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limited time. Who. Stars Day.

4:00

you under their wing, so to speak, and

4:02

train you in this very historic and ancient

4:04

art. And then at that point,

4:07

after you have your sponsor who's agreed, yes, I'll train

4:09

this person, you can get

4:11

your equipment and your facilities inspected. So

4:13

it's verified by the Fish and Game

4:15

Division that you are qualified

4:18

and that you have all the necessary equipment.

4:20

It's safe for the bird and

4:22

it's appropriate for the bird. And then at that point you can

4:24

get your license. So it takes quite

4:26

a while. So I'm curious what

4:28

brought you specifically to this? Like how did you

4:31

end up becoming a falconer and what was your

4:33

journey? Oh, it all started with books, right? It

4:36

always starts with books. So

4:38

there's a book, it's relatively well known,

4:40

quite a few people have read it

4:42

in school. It's called My Side of the Mountain.

4:44

I was wondering if that's what you were going to pick. Yes.

4:48

Yes. And I would honestly say

4:50

about 75% of American falconers will credit Jean

4:52

Craighead George, the author of that book, with

4:54

their own falconry journey. If it

4:56

wasn't Jean Craighead George, then it was T.H. White's

4:58

The Goshawk. There's quite

5:01

a few falconry related books out

5:03

there that exposed individuals

5:05

who wouldn't normally know that this is something you

5:07

can do into the

5:10

world of falconry. And so when I was

5:12

about, I don't know, seven, eight, probably

5:14

a little too young to be reading that level, but I

5:16

saw the bird on the cover and I said, I have

5:18

got to have this book. And

5:20

I read it and I realized, oh, that's a

5:23

thing. But beyond

5:25

just my parakeet, which I had at home, I can

5:27

have a peregrine falcon. And so

5:29

I told my parents, I'm going to get a peregrine. And

5:32

they said, oh, not when you're living under our roof. And

5:35

so I moved out, came out here to Utah,

5:37

which happens to be a great paradise

5:40

for raptors, which

5:42

means it's also a great paradise to practice

5:44

falconry and started my journey

5:46

here. Did

5:49

you have a question? I was just laughing at the

5:51

implication that you moved out of your parents' home at eight

5:53

years old. No, at eight years old, I had determined

5:55

I was gay. I'm

6:00

gonna get a peregrine falcon at 18. I

6:02

moved out to Utah. I'm originally from New

6:04

Jersey where it's quite

6:06

industrial. And so I knew I

6:08

wasn't gonna be able to pursue my journey there with

6:10

a peregrine. We got some rockers out

6:12

there, but not exactly for this purpose.

6:16

So when you were talking about it, you said 180

6:18

test question test, 180 question

6:20

test. I'm

6:23

kind of curious, like what sort of things

6:25

do you need to know before you acquire

6:27

a bird? Yeah, that's a great question. So

6:29

the test is really just to test your

6:31

basic knowledge. And

6:34

the test goes over husbandry,

6:36

it goes over health, it goes

6:38

over laws, vocab. So

6:41

for example, the word cast in falconry could

6:43

mean one of four different things. Do you

6:45

know the four different things it could possibly

6:47

mean? And the- What are

6:50

they? Right, what are they? It

6:52

could mean to restrain the bird. It could mean

6:54

the bird's pellet that it's coughing up. It could

6:56

mean the action of bringing the pellet up. It

6:58

could also mean, this one, I don't understand why,

7:00

it could also mean a group of birds that

7:03

you're hunting together. So if you have like two

7:05

or more falcons or two or more hawks, it's

7:07

a cast of hawks. So

7:09

it's, and they're all spelled the same way.

7:12

Of course they are. These are four very diverse

7:14

meanings. Right? Well, two of them are related, but

7:16

the other ones, yeah. But the other ones don't,

7:18

yeah. And again, I don't know how this vocab

7:20

started, but it's been used for eons, back

7:23

in the medieval times, they were using a cast of

7:25

falcons and we still use it today. So

7:29

these questions that you have to do,

7:31

how national or local

7:33

is this test? Is someone

7:36

in one particular state gonna

7:38

find a completely different process than what

7:40

you just described? Well, not

7:43

a different process, but the test questions themselves

7:45

may differ because each state's laws

7:47

are different. So you might

7:49

be able to purchase the California Hocking

7:51

Club study guide, but the legal part

7:53

of that will only apply to California.

7:56

And so if you try to take that legal part, and

7:58

then let's say you're testing in. in Kentucky, you're

8:01

going to fail that section of the test. I

8:04

remember you saying at the workshop that

8:07

some states, you can only hunt

8:09

birds that are not native to the region, and

8:12

others, you can only have birds that are native

8:14

to the region. Is that? Yeah, so each state

8:16

also has restrictions on what species you can have.

8:19

So for example, here in Utah, we actually

8:21

have a wide variety of birds that we

8:23

can access, some that you would never actually want

8:25

to hunt with, because they're not exactly great birds

8:27

to build a partnership with. Such

8:31

as? Such as, like, the northern Harrier. It's a

8:34

really cool looking bird. Look it up. What a beautiful

8:36

bird, yeah. It's gorgeous. But no

8:38

one's ever hunted successfully with it, because they're

8:40

just not wired to work with humans the

8:42

way a red-tailed hawk is or a peregrine

8:44

falcon is. Then meanwhile,

8:46

you go out to, I think it's

8:48

Connecticut, and you

8:50

cannot have an American kestrel there, which is interesting,

8:53

because that's one of the most common starting birds

8:55

here in the American West. So

8:57

each state has its own laws and restrictions as well.

9:00

Where do you get a bird? I

9:04

love that question, because people are like, I go

9:06

to Petco, and I don't see these things for

9:08

sale. It seems

9:10

like that's not the norm, right? So

9:14

there's two main ways you can get a bird of

9:17

prey. Here in the United States,

9:19

we actually have the privilege of being able to trap one

9:22

from the wild. And a lot of

9:24

people at first are like, oh, no, wait, why do

9:26

you want to trap one from the wild? It's

9:29

actually beneficial to the raptor population, because about 70%

9:31

to 80% of them in their first year will

9:36

not make it to their second year, because the winter is

9:38

harsh. And if you don't catch something

9:40

on those cold nights, you might not make it to the

9:42

next morning. And so we

9:44

are able to take first-year birds, not anything

9:47

from the breeding population. That's actually illegal. But

9:49

a first-year bird that is going through its

9:51

first molt, we are able to take from

9:53

the wild and train for falconry. Alternatively,

9:56

you can also get one from a captive

9:58

breeder. And

10:01

so Sky, your peregrine... She's

10:03

captive bred. Okay. What

10:06

are the, what are kind of some of the sensory details

10:08

that you think about when you think about Sky? That

10:11

is such a good question.

10:15

And I would say for me it's the

10:17

journey of being with her. When

10:22

I am flying her and this

10:25

is something that a lot of falconers will

10:27

talk about. It's a very ethereal experience to

10:30

be out in the wild with this animal that

10:32

should not want a partnership with you. Because they

10:34

can survive on their own. They know they can,

10:36

but they keep coming back home with you because

10:38

they trust you and they feel that connection and

10:40

that relationship. They don't feel love

10:42

for you. It's all

10:44

food based. I often joke

10:47

when people are like, how do you get her back? I'm

10:49

like, same way I get my boyfriends to come back, I offer

10:51

them food. But

10:54

you build this relationship with

10:56

them. And so sensory

10:59

details that I would start to describe. When

11:01

she's on my arm, I can feel her

11:04

talons. And I try to use a lot

11:06

of falconers and a lot of people at

11:08

first they think, I want the thickest glove

11:10

possible to protect me from those talons. I

11:13

like to use the thinnest glove possible

11:16

so I can feel exactly what she's

11:18

thinking and feeling. And I can feel

11:20

each talon unlock. And I can feel

11:22

her put pressure on one foot versus the other. So

11:25

I know a moment before she's going to

11:27

fly. I know seconds

11:29

before she's going to tell me that

11:31

she's satisfied by ruffling her feathers. And

11:34

there's that very direct connection where she

11:36

can also feel my muscles tensing or

11:38

she knows my cue of, hey, we're

11:41

ready to go. Right. So I'll shift

11:43

my wrist just so slightly so she's

11:45

leaning more forward and she knows, OK,

11:47

now we're ready to move on. And

11:51

then, you know, when I'm when I'm touching

11:53

her and it's not necessarily recommended that you

11:55

touch your falcon, but for medical purposes, right.

11:58

I like her to be used to

12:00

my touch. touch. I can reach

12:03

under her wing and just feeling

12:05

how the feathers overlap each other.

12:07

They're like dragon scales, right? It's

12:09

just a very beautiful thing of

12:12

nature to look at the

12:14

armor kind of on her feathers,

12:16

on her wings, and how each one

12:19

perfectly overlaps. And then when she

12:21

molts, seeing the new ones grow in.

12:23

And when she molts,

12:25

it's actually a really beautiful thing because her

12:27

feathers become more sun bleached as the year

12:30

passes on. And so then she gets these

12:32

dark blue new feathers each year. And it's

12:35

just, I don't know how to describe it. It's a

12:37

work of art. Yeah, it sounds incredible. Having

12:40

Metz Skye, she's a

12:43

lovely, lovely bird. She is. She's got a

12:45

great personality. You can

12:47

see in her eyes that she's

12:49

thinking, she's processing, she's

12:51

really understanding, even when she's not on my

12:53

glove, if she's on Mary Robinette's glove, she

12:55

looks at me, Robinette, and she understands, oh,

12:57

this is still a safe place. She

13:00

knows that she's comfortable here. Well,

13:02

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15:39

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Rooney wrote this book so well, and she

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16:23

wait, really? But Kathleen Rooney wrote this

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help but fall in love with this

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it's just such a beautiful example of narration

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her handler's point of view. And

16:41

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16:55

the title of that again was Share

16:57

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So now that we're back from the break. I

17:50

have a question that I've been thinking about, which

17:52

is, you know, when we started this conversation, you

17:54

talked about how you got into falconry from, you

17:56

know, reading Jean Craighead George, and then you mentioned

17:59

the T.H. White. One of my

18:01

favorite books is H.S. for Hawk. One of the things

18:03

that's so interesting about H.S. for Hawk is it is

18:05

in part an examination of T.H. White's

18:07

book and sort of critique of it in a

18:09

lot of ways. So I'm kind of curious from

18:12

your perspective, what are the things you see in

18:14

fiction, whether that's books or movies or whatever it

18:16

is, that you're like, oh, that's not right. That's

18:18

not how this works. Or is frustrating to you

18:21

in one way or another? Yeah,

18:23

no, that's a great question. So I

18:25

can always tell when an author has really

18:27

done a deep dive in trying to understand

18:30

a bird of

18:32

prey or a falconer's life. And

18:35

something that I think a lot of authors want to skip

18:37

over for their, when they're

18:39

writing fiction is the husbandry aspect of

18:41

taking care of the animal that their

18:43

main character, that their protagonist has in

18:46

their possession. But what

18:48

they're missing there is that it's

18:50

the husbandry part that really builds

18:52

the relationship between the character

18:54

and the animal. I mean,

18:56

you think about your pet dog, right? Your

18:59

dog just doesn't decide it loves you one day

19:01

and it's going to come home. It's going to

19:03

come back home with you every day, but it's

19:05

when you're feeding it. It's when you're training it.

19:07

It's when you're really taking on walks and spending

19:10

that mundane time with it. And

19:12

I wish that more fiction writers, again,

19:15

you don't have to spend chapters on

19:17

the training, but that you touch on

19:19

the husbandry aspects to make it more

19:21

realistic and more authentic. And

19:23

that way I think you're also doing more justice, not

19:26

just to the character, but also to the animal

19:28

as well. After

19:32

we took the class

19:35

in 2023, one of the things that I read

19:38

was Fonda Lee's The Untethered Sky, which I keep

19:40

telling. I just ordered it. It's at my house

19:42

right now. It just arrived today.

19:44

One of the things that I love about it is

19:46

so much of the front part of the book is

19:48

the husbandry aspect. It is the bonding

19:50

with the bird and just the

19:52

daily aspect of like, you have to clean

19:54

a lot of bird

19:57

poop. Yes, every day. Yeah.

20:01

Well, and, you know, these kinds

20:03

of things and making sure to include

20:05

this kind of detail in your books has

20:08

a real world effect. Like

20:10

how many kids got

20:13

owls after they read Harry Potter with

20:15

no clue of how much work it was

20:18

going to be and no actual love of

20:20

taking care of birds. And

20:23

yeah, it's important to depict this kind of

20:25

stuff. Oh, absolutely. In

20:28

fact, in the United Kingdom, there's

20:30

no laws preventing just the purchase

20:32

of an owl from the general

20:34

public. There's no licensing process over

20:36

there. And so that was

20:39

actually something that, you know, naturally occurred

20:41

as Harry Potter grew in popularity as

20:43

kids started asking for owls for Christmas.

20:46

And if you watch the movies, you'll see

20:48

that Hedwig is kept in a relatively small

20:50

cage. People don't know

20:53

what is actually appropriate for these

20:55

owls. And

20:57

it's still a question I get today. Do owls

20:59

carry messages? No. You

21:03

get a pigeon for messages, but nobody

21:05

actually wants a pigeon until they read Cher Ami and Major Wilsey.

21:08

Something else that you said as we

21:10

were getting ready to record this about

21:13

writing, and we're so lucky because you

21:15

also are a writer, so you understand

21:17

the craft of it. But talking about

21:20

writing animals and honoring the fact that

21:22

they are animals. Yes. If

21:25

I wanted to honor the fact that I

21:27

had a falcon in a story,

21:29

what are some things, I guess,

21:32

the things that you see that are

21:34

anthropomorphic and the things that falcons do

21:36

that are body language

21:39

that is very specific to them? I

21:41

remember you talking about something on Sky's

21:43

face that fluffed when she was happy.

21:45

Yes. What you're referring to is it's

21:47

the chin beard. So they have

21:49

these little feathers underneath their beaks, and when

21:51

they're happy, they start to fluff them out.

21:54

And if they're really happy, their eyes turned

21:56

almond shaped. And this was actually something I

21:58

didn't know until maybe two years ago. I've

22:00

been a falconer for seven years. And

22:02

there's all these little secrets, again, that the

22:05

general author writing about a falcon may not

22:08

know, and you don't necessarily need to know.

22:10

But as you deep dive more

22:12

into these cultures of animals and

22:15

animal characters, and you build

22:17

relationships with people who are familiar with

22:19

your animal character, you can start to

22:21

learn this, right? And that's doing honor

22:23

to this animal and being realistic with

22:25

it. I

22:27

think if you're going to anthropomorphize an animal, if

22:30

it's obviously fantasy, right? Then that's one

22:32

thing. But if you're trying to write

22:34

something realistic, then honor the animal by

22:36

making sure it is actually acting as

22:38

an animal. What does Skye do when

22:41

she's cranky? Oh, she lets

22:43

you know. She

22:45

has those talents and she has that beak. Usually

22:48

she's not cranky as much as she's

22:51

hungry. Hmm. And so... I

22:53

get hangry. I mean, I get it. Right hangry, yes. And

22:56

so she'll just let me know that she's feeling

22:58

quite hangry, usually

23:01

in the form of bobbing her head, looking

23:03

around for her food, maybe starting to open

23:05

her wings as in, I'm ready to fly

23:07

right now. But

23:09

she's never actually been aggressive and

23:11

that's rare. I wouldn't say

23:14

all falcons are this gentle. She just

23:16

happens to be one that is very

23:18

tame and mellow and every

23:20

now and then she'll remind me she's a wild animal. What are

23:23

some aggressive behaviors you've seen in

23:25

other birds of prey? In

23:27

other birds. Yeah. So there's one

23:29

thing called mantling that they'll do and

23:31

that's actually a sign that they don't

23:33

really trust the situation or they

23:36

might not trust a certain person around them

23:38

or they might not trust a dog or

23:40

even their falconer occasionally. And

23:42

what it looks like is they will bring

23:45

their wings out and cover their food. And

23:48

that's basically them saying, this is my food,

23:50

I caught it and I think someone's going

23:52

to try to steal it. They

23:54

do it in the wild when they catch

23:57

prey. And usually it's because they want

23:59

to hide food from other soaring predators,

24:01

other hawks or eagles. But

24:04

a falconry bird doing that is quite

24:06

unusual because you want to see that

24:09

it's trusting of the situation. It trusts

24:11

its falconer to keep it safe. I

24:14

had read about mantling and noted

24:16

that when

24:19

we went out with Sky that she was, she

24:22

wasn't doing that so much. There was one point when someone came

24:24

up by the side of her and I saw her wing go

24:26

out and I was like, oh, I've read about that. Yeah,

24:29

no, that's totally true. That was the one time

24:31

I noticed it as well. And if you watched,

24:33

you might've noticed me shift her so that she

24:35

didn't feel uncomfortable with that person behind her. Because

24:38

it's true, right? She's a bird of prey. She

24:41

recognizes that, oh, if somebody's behind me, I

24:43

can't watch this person. So I'm gonna cover

24:45

my food. And

24:47

so the goal of the falconer there is just

24:49

to reassure her, no, you're safe, you're fine. Let's

24:51

move you so that you can see everybody in

24:54

the group and there's not one person behind you. What's

24:57

the thing that you wish the general public understood better

24:59

about raptors in general? What's the thing that if you

25:01

could make sure that everyone in the United States was

25:03

aware of this fact? I mean, do you have a

25:05

sense of where those things might be? So

25:08

many. I know. Where do I start?

25:11

We're only 15 minutes long. Okay, right.

25:14

Only 15 minutes long. Okay, let's keep this fast. Fast

25:18

as a falcon. So I

25:20

would say just to understand that

25:22

they are a core part of our ecosystem and

25:25

the way that we as

25:28

humans can impact that ecosystem, we

25:30

became very clear that we were doing a lot of harm

25:32

to them in the 1970s with DDT and

25:36

we've done a lot better since. However,

25:38

there are still people out there

25:40

that are inadvertently and accidentally herding

25:42

these birds with rat poison and

25:46

with persecution out in

25:49

the American West, some people will shoot them

25:51

because they think that, oh, they

25:53

are trying to eat my chickens. Things like

25:55

that, right? There's ways to coexist with

25:57

these animals peacefully in a way that... doesn't

26:00

harm you, your own

26:02

land and the birds

26:04

themselves. Yeah, where I live in New York,

26:06

the poison is such a huge issue. I'm sure. Especially,

26:09

you know, getting into the fall, a lot of

26:11

the larger raptors really struggle. Yeah,

26:14

and that's true because, you know, as the temperature drops,

26:16

there's less prey, and so they're starting to get more

26:18

desperate. Yeah, it's really heartbreaking. Well,

26:20

we have so enjoyed having you here on the

26:23

podcast with us, and thank you for sharing all

26:25

this incredible wealth of knowledge and firsthand experience. Is

26:28

there anything you want to promote in terms of your

26:30

own organization or social media? Where can people follow you

26:32

and find out more? Yeah, for sure. Again,

26:35

you know, being an English teacher, I love

26:37

talking about writing, and I love making connections

26:39

with writers. So if anybody has any questions

26:41

about writing realistic birds, or perhaps if they

26:44

want to get in contact with a falconer

26:46

around them, I have lots of

26:48

contacts all over the world, and I'd

26:50

be happy to share those. So

26:53

my Instagram is ChristaFeather, all one

26:55

word, K-R-I-S-T-A, and then feather. Give

26:59

me a follow, send me a message. I'd love to

27:01

get in touch with you. If

27:03

you're local to Utah, I also do

27:05

educational Raptor experiences, and so you

27:07

can send me an email at

27:10

feathers4thought, and that is spelled the

27:12

exact way it sounds,@gmail.com, or

27:14

you can also, again, get in touch with me on

27:17

social media, on Instagram. I

27:19

highly recommend following Christa because there

27:21

are a lot of really beautiful

27:24

photos of her

27:26

with Sky, and then just

27:28

randomly, oh, don't mind me, I'm just

27:31

holding this golden eagle that's like half the size of

27:33

you. Yes, yeah. They're so

27:35

big. Oh, they're terrifying too. They're so

27:37

majestic, and once you trust them not

27:39

to hurt you, you feel really good,

27:41

but in that moment, you're like, what are you

27:43

gonna do with me? Absolutely terrifying. So

27:45

what about your writing? Is that something people

27:48

can go out and find and read?

27:50

Yes, yeah, so I've published a

27:52

few articles, mostly falconry-related, as well

27:54

as some personal memoir, short memoir,

27:57

falconry-related articles. So

27:59

there's... It's a great magazine

28:02

called Pursuit Falconry. It's

28:04

published over in the UK and they kind of

28:06

collect stories from falconers all over

28:08

the world. I've published several there.

28:12

There's also another magazine called Hawk

28:14

Chalk published here

28:16

in the United States, and that one

28:18

also publishes short stories

28:20

and memoir and articles

28:22

based on falconry. So if you're interested in,

28:25

again, learning more about what this is and

28:27

what it looks like, those two

28:30

magazines would be a great one to give a shout out to.

28:32

Those are always some of my favorite things

28:35

is reading a specialty magazine. And I'm also

28:37

going to say for writers that if you're

28:39

thinking about writing falconry, when

28:41

you pick up one of these magazines, don't

28:44

just read the articles. Actually read the advertisements

28:46

as well. Because that is going to teach

28:48

you so much about the things that go

28:50

into the job and the lifestyle because it

28:52

is a lifestyle. That is a great point.

28:55

Yeah. Yes, it is

28:57

a lifestyle. Actually, before we go to

28:59

homework, can you tell people what the

29:01

care and feeding of Sky is

29:04

like? Because you all talked about

29:06

this and I was just like, oh, that's

29:09

not like having a dog. With

29:11

a dog, you know, you just pour out some

29:13

food, it eats it at the end, goodbye. With

29:17

feeding a raptor, it's quite intense.

29:20

Some of the individuals that came out for

29:22

our demo the other day got to see

29:24

me taking apart her food. And

29:27

again, they're predators. And so we like to

29:29

give them the best possible food for them.

29:31

I compare it to giving the best gas

29:34

to a Ferrari. And

29:36

so she eats a high quality diet

29:38

of quail and dove and pigeon. We

29:40

try to mimic something that she'd be eating in

29:42

the wild. And so she

29:45

will eat the whole prey, but she will not eat

29:47

the whole prey in one sitting. And so I, the

29:49

falconer, have to cut up that prey to make

29:52

it more manageable for her. And

29:54

so that's part of the feeding routine,

29:57

the care routine. You know, I'm always cleaning up

29:59

after. her. She lives a very spoiled life.

30:01

I am just her servant. She's really the master

30:04

of the house. And

30:08

so anyways, yeah, it takes,

30:10

I would say it's about an hour to

30:12

two hours every day dedicated to her. If

30:15

we're out flying and hunting, then

30:17

it's quite a lot more. It could be upwards of five

30:20

hours a day. Occasionally, if

30:22

I'm doing a weekend trip, it'll be all

30:24

weekend for out hunting. Amazing. Yeah. Going out

30:27

with you to watch her free fly was

30:29

really a very special experience. Truly. I'm glad

30:31

you guys enjoyed it. Yeah. I love sharing

30:33

my little corner of the world with people.

30:36

Yeah. Actually, I keep saying, and then we're

30:38

going to do homework, but I do have

30:40

one. This is, I promise this is going

30:42

to be my last question. On

30:45

her non-flight days, does she have enrichment

30:47

activities? Like what does

30:49

a falcon do for fun? That's a good

30:51

question. So she, I mean, her enrichment is

30:53

really just kind of observing the world around

30:56

her. Falcons aren't

30:58

like parrots where they need

31:00

constant companionship. They're naturally solitary

31:02

animals. And so I bring

31:04

her to work with me sometimes. Fun. Yeah. And

31:06

she has her own spot. She has her own

31:08

perch. And so she hangs out, watches the students.

31:12

Occasionally, I bring her over to my friend's

31:14

house and he has a great

31:16

outdoor space for her to enjoy and watch

31:19

the world pass. And so on

31:21

non-flying days, she really is quite happy

31:23

to take a break, I would say.

31:25

That's fantastic. Well, speaking of a break,

31:28

you don't get one because you get some homework,

31:31

which Krista has for you. Yes.

31:33

So we're going back to falconry and

31:35

writing, of course. And so my homework

31:37

for you would be to really try

31:39

to, if you want to write

31:42

a falcon character, if you want to write

31:44

about any animal character in general, try

31:46

to find somebody who is intimately connected

31:50

with that animal. Right. And so if we're

31:52

going back to falconry, contact your local falconers

31:54

club or association. A lot of times you

31:56

can Google, you know, Tennessee

31:58

falconers association or Tennessee falconers club. Tennessee Hocking

32:00

Association. And they

32:03

hold, and most of the states will host

32:05

meets or club events every few months. If

32:07

you're not able to get in contact with

32:10

the actual Falconer nearby, there's great

32:12

memoirs out there. Helen

32:14

McDonald's, H is for Hawk is a great example,

32:17

as is Dave Warren's Onwards, which was

32:19

actually just published last week. There's

32:22

a lot of great falconry

32:24

content, and these

32:26

writers give you a great glimpse

32:28

into their life and into

32:30

their relationship with their animals. Sounds

32:33

amazing. Thank you so much for being with us. Yeah,

32:35

thank you. For our listeners, you

32:37

are out of excuses. Now go write.

32:42

Writing Excuses has been brought to you by

32:45

our listeners, patrons, and friends. For

32:47

this episode, your hosts were Mary Robinette

32:49

Kowal, Dan Wells, and Ang Wan Song.

32:51

This episode was engineered by Marshall Carr,

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and produced by Emma Reynolds. For

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