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0:59

Welcome to Wellness with Ella, the

1:01

deliciously Ella podcast. This

1:03

is a podcast that aims to inspire you,

1:05

to empower you, to leave you feeling uplifted.

1:09

Every week, me and my guests will candidly

1:11

reveal our personal journeys of

1:14

transforming times of great difficulty

1:16

into times of enormous personal

1:18

growth. How did our guests get to

1:20

where they are today? been their biggest

1:23

challenges? What practices

1:25

and habits have really genuinely moved

1:27

the needle for them and how do they keep moving forward?

1:30

Wellness with Ella has the simple mission

1:32

of giving you unfiltered, empowering conversations

1:35

that give you the tools, knowledge and inspiration

1:38

to transform your own life and your

1:40

own health.

1:43

Our guest today is Jessie Inchusebe,

1:46

aka the glucose goddess. And

1:49

if you don't know Jessie, she's a French

1:51

biochemist, the author of the number

1:53

one international best-selling book Glucose

1:56

Revolution and the founder of

1:58

the Glucose Goddess Moo.

4:02

Well, Jesse, welcome to the show. It's such

4:04

a pleasure to see you. Thanks for having me, Ella.

4:07

I mean, God, what a year you've had.

4:10

We were just talking before we started recording. It

4:12

was only last April that your

4:14

first book, The Glucose Revolution,

4:16

came out. And it's been translated

4:18

into 41 languages. I mean,

4:20

it's just been this extraordinary sensation.

4:23

Everywhere I go, I see it. We

4:25

have had a lot of requests to have

4:28

a chat with you on the show so I think we're gonna have a lot

4:30

of happy listeners today but before

4:32

we get into your story and why you do

4:34

what you do today I would love

4:37

you to introduce

4:37

yourself you know lots of people might know

4:39

you through your work through your Instagram account

4:41

the glucose goddess but who's Jesse?

4:44

Oh good question well I'm

4:46

French I love cats I

4:49

love music I love chocolate I love

4:51

sleeping I'm a

4:54

scientist I'm also a people person

4:57

I love connecting deeply

5:00

with somebody I meet at a dinner party. I

5:02

love fluffy things. I love having

5:05

my fluffy coats on me at all times.

5:08

Yeah, I'm a whole person, you know? And it's true that

5:10

people see the glucose goddess, and they think

5:12

I'm this, like,

5:13

perfect being who never eats sugar

5:16

and is just like blah, blah, blah. But

5:19

yeah, many things. Many things. I'm a sister.

5:23

I'm a daughter. I'm a friend. I'm

5:25

a teacher. and the writer, lots

5:28

of stuff. I love that. And

5:30

that's the point of that first question, is that I

5:32

think we all are those things,

5:34

but I think sometimes we don't see that in each

5:37

other. And we think of ourselves, or we

5:39

think of each of other people as quite

5:41

almost one-dimensional

5:42

beings. Or we see someone

5:44

through their professional life, and we kind of

5:46

forget that they too like cats and

5:49

fluffy things.

5:49

I love fluffy things. So

5:52

I appreciate that. And how are you doing today?

5:54

I'm doing well. I'm in a very grateful

5:57

phase right now. you know, I mean it's always up and...

6:00

down, but right now I just feel so

6:02

proud of this past year and so proud of what I've

6:05

been able to overcome and

6:07

what I've been able to create. And

6:11

the feeling I have is sort of like

6:14

the doors are open in front of

6:16

me and now it's just a matter of

6:18

stepping through them in a thoughtful way

6:20

and in the best way I possibly can. So

6:23

that's my current feeling. That's a

6:25

very beautiful feeling. And

6:27

I guess before we rewind

6:30

and understand the journey

6:32

and the experience that you had to

6:34

get to where you are today and to create

6:37

and cultivate that feeling, because that's

6:39

a pretty extraordinary place to be in

6:42

your life. And I think a place that so many people

6:44

would love to be at and the inspiration of how

6:46

you got there, I think is very, very meaningful. Because

6:49

one of the things I so want to show on this show is

6:51

the fact that that's not just a given, it's not just

6:53

doesn't just arrive, It takes a huge amount

6:55

of hard work and sometimes kind

6:57

of the depths of darkness in order to get

7:00

to those places of light. And the more we

7:02

see that in other people, the more

7:04

I believe we're able to say, you know what, I

7:06

can do that too. If I understand your personal

7:09

growth and your transformation, there's

7:11

bits that I can relate to and feel

7:13

I too could become the person I want

7:15

to be or unlock the things that I want in my life.

7:17

And I find that deeply inspirational. So

7:20

I'm very excited to get into that. But

7:22

did you ever think you'd be doing what you

7:24

do today, being who you are today? I mean, it

7:26

must feel extraordinary. It's very

7:29

odd. I don't think I've fully processed it. When I was

7:31

a teenager, I wanted to

7:32

be a singer and

7:33

I had all these Britney Spears posters in my room and

7:35

I just loved singing. No,

7:38

I never thought I would be at this

7:40

point, but in a way, now that I'm here, it

7:42

also feels quite good. I do

7:44

feel like a part of my soul has arrived

7:46

in the place that she was supposed to be. So

7:49

it's a bit of that duality. On the one

7:51

hand, I can't fathom the fact

7:53

that there's all these readers of my

7:55

books and people stopping me in the street and the followers

7:57

and everything and that I exist.

8:00

outside of just my relationship to

8:02

myself, that people have a relationship

8:04

to me that I don't know them, that's

8:06

really interesting. So no, I never thought

8:09

that this would happen, but yeah, at the same time,

8:11

a part of

8:13

me feels okay and ready and comfortable

8:16

with it. And so

8:18

if we rewind to

8:21

understand what was the kind of beginning of

8:23

the journey to get to that place, am

8:25

I right in saying it really started

8:28

when you were 19 And up until that

8:30

point, you hadn't thought a huge amount

8:32

about your mental health or your physical health.

8:34

Absolutely. So when I was a kid, I had no

8:37

passions except singing Britney Spears songs.

8:39

Actually, who doesn't have that? Right. I

8:41

had to get it. Nothing, when I was

8:43

a teenager, nothing like grabbed

8:46

me. I wasn't passionate about animals

8:48

or about geology. I didn't really

8:50

have any

8:50

passions. I was just a really good student

8:53

with a very calm, healthy life.

8:56

And so it was a bit tough for me because I felt like, oh

8:58

man, I just don't like anything. I don't

9:00

know what to do with my life. And

9:03

then when I was 19, that's when things

9:05

started to change. But it

9:07

wasn't like in a big moment of joy,

9:10

like, oh my God, I figured everything out.

9:12

You know, I want to work in health. Actually, it was

9:14

kind of the opposite. Something really intense happened

9:16

to me. I broke my back jumping off

9:18

a waterfall. And in a second,

9:21

my life

9:22

completely switched from this innocence

9:25

of youth to this It's like immense pain,

9:29

fear of death, a lot of physical

9:32

problems and mental health problems afterwards.

9:35

And I talk about that 19 year old moment like the

9:37

beginning of the journey, but really it was more the beginning

9:39

of the pain. And that pain lasted,

9:41

you know, six, seven, eight years until

9:44

I finally saw some light. And out

9:46

of that light I've created what I made today, but

9:49

it was a lot of suffering to even get to

9:51

the first little speck of light. Do

9:54

you mind if we kind of hone in a little

9:56

bit on what happened? because...

10:00

Obviously, everyone's got their own stories and everyone

10:02

listening will have their own moments of challenge

10:04

and hardship in their lives. And it might be something

10:07

physical like you experience. And that was my

10:09

catalyst moment as well. And it probably would have been

10:11

actually very similar time and it was a physical

10:13

challenge. But sometimes it's an emotional

10:16

challenge. You know, maybe it's grief. It's

10:18

so many different factors for all of us. But I

10:20

think there's something in understanding. Again,

10:23

I don't think we often talk about what these things

10:25

really feel like and how difficult

10:28

and dark and low it can get. And

10:30

A, that there's a way out of that, but B, that

10:32

that is normal. Those can be normal feelings.

10:35

And certainly, and I know something you've talked

10:37

about, I felt incredibly alone

10:39

when I was going through that. And it sounds like it was the same

10:41

for you. And that's something else I really want

10:44

to normalize. Cause I think, especially in terms

10:46

of opening up and really opening up

10:48

about mental health, we've got to be kind

10:50

of completely candid about that. So

10:53

you're in Hawaii with your friends, is that right? and

10:55

you just having a really fun day? Yeah,

10:57

I just, you know, I

10:59

was in the prime of my teenage years.

11:01

I thought I was invincible. My two male

11:03

friends jumped off this waterfall

11:06

and they said, hey, Jesse, you do it. And of course, you know, I

11:08

wanted to be cool. I've always had this

11:10

thing where I've really wanted to be cool.

11:12

And so I pretended I wasn't scared.

11:15

And I was like, yeah, I'll do it, no problem.

11:17

And so I climbed to the top of this waterfall

11:19

and I looked down and I'm like, oh my God, that's really

11:21

scary. How high was that? 10 meters, 30

11:24

feet. Yeah, very high. So pretty

11:27

high for your first ever jump out

11:29

of anything.

11:29

And my two male friends

11:31

had told me, land really straight with

11:34

your feet and then your whole body like really

11:36

straight above your feet. And so as

11:38

I leapt off the edge of the cliff,

11:41

that feeling in my stomach of like, you

11:43

know, when you feel like you're falling, well, I was falling and I

11:45

completely forgot to be straight. And

11:48

I landed just a tiny bit

11:50

sitting down, just a tiny bit and

11:52

total freak incident. my basically my

11:55

tailbone took the pressure and it went up above my

11:57

spine and one of my and I've already raised it

11:59

into three. pieces. And

12:02

I

12:02

immediately felt a lot

12:04

of pain and then I got out of the

12:06

water. I was like, could you

12:08

swim out of the water yourself? I could,

12:11

yes. I think of the adrenaline in that moment

12:13

that allows me to do anything. But the problem is you couldn't

12:15

see anything. There was no bruising, no blood. Like

12:18

I wasn't bent in half because of my muscles

12:20

were holding me. So to the outside, it

12:22

looked like maybe I had just pulled the muscle. So

12:24

I walked back to the car for a mile

12:27

with my broken back and like I had just wrapped

12:29

a towel around myself. And then

12:31

I spent 24

12:32

hours at home laying in bed thinking it was just

12:34

a muscle thing. And then finally

12:37

the next day I tell my mom, listen,

12:39

it's not getting better when you need to go see a doctor. So

12:41

we see a first chiropractor who touches

12:44

my back and I go, ow, ow. He's like, no, you have

12:46

to go to the hospital. So I go to the hospital

12:49

in Hawaii, they do a scan and they finally

12:51

see the bones are broken. Then

12:53

I spent two weeks laying down

12:55

in the room in Hawaii because my parents were

12:57

trying to decide what to do, like where

13:00

I was going to get surgery. And

13:02

being flown back on a medical plane

13:04

all the way back to Switzerland to

13:06

have surgery there. Anyway, long,

13:08

long story,

13:09

but I waited a long time in that state

13:11

of not being allowed to move,

13:14

knowing my back was broken, but nothing was happening.

13:16

And then finally the day of the surgery came and

13:19

very complicated,

13:21

intense surgery.

13:24

But then when I woke up, the physical stuff started

13:26

getting better and in a matter of a month, my physical

13:29

health was back, thank God. And the

13:31

surgeons did an amazing job. But

13:34

then what nobody had told me about nor prepared

13:36

me for is that my mental health and my

13:38

brain really started suffering. And I remember

13:40

the first symptoms. I

13:43

just kind of felt like I was in a dream.

13:45

was a little bit fuzzy

13:48

around me, I felt like there was sort

13:50

of a veil between me and reality

13:53

and then it just kept getting worse and worse and worse to

13:55

the point where when I looked in the mirror I

13:58

would become super anxious. I was like.

16:00

States, and there were many aggravating

16:02

factors to those moments

16:04

and those episodes of difficult mental health.

16:07

And I know that this will always be with me, but

16:09

now, for example, like just the fact

16:11

that I'm in London right now for a week and I have an Airbnb

16:14

and I'm living there on my own and I

16:16

feel fine, it's

16:18

amazing. I'm so

16:21

grateful that I have that. I used to never

16:23

be able to ever be alone because of the

16:26

deep fear of existence I was feeling. And

16:29

did you start to work with anyone or any

16:31

professionals or you were really kind

16:33

of trying to go through it on your

16:35

own? I did. I found a therapist.

16:37

I found a woman who was doing cranial sacral therapy. She really

16:40

helped me. But ultimately

16:42

I felt quite alone. It's not until I moved

16:44

to California and that people around me started

16:46

talking about trauma and energies

16:48

that

16:48

I felt a bit more understood. I was

16:50

living in London at the time and I just didn't

16:53

have the community around me to be supported

16:55

or understood. People just looked at me a little bit

16:58

weird. And I was like, I don't know why

17:00

I'm in a body. You know, they were like, okay,

17:03

okay. But it's not their fault,

17:05

you know, bless them if you have never gone through that and

17:07

I don't wish this on anyone. How

17:09

could you relate it stuff?

17:11

How do you feel you got

17:13

out of the kind of depths of the darkness 18

17:16

months later? What do you think it was that

17:18

really allowed

17:20

you? It sounds like it was a kind of

17:22

journey over five, six, seven years to really

17:24

get to a place

17:26

further away from that, but to be able to

17:28

feel you could kind of live for once, for a

17:30

better word, more normally. I think writing

17:33

really helped me just.

17:36

I bought this diary and I started writing

17:38

all my fears on my anxiety, all my

17:40

suffering, and I started having a bit more of a relationship

17:42

with myself. So, you know, like self-compassion,

17:45

being more in touch with what I needed, how to make

17:47

myself feel loved and cared

17:49

for. I think that's totally helped. But

17:51

to be honest, I mean, it

17:54

was so gradual.

17:56

I think just as I grew into.

18:00

myself

18:01

this slowly subsided because I was

18:03

able to bring in more and more practices over time

18:05

but it was not like one day it was

18:08

all gone it was very very slow

18:10

and therapy really helped

18:13

figuring out my food situation really

18:15

helped figuring out how to

18:17

even like set boundaries around me and

18:19

just take get better care of myself how to

18:21

handle my stress all these small

18:24

things of me growing into a new

18:26

version of myself slowly made

18:28

that feeling go away. But it's not

18:30

until, I

18:31

think maybe one or two years ago, that

18:33

I've been really feeling OK,

18:36

really fully OK. I

18:38

think that's such an amazing

18:40

example of the fact that it's it's not

18:43

a quick journey when you start addressing

18:45

various facets of your life. And we always

18:48

so wanted to be. But it's very

18:50

inspiring to see that you've got to this place,

18:52

but it's taken you a long period of

18:54

time to get that. And when you're in those moments,

18:57

and I'm sure a lot of listeners will relate, when

18:59

your mental health is so broken, you

19:01

think this is going to be you forever. Like

19:03

your brain plays this trick on you, whether

19:05

you're going through an anxiety phase, a

19:08

depressive

19:08

phase, whatever, your brain is telling you

19:10

this is forever, this is you.

19:13

And I felt so much like that.

19:15

And now I know that's just a trick that your brain

19:17

plays on you. So it's important to know that because

19:19

that really helped

19:22

me not give up. I

19:24

was like, I think this is not

19:26

gonna be forever. Like I think there

19:28

was a little thing inside me telling me that

19:31

someday it was gonna be okay.

19:34

And that kept me going, I think. If you

19:36

could rewind and give that version

19:38

of you one piece of advice or

19:40

one piece of advice for anyone who feels like they're

19:42

in that place right now, what would

19:45

it be? The first thing that

19:47

came to mind is

19:50

do some ceremonies for yourself.

19:53

like small little things like sit

19:56

in your bedroom, light a candle,

19:58

write something.

20:00

and just like give yourself love and

20:03

self-compassion and space

20:05

and time and connect with

20:07

your soul and tell her that it's gonna be okay. I

20:09

think for me, that would have been so wonderful to have

20:11

as a tool and also just the

20:13

fact that it's not forever, it is not

20:16

forever. Like you will get through this. And

20:18

even if I know right now it feels like you're never gonna

20:21

get through this and you're gonna feel like this forever, you're

20:23

not. And that's really, really important

20:25

to know.

20:26

And was it this deep

20:28

connection with yourself and starting to cultivate

20:30

that and this desire to take that deeper, is

20:33

that what led you to look at genes

20:36

and eventually go and work in that area?

20:38

Yes, absolutely. And genes, by the way, I mean

20:39

from a biological perspective, not what

20:42

you are for anything. I'm here to talk about my denim brand. Yeah,

20:45

absolutely. So I was telling you that at

20:47

that young age, I felt like, wow, my health is my greatest

20:49

wealth. If I don't have my health, I have nothing. And

20:52

I remember thinking so clearly, if

20:54

my mental health and my physical health are not good, it

20:56

doesn't matter what I'm studying, what career

20:58

I have, like what I'm doing, what I'm wearing, nothing

21:01

matters if you don't have your health. And so

21:03

from that place of being that young girl that had no

21:05

interest, no passions, nothing, and

21:07

I was studying math at the time in London, and

21:09

the only reason I was doing that is because I

21:12

had

21:12

no

21:13

idea of what to study, and my stepdad told

21:15

me, if you don't know what to do,

21:18

do the hardest thing you can. And so I went to study mathematics,

21:21

literally out of that, like not because

21:23

I particularly liked it. And

21:25

finally I had found something that I wanted to

21:27

dive deeper into. And that's

21:29

when I thought, okay, I'm going to learn about the body. I'm going

21:31

to try to figure out how this machine

21:34

works so that I can reconnect with

21:36

this biological organism,

21:38

right? That I felt so alienated from.

21:41

So I went to the US, studied

21:43

biochemistry in grad school, and then

21:46

I moved to Silicon Valley to be

21:48

in the field of genetics, because at the time

21:50

a lot of people thought

21:52

DNA is the future, right? If we understand

21:54

our genes, we understand everything. So I wondered,

21:57

maybe if I understand my DNA better, I'm gonna

21:59

know what.

22:00

need to do so that I can finally feel

22:02

good. Turns out that wasn't

22:04

exactly the case. But

22:06

while I was there is when this

22:09

wonderful universe

22:11

gift happened, I discovered glucose.

22:14

And that really, you know, that was maybe

22:16

five years, six years after going

22:18

to study in grad school. That's

22:21

when I felt like I had reached a new level

22:23

of interest and I had found a new topic that

22:25

could really help me. And before we

22:27

go into that topic and about nutrition and

22:29

glucose, I would love to get your 101

22:34

on why DNA

22:36

isn't the future, why our genes don't dictate

22:39

who we are.

22:39

Because I think it's a very interesting reflection

22:42

point on the fact that personal

22:46

responsibility is very difficult. And

22:48

I have certainly found it very difficult at times to

22:50

take personal responsibility for my health. making

22:54

healthy decisions takes time

22:56

and it takes discipline and

22:58

it's not always the easy option. But

23:02

actually our daily choices and our lifestyle

23:04

choices have

23:06

almost a bigger impact than anything

23:08

else and I think we so often say, well, I'm just born

23:10

like

23:11

this, this is how I feel and

23:13

there's nothing I can do about it, these are my genes.

23:16

That's

23:16

not really the case, right? It's

23:19

not. And the reason science

23:21

has discovered that's not the case the case is because after

23:23

the discovery of DNA and this huge,

23:26

you know, enthusiasm about this very cool

23:28

piece of the human body, scientists

23:30

started discovering that two people can

23:33

have the exact same DNA, that is,

23:35

identical twins who have, you know, letter

23:37

for letter, base pair for base pair, the

23:40

same genetic code, A

23:41

to Z, can have very

23:43

different health situations. One

23:47

might be depressed and the other one might not be.

23:49

One may have heart disease

23:52

and the other one might not. And

23:54

scientists started asking themselves, okay, so how

23:57

is it possible that two people who have the exact same

23:59

genetic code.

24:00

have such different

24:01

health outcomes and such different lives.

24:04

And that's when they started understanding that actually your

24:07

DNA is a bit like the blueprint in

24:09

your house. So it's the nice line drawing

24:11

of your house, but then

24:14

your daily choices, they're the ones

24:16

that buy the furniture, paint the

24:18

walls, invite your friends over, cook

24:20

dinner. You know, it's like a completely different experience.

24:23

And while your DNA is really

24:26

that blueprint,

24:27

your lifestyle choices, your

24:29

stress levels, your job, who

24:31

you surround yourself with, your microbiome,

24:34

all these different factors really determine

24:36

your health much more. There

24:38

are a few exceptions. Some people have very

24:41

rare or very intense genetic mutations

24:44

that mean they will have a genetic disease.

24:47

And in those cases, you know, that

24:49

sort of takes precedent over most other

24:51

things.

24:52

But for the vast majority

24:54

of people, and it's the lifestyle

24:57

choices and

24:58

the way that we choose to spend decades of

25:01

our lives that make the big impact on our health.

25:03

And I think that's a very powerful

25:05

and also almost scary revelation.

25:08

And I'm curious how you felt when you sort

25:10

of almost discovered you'd gone there and You're like,

25:12

jeans, it's the answer. I'm going

25:14

to get to know myself only to realize,

25:17

actually, there was still kind of a really

25:19

big gap in your knowledge in being

25:21

able to truly understand, why do I

25:23

feel this way today versus yesterday

25:26

versus tomorrow? It was very disappointing.

25:29

Very disappointing. I thought that

25:31

my jeans were going to be able to tell me how

25:34

to wake up in the morning feeling good

25:36

and feeling healthy. I thought my jeans were going

25:38

to be able to tell me what to eat. I thought

25:40

my jeans were going to tell me all sorts of very

25:43

prescriptive information, turns

25:46

out not at all. So your genes

25:48

may influence your risk of a certain condition

25:51

by 2%, 3%,

25:51

but they

25:54

don't tell you what to do. They don't tell you

25:56

what to do at all to wake up feeling well. So I

25:58

felt disappointed but I also felt

26:00

like I had learned a lot in

26:02

that experience of working in that genetics

26:04

company about how to

26:06

communicate science in an easy and fun way.

26:08

And when I was there,

26:10

I had no idea what was ahead of me. I had no idea I

26:12

was going to go into glucose, but it's funny looking

26:14

back how it feels like life almost prepares you,

26:17

you know, and the skills I learned working there

26:19

about turning science into applicable

26:22

tips or making something as complex as genetics

26:25

into something people could understand has prepared

26:28

me so well for the work I do today.

26:30

And so what was the kind of next

26:32

step on your journey to become, I guess,

26:35

empowered with the knowledge to start to understand

26:38

what is it that impacts your

26:40

day to day? As you said, that every single person

26:42

I would bet very strongly

26:44

wants to wake up and feel great in the

26:46

morning. That's what we all long for in our

26:48

lives, isn't it? And I think we all quite want to be

26:50

told how to do that. We're all looking

26:53

for that magic answer. Is that what you felt

26:55

you set off to do now? So

26:57

I didn't actually know what was going to happen

27:00

next.

27:00

I had no clue. I was still working there,

27:02

and I liked my job. And I was like, OK, maybe this is

27:04

it. But then I had the opportunity.

27:08

That really changed things for me. So

27:10

in Silicon Valley, people are always testing new devices,

27:13

new technologies and stuff. And so one day at work,

27:17

this little pilot project sees

27:20

the light of day, and the R&D team

27:23

says, we're going to test out glucose monitors, which

27:25

are devices invented for

27:27

people with diabetes to measure blood sugar

27:29

levels. But let's do it in people without diabetes

27:31

and kind of see what happens. And so I don't

27:33

know why, but I raised my hand. I was like, yeah, I'll do

27:36

that. And so I put the glucose

27:38

monitor on, and then I started tracking my

27:40

blood sugar levels. And I would see them on my iPhone, like

27:43

spikes and dips and spikes and dips. And I think it

27:45

was on day four or something of wearing this glucose

27:47

monitor. I feel that intense

27:51

mental health episode come about. So,

27:54

you know, dissociation, look at my hands, they're

27:56

not mine, super intense brain fog,

27:58

like just feeling horrible, anxious.

29:45

various

30:00

different publications about blood sugar

30:03

and the fact that it can be incredibly important,

30:05

particularly for energy levels, which again is something

30:07

that feels like a universal challenge.

30:10

We all want more energy. If you were gonna

30:12

give a one-on-one on blood

30:14

sugar and why managing

30:16

your blood sugar levels is so important,

30:19

could you do that for us? Absolutely, my pleasure.

30:22

So blood sugar also called glucose

30:24

is your body's favorite source

30:26

of energy. And so every single cell

30:28

in your body, whether

30:30

it's your brain cells or your gut cells

30:32

or your finger, toe cells, use

30:34

glucose for energy. So it's really

30:37

important for the human body. And the main

30:39

way that we give glucose to our body

30:41

is through eating starchy foods, so

30:44

pasta, rice, bread,

30:46

potatoes, and sweet foods. So

30:48

anything that tastes sweet from a chocolate cake

30:50

to a banana. And you might think,

30:53

and this is what I used to think, okay, if my

30:55

body needs glucose for energy, and as you

30:57

said, everybody wants more energy, then I should

30:59

try to eat as much glucose as possible

31:02

to give my body as much energy as possible.

31:04

Well, that's actually where things break down. So

31:07

it's a bit like this lovely plant you have in this room.

31:09

This plant needs some water to

31:12

survive, and you probably give it some water every

31:14

week. But if you give the plant too much water,

31:16

the plant will probably die. The human

31:18

body is the same. Some glucose is really

31:21

good, too much glucose and

31:23

problems start happening. For me, those

31:25

moments of too much glucose were

31:27

leading to mental health issues. But the

31:29

most common symptoms are, as you mentioned,

31:32

like fatigue and just uneven energy,

31:34

feeling like lethargic,

31:36

needing coffee,

31:38

just feeling exhausted all the time, chronic fatigue.

31:41

Second are cravings. So cravings for sweet

31:43

foods, which I used to have all the time, by the

31:45

way. Cravings for sweet foods throughout

31:47

the day, whatever's sweet and sugary

31:49

next to you, like you probably want to eat it at

31:51

some point during the day. And then things

31:54

like brain fog, lack of focus, that's

31:56

also very linked to your glucose levels. And

31:58

then we also see, of course,

34:00

And it sounds so strange to say that it's now because

34:02

it's 12 years later and plant-based

34:04

interest and health is obviously everywhere, but 12 years

34:07

ago, nobody was talking about this. No one

34:09

was interested. You know, eye rolls

34:11

left, right and center when I started talking

34:14

about it and started saying, how you

34:16

eat is linked to different diseases. And what

34:19

now is I think, well, mostly

34:21

accepted, but I think there's still a kind of challenge

34:24

on it in some places, but

34:26

it was a very interesting moment. I felt this

34:28

kind of like fire

34:30

in me to say, this is changing

34:32

my life and other people need

34:34

to know about this too. And

34:37

suddenly this kind of completely unexpected

34:39

career happened because as I said, I felt

34:42

quite evangelical about the fact

34:44

that everybody should be doing

34:46

this. Let's be honest, I quickly learned

34:48

a few years later that not everybody wanted

34:50

to hear about it. Some people- It's quite

34:52

humbling that experience. Yeah, some people were

34:55

like, can you be quiet? I

34:57

don't really like you and you

34:59

live and you learn. But it was, yeah,

35:02

it was this kind of extraordinary light

35:04

bulb moment of I've got, I've just

35:07

got to

35:07

share this with the world. And I'm an introvert

35:09

as well. Like I'm not someone that would

35:11

have ever imagined having a job sharing

35:14

this sort of thing with other people. I

35:17

completely relate that same thing happened for

35:19

me. it felt like my soul was lit up.

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36:21

I completely relate that same thing

36:24

happened for me. It felt like my soul was

36:26

lit up. It felt like every time I was looking

36:28

at papers about glucose that just felt this energy

36:30

in me. And that was really

36:33

like,

36:35

I loved going to those places. I loved

36:37

learning more. I loved trying to tell everybody I

36:39

could about glucose. And kind of like

36:41

you, I started thinking like, oh my God,

36:43

everybody needs to know this. I was telling my colleagues

36:46

and stuff. And people were also, you know, the responses

36:48

varied. Some people, like my family

36:50

was super into it. They were like, oh my God, tell us everything on

36:52

and everything. And some people were like,

36:55

what? Like just leave me alone. So I learned

36:58

a lot also in those moments

37:00

about how do you communicate new stuff

37:02

to people in a way that feels exciting. And that's where

37:04

the idea

37:05

of the glucose graphs came about. That's

37:07

where I thought, okay, all these cool papers that I'm discovering,

37:10

I want to tell people about them, but there's a marketing

37:12

issue. Nobody cares if I print out the scientific

37:14

paper and put it on their desk. Nobody cares.

37:17

It's a little dense. Yeah, it's a little dense, very

37:19

dry. Like nobody cared. And so, you

37:21

know, when I want to do something, and

37:24

this is one of the parts of myself that has

37:26

led to many wonderful things in my life,

37:28

I'll get it done, like I'll do it. And

37:31

so I felt that feeling of like, I'm

37:33

gonna find a way to make this interesting.

37:35

And that's when I thought, I'm gonna use my own glucose

37:38

data to make these cool little graphs

37:40

to illustrate the scientific papers that I'm finding

37:43

so that people have a visual of

37:45

the discovery. And it was just me on my computer

37:47

taking a screenshot of my glucose monitor app, importing

37:50

it into my computer, cutting it out in a

37:52

little design software, Googling

37:55

photo of orange juice and like downloading

37:57

the photo putting

37:58

on the thing and then you know

38:00

sending the screenshot to my phones. I mean, it

38:02

was really just me, basically in my garage,

38:05

trying to figure out, can I make a cool little visual? But

38:07

that was all I thought I was gonna do. I just

38:09

thought I was gonna help people understand this cool thing

38:12

that I had discovered. But it

38:14

was kind of like one step after another. I

38:16

never had a greater vision, the sort

38:18

of narrative that I'm the glucose

38:20

goddess. And I translate

38:23

cutting edge science into easy tips to help your

38:25

physical and mental health. Like that came years afterwards

38:28

at the beginning. was just me following this

38:30

cool little energy

38:32

source that I was in relationship

38:34

with now. I was like, wow, I just love this topic. It's

38:36

so cool. I want people to know. But it was,

38:39

that's all I thought it would ever be.

38:41

It's interesting that though, isn't it? Because

38:44

I

38:45

think so often we

38:47

all have ideas and things we'd love

38:49

to do in our life. And we find

38:51

it hard to believe it's possible that we could,

38:54

you know, go from our day job to our interests

38:57

or our passion becoming something that

38:59

is a kind of fully fledged career. And

39:01

it's, you know, you start in a very, very similar

39:04

way to how I started. It was, you know, a side

39:06

project, you know, your blog exactly

39:08

in my parents' kitchen. And as you're saying, very, very

39:11

similar, like literally, you know,

39:13

as basic as it comes. But

39:15

then just taking next step and next step and next

39:17

step of being so excited about it that you believe

39:19

that it could become something. And

39:22

it's interesting this idea that

39:25

you can take this little idea and it

39:27

can become so mainstream and

39:29

so popular and kind of want to better work completely

39:31

blow up. And I think it's, again, it's very inspiring

39:34

to believe that

39:35

any of us could potentially do that too. Yeah.

39:38

And again, like this concept of when you look at my work now,

39:40

it seems like, oh, it's so clear

39:43

I had an idea from the beginning, you know, the message

39:45

is so easy, the visuals are so cohesive,

39:48

you feel like, oh, wow, she had it all figured out.

39:50

But really, I had no idea what

39:52

this was going to turn into. I had no clue.

39:55

The first step I took was to reach out to a few

39:57

scientists in San Francisco who were working

39:59

on this.

43:58

as

44:00

stripping back that actual experience

44:02

of building something up, whether that's the professional

44:05

side or the kind of mental health and physical

44:07

health side, because it's to understand

44:09

that you went through the depths of darkness

44:11

with your mental health where you felt life

44:13

almost wasn't worth living to this

44:15

breakthrough where you feel so alive. I

44:18

felt so alive, Ella. I felt like

44:21

when I was working on this, like my mental

44:23

health was actually great. I was so,

44:25

I felt so connected. I was like, this is making my soul

44:27

light up. I feel, it feels so good and

44:30

it was so wonderful. And, you

44:32

know, people now see the polished version. I can assure you when

44:34

I had 85 followers, most people were telling

44:36

me I was dumb. That's what, that was

44:38

what I was going to come onto because that's what I always

44:40

find interesting is that again, I

44:42

think one thing that puts us off is we're scared of failing,

44:45

we're scared of looking silly for once for better

44:47

word. I know I relate to that completely.

44:50

You know, I

44:51

think in the beginning everyone sort

44:53

of was just saying,

44:55

what is Ella doing? you know, my dad

44:57

was always saying, when does Ella get a real

44:59

job? You know, there was just this

45:01

sort of slightly awkward moment where

45:04

everyone was just a little bit confused and

45:06

kind of

45:08

almost felt like felt quite sorry for you because

45:11

you'd been poorly and I had a blog and like

45:13

good for you for dry. There's

45:16

just this interesting moment, I guess, of it

45:18

grows beyond that and then people say, oh, that's really

45:20

cool. But there's this interesting ability,

45:23

I think, you have to have to cultivate self-belief

45:28

and a belief in what you're doing and

45:30

that you can do it and that's worth

45:32

doing and be able

45:34

to drown out that noise because it's

45:36

very, and for anyone who

45:38

wants to make changes in their life, I think sometimes

45:41

those changes start to feel so challenging because

45:44

often when you're trying to do something quite different,

45:47

that makes other people feel nervous or

45:49

it creates some kind of reaction

45:52

in them and then you're getting all this

45:54

criticism and noise and it's very difficult

45:57

to keep following through with something. and

45:59

I had a few

50:00

and you

50:01

have new challenges every single

50:03

day. Like things generally

50:05

do not go right. It's a problem

50:08

solving exercise. And so

50:10

I think that when all the

50:12

ups and downs lead you to one

50:15

step up, it's so important to remember that.

50:17

So I've become quite passionate about

50:19

that because I think otherwise, particularly

50:21

after the last three years, obviously COVID

50:24

and the various lockdowns and Brexit and inflation

50:26

have been, I think, more challenging

50:29

in retrospect than we almost realised. I

50:31

think there were certainly points last year where

50:33

actually I think both of us really started to

50:36

hate what we did. It felt like

50:38

the soul had been removed from it, the joy

50:40

had been removed. It was only

50:43

bad news. Every day was bad news. Every

50:45

plan was cancelled. Everything

50:47

we'd worked

50:47

so hard from it kind

50:48

of fell on a knife edge. And it

50:51

felt like you were just consistently scrambling

50:53

to just stay where you were. And you

50:55

can do that for so long, but after three years

50:58

it had become, and that will obviously

51:00

be a very familiar feeling for anyone who's

51:03

also navigated, as we all have all

51:05

those challenges. But I think it's just

51:08

really heightened my sense of reminding

51:10

myself

51:12

when things are good and when good things have happened.

51:14

And I think,

51:15

you know, I just finished the most amazing

51:17

book called I May Be Wrong. And if

51:19

you haven't read it, you've got to read it. And anyone

51:22

listening, you've got to read it. It's by this Swedish

51:24

monk who unfortunately passed away last

51:27

year. More wisdom in that

51:29

book than I've ever come across

51:31

in my life. It's so beautiful, but it's this

51:33

ultimate, such a strong reminder

51:35

of the fact that the only thing you have got is the present.

51:38

And it's just almost laughable that we as

51:41

humans think that we can control anything external.

51:43

You can only do your best and keep

51:45

putting one step forward. But

51:48

when things are good, you got to remind yourself of that

51:50

because you never know what's around the corner. Absolutely.

51:53

Yeah. And I feel similarly now, you know, I get

51:55

to work on all these amazing projects and

51:57

I I can use all my creativity to

51:59

this great

53:13

your

54:00

meal, vinegar, clothes on carbs. Like,

54:02

I don't know, these hacks have become a little

54:05

family of super easy,

54:08

gentle giants that everybody loves incorporating

54:10

into their lives. And almost just

54:13

to go into the tips kind of

54:15

one step further,

54:17

well, actually in a way,

54:18

one step more simple. Because

54:20

I think sometimes we make meals,

54:23

we don't really think about the impact

54:25

they'll have. And actually, interestingly, I've certainly

54:27

been in a very lazy mindset.

54:31

The last six months, life just has felt

54:33

so busy. And I've been much lazier

54:35

with my meals. And my goodness,

54:38

I felt the effect of it, actually. And the last

54:40

few weeks, I've been back on kind of original,

54:42

delicious Ciela, all the greens,

54:44

all the sweet potatoes, all the tofu,

54:47

all the ram rice, and those sorts of ingredients.

54:50

And I feel amazing. Like literally

54:52

two or three days in. And I feel

54:55

incomparable to the week before.

54:58

And I think sometimes I just almost need

55:00

those personal reminders. They revive

55:02

my passion for why it's so important

55:04

to think about what you're eating. But

55:07

it's almost just

55:08

the basics of thinking that when you're putting

55:10

a meal together, you need protein

55:12

and you need fat and you need complex

55:15

carbohydrates and you can't just eat

55:18

white pasta for your meal and think

55:20

you're going to feel great. Yeah, but you know

55:22

that realization that you have that food is

55:25

infecting your health like for many

55:27

people They don't even know that at all, right?

55:29

They don't know that if they change the way they

55:31

eat they're eating They're gonna have a completely different experience

55:34

of their day and maybe they have this concept of

55:36

like, oh, you know I should be eating healthier but

55:38

that often feels really daunting and

55:41

just kind of vague and so I think what you do so

55:43

beautifully and What I try to do as well is

55:45

like breaking it down into making it really simple

55:48

and easy and approachable And I

55:50

think once people feel that, it's

55:53

hard to go back. I mean, sure, we have moments where we just

55:55

don't do it anymore, but we know that we

55:57

should go back to it because it really helps.

55:59

Yeah.

56:00

It does exactly that and it's very normal

56:02

and I think that's important to know

56:03

to kind of not to

56:06

oscillate a little bit. We all have that

56:08

life gets in the way but as you said once you build those

56:10

habits they're very very very easy to go

56:12

back to. And what is it that you

56:14

do every day to feel your absolute

56:17

best? Savory breakfast that's

56:19

a total non-negotiable for me. I grew up

56:21

eating in Nutella crepe every morning for breakfast

56:23

and I thought it was completely normal to be famished

56:26

at 11 a.m. and exhausted. I had no

56:29

concept that my breakfast was impacting

56:31

me. And so now a savory

56:33

breakfast, which means a breakfast

56:35

that doesn't contain too many sweet things, that's

56:37

focused around protein, that's a really important,

56:40

beautiful way to keep your glucose levels steady for

56:42

the whole day and unlock

56:44

this sort of ego energy that

56:47

you get when your glucose levels are steadier. So

56:49

that's something I do absolutely every single day.

56:52

Veggie starter. So when I have a meal, I'll

56:54

have a little veggie portion at the

56:56

beginning that helps to create

56:59

this mesh in your intestine that protects you

57:01

from too many glucose spikes. That's really powerful.

57:03

Is that because of the fiber? Absolutely. Yeah,

57:05

the fiber creates that mesh in your upper intestine

57:08

that like viscous protective mesh that prevents

57:10

too many glucose molecules from actually making

57:13

their way from your digestive tract

57:15

into your bloodstream. Super important.

57:17

So what is that like? You just have a little bit of salad

57:20

before meal? It can be anything. So you

57:22

should strive to make your veggie starter about 30% of

57:24

your meal. So it can be any

57:26

of your favorite veggies. Maybe it's roasted cauliflower

57:29

with some tahini on it. Maybe it's a nice little

57:31

fresh spinach salad with some pomegranate

57:34

seeds. Any vegetable works.

57:36

And in the glucose goddess method, I have all these

57:38

amazing, super easy recipes to help you do

57:41

just that. So that I do every day. Clothes

57:43

on carbs I do every day. So that means if I'm

57:45

going to eat starches of sugars, I never

57:48

eat them on their own. I add

57:50

some protein, fat or fiber to them.

57:53

And then one I try to do every day as well

57:55

is doing a bit of movement after a meal. So

57:58

maybe after lunch I'll go for a walk, you know.

59:47

And

1:00:00

so I love being able to give these

1:00:02

beautiful images that show you what's happening

1:00:05

in your body. And I think that's super motivating

1:00:07

to be able to see proof because otherwise

1:00:09

you're like, I'm

1:00:11

not so sure like this is a piece of advice like another but

1:00:14

just to see the spike and then to in your body

1:00:16

feel how different your

1:00:18

body is feeling, that your energy is better, your cravings

1:00:21

are reduced. That's also a huge motivator.

1:00:23

Even if you start with a tiny thing, even if you have

1:00:26

one tiny little baby carrots before

1:00:28

your dinner tonight, instead of not

1:00:30

having a tiny baby carrot or not having any vegetables

1:00:33

in your meal, just doing that little thing is

1:00:35

gonna help you so much and it's gonna be

1:00:37

so much better than doing nothing. And that

1:00:40

approach that I have, which is a similar approach

1:00:42

I took when I was starting the project, which is like 85 to 86

1:00:44

followers. That's what I'm

1:00:47

going for. That's my goal. That's what I'm gonna celebrate.

1:00:49

We need to celebrate the small, tiny

1:00:51

things. Maybe it's two calf raises at

1:00:54

your desk after your meal. Maybe

1:00:57

it's like 30 seconds of yoga instead

1:00:59

of a full amazing

1:01:00

class. Like all these things, I

1:01:02

want people to feel positive and to

1:01:04

celebrate them. There's so much joy

1:01:07

that you can bring to your life. And

1:01:09

then you build yourself confidence. And then

1:01:11

it's a virtuous cycle. It is, you start

1:01:13

to feel like a superwoman. I

1:01:15

used to hate working out. Now I'm like, I can't wait

1:01:18

to go to the gym. I can't wait, I love it. Because

1:01:20

I just built that in myself, yeah. And

1:01:23

then the other things you do outside

1:01:25

of nutrition on a day to day basis to

1:01:27

really look after yourself. because I imagine it's pretty

1:01:30

intense work you've been

1:01:32

doing over the last year. Has stress

1:01:34

been a challenge? I have phases

1:01:36

of intense stress and phases

1:01:39

where I'm feeling pretty good, but there are some things

1:01:41

I do every day. So every night

1:01:43

when I'm in bed, before I go to bed, I open

1:01:45

this app where I keep a little diary and

1:01:47

I rate my mental health for that day

1:01:49

on a scale of one to five. And regardless

1:01:52

of my stress levels, regardless of if somebody

1:01:54

yelled at me on the street, whatever, like what I'm rating

1:01:57

is just my mental health. So how

1:01:59

in my body. How scared of being alone do I feel?

1:02:02

You know, looking back to how I thought when I was 19. And

1:02:05

often, you know, I rate it five out of five. And

1:02:07

just to remind myself that no matter what's happening

1:02:10

around me, I feel better in my

1:02:12

brain. That brings me so much

1:02:14

peace and gratitude. And I've been doing that

1:02:16

for four years now. So I have a little app with like

1:02:19

four years of these one out of five

1:02:21

ratings. That helps me so, so much.

1:02:24

And then in the morning, another thing I do also phone related. I

1:02:26

don't look at my phone for the first half an hour after

1:02:28

I wake up. wake up. That helps

1:02:30

me hugely. Oh me too. I think

1:02:32

that's a kind of prerequisite for life.

1:02:34

It's so tough because I used to just take my phone, open Instagram,

1:02:37

it's 7 and 45 and I'm in my bed and just

1:02:39

that sucks all your energy, you know, and you're

1:02:42

just are just totally dissociated for

1:02:44

the rest of the day. So that's an important one too. And

1:02:46

then I just, you know, I just chill when I can.

1:02:49

If I have half an hour between meetings, I'll

1:02:51

just like watch Netflix show I love

1:02:53

and eat some dark chocolate. Like I have no problem

1:02:56

going into gremlin mode as soon as

1:02:58

I have the opportunity to really just

1:03:00

sink in and like do something I like to do.

1:03:03

I don't feel guilty about, you know, feeling

1:03:05

every moment of my day. I try to

1:03:08

just do the stuff I like doing.

1:03:09

Was that always the case? Because I think a lot of people,

1:03:12

myself included, struggle sometimes

1:03:15

to sit still and sit quietly.

1:03:18

And it's almost like we can't not reach for our phone

1:03:20

and scroll because it's

1:03:22

you're so used to those dopamine hits that

1:03:25

constant go go go go go. It's

1:03:27

definitely hard and I did not used to be

1:03:29

like that but now I realize that

1:03:31

that's also part of my work like keeping

1:03:34

myself healthy is my

1:03:36

number one priority because if I'm not feeling

1:03:38

good if I am stressed out if I'm

1:03:40

addicted to my phone if my brain is all over

1:03:43

the place I'm not going to be able to do the

1:03:45

work that I do so it's become

1:03:47

my number one priority But it didn't

1:03:50

used to be the case because I was working at a company, so

1:03:52

you can just show up and be exhausted and hungover and it

1:03:54

doesn't matter. Right. But now all

1:03:56

the creative juice and all the ideas

1:03:58

and all the stuff comes from