0:02

Thank you for listening to We Have

0:04

Ways of making you talk. Sign up

0:06

to our Patreon to receive bonus content,

0:09

livestreams and our weekly newsletter with money

0:11

off books and museum visits as well,

0:13

plus early access to all live show

0:15

tickets. That's patreon.com slash

0:18

We Have Ways. Welcome

0:33

to We Have Ways of making you talk. Norman

0:36

D with me, Al Murray and James Holland, as

0:38

you can hear the birds tweeting in the background,

0:40

maybe you can hear the River Odon flowing mellifluously

0:44

in the background. We're in Normandy and

0:47

in our last episode, we were telling

0:49

the story of the Epson battles and

0:51

the attempt to get to Hill 112.

0:54

Get across the Odon, get that bridge head across the Odon. That

0:56

was my idea. We've just done that.

0:58

We have just driven across the Odon. Took us

1:01

what? Ten minutes from the last

1:03

place. Yeah, but we're kind of

1:05

a good five miles or so. Seven

1:07

miles, I'd say. Yeah. Five

1:09

miles from where we started in Maury. How close is the rolling

1:12

barrage ahead of us? I

1:15

think, I mean, one of the, so, so the

1:18

précis is, the idea is to get across

1:20

the Odon and ultimately to get to the

1:22

high ground at Hill 112. Yes,

1:24

because that really does sort of command the battlefield

1:26

all around Caen, if you've got that. I mean,

1:29

the Roray Ridge as well, but Hill

1:31

112, we haven't got there yet, but when we

1:33

do get there, it's so darn obvious. You've got

1:35

a 360 degree view from up there. That's the

1:37

point. It's not, you know, it's

1:39

Hill 112, so that tells you that it's only

1:42

112 meters above sea level, whatever. I mean, it's

1:44

not massive, but it is significant. And this is

1:46

this thing that we always go on about, about

1:49

high ground and how high is the high and

1:52

how big is the Hill. And, you

1:54

know, it's very easy to think of some

1:56

sort of conical rolling Hill. It's not really like that. It's more

1:58

like a sort of plateau once you get up there. But what you

2:00

can see, we're now, we've now reached

2:03

the five mile point.

2:05

Yeah. We're at the River

2:07

Rodon at Tormaville and Versaune,

2:10

the village of Versaune is just a

2:13

couple of miles or mile and a half away

2:15

to the east. Gavroos on

2:17

this southern side of the odon is

2:20

another kind of mile and a half

2:22

to the west. It's a

2:24

narrow bridge. If we walk over to the

2:26

bridge a little bit and look at the

2:28

river, it's not tiny, but

2:30

it's not a big river either.

2:32

It's enough though, right? It's enough. But

2:35

the key thing about this is we've just

2:37

dropped quite steeply from the village

2:40

of Tormaville and, I think

2:42

the village is Tormaville. And we can

2:44

see the sides going up onto

2:46

the high ground towards Hill 1-2 are also quite

2:48

steep. I mean, only to the tune of 60,

2:52

80 foot, something like that. And then it

2:55

kind of levels out again. But the actual,

2:57

the kind of heart of the odon valley,

2:59

it's a narrow stretch of, you know, I

3:01

know what are we talking about? Kind of

3:03

300 yards, 200 yards wide or something. It's

3:05

quite steep. Yes. It drops down quite dramatically.

3:08

The river is clearly over

3:10

the millions of years cut. Yes,

3:12

that's a kind of 20 foot valley. Cut this little valley meander down. So is

3:14

it? Yeah. Yeah.

3:17

So, you know, jolly useful to have this bridge here rather than having

3:19

to bring your baileys up and get the

3:21

engineers to bridge it. But they get over here

3:24

on the night of the

3:26

27th, 28th of

3:29

June. So the morning of

3:31

the 28th of June, it's day three of

3:33

the Epson battle. Yeah. You know,

3:36

they were supposed to be here on day one. The

3:38

same old story. It never quite goes according to

3:40

plan. Time gets sucked up. Well, it takes longer

3:42

than you think. Friction. But

3:45

a friction, absolutely. But the

3:47

12SS, which are doing the hard yards of holding

3:49

this whole line and still trying to kind

3:51

of hold the Roroe Ridge. The Roroe Ridge finally goes

3:54

on the 27th is now in in

3:56

British hands. That means that, you

3:58

know, they are absolutely run ragged i mean

4:01

pansy marin is made out of that that they've

4:03

they've had to take the lion share and they're

4:05

just absolutely broken well it's interesting is it because

4:07

even the way we talk about the the battles

4:09

here makes that point that

4:12

the british and the canadians in americans plan

4:14

operations stage operations carry

4:17

out operations that that you know that have

4:19

objectives in it takes them three days to

4:21

get somewhere that supposed to happen in one

4:23

of all that the germans on apart

4:26

from lutech which is that the the

4:28

water counter-offenses later in the normandy battle

4:30

the overall battle germs on

4:32

thinking like that they're not saying okay

4:34

that tuesday tuesday week will be operation

4:36

fine-hunt and that's what we they're not

4:38

that they're simply not operating in that

4:41

on that plane are they now it's

4:44

firefighting it's relentless you know that the

4:46

idea that pansy man knows that one

4:48

of them smartly the other ones epson

4:50

is not conceptualization of what's going on

4:53

as a result one big battle just

4:55

one big battle and and obviously

4:57

he knows from the prisoners that picking up on the

4:59

and for the arty they're listening to well

5:02

at least forty-third west six division here and

5:04

they've got they've come in again on the afternoon of

5:06

the twenty do you know what i mean show ranges

5:08

of yomerie over there that's eleventh is a little complicated

5:11

i'm not sure we have to find out that's

5:13

as much as they know he doesn't

5:15

know that there's epson with

5:17

the subjective he knows are things he's absolutely got

5:20

to hold on to he knows he's not meant

5:22

to see ground because that's the fear of a

5:24

fail but beyond i think it's because

5:26

i sometimes think when you read about

5:28

the normally battle from the from the british british

5:30

or allied perspective because the conceptualizing

5:32

the normally battle tends to be done

5:34

for from an allied perspective to see

5:36

that in terms of

5:39

here's epson his model at work upcoming

5:41

chanwad jupiter you know uh... you

5:44

know thinking about that the germs if you

5:46

i mean i if you were to write it history

5:48

of the normandy battles from a

5:50

germers perspective without knowing any of that

5:53

without knowing what any of those things

5:55

were what you're looking at is this

5:57

endless relentless suddenly that

5:59

morning, this part of your line is

6:02

being subjected to that 700

6:04

gun barrage. Like what the

6:06

hell? Well, I better, I'm going to have to do something

6:08

about that. You know, your man coming up

6:10

and blocking the line with four, he

6:12

scraped together four Panzer IVs, what's left of

6:15

his Panzer company. That's what

6:17

the Germans are doing. And they're not, they

6:19

are not doing, they're

6:21

not operating on an, literally

6:23

on the operational level, the way that the, the

6:26

way that the, the allies are. Right? Yeah, yeah,

6:28

yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And the problem for the 12SS,

6:30

the much beleaguered 12SS is they're trying to have

6:32

to hold everything. I mean, why does this, why

6:34

are, is 11th farmer division able

6:36

to get across this bridge? Why is it

6:38

still intact? Because it's absolute chaos. Yeah. You

6:41

know, they can't be everywhere all the time

6:43

and they're trying to hold these, they're trying

6:45

to hold the nodal points. They're trying to

6:47

hold the high ground. They're trying to be

6:49

everywhere. They're trying to respond to this unbelievably

6:51

relentless pressure, which is on a two mile

6:53

front on, on, on eighth course front, but

6:55

is on another two miles on 30 course

6:57

fronts. That's maybe four miles they've got to

6:59

deal with. Yeah. And they just can't be

7:01

everywhere. They're, they're run absolutely ragged. And

7:04

that's why on the morning of the 28th

7:06

of June, day three

7:08

of Epson, the eighth Durham light

7:10

infantry and 25 tanks

7:13

of the third RTR are able

7:15

to push on straight on out

7:17

of this ridge line here, you know, out

7:20

of, out of this escarpment, get onto the

7:22

high plateau and push right on up to

7:24

hill 112, find it completely empty. It's just

7:26

not there at all and push onto an

7:29

HDI, push onto the reverse slopes, where there's

7:31

a wood and occupy that

7:33

wood. And that's there. The

7:35

problem is on the

7:39

end of day of the 28th

7:41

is you've got this comparatively tentative

7:45

salient, which is now

7:47

stretching out over the river Odon in

7:49

a big kind of rectangle, which

7:52

is coming out and that they, they, they

7:54

push on even further as well on the

7:56

right-hand flank of eight DLI as well. And.

8:00

That afternoon it becomes clear that the British

8:02

troops on the right hand flank, on the

8:04

western flank, 30 corps, and

8:07

the others on the left, they haven't got, they

8:09

haven't caught up. So the problem

8:11

with a salient is it's all well and

8:14

good because you're taking ground, but it also

8:16

means that you've got three sides you need

8:18

to defend wrong or what. Yes, you know

8:20

you're now exposed. So all gains create fresh

8:22

risk. Right, and what Dempsey and Monty know

8:24

is what's coming. They

8:26

know that the two SS Panzer

8:29

Corps plus Kampfgruppe Weidinger from two

8:31

Das Reich plus the first leading

8:33

elements of the first SS Leipzig-Data,

8:37

they're all arriving over,

8:39

you know, basically on the 28th, 29th

8:43

of June, you can expect pretty heavy counter-attack.

8:45

But what they also know is that

8:48

not only have you now got, I

8:50

mean, you've more surface area as it

8:52

was, wherever you're at, more exposed surface

8:54

area to the enemy. You've

8:56

also been doing a very, very high intensity

8:58

operation for three days. You

9:00

might be winning, but you've been a tritted. So

9:04

your balance sheet is very different to day

9:06

one, right? Your assets are in a

9:08

different, so not only, you know,

9:10

because that's the thing Montgomery

9:12

and Dempsey also know is that they're

9:14

not in the state they were in three days ago and fresh

9:17

Germans are arriving. So

9:19

they come back off Hill 112,

9:21

don't they? Well, they do, but they don't do

9:24

that till the 29th. Yeah. And

9:26

then on the 28th, the decision is not made

9:28

until the following day. So we're still on the

9:30

28th and it's not until the following day, the

9:32

29th that the big counterpunch happens and Dempsey and

9:35

Monty know this and Dempsey informs

9:37

O'Connor that he can expect some pretty, you

9:39

know, they've got a bit of intelligence to

9:41

say that is ultra, but

9:43

explains that he can

9:45

expect a fairly heavy counter-attack. This

9:48

is the moment where Epson really

9:50

offers the opportunity to grind down

9:52

the Germans as they're arriving into

9:54

the fray. And the

9:57

German situation is made worse by the fact

9:59

that... has died on the 27th. Dohmen

10:02

is the commander of the German 7th Army,

10:04

which covers this whole area of Normandy and

10:07

Brittany, because its 15th Army are

10:09

on the other side of the River Awe, the

10:12

eastern flank of the Normandy Bridgehead. So all

10:14

the Normandy Bridgehead areas are within the area

10:16

of the German 7th Army. Dohmen

10:18

dies of heart attack in Cherbourg or whatever, wherever

10:21

he is, up in the Coattentown. And

10:24

what that means is that Paul Hauser takes over.

10:26

And Paul Hauser is an SS general, and he

10:28

is the commander of the 2 SS Panzer Corps,

10:30

which is just arriving into the theatre. So

10:32

what that means is not only are

10:34

they just arriving, they've also got a

10:37

new commander, because Bittrich takes over, because

10:39

Hauser has been bumped up to command

10:41

7th Army. So

10:43

you've got a change of high command

10:46

at exactly the same time that you've

10:48

got to do a counter attack, and

10:51

you're doing that counter attack from a German point of view, without

10:53

any opportunity for reconnaissance whatsoever.

10:56

You're just throwing these units

10:58

straight in. Dempsey and Monty

11:00

know that's going to happen, and they're thinking, brilliant,

11:03

bring it on, because this gives us an opportunity to

11:05

grind them down. So what we're going

11:07

to go next is we're going to go and

11:09

look at that counter attack from the

11:11

9th SS. So we're going to head back towards Hauser-Lebosk

11:14

and... and

11:17

see that road where the Germans

11:20

come down with their panzers and Panzer IVs and all

11:22

the rest of it. Where are

11:24

we, James? With the sound of the... the

11:27

dual carriageway in the background, which is... Well,

11:29

we're here at Belval, Belval Farm. So it's

11:31

just behind these trees here, is Belval Farm.

11:34

And we are, you know, maybe a mile

11:36

south of Scheu. Scheu. Scheu.

11:39

And this is all the... you know, this is

11:41

the afternoon of the 29th of June and

11:45

into the 30th. Yeah. So the

11:47

9th SS and the camp group are fighting a

11:49

counter attack, is kind of just hitting a brick

11:52

wall. And this is part of the brick wall. And here we are,

11:54

the kind of... I

11:56

suppose almost a kind of western base of the salient.

11:58

Yep. you know we're north of

12:01

the river Odon which is you know Marlow so to

12:04

the south of us of where we are here

12:06

and they're attacking at that base which is exactly

12:09

what you know this is what Dempsey and Montgomery

12:11

were fearing was that if you left them up

12:13

on if you left 8th DLI and all the

12:15

rest of them up on an 11th Arm abrogate

12:17

on the hill hill

12:20

112 they get cut off

12:22

at the bottom so much better to come

12:24

back still keep your salient over the over

12:26

the Odon but kind of a

12:28

much more kind of restrained shorter stubby assailant

12:30

rather than being out on a limb yeah

12:32

and this this decision has had a lot

12:35

of criticism over the years yeah because of

12:37

what happened subsequently and we'll go into that

12:39

a little bit later but you

12:41

know this idea of you know it's anaphorma to

12:43

the British to have to kind of spill blood

12:45

over the same place twice yeah but

12:48

on balance you'd have to say it was the right thing to do

12:51

because you know when they took it you

12:53

only had the 12SS there now

12:55

you've got elements of first panzer, tenth

12:59

panzer, ninth panzer, elements of second

13:01

panzer and the remnants of 12SS

13:03

as well so you've got you've got elements of and

13:06

quite a lot of up to

13:08

five panzer divisions yeah whereas the British are

13:10

only got one Arm of division yeah yes

13:12

so all their firepower yeah well and also

13:14

that's been fighting for several days so that

13:17

you know and you don't want to get

13:19

yourself off balance and overstretch yeah absolutely

13:21

and what and what they're trying to

13:23

do here the new orders are dig

13:26

in hold the ground yeah don't give

13:28

up an inch and the people that

13:30

are dug in here are the six

13:32

Kings own Scottish borderers yeah and this

13:34

is Robert Wolkum who wrote that brilliant

13:36

memoir called the Lion Rampant, the Lion

13:38

Rampant is the lion symbol

13:40

of the 15th Scottish infantry

13:43

division yeah which is a kind of big snarling lion and

13:45

all the rest of it hence

13:47

the name and he's here and

13:49

they're just being shelled all day yeah well not

13:51

all day you know from the afternoon into the

13:53

evening of the 29th and pretty much all day

13:55

of the 30th yeah it's just

13:58

digging around this farm hope

14:00

for the best. Yeah. And there's there's dead

14:02

everywhere. When they move into the position here

14:04

there's dead there's dead Scottish

14:07

people you know there's dead from the

14:09

15th Scottish there's dead Germans. Yeah. There's

14:11

dead cattle. Yeah. It's just an absolute

14:14

carnage site. Yeah. Yeah. And

14:16

also because it's June you know the weather's come out a

14:18

little you know the sun has come out. So there's flies.

14:21

There's flies. Yeah. It's all pretty

14:23

pretty grim. Yeah. And this whole

14:25

era which is so beautiful now

14:27

is completely popmarked with with shell

14:29

holes and carnage. I mean

14:32

I'm pretty sure if you went into that wood you'd

14:34

find all sorts of bits of metal stuff. But if

14:36

you're dug in you're dug in

14:38

with an anti-tank net. Yeah. So you've got

14:40

your six pounders your 17 pounders

14:42

up here your M10s. Yeah. And you've still got those

14:44

700 guns. You've got the 700 guns.

14:46

Sun's out. So you've now got naval spotters. Sun's

14:48

out guns out. Sun's out guns

14:50

out. Planes out. I mean this this is

14:52

the thing though. Typhoons sweeping in. Yes they've

14:55

withdrawn from their extended salient. But yes they're

14:57

also the Germans cannot resist the bait. Yeah.

14:59

Of trying to have a low view in

15:01

response. The Pavlovian response we was counter-attacked we

15:04

was pushed them back into the sea and

15:06

then you then what you end up doing

15:08

is feeding yourself into a into a defensive

15:10

system that's designed to

15:12

smash you to pieces. Yeah. And you

15:15

know if attrition ultimately is the name

15:17

of the game here in Normandy unfortunately

15:20

for everyone involved. Right. That's

15:23

what you're getting out of this. So even though they

15:25

do and it is it is one of those really

15:28

contentious decisions even now

15:30

of decisions in Normandy of

15:33

that kind of category of historiography

15:36

isn't it you know. Terrible error by

15:38

the but why wouldn't you do that. Even the

15:40

risk you're running of being cut off. Yes. And

15:42

also the opportunity to offer you that you've you

15:44

bring you're bringing the gems on. The other thing

15:46

everyone always forgets also is that the

15:49

cost of taking Hill 112 in the first place

15:51

is not high. Yeah. You know

15:53

it doesn't cost them anything. So it's effectively it's like

15:56

just imagine you didn't actually get it in the first

15:58

place. Yeah. Then you got to start again. Yeah. Yeah,

16:00

but would the cost have

16:02

been any less if you'd held on to

16:04

it? Well, that's the and I

16:06

would argue no, but also at this stage

16:08

in the you know It's

16:10

only a week after the great storm You're

16:13

not you're not in full fettle either if

16:15

you're 21st of a group or you second

16:17

army You're not you're not you haven't got

16:19

everything you need because the supply side of

16:21

stuff's been massively disrupted, right? No, absolutely So

16:24

so you aren't able to reinforce the

16:26

extent that you would have been You're able

16:28

to then commit later on in the in

16:30

the overall battle. That's the point, isn't it?

16:32

Yeah, that the resources that get then get

16:35

poured into Hill 112 are not available at

16:37

this point to Montgomery and

16:39

Dempsey No, so he they aren't able to

16:41

commit on that level Full

16:43

stop. No, so no actually it's a complete false.

16:45

Oh really Getting

16:49

to Hill 112 hasn't cost very much because it hasn't

16:51

cost much blood in the first place It's not like

16:54

you're you're you're you're spilling blood over the same ground

16:56

because you haven't spilled much blood in the first place

16:58

Yeah, not much. Yeah, it's been taken comparatively easily But

17:00

the risky run of holding on to it at this

17:02

point is too great Yeah, so it hasn't as a

17:04

small huge amount of blood yet So I kind of

17:06

think it's it's sort of I think

17:08

it was the right decision Anyway, we're going to go to Hill 1 2

17:10

1 1 2 next

17:12

so after the break We'll go back there and then we'll look

17:14

at what happens with Operation Jupiter as well Yes, and

17:17

that'll be in part two. We'll see you in a bit. See you in

17:19

a bit Welcome

17:31

back to we have ways to make you talk Normandy

17:33

Yes Normandy

17:35

Normandy Where James and

17:37

I have struggled to

17:39

the top of and our traveling

17:41

party So obviously we have a

17:44

large logistic tale and make all of this

17:46

because yes We're following the policy of big

17:48

war big. This is a big war production

17:52

We've made it to the top of Hill 1 1 1

17:54

2 and before we get into what follows what

17:56

follows. Oh, yeah, I see You're

18:00

standing up here. So

18:02

we're on the eastern end of the feature here, so at the end

18:04

of the old road. So there's a new road that's

18:07

cutting down over the hill and

18:09

you can see, well, Coors grown

18:12

since, but there's Coors. There's Coors. You

18:14

can almost reach out and touch it.

18:17

It's what? The other way you

18:19

look west and you can see

18:21

past, you know, parallel with Baya, couldn't you?

18:24

You can see all that way. And then when we look

18:26

north, seven miles away, you

18:29

can see the tree line where... Epsom

18:31

begins. Epsom begins this whole thing. The truth of the matter is,

18:33

if you hold the whole of this ridge line. So basically you

18:36

can see in front of us here, we're

18:38

looking north, you can just see the rooftops

18:40

of, you know, there's Vercon, no, there's Baron,

18:42

there's Vercon over there. And

18:45

behind that is the Odon Valley, that very

18:47

kind of narrow, suddenly steep little valley that

18:49

we were in in the start of the

18:52

first part of this episode. Once

18:55

you get out of the steep bit of the valley sides, it's

18:57

then quite a gentle climb up to the summit.

19:01

And it's not a big rounded hill. It's more like a

19:03

sort of, it's more like a ridge line really. And

19:05

if you hold the whole of this, you get 360 degrees. Now,

19:08

you can't get 360 degrees where we're standing because

19:10

there's trees in the way. But basically there's

19:12

a vantage point that you, it's

19:15

such a dominating commanding position.

19:18

And Panzamere comes up here on the 1st

19:20

of July. The Battle for Epsom

19:22

is over. Both sides have been

19:24

ground down. 12SS is

19:27

just an absolute wreck. 9thSS has

19:29

come straight in and been absolutely

19:31

hammered. Ditto TempfSS as

19:33

well, not as badly because they're

19:36

not main part of the counter

19:38

thrust. So there's now

19:40

elements of five Panzamere divisions around this area,

19:42

holding this area. And you have to say

19:44

that Dempsey's decision to, Connor's

19:46

decision to pull back to just a narrow bridge

19:49

head over the Odon rather than the big one

19:51

that's holding Hill 112 is a sensible

19:53

one. And when we're talking about the narrow bridge

19:55

head, we're talking about the

19:57

bit that you can't see from here, the bit that's hidden.

20:00

So they've got a toehold in the valley, they've got

20:02

the river, they've got the bridge, that's

20:04

secure, but they're not on this high

20:06

ground. And Panzermeir comes up here and

20:09

he just sees a scene of total

20:11

carnage and devastation. There's

20:13

pockmark with blackened hulks of

20:16

tanks dead lying absolutely

20:18

everywhere, the whole landscape pockmarked

20:20

with craters, shell holes

20:22

and so on. It's

20:24

a scene of utter destruction and yet it's

20:26

just a pause. Well that's the

20:29

whole thing about this, I mean

20:31

we'll talk about the decision

20:33

to withdraw from here, won't

20:35

we? But the truth is, after

20:38

all, this is the critical piece of high ground

20:40

food, Norman, as you've just said. It's

20:42

the critical piece of high ground for the whole

20:45

of the British-Canadian area. Which is why it's the

20:47

first proper offensive, there are no mysteries on offer

20:49

here are there? People go, why

20:51

are they doing that? It's the obvious piece of high ground that

20:53

you have to have, it's the next

20:55

phase out of the lodgement. It's

20:58

the first blinking thing they do.

21:00

I mean obviously, I think

21:03

it's quite interesting because we were talking before

21:05

about how for the Germans there is no

21:07

Operation Epsom, there is no Marley, those

21:09

things don't exist. It's just relentless

21:13

stuff being thrown at you by the

21:15

Allies. But it's blindingly

21:18

obvious. Once you're

21:20

up here. Once you're up here. In a

21:22

way that is, I mean it really is

21:24

blindingly obvious. I mean you really don't need

21:26

to understand much about military activities

21:28

and how it works to realise that this

21:30

is a significant feature. You

21:33

can see kind of forever. Well and

21:35

also by the same take-off, that means

21:38

you want to make sure you actually do

21:40

hold it when you take it, rather

21:43

than half do it or

21:45

half commit, you've got to commit completely and

21:47

properly to taking this. You can't

21:49

half bake it, which is part of the decision making

21:51

that's to come, isn't it? Yes. So

21:56

a pause is needed. It's

21:58

a pause is needed for more supplies. come

22:00

up from the British point of view they've

22:03

held onto that agra, they've held onto that

22:05

artillery. 43rd West

22:07

6th Division only comes in at the beginning of

22:10

Operation Epsom and actually it's interesting because Ivo

22:12

Thomas when they first move up on I

22:14

think it is the 28th into position

22:19

or maybe it's the 27th I can't remember

22:21

but anyway they move up in the kind

22:23

of comparatively you know on the left hand

22:25

flank of the 15th Scottish Infantry Division and

22:28

they're still within mortar range so

22:30

although they're coming up to sort of some man view

22:33

they're getting shelled and Ivo Thomas, Butcher Thomas as

22:35

he becomes known or Von Thomas, he has to

22:38

make a run for it from

22:40

his jeep because they're under attack

22:43

you know so even you know five miles away they're still

22:47

not entirely safe yeah but anyway they need

22:50

to pause they

22:52

also decide to switch emphasis and you

22:54

know it's the attack on on call yeah so

22:56

that happens yeah you know that's that's cleared when

22:58

does that start on the 7th I think it

23:00

is of July and it's finally kind

23:02

of taken on the 9th isn't it yeah and

23:05

then you've got a twin at another attack you've

23:08

got Maori II which is the kind

23:10

of wider area with the newly arrived

23:12

200 against the newly arrived 276th

23:14

Infantry Division German Infantry

23:16

Division and that's maybe kind of 10 miles

23:19

that way you know in the

23:21

30 core area so that's 50 Division again

23:23

you know who landed on Gold Beach on

23:26

D-Day so that's a Maori II is

23:28

is the attack on Hotto and all around there that's

23:30

going to be so the main assault operation Jupiter

23:33

is going to be on the 10th of July yeah

23:36

that's the 43rd West 6th Division you've had a comparative

23:38

lifetime of it in in in

23:40

Epsom but I'll kind of you know they arrived late

23:42

they were arriving in the sort of 18th 19th 20th

23:44

of well before the storm and just after the storm

23:47

yeah 56th Infantry Brigade supported

23:49

by the crocodiles right of

23:51

the buffs yeah and I think their

23:53

first major action isn't it yeah and

23:55

31st Armored Brigade yeah so they

23:58

push up they managed to get up these early

24:00

So they're coming on a kind of sort of

24:02

a on an Eastern trajectory. So there's Baron. Yeah,

24:04

there's Verson they're coming

24:06

sort of that Eastern end of

24:08

and using this Dead

24:10

ground is dead ground as cover for their

24:13

advance and actually they make pretty

24:15

good progress because the Germans haven't defended this

24:17

that bit It's this bit that they've they've

24:19

defended Well because because as we

24:22

were saying earlier you would wouldn't you I mean it's

24:24

the it's the critical piece of high ground

24:27

Yeah, so I think what we should do now is

24:29

we should go to Malto because that's where a lot

24:31

of the big fighting happens All right, we're going to

24:33

talk about Malto and the effect

24:35

of the hundred and second heavy Panzer

24:38

battalion You know

24:41

what they're using. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they

24:43

haven't they haven't come in their scodas. No,

24:45

let's put it that way And

24:48

we'll see what happens there and Malto is

24:50

another of these villages. It just gets completely

24:53

completely destroyed But it's a hell

24:55

of a spot, isn't it? Yes, and it completely announces

24:57

its importance when you get up here You can see

24:59

what the fuss and you can see why in the

25:02

months before the invasion before

25:05

D-Day Dempsey and

25:07

Monty have got their sights set on

25:09

it because they're they are you know,

25:11

because we have talked a bit about

25:13

how You know, the

25:16

emphasis is so much on making sure the landings Pay

25:19

off but this is only a

25:21

fortnight after D-Day really isn't this is rolling

25:24

Or intended to be it's it's and

25:26

intended to be yeah, then three weeks.

25:28

Yeah, exactly Nevertheless

25:30

remarkable that three weeks after landing

25:33

you're putting in core size

25:35

attacks. I mean, honestly, it's the well Yeah,

25:37

700 guns and what is it ridiculous? Yeah,

25:39

so today because we're here on the 5th

25:41

of June There's it there's actually as a

25:43

commemoration going on for the men who

25:45

fought here There's a statue of an infantryman. Yeah, there's a

25:47

churchill tank up here in a 25 pounder So

25:51

this there's a there's a fadio and this is on

25:53

the all on the old road Set

25:56

back from the main road that runs along

25:58

the crest of the road ridge line and

26:01

we've got a selection of jeeps here and

26:03

stuff and people in their

26:05

smocks and their battle dress and there's

26:08

a union flag flying

26:10

and a tricolor and

26:13

the sun's come out and the larks are up it's

26:15

rather nice isn't it? It's lovely yeah

26:17

it's not a scene of devastation now that's for

26:19

sure. I mean I often think very often what

26:22

happens in Normandy is the Germans suffer the kind of

26:24

defeats that an Allied army would go now

26:26

we're all right thanks. Maybe

26:30

we shan't bother. You know what I

26:32

mean? Certainly the commitment

26:35

the Germans show to staying here is

26:38

remarkable. I

26:41

mean also as we've said exactly

26:43

what the Allies want them to do is they want

26:45

them to commit to defending here so

26:48

they can destroy them. So it's

26:50

a peculiar paradox isn't it? What they

26:52

really really want to do is destroy

26:54

them and take the ground very quickly.

26:56

Yes of course but destroying them

26:58

is very you know is this high on the Allied agenda

27:00

is anything else and the Germans the Germans are going all

27:02

right then fine. It's a

27:04

hell of a spot isn't it? Yes incredible. It

27:07

really is. You know for those of

27:09

you who want to come to Normandy

27:11

and go inland a little bit this

27:14

really isn't very far inland and Epson

27:17

has a battle to study and to follow.

27:19

And it's only two weeks after D-Day you

27:21

like relax everyone yeah it's okay it's

27:24

a really really good one.

27:27

And where we going next Jim? We're gonna

27:29

go to Malto. The village of Malto which

27:31

I've never been to before so I'm excited

27:33

about that but it's a major feature. I

27:36

do like the idea that there's someone who hasn't been here before.

27:38

Yeah so do I. And

27:42

truth of the matter is it's another

27:44

of these villages that gets absolutely hammered

27:46

and it's and it gets hammered with

27:49

large numbers of 43rd Wessex Division

27:51

men in it. Right. And

27:53

they have a terrible time. Sorry I'm just playing D-Day because

27:55

there's a church of men. It's a church of 10 to

27:57

go. Yeah well we always need to pause for that. Right,

28:01

so here we are in Malto. Malto, yeah,

28:03

we're standing by the church, there's impressive

28:05

amounts of spang on the gates. It's completely spanged

28:07

up this church. And you can see that the

28:09

whole roof has been, it's had a new one

28:12

since 1944. Yeah. You can see

28:14

the join, can't you? I mean, the whole of that

28:16

roof has been knocked off. Yeah. Lots

28:18

of damage on the edges of it. Yeah.

28:20

The whole village is a completely new village.

28:22

There's one farmhouse just beyond the church, but

28:24

that's basically it. And this place was flattened.

28:27

I mean, absolutely flattened. And so this is

28:29

Operation Jupiter really, this is where that takes

28:31

all the punishment. This is a second attempt

28:33

to kind of, you know, we were on

28:35

Hill 12, they made the decision to pull

28:37

back from it, hadn't been very costly, and

28:39

now they're getting, they're having to take it

28:41

again. Yeah. So this is Operation Jupiter launched

28:44

on the 10th of July. And we were

28:46

saying in the, when we were on top

28:48

of Hill 112, that this

28:50

was 56th Infantry Brigade, part of the

28:52

43rd Wessex Division, supported by

28:54

the crocodiles of the buffs, their flame flowers.

28:57

And then the 31st Armoured Brigade, which is

28:59

predominantly Churchill's, pushing through. And

29:03

they take Eterville quite, quite easily.

29:05

So what they're doing is they're

29:07

going around, they're moving forward using

29:09

the dead ground around the south

29:11

and east side of Hill 112.

29:15

Yeah. So from on that summit, you can't see

29:17

that advance. Yeah. And you could really see that

29:19

dead ground from when we were up there. Yeah.

29:21

So they take Eterville, which is like a mile

29:24

to the kind of southeast of where we're standing

29:26

at the moment, and

29:28

then push on to Malto. And

29:30

it was fun. They take the village, cut round and

29:32

excise Hill 102. Yes. They're

29:35

sort of trying to get round through the back door

29:37

effectively. And that's

29:39

all fine, except they managed to take

29:42

Malto and then the 102nd Heavy

29:44

Panzer Battalion is waiting for them. And

29:47

they're Tigers. Yeah. And in

29:49

no time at all, the infantry has

29:51

gone to ground. They've been blasted to

29:54

pieces and 39 British tanks have

29:56

brewed up. Right. So so they're in a very

29:58

bad way. And this is this is already. turning

30:00

into not the triumph that they were hoping for.

30:03

Late of that same day, the 10th of

30:05

July, Ivo Thomas, the butcher Thomas, Von Thomas,

30:08

orders up the Shermans of the 4th Armoured Brigade,

30:10

and this is commanded by Michael Carver, who did

30:12

come to Field Marshal. But

30:15

at this point, it's a 27-year-old brigadier,

30:17

who's only become brigadier of the Brigade

30:19

commander of the 4th Armoured Brigade on

30:21

the 27th of June. And

30:24

Thomas says, right, you need to send your Sherman tanks up

30:26

through there. And Carver refuses, because he's

30:28

part of an independent Armoured Brigade. So he doesn't

30:30

have to say yes. He

30:33

is supporting. Yeah. Is

30:35

that not fun to command off? They are supporting.

30:38

Does that go down? It goes

30:40

down very badly. Ivo Thomas...

30:42

Thomas is a reputationist for having a... No

30:44

sense of humour whatsoever. Yeah, and being a...

30:46

A total martinet. A very hard work. A

30:50

tough bastard, yeah, exactly. But

30:53

Carver rightly recognises that if

30:55

39 Churchill tanks have just been brewed up...

30:57

The Shermans are... The Shermans have really had

31:00

it. They really had it. You

31:02

know, this is... You know, Shermans are not designed

31:04

for one-on-one tank actions with Tigers. When

31:06

the Tigers hold all the aces and they're hulled down

31:08

and they can see you coming. You

31:11

know, there's a time and a place. And

31:13

this isn't one of them. It's 100%

31:15

the right call, it has to be said, from his point of view.

31:18

Then the fourth Dorsets are told to push on

31:20

through and they get to Eterville and that's all

31:22

fine. And then

31:24

A company is sent forward to

31:27

support the operations in Malto. And

31:29

so what they're now doing is they're

31:32

now funneling companies and infantry battalions into

31:34

Malto to soak it up because

31:36

they've taken this village. They don't want to lose it

31:38

again. And they

31:41

get absolutely hammered at the edge of the

31:43

village as they're approaching Malto. They get absolutely

31:45

hammered. The whole of A company of the

31:47

fourth Dorsets gets lost. I mean, it gets

31:49

not lost physically. I mean, it gets destroyed.

31:52

Yeah. Killed in action, wounded in action, missing in

31:54

action. We're all rude to Dorsets. So, yeah. Well,

31:56

there you go. Yeah. Yeah.

32:00

right where we're standing all around the church

32:02

and frankly you can see all that evidence

32:04

can't you of the fighting. Another company of

32:06

the fourth dorces gets pushed forward casualties are

32:08

absolutely mounting. Hamptures have been in

32:10

here to start off if they've taken Malto in the first

32:12

place. They're surrounded too, they're

32:15

having a shocker. Sergeant Walter Keynes

32:17

of the fourth dorces he says it was hell

32:19

no one dared put his head above the corn.

32:21

As soon as Jerry observed the slightest movement a

32:23

long burst of fire would be the reply. So

32:25

basically they're stuck in the cornfields just at the

32:27

edge of the village and

32:30

there's no getting away from the fact that the temperature

32:32

lies an absolutely terrible day for the West East Division

32:35

and the next day is just more of the same. You

32:38

know, Nebelwerthers, mortars but

32:40

it has to be said the British

32:42

artillery is absolutely immense

32:45

and while it was the turn

32:47

of the 9th SS to get

32:50

completely ground down and the camp group of

32:52

Weidinger on the end

32:55

of Epsom this time is the turn of

32:57

the 10th SS Funsberg. For

32:59

all the punishment

33:01

they're dishing out they absolutely cop it.

33:04

They're getting flung back ten times more. I mean

33:07

the tonnage of shells which are being fired out

33:09

of them is absolutely extraordinary. So

33:11

they managed to hold on to Malto this wreck of

33:13

a village but I mean you're holding on to it

33:15

but all it is is just rubble and ruins. But

33:18

they can't actually push on

33:20

onto Hill 112. Yeah. And that's where

33:22

all the criticisms of retreating start to come in. Yeah, yeah,

33:25

yeah. It's like, oh, we haven't got rid of it in

33:27

the first place. Yeah. Well that kind of stuff. And it

33:29

is only over there.

33:31

Let's just, I mean, for

33:33

the listener you obviously you can't

33:35

see that but it was a

33:37

four minute drive from when

33:39

we were at the top of Hill 112. It's

33:42

a stone's throw from here really. Yes. So you

33:44

can see why if you were stuck here and

33:47

things were going very badly you'd be going, well,

33:49

weren't we up there the

33:52

other day? But if you think about it, if

33:54

you think about the beginning of Operation Jupiter, you

33:56

know, the second attempt to take Hill 112, you've

33:58

got this little kind of you

34:00

know, you've got this little kind of chalk ice of a

34:04

salient over the River Oden, a little sort

34:06

of rectangle. And what

34:09

you're getting is you're getting a

34:11

creeping amount of ground that is

34:13

going all around the kind of

34:15

eastern and western sides of Hill

34:18

112. They've still got the

34:20

summit, but you've still taken quite a bit of

34:22

extra ground and you're holding this ground. So that means,

34:24

you know, once you've got that ground, that means

34:26

you can move up more guns, you can move up

34:28

more mortars, you can dig in, you know,

34:31

you can do that grinding thing that

34:33

they're doing so well. And you can

34:35

just attract the Germans who are not

34:37

getting the resupplies and not getting the

34:40

kind of replacement troops that the British

34:42

are getting. So it's a

34:44

terrible two days of battle for the 43rd

34:46

Wessex Division. And

34:48

yet they have gained ground. You know, they are

34:51

doing what they need to do, which is grinding

34:53

down the enemy. This is this is still, you

34:56

know, this is we're not obviously not at the

34:58

breakout when it's actually the imagination. They haven't quite

35:01

taken the summer, but it's not all it's not

35:03

from a big overview point of view. It's

35:06

not total disaster because they

35:08

are retreating. When

35:10

we're told about, you know, the controversy

35:13

around these decisions, is this something

35:16

obviously Montgomery would never have will

35:18

never have said we did

35:20

the wrong thing there. No, I can't

35:22

imagine that happening. Dempsey, we don't really know

35:24

what Dempsey thinks. Well, what level is because

35:27

it is this armchair history or is

35:29

this historian criticism or is this? Yeah, this

35:31

is armchair criticism. I

35:33

mean, at the time, you know, but morale in the Wessex

35:36

Division is taking quite a big hit. You know, they've been

35:38

here for three weeks and, you know, they're absolutely decimated. And

35:41

this place, as we were talking about when we were

35:43

on the top of Hill 112, it's just, you know,

35:45

it's a it's a horror story because it's

35:48

very hard to get the dead. Yeah, because you lift

35:50

up your head, you know, the machine gun bursts and

35:52

mortar all the rest of it. So they're tending to

35:54

stay out there. And it's going to, you know, there's

35:57

quite a lot of hot days in July. There's still

35:59

the kind of mizzly weather. and the mixed weather and

36:01

rain, but there's also lots of heat as well. And

36:03

the whole place just stinks. It

36:06

stinks of dead Germans, it stinks of

36:08

dead British, and it stinks of dead

36:10

animals. It's just enormous, bloated

36:13

cow corpses. Yeah, with their feet sticking up

36:15

in the air and all the rest of

36:18

it. It's

36:21

so hard, I think, to transport yourself because we're

36:23

looking at it now and you can see it's

36:26

a new village and you can see the spang on the

36:28

church, but it's a beautiful summer day and all

36:31

is right with the world. It signs

36:33

for the European elections up, so all

36:35

is calm and normal and peaceful for

36:37

a friend. And you can have free

36:39

democratic elections rather than the swastika flying over you, etc.

36:42

etc. So it is hard to transport yourself really, but what

36:44

you can do is you can get the land. You

36:46

can actually see how it all fits together geographically

36:48

and from a terrain point of view. And

36:51

that helps you, I think, when you're trying to piece

36:53

together what's going on here. Every

36:57

hit you take on the

36:59

Germans, they're suffering every

37:01

bit as badly, if not worse, and

37:04

they haven't got the replacements and you are

37:06

encroaching on that territory. So you are going

37:08

to take Hill 112 at some point. It's

37:11

just when. Right, where are we going

37:13

next, Jim? Well, we're going round the back of Hill 112

37:16

and we'll finish off the story of Operation

37:18

Exercise, the worst named aggressive

37:20

operation of the entire Normandy campaign. Well, indeed, no

37:22

one was here. Neither of us could remember it.

37:24

It's just not stuck in your head at all.

37:26

No, it's rubbish. Veritable. That's

37:29

her name. Blackcock. Yeah, that's her

37:31

name. That's an operational name. Blackcock, too. It's quite

37:33

good to be fair. It is pretty true. It's

37:36

all right. Anyway, let's go. All right.

37:39

Right, so Jim, here we are. Actually, we're in the

37:41

back of the Citroen because it's too... The wind's got

37:43

up. The wind's got up. It's too windy to talk

37:45

into, even with these pop shields on and everything. This

37:48

car reveals itself in stages. I've sat in the front

37:50

and I was sitting in the back. I

37:52

hardly ever sit in the back. Very, very special. Well, you

37:54

know, because you're normally gripping the wheel like a maniac. The

37:56

only time I sit in the back is when I'm waiting

37:58

for the AA, man. And

38:04

what does he greet you with a

38:07

weary nod? Yeah, a lot of teeth

38:09

sucking. What was it this time? I

38:12

actually ran out. Corboretta gun.

38:14

Alternator. But

38:18

more importantly, we're not just in a car park,

38:20

we are at the scene in the very lush

38:23

countryside, large, gigantic arable meadows, but

38:26

we're cut up with tree lines,

38:29

raised hedgerows. Raised hedgerows and sunken roads. The

38:31

old sunken road round here too, isn't there?

38:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the reason we're here

38:35

is because this is the main axis of

38:37

advance for the 9th SS who

38:40

finally launched their counter-attack on the 29th for

38:42

Vaux, has to be said to

38:44

a massively delayed start. So they're arriving into

38:47

position, so they've reached the kind of

38:49

Normandy front on the 26th. They're

38:51

getting into position here, 10th SS,

38:54

kind of, you know, just to the south of Hill 112.

38:57

Yeah. But

38:59

9th SS are coming round the back, and

39:01

this is why Dempsey and

39:04

O'Connor decided to pull back

39:06

from the summit of 112 because

39:09

they know perfectly well that they're going to

39:11

be surrounded. They've got this big, long salient,

39:13

and that makes the base of the salient

39:15

very, very vulnerable. Yeah, yeah. You know, what

39:17

they don't want to do is be snipped

39:19

out either side at the base of the

39:21

salient, and then have the rest, you know,

39:23

out of the top of the salient completely

39:25

surrounded and destroyed. I mean, that's an absolute

39:27

catastrophe. So that's why they make the very

39:29

sensible decision to retreat back and

39:32

create that chalk ice shape just

39:34

on the northern side of the, southern side rather,

39:36

of the River Odon, and then

39:39

tell everybody to dig in

39:41

and hold fast. Yeah. So

39:44

some of the early units in

39:46

Operation Epsom, such as the

39:48

six King's Own Scottish boarders and

39:52

others, they're covering the whole salience. There's a

39:54

bit like, you know, the salient around, you

39:56

know, in Arnhem, for example. And

39:58

they know it's coming. Yeah. And sure enough it does come,

40:00

but it doesn't come when the 9th SS is supposed to

40:02

come. They're supposed to attack first thing in the morning at

40:05

9, 7 a.m. But

40:07

they're just simply not ready. And the Nebelwerther

40:10

Regiment, which is going to support them, hasn't

40:12

arrived. It's not in position yet. So then

40:14

it gets postponed to 9 a.m. But

40:17

that still isn't, they're still not ready then. So it's

40:19

not until the afternoon that they finally attack. By

40:22

which point the British have had even more time

40:24

to dig in. Yep. You know, that's another hours

40:26

in which you're kind of deepening

40:28

the foxhole you're in and all

40:30

the rest of it and bringing up mortars and

40:32

bringing up more ammunition and getting your artillery

40:35

to zero, potential attack lines, blah,

40:37

blah, blah. And what strength are

40:39

the Germans attacking in? Well, both

40:42

divisions are 17,000 strong and

40:44

they've left Russia on the

40:46

12th of June. Right. So,

40:49

you know, that's pretty quick going. That is

40:51

a big difference. But also

40:53

shows the sort of vacuum at

40:55

the heart of German strategy, which is like that

40:58

you would, they're under enough pressure on the

41:00

Eastern Front and they know another offensive must

41:02

be coming on the Eastern

41:04

Front, but they denude it to fight here. It

41:07

just shows that they've no options, actually.

41:09

Yeah. And given that the Allied strategy

41:11

is to get them here so they

41:13

can destroy them. Again, it's

41:15

all grist at the Allied mill, isn't it?

41:17

Yeah. And they come down this road with

41:19

17 Pamphers and I think all of them

41:21

get knocked out. Really? Yeah. By what? By

41:23

anti-tank guns. So, 17 pounds, six

41:25

pounds, M10s, whatever. Yeah. Right.

41:28

Yeah. Absolute rain of artillery fire.

41:30

Yeah. You know, because this

41:33

is the Allied way of war,

41:35

personified. You know, this is how they

41:37

do it. You know, you wait, you

41:39

poke the hornet's nest, wait for the

41:41

Germans to do their counter-attack. When they

41:43

do their counter-attack, they're exposed. It's them

41:45

suddenly having to advance across open ground.

41:47

And we've got more guns than they

41:49

have. Yeah. You know, so they're going

41:51

to lose. Yeah. And the

41:53

Germans can't resist it. And they can't resist

41:56

it. This is how they've worked out how

41:58

to defeat the Germans. You probe, you wait

42:00

for them to recover. attack and then you

42:02

wham them with all the firepower you possibly

42:04

can and by the 29th of June that

42:07

includes airpower as well. Rocket firing typhoons coming

42:09

over, it's an absolute carnage. So they come

42:11

down this road and another

42:13

road run there. Is it done in a day? Well

42:15

it's more of the same

42:17

on the 30th but you're never

42:20

as effective as when you first

42:22

strike are you? Yeah. So they get

42:24

absolutely nowhere and by the 30th, by

42:26

nightfall on the 30th it's all over. Yeah.

42:29

And Dempsey and O'Connor have reasons to feel

42:31

pretty pleased actually because okay so they haven't

42:33

got the breakthrough but they have done exactly

42:36

what they needed to do which is with

42:38

their under strength operational attack which

42:40

is what Epsom is. It's not you know because

42:42

of the great storm and because they're a core

42:44

down. After Epsom there

42:47

is no conceivable chance at

42:49

all that the Germans are

42:51

going to mount a coordinated counterattack that's going to

42:53

be decisive. So from this point on

42:55

I mean I think it's probably not been in

42:58

doubt before that but it is absolutely categorically not

43:00

in doubt what the outcome of the Normandy campaign

43:02

is going to be. The Allies

43:04

are going to win. How long it's going to take?

43:06

What form it's going to take? That's still up for

43:08

grabs but they are going to win. The form it's

43:10

going to take is more of the same. This kind

43:13

of fighting where

43:16

you go to Germans into doing something daft

43:18

basically. But you know I mean from this

43:20

point here you know we are less than

43:22

a mile from Sche and Le Oot Bosk

43:24

which is a kind of little hamlet on

43:26

the edge of Sche. And

43:28

you know the Germans are

43:30

hammering away with everything they've got

43:33

and shells and mortars are dropping

43:35

throwing up huge great mountains of

43:37

earth and smoke and vehicles are

43:39

on fire you know British vehicles but German

43:42

vehicles as well. And one of the big

43:44

problems they have is that it's less the

43:46

tanks that get hit although the 17 Pampers

43:49

do get knocked out eventually by the day's end.

43:52

It's more in the initial advance. It's the

43:54

soft skins. It's the half tracks. It's the

43:56

trucks carrying the motorized infantry that get hit.

43:59

And so there is a lack of coordination between the

44:01

infantry and the armor. It's the same problem that the

44:03

British have been having in Normandy so

44:05

far and it's exactly the

44:07

same for the Germans. Yeah, okay. So

44:10

on to where now? So we're now

44:12

just going to go and look at another point where

44:15

the fighting took place and have a look

44:17

at where the six King's Own

44:19

Scottish borders. That's Robert Wolkum and where

44:21

they were. Right, so

44:23

here we are. We've come round the

44:26

back at the southern

44:29

end. If Hillwell, we have a kidney bean.

44:32

We've traversed the full kidney, right?

44:35

Yeah. We've limbed it from side

44:37

to side and then to it. So Malto is over the other

44:39

side completely. Yes, directly

44:41

opposite from where we are at the moment.

44:43

Yeah, and we've come round the base of it

44:45

to the south. Yes, we can see Hill 112

44:47

there. You can just see the flag and a

44:50

glint of some vehicles up there where they're doing that

44:53

little commemoration. You can see the wood, which

44:55

was the headquarters of 8th DLI when they

44:57

first came up on the 28th of June. And

45:01

the ridge which was then overtaken

45:03

over by the 10th SS, Frunsberg.

45:07

And after we left Malto, we went to Vue,

45:09

which is where the 10th SS had their command

45:12

post. And we then went on to

45:14

Esqué and Le Bournes-Répo. And

45:17

these are all villages that were wrecked

45:20

entirely during the battle. This whole scene

45:22

that we're looking at, as I said

45:24

before, was a

45:26

pitiful sight. A charnel house. A charnel

45:29

house, exactly. But this

45:31

is a good place to kind of wrap up this

45:33

battle because again, this is a very good vantage point.

45:36

We're on the road

45:38

heading back down from Le Bournes-Répo back

45:41

down into Torville

45:44

and Granville over the

45:46

River Ode and the crossing point over the River Ode. And I

45:48

think there's a traction of one coming towards

45:50

us, which is quite exciting. Another one.

45:52

So we're parked up in ours and there's another one

45:54

coming. Sorry if I had to show you that windscreen

45:56

anywhere. Just tooting. We're

45:59

a fraternity. We're a bandit. Well,

46:02

it's a wheat field, there are poppies. Yes,

46:04

it's all very, it's actually rather moving, isn't

46:06

it? There's a breeze sort of brushing against

46:09

the rapidly ripening corn.

46:11

It's a very peaceful scene. But

46:13

actually, Hill 112 is finally taken

46:16

on the 22nd of July, Operation

46:19

Exercise. And this is

46:21

where you get the sight, you

46:23

see how the British are learning the

46:25

lessons, new techniques of

46:28

how to get armour and infantry,

46:30

and indeed, artillery as well, to

46:32

sort of cooperate properly. The

46:34

difference is, although the fighting has continued

46:36

after the 11th

46:38

of July, after the sort of petering out of Jupiter, there's

46:40

been a sort of scrappy, attritional fighting

46:43

over here ever since, and Malto has

46:45

exchanged hands a number of times since.

46:48

Despite that, what they've done is they've taken

46:50

the time, they've done proper reconnaissance, they've worked

46:52

things out, they've softened up, they've got a

46:54

really good fire plan. When

46:56

the two battalions of Wilches go in

46:59

with the armour, everyone knows what they're

47:01

doing, they've now kind of formed relationships,

47:03

there's no surprises anymore, they know

47:05

what they've got to do. And

47:07

on top of that, of course, the 10th SS are

47:09

completely, you know, they're completely whacked. You

47:12

know, they're on their last legs.

47:14

You know, the 45rd Wessex Division

47:16

is constantly getting replacements, Lempharma Division

47:18

is constantly getting replacements, 4th Armour

47:20

Brigade is getting replacements, 10th

47:22

SS is getting, you know, precisely zip. I

47:26

mean, literally no replacements whatsoever. And

47:28

they're being pressured at every corner. You

47:30

know, and this is the 22nd of July, this

47:33

is three days before Cobra, where the breakouts are

47:35

going to happen. And this

47:37

is this attritional war, this is this

47:39

attritional battle, there is this huge pressure

47:42

to get on with it, as we've discussed in the

47:44

podcast series that we did on D-Day. But you

47:47

see this, you know, they finally get Hill 122, 112

47:49

rather, because A, they've got better

47:54

and B, because the Germans have got

47:56

nothing left in the tank. On the

47:58

22nd, they get the inevitable counter-tank. 400

48:01

prisoners are taken, you know,

48:03

and it's game over. And finally this

48:05

is taken for the last time. But

48:08

what a battle, what a fight. That's

48:10

extraordinary and all the more remarkable because

48:12

it's the first thing the Allies, the

48:14

British set out to do. It's

48:17

their first operation and it's the operation

48:19

that actually speaks of the character of

48:22

how the whole, the whole overlord battle

48:25

plays out. What your priorities

48:27

are, how you're learning on the hoof, how

48:30

you're one way or another you're wearing the enemy

48:32

down, you take territory or not, you're

48:34

wearing the enemy down and it's sort of in

48:37

a way, it's the, if there's one battle that

48:39

encapsulates how overlord runs,

48:41

it's this one, isn't it, right? Yeah, but

48:43

I mean just look at it here. I

48:45

mean, we've got the dead ground. Okay, just

48:47

to the north of us here under the

48:50

telegraph wire, the ground

48:52

drops. You're safe there. You're not completely safe, but

48:54

you can't be seen. It's dead ground. But

48:57

look at this to get to there, you know, to

48:59

get to this village, you know, anyone in that village,

49:01

you can see you coming. You know, there's no difference

49:03

really. The hedgerow in front of us there, that's the

49:05

Risso de Sabb all

49:07

over again, isn't it? Yeah, you know, that's Hans

49:10

Siegel all over again and you

49:12

look at that stretch going up to

49:14

Hill 112. I mean, how do you

49:17

advance over that? Well, you're

49:19

big open ground, anyone behind those treelines. You shell the

49:21

bejesus out of it, don't you? Of course, that's how

49:23

you do it. And then

49:26

you shell the bejesus out of it again. You

49:28

take lots of hits and you know, he who's got

49:30

the most at the end is the winner. But you

49:32

can see why this is attritional and you can see

49:34

why this takes, you know, this is a three and

49:37

a half week battle effectively if you include Epsom as

49:39

well. But it

49:41

raises some questions. The Wessex Division

49:43

could never be described as the

49:46

Dorsets or could never be

49:48

described as ideologically motivated soldiers,

49:50

could they? Dying a ditch guys,

49:52

but they win. Yep. Whereas the

49:55

people they're fighting can be described as

49:57

that. Yep. And they lose. State

50:00

of preparedness personal preparedness to die in a

50:02

ditch may not be relevant Necessarily

50:05

to how well you're gonna do I mean

50:08

that company of doors. It's a wiped out in in

50:10

Malto How do the doors it's picked themselves up after

50:12

that and carry on because I know

50:14

that the SS guys if a company's wiped out They

50:16

pick themselves up carry on because it's the defense of

50:18

the fatherland the world is out to get us You

50:21

know, I mean, I can't think it I can't think any of it It's

50:24

the trench safety that the world thank thank goodness. We've done something

50:26

about the Treaty of SI Right,

50:28

we're just yeah cited as a German

50:30

grievance. Yes, but you know what I

50:32

mean? They have that at least Yeah,

50:35

what are the lads from Bournemouth and? Pool

50:38

well Walter Keynes who we coated earlier on

50:40

he's from Blamford Forum, you know, he's from

50:42

Blamford in Dorset Yeah, just on the run

50:44

from you know, Trump rushed in airfield. Yeah

50:47

You know, he's just a local Dorset lad. What's he doing?

50:51

Well, he's and he's spending most of his

50:53

time feeling absolutely terrified. He's in signals, but

50:55

he yeah, you know It's it's it's the

50:57

scale of shelling is just it's

50:59

just you you you simply can't picture it You

51:01

can't imagine it. It's two tests, you know, and

51:03

every time shells come over about coming the whole

51:06

ground trembles You know,

51:08

you think he's got his name on it. Then the Coughany

51:10

is just appalling the smoke

51:13

the fatigue, you know, you're just

51:15

just endlessly exhausted I'm really glad

51:17

we've done this man. I'm

51:19

really really good. I think it's such

51:22

a hinge battle, isn't it? Well under

51:24

paradigm, it's the it's the paradigmatic battle

51:26

of the British and Canadian end of

51:28

overlord, isn't it? Is the truth? Yeah.

51:30

Yeah. Yeah a really really important one.

51:32

Well worth coming and having a look

51:34

absolutely on that night Yes, lunch. Yeah,

51:36

go on. It's a lunch. Thanks everyone

51:38

for listening. If you have enjoyed

51:40

this There's I don't know. I'm

51:42

not I'm not King County more There's about 800 other

51:44

episodes of us talking about this out there And

51:47

if you want to see them ordered in

51:49

subjects I'd go to our Apple podcast channel

51:52

and subscribe to that and for the part

51:54

price of I think a half a point

51:56

of London Shandy at least Way

51:59

things are going going and you've got

52:01

the whole laid out before you so times

52:03

we talked about Normandy before times we talked

52:05

about everything else in this endlessly gigantic

52:08

subject in the Second World War and we'll see you

52:10

I'm sure in a couple of weeks time at We

52:12

Have Waste Fest which takes place a 19th to 21st

52:14

July so smack

52:17

in the middle of the time we're talking about 80

52:19

years after the time we're talking about isn't it Jim yeah

52:22

and we'll see you there we have

52:24

waste fest.co.uk buy your tickets for

52:27

the best Second World War festival on

52:29

earth in the entire world and thanks

52:31

for listening we're going for some a

52:33

pair probably and some beer and

52:35

some borserk no we're not having borserk, we're not

52:37

going to come to France and eat borserk anyway

52:40

thanks for listening Cheerio farewell