0:02

This is a Global Player

0:04

original podcast. This episode contains

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an open and honest discussion

0:08

about suicide, including personal experiences,

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emotions and challenges related to mental

0:13

health. We understand that this

0:15

topic may be sensitive and triggering for

0:18

some listeners. If you or someone you

0:20

know is struggling, please be advised that

0:22

this episode may be emotionally intense. Listener

0:24

discretion is advised. I'm

0:26

Richard Hammond. I'm Izzy Hammond. This

0:28

is Who We Are Now. Hello

0:45

and welcome to Who We Are Now, the podcast that, well,

0:47

we're on a mission to find out not just who we

0:49

are now, but this is good, this. How

0:52

to be. How to be

0:54

to be our better selves and how to be

0:56

for other people around us. Love. Yeah,

0:58

really nice. It's quite good. Yeah. I'm

1:01

in a really sarcastic tone today. Oh no. Even when I said

1:03

my name, I was like, I'm Izzy Hammond. Really?

1:06

Yeah. Why? But I

1:08

don't feel that kind of way, but sometimes my voice does

1:10

that. Everything I said just sounds like I'm being a bit

1:12

sarcastic. Oh yeah. There it is. I

1:15

heard that. Yeah. Okay. How

1:18

are you? I'm all right. Thanks. How

1:21

are you? What have you been doing? I've

1:23

had a hell of a week. I have got what can only be

1:25

described as a gammy arm. What's happened?

1:28

So... Well, that was... Yeah.

1:31

Yeah. Well, the other day... This is a harrowing

1:33

story. Yeah. Like fasten your

1:35

seatbelts because this is intense. I'm bracing ready. So

1:38

the other day, I had

1:41

a long sleeve top on and I

1:43

could feel the heat radiating from my

1:45

upper left arm. I mean, it was

1:47

hot. And then

1:50

I felt it and it was probably twice

1:52

the size of my normal arm. You

1:54

know, it was bad. It was really bad. I

1:57

had a little look. I don't know what's happened. It's

2:00

tripled in size at this point. It's enormous,

2:03

it's swollen, it's boiling hot, it's

2:05

red. That's when I

2:07

noticed something had bitten me. What

2:10

a story! No, no, but. What, like a

2:12

shark? Could be shark, could be, yeah,

2:14

seriously, bad. Can we have a look?

2:16

You can see it. Yeah, it was a gnat, wasn't it? No, no,

2:18

no, no, but let me carry on the story. So I go to

2:20

the pharmacy, because,

2:23

you know, let me just get, this is one thing, sorry,

2:25

you know, you don't need to go to hospital for these

2:27

things. You need to waste those people's time. Go to a

2:29

local pharmacy. They'll sort you out. That's

2:31

my message for everyone today. Thank you. Went to the

2:33

pharmacy, I said, hey guys, I got a bit of

2:35

a bite going on. And they're like, oh, sorry, you

2:37

know, take this, take that. And I was like, I

2:39

think you should have a look at it. It's a

2:41

bit of a whopper. They said, okay, lifted my arm

2:43

up. They literally went, oh God, Jesus Christ! Like there

2:46

was a proper reaction, which is not what you want

2:48

from the pharmacy. It's not what you want from the

2:50

shop. It's not what you want. That's horrible, I don't

2:52

want to catch it! Yeah, and I've got an

2:54

infected arm. No way. Because apparently when you get

2:56

bitten, I just got bitten by something in the

2:58

park. It wasn't a tick

3:00

or anything, because that's what worried me. I'm not

3:03

done yet, let me carry on. Just another message

3:05

for you out there listening. If

3:07

you get bitten by something, you've

3:09

momentarily got a puncture wound in

3:12

your skin. So

3:14

it's open to the elements.

3:17

Therefore, therefore, some horrible little piece

3:19

of bacteria, horrible thing, has crawled

3:21

it. No, no, no, but listen

3:24

to this. It's crawled into my,

3:26

inside my arm. I mean, we

3:28

all know this. And

3:30

it's caused major

3:32

issues. I'm on bloody

3:34

antibiotics! I'm on five

3:36

days of penicillin! Jam!

3:40

Penicillin! I mean, it was a magnificent

3:43

job of drawing out what was a

3:45

fairly elementary story. You went to the

3:47

park, you got bitten on the arm

3:49

by a gnat, and then

3:52

it swelled out. And I'm on

3:54

antibiotics. Yeah. That's actually quite

3:56

bad. It's also quite a rubbish, it's

3:58

a rubbish complaint. Yeah. I've

4:00

never had glamorous ones ever. My

4:03

only real bad, my only hospital

4:05

visits I've had, I knelt on

4:07

a pair of scissors while wrapping

4:09

a present and they went straight

4:11

through my knee. I could see my knee

4:13

cap. That was bad. Had it

4:15

stitched up. The scar's fantastic if anyone liked to see

4:17

it. It's on my knee. It's really

4:19

cool. And I was

4:21

boiling some rice once and I tripped over a cardboard

4:24

box and I burnt my arm. Well my hand actually.

4:26

That doesn't have a scar but I nearly had to

4:28

go to a burn's unit. I didn't but

4:30

it was nearly really dramatic. And

4:32

then now my my gammy arm, those

4:35

are my big injuries. Right. Yeah. That

4:37

was honest of you to tell us about your

4:39

frankly crap injury. Yeah I got

4:41

a lot of those. But it is important

4:43

to do that. Obviously that was fairly easy because it

4:46

was funny. But

4:48

our subject for this week is about not

4:51

just honesty but feeling able

4:54

to share, able to offload,

4:56

not always lightweight, sometimes really

4:58

heavy, sometimes just the small things that

5:01

bug us and that collectively and cumulatively

5:03

put us in a bad place. That's

5:05

kind of the subject this week.

5:07

It is indeed. This week's guest

5:09

is well by popular demand and

5:11

I mean demand. You

5:14

have written in and contacted

5:16

us desperate to hear this guy

5:19

and I can understand why because if you're a

5:21

regular listener to this podcast what he does and

5:23

who he is is right in your wheelhouse. He

5:25

is Luke Ambler, former rugby player, lived

5:28

life at an incredible frequency with

5:30

the accompanying highs and lows. Together

5:33

with the mother of his late

5:35

brother-in-law he founded Andis Manclub, a

5:38

charity with a mission to help

5:40

men talk. That's basically all

5:42

it is and boy does it matter and I can't wait

5:44

to hear more about it. Luke,

5:46

welcome. Hello. Welcome. I thought we

5:48

were amazing introduction by the way. I'm

5:51

thinking of putting into music. Truth

5:54

be is I could have done a different introduction.

5:56

I could have said this week we're

5:59

joined by Luke Ambler because we had no choice. We

6:01

really did. We might have been to truth in

6:03

that. We've had so many messages

6:07

asking us to get you one. Yeah so

6:09

many comments, DMs on Instagram. Overwhelmed by that

6:11

actually. It's quite nice that people want to

6:13

hear my monitor and voice. And we do

6:15

listen to what they say and yeah people

6:17

are really keen to hear from you. You're

6:20

clearly part of this whole

6:22

movement and a significant one. So

6:25

it's very nice to have you along to say why

6:27

are you doing so much in this space?

6:29

So let's go right back to why

6:32

you are. So happy to be

6:34

engaged and open and talk to people about

6:37

this. So I know you listening

6:39

probably already know this that's what you've said

6:41

get Luke on. But let's just

6:43

drop through it. Yeah I think a lot

6:45

of the time people see

6:47

what they see. So they see when something

6:50

becomes big rather than maybe

6:52

how it really started. Andy's

6:54

Mancle which we'll talk a little bit about

6:56

started after the death of my brother-in-law which

6:58

I imagine we're going to. But my mental

7:01

health journey started long before that. Before mental

7:03

health was even a topic of

7:05

conversation. So the actual first interaction

7:07

with mental health was when my parents separated and

7:09

you know a lot of people have been through

7:11

something similar. And you were what eight or something?

7:13

Eight yeah and then my dad won custody which

7:15

again is really unheard of. Now whenever mine 20

7:17

years ago the mum had a car crash and

7:19

then she started having blackouts initially. So that was

7:21

when they separated same sort of time? Yeah shortly

7:23

after she had a car crash. Yeah pretty pretty

7:26

shortly. So that was that was a bad year.

7:28

Yeah just as she was going to school to

7:30

get me. So it'd been that one of the

7:32

first times you were going to get me since

7:34

the breakup. So then teachers sat me down and

7:36

said hey mum what are we coming now? Obviously

7:38

I was devastated. And then wait a minute so

7:40

they said late year old Luke has just got

7:42

his head around the idea. His parents just and

7:44

you know I mean anybody who's in this situation

7:47

that happens by the way. We're not waiting

7:49

that out. But that you were dealing with that

7:52

and then double whammy your mum. There's a

7:54

triple one in there so I have our

7:56

comfort here at the time. So we're a

7:58

big big kid big big. kids are having

8:00

a bit of a difficult time at school

8:02

on top of that so then mum has

8:04

the car crash which then just compounds onto

8:06

it really and then obviously

8:09

the trauma that came within that as in like so

8:11

she has um initially before

8:13

she had the droppers out she used to have blackouts took

8:16

point one where really bad um do you remember the old

8:18

chip pans i think they're four bikes for years do you

8:20

remember the old chip pans we used to use play while

8:22

we were a big kid yeah we don't have them anymore

8:24

do we? she put chip pan on and got into the

8:26

front room and blacked out and obviously i was set on

8:28

fire around her yeah that's why we don't have them yeah

8:30

that's why we don't have them anymore yeah and it's precisely

8:32

why we don't have them anymore neighbor knocking up wind her

8:35

um trying to get her out and she just blacked out

8:37

and they managed to get her out eventually but um

8:39

yeah just crazy times at them points in

8:41

and out of these sort of episodes and

8:43

then obviously it developed you know this these

8:45

drop attacks um and then about 15 i

8:47

think i remember saying to step down at

8:49

the time um i was boyfriend at the

8:52

time like this this needs to stop because

8:54

there's so much stigma now around mental ill

8:56

health but even then like i just because

8:58

you didn't see it maybe you know you don't sort

9:00

of believe it so by what age were you when you

9:02

were starting to not believe that this was because of a

9:04

brain and a quiet brain yeah i think maybe all the

9:07

time i don't think i ever really i saw that there

9:09

were a bit of someone had said to

9:11

my mum um oh um i bumped into

9:13

someone at church who's got what you've got it's real isn't

9:15

it her mum like

9:17

yeah i've been living it for 20

9:20

years it's completely real wow

9:22

yeah so stick we talk about stigma like

9:24

that were like a bubbling part of stigma

9:26

so your whole world was one based on

9:29

that stigma and even in you as well

9:31

a degree of disbelief or preparedness to disbelief

9:33

that it was an actual thing going on

9:35

yes and then the mental ill

9:38

health had an effect on her mental health yeah

9:40

which i mean she had anxiety that bad that

9:42

she didn't leave her house for about four years

9:44

not once and then obviously became a depressor sorry

9:46

mum if you're listening it's all been about you someone I've

12:00

picked the wrong person but I managed to blag

12:02

a few years out of that so we're

12:04

good. Absolutely intense so that's like a massive peak

12:06

of huge spike above the line. Yeah I

12:08

always think like if my go-up player ability were

12:11

here, I don't know if you've got this on

12:13

video but people if anyone's just listening it's

12:15

I'm putting my hand quite high. Luke

12:18

is holding his hand at head height. How

12:21

is extending his arm upwards? It's a long

12:23

arm. It's got a long, I can't see

12:25

where his arm's gone. And

12:28

how is your mental health when you're playing

12:30

rugby? Because obviously it's fantastic for your career

12:32

and obviously your physical health but you

12:34

say it was a peak but we did you feel that

12:36

in your head as well everything was going well in your

12:38

life at that point? Yeah I really did I felt like

12:40

I've always been real, I like

12:43

to be busy so rugby is really chaotic it's

12:45

busy training all the time and but

12:47

underlying probably still always had not until I look

12:49

back now a lot of things you

12:51

know reflections really powerful in it you know

12:53

at the time probably always had this I

12:56

don't like to I don't like to call things disorders I don't like

12:59

to put tag lines on anything but I

13:01

would have had clearly still had some

13:03

issues with eating because I kept ballooning and

13:05

going down to like you know rick yan

13:07

after a fight when he were fighting he'd

13:09

go really big and go back down but

13:11

I'd do that mid-season so I don't know

13:14

if it were when I were playing bad

13:16

maybe or what just subconsciously. There was something

13:18

in there wasn't quite right. And then when

13:20

I got let go from Leeds it all

13:22

came crashing down. Because that's the next sort

13:25

of big thing so absolute pinnacle despite all

13:27

those obstacles on the way and challenges boss

13:29

you're playing top level wow oh

13:32

then you know they dropped you. Yeah brought a

13:34

new manager in which we've all had at any

13:36

point in his life that's fine and some again

13:38

I used to have very different views

13:40

to what happened then and I sort of realized now

13:42

that every one of us

13:44

and you might be a relate to this like you

13:47

know we all go through some horrendous shit in his

13:49

life but like if we hadn't gone through that we're

13:51

maybe won't be doing what we're doing now which is

13:53

maybe better than what we're doing before that horrendous shit.

13:55

I think that's when it comes down to personal choice

13:57

that's when you decide let's make this a good thing.

14:00

You sort of had this absolute

14:02

disaster and then thought, no, come on, I can

14:04

do better than this. So

14:07

when Leeds let me go, the thoughts of the

14:09

manager were all bad, I was mistreated. Maybe there

14:11

were elements of that. Maybe, which he had for

14:13

a mentor, maybe a female as well, maybe I

14:15

just weren't good enough. And as a

14:17

man, I had this crush from my dad who called

14:19

bullshit on it the other day, he's like, no, you can tell

14:21

people that, you can convince yourself that, but you was good enough.

14:24

Your dad sounds brilliant. He's like, you was good enough, I'm not

14:26

having that. You can convince whoever you want that shit, but I'm

14:28

not having that. Well, sometimes you've got to

14:30

maybe be not good enough. And then when I

14:32

was going through that weirdly, I put my mask back on,

14:35

because when I was a kid, I used to pretend everything

14:37

were okay. And here's what's

14:39

interesting I find now. So 20 years ago, even 10 years

14:41

ago, all we had to pretend as men and females, and

14:43

I say this because I feel like there was a big

14:45

shift happening, is that everything were okay, but now we're

14:47

living in a bit more of a site where you've got

14:50

to pretend everything's perfect. So there's like an added weight of

14:52

pressure now, isn't there? So when I got let go from

14:54

Leeds, I pretended everything were okay, but I won. And

14:57

the one thing I probably should have done, which again,

14:59

the majority of us do, you should pull people into

15:01

you, shouldn't you, when you're struggling. But what I did

15:03

was I started to push everyone away, maybe go back,

15:05

you know, start doing some negative

15:07

habits, drinking a bit too much. And I've never really

15:09

been a drinker, but I started drinking, started going out.

15:12

I mean, my partner broke up, and before I knew

15:14

it, found myself in this bit of a pickle, got

15:17

an altercation and I out, and then found myself starting

15:19

this police cell. So I'm asking the

15:21

question, why me? You know, my missus

15:23

had left, my rubber career would gone. I

15:25

literally just felt like my version of

15:28

rock bottom. People were going,

15:30

I've been in a lot darker situations and

15:32

maybe it were my own little rock bottom.

15:34

Well, you had by then experienced a monumental

15:36

peak above the line. Yes. And

15:38

at that precise moment, a

15:40

massive peak below the line. Yes. That

15:43

is a big old slump there. And so you were sitting there

15:45

literally head in hands in a

15:48

cell, why me? And

15:51

you pivoted that at that point. Yes.

15:54

We're like, I've talked to myself a lot, like I

15:56

think a lot of us do, don't we? Yeah, I

15:58

do. Yeah, from big conversations or something. about

28:00

it, just so you can do it. But there was,

28:02

there is a huge amount of unspoken communication

28:04

going on there. A lot of what he

28:06

was advising, a lot of what he was

28:08

pushing, a lot of what he was saying

28:11

without saying. Do you think that was actually

28:13

putting you in a positive place? That was

28:15

actually pushing you to do positive things. He

28:17

was pushing you to do rugby. He wasn't

28:19

saying, son, I know you're a

28:21

bit large because you're comfort eating but you

28:23

can turn that negative into a positive by

28:26

playing rugby because you'll find suddenly your size

28:28

is a positive advantage rather than a disadvantage.

28:30

He just said, play rugby lad and you

28:32

did and it worked. So you were aware

28:34

of the importance of that communication. You would

28:36

just suddenly realise you need to be open

28:38

honest about having it. Yeah, 100%

28:40

I think, really

28:43

good that it's got me, it's got me

28:45

really reflecting on my parents and when you

28:47

tell a story, you

28:49

know, when you do a talk to a kid you talk about

28:51

how hard it was when your parents broke up but it was

28:53

the single best thing that ever happened to me because I often

28:56

think that when people are happy in a relationship it's

28:58

better for the kids that they're not together. You know,

29:00

I'm just in here for the sake of kids and

29:03

they broke up and whatever happened to my mum and

29:05

happened to me but we got such a contrast me

29:07

and my brother of. To give you

29:09

a little bit extra in it, I never really

29:11

talk about it. Most people won't even know this

29:14

book. My parents is my older brother. They already

29:16

had a challenging start to a parent when my

29:18

brother came out with an arth deformed, like his

29:20

ankle had never formed so he had this little

29:23

baby like constantly so they had to make a

29:25

real tough decision, real tough decision about amputation and

29:27

he can either have crutches or wheelchair for the

29:29

rest of his life at this point or

29:31

we can try and amputate him and then he started

29:33

like walking on couch at six-month-old even with this little

29:36

stump like thing, you know, his little foot so we'll

29:38

just we'll try it. So he got his like amputated.

29:40

Wow, so they'd been through making that decision. Yeah, big

29:42

and I saw just him and now he was talking

29:44

about my dad and what influence so they had to

29:47

make this big call and and

29:49

my brother's a really interesting guy and I never really

29:51

speak about him just because he's just not don't come

29:54

up and I just think about like what impact

29:56

they would have had on me and

29:58

I'm never honest this... And

52:00

actually when he affixes it, some wings are falling on wheels,

52:02

I don't know, and it's always sort of been that we're

52:04

fixing it as we go. And I think that's what makes

52:06

it so beautiful. No, it's

52:08

amazing. What you're doing is incredible. There

52:10

is no doubt that a

52:13

lot of those who messaged us asking

52:15

us to get you in, wanted to hear

52:18

your story, because it's amazing. But

52:20

there also will be those who wanted to, would

52:23

benefit from talking. So the last thing to

52:25

finish on really simply enough, where

52:28

actually does somebody find you? I'm guessing they

52:30

just go to the internet to know, if

52:32

somebody now, if it's you listening and you're

52:34

thinking, actually, I

52:36

wouldn't mind doing that. I

52:39

wouldn't mind being the one perhaps just

52:41

caught by the sweeper and softly pushed over

52:44

that last final difficult step. So how do

52:46

I get to that point? Yeah, so there's

52:48

a few different options for you here. One

52:50

is that we're on all social media platforms,

52:53

even a TikTok, Facebook, Twitter,

52:56

Instagram, LinkedIn, got a website.

52:59

And then on the website, we have a little

53:01

bit of software. You type in your postcard, it'll

53:03

give you six nearest groups. We

53:05

have now got 200 groups. We still know anywhere we wanna

53:07

be. We wanna have a group at least

53:09

a 30 minute travel away from any guy. So

53:12

for those that are beneficial to have a group near

53:14

them, you've got two options here. One is to look

53:16

at the type of stuff we put on social media,

53:18

because there's content on there to help you. But we

53:20

also have an online group. So every Monday at seven

53:22

o'clock till nine, just like the in-person, we have the

53:24

exact same. So 40 guys turn up, it breaks off

53:26

into four rooms of 10. So

53:28

whether you're the fan off of Scotland, we have

53:30

one in Aberdeen, but even further up and you're

53:33

in a remote place where we haven't got one

53:35

yet, you can still attend one of them groups.

53:38

It's just online, it's running the exact same. You just gotta bring

53:40

your own brew. Because we don't

53:42

have a cap for Friday, I'll have a line,

53:44

but yeah, it's the exact same. So any guy's

53:46

andismanclub.co.uk and come along, give it

53:48

a go. And one thing I'll always say

53:50

is, is that AndisManclub is for everyone, but it's not

53:52

going to be for everyone. And there's lots of different

53:54

ways to skin a cat, to look after him in

53:57

a low. I think for you, it might be talking

53:59

to... When you're kids, it might be to talk

54:01

to a loved one. It just, talking

54:03

is the first step to get rid of the shit,

54:05

to get rid of the fizz in the bottle. But

54:07

then it's on you, accountability, what's next? And what are

54:09

you gonna do to top that up the six days

54:11

that you're not at Andy's Man Club? So a big

54:13

one for me that I always, you know, wanna get

54:15

across to people is that our mental health is our

54:18

responsibility, you know? And it's up to each and every

54:20

one of us to take ownership of that. Spaces

54:22

like Andy's Man Club are there to help

54:24

facilitate you to be the best version

54:26

of you. But it's on you to be a take

54:28

those steps. Lou, even

54:31

though we had no choice but to

54:33

get you in because we were bullied

54:35

into it, it's been an absolute joy

54:37

and hearing about what you're doing, it

54:40

is a beautiful, human, magnificent

54:42

thing that is doing

54:44

so well simply because the intention,

54:47

the commitment behind it, it works.

54:49

Yeah. And long may it continue.

54:51

Absolutely. It's the joy of seeing you, I have no

54:53

doubt at a path to a cross again. Just

54:55

as long as it isn't on a rugby pitch because if it's in the sun, it's like...

54:58

Absolutely. No, no, no. Love

55:01

it to me. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank

55:04

you, guys. That

55:12

was amazing. Yeah, I had to hold back

55:14

some tears then. Well, yeah.

55:18

Can I honestly say so, did I? Got quite... Do you

55:20

know when I had a real lump in throat when I

55:22

really thought, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna do one of those

55:24

single big wet stops. It's

55:26

when he was talking about the sweeper. And it's me too.

55:28

I find that profound because that

55:30

means the whole

55:32

thing is rooted in genuine

55:35

heart, genuine

55:38

understanding. That is understanding, that

55:40

is born of a real

55:42

desire to help people and

55:45

to understand the people you're trying to help.

55:47

And quite often, you ask the

55:49

question to someone like him that does this

55:51

kind of organization, you say, what advice can

55:53

you give to someone that wants

55:56

to talk, it's such a classic interview question.

55:58

It happens all the time. And you... usually

56:00

get a pretty bog standard, oh, you know,

56:02

well, you gotta dig deep and be strong

56:04

or, you know, use this. But that was

56:07

the single best answer I have ever heard. It

56:09

was, okay, we've literally got

56:11

something in place for exactly that. Because he's

56:13

sat down and he's gone, I have literally

56:15

seen so many people try and do this

56:17

and they can't quite do that last

56:20

hurdle. So what I'm gonna do is I'm going

56:22

to help them. And he does, and he's put

56:24

this in place and it works. Which immediately tells

56:26

you if you're feeling you might

56:28

benefit from that. That, wow,

56:30

they've got my back. They really care.

56:32

They've got me, they understand me. That

56:34

is the most loving thing I think I've

56:37

ever heard. Yeah. But just, because you can

56:39

imagine, it's a rainy night in

56:41

Halifax, say his hometown. And

56:43

you've thought, I really think I need

56:45

to connect. And you

56:47

are standing outside in the rain and you are nervous

56:49

and you are a bit scared because it is a

56:52

big step. Even though it's just sitting with a few

56:54

blokes and a really big thing. It's terrifying. And the

56:56

fact that somebody would just come up, you're

56:59

all right, mate? Are you looking to go in there? Yeah, come on, have

57:01

a cup of tea. And you could be,

57:03

obviously, and you could be in a place

57:06

where you have not spoken to another human

57:09

all day, in days, in weeks. And

57:11

literally just having someone come

57:13

up, I'm literally gonna cry. Having

57:15

someone come up to you and just speak to you

57:18

and just say, you're all right, mate. And just put,

57:20

all you've done is driven there. You've got yourself to

57:22

the car park and there's someone that's gonna pick you

57:24

up. Oh, it's amazing. Yeah,

57:28

he's a genuine bloke. He's amazing.

57:30

He's fantastic. And if

57:33

you're listening, just go. Just go and sit

57:35

at the car park. Yeah, that safety net

57:37

of knowing that that'll help you over the

57:39

final half. If you

57:42

are thinking that might be the thing for

57:44

me, I might give that a go. Yeah, you don't have to talk. You

57:46

don't have to say anything. You can just sit there and you can listen.

57:48

Yeah, I don't think there's a better way of expressing.

57:50

Yeah, that might just be the right way. Yeah. Yeah.

57:58

That is it for this week. We'll be back. back with

58:00

you joined by Jim later on this week because we

58:02

answer your questions and have a feeling this

58:05

episode may have stirred some up and not

58:07

just questions as well if you want to

58:09

say something about this video, get some help

58:12

from Jessica and show your experience based on this.

58:14

If you've been to one

58:16

of our club nights, talk to some

58:18

of our people, we'd love to hear

58:20

if you've got anything to say, get

58:22

in touch at whowearnowatglobal.com. You can

58:24

also find us online, join our community

58:26

on Instagram at whowearnowpod. I run it

58:28

to be talking straight to me, DM

58:31

us, comment, whatever you fancy, only if it's

58:33

nice. Until next time, make sure you're listening

58:35

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from the App Store or go to globeplayer.com.

58:42

That is it for this week, see

58:44

you next time. Bye!