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for the love of home. What's

0:37

up with y'all? My name is Preston Parrot. Jackie

0:40

Hill Parrot. So this episode is going to

0:42

be a little different. We're not going to

0:44

come in with the usual intro of, it's

0:46

the saints and aint's. Only

0:49

because this is kind of like, you

0:51

know, BOW TV ish-ish. You

0:53

know what I'm saying? Have you ever watched my

0:55

YouTube channel BOW TV or my apologetic channel where

0:57

I engage with other religions, other faith

0:59

background groups or whatever? This is going to

1:01

be one of those episodes. To

1:03

give you a little context and background of

1:05

why we're doing this episode, man, we had

1:08

somebody that we respect in the face. I believe

1:10

one of the giants in the faith, pastor

1:12

Dr. Eric Mason, on talking about

1:15

his latest book, Urban Apologetics.

1:18

And in that conversation, Dr. Eric

1:21

Mason, he, you know, he mentioned the

1:23

SDA church. And some of the things

1:25

that he felt like was problematic in

1:27

their theology. When he did that,

1:30

you know, there was a bunch of

1:32

response videos and rightfully so.

1:34

You know, the SDA church, a lot

1:36

of them wasn't happy about what he

1:39

said. But we didn't take time in the episode

1:41

to kind of dig deeper and go deeper in

1:44

what we feel like our theological differences are. And

1:46

so before we even get started, I just want

1:48

to first start off saying that if you ever

1:51

watched my channel, watch me engage with other religions,

1:54

which is the reason why I just wrote a book. It's not to plug it,

1:56

but to say, man, the way we give and

1:58

when we talk about our differences. matter to the Lord.

2:00

And so this is by no means a way

2:03

to bash or to try

2:05

to tear down somebody's faith to be mean or

2:08

to be cruel in any way. But this is

2:10

an attempt to try to

2:12

figure out truth right

2:15

for the sake of the gospel.

2:17

And so we have Dr. Eric

2:19

Mason back with us. We have

2:21

my beautiful wife back with us. She's

2:24

probably the most quiet y'all will ever

2:26

see Jackie on this podcast. So Jackie

2:28

has questions. She'll she'll she'll

2:30

she'll ask questions. We

2:40

also have a special guest. We

2:43

call them Brother Thunder. He is

2:45

coming to us by

2:47

way of Jamaica right now. And

2:50

I'll kind of pass the mic to

2:53

Dr. Eric Mason. Now he'll probably teach

2:55

you more about Dr. me Brother Thunder

2:58

and give you a little more back history. Well,

3:01

thank you all for having the boldness to

3:04

do this. I think it's

3:07

important to have based on

3:09

the pushback. I get it. And so I think

3:11

that not only do FDA

3:13

deserve a response, but I

3:15

think other believers deserve a

3:17

response to kind of the

3:19

brief part

3:22

of the video that you all posted that was

3:24

in the in the

3:26

real and on your channels. So

3:29

in light of that, I'm in a group with

3:31

a group of people that are

3:33

former FDA and in various

3:39

like in various forms. So just to give

3:41

you some background, like a few

3:43

years ago, I didn't know that I

3:46

didn't know anything about FDA beyond

3:49

Saturday worship and

3:51

the food that

3:54

doctor restrictions. And so

3:56

we were doing the first Urban apologetics had

3:58

a young lady, no disrespect. she's passed

4:00

away at this time. Her name

4:02

is Nefah, and she was in

4:04

the urban apologetics community, and so

4:06

her stuff on the comedic community,

4:09

Engage in Hebrew Israelites, plus

4:11

her being like a lawyer, she's an

4:13

animal. Like her stuff was like legit

4:16

unreal, like her ability

4:18

to do apologetics. And so I didn't know anything, and

4:21

so the big and long story short, some people

4:23

was like, you know she SDL? I'm like, no,

4:25

but so? And they was like, what

4:28

you mean so? Do you know? And so I

4:30

got a call and I thought, they started sending me

4:33

information. I'm like, what? And

4:35

so I'm like, I call her, I talk

4:37

to her, it was

4:39

respectful, but it was clear that there

4:42

was heterodoxy and heresy that

4:45

was, that

4:48

was literally within the framework of

4:50

our conversation. And so what

4:52

ended up happening is

4:55

this is what we felt, we

4:57

felt that based

4:59

on now, and Reverend Elsie

5:03

will let you know some of that stuff,

5:05

Thunder, Brother Thunder, is like

5:07

their philosophy is to come in by

5:10

stealth. And so literally,

5:14

we would have never known until

5:17

some of the stuff came out, and then once

5:19

it came out, then they started doing a bunch

5:21

of videos on their fundamental doctrines, which is on

5:24

her page still. And so

5:27

Elsie has three volumes on

5:30

his theology, understanding,

5:33

and framework for Seventh Day

5:35

Adventist. He also just recently

5:37

brought out a SDA

5:40

for dummies, and that's not a way to call

5:42

anybody a dummy, it's just in the dummies kind

5:44

of series. You know what I'm saying? And so

5:46

I wanted to give him a chance just to

5:48

give a brief kind of overview of who he

5:50

is, his background, and what led him

5:52

to come out of the SDA church. And then from

5:54

there, if y'all don't mind, I would love for us

5:56

to kind of dig into his chapter a little bit,

5:58

and I'll be right back. It doesn't mean we're reading

6:01

the chapter, but what I want to do is just

6:03

go over some of the documents and just have you

6:05

respond. And it'd be dope, is that as y'all hear

6:07

stuff, do you know or haven't heard,

6:09

to like jump in with some questions. Yeah, yeah.

6:12

And before he say something, I just say

6:14

one thing too. I would

6:16

imagine that there are a bunch of people

6:19

who would look at this and say,

6:21

man, why aren't there any SDA people

6:24

here representing the SDA position? Because that

6:26

was one of the things that we

6:28

saw over and over, get some SDA people on, just

6:32

to let you guys know that me and Eric Mason, we

6:34

reached out to multiple SDA people and asked them

6:37

to come on this platform to talk about their

6:39

differences. Some of the most

6:41

popular ones, when they did response videos

6:43

to our video, if you go back

6:45

on the Instagram, you will see me

6:47

commenting, like in the comments saying, come

6:49

on with the parents, we'd love to

6:51

have a respectful conversation with you. And

6:53

all of them declined. And so this

6:55

is- I didn't respond. They either declined

6:57

or respond. So this is the reason

6:59

why we kind of went with this method. And so just

7:02

letting you know. So if it's somebody out there who want to

7:04

come back on here, we can have a part three later

7:07

on. So just letting y'all know that. So

7:09

yeah, brother Thunder, if you- Blessings to all

7:11

of you, Dr. Mason. Thank you again for

7:14

the opportunity to have written

7:16

the chapter in your book, as well as

7:18

the Paris for inviting me to be here

7:20

with them to discuss

7:22

some of the differences and the

7:25

conclusions we draw on 70 Adventism.

7:28

I've been the 70 Adventist for 10

7:31

years. And out of those 10,

7:34

I was a conference evangelist

7:36

for four years. And

7:38

the conference evangelist in 70 Adventism is a

7:40

big deal. So it's not like

7:42

I was an insignificant small fry, a

7:45

regular average Joe Schmoe. I

7:48

was a conference evangelist employed by the

7:51

conference that I lived in to

7:55

do cruises, preaching, teaching all

7:57

over the island and- I'm

8:01

invited overseas as well to

8:03

preach, bring people into Adventism,

8:05

defend the Adventist faith.

8:07

I was also a theology student

8:10

studying at their flagship institution here

8:12

in Jamaica, Northern Caribbean University. I

8:15

was in my third year of

8:17

pastoral studies when I began to

8:19

discover fatal flaws with SDA

8:22

theology. And I was not

8:24

an average student either. I was one of

8:26

the best students they

8:28

had, straight A students, know the doctrines

8:31

in and out, was

8:33

preaching them every weekend and the

8:36

whole nine yards. And so

8:38

just to put that out there

8:40

where my SDA credentials are concerned

8:43

and anybody who wants to look

8:46

more into my experience in the Adventism,

8:48

I have tons of materials, interviews, written

8:50

and video that I would have done

8:53

online that they can

8:55

watch, they can read and

8:57

ascertain the facts for themselves.

9:01

And so Adventism

9:03

is different from mainstream Christ

9:05

and Christianity in a variety

9:08

of ways. And

9:10

when one reads the chapter

9:12

that I wrote in Dr. Eric Mason's book, you

9:14

will actually see that. In

9:17

the Seventh-day Adventism, we see clearly

9:20

the way it came about was

9:22

not in the better light.

9:24

It arose out of the

9:26

Millerite movement of the 1800s, the

9:28

Great Awakening in America,

9:32

influenced by his preaching that Christ was coming

9:34

between 1843 through to 1844 after multiple

9:40

failed prophecies that did not happen. And

9:43

so October 22,

9:45

1844, when the Great

9:47

Disappointment occurred, there was a

9:49

group that continued to believe

9:51

that something did happen, but they

9:53

simply had the wrong event. And

9:56

the following day, October 23, an Adventist day, by

10:00

the name of Hiram Harrison, claimed

10:02

that while they were walking through a cornfield, that

10:05

he saw a vision in which heaven was

10:08

open and instead of Jesus coming

10:10

to earth, as they had believed, he

10:13

moved from the holy place of the

10:15

heavenly sanctuary, to the most holy place,

10:18

to begin a work of investigative

10:20

judgment. And so that was

10:23

a face-saving vision that salvaged the

10:25

Adventist church. And then when, two

10:28

months after the disappointment in December of 1844, Ellen

10:32

White, who became the central figure

10:34

that united them, became their prophet,

10:37

endorsed Hiram Harrison's vision and

10:40

then began this system we

10:42

now know today as Seventh

10:44

Day Adventism. And there's

10:46

a whole lot that I'm not able to get

10:48

into, but just to give you a brief backdrop

10:51

with regards to how this movement

10:54

started. And then we

10:56

can discuss the various theological differences that

10:58

they have with the wider

11:00

body of Christ. Yeah, so that's very

11:02

important. What sparked you to leave though?

11:04

What was like the thing that

11:06

kind of was the lunch party? Pornography

11:11

is a not so secret sin that is

11:13

waging war against the souls of men, women

11:15

and children all over this country. Pornography

11:18

destroys marriages, it ensnares children, it

11:20

is driving even people into shame

11:23

and isolation. Porn is kind of

11:25

like a certain kind of poison

11:28

or cancer in the church, spread through all its ranks. It's

11:30

a poison to our world leading to the

11:33

dehumanization of image bearers who are made in

11:35

the image of God so they deserve honor

11:37

and value and dignity. It

11:39

leads to sexual abuse and even exploitation of

11:41

innocence and it's even used to groom children,

11:44

which is highly problematic. So I think it's

11:46

time for us to take a stand against

11:48

our point of our culture and defend our

11:50

families, our children and ourselves in the glory

11:52

of God from its destructive effects. Did you

11:54

know that 56% of divorcees state of

11:57

pornography was a leading cause or a major

11:59

factor? are leading to their divorce. 47% of

12:01

Christian families say that porn is a problem

12:03

even in their home right now and

12:06

90% of children from the ages of 8 to 16

12:08

have a new pornography online usually while doing

12:11

homework. The good news is we have an

12:13

alliedness battle and it's called Covenant Eyes. I

12:15

started watching porn when I was 11 years

12:17

old and I think if I had Covenant

12:19

Eyes back then to help me be accountable

12:21

not only to the Lord but also to

12:23

a community of people that helped me accountable

12:26

I probably wouldn't have fell into that trap so

12:28

easily. So I think Covenant Eyes is

12:30

a huge tool to help us to remain faithful to

12:32

the Lord. So go to

12:34

covenanteyes.com and be sure to use

12:36

the promo code PERIES. You can

12:38

protect your family today again by

12:40

going to covenanteyes.com using the promo

12:43

code PERIES as P-E-R-R-Y-S for 30

12:45

days free or by clicking the link

12:47

in the show notes. Yeah

12:50

so while I was studying up

12:52

there I began to study biblical

12:55

hermeneutics and New Testament Greek and

12:58

aspects of church history and I became

13:00

very proficient in those and

13:02

so the more I started to apply

13:05

the hermeneutical principles I was learning like

13:08

contextual reading of scripture, taking into

13:10

account the author, the

13:12

audience, the grammar, the language,

13:14

the socio-economic context and all

13:16

of that instead of the

13:18

widely used SBA method of

13:20

interpretation which is why proof texting

13:23

where context is ignored

13:25

and proof texts are employed

13:27

indiscriminately to formulate

13:30

and defend their doctrines and so when I

13:33

started to do that as

13:35

well as became very proficient in New Testament

13:37

Greek then I started to

13:39

realize that the doctrine could not stand

13:41

to biblical and historical

13:43

scrutiny and I then

13:45

began to ask testing

13:48

questions in class to

13:50

the lecturers and the professors and they

13:53

were uncomfortable answering I began

13:55

to raise certain objections to the

13:57

teachings until it became a huge

14:00

problem with me being there because

14:02

prior to that, I was again,

14:04

the conference evangelist and adventist defender.

14:07

So now as I learned all of these

14:09

different things, I started to challenge the teachings

14:12

based on what Herman

14:14

Eudice was unveiling, what New Testament

14:17

Greek was unveiling. And as

14:19

a result of that, I had

14:21

no choice but to leave the system

14:23

because when I asked

14:25

about these things and I had various

14:27

meetings with the lecturers and the entire

14:29

School of Religion and Theology board, they

14:33

were simply trying to get me to

14:35

ignore these things that I was seeing, don't

14:38

share my doubts of finance with

14:40

anyone and just focus on

14:42

having a good career in that church. They

14:45

would tell me things like, just preach what the

14:47

church teaches. The church is going to pay you well.

14:49

You have such a great future ahead of you. So

14:52

many of the guys here wish they were in

14:54

your position. So just ignore these things and

14:57

just continue to preach and teach the

14:59

Adventist doctrines because that's what you're going to be paid

15:01

for. And I

15:04

in good conscience and integrity could not

15:06

do that. And

15:08

so six months after that,

15:10

this began September 2015. By

15:14

February to April, I had no choice but

15:16

to leave. And by the way, people from

15:18

the church were sending me to school, sending

15:20

me to get my degree

15:22

to become an R.D. and S.D. pastor. So

15:25

I had to eventually part

15:27

ways with all of that, have

15:30

various talks and discussions

15:32

and interviews with leaders, presidents,

15:34

secretaries, big wigs in the

15:36

S.D. church here in Jamaica. And

15:39

everyone I went to, every meet and every

15:41

discussion, it is the same thing. Just focus

15:44

on the financial benefits, the

15:46

social status and social aspects of things

15:49

and ignore all that you're seeing. And

15:53

I in good conscience could not do that. And

15:55

so that's why I left. Yeah. So,

15:58

I mean, you had a question. I'm going to

16:00

lead into the witness your part. Yeah,

16:03

yeah, yeah. So, I

16:05

have some experience, quite a bit

16:07

experience, you know, giving the gospel

16:09

and having conversations with Jehovah's Witnesses,

16:11

some LDS and stuff like that. And

16:14

one of the things that I've seen while

16:17

engaging in conversation with them is that the

16:19

doctrine seems very close

16:22

to Orthodox Christianity. When you start to

16:24

ask the right questions, you see that

16:26

there is some clear differences

16:28

in the fundamental beliefs

16:31

and principles of Orthodox Christianity. And

16:33

so, I guess my question with

16:36

the SDA, I'm not as familiar

16:38

with even talking and having conversations

16:40

with seven day Adventists, what are the key,

16:43

foundationally sensual differences between Orthodox Christianity

16:46

and the SDA Church that a

16:48

lot of people might not be

16:50

aware of? Yeah, there are a

16:53

lot of them. Adventists

16:56

use the same lingo,

16:58

the same terminology, but

17:01

they generally mean different things in

17:03

Adventist realm. And so,

17:06

they have beliefs that are similar to

17:08

the Trinity, salvation by

17:10

grace through faith and a

17:13

whole lot of other things. But when

17:15

you get into their

17:18

overarching worldview, they filter everything

17:20

through what they call the

17:22

great controversy worldview. And

17:25

a number of death scholars,

17:27

the GC President and the

17:31

wide spectrum of Adventism, this

17:33

is how they see the world, the

17:35

great controversy worldview. And

17:37

that is defined by the writings

17:39

of LNG White. Elsie, Elsie, real

17:41

quick, before we get there, I

17:44

want you to define it. Could that help? If

17:48

you could backtrack just a little

17:50

bit and define why, to Lead

17:54

in a person's question real well.

17:56

how did LNG White? Ah,

18:02

Authority get established. That's number

18:04

one, Number two, Does

18:07

does go be here in a lot

18:09

of comments rights that nobody goes by

18:11

that and we've of all says dance

18:13

Bomb How would you connect? Their.

18:17

Historic come back soon to Lng White

18:19

in the beginning. To now. Is

18:22

is still affective and then let's go

18:24

into that as a really important a

18:26

great controversy is to me is dick

18:28

is crazy in it is I'm a

18:30

really goes against everything and i see

18:33

if you not fan it's fundamentally gives

18:35

the methane gas of souls arm if

18:37

you could end it's and and the

18:39

fourth least if you to remembered as

18:42

the as enormous do they steal for

18:44

to the great controversies as a standard

18:46

are doctrines it off as the it's

18:48

urges must believe yeah those or. Gotcha.

18:51

Yeah, good friends since. Sue.

18:55

Ellen. Ways. Is.

18:57

Seen as. As

18:59

and it's profited. I'm

19:02

either the departed from have

19:04

to look december. Everything

19:07

years old. And she

19:09

begins to have. To sort of

19:11

vision and she was the center of

19:13

the that unified. I. Live.

19:16

Band of this delusion that. Of

19:19

Miller and Lula to be cheating the some

19:21

of the after the search. and

19:23

from the that time and throttled land

19:25

the plane that suit with how hard

19:27

it. Over two thousand

19:29

visit the drains. Horizons

19:31

arm authoritative for them.

19:34

Are they still officially holds her

19:36

rising? that speaking with prophetic authority.

19:39

Or her she was used

19:41

her visions and explanations of

19:43

doctrine than. A cultural

19:46

way of life, etc were

19:48

what. He meant it. Adventists,

19:51

Doctrine. Lies. Or

19:53

theology et cetera. And

19:56

so so Illinois is is is.

19:59

that Joseph Smith of Mormonism,

20:02

the Mohammed of Islam,

20:05

and Charles Russell of

20:07

the Jehovah's Witnesses. So what those

20:09

guys are for their religion, that's

20:12

what Ellen White is for

20:14

simply Adventism. When they were

20:16

studying something, she was

20:18

totally ignorant and clueless of scripture and

20:21

its teachings. She could not understand scripture,

20:24

but she would be listening from a distance. And

20:26

when they came out of an on-path where they

20:28

just could not go further, they were confused about

20:30

something, she would break all kind

20:33

of vision. And she

20:35

claims that clear explanation of whatever it is

20:37

they were studying were given to her. She

20:40

then would explain it to them, and

20:43

those explanations would become cemented

20:46

Adventist doctrines and teachings.

20:50

And she claims that this

20:53

was given not only for that time, but

20:55

as it were in a cosmic speed. From

20:58

that time straight through to the second Advent

21:00

of Christ, and they inhabit

21:03

the New Jerusalem. From

21:07

their very beginning through to today, Ellen

21:09

White continues to be the

21:12

voice, she continues to

21:14

be the center around which

21:16

Adventism revolves. So their doctrines,

21:19

their church policy, their practices,

21:22

university courses, dealing with the Adventist

21:24

Church and its doctrines, their

21:26

Sabbath school study guides, the

21:29

whole nine letters, their health message,

21:31

their global evangelism.

21:34

Through and through everything is grounded on Ellen

21:36

White and her writings. Let me ask

21:38

you this. So, yes Doc? Yeah, based on

21:40

that, based on what you're saying, do

21:46

all Adventists know

21:48

and understand that LNG

21:50

White still

21:52

influences the framework of their doctrinal

21:55

foundation to this day? All of

21:57

them should, and those who

21:59

claimed that she does not, they are

22:01

not being truthful. I've

22:04

been just how the

22:06

28 fundamental beliefs book that

22:09

explain and justify their

22:11

doctrines. And fundamental

22:13

belief number 18 of that is

22:16

based on Ellen White. The

22:18

gift of prophecy, the spirit of prophecy is

22:21

a reference to Ellen White. And in

22:23

that, they make it absolutely clear that

22:26

they believe she had the gift of

22:29

prophecy and her

22:31

writings speak with prophetic authority and

22:34

they provide for the church comfort,

22:36

guidance, correction, et cetera. Every

22:39

five years when there's a general conference

22:41

session and that is the highest body

22:43

in their church, they

22:46

issue a statement of confidence in the writings

22:48

of Ellen White. And

22:50

they make it clear that they

22:53

continue to have confidence in her writing

22:56

and her writings correct

22:58

inaccurate interpretations of scripture. So

23:00

she's a divine interpreter of

23:03

scripture. Also before

23:05

when it's baptized the Seventh Day Adventist

23:07

member, there are 12 vows

23:09

that one has to take in front of the

23:12

church in the form of questions.

23:15

And one of those vows is

23:17

the pledge of faith and belief

23:19

in Ellen White's prophetic ministry and

23:22

her writings and pledging to read them

23:25

et cetera. It

23:28

can be hard reading God's word, especially when

23:30

life get hectic. Kids get out the room,

23:32

start running around throwing stuff, breaking their arms

23:34

and stuff like that. And

23:36

so this is the reason why D'Wel has created

23:38

a resource for us to listen to God's word

23:40

on the go as we do life. So we

23:42

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23:45

still doing our busy life. With the D'Wel Bible

23:47

app, you can listen to God's word read by

23:49

people who love the Bible just as much as

23:51

you do. D'Wel is an audio Bible that puts

23:53

listening first. It's a convenient app that allows you

23:55

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23:57

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24:02

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dwellbible.com slash Perry for 25% off today. So

25:05

in the comments, because this is very important

25:07

because I bet you've crossed the Houston Institute,

25:10

is the Bible here and

25:14

LNG White's writings here? Is

25:19

LNG White's writings here, the Bible here, or

25:21

are they here? When you

25:23

look at people, they have to sit there, both of

25:25

her, they teach about her, she would

25:27

be above the Bible because

25:30

she is the interpreter of the Bible. Now

25:32

hold on bro, you know these comments are

25:34

going to be lit up. You

25:37

got to prove that. So give us some proof.

25:40

Give us one quick proof. I want to move

25:42

on to the other doctrine, but I think the

25:44

foundation of LNG White is important, don't you agree?

25:46

Yes. Give

25:49

us a solid example

25:51

across the entire global

25:54

denomination or movement, faith

25:56

movement, because it's not a denomination.

26:00

like that proves that like

26:03

I'm telling you in the comments people

26:05

are gonna tell you not in our church that's

26:08

not true here you because you know that right

26:10

you know they're gonna say that so from your

26:12

perspective how would you know I know

26:14

how would you encourage

26:17

let me read that official

26:19

doctor's signal otherwise and

26:21

then I read the statement of confidence

26:24

and there are tons

26:26

of other they result quotes

26:28

from their official sources across

26:31

adventism that I have documented in

26:33

my book heading into my

26:36

site volume one and has been some

26:38

may be the one I recently published

26:40

yeah the scriptures testify that

26:42

one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is

26:44

prophecy this is an identifying

26:46

mark of the remnant church and

26:49

we believe it was manifested in the

26:51

ministry of energy white horizon

26:54

speak with prophetic authority

26:58

and provide confidence guidance and

27:00

culture and correction to the

27:02

church they also make

27:04

clear that the Bible is the standard

27:06

language all teaching and experience must be

27:08

Texas now just a thought where

27:12

I can speak with prophetic authority in the

27:14

same way that Isaiah speak with

27:16

prophetic authority the entire district just speak

27:19

with prophetic authority in fact

27:21

when you see the exposition of

27:23

Ellen White's writings I realized what

27:25

she said about herself how she

27:28

conceptualized her gifts and

27:30

fallen she makes it clear that the

27:33

Holy Spirit is both the author of Scripture

27:35

as well as of her writings leadership

27:42

leaders continue to argue this

27:47

so basically you're saying that

27:50

she hurt their officially they would

27:52

include her writing as the sia

27:54

puta says 2nd

27:57

Timothy 3 16

27:59

All Scripture is in. Oh My. God. this issue

28:01

because it's funny when you read a statement

28:03

is the same language us against them at

28:05

the three sixteen. Seven

28:08

months that for the you

28:10

isn't far off. Lands analyzed

28:13

right? Not yet another quote

28:15

from their highest decision making.

28:17

And Sundays. And within

28:20

twenty fifth seems that is

28:22

still there. Twenty

28:25

twenty one is the same

28:27

reaffirmation. December

28:29

twenty fifth in general and

28:31

recession and and has announced

28:33

that. We pay

28:35

for what we have real from our

28:37

ambition for going up and eleven arises.

28:41

High rises I'd be found in

28:43

higher. Price

28:45

and very. Prominent

28:48

rephrasing the bible see other lift

28:50

the normative parts of from from.

28:53

On far off. From

28:55

author and informative and others. Derived.

28:58

From tradition, human Reason

29:00

for Sunday's Sermon on

29:02

Modern Soldier. And

29:04

a dessert Sierra you. Went.

29:09

For a beginner confident you

29:11

will see that he ran

29:13

into the for me. Out

29:16

and name as Geico.

29:18

Reason. I said,

29:20

I'm any than a good reading

29:23

this form and she's a month

29:25

picture. Here. Man. Divinely

29:28

and easy. Her eyes and five

29:30

designed. For

29:33

me and with. That.

29:40

Are. Kind.

29:46

Of is the thoughts about Was

29:48

ever disagrees with Seventh Day Adventists

29:50

options and theology. Said. srx

29:52

and is done by

29:55

not communities as disease

29:57

and little grammatical historical

29:59

canonical Christological redemptive historical interpretation of

30:01

the text. No, it's done by her

30:03

prophetic visions that Interpret the Bible directly

30:05

based on her being under the spirit

30:08

influence. Hmm, right? Yeah, okay So in

30:10

light of that right because we got

30:12

to move I want to move to

30:14

the next one because I know you

30:16

know Your time and all of that,

30:18

but we wanted to get through these

30:20

three things. I want to please jump

30:23

in Yeah, this is so important Christology.

30:25

That's what I was about to act next.

30:27

Yeah, like the great controversy fundamentally

30:31

is about Christology

30:36

The study understanding who Jesus is So

30:39

can you can you succinctly? walk

30:43

us through the great

30:45

controversy and And

30:49

then let us know whether or not the great

30:51

controversy is still applied to the

30:53

person of Christ today. Yeah Absolutely

30:55

through and through the great controversy

30:57

worldview and teachings is what the

31:00

prime At the tip of

31:02

one of their scholars Herbert W. Douglas, but

31:04

several others as well It

31:07

is Center around

31:10

which everything resolved it was the

31:13

theory of everything that exists everything

31:15

has pulls all the doctrines their

31:17

lifestyle their mission everything together The

31:20

Adventist pioneers were not Trinitarian.

31:22

They were arias and semi-arias

31:25

They profusely rejected the doctrine of the

31:28

Trinity and the DSD of Christ

31:31

I thought in the great controversy motive when

31:33

you study a long way to write in

31:35

and what the Adventist church believes is

31:38

that Jesus was my to

31:40

the archangel leader

31:42

of the angels of heaven Satan

31:46

was also an archangel and

31:48

also a leader of the angels in heaven

31:52

So eventually God

31:54

promoted that is not the father Promoted

31:57

Jesus to be equal with himself

32:00

and he was in office and

32:02

invited him into his council

32:04

and fellowship and services. Now

32:08

Satan on Lucifer was also

32:10

a poor equal archangel with Jesus,

32:14

the jealous of Jesus' promotion

32:16

because he thought that he was deserving

32:19

of that promotion more or better

32:21

than Jesus. And

32:23

so being jealous of Jesus' promotion to

32:25

do his end-life status, he

32:28

then began to travel the

32:31

heaven and the unfallen world, as I've

32:33

been just teaching beliefs, and

32:36

began to slander and challenge God's

32:38

character and authority, stating

32:40

that his laws are unjust,

32:42

they can't be kept from

32:44

the whole nine yards. He was

32:46

able to see one third of angels

32:48

with him, and this

32:50

now began this great controversy between

32:53

Christ and Satan. This is

32:55

also one of their fundamental

32:57

doctrinal beliefs. So Brother Thunder, can

32:59

I ask you a question? Okay,

33:03

okay, okay, okay. You got my mind going,

33:05

you got my mind going. But

33:09

be that I was made. So

33:12

now, God and

33:14

Christ are engaged in

33:16

an arm-rattling match with

33:19

Satan's great

33:21

controversy, where God now

33:23

has to prove that he

33:25

is self, that he

33:27

is loving, and that his law can

33:30

be just. Remember, the central

33:32

of his great controversy is the Ten

33:34

Commandments Law, and when you

33:36

go further into that, it is

33:38

the power. And

33:40

so God and Satan are in

33:42

an arm-rattling match, so

33:44

that God can prove his justness,

33:46

the justice of his law and his

33:48

sovereignty, and that this now

33:51

will ultimately be done through seven-day

33:54

agendas, ultimately, keeping the law

33:56

perfectly, to vindicate the character

33:58

of God. within this

34:00

very controversy paradigm, the

34:03

main reason Jesus came to earth

34:06

to be admired and subjected to all of

34:08

this and to die, etc., is to

34:10

actually vindicate and defend the law

34:12

of God from the

34:15

accusations of Satan. He

34:18

was the perfect example. He

34:20

proved that the law can be kept

34:22

for now as then just empowered by

34:24

the Holy Spirit. Here to

34:27

do the same and ultimately

34:29

vindicate God's law from the

34:31

attacks and the accusations. In

34:35

a nutshell what this controversy

34:37

is and this continues to

34:39

be the overarching world view as

34:42

the plan after the theology

34:44

it explains the paradoxes, the

34:48

ethical and the ten commanded laws, and

34:52

their health message, soul sleep,

34:55

the nature of humans, evangelism,

34:57

their view of room of

34:59

the publicism and Protestant Christianity,

35:02

their esophologies, the

35:04

doctrine of being the truly exclusive

35:06

remnant church, the only true church

35:08

on earth, everything

35:10

is defined and explained through

35:12

this great controversy lens on

35:14

the world view. Man

35:17

you just said a mouthful bro. Thank

35:19

you for the background and the

35:21

education man. A lot of

35:24

this stuff is even new to me. A

35:26

lot of what

35:28

you just said sounds a lot like

35:30

the Jehovah's Witness faith that I'm pretty

35:32

familiar with. They also believe that Jesus

35:34

is reincarnated

35:37

as Michael the archangel

35:40

and when I had

35:42

conversations with them they clearly believe

35:44

that Jesus is not the eternal

35:46

God, that he is a creative being

35:49

Michael the archangel. But when we

35:51

put this online and it was all

35:53

in the comments there were multiple people

35:55

who believe or said they believe

35:57

that who are FDA. They

36:00

said they believe that Jesus was the eternal

36:02

God and that he was not that

36:05

he was referred to as Michael the arch angel But

36:08

at the same time like that was just one of

36:10

his names, but he is the eternal God the same

36:12

thing that Orthodox Christians believe

36:14

and so can you explain like

36:17

is it them just clearly having

36:19

a misunderstanding of the Historical background

36:21

of the of the sea church

36:23

that you just gave Like

36:26

why do you think well it to me it

36:28

seems like so many Christians don't mean so

36:30

many SEAs don't believe that or

36:32

don't Understand the church history in that

36:34

way. Yeah Does that make

36:37

sense? Yeah, a lot of what

36:39

what the house in the church does

36:41

is that? because

36:45

for them These

36:55

days especially since the 1950s evangelical

36:59

dialogues with dr. Wasmar there

37:02

more Leave

37:07

until they cover up a lot

37:09

of these teachings with

37:12

proof sex from scripture and verbiage

37:16

of orthodoxy And

37:19

so they believe that exact theology

37:21

both Michael the arch angel in

37:23

fact the Jehovah's Witnesses Will

37:25

it came around in 1879? They

37:28

got that theology from them to

37:30

happen Wow, I didn't

37:32

know that when it is powder chocolate

37:35

Russell And the

37:37

siva Timothy

37:45

and it is to be faithful

37:49

to the original teaching but because I'm

37:51

citizen now start to get a lot

37:53

of class and They

37:56

want to appear to be more off

37:58

the dock just like everybody else they

38:01

have piled on a lot of

38:05

verbiage and protective orthodoxy to make

38:07

it look like we are orthodox

38:09

and we've always been that way.

38:12

And so that is why you see

38:14

they'll run through scripture to

38:16

prove that the angel of the

38:18

Lord in the Old Testament is Michael

38:21

the archangel and all

38:23

of these different things, that Michael is the

38:25

only archangel and it simply means the truth

38:27

of the angels and the list goes on.

38:29

So what they've done, they still have the

38:31

original teachings but they pile on a

38:33

lot of things that make it look awful.

38:37

And there are some people who don't

38:39

seem to know that. So let me

38:41

ask you this, I know one of

38:43

the ways in which the Jehovah's Witnesses

38:46

tried to justify that Jesus is Michael

38:48

the archangel because in

38:50

1950 they published a New World

38:52

Translation that

38:54

changed the original Greek text like John 1 that

38:56

says, in the beginning was the Word and the

38:58

Word was with God and the Word was a

39:00

God, not the God. He was

39:02

in the beginning with God, through him all

39:05

other things were created, right? And so they

39:07

changed the person of Christ there. They also,

39:10

highly I know misinterpreted scripture is where it says

39:12

that, you know, that Jesus, and Thessalonians I think

39:14

it says that Jesus will descend with the voice

39:17

of an archangel and the sound of a trumpet.

39:19

It doesn't say he is an archangel, you say

39:21

he will have the voice of an archangel, right?

39:23

And so these are passages that

39:25

I'll talk to Jehovah's Witnesses about. But

39:28

the Seven-Day events is they don't have

39:30

another translation of the Bible or I

39:32

wouldn't even call it, I wouldn't call the New World Translation

39:34

respectfully a translation. I

39:36

think it's another, I think it's a converted version of the Bible.

39:39

But the SCA people, you know, the SCA

39:41

church they had, they read the Bible. And

39:44

so how do they justify Jesus not being

39:46

the eternal God but a creative being, Michael

39:48

the archangel? How do they, how

39:50

do they come to that understanding? of

40:00

the five of them. Great. Okay.

40:02

The Clare Word Bible. You can look it up online. Wow.

40:06

The Clare Word Bible. I'm going to look it up now. It

40:09

is published by an official

40:11

organ of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, the Review

40:13

and Herald

40:18

Publishing Association. And it

40:21

is also used in the Seventh

40:23

Day Adventist Church, although not widely.

40:27

It is sold in Exodus books, taught

40:29

all over the world as a Bible

40:32

under the section of the Bible. Wow.

40:35

And when you read the Clare

40:37

Word version, the Clare Word Bible,

40:39

they do the very same thing that Jehovah's

40:42

Witnesses do in their Bible. And

40:45

so scripture

40:47

is a good should, reinterpreted,

40:50

distorted, to agree with Seventh

40:53

Day Adventist Church. So

40:55

are you saying that they minimize Jesus

40:57

for being the eternal God and make

41:00

Him a God? Because

41:02

I think people will hear you say that and be like, what do you mean

41:04

we do the same thing as Jehovah's Witnesses? Because

41:07

in the Bible, when it refers to Jesus being

41:09

God Almighty, it clearly says that He is not

41:11

God Almighty. Right. And

41:13

when you talk to Jehovah's Witness, they would clearly say, no,

41:15

we don't believe that Jesus is God Almighty. We

41:17

believe that He is Michael the archangel, the Son

41:19

of God, that God was the first person, the

41:21

first being that God created as a master worker to

41:24

create the heavens and the earth and all of the

41:26

things. And so when you said it does the same

41:28

thing, in which way does it does the same thing?

41:32

I just want to for clarity

41:34

say. For example, if you read in

41:36

the Clare Word Bible of Jude 9,

41:38

Michael the archangel is

41:40

referring to Jesus.

41:45

Ellen White has a lot of statements in which

41:47

she say, for example, the Lord Jesus Christ is

41:49

not the Lord God Almighty. And

41:51

this is sacrosanct teaching for us. However,

41:56

you have to understand the way their

41:59

mind works in the Bible. in terms of cognitive

42:01

dissonance and deduction

42:03

and theology, whatever it is,

42:06

is very contradictory based

42:09

on Ellen White's writings. So you

42:11

can always find potent statements that

42:13

you can claim that from this

42:15

writings that support any position that you

42:17

want to hold. There's

42:19

a growing movement in Adventism right now, a

42:22

growing Aryan and Victorianarian movement in

42:24

Seventh-day Adventism who are trying to

42:27

bring the Adventist Church back to

42:29

their historical roots, take

42:31

it home with Ellen White teachers and

42:33

with the kindness of the Adventist Church

42:35

teachers. And

42:38

so one of them who are trying to

42:41

present themselves as being

42:43

Orthodox because they have

42:46

an Orthodox language, a

42:49

military language and the

42:51

whole nine yards, they call that

42:53

Ellen White's writings are

42:56

authoritative. They are

42:59

used to filter scripture, to

43:01

interpret scripture, to understand scripture.

43:04

And they are a part of that. Every level of Aryan

43:06

too. So as you

43:08

read scripture and as you read Ellen

43:11

White's writings, you're going to

43:13

end up in this sort of confusing mess that

43:15

you have. And so yes,

43:17

you will see on their website and

43:19

a lot of their publications, they speak

43:21

highly of Jesus, they have high

43:23

Christology. Well, you actually go

43:25

down around the whole and

43:28

read Ellen White's writings and look at

43:30

their publications and what they also would

43:32

equally authoritative. You're going to

43:34

find a confusing mess with

43:37

Jesus' head in Adventism. Well, that's crazy.

43:39

That's crazy. So, man,

43:41

you pretty much did an amazing job

43:44

establishing this whole idea

43:46

of the great controversy. So

43:48

the next thing we want to

43:51

dive into is investigative judgment. And

43:54

that was a really, really good... So you sort

43:56

of got on Twitter, right? He

44:00

got like all these responses. Didn't I send it to you?

44:03

And I put it in the feed, but the guy

44:05

that was on Twitter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did

44:07

you read it? So,

44:10

so we had to take a brief

44:12

intermission, not a brief intermission, but a brief break

44:14

because Jackie was in Philadelphia, so she went to

44:17

go lay down. Yeah,

44:19

so cool. Dr. Eric Mason, what you had to

44:21

question you on the X? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

44:24

So the guy, there was a guy

44:26

on X that

44:29

did a response to me just asking questions

44:31

about different things, particularly Arkin

44:33

and Jamichael, but then also investigative

44:38

judgment. Number

44:41

one, do you believe the

44:43

investigative judgment, what is investigative judgment,

44:45

number one? And

44:47

why is it heretical? And

44:49

number three, how does it

44:52

undermine justification by faith? Okay,

44:54

wonderful. So the guy

44:56

who did that response is Tasha

44:58

Tygiston. He's Arkin D'Sasha. We

45:02

would refer to him as a neo-adventist. Answer

45:05

an Adventism, my question on YouTube. He has

45:07

a lot of videos and reaction and response

45:10

videos. Yeah. To him, so he's not a

45:12

smaller frat. He's one of the big shots

45:14

of Adventism. You watch on TV and that

45:16

kind of thing. So

45:19

when I read his response, he

45:22

did not even begin to scratch the

45:25

surface or to touch with the investigative

45:27

judgment. All he

45:29

did was support judgment

45:32

text of scripture. Scripture talks about judgment,

45:34

as Christians don't believe in judgment. We

45:37

believe in judgment. I

45:39

try to make it appear that this

45:41

is the investigative judgment. So

45:43

what is the investigative judgment of Adventism? Well,

45:46

let's go back to the beginning. October

45:48

23, 1844. Their

45:51

disillusioned, Tasha Tygiston was the

45:53

one who responded to Dr.

45:56

Eric Mason. And he pulled

45:58

a lot of judgment. judgment,

46:00

he said, from the truth, and created really

46:02

a defense on this, what the investigative

46:04

judgment was. He did

46:07

not go into the history of the doctrine

46:09

that was created, why it was created, the

46:11

state of the faith of movement, and

46:14

how it is explained and defined and

46:16

defended in Athens. He did not do

46:18

any of that. So,

46:22

let's go back to Book 2 of 23, 1844. They're

46:24

basically disappointed

46:26

that some of them are

46:28

committing suicide or pancreas things going on. He

46:31

made someone another one. And he came back and

46:33

cut up the same earth that came

46:35

before. He moved from the holy

46:40

grave of the heavenly sanctuary

46:42

to the most holy grave to

46:44

begin a work of investigative

46:47

judgment. Everybody is canceling

46:49

the house of Satan, and this is what he

46:51

says, and then developed

46:54

an entire system around

46:57

this investigative judgment doctrine.

47:00

This doctrine, by the way, is

47:03

not handled by any other

47:05

Christian church. Even

47:07

from the first century, not just today. Jews

47:11

who had read scripture, those estimates,

47:14

for hundreds of years, and he

47:16

laid forth in his weather doctrine, his place from

47:19

faith, never, never since. So,

47:21

no other Christian church subscribed

47:23

to nor derived

47:27

the investigative judgment teaching from scripture.

47:29

This is uniquely an effect on it.

47:31

It is based on the initial

47:34

vision of higher essence and

47:36

then expanded on the statement

47:39

that the prior energy might

47:41

bear promise. So, this is

47:43

what I'm talking about. The cleansing is understanding

47:45

it and extending it can only be

47:47

done with her right. What they

47:49

have done, though, is that now that they

47:52

believe it, they're going down through text of

47:54

scripture, where it talks about judgment

47:56

and that kind of thing to

47:58

proceed. This is the investigative judgment. when that

48:00

is not taken out. So here's a

48:02

quote from her as to what that is and

48:04

how it started. She

48:06

says, and I quote, attended by heavenly

48:09

angels, our great high priest enters

48:11

the Holy of Holies and there appears in the

48:13

presence of God to engage in

48:15

the last acts of administration in

48:18

behalf of man to perform the work of

48:20

investigative judgment and to make

48:22

an atonement for all who are shown

48:24

to be entitled to his benefit. So

48:28

in the great day of finalist movement and

48:30

investigative judgment, the only case is

48:32

considered are those of the perfect people of

48:34

God. The judgment of the

48:36

wicked is a distinct and separate work done

48:39

out of later time, period.

48:42

So here's something to see what this is. In

48:46

a physical inform, Jesus

48:48

started this work of investigative judgment.

48:52

He starts with the generation of Adam.

48:54

He starts with all of those who

48:56

have died, who are saved in

48:58

God. And to begin

49:00

with Adam's generation, he

49:03

manually, with piercing,

49:05

personizing eyes, goes through all of

49:08

their lives and details and

49:10

speaking years to see

49:12

if they are saved to save. If

49:15

they have one non-unconfrontal sentence, they can't

49:17

be saved. And he goes from

49:20

Adam's generation through to the

49:23

last dead saint. And then after that,

49:25

he moves on to the living. Now

49:29

during this time period, no

49:32

one knows if they are saved. Adventists

49:34

do not know if they are saved.

49:36

Wow. Well,

49:39

we believe in the only part of investigative judgment

49:41

when Jesus returns. Here's

49:44

another quote from her about

49:47

this, explaining what this is. She

49:49

says, as the book of Reccadah opened

49:52

in the judgment, the lies of all who are

49:54

believed on Jesus, they come and

49:56

review before God. Beginning

49:58

with those who first lived upon the earth. how

50:00

advocates represent the case of each successive

50:03

generation as closed with the

50:05

living. Every name

50:07

is mentioned, every case

50:09

closely investigated. Names

50:11

are accepted. This is supposedly those who

50:13

should be saved. Names

50:16

are accepted and names are rejected. When

50:19

any house since remaining upon the Book

50:21

of Record, unrepentant of and

50:23

unforgiven, their names are blotted out of the Book

50:25

of Life. And the

50:28

record of their good deeds will be

50:30

erased from the Book of God's remembrance.

50:33

Chiapaso goes on to say that

50:37

every record or

50:40

every thing is dealt with with

50:42

terrible and clactic and scrutiny. God

50:46

mind you, he still does the lives of

50:48

everyone who can believe in him. He

50:51

determines if he can eventually

50:53

save them. So in

50:55

this doctrine, no one is really

50:57

saved. You

50:59

can end up with the adventism, and

51:02

then you now are in line to

51:05

be processed through the investigative judgment.

51:08

So while this is going on now, they

51:10

also came with this adoption of sinless

51:13

perfectionism, where

51:15

you have to work to

51:18

become sinlessly perfect through

51:22

obeying the hordes and the myriad

51:24

of authentic rules, LMI rules, out

51:26

of the keeping, selling her

51:28

both stay in your tithes and becoming

51:31

a vegan and the whole nine yards

51:34

so that you may potentially pass

51:36

the investigative judgment. As

51:39

you can already hear, this already

51:41

contradicts the doctrine of justification, my

51:43

faith. Because when they

51:45

are concerned, you aren't really saved.

51:49

You can't be sure that you are saved right

51:51

now. And

51:53

the blood of Christ does not chancel your

51:55

sin. That's another thing she said as well.

51:58

Wow. Quickly. I'm

52:00

there to witness that you and

52:02

explain Christ processes processes you through

52:04

the investigative judgment and

52:06

he finishes That's when

52:09

you may possibly be saved. So first on

52:11

5 11 through 13 You

52:14

know what I'm saying? These things I've written to

52:16

you who believe on the name of the Son

52:18

of God that you may know you have eternal

52:20

life He who has a son has a life

52:23

he who does not have the son does not

52:25

have the life So basically there's no sense of

52:27

eternal security, correct? No, not at all By

52:31

the way is fundamental belief number

52:33

24 in their official doctrine of

52:35

faith That's crazy. Yeah,

52:37

when you read it, they go through

52:39

proof text of Scripture and quote

52:41

from Ellen White. Yeah Yeah,

52:45

I have a couple of just a couple more quite yeah

52:48

so What would you say

52:50

to the people who say you know? I've

52:53

ran into I'm keep giving you

52:55

know examples of other faith

52:58

groups that I've talked to just because I just

53:00

heard a lot of questions and a lot of Pushback

53:03

or whatever that you know what Charles

53:05

takes Russell tall in the 1800s. He

53:07

was just a man, right? You

53:10

know What Joseph Smith

53:13

taught in the 1800s? He was just a man what

53:15

Ellen G like for the people who

53:17

don't believe That elegy

53:19

whites writing or whatever. It's authoritative

53:22

and they don't necessarily believe in

53:24

the things that you're talking about right now How

53:27

is still being a part of the SDA

53:30

church? problematic and

53:32

dangerous To Christians

53:35

who feel like they hold to

53:37

the true foundational beliefs of

53:40

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ashley.com. Ashley, for the love of home. That's

54:20

a very good question. Some of them,

54:22

especially those who are liberal

54:24

as the VA's and those who are evangelical

54:27

in an FDA, try to do that. But

54:30

it is still problematic because even

54:32

though they may claim they don't

54:34

believe in Ellen White, they don't read her horizons, they don't

54:36

care about what she has to say. At

54:39

the same time, the very foundation of which

54:41

they stand is Ellen

54:43

White, whether it's directly

54:45

or indirectly. You

54:47

cannot escape Ellen White in the

54:49

advent of theology, worldview,

54:53

abomination and lifestyle. Yeah.

54:57

So even though they may claim to reject her

54:59

and don't pay any attention to her, what

55:03

they are embracing about the Sabbath is

55:05

Ellen White. Their

55:07

view of the price of the Trinity

55:09

is Ellen White. Their

55:11

view of dietary matters is

55:13

Ellen White. Their view of Christian

55:16

churches that were in one Sunday are

55:18

doing something wrong and are sinful and

55:20

are in the life of the marketer

55:22

piece is Ellen White. Yeah, what's crazy

55:24

is Ellen White. Yeah, what's crazy

55:26

is I see like

55:29

an ongoing thing, especially, you know, quote

55:32

unquote prophets who raised up in the 1800s

55:35

like Joseph Smith of the LDS and

55:37

you know, Charles Taze Russell of the

55:39

Jehovah's Witnesses and even William County of

55:41

Hebrew Israelism, you know, when you when

55:44

you research these

55:47

leaders because they were these faith

55:49

leaders, well, religious leaders back

55:52

then it seemed as if people held

55:54

to their their writings and their prophecies

55:57

a little more than their followers do

55:59

today. of these religions today, but it

56:01

seems as if time went on, we talked to

56:03

Jehovah's Witnesses, they would say, man, you know, Charles

56:05

S. Russell isn't our leader, he's just a man

56:08

that God used to actually start the Wash Tower

56:10

and Track Society organization, which later on became the

56:12

Jehovah's Witnesses after he died, same thing

56:14

with the LDS, yada, yada, yada. And it seems

56:16

as if, you know, my

56:18

LDS friends kind

56:23

of do the same thing with LNG White, that

56:26

in a lot of ways they kind of, I

56:28

mean, SDA, that's what I meant to say, SDA, I'm

56:31

sorry, I meant to say that. It seems

56:33

as if they don't really ascribe to

56:35

her being a

56:39

true prophet, you know, or

56:41

they might think that she's a true prophet, but

56:44

they don't really like, they say they believe in

56:46

the Bible more than her writings, right, but

56:49

my question, my next question is, when

56:51

I research other religions or whatever, I

56:54

can, you can Google or you

56:56

can like find like original copies

56:59

of Charles Taze Russell's monthly

57:01

journals when he first started to publish his

57:03

monthly journals. And so for

57:05

an SDA person, say, well, where are you getting

57:07

all this information from? Like how can

57:10

we obtain some of these things that you're saying

57:12

right now? What resources can you point them to,

57:15

to show them, you know, all of

57:18

the stuff that you said? Yeah, and

57:20

all of their, there's some free LNG

57:22

White writings, there's the LNG

57:24

White, or

57:27

the White that's

57:30

based, so please not fill there.

57:32

There are tons of websites, the

57:34

SDA archives, again,

57:36

literature that they currently use, they're

57:39

doing a quick research on their

57:41

current status

57:43

to study that. And these

57:45

are booklets that teach on a particular

57:47

doctrine for teaching, after

57:50

this teaching, or whatever, for

57:52

a quarter, so in a

57:54

three month period. And

57:56

you'll see right now, they are starting to study

57:58

the British authorities. Mmm. And

58:01

this is one church here, one church there.

58:03

This is the global church of Adventism,

58:06

and they are in almost every country on earth. Everyone

58:09

is uniformly studying the same things.

58:12

And even the those who claim that

58:15

we don't make much of her, their

58:18

church, and if they are a pastor,

58:21

they are using the SBA Sabbath School

58:23

study guide to break some offices

58:26

to teach their church this stuff. Wow. Yeah,

58:28

it's interesting. I just called... I think that's

58:30

what they currently study, the Greek controversy. Wow.

58:32

Yeah, I pulled it up just now. It's crazy. And

58:34

they have a conference called, Hit

58:37

the Mark Sabbath School. Pun intended.

58:39

Hit the Mark. Wow. Rubeese. But

58:41

last thing, man, I wanted

58:44

to discuss, I think this is, this

58:48

was disturbing to me. It

58:50

was very, very disturbing.

58:54

And that is the scapegoat theology.

58:57

Can you give us a brief synopsis of it?

58:59

The person I love to hear you interact with

59:01

it as he brings it out

59:03

to see like, what you think of it? Once

59:05

you hear it, I know you said, you know,

59:08

we were talking a few weeks ago, maybe a month ago,

59:10

you was like, man, I've been just going to bed every

59:12

night. And I'm just... Yeah, yeah, I've been... Yeah, he was

59:14

sending me stuff. He'd be... Pastor

59:17

Eric makes, he'd be sending me stuff. And I'd be... Jack would

59:19

be like, you still read? I'm like, yeah, I'm... One

59:22

night I read for like four hours straight. And I was

59:24

like, man, I'm learning. And I know some people

59:26

who probably seen me interact in the apologetic space,

59:28

you know what I'm saying? I'm talking, but right

59:30

now I'm asking questions because, you know, right now

59:32

you're seeing me as a learner because I

59:35

didn't know a lot of this stuff. And

59:38

so, yeah, yeah, I would love

59:40

to hear about the scapegoat. So,

59:42

that scapegoat theology ties in

59:45

with the investigative

59:47

judgment. So,

59:49

they believe that when

59:52

Christ would have finished his intersex

59:55

to rework in heaven, he's going to

59:57

be returning. And at that

59:59

time, though... He's going to seek and

1:00:01

to seek my advantage so they understand

1:00:03

God without a mediator while

1:00:05

he's on his way and they would have to have

1:00:07

made him a perfect man. And

1:00:10

so when he comes, he's

1:00:12

actually going to take all

1:00:14

of the sins of God's

1:00:17

people that Satan would have caused him

1:00:19

to submit and then he places them

1:00:21

on Satan who is going to

1:00:24

bear them. And so

1:00:26

let me read a quote from her

1:00:29

where she says exactly

1:00:31

this and what they know after

1:00:33

this now is they rework it in

1:00:35

Scripture. So they go to the Leviticus chapter 16 and

1:00:37

they say, see

1:00:41

one goal is for the law that was killed

1:00:43

and sacrificed, the other goal that bears

1:00:45

the sin the way Adabel is speaking.

1:00:47

So Satan is the scapegoat, he is

1:00:50

the sin bearer. So let me

1:00:52

read a quote from her and of

1:00:54

course they adhere to a lot of

1:00:56

the Jewish folklore and myths around

1:00:58

Adabel and the ancient Marys period

1:01:01

and some reformers who would

1:01:03

have made statements along that line to try

1:01:05

to justify. Well you know

1:01:07

this today though as Christians

1:01:10

thought it something just funny. You

1:01:12

will not find any Christian church that holds

1:01:14

to save me the scapegoat. When

1:01:16

they understand the

1:01:19

typology in Leviticus chapter 16 and then what

1:01:21

Scripture says in Isaiah 53, Peter

1:01:24

and many other places about Jesus and

1:01:27

the whole process of atonement. The day

1:01:29

of atonement, one goal died

1:01:31

for the sins

1:01:34

and the other on which

1:01:36

the sins were was placed was not to create

1:01:38

the removal

1:01:40

of the sins from among the people and this

1:01:42

is a beautiful picture of what Jesus

1:01:44

did as the sinless sacrifice.

1:01:47

He vicariously died for us and he's the

1:01:49

one who bears at REAMING

1:02:31

The Knowings Rock Go

1:02:37

Who in the execution of the judgment

1:02:39

must bear the penalty? The

1:02:41

people were sent away into a line of the

1:02:44

habitus never to come again into the congregation

1:02:46

of Israel So is in before of

1:02:48

a man is from the Prince of God and his people And

1:02:50

he will be blooded out from existence and

1:02:53

a final destruction of sin and the sinners

1:02:56

Wow, and this is Thomas on the grace and

1:02:58

privacy page 422 paragraph and

1:03:02

throughout their theology up to

1:03:10

As she would have read more Christian

1:03:12

authors and Orthodox authors, but

1:03:14

she did a lot of plagiarizing whom She

1:03:18

flip-flopped on this and say it

1:03:20

actually Jesus was the scapegoat The

1:03:23

Adventist Church cannot and will not accept that

1:03:27

later statement Because the

1:03:29

prior season is the scapegoat is

1:03:32

everywhere else and so

1:03:35

she couldn't predict her feelings by the

1:03:37

way They would tell

1:03:39

you not to argue it because it's Douth-scaled

1:03:42

in well-deserved So what are you

1:03:44

saying? Are you saying that SCA

1:03:50

today wildly

1:03:53

accept that Jesus is

1:03:55

not the scapegoat but

1:03:58

they stick to LNG's LNG

1:04:00

whites original statement by segment this

1:04:02

escape schedule is what you're saying

1:04:05

Absolutely. Gotcha. Wow. It does

1:04:07

not matter how many evidence

1:04:10

you present Now

1:04:12

Jesus is the scapegoat he's the sand bearer

1:04:14

the day of a torment. It was once

1:04:16

and all friend Both animals have to be

1:04:18

spotless and unblemished and

1:04:21

those goals represent one sacrifice

1:04:24

One guide and one support is ended

1:04:27

different side of the same point It

1:04:30

doesn't matter how much you present that even Colossians 2 16 and

1:04:32

17 is still clear When

1:04:35

it says don't let anyone judge you

1:04:37

on physical new honor service. These are

1:04:39

shadow things come to the substance of

1:04:42

Christ physical new

1:04:44

honor travels refer to the whole text to

1:04:46

men faith-based The

1:04:50

day of a torment is a testable.

1:04:52

Yeah, and the test makes

1:04:54

it clear that it's a shadow of

1:04:56

Christ Yeah, everything about it is

1:04:59

a shot. It is a shadow of right? They

1:05:01

would reject that What you do

1:05:04

with this people is it was an innocent? Big

1:05:07

problem. Yeah, what's on the guilty that's

1:05:09

under the blame of punishment of the

1:05:11

guilty. Yeah, that's what Jesus did They

1:05:14

were they reject everything and

1:05:16

they were going for our time I'm a man who

1:05:18

would have came during the conversation He did a video

1:05:22

Wow How

1:05:24

a solid just a penance able is

1:05:27

Satan or Jesus? Wow,

1:05:29

they go through whatever Because

1:05:33

again, they have to be true

1:05:35

to what anyway this Go

1:05:38

to not Jesus and they ignore

1:05:40

the implications of well, and it's

1:05:42

blasphemous It's it's theoretical it

1:05:45

puts Satan again like Michael

1:05:47

Archangel and Lucifer the Archangel on equal

1:05:49

for this Just a tiny Jesus that died

1:05:51

for us in on the day of

1:05:53

the tournament. The state goes has to take

1:05:56

them away Yeah There

1:06:00

is no monument to send them to

1:06:02

salvation. Feel understand that they will not

1:06:04

accept it. Wouldn't say scripture long as.

1:06:07

We're. Here to read

1:06:09

the script about what it is now. Trainwreck

1:06:11

of the Same by Royal Through yeah if

1:06:13

a my across the board they just under

1:06:15

my first dollars a year and and I

1:06:17

it's funny you know I was thinking about

1:06:19

he was even thought about. The.

1:06:23

Sabbath. And you know Sunday Worse of

1:06:25

you know. The. First will be

1:06:27

last and the last will be first you

1:06:29

know about products on producers somebody in history

1:06:31

as the ace apply to for they had

1:06:33

a week being last and this last people

1:06:35

without me the lab at a we may

1:06:37

have for have been in with yeah not

1:06:39

observe may I ask them As good as

1:06:41

I think I think the things and i

1:06:44

walked away with you know ah know sometimes

1:06:46

people can see my things like this has

1:06:48

made in over miners but is really the

1:06:50

the key foundational where employees since his of

1:06:52

the gospel to the person who cries is

1:06:54

so seriously that really being that's desert. As

1:06:56

soon as complete contradiction of you

1:06:58

know what the Bible seats is

1:07:00

Now God has revealed himself, says

1:07:02

creationist scripture and so is he

1:07:04

is Michael the Archangel A Me

1:07:06

as an eternally existed Rice said

1:07:08

as problematic Gibbs's it is. Say

1:07:10

this as a goal right? Eighteen

1:07:13

eighteen Sega Innocent. Cure life

1:07:15

Third said Da for the sins of

1:07:17

the world's it's had the sins of

1:07:19

the world for the a say same

1:07:21

did it is is is is off

1:07:23

and also how to we are saying

1:07:25

salvation is it was great to face

1:07:28

of alone None of my works right

1:07:30

and so I sincerely eve is seeing

1:07:32

that is sand as some legitimacy as

1:07:34

a Sally at the Good does he

1:07:36

know this will work May salvation a

1:07:38

sudden see fundamental you know he senses

1:07:40

and the Da school ah seedlings are

1:07:43

thousand Dixon's in the stuff. That she

1:07:45

presented in the christian faith as as well

1:07:47

as a say to those who might be

1:07:49

watching who might be you know a part

1:07:51

of the se a religion we don't wanna

1:07:53

you know to do or unfair thought has

1:07:55

video or whatever we see you guys who.

1:07:59

responds videos of the video that we

1:08:01

did and we would love to have you on and

1:08:03

have a conversation with us. If

1:08:05

there are SDA pastors, SDA,

1:08:08

you know, apologists who want to defend

1:08:10

the SDA worldview, we

1:08:13

can, you know, we can fly

1:08:15

Brother Thunder down, you know, from

1:08:17

Jamaica, get pastor Dr. Eric

1:08:19

Mason in the room and

1:08:21

fly a couple of you guys down and

1:08:23

we can have like a real respectful, dignifying

1:08:26

conversation so you can

1:08:28

have a proper chance to defend your worldview. I

1:08:30

want to extend that invitation to you. And so

1:08:32

like I said, this wasn't to tear anybody's faith

1:08:34

down, you know, Jesus is not

1:08:36

Michael the Archangel. Hebrews 1, you know, it says,

1:08:38

for which of God's angels did he ever say,

1:08:40

you are my son, today I have begotten you.

1:08:42

And again, I should be to him a father

1:08:44

and he should be to him a son. And

1:08:47

again, when he brings his first born into the

1:08:49

world, he says, let all God's angels worship him.

1:08:51

He gives his menaces, he gives his angels

1:08:53

wings and his menaces a flame of fire.

1:08:56

But of the son, he says, your throne,

1:08:58

O God is forever and ever. And the

1:09:00

scepter of your rightness is scepter of your

1:09:02

kingdom. Later on in verse 10 in that

1:09:04

passage, it says, then the father says that

1:09:06

Jesus created the heavens and the earth by

1:09:08

the work of his hands. And so we

1:09:10

see there clearly that Jesus is not Michael

1:09:12

the Archangel, but he's the eternal son of

1:09:14

God. He eternally existed with his father. He

1:09:16

has no beginning. Revelation 22 verse 12 says,

1:09:18

he's coming soon, breaking the record, pincering repay all

1:09:20

those for what they have done. For he is

1:09:23

the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the

1:09:25

end, the first and the last. And so if

1:09:27

you believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, anyway,

1:09:29

you don't believe in the true God of scripture.

1:09:31

And because of that, we want to love you.

1:09:33

We want to point you to truth and

1:09:36

lead you to the right doctrine. So if you want to have a

1:09:38

conversation with us, let us know. We would

1:09:40

love, love to have a conversation with y'all. Anything

1:09:43

you want to add? Again, this was

1:09:45

done in love and, you know, I

1:09:48

know, I don't know when this is my post,

1:09:50

but you know, I would just love to really,

1:09:54

I would, I would, I would employ

1:09:56

you to not just

1:09:58

get the. offensive because

1:10:02

I think that's a natural tendency with

1:10:04

something, particularly those of you who grew

1:10:06

up in SBA as a faith.

1:10:09

And I would encourage you to investigate what Brother

1:10:12

Elsie is saying, Brother Thunder is doing in

1:10:15

the documentation that he said, because I've seen

1:10:17

some people in the comments say, this is

1:10:19

what we believe. And so I

1:10:23

would, this

1:10:25

is too big in my mind to

1:10:28

just act like it's not

1:10:31

real. And so my

1:10:33

encouragement would be dig into it for

1:10:35

yourself, go back to this video, ask

1:10:37

your leaders some very pointed questions and

1:10:40

don't let anyone get away with brushing

1:10:44

it off but dealing with it

1:10:46

head on. Because again, the whole

1:10:48

reason why Preston put this on

1:10:51

and asked me to come on, ask Elsie to come on was to

1:10:53

be able to have a viable

1:10:55

dialogue based on the pushback that

1:10:57

happened through the video. So

1:10:59

much love to you and hope this has helped. And I just want to

1:11:02

quickly say, like I said,

1:11:04

you've probably seen me, you're probably not,

1:11:06

you've probably seen me engaging with other

1:11:08

religions. And when other religions come against

1:11:10

the Christian faith, I don't get angry.

1:11:14

I don't get mad. I don't get offended because

1:11:16

I know what I believe is true.

1:11:18

And I know it can be disheartening,

1:11:20

especially if you follow Dr. Eric Mason

1:11:22

or me and Jackie, and

1:11:25

you think that all they think our religion is wrong.

1:11:27

I know it can be offensive, but I don't think

1:11:29

that we should be offended. I think that we should

1:11:31

all want to be humble in trying to figure out

1:11:33

what the truth is. And so that's what we're trying

1:11:36

to do. We're not trying to pick on anybody. We

1:11:38

just trying to get to the bottom of what we

1:11:40

feel like the truth is. And so we wouldn't like

1:11:42

to be other videos on this. And so hopefully

1:11:44

you guys can tune in and keep

1:11:46

watching the channel. So thank you, Brother

1:11:49

Thunder. Thank you for all the information. And

1:11:52

we'll see you all at the later time. Peace. With.

1:11:56

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