0:00

Wine and Crime contains graphic

0:02

and explicit content which may

0:04

not be suitable for some

0:06

listeners. Listener discretion is advised.

0:23

Hello and welcome to Wine

0:25

and Crime. That's

0:27

not the intro. You are

0:29

listening to Wine and Crime. We've

0:36

been doing this for over seven

0:38

years. We're fine. The

0:42

podcasts were Two Plus

0:44

Friends, Chug Wine, Chat True

0:46

Crime, and Unleash Their Worst

0:49

Minnesota Accents. Yeah,

0:51

we are three friends today.

0:54

Two Plus. Soul blessed. Well,

0:58

I'm Lucy. I'm

1:00

Amanda. And who's that fellow over

1:02

there? I was just thinking, what would you

1:04

do if I just didn't say anything the

1:07

whole time? I just like, you can see

1:09

me, but I just

1:11

refuse to participate. I would love that. You

1:13

would be fitting the theme of today's episode,

1:15

actually. Oh my, truly. You would be creeping

1:17

in the corner. It's very meta. It's

1:20

very meta. It's me,

1:22

Josh Hallmark. And Josh is

1:24

gaslighting us into believing that

1:26

he's here while not being here.

1:29

I don't really know what the angle is, but I

1:31

love it. I'm here for it. And

1:34

Josh did give us a little hint into

1:38

today's episode topic. T-t-t-topic.

1:40

T-t-t-topic. We have a very

1:43

special fan pick brought

1:45

to you by Tori Smith. Good

1:48

job, Tori. Thanks for giving

1:50

me nightmares. Tori, this... I

1:53

think Tori read my mind because

1:55

I had just finished watching a

1:57

Hulu series about this when... And

2:00

I received Tori's email. So Tori

2:02

has picked the topic of

2:04

house guests, aka,

2:07

frogging crawls. Ugh.

2:10

I'm sure we'll get to where I call the frogging, right?

2:13

Yes, we will. Frogging with the

2:15

EH. Yeah, I texted you guys

2:17

in a blind panic about frogging a

2:19

few months ago. Yes, you did, and that's

2:21

why I was like, well, good for you, we

2:24

got an episode coming up, wanna join? Watching

2:26

14 hours straight of, I think

2:29

that same Hulu series, and I have not

2:31

been able to sleep since. Yeah, and that's

2:33

why I haven't watched it yet. It's,

2:36

don't watch it when you're home alone, because that's

2:38

the mistake that I made, and it was not

2:42

great for my mental health. I feel like

2:44

I shouldn't have watched it when I'm home,

2:46

period. When are you not

2:48

home? Precisely. Okay. It's

2:51

a good hotel watch. It's a great

2:53

hotel watch. I mean, no one's ever

2:55

sneaking in there, no risk. No

2:59

one else has a key to your room

3:01

at all. No, no one's ever getting

3:04

in. Four knocks, babe.

3:06

Have I told you my hotel frogging

3:08

story? No, no. But

3:10

you need to now. Okay, now that is

3:13

now the proper venue for it. Of course, yes. Of

3:15

course. So we went to Puerto

3:17

Rico just a month ago, and- This

3:20

just happened? This just happened.

3:23

Oh my God. And we were

3:25

all, you know, it

3:28

was a birthday gift, so we got

3:30

the presidential suite. Oh yeah, like you

3:32

do. All out

3:34

on the veranda in our

3:37

private jacuzzi. And- Oh my,

3:39

that just keeps getting worse. Where's my

3:41

birthday present? Right? All

3:43

of a sudden, we could hear people

3:45

in our room talking, and

3:48

we ducked our heads in, and there was

3:51

a group of strangers sitting at

3:53

our dining room table eating. What?

3:56

Uh, hi, who are you? And they were

3:59

like, oh, we- We are staying in this room

4:01

and we were like, no,

4:03

we are staying in this room, as you can

4:05

tell because all of our fucking shit is in

4:07

this room. Right. Oh, the hotel gave us a

4:10

key and said that they gave us a free

4:12

upgrade to your room. So

4:14

we had to go down to our room,

4:16

which we had been staying in for like three days at

4:19

this point. What the fuck? The

4:21

bed's probably not made. There's your shit everywhere.

4:23

What the fuck? And like, as

4:25

my partner put it, like we could have

4:27

been pooping or having sex or we are

4:30

both. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

4:34

I like to kill two birds with one stuff. I mean, you know. Efficiency

4:37

is key. You could have been

4:39

pooping in the outdoor jacuzzi. Well,

4:42

we did that after. After the hotel

4:44

totally gaslit us and we're like, we

4:46

think that you lost your key and

4:48

they found it and then entered the building.

4:51

It was this whole big orgeal. Your key

4:53

doesn't have the room number on it. Yeah,

4:55

exactly. So what did they do? They

4:57

went to every floor and tried every room until

4:59

they got to yours and then just went in

5:01

and just stayed? No. Yeah. That

5:04

is beyond creepy. Did you, what

5:07

happened? Did they leave voluntarily? They

5:09

left voluntarily. They were like, oh, weird. It must have

5:12

been a mix up. And then

5:14

the hotel first said that we must have lost

5:16

our keys and they went in. And

5:18

then they said that they checked the

5:21

keypad and they could tell no one had

5:24

been in and we were like, well, you

5:26

didn't ask us enough questions about our entry

5:28

habits to have that information. And

5:31

then they accused us of lying. And

5:35

then I was like, can you pull up cameras?

5:38

And they were like, we don't have cameras. And

5:40

I'm like, I'm standing directly outside the hotel door

5:42

and there is a camera. Yeah, I'm looking at

5:44

a camera. It doesn't work. Also,

5:46

I solve crimes for a

5:48

living. Right. I'm the

5:51

wrong person to try to gaslight about

5:53

this. I love that

5:55

Josh doesn't play that massive

5:57

card. I would play that. the

6:00

time. In my career of stalking

6:02

serial killers. I ordered

6:05

this salad with no cheese and as

6:07

an investigator I can tell you all

6:09

the reasons why I know this has

6:11

cheese on it and

6:13

I can tell you right if that can kill me. Anyway

6:17

that is my most recent

6:19

accidental frogging. Oh wow.

6:22

Maybe it seemed cool. Well

6:25

we wish they were there for a gay wedding

6:27

so they were probably cool. We

6:29

wished we had encountered them later because

6:31

we were like oh I wonder what

6:33

the hotel told them. Very

6:36

curious. There's some

6:38

follow up that I

6:41

would expect. Disappointing.

6:43

They cost us $300 after we were able

6:45

to prove because we also

6:49

were like we called you five times and I

6:51

pulled out my cell phone and showed them the

6:53

call record and they were like oh well we're

6:55

going to comp you $300 for the inconvenience. Okay

7:00

that's the closure I needed. Thank

7:02

you. Even if you just made that up. More

7:05

just like I would rather you like give me a $100

7:08

credit at the restaurant.

7:10

It just seems like

7:12

such an arbitrary comp.

7:14

Yeah. I don't know it felt insufficient.

7:16

It's going to knock a little teeny bit

7:18

off of the large

7:20

expense you've already paid

7:23

to be here. Yeah. Because

7:25

we let someone just

7:27

break into your room and it could

7:29

have gone really bad. It didn't but

7:32

it could have. Oh

7:34

yeah. Well we'll get to

7:36

the could have. I'm so excited. Yeah. So

7:38

thank you

7:44

Tori for this. I am fucking

7:46

jazzed. So let's get into it

7:48

with our wine crime pairing Amanda.

7:51

Yes Tori also had a recommendation

7:53

for us today. She

7:56

requested that we shout out

7:58

arrogant frog wines. for this

8:00

episode. And this is a very fun

8:04

wine brand. I like the story of

8:06

this brand. The owner slash winemaker is

8:08

named Jean Claude Malls. And

8:11

he's French, obviously, this whole brand

8:14

is very French, very French. And

8:17

it's mostly like Languedoc region wine. So

8:19

I really like their selection. Their wines

8:21

sound delicious. I was not able to procure

8:23

them, but they sound very good. But

8:25

in the early 2000s, he's like working on

8:27

this brand, I think he took it over

8:29

or establish it in the late 90s. In

8:32

the early 2000s, he's like, Oh, shit, like,

8:35

people don't like the French like

8:37

we are not globally.

8:42

And the US like kind

8:44

of hates us. And like, that's a

8:46

big market and we want to be

8:48

able to sell wine to them.

8:51

So he's like, I have a great

8:53

idea. Let's like,

8:56

address our own

8:59

arrogance and then like dress it

9:01

down and like make our mascot a

9:03

cute little frog in a beret and have

9:05

all the labels kind of like poking fun

9:07

at ourselves. Oh, I thought you're

9:10

gonna people I thought you're gonna say

9:12

that they rebranded to like live mass

9:14

because his last name is ma as

9:16

that would be amazing. Really dressing it

9:18

down. Really dress it down. They did

9:20

a really brilliant collaboration with Taco Bell

9:22

and now it was

9:25

like literally we're gonna rebrand with

9:27

a frog and kind of poke fun at ourselves and

9:29

see what happens and it fucking worked. And

9:31

now then by 2005, like they started this

9:33

in 2001, this rebrand by 2005, they had

9:36

over 5 million bottles going

9:39

to 40 countries. All

9:42

of which hated France. Pretty bad. So

9:44

it's like, I guess all you really have to do

9:46

is kind of poke fun at the French, which I love.

9:48

So highly recommend checking them out.

9:50

You can see their full inventory at

9:53

arrogant frog.com and you can kind of

9:55

check out like the little behind the

9:57

scenes of their humble beginnings.

10:00

and they're a winemaker who literally

10:02

grew up on a vineyard. And

10:04

there seemed to be some little nods to frogging

10:06

in his own creepy way, because he, as

10:08

a kid, would sneak out and go into

10:10

the wine cellar because he was just fascinated

10:13

by the wine cellar. And it's like, bro,

10:15

you're like frogging in your own wine cellar,

10:17

which I think is quite funny. And he'd

10:19

scare his grandpa. Haha. Speaking

10:22

of, I just saw Bill walk around the

10:24

corner. And maybe it was

10:26

Bill. It was Bill. Or

10:28

it was a frogger. You'll probably

10:30

see him walk around the corner a couple of times,

10:32

because he made a pizza and it's here in the

10:35

kitchen. It smells really good. So while

10:37

I do not have arrogant frog at

10:39

my fingertips, I do have the bluffer

10:41

of that Vadige, which I'm very excited

10:43

to pop into. And I feel like

10:45

this was also fairly applicable because it's

10:47

like, you're lying about

10:50

whether or not you live here and you know

10:52

you're not supposed to be here. How did you

10:54

get here? Nobody's supposed to be here. Totally. So

10:57

I'm going to pop this open. It's a

10:59

tasty looking little red. What is she? 14.3%

11:02

ABV. I

11:04

did not take any oxy

11:08

today. Haha. Haha.

11:10

I had to prompt you. Yep. So

11:14

it is safe for me to drink this.

11:17

And yeah, I'm excited. This is like a little

11:19

bit of a fruitier, lighter red. You're going

11:21

to get a little bit of strawberry on there, but it's going

11:23

to finish nice and dry. So it's not going to be

11:25

like a fruit bomb. Is anyone

11:27

else drinking anything today? Are you all

11:30

on your best behavior? COVID. So

11:32

you need to drink more than any of

11:34

us. Dude, my BAC has been at zero

11:37

for longer than my body's used to. I

11:39

probably should. Haha. Honey,

11:41

I'm worried. Here,

11:44

you know what? I will pop open a,

11:46

I think I have a truly in the fridge. Peer

11:48

pressure, go get your truly. In

11:51

the meantime, I have got my Kim

11:54

Crawford, something on Blanc. God.

11:56

Oh, Chad True. Yeah,

12:01

totally a lady. That's

12:03

a high noon. That's not truly. I know.

12:06

It was just a neutral and the neutral

12:08

just tastes like Stevia. It's so gross. Why

12:10

would you ever get one that didn't have a flavor? Why do

12:13

you do this to yourself? It doesn't have

12:15

a flavor. I don't know. No, it

12:17

has a flavor. It's pineapple. No,

12:19

he's talking about the Nerk Turtles. Nerk

12:21

Turtles. Oh, I

12:23

thought you were saying that they made a

12:26

neutral flavor, which just tastes like sparkling water.

12:28

And then you were saying that it just

12:30

tastes like Stevia. And I was like, Josh,

12:33

you're better than this. I am.

12:35

And that's why that didn't happen.

12:37

Okay, I'm glad you corrected me

12:39

on that. All right, I'm going

12:41

to pop this for all the fucking

12:44

Looney Tunes. Listen, here we go. No,

12:47

I'm not. I am, though. It's

12:49

fine. It's just like old times. It

12:54

tastes so much better with cork in it. Yeah.

12:57

Listen, I can

12:59

just taste that grit. This is

13:01

a flawless removal, not a bit

13:04

of damage to that cork. Good

13:06

job. That was a nice

13:08

pop. Cheers. Cheers.

13:12

Josh is going to get wasted so fast. I

13:15

love it. Well, before

13:17

we dive in to the special selection

13:19

that Lucy has for us today, which

13:21

is not just background. It's like it's

13:23

also a little case. A

13:26

little case for us. Let's take a

13:28

brief moment to hear a word from

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nitty gritty. Let's do it. I got

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it goes without saying that bras

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are not the most

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comfortable piece of clothing. If you

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have some bad bra experiences. I

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overflowing, tapping.

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And then they're like too tight until they're too

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you find one bra that's on a

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One of the things that always drives me

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and then it's just digging into your back.

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Yep. And you don't notice it

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back. We're back. Cowboy take us

20:55

away. And I'm going to,

20:57

I've got not really

21:00

any psych because

21:04

this can happen to anyone, by anyone.

21:09

Oh, does that mean you have to shake them? Shake your goddamn

21:12

bowl and. Oh fuck. Oh no.

21:14

My cork fell out. Yeah, that's a bad omen.

21:16

That's a bad omen. That is kind of a bad

21:19

omen. Not me. Someone was

21:21

in my office loosening my cork. It

21:23

was your baby. She's already standing.

21:26

She's already frogging. So

21:29

advanced. Your baby, every

21:31

baby is frogging. According

21:34

to dictionary.com, frogging, P-H,

21:37

it's slang, is secretly

21:39

living in another person's home without

21:42

their knowledge or permission. The

21:44

person doing the frogging is often called

21:46

a frog. Kind of cute. Again,

21:49

P-H and sometimes called

21:51

a frogger. Frog, frogger. It's

21:53

an opportunity for frogger. Mm-hmm.

21:58

Both and. Interchangeable. Studio

22:00

both ends. Shout

22:03

out. See what we did there Josh? See

22:05

what we did there? I did. Thank you. So

22:08

a frogger's main goal is to live

22:10

somewhere rent free. They avoid confrontation while

22:13

also sometimes stealing items from the person

22:15

living there, such as food,

22:17

toiletries, and valuables. According

22:20

to Brinks, as in home

22:22

security, the name comes

22:24

from the idea of a leapfrog. Here

22:26

you go. The frogger often hops from

22:28

place to place like a leapfrog, staying

22:32

hidden whether it be in

22:35

someone's basement, attic, or walls.

22:37

Yeah, or floorboards. Ish.

22:41

Under the bed. Frogging

22:44

is similar to squatting except

22:46

that frogging involves living in

22:48

an occupied property, whereas

22:50

squatters live in unoccupied places.

22:54

Okay. Froggers also often

22:56

don't stay long term while

22:58

squatters often live in places

23:00

in order to establish permanent

23:02

residence there. Squatter's rights baby.

23:05

In fact, squatters sometimes do take

23:08

legal ownership of the property through

23:10

adverse possession. And adverse

23:12

possession laws vary in different states,

23:14

and it's usually known as squatters

23:16

rights. We should have a squatters

23:18

crimes episode. I love it. Because

23:21

those laws are bonks

23:23

to me. I

23:25

want to learn more because I have a

23:27

feeling I just got really lucky becoming

23:30

a homeowner and it may never

23:32

happen again. And if I want

23:34

a nicer house one day, I'm

23:37

only going to be able to

23:39

achieve that bias squatters rights. So

23:42

I need research. It kind

23:44

of ties into like the sovereign citizens

23:46

shit. Yeah. It's very strange.

23:50

Airbnb thing where these people Airbnb

23:52

the house and refuse to leave.

23:55

There was a show called like

23:57

the worst roommates or bad roommates.

24:00

roommates or something like that. Yeah, every episode. It's so

24:02

good. But

24:06

yeah, they definitely get into some of

24:08

the nitty gritty of squatters rights stuff

24:10

on that show too. It's wild. I

24:14

don't really understand why those laws

24:17

exist. I mean,

24:20

if you go in York City and how

24:22

many fucking vacant

24:25

units there are there because owners

24:27

can't fill them and yet there's a housing

24:30

crisis. It's like fuck

24:32

those people. If you can afford to

24:34

have prime real estate sitting around for

24:36

years on end, then yes, water should

24:38

go in and take it away from

24:40

you. Yeah, I

24:42

think I agree. I

24:44

understand it on like

24:46

a humanitarian level to

24:49

many degrees. That is not why

24:51

we create laws in this country. Exactly. That

24:54

is not why we create laws in this

24:56

country. So I get baffled by

24:58

it frequently. But yeah, I think we

25:00

have to put that on the docket

25:02

because we clearly don't know shit. Somebody

25:05

listening who is like a

25:07

professional in some housing

25:10

law capacity is screaming and pulling their hair

25:12

out listening to us talk about this right

25:14

now. That's

25:16

what I like to imagine whenever we don't know

25:18

what we're talking about someone screaming and pulling

25:21

out their hair. Or a squatter is listening to

25:23

us going. Oh,

25:25

okay. Yeah, maybe

25:28

if you're a professional squatter, please reach

25:30

out. We'd like to hear from you.

25:32

We definitely want the d. I want

25:34

to know how it's done. Yeah.

25:39

Yeah. Okay, so squatter is right. This

25:41

usually allows the squatter to gain legal

25:43

ownership based on a continuous occupation of

25:45

a property without the permission of its

25:48

legal owner. So yeah,

25:50

again, we'll have to come back to that at the

25:52

later date. There is apparently

25:54

a Frogger's Code of

25:56

Conduct. So

26:01

obviously, not all froggers abide by

26:03

this code because not all froggers

26:06

love rules, as

26:08

is evident by the definition of frogging.

26:11

This kind of reminds me of like camping

26:13

rules, like Boundary Waters rules. Except for

26:16

maybe the first one. Like leave it nicer than you found it.

26:19

Take everything out. Number one

26:21

is don't get detected, which is not

26:23

necessarily a Boundary Waters rule, but that's

26:26

a frogger rule. Number two, clean up

26:28

after yourself. Number three,

26:30

only take what you need. And

26:32

number four, leave the home in the same

26:35

condition as when you first arrived. Or

26:37

cleaner. Yeah. Clean, you know. Well,

26:40

if you clean it, you'll get detected. That's

26:42

rule number one. If you clean it, I

26:45

will ignore that you're living there. I'm

26:47

the fly guy. Yeah.

26:50

No harm, no fall. That's

26:52

true. If your frogger was like a little

26:54

bit of a housekeeper. I

26:57

think I could be okay with that. I would

26:59

love that. Do you have a frogger? It's

27:02

Ray. He's a frogger. Yes. So

27:05

while the origin of the term remains a

27:07

mystery as to like who started it and

27:09

when, Ree

27:12

Tipster states that most people attribute

27:14

the term to a documentary series

27:16

called Living with Strangers, which was

27:18

released on YouTube in 2006. Oh,

27:22

it's old. This series

27:24

follows two young women, Renee and

27:26

Lauren, who spent five days frogging

27:29

in an alleged stranger's home. Wow.

27:32

The two women later claimed to be

27:34

actresses and stated that the series was

27:36

staged. What do you think? I

27:38

never saw it, but it

27:41

probably was. It sounds like a Blair Witch

27:43

sort of thing. But

27:45

only a few episodes are left up on

27:47

YouTube. It was also on Amazon for

27:49

a little while, but it was taken down in 2015,

27:51

which actually kind

27:54

of makes me think that it wasn't staged. That's

27:56

what I mean. It's like, why

27:58

are they trying so hard to purge? it from

28:00

the internet if it was just a project,

28:03

like a fake acting project. And

28:05

they would have

28:08

prerogative to claim that it was

28:10

staged to avoid,

28:12

you know, getting trouble. Litigation.

28:15

Yeah. I'm just saying this conspiracy

28:17

runs deep. I like that. According

28:20

to digital cultures, the term was first

28:22

defined in Urban Dictionary on July 13th,

28:24

2006, and it has

28:26

since racked up numerous other entries. The

28:29

first time frogging emerged in an

28:32

online discussion post can be linked

28:34

to a thread on the Straight

28:36

Dope message board posted in August

28:38

2007 asking if the phenomenon

28:40

was real. So basically the term

28:42

dates back to like 2006. The

28:45

Straight Dope message board is the

28:47

most 2007 shit I've ever

28:49

fucking heard in my life. I can like

28:51

see the pond. It's also probably like, it

28:53

makes 4chan look like a lovely

28:55

place to be. A

28:58

playground. Yeah. Yeah. Back

29:03

when all keyboards were like chunky. Oh yeah.

29:06

I miss it. Sticky. So

29:08

sticky. A lot of dust, a lot of

29:11

crumbs. What do you really need that

29:13

canned air? So

29:17

I know that we might cover this

29:19

a little bit later in the episode, but there

29:21

have been a few celebrities that have been victims

29:23

of frogging and I am not going to rain

29:27

on anyone's parade, don't worry. I love that.

29:30

JLo was a victim of

29:32

frogging in 2013 when 49 year

29:35

old John Dubis broke into her

29:37

Hamptons home while he wasn't there. There's

29:41

a picture of him on the drive, which will be on the

29:43

blog. He is. Ew, I need to know

29:45

what John Dubis looks like. He's got like

29:47

long blonde hair. Never

29:49

trust a blonde man, especially if the hair goes

29:52

down to their shoulders. Sorry Josh. I'm

29:55

not blonde. He's not blonde. You're a blondeer.

29:57

You're blonder than... Mo...

30:00

I mean, I know. Blonde

30:02

adjacent? Yeah. families. This. Guy

30:05

is. Blond. Real

30:07

amp. What that is not natural. Look at his

30:09

roots as roots. Are gray it so

30:11

he saw in her pool house

30:14

for six days or. Even

30:17

for it. Even. Though, Frogs.

30:19

Frogs. Even though guards were patrolling

30:21

the property, probably frogs still. The.

30:24

Man was only discovered there like once.

30:26

He was. Caught by that like

30:28

they came into the pool Ausra like

30:30

excuse me sir. Move. To

30:32

even uploaded photos on Facebook of

30:34

his time. They're referring to J

30:37

Lo as his dear wife Jenny.

30:39

Ah my like. Claiming to

30:42

be her at her ex husband, her

30:44

current husband. He was like actively posting

30:46

on social media. About being

30:48

there while he was there, he

30:50

was charged with burglary, possess possessing

30:53

burglary tools, and criminal contempt. Rian.

30:56

I was also a victim of

30:58

sobbing and twenty eighteen when Eduardo

31:01

Leone broke into her Hollywood home.

31:03

When. She wasn't there and stayed over

31:05

night. Earth. Rian as assistant

31:07

found him in a living room as

31:10

he was charging his phone next to

31:12

his unpack the bag like he moved

31:14

in a little bit. Yeah, that's ballsy.

31:17

He was charged with stocking,

31:19

vandalism, first degree residential burglary,

31:22

and resisting arrest. It's.

31:24

This theory is like even if folks.

31:26

Are harmless. People. In the

31:28

public. I like that. Don't. Know

31:30

that and have enough. I think

31:33

reason. To believe.

31:36

Or. Assume. Then if

31:38

you are you know and

31:40

Gracie ingratiating yourself into their

31:43

personal space without welcome. That.

31:45

That. Goes hand in hand with

31:47

potential harm. Oh yeah yeah

31:50

would eat have. Not respecting

31:52

boundaries. Yeah. remembered self

31:54

harm. full. And

31:57

has lions at the same is is

31:59

is. Be. that famous is

32:01

already so violating just

32:04

how you exist. And

32:06

rich people have so many windows. Yeah.

32:10

Rich people love to look at the view. They

32:13

love to look down at everyone below them.

32:17

As always on a hill. Rihanna

32:20

can look down on me any, she

32:22

can step on my face. I would

32:24

love to look up at Rihanna. It

32:28

would be the

32:30

joy of my life to

32:32

look up at Rihanna while she steps on me. I

32:34

would be thrilled. Well

32:36

at the Super Bowl last year

32:38

she was like floating above everyone.

32:41

Pregnant. Pregnant. Yeah,

32:43

amazing. I can't. God, that was good. But

32:45

yeah, just can we like not, there

32:47

are plenty of other shitty rich

32:49

people whose houses we could fuck with.

32:52

Can we like leave Rihanna alone? Yeah. For

32:54

a while, that'd be super great. Go bling

32:56

ring someone else. And don't like

32:58

move in. Don't unpack. No.

33:00

So if caught frogging someone may

33:02

face several criminal charges

33:05

including felony charges. Some

33:07

of these charges may include

33:10

criminal trespass on fines. Criminal

33:13

trespassing. Criminal trespassing which is

33:15

usually a misdemeanor. Burglary,

33:17

destruction of property, vandalism,

33:20

invasion of privacy, theft,

33:22

stalking and harassment. So

33:25

can you get a charge for

33:27

burgling even if you don't take

33:30

anything? That's more of just

33:32

like the breaking in. It's like the violation of

33:34

the high

33:49

value item but you can maybe get a

33:51

burglary charge for even just like you're using

33:53

my toilet paper you ate my bread like

33:56

more petty stuff like that maybe. So

33:58

otherwise why bother you too. With both, Why

34:01

a burglary? Fast. And. Breaking

34:03

and Entering Trespassing. That.

34:05

Was probably my mistakes as I

34:07

just added Sas because I forgot

34:09

that burglary was already on my

34:12

list. Look at the level that

34:14

only someone know deep into that

34:16

ssssss miss. Okay sell. As was

34:18

alluded to, I do have a

34:20

little case to share. This

34:23

is fucked up and Josh already knows that

34:25

it because it was featured on That Will

34:27

The Such Sit? What Is the Hulu series?

34:29

Call it is a ranger and my walls

34:31

or something but own Maybe I'm digging of

34:33

a different when the one I watched it

34:35

was just like frogging Colon and then like

34:37

stranger in my house. Oh. Okay

34:39

knowing I think we're talking about

34:41

the same one so will. This

34:44

is also have a fan suggestion

34:46

Oh. No. Wonder it's so creepy

34:48

because y'all are deprived. Yeah,

34:50

you're fucked up Zola of

34:52

and the scary shit. And

34:55

we just. Dance like the

34:58

little monkeys we are. And

35:00

this one kind of pulls a i have

35:02

a ring type ending as we were talking

35:04

about the other day. Like you think it's

35:07

over, it's not over. Oh God

35:09

is this involves. A

35:11

cat. No. Record

35:14

of. As account on my lap. It.

35:18

Involves a cat now. Some

35:20

of London's this is this is one of those

35:23

episodes. They were like we can find our. Dog.

35:25

And they listen to the basement in

35:27

there is a cat wearing their dogs

35:30

clothes. Don't.

35:33

Remember that little fraud? or to try

35:35

to replace their. Dog with examples

35:37

of Frogger ended up like stealing

35:40

a loved one's dog of a

35:42

moving into their basement and then

35:44

found her loved ones. Cat moved

35:47

into these people's basement, found their

35:49

cats box of costumes, For

35:52

Us supreme the dog, it

35:54

rejects it off and co

35:57

writable as a citizen. By

35:59

exactly how. That one. This is

36:01

how I would do it. That's not bad. Not the

36:03

kind of Frogger I aspire to be. I'm just here

36:05

for the. Pet. Policy of on

36:07

bailey my own business. I have

36:09

a boxes cat costumes in my basement

36:11

so that that are organ in some

36:14

frog in his fraud and on earth.

36:18

So it's no way back to

36:21

Nineteen Eighty Six. In

36:23

Pepperoni, Massachusetts, As as before, two

36:25

thirds of us were even born.

36:28

Yet. Old Ass assess assess

36:30

assess the listeners at home

36:32

jaws his foot to solve.

36:35

It meant as. A

36:38

resource you lot younger than any

36:40

of of sit usually our agora

36:42

but I would argue. Ah tian,

36:44

there's an eye toward garden ranking

36:46

to maintain your youth, but we

36:48

want some okay to laugh over

36:50

here as you look Incredible Ivanka.

36:53

Clear Murray Clinton Yeah, I'm

36:55

young. And more than more ways

36:57

than one who puts. Us.

37:01

At a Salt Pepper. All Massachusetts

37:03

it's It's near Boston of the

37:05

So. This is where sixteen year

37:07

old Tina Bowen lives with her

37:09

father Frank and older sister Kathy.

37:11

Her mother had recently died from

37:13

cancer and the whole family. Was.

37:16

Just bereft. They were grieving. So.

37:18

One day out of the blue,

37:20

Tina received a phone call from

37:22

a local boy named Daniel. Love

37:24

Plants. To. Live forever out The

37:27

Daniel. Know. That's. A

37:29

good place. For years at the same

37:31

age as her and she was either fifteen or

37:33

sixteen I saw two different and in products at

37:35

a figure that out with math but I didn't

37:37

he's around that age. He.

37:39

Claimed to have gotten her phone number

37:41

from a mutual friend and supposedly lived in

37:44

the same neighborhood as her. So.

37:47

They. started chatting. Gradually.

37:49

Tina and Daniel formed a close

37:52

bond over there frequent phone calls.

37:54

And see valued him as a friend

37:56

who helped solace her out of her

37:58

grief. Okay, She lost her mom

38:01

because she lost her mom. Got it.

38:03

He described himself as tall,

38:06

blonde, handsome. He sounded nice.

38:08

She had an image of

38:10

him in her head as

38:12

like being this attractive guy.

38:15

Did she actually not really know what he looks

38:18

like? Like he claimed that they knew each other?

38:20

Okay, no, he just claimed that they had a mutual

38:23

friend and he lived in the same area.

38:25

Okay, so he could give her any description he

38:27

wants to. Eventually,

38:31

Danielle asked Tina out on a

38:33

date to go to the local

38:35

fair, get some ice cream. She

38:37

accepted. She was excited to show

38:39

off her handsome new boyfriend

38:41

and her friends, blonde man.

38:44

But when she finally met

38:46

him face to face, she

38:48

was kind of

38:50

creeped out because he was nothing

38:52

like she imagined. He was nothing

38:54

like he described. He catfished her.

38:56

He's like the first catfish. And

38:59

he made her really uncomfortable by

39:01

asking her way too many questions

39:03

about her mother's death. Oh,

39:06

so she like stuck it out through the

39:08

date but was relieved to

39:10

finally go home. Yeah,

39:12

like that was a bad experience.

39:15

Imagine thinking like, okay, if I

39:17

get through this, it'll be over. I don't

39:19

have to answer these calls. I

39:21

can just put this to rest and knowing

39:24

because the story is being featured on this

39:26

show that that's super

39:28

not how that's going to go. No,

39:30

that's how the episode ends. Oh, okay.

39:32

Great. Anyway, that's my segment. Everyone's

39:36

fine. He just wasn't blonde. Unfortunately,

39:42

no. A few days later, Tina

39:44

and Kathy, her older sister decided

39:47

to use a Ouija board to

39:49

contact their mother. I saw that

39:51

Frogger again, Amanda, that Frogger is

39:53

behind you. It's Bill. Sure.

39:56

He's real. He's real. He's a

39:58

real boy. Okay. User.

40:00

We the bar to contact their

40:02

mother as you do. Oh once

40:05

a concert her spirit and started

40:07

asking questions. They. Were surprised.

40:10

Scared. Shocked to hear

40:12

rhythmic knocking through the walls

40:14

in no bombs to their

40:17

questions. Know. So. As

40:19

I don't know as anyone would they

40:21

assumed that was they're dead mother spirits

40:23

are they like Continued asking questions and

40:25

kind of did it for a little

40:27

while. They were freaked out. but they

40:29

you know southern the. Wii when the

40:31

same thing of course. I.

40:34

Also, if I was the Frogger I would

40:36

do the same. Most difficult the opportunity like

40:38

that and of this is never gonna arise.

40:40

Sir Alex, you're. Take it at all the

40:42

way at all as a pretty prime moment to

40:45

be. A frog Or what a time to be a frog.

40:47

Or not it was. Rather than

40:49

as we all know, it's a

40:51

tricky feel to conjure spirit, specially

40:53

the weegee board you're really playing

40:55

with Fire and odd things began

40:57

happening around the bow and household.

41:00

Oh no. furniture would

41:02

be rearranged like dramatically

41:04

rearranged. Tv channels would

41:06

change. On their own. And. A

41:09

gas lighting. like. They think that

41:11

they welcomed this. Into their home

41:13

by using the Wheezy Ward say fully

41:15

thought it was as. A

41:18

your it. A family turned

41:20

evil spirit. Also. Full glasses

41:22

of milk would be emptied as if like

41:24

one of the girls left the room for

41:26

a minute. Porter. South of our milk

41:29

went to the bathroom, came back last and uncles M

41:31

T. O this filthy man just

41:33

stirring out of a wall. That show

41:35

the milk as as a summary

41:37

away were. Even worse the

41:40

girls discovered threatening messages written in

41:42

what they at the time for

41:44

seems to be blood on the

41:47

basement walls. Ah, so they

41:49

will either thoroughly freaked out, but when

41:51

they tried to tell their dad about

41:54

it. Frank. bolland just dismiss

41:56

their claims and thought they were just kind

41:58

of struggling to accept their much because they

42:00

were like, we did the Ouija board and

42:02

then our mom's spirit came and all this

42:04

crazy shit started happening. He's like, uh,

42:07

yeah. And it was the eighties. So, no therapy.

42:12

Yeah. However,

42:15

on December 8th, 1986, Frank

42:17

received a call from his daughters and one of

42:19

their friends who had been hanging out at the

42:22

Bowen household. The girls

42:24

had seen another bloody message this

42:26

time on Tina's bedroom wall. No.

42:28

And had rushed out of the

42:32

house to the neighbor's house to call

42:34

Frank and tell

42:36

him what happened. Yeah. This

42:38

is a quote from Sinemaholic. When

42:41

Frank arrived, he noticed the furniture

42:43

to be in even more disarray

42:45

than the girls had described. So

42:48

it got worse since he

42:50

received the phone call and

42:52

someone had recently used their toilet.

42:55

Ew, it didn't flush it. I

42:58

guess. How else would you know what

43:00

was in there? I was

43:03

in the toilet. Lucy. I

43:05

don't know. No. Let's go

43:10

with two. You know, it was a

43:12

two because like no one's going to clock

43:14

a one. Yeah. Was there a toilet paper?

43:17

Unless it was a one that was

43:19

like, oh, there wasn't toilet paper. Oh,

43:23

God, you guys. It just keeps

43:25

getting worse. That that

43:27

wasn't a bloody message. It was a poopy

43:30

message. Are they like, Hey,

43:32

girl, hey, or they like, I'm going to put

43:34

my fist down your throat. Like what was the

43:36

message? It's like, you're going to die. Hey,

43:38

girl, hey, I'm going to put my fist

43:40

down your throat. Where are these messages falling? We're

43:43

on we're far on the latter side. Oh,

43:45

it's like, I'm going to kill you. Oh, well, he's

43:51

a Dan scorned a Daniel scorned.

43:54

We don't know anything about

43:56

that. I'm making assumptions based

43:59

on the. information I have

44:01

right now and it's him and he

44:03

is not a natural blonde and I'm

44:05

upset. Okay,

44:10

after seeing the bloody messages

44:12

himself, Frank investigated further. So

44:15

he's like going around the house trying to figure

44:19

out like who the fuck is in my house scaring

44:21

my daughters. He

44:23

goes into one of the bedrooms or

44:26

he goes into his own bedroom

44:28

and opens like his late wife's

44:30

side of the closet and

44:33

finds Daniel LaPlante

44:36

hiding in the closet dressed. One

44:39

article said dressed as a Native American

44:41

but also like wearing a

44:44

quote unquote hairy coat like wearing

44:46

a furry coat and

44:48

face paint and he

44:50

was wielding a hatchet and a

44:52

wrench. No.

44:55

No. So Daniel pops out

44:57

of the closet takes Frank,

45:00

Tina, Kathy

45:02

and this friend hostage

45:05

in the room. He

45:08

like shuts the door and is threatening them

45:10

and like won't let them leave. He takes

45:12

them hostage in their own home. Oh

45:14

no. But luckily

45:16

somehow Tina manages to escape. She jumps

45:19

out the window and runs over to

45:21

the neighbor's house and calls the police.

45:24

This is what's so wild to me

45:26

about stories like this that pre-date cell

45:28

phones and in

45:30

some communities even in

45:32

1986, well

45:35

maybe they probably did, maybe everywhere

45:37

did have 911 by then but like not

45:39

everywhere even had 911 dispatch

45:42

like you had to dial

45:44

the full fucking phone number of

45:46

your police department to

45:49

get a response like well this was

45:51

near Boston so they probably had it

45:53

but still it's like I I can't

45:57

I can't Josh

46:00

remembers the time before 911. But

46:02

we don't. I

46:05

do not. Go fuck yourself. I

46:09

hope there's a Frogger in your closet right now.

46:11

Being a child of the 50s, I like to

46:13

think Josh is a boomer. I

46:19

like to think that there are not places in

46:21

my house that would be

46:23

amenable to frogging. But then I lose

46:26

my cats all the time. And I'm like, where the

46:28

fuck are you hiding? And

46:30

it's like they know all the good spots.

46:32

The spots exist. I know

46:34

of two places in my house

46:37

that are totally amenable to a

46:39

Frogger. We do. Our bedroom,

46:41

our main bedroom, is a converted attic

46:44

that still has roof access that we've

46:46

had to turn into storage and closets. That's

46:48

definitely good frogging location.

46:51

I mean, there are places in my house

46:53

that are closed off. But there are pockets

46:56

of space in there. Under my porch.

46:58

I'm just going to listen to your house. Josh, what are good

47:00

frogging spots in your house? Let's all give our address in the

47:02

best frogging spot. Yes. We

47:05

could house a community of Froggers. And

47:07

no one could hear a scream. You

47:10

have so many wildlife cameras, though. I feel

47:12

like your shit would get picked up. A

47:14

Frogger would get picked up so fast. Oh,

47:17

totally. You have a very surveilled

47:19

yard. And it's not for security.

47:21

It's for ducks and nighttime critters.

47:24

Yeah. All of whom

47:26

have names. Heavy surveillance.

47:29

Yeah, you couldn't get away with sneaking around

47:32

my house because my floors are way too

47:34

creaky. I

47:36

would know if you were there, for sure.

47:38

But there is a pocket under

47:40

my porch. There's a really

47:43

small space between

47:45

my upper floor and the roof. And

47:48

also under the stairs before

47:51

we redid them. Under

47:53

the ground. One of the steps lifted

47:55

up. No. And there's

47:58

a whole crawl space under the staircase. The

48:00

fuck? Yeah, it's gross. It's not very

48:02

big, but it's there. Is

48:05

that where Charles said there was, quote, darkness

48:07

coming from the basement or fear coming from

48:09

the basement? Well, the basement. Yeah,

48:12

there's fear coming from the basement. Her

48:14

psychic told her there was fear

48:17

coming from the basement. We're

48:19

better now. Probably all the kids that

48:22

they kept down in that sub-stair crawl

48:24

space. Probably. So there was a large

48:26

family who lived in this house here in like the

48:28

50s and 60s. And

48:31

they had like, I think there were like four

48:33

or five kids. And he said that it

48:36

seemed like the kids like fucked

48:38

with each other and like locked each other in the

48:40

basement. Like you do? Freak

48:43

each other out. Yeah. The oldest

48:45

one died in Vietnam. Great. Great. Anyway,

48:47

moving on. I've staged a bunch

48:49

in this house. I've done a

48:51

lot of energy work. It

48:53

feels a lot better now. Okay.

48:56

So Tina jumps out the window, runs to the neighbor's house,

48:58

calls the cops. By the time

49:00

the police arrived, Daniel had vanished. But

49:03

he didn't hurt anybody? He didn't hurt

49:05

anybody. He once- You seem disappointed.

49:09

No, I'm shocked,

49:11

honestly. If you're hiding in a hatchet

49:13

in like bad racist drag

49:16

or a closet with a hatchet in

49:18

bad racist drag and then you don't

49:20

hurt anyone, I'm just kind of surprised.

49:22

Well, he got spooked because Tina ran out

49:25

of the house. Okay. So

49:27

he's like, oh shit, the cops are going to

49:29

be here any second. So he, he peaced

49:31

out. Got it. Okay. That

49:34

tracks. So the cops came, Daniel was gone, the family

49:36

was freaked. They relocated to

49:38

a hotel because they weren't going

49:40

to stay in that fucking house

49:42

anymore. No. Because also

49:44

by then they were piecing together that he'd

49:47

been in there for a while. He had been

49:49

in there for a while. We'll get to

49:51

it. So two days later,

49:54

Frank, Father Frank returned to the

49:56

house to retrieve some belongings as

49:59

he's approaching the house. he looks through a window

50:01

and he sees Daniel

50:03

in the window. So Daniel's in

50:05

their fucking house again. After

50:07

he'd already been caught. Yeah, he's in

50:09

the house again. So Frank

50:11

calls the cops. The cops

50:13

come. The cops go into the

50:15

house where they discover a horrifying

50:18

message. So here's a quote from Officer

50:21

Bizanson. When

50:24

I opened the door on the right

50:26

hand wall, I saw a knife sticking out

50:28

of the wall. And I

50:30

see it's through a picture, a

50:32

family picture, written on it

50:34

in magic marker. I'm still

50:37

here. Come find me. No.

50:39

Oh, Christ. Oh, God. No.

50:43

Now the hair goes up on

50:45

the back of my head. Yeah.

50:47

Yeah. Oh, no. You

50:49

know, it gets so much worse, you guys.

50:51

How? Well, we'll get to

50:53

it. On another wall, I

50:55

saw another picture saying I'm going

50:58

to kill you all with a knife

51:00

through it. Which I did wake

51:02

up whispering, I'm going to kill you in

51:04

bed with my husband not that long ago.

51:06

But this was a different situation. I

51:09

am not creepier than Daniel LaPlante

51:11

and you fucking take that back

51:13

right the fuck now. You're

51:15

up there. I'm up

51:18

there. I

51:20

mean, it's not not creepy.

51:25

It wasn't me. It was the oxy, you guys. It

51:29

was the tall man. For

51:31

both of those excuses. That will be my

51:34

defense in court, by the way. Let

51:36

it be known. I'm

51:39

going to get drunk now. This

51:43

is this episode is fucked.

51:45

So the cops dig

51:48

around the house. They determined that

51:50

Daniel was hiding behind a wall

51:52

in the bathroom. So

51:54

this officer, Bizanson, recalled, quote, I pulled

51:57

my pistol and said, I got the

51:59

son of. a bitch right here, but

52:02

he didn't move. I told him, let

52:04

me see your hands or I will

52:06

splatter your brains all over that wall.

52:08

Okay. Okay.

52:11

We'll see after a little histrionic.

52:14

Abracadabzinga's got a flare for

52:16

the histrionics. Yeah. Cool,

52:18

it Abracadabzinga. So eventually

52:20

Daniel comes out. The cops soon discovered

52:23

that he's been secretly living in a

52:25

crawl space between the walls that separate

52:27

the toilet and the plumbing for

52:30

almost a year. Oh

52:33

my God. So when we

52:35

first reached out to

52:37

the daughter, he was already creeping

52:39

in there. I'm going to

52:41

get, I'm going to answer your questions. Oh

52:44

my fucking God. Almost a year.

52:47

Living there. Yeah. This

52:49

begs a question. A question?

52:55

He was behind the toilet. Was he

52:57

like peeping on them pooping? Oh,

52:59

he was at least huffing, huffing.

53:01

You could hear. You could

53:05

imagine. Imagine all of my

53:07

gassy, this guy would have moved out

53:09

after four days behind my toilet. Not even.

53:11

That's been very generous. Four hours. Yeah.

53:14

That's, he'd be like, you know what? It's

53:17

not worth it. It's

53:19

just not worth it. You could say

53:21

this guy was a pooper peeper. Okay.

53:28

Yeah, you could say that Josh. Pooper

53:30

peep. Peep, peep, peep, peep. A

53:32

little pooper peeper.

53:37

Almost a year. Okay. Keep going. I want

53:39

to die. This is awful. I'm freaking out.

53:41

I hate it. So who was

53:43

this teenage creeper? Daniel

53:45

LaPlante was born on May 15th, 1970, a

53:50

Taurus, not a blonde

53:52

and grew up in Townsend,

53:54

Massachusetts. How far away is that?

53:56

Do we know from where they are

53:58

now? They're all in the

54:00

same area. Okay, so it's

54:02

like an adjoining town. I think

54:05

it's probably like Chanhassen,

54:07

Excelsior. Got it, okay. From

54:10

a young age, he was

54:12

sexually and psychologically abused, primarily

54:14

by his father, but also

54:16

by his stepfather and his

54:19

fucking psychiatrist. Oh my

54:21

god, the trauma. Okay, now I

54:23

feel bad. It's still

54:25

awful, but I do feel bad. You're still responsible

54:27

for your actions. Correct. He

54:30

struggled in school and was diagnosed with

54:32

dyslexia when he was pretty young. He

54:35

was not popular at school,

54:37

behaving- You don't say.

54:40

He behaved abnormally and

54:43

he did not have good

54:45

hygiene. He was just an

54:47

antisocial, didn't

54:49

fit in guy. That's

54:52

a rough combo too. You're

54:54

gonna get bullied. Yeah. His

54:57

classmates described him as creepy and

54:59

weird. Quote, this guy

55:01

was- Josh is like memories. Josh

55:04

cracks open a yearbook. It

55:10

was funny. Tell

55:13

Cersei, I'm Daniel

55:15

LaPlante. I'm Daniel LaPlante. I'm the

55:17

pooper peeper. No,

55:19

Josh, are you the pooper peeper? I'm

55:21

the pooper peeper. Quote,

55:25

the guy never really was all that

55:27

friendly. He never liked to go to

55:29

parties. He never really talked much. Said

55:33

classmate Patrick McWiegan

55:35

to the Boston Globe in

55:37

December of 1987. In

55:41

his teens, Daniel was arrested numerous

55:43

times for breaking into neighbor's homes.

55:46

So he had a history of breaking in.

55:49

He stole jewelry, money, and other belongings,

55:52

earning himself a bad reputation in the

55:54

community. So people knew who

55:56

he was in his- The

56:00

neighborhood. In fact, he had

56:02

broken into the Bow and

56:04

House before He first called

56:07

Tina. Having seen a

56:09

picture of her in the

56:11

house and be cut out

56:13

and saturated narrative. It's it's

56:16

so fucking tragic because this

56:18

kid needed help. This.

56:20

Whole fucking time and

56:22

was. Ostracized by his

56:25

community which like I get.

56:27

Yeah. But there are so many

56:29

victims as a situation. Because this

56:32

kid was. Armed.

56:34

So violently. and then

56:36

nobody. Uses. Cast aside and then

56:38

it's like what the fuck you effects course is

56:40

gonna live in your. Wall the fuck out

56:42

of this poor bastard. Just. Like

56:46

this is why we need for he's

56:48

gonna live in a lot of fucking.

56:50

Live in your i didn't note

56:52

so funny but it's like fuck

56:54

you come up a we live

56:56

now rivalry also service structure of

56:58

the air and city of in

57:01

that way by your psychiatry ist

57:03

every one you trusted your family

57:05

and then whoever your family said

57:07

you to to help you actually

57:09

get to. Yet. Every I'm

57:11

Hazards olds in your life. I'm.

57:14

Sorry going on your leg ethically more. I

57:16

would rather to live in a one by.

57:19

Six. Foot space and wall behind our

57:21

oil. It as the hype is what it.

57:24

That. Be in society. So. After

57:26

his arrest at the Bolland Residents,

57:28

Daniel was arraigned and sent to

57:30

a juvenile facility. Where. He remained

57:32

until October nineteen eighty seven when

57:34

his mom eleanor more and a

57:37

dilemma. I got the go till

57:39

att that the door tiller. I.

57:41

Don't know what any of this mean. Bring it

57:43

on. Oh. Okay sir,

57:45

when his mom ella know and

57:47

more real mortgage their home to

57:49

pay for the ten thousand dollar

57:52

bail. So. His mom bail them out.

57:54

October Eighty Seven. So. Hopefully.

57:56

this would have been the end of

57:58

the story that This is

58:01

from Oxygen. On November 16, 1987, less than a month after

58:03

being released on bail, the now 17-year-old Daniel

58:09

broke into the home of

58:11

Andrew and Priscilla Gustafson, a

58:13

young couple who moved to

58:15

Townsend five years prior. He

58:18

stole multiple items from the home, including

58:20

a cordless phone and a cable box,

58:23

according to court documents. And

58:25

here I'm going to give us a big old

58:27

trigger warning because it gets pretty

58:29

dark. Okay, so the part

58:31

where I was like, wow, I'm surprised it has

58:33

escalated more. Now we're getting to the escalation. We're

58:36

getting to the escalation. Good. I'm

58:38

glad I'm holding my cat and she's gazing at me

58:40

lovingly while you tell me these horrific things. Yeah.

58:43

Hold on to that feeling. So a couple weeks

58:46

later, after he initially broke into the home,

58:49

on December 1st, 1987, yep,

58:55

1987, 33-year-old Priscilla Gustafson

58:58

picked up her son William, who was

59:00

five years old, from a

59:02

babysitter around 1 p.m. She

59:05

returned to her home where Daniel

59:07

had broken in for the second time. And

59:10

she didn't know it at that point that he'd

59:12

broken in before? I

59:14

think they knew that he broke in the first

59:16

time. I

59:19

think they knew that someone broke

59:22

in. I don't think they knew

59:24

it was him or else he

59:26

would have been detained, probably. So

59:29

she returned to her home.

59:31

Daniel later told investigators that

59:33

he normally would have left

59:35

the Gustafson residence upon hearing

59:37

someone come back to the

59:39

house. But this time

59:41

he decided not to leave. Instead,

59:46

he confronted Priscilla, he

59:48

tied her up, and by

59:51

the way, Priscilla was several months

59:53

pregnant at this time. And

59:55

had a five-year-old child. And

59:58

a seven-year-old child who we'll get to. So

1:00:00

she's pregnant with her third child. So

1:00:03

he tied her to the bed in the

1:00:06

primary bedroom and locked five-year-old

1:00:08

William in the closet. He

1:00:10

then raped Priscilla before

1:00:13

shooting her in the head twice with

1:00:15

a gun that he stole from his

1:00:17

neighbor, Raymond Pindell. After

1:00:20

murdering Priscilla, Daniel drowned

1:00:23

William in the upstairs bathtub.

1:00:26

And then he was going to leave the home, but

1:00:29

at the time he was going

1:00:31

to leave, seven-year-old Abigail returned home

1:00:33

from school. No. So

1:00:36

he then took Abigail

1:00:38

and drowned her in the

1:00:40

downstairs bathroom. He annihilated

1:00:43

the entire family. Except

1:00:45

the dad. She also

1:00:47

reportedly suffered blunt force trauma, which

1:00:49

suggested that she was struggling,

1:00:53

fighting back. And her

1:00:55

eighth birthday was the next week.

1:00:58

Oh my God. I know I

1:01:00

am. Lucy! I'm sorry. I

1:01:02

don't like it. Tori! Tori!

1:01:05

Tori. Okay. We're through

1:01:07

the worst part. Andrew

1:01:11

Gustafson, so the husband, the father of these

1:01:13

children, called the police

1:01:15

when he came home from work around

1:01:18

5.30 that evening, at which point he

1:01:20

found Priscilla's bloodied remains in the primary

1:01:22

bedroom. He told the

1:01:24

LA Times in 1990, quote, I was

1:01:27

too afraid of going to look for

1:01:29

my children because I was afraid I'd

1:01:31

find them dead. It was so shocking

1:01:33

and unbelievable. I screamed. I wailed. Ugh,

1:01:36

gosh, that's so gross. This poor family.

1:01:38

I know. I can't

1:01:40

even fathom what this man, the

1:01:42

grief that this man experienced. Well,

1:01:46

that Daniel inflicted that this husband,

1:01:48

I mean. Yeah. You're

1:01:50

coming home from work. No one's got a cell phone.

1:01:52

No one's tried to reach you. You have

1:01:55

no idea what you're coming home

1:01:57

to. You're just discovering the scene as

1:01:59

it was. several hours earlier. I mean,

1:02:02

I know that like human beings

1:02:04

are incredible and that we can

1:02:07

truly overcome unfathomable things, but you

1:02:09

just don't recover fully

1:02:12

from something like that. No, no,

1:02:14

no, I might find you might

1:02:16

find a way to like survive

1:02:19

and continue living. Maybe

1:02:21

you are never fucking the same.

1:02:23

If you're lucky, you find a way to

1:02:25

continue living. But

1:02:28

like, you're, it's just you're never the same.

1:02:30

It's your life is over, but your life

1:02:32

as you knew it is done. It's annihilated.

1:02:34

I can't even go there. So

1:02:38

the cops immediately suspected Daniel LaPlante,

1:02:41

probably, especially because

1:02:45

there was a report of an earlier break in.

1:02:48

And they had him pegged as like a weirdo

1:02:50

who hung out in people's houses. Mm

1:02:53

hmm. And I'm assuming this was also

1:02:55

local. Yeah, this is all.

1:02:58

Yeah. Yeah. So the cops named him

1:03:00

as a suspect in a press conference the

1:03:02

day after the murders. So December 2, the

1:03:05

next day on December 3, Townsend

1:03:08

resident, Lynn McGovern reportedly came

1:03:10

home to her own home,

1:03:13

pulled her car in the driveway parked in the

1:03:15

garage. But then she

1:03:17

felt such a strong feeling of

1:03:19

discomfort. She didn't really know why

1:03:22

that she pulled her car out of the

1:03:24

garage and got out of her car. Yep.

1:03:28

Wow. Good for her uneasy for

1:03:31

some reason that she's pulling into

1:03:33

the driveway into the garage, that she pulled

1:03:35

back out into the driveway, it flagged down

1:03:37

a police officer and asked him to escort

1:03:39

her into her house. She

1:03:42

just felt like something was wrong. When

1:03:44

they entered her home, Daniel, who

1:03:47

was in her home, jumped out

1:03:49

of a window and ran into the woods. So

1:03:52

like maybe she saw like the window was open,

1:03:54

or maybe she had heard about the gusts of

1:03:56

sin murders, you know, all of

1:03:58

these things. Who knows what put it through. triggered that

1:04:00

unease but that's some pretty incredible

1:04:03

like I'm sticking to my

1:04:05

gut. Yep. Yep. So Daniel jumps

1:04:07

out of her home, runs of

1:04:09

the woods. Soon after that he

1:04:12

forced another local resident named Pam

1:04:14

Makalah. My god this is a

1:04:16

spree! It's a fucking spree. He

1:04:19

forced her into her car but

1:04:21

then he escaped again when Pam jumped

1:04:23

out of her own vehicle. So he

1:04:26

like pushed her in, presumably

1:04:28

tried to get her to drive him

1:04:30

somewhere. She left. Yeah she's like fuck

1:04:32

that I'm bailing. Yeah. Then he bailed

1:04:34

and escaped again. Finally cops found him

1:04:37

hiding behind a trash can in

1:04:39

nearby Ayers, Massachusetts. So

1:04:43

he's finally arrested. Following Daniel's arrest,

1:04:45

Frank Bowen expressed anger that the

1:04:47

teen was released in the first

1:04:49

place. He told the

1:04:51

Lowell Sun quote, if Daniel LaPlante does

1:04:54

not get convicted and gets out again,

1:04:56

I will personally kill him. Yeah

1:04:59

I mean I kind of can't blame him for feeling

1:05:01

that way at this point. No. Not

1:05:03

after what he did to that fucking

1:05:05

family. No. As

1:05:07

Frank explained to the paper, he and his

1:05:10

daughters lived in perpetual fear of Daniel and

1:05:12

had vacated their home following their encounter with

1:05:14

him. They fully moved out. Yeah

1:05:17

they can't live there anymore. They're too

1:05:19

scared. Quote, you can't imagine what kind

1:05:21

of fear we have been living in.

1:05:23

He is mentally insane. There is no

1:05:25

question about it. And now I am

1:05:27

financially broke and emotionally disturbed and trying

1:05:29

to put my life together again. Well

1:05:32

and imagine the guilt of this father

1:05:34

whose kids came to him originally and

1:05:36

were like, again

1:05:38

I understand. It's like we were playing with the

1:05:41

Ouija board and now there's like something weird happening in our house

1:05:43

and he didn't believe it. Which

1:05:45

you can't blame him for not believing that

1:05:48

story. But I'm certain

1:05:50

that I can only imagine as a

1:05:52

parent you feel some type of way

1:05:55

about like I didn't listen to my

1:05:57

kids and now this has escalated and we

1:05:59

don't. feel safe and I'm going to go

1:06:01

as hard as possible to make sure that

1:06:04

they are safe forever because I fucked up

1:06:06

once and I'm not fucking up again. And

1:06:09

just imagining thinking

1:06:11

about what could have happened

1:06:13

to his daughter. Right. Yeah.

1:06:17

Well, and I just like, I don't think

1:06:19

pulling a wrench and a hatchet on

1:06:21

a family of three is like, okay,

1:06:24

you posted Bond, we'll see you later.

1:06:26

Right? After living in their walls for

1:06:29

the better part of a year. Yeah. He

1:06:31

was a juvenile. So he

1:06:33

was a minor, which I'm sure had an

1:06:36

effect on his quote

1:06:39

unquote sentencing. He was also

1:06:41

only out on bail because

1:06:43

the murders happened so quickly

1:06:45

after he got

1:06:47

out, you know? It's just

1:06:50

such a systemic failure because he needs, if

1:06:52

we knew he needed help before that. Yeah.

1:06:56

Okay. And that shit needed help after

1:06:58

that. And he was

1:07:00

a risk to himself and others from

1:07:03

that moment on. And that should have been

1:07:05

taken seriously and he should have been given

1:07:07

proper psychiatric support so

1:07:09

that he could actually recover

1:07:11

and be safe to

1:07:14

himself and others in

1:07:16

his community. And that was not taken

1:07:18

seriously at all. He

1:07:20

got out on bail. He killed,

1:07:22

he annihilated an entire family, including

1:07:24

a pregnant woman. Yeah.

1:07:28

I can't. So while this will

1:07:30

make you feel a little bit better, following a trial

1:07:32

in 1988, Daniel was

1:07:35

convicted of all three murders in the

1:07:37

Gustafson family slayings and sentenced to life

1:07:39

in prison. In

1:07:41

2017, he was up for resentencing

1:07:43

after a new Massachusetts state law

1:07:46

went into effect stating that juvenile

1:07:48

sentence to life should be given

1:07:50

the chance to reenter society. The

1:07:52

chance. So he

1:07:54

gave a speech to the court about how sorry

1:07:56

he was and he went on and on about

1:07:58

how he. deprived,

1:08:02

you know, the kids of turning six

1:08:05

and eight and the child, the unborn

1:08:07

child of taking its first breath and

1:08:10

blah, blah, blah. But

1:08:13

psychiatrist Fabian Sala said that

1:08:15

Daniel showed a quote, no

1:08:17

empathy and continued to minimize

1:08:19

his behaviors. Yeah, you

1:08:21

can't ignore that. Yeah,

1:08:24

he remains behind bars in the

1:08:26

Massachusetts Correctional Institution in Norfolk, and

1:08:29

there is a picture of him

1:08:32

as of 2017, I think. Oh,

1:08:34

so he's still alive. Oh,

1:08:36

he's still alive. Yeah. That's

1:08:38

him, the bald guy. Yeah.

1:08:41

Ooh. Yeah. Nope.

1:08:44

Nope. As

1:08:46

for Daniel's victims, Tina

1:08:49

Bowen has since forgiven him and

1:08:51

doesn't hold any ill feelings towards

1:08:53

him. Kathy, however, still

1:08:55

can't sleep in the dark and is

1:08:57

counting down the days until Daniel dies.

1:09:00

Priscilla. Can't blame her. Oh my God, I

1:09:02

smell burning fur. He got too close. Ray!

1:09:07

Priscilla's sister, Christine

1:09:09

Morgan, testified that her sister wouldn't want Daniel

1:09:11

to see the light of day. Additionally,

1:09:14

Andrew Gustafson's second wife, Carol Gustafson,

1:09:16

said that Andrew was quote, plagued

1:09:19

by nightmares of his family's murder

1:09:21

until he died from cancer in

1:09:23

2014. Oh

1:09:25

God. Thank you, Lucy,

1:09:28

for this uplifting case. Yeah. Seriously,

1:09:30

Cory. Yeah. I mean,

1:09:33

the human part of me really

1:09:35

can see that Daniel is a

1:09:37

victim here too. Oh, for sure.

1:09:40

But it's just

1:09:43

so violent and so

1:09:45

fucking creepy that

1:09:48

he was...like, where were the adults?

1:09:51

Yeah. Behind the ones abusing him. The

1:09:54

fact that nobody stepped in, he was a 16

1:09:56

or 17 year old living in the walls of

1:09:59

another family's home. Yeah,

1:10:02

I just I just

1:10:04

feel like all of this could have

1:10:06

been avoided if literally

1:10:08

the system as a whole had taken

1:10:11

this as seriously as it needed

1:10:13

to be taken. Yeah, and there

1:10:15

would have been so much avoided

1:10:18

loss of life and Daniel

1:10:21

himself could have had a fucking fighting

1:10:24

chance of being

1:10:26

able to be free and be

1:10:29

well and be safe. Yeah, and

1:10:31

and instead, he was not safe.

1:10:34

Certainly not for other people. And all of

1:10:36

this devastation happened. It's just really hard to

1:10:38

wrap your head around that and how like

1:10:41

one person suffering going untreated

1:10:43

and unchecked and uncared for

1:10:45

can cause these waves of

1:10:48

devastation across the entire community. I

1:10:52

mean, Josh, you know that better than

1:10:54

anybody at this point, given your line

1:10:56

of work. Yeah. It's like

1:10:58

honestly, running to this it like

1:11:00

this seems like shit keys would have done. It's

1:11:03

like keys coded. Yeah.

1:11:05

And the way that it escalated it like

1:11:07

it's had he not been caught like who

1:11:09

knows what could have happened. It's

1:11:12

so inhuman and shocking

1:11:14

drowning to young children.

1:11:16

That is a very

1:11:18

particular way of killing somebody. Like

1:11:21

you have to be so cold

1:11:23

blooded. Well, yeah, I mean,

1:11:26

disconnected from your own humanity and

1:11:28

it. Yeah. Knowing Daniel's

1:11:30

background. Of course he

1:11:32

was. How could

1:11:35

you possibly connect with your own humanity when all

1:11:37

the people who are supposed to protect you have betrayed you in

1:11:39

the most vulnerable way? I

1:11:42

mean, like what what choice do you really have?

1:11:44

If all you've learned is

1:11:46

violence, you're going to perpetuate violence. Like it's

1:11:48

just kind of the way it works. Yeah.

1:11:52

And I'm not saying that to like generalize those

1:11:54

who are abused. I am

1:11:57

saying that to say that this is a way to protect people. This

1:12:00

is a common, you know,

1:12:02

hurt people, hurt people is like, you know,

1:12:04

a phrase, quote unquote, for a reason. It's

1:12:09

just this is such a stark representation

1:12:11

of exactly that kind of shit.

1:12:14

But to end

1:12:16

on, I guess, I don't know if we call

1:12:19

it a lighter note, but if you look at

1:12:21

the picture that I have labeled Gustafson, so the

1:12:23

picture of Priscilla and her two kids, it

1:12:26

looks like they're sitting down to Thanksgiving dinner. It's

1:12:29

a very Thanksgiving-ish set up, but they

1:12:31

just look so happy. And

1:12:33

that little girl looks exactly like her

1:12:35

mother. She looks

1:12:37

like Kirsten Dunst. She looks like

1:12:40

Kirsten Dunst and what's-her-face

1:12:42

who was married to Heath Ledger? Michelle

1:12:45

Williams. Michelle Williams. Just

1:12:47

a little bit like Gweneth Paltrow. She's a beautiful

1:12:49

little girl. But

1:12:52

yeah, they just seemed like such a

1:12:54

happy, sweet family. And they were

1:12:56

blindsided by this fucking

1:12:59

tragedy. And this was supposed

1:13:01

to be a lighter note. Lucy, look

1:13:04

at this happy family right before they got

1:13:06

their lover. Look at these now-it's

1:13:08

these people who used to be

1:13:10

so happy. Let's just pause and

1:13:12

remember this nice Thanksgiving

1:13:14

they had one time and never again.

1:13:19

Oh my God. Okay. Sure.

1:13:21

Okay. It's a sweet thing. Never

1:13:23

eulogize me. Yeah.

1:13:26

Lucy, you're fired from speaking

1:13:29

at me and Josh's joy

1:13:31

funeral because I can't die

1:13:33

without him. The last

1:13:35

time I spoke at a eulogy, I

1:13:37

incorporated the word boner. It's

1:13:40

got a good laugh. Who's was that? Jessica's.

1:13:43

Jessica's? Yeah. That's accurate.

1:13:46

I did not sneak in boner. The

1:13:49

French word for happiness is boner. Boner.

1:13:52

And the

1:13:55

accent wasn't great in French class

1:13:57

with that one. just

1:14:00

said boner. Well, love that. She

1:14:03

blazed her own trail. That's what

1:14:05

I knew. Okay. Well, um,

1:14:07

you did a really great job.

1:14:10

Thank you. On that. Thanks.

1:14:13

Let's take a quick wellness break

1:14:15

and then come back with my

1:14:17

case, which is much less devastating.

1:14:20

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1:14:25

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1:14:28

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1:14:30

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1:14:32

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1:14:36

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1:14:38

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1:14:40

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1:14:53

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1:14:57

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1:15:02

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1:15:05

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giving Trina Like

1:23:03

an episode of frogging with the stars over

1:23:05

here, okay We

1:23:08

kind of touched on this earlier, but like

1:23:10

modern media has been on an ever-escalating Parasocial

1:23:13

trajectory which is something even

1:23:15

we the three of us Having

1:23:18

this conversation for all to hear

1:23:20

it's something we've experienced but never

1:23:22

like this I mean the closest

1:23:24

I've certainly come is like my wedding crasher,

1:23:26

but I haven't been like Stalked

1:23:29

in my home yet, and you

1:23:31

know, sorry, as you know, yeah I

1:23:33

know if you know, it'll check out a ductwork

1:23:35

took the Bowens the better part of the

1:23:37

year to figure that out. Please stop That's

1:23:41

very mean it real. I'm too

1:23:43

drunk for this. He's been with you this whole time Watching

1:23:49

you Peep-peep-ooper

1:23:54

paper people eater I

1:24:00

hate you guys. This all just really very

1:24:02

much gets under my skin. It all fucking

1:24:05

escalates. We're all like addicted

1:24:07

to some kind of media celebrity

1:24:10

Whatever and if you're like unwell,

1:24:12

then it can escalate

1:24:15

pretty quickly It's

1:24:17

just it's just it's just creepy and then

1:24:20

add the element of people like living in

1:24:22

your walls or Behind

1:24:24

your toilet or in your floorboards. I just

1:24:27

I just can't it could be anywhere

1:24:29

They're like the borrowers but like full-size.

1:24:31

Well, and it's like Yes,

1:24:33

and these incidents are so

1:24:35

much at the core of a lot of our fears

1:24:39

and like that's why they contribute

1:24:41

to so many urban legends like

1:24:43

think about the college girl She's

1:24:45

coming back to her dorm She sees her roommate like

1:24:47

fucking somebody and ignores it and then goes to sleep

1:24:49

and then wakes up to like a bloody message

1:24:51

on the wall Saying aren't you

1:24:53

glad you didn't turn on the light? Like that was

1:24:55

an urban legend that we heard around the campfire or

1:24:57

like oh my god The guy in

1:24:59

a truck that chases you down flashing his lights and

1:25:01

you think he's chasing you but actually he's trying to

1:25:03

ward you There's someone in the backseat. Yeah, or

1:25:06

like humans can lick hands too

1:25:08

like the dog story It's the

1:25:11

invasion of a space that you think is

1:25:13

safe such as your fucking home Your

1:25:15

home your car like have you checked the children

1:25:17

the call is coming from inside the house Like

1:25:19

it just sucks with me, right

1:25:22

and then add Celebrity like we kind

1:25:24

of touched on earlier celebrities

1:25:27

are so visible all the time and

1:25:30

Literally propped up as an object

1:25:33

to obsess over we all do it And

1:25:35

they agree and then you're made to think

1:25:37

that you have access to them, especially when

1:25:39

I know that yeah Yes,

1:25:42

and like that's how they

1:25:45

make their money. I mean we if we're being

1:25:47

really honest in this Episode

1:25:49

like that's also part of how podcasters

1:25:51

make their money and for the most

1:25:53

part We're very lucky because like the

1:25:56

intimacies of bonds that we do form

1:25:58

with people who appreciate and

1:26:00

love the shows that we're making are

1:26:03

often really lovely and great. And you

1:26:05

know it's very rare that we will stumble

1:26:08

upon a listener who has any kind

1:26:10

of ill intent at all. But

1:26:13

we're not at the level

1:26:15

of celebrity that some of these folks

1:26:17

that we're about to talk to about are

1:26:20

slash were. And it's

1:26:22

just it's just really unsettling

1:26:24

and it's also like this is how a

1:26:26

lot of celebrities make their money so it's

1:26:29

not that much of a surprise that they've

1:26:31

been targeted on so many

1:26:33

occasions by some kind of sinister form

1:26:35

of home invasion specifically here, frogging. I've

1:26:37

been on the yucky end of a

1:26:39

few of these like parasocial relationships gone

1:26:42

wrong and even at

1:26:44

BravoCon I had to keep reminding myself

1:26:46

like oh I don't actually know these

1:26:48

people like I can't just walk up

1:26:50

to them. It's a

1:26:52

strange thing and to your point like we

1:26:54

prop open the door to like pull in

1:26:56

a bill and then expect them

1:26:59

not to kick the door open. Right and

1:27:01

that's you know that's on us and we

1:27:03

have to be mindful of our behavior and

1:27:05

also how we engage what kind of boundaries

1:27:07

that we set. And I also

1:27:10

think that there is an element of

1:27:12

privilege for folks in our position specifically

1:27:14

to even be able to set those

1:27:16

boundaries and there are certainly

1:27:18

a lot of people much more

1:27:20

in the public eye than we are who

1:27:23

kind of don't have that option anymore. Like

1:27:25

there is a level of celebrity that you

1:27:27

can reach where those boundaries are

1:27:29

very hard to maintain and that's the territory

1:27:31

that we're getting into with the

1:27:33

stories that I'm gonna go over today. So first I'm gonna

1:27:36

talk about legendary pop icon

1:27:38

George Michael. Oh

1:27:40

my boyfriend. I

1:27:43

know. Now teach the children who were

1:27:46

born before us and Josh,

1:27:48

shocking. And Josh.

1:27:51

George Michael was a founding member before

1:27:54

and after. AJ and BJ. George

1:28:01

Michael was a founding member of a

1:28:03

UK pop group called Wham! And if

1:28:05

you've ever heard that song, Last Christmas

1:28:07

I gave you my heart. That's a

1:28:09

Wham! Jam. Thank

1:28:12

you ma'am. Okay. Because that

1:28:15

is what I'm going with because

1:28:17

we are assaulted with it every

1:28:19

holiday season. It does like, it

1:28:21

knows no age. It knows

1:28:23

no limit. It's in every target, every Pier

1:28:26

one imports. You're not going to ever escape

1:28:29

that song. I feel like you can

1:28:31

escape other Wham! songs. You can't escape

1:28:33

that one. That one's frogging in your

1:28:35

brain. It's not true. No, that's fair. It

1:28:37

lives rent free. Yep. People

1:28:40

who have not heard of George Michael, like

1:28:42

don't go to that as your, I don't

1:28:44

know, I'm speaking to the children. Starting point.

1:28:47

I know, but I want them to do

1:28:49

better in their research into who we're talking

1:28:51

about. That's on them. I would also point

1:28:53

the youngers to George Michael singing

1:28:59

Faith. We'll get to

1:29:01

it. Careless Whisperer. I

1:29:04

can't. I'm never going to fucking

1:29:07

dance again. So that's

1:29:10

why I'm with an explanation point, which is

1:29:12

very important, very pivotal to the branding. Yes, I'm

1:29:14

drunk. So no, I can't pronounce exclamation point, but

1:29:16

thank you so much for clocking that. This

1:29:19

group produced extreme earworm hits in

1:29:21

the early and mid 80s, mostly

1:29:23

big with the... I'm burping. Okay.

1:29:26

Mostly big with the teens at the time. They

1:29:29

were a huge success. But eventually

1:29:31

George got the itch to make music that

1:29:34

catered more to an adult audience and ended

1:29:36

things amicably with Andrew Ridgely, the

1:29:38

other WAM founder in 1986. And

1:29:40

it was, quote, the most amicable split

1:29:42

in pop music history. Yeah,

1:29:44

they usually don't end well. And

1:29:46

I would be remiss not

1:29:49

to show my love for the

1:29:51

Limp Bizkit cover, which

1:29:53

was my first introduction to George

1:29:55

Michael. And I Am not

1:29:57

ashamed to say it. So Good. Was

1:30:00

aimed for. I mean I prefer the original

1:30:02

but the that a better one is kind

1:30:04

of fun to like rage to in her

1:30:06

car. I also the lime

1:30:08

wire downloads was like a little bit like

1:30:10

blake. Rocky at the Deities

1:30:12

to I'm just Today but. The.

1:30:16

Quality was not seller. It like

1:30:18

skip set a specific point so what

1:30:20

I. Hear it on the

1:30:22

radio or like playing it in my head. I like

1:30:24

include the skip. I love that so was that

1:30:26

like on it? So. George

1:30:29

Michael was like we set, a

1:30:31

queer icon, unfortunately pushed into coming

1:30:33

out, and Ninety Ninety Eight under

1:30:35

extremely silly and frankly predatory circumstances.

1:30:38

I. Put this kind of in the same

1:30:40

on the loop bucket. As

1:30:42

like you all know hi feel about

1:30:45

Paul Reubens. and I feel like Paul

1:30:47

Reubens was wronged forgetting like. Indecent.

1:30:49

Exposure trial and over again often

1:30:52

and jerk off Theater? Sorry. Oh,

1:30:54

really. so like the way that

1:30:56

George Michael was out. It. Was.

1:30:59

Under similar leave socket

1:31:01

he. Circumstances.

1:31:03

Where he was arrested in Beverly

1:31:05

Hills, California. For quote, engaging in a

1:31:07

lewd act in. A public restroom or

1:31:10

the lewd act in question. Was.

1:31:12

The result of a sting operation a

1:31:14

like he was in a bathroom that

1:31:16

may or may not I don't even

1:31:19

really know have been known for cruising

1:31:21

with. Like there was yet there you

1:31:23

go. So. Like it was already hard. It

1:31:25

is. By. Leaves. Guess.

1:31:28

So. Essentially here here's what he said

1:31:31

about it and Mtv interview. He said

1:31:33

quote I got followed into the restroom

1:31:35

and then this cop who I didn't

1:31:37

know was a cop. Obviously he starts

1:31:39

playing this game was Isaac is called

1:31:41

I'll show you mine. You show me yours.

1:31:44

And then when you. Show me yours. I'm going to Nyc

1:31:46

you like I've been. Arrest you. And so he

1:31:48

says, if so was waving their genitalia

1:31:50

at you. You don't automatically assume that

1:31:52

they're an officer of the ones I've

1:31:54

never been able to turned out of.

1:31:56

Free meal. If one of. A.

1:32:00

And are specified I'd power

1:32:02

the I. Have

1:32:04

ever? I just feel like shit like

1:32:06

this should not be legal. It shouldn't

1:32:09

be illegal toward sexual release us to

1:32:11

be legal toward of folks buying drugs

1:32:13

like I'm sorry I am not okay

1:32:16

with this. I think this is bullshit

1:32:18

and this incident because when you get

1:32:20

arrested that ends up going into public

1:32:22

record he's out it now publicly so.

1:32:25

The. Cop. Offers. The

1:32:27

also you mind you, Show me. Yours.

1:32:30

Yours reciprocates. The. Penis

1:32:32

showing. This guy did the

1:32:34

cop arrest them? Okay, Say

1:32:37

he put too much sais

1:32:39

in the shower. I.

1:32:41

Use it was that was here ppp

1:32:44

per. Bp.

1:32:46

Oil. but you know what the

1:32:48

as a good for him but

1:32:50

he's suddenly being arrested. He pleaded

1:32:52

no contest, he pays and eight

1:32:54

hundred ten dollar fine. He said

1:32:56

the eighty hours of community service

1:32:58

or like the most severe consequences

1:33:00

is how he is essentially violently

1:33:02

outed by the police and it's

1:33:04

really fucked up that adoption the

1:33:06

lead on his behalf. the eighties,

1:33:08

eighties or nineties. Id a sorry

1:33:10

nice idea but still we're still

1:33:12

like reeling from the backlash of

1:33:14

the height of the A's. Anneke

1:33:16

yeah we're not there yet you don't

1:33:18

wanna we are not a me know

1:33:21

when I the I was going again

1:33:23

or will anyway attorney circumstances. Anyway,

1:33:25

I'm just really fucking pissed about

1:33:27

that so we had to cover

1:33:29

it so hilariously. George Michael takes

1:33:31

the whole shit show in pretty

1:33:34

amazing strangers. Michael is fucking incredible

1:33:36

and shortly after he releases a

1:33:38

music video for his song called

1:33:40

Outside which ah, satirize the whole

1:33:42

bathroom break wagging operation featuring men

1:33:44

dress up as cops make out

1:33:46

with each other. What's up with

1:33:48

him but his my Ss and

1:33:50

Ss. And as a result of

1:33:52

this music video, the arresting officer

1:33:54

that fucking. Wrecked. George Michael

1:33:56

into with actually showing him his

1:33:58

six filed suit. George Michael

1:34:00

for slander, mockery and. Emotional

1:34:02

distress, What'll

1:34:05

another? Way below

1:34:07

zero. Nine. Years a

1:34:10

snowflake little bit slick. Go fuck

1:34:12

yourself ssssss The court of inevitably

1:34:14

ruled that like if you're a

1:34:17

public official performing as thing, you

1:34:19

can not claim damages for. Emotional

1:34:22

Distress Now by your through

1:34:24

your cases. You're the one and

1:34:26

lagged decade George in the first. The

1:34:28

way he plays agreed. Agreed.

1:34:30

So George Michael would say very successful. I

1:34:32

mean I would say a lot of this.

1:34:35

Launched. His career even further into the

1:34:37

Stratosphere. His se racked up. Hundreds

1:34:40

of millions and album sales and

1:34:42

like being outed, did not do

1:34:44

too much to hurt his position

1:34:46

as a total sex symbol. And

1:34:49

icon, it really does broaden the pool.

1:34:51

Oh yeah, women and men could both

1:34:53

quite. Openly. Thirst for

1:34:55

him and we'd my thirst. I.

1:34:58

There's a. Thirst for the one earring.

1:35:01

Yeah. He wants to grammy three Brit

1:35:03

awards, has thirteen number one singles. He did

1:35:05

break. And. That. All.

1:35:08

Of the celebrity desire to come with being targeted

1:35:10

by. Dick. Wagging police officers obviously. So

1:35:12

in two thousand four he starts to

1:35:14

get. Strange. emails, Somehow.

1:35:18

This isn't that weird as it's like okay,

1:35:20

he has an email address that fans could

1:35:22

write to and some people get weird. Yeah,

1:35:24

it's not that. Somehow. A fan

1:35:26

had obtained his private email. Address.

1:35:29

Not the one managed by seem. Not.

1:35:32

The public one his horse, little

1:35:35

one. an email after email

1:35:37

of disturbing content. Is

1:35:39

like sent to him. From an unknown source, he

1:35:41

has no idea where this is coming from. and the.

1:35:43

Specific. Content of the emails wasn't

1:35:45

release. I think it's really bad

1:35:48

as. It was intense.

1:35:50

it off that when he forwarded these

1:35:52

emails to the authorities, the police came.

1:35:54

Became. Very concerned as even to go

1:35:56

as far as to say they were afraid.

1:35:59

Of a quote john. Lennon situation.

1:36:01

Oh my own. And so I have

1:36:03

to imagine these emails had to

1:36:05

be on questionably awful for the

1:36:08

same fucking system that. Is

1:36:10

super fucking homophobic and trapped

1:36:12

and outage. George Michael. Can't

1:36:14

even look away and is like worried

1:36:16

about his safety rule. These emails continued

1:36:18

for days until one night while George's

1:36:20

at home he's at his house. He

1:36:22

has a friend over there hang and

1:36:24

out the drinking wine. George.

1:36:27

Stopped short. In. The middle

1:36:29

of a sentence. Because. He could

1:36:31

have sworn he heard someone.

1:36:34

Saying. His name is that wasn't

1:36:36

his friend that was sitting. Right across

1:36:38

from him. Blue. In his

1:36:40

house. Oh, he was so convinced

1:36:42

of this that he went to

1:36:44

investigate the sound. Of

1:36:47

it makes my fucking skin crawl A What?

1:36:49

He finds his war that he. Bargained. For.

1:36:53

So. As it turns out, For.

1:36:56

At least four months. A.

1:36:58

Woman named Lucy Novak with

1:37:00

age twenty nine no not

1:37:02

me have been had been

1:37:04

was. You best. Have. Been

1:37:06

creeping into Michael's home. George Michael's

1:37:09

home. Then. Later his office

1:37:11

and later his rural cottage at.

1:37:13

Going on Tabs: Oxford shirt.

1:37:17

During these these break and

1:37:19

see had found his personal

1:37:22

information including his personal email.

1:37:25

And started to send him these two

1:37:27

brains to messages and the home of

1:37:29

her latest break and was I think

1:37:31

is The Cottage. Where. He heard

1:37:33

someone saying his name was

1:37:35

built on a slope. So.

1:37:38

Parts of the house for

1:37:40

on stilts I hill celebrities

1:37:42

windows. Me: Up. And. See

1:37:45

had a regal the her

1:37:47

way into the space between

1:37:49

like the underside of the

1:37:51

house and the floorboards of

1:37:53

the inside. And set

1:37:55

up a little cab fare.

1:37:58

Il y jesus yeah. He

1:38:00

was owner of. The ground.

1:38:03

Under the Subway when this year is

1:38:06

for four days shy and this is

1:38:08

where she was hiding with you heard

1:38:10

sounds at his home as she had

1:38:12

been under the floorboards for at least.

1:38:15

Four. Days. Oh

1:38:17

my God they're i can't

1:38:20

fucking tell tale creep job.

1:38:22

And on that fourth day,

1:38:25

Lucy Novak had started calling

1:38:27

out for Michael to move

1:38:29

him out. He cools. Down.

1:38:33

Below to look for her and to find

1:38:35

her hiding spot. I don't know she was

1:38:37

stop or she's as like wanted him to

1:38:39

find or oh woah where she would like.

1:38:42

Fall. On his head that get

1:38:44

one area and altogether. That's. Almost

1:38:46

exactly what she does. he would you

1:38:48

for her and he's like under the

1:38:50

house is like what the fuck she

1:38:52

leaps out of are hiding spot. Scares.

1:38:55

The but Jesus out of the poor bastard

1:38:57

and you know he said he describes as

1:38:59

like the most adorably British raises cloaks I

1:39:02

was out to. I was talking to one

1:39:04

of my friends one night and I thought

1:39:06

I give you my name being called out

1:39:08

and then she suddenly presented itself. Must

1:39:11

have. Weighed about

1:39:13

it. She was living in your fucking

1:39:15

for Jordan, Michael. Fit. A little

1:39:18

scream, don't need to sugar coat it.

1:39:20

Now. So we call the cops. The

1:39:23

police arrived. But. They were like. On.

1:39:25

Willing to take her into

1:39:27

custody. Because. I guess the

1:39:30

stalking laws in the Uk are somehow

1:39:32

even worse than they are the United

1:39:34

States. My daughter. Michael. Said

1:39:36

quote. The only reason they eventually took her

1:39:38

to the police station was because she punched

1:39:40

one of the ah. That's

1:39:44

what as he added assault charges against violence

1:39:46

or ah, Yeah. Otherwise, they wouldn't

1:39:48

have even bother to resting her. And

1:39:50

which is simply Madame Le were

1:39:52

an effect on Earth Elemental. It

1:39:55

is at Mc know that does not

1:39:57

have the power that the were less.

1:39:59

As said. I'm not hiding

1:40:01

behind that the where the Sept.

1:40:04

General Them. The. Cell Assess.

1:40:07

I'm sorry Douglas Apps. Can

1:40:09

tell etti way. Called tests.

1:40:14

Over whether you address me in front of the

1:40:16

hell. With set up. Some.

1:40:19

Tests done. With

1:40:22

what do you address me in front of The Frogger. Out

1:40:25

of. That

1:40:28

So this. Arrests.

1:40:31

Did not keep her away. Lucy Novak

1:40:33

still return to the have multiple time

1:40:35

frame star. Came back a few times.

1:40:38

Michael said that a few months later

1:40:40

they found her masturbating in the corner

1:40:42

of my God is. About

1:40:45

her, the wage ah started out as

1:40:47

well blaze. Soreness

1:40:51

Like a long time Watson Mercy

1:40:53

Novak out wildlife an amateur Jack.

1:40:55

Regard for the quarter of his

1:40:57

garden like a August Two thousand

1:40:59

that. Her eyes are

1:41:02

like Breen would suggest that of nice

1:41:04

may have such as if you don't

1:41:06

let your name is what are your

1:41:08

possible lucy know back I've been out

1:41:10

every I. Have

1:41:13

a. Very. Upset

1:41:15

and the this opportunity and thirty very

1:41:17

to sell have you not a day

1:41:20

or whatever passes? Lose the doorbell. See

1:41:22

Scary up under the floorboards again

1:41:24

And member. Masturbating in the corner

1:41:26

of the. Ah, I'm

1:41:30

trying to lose plan. I clearly no act.

1:41:32

And minimize it if I would be

1:41:34

like schemed l or away slowly delighted

1:41:37

if I found someone masturbating him about