

59:27

know. Yeah. But there's a surprise to buy you that

59:29

one. I think that one will will come and get

59:31

me at some point. But I guess it's that empowerment

59:33

and that, like, could that empowerment be

59:35

innate? And if they're not gonna get it just your

59:37

affirmations, but making that the norm, which I

59:39

never could say to myself ever. And now

59:41

I can, and it's so liberating.

59:44

And I'm I'm interested in what you do now. Like,

59:46

you seem sitting here today exceptionally

59:49

comfortable in your own skin. And more

59:52

so than many people I've ever met in my life,

59:54

which is such a testament to the work that

59:56

you've done and the hard work you've been through in the

59:58

difficult periods to get to this point.

1:00:00

And what do you do now to kind of foster

1:00:03

that to keep that? And I guess to keep growing

1:00:05

it.

1:00:07

I would say going back

1:00:09

to something that we've touched on, being

1:00:12

comfortable with the messy parts of myself,

1:00:14

I think it really is about a

1:00:17

constant sense of

1:00:19

recalibrating where you

1:00:21

feel good, how you feel good,

1:00:24

but knowing that And I've

1:00:26

had actually quite few experiences over

1:00:28

my life where I

1:00:30

have really thought that

1:00:32

I was just an awful person

1:00:35

that I must be really unlikable. I

1:00:37

must be, you know, really

1:00:39

not someone that people want around them.

1:00:41

And I think I just hadn't met the right

1:00:44

people, and I'm sitting here, I'm gonna

1:00:46

turn thirty in a few weeks, and I feel

1:00:48

like I'm only still just meeting my people.

1:00:51

But I think that the

1:00:53

biggest thing that I would say is, one,

1:00:55

being okay with your with your bad

1:00:57

bits, like being totally honest. Like,

1:00:59

learn to love those bits of you. And how

1:01:01

do you work on that on a day to day basis?

1:01:03

Like, if you have those days where you feel those

1:01:05

traits are -- Yeah. -- are more apparent.

1:01:08

Yeah. Do you have a kind of way of talking

1:01:10

to yourself or framing it or thinking about

1:01:12

it? I think it's about being

1:01:14

curious, like, what is this telling me?

1:01:16

I'm really jealous of x and

1:01:18

happens all the time by the way. I can be quite

1:01:21

jealous person of some things like

1:01:23

not necessarily people but like I can be

1:01:25

jealous of physical things or like

1:01:27

say someone's got an amazing handbag. I'm like,

1:01:29

oh, I really want that. And I guess,

1:01:31

yeah, maybe it's at a light a light level of

1:01:33

jealousy, but when sometimes when

1:01:35

the more kind of insidious stuff creeps in,

1:01:38

I would say, like, I try and be more curious

1:01:41

about what that's teaching me. Rather

1:01:43

than instantly labeling it as like, oh, god.

1:01:45

Well, an awful thing to thank you horrible person.

1:01:48

I'm now like, oh, that's interesting. I wonder why

1:01:50

I felt that. That's really weird. Is this

1:01:52

something that might have happened that has

1:01:54

made me think that way? Or can

1:01:56

I look at this a different way? Like, I'm feeling

1:01:59

x, but is there any way that I'd be able to,

1:02:01

like, speak about it or write it down and

1:02:03

actually think about it in a slightly different way.

1:02:05

I still might come out of that and feel the same

1:02:07

way, but at least I can be curious and

1:02:09

observe that emotion in

1:02:12

a much more kind of calm way

1:02:14

rather than the constant internal narrative

1:02:17

being I'm a bad person. I'm a bad person. Oh my

1:02:19

god. I can't believe he thought I can't believe he said

1:02:21

that. And I think that that's

1:02:23

really crucial. And I think being

1:02:26

just generally curious about

1:02:29

how we are allowing things to come

1:02:31

and go. Like, most of us

1:02:33

will have negative thoughts some point,

1:02:35

you know, mine are almost daily.

1:02:37

But I know that they're

1:02:40

not me. They don't make me who

1:02:42

I am. They're just a part of

1:02:44

me and they come in and sometimes they stay for

1:02:46

a bit longer and sometimes they go very quickly

1:02:48

and I can observe them and be curious about

1:02:50

them but don't let them sort of stick to

1:02:53

me like a a label. I just

1:02:55

sort of let them flow in and out

1:02:57

freely, basically. And I know that sounds

1:02:59

really wee wee

1:02:59

wee. It doesn't at all. But

1:03:02

I think stopping defining yourself by

1:03:04

those feelings is incredibly powerful. I

1:03:06

know that was something I found very

1:03:08

liberating. It's created a lot more ease. There's

1:03:10

days where you do feel really

1:03:12

low or you're struggling with something

1:03:14

knowing the that that

1:03:16

Tamari might feel completely different. Yeah. And I

1:03:19

definitely used to be one of those people that would be,

1:03:21

like, almost, like, suddenly define myself

1:03:23

by and find it hard

1:03:25

to move out of. I

1:03:27

think you're absolutely right. And we we

1:03:29

often try to put

1:03:31

such binary sort of labels on ourselves

1:03:34

and define ourselves by certain metrics

1:03:37

and actually I'm gonna say

1:03:39

it again, but I think, like, ultimately,

1:03:42

for me anyway, the

1:03:44

most important thing is that I can go to bed

1:03:46

knowing, I'm kind, I'm nice.

1:03:48

I'm

1:03:48

a good person. I did my best. I did my best.

1:03:50

Exactly. I

1:03:52

just think that if I can ground myself

1:03:55

in that, everything else can sort of

1:03:58

go, you know, and I think that that's

1:04:00

that's something that I really, really do try and do.

1:04:02

I also think, like, I I think journaling

1:04:04

is massive. Just as a side note. I do

1:04:06

think that it helps you to be really curious about your

1:04:08

thoughts, and it's probably the only

1:04:10

place that you can be one hundred percent

1:04:12

vulnerable, you know, and be able to just like

1:04:15

get that out onto a page. Yeah.

1:04:17

I think being less

1:04:20

obsessed with like these kind

1:04:22

of definitive versions

1:04:24

of ourselves and parts of ourselves and just

1:04:26

sort of allowing ourselves to be quite

1:04:28

fluid and I guess knowing what's

1:04:30

really important to you when you line nine

1:04:33

bed at night. What is gonna make you

1:04:35

feel whole? You know, maybe that's not being a good person.

1:04:37

Maybe it's other things for you. But whatever it

1:04:39

is, like, just make sure you can always ground yourself

1:04:41

back to that basically. And you talked

1:04:43

about journaling there. Do you have any habits that

1:04:45

you do kind of daily or daily

1:04:47

ish weekly that you feel

1:04:50

keep you feeling

1:04:51

well. Yeah. So I'm

1:04:54

terrible with actual journaling. But

1:04:57

I use an app called dailey Owen. I'm

1:04:59

in no way affiliated to them. This is just

1:05:01

I found it by chance on Twitter. Someone

1:05:03

was talking about it. And as someone

1:05:05

who really struggles to journal, it's

1:05:08

basically an app that you kind of

1:05:10

track your mood on. So you say how you feel

1:05:12

each day, you can put loads of different

1:05:14

metrics in terms of like how you slept blah blah

1:05:16

blah, whatever. But it has

1:05:18

little space at the bottom to just do a bit of a

1:05:20

note for each day. And I probably write maybe

1:05:23

four sentences like max

1:05:25

each day, but it is so

1:05:28

nice and I get a little notification that's

1:05:30

the best part because otherwise I forget I get

1:05:32

a notification at eight o'clock every night saying have

1:05:34

you done it? So it reminds

1:05:37

me to and it means that I literally just

1:05:39

before I go to bed, or when I'm getting ready to

1:05:41

wind down have a bit of an offload of

1:05:43

whatever hap what's happened that day, you know,

1:05:45

good, bad, whatever. I write

1:05:47

it down. I feel

1:05:49

like I've sort of offloaded a little bit.

1:05:51

And then I go to bed and I forget about

1:05:53

it. And I actually find it fascinating to

1:05:56

go back and read like these little journal entries.

1:05:58

And I think a lot of people can feel

1:06:00

like they need this like proper paper

1:06:03

diary

1:06:03

and, like, get that pen out and

1:06:05

kind of be doing, like, sitting at the

1:06:07

toilet paper. Yeah. Exactly. And I'm like,

1:06:09

oh, I'm gonna be totally honest, I can't be doing

1:06:11

with that. But an app where it's like

1:06:13

interactive and it gives me that reminder every

1:06:15

night to do it is perfect for me and

1:06:17

it's like I said, four sentences max,

1:06:20

but it's really really good to sort of just

1:06:22

have that little bit of an offload and I sleep better

1:06:24

for

1:06:24

it. And are there any other

1:06:26

things that you do kind of daily

1:06:28

ish to keep yourself well? Yeah.

1:06:31

I think we spoke earlier about reframing

1:06:33

what health is and understanding that

1:06:35

it's gonna be different to everyone and my

1:06:38

version of my best self right

1:06:40

now is having few non

1:06:42

negotiables but being really loose on

1:06:44

them. I think the things that I probably stick

1:06:46

to the most are sleep. It's

1:06:48

so crucial for me. I am a

1:06:51

great person when I've said well, and I'm not the

1:06:53

best person when I haven't. And I know that

1:06:55

probably go completely out the window if and when

1:06:57

God willing I have a family, but like for now

1:06:59

sleep is really important to me. I

1:07:01

would say that movement and that's not

1:07:03

specific exercise daily movement, whether

1:07:05

that is literally walking, stretching,

1:07:08

doing something that moves my body,

1:07:11

usually like, in the morning is

1:07:13

really crucial and I find that helps things like my

1:07:15

cognitive function, my ability to

1:07:17

sleep, my stress levels, my cortisol,

1:07:19

all that sort of stuff. So movements. Do

1:07:21

you try and do the movement first thing? If

1:07:23

I can, but it's not always possible. But

1:07:25

if I can, yes, because then I have

1:07:28

no excuse not to do it. Things totally

1:07:30

honest. Yeah. I would say when

1:07:32

it comes to food, I am so

1:07:34

loose when it comes to I don't have any

1:07:36

and I've had to work really hard get to this point by

1:07:39

the way. So it sounds very like lovely,

1:07:41

but I don't have any food like rules

1:07:43

as such. I try and be really intuitive,

1:07:47

but I do try and eat a lot of

1:07:49

green stuff and colorful stuff. And I

1:07:51

guess my only thing that I would say I

1:07:53

relatively sick to is variety. In

1:07:55

terms of what I understand to be good for our.

1:07:58

Health and well-being, we know that particularly a variety

1:08:00

of plant based foods is great for us. So

1:08:03

I think across the week, I just try and eat lots of

1:08:05

different colors and lots of different vegetables and

1:08:07

fruits. It's not like a rule, but

1:08:09

it's something that's quite nice to aim towards

1:08:11

And then my my exercises is my

1:08:13

escape, you know. I I

1:08:15

really had to work on my relationship with exercise

1:08:17

and not be totally honest. There were times when I had to

1:08:19

just stop completely because I was

1:08:22

very like, all or nothing and it

1:08:24

led to me, you know, doing lots of exercise

1:08:26

and then binging or doing nothing and then feeling terrible

1:08:29

about myself in it. Know, I went through this horrible

1:08:31

cycle, but I really feel like now

1:08:33

I use exercise

1:08:36

as part of a toolkit of stuff makes

1:08:38

me feel good. It's not the only thing, and

1:08:40

I think it's really important for it not to

1:08:42

be the coping mechanism because

1:08:45

as with most things in life, you can have too much of

1:08:47

a good thing. And I definitely went down that

1:08:49

path, but it is definitely part of

1:08:51

my toolkit. And it's something

1:08:53

that I think for headspace for

1:08:56

feeling physically empowered. It's

1:08:59

amazing. And I genuinely enjoy

1:09:01

my training and have such a good balance with

1:09:03

it now. And it's something that I really

1:09:05

see as, like I said, a part of what

1:09:07

makes me feel good but not everything.

1:09:10

Yeah. I love that. I I totally agree

1:09:12

I've said in in how empowering moving

1:09:14

your body can be almost like the most

1:09:16

empowering thing when you feel strong

1:09:19

or you feel like you're growing in strength

1:09:21

is. Unbelievable. It

1:09:23

really is. But, Alice, thank

1:09:25

you so much for your time today.

1:09:27

Honestly, it's been absolutely amazing.

1:09:30

I just so appreciate you being so honest,

1:09:33

but also just so kind of deeply relatable

1:09:35

and said, like, your, you know, your non negotiables

1:09:38

and the things you do to keep well. Again,

1:09:40

like, they're all just so easy and I think is a

1:09:42

kind of closing thought. I

1:09:44

hope that is what people take away from everything

1:09:46

we've talked about today, which is their again,

1:09:49

well knows well-being, the health space,

1:09:51

whatever one you want to call out, you know, four

1:09:53

point five trillion dollar industry. There is

1:09:56

focused a lot more on complicated things

1:09:59

and quite expensive things and quite docmatic

1:10:01

things, quite reductive things, and a lot

1:10:03

of tracking and all the rest of it.

1:10:05

And I'm not saying that nothing has a place.

1:10:07

I'm not saying that nothing has value. We're all different.

1:10:09

What has value to me is different to you and

1:10:12

and so on. But I think

1:10:14

what's powerful is just this point that, like,

1:10:16

what's really you confidence and joy

1:10:18

and fulfillment and, like, a true sense

1:10:20

of health, mental, and physical. You

1:10:23

know, is a relationship with yourself, is being

1:10:25

compassionate to yourself, is,

1:10:27

you know, trying to sleep more and trying to

1:10:29

do some exercise and eat more colorful

1:10:32

foods and write down a few thoughts, like

1:10:34

all of these things which are so I

1:10:36

say simple and and I it's not as

1:10:38

easy as flicking a switch. You know, there's lots of

1:10:41

other kind of nuances and relationships past

1:10:43

and present that make some of those things more complicated,

1:10:46

but I do think it's just It's symbolic

1:10:48

of the fact that health can be more

1:10:50

fun, more fluid, and more accessible

1:10:52

than I think that we sometimes think it is.

1:10:55

A hundred percent definitely. And look,

1:10:57

feels like a real full circle moment to be sat here

1:10:59

because I'm like, I've literally followed you for years.

1:11:02

Hello, I can't believe I wanted to wish the other forecasts,

1:11:04

but I think I

1:11:07

I love what you've done and I think

1:11:09

that it's just so nice that it

1:11:11

feels like a lot of us have been on a bit of a

1:11:13

full circle moment and a kind of just

1:11:15

a nice journey and it and it's so nice to

1:11:17

see it's so nice to see people doing well. It's

1:11:20

so nice to see people doing their thing

1:11:22

and being happy and and I think that

1:11:24

I look to everyone I follow online and I just

1:11:26

want best for them and I think it's just

1:11:28

yeah. It's amazing to have people like

1:11:30

yourself and and many others doing

1:11:32

things that I think are wonderful, varying and wonderful

1:11:34

in health and wellness

1:11:35

space. So, no, thank you so so much for having

1:11:37

me.

1:11:37

It's been such a pleasure. Such pleasure and good luck

1:11:39

with your web doing.

1:11:40

Oh, thank you. Yes.

1:11:43

The next journey. Thank

1:11:47

you so much for listening to that. I hope

1:11:49

that it resonated with you. I hope

1:11:51

there were moments of inspiration and

1:11:53

ideas for your own personal growth.

1:11:56

I certainly took a huge mouth from Alison.

1:11:58

They have to say Liveing opposite her. She

1:12:01

radiates self confidence and self

1:12:03

belief in a way that I feels unusual

1:12:06

and in such a genuine way, which is just

1:12:08

really special to be around actually. And

1:12:10

I so appreciate how honest she is,

1:12:12

how candid she is, and I think body

1:12:15

image is such a universal challenge

1:12:17

and something that we need to open

1:12:19

up the conversations around, and I think she did

1:12:22

that. So beautifully and so honestly.

1:12:25

And as always, in terms of this empowerment,

1:12:28

these tools for your life will be compiling

1:12:30

the tools that we have fit those universal

1:12:32

themes on feel better our apps.

1:12:34

So if there are themes here that

1:12:36

resonate with you, you can find that tool

1:12:38

kit. As always, same for all

1:12:40

our previous episodes and all the details

1:12:43

for that are in the show notes. And

1:12:45

please