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splunk.com. Slash resilience. Hello

1:08

and welcome to another episode

1:10

of Working Overtime, the biweekly

1:12

advice focus peeps to workings

1:14

Capri's creme egg. I'm your

1:16

host, June Thomas. And

1:18

I'm your other host, Ronald Young Jr. So

1:21

June, what are we talking about today? Well,

1:23

Ronald, I want to talk about

1:25

the importance of finding your why.

1:28

There are other names for this

1:30

why, a personal statement of purpose,

1:33

a mission statement, your ikigai. But

1:36

what I'm talking about is explicitly

1:38

naming your motivation for doing the

1:40

things you do, whether that's focusing

1:42

on artistic pursuits or any other

1:44

kind of project. And using

1:47

that information and motivation

1:49

to help set priorities and decide

1:51

how you're going to spend your

1:54

time. Do you have

1:56

this kind of personal mission statement? I

1:58

don't really have a personal mission. statement but I

2:01

really like to think about my motivation

2:03

and most recently it's been

2:06

like wanting financial independence. Specifically

2:09

I want to buy a house. I've

2:11

been renting for a very long time and I just

2:13

want my own little piece of land

2:16

but I also want to be able to when

2:18

I think about things I want to do creatively

2:20

I want to be able to foster meaningful conversations

2:22

about things I think are important like there's a

2:24

lot of activism there's a lot of equality and

2:26

equity and social justice work and I want to

2:29

be able to have conversations that are

2:31

kind of feeding into those and helping to bolster

2:33

those narratives and I like to weave that into

2:35

my creative work as well I don't want things

2:37

to be like kind of like a direct metaphor

2:39

all the time but I like to tell stories

2:41

that kind of allow you to unpack a larger

2:43

lesson so that's all kind of what motivates me

2:45

to continue doing this type of work. You're

2:48

clearly very mission driven so you might

2:50

not have a statement but

2:52

you certainly have a why there and I

2:54

was gonna say that I only recently figured

2:56

my why out but

2:59

I don't think that's quite true I think for a

3:01

very long time my main

3:03

priority was making

3:05

up money to do the kind of work

3:07

I want to do which was journalism and

3:10

because that was my preeminent concern I focused

3:12

on jobs that paid on a predictable schedule

3:15

and that meant I didn't do as much

3:17

of my own creative work as I would

3:19

have liked to and about

3:21

three years ago I realized I'd gotten to

3:23

an age where I basically had to make

3:25

a change if I wanted to write a

3:27

book which was something that had been

3:29

kind of a dream of mine for many

3:31

years if that dream was going to become

3:34

a reality I'd have to make some big

3:36

changes and I wasn't unhappy in my previous

3:38

life not at all but

3:40

I felt a calling to do something different and

3:42

that required some reshuffling that's when

3:44

I left my full-time management job

3:47

at Slate and I decided to move

3:49

to the other side of the Atlantic and

3:51

as other opportunities

3:53

arose whereas I once might have decided

3:55

whether or not I could fit them into

3:57

my schedule based on how much they paid

4:00

Now my most important concern was how

4:02

much it would derail or distract me

4:05

from the work I valued most, which

4:07

was working on my book. And

4:09

I still said yes to some projects. After all, here

4:11

I am on this podcast. But

4:13

my calculation changed

4:15

based on shifting priorities. And

4:18

I think having clear priorities

4:20

slash wise makes that

4:23

kind of tough decision making easier.

4:25

Does that all make sense to you? Absolutely.

4:27

There's always going to be trade offs. I remember

4:30

when I was working on my other show, Wait

4:32

For It. I remember I was pitching it around

4:34

and I was getting a lot of no's. A

4:36

lot of people saying, oh, we like this, but

4:38

no, we don't want to do it. And

4:41

eventually I had to make it independently. And I

4:43

remember while making it independently, one thing I realized

4:45

that I was the final stakeholder. I was the

4:48

one calling the shots. I was able to make

4:50

the show that I wanted to make. However, I

4:53

also, you know, was still having to think about

4:55

my bills all the time. So, you know, we've

4:57

had the freelance discussion. So really

4:59

committing to that idea of freelancing and maybe

5:02

having to struggle a little bit for a

5:04

check meant that in return, I got to

5:06

make the show that I wanted to make

5:08

that has been kind of well received by

5:10

audiences, which is something I really enjoy. So

5:13

I've kind of started thinking

5:15

that remaining independent for creative

5:17

freedom is important for me just

5:20

so I have that autonomy. And again, it goes

5:22

back to being able to have the conversations I

5:24

want to have and to be able to like

5:26

kind of push the agenda that I want

5:28

to push without someone kind of like telling me

5:30

what I can and can't do. So there's always

5:32

trade offs when you kind of have a place that

5:34

you're trying to go. I also

5:36

want to point out that not only has

5:38

Wait For It been popular with audiences, but

5:40

also with the people who name, you know,

5:42

the ex best podcast of the year, very

5:45

garlanded show. Thank you, Jim.

5:47

I have to admit that proselytizing

5:49

for everyone having a why is

5:52

like pushing people to really commit

5:54

to their goals in a workplace

5:56

annual review kind of setting like

5:58

it can feel a bit of

6:00

what the Brits call box ticking

6:02

exercise. But as with

6:04

annual reviews, I think it can

6:06

be really valuable if you take

6:08

it seriously. And I

6:10

suppose the basic question is why do

6:13

you need such a thing? Why do you need a why? To

6:15

give an example of when I think it really

6:17

helps, a lot of the advice questions we get

6:20

here on working overtime are really

6:22

best answered by getting a clear sense

6:24

of your why. How can I

6:26

find time to do my creative work? Well, what

6:28

do you want to do most? What's your why?

6:31

Should I give up my day job to focus

6:33

exclusively on my artistic work? Well, are you willing

6:36

to live on less money to make time for

6:38

that work? These are really questions

6:40

about priorities. And if you don't know

6:42

why you're doing the things you do

6:44

and what's important to you, it's very

6:46

hard to set priorities. All

6:52

right, we're going to take a break. But

6:54

when we come back, we'll talk more about

6:56

finding your why. Apple

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8:19

Hey listeners, do you have any tips

8:21

or questions about the creative process? Get

8:23

in touch and share your advice. You

8:26

can email us at working at slate.com

8:28

or even better, you can call us

8:30

and leave a message at 304-933-9675. That's

8:32

304-933-WORK. And

8:41

we're back. Okay, I hope

8:43

I've convinced everyone that having a why

8:45

is important, but how do you figure

8:47

it out? Ronald, a few

8:49

weeks ago in our conversation after

8:52

you're working in interview with

8:54

designer Wendy McNaughton, you mentioned having

8:56

made an enormous life change

8:58

a few years ago when you left

9:01

IT to focus on making podcasts and

9:03

spending all of your time on creative

9:05

pursuits. It sure sounds to

9:07

me like that was a decision based on your

9:09

why. Can you talk about what your

9:12

motivations were and how you decided

9:14

that the time was right? Well,

9:17

the time was decided for me. I had always

9:19

said that I wanted to be full-time audio production

9:21

by the end of 2020. January 2020 came and

9:23

I'm like, all right, Ronald, you

9:26

got to the end of the year to get that thing

9:28

done. Then February and March 2020 came and I said, ooh,

9:31

maybe this decision needs to take a little

9:33

bit longer than I thought. But in June,

9:35

I was let go from the job that

9:38

I had and I kind of just had

9:40

to jump into the freelance pool, find a

9:42

couple of contracts and get going. And that

9:44

was kind of the beginning of

9:47

my freelance audio production career. So I was

9:49

always motivated to get out of what I

9:51

was doing before I was doing a lot

9:53

of IT consulting type of work. But that

9:55

work wasn't exciting for me. I didn't enjoy

9:57

it. I kept wondering if I was just

10:00

I was just gonna be doing this for the next 30 years. And

10:02

I really never had a reason to do it except

10:04

to finance my life. Like my sister always said something

10:06

to me, Ronald, I don't understand if I have my

10:09

car to go to work or if I have a

10:11

job to pay for my car. And

10:13

it felt like that was kind of the

10:15

existential thread of having a job was what

10:17

am I doing this for? So I needed

10:19

a job that I was excited to do.

10:21

And when I got excited about audio production,

10:23

I knew that there was a lot more

10:26

for me to expand into. So

10:28

it felt good. So the time, I didn't

10:30

decide that the time was right. The time decided

10:32

that it was right for me to not do

10:34

what I was doing anymore. It kind of just

10:36

worked out that way. But I was excited and

10:38

I'm glad I made that transition. Yeah,

10:40

well, and you could have tried to get another

10:42

one of those IT jobs. I mean, heaven knows,

10:45

they're plentiful. They're available. Yeah,

10:47

and I just think that being

10:49

excited about working every morning, that's

10:51

a really good why. That's a

10:53

really, really good reason to make

10:56

a big life change. I think

10:58

one reason I'm so gung-ho about

11:00

setting clear priorities and making your

11:03

internal motivations explicit is that

11:05

there is so much in life

11:07

that is unpredictable. If

11:09

you're going freelance, it's impossible to

11:11

know how many gigs you'll get,

11:13

how many Patreon supporters will sign

11:15

up, how many paid newsletter subscribers

11:17

you'll get. In other words, how much money

11:20

you'll earn. So faced with

11:22

so many unknowns, the

11:24

more you can clearly articulate, the more

11:26

you can just have a statement

11:29

in front of you, just on

11:31

a post-it note on the wall in front of you, I just

11:33

think you're going to feel better. How

11:36

did you deal with so many uncertainties when

11:38

you made your big change, especially in

11:40

2020? Man, at the time,

11:42

I had no idea what I was doing. I go

11:45

to therapy and I pray a lot. Once

11:47

I get my mind right, I keep

11:49

a spreadsheet. I stay constantly networking because you

11:51

never know where your next opportunity is going

11:54

to come from. I try to plan ahead

11:56

financially when I can. That's not always easy

11:58

because you don't know. when

12:00

the next check is coming or how much it's

12:02

going to be for at times. Yeah. Therefore, I

12:04

asked for help when I need it. I have

12:06

a lot of good family and friends and a

12:08

lot of folks that are willing to step up

12:10

and support me, but there's a lot that I

12:12

can't control. There's a lot that I can't control.

12:14

So sometimes I just kind of have to roll

12:17

with what comes and that just means kind of

12:19

having a positive attitude, going back to therapy and

12:21

prayer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

12:23

It's kind of like just hoping for the

12:25

best. I'm an optimist and I always, you

12:27

know, hope and know that things will work

12:29

out or be as they're supposed to be.

12:31

And I think if I lean on that

12:33

framework in my mind, I feel generally a

12:36

lot better, but there's practical steps too, that

12:38

I just went through that are also helpful

12:40

that get me through the day-to-day logistics. I

12:43

agree that yeah, having the right mindset

12:45

is so crucial and having the sort

12:47

of mental resources to fall

12:49

back on also super important. All

12:53

right. We'll be back with some final thoughts

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15:14

Listeners, I just want to remind you

15:17

that if you're enjoying working overtime, please

15:19

subscribe so that you never miss an

15:21

episode. If you listen on Apple Podcasts,

15:23

we'd love for you to rate and

15:25

review the show. It really

15:28

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Overcast is your app of choice, please hit

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the star to recommend the episode to others.

15:38

Okay, we're back. Because our focus

15:40

on working and working overtime is

15:42

on the creative process, I've

15:44

been talking a lot about prioritizing time for

15:46

things like writing or playing music or making

15:48

pottery. But I suspect that

15:51

for a lot of people, relationships and

15:53

family are the things that make them

15:55

reshuffle their priorities. So whether

15:58

it's about meeting someone and feeling that

16:00

you'd rather take those weekends that you used

16:02

to block out for working on your novel

16:04

and spend them with that person, or because

16:07

you're drawn to spend more time with friends

16:09

or aging family members, or you

16:11

decide to have children and realize you'd rather

16:13

spend your nights at home with your family

16:15

rather than in clubs playing with your band.

16:18

Who would ever make that choice? I would contend

16:20

that these kinds of decisions are

16:22

all about thinking about your why and acting

16:25

on your ever-changing priorities. I

16:28

also want to say that thinking

16:30

about your why does not necessarily

16:32

mean committing to change. You may

16:34

well do your periodical reconsideration of

16:36

your life's purpose and decide that

16:39

you're on track, or you just

16:41

need to make really small adjustments,

16:43

maybe putting a little more emphasis

16:45

on health or friendships for

16:47

a season or whatever. It's

16:49

not necessarily a prescription for leaving your

16:51

job and moving across the world. You

16:53

can do smaller things. Do

16:56

you have any less thoughts on this, Ronald? Something

16:58

that I've been thinking about recently is being

17:01

present and being patient. I think

17:03

a lot of times when you're focusing on

17:05

your why, it's easy to get

17:07

impatient when things aren't happening as quickly

17:09

as you would like them to or

17:11

as frequently. I think if you

17:13

could just focus on what is happening in your

17:16

life right now, what is happening for you and

17:18

in front of you in your life right now,

17:20

things that you enjoy, even the things that you

17:22

don't enjoy so much. Just

17:25

analyze those, reflect on those, understand

17:27

why they're happening. I think you'll find that

17:29

you can write the ship a little bit more

17:31

in the moment when you're feeling a little stressed,

17:33

when you're feeling a little upset that things aren't

17:36

happening or being laid out in the way that

17:38

you want them to be. If you could do

17:40

that, I think you can bolster your patience a

17:42

bit and make it a little bit further down

17:44

the road. Be as present as you can. I

17:46

really just want to echo that again because a

17:49

lot of people say be present. It just means

17:51

a throwaway word. When I say be present, I

17:53

mean think about everything that's happening in your life

17:55

currently. Take a real mental

17:57

evaluation of that and reflect on what you're feeling. what

18:00

that means to you and how that is and

18:04

what that means is you have a little bit more gas to go a

18:06

little bit further. I so agree that we

18:08

sometimes use terms like mindfulness and it's

18:10

almost like a thing that you do

18:12

but actually it's just about being sensitive

18:15

to what's happening in your life

18:17

and just paying attention. That's

18:21

all the time we have for this episode but let

18:23

me leave you with one less piece of advice. I think

18:26

you should subscribe to working wherever you get

18:28

your podcasts and if you have ideas

18:30

for things we could do better or questions

18:32

you'd like us to address we would really

18:34

love to hear from you. You can send

18:37

us an email or a voice memo to

18:39

working at slate.com or give us a ring

18:41

at 304 933 W.O.R.K. If

18:45

you'd like to support what we

18:48

do sign up for slate plus

18:50

at slate.com/working plus. You'll get

18:52

bonus content including exclusive episodes of slow

18:54

burn and decoder ring and you'll be

18:56

supporting what we do right here on

18:59

working. Thank you as always

19:01

to Working Over Times producer Kevin

19:03

Bendis and to our series producer

19:05

Cameron Drews. When we're recording episodes of

19:07

working my why is to make sure

19:10

that Kevin and Cameron are happy. We'll

19:13

be back on Sunday with a brand new

19:15

episode of working and in two weeks we'll

19:17

have another working overtime. Until then get back

19:20

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