0:00

Wine and Crime contains graphic

0:02

and explicit content which may

0:04

not be suitable for some

0:06

listeners. Listener discretion is advised.

0:23

You are listening to Wine and Crime,

0:25

the podcast where two friends and a

0:27

cat chug wine, chat

0:29

your crime and unleash their

0:32

worst Minnesota accents. I'm Amanda.

0:59

I'm trying not to

1:02

focus on the latter

1:05

because I

1:07

don't. It's really detrimental to my

1:09

mental health. I'm

1:29

focusing on your cat, honestly. The

1:59

blesses. The puss is

2:01

a lion. I've got the tiny orange

2:03

puss sitting on my shoulder right

2:05

now. But today

2:08

we have a very special fan

2:10

pick from our lovely friend, Maddie

2:12

Miller. Maddie Miller.

2:14

Maddie Miller, who chose the

2:17

topic of asshole artists. Yes.

2:21

And I do have a funny little comment

2:23

from Maddie in my case, because

2:25

I'm doing their fan recommendation case

2:28

of like a quote from one

2:30

of their professors at art school that

2:32

like solidified their love for the genre.

2:34

Yes. I'm very excited to

2:37

share it with you. I can't wait.

2:39

It's really good. Thank

2:42

you for blessing us with that, Maddie Miller. Oh

2:44

my gosh, I'm so excited to dive in. My

2:46

case today is nuts. I'm

2:48

surprised that I hadn't heard of this

2:51

person, although I say that every time

2:53

and I've never heard of anyone. Yeah,

2:56

well, as you say, you're a bad true crime

2:58

boss. I am. So I

3:00

really shouldn't be surprised anymore. But again,

3:03

for the folks who are on

3:05

Patreon at $5 or more and are seeing this

3:07

video episode, I am not

3:10

in my office because I just had surgery

3:12

and I can't do stairs without crawling. So

3:16

Bill moved my recording

3:18

equipment upstairs to the kitchen. So

3:20

that's why you're seeing a little

3:23

different background today. Yeah. But

3:26

don't worry, Lucy's haunted doll is

3:28

still lurking behind her. Oh, God.

3:31

Are Tressa and I wearing the same hat? Yes.

3:35

You're both not well. We are

3:37

not fucking well. She's not

3:39

well because she doesn't have eyes. What's

3:43

your excuse? I have

3:45

so many excuses. That's

3:47

true. That's true. That's true.

3:50

I have a handful of excuses,

3:52

which is actually a perfect segue

3:54

for our pairing today because I

3:59

want two things. One, the universe

4:02

has kind of decided to take

4:05

a huge hot dump down my

4:07

family's throat this weekend. If you

4:09

follow me on Instagram, then you know what I'm talking about. So

4:11

I wanted a fucking drink and

4:13

I haven't had a fucking drink in

4:16

weeks because of surgery and

4:18

I have not had any oxy today.

4:20

So I am allowed to have a

4:23

fucking drink. Good for you. Don't

4:25

mix the two. No, no, no, no, no, no.

4:28

I'm playing it safer than that,

4:31

at least. This also

4:33

means I probably can't take it tonight before

4:35

bed, but I'll see how I'm feeling. But

4:37

that's probably a good thing because I don't

4:40

want to be visited by the pale man who

4:42

apparently shows up in my oxy dreams.

4:46

I got like kicked off Instagram because

4:48

of this. You guys just tell them. The

4:51

pale man. Okay, so the other night

4:54

I had a nightmare where I was

4:57

feeding Blanche, my rabbit, who for those

4:59

who don't know is an albino white

5:01

lion head rabbit with like red eyes

5:03

and I was

5:06

feeding him and talking to him in

5:08

his cage. And then before my eyes,

5:10

he started to like anamorph into just

5:13

like a pale naked

5:15

man with red eyes, like

5:17

stretching out. He

5:19

was disgusting and I was like freaking out and I

5:21

ran and then he was like lurking and chasing me

5:23

around my house and I was like trying to scream

5:25

for my husband to be like pale man, pale man,

5:28

like get rid of him. And

5:30

Bill like couldn't hear me and I was trying to like

5:32

look at Bill and be like fucking pale like giving him

5:34

eyes like pale man is right there. Like why are you

5:36

not doing anything about this? And

5:39

then suddenly I was getting in my

5:41

bed and I thought I was getting in bed

5:43

with Bill, but it was pale man had like

5:45

replaced Bill in my bed. He

5:48

was trying to attack me and I was fighting him and

5:50

fighting him and fighting him and I was like choking him

5:52

and in my dream I was screaming like

5:54

I will kill you, I will kill you

5:56

and I guess I woke up whispering I

5:59

will kill you. at like

6:01

two in the morning in bed

6:03

with my poor sleeping husband. Immediately

6:06

went to threads and was like, no one's awake.

6:08

I have to talk to somebody about this. I

6:10

can't go back to sleep. So I tweeted, I'll

6:13

write it about Pale Man. And then texted Robbie,

6:15

who also never sleeps. And I was like, you

6:17

need to comfort me because the Pale

6:19

Man is in my house. To which

6:21

Robbie was no help at all. He was like,

6:23

oh my gosh, this is hilarious. It's such good

6:25

writing for the next episode of Ghost Wax.

6:28

I was like, fuck you. Don't use it.

6:30

Robbie wouldn't eat that up. Yeah, don't use

6:32

my haunting Pale Man nightmare.

6:35

So now I'm like, do

6:37

I have nighttime like post surgery

6:39

nerve pain and just bear it?

6:41

Or do I have a date

6:43

with Pale Man? Do I risk

6:46

Pale Man? Do I risk Pale

6:48

Man with my five fucking milligrams

6:50

of oxycodone? But you

6:52

posted something on Instagram about it and I

6:54

had already heard the story. And so I

6:56

tried to comment. I

6:58

will kill you. Losing up

7:00

fans from Instagram. Your

7:05

comment goes against our community. It's

7:07

like, you guys just don't get it. It's

7:10

like, it's an inside joke. Don't

7:12

be like a fucking downer. Such

7:14

a crude. Such a narc. So

7:17

those, that's, I'm,

7:19

I'm hoping that I don't meet

7:21

Pale Man tonight, but I

7:24

am drinking a little variation

7:26

of a cocktail called the

7:28

Grand Oh, Oh, to help

7:31

me fight the Pale Man. So you know

7:33

how much I love Grand Marnier. So

7:36

this is Grand Marnier. It's a little

7:38

soda water. It's like a splash of

7:40

orange juice, a little bit of lemon

7:42

juice and ice. That's

7:46

it. Oh, it's so easy. It's

7:49

oh, it's so refreshing. It's

7:51

very simple. They

7:54

recommend one

7:56

and a half ounces of Grand Marnier. If I'm

7:59

being honest about how. I made this I

8:01

filled my tumbler with ice which is now melted because

8:03

I did pour this cocktail like an hour ago Because

8:06

I couldn't wait. I wanted to start sipping it. I

8:08

filled my tumbler with ice and

8:11

I started pouring in

8:13

Grant Like

8:16

halfway with granny and then I was like,

8:19

oh god like I spaced out Hey, there's

8:21

ice in it. There's no

8:23

way to measure it Just go what no what

8:25

feels right in your heart go with your gut

8:27

scream inside your heart And then yeah, I just

8:29

put like a little splash of OJ squeeze in

8:31

some lemon juice and topped off the rest with

8:33

soda water And I gotta

8:35

say She was sounds delicious,

8:38

also what do you Before

8:41

we started recording you lifted that glass to

8:43

your face and I was like why is

8:45

it blue? Monstrosity

8:47

are you drinking? Yeah, you could add

8:49

blue carousel if you really feel like

8:51

it I guess You

8:54

be blue you be blue But

8:56

I also wanted to just chat for

8:58

a minute about Grand Marnier because it

9:01

is my like go to alcohol

9:04

oh and

9:06

I Know that I have

9:09

oh, I know that I've like mentioned my

9:11

love of granny before but I've never really

9:14

dove in to Where

9:17

this even really comes from let's

9:20

dive baby So we're gonna dive

9:22

for just a minute Grand

9:24

Marnier that was founded or like

9:27

started in 1827

9:29

oh shit, so that's almost

9:31

two centuries ago Jean Baptiste

9:34

le posture Built

9:38

a high quality built a

9:41

high quality fruit liqueur distillery in Nepali

9:44

shit a small city outside

9:46

of Paris and This

9:49

distillery just like popped off people

9:51

were like holy shit. This is

9:53

really fucking good then 1876

9:57

Jean Baptiste granddaughter Julia married is

10:00

Louis Alexandre Monnier and the

10:03

Monnier family were wine merchants who

10:06

started distributing this product, obviously

10:09

under a different name. And so

10:12

like they got married and like forged

10:14

a family booze empire basically.

10:17

My dream. Yeah, by 1880,

10:20

they, you know, started this whole

10:22

orange cognac situation. They

10:28

have orange. Can we talk about this

10:30

right now? We both have our orange cat. We

10:33

do. We do have our orange cat.

10:35

Ray looks deranged. Yes,

10:37

he is. So they

10:41

were, they got this idea that which was

10:43

like the birth of Grand Marnier as we

10:45

know it now, they were already kind of

10:47

in the cognac business, but then they

10:50

did, I don't want to

10:52

say discovered because they didn't fucking discover it,

10:54

but we're introduced to a rare variety of

10:56

oranges from the Caribbean. And so

10:58

they thought, wow, this could be

11:00

like a really good combo to

11:02

combine these specific oranges with this

11:04

liqueur recipe. And like voila,

11:07

you have Grand Marnier in 1880. Yeah.

11:10

Deep fucking delicious. I didn't know it was

11:12

that old. I mean, I could have

11:14

inferred from the font because it's an

11:17

old ass font. In fact, it's so

11:19

old by means that the bottle designs

11:21

that we know and love even now

11:23

was started in 1892 and they have

11:26

not changed it. Wow,

11:29

good for them. Like you can look

11:31

at photos on their website of like

11:33

original bottles and they are literally the

11:35

same. They've just changed like the

11:38

process of printing their labels.

11:40

So the label looks a little bit older,

11:42

but they always did the seal.

11:44

I think it used to be wax. Now it's just

11:47

pla- like film. They always did

11:49

the ribbon and then the wax seal

11:51

on the front. They still honor that. This used

11:53

to be gold, but now it's red. And I

11:55

think that they have different wax

11:58

seal colors for liqueur. like

12:00

different versions of Grand

12:02

Marnier. So yeah, like I just thought

12:04

that was super cool. It's like when you get

12:06

it right, you just keep it. Like

12:09

what would be the point? Why is that because

12:11

it ain't broke? Yep. So

12:13

yeah, I guess Grand Marnier was like

12:15

a huge part of like the Art

12:17

Nouveau movement in Paris between

12:20

1880 and 1914. It

12:22

was super, super popular.

12:26

And they kind of like launched this bottle

12:28

and then there's like myths about how this

12:31

was like the shape inspiration for

12:33

like the Eiffel Tower, the

12:35

Metro, the opera. It's like, they

12:39

ushered in this kind of Art

12:41

Nouveau style. I

12:43

feel like I've seen like old,

12:46

like add prints for Grand

12:48

Marnier that are like the

12:50

woman with the big orange, like around

12:52

the bottle, you know what I mean? It's

12:55

kind of like, it

12:57

reminds me of like the times of like,

13:00

what the fuck is the liquor that makes

13:02

you hallucinate? Oh, yes. I

13:05

don't want to say for now. It's not

13:07

for that. It's like green. Yeah.

13:10

And we always heard things. Absence. That

13:13

it'll put holes in your brain, bitch.

13:15

Kind of reminds me of that, like

13:17

sort of, if you think of like

13:19

an absence poster. Yeah, it's

13:21

very like. It's a wispy

13:23

vibe. The bottle design is very

13:25

reminiscent of like an apothecary. Yes.

13:28

Which I think is super cool. And then in 1927, they released for

13:33

their 100th anniversary, this really cool

13:35

line of special editions and the

13:37

bottles are gorgeous. I have to

13:40

imagine that if anyone, they're definitely

13:42

collector's items. Like if anybody has

13:44

any of these, they're probably worth a fuck

13:46

ton of money because they don't make those

13:49

limited edition bottles anymore. But yeah,

13:51

then they expanded their distribution

13:54

essentially worldwide. Like they crossed to the other

13:57

side of the Atlantic in the 20th century.

13:59

And it just. started getting used in cocktails

14:01

all over the world. And now you can

14:03

essentially find it anywhere that there is

14:05

alcohol. That's so cool. I

14:07

know, it was such a cool little story. So

14:09

I just wanted to share that.

14:12

And before we dive

14:14

into, you know, the

14:16

background and psych on asshole artists and

14:18

toast to Maddie Miller, I

14:20

just wanted to share some fun facts

14:22

about my favorite booth. I like

14:24

that. Are you drinking anything? Yes, I

14:27

have this can. Cute. I

14:30

think it's pronounced neutral. I

14:32

would imagine. Natural, but it's

14:34

like, Nurtle. Nurtle. Nurtle. It's

14:37

a seltzer. It's a vodka seltzer,

14:39

real juice. And I have the

14:41

peach lemonade variety. Freaking yum. I've

14:44

never had it before. I got

14:46

a six pack at the grocery

14:48

store. Well, an eight pack earlier

14:50

today. I love that you're

14:52

trying out all these fun, new canned

14:55

beverages like mob water and

14:57

neutral. Now that I can drink again, I

14:59

just go to the store and I'm like,

15:01

that looks fun. Yeah, welcome back, baby. Well,

15:03

do you want to do the honors of

15:05

cracking and give us a really

15:08

do a nice crack? Okay,

15:10

ready? We'll do it. Here's

15:12

my nitro crack. Oh,

15:16

it's flash on my face. Oh no, lick it.

15:19

Also, Bean's definitely drank out of my booze

15:22

cup earlier when we were recording ads. So if

15:24

she's just not able to walk on a straight

15:26

line later, it's because I'm a bad mom. Cheers

15:29

to that. Cheers. It's a

15:31

motherhood. It's a motherhood. All

15:34

right, before we dive into your background and

15:36

psych, should we take a quick break to hear

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18:30

right. Welcome back. Lucy.

18:32

Yes. Are you ready to give

18:35

us our background in psych this week for asshole

18:37

artists? I do. And I actually

18:39

am pretty heavy on the psych this week.

18:41

I want to really deliver. You

18:43

can't really talk about art without

18:46

the brain. Yeah. Yeah.

18:50

Take it away, babe. Or assholery.

18:53

That too. Today we're

18:55

going to be exploring the intersection

18:57

between artists and asshole. We're going

19:00

to be exploring the asshole today.

19:02

That Venn diagram heavily

19:05

overlaps. So

19:08

a study performed at the University

19:11

of North Carolina found that humility

19:13

negatively correlates with creativity.

19:15

So if you're like too

19:17

humble, you're probably not creative. You have to be a

19:19

little bit of a narcissist. Is that what it's saying? Yes.

19:24

They tend to be less modest and

19:26

more arrogant, even though they tend to

19:28

be curious, broadminded, and

19:30

open to new experiences.

19:33

I'll take it. So yep. Another

19:36

study at the Kellogg School of

19:38

Management asked their subjects to draw

19:40

the letter E on

19:42

their foreheads. And so

19:45

researchers found that the more power

19:47

someone possessed, I'm unclear

19:49

about like I was actual power, like maybe

19:51

they were higher up at work or they

19:53

were just more self-confident, but it might

19:56

have been both of those things. But

19:58

the more power they possessed... the more

20:01

likely they were to draw the letter

20:03

from their perspective. So the

20:05

letter E would have been backwards

20:07

to a viewer. So

20:09

hold on, if I go like this, is that

20:12

backwards for me or backwards for you? That's

20:14

backwards for you. Oh, I

20:17

think about other people. Exactly. It

20:19

feels weird to do it like this. This

20:21

is because powerful people have more trouble

20:24

seeing things from other people's perspectives. More

20:27

causes individuals to give too much

20:29

weight to their own perspective and

20:31

therefore will have more trouble adjusting

20:33

or even considering other people's

20:36

points of view. So

20:39

that does make sense.

20:41

Yeah. Yeah. E, if I

20:43

were to draw an E, I think

20:47

I would just assume that it would be so

20:49

that people looking at my forehead could see the

20:51

letter E. Yeah. Well,

20:54

you and I are... We're

20:56

mirrored. We're mirrored. So actually, I'm wrong.

20:59

You were doing it from your own

21:01

perspective, the way you were drawing it.

21:04

Was I? It feels backwards to me.

21:07

I feel like I was drawing it like a three if

21:09

I was looking. I don't know if we are mirrored. Anyway,

21:11

it's fine. There's no way to know. This is very confusing.

21:14

We are mirrored the way that we see each other

21:16

in this camera. Are

21:19

we? So if you think about... Okay. So

21:22

draw your vertical line down

21:24

the middle and then

21:26

draw your three lines. Which

21:30

direction are you drawing your three lines? Toward

21:33

the left, like right to left. That

21:37

would be for someone else to read it. Yes.

21:40

Yes. Yeah. That's why

21:42

you are less creative and more humble.

21:45

That's fine. Yeah. Except...

21:48

Yeah. I

21:52

know, but it was confusing because we have these

21:54

cameras involved. John,

21:57

don't tighten any of that up. leave

22:00

it loose. Leave it real loose.

22:03

Keep it loose. According

22:08

to the American Psychology Association, when

22:10

it comes to art, there

22:12

are two ways of seeing the world.

22:15

So non-artists can only

22:18

draw icons of objects

22:20

rather than the objects

22:22

themselves. So for

22:24

example, if you were to draw

22:27

an apple, imagine yourself drawing an

22:29

apple. So

22:33

most people would draw an archetypal

22:35

side view of an apple rather

22:37

than the curves, the colors,

22:40

the shadows that we see with

22:42

our eyeballs. 1000%

22:44

I am not an artist type. I cannot draw for

22:46

shit. You're pretty good though. I

22:49

feel like I'm pretty good. You are pretty good. Artists

22:51

have a special way of translating what

22:54

they see into more of patterns. Actually,

22:57

I was just talking to Corey about this earlier today.

23:01

We were talking about when it comes

23:03

close to Christmas time when you got

23:05

your Sears catalog or your Delia's catalog

23:07

and you circled the things that you

23:09

wanted. I

23:11

was like, yes, I totally did that. But

23:13

I also illustrated

23:15

a full list in full

23:17

marker color of exactly what

23:19

I wanted. And then on

23:22

Christmas day or the afternoon,

23:25

after we opened our gifts, I

23:27

would make another page of drawings

23:29

of what I got. I

23:33

think you're just a serial killer.

23:36

I just like to draw. My

23:38

husband's an artist. This painting behind me is

23:40

one of his. Oh, so

23:42

good. Yeah. I mean, I'm not really

23:44

showing you this very well because I can't

23:46

just move my entire computer up. But I

23:49

have a bunch of we have a bunch of cases of his. You

23:51

could, but you're not. And that's okay.

23:53

I could, but I'm not. Yes, you're

23:56

right. I'm humble enough to be like, fuck that.

23:58

Yeah, but I still have the quality. he was

24:00

like, oh, so you could like compare and

24:02

contrast and then like illustrate a full list

24:05

of the things that you didn't get

24:07

and like, yeah, under your parents. Yeah.

24:10

Like, I just like to draw a

24:12

picture you doing that. I just

24:15

like to indulge the things that I wanted

24:17

and the things that I got. Like I,

24:19

of course, I put more effort into those

24:21

drawings and like, thank you.

24:23

I mean, essentially, you just invented

24:25

bullet journaling. That's like all it

24:27

is. Yeah, I was brilliant bullet

24:29

journaling. I have my bullet journal right

24:32

here. I believe it. I

24:34

bet it's cute. It's my bullet journal.

24:37

It says believe women really big on the

24:39

front. I love it. Yeah, I have

24:41

a whole, yeah, I have my whole,

24:43

I have your social

24:45

security number in here somewhere. You

24:47

sure do. Yep. Maybe

24:50

burn that. No, I have

24:52

all of my passwords in like a code.

24:55

It's like a hieroglyph password.

25:01

You're such a fucking lunatic. I love

25:03

it. It's very secure. Break in my

25:05

house and steal my password notebook. No,

25:08

that's not what safer than having it. That

25:11

bullet journal is not what they're after. I

25:13

promise you. That's a very safe spot. You're

25:16

good. But yes, I do. I

25:20

was in the bullet journaling.

25:22

Okay, we'll kind of get

25:24

to it. Okay, icons, apples.

25:26

Okay, a researcher named Stein

25:28

Wot, Stein

25:30

Wütze at

25:33

the University of Oslo conducted

25:36

a study where she found that

25:38

when tasked to view pictures, the

25:40

eyes of artists tend to scan

25:43

the entire picture including like the

25:45

empty spaces so they would see

25:47

like where things are placed within

25:50

the space. But

25:53

non-artists focus more on the

25:55

objects themselves. They weren't concerned

25:57

about the areas where there

25:59

weren't. objects? Sure.

26:03

This observation suggests that non-artists

26:05

were more busy turning the

26:07

images into concepts where the

26:10

artists were taking notes of

26:12

like colors and

26:14

shadows and arrangements of

26:17

the overall tableau. Cool,

26:19

okay. Yeah, according

26:23

to John Holland, who's an American

26:26

psychologist, there are six personality types

26:28

and this is gonna give you

26:30

major like middle school family and

26:32

consumer sciences vibes. I can't wait

26:35

to tag myself, let's go. Yeah,

26:37

okay. So these are

26:39

the six personality types. Realistic,

26:43

investigative, artistic,

26:46

social, intriguing,

26:48

and conventional. I'm

26:51

probably just social without even knowing the

26:53

details. Yeah, we don't

26:55

let's confirm. These

26:57

are often called the Holland codes or

26:59

the Holland occupational scenes and they refer

27:02

to a taxonomy of interests based on

27:04

a theory of careers and vocational choice.

27:06

I was literally just gonna say why

27:09

do I feel like this sounds like

27:11

our like middle school family and

27:14

cuz yes. Yeah, where we took like

27:16

what career would be right for you. I think I

27:19

was supposed to be a teacher, which is funny because

27:21

I was a teacher for a year and

27:23

I hated it. I didn't love it.

27:27

I don't remember what I'd rather be

27:29

a student. Mine was probably like you

27:31

won't make it to 35. Just

27:35

don't bother. Don't

27:38

invest too heavily in this. That's

27:43

our honest recommendation. You know what,

27:45

just enjoy it. Enjoy the ride.

27:48

Your career is a make a wish kid

27:50

at Disneyland. Yeah, this is a mess. You

27:53

just have to try to have fun. That's

27:56

our recommendation. Try to just soak

27:59

it in. If you graduate,

28:01

it'll be a miracle. Or

28:05

I don't remember because I didn't even

28:08

attend that day because I was skipping class

28:10

so much that I just didn't have a

28:12

future career path. It's just been a

28:14

sign to you to just enjoy the ride.

28:19

Will someone go outside to the playground and

28:21

tell Amanda to just enjoy the ride? To

28:23

fucking come back in because Risas was over

28:25

three hours ago. She's

28:27

still making potions in the backlot. You

28:30

gotta call Suzanne again. God.

28:34

Put her on the bus. Seriously. The

28:37

artistic personality trait known as

28:40

the creator, the creative creator

28:42

type, frequently

28:44

involves working with ideas and

28:46

requires an extensive amount of

28:48

thinking. Boring.

28:51

Yeah. Just kidding. They

28:53

are energized by using their imagination

28:55

and like to express themselves through

28:57

the creativity. Most creators

29:00

shy away from routine.

29:03

They like unstructured environments and they like

29:05

work that can be done without following

29:07

a clear set of rules. This

29:10

does track for me. It

29:12

does track for you. I consider myself

29:14

a creative person, but I love rules.

29:21

Schedules. Schedules.

29:23

Time frames. I

29:26

thrive off of that. Love a routine.

29:28

I do love a routine. It bothers

29:31

me when other people can't like abide

29:33

to a routine. You know what I

29:35

mean? Yep. And you know,

29:37

even if some of us can't like abide

29:39

to a routine, we need

29:41

to respect yours. Yes. And

29:43

that's the rule following portion of

29:45

my personality. Yep. And like, because

29:48

I've never been one who can really

29:50

abide by a routine, but I could respect

29:52

your routine and so we don't have like

29:54

beef around it. Mm hmm. Yeah,

29:56

exactly. It is what it is. Yeah. And because

29:58

I don't need to abide by such a routine.

30:00

I'm totally fine like defaulting to your

30:03

routine. It's not conflicting No,

30:06

it just works for me where I'm like, well,

30:08

I have no fucking stability in my

30:10

everyday life So like I'm gonna follow

30:13

Your routine but I work for

30:15

me, but I still consider myself to be

30:17

a creative person I absolutely

30:19

agree. Maybe I just fall into some

30:21

of these other categories more than others

30:24

I have to imagine there is a

30:26

fuck ton of overlap and you're never just

30:28

one of these things Yeah,

30:30

humans are too complicated to be in six

30:33

categories. So You're

30:35

a part of pie chart. Yep So

30:38

personality traits used to

30:40

describe creators include originality

30:42

creativity independence

30:45

intuitiveness sensitivity imagination

30:48

and spontaneity cute.

30:51

Okay. Have I told you about the most

30:53

spontaneous thing I've ever done and it wasn't

30:55

ordering a ribeye at lunch No,

30:58

what was it? That was pretty spontaneous though.

31:01

I cannot believe I did that. I was

31:03

so hungry Was it going to China? No,

31:05

it was like I want to say

31:07

like 12 years ago 10 or 12 years ago

31:10

I'm living in my apartment

31:13

and I was looking out the window and I

31:15

saw a little dog Running down

31:17

the street. Yes, I

31:19

was like I have to go say that dog I

31:22

went through a phase of like saving animals. I

31:24

saved a deer. I saved a bird. This is

31:26

all within like a month I

31:29

fully saved a deer. I chased it back

31:31

into the woods away from the highway Anyway

31:39

Okay Both

31:41

hours our apartment it's right. Just

31:43

dog I just grabbed my

31:45

keys so I wouldn't get locked out of my

31:47

apartment. I think I was barefoot I ran

31:50

out of my apartment. I was gonna catch

31:53

this little dog by the time I got

31:55

outside I couldn't find the dog

31:58

So it's like it's a beautiful day I'm gonna

32:00

go for a drive so I hopped in my car Didn't

32:03

have my phone didn't have shoes didn't have

32:05

my wallet my purse anything I just went

32:08

for a little drive around town if you

32:10

had gotten into an accident They would have had to

32:12

identify you by your teeth. Yes. Well,

32:14

no, I didn't own your car

32:17

Contaneous that's why I felt so

32:19

free. Wow. I had no identifying

32:21

information. I never did see that

32:23

dog again I Don't

32:26

hide that dog. First of all wasn't

32:28

real you elusive that dog It

32:32

piped piper you out of your house

32:34

it did But that is

32:36

totally the kind of shit that like that's how

32:38

a serial killer would get me It's like let

32:40

a dog run through my backyard and I'm immediately

32:42

gonna be like yeah, I gotta go save that

32:45

dog Yeah, you know, yeah, that's

32:47

how you that's how they'll get you

32:50

I will throw my nothing car into

32:52

park. Yeah on a busy street to

32:54

go save that dog Yeah,

32:56

you called me crying once on

32:58

the way back to Iowa because you'd

33:00

hit a squirrel I think it was

33:02

babe. I was driving from Iowa to

33:04

Minnesota and I exploded

33:07

the squirrel 35

33:09

yeah, that was a world crosses 35 that

33:11

squirrel was that that's work That

33:15

was that squirrel took its own

33:17

life She would

33:19

have made it Panicked and

33:21

doubled back and that's when she

33:23

hit me. She hit me. Oh

33:26

my god Yeah, I felt it

33:29

bubbles so upset. No, yeah.

33:32

Yes. I yes It

33:34

was awful. I actually don't want to

33:36

think about it. It was bad. Don't

33:38

I call you weeping I

33:41

called my mother weeping I called Corey and

33:43

he was like I'm in a work meeting

33:46

Important and I was like, yeah Carrying

33:49

your child and she's complicit in

33:51

this squirrel murder because she's inside

33:53

me. I'm a murderous We're

33:56

murderers. I've murdered a squirrel

33:59

I'm a that squirrel. I

34:02

hope she died fast. It felt

34:04

like it. Yeah, I think if you're

34:06

popped like a balloon it's probably pretty

34:09

quick. From the, from my

34:11

tires it felt like she died real quick.

34:13

Oh my god. Okay, so

34:15

moving on from the psychology of

34:18

artists and assholes, let's talk about

34:20

art colonies which is the safe

34:22

haven for both artists and assholes

34:24

to be. Is this

34:27

like a hippie commune

34:30

artist community? We live

34:32

together, we create together kind of thing?

34:34

Yeah, honey. Okay. You got to

34:36

be a certain type to live there. Yeah,

34:39

the type that doesn't require running

34:41

water to wash yourself for one. Well,

34:43

a lot of these had running water. They

34:46

were like full ass. Okay, we'll get to

34:48

it. All of these artists colonies

34:50

should be like sponsored by Lumi Deodorant

34:52

because I'm sure they reek. I

34:55

know, I know. So

34:57

art colonies emerged in the 19th

34:59

century as artists started leaving the

35:01

cities, the more urban areas for

35:04

like the countryside, like we're getting

35:06

back to the land. Well, how

35:08

the fuck can you even afford a

35:10

studio in a big

35:12

city as an artist? Like, I

35:14

mean, 1800s, it's like

35:17

the 19th century. You're not really,

35:19

you're like on the cusp of

35:21

like industrialization. It was

35:23

more about the getting outside

35:26

the box, man. Being

35:29

inspired by your surroundings. Like

35:31

the urban areas were getting

35:33

so industrialized that you're like,

35:35

oh, I think it had

35:37

less to do with like cost of

35:39

living. Right. Okay. Yeah, I'm

35:42

thinking through a very modern lens. But yeah,

35:44

now that you're clarifying when

35:47

this became a thing. I think it was

35:49

more about the ideology about it. Also, I

35:51

think that artists at that time probably made

35:53

more money than artists today.

35:55

Yeah. You know, adjusting

35:58

for inflation and whatever. Well,

36:01

inflation and also things that we could

36:03

never see coming like the internet and

36:05

fucking AI. I can't imagine trying to

36:07

make a living now as like

36:10

a visual artist when the

36:13

market is so saturated. I mean, I think

36:15

about this with podcasting, like there, anybody

36:18

can create. And

36:20

I think that that's so amazing. And I don't want

36:22

to gatekeep any of these industries.

36:24

I really do believe that like, the

36:27

more creatives there are, the more exposure

36:29

we have to all of these people's

36:31

incredible talents. Absolutely. When the

36:33

water rises, everybody rises, you know, I

36:35

do believe that. But I think that there

36:38

are also challenges that come with

36:40

that where it's like, how do

36:42

you get yourself discovered and start to

36:44

make a living when you're competing against

36:46

millions of people around? It's global. Mm

36:49

hmm. That have access to your work. It's

36:51

hard. I think that

36:54

is a super valid argument. Also,

36:56

when it comes to AI, that

37:00

argument, especially when it comes to

37:02

like, artists, is

37:05

like exponentially more applicable. Yeah,

37:07

because it's cannibalizing existing work

37:09

to create its own automated

37:12

ideas. Yeah, it's also fucking robot.

37:14

It's not real people. No, no,

37:17

you don't need to pay a

37:19

chatbot. Mm hmm. Like, what's not

37:21

this podcast? Honestly, that would actually

37:24

be fucking hilarious if we did

37:26

an AI episode where we like,

37:29

gave a chatbot to write us a

37:31

script and had them write us a

37:33

script and had us read it. Not

37:36

that I want to like platform AI, but

37:39

that does sound really fun. It will be

37:41

really fucking funny. That could be like a

37:43

good drunk dive or a good gag segment.

37:45

That's a great idea. Maybe we'll do that for the

37:47

Patreon the paints. Cool.

37:50

The paints were coming for you. Yeah.

37:53

Okay, so these artists that move to artist

37:55

compounds are sorry, art

37:58

colonies, they wanted to. reserved

38:00

a simple life and they found beauty

38:02

in their natural surroundings. The

38:04

majority of the first art colonies were located

38:06

in France, the Netherlands,

38:08

and Germany, and

38:11

soon spread to the United States. This,

38:14

this tracks that they started in France.

38:17

Totally. The city. The city.

38:19

It's so well- It's polluting. I mean,

38:21

it fucking is. Yeah. It's so well-

38:24

It's polluting. It's polluting. It's

38:26

polluting. I mean, it

38:28

fucking is. Yes. To be

38:30

fair. According

38:33

to the traditional fine arts

38:36

organization, some of the more

38:38

well-known historic American art colonies

38:41

include the bird, bird

38:44

cliff colony, bird

38:46

with a Y. Beard Cliff. Oh,

38:48

like a person's name. Yeah.

38:51

But bird with a Y and cliff

38:53

with an E. Where is that?

38:57

It's just outside of Woodstock, New York.

39:00

Ever heard of it? Of course. Okay.

39:03

This is the- This gets upstate. Yeah.

39:06

This has got old money. Yeah.

39:08

This is the oldest operating arts

39:10

and crafts colony in America. So

39:13

in 1902, construction of the

39:15

Beard Cliff Rails art colony

39:17

began on Mount Guardian just

39:19

outside of Woodstock, New York.

39:22

When construction finished in 1903, the colony had 30 buildings.

39:27

This is like a whole- That's big.

39:29

It's a colony. It's a whole- It's

39:32

a village. This

39:35

colony is often referred to as

39:37

the textbook example of a utopian

39:39

arts and crafts community. But

39:42

also, I feel like

39:45

an arts colony

39:48

feels a little bit stuck,

39:53

like a little bit self-aware. But

39:56

when you throw crafts- I was just going to

39:59

say, now it's sounding like a- hippie summer camp

40:01

and that sounds fun. I'm

40:03

in it for the crafts. I'm fully in it for

40:05

the crafts, which is art.

40:08

It is art in its own way. But it's

40:10

something about mentioning the crafts portion of it

40:13

that makes it a little bit more appealing,

40:15

a little more down to earth, a little

40:17

bit more accessible. Accessible. I'm

40:19

here with that. A little bit more popsicle

40:21

stick. Yes. I want to, I

40:24

want to make those like popsicle stick yarn,

40:26

like cross weavings. Wasn't it called

40:28

like the eye of Jesus or

40:31

something really like religious? Probably. I

40:33

want to make gimp bracelets. I

40:35

want to make, I want to

40:37

make those beaded lizards.

40:40

Yeah, totally. Remember

40:43

those beaded lizards? I loved all the

40:45

cool girls had those on their backpacks.

40:48

Yeah, we need to bring those back.

40:50

A cool girl, a cool girl taught

40:52

me how to make those in thousand

40:55

percent. I never wanted enough for girls

40:57

to ever learn how to make those. So

40:59

now I have to heal my inner child

41:01

and learn how to make it. I hung

41:03

out with one cool girl one time. She

41:05

taught me how to make a beaded lizard.

41:07

I never looked back. I

41:09

never hung out with her again.

41:11

I got back at her as

41:13

you ran away

41:15

from her after learning

41:19

your skill is what you mean.

41:21

To go show Scott how to make it.

41:23

I didn't look back. I

41:27

left her in my dust. Just

41:34

kidding. I just picture me like, thank

41:36

you for reading away. Never

41:38

speaking to her. Thanks

41:41

Alexandra. What was

41:43

the cool girl name? Tiffany

41:46

Samantha. Samantha.

41:48

Kelly was such a cool girl name

41:50

in like the late 80s, early 90s.

41:52

Yeah. Jennifer.

41:55

So many cool girls. Every

41:58

Jennifer was the best. Natalie,

42:01

mmm. Damn. They

42:03

knew how to make beaded lizards. Let

42:06

me fucking tell you. And they made

42:08

they were also like, so

42:10

good at the gimpy chains that were

42:12

like the spiraling like, that

42:14

you know, that like plastic floss that you

42:17

could like fold over and not I remember

42:19

the plastic. Yeah, you could make these like,

42:22

like Stu CS on crack 3d

42:24

like spiral Oh, yeah. I learned

42:28

to make some of those but I

42:30

was never as like hard. Oh, I

42:32

know. They look kind of braided. Yes,

42:34

I feel like we're going to give

42:37

Andrea our production manager and john our editor,

42:40

a run for the money. Trying

42:42

to find fucking photos of whatever

42:46

the fuck we're talking about. I

42:48

want to make those fucking lizards

42:51

with those big legs like the

42:53

chunky beads. Yes, we were we're

42:55

fucking doing this. This like 100%

42:57

happening. Yeah, beans. beans.

42:59

I remember once I tried to make a lizard but

43:01

I like fucked it up. It just turned into like

43:03

a triangle and I just called it a man's array.

43:05

Yes, accurate. Because you're

43:08

an artist bitch. You're a fucking artist.

43:10

They can't see it. Yeah,

43:12

I'm a creative. That's their fucking

43:15

problem. Move

43:19

to bereda clif. Okay. I

43:22

made this at beer. The case. Okay,

43:25

beer to cliff I had 30 buildings,

43:28

textbook example of a lot beer

43:30

to cliff I had many notable

43:33

guests including Leon Barzan, Bob

43:35

Dylan, Ava

43:38

has he she

43:40

was a sculptor you'd probably recognize her stuff.

43:43

It's like a lot of it's really like

43:45

hairy looking cool. I

43:48

love texture and sculpture like that where

43:50

it looks like creepy little details.

43:52

Yeah, so she lived in like the well

43:55

she she was creating in like the 60s

43:57

70s she died

44:00

the young age of 34. Oh no. She

44:03

had like some brain thing but she created

44:05

a whole bunch of shit.

44:08

Cool. And it is very

44:11

well known. It's recognizable. You'd

44:13

recognize it. Sick. And

44:15

Helen Hayes who I didn't Google.

44:17

In 1976, the colony was

44:20

given to the Woodstock Guild

44:24

of Craftsmen and is still operating

44:27

today under the name Woodstock Beard-A-Clyffe

44:29

Guild. So I think you can

44:31

go visit it. We need,

44:33

we must. And we

44:35

have to go and make these wizards

44:38

and be kicked out on day. Like,

44:40

um, I don't know what you thought

44:42

this was but this is not for

44:44

you ladies. Cap

44:47

Beard-A-Clyffe. Crafts. Crafts.

44:51

We're here for crafts? We

44:54

don't know why we're doing this accent.

44:56

It's in upstate New York. Beard-A-Clyffe. Beard-A-Clyffe.

44:59

So we're gonna blend in. That's

45:02

true. We're gonna blend in. We have to sound

45:04

like Dutch, like dopey little

45:07

Dutch ladies. I'm already

45:09

there. I'm way ahead of you. Okay.

45:11

I'm in. Next one you might be

45:13

familiar with is the Taos art colony.

45:16

Taos. Why would I be familiar

45:18

with that? I don't know. T-A-O-S. Taos. Is

45:20

that how you say it? In

45:22

like New Mexico? Sure. Okay. I

45:25

just, I gave you

45:27

way too much credit. Okay. You

45:29

really did. Taos was New Mexico's

45:31

premier art colony and the first

45:34

significant art colony in the American

45:36

West. Its founders,

45:39

Ernest Blumenshine and Bert

45:41

Phillips and Bert Taos

45:45

were on a painting expedition

45:47

together when their carriage broke

45:49

down near Taos in 1898.

45:51

They got a flat tire. They ate each

45:53

other to survive

45:56

and on that spot they built

45:58

an artist colony. The

46:00

remaining one built an artist colony. The

46:06

one that was last. This is where

46:08

Taos shows up, eats both of these fucking

46:10

idiots and uses their shit to

46:12

make an artist colony. This

46:16

is the only play by that I will

46:18

be allowed. Taos needs salt

46:20

art colony. OK,

46:25

so they got a flat tire in 1898 near Taos. They

46:29

were in awe of the natural beauty

46:31

and intrigued by the Taos of Pueblo

46:33

Indian and Hispanic cultures, and this totally

46:36

reminded me of the plot line of

46:39

Oh, fuck, what's that Showtime show with?

46:43

Why can't I think Nathan?

46:47

Oh, with Nathan Fielder and

46:50

Emma Stone. Emma Stone. Yeah, I don't

46:53

have Showtime, but I have

46:55

heard it's very, very good. Oh, my

46:57

God, it's so fucking funny. It sounds

46:59

like it sounds like a modern version

47:01

of this. Yes, it's a

47:04

curse. Yes. Yes. It sounds like

47:06

a modern version of this. So they they

47:08

broke down there. They were like,

47:10

wow, this is a really beautiful

47:13

area. It's like really cool, kind,

47:15

artsy, like zibey people. Let's just

47:17

like create an artist colony here.

47:21

So the pair settled there and encouraged other

47:23

artists to come and join them. Many

47:26

of the artists who painted in Taos before

47:28

1940 had previously

47:30

met and studied and networked

47:32

in Paris. Oh,

47:35

they're like already like doing each other. Good

47:37

for them. But Taos actually

47:39

is a I have not

47:41

been there, but I had a friend go

47:44

there and she is a photographer. And she

47:46

took so many really fucking gorgeous photos. Just

47:48

like I mean, I love it. Landscape

47:51

wise, it's beautiful. I

47:54

want to move to the desert so bad. I

47:56

want to live in New Mexico or Arizona. Mm-hmm.

48:01

Never look back. Never look back like you did to

48:03

that fucking girl who taught you how to make lizards.

48:05

Ha ha ha, Natalie. Jennifer.

48:09

I'm gonna leave you like Jennifer and just fucking... Peace

48:12

out. And I'm

48:14

gonna move into Taos. I don't know

48:16

why I thought I was... I just got my cool

48:18

card learning how to make the lizards. And never looked

48:20

back. Just needed one, yeah. Never

48:22

looked back. Mom, get me

48:24

those glitter beads. Ha

48:26

ha ha ha ha. You know, they're the beads

48:28

with the glitter in them. Yeah, those are the

48:30

good beads. Yes. Those were like

48:32

the rich girl... rich cool girl beads. That

48:35

was kind of like learning how to code for

48:37

our generation. Ha

48:39

ha ha ha. It really was! It

48:42

was! You have... it's mathematical. You

48:44

gotta map it out. Anyone born

48:47

after... The back legs to the

48:49

tail, you have to measure. Mm-hmm.

48:52

Anyone born after...

48:55

1995... doesn't really

48:57

understand that like, we... our...

49:00

like, games and trends when

49:02

we were children... They were

49:05

so analog. Did not... and did not

49:07

provide us with any usable

49:09

skills for our future. Ha ha ha ha!

49:11

Not... not a fucking one. Ha ha ha

49:14

ha! What am I doing now with gimp

49:17

spiral key chains and fucking

49:19

beaded lizards? Fuck all is what

49:21

I'm doing with that. Ha ha ha

49:23

ha! And like, everybody knows... everybody in our

49:25

age knows how to do that shit, so

49:28

it's not like it's valuable. You can't spell

49:30

it on Etsy. You can't monetize it. Nope.

49:33

It's very limited in its application.

49:36

So limited. It's tragic. Ha

49:39

ha ha ha ha! No

49:41

applicable skills. Oh my god.

49:43

Okay, the last art colony is called

49:46

the Lime Art Colony. L-Y-M-E,

49:48

as in the disease. Okay.

49:51

This art colony was established in 1899

49:55

by painter Henry Ward Ranger

49:57

in Old Lime, Connecticut. Are

50:00

you familiar? Um, no,

50:03

but like everything in Connecticut is

50:05

like a half hour away from everything

50:07

else in Connecticut. So I've probably been near it.

50:10

Okay. You were a

50:13

stone's throw, no matter where you were.

50:16

By 1903, over 200 artists had

50:18

made their way to the town,

50:20

which became known as the home

50:22

of Impressionism. And

50:25

by 1921, the artists opened their own

50:28

cooperative gallery. So

50:30

old Lyme, heavy on the

50:32

Impressionism, obviously not widely

50:36

celebrated enough to extend

50:38

beyond old Lyme

50:40

Connecticut. But yeah,

50:43

there were lots of artists colonies in

50:45

the US in the around the turn

50:47

of the century, early 20th century. Okay.

50:51

And that's okay. And

50:53

we celebrate all these artists and

50:55

probably a lot of them were

50:57

kind of pricks. Probably.

51:01

Anyway, that's, that's really my back. That's

51:03

my background and my psych first. I

51:05

love it. Well, now I want to

51:08

move to an artist colony so bad.

51:11

You'd fit right in. Oh, you,

51:13

I bet you could, I bet if you

51:15

were like a CPA, you could move into

51:18

an artist colony and like do everyone's taxes

51:20

and just make so much money. You

51:22

mean like the general you,

51:25

not like me, because I

51:27

could never. Never become

51:29

a CPA. No, I have

51:31

that number dyslexia thing

51:33

that comes with ADHD.

51:35

No, no, no, no,

51:38

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

51:40

no, no. My taxes are a mess. No,

51:42

yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

51:46

All right. Good. Making

51:48

sure we're on the same page about

51:51

that. The Royal you, not Amanda. Absolutely

51:53

not Amanda. Someone

51:55

could move to an

51:57

artist colony as a CPA or bookkeeper.

52:00

And probably do quite well.

52:02

You are correct about that. I'm

52:05

not the one. No, no, no, no,

52:07

no, no, no, no. Yeah, no, no,

52:09

no, no, no, no, no. Glad we

52:11

cleared that up. Yeah, yeah, no. I

52:14

wouldn't want to leave that hanging unanswered.

52:16

No, no, no, no, no, no. Never

52:18

you. No. Fucking never

52:20

you. My God. Oh my God. No, no,

52:22

no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no,

52:24

no, no. Anyway,

52:34

we should not be yet.

52:36

No, no, yeah, no, no, yeah, no. Let's

52:39

take a break to hear another word from

52:41

our sponsors and then dive into my case.

52:44

Yeah, no, yeah, no, no, no, no,

52:46

no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

52:48

no, no, no. Are

52:54

you ready for my case? Ah,

52:57

maybe. It's a wild one. No,

53:00

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

53:02

no, no, no, no. This

53:04

was recommended by our amazing fan picker

53:06

and I'm so happy.

53:09

Because I learned so much.

53:11

So I'm just, there's

53:13

a lot of good photos. So like get

53:15

ready to see some fucking ore,

53:18

baby. Okay, I'm

53:20

ready. One thing, you know, among

53:22

many things that sparks so

53:24

much joy with this show is just

53:27

getting to know badasses. And we

53:29

get to know a badass today. Her

53:31

name is Anna or Anna Mendieta. Anna

53:35

was an artist, an activist,

53:37

a hardcore feminist, and her

53:39

work was constantly overshadowed by

53:42

that of her more well-known husband

53:44

whose work, oh my fucking

53:46

god, is so fucking mid compared to her. A

53:49

man. Media for man. Literally

53:52

never meet a man and this

53:54

guy, I don't know why he was so

53:56

popular and like maybe I just don't get

53:59

art. But like, Boo.

54:01

Fucking boo. And

54:03

we'll get to it, but like, get ready

54:05

to scream and break things when you see

54:08

a literal pile of bricks

54:10

in a gallery. And we will come back to

54:12

the pile of bricks because I can never recover

54:14

from the pile of bricks. A literal

54:16

pile of bricks? A literal pile

54:18

of bricks. Okay, here we go.

54:21

Over this woman's incredibly like, evocative

54:24

and provocative artwork.

54:26

Anyway, if only overshadowing her work and

54:28

being a piece of shit was the only thing that

54:31

he cost her, like the world was robbed

54:33

of Ana Mendita. So

54:37

let's dive in with Project Peter

54:39

Pan. Do you know what

54:41

that is? No. I'm about

54:43

to tell you. This is the incredibly

54:45

on-the-nose named operation by the US government

54:47

to secretly sneak children out of Cuba

54:50

and into the United States. Stop!

54:53

Ana's parents were a

54:55

like, Cuban power couple. Were

54:57

they abducting children? We'll get to it.

55:00

Okay. Her father was an attorney and

55:03

her mother was a chemist and they were

55:05

initially supportive of and fairly

55:07

friendly with the Castro

55:09

regime. Oh, good. Because as

55:12

we know about the rise of any

55:14

kind of like, dictatorship

55:16

or fascism, they

55:18

kind of

55:21

start with like, oh no, like, we're

55:24

cool. Yeah, we can. We're just

55:26

gorgeous. We connect with the people.

55:28

We're just worried about this one

55:30

thing over here, but like, we're cool guys.

55:32

And then they rope in and then they

55:34

get you. So

55:37

they were, her parents were

55:39

well off. They were upper-crossed. They were like,

55:41

politically well-connected. So it would make sense that

55:43

like, Castro's people would want to kind

55:46

of be in good with them. And

55:49

indoctrinate them. Yeah. And

55:51

in the beginning, shit was going really well for them. And Anna

55:54

was attending a private girl school. Things

55:56

were peachy for her. She's getting a

55:58

great education. Like it's. It's fine.

56:00

Things are not full blown

56:03

fascism like communist regime

56:05

yet. But things got way

56:07

less peachy when the Castro regime

56:09

and the country in general went

56:12

into this specific wave

56:14

of like anti-religious, anti-Catholic

56:16

sentiment that got bad

56:19

enough that the Mendietas who were

56:21

Catholic actually started dabbling in

56:23

counter revolutionary activities to the point

56:25

that they got worried about like

56:28

backlash. Oh shit. So

56:30

the Castro regime began instituting

56:33

a policy of patria potestad,

56:35

which translates to custody, and

56:38

is a fancy way to say stealing

56:40

your kids, removing your parental rights and

56:42

indoctrinating them into the Communist Party. Good

56:45

God. Yeah. So Project

56:48

Peter Pan is like a response to that.

56:50

The Communist Party had already seized control of

56:52

all of the schools. And there

56:54

was a very real fear that Ana and

56:57

her sister Raquel would be taken away and

56:59

brainwashed essentially. So they

57:01

joined Project Peter Pan, which

57:03

was a joint effort between the Catholic Church

57:06

and the US government to sneak kids

57:08

by plane into Miami. So it

57:11

was an elective thing. Yeah.

57:13

That involves the parents. Yeah.

57:16

Like it was kind of a secret

57:18

covert operation to help get kids

57:21

specifically out of Cuba. And

57:23

like by no means am I saying that

57:25

there is nothing problematic about this plan. No.

57:29

But it is important in the context of

57:31

the time to acknowledge the fear that people

57:33

were living in as communism closed it on

57:35

Cuba and fascism closed it on Cuba. And

57:38

these were the lengths that people were willing

57:40

to go to in the hopes of like

57:42

getting their children to some semblance of safety

57:44

and freedom in the United States. So the

57:47

US wasn't stealing children from Cuba? No.

57:50

Without their parents consent anyway. Yeah. This

57:52

is couched in the guise

57:55

of being like a rescue mission. Okay.

57:58

So over 14,000

58:01

children were Peter Panned into America between

58:03

1960 and 1961. Were

58:06

they in one year? Yeah.

58:09

Where the fuck did they go? I

58:12

mean, a lot of them were placed in foster care

58:14

and stuff. Oh. When they

58:16

got here. Oh. So it's

58:18

just these poor little children flown

58:21

away to a land with a lot

58:23

of deeply problematic story beats. Like, this

58:25

is the most Peter Pan shit. Oh,

58:28

man. Fuckin' ever. Yeah.

58:31

It's really scary. And, you know, these families

58:33

are... things are getting

58:35

really, you know, tumultuous in Cuba.

58:38

So these families are getting their children out

58:40

and, like, not knowing if they're ever going to see them

58:42

again. Yeah. Yeah.

58:46

I can't even fucking imagine. I mean, I imagine that

58:48

you'll go to... I'm sure a lot of them just,

58:50

like, disappeared. I'd imagine

58:52

you'd go to any lengths to protect

58:54

your children. That's just, like, innate. But

58:57

this is beyond my comprehension of even

58:59

having to be faced... Like, we

59:01

are so privileged to never have to think about. Yeah.

59:04

A horrible, horrible decision to

59:06

make. So

59:09

the sisters, Anna and Raquel,

59:11

did arrive safely in the United States. They

59:13

spent several weeks in refugee camps, and then

59:15

they bounced around institutions and foster homes throughout

59:17

Iowa. Oh. So

59:20

that's likely very similar a

59:22

story to most of those 14,000 plus kids. I

59:26

mean, Iowa is very similar

59:28

to Cuba. Basically

59:30

the Cuba of the United States is what they

59:32

call Iowa. Yeah. So they

59:34

did get out of Cuba just in time,

59:36

or, like, maybe their parents sent them because

59:39

they were planning to, like,

59:42

ramp up their anti-Castro involvement

59:44

in, like, the counter revolution.

59:48

Because after they got out, Anna's

59:50

father had some involvement in the

59:52

Bay of Pigs disaster and spent

59:54

18 years in a political prison. Oh.

59:58

Wow. So that was in 1961. The

1:00:00

girls don't see their mother or father again

1:00:02

until 1966 or

1:00:05

their brother. They had a brother, too They don't see him

1:00:07

until 1966 and they don't see their father until 1979 when

1:00:11

he was released from prison and got

1:00:13

to go to America and Then he

1:00:15

got here and then he died shortly thereafter

1:00:17

So they waited all those years to see

1:00:19

him He finally makes it to the US

1:00:21

and then he dies within like a year

1:00:23

God. It's horrifying So their

1:00:25

childhood was riddled with chaos

1:00:28

and tragedy Which is heartbreaking

1:00:30

and often the recipe for artistic

1:00:33

expression. Yes trauma equals

1:00:35

art Mm-hmm. So

1:00:37

Anna after the shock and trauma of

1:00:40

the Peter Panning readjusts and pours all

1:00:42

of her emotions into her art Specifically

1:00:45

she's really into painting She

1:00:48

gets a BA MA in painting

1:00:50

from the University of Iowa and

1:00:52

then branches out from painting into

1:00:54

more experimental stuff studying under an

1:00:57

acclaimed artist named Hans breather with

1:00:59

whom she earns her MFA in

1:01:01

intermedia and for those not in

1:01:03

the know Intermedia

1:01:05

is like the space you

1:01:08

explore between art forms

1:01:11

like I was going to ask though

1:01:13

dumping paint over a ballet dancer while

1:01:15

they recite poetry or Doing

1:01:18

a photography collage of a naked

1:01:20

lady, but it's also a haiku.

1:01:22

Mmm. I like that Clearly

1:01:25

I am an art genius and I

1:01:27

totally get this. Yes. I have

1:01:29

no questions Anna moves to New

1:01:31

York in 1978 the city not The

1:01:35

colony the upstate art colony.

1:01:38

Okay. Thank you for clarifying. Yep

1:01:40

and despite being a pretty Tiny

1:01:43

person stature wise which like will become

1:01:45

revel into the forensics later. She has

1:01:47

a Yeah,

1:01:50

she has a powerful Personality

1:01:52

she's got big vision. She's

1:01:55

got a huge voice and she has a lot

1:01:57

to fucking say with her. Okay So

1:01:59

with a lot of buzz around her, she

1:02:01

does attract the attention of feminist

1:02:03

art icons like Nancy Sparrow, Mary

1:02:05

Beth Edelson, and Carolee Schneeman. And

1:02:08

there are some pictures of their work, of

1:02:10

these feminist artists work on the drive,

1:02:13

for reference, that will go on

1:02:15

the book. Okay. So

1:02:17

she's settling in, she starts making stuff of her

1:02:19

own, and she begins to establish herself in the

1:02:21

arts community in New York City, which was like

1:02:23

New York City in the 1970s. If you were

1:02:25

an artist, this was like the place to fucking

1:02:27

be. And there are great photos of her work,

1:02:30

again, on the drive, which will be on the

1:02:32

blog, but it's, it's

1:02:34

like kind of needs a trigger

1:02:37

warning. It's very intense. It's very

1:02:39

challenging. Ana's work centers literally in

1:02:41

both medium and subject around like

1:02:43

blood and violence, and the

1:02:45

blood and violence specifically like

1:02:47

done to women and women's bodies. Oh,

1:02:50

wow. Oh, these are

1:02:53

beautiful. They're pretty

1:02:55

fucking exquisite and powerful

1:02:58

pieces of art. They're really

1:03:00

really poignant. She does a lot of

1:03:02

photography. A lot

1:03:05

of like painting and collage. She

1:03:07

does some really cool stuff with florals.

1:03:10

I'm obsessed with her work. I don't

1:03:13

know that these are pieces

1:03:15

that incorporate herself, but it kind of

1:03:17

looks like it. But like artists

1:03:19

who have themselves as like

1:03:22

the subjects. Yeah,

1:03:24

that always is really different.

1:03:27

Mm hmm. Different. They're very cool. I

1:03:29

mean, there's one where it's multiple

1:03:31

panels of her face and she

1:03:34

just looks battered like

1:03:36

she's covered her face is covered in

1:03:38

like blood and bruises. Mm hmm. And

1:03:40

that's her. Mm hmm. It's really it's

1:03:42

shocking to look at, but it's quite

1:03:45

beautiful. Mm hmm. So, you

1:03:47

know, just if you're gonna look at the blog, like

1:03:49

just know that she's

1:03:52

intentionally creating

1:03:54

work that's like reflecting her

1:03:56

immersion in like Ritual

1:03:58

Spiritual Ism. Primitive. Etti

1:04:01

and Primal Expression and there are

1:04:03

depictions of like her using her

1:04:05

own and other women's bodies in

1:04:07

her work out for using a

1:04:09

lot of real like animal blood

1:04:11

and it was meant to be

1:04:13

very evocative and very confrontational. So

1:04:15

if you're not open to seeing

1:04:17

imagery like that she's probably not

1:04:19

the artists for you. But and

1:04:21

she did a lot of performance

1:04:23

art was will get to so

1:04:25

the subjects that she was tackling

1:04:27

word deeply personal. all most of

1:04:29

her work as autobiographical. And drawn from

1:04:31

her violent displayed distaste from Cuba. The

1:04:34

loss of her family, and focus

1:04:36

on like the cycles of life

1:04:38

and death of belonging of identity

1:04:41

violence, patriarchal violence, And. So

1:04:43

you know this. It gets like really intense.

1:04:45

Really. Quickly, deeply personal other

1:04:47

room. And. Like many artists

1:04:49

with a deeply personal message, she

1:04:51

was a hardcore activists, initiating projects

1:04:54

aimed at reconnecting displaced Cubans and

1:04:56

their relative, making safe spaces for

1:04:58

women and challenging the fuck. Out

1:05:00

of people that were viewing her art. And

1:05:02

it's a reminder like it is.

1:05:04

Powerful work and creatives are pivotal

1:05:07

to liberation work for like. Fucking

1:05:09

support our as in all exists as

1:05:11

a big. Part. Of

1:05:13

all of that so support the as a

1:05:15

like let's talk about the blood so. On

1:05:19

I assess as suck of.

1:05:21

The blood blood cells. He was

1:05:23

like What? that's been fun with

1:05:25

asthma and love of the husband.

1:05:28

Ana. Use a lot of blood in her

1:05:30

with. Mouth. The first big

1:05:32

use of it was in a work called Death

1:05:35

of a Chicken. And was one

1:05:37

of her performance leases. That's exactly what

1:05:39

it sounds like. Okay, she stood naked

1:05:41

in front of a white wall holding

1:05:43

a freshly decapitated sick and she didn't

1:05:45

like, I don't think putting that shook

1:05:47

his head off was part. Of

1:05:50

the actual peace. But it

1:05:52

was clear that. That. Had just happened

1:05:54

and it's but like it's body was

1:05:56

still moving like a second does and

1:05:58

it's splattered blood. all over her, all

1:06:00

over the wall. And

1:06:03

this is obviously controversial. It

1:06:06

gives me feelings of discomfort, like

1:06:08

as someone who obviously cares about animals.

1:06:10

I'm sure it does for many people

1:06:12

listening. But like, that's what

1:06:14

I'm saying. Like

1:06:17

that's the whole point of her work.

1:06:19

And so I wanted to dig deeper here

1:06:22

because part of what she's doing

1:06:26

is forcing us to go

1:06:28

deeper. Like if we're too hung up on how

1:06:30

we feel about an animal that most of us

1:06:32

eat every day being killed for art in the

1:06:35

same manner that they are killed to be eaten

1:06:37

by the millions without us batting an eye. But

1:06:39

like- Maybe more humanely. Right.

1:06:41

But like can't muster those same

1:06:44

feelings of outrage or discomfort for

1:06:46

the subject of her work, which

1:06:48

is like humans, especially women

1:06:50

being slaughtered around the world and

1:06:52

in our own backyards every day.

1:06:55

If we're getting hung up on like the

1:06:57

chicken, then that tells us that we

1:06:59

have deeper work to do. And this is like the

1:07:01

kind of provocative shit that art can stir

1:07:03

up in us if we're willing to dig

1:07:06

deeper that are just initial reactions. Like you

1:07:08

really have to sit with it. Thinking about

1:07:10

it, coming to your own conclusions and teaching

1:07:12

yourself that lesson. Why is this making

1:07:15

me so uncomfortable? Is it because I don't

1:07:17

wanna see harm done to an animal, but

1:07:19

that I'm stopping there and I'm not thinking

1:07:21

about the harm that's being done to

1:07:23

like my fellow humans? Then

1:07:26

I have to dig deeper about this. Another

1:07:28

notable work was her Moffat building piece in

1:07:30

1973, where she poured

1:07:32

cow blood and viscera on the sidewalk in

1:07:34

front of a downtown Iowa apartment building and

1:07:37

carefully documented the reactions of people

1:07:39

as they passed by in like

1:07:41

photograph. Oh, cool. So

1:07:44

she did a lot of, it was

1:07:46

a lot of immersive performance art. Yeah. Stuff

1:07:48

that she did a little bit later in

1:07:50

her career. Anna also made

1:07:52

work in response to tragedy in her local community.

1:07:55

So in 1973, Sarah Ann Ottens was a female

1:07:57

student. in

1:08:00

Iowa who was attacked in her rhino

1:08:02

hall room in Iowa City, I think

1:08:04

at the University of Iowa, which is

1:08:07

the same college that Anna

1:08:09

herself had graduated from. My sister graduated

1:08:11

from. There you go. Sarah

1:08:13

was assaulted and suffocated to

1:08:16

death in her own dorm room. And

1:08:18

after the attack, Anna created a

1:08:20

piece as a reaction entitled, Rape

1:08:22

Scene. In the performance, Mendieta invited

1:08:24

friends and other students to visit

1:08:27

her in her Moffitt Street apartment,

1:08:29

but when they arrived, they found

1:08:31

Mendieta's apartment door ajar. Upon

1:08:33

entering the apartment, viewers were confronted with

1:08:35

the image of Mendieta, naked from the

1:08:37

waist down, smeared with blood, bent over

1:08:40

and bound to a table with broken

1:08:42

objects and bloodied clothes scattered about her,

1:08:44

recreating the look of an attack. Mendieta

1:08:46

remained in that position for over an

1:08:49

hour, after which her observer sat

1:08:51

down and talked about the work. Mendieta

1:08:53

recalls that after encountering her body,

1:08:56

her audience, all sat down

1:08:58

and started talking about it. I didn't

1:09:00

move. I stayed in position for about

1:09:02

an hour. It really jolted them. Now

1:09:05

it's unclear to me how much warning

1:09:07

her friends and audience were

1:09:09

given with their invite to

1:09:11

come over. I assume enough that

1:09:14

they almost immediately recognize this as an

1:09:16

art installation. Either they just know her

1:09:18

well enough to be like, okay, Anna, this

1:09:21

is art fairly quickly.

1:09:23

Because otherwise, if your friends come

1:09:25

over and see this and don't immediately call

1:09:27

911, then your friends are kind of shitty

1:09:30

if they didn't know that it was art. Yeah,

1:09:32

it was so I think there must

1:09:35

have been some indications if it wasn't

1:09:37

like an outright trigger warning, which is

1:09:39

I feel like a pretty like a

1:09:41

modern. Yeah, I'm choosing to

1:09:44

believe that in the invitation, it was

1:09:46

like, come over and see my new

1:09:49

work, like come see my new art

1:09:51

installation. It's at my house. And they

1:09:53

came over and this was it. And

1:09:55

or she just gave that invitation

1:09:57

to people who kind of knew what to do.

1:10:00

know about yeah yeah because

1:10:02

that I mean otherwise that could start

1:10:04

panic but I'm sure there was some thing

1:10:07

in place there yeah but that case by the

1:10:09

way the Sarah and Auden's case is so

1:10:11

fucking infuriating like they found who did it

1:10:13

it was a another student

1:10:15

who was arrested he was tried and he

1:10:17

was convicted with like DNA

1:10:20

and fingerprint evidence but

1:10:22

he later successfully appealed and

1:10:24

released because there was prosecutorial

1:10:26

misconduct like prosecution knowingly

1:10:29

withheld evidence for some reason and

1:10:32

so he got out on a loophole

1:10:34

he was later re-arrested and convicted but

1:10:36

only because while he was out on

1:10:39

a loophole he strangled to death another

1:10:41

woman named Susan Hayjak years later cool

1:10:44

so she said because of

1:10:46

these fuckers fuck yeah oh

1:10:49

because the justice system fucked up

1:10:51

and put an actually violent criminal

1:10:53

back out on the street who killed another

1:10:55

woman and got arrested again

1:10:57

and this just puts more importance on

1:11:00

this woman's work like wow

1:11:04

fucking wow so that

1:11:06

in a nutshell is the kind of work

1:11:09

she did very confrontational emotional evocative

1:11:11

work it's rooted in feminism

1:11:13

and like this is not

1:11:15

the first time I have said it it won't

1:11:17

be the last like if only she

1:11:19

was gay and I don't say this

1:11:21

because I'm attracted to her I say

1:11:24

this because she would like many of

1:11:26

us be better off having never met

1:11:28

a man a man

1:11:32

ruined her fucking life don't let the men have

1:11:35

any access to her no

1:11:39

oh enter this

1:11:41

motherfucker through mutual friends

1:11:43

at air gallery in New York City

1:11:45

she met Carl Andre at a

1:11:47

solo show of her photographs always one

1:11:49

of Anna's galleries in 1979 Carl was a big name and

1:11:54

minimalist sculpture at the time and

1:11:56

also just like a super gross

1:11:59

creepy looking And

1:12:01

if you will direct your attention to pile

1:12:03

of bricks and wooden blocks about waist high

1:12:05

on the drive slash blog You'll see exactly

1:12:07

what the fuck I mean like

1:12:09

look at this guy and then look

1:12:11

at Anna No, no

1:12:13

donning icon. Oh Fucking

1:12:17

guy. Oh my gut wrenches

1:12:19

just for that Yeah,

1:12:23

that disparity. It's not

1:12:25

great and I'm assuming I'm assuming

1:12:27

he's a terrible trash human being

1:12:30

Yeah, yes, he is we're allowed to hate him and

1:12:32

his What creepy

1:12:35

scraggly hair? I immediately hate

1:12:37

him. I hate his Ricky

1:12:39

blocks that he calls It's

1:12:44

not Revelatory we're about to

1:12:46

get really deep into the bricks cuz

1:12:48

I went I went the fuck off

1:12:50

It's not making any political statements with

1:12:52

like cows blood. It gets so much

1:12:54

worse So he was 13 years her

1:12:56

senior But despite the age gap they

1:12:58

began dating and almost immediately their

1:13:00

relationship was a shit show like

1:13:02

just Real bad. So

1:13:05

this is a summary put together

1:13:07

from friends statements in The Guardian

1:13:09

said quote their relationship intrigued Some

1:13:11

of their friends and baffled others.

1:13:13

She was feisty and opinionated small and

1:13:16

sexy He came across as

1:13:18

cold and detached his towering presence

1:13:20

as formidable as his intellectual aloofness

1:13:22

Which just just fancy speak for

1:13:24

he was a fucking ass. Yeah, and

1:13:27

he needed a fucking haircut and a shower Quote

1:13:30

Carl and Anna were very different personalities And

1:13:33

that is what attracted them to each other

1:13:35

says the Argentinian artist Liliana Porter a

1:13:37

friend of Mende Carl was

1:13:39

very methodical in his daily life following

1:13:41

routines and Anna was the opposite He

1:13:44

liked her strong personality her looks and her

1:13:46

intensity and she enjoyed his company and in

1:13:49

some way needed a more mature and

1:13:51

steady Point of reference creatively

1:13:53

though their art practices could not

1:13:55

have been further apart hers was

1:13:57

wide-ranging elemental and ritualistic

1:14:00

He was a minimalist whose work

1:14:02

was refined and cerebral, I guess

1:14:04

you could describe it as. Again, maybe I

1:14:07

just don't get art, but there's like nothing

1:14:09

cerebral about the pile of bricks. Yeah, there

1:14:11

are many words for specific

1:14:14

things. That's his most, so

1:14:16

this is his most famous work is that arrangement

1:14:19

of 120 bricks. And

1:14:22

he did arrange this at the Tate in Britain.

1:14:25

And like, again, about these fucking bricks,

1:14:27

I will never get over it. When

1:14:29

he sold this piece, it arrived

1:14:31

at the buyer's house as

1:14:34

a pile of bricks with

1:14:37

like IKEA instructions on how

1:14:39

to put them together into

1:14:41

a rectangle. Can

1:14:45

you imagine as the buyer opening that and

1:14:47

being like, what's the actual Fox fingers bricks?

1:14:51

I have to put them together

1:14:53

myself. Like bricks into the wood

1:14:55

blocks. The bricks. Those white

1:14:57

things? Yes, just that white

1:14:59

rectangle of bricks was sent as like a

1:15:01

jumbled bag of bricks. What

1:15:04

a fucking ass. We're arguably the only

1:15:06

transformative aspect of the work itself is

1:15:08

that the artists arranged the bricks in

1:15:11

a specific way. And now

1:15:13

they just send it to you in a bag

1:15:15

and you have to put them together. And the

1:15:17

buyer was like, what the fuck? So

1:15:20

they sent the bricks back, but the

1:15:23

bricks got damaged and had

1:15:25

to be replaced with more

1:15:27

bricks. I'll

1:15:30

never get over these stupid fucking bricks. I hate these fucking

1:15:32

bricks. If I never see a

1:15:34

fucking brick again, it'll be too goddamn soon. I'm

1:15:37

sorry, but also this portrait of him.

1:15:39

Oh, all right. I'm

1:15:41

not hairline shaming, but I am

1:15:44

because he's a bad

1:15:46

person. He's a bad person. And there does come a point

1:15:48

where it's like, honey, just let it go. You

1:15:51

don't need the little wispies in the

1:15:53

front and then a huge gap and

1:15:55

then your back scraggly ring of long

1:15:57

hair. And I mean, the beard don't

1:15:59

have. long hair if

1:16:01

you're completely bald on top.

1:16:04

He looks like Charles Manson

1:16:06

but like worse somehow.

1:16:08

Way worse. Charles

1:16:11

Manson after several years of

1:16:13

prison. He has those like

1:16:15

kind of dead eyes. Yeah.

1:16:17

It's not... He's looking like

1:16:19

he's... he thinks he's

1:16:21

better than you. No matter who you

1:16:23

are. There's no warmth or like humanity

1:16:25

in him at all when I look at him. He freaks me

1:16:27

the fuck out. He's a dick. So it

1:16:29

is one of the ironies of her early

1:16:31

death, on his early death, that her star

1:16:34

was in the ascendancy as

1:16:38

he was entering a period in which

1:16:40

like demand for his work was falling

1:16:42

down super hard and

1:16:44

the prices of his work were

1:16:47

plummeting. Weird. Yeah. So

1:16:50

like oftentimes when they were a

1:16:52

little drunk because they were drinkers

1:16:54

together she would kind of

1:16:56

taunt him about this once saying quote you

1:16:58

know Carl minimalism is over you already

1:17:00

did your thing. Well...

1:17:06

I love it. But

1:17:08

unfortunately... The shade. Yeah the

1:17:10

shade was real but he would

1:17:12

respond in kind. Quote

1:17:15

they drank a lot remembers artist Ted

1:17:17

Victoria. They would arrive around here for

1:17:20

dinner with four or five bottles of

1:17:22

champagne. There were arguments mostly started by

1:17:24

Anna. She was combative. She could

1:17:26

bring out stuff that would really piss you off.

1:17:28

That was just how she was when she was

1:17:31

drunk. She had a lot of attitude. Anna did

1:17:33

a residency in Rome for two years while they

1:17:35

were together and they did get some much-needed distance

1:17:37

from one another. She was in Rome and I

1:17:39

think he was in Berlin but

1:17:41

apparently absence did make the heart grow fonder

1:17:43

because they reunited in 1985 and

1:17:46

got married in a small ceremony in

1:17:48

Rome. Yep. And then returned

1:17:50

to New York moving into Carl's 34th floor

1:17:53

apartment at 300 Mercer Street.

1:17:55

She was reportedly not

1:17:57

pumped about moving into this apartment because it

1:17:59

was... up so high and she

1:18:01

was terrified of heights. Oh,

1:18:04

honey. But she moved into the

1:18:06

place anyway, because like these are the

1:18:08

things we do for love. Yeah. So

1:18:11

once they were reunited and married

1:18:13

their relationship went right back to

1:18:15

being tempestuous. And she was complaining

1:18:17

about him enough to her friends

1:18:19

and family that they were becoming increasingly

1:18:21

concerned about her safety. She started drinking

1:18:23

more and more heavily. The two were

1:18:26

fighting constantly. So then that like

1:18:28

it was a cycle she would drink more. It was

1:18:30

a huge fucking mess. It was a disaster and

1:18:32

it was going nowhere good, real fast.

1:18:36

At the time that she confided confided in

1:18:38

a friend of hers, that she had suspicions

1:18:40

of that Carl had cheated on her while

1:18:42

she was in Rome, and he was in

1:18:45

Berlin. And later she would allege that

1:18:47

she discovered not one but two different

1:18:49

mistresses and started collecting evidence and documentation

1:18:51

of the affairs to use

1:18:53

to like bolster her case in

1:18:55

a divorce because she wanted to

1:18:57

divorce him. But he didn't know that she knew this.

1:19:00

And he didn't know that she wanted to get a divorce. Can

1:19:02

I just say that I love

1:19:05

when like a

1:19:07

jilted leopard starts documenting. Create

1:19:11

a folder. There's nothing

1:19:13

better. There's nothing better. Get

1:19:15

those receipts, baby and get the fuck

1:19:17

out. Build your

1:19:20

case, get that money and get

1:19:22

the fuck out. So Anna apparently

1:19:24

made getaway plans and was readying

1:19:27

herself to move into her own place, which

1:19:29

was on the second floor of a different

1:19:31

apartment, different building. Just remember that for your

1:19:33

rights. We also don't want the first

1:19:36

floor. First floor is too close. Too close.

1:19:38

She's looking at a second floor walk

1:19:40

up on Sixth Avenue. Beautiful. I know,

1:19:42

right? Super cute. Cut to September 8,

1:19:45

1985. Anna talks with a lawyer friend

1:19:47

of hers who advised her to

1:19:49

confront Carl about the affairs and

1:19:52

end the marriage. Sort of

1:19:54

like maybe you can come to a resolution without having to

1:19:56

go to trial situation. Be like, Listen, I know you

1:19:58

cheated. I just want to get an divorce. I want

1:20:00

to get the fuck out of here. Let's go but

1:20:03

less ugly She tells

1:20:05

the lawyer friend that she's too scared to

1:20:07

confront him because he is a vengeful person

1:20:09

and has a huge temper So Anna and

1:20:12

Carl are at home like a

1:20:14

few days after this conversation. I guess They

1:20:17

order Chinese food. They start drinking wine, you

1:20:19

know, the wine Chinese food go together

1:20:21

like Fucking wine and

1:20:23

cry. Let me tell you After

1:20:25

getting into their like evening

1:20:27

drinking She Anna calls

1:20:29

a friend named Natalia Delgado and

1:20:32

tells her about her plans to divorce Carl But

1:20:34

she does it entirely in Spanish

1:20:36

that like Carl doesn't understand what she's

1:20:38

saying having

1:20:41

like a Lively

1:20:44

Spanish conversation on the phone at

1:20:46

a certain point you can bow Or

1:20:48

thing are right in front of him Stupid

1:20:52

ass in their one

1:20:54

bedroom, New York apartment telling her

1:20:56

about everything which I fucking am

1:20:58

obsessed with She's talking about the

1:21:00

mistress. She's talking about how they're fighting. She

1:21:02

talked about how she had collected phone Transcripts

1:21:04

of Carl talking to other women. Oh, but

1:21:06

he was ready to fucking roll on him

1:21:09

She was going to take his ass down

1:21:11

in court But sometime

1:21:13

after this phone call Carl

1:21:15

and Anna started to argue so loudly

1:21:17

that the neighbors could hear their entire

1:21:19

conversation through the walls and

1:21:21

said the fight escalated More intensely than anything

1:21:23

that they had heard before because they'd heard

1:21:25

these two yelling at each other before it just hadn't

1:21:27

been this bad He could probably Get

1:21:30

the gist of what she was saying in Spanish.

1:21:33

I'm sure he could Mmm, the

1:21:35

blow-by-blow from the neighbors was that they

1:21:37

drank a ton of wine. They watched

1:21:40

TV They fought they started

1:21:42

like flipping furniture like they could

1:21:44

hear Everything it was

1:21:46

metal and that it went on Through

1:21:49

the night until about 5 30 in the

1:21:51

morning and that things got quiet down on

1:21:53

the street below the night

1:21:56

of this fight The doorman hears something

1:21:58

weird. He hears a woman Yelling

1:22:00

no no lo. And

1:22:03

then seconds later he

1:22:05

hears a loud thud.

1:22:07

Know we're know where.

1:22:09

Yup, No. No No No

1:22:11

No No No No No. No

1:22:16

bad or more than that

1:22:19

size. she's afraid of heights.

1:22:21

Ah he, ah oh no.

1:22:24

Or on. Mendieta had plummeted

1:22:26

thirty three stories. Onto the roof

1:22:28

of a deli and the first floor of the building.

1:22:32

Work on the awning. And. Some

1:22:35

sources claim that a nine, one, one.

1:22:37

Call from Coral came in nearly immediately after

1:22:40

the fall. like around four or five eight

1:22:42

five thirty in the morning. By.

1:22:44

He would later say he only noticed she was

1:22:46

gone when he went to bed and then when

1:22:48

he got on the phone with an Ira one

1:22:50

operator he said it called my wife is an

1:22:52

artist, I'm an artist and we had a quarrel

1:22:55

about the fact that I was more exposed to

1:22:57

the public than see was. And she went

1:22:59

to the bedroom. And I went after her and she

1:23:01

went out the window so is already telling. Different stories.

1:23:03

he one hand out the window. Which.

1:23:06

Will get to it. Oh. My. God.

1:23:09

When. The police arrived, They noted that Turrell

1:23:11

has scratches on his nose and arms

1:23:13

deep enough to draw blood. The question

1:23:15

was like were those sustained in their

1:23:17

fight or in like a struggle at

1:23:19

the window. He had a mosquito bite,

1:23:21

he was se. Wow. That's

1:23:24

actually a better. Excuse the

1:23:26

the one he tried to give. Sees that

1:23:28

as a thought that the scratches

1:23:30

were from a gust of wind

1:23:32

blow your door close in his

1:23:34

face a week ago. Before.

1:23:36

His wife died. Even though they were

1:23:38

like fresh when the cops got their

1:23:41

you're actively bleeding you fucking idiot media,

1:23:43

it's giving the same vibe as the

1:23:45

guy in that cruise ship case. He

1:23:47

said. His wife was blown overboard by

1:23:49

is also. Hi

1:23:52

oh I see a guy

1:23:54

is my why I. Like.

1:23:59

You. Do. No one's fucking

1:24:01

buying it. Have had more than

1:24:03

five seconds to come up with

1:24:05

a story, an alibi, anything. This

1:24:08

is this is the best you can

1:24:10

do. Also, you're a creative, you're an

1:24:12

artist. What the fuck? You know what?

1:24:14

Arguable minimal is just pile of

1:24:17

fucking bricks that sent in a

1:24:19

bag. Well, minimal effort went

1:24:21

into that fucking story. I

1:24:23

hate him. Idiot. So on

1:24:26

the scene and granted, he was drunk and

1:24:28

probably a little traumatized, but like we're

1:24:30

not giving him any fucking. No, none.

1:24:33

Like room here. The police

1:24:35

asked him to recount events and he said

1:24:37

that they fought and that after that, they

1:24:39

watched a movie and she wanted to go to bed and wanted

1:24:41

him to go with her, but he didn't want to go. And

1:24:44

then I guess he said to the police, well, if

1:24:46

that's what she wanted, then maybe I did kill her

1:24:49

then. What? Yeah, he's just

1:24:51

like rambling, drunk, fucking. And

1:24:53

police requesting the timing of the 911

1:24:56

call, basically saying like, well, you

1:24:58

should have called around 4 a.m. instead

1:25:00

of 5 30 in the morning, because like

1:25:03

that's when she

1:25:05

went out the window, I guess, where

1:25:08

out the window. Yeah, they're they're

1:25:10

speculating. But like I also couldn't find a good

1:25:12

source on the time of death. One

1:25:14

source suggested she fell around for another

1:25:17

said like she died around 5 30. And

1:25:20

the 5 30 timing could just be based on the

1:25:22

911 call alone. I don't know. But

1:25:24

I think she I'm leaning toward 4 a.m.

1:25:27

and that he waited to call. It's

1:25:29

kind of weird to me that she

1:25:31

would have plummeted 33 stories and

1:25:34

landed on a deli roof

1:25:37

thing and no one else

1:25:39

would have called. I think there were multiple

1:25:41

911 calls. It's just specifically

1:25:43

where they were focusing on when he

1:25:46

called the police, given that he

1:25:48

was in the building in the apartment after she

1:25:50

went through the window. They're like, well, why the fuck didn't

1:25:52

you call the police at 4? Why did you wait to

1:25:55

call us until 5 30 when like police

1:25:57

are already on their way? But there was an

1:25:59

established. Like other people called

1:26:01

the cops. That's when she definitely fell

1:26:03

out the window I think it was

1:26:05

so late at night that the only

1:26:07

person who even like saw this saw

1:26:09

her or heard her scream And then

1:26:11

heard the crash was the doorman who

1:26:13

wasn't necessarily standing outside So

1:26:16

he also may not have like gone out and investigated

1:26:18

right away. You know, it's fucking

1:26:20

New York. It's four in the morning Yeah,

1:26:23

oh my god. There is there's

1:26:25

plausible deniability to me around Around

1:26:28

how many 911 calls

1:26:30

would have come in at that time of

1:26:32

night. What like year was this again?

1:26:35

Seven eighty-five eighty-five. Okay,

1:26:38

so it's like there's like see some cell

1:26:40

phones and all that probably not there My

1:26:42

there was probably some CCTV, but that didn't

1:26:44

come up anywhere. Not as ubiquitous

1:26:48

Yep, as you would expect now. Yeah, okay But

1:26:51

then so like there's all this weird

1:26:53

back and forth about the 911 call and then

1:26:55

he says he doesn't he didn't notice She was

1:26:57

missing until he went to bed and then when

1:26:59

he was confronted about how

1:27:01

his statements don't make sense And

1:27:04

like this isn't looking good for you, dude, then

1:27:06

he starts like backtracking. So he's just all over

1:27:08

the place police observed

1:27:10

the scene finding evidence of heavy drinking

1:27:12

and also noted that the window was

1:27:14

very high up and It

1:27:16

seemed unlikely that Anna would have even been able

1:27:18

to get through it on her own without a

1:27:20

chair Like she's like a little at

1:27:22

least you're sitting up. Oh Hmm

1:27:25

at the scene Carl kept talking

1:27:28

about how jealous Anna was of his success

1:27:30

and fame and noted that he made calls

1:27:32

to cancel Upcoming dinner plans but made no

1:27:34

efforts to contact on his family. Let

1:27:37

them know that she had died like this guy

1:27:39

is a nightmare While

1:27:42

the police were still present on the scene

1:27:44

and Natalia Delgado on his friend Who she

1:27:46

had been on the phone with in Spanish

1:27:48

earlier in the evening Got worried and called

1:27:50

her back to check up on her and

1:27:52

allegedly Carl picked up the phone and told

1:27:54

Natalia that Anna couldn't come To the phone,

1:27:57

but he'd tell her that she called while

1:28:00

All the police are there investigating the scene of his

1:28:02

wife's death. I'll let her know you called. I

1:28:04

know all this is like circumstantial but...

1:28:07

But it's not looking good babe. No. Oh

1:28:11

no. And this next bit is not

1:28:13

well corroborated but like we could take

1:28:15

it with a pinch of salt and also like fuck Carl so

1:28:17

whatever. Natalia called back later after

1:28:19

Carl had been placed under arrest and

1:28:22

was being questioned about this and was

1:28:24

surprised when Carl's lawyer answered the

1:28:26

phone at their apartment and

1:28:29

there were accusations that this phone call

1:28:31

could have happened after the scene had

1:28:33

been sealed and that Carl had sent

1:28:35

his lawyers to the apartment to destroy

1:28:37

evidence namely the materials that Anna had

1:28:40

been collecting to use against him in

1:28:42

the divorce because those were... Like

1:28:44

he called those lawyers like before the cops.

1:28:47

Yep and a lot of that stuff that she

1:28:49

claimed to have been putting together has never been

1:28:51

found and wasn't

1:28:53

included at trial because they never found it. Oh

1:28:55

my god. That's like the

1:28:58

OJ Simpson briefcase thing. Yep.

1:29:01

That's funny that you mentioned OJ Simpson because we'll kind

1:29:03

of get to that too. Oh. Well

1:29:06

there's a brief mention but the

1:29:09

process and investigation of this crime

1:29:11

took two years. Carl

1:29:13

was indicted three times before finally going to

1:29:15

trial and Carl was charged with second degree

1:29:17

murder and spent a very uncomfortable night in

1:29:19

Rikers Island before his art dealers

1:29:21

and artists... Oh one very uncomfortable night. One

1:29:23

night and then his art dealer and artist friends put together

1:29:26

his $250,000 bail and he

1:29:28

was able to await the rest of his

1:29:30

trial comfortably at home which

1:29:33

should be an innate fucking right for

1:29:35

nonviolent criminals. But not this

1:29:37

guy. He got out because

1:29:39

he's connected to money even after he

1:29:42

fucking threw his wife out a window so

1:29:44

fuck me there are people still in Rikers

1:29:46

awaiting trial for marijuana

1:29:48

offenses. A stolen backpack

1:29:50

maybe? Yep but this fucking

1:29:53

guy got to go home. Anyway

1:29:56

I'll never not be mad. So

1:29:59

Carl made the very unusual move of requesting a

1:30:01

bench trial, which means he waived his right

1:30:03

to a jury and would be tried by

1:30:05

a judge alone. And after waiting all of

1:30:07

this time for justice, the like, feminist

1:30:10

artist community was fucking livid because

1:30:12

not only had it taken years

1:30:15

for them to even get to trial, now

1:30:17

not a single woman would

1:30:19

be part of the process of judging Carl. So

1:30:22

the judge was a man? The decision

1:30:24

would be made by a single, skeptical

1:30:26

white man. Oh! In a

1:30:28

room full of men, he was represented by men. The state

1:30:31

prosecution was men. Judged

1:30:34

by a man. Judged by a man.

1:30:36

I don't even want to know how

1:30:38

the, I mean, I need to know,

1:30:41

but also just like looking back at her

1:30:43

artwork, I'm looking in your folder, which will

1:30:45

be on the blog, all of

1:30:47

the stuff about violence against women. And

1:30:50

then she was thrown out a window. I'm fearful

1:30:52

for how this case ends because,

1:30:55

I mean, even if it doesn't

1:30:57

end the way that I'm afraid that it does, it

1:30:59

does. Yep.

1:31:02

She's dead. It already

1:31:04

ended. Yep. And also don't

1:31:06

worry, the way that you're fearful it ends is

1:31:09

also spot on. Okay, great. Yep.

1:31:11

This man with his jenga fucking

1:31:13

bricks. And his shitty hairline and

1:31:16

his fucked up beard. Yeah, fuck this guy.

1:31:19

So the defense strategy was fucking

1:31:21

disgusting. It relied heavily on overt

1:31:23

racism and misogyny, deflecting from Carl's

1:31:25

conflicting and suspicious statements. And it

1:31:27

focused on painting Anna as a

1:31:30

wild drunk with like a feisty

1:31:32

Latina temper. Oh,

1:31:35

yeah, the Latina temper.

1:31:38

Mm hmm. They focus on Anna's high blood

1:31:40

alcohol content at the time of her death,

1:31:42

essentially stating that she was so wasted and

1:31:44

emotionally out of control that in a fit

1:31:46

of rage and emotion, she threw herself to

1:31:48

her death. And this is why women can't

1:31:50

be president. But

1:31:52

her emails. But

1:31:54

Anna's emails. Yeah. So

1:31:57

Carl's defense claimed her use of blood and

1:32:00

soil and flowers was a sign of

1:32:02

a subconscious desire to kill herself. They

1:32:05

held up images of her covered in

1:32:07

dirt and blood and mud as apparent

1:32:09

dry runs for her suicide. They brought

1:32:11

her artwork into this? Yup.

1:32:14

Oh my god. They also

1:32:17

used her interest in occultism, ritual,

1:32:19

and centoria as a boogeyman, proving

1:32:21

her unstable, unwell mental state. Ohhhhh.

1:32:25

They relied heavily on Mendieta's

1:32:27

interest in indigenous occult practices

1:32:29

and beliefs like centoria which

1:32:31

is very much like an

1:32:33

Afro-Latino polytheistic religion, you

1:32:35

know, not what the white

1:32:37

Christian Anglo-Saxon public

1:32:41

in the West is used to. Take a

1:32:43

beat to try to

1:32:45

understand what it's actually founded on.

1:32:48

Nope. It's not like

1:32:50

scary witchy creepy shit. It's

1:32:54

cultural practice that includes like

1:32:57

rituals that honor the dead but

1:32:59

like almost every religious practice

1:33:01

has rituals on that. But

1:33:03

they insisted that an interest in such

1:33:06

matters meant Mendieta was mentally unstable and

1:33:08

even suggested that she could have killed

1:33:10

herself as part of a centoria ritual,

1:33:13

some like satanic panic move. Bullshit.

1:33:16

Oh my god. They spent

1:33:18

extensive time painting her as a

1:33:20

quote crazy Cuban bringing in art

1:33:22

experts and curators to claim that

1:33:24

her work showed quote a ritualistic

1:33:26

death wish. No. Don't

1:33:29

use her art against- no, I

1:33:31

can't. The

1:33:33

art she made to call out like

1:33:35

exactly what's happening here was

1:33:38

being used to enact these

1:33:40

atrocities against her in

1:33:42

terms of her ever seeing justice. If

1:33:45

ever there was a case for haunting. Seriously,

1:33:48

haunt the- well, we'll

1:33:50

get to it. But okay. After

1:33:52

the doorman testified that he had indeed

1:33:55

heard that no no no from above

1:33:57

him before the fall, the defenseless- for

1:34:00

Carl, then accused him of

1:34:02

a history of mental health issues to

1:34:05

discredit him. The doorman. Yeah,

1:34:07

they're gaslighting the doorman, who has like nothing

1:34:09

to do with anything. He just is

1:34:12

an important witness to corroborate that he heard

1:34:14

that sound. In summation, Carl's lawyer said, quote,

1:34:16

she went to the window to open it.

1:34:18

She got up on that sill to open

1:34:20

it. She slammed the window open with both

1:34:22

hands, her body swiveling, and she lost her

1:34:24

balance. She hurled out of the window accidentally,

1:34:27

laying the groundwork for the whole thing to

1:34:29

be an accident in case the self-defenestration

1:34:31

for purposes of blood magic,

1:34:33

witchcraft, or racism didn't work.

1:34:36

It's like, if those

1:34:38

approaches didn't work, she

1:34:40

was just a drunk, crazy lady who

1:34:42

fell out a window. This is

1:34:45

on her. Yeah, if it wasn't

1:34:47

a spell, it was

1:34:50

an accident. She was hysterical.

1:34:52

So the

1:34:55

prosecution stuck to the facts. Like

1:34:57

the window was too fucking high for her. She's only

1:34:59

like 4'10", 4'11". It would have been super awkward

1:35:03

for an intoxicated woman to try to

1:35:05

kill herself and similarly like get, climb

1:35:07

up there drunk is hard anyway, but like

1:35:09

the window sill was like at her shoulder

1:35:12

level. So how the fuck is she climbing

1:35:14

up there? There was no chair by the

1:35:16

window. Body strength. He does. There you go.

1:35:19

Ana's friends hammered home over and over again

1:35:22

her fear of heights and that her willingly

1:35:24

climbing up on a window sill was absurd.

1:35:26

They didn't believe for one second that were

1:35:28

Ana to make the devastating choice to end

1:35:31

her life that she would have done it

1:35:33

like this. She would have been too scared. She

1:35:35

would have found a way more creative way to do that.

1:35:37

Yes, she would have made an art. The

1:35:40

prosecution remained focused on the There's

1:35:43

opportunity. They were alone in the apartment.

1:35:46

There were signs of them fighting. There

1:35:48

were means. Their size difference meant he

1:35:50

could have easily overpowered her and lifted her

1:35:52

up and out of the window. There was motive.

1:35:54

The upcoming divorce which she

1:35:56

was well prepared for and would have

1:35:58

completely liked it. steamrolled

1:36:01

him and could have financially devastated him

1:36:03

because he cheated. However,

1:36:06

no evidence that he knew of the upcoming

1:36:08

divorce was allowed by the judge to be

1:36:10

admitted into this trial and none of the

1:36:12

materials that Anna was gathering

1:36:14

were ever able to be found. Because

1:36:16

a fucking lawyer took him away. Yep,

1:36:19

I fully believe that. I fully believe

1:36:21

that Carl sent his lawyer to scrub

1:36:23

that apartment. Of course. Because

1:36:25

that really does remove like pretty much

1:36:27

the only solid motive in this case. And

1:36:30

without motive it is hard to convict. Oh

1:36:33

Jesus. Carl's ex-wives, of which there

1:36:35

were several, despite speaking about abusive

1:36:37

behavior from him in the past,

1:36:39

refused to testify against him at

1:36:41

trial. And frankly I don't blame

1:36:43

them because fear is a powerful motivator to

1:36:45

stay silent. They were too scared. Yeah, you

1:36:47

just say to stay where you are. Yep.

1:36:50

Honest friends and family were in strong

1:36:52

attendance but to protect, you

1:36:54

know, his own ego or to just

1:36:56

gatekeep information, Carl insisted that his

1:36:59

own supporters not attend the trial. Probably because he

1:37:01

thought he wouldn't come out smelling like a rose.

1:37:04

In February of 1988, Carl

1:37:06

was acquitted, sparking an uproar

1:37:09

in the feminist art world

1:37:11

and remains a massively controversial

1:37:13

ruling. This was definitely

1:37:15

a flashpoint of like gender and

1:37:17

race politics in the justice system

1:37:19

and has often been compared to

1:37:21

the OJ trial in its explosiveness. There

1:37:24

we go. I am

1:37:26

infuriated. It's so fucked up.

1:37:28

It is shocking. I mean,

1:37:30

especially looking at her artwork,

1:37:32

like looking at her pieces.

1:37:34

Yeah. And looking at his. Yeah.

1:37:38

This was her worst nightmare that

1:37:40

she created so much provocative

1:37:42

art around like come to life in

1:37:45

her own intimate relationship. This is

1:37:48

it speaks a lot to victimhood

1:37:52

and who can be a victim

1:37:54

and someone who's gone through all of

1:37:56

this, who sees it, who sees it exactly

1:37:58

the way that it is. is

1:38:03

chucked out a fucking window. And

1:38:05

her fear is heights. Yeah, there's

1:38:07

no fucking way. I shouldn't jump out of a fucking window. Well,

1:38:09

I mean, just the whole thing is just like so, I

1:38:12

don't think poetic is the right

1:38:14

word. It's so ironic. It's so

1:38:16

heartbreaking. It's so heartbreaking. And it

1:38:18

definitely is one of those cases

1:38:20

that highlights the problematic

1:38:24

approach of like needing to be

1:38:26

the perfect victim. Yes. Because

1:38:28

like, Otto wasn't perfect. We're

1:38:30

not fucking perfect. It doesn't

1:38:33

mean that we deserve to be thrown

1:38:35

out of a fucking window and for our assailant

1:38:37

to be acquitted because you

1:38:39

question some of our behaviors.

1:38:42

Like there's no justice in that. This

1:38:44

is one of the worst cases that

1:38:46

I... Yeah. Yeah.

1:38:49

It's bad. It's bad. Karl's case records were

1:38:51

sealed after his acquittal due to New

1:38:53

York law. And it is unclear

1:38:55

if they will

1:38:58

be unsealed because he just

1:39:00

died like a month ago.

1:39:03

Ah! And so possibly

1:39:05

following his death, some of this information

1:39:07

could be unsealed, but we don't know yet. Oh

1:39:10

my God. Yup. So

1:39:12

fuck you, Karl. Bye.

1:39:16

Protest under the slogan, where is

1:39:18

Ana Mendieta elevated her work and

1:39:20

stalled Karl's further rise within the artistic

1:39:23

circles. Like his goose was cooked after

1:39:25

this. His jenga blocks were

1:39:27

cooked. His jenga blocks were cooked. They're

1:39:29

not good. They're not

1:39:31

fucking good. They don't say anything. Anything.

1:39:34

Boo! Boring and bland and

1:39:36

stupid, just like your fucking head.

1:39:38

Yeah, fuck you, Karl. Fuck

1:39:40

him. He'll be rotten piss. He

1:39:44

is definitely rotting and piss. 25

1:39:46

years later, Karl forwarded a new theory

1:39:48

about Ana's death stating that she was

1:39:51

closing the window due to a sudden

1:39:53

drop in temperature, and she fell. But

1:39:56

According to cataloged, meteorological data,

1:39:58

this temperature dropped. Prove he

1:40:00

fucking idiot it's a drop. Didn't

1:40:02

have her like forensic. Fucking Media

1:40:05

of meteorology. They it's. It

1:40:07

that didn't fucking that. I love our

1:40:09

forensic meteorology episode though. I do

1:40:11

too. Despite. Carl being a piece

1:40:13

of shit, his art. Continue. To

1:40:15

be shown in major museums. It

1:40:18

was included in the Venice Biennale

1:40:20

A and Toy Thirteen. There was

1:40:22

another like retrospective Art Foundation Toy

1:40:24

Fourteen that showed it. And.

1:40:26

That that? Venice? So. Cases

1:40:28

one the world's biggest art exhibitions and he

1:40:31

was still fuck in in it. Said.

1:40:33

Great. That why as of as

1:40:35

of literally right now and twenty twenty

1:40:38

four on a Monday at the has

1:40:40

received no such honors for her incredible

1:40:42

work. And over a decade later the

1:40:44

judge that acquitted him pull the journalists

1:40:47

of the verdict was in part due

1:40:49

to the limits of allowable evidence and

1:40:51

quote administrative bungling by the district attorney

1:40:54

and the police and that he thought

1:40:56

Carl Quote probably did it. oh they

1:40:58

would you say Maya. Oh.

1:41:01

My. God. I. Know.

1:41:05

I know, I know.

1:41:08

no. justice, None. None.

1:41:11

So. Yeah, that's. That's.

1:41:13

The case I I wanted to end this with that

1:41:15

note that I mention of the Top from our fan

1:41:18

picker Matisse, Who. Said

1:41:20

that like one of their

1:41:22

professors and art school. One

1:41:24

of their art history professors

1:41:26

said this about. Parole and Matty

1:41:28

says this is paraphrase But here

1:41:31

we go: Quotes: Even. Though Coral

1:41:33

encourages you to step and walk over

1:41:35

his artwork because that. Is the whole

1:41:37

concept of it's you should do it not

1:41:39

to please him, but because. He is

1:41:41

garbage with. A He is

1:41:44

fucking Glock. I Live Aid

1:41:46

Yeah, he's fucking garbage. Oh

1:41:48

man. I had also read:

1:41:51

The. Rage. That. On

1:41:54

out but I'm sure felt personally

1:41:56

went through from her childhood with

1:41:58

the all that shit. and creating

1:42:00

this art and all the blood and

1:42:02

all the passion and emotion behind it.

1:42:04

And this is how she fucking dies.

1:42:07

This is how she dies. I'm

1:42:09

incensed. Yeah, I'm putting

1:42:11

more of her art on the drive because it's

1:42:15

so fucking incredible and so

1:42:17

cool. And she's just

1:42:20

such a badass. And I want to like

1:42:22

really highlight how

1:42:24

much better an artist

1:42:27

she was than this fucking guy. She

1:42:29

just was so much better than him. I

1:42:32

bet you her performance

1:42:34

art was amazing. Really amazing.

1:42:36

Really like earth shattering. It's

1:42:38

truly a tragedy that we

1:42:41

will never get to see more

1:42:43

pieces from her. It's really

1:42:45

fucking sad. Oh, this looks like

1:42:47

a stone river thing with

1:42:50

like red. Looks like

1:42:52

a woman's body with like red

1:42:54

on the bottom half. Yeah.

1:42:57

Wow. Yeah, I'm putting