0:00

Hi, this is

0:03

Rachel McElroy.

0:18

Hi, this is Griffin McElroy. And this is

0:20

Wonderful. Thanks for listening to Wonderful. It's a show

0:22

where we talk about things we like, that's good,

0:25

that we're into. We know you

0:27

have lots of choices. When

0:30

it comes to podcasts about things

0:32

people like that's good that they're into,

0:34

you could listen to Awesome. That

0:38

one's done by another married couple, Bob

0:41

and Susan Jenkins. That

0:46

show is way bigger than ours. And

0:48

for good reason, they're great. I would love

0:50

like a super cut of Macquarie's coming

0:52

up with fake names on the fly.

0:55

I don't know why I can do first

0:57

names so easy. As soon as I

0:59

hit the surname, it's like a wall

1:01

forms after the first syllable. And

1:03

that is a common trait, I think, between

1:06

you and all of your family members. I

1:08

listen to a lot of Macquarie products because

1:11

I'm very loyal and I'm the biggest fan.

1:14

And you know, I have lots of time. And

1:18

that is one thing that is common across all shows is

1:21

that if you are asked to come up with the name,

1:23

it's like... First name easy. Just a

1:25

straight over the plate Christian name. Usually Jeremy.

1:27

Jeremy and Megan Ramblein.

1:32

See it's not, I don't know why it's the

1:34

surnames are such an issue for me. I've met

1:36

lots of people, like so many people. I've

1:39

met like a hundred people. Wow. Probably

1:42

more I would think. I

1:44

don't know. But anyway... Name

1:46

them all right now. Well, let's see.

1:48

There's Franklin and

1:50

Samantha Trail... Trail?

1:54

Yeah. There's

1:56

Phillip and Elizabeth and...

2:00

I think you don't have to name their last

2:02

names. I would be happy with first. Oh, then

2:04

that's easy. Stetson, David,

2:08

John. You did actually know Stetson, didn't you?

2:10

Fuck yeah, I knew Stetson. No, you told me. I

2:12

don't mean to brag, but he was pretty popular. You

2:14

told me about Stetson. And I was sort of his

2:16

friend grandfathered in from like elementary school when

2:19

we had like the same nanny, the

2:21

same like after school babysitter for a

2:23

while. So like when middle school rolled

2:25

around and Stetson was the coolest

2:27

dude in town, you know, I got in

2:29

there. Did he have any nicknames? Did people call

2:31

him Stet and or son? No,

2:34

just Stetson for the most part. That's a tough

2:36

one to truncate, I believe. Do

2:38

you have any small wonders? I

2:41

could talk about Stetson for like an hour. I just want

2:43

you to know. So could I, his dad ran a candy

2:45

store. Oh my God. And you fucking believe it?

2:47

It seems like a book that you've written. It's

2:49

not a book, it's real. His dad ran a

2:51

candy store. It was right next to the movie

2:53

theater downtown before the Pullman Square one

2:55

opened. And so we would hit that up. I would

2:57

get myself a big bag of chocolate stars and I

3:00

would go in, you know, watch a

3:02

flick. Wait, what are chocolate stars? That's

3:04

just what they sound like. They're little stars that

3:07

are made of chocolate. Are they like individually

3:09

wrapped? Nope, just to get a big old

3:11

bag of loose chocolate stars. I

3:13

don't see why you're struggling with this, it's stars, you

3:15

know how you can have different. I'm just

3:17

picturing like your chocolatey paw reaching in

3:19

the back over and over again. This

3:21

is maybe where- While I'm watching the

3:24

Scorpion King. Where your chocolate popcorn combination

3:26

started. It's possible. You

3:28

just like reaching your hand in a big

3:30

bag of melty chocolate. Yeah. Okay,

3:33

small wonder. Yes. Gosh,

3:36

banana pudding, have we talked about it?

3:38

Fuckin' hell, man. I

3:41

do a lot of the grocery ordering and

3:43

a lot of times we have groceries delivered

3:45

because well, we have two small

3:47

children that we don't like to bring to grocery stores unless

3:49

we have to. And I will

3:52

say that I noticed banana pudding

3:54

was an option. And ever

3:56

since then, it's pretty much all I can

3:58

think about when I order groceries. It's our

4:00

secret little, well not secret anymore, huh? I'm

4:02

telling the whole dang world about it. Did you get more

4:04

in a, like today? No. Oh

4:07

fuck. Not yet, but it's on my mind. I

4:10

cannot tell you the thrill I get when it's

4:12

like nighttime, we just got the kids to bed,

4:14

we're watching TV or something, and you're like, I

4:16

got banana pudding. It's like

4:18

such an exciting moment. I think

4:20

we could probably make it ourselves. Probably, yeah,

4:22

it doesn't seem that time. But yeah, I

4:24

don't know. I'm going to say

4:26

we have been, we're in a bit of a

4:28

drought in terms of like TV stuff. Like all

4:30

of our jammers are kind of off the air.

4:33

Perfect match starts back up today, which

4:35

you know we're going to do. Yeah,

4:38

we're recording this in advance. We have

4:40

been exploring the offerings of

4:42

Dropout, which is the

4:46

former sort of college humor streaming

4:48

service. I'm glad we're

4:50

talking about this because I feel like all

4:52

we get on social media is people recommending

4:54

it. Yeah, like, hey, have you watched Dropout?

4:56

It seems like you would like it, and

4:58

they are correct. Yeah, they're right, yeah. I

5:01

mean, obviously we did a season

5:03

of Dimension 20 called Tiny Heist.

5:06

I've been a Dropout subscriber for a while, and

5:08

I've sort of watched stuff here and

5:10

there whenever I see a clip of something that's very,

5:12

very funny, I will

5:14

like dip in. But Rachel and I, as

5:16

we have hit this sort of TV drought,

5:19

have been watching a lot of specifically Game

5:21

Changer. And man, that goes down so fucking

5:24

smooth, so funny, so

5:27

ambitious and just

5:29

high touch production. They

5:32

are doing a, they're in the middle of

5:34

a finale right now of Game Changer for

5:37

this season, which is basically the circle with

5:39

a bunch of very, very, very

5:41

funny comedians. It's,

5:44

everybody is playing fake

5:46

personas. Yeah, they have to create a

5:48

character, and then answer is that character. But the

5:51

whole goal of it is that these are all

5:53

people that work together regularly, and they have to

5:55

try and guess who is playing what character. Right,

5:57

and so there's layers of deception like

5:59

Brennan. is playing a bug with a big

6:01

ass, which is he

6:04

modeled after sort of the comedic

6:06

sensibilities of Rekha to like try

6:08

and trick, it's very, very good.

6:10

And Ally Beardsley is playing Brennan. And Brennan

6:12

Lee-Mogg, yeah, they are absolutely

6:14

hysterical too. It's fucking great. It's

6:17

a great platform. I'm so

6:19

like, I don't know, I'm so happy

6:21

it exists because it's like people making

6:23

stuff that is very good, that they're

6:25

very into and are

6:27

seemingly succeeding quite

6:30

a lot with it. So I love that, it

6:32

makes me very happy. You go

6:34

first this week for the big show, The Big

6:37

Wonder. What are you cooking

6:39

up in the lab? I

6:41

wonder as you open your

6:43

laptop. I

6:46

do this every week. We have someone that edits

6:48

the show. I know, but. You don't have to,

6:50

is it the silence between us? Does it make

6:52

you anxious? Not

6:55

just us, silence between me and any other

6:57

human being. I just feel like someone should

6:59

be talking right now. Okay,

7:01

to be honest, I can't remember really how I

7:03

came up with this topic. Hell yeah. I

7:06

came up with it though several days ago. In a

7:08

dream. And like prepped several days ago. So

7:11

if you had to ask me where did this come from, I

7:13

couldn't tell you because it's been several days. I

7:15

love that. Who could remember something several days

7:17

ago? But I can tell you how I found out about

7:19

it. My topic is Secret

7:21

Service Codenames. Yeah, sure. This

7:24

is not anything I knew about until we watched The West

7:26

Wing. Yes. Do

7:28

you remember any of their codenames? Let's

7:31

see, there was Backpack was, I

7:34

believe Zoe's

7:36

name. Technically Bookbag.

7:39

Bookbag, sorry. Their

7:41

eagle I think is always sort of the

7:43

president, right? Isn't that always the case? No,

7:46

not at all. But it is the case on West Wing.

7:48

Okay, CJ was

7:50

something like a flamingo or

7:52

something. Yeah, that's exactly right. Was that exactly

7:54

right? Wow, yeah. I don't remember any

7:56

of the other ones. Sam Seaborn had one. Sam,

8:00

I don't know. All I remember is

8:02

Flamingo because CJ was so upset because

8:05

she's a very, very tall woman. Sam

8:07

Seaborn was Princeton. Princeton is awesome.

8:09

Which seems right. Most

8:12

political figures of significant import,

8:15

enough to have secret service,

8:18

have code names. This

8:20

is not actually anything the secret service

8:23

chooses. The

8:25

White House Communications Agency maintains a

8:27

list that candidates choose from, often

8:29

choosing ones that resonate with them

8:31

personally. Oh, that's so

8:33

good. Mm-hmm. That's so cool.

8:36

So wait, what's the bar, right? Is

8:39

it just like, does

8:41

secret service just serve the executive branch?

8:43

And so it's like higher ups in

8:45

the sort of presidential line

8:47

of succession or like the senators? In

8:49

the article I read, presidents,

8:52

vice presidents, and their families aren't the only

8:54

people who get code names. The secret service

8:56

also uses them for other prominent people such

8:59

as some top government officials,

9:01

dignitaries, and celebrities. Celebrities? Yeah.

9:04

Why do they get secret service? It made me really wonder

9:06

though, like wait, wait, wait, what celebrities? But

9:08

I didn't have time to look into that. So

9:11

this apparently has been around, if

9:14

you look at Wikipedia, the first

9:16

entry is Woodrow Wilson's wife.

9:19

Woodrow Wilson's wife? That's fun to say.

9:21

What was her? So

9:24

Woodrow Wilson was president from 1913 to

9:26

1921. And

9:29

Woodrow Wilson's wife was grandma.

9:35

That's the first one that they came up

9:37

with? Yeah, I mean that I have here in

9:39

front of me. That's rough, man.

9:41

I wouldn't like that. It was really

9:43

with Harry S. Truman that it became

9:46

like the norm and that every president

9:48

and their spouse had a code

9:50

name. And then often the children, anybody, like

9:53

any family member that lived in the White

9:55

House had one. Right. And it

9:57

started following. a

10:00

convention pretty early, I think with Lyndon

10:02

Johnson, that they would use the same

10:05

first initial for every codename. So

10:07

like if a family was in there, so

10:09

for example, Lyndon Johnson was volunteer, Lady

10:12

Bird was Victoria, Linda Bird was

10:14

Velvet, and Lucy Baines was Venus.

10:17

So they all use the same

10:19

letter for their codename. Victoria's a

10:21

weird one. I don't feel like-

10:23

I know, that's just like a name. That's just

10:25

a regular name that would get very confusing.

10:29

One of the ones I found that was kind of funny.

10:32

So Vice President Nelson Rockefeller,

10:37

who was Gerald Ford's Vice President. I

10:40

looked that up, I did not know that. I mean, obviously

10:42

Rockefeller is a member of the- Yeah, I mean, sure. Rockefeller's

10:46

wife's name was Happy. Oh,

10:49

wait, her, hold on. No, her

10:51

real name. Okay, so that's, okay.

10:53

Wait, let me confirm that actually,

10:55

because it's a little hard to

10:57

believe. Happy Rockefeller? Maybe that is

10:59

what her codename became.

11:02

Secret Service Codename was. I mean, you

11:04

can have the name Happy, I'm sure.

11:08

I've never met any Happies,

11:10

but- Okay, no, I think

11:12

her codename became Happy. Okay. Because

11:14

at one time, it was

11:17

shooting star, which

11:19

as you can imagine, was

11:21

a challenge. Yeah, I bet if you are

11:24

on comms and you hear your Secret Service buddies

11:26

like shooting- Yeah, with the word shooting. Yeah, not

11:28

right. And then she became Stardust. So maybe

11:30

her nickname was Happy. Oh, that's cool. Stardust

11:32

is cool, I want that one. We

11:35

live in DC now, what do you think the odds are that

11:37

I could get myself a Secret Service Codename? Specifically

11:40

Stardust. I mean, can we start with you getting Secret

11:42

Service? Because I feel like that would be the first step. I

11:44

don't wanna do- You

11:46

just want a codename? Yeah. So

11:51

I mentioned that it can also

11:53

be people that are of importance.

11:56

Some of them are funny to read.

11:58

So presidential candidate and former- former speaker of

12:00

the house, Newt Gingrich in 2012, chose

12:03

the name T-Rex because of his

12:05

fondness for dinosaurs. Fucking shit. Do

12:09

you just like dinosaurs? I guess. I mean,

12:11

yeah, I mean, credit where

12:13

credit's due, that's a pretty strong, that's a

12:15

pretty strong choice. Air

12:18

Force One can be known as

12:20

Angel or Cow Puncher. Cow

12:22

Puncher? Cow Puncher, that must be like a

12:25

slang for a plane in the old days.

12:27

I don't know, I don't know. What

12:29

were we doing with planes that

12:31

that became? Obviously, you

12:34

gotta crack a few eggs to make an omelet

12:36

and discover the secrets of flight, but

12:38

if I learned that the Wright Brothers were

12:40

secretly smashing their planes into lots and lots

12:43

and lots of cows, then maybe

12:45

it wasn't worth it. You know what

12:47

I mean? Uh, huh, no,

12:49

okay. So Cow Puncher means a

12:51

hired hand who tends cattle, performs

12:54

other duties on horseback. Again,

12:58

I gotta check the Yelp review of

13:00

that particular ranch hand if I

13:03

gotta go, I gotta

13:05

go on Glassdoor and check out who's punching

13:07

cows, because I don't actually want that energy

13:09

at my ranch. Thank you so much. The

13:12

presidential state car is called Stagecoach,

13:14

which I enjoy. And then the

13:17

US Capitol is often called Punchbowl,

13:19

and the White House is often called Castle.

13:22

Now, code names

13:24

for folks I kind of

13:26

get, right? Like, is the intention

13:29

that your, like, communication

13:32

about these, this very

13:34

obviously, like, sensitive thing

13:37

that you have to protect, like, a

13:39

misdirect of anyone who might be, like,

13:41

within earshot, they don't know who... I

13:44

think that was originally part of it. Stardust

13:46

is? Okay. I will say it's also brevity, because

13:48

obviously, uh, when you're referring

13:50

to the president, there's certain ways you should

13:52

do it. And sometimes you're in a situation

13:54

where there are multiple presidents. Yeah. Uh,

13:57

and then also, um, yeah, I mean, kind

13:59

of what you're... like the secrecy

14:01

of it. I guess I don't understand why

14:03

one would need to be secret about

14:05

like a building, like, you

14:08

know what I mean? Well, because it's faster

14:10

in order, it's faster to, if

14:12

you're talking about the White House, it's faster to

14:14

just say, Well, it's a

14:17

castle. I do like Punchbowl for a Capitol building

14:19

a lot, actually. I think that's- Yeah, I know.

14:21

Isn't that fun? I think that's kind of good. Some

14:25

of my other favorites.

14:29

I wonder what Rudy Giuliani's secret

14:31

service name was. It says

14:34

here, Fart Ass. Can

14:36

I be right? Let me see, let me see. Most

14:39

people that run for president, they get secret

14:41

service and they get code names because of

14:43

that. Yeah, so wild.

14:48

It says here. Yeah,

14:51

I can't find that. Gooey Giuliani

14:53

was his code name? Oh, wouldn't that

14:55

be nice? Can you sense? Okay,

14:58

so some other ones that I enjoyed.

15:01

One of the things that I thought

15:04

was kind of funny, so

15:06

George H.W. Bush was

15:08

Timber Wolf, Barbara Bush was Tranquility,

15:11

and then the Bush children. At

15:14

the time, George W. Bush, who was kind

15:16

of known for his antics, related

15:18

to his- And continues to be

15:20

known for that, I would say, largely. Related

15:23

to his drinking in particular was

15:25

called Tumblr, but

15:27

when he became president, changed it to Trailblazer.

15:30

That's so Peek Bush. That's like

15:32

Peek Bush. Timber

15:35

Wolf was H.W.? Yes.

15:38

Damn it. I mean, that's pretty good too. Damn it.

15:41

Donald Trump was Mogul. Fucking

15:44

hell, man. Perhaps

15:46

even worse, Melania was

15:49

Muse. Oh

15:51

my God. I

15:53

thought the douche chills of

15:56

that whole situation had

15:58

reached the bottom. the zenith point,

16:00

I did not know that there was

16:03

more road to hoe in that category.

16:07

That's rough stuff. I

16:12

will say some of the funnier ones. So like

16:14

obviously there's some ego involved when you

16:16

like choose. Oh, it sounds like it may be a

16:18

little bit. Paul Ryan, for

16:20

example, chose bow hunter. Because

16:25

that's what he really- Okay, there's

16:27

a degree now, this

16:30

is crossing a threshold into

16:32

like LARP territory that

16:35

I wasn't necessarily anticipating, but

16:37

like maybe that's Paul

16:39

Ryan's like vibe that he's

16:41

always wanted to sort of like embody. Yeah.

16:43

You know what I mean? And now he

16:45

has this opportunity. It's like when

16:48

I make a character in Baldur's Gate 3, I'm

16:50

gonna spend a long time trying to pick one

16:52

out. The idea that this is happening on such

16:54

a high, important,

16:56

exceedingly douchey level is

16:59

really, really fascinating. I

17:01

know. There are tons more.

17:05

They're all available on Wikipedia. I also

17:07

found articles that kind of get into

17:09

the story. So for example, Ronald

17:12

Reagan was known as Rawhide because

17:15

he was a known rancher, was

17:18

in a lot of Westerns. But

17:21

yeah, you can find a lot of the stories. It's

17:24

really good. It's really good. And it's fun to

17:26

think about kind of these like comic book personas.

17:28

Yes. Belonging to these oftentimes

17:31

monstrous human beings. Exactly. Yeah.

17:34

Can I steal your way? Yes. ["The

17:50

Which is why here on Just The Zoo Of Us,

17:52

we judge them by so much more. We

17:54

rate animals out of 10 in the

17:57

categories of effectiveness, ingenuity, and aesthetics, taking

17:59

into consideration. in each animal's true

18:01

strengths, like a pigeon's ability to tell

18:03

a Monet from a Picasso, or a

18:05

polar bear's ability to play basketball.

18:08

Guest experts like biologists, ecologists, and more

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join us to share their unique insight

18:12

into the animal's world. Listen

18:15

with friends and family of all

18:17

ages on maximumfun.org or wherever you

18:19

get podcasts. I'm

18:30

Dan McCoy. I'm Stuart Wellington.

18:33

I'm Elliot Kalin. And together we are

18:35

The Flophouse, a long-running podcast on the MaximumFun

18:37

network where we watch a bad movie and

18:39

then talk about it. And because

18:42

we're so long-running, maybe you haven't given us a

18:44

chance. I get it. But you don't actually have

18:46

to know anything about previous episodes to enjoy us,

18:48

and I promise you that if you find our

18:50

voices irritating, we grow endearing over time. Perhaps you

18:53

listened to one of our old episodes and decided

18:55

that we were dumb and immature. Well,

18:57

we've been doing this a while now.

18:59

We have become smarter and more mature,

19:01

and generally nicer to Dan. But we

19:03

are only humans, so no promises. Find

19:07

The Flophouse on maximumfun.org or

19:09

wherever you get podcasts. This

19:16

one is a bit out of left

19:18

field. I will confess. I

19:20

want to talk about poker. I

19:23

have talked in the past about playing poker

19:25

for Halloween candy. I believe like four years

19:27

ago. Oh, wow. But I don't think

19:29

that was really necessarily about the game as much as it was a

19:32

good way to kind of distribute candy between

19:35

kids who maybe aren't excited about the candy that

19:37

they got. There is

19:39

a game that came out this

19:42

year called Balatro, which is like

19:44

a very complicated card game

19:47

that is sort of based on poker rules,

19:49

but it throws all these crazy modifiers and

19:52

stuff into it to turn it into this

19:54

big complex. Are you guys

19:56

all still playing that or has that not so much anymore?

19:58

But I mean for a good. month and

20:00

a half. It was all in one play that

20:02

I know. But

20:05

playing that has gotten me to realize

20:07

that I do kind of miss playing poker. And then it

20:10

got me to think about the fact that there was a

20:12

period in my life and in

20:14

sort of the consciousness of

20:17

the globe where poker was

20:20

really popular for a while. And

20:22

that was such a strange little

20:24

bubble that I feel like popped. And so I

20:26

wanted to kind of learn a little bit more

20:29

about it, there is a name for it.

20:31

It is the Poker Boom that

20:34

peaked between 2003 and 2006. So

20:37

I'm gonna talk about that specifically, like I'm talking about

20:39

Texas Holdem, which is kind of the most

20:42

popular form of the game. Yeah,

20:44

I remember I was in

20:46

college during those early days

20:50

and it was like everybody I knew was playing poker

20:52

online. Just everyone. And I was

20:54

a freshman in college in 2005.

20:56

Everyone was like crazy about poker. I know a

20:59

lot of people who were doing like the poker

21:01

stars like online thing. I had

21:03

multiple different groups of friends who

21:05

like put together poker nights and

21:08

it was on TV like constant. I

21:10

remember I used to watch that. It was on at like

21:12

one in the morning or something. Yes, what was the

21:15

not, I never really watched that much of

21:17

like the world series of poker, mostly because

21:19

like the big personalities in there sent

21:22

absolute shivers up in the spine. But

21:24

what was the celebrity poker tournament

21:26

thing that like I think Dave Foley was

21:29

a host of? Yeah, I don't know. I

21:31

don't know, I watched a lot of that also. I

21:34

think the last time that I've played poker was like 2015

21:38

with our group of friends back in Austin before

21:40

any of us had kids. But

21:43

I do still have like a deep fondness

21:45

for the game. I think that deep down

21:47

it kind of scratches that itch that

21:50

like werewolf and other kind

21:52

of like hidden role games

21:54

scratch for me of like

21:56

deception and like, and

22:00

like risk assessment and like straight

22:02

up kind of luck. Texas

22:05

Hold'em is like I said, the version that kind of

22:07

popped off. That's due to

22:09

a few factors. I think that it's

22:11

probably the simplest form of poker. There's

22:13

lots and lots of other types where

22:15

like it gets kind of confusing who

22:17

goes when. Texas Hold'em, if

22:20

you're not familiar, everyone gets two cards face

22:22

down. There's a round of betting, then there's

22:24

three cards laid up on the table that

22:26

everyone kind of uses with their two cards

22:28

to build the best five card hand. There's another

22:30

round of betting, fourth card comes out, another round of betting,

22:32

fifth card comes out, and then a final round of betting,

22:34

and then everyone reveals. I

22:38

think what I always really,

22:40

really loved about playing poker

22:42

with my friends is that I

22:44

am not the type of person who

22:46

like lies a whole bunch to

22:49

my group of friends, nor

22:51

do I like constantly keep my head on

22:53

a swivel for like

22:55

deceit. So you're a good person. Well,

22:59

I guess, but I don't know.

23:01

That idea, I usually

23:03

take people at face value if they

23:05

are like, if I am friends with

23:07

them, right? I don't have that, maybe

23:10

this is a luxury of like the sort

23:13

of experience I have had in my life,

23:15

but like I don't look at people and

23:17

think like, are you telling me the truth

23:19

right now? Like very often, if it

23:22

is somebody who I am like close with. So

23:25

to be placed in a situation where that

23:27

is all that I'm

23:29

doing feels kind of

23:31

like taboo and feels kind of

23:33

like exciting and

23:35

fun. It is taboo in kind of a

23:38

like harmless way because now it's like, oh,

23:40

I'm getting to see what my friends are

23:42

like when they're being

23:44

a little sneaky, when my friends are maybe

23:46

not on the level right now, and then

23:48

trying to figure out like what that looks

23:50

like for each individual person. I

23:52

always found that to be like intoxicating. I

23:54

think once you know enough about poker, you're

23:56

really able to play that way. I will

23:59

say for me, watching it on

24:01

television, there were a lot of times where I was

24:03

like, I don't know, is that good? Like, is a

24:05

three and an eight good? Is there a reason that

24:07

I would want the three in the, like trying to

24:10

figure out, is this person bluffing or is this some

24:12

hand I don't know about? Yeah, I mean, there is,

24:16

poker kind of occupies like a weird

24:18

space in the like world of games

24:22

of chance or like casino games or

24:24

anything like that, where it's not a

24:26

situation where the game is inherently weighted

24:28

against you in favor of the house,

24:30

right? It is

24:32

just a game of like looking at the cards

24:34

on the table, trying to figure out who has

24:37

which hands and that really is predicated

24:39

on you kind of like knowing what the hands

24:42

are, like what you are possibly shooting for and what

24:44

everybody else can possibly be shooting for. In that sense,

24:46

I think it is a much

24:48

more accessible game than for instance,

24:50

a blackjack, which has a codified,

24:53

like here's what you're supposed to

24:55

do if you have these cards and the dealer

24:57

is showing this card, like here's the flow chart

24:59

that you follow. I've never really vibed with blackjack

25:02

for that reason, but poker is much more about

25:04

like guessing what

25:06

other people have based on their sort of

25:08

social cues. I have

25:10

never played for like a great deal of cash. That is not

25:13

my, I am not big

25:15

into sort of gambling in general and

25:17

so I don't want this whole segment

25:20

to come off as a full-throated endorsement

25:22

of gambling because- It's

25:24

a legitimate, like when this was

25:27

popular, there were a lot of people

25:29

who were really becoming addicted to

25:32

like online gambling. Right, so to

25:34

get into that a little bit, I

25:37

just like the game. I'm not saying that I like

25:39

the, wagering your

25:41

livelihood on it. So Texas

25:44

Hold'em has been around since like the 1950s, I

25:47

think, but there was this poker boom between 2003 and 2006.

25:52

Before 2003, the game had been

25:54

growing in popularity largely because the

25:56

internet made things like, you know,

25:59

online poker. rooms like

26:01

possible. There was a movie that

26:03

came out in 1998 called Rounders, which

26:05

I adore on a deep

26:08

and unironic level. It's got Matt

26:10

Damon and Edward Norton as like

26:12

poker hustlers. It's

26:14

got John Malkovich as Teddy KGB,

26:17

and maybe my favorite role

26:19

of John Malkovich his whole career. I

26:21

think like most dudes

26:24

who I was like going to, who I went to

26:26

college with were like, oh, fuck yeah, man, Rounders, maybe.

26:29

It was very much that type of movie. So

26:32

in 2003, online poker sites were like a

26:34

big thing. There was a guy named, and

26:37

this is his real ass name, Chris

26:39

Moneymaker. So that was his

26:41

real name? Real name is it? No. He

26:44

didn't legally change it? I don't think so.

26:46

I think that was just his name. I'm not going to

26:48

Google it because I want to continue living in a world

26:50

where that was the man's real name. I remember seeing

26:52

him on those like poker tournaments. Yeah. The

26:55

way he kind of like made

26:57

his big splash is

26:59

he was playing in this online

27:02

satellite tournament of the World Series

27:04

of Poker that like, you

27:06

could join in and the buy-in was 86 bucks. And

27:09

you get to join this qualifier, basically

27:11

this online qualifier. He won that, made

27:13

it to the World Series of Poker.

27:15

And then he won the World Series

27:17

of Poker in 2003. And he won

27:19

$2.5 million off of his $86 buy-in online

27:24

tournament thing. So that is

27:27

the reason most people attribute,

27:29

it's called the Moneymaker Effect, where

27:32

people learning about this, watching the

27:34

World Series of Poker at home

27:36

are like, well, if this fucking

27:38

guy can do it. I know, it could be me. That

27:40

led a lot of people down a primrose path

27:42

that I imagine was not, was

27:44

bad for them, right? But it

27:47

also led to an explosion of

27:49

this sport. Also

27:51

during this period, I think it was 2004 was

27:54

when the NHL lockout happened. And

27:56

so all of a sudden

27:59

like ESPN had huge. scheduling blocks open

28:01

up, but they started to show more and more poker during. So

28:04

there was like a number of sort of things

28:07

that had contributed to poker becoming

28:09

this like huge explosion of things.

28:12

And then things like poker

28:14

stars and various like online,

28:16

like poker gambling services, just

28:19

sort of like grew and flourished, which

28:23

like there were local and

28:25

state gambling regulations

28:28

that these online platforms just kind

28:30

of like ran roughshod over.

28:32

Cause it's like, it's the internet.

28:34

The internet's not in a state,

28:36

it's up in the sky. It

28:39

moves through and around us all. How can you

28:41

regulate this? And yeah, that's why a lot of

28:43

states had to come out, I think, and make

28:45

their own legislation. Cause it- Well, no, what

28:47

happened was that in 2006, the Unlawful

28:49

Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 was

28:52

passed on a federal level. And

28:54

all of a sudden like poker stars stock

28:58

fell like 60% overnight. You know when you

29:00

see an advertisement for online gambling and

29:02

then they like have to list every

29:04

state and their specific- Yeah, so because of this,

29:06

right? Because of this act. After

29:09

this happened, poker stars and other services still

29:12

kept like going. But

29:14

in I think 2011, like there was

29:16

a huge crackdown on this and most

29:18

of those services then moved

29:20

overseas and continued to operate on

29:22

like an overseas platform.

29:26

It's a mess, right? It's a huge mess. And again,

29:28

I recognize that this is for so many people, like

29:30

a very, very harmful thing. And I don't wanna make

29:32

light of that. I

29:35

just, I don't know. I find it

29:37

very, very fascinating. I can't think of

29:39

too many things like this in my

29:41

life where there was like a game

29:43

that just exploded in popularity and literally

29:45

everyone I knew was playing it. And

29:47

I was playing it like a couple

29:49

times a month in like group

29:51

settings and having just a

29:53

good ass time. I don't think I played for anything

29:55

more than like a $10 buy-in for like a, you

29:58

know. an

30:00

$80 pot, which, you know, when you're in

30:02

college is a fucking huge amount of money,

30:04

but it's not, you know, I wasn't losing

30:07

my shirt. I

30:10

just, I always really liked it. I found

30:12

it cool to play. It is a fun,

30:14

I think, way to spend an evening

30:16

with like a group of people, because

30:19

like you can

30:22

make it last as long as you want to make

30:24

it last. Did you have a poker table briefly? I

30:26

did have a poker table. Yeah, I remember when you

30:28

were in Chicago, right? I'm trying to

30:30

remember, I think so, yeah. I feel like I remember

30:32

you trying to sell that thing before you moved to

30:34

Austin. I feel like I inherited it, I think

30:37

it was maybe Travis's. I

30:39

don't remember. I remember we got it off like Craigslist

30:41

for like 30 bucks or something like that.

30:44

Spoiler alert, we mostly used it for like last

30:46

night on earth and other like nerd as board

30:48

games that we had played with our friends when

30:50

we were in Cincinnati. I

30:53

don't, I think very little poker was ever played on

30:55

that table. Really after college,

30:57

like my poker playing completely like

30:59

fell off the face of

31:01

the earth. And again, it's been

31:03

nine years since I have played this game

31:06

but playing this Bellatro game is really kind of

31:08

like, I don't know, scratch that itch. It made

31:10

me remember like with some fondness

31:13

like this weird time in my

31:15

life where me and everyone I

31:17

knew was like playing poker all

31:19

the time and now they don't

31:21

and that's kind of cool, I

31:23

think. Yeah, I don't know if you

31:25

know this about yourself but you are a person

31:27

that loves games. I do love games. Yeah,

31:30

and I do love- So it's not surprising to me that poker would

31:32

be one of those games. I do love social games

31:34

too. When we did

31:36

the Joko Cruise, the

31:40

game I only ever wanna play is craps because

31:42

it's just a bunch of people standing around a

31:44

table yelling and cheering. That is fun. That's fun,

31:46

that's all I give a shit about. I do not

31:48

think I'm going to make money. In fact, I'm 100% sure

31:51

I'm gonna lose money. Here's the other thing about

31:53

poker. I'm not very good at it. I don't

31:55

think I ever won a poker night ever in

31:57

my life because I don't- because

32:00

for the reasons I outlined earlier, I

32:02

am not a particularly- Cause you have

32:04

such an expressive face. Every time you look at the cards, you'd

32:06

be like, whoa! No, I

32:08

think it's more that like, I'm bad

32:10

at being kind of like insightful about

32:12

deceit. Right? Like I am bad at

32:15

reading people. I know. Well,

32:17

that's... So

32:20

I'm not good at it, but I still really enjoy

32:22

it. Here's some small

32:24

wonders from our friends at home. I'll

32:27

save the name on this one until I

32:29

read it. My small wonder is when toddlers

32:31

first start saying names, they always get part

32:34

of it slightly wrong and you never know

32:36

what fun new nickname you'll have temporarily until

32:38

they can say it correctly. That's from Cassie

32:40

or Sassy, Cassie or Casa.

32:43

Oh, I love that. This

32:46

is how Nani got her. Yeah, and to

32:48

this day, still Nani. I

32:51

forget her real name. I always spend

32:53

an unreasonable amount of time trying to

32:55

decide how to spell Nani at Christmas

32:57

time. You know, N-N-E-E baby. Do

33:00

you remember how that was decided? No.

33:05

The spelling was never that big a deal, but

33:07

it was Justin tried to say Donna, which is

33:09

her name and it came out Nani and the

33:12

rest was history. He knew what he was doing.

33:14

He knew exactly what he was doing. Huge into

33:16

branding back then. Dee says, I'm a librarian and

33:18

my small wonder is setting up a display and

33:20

then later seeing the books from it have been

33:22

checked out. It makes me so happy to see

33:24

people resonate with the books I've chosen and that

33:26

those books are getting used. I bet

33:28

that's nice. Oh, I love that. I bet that's

33:31

really nice. I always wanted to do this

33:33

when I worked at GameStop. I always wanted

33:35

to like get this thing going. It was like,

33:37

let's put out like. You didn't? No, they

33:39

wouldn't let us. Yeah, they were very,

33:41

very intense about following. I

33:43

always love that, like video, like

33:45

rental stores, just like these are

33:48

all themed or these are all my favorites. So

33:50

it was fun to get a little window. It

33:52

was a fairly buttoned

33:55

up kind of by the

33:57

book environment. Video game store. Yeah, no

33:59

kidding. Thank

34:01

you so much for listening. Thanks to Bo in and Augustus for

34:03

the use of our theme song, Money Won't Pay. You can find

34:05

a link to that in the episode description. We

34:08

got some new merch over at macquariemerch.com including

34:11

a choice new fungalore poster. If

34:13

you're living that life, go

34:15

check that out. We got a bunch of

34:18

shows that we just announced. Yeah, more,

34:20

more shows. So, so, so many

34:22

shows. And I'm going to tell you all about them

34:25

in exactly 10 seconds. A

34:28

lot of them are cities located

34:31

in different places. Thank you so much.

34:33

Yes. What you'll do is you'll

34:35

buy a ticket and you'll see the show in

34:37

that city. It feels better, right, to vamp? And

34:40

you're like really good at it. Next

34:43

week, or perhaps, what is this coming out?

34:45

Yes, next week, we are going to be

34:47

in Kansas City, Missouri, June 21st, St. Louis,

34:49

Missouri, June 22nd, and Tysons, Virginia

34:51

on June 23rd. All those are going to

34:53

be Mabimbams. We're going to be doing wonderful

34:55

in the St. Louis show. Yeah. So that'll

34:57

be fun. Or Chesterfield, as it

34:59

is sometimes called. As they call it sometimes. But

35:02

we're also going to be doing a mixture of My

35:04

Brother, My Brother and Me and Taz. July,

35:07

we're going to be in Detroit and Cleveland.

35:09

August, we're going to be doing a bunch

35:11

of stuff at Gen Con. September, we're going

35:13

to be doing Orlando and Atlanta. October, we're

35:15

going to be in Denver and Phoenix. November,

35:17

we're going to be in Indianapolis and Milwaukee.

35:19

You can go to bit.ly slash Macroy Tours

35:21

for tickets and more information. Whew.

35:24

I know. It's a lot of, It's a

35:26

big year. A lot of time on the road. A

35:29

lot of time on the road, but

35:32

you know. Somebody's got to do it. Someone

35:34

has to do live podcasts. If

35:38

you don't have someone out there

35:40

doing live podcasts, then I'm terrorist

35:43

man. You know how like 20, 30 years ago, everything

35:45

was terrible and then there was podcasts and then

35:48

everything got much better? Wait,

35:51

wait a minute. Why just a darn

35:54

toot and second? I

35:56

think the opposite is true. Well,

35:58

I'm not blaming podcasts. It sounds like maybe you

36:00

are a little bit. Back

36:03

when it was just poker and no

36:05

podcasts, everything was fucking great. Podcast

36:07

buys the shoes for people in this

36:09

house. I'm never even complaining about podcasts.

36:12

That's true, but only the shoes. It's

36:14

weird the way that we have set up our finances. No, we're

36:16

not able to spend it on anything else. No. That's

36:19

what we've heard from our financial advisor. Jesse

36:21

pays us in what he calls shoe

36:24

bucks. Which actually sounds realistic based on

36:26

the style choices of Jesse Thorne. I

36:28

believe he would really appreciate shoe bucks.

36:31

He's got a line on very

36:34

cost, affordable style shoes.

36:36

Probably involves a flea market purchase, I'm guessing.

36:39

We're really spiraling as we

36:42

try to find the off ramp. Our podcast about shoes,

36:44

and of course we would end it talking about

36:46

shoes. Of course. Bye. Money

36:51

won't fit, work it all

36:53

fit. Money won't fit, work

36:55

it all fit. Money

36:59

won't fit, work it

37:01

all fit. Money won't

37:03

fit, work it all

37:05

fit. Money won't fit,

37:07

work it all fit.

37:09

Money won't fit. Maximum

37:13

Fun. A

37:27

worker-owned network of artist-owned

37:29

shows. Supported directly by

37:31

you.